42[00:46:45] *** Quits: wintersky (uid453465@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
43[00:47:40] <dooglet> !debian-next
44[00:47:40] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
45[00:48:05] <dooglet> It is invite only. How do I gain permission to join then?
46[00:48:15] <jmcnaught> dooglet: read the rest
47[00:48:50] <dooglet> Hmm I'm connect to oftc.. strange
64[01:00:00] <tinga> I'm setting up a storage server (small, for a home network), and would like to encrypt the storage on the *client* (e.g. via luks). I was planning to use NBD, but I find the nbd-server docs horrible, so am starting to lose faith.
65[01:00:09] <tinga> What would you recommend I do?
67[01:01:23] <tinga> I could live with a file based system where the individual files are encrypted in the client. Files can be pretty large, though (multi-GB).
75[01:10:45] <epsilon> is there any vnc client capable of shrinking size? I have a case a vnc server running on a 4K screen, and it's hard to access from clients using HD screen
114[01:47:26] <holycow> does anyone here know how to disable button 10 and 11 on a logitche rumblepad joystick controller?
115[01:47:37] <holycow> i have googled for hours, i have all the software installed
116[01:48:33] <holycow> and not a single person out there has an example of syntax of how to use any of the joystick alibration tools to just turn off / modify buttons
117[01:48:39] <holycow> hoping to run into someone here that knows
118[01:48:55] <holycow> man pages are utter garbage for the available tools
165[02:46:19] <oxek> I don't remember the graphical install, but if it was asking something like enabling security repository, then yes you should have that enabled
166[02:46:44] <oxek> if it was something about unattended-upgrades, then that depends on you
167[02:47:02] <oxek> the install guide probably covers this
168[02:47:04] <oxek> !install guide
169[02:47:04] <dpkg> The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at replaced-url
172[02:49:01] <kish`> I've been running into failures when trying to choose the desktop environments. Without the DE the install finishes but it gets a failure if I try to install something
173[02:49:21] <kish`> so I am trying to see how it will be installing the DE post basic install
174[02:49:26] <oxek> do you have internet available during installation?
190[03:02:56] <kish`> Processing was halted because there were too many errors; main-menu: dpkg-divert: warning: diverting file '/sbin/start-stop-daemon' from an Essential package with rename is dangerous, use --no-rename
215[03:27:37] <oxek> everything really. Ubuntu gained a lot of good will 13 years ago, when it behaved like windows and thus because the default distro for people who knew only windows.
216[03:27:42] <oxek> and it has been riding that wave ever since
218[03:28:50] *** Joins: Filo (~filohuhum@replaced-ip)
219[03:29:02] <haijuno> I think a concern I have switching from ubuntu to debian is will my current drivers work on debian. The install on ubuntu was seamless. Everything worked flawlessly from the beginning. No need to tinker or install anything. Would that be same on debian?
220[03:29:43] <dvs> probably not
221[03:29:53] <oxek> haijuno: might need to use the installation .iso that contains non-free firmware
222[03:30:05] <haijuno> Debian doesn't install proprietary drivers by default?
223[03:30:06] <oxek> and also use the backports kernel if you have new hardware
224[03:30:18] <oxek> so I guess the answer to your question is 'possibly not'
270[04:10:34] <somiaj> Mr_Queue: no need to add to the noise
271[04:11:04] <Mr_Queue> It isn't really noise.... I was at a coffee shop one time...
272[04:11:07] <dannylee> i really lov emacs...but vim is just so easy to compile an rum your favorite worm or virus... just open your program in vim :! or :make this will work on every thing...emacs is a bit harder...but i still use emacs for most edit jobs...
275[04:12:14] <Mr_Queue> This kid walked up to me and noticed my Debian and Linux stickers on my rig..... Kid asked me.... "What OS are you running?" Me: Debian
327[05:17:08] <alexrelis[m]> Is there a reason why Duplicati isn't in Debian's repos?
328[05:21:44] <sussudio> probably a license thing or something. getting it installed is literally a google search away, though.
329[05:21:59] <somiaj> could be just that no one has voluntineered to matain and package it for debian, it appears the Duplicati's matainers don't have the time to try to do it, replaced-url
331[05:22:45] <somiaj> sussudio: it is LGPL so unless there is something hiding it should meet the DSFG, here I think it is just no one has chosen to put in the work.
336[05:28:49] <somiaj> arg, DFSG, always swap letters in that
337[05:30:28] <alexrelis[m]> I'm still trying to find a backup solution that supports incremental backups, single file restores, the ability to view the backup directory without having to restore, encryption, and transferring the backup over SFTP. Duplicity/Deja-Dup come close but I can't choose where I want to restore the file too and I can't view the contents of the backup.
358[05:51:47] <alexrelis[m]> somiaj: I want to be able to recover files from a certain date like say I backed up a file on the 11th and deleted it on the 14th, I want to be able to restore the file from the backup I made on the 11th. And I'd prefer the backups to be encrypted. Deja-Dup is almost what I want, but it doesn't let me view the backed up directories without having to restore. Sometimes I just want to test a backup by opening a file from
359[05:51:47] <alexrelis[m]> the backup and seeing if it's in-tact.
550[09:28:23] *** Quits: jvwjgames (uid290762@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
551[09:28:57] <janolap1> Hi, I'm using ZorinOS, a Debian distro. When I clic on my second hdd (ntfs partition), it mounts in read-only mode. I think I should go in /etc/fstab, but i'm not sure about what to do. The fstab line is : "/dev/disk/by-uuid/E28820A588207A60 /mnt/E28820A588207A60 auto nosuid, nodev,nofail, x-gvfs-show 0 0" . Can you help me to make it writable ?
558[09:36:19] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
559[09:37:02] <EdePopede> debian is a distro on its own, one on which a lot of other distros are based, there's no "debian distros". just debian flavours, which is a different thing.
650[11:44:17] <coc0nut> just when i try to open steam
651[11:44:38] <nkuttler> then paste the commands without errors
652[11:44:59] <somiaj> coc0nut: use multiarch and insatll the i386 package, you shouldn't have to compile it for steam
653[11:45:12] <jelly> coc0nut, first, make sure multiarch i386 arch is enabled
654[11:45:52] <jelly> coc0nut, second, if you use a closed source opengl driver (nvidia), the 32bit library needs to match
655[11:46:08] <jelly> !multiarch
656[11:46:08] <dpkg> Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See replaced-url
657[11:46:24] <jelly> coc0nut, then just install libgl1-mesa-dri:i386
658[11:46:35] <somiaj> velix: It doesn't appear that 1.1.1 was part of streatch, where did you get the newer version from?
659[11:46:54] <jelly> (that's the right one if you're using normal, open source, Mesa-based OpenGL
660[11:47:24] <somiaj> velix: arg, *wasn't a part of stretch
661[11:47:27] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
662[11:47:28] <jelly> somiaj, deb.sury.org had newer libssl* for a bit
663[11:47:29] <velix> somiaj: I think it case from sury's PHP repository.
664[11:47:31] <coc0nut> jelly ; libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 is already the newest version (18.3.6-2+deb10u1)
665[11:47:31] <velix> yeah
666[11:47:35] <velix> jelly: yeah
667[11:47:40] <jelly> coc0nut, that means it's installed.
668[11:47:53] <coc0nut> and still i get the error when opening steam
669[11:47:57] <velix> somiaj: But after the bugfix, Debian Stretch was more up to date :D
670[11:48:23] <coc0nut> tho, im using nvidia driver for nvidia gpu
671[11:48:33] <coc0nut> reinstall the nvidia driver?
672[11:48:45] *** ledeni_ is now known as ledeni
673[11:48:51] <jelly> coc0nut, no, just install its 32bit bits
674[11:49:06] <jelly> judd, file libGL.so.1
675[11:49:12] <judd> Search for libGL.so.1 in buster/amd64: libgl1: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1; primus-libs: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/primus/libGL.so.1; libgl1-nvidia-legacy-340xx-glx: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/nvidia/legacy-340xx/libGL.so.1; libgl1-nvidia-legacy-390xx-glx: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/nvidia/legacy-390xx/libGL.so.1; libgl1-nvidia-glx: usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/nvidia/current/libGL.so.1
703[11:57:39] <jelly> nothing stops you from doing SSL termination on apache and then passing php fpm socket to the existing stretch setup, if you really can't upgrade the app
704[12:00:18] <GNU\colossus> at $prevjob, we rolled the TLS/HTTPS frontend on our own, with openssl statically linked into nginx, both built from source. if anyone cares, I can dig up a buildscript that makes this convenient on Debian.
741[12:30:35] <machine_1490> Hello. I was here a few days ago with some mce errors at boot. Other than seeing the errors the only real issue seemed to be much longer boot times +40seconds delay before reaching the grub menu. It was suggested that I test different kernels. This didn't help. I also opened the machine up but didn't find any issues. Now however, I am testing a
742[12:30:35] <machine_1490> Debian Live flash drive (10.9 XFCE non-free) and there is no delay before reaching the grub menu. This is perplexing, but perhaps the start of solution. Any thoughts here?
750[12:34:36] <ratrace> echoSMILE: hyper-v is the only solution to run hyper-v VMs
751[12:35:37] <GNU\colossus> machine_1490, what kind of device is your "normal" Debian setup installed on?
752[12:35:51] <ratrace> echoSMILE: KVM is linux native hypervisor with paravirt capabilities (virtio), and virtualbox is a cross platform hypervisor that works on windows and linux, and is no longer supported on Debian
753[12:35:53] <machine_1490> GNU\colossus A laptop.
754[12:36:15] <GNU\colossus> I meant like an SSD or HDD :)
758[12:37:09] <echoSMILE> ratrace: but I can run hyper-v under linux to run hyper-v VMs right?
759[12:38:08] <GNU\colossus> machine_1490, a suggestion that's kinda "out there", i think, but here goes: can you transfer that SSD into an external enclosure with USB connectivity, and try to boot the installation that way?
760[12:38:18] <ratrace> echoSMILE: no, hyper-v is windows kernel's hypervisor
761[12:39:03] <machine_1490> GNU\colossus I like the idea: this would be to see if there is a physical connection issue with the interal SSD?
762[12:39:06] <ratrace> echoSMILE: maybe you're confusing something here.... you CAN run Linux _GUEST_ VMs on hyper-v, yes
763[12:39:34] <machine_1490> Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment to do so...
764[12:39:56] <GNU\colossus> machine_1490, not necessarily physical, but yeah, that is the idea
765[12:40:12] <echoSMILE> ratrace: is the inverse. Linux as L0, Hyperv as L1, Win server as L2
766[12:40:23] <echoSMILE> this is not possible then?
767[12:41:08] <GNU\colossus> "Hyper-V" is a Windows-specific hypervisor product by MSFT
768[12:41:17] <machine_1490> GNU\colossus This would require a special device, right ? Also, when I opened up the laptop, I couldn't even find the SSD.
769[12:41:19] <GNU\colossus> you cannot run it on a Linux kernel
797[12:52:15] <machine_1490> Is there any way to test the internal SSD via the live USB? It seems to be that the only possible issue would be with the internal SSD, at least for the boot delay. The SMART test option is grayed out in the gnome-disks tool...
798[12:53:26] <GNU\colossus> SMART is probably not supported by your eMMC device. is your installation/data important, or is it OK for you to destroy it?
799[12:53:46] <machine_1490> The data is important!
817[13:05:02] <GNU\colossus> so it's not the kernel that is delayed, but the bootloader?
818[13:05:41] <machine_1490> Sorry, I'm don't know what a bootloader is...
819[13:05:45] <machine_1490> *I don't
820[13:05:59] <machine_1490> The delay happens before grub
821[13:06:01] <Enissay> GNU\colossus: I removed the corresponding kernels long ago, they were left behind I guess... Not sure how to clean them now without breaking anything
823[13:07:42] <GNU\colossus> Enissay, try running `sudo apt-get purge "linux-headers-4.19.*"` - kernel headers are only required if you compile software that needs them (or for some debugging/tracing utils, for added convenience)
824[13:08:07] <GNU\colossus> machine_1490, any chance you can try another OS or distro on that laptop, installed on the eMMC?
827[13:09:40] <machine_1490> GNU\colossus I can, as a last resort, as it took me a while to configure everything. The hang problem is new, though, with this install a few months ago there was no hang.
828[13:09:51] <machine_1490> That's why I thought it was maybe the kernel update.
845[13:31:27] *** Quits: igrtrrt (~igrtrrt@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
846[13:32:15] <machine_1490> The Mint forum had the solution!
847[13:32:29] <machine_1490> I disabled fastboot and now it boots faster !
848[13:33:00] <machine_1490> The MCE are still there, but the hang is gone . I test that again..
849[13:33:41] <machine_1490> Yep. Solved the hang issue. I don't get i, but it worked!
850[13:34:49] <jelly> dpkg, qotd308 is <reply><machine_1490> I disabled fastboot and now it boots faster !
851[13:34:50] <dpkg> jelly: okay
852[13:35:10] <machine_1490> The irony.
853[13:35:13] <machine_1490> haha
854[13:37:16] <GNU\colossus> nice
855[13:37:49] <jelly> one more and 300-309 can be added to !qotd0
856[13:39:57] <machine_1490> I just reenabled fastboot and the hang is still gone. I had moved the boot order around, but now I've put it back. I think that the BIOS was just feeling forgotten and wanted some settings changed and then put back. Anyway, thanks for your help!
857[13:41:31] <jelly> !win machine_1490
858[13:41:31] <dpkg> Congratulations, machine_1490! You have won the time-life collection of vintage AOL CDs, a set of 120!
918[14:39:34] <hansol> in debian we dont have command dh ?
919[14:41:06] <jelly> hansol, debhelper package, and if you're asking for that you're possibly building something from sources and might be missing OTHER stuff. What are you trying to do?
920[14:42:08] <ecraven> thanks a lot, that seems to work! any rough eta on when bullseye will be released?
923[14:42:51] <Franciman> jelly, I fixed my wifi issue
924[14:43:28] <Franciman> they added a few new fields in a struct, and in a union, changing the size of data structures that are to be handed to the firmware
925[14:43:31] <hansol> jelly i have a usb hdd connected to pc, how to check its connected ?
926[14:44:00] <Franciman> this, in order to accomodate a new wifi card which has 64bit bus
927[14:44:07] <jelly> hansol, lsblk, lsusb
928[14:44:31] <Franciman> now, if I remove those extra fields, which are useless for my card, I don't have crashes, anymore
929[14:44:37] <Franciman> but I think this is a bug in the firmware
930[14:44:46] <Franciman> do you think I need to post the patch to debian?
931[14:44:50] <Franciman> or to the driver mantainers?
932[14:44:52] <echoSMILE> I have a video card "Intel HD Graphics 5500". How can I check I am using the best drivers for a better performance?
933[14:45:06] *** Quits: Haxxa (~Haxxa@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
934[14:45:22] <jelly> Franciman, no idea, it might be a useful data point for either of those
935[14:45:36] <towo^work> echoSMILE, use a recent kernel and mesa
936[14:45:47] <jelly> echoSMILE, there's pretty much one set of drivers for intel gpus. Which debian release are you using?
937[14:45:59] <jelly> echoSMILE, which CPU model is that specifically?
938[14:46:08] <echoSMILE> 10.9
939[14:46:27] <echoSMILE> jelly: i7-5600
940[14:47:21] <jelly> echoSMILE, firmware for intel GPUs seems to be in firmware-misc-nonfree package, install it of it's not there
941[14:48:57] <echoSMILE> jelly: I need to add a parameter at /etc/apt/sources.list for it right?
942[14:48:57] <jelly> echoSMILE, also install and run "vainfo" to see if the bits for accelerated video decoding are there
943[14:49:09] <jelly> !non-free sources
944[14:49:10] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
945[14:49:32] <hansol> jelly it show me that disk is sdb and part is sdb1
946[14:50:06] <hansol> !mount
947[14:50:06] <dpkg> mount is probably a command used to mount a device to the local filesystem. `man 8 mount`. See also <reference>, <fstab>.
948[14:50:11] <jelly> hansol, okay. Do you have a question?
953[14:51:42] <jelly> hansol, yes, and your desktop environment and file browser might have an easy way to do that
954[14:52:03] <jelly> you're probably only going to mount the filesystem on /dev/sdb1
955[14:52:13] <echoSMILE> towo^work: when you say mesa you mean "mesa-utils" ?
956[14:52:22] <jelly> hansol, now, can you answer my question about dh?
957[14:52:38] <echoSMILE> jelly: after firmware-misc-nonfree I should reboot right?
958[14:53:13] <jelly> echoSMILE, yes
959[14:53:59] <Franciman> jelly, I would like to also stress that their propertary software has a bug and they are dumb AF
960[14:54:05] <Franciman> because they don't release that code to the public
961[14:54:19] <Franciman> so they are knowingly shipping wrong code just to save their property
962[14:54:25] <Franciman> they should be sued
963[14:54:26] <jelly> echoSMILE, while we're talking about mesa, are libgl1-mesa-dri, mesa-utils and x11-utils installed?
964[14:54:43] <echoSMILE> jelly: 1min
965[14:55:54] <echoSMILE> jelly: yep, all installed
966[14:55:55] <jelly> Franciman, I can't comment constructively on that. If you're a customer of a proprietary software or firmware vendor, I'd strongly try to look for support before engaging in legal actions.
987[15:00:15] <hansol> jelly is better to mout disk or partiton ?
988[15:00:21] <echoSMILE> jelly: glxinfo seems to be ok according to what is expected. xdriinfo just output "screen 0: i965" and glxgears seems to be slower (number of frames are lower) than before.
989[15:01:09] <RoyK> hansol: depends what you want, really. personally, I use lvm all over to allow migration and so on later without the hassle of partitions
991[15:01:20] <jelly> echoSMILE, I _think_ accelerated drivers default to vsync, so you're getting 60fps or whatever the monitor refresh rate is by default
992[15:02:03] <jelly> hansol, you can only mount the device which has the filesystem in it, that's almost always the partition
993[15:02:33] <RoyK> hansol: is this a separate drive or the one from which you're booting?
994[15:02:39] <jelly> I'm assuming there's a prexisting filesystem with data already on it
995[15:02:47] <jelly> RoyK, usb disk
996[15:03:07] <jelly> they asked to see if it was connected, so probably not the boot device
997[15:03:08] <RoyK> jelly: is there any data on it?
998[15:03:20] <hansol> i have mounted mhy USB drive
999[15:03:29] <hansol> with part
1000[15:03:41] <hansol> i want to try with a USB HDD now.
1004[15:04:42] <echoSMILE> jelly: Tks. Now let me check how to config kvm vm's to use GPU in the best way possible.
1005[15:04:59] <RoyK> most USB drives come with FAT32 or exFAT, which works, somehow, for data, but is rather far from optimal for linux, but is portable-ish between platforms
1007[15:05:20] <RoyK> that is - FAT32 usually works everywhere, exFAT is a bit more sketchy
1008[15:06:08] <RoyK> or perhaps that's changed now? don't remember - M$ apparently released it to OSS without the patents, but I haven't paid close attention to that part
1048[15:30:19] <echoSMILE> I am getting errors at tpm-tools instalation. I see at BIOS the security chip selected is "intel PTT" and not "discrete TPM". Are both able to be used at debian?
1138[17:01:02] <tinga> Is there any way to have files stored on a remove storage server but have them encrypted so that the server does not see their contents?
1140[17:02:13] <imMute> tinga: if the server exposes block devices, sure, mount one and put an encrypted FS on it. if it's something like NFS you can encrypt the file contents but probably not the paths
1141[17:03:06] <tinga> How would the server expose block devices? I just spent 5 hours of my life on NBD and think it's a steaming pile of manure, so I'm looking for something else.
1142[17:03:21] <greycat> iscsi, for one
1143[17:03:49] <tinga> Do you have positive experience with that one?
1168[17:21:00] <jelly> tinga, nbd is probably the easy, simple and wrong way; any remote block dev used, use it only if you can trust the network connection
1169[17:21:24] <tinga> I'm happy to tunnel through ssh.
1171[17:21:57] <jelly> ssh is already a layer of tcp, you'll want to avoid that, latency issues
1172[17:22:29] <jelly> consider looking at file-based encryption like encfs
1173[17:22:31] <tinga> The problem with nbd is that the only way of authentication it offers is via SSL keys. And then tons of issues and they changed how its configuration works and I just couldn't get it to run anymore, even when using old style config.
1175[17:22:50] <tinga> I've run into a dozen+ issues in either docs or implementation and now I've had enough.
1176[17:23:02] <jelly> I just run it unauthenticated, over a trusted p2p vpn
1177[17:23:30] <tinga> That's what I ended up trying but it warns me that oldstyle config isn't supported anymore and silently just doesn't work as it should.
1178[17:23:35] <jelly> it's a hack, so I don't recommend it unless you understand the pitfalls
1179[17:24:09] <jelly> which client and server OS/distro and release?
1180[17:24:17] <tinga> It looks like a horrible hack, and there are ~4 forks that tried to improve on it and all but one seem dead. So, I just give up. There's 2 Rust crates, if I had any hopes it would be with those.
1181[17:24:44] <tinga> Both Debian. stable on server, oldstable on client.
1182[17:24:47] <jelly> iscsi is the more enterprisey option
1185[17:25:49] <jelly> ok, those exist on both oldstable and stable
1186[17:25:53] <tinga> I noticed that one, checked Github and it's not been updated for 5 years or something IIRC so didn't try that one.
1187[17:26:15] <tinga> Also, doesn't offer clear text authentication either IIRC. Which is what I wanted (via ssh tunnel).
1188[17:27:04] <jelly> nbd is simple and dumb. Any auth bolted on can probably be easily worked around
1189[17:27:07] <tinga> Also the nbd code base has been worked on and off by about a dozen different people, and I just don't have trust into its security (buffer overflows etc.) given the chaos I've seen.
1190[17:27:35] <jelly> yeah, if you don't control both ends, don't use it
1191[17:27:44] <tinga> I like that it's simple but I don't like that the servers and clients are so bad even though they *are* simple.
1192[17:27:59] <jelly> I control both ends and the vpn between
1193[17:28:30] <jelly> and I still only use it every now and then.
1194[17:28:55] <tinga> ssh auth is the main auth but if I provide multiple users access to the same server with their own block devices they can still overwrite each other's block devices given that they all have access to localhost.
1195[17:29:09] *** Quits: catman370 (~catman@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you later..)
1196[17:29:11] <tinga> So it would need cleartext auth for the NBD protocol itself, too.
1197[17:29:55] <tinga> So the only way I *could* make it work would be with keys, but then I didn't even manage to get it to work with zero auth so I give up.
1198[17:30:11] <shtrb> was not following but why not iscsi ?
1199[17:30:17] <tinga> Yes, I may use iscsi.
1200[17:30:28] <tinga> Do you have experience with it?
1208[17:33:22] <shtrb> tinga, just don't expect that to be secure or anything. it shouldn't be trusted on a public network, and I would never attach that over the internet
1235[17:52:06] <tinga> From the web browser? Firefox or Chromium?
1236[17:52:19] <ramzy> firefox
1237[17:53:01] <avu> ramzy: first, try some other method of playing audio to make sure it's actually a generic problem and not something specific to Firefox or so
1267[18:04:56] <tinga> Maybe it's an audio effect? Maybe it's a bug. Maybe a misconfiguration. There are a few ways how to play audio on Linux: (a) bare ALSA, (b) pulseaudio, (c) jackd, (d) pipewire (from Debian 10 onwards)
1268[18:05:44] *** Quits: Filo (~filohuhum@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1269[18:05:59] <karlpinc> !alsa checklist
1270[18:06:00] <dpkg> 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
1271[18:06:02] *** Joins: Filo (~filohuhum@replaced-ip)
1272[18:07:47] <tinga> So one of the things to figure out is which system you're using. Check what you've got installed: dpkg -l "*"|egrep ^i|egrep 'jack|pulseaudio|pipewire'
1273[18:08:43] <ramzy> also not working in xfce
1274[18:08:59] <tinga> You mean, you hear double audio in xfce, too?
1275[18:09:08] <ramzy> yes
1276[18:09:33] <tinga> Have you tried mplayer?
1277[18:09:56] <ramzy> i dont know what is tht or how to try it
1278[18:09:59] <tinga> That's a command line program. It takes a video or audio file as argument.
1279[18:10:04] <tinga> apt install mplayer
1280[18:10:33] <greycat> next question will be "but I don't have any audio files"
1281[18:11:36] <tinga> ramzy, try the "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" from above
1282[18:11:40] <ramzy> after installing i do ''mplayer <my file path>
1283[18:11:45] <tinga> yep
1284[18:12:18] <tinga> You need to either hit the tab key for filename completion, or put quotes around the path, if it contains spaces or special characters.
1294[18:17:05] <kats99> I used debootstrap to install bullseye and I want to delete that but when I rm rf that folder it cannot remove the proc directory and says Operation not permitted
1323[18:27:55] <jelly> lowin, are you talking about this thing? replaced-url
1324[18:28:43] <ramzy> tinga: no output
1325[18:28:45] <lowin> jelly, Yes. but it says it was added in 5.4 in that page which is weird
1326[18:29:01] <lowin> I'm running the default 4.19 in buster
1327[18:29:45] <jelly> some features get backported to longterm kernel branches. How did you enable it in the first place?
1328[18:29:47] <lowin> from my understanding it should be alt-sysrq-x but when I press it I only get a "help" listing in dmesg
1329[18:30:09] <lowin> It's enabled by default in secureboot, I want to disable it to test something without rebooting
1330[18:30:12] <ramzy> tinga: u here?
1331[18:30:21] <tinga> ramzy, interesting. To double check, can you run: "killall pulseaudio" and then also "killall jackd"? Both should say "... no process found"
1333[18:30:42] <lowin> This is the error I get: "Lockdown: Direct MSR access is restricted; see replaced-url
1334[18:31:17] <jelly> > If the kernel is appropriately configured, lockdown may be lifted by typing the appropriate sequence on a directly attached physical keyboard. For x86 machines, this is SysRq+x.
1335[18:31:28] <jelly> _if_ the kernel is appropriately configured
1336[18:31:37] <ramzy> "bash:killall:command not found"
1337[18:31:53] <greycat> !buster su
1338[18:31:53] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See replaced-url
1339[18:32:05] <greycat> also consider using pkill instead of killall
1340[18:32:13] <jelly> but killall is in /usr/bin
1341[18:32:19] <tinga> ramzy, run: dpkg -s psmisc | grep Status
1342[18:32:28] <greycat> ,file bin/killall
1343[18:32:32] <tinga> ramzy, this should say "Status: install ok installed"
1344[18:32:34] <judd> Search for bin/killall in buster/amd64: psmisc: usr/bin/killall
1345[18:32:48] <lowin> jelly, So I guess debian's kernel isn't configured to do this?
1346[18:33:01] <jelly> lowin, that would be my guess as well
1347[18:33:06] <greycat> I don't even *have* psmisc installed apparently... but I do have pkill.
1348[18:33:19] <lowin> unfortunate
1349[18:33:20] <jelly> I thought it was standard
1350[18:33:21] <tinga> greycat, interesting, I wasn't aware that isn't standard
1392[18:46:45] <tinga> ramzy, Run this: sudo dpkg-divert --local --rename /usr/bin/pulseaudio
1393[18:46:58] <greycat> pulseaudio is designed to start itself automatically whenever you try to run any audio software
1394[18:47:17] <tinga> greycat, depends on whether the sofware is actively using pulseaudio lib though
1395[18:47:33] <tinga> aplay shouldn,t no?
1396[18:48:17] <tinga> ramzy, that should rename it out of the way; afterwards one more "killall pulseaudio" and we should be pulseaudi free
1397[18:50:20] <ramzy> okay but now aplay givesme an error
1398[18:50:32] <tinga> Use mplayer
1399[18:50:42] <tinga> I never really use aplay, so I don't know enough about it
1400[18:51:28] <tinga> mplayer should now be using plain ALSA, IIRC it won't give you an error (if it does, use the "-ao alsa" option we used above)
1401[18:51:41] <ramzy> still duped
1402[18:52:09] <tinga> OK, so now we know that the duping happens directly in ALSA. Interesting, not sure where that would come from.
1403[18:52:32] <ramzy> thats bad
1404[18:52:36] <tinga> And you're sure it's nothing outside of your computer? You hear the duping when using headphones plugged into the computer headphone jack, too?
1405[18:53:12] <ramzy> its a vm could it be somethitg in my host system
1406[18:54:08] <tinga> Yeah. Guess so.
1407[18:54:39] <ramzy> so should we return pulse audio to normal?
1437[19:03:47] <ratrace> ramzy: so you're logging into an i3-wm session? and xfce is there but unused, except for occasional programs from the DE suite?
1438[19:03:48] <greycat> ramzy: you can't "just run" both of them at the same time. You must have configured a custom .xsession file or *something*. We were asking what you did.
1439[19:04:11] <ratrace> audio is definitely got nothing to do with i3-wm. it has no audio management capabilities per se.
1440[19:04:28] <greycat> Because whatever you did to run both a DE and a WM (that isn't part of that DE) at the same time *could* be related to your audio issues.
1441[19:04:32] <ramzy> greycat: nothing..just logged out and logged back in to i3
1442[19:04:43] <greycat> so you are NOT in fact running xfce at all, then?
1443[19:04:46] <ratrace> ramzy: so you're using i3-wm, and not "atop of xfce"
1445[19:05:01] <ratrace> you MAY be running individual programms, installed with xfce suite, under the i3-wm
1446[19:05:02] <tinga> ramzy, you could take this to #alsa, but AFAIK alsa doesn't do audio processing like this, so it really looks like this is not an issue on the Linux side. I don't know how it happens to be on the host side but that's where I'd look now.
1447[19:05:39] <ratrace> did anyone mention to check alsamixer if there's some weird "hardware" based "monitoring" channel which would do a feedback loop?
1448[19:05:49] <ratrace> I remember some cards in the past used to have that
1449[19:05:59] <tinga> I did ask whether microphone input (monitoring) could be it.
1450[19:06:07] <tinga> Hmm. Maybe there's more, OK
1451[19:06:14] <ratrace> this would be different from microphone input
1452[19:06:19] <tinga> ramzy, run "alsamixer" and check with ratrace
1453[19:07:23] <ramzy> tinga: i just ran aplay with a non .wav file and my ears were murdered
1468[19:12:09] <EdePopede> ramzy: some time ago i had sounds for events on hexchat. ogg next to wav, had to choose wav because ogg sounded broken. though not with mplayer, but maybe for the same reason as your aplay experience.
1469[19:12:57] <ramzy> Edepopede its not m or a player its the whole system
1476[19:14:08] <EdePopede> yep, they fixed some things, straightened others, and added nice scripting support. and it works with libcaca even outside of X :D
1478[19:15:19] <tinga> ramzy, "alsamixer" is a command line tool. Play around with all settings and press function keys. Or if the gui allows you to find and toggle monitors, fine.
1480[19:16:04] <tinga> Or see whether ratrace can help you (I am not 100% sure about the monitors he's talking about)
1481[19:16:12] <tinga> s/he/they
1482[19:16:36] <ramzy> tinga: ill also play around with the vm settings bc my other machine alse had audio problems...anyway thanks for the help
1483[19:17:22] <ratrace> tinga: s/they/she
1484[19:18:54] <tinga> OK:)
1485[19:19:20] <ratrace> and this monitoring channel used to be some separate software multiplexed channel I used to see on some soundcards of the yesteryear
1543[20:20:59] <sney> inode33: aiui it should just work, but there may not be very many documentation resources for it, you will probably have to tinker/debug on your own.
1544[20:21:14] <sney> anecdotally, I suspect xorg will play nicer than wayland
1545[20:21:37] <inode33> Yeah I could run Xorg+ Wayland
1546[20:21:55] <sney> also it's probably best if you use all free drivers, since the nvidia blob has anomalous behavior in a lot of situations
1547[20:22:14] <inode33> I just thought nVidia+QXL would be slick
1548[20:22:55] <sney> if I were trying to set this up, I'd start by getting it working with just the free drivers, and then try to shoehorn nvidia-driver into an already working situation, so there are fewer unknown variables
1554[20:25:10] <dpkg> Binary-only firmware for the nouveau <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-misc-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features in the <nouveau> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>.
1573[20:36:31] <EdePopede> if i remember correctly
1574[20:36:38] <Peyam> ah
1575[20:37:42] <EdePopede> Peyam: maybe just look at the default config that should be somewhere in /etc or get some nice config and pimp it to work for you
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1582[20:39:07] <Peyam> EdePopede, execpi maybe
1583[20:39:09] <Peyam> let me try
1584[20:40:36] <EdePopede> btw, the manpage suggests writinga module if something is I/O intensive or sth. i had top output every 5s, a clock at 1s, no problems.
1601[20:46:30] <generic> jhutchins, running an old quadro
1602[20:47:05] <jhutchins> !debian next
1603[20:47:12] <jhutchins> !next
1604[20:47:12] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
1605[20:47:17] <jhutchins> Hmmm...
1606[20:47:41] <generic> dpkg, playing too much pacman lately
1607[20:47:41] <dpkg> generic: I don't know, could you explain it?
1608[20:47:45] <jhutchins> !debian-next
1609[20:47:45] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1610[20:47:53] <unixbsd> Hello, I would like to install debian using a slackware running machine. Is debootstrap possible on slack to get debian debootstrap'ped ?
1634[21:03:47] <johnfg> I've got a higher priority for python3.7, but wondered if I even needed the older.
1635[21:04:12] *** Quits: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
1636[21:04:34] <generic> jhutchins, so how about a modeline ?
1637[21:05:11] <unixbsd> johnfg: the bigger questions is why python is by default there, should be way smaller base, without python pseudo automatically everywhere.
1659[21:31:58] <karlpinc> johnfg: The buster release expects "python" to invoke 2.7. So if you've got any packages, or scripts, that depend on python (the "python" package, not the python3 package) then you can't just remove python 2.7. You very likely do have such packages.
1747[22:53:26] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
1748[22:58:10] *** Quits: lesless (~lessless@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1780[23:34:24] <baconicsynergy> So, the world of Free software is vast and ever-changing. I love Debian because of it's stability in this regard. But when a piece of software is so exemplary, so wonderfully written, how does the Debian project decide if and when this new software is integrated into Debian's core infrastructure?
1781[23:35:03] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1782[23:35:17] <baconicsynergy> Or if an existing component of Debian is replaced?
1783[23:35:44] <sney> it goes through the WNPP process like anything else, and if it's really that good, high popcon scores get it on the cd1/dvd1 isos and potentially included in major metapackages, etc
1787[23:38:37] <somiaj> It often starts by someone either already a debian dev or familiar with the software creating a debian package and going through the process to get it included in debian. I don't quite know what you mean by core, but included in debian is often enough, since most of debian software is 'optional' anyways
1788[23:40:33] <baconicsynergy> Thanks for the quick replies. I think I understand better now.
1789[23:41:07] <baconicsynergy> I hope one day I become good enough to get my hands dirty and contribute to this process!
1790[23:41:17] <baconicsynergy> For now, I have some studying to do
1791[23:41:49] *** Quits: craigevil (craig@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1792[23:41:58] <baconicsynergy> I'm focusing on C/C++ and Python right now, and I hope to eventually help the Debian packaging process
1796[23:43:36] <somiaj> also, provided the software uses standard make tools, packing the software isn't overly complicated, the biggest issue is learning debian policy and workflow