People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:01] <cybrNaut> does the debian mail server strip off the "received:" headers, or do those get exposed? I could send reports direct but i wouldn't want my IP address to be tied to anything
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3 [00:01:08] <oxek> cybrNaut: doesn't strip
4 [00:01:24] <oxek> you can click to see all the headers of all the bug report emails
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6 [00:01:38] <oxek> and link people's nicknames, emails and IP addresses together
7 [00:01:51] <PMT> cybrNaut: I'm surprised you're reporting a bug, isn't that an information leak for your adversaries?
8 [00:02:19] <cybrNaut> PMT: i'm always willing to submit anonymous bug reports
9 [00:03:22] <cybrNaut> and mixmaster served that purpose well for debian bug reports back when it worked
10 [00:03:44] <cybrNaut> ,v mixmaster
11 [00:03:45] <judd> Package: mixmaster on amd64 -- jessie: 3.0.0-7; stretch: 3.0.0-8.1
12 [00:03:53] <cybrNaut> it's a dead pkg now
13 [00:04:02] <oxek> cybrNaut: the mailserver refuses to talk to many IP addresses now
14 [00:04:48] <oxek> maybe easier if you send a bugreport by copypasting the reportbug messages into a regular email message sent from your regular email address
15 [00:05:17] <sney> might as well just invite the hackers in at that point ;)
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98 [02:04:17] <misgender> de
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100 [02:12:18] <PMT> ef
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108 [02:17:46] <hans_> on 19 january 2016 i made a paste with the never expire option, and now it's 404, why? replaced-url
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111 [02:19:38] <sney> I guess "never" was not actually eternal
112 [02:19:54] <sney> you could email formorer for a clarification, or the logic is probably in the source somewhere replaced-url
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114 [02:21:02] <hans_> that guy never responds unfortunately,
115 [02:21:33] <hans_> i have 5x spam-filter-false-positive-bug-reports ranging from 2015 to 2020, he has never responded to any of them
116 [02:22:25] <hans_> back in 2015 the spamfilter even said "if this was a false positive, please contact the admin", but never responded (since 2015-05-20)
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140 [02:28:08] <hans_> i'll try anyway though, not like it hurts
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143 [02:29:10] <sney> there's nothing #debian can really do about that regardless. *.debian.net means it's not an official service, just a debian member's solo project
144 [02:29:10] <jelly> next time save it with archive.org right away, eh? :-)
145 [02:29:39] <jelly> formorer hangs out on OFTC, maybe he needs help maintaining that stuff
146 [02:30:10] <themill> it's not intended to be an permanent archive, stuff gets dropped periodically
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155 [02:31:09] <hans_> maybe rename "never" to "5 years" or something then
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157 [02:32:00] <jelly> replaced-url
158 [02:32:00] <hans_> i think that url worked like a year ago, now that its over 5 years it no longer works, is it possible that everything older than 5 years was trashed?
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165 [02:34:06] <jelly> hans_, there have been heavy spam attacks last year, adding hundreds of thousands of entries, it's possible there was some heavy-handed ad-hoc deletery
166 [02:34:45] <hans_> ouch, ok
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168 [02:35:25] <hans_> was it like a deliberate attack on paste.debian?
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170 [02:37:01] <jelly> it looked more automated than intentional to me but who knows
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172 [02:37:37] <hans_> like maybe some "foo | pastebinit" script(s?) accidentally ran amok?
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529 [10:15:05] <killall> hello
530 [10:15:35] <killall> how can i get kernel >= 5.10.1 on ,my pc
531 [10:16:50] <diogenes_> ,v linux-image
532 [10:16:52] <judd> No package named 'linux-image' was found in amd64.
533 [10:18:16] <diogenes_> ,v linux-image-amd64
534 [10:18:18] <judd> Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster-security: 4.19+105+deb10u9; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u11; buster-backports: 5.10.24-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.10.28-1; sid: 5.10.38-1
535 [10:19:10] <diogenes_> killall, 5.10.24-1 is available via backports.
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537 [10:19:58] <killall> diogenes i have backport enabled but no luck
538 [10:20:21] <ZenWalker> killall: what features do you like in new kernel?
539 [10:20:39] <themill> killall: I'd suggest asking in #debian on irc.oftc.net — that's the bigger channel and you're more likely to get help there
540 [10:20:48] <killall> ZenWalker, my sound card to work :p
541 [10:21:11] <diogenes_> killall, then maybe try liquorix or xanmod.
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545 [10:24:02] <_wrksx> ping
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551 [10:33:38] <killall> thank you all
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562 [10:46:36] <paladox> See you on libera! Freenode taking control of channels now replaced-url
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621 [12:00:55] <queip> jelly: themill: more and more channels are now being stolen by new freenode staff. it's imo the time to jump this sinking corpoevil-ship
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624 [12:01:58] <mspe> yup
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633 [12:07:53] <TheBigK> i asked jelly and he said hes going to abbonden the ship when most are migrated. i moved to oftc for that matter where the user numbers are higher than on freenodes
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635 [12:08:35] <TheBigK> fuck it ... i left most channels on freenode anyways... im outi :D
636 [12:08:42] <TheBigK> sorry for bad language :(
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644 [12:20:50] <cybergenik> hello
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647 [12:23:08] <enkrypt> well... I'm leaving freenode. going to OFTC and libera.chat. I advise you all to do the same. bye!
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652 [12:26:46] <jelly> this channel is still actively managed, I don't think there's reason for staff to jump in. Even if we decide to point users to the official channel more actively, or to point out our active presence on irc.libera.chat
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654 [12:27:09] * jelly is all about activities
655 [12:27:22] <oxek> jelly: this channel might get redirected to ##debian though
656 [12:27:36] <oxek> nevemind, I misread the policy
657 [12:28:00] <jelly> oxek, that would be against my explicit wishes as someone with +o access while I'm here
658 [12:28:18] <oxek> jelly: yes, my bad, I missed the part about this channel still being active
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660 [12:29:03] <jelly> I hope the network staff still cares about leaving channel ops do their thing if they're still here
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662 [12:30:14] <oxek> is the channel founder still active? There are very few people with +s flag on the access list, so we can't even change the URL to https instead of http
663 [12:30:30] <oxek> I mean the URL on-join, it says replaced-url
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668 [12:36:31] <jelly> oxek, Ganneff is somewhat alive on OFTC but not really on freenode or libera these days. I poked about that on-join message for YEARS, because the channel pivoted from "discussion" to mostly "support"
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670 [12:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 812
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672 [12:40:10] <oxek> jelly: would probably be advisable to get them to join to freenode and transfer +F to you or someone else, just so that we can prove we have an active founder or user with full privileges in here
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674 [12:40:37] <jelly> it's being worked on.
675 [12:40:41] <oxek> ok, good to know
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706 [13:24:56] <ZenWalker> 12:26 <@jelly> this channel is still actively managed, I don't think there's reason for staff to jump in. Even if we decide to point users to the official channel more actively, or to point out our active presence on irc.libera.chat
707 [13:25:11] <ZenWalker> jelly: maybe do you know why #debian-es is closed here?
708 [13:25:17] <ZenWalker> 13:24 [freenode] -!- Cannot join to channel #debian-es (You must be invited)
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739 [13:56:19] <jelly> ZenWalker, no, lemme see
740 [13:57:02] <petn-randall> I'm getting forwarded to ##unavailable, so it seems freenode hijacked it.
741 [13:58:22] <jelly> doesn't look like it, Ganneff is still founder and a recent change
742 [13:59:28] <jelly> ZenWalker, there's a #debian-es on OFTC with about 30 people, and one on libera with just 7 people which includes you me and another op
743 [14:00:06] <jelly> that redirection seems legit.
744 [14:00:24] <oxek> is the likely outcome that only #debian will remain, and all the #debian-* are not necessary to exist on freenode?
745 [14:00:37] *** Parts: LeoTh3o (~th3o@replaced-ip ) ("-")
746 [14:01:10] <jelly> most local community channels were leftovers from the 2006 oftc move, just like this one
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749 [14:02:27] <jelly> if OFTC #debian ever surpasses freenode #debian in size, I'd say we're finally finalizing that move :)
750 [14:02:55] <elios> great
751 [14:03:19] <jelly> It's kind of sad if that happens not by people joining OFTC, but by people leaving freenode
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754 [14:04:04] <elios> i think i was told from day one to join debian on oftc
755 [14:04:21] <jelly> that's the official place with all the developers
756 [14:04:38] <elios> must have been more than five years ago
757 [14:04:43] <jelly> !oftc move
758 [14:04:57] <jelly> ahem.
759 [14:05:13] <elios> so, completely unrelated to how things are now.
760 [14:06:31] <oxek> dpkg is gone
761 [14:06:35] <jelly> > irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
762 [14:06:36] <jelly> .html
763 [14:06:51] <elios> jelly: what's all about the fuzz debian talking about becoming enterprise linux?
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765 [14:07:15] <jelly> elios, no idea. I've been using Debian in the enterprise since 1996.
766 [14:07:44] <elios> no, becoming enterprise linux, like redhat as i understand.
767 [14:08:06] <jelly> not sure what that would involve
768 [14:08:27] <jelly> paid support? You can get that from freexian.com and other places
769 [14:08:48] <jelly> 5 years LTS? Hardware support?
770 [14:08:58] <elios> i was the one asking?
771 [14:09:06] <elios> but ok
772 [14:09:28] <jelly> well if you can find a reference for that fuzz, let me know
773 [14:09:37] <elios> sure, give me a second.
774 [14:10:26] <elios> replaced-url
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776 [14:11:34] <petn-randall> elios: I don't see any "fuss" or "fuzz" there. Freexian has given commercial support for Debian since ... I don't know, at least 10 years now.
777 [14:12:00] <petn-randall> elios: Freexian is paying developers to support Debian releases when the official support has been dropped.
778 [14:13:18] <jelly> elios, Hertzog and his freexian.com company is coordinating the LTS effort as well. Since there's a good number of LTS sponsors now, more than it's needed to pay every debian developer doing LTS and ELTS, so he's actively looking for new ways to help companies use Debian more easily.
779 [14:13:43] <jelly> basically LTS is a huge success
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781 [14:14:27] <mzajc> greetings! I'm curious whether or not the debian channel on libera chat is endorsed and/or managed by the staffers of this one
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785 [14:15:11] <petn-randall> mzajc: Yes, it is, though you should join the official #debian channel on OFTC instead.
786 [14:15:14] <petn-randall> !oftc move
787 [14:15:24] <mzajc> I see, I'm already on there
788 [14:15:27] <mzajc> thanks for the info!
789 [14:15:32] <jelly> petn-randall, I had to manually copy/paste that bit :-)
790 [14:15:41] <mzajc> (rip dpkg)
791 [14:15:42] <Lope> hey guys, my tmpfs is mounted by /etc/fstab like this: "tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,noatime,nosuid 0 0", and yet `free -h` shows I have 107G RAM free, but df -h shows I only have 63G available in /tmp? how do I get more space available in my /tmp tmpfs?
792 [14:15:52] <Lope> Is this a numa node issue or something? Ryzen 5950x 128G RAM on X470 Mobo.
793 [14:15:58] <petn-randall> Lope: please stop crossposting.
794 [14:16:00] <jelly> mzajc, she lives. Fell off freenode for some reason
795 [14:16:14] <mzajc> Lope: size=<number>g
796 [14:16:17] <Lope> petn-randall, problem is it seems half the channel is on Libera, other half is on freenode
797 [14:16:31] <Lope> mzajc, surely not specifying the size means it's unlimited?
798 [14:16:39] <petn-randall> Lope: Most people are on oftc, where all the official Debian channels are.
799 [14:16:50] <jelly> Lope, tmpfs size default is 50% RAM unless specified otherwise
800 [14:16:51] <mzajc> I'm not sure, you'd have to consult the docs for that
801 [14:16:57] <mzajc> nevermind then
802 [14:16:59] <Lope> jelly, oh shit. thanks!!!
803 [14:17:13] <Lope> jelly, can I say infinity or whatever?
804 [14:17:26] <jelly> you can remount with more, and no
805 [14:17:28] <Lope> what happens if I specify 200G even though I've got 128G?
806 [14:17:39] <jelly> tmpfs is backed by ram+swap
807 [14:17:41] <Lope> So I have to specify the exact amount
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809 [14:17:51] <Lope> Oh shit, tmpfs is backed by swap???
810 [14:17:55] <Lope> that complicates things
811 [14:17:56] <jelly> yes
812 [14:17:59] <Lope> Can I tell it not to use swap?
813 [14:18:03] <jelly> use ramfs
814 [14:18:13] <Lope> ramfs, ok will DDG that
815 [14:18:26] <jelly> but then those pages CANNOT leave RAM even under pressure
816 [14:18:37] <Lope> jelly, I actually want a RAM based block device
817 [14:18:46] <Lope> jelly, that's fine
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819 [14:19:05] <jelly> Lope, consider looking at zram instead
820 [14:19:07] <Lope> I was originally going to use zram, but then decided against it cos zram implies compression, and I don't want compression
821 [14:19:22] <Lope> so I thought a loop mount on a tmpfs file would be better
822 [14:19:53] <Lope> I'm going to put compressed data on it, so don't want to waste CPU doing compression on the RAM block device
823 [14:19:53] <jelly> that's silly, if you need a block device, use a block device
824 [14:19:58] <petn-randall> Lope: Compression and RAM is 10^5 times faster than dumping the data to disk. And even on disk compression is faster.
825 [14:20:07] <Lope> jelly, I need a RAM block device
826 [14:20:24] <Lope> petn-randall, the data is already compressed though
827 [14:20:26] <jelly> Lope, what's your actual goal?
828 [14:20:35] <Lope> Testing filesystems
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830 [14:20:53] <jelly> hmm
831 [14:20:53] <petn-randall> Lope: How do you know?
832 [14:21:04] <Lope> I suppose I could use the fastest compression offered by zram
833 [14:21:10] <Lope> But even ZRAM will use swap.
834 [14:21:12] <jelly> there was an old ramdisk driver.
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836 [14:24:25] <Lope> jelly, I see that. docs last updated in 2004. Says limited to 16MiB lolz
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846 [14:32:20] <jelly> 16MiB ought to be enough for everyone
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848 [14:34:23] <PMT> Okay BillG. :P
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853 [14:44:29] <Sark> jelly: It's fine... just need a lot of swap.
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856 [14:46:51] <jelly> now, if they said "I want to mine chia in RAM" I might have even tried to help... or not
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1035 [17:35:05] * abrotman looks around ...
1036 [17:35:50] <jelly> !qotd0
1037 [17:35:54] <jelly> oh right
1038 [17:36:02] <jelly> I'll have to amuse myself
1039 [17:36:14] <Zppix> Lol
1040 [17:36:15] <EdePopede> the bot ran away already?
1041 [17:36:20] <abrotman> did we intentionally lose dpkg ?
1042 [17:36:32] <abrotman> debhelper: hi!
1043 [17:36:32] <themill> nope, just fell off the network
1044 [17:36:38] <jelly> not intentionally
1045 [17:36:42] <EdePopede> sure?
1046 [17:36:45] <abrotman> well, okay
1047 [17:36:46] <PMT> Its quit message seemed like it wasn't just a disconnect?
1048 [17:36:50] <EdePopede> bots have feelings, you know
1049 [17:36:51] <jelly> were there any... TLS problems
1050 [17:37:01] <themill> it does that often enough
1051 [17:37:02] <jelly> PMT, dpkg restarts on a daily basis
1052 [17:37:12] <PMT> oic
1053 [17:37:14] <jelly> it's supposed to come back
1054 [17:37:21] <abrotman> you can't trust Perl these days :)
1055 [17:37:28] <jelly> > <cogito> ntfs-3g was installed with Wheezy, so that means i lost 400GB of data for nothing <cogito> or am i missing something? <Supaplex> just 400GB
1056 [17:37:38] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1057 [17:37:59] <PMT> how old is that quote
1058 [17:39:14] <oxek> should the "Reminder that irc.debian.org points to irc.oftc.net" be removed from the /topic?
1059 [17:40:15] <PMT> Because it's risky?
1060 [17:40:41] <oxek> perhaps
1061 [17:41:26] <themill> If that were the case, then drawing attention to it is obviously the best option.
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1063 [17:42:45] *** Quits: steven (~steven@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1064 [17:43:03] <oxek> themill: the staff are a bit on edge whenever they see anything that could be interpreted as channel owners "toying" with them
1065 [17:43:28] <themill> they need to grow up
1066 [17:44:07] <oxek> I don't know what the best course of action would be here. "#debian on freenode is an active channel dedicated to debian user support | Main channels exist on OFTC | ... "
1067 [17:44:33] <themill> Have I mentioned you're not helping?
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1069 [17:44:56] <oxek> sorry, I misinterpreted what you wrote
1070 [17:45:11] <oxek> I don't do well with detecting irony/sarcasm/jokes
1071 [17:45:18] <abrotman> We hadn't noticed ...
1072 [17:45:29] <abrotman> (Oh, that was sarcasm)
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1074 [17:45:35] <oxek> yeah, I got that one :)
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1081 [17:49:59] * stew waves
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1086 [17:57:54] * l0rd_hex poops in the corner
1087 [17:58:09] <l0rd_hex> whelp, cya all at the new club house
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1102 [18:17:56] <no_gravity> Can I make the current terminal window jump to the front via some command inside the terminal?
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1106 [18:21:36] <jelly> no_gravity, depends on your window manager and its keybindings. Is there a menu opened when you Alt-Space?
1107 [18:22:09] <jelly> wait you said command, not keypress
1108 [18:22:47] <no_gravity> Yes, command.
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1110 [18:22:57] <no_gravity> When I end a task, my taskmanager should check every minute or so that it is at the top. So I don't forget to tell it what I do next.
1111 [18:23:04] <no_gravity> That is what I want to implement
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1116 [18:24:34] <somiaj> no_gravity: although often best done with the wm, wmctrl is a command line tool you can use to set hints and such that most window managers will honor
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1118 [18:25:12] <no_gravity> somiaj: Cool, I got wmctrl. How can I make it push the current window to the front?
1119 [18:25:32] <somiaj> no_gravity: now depending on your wm, there is also often a stays-on-top style setting so certain windows never get put at the bottom
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1121 [18:25:44] <somiaj> no_gravity: what window manager/de do you use, often times it is better implmeneted at that level
1122 [18:26:23] <no_gravity> somiaj: But how can I make my taskmanager tell my window manager that this window should stay on top?
1123 [18:26:28] <no_gravity> somiaj: I use Mate.
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1125 [18:27:22] <somiaj> no_gravity: maybe -a, "Switch to the desktop containing the window <WIN>, raise the window, and give it focus."
1126 [18:27:51] <somiaj> I don't use wmctrl since fvwm has more than enough tools for me, I was just mentiong that there is that tool that sometimes works and is window manger indepdnent.
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1130 [18:28:17] <no_gravity> Holy fuck, this works: wmctrl -a <windowname>
1131 [18:28:29] <no_gravity> somiaj: You are god! \o/
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1138 [18:35:55] <somiaj> no_gravity: no god like powers here, just know how to read man pages.
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1141 [18:36:22] <no_gravity> somiaj: In this day and age, if you read man pages, you are god.
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1144 [18:38:04] <PMT> no_gravity: you may wish to explore deification
1145 [18:38:14] <PMT> then you too can be god
1146 [18:38:39] <no_gravity> Ok
1147 [18:38:48] <no_gravity> Gotta go now. Cu later!
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1385 [20:59:56] <NetTerminalGene> where do #debian people reside now? oftc?
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1387 [21:00:14] <sney> yes, since 2006
1388 [21:00:39] <NetTerminalGene> i mean after freenode conflict?
1389 [21:00:48] <sney> there is a #debian on libera too
1390 [21:01:00] <sney> and there are still 762 users here, as you can see
1391 [21:01:04] <NetTerminalGene> but i ask where did people decide to go
1392 [21:01:22] <NetTerminalGene> it should be 1200
1393 [21:01:24] <sney> that depends on the person. are you dying without a specific user's company?
1394 [21:01:40] <NetTerminalGene> sney: what is your purpose?
1395 [21:01:43] <jhutchins> NetTerminalGene: No universal consent.
1396 [21:02:07] <NetTerminalGene> ok
1397 [21:02:48] *** Parts: JPT (~jpt@replaced-ip ) ("See you on the other side")
1398 [21:03:14] <jhutchins> NetTerminalGene: I believe that all three networks will now have the channels.
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1400 [21:04:50] <immibis[fnIsDead> more channels need that +l bot
1401 [21:04:53] <jhutchins> THe freenode staff are going to pull some rude shenanigans to preserve the channels. They've already taken ownership (on at least some if not all), and they've announced a policy that they will essentially confiscate empty channels.
1402 [21:05:40] <jhutchins> There's enough documentation on the net that points to freenode as the authoritative support, so new people will keep joinint.
1403 [21:06:02] <jhutchins> Some people just won't get the message, some people won't care.
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1406 [21:07:15] <monsterco> I have a file that has space in name
1407 [21:07:24] <EdePopede> "quote" it
1408 [21:07:26] <monsterco> when I try to cp I get No such file or directory
1409 [21:07:29] <monsterco> ah thanks :)
1410 [21:07:30] <monsterco> you are fast
1411 [21:07:34] <EdePopede> which you should ALWAYS do btw
1412 [21:07:37] *** Parts: immibis[fnIsDead (~immibis@replaced-ip ) ("HexChat")
1413 [21:07:46] <EdePopede> happens sometimes ;)
1414 [21:08:10] <monsterco> why should always?
1415 [21:08:18] <monsterco> and I think fast people are just fast :)
1416 [21:08:20] <jhutchins> monsterco: you can also "escape" characters with a backslash \
1417 [21:08:33] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: debian has been on OFTC for 15+ years, you should join us there, because not only do you get #debian, you get #debian-foo wich provides a lot more specialized channels, and even debian devlopers visit OFTC
1418 [21:08:37] *** Joins: nicoz (~nicoz@replaced-ip )
1419 [21:08:39] <jhutchins> monsterco: You can usually tab complete the filename too.
1420 [21:08:45] <EdePopede> monsterco: replaced-url
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1422 [21:09:19] <somiaj> Yea you can also escape the space, name
1423 [21:09:23] <monsterco> tab didn't work
1424 [21:09:25] <somiaj> arg name\ with\ space.mp3
1425 [21:09:47] <somiaj> tab does, but if it matches multiple things you have to give it more info.
1426 [21:09:49] <monsterco> what is with all these new mediums and news of people moving from freenode?
1427 [21:09:52] <NetTerminalGene> somiaj: last time i was in there nowhere near the freenode's #debian as active
1428 [21:09:58] <NetTerminalGene> actually no one talked lol
1429 [21:10:01] <EdePopede> tabs don't work sometimes, when bash prepends \ in front of some characters
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1431 [21:10:40] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: It is a support channel, unless there is a question no one talks (which is better than here IMO). But at least in my last many years there, when a question is asked, it is often answered in a reasonable amount of time.
1432 [21:11:24] <NetTerminalGene> i don't like that kind of channel
1433 [21:11:26] <EdePopede> monsterco, this is a starter replaced-url
1434 [21:12:01] <somiaj> well #debian is a support channel, there are other channels if you want a more socil chanle.
1435 [21:12:02] <NetTerminalGene> a channel should be chit-chatty
1436 [21:12:07] <jhutchins> monsterco: We could discuss it in #debian-offtopic
1437 [21:12:29] <somiaj> NetTerminalGene: support channels should stick on topic as much as opposible, that is what #debian-offtopic is for.
1438 [21:12:42] <EdePopede> NetTerminalGene: i hope you don't dial the emergency number when you're bored
1439 [21:13:01] <NetTerminalGene> -_-
1440 [21:13:32] <EdePopede> yes, i know
1441 [21:13:36] <EdePopede> YOU HATE ME!
1442 [21:14:02] <monsterco> I sense money involved somewhere
1443 [21:14:09] <jhutchins> somiaj: I get a bit chatty sometimes, but I support that policy.
1444 [21:14:27] * NetTerminalGene hugs EdePopede
1445 [21:14:34] <NetTerminalGene> you're sexy
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1447 [21:14:52] <somiaj> jhutchins: I do too, but as long as there is some suprot related chat going on when I switch over to a channel it is fine
1448 [21:14:56] <EdePopede> arrr.... but maybe we should take it to #debian-darkroom?
1449 [21:14:59] <somiaj> I just find I would rather chat about debian than other stuff
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1452 [21:15:42] <somiaj> monsterco: also a difference of ideas. I don't entiernlly dissagree with the direction freenode was wanting to take, but disagree with their approach
1453 [21:16:01] <EdePopede> even support doesn't always have to be like swiss bureaucracy.
1454 [21:16:30] <PMT> What's debian-darkroom?
1455 [21:16:42] <monsterco> so many people don't know what IRC is
1456 [21:16:46] <monsterco> including programmers
1457 [21:16:50] <monsterco> younger generation
1458 [21:16:55] <monsterco> but know discord
1459 [21:17:03] <monsterco> will IRC live?
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1461 [21:17:13] <PMT> It's managed so far.
1462 [21:17:28] <monsterco> until this generation retires maybe
1463 [21:18:06] <PMT> With how retirement ages work, that's some time in the future.
1464 [21:18:16] <EdePopede> PMT: debian's OT channel for what i guess is called adultery... and which probably doesn't exist on any of the networks ;)
1465 [21:18:38] <PMT> "probably"
1466 [21:18:47] <EdePopede> it's irc after all
1467 [21:19:15] <PMT> I know what you were trying to convey, but I don't think adultery is the word for what you meant.
1468 [21:19:34] <PMT> Unless it's a far more specific "channel" than I think you meant.
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1470 [21:20:06] <somiaj> the problem with offtopic channels is often we send people there not for being offtopic but because we aren't in that channel
1471 [21:20:11] <monsterco> so who do you think will win this? or both libra and freenode will co exit?
1472 [21:21:00] <somiaj> monsterco: only time will tell, freenode has the name and history, so that might be enough for it to survive
1473 [21:21:10] <EdePopede> PMT i didn't mean photograph development if this is what you meant ;)
1474 [21:21:40] <somiaj> Though libera isn't going to just vanish, a lot of projects have moved over there, so I suspect both will be around for a while
1475 [21:21:41] <PMT> EdePopede: I assumed you meant more general "adult" activities than infidelity; but since it's all for a joke, it's possible either wya.
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1478 [21:22:42] <PMT> Who knows, maybe the Libera staff will demonsrate monstrous tendencies too and everyone will run to yet another network.
1479 [21:23:12] <EdePopede> PMT: not sure about this, it's the old freenode staff after all ;)
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1481 [21:23:32] <monsterco> I have always wondered what the active people in all IRC channels get from being there. Is it a direct profit or just older generation still liking IRC? I like IRC and many of the channels and find them helpful but some are very contentious making me believe they are sales only tactics.
1482 [21:23:53] <somiaj> it is the old staff upset about changes happening due to new staff. At least it is nice that debian has peacefully lived on OFTC for quite some time, I suggest you all come join us there.
1483 [21:24:28] <somiaj> replaced-url
1484 [21:24:42] <monsterco> you should ask the IRC client program to package libra in them like freenode is
1485 [21:24:58] <imMute> monsterco: what?
1486 [21:25:06] <somiaj> monsterco: Some of it is a different attiude of what help people think is best vs what help people want (and then a bunch of fools trying to be the helpful bofh, which is very hard to pull off and often fails)
1487 [21:25:24] <EdePopede> somiaj: is there an audiobook of the story? ;)
1488 [21:25:44] <somiaj> monsterco: debian irc clients default to irc.debian.org, so sounds fine to me
1489 [21:26:46] <sney> hexchat added libera to the github master a few days ago, it'll be in whatever the next release is
1490 [21:26:49] <PMT> monsterco: irssi already did.
1491 [21:26:54] <EdePopede> btw, how long may it take now until hexchat will have a servlist_.conf including the L-Space?
1492 [21:27:22] <imMute> IRC clients have built in lists of networks??
1493 [21:27:46] <monsterco> I meant windows ones like hexchat etc
1494 [21:27:51] <EdePopede> hexchat creates some files as needed, includes the network list at the 1st run.
1495 [21:28:07] <NetTerminalGene> freenode's owner is crown prince of korea. it means he can hang us
1496 [21:28:10] <monsterco> this fight is interesting to see
1497 [21:28:23] <monsterco> why was he interested to buy?
1498 [21:28:47] <monsterco> is there a revenue source to all this?
1499 [21:29:36] <EdePopede> *shrug*
1500 [21:29:57] <EdePopede> facebook bought whatsapp and they still don't make any money with it
1501 [21:29:58] <NetTerminalGene> he is the owner of private internet access VPN
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1503 [21:30:46] <EdePopede> maybe he hopes to sell bouncers for $$$$$$$ while the network costs him only $$
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1505 [21:32:56] <NetTerminalGene> andrew lee is a benevolent leader
1506 [21:33:06] <NetTerminalGene> :p
1507 [21:33:25] <somiaj> Maybe he just wanted to support freenode and has his own ideas of how an open irc network should work, some of the ideas might have actually been good for freenode, implicationi was terrible
1508 [21:34:10] <somiaj> I'm all for more decerntalization and having a governing body instead of a more centeralized leader which is the model freenode was using.
1509 [21:34:17] <EdePopede> everyone likes freedom, but not if you force it with guns on them ;)
1510 [21:34:21] <NetTerminalGene> i won't trust a businessman
1511 [21:34:44] <somiaj> but anyways, lets at least stick to debian support, maybe #freenode has been unumted again, I'm sure this topic has been talked to death in the last week
1512 [21:35:28] <EdePopede> somiaj: "was"? look at the title mentioned at the bottom of the last 2 posts on freenode.net ;)
1513 [21:36:03] <NetTerminalGene> i don't see ratrace and graychat here. who will makes things difficult when i ask question?
1514 [21:37:08] <EdePopede> this question really deserves a reaction
1515 [21:37:11] <EdePopede> *plonk*
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1518 [21:39:55] <jhutchins> ,v calibre
1519 [21:39:56] <judd> Package: calibre on amd64 -- jessie: 2.5.0+dfsg-1; stretch: 2.75.1+dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 3.39.1+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster: 3.39.1+dfsg-3; buster-backports: 3.48.0+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.12.0+dfsg-1; sid: 5.16.1+dfsg-1; experimental: 5.18.0+dfsg-1
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1521 [21:40:38] <imMute> somiaj: I've only really used FreeNode in the last decade, but don't network wide policies and enforcement make more sense than "each server defines their own rules" ?
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1524 [21:42:01] <oxek> NetTerminalGene: take it to -offtopic, or at least fact check what you say.
1525 [21:42:39] <somiaj> imMute: that isn't mutually exlusive from a governing body and decenterilzation.
1526 [21:43:19] <EdePopede> ah, btw. i have to collect some sketches of connectors on my different devices. i don't want to install some CAD tool, but something like PAINT.EXE would maybe be underpar. maybe somethig similar to the debtags|dot team? wouldn't mind writing some small files similar to YAML/JSON and then have SVGs created from them. ideas?
1527 [21:43:20] <somiaj> but I should try to steer this channel back to debian support.
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1529 [21:43:49] <imMute> EdePopede: Inkscape?
1530 [21:43:56] <somiaj> EdePopede: xfig is you want oldschool
1531 [21:44:16] <EdePopede> ah both sound good. and i did use both in the past already.
1532 [21:44:38] <PMT> EdePopede: I'd also look for public, freely available sketches of connectors - they might already exist.
1533 [21:44:51] <PMT> (unless doing them yourself is part of the task.)
1534 [21:45:02] <EdePopede> oldskool. actually i was thinking of setting up a VM on the other machine when i find the time with just oldschool stuff. pre-gtk if you remember ;)
1535 [21:45:19] <somiaj> EdePopede: run fvwm + NsCDE
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1538 [21:45:32] <somiaj> give you that old CDE feel but have the power of a more modern WM
1539 [21:45:58] <EdePopede> PMT: not the connector themselves, i need an overview what i have available and something helping me with planning the wiring.
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1541 [21:46:39] <EdePopede> had fvwm for some time, before KDE was useable enough for me :>
1542 [21:46:40] <imMute> EdePopede: I used OpenOffice Draw for data flow diagrams before. that's a little like wiring diagrams.
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1546 [21:48:15] <EdePopede> would be my first usage of it, it's just occupying disk space so far :>
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1558 [21:57:19] <somiaj> EdePopede: I tried kde since see so many people using it, I think I used it for about 20mins before I was tired of it, all DEs just are too big
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1562 [21:59:12] <neilthereildeil> i read freenode got taken over. whats going to happen to this chat room?
1563 [21:59:35] <sney> !oftc move
1564 [21:59:35] <bouba> you can change for a smaller one.
1565 [21:59:39] <sney> hm, no bot
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1567 [22:00:14] <sney> neilthereildeil: debian's official irc channels are on OFTC and have been since 2006. but this channel will likely stay as long as freenode is online, unless freenode makes a different decision for us.
1568 [22:00:35] <EdePopede> somiaj:it was during 2/3 and maybe 1.x for some time. then to xfce and still on it. but a wm+geeqie+hotkeys+scripts should do the job.
1569 [22:00:45] <sney> there is a #debian on libera too, if you want to go there. all 3 have many of the same volunteers to help you.
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1571 [22:01:54] <neilthereildeil> sney: is oftc just a different IRC network?
1572 [22:02:12] <sney> neilthereildeil: yes. irc.oftc.net.
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1575 [22:03:05] <neilthereildeil> ok thx
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1577 [22:06:47] <jelly> neilthereildeil, irc.debian.org is the same network as irc.oftc.net btw
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1592 [22:16:19] <hramrach> EdePopede: there is dia as well
1593 [22:16:41] <EdePopede> thanks, right. i'll check it.
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1596 [22:17:24] <hramrach> problem is that general purpose programs like draw of inkscape have many features you don't need that may get in the way. Special purpose program like dia ay be missing a small feature or two that make it completely useless
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1605 [22:20:44] <EdePopede> and yED. which i think i discovered in the context of mind maps
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1722 [23:08:21] <KNERD> Yeah, I am not sure how someone who does not own FreeNode can sell it
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1724 [23:08:30] <KNERD> That is the story I read anyway
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1738 [23:13:42] <abrotman> probably a better place than a Debian support channel to discuss that
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1756 [23:38:39] <rockyiii> debian 11 =🤩️
1757 [23:39:25] *** Joins: bmlzootown (~bmlzootow@replaced-ip )
1758 [23:40:32] *** Quits: JohnML (~JohnML@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1759 [23:40:38] *** Joins: ov3rmind (~over0-07@replaced-ip )
1760 [23:41:16] *** Joins: bmlzootown_ (~bmlzootow@replaced-ip )
1761 [23:42:09] *** Parts: zykotick9 (~zykotick9@replaced-ip ) ()
1762 [23:42:26] <rockyiii> replaced-url
1763 [23:43:27] *** Quits: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1764 [23:43:56] *** Joins: JohnML (~JohnML@replaced-ip )
1765 [23:45:15] <rockyiii> I use the firefox web browser installed from replaced-url
1766 [23:47:42] *** Quits: ov3rmind (~over0-07@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1767 [23:47:55] <rockyiii> if install firefox from flatpak not install app from GNOME Shell Integration Extension
1768 [23:48:09] *** Joins: ov3rmind (~over0-07@replaced-ip )
1769 [23:48:54] <rockyiii> if install firefox from apt-get no problem
1770 [23:49:11] <sney> flatpak is intended as a container to keep the application somewhat isolated from the rest of the system.
1771 [23:49:18] <sney> thus, sometimes things don't integrate quite right.
1772 [23:49:31] *** Joins: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip )
1773 [23:49:44] <sney> there may be some documentation or a faq from flathub explaining how to get around this.
1774 [23:50:41] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1775 [23:51:11] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1776 [23:51:39] <rockyiii> ok replaced-url
1777 [23:52:07] *** Joins: markmarkmark (~mark@replaced-ip )
1778 [23:52:12] *** Joins: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip )
1779 [23:52:19] *** Quits: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1780 [23:53:42] *** Joins: winy (~vince@replaced-ip )
1781 [23:55:33] <rockyiii> or problem in GNOME Shell integration for Chrome
1782 [23:58:23] *** Joins: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip )
1783 [23:59:03] *** Quits: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1784 [23:59:37] *** BillyZane2 is now known as BillyZane
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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