35[00:33:26] <[E]sc> my internet connection periodically disconnects. i'm not sure why, and i have to manually restart NetworkingManager.service. Is there a fix for this?
58[00:45:39] *** Quits: ledeni (~ledeni@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
59[00:47:14] <[E]sc> sney: dlink systems.
60[00:47:24] <somiaj> sappheiros: Might want to start with what install medium did you use? How did you copy it to the usb drive? And what was the error/failure point, and we can help.
67[00:50:43] <sappheiros> somiaj: USB installer, couldn't get an HDMI signal to my monitor from my graphics card; CPU and DRAM lights red on the motherboard, wondering if i broke the CPU without realizing it by pushing hard to attach the heatsink latches
68[00:51:19] <somiaj> sappheiros: okay, back to the questions I actually asked. Whick install image? How did you copy it to the usb?
69[00:51:40] <somiaj> sappheiros: Also, does your machine even POST?
72[00:52:06] <[E]sc> tor browser connects though. chrome comes and goes. youtube on chrome fails sometimes, but connects with tor, sometimes youtube-dl doesn't connect.
74[00:52:27] <sappheiros> no POST beeps, and i used the version 10 USB image from the debian site
75[00:53:12] <sney> [E]sc: is the wifi access point in your control? beacon issues can sometimes be solved by disabling 802.11b at that end (so you only support 802.11g and up)
76[00:54:04] <[E]sc> sney: let me see try that.
77[00:54:22] <sney> it's also *possible* that the newer kernel in buster-backports might have some iwlwifi improvements, but I'd look at the router first
79[00:55:28] <somiaj> sappheiros: yea sounds like your problem is hardware first, until you can get your machine to POST and get into its firmware/bios, I wouldn't worry about installing anything.
80[00:55:58] <sappheiros> right, that's why i messaged inbe4 in #offtopic since it was about hardware
81[00:56:11] <sappheiros> *responded to inbe4 (not /msg)
99[01:13:02] <segamain> Does anybody here know a good hardware channel (freenode ##hardware doesn't count it's not helpful) This is not cross posting I've already asked on oftc and got no helpful answers
117[01:20:28] <segamain> abortman: how can I ask #freenode what do you mean ?
118[01:20:39] <segamain> ahhh it's channel right ?
119[01:21:17] <abrotman> Is <tab> really that hard?
120[01:22:52] <segamain> soimaj: just curious here. How deep do these rules go ? if a channel doesn't respond or can't help me am I not allowed to ask on other channels ?
130[01:26:46] <abrotman> And you were told already it seems?
131[01:27:17] <somiaj> segamain: It is more politness, no strict rule, but usually give a channell 30mins or so to respond.
132[01:27:43] <somiaj> !cross-post
133[01:27:44] <dpkg> Posting the same question in several places at the same time (IRC channels, news groups, mailing lists, forums) is impolite; your time is NOT more valuable than everyone else's. Your question might be answered elsewhere, meanwhile we are wasting our time doing research for a problem you've already solved. Cross-posting can also make you look like a spammer and get you k:lined. See also <multiple ask> <hurry>.
267[03:26:38] <ajayahmed> hi i added packages.sury.org as an apt source so i can install multiple versions of php but on a new debian 10 server every time i try to install or update something like php7.4-opcache, it also tries to install php8.0-common, php8.0-opcache. `apt-cache depends php7.4-opcache` shows no dependency on anything php 8 related so i have no idea why this is happening. can someone help please?
268[03:27:09] <sney> ,v php8.0-common
269[03:27:10] <judd> Package: php8.0-common on amd64 -- sid: 8.0.5-1
270[03:27:40] <sney> ajayahmed: do you have sid sources for some reason? if not, sounds like ondrej messed something up on his repo
282[03:35:36] <somiaj> the only thing I can think of is maybe let it install those extra packages, then run 'aptitude why php8.0-common' that should tell you what pulled it in.
283[03:35:49] <mutante> all have some priority, maybe try to change priority so that is sury is preferred?
284[03:36:18] <somiaj> ajayahmed: if you add --no-install-recommends do you also get the same beavhior.
285[03:36:32] <ajayahmed> somiaj yep
286[03:36:34] <somiaj> ajayahmed: apt policy packagename should tell you what repo a package would come from if mutante suggestion is correct.
287[03:38:21] *** Quits: Filo (~filohuhum@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
304[04:14:15] <Edu4rdSHL> Hello, I'm trying to setup networking in Debian, it's a Nspawn container, I have created the corresponding .network file to work with systemd-networkd but it isn't working. The service starts correctly but seems that it isn't reading the .network file because the interface is still "down" and "unmanaged" by systemd.
305[04:15:08] <sney> is the interface listed in /etc/network/interfaces? some other networking services will ignore any interfaces in that file
306[04:16:25] <Edu4rdSHL> sney, I dont have the /etc/network folder, it's a minimal Debian installation
307[04:16:59] <Edu4rdSHL> I dont know if debian put some "default networking services" even in minimal installations
308[04:17:06] <Edu4rdSHL> It's the .network file replaced-url
310[04:17:36] <sney> /etc/network/interfaces *is* the default networking service configuration in a minimal installation. so if you don't have that file, it's not the problem.
312[04:19:02] <somiaj> do you have do anything special to turn systemd-networkd on (it is disabled by default)
313[04:19:11] <Edu4rdSHL> sney, so, if I create a own container with `debootstrap --components=main,universe buster container-name repository-url`, it should create /etc/network ?
314[04:19:23] <Edu4rdSHL> somiaj, just enabling the service.
315[04:20:04] <sney> 'universe' is an ubuntu thing, but otherwise, normally any debian installation of any size will have ifupdown installed, and /etc/network/interfaces
316[04:21:27] <sney> the man page for systemd.network(5) recommends putting Name=* in the [Match] section to avoid a warning, maybe add that and see if it works (perhaps it's being enforced more strictly)
320[04:23:20] <PMT> Hi all, I've got a Debian bullseye VM, just recently I started having a strange behavior where if I run "sudo su -" and then run "cp /foo /bar" inside the session, the cp succeeds unremarkably, but when I type exit, sudo segfaults.
321[04:23:36] <sney> !sudo su
322[04:23:36] <dpkg> Typing "sudo su" is like typing "cat file | cat". If you want a non-login shell as root, just use "sudo -s". If you want a login shell, "sudo -i". There's no need to run two different superuser-elevation programs chained back to back. See also <buster su>
323[04:24:17] <PMT> Sure, I'm doing that wrong. My question stands.
324[04:24:37] <sney> does the behavior persist if you get a login shell as the factoid suggests, with sudo -i?
325[04:24:59] <PMT> The behavior persists if I just do "sudo cp /foo /bar", so I'm going to guess "yes"
331[04:27:49] <sney> can you elaborate on the source and dest files, do they have to be at the fs root or is that just a generic example? also, I recognize you from #zfs, is the example fs zfs?
332[04:28:09] <sney> Edu4rdSHL: it's more likely to be freedesktop enforcing the Name field, and the man page hasn't caught up yet.
333[04:28:57] <Edu4rdSHL> sney, I see. Thank you very much <3
334[04:29:00] <PMT> The FS is ext4, but I am playing with ZFS-related files - the destination file is a ZFS library under /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/, the source can be literally anything.
339[04:33:30] <sney> indeed, there's nothing zfs-ish in ldd $(which sudo) that I can see. you said this started recently, can you match a package in /var/log/apt/history.log to the approximate date it started happening?
345[04:37:08] <PMT> I don't see anything obvious in dpkg.log - the package installs in the last hour were me installing gdb and libc6-dbg to debug this (so, presumably, it started before), and before that, just "python-is-python3" an hour prior.
346[04:37:31] *** Quits: catman370 (~catman@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you later..)
348[04:37:52] <somiaj> wonder if trying to install the newer version from experiemntial to see if the behavior is still there could at least help debug it
352[04:38:28] <PMT> I can try that, this is just a testbed VM, so I don't really care if the world burns down in it. :)
353[04:38:29] <somiaj> PMT: so this only happens with very specific destination files and cp?
354[04:40:41] <PMT> somiaj: if I do not run cp [somewhere] [that library], it does not segfault on exit. cp [somewhere] /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdumbme.so does not cause it, whether that so path existed already when I ran sudo or not.
355[04:42:09] <PMT> (It also works for overwriting other ZFS libraries, even with themselves - I have not yet tried overwriting other libraries.)
363[04:48:16] <PMT> sudo from experimental also segfaults
364[04:49:12] <somiaj> you could also use snapshot.debian.org to see if older sudo's had this behavior, but wonder if there is some underlying feature happening. Are the libaries you overwriting currently loaded by some running program?
365[04:49:29] <somiaj> though still seems odd, no clue what oculd be going on
366[04:49:46] <sney> weird segfaults in an oddly specific location can also be memory problems
367[04:50:03] <sney> just that one part of that one dram
395[05:04:36] <PMT> so, i should perhaps be more precise
396[05:04:41] <PMT> the following statements are true
397[05:05:12] <PMT> * a login shell as my user does not report crashing on exit, but i'm also not sure i'd see the message before it displayed the login prompt again
406[05:09:53] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
407[05:11:52] <PMT> i'm reasonably confident this is memory corruption, since i just tried to save a core dump by running sudo gdb su and causing su to segfault, but it saved an invalid file and crashed.
408[05:12:33] <somiaj> could it be just something with the vm, or maybe the host? Maybe run memtest86 overnight
409[05:13:07] <PMT> not impossible, but none of the other VMs have had any unusual behavior yet.
411[05:14:58] <somiaj> well running multiple passes of memetest if you can afford the downtime could at least answer the question, or maybe it is just something strange about that particular vm.
465[06:15:28] <ASDX> is there an apt/dpkg command to check if files for a particular package have been changed since being installed/upgraded ("rpm -qV" equivalent)?
478[06:43:28] <somiaj> ASDX: /var/lib/dpkg/info/packagename.md5sums will contain the md5sums of all files installed by that package. So you could use that to manually verify, debsums is just the tool to automate this.
479[06:44:50] <somiaj> ahh looks like dpkg as a --verify option that uses those md5sums
481[06:47:04] <somiaj> though seems debsums has some features not included with --verify
482[06:58:59] <ASDX> somiaj: thanks. shame "dpkg -V" needs to be run against every package. takes a while on my system to run a result. i had an 'apt upgrade' complain that one or more files in /etc/pam.d/common-{auth,account,password,session} have been locally modified" so was trying to confirm which file(s) were changed and why. but "dpkg -V | grep libpam-runtime" doesn't return anything. i see there's a /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-runtime.md5sums
483[06:58:59] <ASDX> file but these common-* files have different file locations (eg "<md5sum> usr/share/pam/common-auth" when I was expecting "<md5sum> /etc/pam.d/common-auth" but looks like there's a /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-runtime.postinst file that actually move the files into their end location but the md5sums are not considered in their end location with "dpkg -V" as a result.
484[07:00:01] *** Quits: riff-IRC (~riff2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
486[07:02:41] <somiaj> ASDX: you can state what package to test if you don't want to test them all
487[07:03:12] <somiaj> many files in /etc are conf files controled by debconf, those you will have to deal with seperatly
488[07:04:32] <somiaj> yea, the message you are getting is there is a change to the configuration file, and it is asking if you want the new configuration file or your old one. I have had cases where I get this even on files I haven't edited, but sometimes scripts will edit them after debconf so they look like they have changed to debconf.
587[09:40:14] <afidegnum> hi, i have added an additional ip to the network interface but i can't still ping it. what am i not doing right ? replaced-url
591[09:45:01] <Tigryss> hi, I have some problem with ipv6/4. I try ro use my android with usb tethering and it's working, debian can only reach network with ipv6. Example "ping 8.8.8.8" response network unreachable but "ping 2001:4860:4860::8888" working fine
592[09:45:56] <Tigryss> is there anyone who had this issue before?
653[10:53:12] <alkisg> Tigryss: Also check if you do have an ipv4 with `ip a`, and if your phone does give a DHCPOFFER, with `sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n usb0`
668[11:23:16] <shtrb> [trying to do live backup of akonadi] Should mariahdb file storage be able to correct and start from backed up files in case files had been copied while mysqld was running (but no write operations had been running at the point in time) ?
669[11:24:04] <shtrb> I'm even wondering if I could just do a filesystem snapshot and try to load from it
670[11:24:46] <jelly> mysql server is supposed to survive the latter, yes, it's equivalent to a recovery after a power loss
671[11:24:58] <shtrb> thanks
672[11:25:31] <jelly> but if you want proper backups, use mariadb-backup
701[11:45:57] <dpkg> You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>.
702[11:47:02] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
712[11:55:53] <jelly> hegemoOn, if you can purge the package, install it again, and then the file appears, that would mean something like confmiss is happening
713[11:57:07] <hegemoOn> will test
714[11:57:09] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
715[11:57:36] <jelly> that is, you or a custom tool is deleting the file
798[13:06:53] <PamiPetteri> I am recompiling the kernel on Debian: "make -j`proc` deb-pkg". How come when I compiled with bindeb-pkg I did not get the PREEMPT string in my uname -a? I was expecting it. Also, my graphics card configuration was complaining something about mmio nouveau or nvidia, when I booted up. Should I expect that I get a better result now that I recompile with deb-pkg? I had also changed .config "on the fly"
799[13:06:59] <PamiPetteri> while compiling. Now I have a ready .config from the start. Is this compile going to have better results, regarding the "PREEMPT" string and the NVidia graphics configuration?
800[13:08:12] <PamiPetteri> I do not really know what I am doing. This is my hobby.
801[13:12:56] <petn-randall> PamiPetteri: What is CONFIG_PREEMPT set to in your .config?
810[13:23:00] <Tigryss> hi, I have some problem with ipv6/4. I try ro use my android with usb tethering and it's working, debian can only reach network with ipv6. Example "ping 8.8.8.8" response network unreachable but "ping 2001:4860:4860::8888" working fine
814[13:25:11] <jelly> Tigryss, also [08:53:12] <alkisg> Tigryss: Also check if you do have an ipv4 with `ip a`, and if your phone does give a DHCPOFFER, with `sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n usb0`
815[13:25:34] <jelly> oops, forgot to dehighlight alk'isg
816[13:26:16] <Tigryss> ping 64:ff9b::8.8.8.8" works? No
817[13:27:43] <jelly> Mr. Dagger knows more about ipv6 and NAT64 than me, I'm just pasting the stuff you may have missed last time you were here
820[13:30:13] <Tigryss> sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n usb0 no device to configure
821[13:30:40] <Tigryss> jelly thanks I read back :D
822[13:31:29] <petn-randall> PamiPetteri: If you set that, and then compiled the kernel, it should be preempt. Not sure when that shows up in `uname -a`.
823[13:32:54] <PamiPetteri> petn-randall: it might be on without showing it in uname -a. but I am trying to recompile - mostly because my graphics card configuration was complaining upon boot.
824[13:34:58] *** BrianG61UK__ is now known as BrianG61UK_
826[13:36:13] <alkisg> (02:30:13 PM) Tigryss: sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n usb0 no device to configure => what is the device name? `ip a` will tell you. Also, what's the output of `ip r`, is there the correct route registered there?
845[13:44:56] <alkisg> Tigryss: that's the usb interface name? Oh well, ok, check with that one. And also check the route, `ip r`, and if you can ping the dhcp server == android
854[13:48:46] <alkisg> Tigryss: try again the `ipconfig` command, but now without the -n
855[13:49:01] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
856[13:49:08] <alkisg> This should register the correct route so that you can use ping etc. But you need to configure it properly, with network-manager or dhclient etc
858[13:50:04] <alkisg> This is the output of `ip r` with bullseye+network manager: 192.168.42.0/24 dev usb0 proto kernel scope link src 192.168.42.118 metric 101
859[13:50:33] <alkisg> Without an IP and a route for 192.168.42.x, ipv4 won't work
860[13:51:57] <Tigryss> hmm can be that the problem is that the modem manager is removed?
861[13:52:17] <alkisg> I think you should answer that one first: which program are you using to get an IP
862[13:52:31] <alkisg> Are you using network-manager, or /etc/network/interfaces (ifupdown), or wicd, or dhclient...
863[13:52:39] <Tigryss> network manager
864[13:53:07] <alkisg> Can you paste the output of: nmcli
890[14:07:26] <petn-randall> PamiPetteri: If you don't have any issues I'd say those are purely cosmetic. What graphics card(s) do you have in this machine? Is it a laptop?
891[14:07:40] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
892[14:08:24] <PamiPetteri> petn-randall: NVidia GeForce. this is a tower PC from 2013, K5130 ASUS PC. I will ask screenfetch or neofetch about my graphics card.
899[14:11:43] <PamiPetteri> I am now using deb-pkg instead of bindeb-pkg in case this works better. where exactly is the source code and where is the upload and where is it uploaded?
906[14:15:25] <petn-randall> PamiPetteri: "bindeb-pkg" will create a binary package to install. "deb-pkg" will also create a source package, which you could use to build the binary packages from.
908[14:16:43] <petn-randall> None of those will actually upload anything. "Preparing an upload" is a term used for preparing the source tarball for upload, so that Debian build servers can build the binary packages.
910[14:17:15] <euri10[m]> greetings, I upgraded my buster desktop to bullseye yesterday without any issue except a minor inconvenince with bluetooth I reported. The only thing that does not work, but it's not Debian's fault, is the `nvidia-container-runtime` for docker : some research reveals that they dont support cgroups v2 yet, which is now the default. There seem to be a fix that consists in forcing systemd to use cgroup v1 (in the grub cmdline) but I wanted to
911[14:17:15] <euri10[m]> know before I test that option what are the pros/cons of not using the cgroups v2 default ?
998[16:29:17] <PamiPetteri> my graphics crashed when my computer was hibernating under GNOME in Xwayland. I did a "killall -1 Xwayland" as root from the console and when I logged back in GNOME, the computer refused to connect to my IRC shell machine, but gave proper "ping" replies from the machine. What is this? When I rebooted the computer there was a 1 min 30 sec stop job from cron running. Was there some sort of upgrade going
999[16:29:23] <PamiPetteri> on, or what else could it have been? Am I going to have a better experience using MATE with X than GNOME with Xwayland?
1002[16:31:36] <PamiPetteri> I suppose the graphics problem had to do with this new kernel, that is giving graphics errors upon boot. Cannot read some addresses and cannot write some addresses. It might have to do with the intel-microcode install I did with apt. Or just a kernel issue with the graphics driver.
1003[16:31:41] <PamiPetteri> jelly: ok.
1004[16:31:42] <jelly> you can keep gnome just switch back to gnome on X, I think
1005[16:32:25] <jelly> that ought to be one of the session options on the login screen (display manager)
1017[16:47:30] <daft_dutch> Hi im bought a vpn account and it uses openvpn openvpn <script> works but i like to run it at the background. I tried to set default/openvpn as good as i tried but im stuck
1022[16:51:54] <mirko> after i realised yesterday that my firefox v88.0 package fetched from sid and installed on bullseye is considered a frankedebian, i now built the firefox v88.0 package on bullseye and can reproduce the crash. now i also have debug symbols and a meaningful backtrace: replaced-url
1025[16:57:17] <daft_dutch> openvpn <script> runs. but if i run it as service it says May 5 16:55:06 mole ovpn-login[11271]: Options error: Unrecognized option or missing or extra parameter(s) in /etc/openvpn/login.conf:1:
1029[17:01:27] <somiaj> mirko: this channel is for stable support, so we assume that users are running stable. Installing sid packages in testing is a common practice in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
1030[17:01:49] <somiaj> mirko: though with bullseye about ready to be releaed, don't depend on sid packages, espically ones that will never migrate to stable if you stabalize with bullseye
1031[17:03:03] <somiaj> mirko: if you grab older firefox packages from snapshot.debian.org, do they also crash or is this only with firefox v88? You could file a bug report, might get a bit more useful response.
1032[17:04:56] <mirko> somiaj: the crash was introduced with v88 - downgrading back to v87 everything is fine again
1036[17:06:15] <mirko> i checked already and it doesn't seem common, hence i suspected my setup and figured maybe the backtrace might ring a bell what's wrong here
1045[17:09:54] <somiaj> and you ahve tried the binary compiled by mozilla?
1046[17:10:07] <mirko> somiaj: no
1047[17:10:22] <somiaj> I would try that, see if it is a debian package issue vs firefox
1048[17:10:39] <somiaj> if the binary from mozilla has the same problem, I'd report a bug upstream as it may get more response than reporting it to debian.
1049[17:11:33] <mirko> understood, currently suspecting fGetString() so, maybe i can get to the bottom myself
1060[17:24:31] <Xalys> Does the debian-security repo use phased updates / gradual rollout? A security update for bind9-host was published to the repo on 29 Apr 2021, but unattended upgrades only updated it on 2 May 2021
1061[17:25:08] <petn-randall> Xalys: No, it doesn't haven staggered rollouts.
1062[17:25:18] *** Quits: sinaowolabi (~Sina@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1063[17:25:31] <petn-randall> Xalys: Did it install earlier on another machine?
1064[17:26:47] <Xalys> petn-randall: No, I have three machines that updated the package all in the same night. They're all configured to run unattended-upgrades every 4h and install updates from Debian-Security. But when I look in bind9-host's changelog, I see a release date of 29 Apr 2021. Perhaps the changelog was finalised before publishing the package? Is that common?
1072[17:33:12] <petn-randall> Xalys: If you look at the "news" section, you'll see that it was uploaded on may 1, so I'm assuming the changelog entry was prepared earlier.
1100[18:14:27] <junialter> I'm trying debian Bullseye on my raspberry pi 2 in order to make it a stratum 1 NTP
1101[18:14:55] <junialter> What I'm missing is how I can change the gpio pin for the pps signal which I did on raspbian with dtoverlay in /boot/config.txt
1102[18:15:21] *** Quits: wintersky (uid453465@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1138[18:56:05] <PamiPetteri> I should remember not to fix what is not broken. I will reboot now and see how my current setup reacts to firmware-misc-nonfree and firmware-realtek. I am not too excited about using flashrom, because that could end up in unwanted results. I do not want to break my computer's hardware.
1139[18:56:21] *** Quits: Filohuhum (~filohuhum@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1192[19:46:56] <kevindd992002> I'm running Debian Buster and while I was upgrading qemu-extra-blocks, it brought up the usual sshd_config reconfiguration screen (in my SSH terminal) saying that a new version of the sshd_config file is to be installed and either I proceed with it or keep the local file that's currently being used. I accidentally pressed Esc and it just continued
1193[19:46:56] <kevindd992002> with the installation. Immediately after pressing Esc, here's what I saw:
1194[19:46:57] <kevindd992002> Setting up openssh-server (1:8.4p1-2~bpo10+1) ...
1195[19:46:57] <kevindd992002> Installing new version of config file /etc/init.d/ssh ...
1196[19:46:58] <kevindd992002> Installing new version of config file /etc/ssh/moduli ...
1197[19:46:58] *** kevindd992002 was kicked by debhelper (flood)
1200[19:47:31] <kevindd992002> I'm running Debian Buster and while I was upgrading qemu-extra-blocks
1201[19:47:44] <kevindd992002> it brought up the usual sshd_config reconfiguration screen (in my SSH terminal) saying that a new version of the sshd_config file is to be installed and either I proceed with it or keep the local file that's currently being used. I accidentally pressed Esc and it just continued with the installation.
1202[19:48:00] <kevindd992002> I restarted the server and tried ssh'ing again. What I noticed is that after I input my user password, it takes more than a minute for it to get in and when I do a systemctl status I see a degraded status with this failed units:
1210[19:52:03] <greycat> So the problem is "ssh-ing in takes over 1 minute, and log shows user@1000.service loaded failed". I'd check the ownership of /run/user/1000/ because I've seen that get screwed up before.
1211[19:53:08] <cosimone> hello, this is probably a pedantic observation, but i noticed that ocaml-nox in the standard buster repository, *suggests* ocaml-doc, which is in the non-free repository. is it correct for a package in the standard repo to suggest packages in the non-free repo?
1226[19:56:26] <greycat> OK, then I don't know. I might just reboot. systemd and dbus are still kinda mysteries to me.
1227[19:56:30] <cosimone> it seems surprising to me that packages in the standard repository might suggest packages in the non-free repo, but if this is allowed, then i have no complaints
1228[19:56:52] <somiaj> kevindd992002: unsure if the configuration issue during the install is affecting this, but you should have either a backup of your old config or a copy of the original dpkg config in /etc/ssh/
1229[19:57:22] <greycat> ssh configuration should not be causing systemd --user services to fail
1230[19:57:29] <kevindd992002> I already rebooted. I noticed the issue after rebooting after the upgrade of qemu-extra-blocks
1231[19:57:30] <jhutchins> cosimone: It's OK for a package in main to recommend or suggest a non-free package, but it would be wrong to depend on non-free.
1232[19:58:08] <somiaj> jhutchins: are you sure about that? I don't think main can have any depends in contrib/non-free.
1233[19:58:14] <jhutchins> What's userservices trying to do?
1247[20:00:47] <somiaj> cosimone: often time docs have unmutable parts which puts them in non-free, though I must have not noticed that suggests can be outside of main.
1274[20:09:35] <kevindd992002> what do you know, installing scdaemon fixed it!
1275[20:09:46] <kevindd992002> both ssh and user manager problems
1276[20:10:01] <kevindd992002> I don't understand why though
1277[20:10:37] <kevindd992002> I have another Debian system that doesn't have scdaemon installed too but I don't see that no scdaemon message when I do sytemctl status on that box
1278[20:10:43] <jhutchins> kevindd992002: It's likely the usermanager failure was causing the delay, waiting to complete.
1279[20:11:01] <greycat> does it have gpgconf from backports? or is that unique to the one that was having issues
1280[20:11:04] <kevindd992002> Right, that's what I thought
1286[20:14:24] <kevindd992002> I'm assuming that if if qemu-extra-blocks was the one responsible for upgrading other dependencies (including gpgconf) from the backports, then it should do the same for both systems, no?
1302[20:30:32] <kevindd992002> Before all this, what happened was an older backports version of qemu-block-extra was installed and it was tagged as "not upgraded"
1303[20:30:54] <johnjay> is /etc/sudoers.d/wheel a standard file in general or just debian?
1304[20:31:02] <kevindd992002> I then did apt list --upgradeable -a and it showed two possible upgrades for that package which caused it to not be upgraded
1305[20:31:11] <kevindd992002> one from stable and one from backports that has a higher version
1306[20:31:39] <kevindd992002> that's why I did apt -t buster-backports upgrade qemu-block-extra which caused the upgrade of a lot of packages from backports too
1307[20:31:53] <kevindd992002> Did I do that incorrectly?
1308[20:32:22] <greycat> johnjay: sounds more like a BSD thing. I have no such file.
1309[20:32:34] <johnjay> ok
1310[20:32:49] <johnjay> i do have the folder itself on debian though
1311[20:32:59] <greycat> yes, mine just has a README
1312[20:33:08] <topoi_> I want to mount a device that is inserted, do some tasks and umount it automagically thereafter; how would I accomplish this? Would it be feasable to parse syslog and fork the rest or are there simpler ways?
1313[20:33:10] *** Quits: dubbie (~strength@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1314[20:34:37] <jmcnaught> kevindd992002: it would have been better to do "apt -t buster-backports install qemu-block-extra" which would have been more targetted. Because you used the upgrade verb, you probably upgraded every package that could be upgraded to backports version, which is not recommended.
1319[20:36:10] <kevindd992002> jmcnaught: argh, that's exactly what I thought. I was going to use the install verb initially but thought upgrade was more targeted. Is there anyway to revert those changes? Or would a reinstall of Debian be faster at this point?
1320[20:37:20] <jmcnaught> kevindd992002: downgrades aren't really supported by apt/dpkg but you can try the remedy suggested by "/msg dpkg partial downgrade"
1321[20:37:20] <somiaj> kevindd992002: you could go figure out which packages were upgraded and manually downgrade them
1322[20:37:35] <somiaj> results may varry depending on number of pcakges.
1323[20:38:56] <kevindd992002> yeah, too much work, I guess. judging from the apt history.log, there's a lot that have been upgraded. i'll probably reinstall debian and charge this to experience.
1324[20:39:10] <kevindd992002> i was luck to still have ssh access as I did this remotely, lol
1325[20:39:15] <kevindd992002> lucky*
1326[20:40:49] *** Quits: ecsim (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1327[20:41:03] <somiaj> kevindd992002: backports just have less testing and no directy security support, so though they are often good packages, there is less testing on how they interact together, hence best to minimize what backports you use based on need.
1381[21:22:58] <sney> apt is a newer tool that has more functions in a single binary.
1382[21:22:59] <somiaj> xuxx: apt is meant to be a user front end, and apt-get is meant more for scripts.
1383[21:23:03] <sney> but they are essentially equivalent for this
1384[21:23:12] <jhutchins> xuxx: same outcome, different internal process.
1385[21:23:30] <somiaj> well apt-get was heavily used in scripts, and due to this its options have to be static, so a new binary apt was created that could be a bit more modern in terms of output and behavior
1386[21:23:37] <greycat> dpkg, apt vs. apt-get
1387[21:23:37] <dpkg> apt is promoted over apt-get for interactive use. It uses fancy colors and has output format differences. It removes the .deb files that it downloads during an install or upgrade. It installs new packages during upgrades. apt-get has a stable command-line interface and is promoted for scripting.
1388[21:24:21] <somiaj> xuxx: Though almost an XY problem here, what are you trying to do? Get a specific set of packages on a newly installed system?
1389[21:24:26] <xuxx> sney: '-y' skip prompts even if it works ?
1390[21:24:57] <xuxx> somiaj: I installed something and I want to do a script for my friends so it's easier for them
1405[21:30:06] <sney> you could also make a metapackage .deb that depends on the packages needed, then they could just "apt install ./custom-whatever.deb" and apt will handle the rest automatically
1406[21:30:35] <xuxx> sney: not my level XD
1407[21:30:48] <sney> it's basically a text file, you didn't even check
1409[21:30:55] <xuxx> also I have config file to edit
1410[21:31:01] <xuxx> I planned to do that in the bash script
1411[21:31:21] <saint_> Anyone using Digital Ocean to host Debian VM with XFCE by any chance ?
1412[21:32:06] <greycat> I don't understand why you would put a desktop environment on a remote server.
1413[21:32:25] <saint_> I'm using X2GO to remote to the X11, and it's pretty sluggish. I was wondering if Adding RAM , since I can't add ram on the graphical board , would change anything ?
1422[21:35:41] <greycat> Any plain window manager.
1423[21:35:52] <saint_> sney of course. but my users are worldwide. scratch this option for me.
1424[21:35:52] <greycat> There are literally dozens.
1425[21:36:01] <sney> ^ or lxqt/lxde are less involved than xfce as well
1426[21:37:15] <jhutchins> saint_: lxde is rumored to be leaner, but not as advanced.
1427[21:37:18] <sney> last time I needed a gui on a remote server I used windowmaker. it had the added benefit of nobody knowing wtf it was, so I didn't really need to lock it either
1428[21:37:19] <saint_> ok. I'll pump this VM up with another GB Ram, and if not working I'll try lxqt. Thanks
1431[21:40:40] <jelly> saint_, the sluggishness is a function of latency mostly. The clients need to be close to the remote GUI server, and they need decent bandwidth.
1432[21:40:55] <jelly> RAM will not help
1433[21:41:47] <jelly> that said, there are better and worse remote GUI solutions. vnc is pretty crap. X11 over ssh is worse. the fastest-feeling solutions are proprietary
1434[21:41:51] <saint_> jelly i went cheap for test purpose with only 1GB Ram. Clients sadly are on remote oil rigs or thousands of miles away with "ok" connections. I think 100Mbs/download, 5Mbs/upload (if that)
1435[21:41:55] *** Quits: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
1436[21:42:04] <jelly> saint_, 1GB is not enough for GUI
1438[21:43:02] <jelly> but if your clients are on oil rigs you probably have money for AirDesk or something
1439[21:43:10] <saint_> jelly you'd think ...
1440[21:43:33] <sney> xrdp is reasonably fast even over a crappy connection, again not brilliantly fast or anything but still usable
1441[21:43:39] <saint_> jelly i was thinking aout VNC, but i dont remember where I read that security wise, it's a no-no, while x2go runs over ssh tunnel
1442[21:43:59] <saint_> i m resizing the VM with 2GB Ram. I'll see in a few once it s done.
1443[21:44:34] <jelly> AnyDesk, not AirDesk
1444[21:44:56] <greycat> VNC can also run over an ssh tunnel
1445[21:44:58] <jelly> saint_, you can run vnc over an ssh tunnel.
1446[21:45:10] <jelly> but that is also not a good idea wrt latency
1447[21:45:30] <jelly> use a datagram-based vpn tu secure the transport instead
1448[21:45:34] <jhutchins> I think forwarding a whole desktop should be avoided if at all possible. Forwarding one or two apps is not too bad, but general control and management should be done with a plain console.
1458[21:48:20] <jelly> count the number of remote exploits it had, on its native platform
1459[21:48:44] <jelly> secure the traffic with vpn.
1460[21:51:56] <saint_> yeah. i'm either doing vpn or ssh. but we have to connect those guys to multiple machines, on multiple data centers, which are not connected together. so they'd need a vpn connection per destination, which is going to be a major pain in the butt to maintain on both ends. i'd rather use ssh tunnels. X2GO allows me to set them up with remote login / IP , mount the ssh, and off they go. one application for them, multiple servers / desktops to
1461[21:51:56] <saint_> connect to. easier on their end.
1462[21:52:36] <alkisg> The most important part is the network connection... I vnc over ssh to my office, but I have a 100 mbps line on both sides (and low latency); so it's very snappy
1463[21:54:10] <alkisg> saint_: is "remote disk" an option instead of "remote desktop"? If so, it feels a lot faster. E.g. VM over SSHFS...
1467[21:57:16] <jelly> I have my own machines in 5-6 datacenters, all in the same /24
1468[21:58:01] <saint_> jelly I cant connect the endpoints together. they're all different companies
1469[21:58:38] <saint_> alkisg not an option. the goal is to run proprietary applications locally on those servers. good point though.
1470[21:58:46] <jelly> saint_, you can still connect them to the same vpn server and allow traffic routing accordingly
1471[21:59:41] <saint_> jelly i could. but then i'm adding a point of failure with this new server in the middle. and it's going to add latency instead of them ssh'ing directly to the end servers
1473[22:01:00] <jelly> saint_, ssh is still tcp-inside-tcp and a decent vpn won't be
1474[22:01:01] <saint_> I added 2GB Ram on my test VM. seems smoother. I'll keep doing testing and see how it goes. Might try LXDE tomorrow.
1475[22:01:14] <alkisg> RDP over SSH port forwarding is also possible, when double encryption/security makes sense... Or just rdp with some firewall restrictions for some added security...
1476[22:01:42] <jelly> if you want to do GUI with X give the system at least 4GB RAM (well, depends on the app workload)
1479[22:02:04] <alkisg> saint_: one thing to test is with or without compositor. Also, MATE has a "detect remote desktop and stop effects" infrastructure by sunweaver
1480[22:02:18] <jelly> I wouldn't put a Linux GUI on a machine with < 4GB, and I wouldn't run a browser without 8GB RAM
1481[22:02:55] <saint_> jelly ok. let me try to increase size of this test vm. definitely better now with 2gb than 1.
1482[22:03:07] <jelly> saint_, measure first, then increase
1484[22:03:41] <jelly> run "vmstat 1", log in and click things, see whether there's enough cache and whether there's active swapping
1485[22:04:33] <jelly> (si, so columns = reading from swap, writing to swap)
1486[22:04:44] <saint_> you'd be surprise on how those companies are so cheap. drives me nuts. we have about 2,700 users to run on this new setup , connecting to 387 servers. say hello to my summer nightmare .
1487[22:05:16] <jelly> figure out what you need to make things smooth, then tell them why and how much it's going to cost
1488[22:05:30] <saint_> but that's better than a job where you have nothing to do and get bored i guess, lol..
1489[22:05:52] <jelly> sure, with 400 VMs adding 1GB to each adds up fast
1490[22:06:19] <saint_> jelly their mentality is "if you can't do what we want you to do, at the price we want or cheaper, then we'll use someone else". I wouldnt care if i was running under loads of $$$$ but that s not the case...
1491[22:06:58] <jelly> I'd do a PoC where everything works great, then tell them how much $$$
1492[22:07:01] <saint_> i spoke to another company about this client. someone they used to deal with. those guys told me "yeah you can keep them. nobody wants them" ...
1494[22:07:58] <alkisg> Connecting to amazon workspaces via linux clients also works well with low bandwidth. If they can afford it, it'll be quite easy to set up
1495[22:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1044
1496[22:08:07] <saint_> you know the client who's a pest and will call you for every little thing that they cant point out? like "My computer is not working" ... well.. define "not working"... like.. not turning on? not on the network? application crashing? "It's not working, check it out"... that's this type of client. E V E R Y fuck!ng day.
1497[22:08:26] <saint_> alkisg yeah! I was thinking about that. Used Amazon WorkSpaces in the past, loved it.
1498[22:08:37] <jelly> and then you charge per call and per hour
1499[22:08:40] <saint_> THat might be a good solution actually. I'll try to bring this up again.
1500[22:08:56] <saint_> jelly if I do that -no disrespect- they'll send their business in India..
1502[22:09:50] <jelly> 'swhy I don't like working with end users
1503[22:09:51] <saint_> alkisg the only thing though - i dont rememebver - does your workspace keep the same IP address when you connect to it then have to go out on the internet ?
1504[22:10:24] <saint_> jelly what country are you located in ?
1507[22:11:19] <alkisg> saint_: I helped in setting it up but I'm not using it myself so not sure. I guess it would keep the ip as long as you close the rdp client without fully logging out
1508[22:11:57] <saint_> alkisg i have an AWS account, i'll mount one up and try it again. thanks for that. i totally forgot about this.
1509[22:13:18] <saint_> jelly i work with americanos :) like in the movies. they want it now at a dirt cheap price. good business at the end, but someitmes you have to suffer. no good health care here. and nowadays with this shit virus going on and business closing, i do my best to achieve expected goals, and even better. i like the challenge though. keeps your brain going .. :)
1520[22:16:30] <saint_> so basically an internal address, then i need to setup a VPC, and this will guaranty the same public IP address. i'll look into it.
1521[22:16:42] <saint_> on this note, back to my tests. thanks all for the chat and hints.
1529[22:30:05] <saint_> I added an extra 2GB, and it's night and day with 4GB RAM now. Thanks for whoever recommended this. I was going cheap :) Lesson learned.
1575[23:19:34] <ld> I want to do the 4.3.3 method so I can include nonfree firmware during install
1576[23:20:18] <greycat> !firmware images
1577[23:20:18] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
1578[23:21:49] <jmcnaught> ld: then either use an unofficial non-free firmware image, or create a partition in the remaining space after following the steps in 4.3.1
1579[23:21:50] <ld> It wouldn't allow me to create a partition in the remaining free space after 4.3.1
1604[23:33:57] *** Quits: Ekis (~Ekis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1605[23:34:18] <somiaj> ld: both are supported, though installing bullseye directly would be one less step
1606[23:34:42] <somiaj> ld: just note you won't have full security support until the actual release, but I hear it is going to be in the next 1-2 months.