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• 2[00:03:06] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: That really doesn't tell me anything. I know LVM doesn't have anything to do with VMs. It's snapshots are point-in-time records of changes made to the machine, so the machine can be rolled back to it's state when snapshotted. Mostly useful when modifying a machine that you may need to back out. Very easy to restore, but if not maintained can grow very large.
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• 5[00:03:45] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: So I know that an LVM snapshot is an LVM snapshot. What I'd like to know is how it's used.
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• 7[00:04:35] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: I've never actually used them, and I've avoided LVM as much as I could until my last job, where we used it to enlarge volumes without downtime.
• 8[00:04:48] <jmcnaught> jhutchins: used as a sort of restore point if you want to be able to reverse something, or used as a frozen point in time to make a backup off of (instead of backing up from the live volume which could lead to inconsistencies)
• 9[00:05:54] <jmcnaught> Actually I do use LVM volumes to store my virtual machines with libvirt, and I will often make a snapshot of the one holding my Windows VM before I do updates on it, or before upgrading its NVIDIA driver, in case I want to roll back.
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• 11[00:08:20] <jmcnaught> At one point I used to keep a master copy of a fresh Debian install in a logical volume, and I had a script that would make a snapshot of the master, use virt-sysprep on it to change hostname and make new SSH host keys, then spin the snapshot volume up as a brand new disposable VM in a matter of seconds.
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• 27[00:32:02] <jhutchins> Ok, so that sounds just like a VMWare snapshot.
• 28[00:33:06] <jmcnaught> A VMWare snapshot probably also stores virtual machine state, like the contents of RAM. Oh and LVM snapshots have a size you define when you create them, and if it fills up it becomes useless.
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• 36[00:47:01] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: It can restore machine state, but the default is just content.
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• 38[00:47:55] <jhutchins> I still don't think I need LVM for anything worth the overhead, but it's good to know what it can do.
• 39[00:48:35] <jhutchins> And yes, there is overhead. At Penton we ran machines where the overhead of LVM would lock them up. We handled a LOT of connections.
• 40[00:49:33] <ndroftheline> tomreyn, if i understood correctly; if want uefi boot (and gpt disks) and don't want to put the bootloader on another disk, then in order to install debian with mdadm (or btrfs) mirroring, i'd need at a minimum each member disk to have an esp partitoin that isn't mirrored, a swap partition that isn't mirrored, and a the root partition; then create an raid1 md device in installer using root partitions, and install bootloader to each of the member
• 41[00:49:33] <ndroftheline> disks...is that right?
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• 43[00:51:19] <ndroftheline> if so, there'd be a manual step of updating grub on the other member disk when, say, a kernel is updated right?
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• 45[00:52:06] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know.
• 46[00:52:46] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: I would guess that a snapshot of a filesystem is the same size as the used portion of the filesystem.
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• 52[00:56:13] <jmcnaught> jhutchins: you choose a size for the snapshot when you create it, and the size is how much difference from the original volume it can store.
• 53[00:57:39] <jhutchins> Hm. Does the size have to exceed the disk space used on the source?
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• 55[00:58:19] <jmcnaught> The size of a snapshot cannot exceed the size of the origin volume.
• 56[00:59:27] <jmcnaught> So if you have a 100GB volume that you want to snapshot, you could make the snapshot 20GB, in which case the snapshot can record up to 20GB worth of changes that were made to the origin volume.
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• 59[01:01:03] <karlpinc> More precisely, you could record changes that affect up to 20GB of the origin volume. (You could re-change 100's of GB, but if that changed only one block on the origin it would use only 1 block on the snapshot.)
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• 67[01:08:46] <karlpinc> ndroftheline: Kinda. There's no point in mirroring esp partitions, you need them on a disk only when you want to boot from the disk. So you don't realyl need more than 1, but might want more just in case so you can boot from another disk. If you do want to boot from multiple disks, yes, you have to install a bootloader on each. And there's no point in mirroring swap partitions. Swap is just scratch space.
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• 70[01:09:58] <ndroftheline> there'll only be one OS on here, debian - but if either drive fails, i'd expect the machine to be able to boot as normal. if there's an esp on only one member drive and that drive is removed, will the system still boot?
• 71[01:10:36] <tomreyn> ndroftheline: i'm only referring to software mirroring. you'd need to leave space for the esp on exactly *one* disk. esp won't be mirrorable as part of a raid if you want to ensure it keeps working. swap can be mirrored, no problem there. while installing, you'd first create partitions (one for esp, one for the raid), set up raid and choose your desired raid level. within the raid you'll setup lvm if you'll need multiple partitions.
• 72[01:10:47] <karlpinc> ndroftheline: No. But exactly how UEFI figures out what disk to use to boot is something I don't know.
• 73[01:10:48] <tomreyn> s/partitions/volumes/
• 74[01:11:29] <karlpinc> ndroftheline: So, I can't say exactly what you need to do when the disk UEFI usually boots from fails.
• 75[01:12:11] <karlpinc> ndroftheline: (To tell it to use your other disk/esp.
• 76[01:12:14] <tomreyn> the mainboard firmware will scan the buses in some order (which can differ by model), and use the first esp on the first drive it finds
• 77[01:12:21] <sney> ESP should be pretty static, so it can be the same on both disks without being explicitly mirrored, right?
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• 79[01:13:18] * ndroftheline laughs having googled "what is esp" forgetting that the world is wide
• 80[01:13:25] <tomreyn> if you want data security, you can manually (or with a script) mirror esp with a systemd service
• 81[01:13:36] <ndroftheline> lol
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• 83[01:14:03] <ndroftheline> i mean, data security. i want operational security more; that if a drive fails and someone reboots the rig at a critical moment it'll still work
• 84[01:14:14] <karlpinc> I don't think mirroring an ESP disk would necessarily work. (But am not really up on the details.) If there's something that says "go to this block of this disk to finish loading the OS" you don't want that copied between disks. Each disk should load the kernel, etc., that is on itself. Not on some other disk that might have failed.
• 85[01:16:55] <tomreyn> sure, mirroring an esp partition works, as long as path to it in NVRAM / efibootmgr string remains workable.
• 86[01:17:45] <tomreyn> if it differs, you can also setup multiple targets and it will just use the first it finds (in case you removed disks)
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• 88[01:18:51] <karlpinc> tomreyn: So how does an esp partition encode where to find the initrd so that it can go find that initrd on multiple partitions, which it would need to do if the first partition it looks at is on a failed disk.
• 89[01:18:53] <karlpinc> ?
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• 91[01:19:31] <karlpinc> tomreyn: Is that what "multiple targets" is about?
• 92[01:19:48] * karlpinc needs to re-read the uefi boot process.
• 93[01:19:52] <tomreyn> karlpinc: the esp doesn't do this, it's just the loacation the boot loader gets loaded from
• 94[01:20:11] <tomreyn> it's up to the boot loader to decide what gets loaded next, and where from
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• 96[01:21:25] <karlpinc> tomreyn: Well, the grub boot loader has a disk/block recorded in it that says where to get the initrd. So you don't want the same grub boot loader image on each disk, or it will always look at a single disk to find the initrd. So, you can't mirror the esp, because that copies the boot loader. Is my logic right?
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• 101[01:24:19] <karlpinc> Come to think of it, grub (2) is (iirc) sophisticated enough to try to find the initrd multiple times. In which case you could, with the right grub config, mirror the esp.
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• 103[01:25:13] <karlpinc> Unless there's strangeness with how grub finds disks when some disk has disappeared, in which case it might start looking in the wrong places.
• 104[01:26:50] <karlpinc> Aack. This is the kind of thing where you have to pay attention to all the fiddly details. And I don't want to pay attention at all this hot minute. (But would be happy to be schooled by someone else. :-)
• 105[01:26:52] <tomreyn> karlpinc: you could have multiple copies of grub64.efi on the same esp, or on differnet ESPs, with the same or different configurations for where to load the next part from.
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• 107[01:27:39] <karlpinc> tomreyn: I know you can do it with different configurations, one for each esp. What would be interesting is to have a single grub config to use on all esps.
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• 110[01:28:48] <karlpinc> tomreyn: Then you could mirror the esps. Or at least that would be the point. No fussing about with re-installing grub on each disk every kernel upgrade.
• 111[01:29:01] <tomreyn> as long as it can point to something that will be reachable to it, no problem. but that's the difficultpart, if you usually refer to that by UUIDs, which you don't want reproduced across devices
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• 113[01:29:47] <ndroftheline> man i kinda got the impression that mirrored system drives using mdadm or btrfs was a solved problem based on how firmly i was directed to use it instead of fakeraid. sounds like not. exciting
• 114[01:29:49] <karlpinc> my brain is full.
• 115[01:30:06] <tomreyn> with a mirror raid you can have the same fs uuid across multiple deivces, of course.
• 116[01:30:11] <karlpinc> fakeraid is ungood all the way around.
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• 118[01:32:46] <ndroftheline> idk man it sounds pretty ideal for the uefi implementation on the system to just boot from the raid which it can read...right? neatly gets around the to mirror or not to mirror issue, should leav a consistent working system. and uses mdadm anyway since mdadm speaks fakeraid...it's just that d-i does something weird with my fakeraid
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• 120[01:34:03] <ndroftheline> anyway, i'm fully prepared to accept that fakeraid bad, but i have tried and failed several times now to use the "more common" methods of mdadm and btrfs...but run into this esp/bootloader mirroring issue, where if a drive fails and the system reboots, i've got a 50% chance of it not coming back up.
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• 129[01:50:13] <j5v1> im running a debian VM, and have a bash script that will get the most recent list of packages and start installing packages, but when running it I get an error that the packages are not available
• 130[01:50:43] <j5v1> any idea whats going on here?
• 131[01:51:03] <j5v1> im able to install the package after this script ends, but not while the script is executing the first time
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• 133[01:53:30] <somiaj> j5v1: Might dependon the package, which package is not available?
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• 135[01:54:10] <j5v1> trying to install nodejs
• 136[01:54:24] <j5v1> which is available, and I can install it right after the script finishes and I drop back into the shell
• 137[01:54:33] <j5v1> but not able to install it automatically from the script
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• 139[01:56:01] <somiaj> j5v1: could it be that an apt update wasn't ran after any changes to sources.list so apt doesn't know about said packages but later in the script that changes?
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• 141[01:57:33] <j5v1> i run `sudo apt update` and `sudo apt upgrade` at the beginning of the script
• 142[01:57:46] <j5v1> later on I run the `sudo apt-get install` command in the script
• 143[01:57:52] <j5v1> so it should be updated
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• 167[02:23:08] <ndroftheline> urgh. so, way back when i was still trying to get debian to run off the fakeraid someone asked me to show a copy of the mdadm.conf from a working centos running on this same hardware. i didn't have the exact hardware running centos. but i just finished installing centos 7 on the fakeraid and booting, and it looks fine. here's the mdadm.conf: replaced-url
• 168[02:24:50] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: nifker)
• 169[02:25:34] <ndroftheline> for reference, this is the mdadm from the debian install: replaced-url
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• 171[02:26:17] <ndroftheline> i have recreated the rste volume since then, which is why it's named rste_vol1 instead of rste_volume0
• 172[02:27:19] <somiaj> wonder if that AUTO line is needed, seems to set up options for your fakeraid (I only partially followed what was going on, I just recall those options being mentioned)
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• 174[02:28:40] <sney> the idea was to compare it with what debian was doing, but I agree that there is probably some important mojo in the centos conf file
• 175[02:29:10] <sney> md126/md127 nodes tend to imply that the array was autodetected, rather than set up explicitly from mdadm.conf
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• 184[02:45:17] <ndroftheline> it would be pretty funny if it's just that line
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• 197[03:04:15] <impermanence> when I `ip route add foo via bar` are these stored to a file anywhere or to /proc or?
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• 203[03:09:47] <somiaj> impermanence: What is your goal here? You can see them with ip route.
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• 206[03:11:46] <impermanence> somiaj: yeah I mean fair enough. I was thinking I might include in a demo where routes are stored. seems like it's /proc/net/route or whatever.
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• 209[03:14:11] <somiaj> impermanence: yea, I was going to say I found /proc/net/route, though to me they are just stored in memeory
• 210[03:14:28] <impermanence> somiaj: right on.
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• 225[03:42:21] <ndroftheline> nah, that line didn't seem to change the behaviour. debian booted from a member disk. the array isn't assembled.
• 226[03:43:07] <sney> weird
• 227[03:44:04] <ndroftheline> there's nothign in dmesg about md
• 228[03:44:24] <sney> I wonder if it's a kernel regression
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• 230[03:47:01] <ndroftheline> where would i go to report a possible problem like that?
• 231[03:48:21] <sney> first you would try to narrow it down, and then you would use the 'reportbug' tool to report it, probably against mdadm or linux itself
• 232[03:48:37] <sney> all of this testing has been with debian buster, right? have you tried bullseye?
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• 234[03:54:42] <ndroftheline> i have not tried bullseye, no. i can't use bullseye, the app we're going to run on this specifies buster.
• 235[03:54:47] <ndroftheline> i can try it though
• 236[03:55:39] <ndroftheline> would i be able to boot into a bullseye installer using the same netinst iso?
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• 238[03:55:55] <ndroftheline> nope
• 239[03:56:08] <sney> you would need to download it from replaced-url
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• 246[04:04:47] <ndroftheline> well while i wait for that to download (lol) i decided to try and install centos8...but it just failed to initiate the software raid too, i saw the message as it booted. so it might in fact be a kernel regression.
• 247[04:10:04] <ndroftheline> then again, might have been spurious. fakeraid volume showed up fine and is now installing.
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• 251[04:18:27] <sney> even centos 8 is on an older kernel than buster, so it's still on the table
• 252[04:22:13] <ndroftheline> oh, yeh i should have checked that first ey
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• 254[04:23:20] <ndroftheline> yeh centos8 seems to handle it correctly as well.
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• 257[04:30:32] <ndroftheline> exciting. in bullseye it's maybe "more" broken than in buster
• 258[04:31:19] <ndroftheline> in buster, having created the fakeraid volume in bios, it shows up as an installable device to the installer.
• 259[04:31:45] <ndroftheline> in bullseye it doesn't even show up until i call mdadm -As
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• 305[05:45:24] <Razva> Hello. Except Uyuni (which is based on SUSE) and Ubuntu Landscape (which is very expensive) do you know any (free/very cheap) central dashboard with a WebUI that can monitor multiple servers updates?
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• 312[05:57:23] <somiaj> !free whcp
• 313[05:57:23] <dpkg> FOSS Web Hosting Control Panels include: <DTC>, <GNUPanel>, <ISPConfig> and <ispCP> Omega. Don't use <Webmin>. replaced-url
• 314[05:57:35] <somiaj> Maybe look at those
• 315[06:00:28] <Razva> yeah those are great for servers one by one, but none of them shows a central space where it just states "here are all the servers, here are all the updates".
• 316[06:00:37] <Razva> just for my curiosity, why not webmin?
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• 322[06:08:05] <somiaj> !webmin
• 323[06:08:05] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
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• 325[06:09:30] <somiaj> I think many people just don't like web based control pannels when there are often real decent command line tools for this that don't expose your server control to the web.
• 326[06:09:48] <somiaj> though I don't know a solution to your problem, I wasn't sure if any of the whcp would work on multiple servers or not.
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• 328[06:12:48] <somiaj> though stick around, others here do use various tools to control multiple servers and should have more experience and better responses to something that might suit your needs.
• 329[06:13:05] <somiaj> I hear various people mention ansible here, seems that has a webbased ui
• 330[06:14:19] <somiaj> maybe something such as replaced-url
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• 332[06:15:10] <nkuttler> Razva: saltstack also has an api, and there is a saltgui tool which is a web frontend
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• 334[06:15:31] <nkuttler> if you have the resources you could also build your own on top of any config management that has an api..
• 335[06:15:58] <somiaj> I have known people who have also used zabbix has a tool to monotor multiple servers, though unsure if it provides a webbased ui for this
• 336[06:16:30] <nkuttler> it certainly has a web frontend, not sure though about running upgrades through it
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• 338[06:17:10] <somiaj> yea, Ravza might have to decide how much they want to just have a central monitor vs a full control pannel, or maybe a combination.
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• 340[06:18:55] <Razva> thank you very much for the recommendations!
• 341[06:19:18] <Razva> currently I'm monitoring with Zabbix, which is great, but doesn't has any kind of "click here to update" option
• 342[06:19:30] <Razva> I'm currently looking into Ansible and Salt
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• 378[07:23:36] <McErroneous> "feel free to join , ##Debian_unsupported (I have not clue on how to administer a channel)"
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• 471[09:34:05] <Lope> Let's say I can run 3 SSD's in gen3 Raid 0 (RAID0 of 3 SSD's) OR 3 SSD's in Gen3 plus 1 in Gen2 (RAID0 of 4 SSD'
• 472[09:34:07] <Lope> s)
• 473[09:34:11] <Lope> what would be faster?
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• 480[09:45:17] <lupulo> that seems like debian ssd testing
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• 488[10:09:27] <jelly> Lope, what does "Gen3" or "Gen3 plus 1 in Gen2" mean?
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• 496[10:21:20] <Lope> PCI-E comes in different generations, each one transfers data at a diff speed.
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• 500[10:25:55] <jelly> do you expect each single device to saturate the PCIe links? How many links each uses is important
• 501[10:26:15] <Lope> storage workloads vary
• 502[10:26:27] <jelly> this is more a question for ##hardware
• 503[10:26:32] <Lope> some workloads might saturate the links, other workloads are random and do not saturate the links.
• 504[10:26:35] <Lope> All good.
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• 506[10:27:53] <jelly> no simple answer, multiply your links and generation, look at the theoretical numbers, and try to find exactly how PCIe is connected on your board
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• 520[10:48:19] <brigand> hi. how do i grep for "$a"?
• 521[10:49:25] <TheBigK> grep \$a ?
• 522[10:49:37] <TheBigK> or do u want to include "" as well
• 523[10:50:32] <brigand> no, just $a
• 524[10:50:50] <brigand> but \$a doesn't work for me. but i have grep -Ei set as an alias for grep
• 525[10:50:51] <jelly> brigand, grep '\$a'
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• 527[10:51:08] <jelly> $ has a special meaning in regex syntax.
• 528[10:51:10] <brigand> jelly: thank you
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• 530[10:52:30] <jelly> grep -F '$a' would have worked, but grep uses RE by default (basic RE), and -E uses ERE, both BRE and ERE use $ to mean "place at the end of string"
• 531[10:53:02] <brigand> ah, right
• 532[10:53:34] <brigand> so is setting -F instead of -E better?
• 533[10:53:58] <jelly> that really depends on the exact thing you're looking for
• 534[10:54:08] <brigand> yeah
• 535[10:54:31] <jelly> if you need extended RE, use -E. If you NEED case insensitivity, use -i
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• 537[10:54:38] <tuxinator> Hi guys
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• 539[10:54:51] <tuxinator> Any reason why the Changelog link on replaced-url
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• 541[10:55:04] <tuxinator> asked the same in #Ubuntu as they use your package
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• 543[10:55:22] <tuxinator> forgot to mention on stretch
• 544[10:55:23] <jelly> brigand, if you need to search for a specific substring and don't need regex, use -F
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• 546[10:56:24] <brigand> jelly: thank you
• 547[10:56:29] <jelly> tuxinator, it's a long standing issue, try this: replaced-url
• 548[10:56:46] <tuxinator> oh, thx for pointing this out!
• 549[10:57:03] <jelly> tuxinator, click on the second icon next to the right version below "versioned links"
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• 551[10:57:26] <jelly> replaced-url
• 552[10:57:58] <tuxinator> Thank you so much!
• 553[10:58:50] <jelly> tracker.debian.org/packagename ought to work as well
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• 555[11:01:29] <ceegee> hi, is there a way to perform apt(-get) upgrade without restarting updated daemons?
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• 566[11:08:31] <oxek> jelly: thanks, I didn't know changelogs for security updates were available through that workaround
• 567[11:09:06] <oxek> ceegee: they shouldn't restart automatically
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• 569[11:09:53] <oxek> if you have needrestart package installed, you'll get a prompt
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• 572[11:11:57] <jelly> dpkg, tell ceegee -about policy-rc.d
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• 575[11:13:04] <jelly> oxek, most services DO get stopped in the prerm pre-upgrade step, packages upgraded, then started in new version's postinst configure
• 576[11:13:42] <ceegee> oxek: but they do. I tried it just a few minutes ago. puppet agent does restart, postgres also.
• 577[11:14:12] <ceegee> I would like to patch our systems during workhours but do the restarts afterwards
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• 581[11:19:24] <oxek> jelly: oh really? that's odd, I must be remembering it wrong.
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• 589[11:26:22] <ceegee> jelly: so /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d is a file and not a folder as ususal by the .d naming convention? its a bit confusing
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• 592[11:29:06] <ceegee> ok, makes sense because its located under /usr/sbin
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• 598[11:44:40] <FightingFalcon> anyone using bitwise SSH client?
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• 628[12:13:26] <FightingFalcon> anyone using bitwise SSH client?
• 629[12:13:29] <FightingFalcon> sorry i was offline
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• 634[12:18:02] <ratrace> !anyone
• 635[12:18:03] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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• 637[12:19:57] <FightingFalcon> Can you bookmark a remote folder with Bitwise SFTP?
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• 665[13:01:50] <oxek> is there an easy way of finding out which ones of my currently installed packages have an update available in backports?
• 666[13:02:17] <oxek> I'm thinking of increasing the pin of backports repo to some high value and then do `apt list --upgradable`
• 667[13:02:21] <oxek> but perhaps there's a better way
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• 680[13:16:32] <ratrace> oxek: why do you even pin? you can install specific packages from backports using apt install -t buster-backports <package> . After that, it'll automatically upgrade if there's newer version, for regular `apt upgrade` (without -t)
• 681[13:18:01] <oxek> ratrace: I know that, I just want to discover which packages have versions in backports, without upgrading to those packages.
• 682[13:18:26] <ratrace> apt upgrade -s -t buster-backports ?
• 683[13:18:27] <oxek> i.e. something equivalent to `apt list --installed --has-a-version-in-backports`
• 684[13:18:45] <oxek> oh
• 685[13:19:05] <oxek> I didn't know that would work, thanks
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• 692[13:26:29] <oxek> ratrace: thanks it does exactly what I need. I didn't think of this combination.
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• 703[13:34:11] <ratrace> oxek: npp
• 704[13:34:17] <ratrace> *np
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• 754[14:14:00] <McErroneous> Is it known, that mounding a local repository via NFS.., is breaking some of apt-get features ?
• 755[14:16:36] <McErroneous> I did not know .., until some weeks ago..., apparently APT is designed to work properly via ftp or http, but not via local mounted filesystems..., right ?
• 756[14:17:23] <McErroneous> well at least "apt-get -d install" wont download files to /var/cache/apt/archives...
• 757[14:17:43] <McErroneous> but it would report successful download...
• 758[14:17:59] <McErroneous> my question , where did the file go ?
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• 763[14:23:57] <oxek> McErroneous: apt runs under its own user, so that might be a problem for NFS
• 764[14:25:49] <McErroneous> idk..
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• 767[14:27:39] <jelly> McErroneous, what does the deb line for your repo look like?
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• 775[14:31:10] <McErroneous> cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hdd_repo.list
• 776[14:31:30] <McErroneous> :
• 777[14:31:32] <McErroneous> :!
• 778[14:31:34] <McErroneous> !:
• 779[14:31:42] <jelly> !paste
• 780[14:31:42] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
• 781[14:31:56] <McErroneous> it is a single line.
• 782[14:32:12] <McErroneous> but i forget how to get the output in irssi
• 783[14:32:29] <jelly> just copy/paste from another terminal
• 784[14:33:00] <jelly> later, you can learn about /exec -o cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hdd_repo.list
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• 786[14:33:28] <McErroneous> deb file:/mnt/hdd/MyCB/repository/auto/i386_full/mirror/ftp.us.debian.org/debian squeeze main contrib non-free
• 787[14:34:13] <jelly> that seems like valid syntax
• 788[14:35:31] <jelly> apt will still download the .deb files, ie. copy them from the repo into /var/cache/apt/archives, as needed
• 789[14:35:51] <jelly> the obvious optimization isn't done
• 790[14:35:51] <McErroneous> jelly: nope, it didnt...
• 791[14:35:56] <jelly> !bat
• 792[14:35:56] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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• 794[14:36:29] <jelly> McErroneous, if something is failing with apt, follow the steps above
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• 796[14:37:38] <McErroneous> maybe at some point in future.., i am not familiar with aptitude..., nor have i ever used "apt-cache policy" - command...
• 797[14:37:40] <oxek> a lot has changed in apt between squeeze and buster/bullseye, so it might be something strange
• 798[14:38:39] <jelly> McErroneous, apt-get/apt/aptitude means "whichever command you used"
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• 805[14:41:12] <McErroneous> ok thanks.., right now , it is not much of a concern to me. i should have used ftp straight away...., but i wasn't aware of ...this
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• 812[14:44:45] <McErroneous> i think "ftp" could deliver a higher throughput on this 266 MHZ NAS with Gigabit-port..., (10MB/sec)
• 813[14:45:11] <jelly> look, if you want help, you have to answer our questions and provide info
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• 816[14:45:37] <McErroneous> all right.., see ya ..
• 817[14:45:52] <ratrace> you can't get more than 266 bits per second on a 266 MHz cpu. in fact, due to nyquist frequency etc... the theoretical max is half of that, let alone any processing of those packets
• 818[14:46:01] <ratrace> 266 MBps (mega bits, I mean)
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• 821[14:46:51] <jelly> maybe the obvious optimization is done after all
• 822[14:47:36] <jelly> Get:1 file:/net/mirror/debian stretch/main i386 vim-gtk i386 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u3 [1327 kB]
• 823[14:47:36] <jelly> Download complete and in download only mode
• 824[14:47:46] <jelly> (not downloaded, really)
• 825[14:47:53] <oxek> ratrace: is that a joke?
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• 828[14:51:18] <ratrace> oxek: not at all
• 829[14:51:41] <oxek> things have not been running in lockstep for a while
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• 831[14:52:07] <oxek> plus there's DMA and all sorts of other things
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• 833[14:53:25] <ratrace> but for 266 MHz gen cpus?
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• 840[14:58:58] <oxek> it's probably some mips/arm machine, and that's the lowest clockspeed
• 841[14:59:14] <oxek> I seriously doubt they are running some pentium II
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• 845[15:01:34] <ratrace> dunno. I've seen people repurpose old machines found in the attic or basement :)
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• 848[15:02:02] <ratrace> I think there's even an ATARI ST server online serving a single page...
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• 850[15:03:14] <oxek> true, it is possible
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• 852[15:06:19] <imMute> ratrace: why do you assume the CPU can only move one bit per cycle?
• 853[15:06:42] <imMute> ratrace: also, nyquist doesn't apply as there's no analog signal involved.
• 854[15:09:18] <oxek> back in my day, CPU communicated using sound waves with the other components
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• 922[16:39:51] <wwilliam> how do i do pscp.pssg from remot to local?
• 923[16:40:02] <wwilliam> pscp.pssh*
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• 958[17:25:11] <pflanze> Is there a tool, that, called without env vars for an X session (e.g. from crontab), finds an active X session of the current user and sets the environment variables correspondingly?
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• 962[17:26:45] <pflanze> To be called something like `with-X mycmd arg1 arg2`.
• 963[17:28:02] <karlpinc> pflanze: I don't really know dbus, but that sounds like something to use dbus for.
• 964[17:28:06] <pflanze> Finding the X session isn't so trivial as reading from "xauth list" there might be multiple, in which case it's about figuring out which one is most likely to be seen.
• 965[17:28:57] <karlpinc> pflanze: Send to all of them?
• 966[17:29:45] <pflanze> If it's just about messages, perhaps. But mycmd might be something somewhat more complex.
• 967[17:29:46] <karlpinc> pflanze: Or, if you want to guarentee delivery, send an email. :-)
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• 970[17:30:10] <pflanze> It's not just about sending a message.
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• 972[17:31:54] <pflanze> Even if in my current case it "is", I consciously do *not* want to send a desktop notification as those disappear into the void if unseen for a bit.
• 973[17:32:29] <pflanze> And I don't want to send mail as I won't see that quickly.
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• 975[17:33:19] <karlpinc> pflanze: Ok. So send a text. The services are very cheap. You just have to know that SMS texts will "mostly get there".
• 976[17:33:58] <pflanze> I've set DISPLAY explicitly forever in some scripts and it works fine for me, but I'm tired of scripting it myself badly. It should exist.
• 977[17:34:43] <pflanze> I don't like my phone and don't have it with me, I don't always see SMS even if I do; I sit at my desktop and want to see it there.
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• 981[17:36:04] <karlpinc> pflanze: Write something that "always runs" when you're logged in. Talk to it; tell it to put up a dialog box or something. You _could_ use incron....
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• 984[17:36:35] <karlpinc> pflanze: Probably better to write to a socket.
• 985[17:37:21] <pflanze> Could do. But I think I'd rather just write with-X myself.
• 986[17:38:13] <karlpinc> pflanze: I don't like the guessing part of your design. But whatever works for you.
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• 988[17:40:26] <pflanze> My thought is to just walk /proc/\d+/environ and count how many times a session is used. I'm not even sure why I have a second session in xauth right now. Will find out.
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• 1000[17:52:08] <pflanze> "notify-send -u critical $msg" actually makes the notification stay around longer, no idea whether forever.
• 1001[17:52:17] <pflanze> But the lol part is that it also needs DISPLAY.
• 1002[17:52:59] <pflanze> (or does it? Double checking.)
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• 1009[17:55:55] <pflanze> (Yep it does. Otherwise it *silently* fails.)
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• 1066[19:02:36] <deadrom> hi
• 1067[19:03:13] <deadrom> when I use the -c / --checksum option on rsync, does it calc *all* checksums before starting to copy?
• 1068[19:04:36] <deadrom> I ran rsync -axcHAWX --info=progress2 /mnt/storage /mnt/newstorage/ -- rsync stays silent despite the progress2 option and dstat -d show plenty reads but no writes
• 1069[19:05:58] <somiaj> deadrom: from manpage, "Generating the checksums means that both sides will expend a lot of disk I/O reading all the data in the files in the transfer (and this is prior to any reading that will be done to transfer changed files), so this can slow things down significantly."
• 1070[19:06:44] <somiaj> so yes all the checksums are computed before any copying is done as it determines what to copy
• 1071[19:07:31] <deadrom> "prior to any reading that will be done to transfer changed files" <- I know man pages can be hard, but that's just plain disgusting
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• 1073[19:07:45] <deadrom> ok, that's gonna take ages. thanks
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• 1076[19:11:18] <deadrom> any quicker method of transfering old disk to new disk both locally in the same machine safely? I was thinking to just ddrescue old new and expand the fs. If there are any errors along the way ddrescue would tell me, wouldn't it?
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• 1078[19:13:09] <somiaj> If your filesystem is fairly empty, copying the files will be quicker just due to the size of the copy. And yes, ddrescue (or even dd or cp) will let you know if there are any errors in reading/writing the data.
• 1079[19:13:24] <somiaj> oh wait, grr, sorry got you confused with someone else..
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• 1083[19:14:45] <deadrom> nah, disks is pretty full. ddrecscue is an option. cp -a did not go so well, left me with different md5sums for a handful of files when due to crappy connections the disk had sata link resets in between
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• 1085[19:15:59] <somiaj> ahh so trying to rescue from a failing disk? Unsure there, I have a disk that I want to get data off of that just has to many i/o errors.
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• 1087[19:16:47] <deadrom> so the disks are fine, I *think*, I just used a pice of drive swap cage and I think that extra connection was not so cool
• 1088[19:17:17] <somiaj> I'm unsure if ddrescue will have any better luck if your getting i/o errors resets, I would first try a better connection.
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• 1090[19:17:42] <merazi> hallo :-)
• 1091[19:17:45] <deadrom> that I addressed already. will monitor messages along
• 1092[19:17:50] <somiaj> though I haven't used ddrescue, so unsure if it has better error checking to ensure a copy, will keep retrying if it encounters an error.
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• 1104[19:29:02] <EdePopede> does debian come with something more sophisticated than Mediainfo to show some basic structures of media files?
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• 1129[19:48:54] <karlpinc> EdePopede: You could try using debtags to search. (But I don't see tags attached to mediainfo so can't say what the right tag would be.)
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• 1135[19:50:08] <EdePopede> karlpinc: you're right, didn't think of them right now. i'll look for some related packages and see what they come with.
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• 1138[19:52:26] <jhutchins> EdePopede: replaced-url
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• 1143[19:54:40] <jpmh> It seems that Debian does not have all the up-to-date code pagesfor unicode that Ubuntu has - am I missing something, code 1f966 for example works fin on Ubuntu and does not dislay the empji on Debian - older unicode charaters such as 00e9 are fine
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• 1148[19:56:13] <EdePopede> jhutchins: doublethanks. besides reminding me of alternativeto, the 1st hit is GSpot and i couldn't remember its name for years now. used it on XP, pretty nice tool.
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• 1159[20:08:21] <karlpinc> jpmh: I install the "unifont" package. But there may be others. For the "latest", you might need to upgrade to bullseye.
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• 1161[20:09:03] <warsoul> what tools i can used to make my own distro debian based?
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• 1163[20:09:16] <karlpinc> jpmh: As a rule, Debian does not install a whole lot of stuff by default.
• 1164[20:10:22] <karlpinc> warsoul: Copy the Debian installer, rename it, and put it on your web page? This is not really the right channel to ask. This is for those who need help with Debian itself.
• 1165[20:10:32] <oxek> EdePopede: if you find some neat alternative to mediainfo, please post it here. I am quite happy with mediainfo, but am always looking for good tools.
• 1166[20:11:09] <oxek> I do mediainfo, and then view info in mpv & vlc, and then maybe exiftool
• 1167[20:11:45] <oxek> and of course you all forget about gspot...
• 1168[20:12:02] <karlpinc> file O;-)
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• 1170[20:14:27] <jpmh> karlpinc: ty so much - superficial tesing seems to indicate that is all I needed
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• 1174[20:18:45] <karlpinc> jpmh: Read the description of the unifont package. It does not do everything "right", the goal is to display _something_ for every glyph.
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• 1176[20:19:52] <jpmh> karlpinc: TY - as long as it does as much as Ubuntu doesI'll be happy - we are trying to transition from Ubuntu to Debian and this is one of the evry few issues we have found
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• 1181[20:22:49] <jhutchins> oxek: You might be interested in the link I posted. It lists at least ten alternatives (not sure all are linux).
• 1182[20:22:58] <karlpinc> jpmh: The other "big one", imo, is using the unofficial installer with non-free firmware included to do the installs. Just makes it easier. (See the <firmware images> factoid.)
• 1183[20:23:20] <jhutchins> oxek: If you search "mediainfo alternative" you'll get plenty of hits.
• 1184[20:23:55] <jpmh> jhutchins: to us that is not a problem, We have to be PCI compliant and are audited so we generally are somewhat disinclined to rab too much
• 1185[20:25:02] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 1186[20:25:02] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
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• 1188[20:28:19] <oxek> jhutchins: it lists alternatives, yes, but I like the further refinement of 1) being available in debian 2) actually working in debian
• 1189[20:28:29] <oxek> which is not something one finds on websites usually
• 1190[20:28:36] <oxek> and if one does, then it is usually many years old
• 1191[20:29:14] <oxek> or the sadder cases of 'has been available in debian at some point, but was removed'
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• 1200[20:34:11] <EdePopede> karlpinc: file only returns 'data' for mpeg2 TS ;)
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• 1202[20:34:37] <oxek> oh right I also use `file`
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• 1211[20:47:16] <jhutchins> oxek: You'll have to work a little harder then.
• 1212[20:47:42] <jhutchins> oxek: Maybe figure out how to use existing Debian tools.
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• 1216[20:50:10] <oxek> I could work harder, yes, but I could also try to rely a bit more on others when they are already on the quest of finding a suitable tool - and at the end of their journey of discovery they can let me know what they found, if anything. Which is exactly what I did :)
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• 1234[21:00:48] <Walex2> oxek: 'apt-cache search' is often useful, or packages.debian.org, and then you can check the results further
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• 1263[21:34:12] <karlpinc> !search
• 1264[21:34:12] <dpkg> Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. «apt-cache search regex», or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): «dpkg -S /bin/foo», <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and «/msg judd help file» (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See replaced-url
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• 1298[22:01:26] <longshot> Is there anything I can do to find out why a filesystem is busy?
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• 1303[22:03:06] <greycat> fuser, lsof
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• 1305[22:03:50] <greycat> ,file bin/fuser
• 1306[22:03:56] <judd> Search for bin/fuser in buster/amd64: psmisc: bin/fuser
• 1307[22:05:05] <greycat> specifically, fuser -m /mountpoint
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• 1342[22:42:03] <DJAnonimo> hello. is there possible that debian 11 sometimes do a scan on boot time? I dont have display attached I just see HDD led is on
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• 1344[22:42:46] <sney> there is a filesystem check run at every boot, but usually it exits within a few seconds if the journal reports no issues
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• 1348[22:45:47] <greycat> A longer scan will be performed every X days or every Y mounts, by default. I don't know the values of X and Y.
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• 1351[22:46:29] <greycat> Ideally you should see this in your journalctl once the system is up, if it did happen.
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• 1363[22:51:04] <jhutchins> ,checkbackport calibre
• 1364[22:51:27] <jhutchins> !checkbackport calibre
• 1365[22:51:31] <judd> Backporting package calibre in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), poppler-utils (>= 0.85.0), pyqt5-dev (>= 5.15.0+dfsg-1+exp1~), python3-mechanize, python3-py7zr, python3-pyqt5.qtwebengine (>= 5.12.1-4+b1), python3-pyqtbuild, python3-sipbuild, qtbase5-dev (>= 5.12), sip-tools.
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• 1370[22:58:00] <sney> jhutchins: probably fastest to test it in a bullseye vm
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• 1374[23:00:33] <incal> o/ [SML] I tried to do the simplest, almost, of grammars, just to add two integers, but didn't do that right as reports errors after compile (-m), here is the file, what do you think? replaced-url
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• 1411[23:36:34] <jhutchins> sney: That's a thought.
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• 1414[23:37:57] <jhutchins> sney: What's your pick for VM systems? I use VirtualBox on Windows to run Linux machines, worked great.
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• 1432[23:53:01] <DJAnonimo> greycat: how to disable scanning every X reboot? how is this called?
• 1433[23:53:07] <DJAnonimo> i'm googing without luck
• 1434[23:54:07] <ratrace> DJAnonimo: what scan?
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• 1437[23:54:45] <DJAnonimo> on boot
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• 1439[23:55:03] <DJAnonimo> I think that my debian 11 sometimes run a disk scan at startup
• 1440[23:55:11] <DJAnonimo> I dont have a display but I see HDD LED is active
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• 1442[23:56:19] <abrotman> scanning your filesystem?
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• 1444[23:56:41] <DJAnonimo> yes
• 1445[23:56:50] <DJAnonimo> I know that something like this exists
• 1446[23:56:59] <DJAnonimo> when I installed linux really long long time ago
• 1447[23:57:00] <abrotman> what is the filesystem type?
• 1448[23:58:43] <DJAnonimo> the one is preinstalled on raspberry PI image
• 1449[23:58:43] <ratrace> DJAnonimo: if you're talking about fsck, iirc you can disable that by setting 0 in the last column of the fstab
• 1450[23:58:57] <DJAnonimo> I dont gave PC conencted to the netwoek now
• 1451[23:58:59] <abrotman> DJAnonimo: ext3? ext4? xfs?
• 1452[23:59:06] <abrotman> tune2fs is another method
• 1453[23:59:09] <DJAnonimo> replaced-url
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