9[00:06:13] <somiaj> busternube: at some level this is up to you as the admin to decide where to mount your filesystems. If it was me, I would use /etc/fstab and control the point these things are mounted.
10[00:06:59] <somiaj> automounters will often pick their own place to mount things, either works, so the choice is up to you (though I think I missed the whole kvm layer, are these mounts from a virtual machine?)
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14[00:08:33] <ryouma> jhutchins: i hated apple. i kept trying to make it work like debian. it is actually debian's attempts to get facny and hide the guts in the initramfs that caused some of the complexity that broke stuff. all i want is for debian to have better error messages and better accessibility and better "you are in the initramfs/grub/whategvver. here are a rfew things you can try" type instructions at the lowest level. i
15[00:08:33] <ryouma> am not asking for grep to do this. jst the lowest level stuff where y7oure computer is broken and you do not hafve your debian tools that you use everyday to fix things or find out things so it needs to give you hints there. i have no intention of going to apple. or mint/ubuntu for that matter.
17[00:11:42] <ryouma> i think "debian's complex. you should go to apple if you don't like it" is not really what you are saying but a lot of folk say that, unlike you, instead of saying "oh right you could add a little hint there or reduce the complexity there or so". it's sort of a status quo bias or a "i learned this unneeded complexity in addition to the needed complexity so you will too as a rite of passage" kind of thing. i know
18[00:11:42] <ryouma> you are not doing this, but i wonder if some of it can be improved.
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20[00:14:38] <ryouma> (there is unneded complexity at the shell prompt level also, but one is better equipped to investigatge and fix)
21[00:14:46] <ryouma> (and ask qs)
22[00:15:08] <ryouma> (i refer to e.g. 2 different mechanisms for configuing packges and so o n)
23[00:16:02] <ryouma> (i'm ok with leaving htat cruft as it is because you are at least not sitting watching a blinking cursor or a prompt you onoly use every few years)
24[00:16:16] *** wigums is now known as gidd|es
25[00:16:25] <busternube> i cant see the drive in /dev/disk/by-label
26[00:16:49] <busternube> the only folder its not shown in
27[00:17:17] <busternube> needs to be labled?
28[00:18:11] <ryouma> i had an issue once where one of those was not populated but others were
31[00:22:12] <somiaj> ryouma: What are you doing that breaks your boot so often? Debian stable gets few upgrades, and i haven't had them break my boot in the last few releases.
32[00:22:31] <ryouma> it can only takes one to knock you out for a long time
33[00:22:47] <ryouma> and only one is enough to make you wnt to never have that general problem again
34[00:22:54] <somiaj> Yes, initramfs is another layer, but this layer helps debian be able to provide a slim kernel with modules that can boot on tons of hardware, if you really don't want initramfs, you'll have to build your own kernel images and include all drivers inside the kernel.
36[00:23:21] <ryouma> i didn't say i did not want the initramfs layer. i said that the complexity of it caused bugs in it.
37[00:23:34] <somiaj> That is what the install/live rescue images are for, just keep one of those around. As for having instructions on what to do, that is a bit vague because there are lots of things that can cause a system to not boot, so no one set of instructions will fix every possbilitiy.
38[00:23:36] <ryouma> i will be neutral on whether there shold be an initramfs
40[00:24:05] <somiaj> But as said, if you want to add that to the initramfs, this is not something most people thik they need, so you'll have to add it yourself, as you are the first person I've seen request such a feature.
42[00:24:42] *** Quits: Deyaa (uid190709@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
43[00:24:46] <ryouma> one problem is, if you need very large fonts and certain color and intensity requirements and various other needs, those recue things are in practice hostile to you. others don't notice this.
45[00:25:47] <ryouma> the boot sequence varies btween unfixable unreadably tiny fonts and various sizes of fonts for example. most people don't cahnge those so they don't notice that there are places where they cannot be fixed (or not obvious)(
46[00:26:03] <somiaj> I will give you that, there are improvements on accessiblity the installer could have, but each relase gets better.
47[00:26:59] *** Quits: LucaTM (~LucaTM@replaced-ip) (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)
48[00:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1026
49[00:28:37] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
67[00:54:56] <NikopolSohru> Since when is Linux not 'friendly' jhutchins?
68[00:55:22] <somiaj> though here I think it is more we need to make debian more accessible, though I think the way in which ryouma wants to go about it is not correct.
69[00:55:52] <somiaj> The debian install media and resuce console could use a bit more accessible features, but these are there and constantally getting better.
70[00:57:44] <NikopolSohru> There are all kinds of flavors of Linux, all with their own aims..
74[01:03:26] *** Quits: D4rk2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
75[01:04:47] <ryouma> you seem to think i have said so as part of your campaign. please check your sources (the scrollback) and tell me where i fall into the category you are resistant to --- 15:53 <jhutchins> ryouma: I'm very resistant to a rather persistent meme of "We should dumb down linux to make it more friendly".
81[01:11:06] <ryouma> i was not asking for a little icon of a bomb saying your macintosh is broken
82[01:11:24] <qrpnxz> hmm, i can't think of any debian usability problems atm. Could you share some?
83[01:12:01] <ryouma> what do you mean by usability?
84[01:12:26] <qrpnxz> i'm reading here that Debian is somehow not friendly.
85[01:12:56] <ryouma> the word friendly seems to be a loaded one so i will retract it so as not to set anybody off on a tirade
86[01:13:06] <ryouma> i am going to give up here as i don't think i am doing any good nor are the responses meeting my needs. i began by asking if i could put my notes into low level.
87[01:14:36] <ryouma> just print some text i supply, so that i have a reminder
243[03:45:28] <Bert_2> Hi, I'm having trouble with a migration from mysql to mariadb, for some reason apparmor keeps from time to time throwing a tantrum about run/systemd/notify. Now the apparmor usr.sbin.mysqld is empty as supplied by mariadb, on top of that I've disabled it, reloaded and restarted apparmor a million times, and still it refuses to cooperate, the process remains listed in enforcement mode in aa_status. Does anyo
244[03:45:34] <Bert_2> ne have any idea what I can do to fix this?
245[03:45:43] *** Quits: Z4CHe (uid496478@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
357[07:59:53] *** Quits: quackgyver (uid11872@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
358[08:00:50] <nicoz> the other day i updated and now apt reports me this error
359[08:00:53] <somiaj> security should be bullseye/updates
360[08:02:45] <nicoz> but the beauty is that I have not touched the source.list file, is it possible that it is modified by itself?
361[08:02:56] <somiaj> nope
362[08:03:13] <somiaj> Unsure why you have that typo there, but it is an issue
363[08:03:20] <somiaj> !bullseye sources.list
364[08:03:20] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Bullseye" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
365[08:03:52] <somiaj> Oh wait, my bad....according that factoid you are correct. Lets see your error
366[08:04:03] <somiaj> (I didn't realize security had changed, it use to be /)
367[08:04:10] <somiaj> !buster sources.list
368[08:04:10] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
369[08:04:26] <jmcnaught> nicoz: on lines 8 and 9 where you have "bullseye-updates" it should be "bullseye-security"
370[08:04:51] <somiaj> oh that is the change, I'm blind, thanks jmcnaught, I hadn't realized that change.
371[08:05:34] <somiaj> good to know, going to mean the upgrade to bullseye is going to be slighty more complicated because of that (at least for us old timmers who didn't notice it changed)
372[08:06:24] <nicoz> ah ok, it's a only error of name?
373[08:06:55] <somiaj> nicoz: yea, your sources.list didn't use the correct name for the secuirty sources, which will cause an error.
391[08:25:25] <wyoung> Nichi: Either, I use apt-get out of habbit
392[08:25:59] <Nichi> they are different programs inside, right?
393[08:26:45] <somiaj> !apt
394[08:26:45] <dpkg> Advanced Packaging Tool (APT) is a package management system used by Debian and its derivatives. APT is a C++ library of functions that are used by several command line programs for dealing with packages, notably apt-get, apt-cache, and aptitude and, from Debian 8 "Jessie" onwards, apt. See also <aptitude> <apt-get>, <apt-cache>, <apt myths>.
397[08:27:20] <somiaj> Nichi: apt-get got to a point that it could not be changed (was used in to many scripts), so apt was created for more an evolving user interface. In general apt should be used by the user and apt-get by scripts
398[08:27:24] <somiaj> though you can use either
399[08:28:18] <somiaj> basically apt provides nicer color output, progress bars, and various additions that could not be added to apt-get without breaking numerous things. Also apt combines apt-get and apt-cache into a single binary.
400[08:28:51] <somiaj> though yes, I too still use apt-get out of habbit, though am very slowly getting more use to just using apt when running things from a termail.
402[08:30:52] <TheBigK> i switched to apt ... just because of the mentioned advantages ... but i still use dist-upgrade instead of --list upgradable ... its weird to type for me ;D
403[08:32:02] <somiaj> thouse do different things, do you mean dist-upgrade vs full-upgrade?
404[08:32:14] *** Quits: kristijonas (~kristijon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
406[08:33:33] <Nichi> dist-upgrade was exactly what got me confused, because it wasnt mentioned at all in the man page for apt, onyl in the apt-get man page, although "apt dist-upgrade" works
407[08:33:40] <somiaj> TheBigK: note one difference between apt and apt-get is upgrade, apt-get upgrade won't install new packages, but apt upgrade will, so for stable upgrades, apt upgrade should be sufficent (Even for new kernels) and dist-upgrade is no longer needed outside of release changes.
408[08:34:00] *** Quits: kristijonas (~kristijon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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424[08:44:34] <shtrb> Nichi, does that mean you have the odd clients that can ruin your day all of a sudden by throwing a tantrum at you or others who just failing to give their output ?
466[09:34:21] <furycd001> HI Guys.. Over the weekend I've installed & been setting up debian-10 with xfce on a thinkpad E470. I've just installed nvidia drivers & been trying to get rid of screen tearing. Whenever I try to luanch nvidia-settings I receive the following error >> ERROR: Unable to load info from any available system
467[09:34:26] <furycd001> Could someone please help me thanks....
522[10:20:51] <effgee> So, strange issue, can't get ip forwarding to stay off. The default is supposed to be off but everytime I reboot its on. I even specifically set it to 0 on /etc/sysctl.conf and it still turns back on every reboot. Nothing in my interfaces is turning it on either. Where else should I look?
557[11:15:06] <willow> i'm having issues with bluetooth on buster. i want to add sid source to try its version
558[11:15:29] <ksk> !frankendebian
559[11:15:29] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
560[11:15:32] <TheBigK> willow: thats a terrible idea
568[11:18:04] <willow> it seems to be a bug with bluez that has been fixed in more recent release. it doesn't recognize the a2dp audio sink profile of device on reconnect. replaced-url
569[11:18:24] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
571[11:19:51] <willow> one time i had the a2dp sink working on the headphones. then every time after that it cannot be used. i've restarted pulseaudio, restarted bluetooth, removed and re-paired the device multiple times.
615[12:01:11] <willow> for docker do you build your own or just use pre-made servers? i need postfix/dovecot/mysql and nginx
616[12:01:37] <AquaL1te> interesing stuff about hardening services with systemd: replaced-url
617[12:02:00] <TheBigK> depends on which special cases u wanna tackle... both is certainly possible... but probably preferablle to use prebuilt images since u dont want to invent the wheel more than ocne
620[12:03:31] <willow> what do you use to manage/run the instances?
621[12:03:35] <TheBigK> now i have a question... is there a way to permanently change a systemd service user? i tried with /etc/systemd/$service.service.d/$service.conf .. but that didnt overwrite it
622[12:04:54] <ratrace> TheBigK: What did you specify in there? Did you daemon-reload?
623[12:04:57] <willow> TheBigK: what tool do you use to manage or run the docker instances?
624[12:05:17] <TheBigK> ratrace: yes i did
625[12:05:28] <ratrace> TheBigK: by the way, the dir is /etc/systemd/system/some.service.d/....cof
626[12:05:30] <ratrace> *conf
627[12:05:34] <TheBigK> willow: it depends... usually just plain docker-compose
628[12:05:49] <ratrace> you're missing the /system/ dir inside the /etc/systemd/ in the path above, dunno if it's typo here or on your system too
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644[12:11:58] <willow> shtrb: yes i see bug 848130 from 2016
645[12:12:01] <TheBigK> ratrace: ok ur the person... :D
646[12:13:15] <shtrb> willow, that a gdm pre login bug
647[12:13:23] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
648[12:13:26] <TheBigK> the problem is gone now regarding permission... it must be something about security in the kernel regarding inotify... but even the kernel documentation didnt reveal that problem.. and my C isnt good enough to actually read that source code :D
653[12:15:34] <TheBigK> yes ... definitely working... that was bothering me for so long... i still kinda hate that that service is running as root... but i dont think theres a different solution for that
654[12:15:50] <ratrace> what are you talking about?
655[12:16:09] <TheBigK> minidlna is running as default as a seperate user
656[12:16:30] <TheBigK> to keep its database fresh it uses inotify for the media dirs
672[12:20:27] <ratrace> dunno, I tried googling if inotify is covered with a special cap or seccomp, but nothing found. can you pastebin your service unit, mybe something else is botherig it?
675[12:21:35] <TheBigK> thats the default one... i just overwrote now the user
676[12:22:30] <TheBigK> and the group... that was just for testing purpose...
677[12:22:36] <TheBigK> i did change that back now
678[12:22:58] <ratrace> well, instead of altering the service, I'd rather try put the "minidlna" user into the group the files belong to, and make sure the dirs have g+rx
679[12:23:09] <ratrace> (and files g+r)
680[12:23:11] <TheBigK> thats the case
681[12:23:57] <TheBigK> minidlna user is in a share group
682[12:24:00] <ratrace> and if you run the command in ExecStart manually (mind the env vars and substitution), as "minidlna" user, does it work?
683[12:24:11] <TheBigK> and the share group is set for everything i add in that dir
684[12:24:27] <ratrace> TheBigK: and the "share" group has r+x access to _ALL_ path elements to the dirs?
695[12:26:40] <ratrace> so the idea is to try and run the ExecStart command, minding the substitutions, as that user to see if it works like that. that way you isolate the issue from systemd service context. if it works, then the service context is putting some restrictions you need to figure out and remove
696[12:27:11] <TheBigK> hmm...
697[12:27:42] <ratrace> I'd start by stracing systemctl start minidlna.service . now that's gonna produce a megaton of output, so perhapse use -o to store it into a file for later analysis. and you'll need -f to trace the children processes too, which is what you need here
707[12:29:12] <ratrace> I think the service should work too, I'm not aware of any restrictions systemd would put, since there are no namespacing and seccomp options in the service unit
708[12:29:45] <ratrace> TheBigK: then again, I'm not quite sure how inotify works. Does it require _write_ permission if the IN_MASK_CREATE or IN_MASK_ADD are in the monitored mask?
713[12:30:44] <TheBigK> i donwloaded kernel sources... nad checked the inotify docs... but the explanation is quite short... its just a general explanation
738[12:36:20] <ratrace> TheBigK: but back to previous question. if you run the ExecStart command, minding the substitutions, manually... does it work?
739[12:36:33] <TheBigK> lets find out :)
740[12:36:36] <ratrace> (as minidlna user)
741[12:36:46] <TheBigK> ofc... i understand where ur going with this :)
742[12:37:02] <TheBigK> i should use smaller files... brrr :D
743[12:38:21] <wyre> hi guys, I cannot user usermod as root in a fresh install
744[12:38:35] <wyre> why is this? (I'm trying to add my new user to sudo group)
745[12:38:55] <wyre> I'm root but when I perform `usermod -aG sudo user` I have a 'usermod command not found'
746[12:39:03] <ratrace> !buster su
747[12:39:03] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See replaced-url
748[12:40:11] <ratrace> TheBigK: another possibility, but I don't know what the error message would be exactly ... if you have more files than default kernel inotify watches
749[12:40:36] <ratrace> default is 8k
750[12:40:47] <ratrace> the fs.inotify.max_user_watches sysctl
751[12:41:50] <wyre> ty ratrace 😀
752[12:41:51] <TheBigK> ratrace: i raised it. and still no change
753[12:41:59] <TheBigK> with manually running the daemon
754[12:42:11] <ratrace> TheBigK: wait, running manually it still results with no permissions?
755[12:42:21] <TheBigK> yes... but i think i might have it...
772[12:45:16] <TheBigK> or do u think its something related to btrfs
773[12:45:33] <TheBigK> now im glad that i did use a larger test file :D
774[12:46:16] <ratrace> btrfs (and ZFS) do all kinds of magic internally to handle snapshots and subvolumes
775[12:46:19] <TheBigK> i gonna go eat something... ratrace: ur still the person... thank you so much for discussing it with me... that put some holes in my theories :D
776[12:46:42] <ratrace> easy to test with a temporary media dir on the same, root filesystem
777[12:46:57] <ratrace> if it works there, but not across mountpoints ... it's either btrfs issue or inotify-across-mountpoints issue.
786[12:50:44] <ratrace> I've been assuming so far that you tried these tests without altering service's User or Group, and instead put the "minidlna" in the "share" group
788[12:51:12] <ratrace> otherwise, indeed, altering the service group might very well bork the /run/ and /var/log/ dependencies ... but then that error message is miselading
830[13:38:25] <filePeter> Hi, does somebody know what software is used for the debian bts email control service? I’d like to implement a similar service but can’t seem to find the used packages…
832[13:39:35] <Botyuba> in my fstab i added several remote file shares, also added the _netdev option so they may automatically mount after boot, but boot.log claims the mount fails, and i have to use 'sudo mount -a' every single time i reboot my system
833[13:40:11] <Botyuba> the systemctl that is recomneded for investigating contains nor error codes or anyghing of value, it only mentions exit code
834[13:40:14] <Botyuba> but not code
835[13:40:26] <Botyuba> is it possible to automate the "sudo mount -a"?
836[13:40:47] <Botyuba> possibly using a systemd user service?
891[14:43:57] <folti_> does anybody have problem with bluetooth keyboard? Charged it to the max, tried to add it using bluetooth manager bulit into gnome 3.30, installed blueman olso- it keeps writing ONLY zeroes to the terminal, address bar and anything with text input box. Driver problem or it's just old? Hasn't been falling on the floor, hasn't been drained with water. any suggestions?
892[14:45:20] <folti_> bluetooth devices doesn't recognize it. I've ruled out man-in-the-middle attack using mitmf
909[14:58:25] <rnix> hi, i have installed 5.9.0 kernel from backports in debian buster. now, when installing some packages it removes the bp kernel and installs 4.19.0. do i need to pin the bp kernel somehow?
910[14:59:33] <folti_> like, mark it "manually installed"?
915[15:03:10] <folti_> autoremove won't remove it if you mark it manually installed but deps...hm. I've marked xorg as manually installed and still running xorg and not wayland. haven't had issues with that. Ok, maybe mine bluetooth keyboard has issues with it . hm
916[15:03:55] <folti_> rnix:which package are you trying to install?
922[15:06:56] <jelly> folti_, which debian release is this with the bt keyboard
923[15:07:11] <folti_> buster on 4.19
924[15:07:22] <rnix> folti_: i installed linux-image-5.9.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 directly. when installing -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64 it seems to work as expected, currently this pulls a 5.10 kernel
928[15:08:52] <jelly> I think I have a similar keyboard but... nah, it has its own 2.4GHz usb wireless thingy
929[15:09:37] <folti_> ah, lucky you ;) I won't buy any bt kbds anymore
930[15:10:59] <folti_> rnix: you can try to mark 5.9 as manually installed but, from experience, you will have to lookout on the changes in dep tree. autclean for old kernels and update-initramfs, of course
931[15:12:35] <hegemoOn> hello mates
932[15:12:37] <rnix> folti_: as said, letting apt choose the recent kernel from backports solved my issue, thanks
1009[15:57:34] <wintersky> any clues? replaced-url
1010[15:58:04] <themill> !bat
1011[15:58:04] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1027[16:02:33] <themill> buster/updates has the version of chromium you've asked for but you don't have a mirror for buster so it's uninstallable
1028[16:02:42] <vincent-> Hello. I have already read the recommendation of not mirroring the security repo. However, I still want to do it. I'm trying to use "debmirror", which worked fine when mirror the archive repo. However, when trying to mirror security.debian.org/debian-security it fails: replaced-url
1038[16:06:37] <vincent-> themill, if I use "--method=http", then it still wants to do this: "Updating remote trace files (using rsync) ...", and that fails.
1039[16:07:12] <wintersky> themill: when should i add bullseye/updates to sources.list?
1040[16:07:40] <themill> wintersky: you can do that right now, although it's called bullseye-security
1041[16:07:44] <themill> !bullseye-security
1042[16:07:44] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See replaced-url
1047[16:08:40] <nindustries> Hi! I have a Python app in a Debian-based container that's suddenly crashing with free(): invalid Pointer. Any ideas? strace: replaced-url
1048[16:08:40] <wintersky> themill: thanks, so that's why i wasn't able to fwetch anything from tat repo
1058[16:10:53] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
1067[16:23:30] <rockworld> hi everyone, I would like to ask if anyone know how to stop wine popping a windows everytime I get a notification on a windows game
1096[16:47:59] <stwange> Hey is there a difference between proftp-basic and proftp-dfsg packages? I'm trying to find whether or not two CVEs have been patched (CVE-2015-3306 and CVE-2019-12815) but the changelog for proftpd-basic on my system ends in 2014 and the version number doesn't seem to quite match dfsg (mine is 1.3.5e+r1.3.5-2+deb8u7)
1102[16:50:59] <dpkg> Information about the security advisory CVE-2019-12815 may be found at replaced-url
1103[16:51:07] <jelly> stwange, in Debian 10? proftpd-dfsg is the SOURCE package name. proftpd-basic is a BINARY package built that source. They are one and the same basically.
1104[16:51:55] <jelly> stwange, which debian release do you have installed?
1105[16:52:36] <ratrace> stretch it seems, by the package version
1106[16:52:57] <jelly> deb8 not stretch but jessie
1107[16:53:15] <ratrace> ah yes
1108[16:53:26] <jelly> I'm asking about the OS not the particular package right now
1109[16:53:32] <stwange> Thanks Jelly. I can see the proftpd-dfsg changelogs now in change.Debian, sorry for missing those
1120[16:56:45] <jelly> stwange, ^ if your company depends on Debian 8, consider paying for ELTS. Otherwise plan to upgrade to Debian 9 then 10, or migrate services to fresh Debian 10 ASAP
1121[16:57:19] <jelly> same goes even if it's not a company probably
1179[17:29:46] <jelly> this laptop I use with (don't shoot) Ubuntu on it wakes up from sleep with two hours extra time, UTC vs localtime is wrong somewhere, then OS updates the clock when it reestablishes connection to the internet
1226[18:17:03] <jelly> wintersky, that seems a-ok for a testing/unstable setup. If you plan to stick to bullseye, remove sid sooner rather than later and verify which installed package versions or complete packages are not available after that
1227[18:17:38] <wintersky> well jelly, i pinned sid at 99
1228[18:17:54] <wintersky> which means it only will fetch packages from sid on demand
1229[18:17:59] <jelly> that's not going to help you as much as you hope it is
1230[18:18:31] <wintersky> well, my system wont prioritize sid over bullseye so all is fine
1231[18:18:48] <wintersky> i just pinned it for vbox which, also, does not work properly
1232[18:19:02] <wintersky> and vbox lost it's presence in bullseye
1236[18:21:24] <jelly> if you want to stick to bullseye after it's releases try HARD to get rid of ANY repos newer not specifically built for bullseye, esp. newer Debian branches
1244[18:23:47] <jelly> wintersky, it's very, very easy to accidentally pull in a dependency from sid and a) lose track of security support b) use a mix of package versions that noone else uses
1247[18:24:26] <jelly> make local builds specifically built for bullseye
1248[18:24:39] <jelly> !simple sid backport
1249[18:24:39] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
1251[18:25:19] <jelly> wintersky, so pick a path forward, testing/unstable, or bullseye without unstable
1252[18:25:31] <jelly> if former,
1253[18:25:34] <jelly> !debian-next
1254[18:25:34] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1318[19:13:31] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
1319[19:13:43] <wintersky> backports are not as fast as sid
1320[19:13:47] <somiaj> wintersky: don't mix stable/unstable, learn to use backports, debian provides them (kernels and firmware are very common to backports)
1397[20:26:12] <terr> I need to have windows 7 and 10 available
1398[20:26:14] <EdePopede> you could try it out with a test data partition anyway. just don't put anything important to it as long as you don't trust it.
1399[20:26:33] <terr> Bare drive.
1400[20:27:10] <EdePopede> if you want to go safe then something exFAT or w/e maybe. whatever they use for pendrives. or NTFS, but no idea how linux is with recent versions of it.
1401[20:27:16] <terr> I got a 1TB drive for $40 bux
1403[20:27:59] <echoSMILE> "git verify-tag <tag>" shoul be enough right?
1404[20:27:59] <EdePopede> again, XP. i used its file systems as storage areas at the end, only booted it to checkdisk and clean it up.
1405[20:28:23] <echoSMILE> weird, at one freebsd the verification works, at debian is like it doesn't
1406[20:28:33] <terr> I was thinking NTFS. But you are right. Thumbs use exFat by default
1407[20:28:55] <EdePopede> terr, i was reading something *against* exFAT somewhere. no idea where. maybe...
1408[20:28:58] <EdePopede> !exfat
1409[20:28:58] <dpkg> exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table, <MBR> partition ID 0x07) is a proprietary file system designed for flash drives. A <FUSE> driver providing exFAT read/write support is packaged for Debian as exfat-fuse. replaced-url
1410[20:29:20] <EdePopede> nope, doesn't sound like "don't use it, it's bad"
1411[20:29:27] <EdePopede> !fatx
1412[20:29:37] <EdePopede> oh
1413[20:29:39] <EdePopede> !coffee
1414[20:29:39] <dpkg> somebody said coffee was the reason the net exists, the drug of choice for a GNU generation, replaced-url
1418[20:32:28] <terr> News is on. They are bitching about a gasoline shortage because of the Colonial pipeline. I don't know why they are worried. They figure windmills will do the job!!
1419[20:32:35] <sney> !ot
1420[20:32:35] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
1421[20:33:19] <terr> Does Debian fully support NTFS?
1458[21:11:26] <sney> ntfs is fully supported for read/write on separate volumes, but it can't be used for anything that requires unix permissions
1459[21:11:53] <sney> it's also a little slow because of the fuse overhead, but you may not notice that in practice depending on what you're storing on it
1472[21:24:21] <folti_> yes, ntfs is supported in deb and you can mount your lin mbr ext3 and ext4 parts with a an 3rd party driver in for ext2/ext3. look it up on the net. i know that it existed at some point. q=ext3/ext4 driver for win 7
1489[21:30:31] <folti_> the debian gui installer will offer you to install itself along win7. you can make space for your future ext4 partition from win Disk Manager. just format it as fat32 and install debian on ext4 during install process
1490[21:32:44] <EdePopede> really, new machine, win7? my used lenovo came with win10 already. how long until doomsday?
1494[21:34:02] <terr> I will repartition when I get it and likely lift the whole image. I think this should be fine (if not please advise). It is a 1TB drive. I sure don't need 1 TB for win 7!!! The question I have is this: at least 3 partitions. Linux, win 7, win 10, probably shared data. So I'll be subdividing the 4th partition. I was doing this months ago and I think I have a plan that works. Oh. 2 more operating systems: win 7 (32 & 64) win 10 (32 & 64)
1495[21:34:05] <folti_> win7 is actually more private than win10s 'cause of amount of telemetry they can send. if someone needs win-box for some reason and that specific app can run on 7...
1501[21:37:05] <terr> The machine has a windows 10 (64) installed. This is a new drive which will likely replace the present one. If so... its 64 bit. If external then I want both 32 & 64 so I can usexut on anything and this will include a Raspberry pi
1503[21:38:47] <terr> Nope. Offline. Debian will go online. Windows is going to be so shut down utcwill think it's in Antarctica at the bottom of Lake vostok
1504[21:39:06] <folti_> ok, select uefi install option when you install debian (on partitionig part of installer). it will obviousli be gpt, NOT mbr. could be fun if the shared partion would be zfs. it's an ssd or hdd?
1505[21:39:46] <terr> Hdd
1506[21:40:32] <folti_> zfs is also supported under debian and openzfs is a port for win ;) try zfs as shared.
1507[21:40:59] <terr> Ssd in the rpi but I want to be able to boot from a USB hdd. Don't know why yet.
1517[21:45:43] <terr> Ya. This is an HP notebook. Looks pretty good and a good price too. I have twin towers as well. I hope I don't need windows but I might for some software I am forced to use
1519[21:46:31] <somiaj> terr: running win 10 inside a vm works great for lost of things, what I use the few times I have to access windows only software.
1520[21:47:24] <terr> Can the OEM version do this?
1521[21:48:53] <folti_> what? to change the boot sequence? or to run vms?
1522[21:49:01] <terr> I hate to send any money to that 2 bit company. They have cost me years of my life
1523[21:49:18] <terr> Vm
1524[21:49:18] <somiaj> I'm unsure on the windows license and if running the OEM version that comes with a laptop inside a VM is considered legal or not.
1525[21:49:26] <terr> Visit
1526[21:49:49] <terr> Vms runs on a VAX
1527[21:49:52] <somiaj> This is a bit outside of debian support, I'm just pointing out that I find windows 10 in a vm fairly smooth for no graphical stuff, and gives you access without having to dual boot
1529[21:50:28] <terr> If it will run this is how I will do it.
1530[21:50:33] <jmcnaught> I would also avoid dual boot and use Windows in a VM if possible. Make sure the laptop supports virtualization before you buy it though.
1532[21:51:38] <EdePopede> <terr> Nope. Offline. Debian will go online. <-- that was also my idea for the lenovo. never been relevant but now with a fritzbox with half a dozen slots, why not. what would be the best way to AUTOMATICALLY have the router block the PC when it's booted into windows? could i fake the MAC in grub or something?
1533[21:51:40] <folti_> you get a license code from ms with that oem edition, right? you are probably paying it, so ask for it.
1534[21:52:10] <terr> Never thought of that. Let me get the type of cpus. BRB.
1568[22:32:55] <forgotmynick> I'm trying to get an additional SFTP user (user2) for user1 but to make sure when user2 creates any files or folders, the ownership stays as user user1 and group user1. user1 has group membership of user1 and sftponly. user2 has group membership of user1 and sftponly and home directory set to /home/user1. Config has "Match Group sftpgroup" and "ChrootDirectory %h". When sftp as user2, I see user1 home directory
1569[22:32:55] <forgotmynick> chrooted perfectly fine, however (obviously) I can't create folders/files. I've seen some posts online referencing setfacl but I don't fully understand how to use it. Please advise?
1593[22:52:36] <Quietus> I don't think even with setfacl you can replace ownership of a file at creation. You can ensure the permissions stick with a default ACL on the directory but the owner of will still be user2. What problem are you trying to solve with setting the owner to user2? There may be a better approach.
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1595[22:56:12] *** Quits: stwange (~j@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1609[23:07:13] <earendel> hi. can dd a raw image straight onto a device?
1610[23:07:34] *** Quits: BenjiProd (~BenjiProd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1611[23:07:40] <johnjay> when i look at debian cd images to download one says 'mac' and the other 'edu'?
1612[23:07:43] <johnjay> i can't find what those mean
1613[23:08:05] <jelly> earendel, yes, but be careful abot picking a large enough (output) block size
1614[23:08:39] <sney> johnjay: usually there is a blurb on the cdimage index page, but anyway, 'mac' is for specific older intel mac models and 'edu' contains some education-specific package sets.
1615[23:08:43] <earendel> jelly: okay. what size would you suggest?
1616[23:08:56] <earendel> 1024?
1617[23:08:58] <johnjay> i see
1618[23:08:59] <jelly> earendel, depends on the destination device
1619[23:09:03] <sney> johnjay: the one that does *not* say 'mac' or 'edu' is the one to use for most systems.
1620[23:09:13] <jelly> earendel, what kind of device is it?
1621[23:09:17] <earendel> jolly: an usb thumbstick
1622[23:09:21] <johnjay> ah ok older intel macintosh machines is ee it
1623[23:09:29] <earendel> jelly pardon
1624[23:09:31] <jelly> earendel, bs=4M
1625[23:09:37] <earendel> ok. thanks
1626[23:09:39] <johnjay> intel macintosh still doesn't register as a thing in my brain
1633[23:10:56] <earendel> or should i format it at least in the same fs?
1634[23:10:56] <jelly> earendel, maybe not, but it depends on what you're going to do with the image, and what kind of image it is
1635[23:11:06] <jelly> no need to format anything
1636[23:11:16] <sney> johnjay: if you use the netinst with a working network connection, simply select xfce from the installer menu.
1637[23:11:20] <earendel> ok. let's give it a try. thx jelly
1638[23:11:20] <jelly> the image already contains a format
1639[23:11:42] <johnjay> ok i'll try that thanks
1640[23:12:13] <earendel> it should. yeah. however the orgigin partition is smaller than usb size.. i wonder if it will be recreate in the original size. i guess s.