People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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19 [00:14:51] <plujon> The bug does is not present in Debian 11 (emacs-27.1); I'll not file a bug.
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21 [00:15:33] <plujon> It's possible the bug is in emacs 26.x; I was unable to build and test that version.
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25 [00:18:22] <DrimysWinteri> hello. I have a problem with debian 10 kde, when I attempt to shutdown or reboot the screen just blurries and nothin happen. Is there a solution?
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96 [01:32:32] <cheapie> Huh, TIL Debian actually ships with the proper kernel modules for getting it up and running on a Vortex86DX3.
97 [01:33:23] <cheapie> Linux itself isn't the happiest about it ("CPU: vendor_id 'Vortex86 SoC' unknown, using generic init. Your system may be unstable.") but it seems to work.
98 [01:33:25] <dvs> 486DX3? X-D
99 [01:33:42] <cheapie> dvs: Hah, no, a lot newer than that. Came out in 2015 or so I think.
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142 [02:41:45] <alex11> what can i do if kill doesn't kill a process?
143 [02:41:58] <alex11> nvm there it goes
144 [02:42:18] * dvs puts away his gun
145 [02:42:44] <Nik05> alex11, depends on the signal you send
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147 [02:43:11] <alex11> yeah i guess
148 [02:43:15] <alex11> i need to man page read
149 [02:43:25] <Namarrgon> many programs catch SIGTERM and use it for cleanup before they quit
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152 [02:44:23] <Nik05> You also have the SIGKILL signal, which kill doesnt send by default
153 [02:44:24] <Dude-Meister> Is Debian using System V init, or SystemD?
154 [02:44:45] <alex11> systemd by default
155 [02:44:50] <cheapie> systemd by default, I think you can theoretically swap it out for sysvinit but a lot of stuff isn't installable if you do that.
156 [02:44:51] <imMute> Dude-Meister: systemd by default, but sysvinit ify ou want.
157 [02:45:21] <alex11> tfw you answer first but the two successive answers are more useful
158 [02:45:56] <Dude-Meister> I asked because i found what i believe to be a very useful 6 hour and 41 minute tutorial on YouTube, and of corse, the learning curve - {ugh}
159 [02:46:09] <cws> Dude-Meister: on systemd?
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161 [02:46:45] <cws> If so, it does not take a 7 hour youtube video to learn systemd.
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165 [02:48:13] <Dude-Meister> Yes. It seems clear (as mud) when he's discussing the two (within the forst 6 minutes of the course) that he's chosen to run SystemD. me, not knowing much, was concerned there may be totally different "calls" (or whatever the proper term is) because he's clearly chosed to rn SystemD, though he never actually says that.
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168 [02:48:44] <Dude-Meister> He's also running CentOS, but it seems that's not going to cause the corse to be problemsatic.
169 [02:48:59] <Dude-Meister> replaced-url
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171 [02:49:09] <cws> I'm going to skip the video, it does not take 7 hours to learn systemd.
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174 [02:49:44] <Dude-Meister> It's not just SystemD. It's a Linux system administration course.
175 [02:50:23] <cws> You keep capitalizing systemd, and its making me twitch. :P
176 [02:51:11] <Dude-Meister> Oh -0 I don't want to do that.
177 [02:52:08] <cws> So what exactly are you trying to learn?
178 [02:52:32] <cws> Just intro to linux sysadmin?
179 [02:52:36] <alex11> i do think systemd could benefit from a beginner level 'here's how to do things quickly' thing but arch/gentoo wikis probably cover that lol
180 [02:52:50] <cws> I should write one.
181 [02:52:53] <Dude-Meister> cws, everything I need to never use Microsoft or Apple products ever again - VEER.
182 [02:52:59] <Dude-Meister> EVER*
183 [02:53:01] <Dude-Meister> :)
184 [02:53:05] <alex11> veer
185 [02:53:13] <alex11> do not veer into the land of microapple
186 [02:53:21] <cws> Dude-Meister: replaced-url
187 [02:53:29] <cws> It's free. Go nuts.
188 [02:53:44] <Dude-Meister> I'll scope it out. Thank you!
189 [02:53:51] <cws> It's from the Linux Foundation.
190 [02:53:51] <alex11> debian wiki probably has a lot of what you need too but i'm too tired/lazy to check atm
191 [02:53:59] <cws> Probably better material than some Youtube rando.
192 [02:54:11] <alex11> or the linux command line by william shotts is another decent book
193 [02:54:30] <Dude-Meister> Click the one I put up and take a look at the 22 chapter topics covered and you may say, "Yeah, that's pretty good," or not . . . but probably.
194 [02:54:59] <Dude-Meister> I've been using computers since 1980, but not as an IT pro or anything liek that.
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196 [02:55:49] <Dude-Meister> Still, I know more than the average home user because - well - DNA decided I'm a nerd-type. {shrug}
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198 [02:56:14] <alex11> like i agree systemd doesn't take 7 hours to learn but it's pretty daunting at first typing man systemd <tab tab> and having 100+ entries show up
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200 [02:56:46] <cws> sure, but that's because you're getting all of the manpages for how to define service units, timer units, path units, etc.
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202 [02:56:52] <alex11> i'm aware
203 [02:57:01] <alex11> i just mean that for a beginner it looks like 'fuck this'
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205 [02:57:32] <Dude-Meister> Like I saiud, this is something grazed across in the first 6 minutes of the first chapter "Linux Client Administration - Linux Installation Overview" covering
206 [02:58:06] <Dude-Meister> Typo-Master stikes again.
207 [02:58:21] <Dude-Meister> Typo-Meister?
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209 [02:59:18] <Dude-Meister> Anyhow - it's real easy to click the link I put up, and look at the chapter listing. It could lead to better responses.
210 [02:59:26] <Dude-Meister> Just sayin
211 [03:00:11] <Dude-Meister> I was actually hoping people that know WAY more than me in the subject MAY find it a useful link for helping others.
212 [03:01:09] <Dude-Meister> I just popped in to make sure I'm not wasting nearly 7 hours learning something that doesn't apply, becuase I really don't know.
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215 [03:02:19] <Dude-Meister> So, the system init v vs initd was something I though it best to ask about.
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219 [03:04:25] <Dude-Meister> Woah. cws, the link you shot me is much appriciated.
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221 [03:05:34] <Dude-Meister> Adding that verified certificate for $169 US is a real bargain too, it seems to me.
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223 [03:05:48] <cws> I wouldn't.
224 [03:06:26] <Dude-Meister> I can understand that stance too, for sure.
225 [03:06:46] <Dude-Meister> It depends on what kind of cliwentel you're likely to serve though.
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229 [03:07:00] <cws> If you're going to spend $169 on a certificate that no one cares about, spend $200 on an actual certification that someone would recognize.
230 [03:07:02] <cws> replaced-url
231 [03:07:33] <Dude-Meister> Farmers that have john Deer or Farmall Tractors Do like to see certifications if they really have NO real interest in coputers, eh?
232 [03:07:51] <Dude-Meister> Ah. IC.
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237 [03:12:23] <Dude-Meister> Okay, well, I've got some great material and really FAST answers on the whole init v vs initd thing. I'm going to plow through this course I found a couple times as the material is well presented, but now i also have some more material to follow up with.
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239 [03:13:35] <Dude-Meister> Thanks all, and especially you cws. Sorry I made you twitch. I'll stop IMMEDIATELY! lol
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241 [03:14:37] <Dude-Meister> initd initd initd. Ahhhhhh. You're right. It was causing me trouble too, and I didn't even know I was creating the problem myself. 'Twas a close call!
242 [03:14:52] <Dude-Meister> L8R
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268 [04:01:18] *** Quits: galex-713 (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
269 [04:01:33] *** Quits: jmatos (~jmatos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitting.)
270 [04:01:59] *** Quits: ax562 (~ax562@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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275 [04:03:18] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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285 [04:09:15] *** Quits: jmatos (~jmatos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitting.)
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295 [04:17:51] *** BrianG61UK__ is now known as BrianG61UK_
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320 [04:49:26] *** Quits: rebtoor (~rebtoor@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
321 [04:49:26] *** rebtoor_ is now known as rebtoor
322 [04:50:11] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
323 [04:52:15] *** Parts: fanderal (~fanderal@replaced-ip ) ("bye")
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350 [05:31:51] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
351 [05:35:15] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
352 [05:40:15] *** Quits: nyov (~nyov@replaced-ip ) (Killed (orwell.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
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356 [05:47:41] *** Quits: shokohsc (~shokohsc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
357 [05:51:09] *** Quits: skyikot (~skyikot@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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359 [05:58:42] *** Quits: hisacro (~OBSD@replaced-ip ) (Quit: \o|)
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361 [06:01:58] *** Quits: TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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363 [06:05:12] *** Quits: secntech (~secntech@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
364 [06:05:33] *** Quits: blkmanta (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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366 [06:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 887
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372 [06:28:23] *** Quits: ximara (runzle@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
373 [06:28:45] *** Quits: Filohuhum_ (~filohuhum@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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375 [06:43:19] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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377 [06:59:00] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip )
378 [06:59:35] *** Quits: adapter (~adapter@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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384 [07:12:45] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
385 [07:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 893
386 [07:18:17] *** Quits: freshtube (freshtube@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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388 [07:21:36] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
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390 [07:28:31] *** Quits: cef (~cef@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
391 [07:28:46] *** Joins: Zajt (54375bed@replaced-ip )
392 [07:29:25] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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397 [07:34:29] *** Quits: Zajt (54375bed@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed)
398 [07:34:45] *** Quits: skyikot (~skyikot@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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402 [07:36:42] *** Quits: adapter (~adapter@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
403 [07:42:11] *** Quits: brutex (~brutex@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
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407 [07:46:12] *** Quits: p0bailey (~p0bailey@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
408 [07:50:37] *** Quits: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
409 [07:53:45] *** Quits: galex-713 (gal@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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412 [07:56:15] *** Joins: cef (~cef@replaced-ip )
413 [07:56:18] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
414 [07:56:41] *** Quits: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
415 [07:58:45] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
416 [08:01:13] *** Joins: alpernebbi (~quassel@replaced-ip )
417 [08:01:24] *** Joins: blkmanta (~quassel@replaced-ip )
418 [08:02:00] *** Quits: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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420 [08:02:21] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip )
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437 [08:34:06] *** Joins: wsky (uid453465@replaced-ip )
438 [08:36:23] *** Quits: TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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444 [08:52:27] *** Quits: tomg (~tomg@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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448 [08:58:15] *** Quits: HarmtH (~harmth@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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452 [09:18:06] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip )
453 [09:20:13] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
454 [09:22:05] *** Joins: marcus-d (~marcus@replaced-ip )
455 [09:22:46] *** Parts: Sideburns (~Sideburns@replaced-ip ) ()
456 [09:24:10] *** Joins: Deknos (~deknos@replaced-ip )
457 [09:25:13] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
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461 [09:29:09] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip )
462 [09:29:41] *** Quits: HarmtH (~harmth@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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468 [09:34:33] *** Joins: galex-713 (gal@replaced-ip )
469 [09:35:41] *** Quits: keiser (~keiser@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
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472 [09:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 904
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475 [09:43:42] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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506 [10:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 911
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545 [11:31:03] <ratrace> 10.9 hitting the mirrors, folks..
546 [11:35:43] <oxek> I'm scared
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550 [11:45:57] <ratrace> run for the hills! but wait! the hills have eyes!
551 [11:48:21] <wsky> stop dropping acid so often
552 [11:50:18] <cws> First thing in the morning, ratrace gets Iron Maiden stuck in my head.
553 [11:57:47] <EdePopede> better than an Iron Axe.
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556 [11:58:56] <aminvakil> i can't find release notes for 10.9
557 [11:59:16] <aminvakil> is there any at all?
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559 [12:00:33] <Flashtek> I have a question that's probably more general Linux centric rather than Debian, but as the system in quesiton runs on Debian I'll ask here and hope not to get slapped for it. I have a server with 2 x 2Tb disks in software RAID1, one is showing signs of gentle failure (from dmesg output). If I were to get one of the disks replaced, would I need do anything else (other than wait) to get the RAID back in play? (wondering about
560 [12:00:33] <Flashtek> copying partition table from sda (good) to new sdb (failing) etc)
561 [12:00:36] <EdePopede> not yet, but the dir is already there
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567 [12:03:58] <cws> Flashtek: To do a controlled replacement, fail-and-remove the disk via mdadm, replace the faulting disk, partition the new disk appropriately, then add the new drive to the mirror.
568 [12:04:01] <cws> Flashtek: replaced-url
569 [12:04:09] <cws> I don't normally link to random sites, but those are the correct steps.
570 [12:04:23] <oxek> what's "gentle failure"?
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573 [12:05:54] <oxek> beware when provisioning a new disk from another one - the reading of the other disk will very likely have at least 1 undetected read error, just due to statistics and disks being so huge nowadays
574 [12:06:11] <oxek> unless you're using a checksumming filesystem
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577 [12:07:17] <cws> Flashtek: Hope you have backups, yeah.
578 [12:08:08] <oxek> always remember, RAID is not backup
579 [12:08:43] <Flashtek> cws: thanks for the pointers, I'll take a read. and yeah, I know it's not backup (but better than nothing)
580 [12:08:50] <ratrace> %s/not backup/not proper backup/
581 [12:09:09] <cws> They're not backups at all. Telling anyone that they are is doing them a disservice.
582 [12:09:24] <cws> If it's the live dataset your system is running on, it's not a backup.
583 [12:09:41] <ratrace> depends on how you define "backup"
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585 [12:10:10] <cws> Can I restore my stuff if someone takes my entire running system and throws it in a volcano?
586 [12:10:12] <Flashtek> indeed it does... I totally take both sides depending on your definition
587 [12:10:21] <ratrace> what's the difference of having 2 disks in mirror versus having 1 disk in teh computer, and one "backup" USB disk on the shelf above it?
588 [12:10:40] <ratrace> the difference is: "few dozen centimeres". both are onsite. both are backups, but inadequate
589 [12:10:42] <cws> Flashtek: RAID is not backup. At all. Period. Ever.
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591 [12:10:48] <ratrace> adequte backup is 3-2-1
592 [12:10:52] <cws> Flashtek: Anyone telling you that it is is lying to you.
593 [12:11:04] <cws> Flashtek: And that's the end of that.
594 [12:11:09] <oxek> +1
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596 [12:11:14] <ratrace> it's not backup for all intents and purposes of "backing up data into a safe location for redundancy and recovery"
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598 [12:11:44] <oxek> it's not even a backup for the purposes of "oops I accidentally deleted a file"
599 [12:11:53] <ratrace> yeah, it's not.
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602 [12:11:58] <cws> Then its not backup.
603 [12:12:16] <oxek> yeah I think all of us agree RAID is not a backup :D
604 [12:12:18] <cws> That's the absolute minimum capability for anything considered a backup. If it can't even do that, then it isn't a backup.
605 [12:12:30] <cws> So don't tell people its "kind of" a backup. It's not a backup.
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607 [12:13:02] <ratrace> cws: okay so by that definition a zfs raid1 with snapshots is backup because it DOES protect against "oops I deleted a file"?
608 [12:13:20] <cws> "if it can't even do that" doesn't mean that "if it can do this one thing, its a backup"
609 [12:13:52] <oxek> necessary vs sufficient
610 [12:13:54] <ratrace> you just said "absolute minimum capability for anything considered a backup". zfs raid w/ snapshots is that. redundancy, data csum for integrity, and archival with snapshots.
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612 [12:14:07] <ratrace> it is INSUFFICIENT backup because there's no offsite copy.
613 [12:14:10] <cws> What I ALSO said:
614 [12:14:12] <cws> 07:10 <cws> Can I restore my stuff if someone takes my entire running system and throws it in a volcano?
615 [12:14:22] <cws> Say it with me, ratrace: "RAID IS NOT A BACKUP."
616 [12:14:31] <cws> Stop telling people that it is.
617 [12:14:39] <ratrace> alright it's not. but it's better than 1 disk. esp with data csuming and snaps :)
618 [12:14:43] <cws> Not kind of, not a little, not "weeeeeell..."
619 [12:15:18] <cws> Oh, certainly.
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621 [12:15:59] <ratrace> and to some even 3-2-1 is not backup "enough", so it's nuances and level of shi...z you want to protect against. but okay, for ordinary meanings of backup it is not.
622 [12:16:06] <oxek> yet again, I don't see 10.9 at replaced-url
623 [12:17:24] <ratrace> oxek: replaced-url
624 [12:18:17] <Flashtek> sorry for being the can openner... :-( I agree that RAID isn't a backup, but it's handy for situations like one disk failing in a server a few thousand miles away and wanting to keep things going 'till you can get the situation resolved. I will ensure I has tested backups before I do things.
625 [12:18:39] <oxek> ratrace: I see it is in a different list than I thought replaced-url
626 [12:18:42] <oxek> debian-stable-announce
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628 [12:18:51] <ratrace> mirrors near me already got it, upgrading my workstation r/n
629 [12:19:08] <oxek> I see you like to live dangerously
630 [12:19:33] <ratrace> my workstation is the primary canary for updates :) my BACKUP RAID1 BTRFS W/ SNAPS (mwahahahahah) protects against Dumb.
631 [12:19:44] <oxek> lol
632 [12:20:05] <ratrace> so when that turns out okay, I upgarde the backup servers (backup in 3-2-1 context), and then production.
633 [12:20:36] <ratrace> see I like nuances and contexts, not blanket statements. so I never disagreed with cws , I just prefer full context definitions.
634 [12:21:14] <ratrace> I understand normies don't see that and "backup" means only one thing: offsite copies you can restore from when someone chucks your whole house into a volcano.
635 [12:21:55] <ratrace> (which means the "backup USB disk you keep on the shelf" is not backup because the whole house got volcano'd)
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637 [12:22:02] <cws> And with the word "normie," you've chucked your whole credibility into that same volcano.
638 [12:22:13] <ratrace> obvs I'm an abnormie :)
639 [12:22:35] <ratrace> I meant normal folks who aren't into nuances and contexts.
640 [12:23:05] <raidghost> To detect multicast ip-adresses and the channel name, any good tool to put on eth0 for listening? So i dont have to guess every rtp://ip:5500 adress
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642 [12:23:53] <oxek> what's wrong with 'normie'?
643 [12:25:11] <cws> oxek: In current usage, its a pejorative term for someone considered "mainstream."
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645 [12:25:49] <oxek> huh, that's news to me
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647 [12:26:09] <oxek> I always thought it means "a regular/typical user"
648 [12:26:27] <ratrace> it's news to me too
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650 [12:26:51] <ratrace> then again witht he whole cancel culture and censors tying to rewrite how we use language in service of social justice ..... I don't care :)
651 [12:26:59] <abrotman> moving on ...
652 [12:27:04] <ratrace> moving on.
653 [12:27:51] <abrotman> And various versions of RAID are better at being considered a backup, but generally speaking, RAID is not a backup system
654 [12:28:58] <ratrace> I can agree with that. But all I meant initially was that a ZFS RAID1 with snapshots is euqal level of backup, even better due to data csum, than 1 disk in the computer, and a copy on the shelf above it. the difference is literally in centimeters.
655 [12:29:35] <ratrace> so if someone calls an USB disk ext4 on the shelf a "backup" of their single disk ext4 in teh computer 20 centimeters below.... if that's backup, so is zfs raid1 w/ snaps.
656 [12:30:05] <abrotman> RAID1 is closer to a "backup" .. 0+1 or 1+0 .. sure, also okay .. but 0/2/3/4/5 not so much
657 [12:30:28] <ratrace> 5 and 1 have same redundancy level tho
658 [12:30:48] <ratrace> ie one disk can die (assuming 2-way raid1, yes, there could be 3-way and then the math is off)
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660 [12:31:41] <abrotman> 5 doesn't have redundancy, it has striping and parity
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662 [12:31:53] <rudi_s> RAID: You delete a file, it's gone. I wouldn't consider that backup.
663 [12:31:56] <ratrace> the parity is redundancy. you can recreate data if 1 disk fails
664 [12:31:56] <abrotman> dpkg: baarf
665 [12:31:57] <dpkg> abrotman: I give up, what is it?
666 [12:32:01] <abrotman> grrr
667 [12:33:01] <abrotman> That's not "redundancy" ..
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670 [12:34:31] <abrotman> dpkg: baarf is <reply>Battle Against Any RAID Four/Five/Free - replaced-url
671 [12:34:32] <dpkg> okay, abrotman
672 [12:34:43] <rudi_s> abrotman: RAID 1 has?
673 [12:34:48] <abrotman> (an older article that discusses some of the pitfalls
674 [12:34:49] <Flashtek> baarfffffffff
675 [12:34:51] <Flashtek> lol
676 [12:35:32] <abrotman> rudi_s: has what?
677 [12:35:43] <rudi_s> abrotman: "redundancy"
678 [12:36:00] <rudi_s> I'm just confused by "RAID1 is closer to a "backup" .. 0+1 or 1+0 .. sure, also okay .. but 0/2/3/4/5 not so much"
679 [12:36:43] <abrotman> rudi_s: RAID1 is a mirror system, there should be an exact copy on both drives/partitions
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681 [12:36:59] <abrotman> s/both/all disks included in the raid set/
682 [12:37:30] <abrotman> You can have RAID1 with 17 drives/partitions/etc
683 [12:37:40] <rudi_s> abrotman: Sure. But so does RAID5/6/Z, not in an exact copy but in a way to reconstruct the data if a disk fails.
684 [12:38:33] <rudi_s> You said 5 doesn't have redundancy but listed RAID 1 as a backup so I assumed you'd give RAID 1 the property of "redundancy" and that got me confused.
685 [12:38:34] <abrotman> rudi_s: they don't contain an exact copy, they're striped and parity. You can reconstruct missing elements, but they're not redundant (in the dictionary sense)
686 [12:38:34] <Flashtek> fault tollerance, not backup
687 [12:38:54] <abrotman> if you have five disks in a RAID1, you can pull one out, and have all the data
688 [12:39:15] <rudi_s> abrotman: Ah, that's the definition of redundancy you're using. Right, that makes sense.
689 [12:40:11] <Flashtek> abrotman: same could be said about RAID5 (and others, but not 0) over 5 disks.
690 [12:40:32] <abrotman> Flashtek: eh? If you pull one disk from a RAID5 set, that single disk gets you nothing but broken bits
691 [12:40:52] <abrotman> the remaining disk set could rebuild the missing data from that single drive, but you can't use that single drive to get anything
692 [12:40:57] <Flashtek> sorry, I thought you meant pull one disk out and the other 4 keep going...
693 [12:41:01] <Flashtek> not had enough tea yet
694 [12:41:13] <wsky> value your tea
695 [12:41:19] <abrotman> (well, that depends on your definition of "anything", I'm sure the FBI would be happy to only have half your data if you're being investigated"
696 [12:41:21] <oxek> raid is not backup, raid is high-availability
697 [12:42:52] <abrotman> Don't get me wrong, various levels have their advantages, but that doesn't make them a "backup"
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705 [12:53:22] <oxek> where would I see reports of 10.9 breaking something?
706 [12:54:44] <abrotman> Reuters
707 [12:56:06] <ratrace> CNN might be quoting the Debian BTS instead of Reuters, tho
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709 [12:57:51] <abrotman> oxek: you mean the entire point release, or an individual package?
710 [12:58:21] <oxek> abrotman: probably everything that has changed in 10.9
711 [12:58:51] <abrotman> It might end up back in the -devel list or similar, but probably more likely just to end up in the BTS
712 [12:59:16] <oxek> since I see changes to intel-microcode, libreoffice, linux kernel, python, systemd, xterm, ... and all of those are fairly important to me
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715 [13:00:07] <abrotman> does anyone really use Python anymore?
716 [13:00:16] * ratrace coughs politely while staring at abrotman
717 [13:00:34] <abrotman> Oh, right .. I do :)
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728 [13:15:47] <cws> All the time.
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732 [13:18:04] <digdilem> wait, python is real?
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738 [13:22:02] <oxek> digdilem: watch your step, or it might bite you
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740 [13:24:55] <abrotman> it's just a wrapper for Perl :)
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748 [13:33:23] <oxek> blasphemy
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794 [14:09:11] <nifker> is firefox ESR 78.8 higher than 84.0-1 or lower?
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796 [14:10:24] <ratrace> nifker: it has no new features since 78.0 and most if not all bug/security fixes that are applicable to teh code shared between the two, if that's what you're asking because otherwise 78 < 84.
797 [14:11:07] <nifker> can I get some higher firefox version on debian without using sid?
798 [14:11:14] <ratrace> you can use snaps
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800 [14:11:43] <nifker> no appimage?
801 [14:12:02] <ratrace> I don't know. I also don't know if there's flatpak. and you can always just unpack the upstream tarball .. but I wouldn't.
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803 [14:12:28] <nifker> I dont want to install it system-wide anyway
804 [14:12:44] <ratrace> you should't install it in your ~/ either
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810 [14:20:08] <oxek> nifker: or flatpak
811 [14:20:44] <oxek> more importantly, why would you want a higher firefox version?
812 [14:21:02] <oxek> firefox hasn't brought any new features in a few years
813 [14:21:11] <oxek> it's just moving buttons around, that's all
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816 [14:21:45] <oxek> (and still managing to consume $100M/year somehow)
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820 [14:22:39] <abrotman> not true at all
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822 [14:24:40] <abrotman> If you think FF hasn't introduced new features, you're not paying attention
823 [14:26:01] <oxek> I know every time a new FF is released, people are scrambling to find out how to disable whatever new feature it introduces
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825 [14:26:25] <oxek> and if one runs FF with disabled javascript, then yeah FF has not introduced anything new in over a decade
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829 [14:28:46] <abff> ah yes "features", forced and user hostile
830 [14:29:26] <oxek> has anyone ever actually used pocket?
831 [14:30:40] <ratrace> yes
832 [14:31:20] <ratrace> oxek: FF has introduced a lot of privacy things, new renderer, security features, sandboxing, a LOT of things that have nothing to do with javascript, "in over a decade"
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834 [14:31:50] <ratrace> recent versions include some new mitigations for supercookies if I'm not mistaken. plenty of nice things to look forward in next ESR
835 [14:32:45] <ratrace> and nobody can use modern internet with disabled Javascript. yes there's noscript blockers and yes people whitelist sites they "trust" otherwise they likey couldn't use them, .. unless you're talking about pure text/html sites from early 2000s or older
836 [14:33:01] <ratrace> any modern "responsive" website will fail to render without js.
837 [14:33:33] <oxek> mozilla has also put a lot of money towards replaced-url
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840 [14:33:47] <ratrace> and if you really only browser pure text/html from past century, you're the 0.0000001% use case and nobody cares :)
841 [14:34:02] <oxek> explains how they manage to spend hundreds of millions of USD every year, without adding anything meaningful to the browser
842 [14:34:33] <ratrace> that's different. corruption stinks. misallocated resources stink. but new versions of FF do have new, useful (And less useful) features
843 [14:34:37] <oxek> if I had that sort of money, I'd have the best web browser in existence within 4-5 years
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846 [14:34:52] <abrotman> oxek: they are adding things .. but not always related to the interface
847 [14:34:57] <ratrace> oxek: no you wouldn't :) you'd just succumb to getting even more money, like google :)
848 [14:35:01] <oxek> hire 100 devs at $1M/year
849 [14:35:06] <abrotman> For example, FF was the first to adopt DOH
850 [14:35:44] <oxek> abrotman: and yet I've had superior technolgy (dnscrypt) for many years before :)
851 [14:36:22] <abrotman> that's subjective and not widely deployed
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853 [14:36:41] <oxek> linux on the desktop is not widely deployed either
854 [14:36:45] <oxek> yet here we are
855 [14:36:57] <abrotman> here .. you are ..
856 [14:37:15] <abrotman> where's your family?
857 [14:38:27] *** Quits: odnes_ (~odnes@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
858 [14:38:45] <oxek> I don't know, I don't track them and use telemetry to find out where they are at all times and what they like doing :p
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860 [14:40:10] <oxek> ok, I admit I exagerrate a little, and FF has added some features, but nowhere near what one would expect at 100s of millions of dollars every year
861 [14:41:26] <ThothK> @oxek what are two examples of new features you think they should have added in the last two years?
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864 [14:44:45] <oxek> I heavily modify FF user interface and use a lot of addons, so there isn't really anything I'm missing in firefox.
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866 [14:45:20] <oxek> so I'd be happy if mozilla just left FF alone
867 [14:45:39] <oxek> focus on speed, memory consumptions, and not annoying addon devs by throwing sticks under their feet
868 [14:45:52] <oxek> and not make frivolous user interface changes, like removing compact mode
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877 [14:51:37] <oxek> replaced-url
878 [14:51:49] <oxek> total revenue in 2019 was $828M
879 [14:52:15] <oxek> there's a lot more that could be done with that sort of money
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881 [14:54:08] <abrotman> How much does Google spend on Chrome each year?
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885 [14:56:03] <oxek> isn't that some sort of logical fallacy?
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887 [14:56:31] <abrotman> No, I'm asking if anyone knows what it costs to maintain browsers, to add features, maintain staff, etc
888 [14:56:49] <abrotman> It's entirely possible they're barely making ends meet at 900M
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890 [14:57:19] <alex11> after today's update to 10.9... is it normal to have kernel 4.19.0-16 and 4.19.0-14 but not -15?
891 [14:57:19] <oxek> something would be very wrong if one could barely make ends meet at 900M
892 [14:57:29] <oxek> alex11: -15 was not released
893 [14:57:32] <alex11> k
894 [14:57:35] <abrotman> But again, FF seems to have been placing a lot of focus on privacy/security
895 [14:57:40] <oxek> alex11: you can see it in the changelog for the kernel package
896 [14:58:27] <oxek> hmm, or perhaps the changelog does not list if a version was actaully released and not just tagged
897 [14:59:51] <alex11> i could've checked the tracker
898 [14:59:54] <alex11> oh well
899 [14:59:56] <oxek> abrotman: at $1M/year sponsorship, I could get you 100 PhD students studying privacy/security in a browser
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901 [15:01:01] <abrotman> oxek: you're going to pay them each 10,000 ?
902 [15:01:21] <oxek> abrotman: PhDs are cheap if you source it from 3rd world countries, and the quality is comparable
903 [15:01:53] <abrotman> I'm sure you've evaluated all of them, and the good ones work cheap .. cool
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906 [15:04:28] <ratrace> oxek: "PhDs are cheap if you source it from 3rd world countries...." and there you go, you've just nuked any argument you had against FF financial management :)
907 [15:04:59] <ratrace> capitalism at work. frig local workers, let's outsource fo cheap 3rd world countries, those students will be happy to have food and a roof over their head.
908 [15:05:25] <oxek> as sad as it is, yeah pretty much
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911 [15:06:07] <abrotman> It should perhaps be noted the Mozilla HQ is along the Embarcadero in SF
912 [15:06:22] <oxek> 100PhDs in greece/india/vietnam could do just as much as 100PhDs in sillicon valley
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914 [15:06:53] <oxek> while costing much less
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919 [15:08:41] <jiggawattz> abrotman: I don't think their headquarters is actually there
920 [15:08:48] <jiggawattz> that's just like a legal address
921 [15:09:15] <oxek> and it would be a life-changing experience for those PhDs in 3rd world countries, whereas the USA-ian PhDs could still easily find a job at Apple/MS/Google/Facebook/Amazon/Tesla
922 [15:09:21] <abrotman> Oh, you're right, apparemtny in Mtn View
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924 [15:09:35] <abrotman> oxek: You want to exploit people ? :)
925 [15:09:42] <jiggawattz> oxek: 3rd world PhDs don't necessarily work for so little anymore
926 [15:09:59] <jiggawattz> In Belarus, $3000/month is attainable for any IT guy
927 [15:10:13] <oxek> I should move to Belarus
928 [15:10:15] <jiggawattz> that's still much less than U.S.A., but it's not $10.000/year
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930 [15:10:27] <jiggawattz> oxek: from what country are you?
931 [15:10:34] <jiggawattz> Belarus really sucks
932 [15:10:46] <jiggawattz> Lots of protectionism for local companies which produce crap
933 [15:10:59] <jiggawattz> so you pay more for lower quality shit
934 [15:11:05] <oxek> I'd happily produce crap at $3k/month
935 [15:11:14] <jiggawattz> no, you don't understand
936 [15:11:22] <jiggawattz> you need to produce quality to get $3000/month
937 [15:11:27] <jiggawattz> but then you are forced to buy crap
938 [15:11:37] <jiggawattz> unless you travel to Lithuania every weekend to do your shopping
939 [15:11:46] <jiggawattz> but then customs is a hassle, etc
940 [15:12:01] <oxek> belarus isn't in EU, is it?
941 [15:12:08] <jiggawattz> EAEU, my niggah
942 [15:12:16] <abrotman> ahem ...
943 [15:12:20] <jiggawattz> a.k.a. RUSSIA-LAND
944 [15:12:25] <oxek> EAEU?
945 [15:12:30] <jiggawattz> Eurasian Economic Union
946 [15:12:47] <jiggawattz> oh sorry abrotman "niggah" is a term of endearment here
947 [15:12:59] <abrotman> Last warning
948 [15:13:04] <oxek> I'm sure I could still order stuff from outside of Belarus
949 [15:13:10] <jiggawattz> abrotman: I don't really appreciate your U.S.-centric worldview
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953 [15:13:25] <abrotman> jiggawattz: it's not appropriate anywhere. Thanks
954 [15:13:39] <oxek> but I digress, sorry for making this offtopic "rant"
955 [15:14:03] <oxek> how many of you have updated to 10.9, rebooted, and everything running fine?
956 [15:17:10] <oxek> I downloaded the updates, and have read through the changelogs thanks to apt-listchanges
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959 [15:17:36] <abrotman> oxek: is the system remote?
960 [15:17:46] <oxek> abrotman: one of them is, one is not
961 [15:17:53] <abrotman> seems like you test on the local one? :)
962 [15:17:58] <oxek> yeah
963 [15:18:15] <abrotman> oxek: FWIW, in 99.99999% of the cases, you'll be fine (in my experience)
964 [15:18:20] <oxek> I could probably get back from some sort of catastrophic failure
965 [15:18:31] <oxek> but would prefer to know other people's experiences first, so that I don't have to
966 [15:18:49] <oxek> I'm very conservative in terms of package updates
967 [15:18:56] <oxek> debian is a good fit for me
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969 [15:19:42] <oxek> (and I'm happy that firefox-esr exists)
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972 [15:21:05] <oxek> something like "Beware, the kernel was packaged incorrectly and the ext4 filesystem now causes silent file corruption"
973 [15:21:34] <oxek> I don't know how realistic that is though
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984 [15:29:06] <frikinz> Didn't know there was an update today. Upgraded and rebooted just fine (laptop with desktop/kde and server)
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1004 [16:01:05] <oxek> frikinz: thanks for the report
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1023 [16:37:47] <cws> Well that's a hostname.
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1025 [16:39:08] <oxek> indeed
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1081 [18:21:21] <jiggawattz> cws: constipated.cricket is available too
1082 [18:21:40] <jiggawattz> something like $11 registration than $2.73/year renewals after that
1083 [18:21:47] <jiggawattz> s/than/then
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1124 [18:58:07] <Throwawayname> Is there an easy way to force dpkg/apt to think I have a package installed?
1125 [18:58:22] <sney> !equivs
1126 [18:58:22] <dpkg> equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
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1129 [18:59:26] <Throwawayname> sney, Thank you
1130 [18:59:34] <sney> np
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1149 [19:14:04] <isapgswell> how to avoid linux from controlling fans
1150 [19:14:05] <isapgswell> ?
1151 [19:14:15] <isapgswell> acpi fan is builtin
1152 [19:15:00] <wsky> disable all os-wise fan controll
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1154 [19:17:21] <isapgswell> wsky how to do that?
1155 [19:17:46] <wsky> find out what part of your os controlls the fan and make it disabled
1156 [19:18:03] <isapgswell> wsky what about linux fan?
1157 [19:18:22] <wsky> what is your device?
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1159 [19:18:32] <isapgswell> wsky how to disable acpi fan?
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1161 [19:18:43] <isapgswell> wsky dell G7
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1163 [19:19:07] <wsky> it probaly provides a daemon you can disable with systemctl
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1165 [19:19:46] <wsky> i have no details on it, my x250 deals with it on firmware level since the very begining of it
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1168 [19:21:59] <isapgswell> wsky my G7 control the fans on bios, so i would like to disable linux take care on it
1169 [19:22:12] <wsky> i understand
1170 [19:22:23] <wsky> and i already told you everything you need to know
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1172 [19:22:41] <isapgswell> wsky thank you
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1259 [20:49:10] <jak2000> hi all
1260 [20:49:19] <oxek> have any problems been reported yet as a result of 10.9 update?
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1262 [20:50:03] <jak2000> where can download iso with lastest version of debian? Full
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1266 [20:50:57] <sney> jak2000: cdimage.debian.org
1267 [20:51:07] <sney> there's also a netinstaller on the debian.org main page.
1268 [20:51:44] <jak2000> yes
1269 [20:51:55] <jak2000> downloaded netinstall but i think is corruped
1270 [20:52:30] <jak2000> this: replaced-url
1271 [20:52:46] <jak2000> its the correct?
1272 [20:52:49] <jak2000> debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
1273 [20:53:02] <sney> that will install debian, yes
1274 [20:53:16] <sney> there are a lot of options, it helps to read the page to find out what you want.
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1276 [20:53:49] <sney> there are also instructions on that page to verify your download with the checksum files
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1278 [20:54:49] <EdePopede> looks like the ISOs aren't available yet, how long does it take usually?
1279 [20:55:29] <sney> it depends, maybe within a few hours, maybe on Monday
1280 [20:55:34] <jak2000> why cant download:
1281 [20:55:34] <jak2000> replaced-url
1282 [20:56:15] <sney> jak2000: your url is mangled, remove the '#:~:text' string
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1284 [20:57:41] <jak2000> similar: replaced-url
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1287 [20:58:27] <sney> you need to LOOK WITH YOUR EYES at what you are typing. the url is wrong. so it's downloading html instead of the iso.
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1289 [20:59:05] <jak2000> removing /iso-cd/#:~=debian-10 #:~=
1290 [20:59:34] <jak2000> :)
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1294 [21:05:20] <oxek> jak2000: also consider if using the netinstall would be better
1295 [21:05:36] <oxek> it's a smaller .iso
1296 [21:06:00] <oxek> and maybe consider using bittorrent for the download
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1298 [21:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 945
1299 [21:08:33] <jak2000> ok, thanks
1300 [21:08:46] <jak2000> anyone here use proxmox?
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1308 [21:14:53] <aminvakil> jak2000: yes, and i'd be glad to answer you if i can in ##proxmox
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1325 [21:33:42] <jak2000> sorry for paste this image, i need help and need install openssh-server
1326 [21:33:43] <jak2000> replaced-url
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1328 [21:33:47] <jak2000> how to fix?
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1330 [21:35:37] <Mister00X> Is there a way to check if a package is backportable
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1332 [21:35:54] <oxek> ,checkbackport openssh
1333 [21:35:55] <judd> Backporting package openssh in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 9), dh-runit (>= 2.8.8).
1334 [21:36:00] <oxek> Mister00X: that's how
1335 [21:36:11] <Mister00X> oxek: thanks
1336 [21:36:20] <oxek> ignore the part about debhelper-compat, that's an error
1337 [21:36:25] <jmcnaught> jak2000: fix (or pastebin) your /etc/apt/sources.list
1338 [21:36:27] <Mister00X> ,checkbackport podman
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1340 [21:36:49] <jak2000> ahhahaha
1341 [21:36:54] <sney> you can also /msg the bot directly, if you're just looking it up for your own purposes
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1343 [21:37:01] <jak2000> cant acces via conosole / putty
1344 [21:37:06] <jak2000> need paste a imge
1345 [21:37:09] <jak2000> *image
1346 [21:37:10] <judd> Backporting package podman in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12), conmon, golang-dbus-dev (>= 5.0.2~), golang-github-appc-cni-dev (>= 0.8), golang-github-buger-goterm-dev, golang-github-checkpoint-restore-go-criu-dev, golang-github-containernetworking-plugins-dev (>= 0.8.7), golang-github-containers-buildah-dev (>= 1.19.6), golang-github-
1347 [21:37:11] <judd> containers-common-dev (>= 0.33.4), golang-github-containers-image-dev (>= 5.10.2), golang-github-containers-ocicrypt-dev, golang-github-containers-psgo-dev, golang-github-containers-storage-dev (>= 1.24.6), golang-github-coreos-bbolt-dev (>= 1.3.3~), golang-github-coreos-go-iptables-dev (>= 0.4.2~), golang-github-coreos-go-systemd-dev (>= 20~), golang-github-cyphar-filepath-securejoin-dev (>= (3 more messages)
1348 [21:37:30] <Anarchy7> hey all I upgrade from debian8 to debian10 now rtorrent isnt working : rtorrent
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1350 [21:37:30] <Anarchy7> rtorrent: error while loading shared libraries: libcppunit-1.13.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory. I tried sudo apt --reinstall install rtorrent , but didnt help
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1354 [21:37:59] <oxek> Anarchy7: did you update in one step, or go debian8->debian9->debian10?
1355 [21:38:01] <EdePopede> 8→9→10, that's how you go
1356 [21:38:05] <towo`> Anarchy7, if you really have upgraded from 8 to 10, you lost
1357 [21:38:06] <oxek> and did you read the release notes?
1358 [21:38:29] <Anarchy7> First 9 and then 10, I wanted to save a bit reading for you
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1362 [21:39:18] <jak2000> jmcgnh i installed lastest version of debian: cat /etc/issue Debian 10
1363 [21:39:25] <jak2000> replaced-url
1364 [21:39:35] <jak2000> anyone can sed me the sources list for Debian 10?
1365 [21:39:46] <sney> !buster sources.list
1366 [21:39:47] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
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1369 [21:39:57] <sney> you are missing the first one. probably because you had no network during install.
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1371 [21:41:06] <jak2000> ok
1372 [21:42:04] <jak2000> working :0
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1376 [21:46:58] <Anarchy7> I think I have upgraded libcppunit-1.13.so to 1.14 , but rtorrent wants 1.13.. I went to configuration file but didnt see anywhere a path or name for libcppunit-1.13. Is there anything you can recommend?
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1379 [21:51:44] <oxek> !frankendebian
1380 [21:51:44] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
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1385 [21:53:17] <isapgswell> why is gdm-x-session trying to allocate framebuffer like this
1386 [21:54:04] <isapgswell> gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0): Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
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1388 [21:54:28] <isapgswell> my external monitor is connected to nvidia
1389 [21:54:38] <isapgswell> not intel
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1391 [21:55:22] <Pepper> hallo can i have help
1392 [21:55:29] <oxek> !ask
1393 [21:55:29] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
1394 [21:55:59] <Pepper> oxek, /dev/sda2 28705700 21134388 6090096 78% /
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1396 [21:56:16] <Pepper> how can , i do some thing
1397 [21:56:21] <Pepper> soon it will full >
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1401 [21:58:42] <aminvakil> let me bring my magic wand and expand your filesystem size
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1404 [22:01:16] <Anarchy7> oxek I dont have random packages I used the sources.list which dpkg recommends.
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1408 [22:02:52] <oxek> Anarchy7: how did you upgrade libcppunit then?
1409 [22:03:17] <oxek> rtorrent in debian depends on the exact versions of libraries built in debian
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1412 [22:03:36] <Anarchy7> I didnt upgrade it by hand I alsways used apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade
1413 [22:04:44] <oxek> then everything should work; since it doesn't, something is weird
1414 [22:05:34] <oxek> `apt-get -o DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" --reinstall install rtorrent`
1415 [22:05:42] <oxek> beware, it will reset the system config files for rtorrent
1416 [22:06:35] <oxek> or just purge the package, do autopurge, and reinstall the package
1417 [22:09:16] <jmcnaught> judd: depends rtorrent
1418 [22:09:17] <judd> Package rtorrent in buster/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcppunit-1.14-0, libcurl4 (>= 7.16.3), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.0), libncursesw6 (>= 6), libstdc++6 (>= 5.2), libtinfo6 (>= 6), libtorrent20, libxmlrpc-core-c3.
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1423 [22:11:33] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: rtorrent in buster depends on libcppunit-1.14-0 not 1.13, maybe you can make a pastebin of the error you are getting, and "apt policy rtorrent"?
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1429 [22:15:43] <Anarchy7> replaced-url
1430 [22:17:07] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: so you have rtorrent installed from the Debian package, and also rtorrent in /usr/local which you may have installed from source
1431 [22:17:33] <jmcnaught> The one in /usr/local is probably older than the one from buster if it's asking for an older version of that library
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1435 [22:21:30] <Anarchy7> I installed rtorrent in 2016 and then last year. definetly one installation is from 2016. but my last installation from 2020 was the working version
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1438 [22:23:42] <Anarchy7> can I delete everything related to rtorrent and then reinstall it?
1439 [22:24:47] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: just get rid of the one in /usr/local and use the rtorrent Debian package, you should not need to reinstall that.
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1442 [22:28:19] <Anarchy7> I will try
1443 [22:28:29] <isapgswell> is it possible to use ajax concept when using 2d/3d accel?
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1445 [22:32:53] <Pepper> hallo, again how can i make passwd -u user , whith some message ?
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1450 [22:36:56] <Pepper> when user will try to login
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1465 [22:50:39] <velix> Interesting. Anyone with an idea, why there's no mssql-server on Debian in the microsoft repository? Licensing issues? replaced-url
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1468 [22:54:36] <velix> Oh. Seems like latest release is ubuntu/18.04/
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1474 [23:00:41] <velix> It still works on latest Debian, nice.
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1476 [23:00:58] <velix> Wow. Installation time on Windows: about 10 minutes. Installation times on Debian: 1-2 minutes :D
1477 [23:01:16] <velix> Funny, Microsoft did better on Linux than on Windows ;)
1478 [23:01:22] <rk4> i have lots of ideas but they're all antagonistic to someone wanting to run mssql on debain
1479 [23:01:23] <remline> velix: Nice! Windows installers seem pretty shaky.
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1481 [23:01:47] <velix> rk4: shall I explain it?
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1488 [23:03:26] <velix> We use properitary software to scan and semi-automatically read questionnaires. The software installs SQL Server Express locally. So a total horror to backup the whole thing. I now have the SQL server running on a local virtual server that has a failover and is snapshotted several times a day. Furthermore there is a backup to tape 2x a day.
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1491 [23:04:02] <rk4> what sort of tape library?
1492 [23:04:06] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~dionysus6@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1493 [23:04:18] <velix> rk4: Dunno... It's part of a HPE cluster.
1494 [23:04:30] <velix> High end stuff, the whole machine was ~ 20k
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1496 [23:04:43] <isapgswell> gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0): Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
1497 [23:05:12] <isapgswell> why this allocation if my external monitor is connected into nvidia
1498 [23:05:14] <isapgswell> ?
1499 [23:05:39] <isapgswell> should be: gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0): Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
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1501 [23:05:51] <isapgswell> and gdm-x-session[992]: (II) NVIDIA(G0): Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
1502 [23:05:59] <isapgswell> sorry
1503 [23:06:04] <isapgswell> both 1920x1080
1504 [23:06:39] <isapgswell> gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0): Allocate new frame buffer 1920x1080 stride AND gdm-x-session[992]: (II) NVIDIA(G0): Allocate new frame buffer 1920x1080 stride
1505 [23:07:52] <Pepper> when user will try to login
1506 [23:08:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 939
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1508 [23:08:08] <Pepper> hallo, again how can i make passwd -u user , whith some message ?
1509 [23:08:46] <isapgswell> pepper create a script
1510 [23:09:39] <Pepper> maby there i can download it ?
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1512 [23:10:26] <isapgswell> pepper dont know
1513 [23:10:59] <isapgswell> pepper you can download linucommand book and see creating bash script
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1515 [23:11:18] <Pepper> isapgswell, can i ask question about ,setquota
1516 [23:11:29] <isapgswell> pepper replaced-url
1517 [23:12:05] <Pepper> i add user, setquota user setquota -u rozha 500M 500M 0 0 /
1518 [23:12:32] <Pepper> if i try download and save more than 500 mb it save
1519 [23:12:36] <Pepper> and i can download
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1522 [23:13:29] <isapgswell> pepper for that user no
1523 [23:13:32] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip )
1524 [23:14:31] <Pepper> isapgswell, i add test user , rozha, make setquota user setquota -u rozha 500M 500M 0 0 /
1525 [23:14:41] <Pepper> try to download like film
1526 [23:14:42] *** Quits: jxel (Thunderbir@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1527 [23:14:46] <Pepper> it download and save
1528 [23:15:05] <isapgswell> pepper so your quota is not effective
1529 [23:15:19] <Pepper> how can i check it
1530 [23:15:21] <Pepper> ?
1531 [23:16:47] *** Quits: oxek (oxek@replaced-ip ) (Quit: oxek)
1532 [23:16:59] <Anarchy7> jmcnaught I deleted the rtorrent file in /usr/local. when I type "sudo systemctl start rtorrent" nothing happens, but when I type "rtorrent", it starts and everthing is fine here is my service file replaced-url
1533 [23:17:16] <Pepper> isapgswell ,replaced-url
1534 [23:17:20] <isapgswell> sudo quotaon -v /
1535 [23:17:32] <isapgswell> pepper sudo quotaon -v /
1536 [23:18:05] <Pepper> replaced-url
1537 [23:18:14] <isapgswell> pepper sudo edquota -u username
1538 [23:18:55] <Pepper> Disk quotas for user rozha (uid 1002):
1539 [23:18:55] <Pepper> Filesystem blocks soft hard inodes soft hard
1540 [23:19:01] <Pepper> up sorry
1541 [23:19:20] <Pepper> replaced-url
1542 [23:19:34] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: I don't know much about running system services attached to tmux/screen sorry. Type=oneshot is probably wrong though.
1543 [23:20:20] <isapgswell> pepper pastebin your fstab
1544 [23:20:32] <Anarchy7> the service file was created by a script, what is oneshot?
1545 [23:21:54] <isapgswell> pepper may you forgot to change /etc/fstab
1546 [23:22:37] <Pepper> isapgswell replaced-url
1547 [23:22:55] *** Joins: hwpplayer1 (~hwpplayer@replaced-ip )
1548 [23:22:56] *** Quits: hwpplayer1 (~hwpplayer@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1549 [23:23:11] <isapgswell> pepper file /etc/fstab
1550 [23:23:18] <isapgswell> pepper cat /etc/fstab
1551 [23:23:24] <Pepper> ah okey
1552 [23:24:03] <Pepper> replaced-url
1553 [23:24:43] *** Joins: fluiD (~fluiD@replaced-ip )
1554 [23:25:28] *** Joins: mentor (~m@replaced-ip )
1555 [23:25:44] <fluiD> I'm trying to get my debian install set up so I don't have to enter a password for sudo commands. I've seen numerous recommendations to add NOPASSWD to the sudoers file but that doesn't seem to fix it.
1556 [23:25:57] <isapgswell> pepper did you run: sudo quotacheck -cugm /
1557 [23:26:13] <dvs> fluiD: It does for me.
1558 [23:26:16] *** Quits: SponiX (~sponix@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1559 [23:26:24] <fluiD> dvs, :(
1560 [23:26:54] <Pepper> isapgswell; replaced-url
1561 [23:27:07] <isapgswell> pepper after editing /etc/fstab you need to reboot
1562 [23:27:12] <fluiD> #user privilege specification
1563 [23:27:13] *** Quits: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1564 [23:27:21] <dvs> fluiD: ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
1565 [23:27:29] <fluiD> debian ALL=(ALL:ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL
1566 [23:27:37] *** Quits: StathisA (~StathisA@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1567 [23:27:43] <isapgswell> pepper you trying do quota /home ??
1568 [23:27:44] <dvs> wrong
1569 [23:27:46] *** Quits: quasineutral (~quasineut@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
1570 [23:28:02] <Pepper> no onky users
1571 [23:28:02] <dvs> oh wait. That's not bad.
1572 [23:28:11] <fluiD> dvs, I just changed it to yours, logged out and logged back in, still asks for a password
1573 [23:28:11] *** Quits: elios (~kia@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1574 [23:28:38] <isapgswell> pepper you should use quotas on /home
1575 [23:28:52] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1576 [23:28:58] *** Joins: quasineutral (~quasineut@replaced-ip )
1577 [23:29:52] <isapgswell> pepper unless you did not separate this(home) partition
1578 [23:29:55] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1579 [23:30:18] <Pepper> setquota -u user 2000M 2200M 0 0 /
1580 [23:30:27] <isapgswell> pepper you trying to quota /
1581 [23:30:29] <Pepper> how to separete partition
1582 [23:30:45] <isapgswell> pepper your /home is appart
1583 [23:30:52] <isapgswell> pepper already
1584 [23:31:07] <wsky> find another dealer
1585 [23:31:19] *** Joins: polardroid (~polardroi@replaced-ip )
1586 [23:31:30] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip )
1587 [23:31:32] <Pepper> okey what i must do
1588 [23:31:58] <isapgswell> pepper you need to put usrquota,grpquota after defaults
1589 [23:31:59] <Pepper> i downt whant reboot system
1590 [23:32:07] *** Joins: elios (~kia@replaced-ip )
1591 [23:32:12] <isapgswell> pepper sorry you will need
1592 [23:32:21] <isapgswell> pepper i think
1593 [23:32:29] *** Joins: StathisA (~StathisA@replaced-ip )
1594 [23:32:34] *** Quits: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1595 [23:32:44] <Pepper> and then after , i will add user, make him quote reboot system
1596 [23:32:58] <isapgswell> pepper you can try remount instead
1597 [23:33:12] <Pepper> can you explain more
1598 [23:33:21] <Pepper> if you have time
1599 [23:33:26] <isapgswell> pepper UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4 defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1600 [23:33:59] <fluiD> I've added my user to the sudo group. I tried changing the %sudo line in /etc/sudoers to include the NOPASSWD, still asks for a password
1601 [23:34:32] <Pepper> isapgswell, can you explain what i , must do ?
1602 [23:34:41] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip )
1603 [23:34:41] <dvs> fluiD: Oh, I added my user ID to the sudoers file
1604 [23:34:51] <isapgswell> pepper and: sudo mount -o remount,usrquota,grpquota /home
1605 [23:35:20] <isapgswell> pepper clear / usrquota,grpquota
1606 [23:35:22] <Pepper> isapgswell add
1607 [23:35:59] <Pepper> >usrquota,grpquota
1608 [23:35:59] <Pepper> bash: usrquota,grpquota: command not found
1609 [23:36:05] <isapgswell> pepper your /etc/fstab has this line like this: UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4 defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1610 [23:36:20] <isapgswell> pepper do you quota package installed?
1611 [23:36:25] *** Joins: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip )
1612 [23:36:34] <Pepper> yes
1613 [23:37:18] <isapgswell> pepper did you run command: sudo mount -o remount,usrquota,grpquota /home ??
1614 [23:37:57] <isapgswell> pepper or simply: sudo mount -o remount /home
1615 [23:38:08] <isapgswell> pepper after edited fstab
1616 [23:38:11] <isapgswell> pepper corrent
1617 [23:38:16] <isapgswell> pepper correct
1618 [23:38:22] <Pepper> isapgswell replaced-url
1619 [23:38:41] <Pepper> yes i run
1620 [23:38:59] <Pepper> ~)> sudo mount -o remount,usrquota,grpquota /home
1621 [23:38:59] <Pepper> (root@replaced-ip )(~)>
1622 [23:39:08] <isapgswell> pepper did you run this command: sudo quotacheck -cugm /
1623 [23:39:16] <isapgswell> pepper did you run this command: sudo quotacheck -cugm /home
1624 [23:39:28] <isapgswell> pepper did you run this command: sudo quotacheck -cugm /home <---
1625 [23:39:40] <Pepper> (root@replaced-ip )(~)>quotacheck -cugm /
1626 [23:39:40] <Pepper> quotacheck: Quota for users is enabled on mountpoint / so quotacheck might damage the file.
1627 [23:39:40] <Pepper> Please turn quotas off or use -f to force checking.
1628 [23:40:02] <isapgswell> pepper /home <----------
1629 [23:40:23] <isapgswell> pepper quotacheck -cugm /home
1630 [23:40:37] <Pepper> now okey
1631 [23:40:46] <isapgswell> pepper forgot /
1632 [23:40:54] <isapgswell> pepper you quota is /home
1633 [23:41:06] *** Joins: jxel (Thunderbir@replaced-ip )
1634 [23:41:25] <isapgswell> forget /, treat now just /home
1635 [23:41:43] <isapgswell> pepper pastebin you new fstab
1636 [23:41:49] <Pepper> replaced-url
1637 [23:42:03] <Pepper> fstbin ok moment
1638 [23:42:54] *** Quits: karmar281_ (~karmar281@replaced-ip ) (Quit: IRC for Sailfish 0.9)
1639 [23:43:40] *** Quits: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1640 [23:43:49] *** Quits: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: "I'll be back" — Arnold Schwarzenegger)
1641 [23:44:39] <Pepper> isapgswell
1642 [23:44:40] <Pepper> replaced-url
1643 [23:45:28] <isapgswell> pepper it is wrong
1644 [23:46:08] <Pepper> what can i do
1645 [23:46:23] <isapgswell> pepper put usrquota,grpquota after defaults in the /home line
1646 [23:46:36] <Pepper> where i must put it
1647 [23:46:36] <Pepper> ?
1648 [23:47:26] <isapgswell> pepper localize /home line
1649 [23:48:05] <isapgswell> pepper and type usrquota,grpquota after defaults in the fstab file
1650 [23:48:33] <Pepper> can you explain, where i must go ?
1651 [23:48:40] *** Joins: locrian9 (~mike@replaced-ip )
1652 [23:48:43] <isapgswell> pepper open fstab
1653 [23:48:45] <Pepper> i , am not super user
1654 [23:48:48] <Pepper> ok
1655 [23:48:57] <isapgswell> pepper /etc/fstab
1656 [23:49:14] <Pepper> done
1657 [23:49:28] <isapgswell> pepper localize /home
1658 [23:50:17] <Pepper> on what line put it
1659 [23:50:21] <isapgswell> pepper in the same line you type like this: defaults,usrquota,grpquota
1660 [23:50:45] <isapgswell> pepper UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4 defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1661 [23:51:58] <Pepper> ah you meen i must change /dev/sda1 this line UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4 defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1662 [23:52:44] *** Joins: nolan___ (~nolan_@replaced-ip )
1663 [23:53:01] <isapgswell> pepper sda4 pepper
1664 [23:53:24] <Pepper> done
1665 [23:53:56] <isapgswell> pepper remove usrquota,grpquota from fstab, sda2 line
1666 [23:54:10] <isapgswell> pepper leave this: UUID=e93bc85e-0083-47c8-a684-58e51027d6ec / ext4 errors=remount-ro,usrquota,grpquota 0 1
1667 [23:54:35] <isapgswell> pepper without usrquota,grpquota
1668 [23:54:40] <Pepper> i can just # ?
1669 [23:54:46] <isapgswell> pepper UUID=e93bc85e-0083-47c8-a684-58e51027d6ec / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0 1
1670 [23:55:30] <isapgswell> pepper you if you copy paste below
1671 [23:55:46] <isapgswell> pepper you can, if yo ucopy paste below
1672 [23:55:46] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1673 [23:55:57] <Pepper> isapgswell
1674 [23:55:58] <isapgswell> pepper without # below
1675 [23:55:58] <Pepper> replaced-url
1676 [23:56:03] <Pepper> it look like that
1677 [23:56:22] *** Quits: filePeter (~filePeter@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1678 [23:56:37] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip )
1679 [23:56:57] <isapgswell> pepper i will explain better:
1680 [23:57:03] <isapgswell> pepper: # / was on /dev/sda2 during installation
1681 [23:57:03] <isapgswell> UUID=e93bc85e-0083-47c8-a684-58e51027d6ec / ext4 errors=remount-ro,usrquota,grpquota 0 1
1682 [23:57:24] <isapgswell> UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4 defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1683 [23:57:40] <isapgswell> pqpper do not delete uuid unless will break
1684 [23:57:50] <isapgswell> pepper do not delete uuid unless will break
1685 [23:58:26] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1686 [23:58:28] <Pepper> i dot
1687 [23:58:40] *** Quits: stree (~stree@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1688 [23:58:58] <Pepper> isapgswell , can you just corrent i send you dewbin paste
1689 [23:59:12] <Pepper> i will say you bg thanks
1690 [23:59:16] *** Joins: ttys000 (~ttys000@replaced-ip )
1691 [23:59:26] *** Quits: gelignite (~gelignite@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Stay safe!)
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