38[00:36:05] <KNERD> Anyone know of a resource so I can learn to make an ISO installation ?
39[00:36:32] <useretail> hi, i'm stuck during installing a package, what do? details: replaced-url
40[00:36:33] <Hash> topoi: world known security researcher etc. Very smart guy. replaced-url
41[00:37:27] <oxek> useretail: wait
42[00:38:53] <useretail> oxek, ok, it finished with a warning: Operation was interrupted before it could finish
43[00:38:55] <Hash> KNERD: what do you mean iso installation? Do you want to make a bootable iso from debian, customized?
44[00:39:00] <useretail> oxek, what do now?
45[00:39:43] <KNERD> Hash: correct. Even modiy the installer somewhat.
46[00:39:54] <KNERD> I don't want to use those remix apps
47[00:40:04] <Hash> !debian-live
48[00:40:04] <dpkg> The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from replaced-url
49[00:40:34] <KNERD> Hash: I mentioned I installation
50[00:40:44] <KNERD> I don't want to use live
51[00:41:33] <Hash> That is also used for Debian custom cd image creation
52[00:41:45] <Hash> And the resulting iso will be live bootable. Hence the name.
53[00:41:58] <alex11> is there a way i can set alsa mixer back to default settings?
88[01:05:16] *** Quits: Mister00X (quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: "I'll be back" — Arnold Schwarzenegger)
89[01:05:28] <Arc1> For the latest Debian with XFCE desktop, what is the recommended partition size for: 1. OS with "/home", 2. OS without "/home" and 3. "/home" in a separate partition?
97[01:13:20] <Arc1> abrotman: I want to differentiate between diff partitioning scheemes: 1. OS with /home in its partition and 2. OS in one partition and /home in a separate partition?
117[01:22:03] <abrotman> wait, then what's the difference between 2 and 3?
118[01:22:29] <jelly> they're asking for sizing suggestions
119[01:22:42] <jelly> so, size for / and size for /home
120[01:23:13] <Arc1> not to get sidetracked, I would like to set up a multiboot system with an option of instaling Deb into one of the partitions so just want to know what sizes are recommended
121[01:23:49] <jelly> that really depends on how much cruft accumulates and how much extra stuff you install
122[01:24:23] <jelly> 10GB might be enough for your / without home, or you might fill it up in 6 months
126[01:25:41] <oxek> I still need to find out how to replace my LVM setup with btrfs with subvolumes
127[01:26:22] <KNERD> My humble opinion is if you want to do seperate partitons and worried about space...put it on another drive
128[01:26:58] <Arc1> I would like to have a separate /home and /data partitions without a ton of extra apps beyond defaults so my main concern is to have enough free space for routing maintenance and upgrades on / and not be too boxed in on /home
129[01:27:35] <Arc1> *routine manintenance...
130[01:27:35] <jelly> my workstation systems installed around 2001 have 40GB /+/var and 50-80GB /home and $HOME/.cache is on a separate fs
143[01:32:22] <jelly> I do know if you like separate filesystems lvm will help _provided_ you don't allocate all the space immediately
144[01:32:46] <jelly> 25G is as good a number as any
145[01:34:02] <Arc1> ok, a diff question: What is a reasonable booting time for the latest Debian with XFCE desktop running on a Core 2 Duo CPU with 8GB RAM with minimum additional apps installed when booting from: 1. HD? 2. SSD?
146[01:36:03] <oxek> hdd about 1-2min, ssd about 40s-1min
163[01:40:59] <sney> those chipsets usually supported >4GB and it wasn't strange to find a motherboard that could, but it was 32-bit windows that topped out at 3.something so it was rare to see in the wild
165[01:42:03] <KNERD> Not sure why Windows 32 bit supported only 4GB of RAM
166[01:42:20] <Arc1> In a multiboot situation, with separate /home's and data partitions, is it reasonalbe to put OS booting partitions on a SSD and /home's and data partitions on a HD or will putting an OS and its separate /home on diff drives create extra slowdown?
167[01:43:05] <sney> KNERD: because 32-bit refers to its ability to address 2^32 bytes of memory, or approximately 4 GB
170[01:44:33] <sney> Arc1: having the OS on a fast disk and data on a slow disk is a common setup. you might see some slowdowns with /home on the slow disk, particularly if you use a desktop that does a lot of caching, or tend to run a lot of browser tabs, etc, but ymmv
171[01:44:59] <KNERD> sney: not true. then the 8 Bit Commodore 54 and 128 are examples of that not being the case 2^8 = 256 yet support 64,000 and 128,000 Bytes of memoriy repspecitively
172[01:45:29] <sney> KNERD: in windows's case, 32-bit refers to addressable memory. other vendors' use of bits may vary.
173[01:46:18] <KNERD> yes, but they could of gotten around that like others did
175[01:46:53] <dvs> KNERD: in Commodore 64, it used 2 8-bits to store addresses. The 128 had bank switching for 128KB
176[01:46:56] <sney> by the time the 4GB limit was becoming a problem, they had already started working on a 64-bit OS, so that was probably seen as an easier solution
177[01:47:19] <sney> in fact, IA64 windows had been around for a while at that point iirc
178[01:48:18] <Urk> sney> I only have a functioning 10.7 install disk which is why I was asking the question. During the last install I recall that I had to have a kernel greater than 5.10 in order to get everything working so whether or not to proceed with 10.7 is a fair question to ask.
179[01:48:36] <KNERD> yes, true
180[01:49:30] <sney> Urk: #debian does not memorize every model from every hardware vendor. if we told you before that it's too new for 4.19, then it's probably too new for buster in general. reinstalling 100 times will not change this fact
181[01:50:09] <Arc1> sney: so given the options of puting both /'s on ssd and both /homes on hd OR keeping a / with its /home on the same drive - ssd (but then puting the other / with its home on hd) which would be the best choice?
183[01:50:57] <sney> Urk: you are the current resident expert on (re)installing debian on the xps 15 7590. hooray! for more useful answers, try something like "does debian 10 support $(my cpu and gpu models)?"
185[01:51:53] <sney> Arc1: "best" is subjective. *I* have usually had my OS on a SSD and my /home on an array of HDDs, but I'm just one user with one use case. Try stuff and see how it suits you.
189[01:56:25] <Arc1> regarding my earlier booting time question, I should probably specify that my CPU is Core2 6400 @ 2.13 GHz (ie: not the fastest) and yes 4GB RAM...
192[01:59:15] <KNERD> In the "olden" days there used to be all kinds of hacks for hardware. i recall Cyrix made a Pentium II chip which could plug into a Pent 1 slot. And Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager , I think, was the first to get around the 640K memory limit
195[02:02:13] <sney> Arc1: it'd probably be a little faster than my old eeepc with its atom n270 and only 1GB of memory. not an incredibly fast boot, but no more than a couple minutes at the outside
214[02:12:53] <KNERD> For a hanging example, your network card is connected to a switch, but not to a router. It will hang for a while trying to get an IP address if you have it set to DHCP
215[02:12:55] <Urk> I was hoping to find someone who actually had experience installing 10.7 on a Dell XPS 1590
216[02:14:08] <KNERD> man, just use a live boot and see how well it goes
220[02:16:52] <Arc1> in a multiboot system with two OS's each on a separate ext4 partition, is there a problem with indicating that the mount point for each is "/" or will some stuff get overwritten?
223[02:21:00] <slowly_stuck> only the running OS gets to decide where things are mounted. you don't want to have two entries per fstab both mounting on /, though.
224[02:21:56] <Arc1> I got spooked, cause when trying to instal a 2nd OS, the installer told me some files will be overwriten...
225[02:22:37] <slowly_stuck> that sounds like you told the installer that both things were mounting on /, which is the two-entries-per-fstab.
229[02:26:01] <Arc1> perhaps the issue is my reading comprehension but: For the partition of the new OS, installer says: "no root file system is defined" (partition is already formated as ext4) - if it is asking for a mount point what should the correct answer be?
230[02:26:47] <KNERD> In this day and age of virtualization, who needs multiboot?
231[02:27:15] <slowly_stuck> Arc1: that should mount on /. perhaps it's telling you that files will be overwritten because the partition you're installing on already has data? or you're formatting it?
232[02:28:03] <Arc1> slowly_stuck: no the new partition is empty, the installer was talking about system files
233[02:29:15] <somiaj> It might noly check that the file system exsists, and not really look at what is on it
234[02:29:38] <somiaj> so if you are mounting on a preformated filesystem the installer might just be saying, hey you sure you want to do this, you could overwrite data
235[02:30:24] *** Quits: Janos (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: Gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
241[02:32:55] <somiaj> The installer is just being extra cautions, it doesn't know what is on a file system, only that it is there, and makes sure you want to go forward.
242[02:33:32] <somiaj> Provided you pointed it at the correct partition, you'll be fine, if you pointed it at the wrong partition, you can overwrite data, but the installer doesn't know which is right or which is wrong, it is just giving you a warning
248[02:38:28] *** Parts: Arc1 (~kvirc@replaced-ip) ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
284[03:15:54] <Dude-Meister> Shopping to build a new rig FOR Debian. (Windows 7 was what my current machine(s) were designed around - and now it's a whole new ball-game - thank goodness)
285[03:16:26] *** Quits: YWH_1 (~foo_drive@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
286[03:16:39] <Dude-Meister> So . . . I'm on a buget and thinking now may be a good time to move to a Xeon platform rather than Core i3/5/7
289[03:17:50] <Dude-Meister> So, given I'd like to shop used, AND retain my chasis and PSU's, I'm also looking for DDR3 ECC era board and CPU to run Debian Buster on.
290[03:18:24] <Dude-Meister> I've never run a Zeon, or built a Zeon based box, so i need help knowing what to look for.
306[03:25:01] <oxek> from the perspective of debian, Supermicro boards for intel platform should be supported very well, especially in combination with Xeon and ECC RAM
307[03:25:20] <Dude-Meister> "Thank you" is nice, but who doesn't like a nice slice of old world cheesecake and a good cup of coffee, eh?
308[03:25:29] <oxek> those boards often include Intel network cards too, which too are well supported
309[03:26:18] <Dude-Meister> Yeah, it's be nice to have at least two NIC ports.
310[03:26:29] <Dude-Meister> Gigabit is all.
311[03:27:12] <Dude-Meister> I've got a great inwin - no no - it's ummmmmm Lian-Li
312[03:27:31] <oxek> I can confirm that Supermicro X11SCH-F works 100% with debian, 64GB RAM, some cheap Xeon, all 3 network cards fine. Of course having latest firmware.
313[03:27:45] <Dude-Meister> I snagged it from a local company that was - struggling. It's a custom Frozen CPU box.
321[03:29:13] <Dude-Meister> No different than flashing IT mode on LSI stuff.
322[03:29:22] <oxek> it's more along the lines of it being a black box, that you have to upgrade to stay on top of exploits, and things can randomly change and stop working
323[03:29:23] <Dude-Meister> :)
324[03:29:40] <Dude-Meister> I've flased a lot of optical drives too.
325[03:30:16] <Dude-Meister> Liggy and Dee, and the Dangerous Brothers style. Patched firmwares, so on and so on.
330[03:36:51] <Dude-Meister> I need to compare DDR3 ECC vs DDR4 ECC pricing, as well as CPU pricing to determine which socket I'll land on. The x11SCH-F looks AMAZING, but - well - I liek that fact that YOU have one! :) Maybe in a few years when you sell it on eBay, I'll buy it! hehehe
337[03:43:42] <Dude-Meister> oxek, do you knwo if the c200 chipset causes any trouble? (Yeah, I need to check out that other channel you suggested. That's really more of a kernal question that a distro Q, I'd suspect.
358[04:11:24] <somiaj> Dude-Meister: of course once you decide on some hardware, look up the linux kernel support, with bullseye being released soon, you would need support in that kernel.
407[05:14:32] <nickgaw> Hi, Does anyone know if there are places where Ican upload my VMware player virtual machine to and a service will host it for me as a virtual private server where it would be running with ssh access or however I had configured the virtual machine?
444[06:12:01] <somiaj> diogenes_: why? polls are really poor questions. I belive debian 8 still has LTS support for another year and assume some are using it, but does it matter if anyone is still running it?
445[06:12:17] <somiaj> There are pople who still run much older debian releases.
446[06:13:02] <somiaj> oh guess I'm a year off, LTS support for debian 8 ended june 30, 2020, but there is still ELTS support
448[06:13:35] <diogenes_> somiaj, i wonder if you can still run latest chrome on Debian 8 but without LTS.
449[06:14:00] <somiaj> well all LTS does is security fixes. I think the biggest problem would be building a chrome package for debian 8.
450[06:14:09] <somiaj> it takes a lot of time and memeory to build a browser.
451[06:14:45] <somiaj> You most likely cannot install any pre-built chrome packages. Though if you wanted a new brwoser, why do you need to run debian 8? What is your use case here?
454[06:19:09] <diogenes_> somiaj, the reason i'm asking it's because i want to leave a laptop with Debian 10 for my granny and i've created a service which only will update chrome but i won't be able to maintain her system for at least 2 years, by that time Debian 10 will EOL and i was wondering if chrome at least will stay up-to-date on EOL system.
456[06:20:55] <somiaj> chrome usually looses security support by the end of old stable, though with unattneded upgrades, you could keep up on all secuirty support (even via LTS)
457[06:21:26] <somiaj> though at this point, bullseye will be released in a couple of months, you could just make a point to go upgrade the laptop to bullseye to provide longer support
460[06:22:51] <somiaj> Just due to timing, I can't think of any way to assume you are going to have security support on a browser in debian 10 for 2+ years
461[06:24:02] <somiaj> but bullseye is quite close and currently in a freeze, so you could probably install that + unattended upgrades, and have a system that would self-upgrade for the next 2+ years (though not sure the best way to ensure unattneded-upgrades works on a laptop that might be off during its upgrade time)
463[06:24:23] <diogenes_> somiaj, yes but i'll be thousand of miles away and if something breaks then no one could help her, that's why i would rather not update the rest of the system.
464[06:24:52] <abff> diogenes_: give her a nice big icon thst opens ssh so you can call her and have her click it so you can do updates remotely :p
477[06:32:30] <somiaj> I think some desktops have a notifaction that can be used, so unattneded-upgrades only notifies the user there are upgrades, and a click of the button and she can upgrade it herself
478[06:32:46] <somiaj> not something I use, but I think such a thing exists
479[06:33:30] *** Quits: snowflake (~snowflake@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
560[09:02:30] <TheBigK02> FOSSGuy[m]: theres no switching needed if u decided to go to testing
561[09:02:45] <TheBigK02> be aware that we cant support if u have trouble after upgrading to testing
562[09:03:18] <TheBigK02> in general upgrading is fairly simple and is always the same. u do the latest updates of stable with update and dist-upgrade
563[09:03:33] <FOSSGuy[m]> No, I am on stable. But, i only want to switch to bullseye specifically until it bceomes stable. And then switch to stable.Is it possible?
571[09:04:41] <FOSSGuy[m]> What will happen to installed backport packages?
572[09:04:54] <TheBigK02> backports u just remove the sources.list... since backports are backported bullseye packages
573[09:05:09] <TheBigK02> i mean
574[09:05:14] <jelly> dpkg, buster->bullseye
575[09:05:14] <dpkg> In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "buster" to "bullseye", change "bullseye/updates" to "bullseye-security" on the security line; remove lines like buster-backports, debian-multimedia <dmo>, and other 3rd party repos as they are known to cause issues. apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. We're close to release so bullseye isn't a <moving target>. Please report upgrade bugs and serious problems with packages.
576[09:05:18] <TheBigK02> u remove the lines out of ur sources.list
607[09:18:50] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See replaced-url
608[09:19:32] <FOSSGuy[m]> I mean how will I get that in bullseye?
609[09:20:03] <jelly> that means it's already there
658[09:48:10] * FOSSGuy[m] uploaded an image: (36KiB) < replaced-url
659[09:48:23] <FOSSGuy[m]> Uploaded an image
660[09:48:39] <jelly> FOSSGuy[m], Debian has dozens of precreated system users. Sometimes the difnitions needs to be updated. Let it base-passwd do what it wants to do.
661[09:49:51] <jelly> this happens VERY often during a release upgrade
683[10:08:18] <jelly> imagine if everyone shared the latest useful news about a software component in debian
684[10:09:26] <jelly> also it's a) yesterday's news, literally, and b) there's better coverage at lwn replaced-url
685[10:13:24] <ratrace> well I'm sorry if I think it's very damned serious. supply chain attacks are _increasing_ lately, and hitting the core of the most, MOST vulnerable component on the PLANET, is news important to share.
690[10:19:17] <sigint> It's not new though, remember the "if (current->uid = 0)" from 2003? The only thing noticable in this case is that they do it "for science".
691[10:19:25] <jelly> ratrace, lots of things are very serious. Only a subset is relevant for a Debian tech support venue.
692[10:19:45] <jelly> this is excelty why we have an offtopic channel
693[10:20:12] <segamain> hey guys what do I do when a repository has no release file or when multiple repos have no release files and one can't update securely from them ?
701[10:23:58] <segamain> what other repos are there ?
702[10:24:08] <shtrb> jelly, but did anyone mention that on the offtopic channel ?
703[10:25:49] <jelly> segamain, which repos are you getting errors for?
704[10:26:07] <jelly> I assumed it was some non debian.org stuff
705[10:26:12] <jelly> !bat
706[10:26:12] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
707[10:26:41] <alkisg> Hi, I had a wheezy installation that was fully updated using wheezy/updates. Then I switched apt sources to point to archive.debian.org.
708[10:26:41] <alkisg> My problem is that my installed packages are newer than the ones in that repository, so some dependencies can't be satisfied when I try to install new packages.
709[10:26:41] <alkisg> Question, is wheezy/updates somehow available in replaced-url
710[10:27:53] <jelly> alkisg, is it possible you had wheezy-backports, or wheezy-lts enabled in addition to normal repos
711[10:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1054
712[10:28:32] <alkisg> Hmm, my libc6 is 2.13-38+deb7u12 instead of 2.13-38+deb7u10 in that repository. I don't think I had backports or lts.
717[10:31:53] <alkisg> In the link it says that in point releases, updates go to the point release; and maybe security has the one after the point release?
725[10:32:47] <jelly> I seem to also have the same version from 500 replaced-url
726[10:33:14] <jelly> elts repo did have a complete copy of wheezy embedded
727[10:33:54] <alkisg> The point of that vm is to test some things for compatibility, thanks, it would probably make sense to enable the freexian repo as most currently wheezy users would indeed have that
728[10:35:17] <jelly> We also have wheezy systems only for... compatibility. Of course.
748[10:49:42] <ksk> segamain: this is #Debian, we do not support Ubuntu. Nor is it supported to include Ubuntu PPAs in a Debian installation.
749[10:49:44] <shtrb> !ubuntu
750[10:49:44] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
764[11:05:28] *** Quits: OlCe (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
765[11:05:30] <ksk> segamain: if you want "software" on Debian, you check: a) is it in debian (+ backports) b) is there a repo for debian managed upstream c) is there debian packages d) is there docker/flatpack/whatnot e) is there a binary release for debian f) is there sourcecode
798[12:05:37] <netcrash> Hello, My computer acting as a gateway from time to time stops accessing the internet. It's based on a dhcp ip , I think that the renewal of the IP is breaking the connection. How can I make debian use dhcp-client to obtain an ip and renew it. Currently I only have in interface file the iface xxx inet dhcp
806[12:12:31] <alkisg> netcrash: run `ip a` and check if your "valid_lft" value is indeed about to expire. Also check with `ps faux` if dhclient is running
807[12:12:57] *** Quits: luuuciano_ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
850[12:53:11] <Foxfir3> sigint: [Lemmy]: okay. you were joking
851[12:53:40] <avu> [Lemmy]: what are the autocmd lines? Perhaps they refer to some other files that are not present or in a different location on your Debian install?
852[12:54:19] <[Lemmy]> autocmd FileType yaml setlocal ai ts=2 sw=2 et cc=3,5,7,9,11
853[12:54:19] <[Lemmy]> autocmd FileType python setlocal ai ts=4 sw=4 et
854[12:54:36] <[Lemmy]> they work just fine on any other linux i have here
878[13:03:49] <[Lemmy]> Foxfir3: "problems" need solving. if you think the license needs solving, you obviously think its a problem - please elaborate.
882[13:05:41] <Foxfir3> [Lemmy]: license is one matter. Another is possiblity to communicate with the editor. but its not important. I just wondered why some are still using Brams Vim
883[13:06:21] <[Lemmy]> what do you mean "communicate with the editor" - something like siri on iphones?
884[13:06:23] <Foxfir3> [Lemmy]: running Suse here as well. Trying to convert to Debian. So same position.
885[13:06:56] <[Lemmy]> oh i'm definitely not "converting" to debian - but i have 4 raspis and a box running k3s on buster as well
886[13:06:57] <Foxfir3> [Lemmy]: Neovim can run anywhere and hook up with anything
887[13:07:20] <[Lemmy]> oh you mean control the editor from scripts and such?
888[13:07:31] <Foxfir3> [Lemmy]: oh.. nice. would like to try pure debian on RPi4
889[13:07:40] <[Lemmy]> ... i just use jinja2 templates and ansible - no need to hook something to an editor
890[13:07:59] <[Lemmy]> i would like to have a turingpi with pi4 based compute boards
891[13:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1069
892[13:08:10] <[Lemmy]> but we can't always have nice things
893[13:08:12] <Foxfir3> [Lemmy]: yup. low level API. but its been a few years since I did some reading on it, so im a little afraid of the wolves here
894[13:08:52] <[Lemmy]> i'm just looking at my home network and i'm thinking what the f*ck am i doing
895[13:09:23] <[Lemmy]> TWO ansible tower, a kubernetes, 4 raspis, ntop, grafana, and and and
919[13:28:05] <Foxfir3> [Lemmy]: I just read through Brams 'Charityware' license. Money and control. Fair enough. Basically he wants free dev, and the checks send to Switzerland. Im just too old to fall for that crap. Seen too many fake priests.
958[13:38:48] <ratrace> netcrash_: typically you set up interfaces(5) to use DHCP. you don't have to enable any service in particular, other than default networking.service
962[13:39:59] <ratrace> I mean, your original question describes a typical DHCP based network setup, so other than setting it up as such, I'm not sure what else you think you need?
1172[15:22:49] <Urk> Does anyone have experience installing Debian on a Dell 7590? I am trying to install Debian 10.7 from a memory stick, and at the point of installing the wireless driver, but the install it not proceeding.
1175[15:23:34] <ratrace> Urk: which ISO were you using?
1176[15:23:45] <inbe4> Hello everyone!
1177[15:23:48] <Lope> jelly, no, it doesn't start with an s :) :(
1178[15:24:10] <jelly> Lope, not a socket, then
1179[15:24:13] <Urk> ratrace: Debian stable 10.7
1180[15:24:17] <wyoung> You got delled
1181[15:24:37] *** Quits: nicopok (~nicopok@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1182[15:24:55] <ratrace> Urk: so if that's not a "firmware image" ... what "wireless driver" installation phase? or are you confusing with "setting up wireless network" for and by the installer?
1186[15:26:20] <inbe4> Howcan I get involved in the Debian project? Been using it for a while, on both server and desktop. Basically what I can do to get started.
1187[15:26:35] <jelly> Lope, sure, if ls -ld says something like srwxrwxrwx ...
1188[15:26:53] <Urk> ratrace: I am at the "Detect network hardware" phase of the installation, and I'm being prompted to select a driver for the ethernet card. Options I see are iwlwifi: Inte(R) Wuireless WiFi driver for Linux, and a couple of other Intel drivers for linux, but believe the iwlwifi to be one that should work.
1194[15:28:07] <jelly> Urk, did you pick the "unofficial" netinst image with firmware
1195[15:28:17] <jelly> !firmware images
1196[15:28:17] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
1197[15:28:20] <Urk> Today I am buying a hardwire kit from Dell since wireless installation is so difficult. This particular laptop has its own proprietary hardware kit instead of an RJ47
1198[15:28:47] <wyoung> Urk: Dell is all about proprietary
1199[15:29:14] <jelly> Urk, ^ use that, intel wifi requires non-free firmware and standard images ship without it
1203[15:30:12] <ratrace> for some reason, you're posing that in form of a question :)
1204[15:30:23] <ratrace> %s/sing/sting/
1205[15:30:34] <Urk> ratrace: Don't recall, and its been more than a month since I downloaded the images. However, I recall having a lot of difficulty with the previous install. Previous installation crashed after running the Chmod command.
1236[15:39:43] <ratrace> I imagine it expired by now. nevertheless ... mods seemed to have no issue with the said person's ..... alcohol + alprazolam abusing escapades, so I don't see a reason to descend into that cesspool anyhoo :)
1237[15:40:35] <shtrb> Urk, sometimes it's better to get a kernel from backports
1242[15:43:35] <Urk> shtrb: Any suggestions for a URL? I'm looking at replaced-url
1243[15:44:07] <shtrb> I don't know what hardware you have , so I can't say
1244[15:44:11] <shtrb> !backports
1245[15:44:12] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
1246[15:44:16] <shtrb> Urk, ^
1247[15:45:21] <oxek> Urk: you're looking at the wrong place, you want replaced-url
1248[15:45:22] <inbe4> I just upgraded to bullseye, works flawlessly so far
1249[15:45:36] <inbe4> No manual interventions at all, which is neat
1250[15:46:18] <oxek> inbe4: that will be useful information in here, once bullseye is actually released
1251[15:46:22] <shtrb> !unoffical
1252[15:46:34] <shtrb> !firmware
1253[15:46:34] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
1262[15:48:06] <oxek> I think I'm using the same voice-to-text as you
1263[15:48:23] <inbe4> oxek: Is the current testing branch not something to discuss on here?
1264[15:48:31] <oxek> !debian-next
1265[15:48:32] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1285[16:14:36] <ghostwander> hi i trying create private bridge tor i can created but after enable iptables and drop all another port input and all another output port tor can connect and bootstrapt stop %5 i trying open port use this command: sudo iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --sport _myport -j ACCEPT and sudo ipabels -I OUTPUT -p tcp --dport _myport -j ACCEPT but after again restart tor can't connetion
1286[16:14:42] *** Quits: lemur (~l3m@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1352[17:22:11] <Dude-Meister> hi greycat - on the chance you may have a good resource, I'm looking for information that will help me to decypher ACPI error messages at bootup.
1388[17:49:37] <greycat> You... should, yes. If there are actually any changes worth rebooting for.
1389[17:49:41] <Juerd> wigums: Strictly speaking, no. But if you never reboot but do upgrades, you'll eventually run into missing features in the running kernel.
1390[17:50:08] <wigums> thx
1391[17:50:12] <greycat> the question was about systemd, not the kernel
1392[17:50:35] <Juerd> greycat: Systemd relies on kernel features and it's likely a future version will require a future kernel.
1394[17:51:07] <Juerd> If that goes out of sync too much, you end up with something that requires manual intervention
1395[17:51:16] <greycat> it's *extremely* unlikely that a change to systemd in a stable release will require a kernel change as well, but IN EITHER CASE, the question was whether you have to reboot after systemd is updated. you do, if you want the new features.
1401[17:52:37] <jelly> "you need a minimum kernel XXX with CONFIG_THIS and CONFIG_THAT"
1402[17:53:02] <Juerd> jelly: What about sid?
1403[17:53:13] <jelly> what about it
1404[17:53:23] <Juerd> It has no releases, so no release notes? :)
1405[17:53:34] <greycat> we don't care about sid here
1406[17:53:36] <jelly> sid is supposed to break your stuff, that's a feature
1407[17:53:56] <jelly> then you figure out what broke and fix or report it
1408[17:54:38] <Juerd> Yes, and that's how I learned that systemd can at some point become to rely on a newer kernel. I run sid on a few boxes that are used heavily, but get uptimes that are way too high.
1409[17:54:41] <Juerd> (For fun)
1410[17:55:11] <Juerd> And if sid is supposed to break my stuff it's doing a terrible, terrible job. That only happens once every few years. :)
1411[17:55:57] <jelly> what's a load average od 1000 around friends
1412[17:56:10] <jelly> of*
1413[17:56:26] <jelly> oh you actually meant uptimes :-)
1438[18:05:15] <ratrace> but kexec is often misunderstood "loading new kernel without reboot".... yes.... but. it kills ALL the processes. so it's just as if you rebooted, sans the actual grub sequence
1439[18:05:31] <jelly> Mister00X, that just shortcuts POST, youstill get a new kernel and all the processes are lost
1473[18:28:51] <greycat> there's also a question of whether you're using some sort of UID/name mapping, which will depend on which version of nfs you're doing, and how you configured it
1475[18:30:18] <dob1> greycat, so I have to mount it specifying uid and gid ?
1476[18:30:22] <greycat> No.
1477[18:30:49] <greycat> You got a file system. It has files and shit. Those files have OWNERS and GROUPS and PERMISSIONS. Your current process has a UID and a GID and a set of SUPPLEMENTARY GROUPS.
1483[18:33:51] <dob1> greycat, I don't understand sorry. the only solution I see it's to modify on the server the dir permissions and the owner of that dir and export it, you was referring to this? on the client I can't do nothing
1484[18:34:14] <dob1> or I am not able to do nothing
1485[18:35:19] <greycat> It is possible that you may have the wrong permissions or owner on the file, on the server, yes. It's also possible that you may have some *OTHER* problem. This would be the point where you start revealing details.
1486[18:36:44] *** Quits: szorfein (~daggoth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1488[18:37:16] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Quit: Je m'en vais ...)
1489[18:37:57] <karlpinc> dob1: One of greycat's points is that the fs you're mounting has uids and gids. The system you're on has uids and gids. If they don't match then your users and groups won't get access to what you expect. So, if they don't match you need to map between the uids and gids of the box and the mounted fs.
1499[18:43:07] <dpkg> Please ask sicco questions, questions that are Specific, Informative, Concise, Complete, and On-topic. Ask me about <research> and <cooperation in asking for help>.
1500[18:43:09] <dob1> the dir is owned by an user with id 1000/gid 1000, it's 700 (this is the problem), on /etc/exports I have "/mnt/data3 192.168.1.238/32(rw)" on the client I just mount it with "mount 192.168.1.51:/mnt/data3 /mnt" but I can't access to it as root because it's 700 and owned by the user that has uid/gid 1000 on the client. I cannot chmod it too
1502[18:44:12] <greycat> If the directory (not a file apparently) is (rwx------ 1000 1000) and you are running as user 1000 on the client then you should be able to read/write to that directory, because you are its owner. Are you not user 1000 on the client?
1503[18:44:31] <dob1> greycat, I would like to use root on the client
1504[18:44:42] * greycat reads some more. Ah, you are ROOT on the client! TADA! Problem finally revealed.
1506[18:45:00] <greycat> You forgot to turn on no_root_squash in the export options.
1507[18:46:39] <greycat> by default, NFS version 3 :"squashes" root (maps UID 0 on the client to UID 65535/nobody on the server). This is to prevent a malicious client from just destroying everything.
1536[19:01:11] <greycat> I, personally, have *never* fucked around with non-default NFS uid/gid mapping. If you can figure out how to set up a mapping of your choice, fine. I just do the traditional thing and make the usernames and UIDs consistent across the entire LAN.
1539[19:01:59] <greycat> And the only time I use no_root_squash is for mounting stuff on the machine that's doing the backups and therefore has to be able to read everything.
1794[21:14:35] <unixbsd> is there a way to compile hatari without cmake and all this junk of compilation crap? hatari package has become so badly to compile.
1795[21:15:09] <ratrace> unixbsd: compile? why not apt install it?
1796[21:15:23] <unixbsd> to compile from source, mostly I compile all from source.
1797[21:15:30] <ratrace> unixbsd: why?
1798[21:15:52] <greycat> So you're complaining about your own self-inflicted restrictions which have nothing to do with Debian?
1799[21:16:01] <unixbsd> because it is way cleaner when I do myself the package. the compilation development had many strange things into the packages.
1800[21:16:05] <ratrace> unixbsd: I think you're using the wrong distro for that. gentoo is very much oriented exactly for that: building everything from source.
1801[21:16:19] <unixbsd> not way big difference.
1802[21:16:41] <ratrace> it is extreme pain to build everything from source in debian. it is not meant to be used like that.
1803[21:16:53] <unixbsd> why pain?
1804[21:17:01] <ratrace> main problem is keeping track of upgrades. you don't get notified when there's an upgrade.
1805[21:17:14] <karlpinc> All the same, we're here to support debian. Compiling is something that you're supposed to be able to do in debian.
1810[21:17:40] <greycat> And he is able to do it. He's just complaining that he doesn't like it. Even though he chose it.
1811[21:17:43] <karlpinc> (Not to say that y'all are not right about compiling everything.)
1812[21:17:43] <shtrb> unixbsd, who is your own build cleaner ?
1813[21:17:46] <ratrace> karlpinc: oh yes, yes. I'm referring to "mostly I compile all from source". debian simply isn't designed to be used like that
1814[21:18:03] <shtrb> *Why is your build cleaner ?
1815[21:18:04] <ratrace> unixbsd: it's not "known in linux". gentoo does not have such problems
1816[21:18:08] <unixbsd> I build myself, so I had only the minimum.
1817[21:18:15] <sney> unixbsd: hatari's upstream chose the cmake build system, so you are probably stuck with it. if you want to modify for a different system, you should talk to hatari's developers. debian simply integrates what is provided by upstream
1818[21:18:29] <unixbsd> there is no dev on freenode
1819[21:18:30] <sney> the rest of you: good luck trying to convince unixbsd not to do things the hard way, lol. many have tried, none have succeeded
1820[21:18:33] <unixbsd> (of hatari).
1821[21:18:36] <sney> unixbsd: perhaps you have heard of "email"
1822[21:18:48] <ratrace> sney: hah
1823[21:18:57] <unixbsd> I dont use email - I wrote them already, they dont care.
1824[21:19:05] <greycat> oh, just fuck this. *plonk*
1825[21:19:11] <ratrace> hahahaha
1826[21:19:15] <sney> then the answer to your initial question is probably "no."
1827[21:19:25] <unixbsd> ah.
1828[21:19:49] <unixbsd> well maybe our job would be to clean in the source the way it compiles, like making it like ports for debian.
1829[21:20:16] <ratrace> unixbsd: it's called gentoo. literally "portage" is bsd ports on linux, for linux, in a fully developed environment.
1830[21:20:21] <shtrb> unixbsd, you can try to use quilt and patch the build for autotools it would be so much fun
1831[21:20:31] <unixbsd> Ports are the only viable solution for keeping software#s there.
1832[21:20:48] <ratrace> and "ports" in linux is called "portage", and gentoo is built around that.
1834[21:20:59] <sney> debian only does extra work to fix upstream's code if there are significant problems, in the hopes that upstream will adopt those fixes. second-guessing upstream because "waah cmake sucks" is not in that scope.
1835[21:21:00] <unixbsd> shtrb: well, I did this for many packages, but I cannot do that huge work for all GNU.
1843[21:24:20] <unixbsd> no idea, I know that modern compilation methods are not so much very much popular -- nowadays. It is hard to keeep good software... best example: try to compile from source the opus master: Mumble... this is this one that showed me everything about how modern compilation can be. Even better, Planeshift. this one is also a hell to get compiled.
1844[21:25:22] <unixbsd> I dont know if this all goes like this, we or debian , us basically will have to think about adding somehow "Ports".
1859[21:41:19] <shtrb> Urk, that's evil but also you are missing a slash in the path
1860[21:43:09] <shtrb> Urk, also it's /dev/sdc and not dev/sdc1 also make sure it's the correct place to write and not your hardrive !
1861[21:44:06] <Mister00X> I doubt you want a 230GB boot stick
1862[21:45:14] <Urk> shtrb: I included the results of lsblk so it appears to be the correct place to write.
1863[21:45:34] <Urk> shtrb: Where does this missing slash go? I don't see the spot. Can you show me an example?
1864[21:45:46] <Mister00X> /dev/sdc
1865[21:45:53] <shtrb> Urk you have 230 GB flash ?!
1866[21:46:19] <Urk> sdc1 and sdc2 are two partitions on my usb. And yes, I have a 230GB flash drive, and it is a tiny thing. Its super fast. I think it is USB 3.2
1871[21:48:43] *** ctrlbreak_MAD is now known as ctrlbreak
1872[21:48:54] <Mister00X> shtrb: maybe you should mention that this will overwrite the whole drive as oposed to one partition
1873[21:48:56] <Urk> shtrb: the example I sawa on the net allowed the bs=4M to be at the beginning of the command. However, the past I put it at the end. Could that be the problem?
1874[21:49:35] *** Quits: kale (~kale@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1875[21:49:51] <shtrb> Urk, no , it's ok , your problem is just the path, as Mister00X had said (and I assume you understood it) it will destroy all the data on the disk
1879[21:50:17] <Urk> Mister00X: I would like to write different things to the partition since I still may need other installation software for the installation.. I have a newer computer, and the particular distro I would like to install has been a bit slow in adapting to the new hardware.
1882[21:51:13] <shtrb> Urk, does your flash have grub or something like that so it could be loaded or your UEFI support selecting a parttion on UEFI to load from ?
1895[21:53:14] <Urk> shtrb: ok, I guess I forgot to put a / in front of dev. I am now burning to sdc1. I am going to save sdc2 for other installation software since I don't know whether or not Debian 10.9 got some of the bugs out of the installation package. 10.8 had a lot of problems, and missing software that was required for the installation, and I don't have the proprietary hard wire for hooking up to ethernet. However, today I am going to order one
1896[21:53:14] <Urk> from Dell.
1897[21:54:01] <shtrb> Unless you had done specific modifications you will not be able to boot that
1907[21:57:53] <shtrb> Urk, the easiest (and the most correct way if you are asking that) would be to overwrite the entire disk (and not just the partition) or even remaster the orignal iso to include the data you need install later
1937[22:04:12] *** Quits: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
1938[22:04:12] <shtrb> Yes, either to write from an iso that support o the entire flash or to have grub installed on the flash drive that could load iso or parttions (ON the flash drive itself), but it's safer for you just to ovrwrite the enire drive
1939[22:04:24] <shtrb> !non-free
1940[22:04:24] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
1941[22:05:16] <Urk> karlpinc: Would you know of the URL/link?
1942[22:05:35] <Urk> I want to be able to boot from a partition if at all possible.
1943[22:05:52] <shtrb> Just overwrite the entire flash drive
1944[22:06:27] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1945[22:06:32] <Urk> shtrb: I want to be able to use half the drive for storing drivers not bundled in 10.9 Is this possible?
1946[22:06:45] <Urk> I booted 10.7 from a partition with no problem.
1947[22:06:59] <karlpinc> !firmware images
1948[22:07:00] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
1949[22:07:04] <shtrb> yes, it's possible but I'm afraid you are going to waste too much time on it
1950[22:07:11] *** Quits: Urk (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1951[22:07:33] <karlpinc> Urk: But you'll want to change the "current" part of the url. (To "testing"??)
1956[22:08:49] <Urk> I was talking to some folks about booting from a partition.
1957[22:09:13] <shtrb> yes, I told your best way is to overwrite the entire disk with your image that has firmaware
1958[22:10:31] *** tomreyn_ is now known as tomreyn
1959[22:11:01] <Urk> shtrb: Is that the only way? I would like to boot from a partition, and not use the entire disk if at all possible.
1960[22:12:04] <shtrb> There is also a way to have grub installed on that disk , and to let grub to load an iso or parttion , in fact you can even install entire debian on the flash drive and also have d-i iso there
1970[22:17:18] <Urk> I just tried using cfdisk to make the partition bootable, but not sure I did it correctly.
1971[22:17:37] <jmcnaught> Urk: did you read replaced-url
1972[22:18:06] <jmcnaught> Urk: there is a flag that says in bold "Important" then: "The image must be written to the whole-disk device and not a partition, e.g. /dev/sdb and not /dev/sdb1."
1995[22:30:32] *** Quits: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1996[22:31:21] <ircuser5678> hi. I've got a huawei matebook d14 (intel i5) and it doesn't find the network card (tried to install testing free/non-free). missing firmware files "iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-jf-bo-59.ucode" ... up to "-39.ucode". where exactly can I get them?
1997[22:32:03] <sney> from the firmware-iwlwifi package, if it's newer you probably just need the one in buster-backports.
2018[22:43:36] <Urk> I'm wondering if I created the install disk incorrectly? Instructions at the following URL indicate I should make the partition bootable before creating the file system, and burn the disk last. replaced-url
2029[22:45:13] *** canopus is now known as pierrot
2030[22:45:20] <unixbsd> If I can find bit of time, I will make for you a minimum tarball with debian with modules and kernel. Which debian release do you need
2043[22:55:29] <jmcnaught> Urk: maybe you missed the second *Important* warning on that page: "Simply writing the CD or DVD image to USB like this should work fine for most users. The other options below are more complex, mainly for people with specialised needs."
2044[22:55:46] <ratrace> unixbsd: the official ISOs are more than sufficient.
2045[22:56:14] <unixbsd> well, if he does iso hybrid to harddisk... then I get worried.
2046[22:56:53] <jmcnaught> Urk: all you need to do is run "cp debian.iso /dev/sdc" *without* a partition number, then run "sync" and that is all, the USB stick will be ready for installation.
2047[22:57:51] <oxek> careful about suggesting /dev/sdc, some just copy paste
2048[22:58:38] <jmcnaught> They were using /dev/sdc1 in an earlier paste but yes, Urk should be careful to use the correct drive.
2094[23:28:54] <cws> Lastly, there is nothing wrong with writing a hybrid ISO to a hard drive. It's a bit wasteful if you intend to have that as a bootable medium long term, but its the same mechanism as burning it to any mass storage device, USB or otherwise.