People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:04] <Caesar_NayKid> Ah ok so i see the hidden files now but looks like I didn't create that.
1 [00:00:16] <Caesar_NayKid> And probably because i was logged in as root..
2 [00:00:19] <Caesar_NayKid> Haha
3 [00:00:33] <sney> yep, when logged in as root, ~ refers to /root
4 [00:00:53] <oztunan> Wait, now I have a question, I accidentally joined this room. I meant to join the room on the OFTC server. Is this an official debian IRC room?
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6 [00:01:07] <sney> I prefer to type whole paths when switching back and forth between a regular user and root, so I don't get the "where did that file go" situation
7 [00:01:12] <oztunan> Sorry to interrupt
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9 [00:01:17] <avu> oztunan: no, the "official" one is on OFTC
10 [00:01:22] <oztunan> ok
11 [00:01:28] <avu> oztunan: it's smaller than this one here though :)
12 [00:01:31] <sney> oztunan: there is a lot of overlap though, many helpers are in both channels
13 [00:01:35] <sney> !oftc move
14 [00:01:35] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
15 [00:02:16] <oztunan> wow, thanks. Funny how many things I learn by accident.
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17 [00:02:40] <Caesar_NayKid> It looks like it didn't create that file in the root /home folder under root user though
18 [00:03:10] <Caesar_NayKid> Is that possible?
19 [00:03:37] <Caesar_NayKid> If i was logged in as root and did nano ~/.smbcredentials
20 [00:03:44] <sney> you probably just mistyped something. it's not a big deal, it's a text file. make it again in the right place with the right name this time, and then save it.
21 [00:03:48] <Caesar_NayKid> Where would you expect to see that
22 [00:03:58] <sney> that would be /root/.smbcredentials
23 [00:04:01] <Caesar_NayKid> I made the correct one
24 [00:04:26] <Caesar_NayKid> Yep
25 [00:04:29] <Caesar_NayKid> There it is
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29 [00:06:38] <Caesar_NayKid> I know I don't really gotta worry about it but it gives me practice navigating and switching users in terminal so worth it i feel to do the stuff that's probably internalized by everyone else haha
30 [00:06:58] <Caesar_NayKid> Thanks. I rm the root one
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38 [00:13:22] <Caesar_NayKid> Mount error(22)
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90 [01:12:53] <acu> sney - thank you for zfs channel pointer - I got good advise there
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92 [01:15:34] <sney> np
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100 [01:35:42] <acu> !zfs
101 [01:35:42] <dpkg> ZFS (originally Zettabyte File System) is a file system / logical volume manager developed by Sun Microsystems (replaced-url
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108 [01:58:52] <acu> !raidz
109 [01:59:03] <dvs> raid!
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113 [02:00:48] <mikhayo> helloooo
114 [02:01:15] <sney> !ask
115 [02:01:15] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
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241 [05:45:55] <jhutchins> If you actually have a zetabyte of data on one filesystem, you're managing it wrong.
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244 [05:49:34] <oxek> is there a zettabyte of data already though?
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258 [06:19:33] <c4pt00> replaced-url
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264 [06:26:53] <billybigrigger> hey all, im having an issue with proxmox, which is debian based, i know this might not be supported here, but it's a basic OS question....
265 [06:28:26] <billybigrigger> my OS installed drive is detected as /dev/sdi, when i hot plug a drive into bay 2 of my server, it gets detected as /dev/sda, which in turn cause proxmox to freak out and unmount all the VM storage for some reason....according to mount it's got some automapper thing going on....
266 [06:28:50] <billybigrigger> mount shows............. /dev/mapper/pve-root on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
267 [06:29:07] <billybigrigger> and fstab shows /dev/mapper/pve-root on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
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269 [06:29:58] <billybigrigger> is there anyway i can force that drive to be recognized as sda like every other distro? so when i hot plug a drive into a bay it grabs /dev/sdb,c,d-z etfc
270 [06:30:01] <billybigrigger> etc
271 [06:30:13] <billybigrigger> and is it safe?
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273 [06:30:40] <jmcnaught> billybigrigger: that is LVM the logical volume manager, to give you a search term. But unfortunately proxmox is not supported here.
274 [06:32:36] <billybigrigger> ughh
275 [06:32:48] <billybigrigger> bout to go back to esxi lol fuck proxmox :P
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282 [06:46:22] <billybigrigger> jmcnaught can you help me accomplish what i want to do?
283 [06:46:24] <billybigrigger> never used lvm before
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315 [06:50:51] <jmcnaught> billybigrigger: replaced-url
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318 [06:51:05] <jmcnaught> !proxmox
319 [06:51:05] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
320 [06:51:24] <jmcnaught> billybigrigger: ^^ try the ##proxmox channel
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349 [07:14:33] <billybigrigger> im trying, nobody is helpful
350 [07:14:37] <billybigrigger> back to esxi
351 [07:14:40] <billybigrigger> :P
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479 [10:01:27] <HyP3r> Short Question: when under Debian 10 the /etc/network/interfaces files is empty (aswell the /etc/network/interfaces.d directory). What system is starting the dhcp-clientß
480 [10:01:42] <HyP3r> I'm not sure if then systemd-network is active
481 [10:02:33] <ratrace> HyP3r: NetworkManager? do you have a desktop installed?
482 [10:03:19] *** Quits: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ........)
483 [10:04:06] <HyP3r> ratrace: a system without gui. I have no NetworkManager installed
484 [10:04:43] <klys> # systemctl status NetworkManager
485 [10:04:56] <ratrace> I'm not aware of anything automatically starting dhclient for an autodetected network interface ... are you sure that's going on?
486 [10:05:15] <HyP3r> klys: Unit NetworkManager.service could not be found.
487 [10:05:37] <ratrace> HyP3r: what about `networkctl` ? perhaps networkd is in effect?
488 [10:05:50] <klys> # pstree | less; /dhcp
489 [10:05:51] <HyP3r> systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.
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491 [10:06:29] <HyP3r> systemctl status dhcpcd5.service seems like I have this installed
492 [10:06:36] <klys> for pids it's # pstree -p | less
493 [10:06:49] <ratrace> ahh dhcpcd ... that's not dhclient ...
494 [10:07:07] <ratrace> I mean ... it IS a DHCP client program. it's not "dhclient" one
495 [10:07:40] <HyP3r> Yeah now it make sence
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497 [10:07:49] <ratrace> ,i isc-dhcp-client
498 [10:07:51] <judd> Package isc-dhcp-client (net, important) in buster/amd64: DHCP client for automatically obtaining an IP address. Version: 4.4.1-2; Size: 331.5k; Installed: 673k; Homepage: replaced-url
499 [10:08:00] <ratrace> ,i dhcpcd5
500 [10:08:02] <judd> Package dhcpcd5 (net, optional) in buster/amd64: DHCPv4, IPv6RA and DHCPv6 client with IPv4LL support. Version: 7.1.0-2; Size: 159.6k; Installed: 395k; Homepage: replaced-url
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506 [10:13:20] <jhutchins> Does anybody actually read their logs?
507 [10:14:35] <ratrace> yeah but it's not clear from the logs what's actually starting it. with dhcp, seems like there's a service for dhcpcd. afaik there's no such service for dhclient, and networkd has its own implementation. NM starts dhclient directly too
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511 [10:17:42] <jhutchins> journqlctl
512 [10:17:44] <jelly> jhutchins, no, but sometimes we set up machine learning to warn about unusual crap
513 [10:18:08] <jelly> if you mean "read logs preemptively"
514 [10:18:32] <ratrace> it's not clear from the logs what started a particular .service unit
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519 [10:20:20] <TheBigK02> and i also dont like the attitude of "dumb" questions. that's exactly why ppl shy away from things like Linux
520 [10:22:08] <jelly> which questions are giving you attitude?!
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525 [10:26:35] <TheBigK02> Does anybody actually read their logs? <- sounds like attitude to me... atleast if its related to the question of judd
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527 [10:26:43] <TheBigK02> if its not... i misunderstood
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539 [10:44:39] <jhutchins> TheBigK02: I have to admit that Windows logs are useless, and people with only Windows background don't have the instinct to search out logs and actually read them.
540 [10:45:31] <jhutchins> TheBigK02: Yeah, I got attitude, but really, that's a basic troublshooting stage.
541 [10:46:31] <jhutchins> We often have people posting logs that they haven't read, or error messages that say "do this", and they don't.
542 [10:46:48] <TheBigK02> jhutchins: its als an easy answer. let the beginner ask easy questions. u can also then reply in a way that they can help themselves for the next issue.
543 [10:48:01] <magpi> Windows definitely teaches learned helplessness
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545 [10:49:08] <TheBigK02> i dont think u can blame everything on the windows environment...
546 [10:49:15] <TheBigK02> i want to... but i cant :D
547 [10:49:31] <jhutchins> It doesn't say "this went wrong because of that"
548 [10:49:59] <TheBigK02> and on the windows front some stuff actually improves. i like the event logger ... in a weird way... not everything about it... but some stuff has improved
549 [10:50:03] <ratrace> you have to realize people supporting here are volunteers offering their free and unpaid time. of the people asking questions don't do minimum due diligence to help themselves ... after years of that crap ... people get an attitude.
550 [10:50:09] <ratrace> *if the
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552 [10:50:45] <ratrace> same goes for LMGTFY . it's deemded rude but so many times it's the actual answer
553 [10:50:51] <TheBigK02> ratrace: i get that. im sometimes in that mood as well. but i try to be better than that :D
554 [10:51:13] <jhutchins> Well, It's a teachable habit.
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556 [10:51:50] <TheBigK02> i might be stupid .. but it took me a long time to figure out how where to find stuff...
557 [10:52:07] <TheBigK02> *+ and :)
558 [10:52:30] <TheBigK02> reading manpages was the hardest thing for me at the beginning... but that might be also because my english was bad
559 [10:52:37] <jhutchins> TheBigK02: No, we all start out fairly ignorant.
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561 [10:52:44] <TheBigK02> may be its still bad... but hey... i can atleast understand what ppl say :D
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563 [10:53:38] <TheBigK02> what i rly learned to love is /usr/share/doc/$PACKAGE ... its so freaking good... i love those examples in there...
564 [10:54:05] <ratrace> I "love" when a manpage tells me to go read info :))
565 [10:54:15] <TheBigK02> :D
566 [10:54:20] * ratrace glares at coreutils
567 [10:54:30] <jhutchins> I had the advantage of being responsible for massive mainframes with really complecated systems.
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570 [10:55:34] <jhutchins> ratrace: Yeah, packager couldn't be bothered to run a simple conversion script.
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574 [10:59:20] * jelly ogles jhutchins' massive mainframes
575 [11:01:21] <ratrace> put it on oglaf dot com!
576 [11:03:33] <jhutchins> Yeah, well SUNY Binggamton had an IBL home base at the time, we did OK.
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578 [11:04:01] <jhutchins> Gah, IBM of course.
579 [11:04:07] <ratrace> mainframes still going strong
580 [11:04:52] <jhutchins> Yeah, VPNs and monster crunching.
581 [11:05:51] <ratrace> IMB Z, "z" for zero downtime ... unless you put a railgun bolt into it at supersonic velicities :) you can't do that to a cloud. the bolt passes right through it :)
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583 [11:06:47] <jhutchins> Yeah there is no such thing as zero downtime.
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585 [11:07:20] <jhutchins> There will be downtime. There will be data loss. Deal.
586 [11:07:36] <ratrace> still, impressive machines.
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592 [11:20:34] <shtrb> Stupid question but is there a UI option to invert x/y for mice (using X and debian buster) ? the mouse had lost a lens (so now when I move the mouse up and down it move left to right and if I move left to right it moves up an down) and now I wish to invert the axys in software level
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605 [11:42:29] <ratrace> shtrb: something something xorg.conf Option "InvertX" "true" something
606 [11:43:06] <themill> Put your monitor on its side?
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608 [11:43:53] <ratrace> if only there was an information system one could query for random stuff :) replaced-url
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611 [11:45:15] <shtrb> :D sorry
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613 [11:45:37] <shtrb> I was searching for a UI option not xorg config I'm trying to tech support over phone a non technical plasma user
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615 [11:46:03] <shtrb> but thatnks
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617 [11:50:57] <ratrace> their problem and solution is quite technical tho....
618 [11:51:04] <ratrace> unless.... srsly.... buy a new mouse.
619 [11:52:09] <ratrace> "Do you want a $5, $99 or $999 tip?" "$5: buy a new mouse" "$99: start a terminal, type sudo nano /etc...." "$999: start a terminal, type sudo vim /etc/...."
620 [11:52:37] <ratrace> hwy is vim 999? because if they don't pay, you don't tell them how to exit :))))))
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622 [11:55:33] <shtrb> Covid19, older generation who minimize exposure , I do it for free
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638 [12:14:47] <jelly> ratrace, and sudoedit for $9999?
639 [12:15:24] <jelly> now they can use Notepad++ to edit sources.list
640 [12:15:43] <ratrace> for that money, the customer can take a pick axe to the computer, smash it to bits, and buy a new one, and even save half of it
641 [12:15:53] <jelly> ,v notepadqq
642 [12:15:54] <judd> Package: notepadqq on amd64 -- sid: 2.0.0~beta1-1+b1
643 [12:15:58] <ratrace> I mean, when the anger of being unable to quit vim gets to those levels
644 [12:16:00] <jelly> ooh, packaged
645 [12:16:19] <ratrace> get that windowsite soft WARE outta muh debians!
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647 [12:17:02] <jelly> it's in main beeyatch
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649 [12:18:41] <jelly> dpkg, why is notepadqq not in testing
650 [12:18:42] <dpkg> notepadqq is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
651 [12:19:01] <ratrace> mwahahahah!
652 [12:19:14] <jelly> ftbffs
653 [12:19:47] <jelly> and there's a patch already
654 [12:19:54] <ratrace> can't do! frozen! haha!
655 [12:19:57] <jelly> and it wasn't applied
656 [12:20:09] * jelly throws an EXCEPTION
657 [12:20:13] <ratrace> nonono, frozen! gone. come back for bookworm. thanksforplaying. ;)
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663 [12:39:34] <useless-eater> gvmd-common 20.8.0+git20201111-2 (formerly openvas) "Report outdated / end-of-life Scan Engine / Environment (local)" Severity 10 on all hosts scanned. Is there a good fix for this? I found a ugly workaround, but just cosmetic. At Debian Bullseye.
664 [12:42:04] <unborn> o0 notepad ? what? man even gedit is better than that anyway long life to geany and nano!
665 [12:43:35] <shtrb> but npp has hexditor built in ! (as a plugin )
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676 [13:05:59] <jelly> unborn, no, Notepad++
677 [13:06:19] <jelly> notepadqq is a clone of that one
678 [13:07:26] <unborn> jelly I know seen it all over youtube notepad quak quak as I call it.. why creating something which is already out there even better.
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680 [13:09:25] <ratrace> yes, we should all use just vim.
681 [13:09:40] <ratrace> exiting vim => linux usability certification.
682 [13:10:04] <ratrace> "Can you exit vim?" ":q or ZZ" "you're hired!"
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686 [13:13:49] <unborn> for me its about usability and efficiency hence whatever editor I can make my own with snippets and configuration.. vim nano emacs geany even editor in web...
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689 [13:16:13] <unborn> ,v tmux
690 [13:16:14] <judd> Package: tmux on amd64 -- jessie: 1.9-6; stretch: 2.3-4; stretch-backports: 2.8-3~bpo9+1; buster: 2.8-3; buster-backports: 3.1c-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 3.1c-1; sid: 3.1c-1; experimental: 3.2~rc4-1
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698 [13:25:25] <jhutchins> Yeah, a couple of past co-workeres I wish had been screeed for that/
699 [13:26:01] <EdePopede> ratrace: does C-z followed by killall vim count?
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709 [13:38:30] <jhutchins> EdePopede: nO.
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754 [14:55:30] <b0rsuk> Hi, since I installed bullseye on my nvme drive (LVM on LUKS) I keep getting seemingly random [Failed] messages at boot. A variety of them and they change from boot to boot.
755 [14:57:52] <b0rsuk> Here's the /var/log/boot.log replaced-url
756 [14:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1080
757 [14:58:46] <b0rsuk> Can you spot a pattern here? I suspect there might be a single underlying problem. I can't imagine so many unrelated things could go wrong on a single standard install.
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764 [15:04:53] <shtrb> b0rsuk, please file a bug
765 [15:04:55] <shtrb> also !next
766 [15:05:00] <shtrb> !debian-next
767 [15:05:00] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
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789 [15:34:18] <outoftime> Java app (minecraft) doesn't respond to changing keyboard layout, but changes are applied if whitched to some other window. Input manager - ibus.
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791 [15:34:41] <outoftime> *if switched
792 [15:36:28] <outoftime> Do yo have an idea what went wrong?
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794 [15:40:41] <jelly> outoftime, if you're using wayland, it seems keymaps are applied there on a per-window (per-app?) basis somehow
795 [15:41:05] <jelly> oh ibus, no idea then
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797 [15:42:06] <RoyK> ,v openvas
798 [15:42:07] <judd> Package: openvas on amd64 -- stretch: 6.0.9-2; buster: 9.0.3; sid: 20.8.0.2
799 [15:43:13] <jelly> ,depends openvas --release sid
800 [15:43:14] <judd> Package openvas in sid/amd64 -- depends: gvm.
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805 [15:53:51] <trysten> so i've got mutt configured with basic settings to connect to my IMAP server. But if I let it sit for a while it seems to disconnect, and I need to restart to reconnect. Any idea for reconnecting without restarting mutt? Or troubleshooting the connection?
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808 [15:54:17] <trysten> I'm not familiar with mutt, if you can't tell. Maybe I should just get a IMAP plugin for vim lol
809 [15:54:59] <ratrace> there's imap plugin for vim?
810 [15:55:29] <ratrace> holy skagsack there's imap plugin for vim!
811 [15:55:55] <trysten> Hehe I had no idea, just assumed. Vimscripters be scriptin
812 [15:56:08] <ratrace> I'm so gonna use this now! replaced-url
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814 [15:57:20] <trysten> ratrace: looks like it requires external tool
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817 [15:57:32] <ratrace> oh, archived. bummer. and it was supposed to supersede iris.vim .
818 [15:58:30] <velix> I want to restrict a trustable user to sftp via ssh's chroot. Nearly all tutorials on this force to change "Subsystem" to "internal-sftp" in "/etc/ssh/sshd_config". Is this fine for Debian?
819 [15:59:05] <ratrace> velix: yes. and don't forget specific homedir ownership (root:user) and permissions (750)
820 [15:59:11] <velix> Sure.
821 [15:59:20] <velix> ratrace: Why isn't it "internal-sftp" by default?
822 [15:59:55] <ratrace> dunno... legacy reasons?
823 [16:00:03] <velix> Okay. I thought security stuff.
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825 [16:00:12] <velix> Like the external is more secore than the internal
826 [16:00:20] <velix> "secore"? :D
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829 [16:00:36] <ratrace> Security Enhanced Core.
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835 [16:08:00] <jelly> velix, it's not internal-sftp by default because some people use ssh to run a sh
836 [16:08:40] <velix> jelly: So it might effect normal expected behaviour?
837 [16:08:47] <jelly> no more shell.
838 [16:08:58] <velix> LOL, okay... then I won't use that :D
839 [16:09:09] <velix> Can't we wipe all those websites off the web?
840 [16:09:23] <velix> They stupildy tell to do something without explaining the downsite.
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842 [16:09:33] <velix> Like "Put the knife into your heart"
843 [16:09:45] <velix> Just to check it's dull or not.
844 [16:09:48] <jelly> !tutorials
845 [16:09:48] <dpkg> A very common problem is that some people prefer to follow a step-by-step tutorial that shows them how to setup their system without reading the documentation or understanding what they are doing. If something goes wrong, they have no clue whatsoever about where to look for hints, and they sometimes decide to start from scratch using a different tutorial. This is not The Proper Way.
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847 [16:10:28] <velix> Okay, so no SFTP for my users ;)
848 [16:10:39] <velix> or I need to run sftp on another port
849 [16:10:49] <jelly> sftp is available by default.
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851 [16:10:57] <velix> I want them sftp only
852 [16:11:05] <jelly> then switch to sftp only.
853 [16:11:22] <velix> Yeah, but chroot and sftponly seems to firce internal-sftp
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855 [16:11:26] <velix> force*
856 [16:11:27] <jelly> so what?
857 [16:11:29] <velix> Sorry, not my keyboard.
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859 [16:11:40] <velix> When using internal-sftp I cannot sh via ssh anymore.
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861 [16:11:44] <jelly> you just said they didn't need a shell.
862 [16:11:48] <velix> I
863 [16:11:56] <velix> I need a shell on ssh ;)
864 [16:11:56] <jelly> <velix> I want them sftp only
865 [16:11:59] <velix> THEM
866 [16:12:07] <cws> velix: Create a group called sftponly and create a group match config in sshd_config that forces the chroot, etc.
867 [16:12:08] <velix> (them)(I)
868 [16:12:15] <cws> Any user in that group will be forced to sftp only.
869 [16:12:31] <velix> cws: via ForceCommand internal-sftp ?
870 [16:12:48] <jelly> velix, man sshd_config, read about Match
871 [16:13:02] <velix> jelly: I did. That's not the problem.
872 [16:13:08] <velix> I am using "Match Group sftponly" already.
873 [16:13:08] <cws> replaced-url
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875 [16:13:20] <shtrb> i
876 [16:13:22] <cws> That's exactly what I do.
877 [16:13:31] <velix> cws: Okay, my code also looks like this
878 [16:13:35] <jelly> Group Match is a good fit for a setup like these, it's how $work allows our partners to only upload documents, but not have shell
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880 [16:13:47] <velix> cws: So this doesn't need internal-sftp as general setting? nice.
881 [16:14:05] <velix> cws: Please publish that as "tutorial to rule them all" ;)
882 [16:14:19] <velix> "one tutorial to rule them all"
883 [16:14:56] <jelly> there are additional complexities if you also want to log file transfers
884 [16:15:23] <jelly> because a chrooted process can't access the syslog unix domain socket that's outside of chroot
885 [16:15:41] <velix> jelly: That's totally fine for me. The users are trustable. I just don't want them to mess in other directories :D
886 [16:15:52] <velix> Like "oops, I deleted that file, where is the paperbin?"
887 [16:16:02] <jelly> also more complexities if you want to give them write/upload rights
888 [16:16:54] <jelly> (the only way we made that work was to make their HOME owned by root, and a separate upload subdir writable by user)
889 [16:17:22] <jelly> (there's probably a better way?)
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892 [16:21:20] <cws> That's the correct way.
893 [16:21:28] <cws> A chrooted user must not have write access to the root of the chroot.
894 [16:21:42] <cws> If they do, it won't even allow login because of the security implications.
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896 [16:21:59] <velix> Interesting, Authentication failed... okay, debugging
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899 [16:23:16] <velix> Hmm /var/log/auth.log doesn't show the username. Highly interesting
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901 [16:26:03] <velix> Could anyone please have a look? replaced-url
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903 [16:26:44] <velix> uuuh ... ahhh
904 [16:26:48] <velix> yeah, I'm seeing it
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906 [16:27:31] <velix> okay, even after enabling passwords, it directly throws me out
907 [16:27:56] <cws> The authorized_keys line is required.
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909 [16:28:40] <cws> You will need to create a new directory, /etc/ssh/authorized_keys, and add a file to that directory named the same as the username of the user, which for some bizarre reason you've redacted, containing the ssh pubkey lines.
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911 [16:29:10] <cws> And, again, the chrooted user MUST NOT have write access to the chroot directory.
912 [16:29:18] <cws> Or you will not be able to log in, at all.
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914 [16:29:42] <cws> Write access to subdirectories is fine, but not the root.
915 [16:30:08] <velix> cws: oops sorry.
916 [16:30:09] <velix> why is AuthorizedKeysFile needed when PasswordAuthentication is set to use.
917 [16:30:16] <velix> is set to yes*
918 [16:30:38] <cws> Your paste says its set to no.
919 [16:30:51] <velix> Yeah, I've changed it already. Sorry.
920 [16:30:53] <cws> Ah.
921 [16:31:11] <cws> Okay, make sure that the chrooted user does not have write access (via user or group) to the chroot directory, restart sshd, and try again.
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928 [16:42:21] <maroloccio> Hi. My "systemctl --all --full" has a few units in load state "not-found" which are "inactive" "dead". How do they get in the list in the first place? What should I do?
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930 [16:46:12] <trysten> ratrace: it's still being devloped, but was merged into this larger project replaced-url
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936 [16:50:59] <remline> maroloccio: Good question, I have been wondering the same thing. Perhaps it is because the not-found units are referenced by other units. I don't think it is a problem (unless you need the not-found unit's corresponding functionality).
937 [16:53:00] <maroloccio> remline: for the most part, I don't need the functionality (I am neutral about them) but in some cases I dislike their presence (I wish they never got in the list in the first place)
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944 [17:05:35] <velix> cws: I'm just curious: My webhoster also has a chroot on the home-directory, but I can write to any, even in its root. But I cannot see the home-directories of user users. How does this work?
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948 [17:09:01] <metbsd> does testing have security update?
949 [17:09:06] <metbsd> is it bullseye?
950 [17:09:15] <EdePopede> velix: what is the access of /home and $HOME? i had a bnc on such a system long ago for some days, never seen this before. is /home maybe a-r?
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954 [17:13:07] <velix> EdePopede: I'm landing in /home/velix, but I cannot got up. But I can write to /home/velix directly.
955 [17:13:16] <velix> Perhaps some fuse mount magic?
956 [17:13:23] <velix> bindfs or such?
957 [17:13:40] <gordonfish> EdePopede, velix: /home is 755 on 3 Debian systems I've checked
958 [17:14:06] <velix> I don't know if my webhoster is usind Debian.
959 [17:14:33] <gordonfish> Seeing as this is #debian, I assumed that's what was being talked about
960 [17:14:46] <velix> Sure, I want to have this on Debian ;)
961 [17:15:09] <velix> I'm just curious, how to do that, when the ChrootDirectory can't have write permissions for the user.
962 [17:15:17] <gordonfish> I generally don't like to make a lot of assumptions, but I feel that was a fair one ;p
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964 [17:16:50] <EdePopede> velix: if you're not in a hurry i could ask the guy right now, only answer may take some time if he even remembers how he did it ;)
965 [17:17:10] <velix> EdePopede: Sure... no hurry.
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969 [17:21:56] <EdePopede> velix: no need to wait, tested it in /tmp. 2 subdirs owned by 2 users, the basedir a-r. i can cd into it, content not visible. also cd ./home/$USER
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971 [17:22:38] <EdePopede> can even go into the other user's HOME, the only thing is no directory listing for the home basedir.
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973 [17:23:05] <velix> EdePopede: And where do you chroot to? to /tmp or HOME?
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977 [17:23:33] <EdePopede> no chroot. just mkdir basedir and 2 user subdirs and then chmod the basedir. nothing more.
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979 [17:24:15] <velix> Yeah, but since i'm logging in via sftp, I need to set the chrootDirectory to a path.
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984 [17:26:31] <EdePopede> i was only behind these invisible user subdirs, somehow always managed to forget about testing it. i'd say that point at least isn't related at all to sftp or chroot.
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993 [17:31:48] <remline> maroloccio: I tend to agree. As an example, my avahi-daemon.service is "not-found". And my cups-browsed.service says "Wants=avahi-daemon.service". So I expect that cups is what tells systemd that avahi could ever exist.
994 [17:32:24] <maroloccio> remline: confusing. i wish i could manage this better..
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998 [17:38:24] <ratrace> trysten: oh, right, good find! awesome. undead!
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1029 [18:00:36] <jelly> FOSSGuy[m], no idea what happened there
1030 [18:01:12] <FOSSGuy[m]> Required invitation
1031 [18:01:23] <FOSSGuy[m]> Won't Debian open a matrix room
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1036 [18:07:19] <unborn> FOSSGuy[m]: why would did they?
1037 [18:07:20] <cosimone> hello, i'd like to set up a chroot environment to build and test some debian packages, what do you use for it? is there some kind of bootstrapping program used by the installer that i can reuse?
1038 [18:07:46] <sney> if you saw "invite only" while trying to join a debian irc channel, you were probably trying to join it on the wrong network (freenode, where you are currently, vs OFTC where most debian channels are). I think matrix bridges obscure this. if you're going to use irc regularly, the smart approach is to use an irc client, rather than some compatibility layer.
1039 [18:07:58] <sney> I could see debian branching out into matrix eventually, but don't hold your breath.
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1042 [18:09:03] <sney> cosimone: for building, there are tools like cowbuilder that automatically generate their own chroot environments for that exact purpose
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1044 [18:09:25] <sney> not sure if you can use a cowbuilder-generated chroot for testing though. maybe schroot would get involved somehow
1045 [18:09:50] <sney> as for bootstrapping program, that's debootstrap
1046 [18:10:14] <unborn> sney: calm down.. as on debian wiki IRC (in OFTC's #debian*) not freenode...
1047 [18:10:41] <unborn> - just try to correct your connection and then go woke up
1048 [18:11:21] <unborn> sney: replaced-url
1049 [18:11:30] <sney> unborn: what are you trying to say?
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1051 [18:11:57] <unborn> sney: you have been trying to connect to channel on wrong irc server.. eh?
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1055 [18:12:25] <unborn> oftc is not freenode
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1057 [18:12:53] <sney> unborn: not me. FOSSGuy[m] made some comment out of context about something requiring invitation. being on the wrong network is usually why that happens, and matrix makes it even harder to see what irc network you're using the join command on, aiui.
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1059 [18:13:01] <cosimone> sney: i see, looks like cowbuilder already does many of the things i want out of the box
1060 [18:13:02] <sney> unborn: I am well aware of the network differences
1061 [18:13:21] <cosimone> i'll give it a try, thanks again
1062 [18:13:25] <sney> cosimone: np
1063 [18:14:15] <unborn> sney: Im sorry I think I did read you correctly.. perhaps I am wrong.. "<sney> if you saw "invite only" while trying to join a debian irc channel, you were probably trying to join it on the wrong network (freenode, where you are currently"
1064 [18:14:40] <unborn> never mind.. i think I was correct.
1065 [18:15:45] <unborn> unless you mean this channel?
1066 [18:16:15] <sney> yes, this channel where we are right now is on freenode.
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1069 [18:17:55] <unborn> sney: well - sometimes we all do wrong things around - I've been banned from here many many times sometimes for year or so.. :) I am pain in butt but - lucky I am back. now I do chat only when I need really
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1072 [18:18:42] <unborn> sney: sometimes debhelper - have limits that's another thing.. you know what I mean
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1074 [18:20:09] * unborn also learned how to talk to other humans as well.
1075 [18:20:18] <sney> ok
1076 [18:22:22] <unborn> sney: sometimes it could be server resources or bot depended on resources and hog up or your network - who knows right - if that happens again make your self cup of tea and come back again - its just irc ;)
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1080 [18:23:30] <unborn> - you are here and now and that's what matters... how we can help you?
1081 [18:26:43] <unborn> - all of this woke up palava for nothing? man I should better to get into my docs to update them...
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1085 [18:39:21] <oxek> I don't see debian branching into matrix any time soon, since there are no decent matrix clients in debian repos...
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1088 [18:44:24] <ValeraRozuvan> You guys think replaced-url
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1092 [18:46:41] <avu> ValeraRozuvan: make a package, then file an ITP to get the ball rolling and see
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1155 [20:14:01] <Hash> Does it really need to be packged?
1156 [20:14:10] <Hash> That's the first question you need to ask yourself.
1157 [20:14:20] <Hash> Then, how much work are you willing to do to maintain the package over the years?
1158 [20:14:39] <Hash> Surely, you can't just package it and leave. It will grow old and state in nano seconds.
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1160 [20:14:48] <Hash> stale*
1161 [20:14:54] <Hash> So... just use git clone and call it a day.
1162 [20:16:05] <Hash> If you're going to package, start by reading the new maint guide, and find yourself a mentor.
1163 [20:16:16] <Hash> Not me. I'm not going to do it. I haven't the time.
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1193 [20:39:39] <ratrace> oooo backported nvidia upgrade
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1244 [22:13:33] <sney> there are more and more [m]s showing up and being active here and on OFTC, so it stands to reason that debian might eventually establish a native matrix presence, with the same bots and formal information etc.
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1246 [22:14:06] <sney> it doesn't look like matrix is a temporary fad, anyway. and getting client and/or server software into the archive would be a good start.
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1250 [22:19:31] * Mister00X shudders in synapse
1251 [22:19:58] <wintersky> lysurgic acid?
1252 [22:20:10] <jhutchins> sney: What does matrix offer that isn't just a duplication and dissapation of what we havef on IRC.
1253 [22:20:46] <jhutchins> It's bad enough that we're already on two different networks.
1254 [22:20:55] <sney> jhutchins: I honestly don't know, but it *does* have visible adoption among debian users and software developers, etc.
1255 [22:21:16] <sney> it appears to be the way things are going. for better or worse or negligible.
1256 [22:21:24] <greycat> From our point of view, what it offers is a small but growing number of complete novices on an unstable connection that frequently gets severed and causes part/join spam.
1257 [22:21:45] <sney> I suspect it has better mobile support.
1258 [22:21:53] <greycat> My global ignore on *[m] hasn't let me down yet.
1259 [22:22:44] <sney> greycat: I think that's the fault of the bridges they use for irc compatibility. it's like every one of them is connecting from a single bouncer. that's obviously not optimal, and I think it clobbers a lot of other irc stuff like the topic or the concept of distinct irc networks
1260 [22:23:12] <sney> if debian had a native matrix room or whatever, it'd get rid of all that nonsense cluttering IRC, too
1261 [22:24:45] * tarzeau_ prefers irc over matrix
1262 [22:25:04] <tarzeau_> although that gomuks client looks nice, it's not packaged for debian yet (not officially)
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1272 [22:31:18] <craigevil> gomuks is nice, you do not have to install it to use it
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1275 [22:32:52] <craigevil> there are other gui clients like nheko, spectral, revolt, matrix-mirage and a few others
1276 [22:33:39] <craigevil> but gomuks is cool , i have a tab in Guake for irssi, one for gomuks, a tab for terminal
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1309 [23:06:33] <EdePopede> craigevil: so just like, say, firefox? grab it from upstream, unpack somewhere, go? go, btw, never had it installed, do i need it or is it a binary build in the classical sense?
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1313 [23:10:11] <craigevil> EdePopede, I am on arm64 all I did was download then run /home/pi/Downloads/gomuks-linux-arm64 in a terminal
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1315 [23:10:36] <craigevil> nothing to unpack
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1318 [23:11:17] <EdePopede> craigevil: cool. thanks for the headup, i only looked at that somehow official thing so far which is an electron monstrosity.
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1329 [23:20:22] <HelloShitty> Evening. In systemd unit files, when we use `ExecStartPre=/bin/chgrp somethinghere /bin/someapp`, we are changing the group that will run the app 'someapp', right?
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1333 [23:24:48] <somiaj> HelloShitty: that seems like strange way to set a group systemd runs an app in
1334 [23:26:29] <somiaj> why wouldn't just using "Group=group" work? Though maybe here you can run it as a group a user actually isn't in.
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1336 [23:26:33] <HelloShitty> Maybe, but I'm using this "official" sample unit file, so who am I to question it:
1337 [23:26:34] <somiaj> well maybe with your method
1338 [23:26:48] <HelloShitty> replaced-url
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1340 [23:27:26] <HelloShitty> I'm still even trying to unbderstand if I really need that line
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1342 [23:27:42] <HelloShitty> because it seems that this file assumes I have installed bitcoin core in my system
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1344 [23:28:02] <greycat> HelloShitty: you found it on github? question it.
1345 [23:28:12] <greycat> I call it shithub for a reason.
1346 [23:28:14] <somiaj> oh I missread it, thought chgrp did something else, all that line is doing is make sure the directory /etc/bitconid is in the right group.
1347 [23:28:19] <HelloShitty> which is not the case, because I only did `./configure && make` . I didn't run the last one which is `sudo make install`
1348 [23:28:57] <HelloShitty> greycat: why you call it shithub?
1349 [23:29:13] <greycat> because the overwhelming majority of code on it is shit
1350 [23:29:14] <HelloShitty> It doesn't matter if it is shithub or craphub, what matters is the code there, no?
1351 [23:29:23] <HelloShitty> ah ok
1352 [23:29:33] <HelloShitty> Well, those are personal opinions, I guess
1353 [23:30:02] <greycat> and this particular project has "bitcoin" in its name, so I would imagine my opinions are likely to remain intact if I were to look at it
1354 [23:30:05] <HelloShitty> so, somiaj that line is not changing anything? Is only checking if it's in the correct group ?
1355 [23:30:25] <greycat> HelloShitty: it changes the group-ownership of the pathname
1356 [23:30:40] <greycat> the question is *why* did they think they needed to do this every time the program starts up
1357 [23:31:12] <HelloShitty> greycat: I respect your opinion, but it doesn't mean it is true for everybody. Maybe you don't like the code, but many others will like it and approve it, etc
1358 [23:31:41] <HelloShitty> Well, maybe to rpevent accidental changes for what ever reason it may change
1359 [23:31:48] <HelloShitty> I don't know
1360 [23:31:55] <somiaj> HelloShitty: man chgrp -- read what it does, "Change the group of each FILE to GROUP."
1361 [23:32:01] <HelloShitty> In my case, I might even be able to not use it at all
1362 [23:32:11] <greycat> Well, this is my response to <HelloShitty> ... Maybe, but I'm using this "official" sample unit file, so who am I to question it:
1363 [23:32:53] <HelloShitty> greycat: I cannot question other's people work when I know I can't do any better. At least, this is the way I think
1364 [23:33:14] <HelloShitty> Question in the sense of criticise (or whatever this is spelled)
1365 [23:33:18] <greycat> and thus the cycle of perpetual code badness moves forward
1366 [23:33:30] <HelloShitty> Do you know bitcoin source code?
1367 [23:33:45] <greycat> i am not going to look at it
1368 [23:33:52] <greycat> I am also not going to use it
1369 [23:33:53] <HelloShitty> If you don't, how can you say it's bad?
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1371 [23:34:19] <HelloShitty> ok, good, don't use it but don't judge it before you get to know it
1372 [23:34:23] <greycat> I am saying it's MOST LIKELY bad because you found it on github, and in fact you have already taken one piece of it and shown it here, and it is questionable at best.
1373 [23:34:50] <HelloShitty> maybe they have a reason to build the unit file like that
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1377 [23:35:12] <HelloShitty> bitcoin core is used in many platforms
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1379 [23:35:55] <HelloShitty> I have no idea if any of those platforms can change it out of the blue or if by any other reason, the safe way is to ensure the process is being start always by the correct group
1380 [23:35:59] <HelloShitty> better safe than sorry
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1383 [23:36:54] <HelloShitty> Anyway, in the case that I don't have the software installed in my system, then probably that line is not even needed
1384 [23:37:01] <somiaj> it seems to be a unefficent way to make sure some configuration directory has the correct ownwership. Once this is manually changed, it shouldn't need to be changed each time the app ir sun
1385 [23:37:19] <HelloShitty> I don't even know why the group needs to be bitcoin
1386 [23:37:36] <somiaj> also probably more proper to use an if...then statement, and only change the group if it isn't already correct
1387 [23:37:37] <HelloShitty> I'm running bitcoin core with my own user and I think there is no bitcoin group in my system
1388 [23:37:55] <somiaj> HelloShitty: because the app is run as the group bitcoin, and probably needs some access to that directory
1389 [23:38:02] <HelloShitty> agree somiaj and probably even greycat is right about this file in question
1390 [23:38:29] <HelloShitty> I asked about this and a few other lines in their channel and I got no answer
1391 [23:38:33] <greycat> somiaj: systemd doesn't contain a shell, so in order to add that logic you would have to spawn a shell ... not worth it.
1392 [23:38:35] <somiaj> it could also be that they are assuming that the directory may not be world readable but only group readable, which changes things.
1393 [23:38:42] <somiaj> greycat: ahh, good point.
1394 [23:38:49] <HelloShitty> I think that the file assumes bitcoin core is installed in the system, hence those paths and configs
1395 [23:39:02] <greycat> HelloShitty: ... well, duh!
1396 [23:39:12] <greycat> I mean, what in the hell are you even .... GAH
1397 [23:39:28] <somiaj> could be that some user didn't install the app correctly and the devs put this in the file just to avoid this issue vs just instruct people to set up permissions correctly to start with
1398 [23:39:35] <greycat> I think it's about time for me to get out of here before I start losing too many sanity points.
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1401 [23:39:55] <HelloShitty> as usual greycat
1402 [23:39:58] <HelloShitty> lol
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1404 [23:40:04] <HelloShitty> go get some air
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1406 [23:40:11] <HelloShitty> :\
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1409 [23:40:25] <HelloShitty> I don't know what is hhis problem with me or with what I say
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1412 [23:43:03] <HelloShitty> What did I say wrong, somiaj ?
1413 [23:43:15] <HelloShitty> To make him just go away...
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1417 [23:46:21] <somiaj> Just don't worry about it, his point was mostly that github isn't any better than random internet sources in terms of quality of code, this is indepdendent on if the code works
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1419 [23:47:09] <somiaj> due to modern computers, inefficent code can often work good enough, but here sounds like you need to adapt this to your needs, or better just learn how to write your own systemd unit file. If running something from a shell works, you just need to write a small systemd unit file that does that with the desired user/group
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1421 [23:47:43] <somiaj> all they are doing is giving some unprivlaged user/group (separate from the main user) the ability to run the app (wherever it maybe installed), but sounds like you need to adjust it to your use/needs
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1423 [23:50:56] <HelloShitty> yeah
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1425 [23:51:09] <HelloShitty> I'm just going to try it with the changes I made and see if it works
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1427 [23:51:37] <HelloShitty> if not, I'll get rid of all options and try to write one from scratch with only the things that makes it work from the shell and that's all
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1429 [23:52:27] <HelloShitty> And somiaj does systemctl has a --dry-run like option to see if the file works without actually reloading/restarting the service?
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1431 [23:52:48] <HelloShitty> it has
1432 [23:52:51] <HelloShitty> I just checked
1433 [23:52:52] <HelloShitty> :p
1434 [23:53:38] <HelloShitty> but the man page says it's only available to some of the actions that systemctl can perform
1435 [23:53:58] <HelloShitty> reload, start and restart are not one of them
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