119[01:58:59] <awal1> any better way to launch a few programs a few MINUTES after X is reached? (openbox) I already use "sleep" command but I thought that there is maybe something "better"?
153[03:16:37] <sney> awal1: I don't know if openbox has a builtin for this, but you could use a 'while' loop to delay starting your program until something else is detected, like 'pidof' output or so. replaced-url
154[03:17:10] <sney> usually when people ask for a way to delay something for x time, what they really want is to avoid a race condition. you can eliminate it altogether by actually checking for the condition you need.
169[03:31:02] <slowly_stuck> I created a network namespace and used a veth pair and a bridge to allow it to communicate with the local network. It starts out not working, but later functions properly. Should I not give the same IP to both veth endpoints? diagram: replaced-url
172[03:34:18] <sney> please use cidr notation in your network diagrams. and no, when you have a tiny segment with 2 endpoints, they should have separate addresses. if you don't want to waste address space you can use a /30 or a /31 even
173[03:35:05] *** Quits: catman370 (~catman@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you later..)
177[03:38:33] <slowly_stuck> thanks sney, I'll cidr in the future. if I give a different IP to one side of the veth, will traffic be able to route back to it? Or is there some kind of automatic NAT rewrite?
182[03:44:04] <sney> but if you set up your routes correctly then traffic will be able to route between your network segments, yes. this is pretty basic networking stuff, virtualized. if you have any networking experience it may help to visualize them as physically separate racks and switches.
183[03:44:34] <sney> if you *don't* have much networking experience and are just trying to hack through it as a linux user, stop, and go watch some video tutorials about networking
185[03:45:47] <slowly_stuck> sney: I understand a bridge (switch), I just don't get what concept to map a veth pair onto. If I ping gateway from net2 namespace, it's coming from .12. Does veth pair also act like a switch? (updated diagram: replaced-url
186[03:46:31] <slowly_stuck> Fundementally, if something on main network ARPs for 10.0.0.12, can the net2 veth respond?
187[03:47:43] <sney> a veth pair is a point to point link. the closest modern analogy is a vpn connection, or the connection between your home router and the ISP.
188[03:48:43] <sney> if your whole network, including both namespaces and this ptp link, are all in the same /24, then you've completely missed the point of having spearate segments
189[03:50:04] <cws> How is a ptp link in a /24?
190[03:50:27] *** Quits: hobbanero (~hobbanero@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
195[03:52:12] * sney is pretty sure "stop, and go watch some video tutorials about networking" is the correct next step
196[03:54:26] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
197[03:55:25] <empty_string> slowly_stuck: think of the veth pairs as two interfaces connected by a regular ethernet cable. any ethernet frames that go on one end will come out the other. from that perspective, bridging v0-main to br0 is like plugging in one end of a cable into a switch. it doesn't really make sense to assign an IP address to that side
198[03:56:13] <empty_string> veth does operate at layer 2, so that's all you need to get ethernet frames into your net2 namespace. when you assign an IP address on v0-net2, then it'll start answering for ARP requests on that address, yes
199[03:57:03] <slowly_stuck> empty_string: yes, that's my goal. So there's no point in assigning an IP to v0-main, I just need to bring up the interface?
200[03:57:19] <empty_string> right, just bring up the interface and attach it to the bridge
202[03:59:02] <slowly_stuck> perfect, thanks empty_string! sney, I'm also trying to self-educate about PTP links, but not finding good documentation (mostly, pages talking about T1s). Do you have a recommended place for me to RTFM?
209[04:02:02] <sney> slowly_stuck: ppp might give you better search results. but honestly, I've been a linux nerd since I was a teenager, and I needed to take some classes years later to really wrap my head around networking stuff. it seems like it should be easy to jump from one to the other but it isn't.
210[04:03:27] <sney> the _concept_ is that it's just 2 ip endpoints in a tube that only talk to each other, and they're 172.16.84.1/31 and 172.16.84.2/31 or whatever, and each endpoint is a router that also has routes for any other directly connected network segments
211[04:03:49] <sney> but if you grind through a ccna course on youtube you'll understand all of this and more
218[04:08:27] <sney> PPP was the dialup protocol. some dsl providers still use it, but be prepared for old articles. the principle still applies though, and tcp/ip hasn't changed in decades
388[08:16:41] *** Quits: riff-IRC (~riff2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
389[08:17:41] <Romko> Ok, while it does mention that it runs great on it, I went to the ports section and it says discontinued and trying to find the installer to download.
466[10:11:01] <f0r3ign3r> Hi there, I'm trying to connect a displayport monitor into the system but it's not being detected by the OS.
467[10:11:02] <f0r3ign3r> I've tried to set dpms off with xset, and tried to run xrandr --auto but no luck.
468[10:11:02] <f0r3ign3r> Secure boot on BIOS is desabled (I read somewhere that it may cause problems), the GPU is an AMD 5700xt with latest available mesa driver. The displayport screen works under windows, but not in Debian (x11). Is there a way to force a hardware rescan to detect the display port monitor? I cannot set an X11 monitor rule since I cannot reach an ID for
493[10:54:50] <ratrace> f0r3ign3r: is that radeon Navi?
494[10:56:53] <klys> so I have here a gateway m275, pentium-mmx laptop. I booted it from a jessie-live cd. watched youtube for a while with firefox. I have a shell open via telnet from another machine, which doesn't want to return my prompt. it's been accessing the cd for a while in repetitive patterns. bit over half an hour.
497[10:57:46] <unborn> hi guys is it safe to delete directory /etc/resolvconf as apt is complaining that folder is not empty?
498[10:58:17] <sigint> f0r3ign3r, FYI I gave up trying to get my 5700xt to work correctly with debian buster. I'm now running testing and everything works well as far as I can tell, although I'm using HDMI so not sure about displayport.
499[10:58:25] <ratrace> unborn: only if "resolvconf" package is not installed and in use
500[10:58:33] <klys> unborn, probably. /etc/resolv.conf however contains a list of dns name servers for internet access.
501[10:58:57] <ratrace> sigint: f0r3ign3r: if that's Navi, I was gonna recommend upgrading the kernel to backports beause 4.19 won't have support for it, it came with 5.x, forgot the x
502[10:59:14] <ratrace> klys: resolv.conf file != resolvconf dir
505[11:00:11] *** Quits: tejr (~tejr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
506[11:00:23] <unborn> ratrace: well last night I've installed debian 10 over debian 9 from live dvdbut not home...apt is complaining when I try to update && upgrade. I think it could be due to old packages perhaps?
508[11:00:40] <sigint> The problem with using the backports kernel is that it doesn't play nice with other parts of the display stack. I haven't figured out exactly what but it seems like different software from different eras don't use the same APIs or something like that.
512[11:01:24] <ratrace> unborn: possible, resolvconf is maybe no longer needed, and I think it's deprecated in 10
513[11:01:32] <f0r3ign3r> sigint I'm on Debian testing now. The spare HDMI monitor is working, but the DisplayPort appears as disconnected everytime, no matter which DP I connect the cable in
514[11:01:39] <f0r3ign3r> clear
515[11:01:40] <unborn> ratrace: here is paste from update replaced-url
516[11:01:49] <klys> unborn, it is. if resolvconf is installed, it'll show up in $ dpkg -l resolvconf
517[11:02:51] <ratrace> unborn: you can't nuke your system if you remove it. worst case, you'll have to manually add a resolver to /etc/resolv.conf to install it back. resolvconf is a piece of software that coalesces resolv.conf from multiple sources. with systemd, that is not longer needed. NM doesn't need it. static resolv.conf doesn't need it.
518[11:03:51] <ratrace> f0r3ign3r: do you have firmware-amd-graphics installed?
550[11:27:50] <ratrace> /sbin/init: symbolic link to /lib/systemd/systemd anyway, so....
551[11:28:18] <unborn> ratrace: I know, perhaps Im old school ;) also I found system go much faster down, it should be safe to use it those days anyway
552[11:30:48] <ratrace> I think that "faster" is just placebo. systemd does the same shutdown.target (or whatsitsname) dance
726[15:44:28] <busternube> is Linux able to provide GAMES solutiotn for these non display GPU card miniing cards etc. can video be re-routed thru screen feature displayed thru another card/port?
727[15:44:50] <busternube> they dont have monitor connectors
728[15:45:56] <busternube> the second card just needs to pass the video doesnt need to calculate the 3d etc no?
729[15:46:10] <shtrb> busternube, pc or laptop ?
730[15:46:30] <busternube> the firmware does not produce video languge
731[15:46:33] <busternube> pv
732[15:46:36] <busternube> pc
733[15:46:38] <busternube> lol
734[15:46:57] <busternube> the mmining card does not speak video
736[15:48:34] <busternube> someone will invent a "wrapper" or something that taps those processors
737[15:49:46] <shtrb> You already can use them to render data, your problem is to take the rendred images and display them fast enough with your onboard card
738[15:50:29] <busternube> divide the labor job the second with the non math parts create a virtual game card with a miner and a second graphic card
740[15:52:17] * EmleyMoor would still like to find computers where *everything* active is on a card - but they're probably next to impossible these days
741[15:53:04] <busternube> im pisssed the bitminers stole my fun
775[16:29:20] <shtrb> [using X] Any suggestion how to debug xclip not putting data into DE's clipboard ? "upitme | xclip " and then xclip -o in the same window works but doing ctrl+V in a different windows does not paste it but ctrl+shift+insert does
834[17:32:48] <mentor> busternube: It's fairly common for laptops to have a discrete GPU that isn't connected to any display output ports, so support for rendering on one GPU and outputting on another is standard.
835[17:33:54] <busternube> so people are already gaming with the miner cards then?
836[17:34:38] <busternube> the only instance i know were hackers that returned them to original by reprograming the firmware
860[17:50:23] <mentor> shtrb: Not to mention tedious to have to maintain software for.
861[17:50:40] <shtrb> At least with Nvidia descrete card there's a physical connection internally, that why you can use your descrete card to play games on the laptop screen
862[17:50:43] <mentor> shtrb: In any case, you can look this up in the XRANDR connection
879[17:58:06] <ChrisH> A while ago I found a SW/extension to do a overlay mount on a mounted filesystem to provide the files encrypted. I want to do a rsync of the encrypted version into a backup cloud. I'm no longer finding it.... Any hints on what I need to search for?
880[18:00:35] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Quit: Je m'en vais ...)
881[18:00:46] <shtrb> reread what I wrote, and what you had said, you are arguing against the what I had said "that discrete cards in laptops are physically connected to the the screen internally"
884[18:02:33] <mentor> shtrb: Yes, I am saying that discrete cards in laptops do not always have a display output to the internal, and indeed, any external screens.
892[18:07:26] <shtrb> mentor, yes, technically there could be a laptop with a discrete card which is not wired to the internal screen (eDP/LVFD etc) , I had NEVER seen such a case, but it is possible.
893[18:07:40] <mentor> shtrb: I am using one now
894[18:07:54] <oxek> ChrisH: gocrypt?
895[18:08:27] <shtrb> mentor, Could you share the model and information on such case ? and do you really mean you have no way to represent the infromation your card on your internal screen ?
896[18:08:51] <ChrisH> mentor: the overlay mount extension. I currently backup using amanda onto a LUKS disk and duplicity does not fit my needs as I need to do full backups to be able to cleanup. A full backup takes about 24h upload :( rsync the delta will be much faster.
910[18:13:19] <mentor> shtrb: It does not export any display hardware to X
911[18:13:36] <shtrb> it's a different thing
912[18:13:55] <mentor> shtrb: No it isn't.
913[18:14:25] <shtrb> A physical lane does not mean there would be a linux driver for it , we do not see what happen LVDS (for old laptops) at all in X level
943[18:24:48] <shtrb> mentor, I had worked with many laptops in my life , I didn't find your laptops schematics yet, and I had NEVER seen a case where the GPU would not be linked to the internal screen over one of the internal lanes, I also doubt your AMD GPU is wired via the intel card and not directly via LVDS/eDP and similar things to your internal screen
945[18:26:04] <Dude-Meister> Hi. I'm running (principally) Debian 10.8.0, but would also appriciate being able to use suggestions in CentOS7 as well. My question is, do I have different options for running a virtual machine (or 3) in Debian as a student of this particular flavor of "Zen and the Art of Linux (Home (PC) Maintenance?"
971[18:30:33] <towo`> aind especialy for optimus, where in 99% the nvidia card is not wired to any display
972[18:31:05] <towo`> shtrb, it was abaout your "I had worked with many laptops in my life , I didn't find your laptops schematics yet, and I had NEVER seen a case where the GPU would not be linked to the internal screen"
974[18:31:33] <Dude-Meister> oxek, of coprse, only for one that is willing to take the time and go through slowly. It'sd very much a rapid-fire presentation.
984[18:39:32] <oxek> imo, the easiest way to get into virtualization is to install the package named qemu-system-x86
985[18:40:20] <oxek> and then start some virtual machine, with some .iso file, using a command like `qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -cdrom /path/to/the/iso/file -m 1024`
986[18:40:33] <Dude-Meister> Even while running a 64 bit machine?
987[18:40:58] <oxek> what would make you think that would be a problem?
988[18:41:26] <Dude-Meister> My profound lack of knowledge, most likely. :)
989[18:42:08] <oxek> there are some resources on the debian wiki
995[18:42:56] <dpkg> The Debian wiki (replaced-url
996[18:43:15] <Dude-Meister> I have some "Lessons" lined up, I just wanted to as a "Pre-Sales" question about a package that has no proice tag before I rioll up my sleeves and start learning about running VMs.
997[18:43:41] <Dude-Meister> wanted to *ask*
998[18:43:54] <oxek> VMs are really simple from a user perspective
999[18:44:33] <oxek> you might also look into containerization technologies (LXC, docker, LXD, ...) since they solve a similar need, while often requiring less resources
1000[18:44:49] <oxek> and once again, all of it is supported on debian
1001[18:46:00] <Dude-Meister> Wow wow wow. All very helpful library references, and I really appreciate your help!
1030[19:17:26] <Caesar_NayKid> Im building a new PC. It is based on an intel i5 Rocket Lake CPU that comes out 3/30 and a Gigabyte motherboard that has z590 chipset with PCI-E 4.0 and a Samsung pro ssd.. im new to Linux and have only tried Ubuntu but want to try Debian now.. however, i read that Debian might not support the newest hardware sometimes.. i was hoping to run into
1031[19:17:26] <Caesar_NayKid> some experienced Debian users who might be able to tell me if they expect I'll have problems
1038[19:21:25] <abrotman> I don't think they have a built PC yet
1039[19:21:27] <Caesar_NayKid> I have not tried Ubuntu on this system.. i have ordered the parts but they don't arrive until next week
1040[19:21:33] <sney> oh, right.
1041[19:21:51] <Caesar_NayKid> So the kernel is a general linux kernel?
1042[19:22:06] <Caesar_NayKid> I should research that first before choosing a distribution?
1043[19:22:20] <Caesar_NayKid> I am super n00b level but trying to learn on the weekends
1044[19:22:28] <sney> hardware support is determined by the kernel, that's where the drivers are.
1045[19:23:06] <sney> intel is a major contributor to the linux kernel, so any intel components will probably work out of the box, with bullseye if not also with buster
1049[19:23:48] <sney> (bullseye is the current testing branch. it'll be released as debian 11 sometime later this year.)
1050[19:24:02] <Caesar_NayKid> I just saw some news about a Debian 11 freeze but im guessing I'd be using Buster?
1051[19:24:44] <sney> that would be up to you. buster is the version you would download from the debian.org main page, though.
1052[19:25:59] <CyberManifest> sney are the net installs selective or are they version oriented ?
1053[19:26:43] <sney> the standard netinstall is version-specific.
1054[19:27:49] <Caesar_NayKid> I mean, i would like to use Bullseye if it's ready to go, but im trying to determine what's the minimum version my hardware will support
1055[19:27:50] <CyberManifest> wouldn't it be more practical to maintain only one net install with selective versioning ?
1059[19:28:37] <CyberManifest> Caesar_NayKid my guess is you'll be fine
1060[19:28:42] <Caesar_NayKid> If this is the wrong place to ask newb questions let me know and I'll gladly redirect to the kiddie pool
1061[19:28:44] <sney> the netinst image also contains a base system, so making it support multiple debian versions would make the iso unreasonably large for a "network" installer
1062[19:28:48] <CyberManifest> Caesar_NayKid and if not right away eventually
1063[19:29:16] <CyberManifest> sney that's fair
1064[19:29:16] <Mister00X> Caesar_NayKid: you could try with different live images of different distros what works.... also there is replaced-url
1065[19:29:23] <sney> there is a mini.iso that *doesn't* have a base system and can be used to install any debian version. it's usually only used for edge cases though.
1066[19:29:33] <Caesar_NayKid> Im looking for a now solution.
1067[19:29:47] <Caesar_NayKid> Not to my questions but to the system
1068[19:30:01] <Caesar_NayKid> Yes i plan to test a few
1069[19:30:06] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: my guess is that bullseye will support your new system with no hassle. buster may be difficult to get going, but should still be possible, as long as you have a second computer to shuffle some packages on to usb drives
1076[19:31:20] <CyberManifest> Caesar_NayKid I'm betting you'll have better results with bullseye
1077[19:31:41] <sney> what typically happens is that the stock buster kernel is too old to support some integrated network and/or video devices, so you install the OS, then manually install the updated kernel from buster-backports. +/- firmware packages if wifi is involved.
1078[19:33:23] <CyberManifest> and all else fails you maintain your own kernel
1079[19:33:36] *** Quits: Zone77xx (Zone77xx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1080[19:34:13] <sney> it is exceedingly rare in 2021 to _need_ to build a custom kernel.
1095[19:39:49] <Caesar_NayKid> I won't be running WiFi if that helps
1096[19:40:49] <sney> it'll make the install slightly smoother, most likely.
1097[19:41:22] <sney> anyway, we can only guess at support until you actually get the system. but I think it'll probably be fine. if you get stuck you can ask here.
1098[19:41:36] <Caesar_NayKid> No special video card just Intel graphics or onboard video
1099[19:41:40] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotcha
1100[19:41:59] <TaZeR> what are general relations like between the debian and mx linux communities? is there a hatred such as the one between archlinux and manjaro, or is it different?
1101[19:42:07] <Caesar_NayKid> I think the main question is the nvme m.2 pci express 4.0
1102[19:42:32] <sney> TaZeR: debian is mostly indifferent to mxlinux, except that mx doesn't have a support channel so their users tend to end up here
1103[19:43:20] <Caesar_NayKid> Apparently AMD has been using pcie 4.0 nvme for a while but i got the impression that was new for Intel motherboards
1104[19:43:46] <TaZeR> interesting, they should start a community support channel atleast
1105[19:43:58] <Caesar_NayKid> I wasn't sure if something that is coming out this week would be in Bullseye
1106[19:44:14] <TaZeR> well i guess thats what they all are, or the devs themselves oversee this channel?
1107[19:44:29] <sney> yeah, I've seen some nvme hardware not get recognized by the buster installer. not sure what makes the difference. but if that's the case, then just install bullseye.
1108[19:44:43] <TaZeR> i imagine the devs might be more upset at how well distros like ubuntu and then mx linux did for themselves based off debians code
1112[19:45:13] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: it's a new chip, but not a new series, right? still a 10th generation cpu? intel will have committed all of the code needed to support those at once
1113[19:45:24] <TaZeR> ive just been testing mx's images for a few days to see what all the hype is about
1114[19:45:37] <Caesar_NayKid> The i3 is 10th gen, i went for the i5 which is 11th gen
1115[19:46:11] <Caesar_NayKid> I was considering ClearOS since it's Intel stuff
1116[19:46:22] <Caesar_NayKid> But idk, i want it to be Debian for some reason
1117[19:46:36] <TaZeR> running side by side in VMs with some of debians latest images
1118[19:47:10] <sney> TaZeR: this is free software, having derivatives is not considered bad, it's just part of the ecosystem. and the more people are working on debian-based stuff, the more fixes and improvements eventually make their way back to debian.
1119[19:48:03] <Caesar_NayKid> What would y'all recommend to run Win10 in a VM on Debian?
1120[19:48:23] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: ok still, haven't 11th gen chips been available for quite a while? there shouldn't be any software changes needed for the new model of an existing chip family.
1121[19:48:25] <Caesar_NayKid> VirtualBox ok?
1122[19:48:27] <TaZeR> thats what ive been trying to assess, if mx linux has actaully done anything special to really improve things besides offering customizations of things already available in debian and some extra applications, but i cant really find anything better
1125[19:49:11] <dpkg> Oracle VM VirtualBox is <virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle, see replaced-url
1126[19:49:14] <TaZeR> a simple UI upgrade pack could be released and installed on a debian system making it effectively the same, an option for more casual users perhaps, but i know the debian devs arnt interested in that sorta thing
1141[19:52:20] <jmcnaught> TaZeR: one difference I would wonder about is how well MX keeps up with security updates, and do they make that information publicly available? Anyways, derivatives are off-topic in #debian, maybe you want to discuss them in #debian-offtopic.
1142[19:53:16] <TaZeR> yes good idea i will research that area as well
1143[19:53:42] <Caesar_NayKid> When Bullseye moves to stable can i just like apt-update everything at the console or will i have to reinstall somehow
1144[19:53:44] <NetTerminalGene> guys, i got libwebkigtk and 4 of them or something as far as i remember two days ago but it is still not on replaced-url
1156[19:55:38] <aminvakil> right now buster is stable
1157[19:55:39] <jhutchins> aminvakil: That's actually not quite true, you want to read the release notes and any errata, and do the uprade manually so that you can catch any glitches.
1158[19:56:13] <aminvakil> jhutchins: Caesar_NayKid was asking if they are going to install bullseye, when bullseye became stable, are they need to do anything or not
1159[19:56:20] <aminvakil> not upgrading from buster to bullseye
1160[19:56:24] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: and this: replaced-url
1164[19:56:59] <Caesar_NayKid> I mean, if i can get Buster working the way i want i may never update
1165[19:57:01] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: debian doesn't distribute anything that is not considered stable. but I'd say gnome3, kde plasma, and xfce4 have the most complete desktop experience without having to do a lot of setup and tinkering, if that's what you mean.
1166[19:57:04] <Caesar_NayKid> For this build
1167[19:57:09] <jhutchins> Caesar_NayKid: We don't see many stability problems with DEs these days.
1168[19:57:36] <NetTerminalGene> Caesar_NayKid: gnome is pretty stable
1178[19:59:52] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotta walk my dog. Might be back in 30 or so.. if you all aren't around thanks for answering so many questions. This has been a great irc chat so far
1179[20:00:00] <ratrace> still waiting for definition of "most stable"
1181[20:00:31] *** Quits: Caesar_NayKid (~igloo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1182[20:00:45] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: we understood what it is but we won't tell you
1183[20:00:48] <ratrace> and by some definitions, gnome is leas stable with every release removing chunks of functionality, extensions breaking or not working properly, etc...
1184[20:00:50] <aminvakil> i would define stable as not changing, not the one that does not break
1185[20:01:04] <aminvakil> ratrace: exactly!
1186[20:01:44] <ratrace> but for the lifetime of a release in debian, it doesn't change. the extensions might be entirely different story.
1203[20:07:45] <jelly> and sometimes an extension is never updated for current gnome. I've switched at least two 2D-grid-workspaces extensions for Gnome (not on Debian tho)
1222[20:21:26] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1223[20:21:37] <hiya> Debian Testing is officially supported here?
1224[20:21:59] <SponiX> hiya: not according to the /topic
1225[20:22:12] <ratrace> !debian-next
1226[20:22:12] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1242[20:30:12] <Caesar_NayKid> Is everyone here running Bullseye?
1243[20:30:26] <dvs> !debian-next
1244[20:30:26] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1245[20:31:06] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotcha so this one is all about stable
1246[20:31:46] <Caesar_NayKid> So Buster can have problems with nvme drives?
1247[20:32:17] <Caesar_NayKid> Is there somewhere that has a giant list of hardware known to work on different versions of Debian?
1248[20:32:46] <ratrace> Caesar_NayKid: not that I know of. the linux source code keeps track of .... badly behaving SSDs tho, in the commends. lemme find that for you
1274[20:38:46] <oxek> usually you first need to install the other desktop before uninstalling the first one
1275[20:39:01] <Caesar_NayKid> Can it cause stability problems to have a bunch of desktops?
1276[20:39:49] <Caesar_NayKid> Probably anything could cause an instability so dumb question i guess
1277[20:40:04] <aminvakil> as i've said i switched from gnome to kde, and i did see some problems which wasn't there when i reinstalled the operating system for another reason
1278[20:40:15] <aminvakil> (i'm using another os though)
1279[20:40:39] <Caesar_NayKid> What's the community preferred way to remote access your Debian install
1280[20:40:54] <aminvakil> ssh ?
1281[20:41:13] <aminvakil> your graphic environment you mean? vnc then
1282[20:41:18] <Caesar_NayKid> I figured that might be it.
1283[20:41:44] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1284[20:42:25] <Caesar_NayKid> Ok thanks. I'll probably be back when i get to installing
1285[20:43:32] <Caesar_NayKid> Anyone have a setup guide that you like to recommend?
1294[20:46:32] <TheSilentLink> Hi I have 3 systems all with unattended-upgrades installed. Seems to be a default package. 1 of them updated and 2 of them didn't anyone know why?
1299[20:48:50] <Caesar_NayKid> I was going to install a separate physical hard drive for my vm.. is there anything special i need to do in Debian before going into virt manager and stuff?
1313[21:06:51] <filePeter> Hi, is there a (gtk-)tool that I can call, that shows me a file picker UI with thumbnails, that returns the selected filenames to the commandline?
1344[21:22:54] <SponiX> Caesar_NayKid: ask it and see
1345[21:22:57] <sney> Caesar_NayKid: there's #kvm, for the technology that virt-manager (among others) uses. but for your question, there is nothing special you should need to do in order to use a separate disk for a vm guest
1346[21:24:23] <oxek> Caesar_NayKid: if it's on linux, then ##linux
1347[21:24:36] <Caesar_NayKid> Well this question is about ip addresses i guess, if my Debian install grabs an IP in the nic with that mac address then i set up a Win10 VM in virt manager how do i avoid a router trying to hand out the same ip address to that PC
1349[21:24:56] <Caesar_NayKid> Or even if i manually configure the ips
1350[21:25:11] <sney> the vm guest will have its own virtual mac address
1351[21:25:19] *** Quits: hispeed (~hispeed@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1352[21:25:20] <Caesar_NayKid> Really
1353[21:25:22] <oxek> yes
1354[21:25:29] <Caesar_NayKid> Interesting
1355[21:25:39] <Caesar_NayKid> That's helpful then
1356[21:27:58] <Caesar_NayKid> i tried to setup Hyper-V on my Win10 Pro laptop so i could try and install debian on a VM the other day but when i shared the network card to the VM it disconnected my laptop from the network. Is that easier to set up for virt manager in Debian?
1357[21:28:35] <Caesar_NayKid> If I can't get the VM to work then this machine will just be a dedicated Debian server
1360[21:29:13] <sney> yes, virtual machine networking is pretty straightforward with virt-manager. it supports a few different options, and should never disconnect the adapter that you're trying to share with the guests.
1361[21:29:37] <sney> again, it will be much more clear once you actually have the computer and can try stuff.
1362[21:29:38] <Caesar_NayKid> cool.
1363[21:29:58] <Caesar_NayKid> Yeah i know.. im just pumped up to try something new
1364[21:30:18] <Caesar_NayKid> Trying to get ahead a little as much as possible
1365[21:30:43] <sney> !handbook
1366[21:30:43] <dpkg> The Debian Administrator's Handbook is at replaced-url
1369[21:30:57] <Caesar_NayKid> So should I install Debian to my primary drive and not even install the alt drive during the install?
1370[21:31:27] <sney> the debian installer is not like windows, it will ignore any connected disks that you don't tell it to use.
1371[21:31:34] <dvs> Caesar_NayKid: it's much easier to install Debian to its own drive
1372[21:32:22] <oxek> on home machines, I always leave just one drive connected during installation, so that I am absolutely certain that I can't overwrite something I don't want to
1373[21:32:22] <Caesar_NayKid> Should i just install everything on one drive including the /home and all that stuff for ease?
1374[21:33:05] <dvs> Caesar_NayKid: it's easier to install everyting onto one DRIVE, how many partitions is another matter.
1375[21:33:23] <Caesar_NayKid> Oh right I'm following you there
1376[21:33:39] <Caesar_NayKid> Partitions is probably a preference yeah
1377[21:33:43] <SponiX> Caesar_NayKid: telling the installer to use the "whole drive" ( making sure to point to the correct one ) and letting it take care of the rest -- is the "easiest" method IMHO
1378[21:34:11] <dvs> oh but the installer uses lvm , doesn't it?
1379[21:34:21] <Caesar_NayKid> Yeah that pointing to the right one i was thinking to leave the second drive out for now
1380[21:34:23] <SponiX> dvs: not unless you tell it to
1381[21:34:40] <Caesar_NayKid> What's lvm
1382[21:34:51] *** Quits: CyberManifest (~CyberMani@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1383[21:34:54] <dvs> !lvm
1384[21:34:54] <dpkg> [lvm] the Linux Logical Volume Manager (replaced-url
1385[21:34:59] <Caesar_NayKid> Gotcha
1386[21:35:36] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1387[21:35:39] <Caesar_NayKid> This system will primarily host a shared folder for about 6 PCs to access
1397[21:40:03] <Caesar_NayKid> I think Linux users want to see Linux become more popular and I would guess Debian users would like to see Debian continue to grow in popularity also
1398[21:40:46] <dvs> Meh
1399[21:40:47] <Caesar_NayKid> It all a big new world to me and tons of distros recommended
1400[21:41:11] <dvs> I think it's more important to have Debian working well than to have it be popular.
1401[21:41:17] <Caesar_NayKid> Like Freenas and CentOS seem like popular recommendations for what im doing
1422[21:50:42] <Caesar_NayKid> I will actually likely run that freefilesync on the Win10 VM with task scheduler every night to backup this Debian shared folder to a Onedrive folder on an external drive
1425[21:51:28] <Caesar_NayKid> Mainly because that's how i do it now but i was interested to see what native backup tools Debian offers that might be superior to all that
1436[21:55:01] <Mister00X> dd also called the Disk Destroyer
1437[21:55:25] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1438[21:55:31] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1439[21:56:34] <Caesar_NayKid> So: currently im thinking: install debian Bullseye on my Samsung Pro nvme. After it's running I'll power down install my second SSD. Install virt manager. Install win10 on the vm
1477[22:05:40] <rudi_s> Ah, yeah, and integrity. That's one thing that annoys me a little. But for long term storage I just use sha512sum and redundant backups and most of my short-term storage is git or git-annex anyway.
1478[22:05:41] <ratrace> the biggest disadvantage, that was mentioned, is don't run it 100% full.
1479[22:05:45] <Caesar_NayKid> Anyone got a good link on btrfs and avoiding "issues"?
1480[22:05:59] <ratrace> Caesar_NayKid: folks in #btrfs will have those
1481[22:06:05] <Caesar_NayKid> Thanks
1482[22:06:11] <rudi_s> Don't use raid
1483[22:06:14] <rudi_s> *btrfs raid
1484[22:06:15] <Caesar_NayKid> I joined
1485[22:06:19] <ratrace> I got this bookmark'd replaced-url
1486[22:06:25] <Caesar_NayKid> No plans to use raidghost
1487[22:06:28] <Caesar_NayKid> Ugh
1488[22:06:32] <ratrace> RAID1 in btrfs is just fine
1489[22:06:38] <rudi_s> Lol
1490[22:06:40] <Caesar_NayKid> Sorry this app wants to tag people.
1491[22:07:00] <rudi_s> The first line "Here are some guidelines for users running btrfs raid5 arrays to survive single-disk failures without losing all the data."
1492[22:07:22] <ratrace> yes, raid5/6 is still a sore spot for btrfs
1493[22:07:33] *** Quits: short-bike (~short-bik@replaced-ip) (Quit: and on that note...)
1494[22:07:34] <rudi_s> How can anybody take a file system seriously after reading that ...
1496[22:07:48] <Caesar_NayKid> No plans for raid on this system
1497[22:08:15] <aminvakil> Caesar_NayKid: use ext4 which is default, you won't see any issue.
1498[22:08:31] <rudi_s> Anyway, mabye I'm biased. I was using btrfs once (for the snapshots) and it took a few days and it froze my system and I had to reboot. Lost a few snasphots, nothing major, but that was it for me. That was maybe 2 years ago.
1499[22:08:36] <ratrace> yes, you won't see any issue. ext4 is oblivious to data corruption.
1500[22:09:12] <rudi_s> At least the disk is losing the data and not the file system ;-)
1520[22:13:31] <Caesar_NayKid> Oh hmm.. now i got more reading to do. I thought KVM was a desktop gui haha
1521[22:13:50] <Caesar_NayKid> #n00bAlert
1522[22:14:13] <Caesar_NayKid> Oops i guess that's an irc chat name with hashtags
1523[22:14:27] <Caesar_NayKid> I haven't used irc since like 1991
1524[22:16:34] <aminvakil> nkuttler: could you please take a look at this link? replaced-url
1525[22:17:08] <MrPickles> help: i have separate partition for /home /var /tmp /boot ... now i am installing actually reinstalling debian form linux mint which partition should i format
1526[22:17:09] <rudi_s> Caesar_NayKid: virt-manager is the client GUI
1528[22:17:27] <ratrace> aminvakil: yes, if metadata blocks get full, the fs goes belly up
1529[22:17:49] <nkuttler> last time i had this happen i decided to reinstall after an hour or so..
1530[22:17:51] <rudi_s> And it has no (hard) dependency on libvirt, only a recommends.
1531[22:18:14] <jhutchins> MrPickles: mint != debian
1532[22:19:31] <MrPickles> jhutchins: i am reintalling debian there was some prob in mint dbus break
1533[22:19:57] <aminvakil> nkuttler: i won't blame the filesystem if the user does not remove its snapshots...
1534[22:19:59] <MrPickles> jhutchins: while autoremove
1535[22:20:16] <aminvakil> but i wouldn't use it if i don't want it to have less headache
1536[22:20:51] <aminvakil> MrPickles: format your /var and /boot and /tmp, you can use your /home from mint to debian, others should be removed prior to new installation
1537[22:21:00] *** Quits: Caesar_NayKid (~igloo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1544[22:24:56] <ratrace> line17: you can use the faster method
1545[22:24:58] <rudi_s> line17: What partitions are you currently using? The regular /dev/sda1 -> /boot, /dev/sda2 -> luks (maybe with /boot/EFI) as well?
1549[22:26:13] <rudi_s> Why should you recreate the luks partition? Just cat/dd everything on the new SSD, increase the LUKS partition size (delete and create with larger size, make sure it has the same start sectors!) and then you're done.
1550[22:26:45] <rudi_s> LUKS automatically adapts its size. You can even do this on a running system (if you have RAID for example and swap the disks with larger ones).
1559[22:30:45] <rudi_s> line17: Yeah. Just cat/dd everything to the new disk, then resize partition sda5 (e.g. with fdisk) by deleting it and recreating it in the same place but with a larger size (make sure the starting sectors match!). Then resize the PV with pvresize and you should be done.
1560[22:31:50] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1562[22:32:56] <rudi_s> You can also do everything after the cat/dd in the new running system if you like.
1563[22:33:02] <line17> rudi_s, to be honest i can't do resize partitions job. and other stuff like deleting, recreating with larger size and make sure the starting sectors, and resize the PV...
1564[22:33:16] <rudi_s> (You might have to force the kernel to reload the partition table though.)
1565[22:33:50] <rudi_s> Why not? It's quite easy and you have a backup (the old ssd) so you cannot screw up too much. To be really safe remove the old disk from your computer so you cannot touch it accidentally.
1566[22:34:21] <aminvakil> line17: why don't you create a new luks partition, create partitions on top of it, make filesystem on it and copy data from your old disk to new one as ratrace suggested?
1567[22:34:33] <rudi_s> It's basically just fdisk /dev/sda then p to print the partitions then d to delete the last one, then c to create it again, then look at the old values to give the proper start sector and then p again to verify everything matches, then w.
1568[22:35:01] <rudi_s> aminvakil: Why should you? It's more work and less to learn ;-)
1569[22:35:41] <aminvakil> rudi_s: it's safer :)
1570[22:36:14] <rudi_s> aminvakil: Well, if you have the old disk ...
1583[22:38:16] <rudi_s> You are only changing the partition table which basically contains pointers into the real disk. When you recreate the partition the pointer must point to the same place because you didn't move your data. You just told the partition that it's now larger.
1584[22:38:18] <line17> rudi_s, when i will use starting sector? i mean in which part
1586[22:39:48] <line17> rudi_s, can you make a paste file for me and other newbies?
1587[22:39:51] <rudi_s> man pvresize, it resizes physical volumes. In your case sda5_crypt is a physical volume used by LVM. LVM is another kind of partition table (among other things). "root" and "swap" (two LV or logical volumes) are partitions in your "debian" VG (or volume group) which uses the sda5_crypt as physical volume.
1588[22:39:54] <line17> i really confused :D
1589[22:39:59] <rudi_s> line17: When you use fdisk.
1591[22:40:46] <line17> this job is going to a more complex for me xD
1592[22:41:08] <rudi_s> Well, I told you the commands above. In theory I could provide the exact commands but that's dangerous because any mistake or misunderstanding of your setup could break it. So I can help with the setup but you'll have to figure the commands.
1593[22:41:39] <rudi_s> You can always just partition the new disk and start from scratch. But that's not really easier because you'll have to setup LUKS, PVs, VGs and LVs anyway.
1594[22:42:06] <rudi_s> I would consider it a chance to learn how LUKS and LVM really works on your system. You're already using them anway.
1595[22:42:14] <MrPickles> it may help replaced-url
1616[23:01:11] <rudi_s> Why would use squashfs for that?
1617[23:01:28] <ratrace> dob1: nothing particularly bad about it
1618[23:02:17] <dob1> ratrace, my concern is about the alternatives, a 7z/xz archive are better?
1619[23:02:35] <ratrace> dob1: better for what purpose precisely?
1620[23:03:01] <dob1> ratrace, I want to archive some data, to save space, I will not modify it in the future
1621[23:03:03] <ratrace> squashfs is interesting if oyu want a mountable, browsable, compessed filesystem. a 7z/xz archive is just a file, you can't mount it as a fs
1622[23:03:08] <ratrace> the use cases are different
1623[23:03:34] <ratrace> dob1: I'd tarball it then.
1624[23:04:23] <dob1> ratrace, but as you said the squashfs permit to mount it and access the data (readonly but that's ok)
1625[23:04:32] <rudi_s> There's always FUSE
1626[23:05:05] <dob1> a tar.xz is better as compression than squashfs ?
1630[23:06:55] <ratrace> dob1: it depends on what kind of data it is and what kind of access you want. if you want compressed mountable _filesystem_ you can carry around in a file, then squashfs is suitable. if you just want to package up a bunch of files, you can tarball them. you can still extract individual files from a tarball.
1631[23:07:38] <ratrace> dob1: a .tar can be compressed with any algo. xz, gzip, zstd, ... I don't know what squashfs uses
1644[23:15:55] <ratrace> tga: I don't iphone. but I'd look into using jmtpfs for MTP access, like I do for android. if I used a desktop like gnome, I'd check if gvfs can mount it JustLikeThat(tm)
1645[23:16:28] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1646[23:17:19] <tga> ratrace: it's more complicated than that, at least on kde it doesn't Just Work, I managed to connect to it with ifuse but not seeing all the files
1664[23:42:22] <aivkiv> Hello, I've just tried network installer for 10.9 ant I've found weird change. After locale change I am limited to that locales timezones. Before I was able to get US as locale and get my local time, now I only see US timezone options. Suggestion is to go back ant pick another locale, but then installers language changes as well. it's ARM64 is it the same in AMD64?
1670[23:48:18] <jhutchins> aivkiv: Linking it is probably simpler than having separate setting tables for each one, and the installer has to make some compromises.
1672[23:50:45] *** Quits: Streusel (~Anonymous@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1673[23:53:14] <maxf> Hi. On my debian server, I just did 'apt update && apt upgrade' and libssl1.1 and openssl got downgraded. Both packages have the version number '1.1.1d-0+deb10u6' now (according to 'aptitude show libssl1.1 openssl|grep Version'). Is everything correct ?
1680[23:57:07] <karlpinc> line17: You can do "pvs" and see how much free space you have in your physical volume, and use that to extend your logical volumes.