People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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1 [00:01:34] <jesse1010> is zfs safe for a debian boot drive?
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9 [00:06:24] <ratrace> jesse1010: if by "boot drive" you mean root fs, yes it is
10 [00:07:01] <ratrace> as long as you keep in mind that ZFS is DKMS and that there are some situations in which kernel upgrade + zfs upgrade at the same time must be done carefully and step by step.
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16 [00:16:27] <deadrom> in other words: no
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18 [00:18:54] <ratrace> in other words yes. if your system is critical and has to come back up on boot if at all possible, there's always precautions you need to take, ZFS or not
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39 [00:32:00] <jhutchins> !su
40 [00:32:01] <dpkg> extra, extra read all about it, su is switch/set user. It is used to change User ID's and/or gain super user access. Since Debian Buster, "su -" or "su -l" is needed to access programs located in /sbin (see <buster su>). It provides an root environment as if the superuser had logged in directly. See "man su".
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56 [00:55:09] <JordiGH> !buster su
57 [00:55:09] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See replaced-url
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60 [00:56:08] <JordiGH> Btw, why is /sbin not in the default $PATH? I gotta type out `/sbin/ifconfig` if I want some simple diagnostic output.
61 [00:58:59] <jmcnaught> You could use ip instead
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71 [01:05:47] <JordiGH> jmcnaught: Yes, but that's not my question.
72 [01:06:01] <JordiGH> I asked, "why is /sbin not in the default $PATH"?
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74 [01:06:46] <Waxhead> Howdy. Is it possible for me to use apt / apt-get / aptitude to install any package in a way that it gets locally compiled and optmized for my CPU ? e.g. a custom built package just for me and my computer ?
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85 [01:10:16] <JordiGH> No, apt doesn't compile.
86 [01:10:19] <JordiGH> It just downloads.
87 [01:10:35] <Waxhead> JordiGH: Alrighty thanks.
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89 [01:11:11] <JordiGH> I mean, there are some exceptions. Some packages like the nvidia blob are actually configured to download and compile things from nvidia. But those are rare.
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91 [01:12:35] <Waxhead> JordiGH: yeah I know. I was just curious if it was possible somehow to "order" a locally compiled blender / gimp / whatever for example. I assume most packages are compiled for older CPU's and do for example utilize all the registers in my CPU.
92 [01:12:45] <Waxhead> (which is a shame ;) )
93 [01:13:57] <JordiGH> I don't think that's true, but if you wanna funroll loops like it's 2005, you can download source packages with `apt-get source` and use `dpkg-buildpackage` with your favourite Gentoo-like flags.
94 [01:15:03] <Waxhead> Probably... I never used Gentoo , but I know it builds from source ;)... Actually I would like to unroll loops like it was 1986 if I could :P
95 [01:16:11] <JordiGH> You're probably better off disabling linux mitigations for spectre and meltdown.
96 [01:16:21] <JordiGH> Like speeding without a seat belt.
97 [01:16:58] <Waxhead> JordiGH: If I ... hypotetically speaking ... already did. I would have... told you... yes, that sounds good. I would have told you! :D
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163 [02:40:20] <imMute> JordiGH: sbin is typically for things that regular users can't really use and only root can, so it's not in their PATH by default
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173 [02:53:36] <somiaj> JordiGH: ifconfig is one of the weird ones, since it can be used by a normal user for informational things, but not for other things. Though in general as metnioned most binaries in sbin/ aren't useful to a normal user due to normal user lacking permissions.
174 [02:54:17] <sney> I symlink a couple of them to /usr/local/bin on my systems, ifconfig and modinfo in particular
175 [02:54:28] <somiaj> In my limited experience that has been the one binary I have had to type out the full path as a normal issue, though since it has been depricated and I've moved to using ip, I rarely notice this anymore
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179 [02:56:27] <somiaj> if really desired you could add sbin/ to your $PATH, but for the most part it just gives access to binaries you can't make use of unless you had root permissions
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183 [03:05:09] <JordiGH> somiaj: There's a few others in /sbin that can be used for informational things, like lsmod or modinfo.
184 [03:05:52] <sney> lsmod is in /bin
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188 [03:09:04] <somiaj> yes ifconfig was the only one I noticed in the past, but due to ip don't anymore, though as sney pointed out you can create links or add sbin/ to your users $PATH.
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204 [03:37:51] <buu> Ok so
205 [03:38:16] <buu> ls /dev/nvme? tells me I have 3 nvme disks
206 [03:38:28] <buu> lspci | grep nvme tells me I have 4
207 [03:39:26] <sney> pastebin that so we can see it, but I bet one of those pci entries is a controller or similar
208 [03:41:47] <buu> replaced-url
209 [03:42:03] <somiaj> some m.2 slots can use the sata interface as well
210 [03:42:05] <buu> That would make me sad
211 [03:42:14] <buu> I am using a u.2 slot
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214 [03:42:57] <somiaj> to me that looks like 3 controllers and one disk
215 [03:43:07] <buu> replaced-url
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217 [03:43:16] <buu> somiaj: Well, there's 4 disks plugged in =]
218 [03:43:22] <somiaj> on wait sorry they are four controllers
219 [03:43:54] <somiaj> check your firmware/bios, I know on my mobo some of my controlers can either be nvme or sata and it is configurable in the firmware
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221 [03:47:40] <buu> I don't understand the relevance
222 [03:48:12] <buu> nvme nvme3: Removing after probe failure status: -19
223 [03:48:27] <buu> It detects it but it's not in /dev/
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225 [03:52:07] <buu> =[
226 [03:52:12] <buu> infinite sadness
227 [03:52:18] <somiaj> does your firmware see it?
228 [03:52:31] <buu> the what?
229 [03:52:51] <sney> 'removing after probe failure' could just be a bad connection, re-seat the nvme and make sure it's at right angles with the slot
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231 [03:53:22] <somiaj> the bios/firmware of your mobo?
232 [03:53:33] <sney> (if you never did hardware support, re-seat means take it all the way out, inspect, and re-insert. wiggling it in place does not count)
233 [03:53:37] <buu> I mean, I'd have to reboot
234 [03:53:40] <somiaj> but yea, I would double check the connection, I was just trying to see if your firmware sees it but the os doens't
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236 [03:54:05] <buu> I do get a lovely green led though
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277 [04:52:57] <forgotmynick> does /dev/shm have an inode limit?
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279 [04:54:15] <sney> according to df -i it does
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283 [04:56:04] <sney> and tmpfs(5) has a nr_inodes mount option, so I guess it does actually have inodes and the df output isn't an artifact
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305 [05:29:25] <yanmaani> finally solved my RAM problem
306 [05:29:30] <yanmaani> turns out I had /var/log mounted as tmpfs
307 [05:29:39] <yanmaani> and this didn't show up anywhere when I looked for ram usage
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335 [06:22:50] <brizz> i ran out of inodes space but had only used 50% of the partition (dont know if im using right words). since i only used 50% of the space, is there anything I can do to increase inodes w/out increasing partition size?
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337 [06:25:37] <unixbsd> where to find the Debian stable for amd64, with a kernel freebsd?
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344 [06:41:20] <somiaj> unixbsd: its an unoffical port it seems replaced-url
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349 [06:45:17] <unixbsd> somiaj: do you know a cdrom hybrid to test on amd64?
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351 [06:48:15] <somiaj> unixbsd: I haven't tested that, but the links seem to suggest there is an unoffical netinstall image, but don't think there are any live images. replaced-url
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400 [08:32:21] <EdePopede> yanmaani: that's odd, there are some more tmpfs, are they listed by `mount`?
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427 [08:55:48] <unixbsd> systemd allows users for complete depresssion. At boot, if the systemd/networking layer does not find lan/wifi, then it will take hours. same at reboot. complete madness to put systemd in all linux distros
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431 [08:58:38] <cosimone> hello, anybody know when this is going to be ported? replaced-url
432 [08:58:39] <judd> Bug replaced-url
433 [08:59:00] <ratrace> unixbsd: that's not systemd's fault, but whoever did the bad configuration of services on those machines
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435 [08:59:32] <ratrace> is systemd more sensitive to certain error conditions? yes, and RIGHTLY so. sysv hid those. Is it configurable and tunable for the admin to say what is or isn't critical for boot? ABSO LUTELY.
436 [08:59:37] <unixbsd> unplugg the cable, and systemd willl take 5 to 10 min to boot ! bravooooo linux !
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438 [09:00:08] <themill> yeah, you might like to fix your config
439 [09:00:12] <ratrace> cosimone: it's not
440 [09:00:31] <ratrace> !cve lookup CVE-2021-30145
441 [09:00:31] <dpkg> Information about the security advisory CVE-2021-30145 may be found at replaced-url
442 [09:00:34] <ratrace> cosimone: ^^^^
443 [09:00:43] <cosimone> ah, that's too bad
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445 [09:01:08] <ratrace> cosimone: why? it's apparently not an issue deemed important for buster
446 [09:01:31] <cosimone> i don't need to justify fixing a known issue
447 [09:01:38] <ratrace> unixbsd: unplug the power cable and the machine won't boot at all !!!! BRAVOOOO!
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449 [09:02:19] <ratrace> cosimone: not all issues are the same. so I was wondering why you thought this was particularly improtant as you asked this already few weeks ago (and had the same answer). if I mistook you for someone else, my apologies.
450 [09:02:20] <TheBigK> :D
451 [09:02:35] <unixbsd> ratrace: best solution to avoid to wait... I forgot the 10 min to find out that the disk is healthy also time to time.. maybe linux people have lot of time to play around.
452 [09:02:41] <ratrace> unixbsd: then configure it so
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454 [09:03:08] <ratrace> unixbsd: you are, again, as usual, not listening and you're talking to yourself. this is not linux or systemd issue but whoever configured those services badly.
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456 [09:03:58] <TheBigK> my system runs just fine without network at boot... i have some trouble with e1000e kernel module... and whenever i have no network... i have no 10 mins to wait...
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461 [09:05:19] <unixbsd> TheBigK: maybe you have only exp. with windows and linux, try BSD you will see the diff
462 [09:05:25] <ratrace> one of most common reasons for boot to fail due to no network is because the ADMIN of that system told it to fail if there's no network for a network filesystem which is deemed critical for boot
463 [09:05:41] <ratrace> unixbsd: excellent! Delete debian and go back to a BSD. Byeeeee.
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465 [09:06:04] <somiaj> TheBigK: do you have services that depend on the network being up? My system boots justfine without networking.
466 [09:06:07] <TheBigK> lol... someone got triggered :D
467 [09:06:22] <ratrace> totally.... been listening to this bsd crap here for months now
468 [09:06:31] <unixbsd> I have to use Linux. well, companies using linux is cool anyhow
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470 [09:06:58] <ratrace> it's fine if you don't like linux or systemd. go use devuan or bsd and gtfo.
471 [09:07:20] <TheBigK> is the bsd kernel of debian ment here? or is it really an openbsd making the trouble ?! im confused
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473 [09:07:33] <somiaj> TheBigK: systemd has a network-online.target that uses various -wait services that will wait for the network to come online before moving on to any services which depend on having the network up and running. You could disable these services and manually run them at the times you have a network.
474 [09:08:17] <TheBigK> somiaj: i dont have any trouble. so u may be wanna talk to unixbsd xD
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476 [09:08:30] <somiaj> TheBigK: debian does have an unoffical port with the freebsd kernel, though this is just more offtopic rambling
477 [09:08:34] <somiaj> TheBigK: ahh sorry, missunderstood
478 [09:08:41] <unixbsd> somiaj: so, finally, you have to wait all your life long waiting with systemd. do mention also about the memory waste in >20 MB
479 [09:09:05] <TheBigK> i had that issue in a similar way with an encrypted drive. but i just deactivated all services and start them with cryptdisk_start
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481 [09:10:17] <ratrace> TheBigK: cryptdisk_start?
482 [09:10:51] <ratrace> unixbsd: install Devuan. It's a linux, based on Debian so probably most of programs are the same. And enjoy systemd-free, error-free booting!
483 [09:10:53] <TheBigK> its a script which can be used to mount a crypted drive
484 [09:10:58] <themill> unixbsd: that's enough thanks, you're talking utter bollocks at this stage
485 [09:11:06] <ratrace> TheBigK: oh a crypttab keyscript?
486 [09:11:21] <TheBigK> ratrace: yeah... i have that drive as noauto in my crypttab
487 [09:11:30] <TheBigK> and then i say cryptdisk_start pidrive...
488 [09:11:50] <TheBigK> and then it asks for pw... and then it automatically runs a shell script which starts all related services for me
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490 [09:12:33] <TheBigK> its part of cryptsetup i believe ? let me check
491 [09:12:52] <TheBigK> yes it is
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500 [09:18:00] <ratrace> TheBigK: nice!
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547 [10:08:04] <azonenberg> Hi folks
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550 [10:08:46] <azonenberg> I'm the original author and one of the core developers of glscopeclient, a BSD-licensed tool for remote control of oscilloscopes/logic analyzers and analyzing data from them
551 [10:09:20] <azonenberg> We're working on getting a v0.1 release out the door some time this summer and would love for someone to help us get it packaged up in .deb format
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559 [10:16:50] <nkuttler> !tell azonenberg about wnpp
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587 [10:55:18] <Lope> anyone here into bcache?
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591 [11:01:54] <AL13N_lappy> hey, so i have a client with an old debian (5 or 6 or something) (from a 3rd party), minimal setup, and i put a progam i wrote on it, which has a segfault, and so i wanted the coredump to debug, but it seems not to create a core dump, even though i set ulimit -c to unlimited and i change core_pattern to something in /tmp/; anyone know any other idea/setting that might affect it?
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594 [11:06:56] <sussudio> AL13N_lappy: incompatible libs, like libc, maybe?
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596 [11:08:53] <petn-randall> AL13N_lappy: Is that program compiled against the libs from that system?
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598 [11:09:05] <petn-randall> AL13N_lappy: Also, can you check which OS release you're running?
599 [11:11:00] <AL13N_lappy> petn-randall: i don't really have an idea except that the layout is debian like, there is no package manager and issue is overwritten, but it is true that i did a static build with a different libc
600 [11:11:29] <jelly> AL13N_lappy, is the current working directory writable for the user the app is started as?
601 [11:11:38] <AL13N_lappy> it's completely static (took me a while), so it shouldn't have anything in common (or conflicting) with the system
602 [11:11:56] <AL13N_lappy> jelly: i already set the core pattern to something i /tmp/
603 [11:12:08] <jelly> that may or may not work at all
604 [11:12:42] <jelly> also, uname -a ?
605 [11:12:50] <AL13N_lappy> how so? it's completely static, i even built it against musl, so it wouldn't conflict on the target system
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607 [11:13:16] <jelly> I mean the kernel may be ignoring or be buggy with core pattern
608 [11:13:19] <AL13N_lappy> jelly: 2.6.37-R5 #1 SMP PREEMPT 0 i686 GNU/Linux
609 [11:13:27] <jelly> so a custom kernel
610 [11:13:30] <AL13N_lappy> 2.6.37 might be deb6
611 [11:13:41] <AL13N_lappy> oic
612 [11:13:57] <AL13N_lappy> so it might be disabled in the kernel itself, wow
613 [11:14:04] <AL13N_lappy> jelly: that's pretty special
614 [11:14:17] <AL13N_lappy> i'm gonna check the config.gz if it's there
615 [11:14:20] <jelly> 2.6.26 would have been default for debian 5, I _think_ it was 2.6.32 for debian 6 but I don't remember
616 [11:14:58] <jelly> look in /boot/ for a config-*
617 [11:15:09] <AL13N_lappy> OMG: # CONFIG_ELF_CORE is not set
618 [11:15:16] <jelly> there ya go
619 [11:15:22] <AL13N_lappy> goddamnit
620 [11:15:28] <AL13N_lappy> ugh
621 [11:15:57] <AL13N_lappy> now i have to build a test system specifically to test this out... grrrr
622 [11:16:05] <AL13N_lappy> jelly: thx a lot
623 [11:16:14] <jelly> interesting that it has a /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern at all
624 [11:16:31] <AL13N_lappy> i've asked this everywhere, you're the first person to point to it
625 [11:16:56] <AL13N_lappy> maybe due to: CONFIG_WEXT_CORE=y
626 [11:17:14] <jelly> old kernels had weirdness around that feature
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633 [11:31:16] <eoli3n_> Hi
634 [11:31:25] <eoli3n_> i'm settting up unattended upgrades for a server
635 [11:31:37] <eoli3n_> defaultly, two sources are enabled
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638 [11:32:10] <eoli3n_> "Debian" and "Debian-security", is that ok to only use "Debian-security" ?
639 [11:33:25] <Lope> If I use bcache with NVME as the cache drive and SATA SSD as the backing drive, will TRIM be sent to both SSD's?
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641 [11:34:58] <jelly> eoli3n_, sounds like that would miss non-security updates that come with a point release
642 [11:35:33] <jelly> Lope, there's a #bcache channel over on OFTC
643 [11:35:46] <eoli3n_> a "point release" ?
644 [11:35:52] <jelly> aand you've already found it
645 [11:36:01] <jelly> !point release
646 [11:36:01] <dpkg> Point releases are updates to <stable> and <oldstable>, fixing security and grave bug fixes. If you track security updates regularly (as you should!) there will often be no updates for you in the point release. You can upgrade to the latest point release with "apt update && apt full-upgrade". Ask me about <9.13>, <10.5>.. replaced-url
647 [11:36:50] <eoli3n_> thanks jelly
648 [11:37:03] <eoli3n_> that's on proxmox
649 [11:37:06] <ratrace> Lope: for ZFS?
650 [11:38:03] <jelly> eoli3n_, proxmox makes too many changes to the OS that we can't provide support for it in here, and some of the best practices for Debian might not apply, or could even break things. Tread with care.
651 [11:38:08] <jelly> !proxmox
652 [11:38:08] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
653 [11:38:48] <jelly> assuming you're talking about a proxmox host, not Debian guest inside a proxmox platform
654 [11:39:46] <Lope> jelly, I found it, thanks. The channel is a bit dead.
655 [11:39:59] <Lope> ratrace, nah, I'm looking into using bcache for current project.
656 [11:40:31] <jelly> patience is advised, that's mostly a dev channel
657 [11:41:11] <eoli3n_> jelly proxmox host yes, i asked on ##proxmox too, lets check what they say about this
658 [11:41:17] <eoli3n_> thanks for your answer
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665 [11:48:30] * jelly not sure unattended-upgraded are best practice even for Debian
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667 [11:53:38] <ratrace> it's not. it's terrible practice promoted by ubuntu
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669 [11:55:51] <oxek> I'd say promoted by MS
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674 [11:58:57] <petn-randall> If you have a fleet of machines you don't want to update them all by hand.
675 [12:01:01] <ratrace> petn-randall: correct, so you use proper automation. ansible, saltstack, puppet, chef, ...
676 [12:01:40] <ratrace> which you already have in place because you don't want to configure and maintain the fleet by hand :)
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691 [12:18:25] <Razva> Hi. Can you let me know what should I `tail` in order to see the NFS logs? I have troubles connecting to a share and I can't really understand what's going on, so I need to debug this.
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707 [12:48:50] <petn-randall> ratrace: TBH I use unattended-upgrades because I just install it on the machines (via ansible) and don't have to touch it after that.
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710 [12:52:14] <ratrace> petn-randall: so you never reboot for kernel upgrades or restart services for dependent library upgrades?
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712 [12:54:52] <tcurdt> I have some cron script that should go in /etc/cron.d ... but they are multi line scripts (and using && is too much) ... so I need to point to a script from their /etc/cron.d files
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714 [12:55:09] <tcurdt> is there a "standard" place for where to place cron scripts?
715 [12:55:16] <themill> ratrace: ansible can do those bits for you too
716 [12:55:32] <tcurdt> (other thatn /etc/cron.daily etc)
717 [12:56:31] <tcurdt> themill: I would still have to put the file somewhere. or wdym?
718 [12:56:53] <tcurdt> (I am using ansbile already)
719 [12:56:59] <themill> tcurdt ≠ ratrace
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721 [12:58:18] <themill> tcurdt: /usr/local/sbin is a reasonable place for those scripts. You could put them somewhere outside of PATH if that made you feel better
722 [12:59:09] <ratrace> themill: which is my point exactly. you already are using automation for things that unattended-upgrades doesn't complete, because it half asses the job.
723 [12:59:23] <themill> ratrace: eh?
724 [12:59:43] <ratrace> "< themill> ratrace: ansible can do those bits for you too"
725 [12:59:52] <petn-randall> ratrace: I use needrestart to restart services that use changed libs. Btw, I'm not arguing against your way, just pointing out that you /can/ do those things differently, too.
726 [13:00:21] <petn-randall> Using ansible to orchestrate rolling upgrades is a great way to do it.
727 [13:00:46] <ratrace> yes but my point is that unattended-upgrades doesn't do the complete job. you need automation _anyway_ so why bother risking unattened breakage, instead of testing and consciously applying an upgrae since you have to write that play anyway
728 [13:00:51] <themill> unattended-upgrades also integrates with needrestart
729 [13:01:47] <ratrace> if I had a nickel every time I had to salvage a server borked by unattended-upgrades .... I'd have a few dollahs now :)
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731 [13:03:12] <ratrace> and speaking of needrestart integration, that doesn't orchestrate. for example... restarting postgresql because libss upgrded would wreak havoc on our servers because it requires carefuly coordination between postgres restart and consumers of its apis
732 [13:03:23] <ratrace> *libssl
733 [13:04:25] <jelly> how could needrestart possibly know about that
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735 [13:05:04] <ratrace> exactly, which is why it's insufficient.
736 [13:05:08] <jelly> it's a script with some heuristics and works better than it has any right to
737 [13:05:19] <jelly> you want hooks? Implement hooks
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739 [13:06:11] <jelly> that's probably the only sane way to have unattended-upgrades and/or needrestart work in a nontrivial environment
740 [13:06:24] <ratrace> I don't tho. I test upgrades on a set of test VMs for each role and then I write an upgrade rollout saltstack task
741 [13:06:37] <jelly> right
742 [13:07:01] <ratrace> then again I don't have toy systems.... except the one I literally toy on, but that's a mission critical machine because I also work on it, so... :)
743 [13:07:03] <jelly> so you do upgrades on a level above each host
744 [13:08:07] <petn-randall> ratrace: So you're saying the consumers of said APIs can't gracefully recover when it's not available?
745 [13:08:47] <jelly> petn-randall, you're funny
746 [13:08:48] <ratrace> petn-randall: none can do that fully
747 [13:09:14] <ratrace> if the backend disappears mid transaction, not even penguing god can gracefully recover from taht
748 [13:09:45] <jelly> each time I restart a db at $work things break for hours-weeks
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750 [13:09:55] <ratrace> so we have "maintenance mode" where we put the apps into that, and each http request sits and waits for the flag to clear before proceeding. thats' as graceful as it gets for full OLTP consistency without interruption
751 [13:10:04] <jelly> what are dependencies? /me cries
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755 [13:17:14] <petn-randall> jelly: I'm not saying any names, but $company has a load-balancer setup that I built that takes out machines responding with HTTP 500, so they can gracefully recover the occasional hiccup. Today I found out they deprecated some endpoints by removing some code that makes the endpoint return a HTTP 500 error.
756 [13:20:01] <petn-randall> Just crap I've been coping with this week. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
757 [13:21:00] <ratrace> maybe unattended-upgrades did that? :))))
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760 [13:22:17] <petn-randall> No, that's just crappy code they're writing.
761 [13:24:17] <ratrace> how do you know? it's unattended. you didn't attend. you didn't pay attention :) /stick-poke
762 [13:25:40] <petn-randall> They removed PHP code, and now their endpoint returns a HTTP 500 error due to missing code. No underlying libraries are involved.
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797 [14:33:55] <jelly> petn-randall, works as designed? :-)
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803 [14:36:00] <jelly> things I do: grab docker image from internal $group vendor; unpack, grab the springboot .jar file named .war, put it behind systemd, java-service-wrapper and haproxy instead of running @#$% docker on a public frontend
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805 [14:38:34] <jelly> to do today: hardcode detection of autoreply from a specific source into Mailman to make it stop responding with its own autoreply
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807 [14:39:09] <ratrace> I lost you after "grab docker..."
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832 [15:04:28] <hegemoOn> @jelly issue was apt-daily.timers and apt-daily-upgrade-timers to disable in order to get apt 1.8.2.3 installed
833 [15:04:58] <hegemoOn> (get the dpkg --configure -a, apt --fix-broken and then apt install apt)
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837 [15:09:22] <ratrace> hegemoOn: don't use @, this ain't twitter and some people's clients might not pick up the nick to highlight it d-.-b
838 [15:09:42] <jelly> hegemoOn, that's interesting, thanks
839 [15:10:13] <jelly> I've noticed _something_ starting apt at inopportune times but never bothered to investigate
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841 [15:12:12] <hegemoOn> ratrace:yes sorry :)
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850 [15:16:49] <hegemoOn> in fact the issue was at apt postinstall
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852 [15:17:47] <hegemoOn> starting apt-daily.timer which was hanging
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881 [15:41:59] <Klaus_Dieter> hello world. After reading replaced-url
882 [15:42:04] <Klaus_Dieter> the best way doing that, short of setting up an entirely new system?
883 [15:42:50] <deltreey> is there a debian server distro? I like debian cinnamon for day to day stuff, but I keep falling back to ubuntu server to run my servers and I'd like a desktop-less debian server instead as it doesn't come with all the extras
884 [15:42:53] <ksk> Mhhhm, it might be a changeroot could suffice here
885 [15:42:55] <ksk> !changeroot
886 [15:43:00] <ksk> !chroot
887 [15:43:00] <dpkg> To chroot into a Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem with "mount /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
888 [15:43:26] <ksk> you would be using debootstrap to get a copy of eg. debian testing, and then "chroot into".
889 [15:43:33] <ksk> !tell Klaus_Dieter about debootstrap
890 [15:43:57] <Klaus_Dieter> ksk: thanks, I will do that. This should also take care of the many dependencies of ffmpeg.
891 [15:44:32] <ksk> deltreey: There is one Debian (more or less..). Just do not choose "desktop" when ask by the installer. You get a non-GUI install then
892 [15:45:06] <Klaus_Dieter> deltreey: why not use vanilla debian? you can set it up in automated fashin, script the installer, do tftp boot and have it remain a cli only system.
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894 [15:45:33] <ratrace> deltreey: Debian is universal and very efficient as a server. why are you falling back to ubuntu for servers? ubuntu has not a single advatage (other than canonical's paid offerings) for teh server, over debian.
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899 [15:46:32] <avu> once you realize you don't get security updates for stuff in universe and multiverse, Ubuntu actually has severe downsides on the server IMO
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902 [15:46:50] <ratrace> indeed
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913 [15:56:06] <Klaus_Dieter> following the instructions from replaced-url
914 [15:56:12] <Klaus_Dieter> place?
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921 [16:04:07] <hegemoOn> for an ansible playbook i call apt isntall localpack.deb
922 [16:04:31] <hegemoOn> which argument can i pass for noninterractiveness ?
923 [16:04:36] <hegemoOn> apt install -y ?
924 [16:05:32] <imMute> hegemoOn: redirecting stdin to /dev/null does a pretty good job too. there's some env variables you can set but I forget what they're called
925 [16:05:37] <ratrace> hegemoOn: iirc the ansible's apt module already does it
926 [16:05:51] <ratrace> if you're using the apt module and not invoking apt via the shell or command modules
927 [16:06:07] <hegemoOn> ratrace: last time i tried to install a local package with apt module it failed :)
928 [16:06:34] <ratrace> hegemoOn: how did you supply the path?
929 [16:07:20] <ratrace> it has to be clearly a path, or else apt would confuse it for a package from repos, even if the .dev is physically in teh CWD
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932 [16:08:26] <jelly> hegemoOn, ansible has a module for apt.
933 [16:08:37] * jelly slow
934 [16:08:57] <ratrace> hegemoOn: also, the parameter for the module is "deb", not "name", which is for repo packages. are you using that?
935 [16:09:16] <hegemoOn> i will test again (just pushed to git repo, now lauching a machine build)
936 [16:09:22] <jelly> hegemoOn, note that "apt install ./blah_1.0_all.deb" makes apt do a different thing than "apt install blah_1.0_all.deb"
937 [16:09:58] <jelly> in general, "apt" tool does not have a stable API and isn't meant to be used noninteractively
938 [16:10:49] <jelly> I'd go with "dpkg -i /path/to/deb" and "apt-get -f install" in case the first command fails, probably
939 [16:11:16] <ratrace> slow again... :)
940 [16:11:24] <hegemoOn> and is there a way to install a .deb without all dependancies ?
941 [16:11:37] <hegemoOn> i just want the files on the file system from a .deb package
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943 [16:12:01] <ratrace> unzip it :)
944 [16:12:14] <EdePopede> ar x $debfile
945 [16:12:20] <EdePopede> and the rest should be obvious ;)
946 [16:12:33] <hegemoOn> from / ?
947 [16:13:03] <EdePopede> seems that at least official packages all have filepathes with ./
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949 [16:13:41] <EdePopede> the ar command can happen wherever you want
950 [16:13:58] <EdePopede> i just don't want to spoiler ;)
951 [16:15:47] <ratrace> no spoiler, no rice!
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953 [16:17:36] <hegemoOn> im solid enough to not be scared by spoiled
954 [16:17:43] <hegemoOn> s/spoiled/spoiler/
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962 [16:24:45] <Surfer2011> hello i have a problem with accessing a mounted usb device
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964 [16:25:04] <EdePopede> hegemoOn, a variant of this one? replaced-url
965 [16:25:18] <EdePopede> Surfer2011: what kind of access?
966 [16:25:34] <Surfer2011> samba access ... but also by ssh
967 [16:25:56] <Surfer2011> /dev/disk/by-label/Datenplatte /srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte ext4 defaults,nofail,user_xattr,usrjquota=aquota.user,grpjquota=aquota.group,jqfmt=vfsv0,acl 0 2
968 [16:26:02] <Surfer2011> this is the fstab entry
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970 [16:26:27] <Surfer2011> drwxr-sr--+ 13 frank familie 4096 Mär 2 21:00 Mediafiles
971 [16:26:27] <Surfer2011> the folder
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974 [16:27:06] <Surfer2011> and this the /etc/group --> familie:x:1000:frank,admin,dom,bene,basti,minidlna
975 [16:27:06] <Surfer2011> want to access it as "dom"
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981 [16:30:03] <jelly> Surfer2011, if you just added dom to group familie, they have to log off, then log back on again via ssh
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983 [16:30:34] <Surfer2011> it is ... as you can see above
984 [16:31:02] <jelly> I can't see whether they've logged off and on from the above output
985 [16:31:19] <Surfer2011> /etc/group --> familie:x:1000:frank,admin,dom,bene,basti,minidlna
986 [16:31:28] <Surfer2011> it has been ever since
987 [16:31:55] <jelly> that only says they're member of group
988 [16:32:01] <Surfer2011> oh sry missread ... dom always has been member of the group ... logged in/out several times
989 [16:32:07] <jelly> okay, good
990 [16:32:57] <jelly> and what happens when they log in any try to "ls -la /srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte/Mediafiles/" ?
991 [16:33:01] <Surfer2011> i'm guessing the fstab above has some whatever strange limitation
992 [16:33:22] <Surfer2011> ls: Öffnen von Verzeichnis '/srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte/Mediafiles/' nicht möglich: Keine Berechtigung
993 [16:33:30] <jelly> !localized errors
994 [16:33:30] <dpkg> To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
995 [16:33:36] <Surfer2011> not possible: no permission (at the ende)
996 [16:33:54] <jelly> mmm. what does "id -a" say as that user
997 [16:34:11] <Surfer2011> id -a
998 [16:34:11] <Surfer2011> uid=1001(dom) gid=100(users) Gruppen=100(users),4(adm),119(minidlna),1000(familie),1001(famadmin)
999 [16:34:16] <jelly> good
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1001 [16:34:50] <jelly> pastebin the output of "LC_ALL=C ls -ld / /srv /srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte /srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte/Mediafiles" as that user
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1003 [16:35:16] <jelly> they need effective x permission for all the directories above, up to /
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1005 [16:36:00] <Surfer2011> replaced-url
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1009 [16:36:57] <jelly> well that looks fine, as far as basic permissions are concerned, but that + means there's also some ACL set
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1011 [16:37:10] <jelly> getfacl /srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte/Mediafiles
1012 [16:37:38] <jelly> install acl package if you don't have the command
1013 [16:38:03] <Surfer2011> replaced-url
1014 [16:38:36] <jelly> you've forbidden group familie access via ACL, I think
1015 [16:38:55] <jelly> do you need those ACL?
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1017 [16:39:24] <Surfer2011> mh the entire debian system is running with openmediavault ... so i assume that's where it came from
1018 [16:39:26] <Surfer2011> so not sure
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1020 [16:40:25] <jelly> at the very least set group mask to r-x
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1022 [16:40:49] <jelly> I... have no idea how that's done, haven't used ACLs in a while
1023 [16:41:35] <Surfer2011> i just checked the GUI of openmediavault and it has Mediafiles read/write for family group
1024 [16:41:40] <jelly> !openmediavault
1025 [16:41:40] <dpkg> OpenMediaVault is a NAS operating system with a web-based control panel. It is <based on Debian> but not supported in #debian. Support can be found at replaced-url
1026 [16:41:53] <Surfer2011> /dev/disk/by-label/Datenplatte /srv/dev-disk-by-label-Datenplatte ext4 defaults,nofail,user_xattr,usrjquota=aquota.user,grpjquota=aquota.group,jqfmt=vfsv0,acl 0 2
1027 [16:41:53] <Surfer2011> is this ok as fstab?
1028 [16:42:20] <jelly> it seems okay if you want xattr and acl and quotas.
1029 [16:42:21] <Surfer2011> because if I chown the entire folder by a different user ... and reboot ... it is "frank - familie" again as owner
1030 [16:42:37] <Surfer2011> folder = Mediafiels
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1032 [16:43:41] <jelly> I have no idea what OMV does with ACL and why. I wouldn't change ownership, as ownership and basic unix permissions seem fine. Fix or remove the ACLs, esp. group ACLs.
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1034 [16:45:21] <deltreey> Klaus_Dieter: so you mean the "standard" iso then? Because there's cinnamon, gnome, kde, lxde, lkqt, mate, standard, and xfce on the downloads page is why I was confused
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1041 [16:52:02] <Klaus_Dieter> deltreey: I always start from the minimal image
1042 [16:52:09] <Klaus_Dieter> which is called netboot, I think
1043 [16:52:17] <Klaus_Dieter> let me verify
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1045 [16:52:57] <jelly> netinst ftw
1046 [16:52:59] <Klaus_Dieter> the netinst image is what I always use deltreey
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1048 [16:53:20] <deltreey> yes, on the netinst page, those are the available images
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1052 [16:54:34] <Klaus_Dieter> that one: replaced-url
1053 [16:54:38] <jelly> deltreey, all the images behave exactly the same except for the default DE. If you uncheck the desktop environment in the task selection, they all result in the same installation
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1056 [16:54:59] <jelly> there is no special server installer
1057 [16:55:01] <deltreey> jelly: sweet, that's exactly what I didn't catch
1058 [16:55:11] <deltreey> thank you all so much!
1059 [16:56:33] <jelly> so uncheck DE, probably check ssh server, and standard tools enabled. Or disable everything and then use apt to only install what you want
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1066 [17:02:39] <Surfer2011> jelly: thanks i found the problem at the ACLs .. which i never set but somehow blocked it thanks for your help :-)
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1070 [17:05:12] <eoli3n_> is debian unstable really a bad idea for a home nas ?
1071 [17:05:26] <eoli3n_> i like the fact that it is rolling, and it has ZFS 2+
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1080 [17:11:02] <Klaus_Dieter> eoli3n_: I use stable for my home nas with zfs
1081 [17:11:11] <eoli3n_> but you use 0.8
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1083 [17:11:14] <eoli3n_> so no zstd
1084 [17:11:19] <eoli3n_> ?
1085 [17:11:47] <eoli3n_> stable is too stable for me, i don't know if i go with testing or unstable
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1087 [17:12:15] <eoli3n_> if this is not so much different, as unstable is rolling i will choose it
1088 [17:12:55] <eoli3n_> i use archlinux/voidlinux as desktop, which are on the edge, in debian testing as one the edge or a bit less/more ?
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1090 [17:13:08] <eoli3n_> as on*
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1092 [17:13:16] <Klaus_Dieter> yes. I am not using a feature that could be available. Of course it is a matter of personal preference. For me a NAS should be reliable and debian stable meets that need.
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1095 [17:13:38] <eoli3n_> i understand that, it will not be only a home nas for me
1096 [17:13:43] <mtn> eoli3n_: neither testing or unstable are meant to be used as a release. they are for making the next stable debian release
1097 [17:13:53] <eoli3n_> qemu/kvm+nas+some containers
1098 [17:14:04] <greycat> Debian is not a rolling release, and does not try to be. Even unstable is more of a playground than anything else, where developers put whatever they feel like putting, whenever they feel like it, *except* for when a freeze is on, as it is now.
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1100 [17:14:13] <pflanze> (karlpinc, FWIW, I implemented with-X as discussed 2d ago here (works fine so far): replaced-url
1101 [17:14:15] <mtn> eoli3n_: neither of them are rolling in the true meaning of the term
1102 [17:14:26] <eoli3n_> hm ok
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1104 [17:14:45] <eoli3n_> zfs 2+ will only be available in the next release or it could be integrated before ?
1105 [17:15:03] <greycat> If it's not in testing right now, it won't be in bullseye when it releases, which will be Soon.
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1107 [17:15:11] <eoli3n_> it is in testing
1108 [17:15:29] <eoli3n_> lets check when bullseye come
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1110 [17:15:42] <kats99> is it possible to stream the contents of your screen to the webcam?
1111 [17:16:13] <greycat> !rc bugs
1112 [17:16:13] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
1113 [17:16:33] <eoli3n_> thanks
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1116 [17:16:48] <eoli3n_> maybe i could go with testing then switch automatically to stable when it releases
1117 [17:16:50] <Klaus_Dieter> kats99: not sure what you mean by "the webcam"
1118 [17:17:13] <kats99> if I switch on my webcam then my screen should be shown to the other party instead of what's in front of the webcam
1119 [17:17:35] <Klaus_Dieter> then you might be looking for virtual webcams with v4l2.
1120 [17:17:44] <Klaus_Dieter> with the v4l2-loopback kernel module
1121 [17:18:07] <kats99> alright thank you
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1123 [17:18:22] <Klaus_Dieter> share the loopback device as if it were your webcam and then feed the data to it - maybe similar to replaced-url
1124 [17:18:42] <kats99> okay
1125 [17:19:48] <Klaus_Dieter> there are a few python tools that attempt to remove background from webcam iamges that sit between the actual webcam and the virtual webcam being shared. the only reason I am not using that is... well my machine is too slow ;)
1126 [17:19:53] <Klaus_Dieter> but sharing desktop is possible as well
1127 [17:20:47] <somiaj> could also just depend on the software you are using, many already have a share screen feature and don't need some virtual webcam
1128 [17:21:47] <eoli3n_> or debian stable with backports for zfs-dkms
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1131 [17:23:00] <kats99> ah it works
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1148 [17:34:49] <rgammans> I'm trying to install debian with a recent deb10u3 debian-installer disk. But the mass storage device show in /dev, and is accessible from dd, but the partition manager in the installer doesn't offer it (/dev/nvme0n1 btw). Is there a trick to make it visible there?
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1154 [17:40:09] <Klaus_Dieter> you can always manually partition and manually execute the steps that happen afterwards
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1158 [17:43:35] <rgammans> Oh, yeah, But I can never remember how to set encrypted-disks up manually. I've had a look, and it seems to have a Intel raid super block ,so I might just zero that see....
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1189 [18:07:18] <rgammans> Hmm. Well if anyones interesting. I deleted a pertition with fdisk (nvme0n1p3 to be exact - the one windows shipped on) and rebooted into the installer and it worked the way I expected..
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1194 [18:09:37] <oxek> rgammans: I would have tested with an uptodate debian installer cd instead
1195 [18:10:18] <sappheiros> can Mac .numbers files be opened with something in Debian?
1196 [18:10:30] <sappheiros> they're appearing as an archive folder
1197 [18:10:49] <oxek> what does `file` report for those files?
1198 [18:10:51] <sney> those are spreadsheets, right? try libreoffice calc
1199 [18:12:11] <sappheiros> wow, it works!
1200 [18:12:26] <sappheiros> i tried opening it two other ways outside of LibreOffice Calc, but opening from within LibreOffice Calc worked.
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1202 [18:12:36] <sappheiros> thanks
1203 [18:12:49] <sney> np
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1205 [18:13:05] <sney> you can change the file association in your DE now that you know it works.
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1211 [18:16:28] <sappheiros> i will search how to do this
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1215 [18:16:48] <sappheiros> or i can figure it out by right-clicking as an experiment :D
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1304 [20:13:01] <eoli3n_> I added debian backport repo, apt update
1305 [20:13:12] <eoli3n_> then apt install zfs-dkms/buster-backports -> no package found
1306 [20:13:17] <eoli3n_> but replaced-url
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1308 [20:13:20] <eoli3n_> what do i miss ?
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1311 [20:14:05] <sney> if you 'apt policy zfs-dkms' do you see the backport version?
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1313 [20:14:27] <eoli3n_> replaced-url
1314 [20:14:38] <eoli3n_> nop
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1316 [20:14:48] <eoli3n_> even with apt search
1317 [20:15:13] <sney> zfs-dkms is not in main, it's in contrib.
1318 [20:15:38] <eoli3n_> ahh ok :)
1319 [20:15:39] <eoli3n_> thanks
1320 [20:15:44] <sney> np
1321 [20:15:51] <sney> if zfs was allowed in main, we wouldn't need dkms :)
1322 [20:16:23] <sney> !contrib
1323 [20:16:23] <dpkg> [contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb replaced-url
1324 [20:16:56] <eoli3n_> working now :) yep
1325 [20:18:07] <eoli3n_> but not with ansible
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1462 [22:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1032
1463 [22:59:37] <jelly> sney, that's not exactly true, we have lots of things in main with mutually incompatible licenses
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1468 [23:02:21] <sney> jelly: alright, it'd be far less likely.
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1487 [23:25:11] <swift110> I would like to remove the whitelist on my t420 thinkpad. How do I do this in debian
1488 [23:25:47] <sney> whitelist for what?
1489 [23:26:11] <PonyBlocks> whitelist for hardware i think hes talking about
1490 [23:26:22] <sney> best if they tell us, rather than we guess
1491 [23:26:27] <swift110> whitelist for wifi to be more specifc
1492 [23:26:32] <PonyBlocks> so he can use hardware that is not in toshibas "whitelist"
1493 [23:26:42] <swift110> correct
1494 [23:26:52] <PonyBlocks> swift110 well then u need to fix the bios
1495 [23:26:58] <PonyBlocks> whitelist is in bios
1496 [23:27:00] <PonyBlocks> not in OS
1497 [23:27:02] <sney> thinkpads are lenovo. I think thinkwiki covers this, you will need to reflash the bios and it's possible to brick your laptop this way
1498 [23:27:15] <PonyBlocks> sney thoshiba lenovo same same
1499 [23:27:18] <sney> lol
1500 [23:27:34] <PonyBlocks> atleast when i was young^^
1501 [23:27:43] <swift110> sney, I am aware of that but i am not understanding the proces, plus the instructions are geared towards people using windows
1502 [23:27:47] <sney> here we go, replaced-url
1503 [23:27:54] <PonyBlocks> thinkpads 4evva thoshiba
1504 [23:27:55] <PonyBlocks> :P
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1506 [23:28:01] <swift110> thanks sney
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1508 [23:28:25] <sney> PonyBlocks: you may be thinking of IBM
1509 [23:28:42] <PonyBlocks> yeah can be
1510 [23:28:43] <PonyBlocks> its late
1511 [23:28:44] <PonyBlocks> now
1512 [23:28:45] <PonyBlocks> lol
1513 [23:29:24] <PonyBlocks> but had simmilar problem when making a hackintosh back in the day, so i needed to find same wifi as in one of the macbooks, stupid mac
1514 [23:29:26] <sney> swift110: windows may still be needed, but you can use a PE rescue environment rather than a full install. do a web search for "windows pe rescue", there are a few options out there.
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1517 [23:31:36] <swift110> awesome
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