People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:35] <KNERD> okay, let me look that CLI up
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2 [00:00:37] <KNERD> thanks
3 [00:00:54] <KNERD> This one, I assume? replaced-url
4 [00:00:55] <ratrace> KNERD: replaced-url
5 [00:00:57] <ratrace> ya
6 [00:01:02] <dead> I have disabled apparmor to test a printing issue but I'm still seeing lines saying audit DENIED on printing...and it doesn't reference apparmor?
7 [00:01:10] <dead> so what else could be doing this? I don't seem to have selinux either
8 [00:01:21] <ratrace> dead: pastebin the actual line please
9 [00:02:21] <dead> replaced-url
10 [00:02:37] <dead> thsi is with apparmor.service not running
11 [00:02:56] <ratrace> dead: it's apparmor alright. why do you think it doesn't reference apparmor? appamor="DENIED"
12 [00:03:14] <dead> ok then how would i diable apparmor?
13 [00:03:17] <dead> disable*
14 [00:03:42] <ratrace> dead: you can set the profile in complain mode, aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.cupsd I believe, not sure check teh actual filename in apparmor.d
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16 [00:04:18] <ratrace> dead: then the next thing to do is file a bug report on cupsd apparmor profile. now .... cupds AA profile isn't installed by default, so consider if you really want it in this state, or are willing to fix it yourself for yourself
17 [00:04:25] <dead> hmm i dont even have the aa-complain command
18 [00:04:31] <dead> i have aa-exec/aa-enabled etc..
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20 [00:04:56] <ratrace> install apparmor-utils package
21 [00:05:04] <ratrace> dead: how is this even possible .... this is not default on debian.
22 [00:05:32] <dead> probably an old profile i setup on a previous version or something
23 [00:05:58] <ratrace> dead: oh wait..... cups-daemon itself installs the AA profile
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25 [00:06:18] <ratrace> right, right, packages do that themselves now, it's not just apparmor-profiles any more
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28 [00:08:02] <ratrace> dead: best thing would be to file a bug report against cups-daemon package, state that the default AA profile is missing read rights on /etc/magic
29 [00:08:07] <dead> well that seemed to have remove the audit lines now but still failing to print damn it lol :/
30 [00:08:20] <dead> ok thank you
31 [00:08:30] <ratrace> meanwhile you can set the profile in complain mode, or outright disable it with aa-disable /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.cupsd
32 [00:08:41] <ratrace> disabling might be better as that won't produce a megaton of log entries
33 [00:08:50] <dead> good to know, i'm used to selinux not this new apparmor shit..
34 [00:09:03] <ratrace> dead: same shit, different paradigm :)
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37 [00:09:23] <dead> cool well thanks for the help, have a good one!
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39 [00:09:29] <ratrace> !next
40 [00:09:30] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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47 [00:17:08] <EdePopede> is it possible to check root's history file while not logged in? i was thinking of a 2nd PID 0 account. but hm, maybe i just could set another HISTFILE in the start script so the original one doesn't get touched.
48 [00:18:00] <EdePopede> s/PID/UID/
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50 [00:20:20] <phogg> EdePopede: shell history? just read ~root/.bash_history (if you have permission)
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52 [00:21:03] <EdePopede> phogg: that's the point. i have to be logged in as root, but i want to check how it looks after i've been logged out.
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54 [00:22:16] <phogg> EdePopede: how it would look? like, before you log out?
55 [00:22:21] <EdePopede> right now on the freshly started live system it is still empty, the running shell holds the commands i used to prepare my environment. and i'm not sure if it would be a good idea to write it now or better wait until logoff.
56 [00:22:36] <EdePopede> no, after.
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59 [00:23:13] <EdePopede> i check everything, file and process copy look both fine, when i login again it is messed. doubled entries, which should not be there.
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62 [00:23:40] <EdePopede> and i just have to know when this happens.
63 [00:23:43] <phogg> EdePopede: so, like I said, just read that file
64 [00:23:57] <EdePopede> readable only by root
65 [00:24:09] <oxek> EdePopede: `sudo cat /root/.bash_history`
66 [00:24:10] <phogg> you can change that if you want, especially if it's temporary
67 [00:24:16] <EdePopede> works for every other account with root, but not with root :)
68 [00:24:20] <phogg> you can also log in with a different shell that doesn't read or write it
69 [00:24:21] <EdePopede> err *for* root
70 [00:24:39] <phogg> oxek: ~root is technically more correct
71 [00:24:50] <EdePopede> hm i could use zsh or whatever i have here, good idea
72 [00:24:57] <oxek> phogg: true, but does every shell work that way?
73 [00:25:06] <phogg> oxek: POSIX standard
74 [00:25:15] <oxek> so probably fish doesn't :)
75 [00:25:23] <phogg> who uses fish?
76 [00:25:33] <oxek> japanese?
77 [00:25:41] <cws> fish is a fairly popular shell.
78 [00:26:54] <oxek> anyone know the popularity rating of interactive shells? Maybe bash 1st, zsh 2nd, fish 3rd?
79 [00:27:11] <phogg> Best is sobjective.
80 [00:27:23] <phogg> popularity isn't a great measure of it
81 [00:27:39] <oxek> that's why I didn't mention the word 'best'
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83 [00:27:52] <cws> oxek: those three, in some sort of order.
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85 [00:28:16] <oxek> cws: that's what I would have guessed, but I don't know much about it
86 [00:28:19] <phogg> oxek: Oh, okay. Bash is definitely first, though. I think zsh may be second, after that it's hard to know.
87 [00:28:33] <phogg> ksh will be in there somewhere, fish might even approach 1%
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90 [00:28:50] <phogg> But I'm betting more people still use tcsh
91 [00:29:18] <phogg> oxek: you could try the Debian popcon for the relevant packages
92 [00:29:24] <oxek> I was just gonna say popcon
93 [00:29:24] <phogg> it's not a good metric, but it is *a* metric
94 [00:29:49] <phogg> unlike the next best alternative, which is gut instinct, it has to be worth something
95 [00:30:00] <phogg> Does Ubuntu run a popcon?
96 [00:30:01] <cws> phogg: popcon won't be a good metric, bash is preinstalled.
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98 [00:30:28] <phogg> cws: even so I think that's going to still give it a fair assessment of popularity
99 [00:30:42] <EdePopede> "my precious 100k+ line history" ... 100k lines of bash history? i reset it often when it reaches some hundred lines :o
100 [00:30:48] <cws> That literally means that it can't give a fair assessment of popularity.
101 [00:30:55] <oxek> cws: I think it's safe to assume bash is most popular because it's default. popcon says tcsh is more popular than fish
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103 [00:31:19] <coc0nut> fish is a fairly popular shell <- hillarious line! :)
104 [00:31:21] <phogg> EdePopede: I keep 10k lines just so that I never have to worry about anything I can remember having aged out. Entries at the top are years old!
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106 [00:31:32] <phogg> oxek: I definitely believe that
107 [00:31:34] <cws> coc0nut: It's a factual statement.
108 [00:31:57] <phogg> fish has gained some recent notoriety, but being hip is not the same as being popular
109 [00:32:52] <cws> Alright, this is getting tired. I'm not here to microscopically subdivide hairs. fish is a moderately popular shell and is one of the top three in terms of "popularity" along with zsh and bash.
110 [00:32:57] <EdePopede> phogg: how do you even use it? i hate this single line interface while scrolling through it, even in mc i often open the history box if the command i want doesn't appear during the first few iterations.
111 [00:33:04] <cws> End. I'm moving on.
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113 [00:34:11] <coc0nut> does fish include bash and zsh and so on?
114 [00:34:45] <oxek> coc0nut: that question does not make sense to me
115 [00:34:49] <phogg> EdePopede: C-r and type
116 [00:35:08] <oxek> with FZF for fulltext search in history
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118 [00:35:36] <EdePopede> phogg, that's what i do. but with a few hundred lines it's no fun anymore. and C-s to return when i was too fast again also doesn't work.
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120 [00:36:07] <oxek> EdePopede: really check out FZF, it makes C-r so much better
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122 [00:36:43] <phogg> EdePopede: that's because C-s is bound to something at the terminal level
123 [00:37:04] <oxek> C-s C-q are flow control in readline
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125 [00:37:26] <phogg> EdePopede: stty -ixon; then C-s will do what you want. Or rebind forward search
126 [00:37:32] <EdePopede> i know, but this doesn't make it work ;)
127 [00:37:43] <EdePopede> ah i should do it
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130 [00:39:09] <oxek> or use zsh, which doesn't use readline and you can disable flow control (C-s C-q) in the zshrc file
131 [00:39:25] <phogg> EdePopede: for things very old I mostly just history | grep -E ...
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134 [00:42:09] <alex11> what a fishy conversation
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138 [00:44:09] <ratrace> alex11: badum-tss!
139 [00:44:34] <unborn> ,v flameshot
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141 [00:44:35] <judd> Package: flameshot on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 0.6.0-11~bpo9+1; buster: 0.6.0-11; buster-backports: 0.8.5-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 0.9.0+ds1-1; sid: 0.9.0+ds1-1
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143 [00:48:18] <oxek> +1 for flameshot
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167 [01:10:52] <alex11> are there quick and easy ways to check whether my /home permissions are mostly correct
168 [01:11:40] <alex11> i had a snafu a while ago but i think i managed to set my directories to 755 and files to 644 (or is it the other way around, i forget what it's supposed to be) and i just wonder if i can check for exceptions
169 [01:11:59] <alex11> yeah dirs 755 files 644 pretty sure
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173 [01:16:52] <alex11> i guess i can do a big ol' recursive search and just skim
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177 [01:18:59] <alex11> ignore me
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229 [02:08:37] <maxrazer> Anyone know why the Mullvad VPN .deb package would install fine but running it is just a command line tool and no GUI seems to be found or run?
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232 [02:11:20] <abrotman> does it maybe also have a GUI binary, or package?
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239 [02:14:48] <somiaj> maxrazer: this appears to be a third party .deb? If so you might want to ask the creaters of the .deb. Besides abrotman suggestion of seeing if they have a seperate gui package, dpkg -S packagename (if it is installed) will list all the files it installed, maybe they put useful info in /usr/share/doc/packagename
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242 [02:17:58] <maxrazer> I may have to contact their support. I've run the application many times in the past without this behavior. I'm now only using i3wm so, I'm not sure if that has something to do with it.
243 [02:18:07] <maxrazer> I don't see any process with htop though.
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255 [02:26:46] <abrotman> maxrazer: did you `dpkg -L <pkgname>` to look for binaries?
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258 [02:28:23] <maxrazer> Yes, and I see /usr/bin/mullvad and a few others
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267 [02:35:28] <somiaj> oh wait, yea -L and not -S...my dpkg foo is rusty.
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381 [05:01:22] <alexrelis[m]> What would be the best way to install System76's power management, firmware tool, and driver on Debian without using the PPA and ending up with a Frankendebian?
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385 [05:05:15] <somiaj> The biggest issue is depends, so although we usually just say "don't use a PPA", this is because in general they will need dependencies that are not in debian
386 [05:05:56] <somiaj> If you are willing to do the research, provided debian can meet all the depends, you might be able to install the .deb just fine (though it may not be tested so could have unforseen issues, but as a single .deb you can install/remove often no big deal)
387 [05:06:21] <somiaj> replaced-url
388 [05:06:33] <somiaj> I have ono clude what Systems76's depends are going to be
389 [05:07:21] <somiaj> though even that link has drawbacks, this is assuming the package can be built using debian libs, which isn't always the case for some more complicated apps
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447 [06:32:33] <alexrelis[m]> What's a good backup utility that allows me to make an encrypted image of my entire computer (not just home directory) to transfer to my server via SFTP?
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455 [06:35:55] <maxrazer> Maybe rsync with cron for adding encryption. I haven't done it, but a quick search found that.
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517 [07:52:53] <TheBigK02> jhutchins: the "old" is Linux server1 4.19.0-14-amd64 and the new is Linux server1 4.19.0-16-amd64
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598 [09:34:27] <lemur> grub-theme-breeze fails to install (upgrade) on a zfs-on-root system: replaced-url
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605 [09:46:21] <jmd> I'm using the gcc-mingw-w64-x86-64 cross compiler from buster to create Windows binaries. 64 bit binaries are fine. However I expected to be able to pass -m32 to build 32 bit binaries. The compiler runs fine, but fails to link. It seems that it cannot find the proper crt libraries for 32 bits. Is there something else I have to do?
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613 [09:51:41] <themill> do you need gcc-mingw-w64-i686?
614 [09:54:11] <ratrace> lemur: that's /boot on ZFS too?
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616 [09:57:04] <lemur> ratrace: /dev/nvme0n1p3 on /boot/grub type vfat , so no.
617 [09:57:59] <jmd> themill: Do I ?
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619 [09:58:39] <themill> jmd: you know more about cross-compiling for windows than me; based on the package description, I'd say yes.
620 [09:58:52] <lemur> Seems to be related to this one: replaced-url
621 [09:59:20] <jmd> ok. I will try it.
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623 [10:00:26] <jmd> (However the description for gcc-mingw-w64-x86-64 clearly says "environment for 32- and 64-bit".
624 [10:00:34] <jmd> )
625 [10:00:38] <themill> yeah, I saw that too
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627 [10:01:09] <ratrace> lemur: I thikn that vfat is an issue. why do you have /boot on fat?
628 [10:01:37] <themill> lemur: is this Debian? I don't think grub-theme-breeze in Debian has any files in /boot
629 [10:02:30] <lemur> themill: it's kde-neon, which as far as I understand sources all kde-related files directly from debian experimental (?)
630 [10:02:38] <themill> nope
631 [10:03:51] <ratrace> !based on debian
632 [10:03:51] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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635 [10:05:27] <lemur> ratrace: The config is based on the root on zfs manual on openzfs
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637 [10:05:37] <lemur> themill: ok, thanks. understood.
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641 [10:07:04] <ratrace> lemur: I don't know about that, but I don't think /boot can be on vfat. /boot is not ESP
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647 [10:09:12] <ratrace> lemur: btw, there's #zfsonlinux here on freenode too
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654 [10:12:06] <lemur> ratrace: thanks!
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680 [10:42:08] <avernos> I have a problem with the ppp interface, I get constant timeouts and the driver hangsup automatically without running the disconnect scripts. I need to run the disconnect scripts, or disable the timeouts/ automatic hangup or else i cannot recover it aftewards, can someone help?
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704 [11:10:05] <shtrb> avernos, is that Sonicwall by any chance ? I had oddities with it's ppp interface and reducing the MTU to 500 solved missterious corruptions (was failing to do ssh)
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708 [11:13:16] <avernos> shtrb, not sonicwall, but did some search and found several people with similar issues but not much details about this. My oddities happen mostly with the loss of coverage.. After that got oddities even from the provider..
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713 [11:17:38] <shtrb> avernos, maybe you could also change the timewait period to shorter (on the server side) , this way your login would not be in bad state for long period of time
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717 [11:20:27] <avernos> the timewait how is different to maxfail ?
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721 [11:22:20] <shtrb> On radius level , you have for how long a connection is considered to be active since last message arrived, default in many servers is 300 seconds (5 minutes) you can reduce this for the system to remove your login from the connected state
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724 [11:24:24] <shtrb> Will bugfixes (documentation) may still find their way into Bullseye ?
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726 [11:24:31] <avernos> tried to change that with several options, none worked, never used timewait.. might just be a big help
727 [11:24:41] <avernos> ty
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743 [11:40:18] <avernos> shtrb, timewait is a chatscripts or ppp.conf ?
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817 [12:49:37] <b1ack0p> hi
818 [12:49:56] <b1ack0p> someone else having issue with speedtest-cli?
819 [12:50:11] <b1ack0p> it was working fine but recently it is giving error
820 [12:50:25] <b1ack0p> replaced-url
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843 [13:10:01] <jelly> ,v speedtest-cli
844 [13:10:02] <judd> Package: speedtest-cli on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.1-1; stretch: 1.0.0-1; buster: 2.0.2-1+deb10u1; bullseye: 2.1.2-2; sid: 2.1.2-2
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846 [13:10:31] <jelly> b1ack0p, you might want to try backporting 2.1.2 if 2.0.2 is misbehaving
847 [13:12:19] <jelly> or not, the newer version breaks for me on buster
848 [13:12:44] <jelly> replaced-url
849 [13:12:55] <jelly> so it's not just you
850 [13:14:05] <ratrace> jelly: powerline?
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855 [13:15:19] <jelly> ?
856 [13:15:25] <jelly> what is powerline
857 [13:15:29] <ratrace> ,i powerline
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859 [13:15:42] <ratrace> bah... the "prompt and statusline utility" for ze shell
860 [13:15:43] <judd> Package powerline (python, optional) in buster/amd64: prompt and statusline utility. Version: 2.7-2; Size: 50.4k; Installed: 276k; Homepage: replaced-url
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862 [13:15:59] <jelly> no, speedtest-cli
863 [13:16:03] *** Joins: odnes (~odnes@replaced-ip )
864 [13:16:11] <jelly> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(443), sin_addr=inet_addr("199.232.18.219")}, 16) = -1 EINPROGRESS (Operation now in progress)
865 [13:16:11] <jelly> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/usr/lib/ssl/certs/5ad8a5d6.0", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
866 [13:16:14] <ratrace> are you using that? I'm referring to the specific prompt in your paste
867 [13:16:23] <jelly> nope, it's just a prompt
868 [13:16:28] <ratrace> mkay
869 [13:17:04] <jelly> PS1="[%T] %B%~%b %(#.#.=>) "
870 [13:17:22] <ratrace> neat
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872 [13:17:33] <jelly> and a RPS1 that makes things ugly when copy/pasting
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877 [13:21:36] <jelly> b1ack0p, dunno what goes wrong there, app seems to get replaced-url
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928 [14:23:56] <b1ack0p> jelly: sorry i disconnected
929 [14:24:14] <b1ack0p> so is speedtest-cli will discontune or what?
930 [14:24:23] <b1ack0p> s/is/will
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932 [14:28:02] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: why you say that? is it stopped in github?
933 [14:28:53] <b1ack0p> i was responding jelly..
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935 [14:29:16] <b1ack0p> cybercrypto: i dont know but recently when i run speedtest on command line it gives error
936 [14:29:25] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: sure.
937 [14:30:35] <b1ack0p> can somebody test
938 [14:30:40] <b1ack0p> speedtest?
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941 [14:31:13] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: I dont know... but i guess the speedtest company (oakla i guess?) changed their side and potentially impacted in the 'speedtest-cli' which is not affilliatted to oakla.
942 [14:31:43] <b1ack0p> so is there any alternative to test speed of my connection via commandline?
943 [14:31:45] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: if thats true... speedtest-cli will need to be updated/adjusted or die :-)
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945 [14:32:27] <b1ack0p> hmm
946 [14:32:37] <b1ack0p> so what can i use instead of speedtest-cli?
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949 [14:33:19] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: i'm using this now:
950 [14:33:28] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: the same company offers a commandline of their software. look into their website. if you only use free-sw, then you may want to measure your network with other tools for a while.
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952 [14:33:42] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: time ping -c1 1.1.1.1 | sed 1d |head -1 |sed 's,.*ttl=,ttl=,'
953 [14:33:50] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: with linkspeed=$((ifconfig |grep -v "^ " |grep -v ^$ |grep -v "^lo"|sed s,:.*,, |while read a; do echo -n "$a "; ethtool $a|grep -i speed; done |sed "s,.peed:,,") 2>/dev/null | awk '{print $2}')
954 [14:34:13] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: but it's obviously not measuring the speed, but showing link speed
955 [14:34:14] <b1ack0p> tarzeau_: that s a lot of commands :/
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957 [14:34:27] <tarzeau_> easier on macos ;)
958 [14:34:40] <b1ack0p> are you on macos?
959 [14:34:52] <tarzeau_> used to use speedtest='echo "`curl -sS -m3 -o/dev/null replaced-url
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961 [14:35:07] <tarzeau_> my mba is my terminal, but i use a lot of debian and other linux
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964 [14:35:31] <tarzeau_> and yes for dtp i prefer macos
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966 [14:35:52] <tarzeau_> i'm aware of gimp, inkscape, and scribus
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970 [14:36:34] <b1ack0p> isnt there any easier command to test speed?
971 [14:37:25] <EdePopede> you could download a huge file and check how long it takes
972 [14:37:26] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: i'd be happy to take one if someone comes up with one
973 [14:37:34] <tarzeau_> EdePopede: that's my latest alias ^ doing
974 [14:37:41] <EdePopede> *nod* ;)
975 [14:37:43] <sigint> tarzeau_, a big difference between your curl command and the speedtest-cli is that the later uses multiple connections in parallel
976 [14:37:52] <b1ack0p> EdePopede: lol very practical suggestion :p
977 [14:38:01] <EdePopede> wget has some nice stats during download
978 [14:38:07] <tarzeau_> sigint: true, but how is multiple connections in parallel helping? for bonded 20/40gbit links?
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980 [14:38:19] <tarzeau_> sigint: or 2.5/5gbit links?
981 [14:39:08] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: speedtest-cli is opensource and is dependent of the 'speedtest' official client from oakla-company. It is not guaranteed that 'speedtest-cli' will always work, since it is depending on oakla-company APIs.
982 [14:39:20] <sigint> tarzeau_, my router is quite weak (AMD 1 GHz) but multicore. So even a 1 Gbps connection is able to saturate a core, but multiple connections allow to spread the load on multiple cores
983 [14:39:22] <EdePopede> b1ack0p, if you're not afraid to burh your fingers xD replaced-url
984 [14:39:27] <b1ack0p> i got it but i am looking for alternative
985 [14:39:41] <b1ack0p> is there any tool to monitor and test the connection for linux/debian?
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988 [14:41:01] <hlias> a torrent with many seeds? :P
989 [14:41:14] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: you can try other tools. if you google you will find a lot (try to start with iperf or any other... i guesss it is under bsd license)
990 [14:41:29] <tarzeau_> sigint: i see
991 [14:42:20] <b1ack0p> ..
992 [14:42:39] <EdePopede> found netperf - also ioperf looks good here: replaced-url
993 [14:43:10] <b1ack0p> ioperf or iperf?
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995 [14:43:44] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: iperf
996 [14:44:04] <b1ack0p> does it work similar to speedtest-cli?
997 [14:44:27] <tarzeau_> what a pity netperf doesn't support being run with timeout 3
998 [14:44:51] <tarzeau_> oh you can't just run it
999 [14:45:38] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: it is better than... but does not works like 'speedtest-cli' - IF you want similar to that, go to the company oakla website and download their cli tool.
1000 [14:46:20] <cybercrypto> EdePopede: I like iperf, which works greatly with sctp.
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1002 [14:46:53] <b1ack0p> how can i use iperf?
1003 [14:46:55] <EdePopede> nntp seems to be the root of some of them
1004 [14:47:01] <b1ack0p> i checked --help but i dont get it
1005 [14:47:01] <EdePopede> err
1006 [14:47:36] <EdePopede> ttcp
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1009 [14:49:23] <b1ack0p> nvm
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1011 [14:49:32] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: try ntop and check if it fine for you. otherwise, you can check other tools and read about them.
1012 [14:49:56] <ratrace> b1ack0p: start it in server mode on one machine, and in client mode (for server's IP and port) on the other
1013 [14:50:15] <b1ack0p> ratrace: it is difficult for me..
1014 [14:50:20] <ratrace> which part?
1015 [14:50:27] <b1ack0p> server side ip port etc
1016 [14:50:36] <b1ack0p> i was looking for a basic tool
1017 [14:51:20] <ratrace> b1ack0p: what's difficult about it? pick a number. say, 12345. iperf3 -s -p 12345 on the server
1018 [14:51:35] <b1ack0p> random number?
1019 [14:51:44] <EdePopede> just stay above 1024 if you're not root
1020 [14:51:50] <ratrace> iperf3 -c <servers_ip> -p 12345 on the client
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1022 [14:52:07] <b1ack0p> how can i know the ip
1023 [14:52:14] <b1ack0p> connection ip?
1024 [14:52:15] <ratrace> b1ack0p: whatever port you want, above 1024 and below 65535. actually check that you don't try to use a port already in use
1025 [14:52:32] <ratrace> b1ack0p: seriously?! why are you even running a server with zero knowledge?!
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1027 [14:52:51] <b1ack0p> who said i am running a server??
1028 [14:53:03] <ratrace> why are you trying iperf then? it's a server-client tool
1029 [14:53:03] <b1ack0p> i am talking about internet speed which ISP provided
1030 [14:53:09] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: nethogs / iptraf / iftop / ntop (long list of tools)
1031 [14:53:10] <b1ack0p> dont know
1032 [14:53:11] <ratrace> you need to run iperf on BOTH ends
1033 [14:53:28] <b1ack0p> i asked about speedtest not server test
1034 [14:53:41] <ratrace> b1ack0p: I read up as far as "how can I use iperf".
1035 [14:53:56] <b1ack0p> sorry i thought it is a tool to test internet connection
1036 [14:54:02] <ratrace> b1ack0p: open browser, go to ookla's speed test, run it
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1038 [14:54:31] <b1ack0p> i asked on commandline tool
1039 [14:54:33] <ratrace> it would automatically pick your ISP, but if not, find a closest host. however ... keep in mind what you're actually measuring here
1040 [14:54:38] <b1ack0p> nevermind thanks anyway
1041 [14:54:54] <ratrace> b1ack0p: oh I see you were asking about speedest-cli before
1042 [14:54:59] <ratrace> aaaand it's broken?
1043 [14:55:00] <b1ack0p> yes ratrace !
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1045 [14:55:09] <b1ack0p> yes it is broken
1046 [14:55:27] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: I already said: go to the oakla-website and download their tool-cli. OR download a new tool, as I listed above.
1047 [14:55:59] <b1ack0p> cybercrypto: i am on an old laptop, it takes 10mins to open a browser
1048 [14:56:08] <b1ack0p> that s why i asked for a commandline tool
1049 [14:56:12] <ratrace> b1ack0p: you can use hosting companies' "network test tools", they offer few various sized files for download from various datacenters. at least you can get that part of your answer
1050 [14:56:17] <b1ack0p> i tried ntop but it says unable to locate package
1051 [14:56:24] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: CLI = command line interface.
1052 [14:56:41] <b1ack0p> cybercrypto: i cant go ookla website..
1053 [14:56:43] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: Download speedtest CLI from oakla website.
1054 [14:56:44] <ratrace> does ntop even run such tests
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1056 [14:56:52] <b1ack0p> no idea
1057 [14:57:03] <qman__> no, ntop does not run such tests, it just shows processes using the network
1058 [14:57:06] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: install CLI browser and download it (lynx will do the job)
1059 [14:57:08] <ratrace> afaik it's just a "top", it doesn't have a remote side like iperf
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1061 [14:57:26] <b1ack0p> okkkk i will check on another laptop
1062 [14:57:27] <b1ack0p> nvm
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1064 [14:58:33] <cybercrypto> ratrace: you are correct, it only shows measurements of current activities. It does not fires requests.
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1070 [15:01:56] <tosted> is safe disable all ipv6 on debian?
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1072 [15:02:31] <tarzeau_> if you have ipv4 working, i don't see why it should not, i think ReduceDebian wiki.debian entry even has something about it
1073 [15:03:19] <jelly> !noipv6
1074 [15:03:19] <dpkg> From Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" onwards, <IPv6> is built into the Linux kernel (excluding the loongson-2f flavour). To disable IPv6, add the kernel command line option ipv6.disable=1 to your bootloader.
1075 [15:04:00] <tarzeau_> jelly: so this is not relevant anymore? replaced-url
1076 [15:04:01] <jelly> it's unfortunate that there are situations where that helps
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1078 [15:05:08] <cws> tosted: What's the particular reason for disabling it?
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1080 [15:05:19] <jelly> tarzeau_, I'm not sure what that page is about, but manually removing packaged files only makes sense for very special embedded purposes
1081 [15:05:42] <tarzeau_> jelly: that is exactly what it's about
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1084 [15:07:35] <jelly> tarzeau_, do we have any reason to believe tosted is asking to create a tiny embedded setup? If we don't then it's not relevant.
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1087 [15:09:12] <jelly> tarzeau_, that part of said page does not seem to have been updated since multiarch. So, like, Debian 7
1088 [15:09:32] <jelly> my iptables userspace-side modules are in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xtables/
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1091 [15:11:14] <finalbeta> Hi, not sure if I can ask this here. I want to include the Zabbix repo in unattended upgrades config. I know how to do this by taking the Origin/Suite part from the repo file in /var/lib/apt/lists/. But the zabbix repo only has the Origin tag and not the Suite tag. Any pointers on what to look for please?
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1093 [15:12:14] <karlpinc> finalbeta: If you're using Debian it's the right place to ask.
1094 [15:12:27] *** Joins: tosted (~tosted@replaced-ip )
1095 [15:12:32] <finalbeta> That I am ;)
1096 [15:15:55] <tosted> abrotman: tnks for your answer last day. net issues when tried to rejoin this channel!
1097 [15:17:16] <tosted> cybercrypto: yes. not all people know how this works, but i was reconfing some packages. tks
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1101 [15:19:11] <cybercrypto> tosted: Sure. :-) I dont recall the originals for that... but it is ok.
1102 [15:20:23] <finalbeta> Ok, nevermind the unattended-upgrades question. I've done did some edit, we shall see. :D
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1105 [15:25:14] <ratrace> she done already done had herses!
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1109 [15:27:40] <abrotman> tosted: hopefully it worked out
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1111 [15:29:08] <hegemoOn> is ntp belonging to default debian standard install
1112 [15:29:25] <hegemoOn> or only timesyncd is default time service from systemd
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1114 [15:29:56] <ratrace> I think timesyncd is the default, yes. at least no ntpd with debootstrap'd installations
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1116 [15:31:46] <avernos> I want to accelerate the update of systemd-timesync. I was thinking to start it After=network-online.target but current configuration has remount-fs and sysusers. I dont know these 2, could it conflict somehow?
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1118 [15:32:13] <ratrace> hegemoOn: package ntp, Priority: optional
1119 [15:32:38] <avernos> i guess remount-fs is for filesystem, but me thinks i dont need wait for filesystem?
1120 [15:33:22] <hegemoOn> ratrace: glad
1121 [15:33:29] <hegemoOn> thanks for the answer
1122 [15:33:32] <hegemoOn> i win my point
1123 [15:33:43] <hegemoOn> f***ing noob admin
1124 [15:33:50] <ratrace> hegemoOn: ?
1125 [15:34:03] <hegemoOn> ratrace: unix team is provisionning server with bmaas
1126 [15:34:20] <hegemoOn> i ask them to remove ntp cause its interfering with timesyncd
1127 [15:34:28] <hegemoOn> which is default time service on debian
1128 [15:34:35] <ratrace> avernos: afaik that service does the RO->RW remounting on boot. methinks timesyncd might be wanting a writeable fs
1129 [15:34:53] <hegemoOn> they told me to write an ansible workaround role to fix this
1130 [15:35:03] <ratrace> hegemoOn: can't interfere, the timesyncd service has a condition which prevents it to run if ntpd is present
1131 [15:35:12] <hegemoOn> i ask them to respect standard default install and not install complementary packages
1132 [15:35:17] <hegemoOn> yes
1133 [15:35:22] <ratrace> ConditionFileIsExecutable=!/usr/sbin/ntpd
1134 [15:35:24] <hegemoOn> that's what i mean by interfering
1135 [15:35:29] <ratrace> ah k
1136 [15:35:50] <hegemoOn> timesyncd not syncrhonising with remote ntp servers when ntpd is installed
1137 [15:35:59] <ratrace> right
1138 [15:37:31] <hegemoOn> removing package is not idempotent
1139 [15:37:45] <avernos> ratrace, what about sysusers? isnt remounting needed before networkonline.target? wont timesync keep new data until RW is possible?
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1141 [15:39:04] <ratrace> avernos: might be needed. I don't know if timesyncd buffers "until fs is writeable". but .... what problem exactly are you trying to solve?
1142 [15:40:11] <avernos> ratrace, i donnot have a time battery, and time refreshes onboot. Just timesyncd takes its time, not sure why and im hoping to update time sooner or faster
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1146 [15:42:02] <cybercrypto> avernos: I have similar case (bios without battery) and I launch ntpd stratum 12 locally, to sync rigth after OS starts.
1147 [15:42:09] <ratrace> avernos: well, it certainly has some dependencies like it requires DNS to work per default configuration, querying debian's NTP pool, which may take time to resolve
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1149 [15:43:01] <ratrace> maybe you can shove that earlier in the boot process with some service unit adjustments and using ip addresses instead of pool hostnames
1150 [15:43:07] <ratrace> or even from initramfs
1151 [15:43:14] <avernos> ratrace, sure, but most of the time, i find my self able to ping debian.com before i get time, sometimes quite long
1152 [15:44:05] <cybercrypto> ratrace: avernos: Yes. If you also use '-g' flag running ntpd, the time gets updated no matter the time offset is...
1153 [15:44:31] <avernos> uhm, i like the idea to get the IPs there, thanks. but not really going to change anything i think
1154 [15:44:33] <ratrace> yes with -g you can loosen the constraints and allow large time jumps
1155 [15:44:46] <ratrace> avernos: maybe you can shove something as simple as chrony into initramfs
1156 [15:45:00] <ratrace> unless timedatectl can be scripted to work from initramfs too
1157 [15:45:11] <avernos> ratrace, ha, yeah, was just thinking i havent tried that
1158 [15:45:30] <ratrace> I wouldn't run ntpd anyhow, because it's a beast and a (sometimes vulnerable) server itself, which is not needed in client situations
1159 [15:45:54] <avernos> cybercrypto, thanks! im good with timesync, im more familiar with ntpd but want to keep it like that
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1161 [15:46:47] <avernos> just want to get along with timesync, had a feeling would be easy to get it to update earlier
1162 [15:46:49] <ratrace> avernos: using IPs will certainly shave off the DNS resolving time which on cold start and no upstream caching might take several seconds
1163 [15:47:57] <evilbug> i'm kind of tempted to dual boot instead of just running linux in the vm.
1164 [15:48:00] <evilbug> discuss.
1165 [15:48:52] <evilbug> but then it's much easier to keep stuff going on windows and just pause the linux vm when not using it instead of rebooting into each os. :(
1166 [15:49:01] *** Parts: ValeraRozuvan (~ValeraRoz@replaced-ip ) ()
1167 [15:49:06] <ratrace> why not the other way around
1168 [15:49:10] <section1> use linux as primary desktop
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1171 [15:49:38] <mspe> host ↔ vm
1172 [15:49:43] <evilbug> when working with audio i need windows to have direct access to hardware :(
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1175 [15:50:16] <evilbug> whereas on linux i mainly do web dev and it's easy to pause the vm then pick back up quick.
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1177 [15:50:40] <evilbug> i guess i have my answer but i just don't like it.
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1179 [15:51:27] <ratrace> evilbug: if you have sufficient hardware, you can pci-passthrough audio things into the windows VM
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1185 [15:56:50] <evilbug> ratrace doesn't that involve recompiling the kernel and a bunch of other processes?
1186 [15:57:28] <evilbug> first and foremost i would want windows to have access to the cpu.
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1188 [15:57:46] <evilbug> then usb/tb.
1189 [15:57:59] *** Parts: tosted (~tosted@replaced-ip ) ()
1190 [15:58:09] <avernos> anyway, thanks ratrac, found some other options, by default pollmax is 34min will try the chrony as well
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1193 [16:01:24] <qman__> evilbug: no, actually - passthrough is standard fare with modern hardware and virtualization
1194 [16:01:39] <ratrace> evilbug: nope, it doesn't. it only requires reassigning the pci-ids to the vfio-pci driver, and then assigning those pci lanes to the VM
1195 [16:01:42] <qman__> there are still bugs and issues with it, of course, but you don't need to do anything special to enable it
1196 [16:02:09] <ratrace> there are constraints however, the hardware has to be capable
1197 [16:02:26] <ratrace> you need sane iommu grouping because you must assigne whole pci lanes, you can't share a lane between host and a VM.
1198 [16:02:56] <ratrace> and you need "posted interrupts" tech which is available with iirc broadware and newer CPUs, and of course ryzens. without this the interrupt latency is huge
1199 [16:03:09] <ratrace> lol broadware .... broadwell is what I mean
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1202 [16:04:32] <evilbug> well i have a 6700hq in this 14" razer blade.
1203 [16:04:44] <ratrace> avernos: max poll interval is not an issue, that's the interval the polling slides to. you have min polling tho, 32 sec
1204 [16:04:47] <evilbug> i'm sure that should be capable enough.
1205 [16:04:48] <ratrace> (by default)
1206 [16:05:35] <ratrace> evilbug: yes. but the motherboard might have insane iommu groupings. like mine did
1207 [16:06:06] <evilbug> right.
1208 [16:06:09] <ratrace> a thousand usb ports, all on the same pci lane. with most ports unused, I had to buy usb pci extension so I could assing the usb kbd+mouse to the gaming vm
1209 [16:06:12] <evilbug> *sigh*
1210 [16:06:44] <evilbug> i guess i'll stick with my current setup for now.
1211 [16:07:06] <ratrace> but the NerdFactor is low in that one :))
1212 [16:07:08] <evilbug> i'm currently traveling an this laptop is my only viable machine.
1213 [16:07:26] <evilbug> i know, i'd like stability though.
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1215 [16:07:44] <ratrace> what hypervisor are oyu using, virtualbox?
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1217 [16:08:16] <evilbug> either that or kvm.
1218 [16:08:29] <ratrace> I mean on windows host
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1220 [16:08:42] <evilbug> ah, no. vmware.
1221 [16:08:57] *** Joins: digitalD (~dp@replaced-ip )
1222 [16:08:59] <ratrace> which desktop in teh linux vm?
1223 [16:09:40] <evilbug> debian with kde.
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1225 [16:10:02] <evilbug> for the desktop vm i have 4 cores and 8gb dedicated to it.
1226 [16:10:09] <ratrace> can vmware do gpu acceleration? probably requires guest modules.
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1228 [16:10:37] <ratrace> because last time I tried a big DE like KDE or Gnome in virtualbox on windows, the performance was terrible because the DEs, especially gnome, wanted full HW accelerated gpu
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1230 [16:11:29] <evilbug> it can, yeah. i've been installing the open-vm-tools package on both the desktop and headless vms then open-vm-tools-desktop for the desktop. there is a bit of tearing in videos but otherwise feels native in full screen.
1231 [16:11:47] <ratrace> nice.
1232 [16:12:13] <evilbug> enabling 3d accel in vmware then installing that desktop package is really nice.
1233 [16:12:24] <evilbug> with vbox des lag pretty bad.
1234 [16:12:44] <ratrace> yeah, even with vbox guest additions
1235 [16:12:47] <evilbug> with vbox i'd only run headless vms.
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1237 [16:13:06] <ratrace> I read great news lately. virtio-gpu and other nice virtio-things coming in the future
1238 [16:13:21] <evilbug> but yeah, vmware workstation pro can run a linux desktop fast to where it feels like it's running directly on the harware.
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1240 [16:13:33] <evilbug> but they're not here yet!
1241 [16:13:47] <ratrace> yeah, too early
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1243 [16:14:16] <evilbug> however on linux why not just go with qemu, ya know? :)
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1245 [16:15:17] <ratrace> evilbug: yes, and hence the virtio thingies
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1247 [16:16:36] <finalbeta> hmm, unattended upgrades by default doesn't update from debian 10.8 to 10.9. While apt-get update simply does this. How can I make unattended-upgrades do minor update releases please?
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1249 [16:17:44] <evilbug> ratrace let's look forward to the future!
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1256 [16:28:13] <kirk781> Debian, by default, ships with only free drivers, right?
1257 [16:28:18] *** Joins: Enissay (~Enissay@replaced-ip )
1258 [16:28:38] <kirk781> I tried to install it the other day and after a long installation setup, it didn't boot into the GUI despite having on. Xorg crashed as well
1259 [16:28:41] <ratrace> kirk781: with DFSG compliant software, yes
1260 [16:28:59] <ratrace> the "freedom" of that may be subject to opinion
1261 [16:29:28] <kirk781> I assumed video drivers were the issue in that case
1262 [16:30:14] <ratrace> kirk781: no. "ships with" would assume default installations. you can always enable non-free repo and get non-free drivers (kernel modules, dkms thingies) and firmware if you want
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1265 [16:30:48] <kirk781> ratrace, but enabling would require the system to boot up and connect to the internet for first time
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1267 [16:31:09] <kirk781> I have had run Debian with no issues in the past but couldn't get it this time
1268 [16:31:17] <ratrace> kirk781: yes, unless you install with "firmware ISO" and get nonfree NIC software support from the installation itself
1269 [16:31:33] <ratrace> (but that doesn't include nonfree gpu things, afaik)
1270 [16:31:56] <kirk781> I got the small one with Xfce as default. In the past, I had Ethernet access, so no need of GUI to access the repos. However, with wifi, it's different
1271 [16:32:28] <ratrace> that's where the "firmare ISOs" come in the picture
1272 [16:32:44] <ratrace> !firmware images
1273 [16:32:44] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
1274 [16:32:47] <kirk781> Mobile data limits :p
1275 [16:32:59] <kirk781> Hence, I switched to a Debian derived distro :p
1276 [16:33:27] <kirk781> Would fiddling with nomodset gave me a working GUI atleast?
1277 [16:35:06] <ratrace> in debian or in your derived distro you switched to? :)
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1280 [16:38:29] <kirk781> ratrace, I meant Debian.
1281 [16:38:45] <kirk781> I have currently Zorin installed, which is Debian derived
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1287 [16:50:25] <ioxzev1z> Where are boot logs stored? I mean the lines with [ OK ] and [FAIL], etc
1288 [16:51:27] <sig_9> dmesg
1289 [16:51:32] <sig_9> sudo dmesg
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1302 [17:02:31] <ratrace> kirk781: I've seen that fix some problems yes. not sure which ones exactly
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1312 [17:11:51] <g0zzy> ntfs-3g mount attempt: "The device '/dev/nvme0n1p3' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS." Could this be due to encryption in some way?
1313 [17:12:29] <ioxzev1z> g0zzy, iirc can encrypt, so maybe
1314 [17:12:45] <ioxzev1z> does the disk work on a 'doze system?
1315 [17:13:10] <g0zzy> Yes it does
1316 [17:13:32] <g0zzy> /dev/nvme0n1p3: DOS/MBR boot sector, code offset 0x58+2, OEM-ID "-FVE-FS-", sectors/cluster 8, reserved sectors 0, Media descriptor 0xf8, sectors/track 63, heads 255, hidden sectors 239616, FAT (32 bit), sectors/FAT 8160, serial number 0x0, unlabeled; NTFS, sectors/track 63, physical drive 0x1fe0, $MFT start cluster 393217, serial number 02020454d414e204f, checksum 0x41462020
1317 [17:13:58] <g0zzy> (file -s)
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1325 [17:20:04] <ioxzev1z> g0zzy, what is your ntfs-3g command?
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1330 [17:25:50] <g0zzy> Just ntfs-3g /dev/nvme0n1p3 win
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1342 [17:31:03] <Stonefruit> I have some unallocated space within a LUKS partition, which contains my debian virtual group (hope I am using the right terms). I'd like to extend my virtual group to all of the unallocated space. what is the easiest way to do this?
1343 [17:31:26] <Stonefruit> can it be done without booting into Debian-live, etc.?
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1347 [17:34:01] <wintersky> what's the best way to install vbox on bullseye?
1348 [17:34:08] <wintersky> building from source?
1349 [17:34:35] <ioxzev1z> Stonefruit, are you using LVM?
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1352 [17:37:32] <Stonefruit> ioxzev1z, yes, I am.
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1355 [17:37:55] <ioxzev1z> so you have LUKS(LVM(...)). Just lvextend then?
1356 [17:38:27] <Aurora_v_kosmose> How hard would it be to package something which Guix packages? That is, they already have what patches are necessary for builds to exclusively use local resources (rather than maven's stuff).
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1363 [17:41:20] <ioxzev1z> lvextend, then (if ext4) resize2fs on the device without a specified size
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1365 [17:42:35] <Stonefruit> this is what I did: $ sudo resize2fs /dev/mapper/nvme0n1p3_crypt
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1370 [17:44:23] <Stonefruit> ahh, that was wrong!
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1372 [17:45:04] <Stonefruit> $ sudo resize2fs /dev/mapper/debian11--vg-home results in "The filesystem is already 42228736 (4k) blocks long. Nothing to do!". does this mean I don't actually have unallocated space?
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1374 [17:46:28] <ioxzev1z> no, lvextend -L <size> /dev/mapper/<dev>_crypt; to extend the LVM partition to the specified size inside the LUKS container. You then have to resize2fs /dev/mapper/<dev>; to resize the ext4 partition to the size of the LVM partition that you just extended. No?
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1377 [17:47:53] <ioxzev1z> So with vg-home being your LVM partition, lvextend -L <size>G /dev/mapper/debian11--vg-home; resize2fs /dev/mapper/debian11--vg-home;
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1379 [17:48:38] <ioxzev1z> Where -L <size>G means e.g. size=50, 50GiB
1380 [17:48:42] <Stonefruit> ioxzev1z, sorry, I'm a bit slow. I've never used LUKS or LVM before, so I am googling what I'm typing :)
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1382 [17:49:47] <ioxzev1z> Stonefruit, lvextend extends an LVM partition, resize2fs extends (as above with no size) the partition specified to the size of the device (in this case the size of the LVM partition)
1383 [17:49:59] <ioxzev1z> Hence you lvextend, then resize2fs inside. Not the other way around
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1385 [17:50:40] <ioxzev1z> In your case LUKS doesn't actually factor into the situation at all assuming you don't need to resize a LUKS partition.
1386 [17:51:09] <ioxzev1z> But good idea to use LVM, much easier to modify
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1392 [17:53:07] <Stonefruit> ioxzev1z, thanks! it worked, and I think I understand what's going on
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1394 [17:54:30] <Stonefruit> so a second speculative question: if I now wanted to replace the hard drive with a larger one, could I dd the current one to the new one, then somehow resize the LUKS container, then repeat what you just showed me, and stick that drive into my laptop?
1395 [17:55:16] <g0zzy> Thanks for interaction - might try to look in the laptop's bios if there's some sort of 'don't encrypt' option
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1407 [18:04:43] <rustyshackleford> I have a usb exfat drive that I use for backups
1408 [18:05:00] <rustyshackleford> so I'm playing around with rsync. It seems like file permissions are a problem
1409 [18:07:35] <ratrace> more like, using exfat is the problem.
1410 [18:07:39] <rustyshackleford> so after syncing, I run the same command. And rsync will back everything up
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1412 [18:08:01] <rustyshackleford> because permissions, access times don't match
1413 [18:08:23] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: seems that way
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1415 [18:09:24] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: why do you use it? sharing with windows?
1416 [18:09:39] <rustyshackleford> that was the idea
1417 [18:09:51] <g0zzy> Format it as NTFS
1418 [18:09:58] <rustyshackleford> well Mac actually
1419 [18:10:05] <rustyshackleford> if I wanted to, I could plug it into my laptop and use the files directly
1420 [18:11:06] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: you could still use exfat for that, or ntfs, and tell rsync to ignore permissions or timestamps and/or use only checksums
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1422 [18:11:20] <ratrace> checksums might not be ideal tho
1423 [18:11:40] <ratrace> but wait, are you sure it copies over all the data again?
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1425 [18:11:54] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: I use the -P flag
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1427 [18:12:04] <rustyshackleford> and it seems to show it copying everything again
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1429 [18:12:42] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: rsync progress will show a file "transferred" even if it has to amend metadata. at the end you see the "speedup" in that it didn't copy over delta blocks that weren't modified
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1432 [18:14:24] <ratrace> you can use --itemize-changes to actually see changes done per file
1433 [18:14:45] <rustyshackleford> and it flags everything as changed
1434 [18:14:54] <rustyshackleford> on subsequent runs
1435 [18:16:14] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: what's the speedup at the end?
1436 [18:17:08] <rustyshackleford> not sure I understand the question
1437 [18:17:16] <rustyshackleford> it takes a long time
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1439 [18:17:56] <ratrace> rsync reports "speedup" at the end which is some sort of ratio between total bytes surveyed and bytes actually transferred
1440 [18:18:06] <rustyshackleford> well we know exfat is a problem
1441 [18:18:18] <rustyshackleford> or are you suggesting that I can make this work on an exfat drive?
1442 [18:18:41] <ratrace> maybe. if you tell rsync to ignore owners for example
1443 [18:19:08] <rustyshackleford> exfat seemed appropriate for a usb drive that I might share between computers
1444 [18:20:00] <rustyshackleford> is there a file system that would work well for Mac and linux? otherwise I could just go to ext4 or whatever
1445 [18:20:34] <karlpinc> rustyshackleford: FWIW, having the time synced on both computers "helps".
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1447 [18:21:15] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: can you install ZFS on a mac?
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1450 [18:21:57] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: apparently you can
1451 [18:22:09] <rustyshackleford> now the question is, does it work well?
1452 [18:22:29] <ratrace> no idea.
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1454 [18:23:32] <rustyshackleford> I could probably live with not being able to plug this drive into my mac
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1457 [18:24:15] <rustyshackleford> I'll tinker a bit with trying to ignore owner and permissions
1458 [18:24:22] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: but I'd really try another test with rsync. if you don't use its options to transfer permissions, owners, xattrs and other thingies exfat doesn't support, does it work? if it's based only on timestamp difference + delta transfer, it should work in theory
1459 [18:24:33] <ratrace> which options are you using? try just with -r
1460 [18:25:02] <ratrace> try a smaller directory for test. then rerun teh same command. what's the speedup at the end?
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1462 [18:26:34] <rustyshackleford> oh I still have that terminal open
1463 [18:26:38] <rustyshackleford> speedup is 1.00
1464 [18:27:01] <rustyshackleford> using options -avP
1465 [18:27:18] <ratrace> yeah don't use -a . use -r (and yes it won't transfer all those thingies implied with -a )
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1467 [18:27:42] <rustyshackleford> docs suggested that -a is what I want. I don't really understand the difference
1468 [18:27:52] <rustyshackleford> or I don't remember at least
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1470 [18:28:17] <ratrace> -a includes permissions, owners, symlinks which isn't supported on exfat
1471 [18:28:54] <rustyshackleford> so speedup 1.00 means that it had to copy everything again
1472 [18:29:16] <ratrace> yes, greater than 1.00 means blocks were skipped because they're already at the destination
1473 [18:29:18] <rustyshackleford> and the value would be higher if it was recognizing that some files are identical, and so skipping them
1474 [18:29:59] <ratrace> as an alternative ... maybe you can stick a single tarball on that exfat. a tarball can store all the metadata the linux supports so you don't lose it, AND it can do delta updates. a bit.... wieldly.... but... does the job
1475 [18:30:23] <rustyshackleford> I should have used a smaller directory...
1476 [18:30:40] <rustyshackleford> but progress seems to indicate that its copying everything again, even with the -r flag
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1481 [18:31:49] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: try including --times
1482 [18:32:00] <ratrace> rsync -rtv /source/... /mnt/dest/...
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1485 [18:33:09] <ratrace> forgot -t was implied with -a and that's one thing that's kinda important here
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1487 [18:33:36] <rustyshackleford> operation not permitted
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1490 [18:33:52] <ratrace> aha!
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1495 [18:34:31] <ratrace> how are you mounting that exfat, what options are you using?
1496 [18:34:33] <rustyshackleford> what does that tell you?
1497 [18:34:40] <rustyshackleford> mount -t exfat
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1499 [18:35:25] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: as your user or root?
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1501 [18:35:43] <rustyshackleford> as sudo
1502 [18:35:55] <ratrace> it tells me mount options are possibly missing and it isn't setting modification times which retriggers rsync to copy over again
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1504 [18:36:06] <rustyshackleford> and then the owner of these files are another user
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1506 [18:36:18] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: and then how are you running rsync? as root?
1507 [18:36:22] <rustyshackleford> mediaservice is a non root user that runs Plex and some other stuff
1508 [18:36:31] <rustyshackleford> and so it owns all of the backing files
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1510 [18:36:50] <rustyshackleford> I'm running sudo -su mediaservice rsync ...
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1513 [18:38:08] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: does that user have the permission to write into mounted exfat directory?
1514 [18:38:24] <rustyshackleford> seems that way yeah
1515 [18:38:34] <rustyshackleford> even though the exfat drive was mounted as root
1516 [18:39:22] <ratrace> doesn't make any sense. can you pastebin the output of `mount` ? you can grep it just for the exfat entry and if it's a single line, paste here
1517 [18:39:25] <ratrace> should be a single line
1518 [18:40:06] <rustyshackleford> ahhh my copy and paste is broken in tmux
1519 [18:40:09] <rustyshackleford> just a second
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1521 [18:40:27] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: .... | nc termbin.com 9999
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1524 [18:41:15] <rustyshackleford> /dev/sdc1 on /media/usb type fuseblk (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096)
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1526 [18:42:08] <ratrace> oh right that's FUSE ....
1527 [18:42:36] <rustyshackleford> thanks for the help by the way
1528 [18:42:51] <Aurora_v_kosmose> What to do with buildpackage if upstream doesn't bother to tag?
1529 [18:43:09] <rustyshackleford> so that was a good question. Is there a problem with the way I have these users set up?
1530 [18:43:39] <rustyshackleford> I was thinking I probably shouldn't run rsync as root
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1534 [18:44:26] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: that really depends a lot. rsyncing as root allows syncing files that belong to multiple users
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1536 [18:44:37] <wintersky> will vbox get to bullseye?
1537 [18:45:04] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: and I definitely don't want Plex or transmission running as root
1538 [18:45:21] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: as for your particular case here ... I'm not really at home with FUSE things, so I'm not sure how that changes things, but normally with filesystems that don't support linux permissions, you mount with uid,gid options for the user you want to be able to write normally
1539 [18:45:37] <rustyshackleford> gotcha
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1542 [18:45:57] <rustyshackleford> so basically, I specify who owns this drive
1543 [18:46:04] <rustyshackleford> since it has no concept of ownership or permissions
1544 [18:46:17] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: that said, I'm not sure how you could transfer anything, if it was mounted with root ownership and you rsync'ed as mediaservice
1545 [18:46:23] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: exactly
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1548 [18:47:13] <ratrace> so when you remount with proper uid,gid try rsync -rv again
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1550 [18:47:28] <rustyshackleford> and I'm starting to think I should just format my backup drive as ext4
1551 [18:47:50] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: well what's your filesystem of choice? you seem to know a lot about these
1552 [18:47:54] <ratrace> well you're definitely losing metadata when storing to exfat
1553 [18:48:01] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: zfs and btrfs :)
1554 [18:48:12] <rustyshackleford> I guess I just pick ext4 because that's what ubuntu did by default
1555 [18:49:13] <rustyshackleford> I would like to play around with raid configs at some point too. need a server with more drive bays
1556 [18:49:56] <ratrace> since I started using zfs and btrfs, I never looked back. I couldn't imagine storing data I care about on anything else, and without sufficient redundancy in RAID
1557 [18:49:56] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: so a guy in another channel had a backup system that seemed really convenient. something like this:
1558 [18:50:21] <rustyshackleford> 3 drives total. 2 in the machine, using something that made them redundant (raid?)
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1562 [18:50:57] <rustyshackleford> the other drive is offline backup. To "update" your backups, you take one drive out of the machine, and put your old offline backup into the machine
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1565 [18:52:42] <ratrace> welp, that "works" but it's really abusing degraded raid state and resilvering
1566 [18:53:21] <oxek> wintersky: unlikely
1567 [18:53:44] <ratrace> and it's fiddly. last tiem I fiddled with hot swappable drives I accidentally dislogded the sata cable of a raid member. hilarity ensued int he log files but since that was btrfs and there was redundancy, it just hummed along, corrected all the nonsense that I caused
1568 [18:53:48] <oxek> maybe into bullseye-backports, in case oracle becomes friendlier
1569 [18:54:11] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: if that were mdadm, I'd have unhappy times.
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1571 [18:54:49] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: but with zfs and btrfs you don't need to abuse resilvering to get speed. I guess they did so to get block-level resilvery speed, as opposed to filesystem level which is much slower
1572 [18:55:02] <ratrace> zfs and btrfs "send" does block|extent level transfers
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1583 [19:05:31] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: anything convenient that you suggest?
1584 [19:05:52] <rustyshackleford> a usb drive seems like a janky backup system
1585 [19:07:09] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: it is, so it's even more a reason to stick btrfs or zfs on that, as they do data checksumming
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1587 [19:08:01] <ratrace> even without redundancy, these two can find and point at corruption so you can replace the files. ext4 other fs that don't do data checksums, have no such checks and balances
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1601 [19:21:01] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: can you format a filesystem in place?
1602 [19:21:18] <rustyshackleford> ext4 to zfs or whatever?
1603 [19:21:44] <rustyshackleford> Or I could just wait until I build a new server
1604 [19:22:04] <sney> the ext* generations could be upgraded in place, but btrfs's convert utility was so broken that it's not in the debian package anymore
1605 [19:22:22] <sney> generally if you want a new filesystem, you backup, reformat, and restore
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1607 [19:24:03] <rustyshackleford> that works for some of my drives
1608 [19:24:20] <rustyshackleford> what about / though? I'm looking at a fresh OS install then
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1611 [19:24:45] <sney> sometimes it's the only option
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1613 [19:25:06] <rustyshackleford> so I'll save it for my new server I guess
1614 [19:25:11] <sney> luckily apt has various options for cloning your environment, or at least getting back to a similar state
1615 [19:25:33] <rustyshackleford> how do I find out when I installed this OS?
1616 [19:25:46] <rustyshackleford> this is one of the longest times I've run a linux install
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1619 [19:26:01] <sney> look at the filesystem creation date for your / disk
1620 [19:26:08] <rustyshackleford> usually I end up tinkering too much, breaking something, reinstalling within 6 months
1621 [19:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1076
1622 [19:28:13] <rustyshackleford> December 30, 2018
1623 [19:28:18] <rustyshackleford> that's not that long ago
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1657 [20:06:09] <jhutchins> TheBigK02: /msg judd kernels
1658 [20:06:18] <jhutchins> ,k
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1661 [20:06:36] <jhutchins> ,kernels
1662 [20:06:37] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-5-686 (5.10.26-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-5-686 (5.10.24-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (5.10.19-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-
1663 [20:06:38] <judd> backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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1670 [20:13:07] <ironm> Hello. Please allow me short question: Is there QR code reader for debian buster 10.9 to extract binary content of the QR image ?
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1673 [20:14:13] <ironm> I have tried zbar-tools but the I was not able to get the same content as the origin encoding the binary file using " qrencode -o msrsa-pub.gpg-qrcode.png -r msrsa-pub.gpg -8"
1674 [20:14:27] <ironm> thank you in advance for all hints
1675 [20:14:31] <oxek> ironm: zbar-tools and qrencode
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1677 [20:15:18] <jhutchins> ironm: I don't think there's an internal one that would read digital codes. There are probably browser extensions that would.
1678 [20:15:39] <jhutchins> ironm: You would need at least a built-in or external camera.
1679 [20:16:06] <jhutchins> ironm: A generic stand-alone reader would work if you can get the software for it.
1680 [20:16:11] <ironm> oxek, thank you. How can I extract binary content to file? Using the "--xml" option I can see the somehow encoded binary content and additional QR code headers
1681 [20:17:18] <ironm> jhutchins, thank you. Till now I did not find any QR reader extracting the raw binary content for the QR image (png)
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1683 [20:18:48] <ironm> s/for / from /
1684 [20:19:48] <ironm> I have tried also "qtqr" .. but it is more like viewer only
1685 [20:20:55] <ironm> I have tried also "qtqr" .. but it is more like viewer only
1686 [20:21:04] <ironm> I see there is also another one - qreator
1687 [20:21:07] <ironm> sorry
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1697 [20:34:42] <jhutchins> Np
1698 [20:35:15] <jhutchins> ironm: What kind of codes are you anticipating?
1699 [20:35:38] <jhutchins> Anybody remember QueCat?
1700 [20:37:38] <ironm> jhutchins, I want to put encoded public key (RSA 4096) on the business card and I am looking how to read this key back
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1702 [20:38:26] <ironm> only public keys in binary format (because of the size)
1703 [20:38:47] <ironm> otherwise I have to split
1704 [20:38:59] <ironm> when using .asc
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1709 [20:47:19] <mentor> ironm: You want to end with it outputting directly a file with a name with the relevant content?
1710 [20:49:05] <ironm> mentor, yes, only the encoded binary content
1711 [20:49:28] <ironm> without QR code headers etc.
1712 [20:50:15] <ironm> the name of the file is not important
1713 [20:51:53] <ironm> mentor, it is working for splited key in .asc format (into two parts because of the size and QR code limitations)
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1715 [20:52:31] <ironm> but not for binary content (smaller size just fitting QR code limitations)
1716 [20:54:30] <greycat> I missed the context -- are you trying to store binary data in a bash variable?
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1718 [21:00:27] <mentor> ironm: There seems to be a number of options for zbar to output in various formats.
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1766 [21:43:07] <oxek> ironm: why not just put the fingerprint of the key on the business card?
1767 [21:43:33] <oxek> or use ecc keys which are shorter
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1784 [21:55:38] <ironm> mentor, there is no option to extract binary content only
1785 [21:56:11] <mentor> ironm: Parse out the other bits?
1786 [21:56:17] <ironm> greycat, no I try to extract binary content from a QR image into a file
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1788 [21:56:55] <ironm> mentor, when I would know how.. the data inside the xml output is encoded
1789 [21:57:26] <mentor> ironm: I think you have your language set to Yoda?
1790 [21:57:36] <ironm> oxek, I put the public key on the back side of the card
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1792 [21:58:45] <ironm> oxek, gnupg 2.2.27 does not support ecc keys (as far as I can follow)
1793 [21:59:42] <ironm> mentor, I am sorry, I am not able to follow what do you mean with "Yoda"
1794 [21:59:49] <oxek> ironm: gpg --version
1795 [21:59:59] <ironm> gpg (GnuPG) 2.2.27
1796 [22:00:06] <oxek> if you see ECDSA or EDDSA or ECsomething, then it supports ECC keys
1797 [22:00:31] <ironm> I do not see
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1799 [22:00:47] <ironm> sorry.. I see
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1801 [22:01:02] <ironm> Öff. Schlüssel: RSA, ELG, DSA, ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA
1802 [22:01:10] <mentor> ironm: I don't know what this means: "when I would know how.. the data inside the xml output is encoded"
1803 [22:01:57] <oxek> ironm: also, you're using non-debian gnupg (or not using debian-stable), so thing might be different
1804 [22:02:08] <ironm> mentor, thank you. I will have to check it in case I do not find another solution
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1806 [22:02:43] <ironm> oxek, I run debian buster 10.9 with backported gnupg (from bullseye
1807 [22:02:45] <ironm> )
1808 [22:03:16] <oxek> hmm, intersting, I didn't think gnupg would get backports
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1810 [22:05:16] <ironm> apt-get install gnupg/buster-backports
1811 [22:06:02] <oxek> anyway, your gnupg supports all the fancy ecc crypto
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1814 [22:07:34] <ironm> but not most of other applications are able to import such public keys (ecc crypto) ... as far as I can follow
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1817 [22:09:33] <oxek> ironm: nobody is going to be using your key anyway, realistically
1818 [22:10:31] <ironm> oxek, at least I can myself run tests using different keys and different email addresses
1819 [22:10:47] <oxek> I've been signing all my emails, all software releases, and published my keys in all the keyservers, for over 20 years and have never received an encrypted message. Plus I'm pretty sure nobody checks the signatures either.
1820 [22:11:24] <ironm> oxek, maybe you will get an encrypted message from me ;-)
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1822 [22:12:00] <ironm> when I get it running with thunderbird or another email client
1823 [22:12:16] <greycat> I used to check signatures, or at least, I had configured mutt to do it for me, and I would import keys periodically... but I gave up on it a while back
1824 [22:12:56] <oxek> pretty much all my communication is in the public anyway, or intended to be published
1825 [22:13:03] <ironm> greycat, why have you given up?
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1827 [22:13:59] <ironm> oxek, for public communication it is Ok
1828 [22:14:12] <greycat> it's a lot of hassle for no real gains, especially when Debian keeps swapping out versions of mutt, and versions of gpg
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1830 [22:15:07] <ironm> greycat, yes, it is a bit hard
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1834 [22:16:31] <oxek> I'd like to use mutt, but have been told it won't work because my filesystems use noatime
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1837 [22:16:57] <ironm> oxek, do you run linux or something else ?
1838 [22:17:12] <oxek> ironm: in this channel, I run debian
1839 [22:17:24] <ironm> :-)
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1841 [22:18:32] <ironm> gpg --full-gen-key | (2) DSA und Elgamal
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1844 [22:20:42] <ironm> I am not sure how to create "ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA" public keys using "gpg --full-gen-key"
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1846 [22:21:42] <oxek> probably need --expert
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1848 [22:21:47] <aig> is around here a programmer girl ?
1849 [22:22:01] <oxek> aig: what's that?
1850 [22:22:10] <aig> a girl who is programming
1851 [22:22:14] <greycat> We do not ask for people's sex here.
1852 [22:22:22] <aig> okey
1853 [22:22:31] <ironm> oxek, yes, thank you!
1854 [22:22:33] <oxek> I'm so stupid for not realizing what 'girl' meant...
1855 [22:22:49] <oxek> thought it was g-i-r-l
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1857 [22:23:46] <ironm> (9) ECC und ECC
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1861 [22:24:13] <ironm> (1) Curve 25519
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1868 [22:25:08] <ironm> well, no idea it there is a better choiced like "(8) Brainpool P-512" or "(9) secp256k1"
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1870 [22:25:19] <ironm> s/it /if /
1871 [22:25:21] <oxek> ironm: maybe best if you find some good online guide for how to create ECC keys in new gnupg, rather than blindly creating stuff you might not be famliar with
1872 [22:25:28] <oxek> especially since it is crypto related
1873 [22:25:35] <greycat> there's a #gnupg channel as well
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1875 [22:25:51] <ironm> greycat, no one is answering there at the moment
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1879 [22:26:29] <oxek> it's a fairly low-volume channel
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1902 [22:27:18] <ironm> oxek, I was reading a lot one or two years ago ...
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1904 [22:27:45] <ironm> but can not remember Brainpool P-512 or secp256k1
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1906 [22:28:03] <oxek> ironm: replaced-url
1907 [22:28:20] <ironm> only that NIST curves are unsafe
1908 [22:28:29] <oxek> "unsafe"
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1912 [22:29:10] <ironm> oxek, thanks a lot for the link
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1917 [22:32:59] <EdePopede> oxek, from me too. bookmarked again the domain.
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1919 [22:34:41] <oxek> it's a good site, from two very respected people
1920 [22:35:25] <ironm> from supported options (gnupg 2.2.27) only "Curve 25519" seems to be "safe"
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1922 [22:37:11] <oxek> curve25519 is popular in many places
1923 [22:38:02] <ironm> I have created just new keys and will run some tests
1924 [22:38:33] <ironm> (9) ECC und ECC / (1) Curve 25519
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1926 [22:41:22] <ironm> pub ed25519 2021-04-08 [SC] [verfällt: 2021-04-18]
1927 [22:41:42] <oxek> I'd still recommend you do some more reading (and feel free to come back if you have questions about what you read)
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1930 [22:42:12] <cws> "unsafe" in this case is a super-nebulous concept that hasn't been supported by anything other than people's feelings.
1931 [22:42:16] <ironm> oxek, in the past ed25519 was my choice
1932 [22:42:36] <ironm> I have to check what software does support such keys
1933 [22:42:55] <ironm> cws, yes, I am a kind of maniac
1934 [22:42:56] <cws> There is zero actual evidence that there is anything unsafe about the NIST curves, other than sucking to implement.
1935 [22:43:12] <cws> ironm: That's not a valid reason upon which to base technical choices.
1936 [22:43:20] <oxek> Suite B and/or certified up to top secret - they are fine to use, if implemented well.
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1939 [22:44:16] <ironm> cws, I trust more non US people
1940 [22:44:34] <cws> See the previous. That's not a valid reason upon which to base technical choices.
1941 [22:45:07] <ironm> cws, well there is some long bad experience
1942 [22:45:20] <cws> See the previous. That's not a valid reason upon which to base technical choices. I can keep going.
1943 [22:45:33] <cws> Besides, I wonder how many Debian contributors are "US people."
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1946 [22:45:45] <cws> You may want to watch your proverbial mouth.
1947 [22:46:26] <ironm> well, I said what I think
1948 [22:46:45] <cws> And what you think isn't founded on anything real, so it would bear serious reconsideration and adjustment.
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1950 [22:46:49] <ironm> it might not be 100% politically correct
1951 [22:47:05] <cws> It's not, and its verging on discriminatory.
1952 [22:47:25] <cws> If I said "I don't trust French people," I'd expect to get kicked the hell out.
1953 [22:47:37] <cws> So knock it off.
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1959 [22:52:08] <ironm> cws. from my point ov view there are three recommended choices for now (gnuppg 2.2.27): RSA 4096, DSA 3072 and ECC ed25519
1960 [22:52:28] <ironm> I tend myself to ECC ed25519
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1962 [22:54:22] <ironm> cws, now I have checked the meaning of "verging on discriminatory" .. it is not that.
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1964 [22:54:52] <ironm> US people are politically limited (controlled) and that is the point
1965 [22:55:25] <ironm> not the US people themself
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1967 [22:55:53] <oxek> ironm: it really is getting very much offtopic for #debian
1968 [22:56:25] <ironm> oxek, you are right
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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