People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:07] <deeplogic> no, the guys real name is involved with it i think
1 [00:00:20] <deeplogic> klo-ner
2 [00:00:26] <deeplogic> klow-ner
3 [00:00:28] <deeplogic> heh
4 [00:01:19] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
5 [00:01:31] <CyberManifest> k-low-ner
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7 [00:02:10] <CyberManifest> jmcnaught that seems more fitting
8 [00:02:25] <deeplogic> jmcnaught: the swirl, i was there at the time, so i disagree
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10 [00:03:47] <deeplogic> the original artwork was by klowner, the actual distributed images can be anything
11 [00:04:57] <CyberManifest> deeplogic where yo there for the diamond too ?
12 [00:05:04] <CyberManifest> you*
13 [00:05:22] <deeplogic> i don't know what the diamond is
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15 [00:05:50] <CyberManifest> deeplogic look at the i in debian
16 [00:06:15] <Urk> Well I am trying to configure grub so that I can add pci=nomsi to kernel boot arguments but don't know which version of grub that I have. I tried running the grub-install -V command that was in the man, but get "command not found". I see grub in the boot directory, but can't see much more.
17 [00:06:58] <jmcnaught> Urk: why are you adding pci=nomsi to kernel boot arguments?
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19 [00:07:55] <deeplogic> hmmmm. "The original was 640x320, and this one, is well, a bit large", maybe klowner copied Rauls' art, could be, no money involved, only bragging rights
20 [00:08:21] <Urk> rabbitnightmare: Thought it might help lsblk display a more exact location in /dev
21 [00:08:44] <Urk> jmcnaught: What exactly does pci-nomsi due to the kernel boot?
22 [00:09:07] <zykotick9> Urk: <sidenote> using "su -" vs "su" might produce different results for grub-install
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24 [00:09:20] <jmcnaught> Urk: it will not change the behaviour of lsblk, which is universal. lsblk does not show /dev/ when it lists drives and partitions
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26 [00:09:47] <CyberManifest> Urk while I'd direct you to replaced-url
27 [00:09:50] <jmcnaught> Urk: look it up: replaced-url
28 [00:11:35] <rabbitnightmare> he has been told how to fix the issue several times, I am beginning to think he is a troll
29 [00:11:44] <rabbitnightmare> pci=nomsi in grub under kernel boot args
30 [00:11:46] <rabbitnightmare> easy fix
31 [00:11:52] <jmcnaught> fix for what though?
32 [00:12:14] <jmcnaught> lsblk not including /dev/ for every drive and partition that it lists? That was the issue.
33 [00:13:12] <rabbitnightmare> kingston uses a modified WD nvme rom and both drives are known to be problematic
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38 [00:15:17] <rabbitnightmare> Windows uses software to run the drives, they are not a hardware driven drive, cheap cut corner
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40 [00:15:50] <rabbitnightmare> bob garbage that barely passes qoc
41 [00:16:13] <rabbitnightmare> it is an issue that persists across Linux at the moment
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44 [00:17:10] <rabbitnightmare> kernel 5.12 will have fixes for the broken NVME drives
45 [00:17:21] <rabbitnightmare> replaced-url
46 [00:17:40] <sney> but the only problem was urk not seeing the device node, which was caused by not looking in /dev and being confused by lsblk output. if there's a real problem other than that, it hasn't been mentioned. just miscommunication.
47 [00:17:55] <rabbitnightmare> it is currently a beta kernel so please just use the boot arg for now
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49 [00:18:25] <rabbitnightmare> right IF there is an issue with your machine
50 [00:18:35] <rabbitnightmare> other than that ignore it and move on lol
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54 [00:21:32] <deeplogic> rabbitnightmare: do you know if there is a channel that would dicuss the rtw88 wifi driver ?
55 [00:22:07] <sney> deeplogic: the channel for support including drivers is this one. usually for realtek all you need is the firmware-realtek package though
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57 [00:23:35] <deeplogic> sney: nah, the bullseye driver is way broken on my hp laptop, pci errors, solid lockup, i had to get a usb dongle for wifi
58 [00:23:59] <sney> ah cool, thanks realtek
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61 [00:24:25] <sney> bullseye support is in #debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) for future reference. if you ask questions in here we will generally assume you are using stable.
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63 [00:25:03] <deeplogic> sney: oh my, thanks for the heds up
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70 [00:27:49] <rabbitnightmare> I try to buy hardware from vendors who support open standards
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72 [00:28:19] <rabbitnightmare> gpl drivers etc
73 [00:29:33] <rabbitnightmare> I learned that lesson about a decade ago
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76 [00:31:07] <sney> it's a good practice for linux compatibility. unfortunately this whole firmware situation has gotten pretty out of control. I'm in the midst of a project (tba) that may improve things on the user end, but it's really on the hardware vendors for being too paranoid to open up their HAL stuff etc
77 [00:31:52] <sney> stuck between "when in doubt, buy intel" and "but intel requires firmware for wifi and any gpu made after 2015" :(
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79 [00:32:27] <deeplogic> sney: are the laptops more of a concern compard to desktops ?
80 [00:33:10] <deeplogic> i'm pure latop in my implementations
81 [00:33:47] <sney> laptops can be more tricky, *mainly* because the OEMs reuse model numbers while changing components so it's hard to research accurately before getting the machine
82 [00:34:00] <sney> also the whole nvidia optimus situation
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85 [00:35:55] <deeplogic> yes, and even older hardware that i might consider as being covered, actually becomes abandoned..
86 [00:36:31] <deeplogic> laptops are like cell phones, just buy a new one and pray'
87 [00:37:00] <deeplogic> or even prey
88 [00:37:03] <deeplogic> hehe
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94 [00:43:05] <sney> I just buy old thinkpads. hasn't done me wrong yet!
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97 [00:45:01] <abff> old latitudes are pretty good too
98 [00:46:45] <sney> yeah, any business-grade laptop is usually a safe bet. I had a hp elitebook for a while that I gave to a friend years ago when he needed something for school, and it's outlived 3 of his wife's best buy consumer laptops
99 [00:46:55] <sney> pretty terribly slow by today's standards but still refuses to die
100 [00:46:59] <sney> /ot
101 [00:49:52] <abff> who needs speed when you have a terminal
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111 [00:59:21] <[O-O]> debian gives life to old pcs/laptops
112 [00:59:28] <[O-O]> any distro tbh
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138 [01:23:57] <rabbitnightmare> abff I am a sucker for a good bloaty gui like KDE Plasma
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140 [01:24:06] <rabbitnightmare> Gnome 40 looks like its gunna be tight
141 [01:26:52] <rabbitnightmare> suppose to be this month, I might compile it and give it a go
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150 [01:36:13] <allenwrench> hi i tried getting debian to work on ASUS hardware but it is stuck at the determining hard drives, I tried other distros like fedora, but they seem to not like the PCI Express Ports... the only distro that fully works is FOSSAPUP64 or Puppy Linux
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153 [01:40:36] <sney> allenwrench: "asus hardware" is a very wide category spanning decades, you would need to be a little more specific if you want support
154 [01:40:44] <sney> however, my guess is that your device is too new for the kernel in buster, and you might fare better with bullseye
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162 [01:46:13] <jmcnaught> allenwrench: The Debian installer shows log messages including errors on tty4, did you see anything there about your drives?
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169 [01:53:56] <tiagozacarias> Hello
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171 [01:54:06] <tiagozacarias> Hello Peoples, I need help with cups-pdf, I made the settings for cups and cups-pdf almost everything is fine but there are some documents that are interrupted by half of the printing to pdf has anyone ever been to issu?
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177 [01:59:32] <allenwrench> sney, thanks ill check out bullseye
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180 [02:01:13] <dvs> You know a new release is coming when people need to install bullseye more and more
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184 [02:05:54] <petn-randall> There used to be unofficial installer on kmuto.jp (a DD) with backports enabled and a backports kernel. That made installing on new hardware a lot easier.
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227 [02:36:51] <abff> rabbitnightmare: dwm baby, if I wanted fancy ui I'd use xfce ;)
228 [02:37:15] <rabbitnightmare> abff a lot of people like dwm
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261 [02:51:11] <tiagozacarias> hello help
262 [02:51:13] <tiagozacarias> ?
263 [02:51:44] <dvs> !ask
264 [02:51:44] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
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271 [02:55:01] <genr8_> dvs, when do we get the new release
272 [02:55:09] <genr8_> last november it was supposed to be march. but its march now
273 [02:55:24] <tiagozacarias> Hello Peoples, I need help with cups-pdf, I made the settings for cups and cups-pdf almost everything is fine but there are some documents that are interrupted by half of the printing to pdf has anyone ever been to issu?
274 [02:55:32] <dvs> !wwbr
275 [02:55:33] <dpkg> Now Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready."
276 [02:56:02] <genr8_> there was a webpage once with a timeplan but i forgot it
277 [02:56:04] <sney> I never heard any predictions for a march release. Q3 is much more likely
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279 [02:56:21] <sney> you may be thinking of replaced-url
280 [02:56:39] <genr8_> 2021-03-12: Hard Freeze - for key packages and packages without autopkgtests (scheduled)
281 [02:56:42] <genr8_> ok
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283 [02:58:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 985
284 [02:58:45] <tiagozacarias> heloo debhelper help ?
285 [02:59:03] <sney> tiagozacarias: is there any more information in /var/log/cups/error_log for the problem documents?
286 [02:59:25] <sney> and what documents fail, are they a certain length or do they contain non-text elements, etc
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288 [03:01:38] <tiagozacarias> Hello Sney
289 [03:01:39] <tiagozacarias> cups-pdf-adc-ctb_log:Tue Mar 9 15:45:25 2021 [DEBUG] title successfully retrieved: GP32DC28-job_42
290 [03:01:39] <tiagozacarias> cups-pdf-adc-ctb_log:Tue Mar 9 15:45:25 2021 [DEBUG] output filename created: /DATA/cups-pdf/adc-ctb/QUEUE/GP32DC28-job_42.pdf
291 [03:01:40] <tiagozacarias> cups-pdf-adc-ctb_log:Tue Mar 9 15:45:25 2021 [DEBUG] ghostscript commandline built: /usr/bin/gs -q -dCompatibilityLevel=1.2 -dNOPAUSE -dBATCH -dSAFER -sDEVICE=pdfwrite -sOutputFile="/DATA/cups-pdf/adc-ctb/QUEUE/GP32DC28-job_42.pdf" -dAutoRotatePages=/PageByPage -dAutoFilterColorImages=false -dColorImageFilter=/FlateEncode -dPDFSETTINGS=/prepress -c .setpdfwrite -f /var/spool/cups-pdf/SPOOL/cups2pdf-15603
292 [03:01:40] <tiagozacarias> cups-pdf-adc-ctb_log:Tue Mar 9 15:45:25 2021 [DEBUG] output file unlinked: /DATA/cups-pdf/adc-ctb/QUEUE/GP32DC28-job_42.pdf
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298 [03:04:05] <dvs> !paste
299 [03:04:05] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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301 [03:04:29] <tiagozacarias> Okay !
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309 [03:20:18] <sney> tiagozacarias: do not private message people without asking. Keep all questions in the channel.
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373 [04:45:49] <Urchin> I've made a mistake installing a new system
374 [04:46:10] <Urchin> I intended to set a hard drive to be used as /home, but somehow it ended up as /usr
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377 [04:47:08] <Urchin> so my plan is to copy /usr to a temporary directory, unmount and delete /usr and move temporary directory to /usr
378 [04:47:12] <Urchin> should that work?
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381 [04:50:20] <sney> sure. do it from a live environment.
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392 [04:58:54] <genr8_> yeah its gonna end badly if you do it from the running system
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394 [05:01:29] <Urchin> genr8_: not even start from a running system, actually
395 [05:01:42] <Urchin> reinstalling
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397 [05:01:50] <Urchin> no live environment handy
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403 [05:03:38] <dannylee> ok i having problem compiling with emacs...but with gvim...i set the compiler to gcc...what command do i use with gvim to compile????
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431 [05:28:15] <abff> the heck is gvim
432 [05:28:59] <sney> vim with a gtk frontend, that they're trying to use like an IDE
433 [05:29:17] <ndorf> :make
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437 [05:41:51] <abff> sney: vim is the best ide
438 [05:42:01] <abff> so I approve
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443 [05:49:21] <Urk> Is anyone running a battery manager from the repos? I'm looking for a program that charges to 90%, and starts charging again around 30%.
444 [05:49:48] <Urk> Kind of like a battery management tool. Supposedly the newer electronics don't have problems, but I keep coming across laptops that do have problems so I am being cautious.
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448 [05:56:18] <jmcnaught> Urk: tlp does that for ThinkPads, maybe it has support for other laptops too.
449 [05:56:32] <Urk> tlp?
450 [05:56:54] <Urk> power saver.
451 [05:57:40] <jmcnaught> "For ThinkPads it provides a unified way to configure charging thresholds and recalibrate the battery for all models which support it…"
452 [05:57:53] <Urk> Is tlp strictly a command line utility? I find no GUI after installing it.
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454 [05:58:35] <jmcnaught> Urk: no GUI, "apt show tlp" to read its description.
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459 [06:09:42] <Urk> jmcnaught: tlp is in the repos. What are the recommended settings? There is a preset option, but apparently it is easy to modify. Historically I was told the best battery life was 90/30: charge to 90%, and recharge at 30%.
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461 [06:13:47] <jmcnaught> Urk: did you figure out if tlp supports your laptop? It might only be able to do battery charging thresholds with ThinkPads. I don't use it, though maybe I should. The package has a README.Debian and some man pages.
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466 [06:16:25] <Urk> jmcnaught: Based on the limited commands I have run, tlp will work with my laptop, but only for preconfigured factory settings that tlp has installed. I can't change the charge, and discharge options, and those are apparently reserved for Thinkpad. As a result, the command tlp setcharge doesn't work. However, tlp start, and tlp bat do work, but it is unknown as to what the preconfigured factory settings are. They might be 90/70.
467 [06:17:56] <Urk> jmcnaught> Any idea how to fix the folder option I have? I was left with no folders after an install. A couple of days ago, someone suggest I consider using replaced-url
468 [06:18:44] <jmcnaught> Urk: if the documentation says that battery charging thresholds can only be set for ThinkPads (/usr/share/doc/tlp/README) then I would not expect it to be able to do that with your Dell.
469 [06:19:37] <Urk> Didn't see documentation per se that indicated that, but I received an error message when running tlp setcharge indicating that was for Thinkpads only. There must have been some benefit to tlp or it likely wouldn't have ended up in the Debian repos.
470 [06:19:55] <Urk> I would like to set the battery to 90/30
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474 [06:25:05] <jmcnaught> Urk: what desktop environment are you using? What does "ls ~" return?
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477 [06:26:45] <Urk> jmcnaught: ls ~ returns nothing
478 [06:26:54] <Urk> I am on xfce which is a lot like Windows 7
479 [06:29:27] <Urk> Incidentally the following script recommended earlier didn't work, but not sure if rebooting may have an effect /srid-resu-gdx/erawtfoS/ikiw/gro.potksedeerf.replaced-url
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482 [06:31:27] <Urk> Also, adding the following folders does not show up after running ls or ls ~: Documents, Desktop, Downloads, Pictures.
483 [06:31:36] <Urk> Seems like file system is messed up good.
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488 [06:34:28] <budlight> hello
489 [06:35:23] <jmcnaught> Urk: what does "mount | grep home" say?
490 [06:37:09] <Urk> jmcnaught: /dev/nvme0n1p6 on /home type ext4 (rw,relatime)
491 [06:38:08] <jmcnaught> Urk: does "ls -a ~" return anything other thatn . and ..? Run this as regular user, not as root.
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493 [06:39:53] <Urk> Alreplaced-url
494 [06:40:13] <Urk> Skip the Al in front of the http. Not sure where the Al came from.
495 [06:40:25] <Urk> replaced-url
496 [06:40:47] <jmcnaught> Urk: why are you using sudo for that command that I said "Run this as regular user, not as root." ???
497 [06:41:08] <Urk> Sorry. Let me retry. WAsn't sure what you originally meant.
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502 [06:43:27] <Urk> replaced-url
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504 [06:43:41] <Urk> This was not run as root nor as sudo.
505 [06:44:17] <jmcnaught> Urk: so you clearly have contents in your $HOME. Is it possible that you deleted ~/Pictures and ~/Video? You do have ~/Downloads and ~/Documents.
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509 [06:44:59] <jmcnaught> Urk: under xfce settings if you go to "Session and startup" on the "Application autostart" tab one of the items listed is "User folders update"… did you disable this?
510 [06:45:12] <Urk> Downloads and Documents were folders I added, and they don't show up with LS. It didn't do any good to add them because files entered into these folders end up on the desktop instead of staying where they belong.
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513 [06:47:15] <Urk> jmcnaught> I did not disable the user folders, but would like to reenable them.
514 [06:48:29] <Urk> How do I renable the folders? Where do I find the "Session and startup"? Folder problem has existed since the initial install.
515 [06:48:54] <Urk> Is the settings in the system area?
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518 [06:50:24] <jmcnaught> Urk: I do not normally use xfce so I booted an Debian 10 Live xfce in a VM and I found it by clicking on Applications in the top left corner of the screen, then Settings was the sixth item from the top of that menu.
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521 [06:51:55] <Urk> I usually move the menu from the top to the bottom immediately so my applications launch area is in the bottom left hand corner.
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523 [06:53:05] <Urk> I found a tool for application autostart. Still reading.
524 [06:53:53] <jmcnaught> Urk: I would also make a new user and log in as them and see if they have the XDG user dirs.
525 [06:54:50] <Urk> jmcnaught> User folder update was already selected so not sure what is going on.
526 [06:54:58] <Urk> I definitely haven't deleted anything.
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534 [07:02:45] <abff> is there an apt analogy for `aptitude why $package`?
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539 [07:05:25] <jelly> abff, you can try to remove the package with a --dry-run option added, that would show everything that recursively depended on it
540 [07:05:41] <jelly> apt-get -s remove foo
541 [07:05:53] <abff> jelly: you'd need --autoremove too right?
542 [07:06:05] <jelly> no
543 [07:06:10] <abff> that doesn't cover recommended tho
544 [07:06:14] <jelly> it does not
545 [07:06:25] <abff> still, better than nothing
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548 [07:07:18] <abff> ty
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551 [07:14:54] <themill> "apt rdepends --installed" comes close-ish
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557 [07:23:01] <abff> Doesn't follow the dependency chain though
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560 [07:27:51] <themill> you can add --recurse
561 [07:28:32] <themill> but you get to stitch together the story yourself
562 [07:29:32] <themill> you can subscribe to #911651 if you're curious
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572 [07:46:19] <Urk> tlp
573 [07:47:08] <Urk> jmcnaught> Anything else besides tlp? I just unplugged the battery because tlp failed to stop charting at 90%. In fact, it went all the way to 100%.
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590 [08:03:20] <urk> jmcnaught: I have logged in as user ricky, and the folders are there. I suspect the folders may have been lost while while attempting to fix the panel, but not really sure. One thing strange with the current user is that pdf- is showing up in the upper right hand corner. Shouldn't that be ricky? And not pdf-?
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592 [08:03:47] <urk> I was thinking about copying everything over to ricky, deleting pdf, and then changing ricky's name to pdf.
593 [08:05:00] <jmcnaught> urk: why can't you just recreate the empty directories in your original user's $HOME?
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603 [08:11:27] <[O-O]> hello
604 [08:11:39] <[O-O]> i typed a no-no command in my terminal
605 [08:12:03] <[O-O]> i erased the ~/.bash_history file. is that enough?
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618 [08:21:59] <unixbsd_1> hello
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620 [08:22:53] <unixbsd> a Little question, is there maybe a sort of Server that looks like Google Drive or Gmail or Google contact boot, over a debian server ? In order to have a same thing, but on own debian server?
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626 [08:27:43] <[O-O]> unixbsd: hey. look into owncloud
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633 [08:37:48] <jelly> nextcloud*
634 [08:37:51] <TheBigK02> [O-O]: u would prefer owncloud over nextcloud? Im kinda curious. I'm using nextcloud right now but I must say I am not super happy with it. Its slow
635 [08:39:01] <TheBigK02> I read about the new owncloud which was basically refactored for kubernetes/cloud use... I might give that a shot when its becoming stable
636 [08:39:07] <jelly> unixbsd: drive for file sharing, gmail is mail, contacts and calendar, which functionality do you need?
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638 [08:39:31] <jelly> there are like 4 different things there
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668 [09:08:22] <ratrace> clearly: nextcloud :) j/k
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685 [09:25:27] <ychaouche> o/
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687 [09:28:18] <rdz> hey all. How are packages maintained from oldstable when upstream doesn't maintain version included in oldstable anymore?
688 [09:29:02] <rdz> Specifically, I'm asking aobut mariadb-server in Buster, which comes with version 10.1. Upstream ended support for 10.1 in Oct 2020.
689 [09:29:41] <rdz> sorry: i meant Stretch (not Buster, obviously)
690 [09:30:03] <rdz> Can we expect security fixes for mariadb-server in Stretch?
691 [09:30:14] <ratrace> who knows.
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693 [09:31:09] <ratrace> Stretch has been EOL'd last year, so it's out of official, _regular_, debian support. it is now in LTS. LTS is .... best effort, maybe, who knows.
694 [09:31:43] <ratrace> replaced-url
695 [09:31:50] <rdz> ratrace, i thought LTS means specifically there is security support
696 [09:32:23] <ratrace> read about LTS in Debian on the above link. it's not handled by Debian Security team
697 [09:32:27] <rdz> yeah, just read it
698 [09:32:29] <rdz> thanks!
699 [09:32:38] <rdz> that's an important piece of information
700 [09:33:09] <ratrace> You should really upgrade to Buster. If you require really long term support for whatever reason, consider paying for it.
701 [09:33:22] <rdz> ratrace, got it. thanks
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706 [09:38:16] <ratrace> also consider that the EOL'd upstream in _regular_ buster is also handled best effort, who knows. sacrifices are made and often just very serious vulns are tackled, the "less" serious ones aren't. for example with PHP, only remote exploits are.
707 [09:38:37] <ratrace> %s/buster/debian release that's not EOL'd/
708 [09:40:26] <ratrace> so for example, a local priv escalation probably won't be patched in EOL'd PHP. This will affect Bullseye's second year as PHP 7.4 expires in november next year.
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712 [09:47:35] <jelly> LTS _is_ all about paying for support, it wouldn't be there if there were no sponsors
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714 [09:51:10] <ratrace> indeed.
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787 [11:19:25] <dff> hi all, i have an issue with a debian 10.8 vm, console greets me with this error msg replaced-url
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789 [11:20:48] <dff> fsck -fy /dev/sda1
790 [11:20:51] <dff> returns
791 [11:21:02] <dff> replaced-url
792 [11:21:26] <dff> not sure what to make of it
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794 [11:23:08] <ratrace> dff: corrupt filesystem. which hypervisor is that and what type is the virtual storage?
795 [11:23:30] <jelly> dff, you did the file system check and it fixed things. Some data may have been lost. Try to boot normally now.
796 [11:23:39] <ratrace> also can you boot normally after the fsck?
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798 [11:24:05] <dff> promox pve 6.3.4 and VirtIO SCSI
799 [11:24:18] <dff> ratrace: how do i reboot from that terminal?
800 [11:24:25] <dff> i cant from the hypervisor
801 [11:24:28] <ratrace> type reboot
802 [11:24:47] <ratrace> but what type of storage is that? file on the host filesystem? zvol? LV? something else?
803 [11:24:47] <dff> it just cycles the prompt with that command
804 [11:25:10] <ratrace> I think if you type "exit" it should continue the boot process
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806 [11:25:57] <dff> exit did the trick
807 [11:25:59] <dff> thanks
808 [11:26:01] <jelly> echo b >> /proc/sysrq-trigger, if that file exists
809 [11:26:43] <jelly> exit does not reboot the machine, it just continues from where initramfs stopped because of fs errors. You still want to reboot once and see the boot process completes
810 [11:27:38] <ratrace> apparently it doesn't if "reboot cycles the prompt" .. I assume the OP means they're just back to busybox shell
811 [11:27:41] <jelly> (I might be remembering wrong, or the initramfs might be doing a reboot post fsck, maybe)
812 [11:27:59] <dff> rebooted fine
813 [11:28:22] <ratrace> there's also these, usable from the grub menu: replaced-url
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815 [11:29:01] <ratrace> dff: so the $1M question here is how the virtual fs got corrupt. did you have an unclean forced shutdown in the middle of something in it writing?
816 [11:29:27] <ratrace> otherwise, check the host side filesystem and hardware issues. last time I had VM fs corrupt was when the host motherboard went belly up
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818 [11:30:03] <dff> ratrace: nothing, all that vm has running is a cosmos/tendermint daemon
819 [11:30:15] <dff> that process threw a bunch of errors
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822 [11:30:28] <ratrace> dff: then make sure you check the host thoroughly
823 [11:30:33] <dff> tried a reboot, and was greeted by the first screen shot i posted
824 [11:30:45] <ratrace> dff: "tried a reboot" how?
825 [11:31:01] <jelly> file system errors again?
826 [11:31:05] <ratrace> forced shutdown, aka "yanking the virtual power coord", in the middle of something in the VM writing, will produce these
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828 [11:31:41] <jelly> dff, do they, and the fsck output, look _exactly_ the same?
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830 [11:32:30] <dff> ratrace: killed the process running the daemon with ctrl-c (stdout went to console)
831 [11:32:31] <jelly> dff, it's possible the underlying storage is broken and/or gone to read-only mode, and that the VM solution is lying about writing the fixes down to disk
832 [11:32:32] <dff> sudo reboot
833 [11:32:51] <jelly> dff, contact your hypervisor admin
834 [11:32:54] <jelly> if so
835 [11:32:57] <dff> you are talking to him
836 [11:33:02] <jelly> :-D
837 [11:33:10] <dff> i will run a diskcheck
838 [11:33:11] <ratrace> dff: yeah that's teh "yakning the virtual power coord"
839 [11:33:14] <dff> from proxmox
840 [11:33:33] <jelly> dff, look at dmesg and logs in proxmox.
841 [11:34:20] <jelly> and answer rat'race's questions about storage backend
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844 [11:34:59] <dff> thanks guys, ill get to around to as soon as im done putting out the bigger fire
845 [11:35:11] <ratrace> the SBG fire? :))
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847 [11:35:20] <jelly> hopefully not that literal
848 [11:35:35] <ratrace> unless OVH
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861 [11:36:59] <jelly> we had a DC fire after the last earthquake, lots of paid overtime hours
862 [11:37:34] <ratrace> "fun times"
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864 [11:38:01] <ratrace> thing is, even if none of the servers were literally on fire, they're probably chock full of sticky, greasy, plastic smoke residue soot and whatnot
865 [11:38:11] <ratrace> good luck cleaning that
866 [11:38:30] <dff> replaced-url
867 [11:38:35] <dff> LVM
868 [11:38:59] <ratrace> samsung 970 pro. fancy. :)
869 [11:39:27] <jelly> still, a consumer device, does it have power loss protection
870 [11:39:38] <dff> no
871 [11:39:40] <ratrace> samsung pro aren't consumer
872 [11:39:41] <dff> homelab
873 [11:39:57] <jelly> prosumer? :-)
874 [11:40:08] <dff> it has surge protection
875 [11:40:18] <dff> if i cant afford another disk to mirror i cant afford a UPS
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878 [11:40:28] <dff> :(
879 [11:40:43] <ratrace> bigger SLC cache; much bigger rated TBW than the non-pro EVO in the series
880 [11:41:21] <ratrace> anyhoo this, kids, is why we need data checksummed filesystems, preferably with redundancy for auto heals :)
881 [11:41:23] <dff> which check do you suggest i perform on /dev/nvme0n1 ?
882 [11:41:37] <jelly> you can md mirror to a hdd every now and then
883 [11:41:55] <dff> i have the actual VMs backed up to storage on ZFS
884 [11:42:02] <jelly> good
885 [11:42:10] <dff> with one degraded disk
886 [11:42:12] <dff> :D
887 [11:42:17] <jelly> /o\
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889 [11:42:32] * jelly hopes it's raidz2
890 [11:42:38] <ratrace> dff: there isn't any proper test. smartctl might tell you things but that's often false negative. you don't have data checksumming so all you can do is a destructive badblocks to test individual sectors
891 [11:42:40] <dff> s/2/1
892 [11:42:52] <ratrace> consider ZFS. proxmox can use ZFS transparently
893 [11:43:11] <ratrace> give it redundancy (raid1 or better) and your life will become much much much easier in case of data degradation
894 [11:43:50] <dff> i knew this was a one way ride when i bought the server
895 [11:43:56] <dff> i had limitations on what i could buy
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897 [11:44:17] <ratrace> actually.... that being SSD, one test is to write out a bunch of small files, delete half of them, write again. that'll force SSD controller to rezone things and might .... _might_ ... hit bad sectors which are then logged, noted, and probably reallocated
898 [11:44:18] <dff> also this is very far from my day job
899 [11:44:19] <jelly> it's unusual to see fs errors right after a successful fsck, so something else is going on
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901 [11:45:07] <dff> the server had an uptime of like 45 days
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903 [11:45:29] <ratrace> dff: if that server has any serious role where data degradation is not an option .... you should _really_ use ZFS with that proxmox
904 [11:45:33] <dff> im not ruling out the daemon is at fault, it's alpha software
905 [11:45:57] <ratrace> what daemon?
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907 [11:46:21] <dff> ratrace: so i should reinstall proxmox, use the single disk zfs and restore the vms?
908 [11:46:35] <dff> single disk with zfs*
909 [11:46:42] <ratrace> even single disk ZFS is way better than dumb, no datacsum ext4 or raw LV for the VMs
910 [11:46:45] <dff> cosmos/tendermint
911 [11:46:55] <ratrace> but... really give it redundacy if you care about data
912 [11:47:05] <dff> how :(
913 [11:47:10] <dff> $$
914 [11:47:13] <ratrace> dff: is that a purely userland process/daemon or does it hook into kernel vfs APIs?
915 [11:47:21] <dff> userland
916 [11:47:28] <ratrace> then it cannot possibly cause ext4 corruption
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918 [11:47:59] <ratrace> unless... indirectly.... by hitting a kernel bug or something. speaking of .... which kernel is in the VM?
919 [11:48:13] <jelly> does ext4 evne have data checksums now?
920 [11:48:18] <ratrace> nope
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922 [11:48:23] <ratrace> only metadata, which it always had
923 [11:48:31] <jelly> not always but yeah
924 [11:48:42] <ratrace> the _only_ filesystems with data checksums are btrfs and zfs .. or use dm-integrity under mdadm for auto heals
925 [11:48:53] <dff> Kernel: Linux 4.19.0-14-amd64
926 [11:49:05] <ratrace> there's talk about xfs growin the data csum abilty, maybe, as part of Stratis but .... we'll see
927 [11:49:27] <ratrace> dff: okay, so it's not 5.12 rc with that nasty corruption thingy involving swapfile :)
928 [11:49:31] <dff> would zfs involve lots more read writes?
929 [11:49:48] <ratrace> nope. especially if you have gobs of RAM, its ARC thingy is marvelous
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931 [11:50:09] <dff> as $$$ is a real issue here id rather it live longer and die, then live shorter and tell me just before it dies
932 [11:50:23] <dff> ok ill look into that
933 [11:50:49] <ratrace> even single disk ZFS can help. it'll stop a read and bark loudly on data corruption, so you can restoree that one file or something.
934 [11:51:38] <ratrace> dff: just note ZFS is not a simple/equivalent replacement of ext4. it's more an equivalent replacement of ext4+mdadm+LVM all packed into single suite called ZFS.
935 [11:51:42] <jelly> !woof
936 [11:51:42] * dpkg barks, you one hot bitch , $1!
937 [11:51:51] <ratrace> jelly: tsk tsk tsk tsk
938 [11:51:54] <jelly> ooo-kay
939 [11:52:44] <ratrace> dff: but proxmox should handle all that transparently so you can ... delegate ZFS management to it, while you, along the way, learn of zfs specifics
940 [11:52:49] <jelly> dpkg, factinfo cmd: woof (.*?)
941 [11:52:49] <dpkg> there's no such factoid as cmd: woof (.*?), jelly
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943 [11:53:39] <jelly> !factinfo woof
944 [11:53:39] <dpkg> woof -- last modified at Sat Jun 12 22:34:31 2004 by FieldySnuts!VW1h15xeFg@fieldysnuts.registered; it has been requested 45 times, last by jelly, 1m 57s ago.
945 [11:54:01] <jelly> okay, she was allowed to say that I guess
946 [11:54:16] <ratrace> also. a dog saying "bitch" is politically correct
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948 [11:56:24] <mirrorbird> hi
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958 [12:00:10] <Franciman> Hello
959 [12:00:20] <Franciman> do debian repos contain packages that are no longer mantained?
960 [12:00:37] <ratrace> it's not impossible
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962 [12:00:41] <Franciman> for example I wanted to install the bip package, but it seems that the last update to bip was from the last year
963 [12:00:59] <Franciman> so I am not sure if it is safe to install it, or I am installing an unmantained piece of software
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966 [12:02:34] <ratrace> ,v bip
967 [12:02:46] <jelly> bah!
968 [12:02:48] <ratrace> where's judd!
969 [12:03:07] <ratrace> Franciman: is there a newere release upstream even? I don't see any. In fact, stable seems to have 0.9.0-RC, and upstream says 0.8.9 is latest
970 [12:03:34] <Franciman> yeah, I can't see none, too
971 [12:03:37] <ratrace> $1M question is how did a RC package end up in Stable....
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973 [12:04:02] <ratrace> and there seems to be ONE newer release upstream rc4, while rc3 is in stable
974 [12:04:24] <Franciman> maybe they are so slow, that rc is considered stable?
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976 [12:04:51] <ratrace> rc4 was promptly upgraded to in sid and testing, so I'm guessing it's maintained in debian.
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978 [12:05:30] <ratrace> Franciman: seems like 2 years between rc3 and rc4, so "maybe". still.... RC grade release in Stable? tsk tsk tsk.
979 [12:05:46] <Franciman> lol
980 [12:05:54] <Franciman> eheh I don't know what to trust now
981 [12:05:59] <mirrorb2rd> i love you all *hug*
982 [12:06:03] <Franciman> maybe I will try weechat
983 [12:06:10] <Franciman> i liked that bip is really small
984 [12:06:12] <Franciman> compared to znc
985 [12:06:18] <Franciman> and weechat is 35MB o.o
986 [12:06:23] <Franciman> with all the deps I do not need
987 [12:06:29] <ratrace> weechat is a client... bip and znc are proxies.... can weechat proxy too?
988 [12:06:36] <Franciman> yep, today i found out
989 [12:06:39] <Franciman> it has a plugin called relay
990 [12:06:47] <ratrace> oh, okay
991 [12:07:15] <ratrace> anyway if you're concerned with bip, explore its commit log, see what changed, how, what teh open issues are, make a decision based on that.
992 [12:07:21] <Franciman> replaced-url
993 [12:07:42] <ratrace> whatev. <3 irssi 4 life! :))
994 [12:08:26] <Franciman> does irssi do relay?
995 [12:08:54] <ratrace> not that I know of. but irssi + tmux + cheap ovh vps that your company is paying without knowing == priceless.
996 [12:09:14] <Franciman> eheh I get it
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998 [12:09:18] <Franciman> but I am on the noob side
999 [12:09:20] <Franciman> :P
1000 [12:09:22] <Franciman> I use hexchat
1001 [12:09:46] <dff> bitchx or riot
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1005 [12:14:56] <wsky> ircloud <3
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1007 [12:15:00] * wsky takes cover
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1068 [13:10:51] <hmpf1> Hi. I have a question about debootstrap. I used to get the chroot i wanted from it. Then a year later, doing the same thing, i am missing a bunch of packages (like vi). About 40 less packages are installed. Any idea where that comes from?
1069 [13:11:30] <hmpf1> it's a normal buster base image.
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1100 [13:42:16] <urk> I am wondering what will happen if I delete user pdf after I create another user called Ricky. I am inside Ricky and the folder structure appears to be normal, and working. In contrast, pdf has problems, and nothing shows up after running ls ~
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1104 [13:45:14] <dob1> how can I umount a partition but keep the device attached?
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1106 [13:45:24] <dob1> when I umount a partition the /dev/sdx go
1107 [13:45:33] <dob1> (usb)
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1109 [13:46:39] <urk> dob1: I am a novice, but isn't that something like umount /dev/sdx?
1110 [13:46:59] <urk> dob1: Is /dev/sdx currently mounted to /mnt?
1111 [13:47:00] <dob1> this is the device itself
1112 [13:47:25] <dob1> most of the time is like /dev/sdaN that is mounted
1113 [13:47:35] <urk> What does lsblk say?
1114 [13:48:46] <urk> You can paste the results to paste.debian.net
1115 [13:49:27] <dob1> it was my fault, nevermind
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1126 [14:05:21] <jelly> dpkg, stretch->buster
1127 [14:05:21] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
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1139 [14:19:11] <Franciman> I really wish I was in stretch
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1142 [14:27:53] <Shadur> This probably won't matter to anyone sane (unlike me) but there's a mild bug in replaced-url
1143 [14:28:45] <ratrace> "well duh"?
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1145 [14:30:27] <themill> Shadur: that is to be expected
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1149 [14:32:57] <Shadur> themill: Yeah, it's fair. But it turns out I had an old Squeeze box still hanging around and I figured I'd make it a lab experiment to do a serial dist upgrade and prove it's doable.
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1155 [14:37:39] <m1dnight_> Hi all. I have monit installed on my server, and today I got a mail saying that my rootfs was remounted as read-only, and 3 minutes later is was remounted as read/write.
1156 [14:37:50] <m1dnight_> I have checked /var/log/syslog, but I can't see anything regarding that.
1157 [14:38:58] <m1dnight_> I did see that 12:55 a few cronjobs started like `/usr/lib/pcp/bin/pmlogger_check`
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1160 [14:40:59] <ratrace> m1dnight_: what did monit base that info on? which sensor? filesystem remounts are logged via kern facility, and thus would've ended in /var/log/kern.log and syslog
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1171 [14:50:47] <DrBunsen> Hey all, anyone ever used xdotool? I am using this app on f-droid called "XMouse" and it works wonderfully on my laptop with the xfce de. On my main machine with gnome tho, I can't see the cursor. I see my normal cursor and I see the effect of the invisible cursor.
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1237 [15:56:21] <istrive> hellow world! It's good to be alive and breathing on my on! God help and protect us all...
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1240 [15:58:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1020
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1242 [15:58:25] <istrive> I am puzzled with logrotate, if I run it manually logrotete -v /etc/logrotete.conf it works flawlessly, and the service stay running as expected, but overnigh when cron.daily executes the service exits with not specific error and stops running... What should I look for in this situation?
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1252 [16:04:10] <ratrace> apt install patience
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1262 [16:15:47] <jelly> ,v postgres
1263 [16:15:48] <judd> No package named 'postgres' was found in amd64.
1264 [16:15:51] <jelly> ,v postgresql
1265 [16:15:52] <judd> Package: postgresql on amd64 -- jessie: 9.4+165+deb8u3; jessie-security: 9.4+165+deb8u4; stretch: 9.6+181+deb9u3; stretch-security: 9.6+181+deb9u3; buster-security: 11+200+deb10u3; buster: 11+200+deb10u4; bullseye: 13+225; sid: 13+225
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1277 [16:25:13] <istrive> I am puzzled with logrotate, if I run it manually logrotete -v /etc/logrotete.conf it works flawlessly, and the service stay running as expected, but overnigh when cron.daily executes the service exits with not specific error and stops running... What should I look for in this situation?
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1298 [16:41:24] <istrive> My logrotate serivice stops every night after cron.daily executes. Manual run of logrotate -v /etc/logrotate.conf shows no errors at all! What am I missing?
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1300 [16:42:52] <ratrace> istrive: is it rotating logs? logrotate is not a service, it's a cron executed program. it's supposed to stop after it's done
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1302 [16:43:31] <istrive> the service logrotate is exiting with error after the execution of the cron.daily that's the problem!
1303 [16:43:41] <istrive> I have to manually restart the service every morning!
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1305 [16:43:53] <istrive> that's not normal!
1306 [16:44:02] <ratrace> how do you know it's exiting with error?
1307 [16:44:08] <greycat> What does the error say?
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1309 [16:44:22] <istrive> because the systemctl status logrotate reports it!
1310 [16:44:44] <istrive> that's the problem, no error especified only exited with error 1
1311 [16:44:57] <greycat> run "journalctl -u logrotate" as root
1312 [16:45:17] <ratrace> istrive: please pastebin what it reports. also journalctl -u cron.service and use --since and --until to limit the logs for the period it fails in
1313 [16:45:59] <istrive> one minute
1314 [16:46:03] <istrive> let do it now
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1316 [16:46:30] <ratrace> oh it became a systemd timer unit....
1317 [16:47:01] <greycat> news to me as well
1318 [16:47:09] <ratrace> istrive: wait, stop, that won't show anything. it's now a timer on buster, that cron.daily is not actually doing anything
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1320 [16:47:25] <ratrace> do what greycat showed, journalctl -u logrotate.service
1321 [16:47:37] <istrive> nothing there
1322 [16:47:52] <ratrace> so start with a pastebin of the error you're seeing
1323 [16:48:08] <istrive> --no entries--
1324 [16:48:37] <greycat> Disk full?
1325 [16:48:39] <ratrace> so start with a pastebin of the error you've been impatiently screaming about for the past hour
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1328 [16:49:21] <istrive> here is the pastebin of systemctl status
1329 [16:49:22] <istrive> replaced-url
1330 [16:49:29] <ratrace> if /var were on fs that's full, there'd be other nasty problems too
1331 [16:50:10] <ratrace> istrive: journalctl --since '2021-03-10 00:00:00' | grep -i logrot
1332 [16:50:31] <greycat> OK, the first surprising thing is that your logrotate.service is enabled. Mine isn't.
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1334 [16:50:47] <ratrace> greycat: upgraded instead of reinstalled buster?
1335 [16:50:57] <greycat> I'm on upgraded-to bullseye at the moment.
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1338 [16:51:29] <ratrace> ah. I found that upgrading does not result with the same system installing does. this should be very important distinction in supporting, that's essentially two different debians.
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1340 [16:51:42] <ratrace> usrmerge is one big diff between the two
1341 [16:52:10] <ratrace> so when jells says he upgraded since... many orbits ago.... I wonder if that's even Debian any more :)
1342 [16:52:22] <istrive> here we go
1343 [16:52:22] <istrive> replaced-url
1344 [16:52:25] <greycat> do you have a "pure" buster system where logrotate.service is enabled?
1345 [16:52:31] <ratrace> I do here, yes.
1346 [16:52:45] <istrive> yes
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1348 [16:53:35] <ratrace> istrive: that shows some problem with mysql credentials.... I don't even what that has to do with logrotate, and I don't use mysql to check myself.
1349 [16:53:44] <greycat> istrive: did you run replaced-url
1350 [16:53:56] <istrive> i did as root
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1353 [16:54:50] <istrive> error: 'Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)' its MAriaDB the issue here!
1354 [16:55:09] <greycat> if logrotate is trying to talk to a database, yeah, that might do it
1355 [16:55:11] <ratrace> yes, logrotate is somehow using the database
1356 [16:55:36] <ratrace> I never used logrotate that way and I can't even begin to imagine what it wants with mysql, so that's somethign specific for your config to chekc.
1357 [16:55:56] <greycat> my first guess would be that it's trying to ask the DB to go into a dormant state for a second
1358 [16:56:05] <greycat> but I have no idea whether logrotate can do that
1359 [16:56:08] <istrive> thank you guys for helping me to narrow down the issue! I knew I could count on this community!
1360 [16:56:16] <ratrace> it can pre and post rotate with signals and executables
1361 [16:56:32] <ratrace> so maybe pastebin the mysql specific logrotate.conf.d so we can take a peek
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1363 [16:57:48] <istrive> there is a known issue with the logrotate and MySQL, I have gone through many steps to fix it but clearly hasn't been successfully done!
1364 [16:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1018
1365 [16:58:26] <greycat> (and you didn't think it was important to mention that you'd been banging on the logrotate configs...)
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1367 [16:59:17] <istrive> I did't change anything onthe conf files from any of them
1368 [16:59:31] <istrive> I am researching it though!
1369 [17:00:04] <ratrace> I'd start with /etc/logrotate.d/mysql or mariadb whatever related is in there
1370 [17:00:05] <istrive> I did chan ges on MariaDB nothing outside ...
1371 [17:00:37] <istrive> changing user perfmissions on the databases, that's all!
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1379 [17:07:27] <brigand> hi. is it a bad idea to change "delete previous word" to ctrl+backspace in the terminal? (the default is alt+backspace but every other program uses ctrl+backspace)
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1384 [17:12:49] <ratrace> huh... alt backspace.... and all this time I've been using vim bindings in bash lol
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1387 [17:16:18] <greycat> I've been using vi bindings in ksh/bash for about 30 years, so that's not going to change.
1388 [17:16:37] <ratrace> hear hear.
1389 [17:16:51] <brigand> thanks. very helpful
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1391 [17:17:03] * greycat wonders what that was about
1392 [17:17:23] <greycat> I was literally starting to type out "brigand, you can do whatever you want..." and he stormed out
1393 [17:17:33] <ratrace> we didn't make their decision for them, so they ragequit :)
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1401 [17:22:09] <jelly> ,kernels
1402 [17:22:10] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-4-686 (5.10.19-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-4-686 (5.10.19-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.10.13-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.14-686 (4.19.171-2~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
1403 [17:22:11] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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1414 [17:32:33] <jelly> emacs bindings or DEATH
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1416 [17:33:36] <jelly> basically the only thing grml.org does wrong is default zsh to vi bindings, everything else is perfect (including having zsh as the shell)
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1426 [17:50:03] <n4dir> not if you don't really know zsh. It is my main reason to not use it ...
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1430 [17:51:38] <n4dir> on a live iso i really would expect the default standard to be used, but that might be me only
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1437 [17:57:11] <jelly> if you know bash well enough to use the things that are different, you'll also know how to run it
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1454 [18:11:20] <GNU\colossus> zsh is overrated
1455 [18:11:45] <GNU\colossus> the time people sink into setting up that thing with shit that makes everything slow is ridiculous. even the frontend kids at $lastjob
1456 [18:11:56] <GNU\colossus> and then they wanted to tell gramps here about there latest achievements
1457 [18:12:03] <GNU\colossus> only to be STRICKEN DOWN BY THE BASH
1458 [18:12:09] <GNU\colossus> because you can't kill the bash
1459 [18:12:40] <GNU\colossus> (replaced-url
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1464 [18:16:01] <oxek> I still don't know what the point of zsh is
1465 [18:16:09] *** Joins: gamrix (~gamrix@replaced-ip )
1466 [18:16:10] <oxek> but then again, I've just been using bash for my whole linux life
1467 [18:17:09] <oxek> I think I should check it out though
1468 [18:17:10] <jelly> it has z in the name, thus, better
1469 [18:17:10] *** Joins: Romarain (~Romarain@replaced-ip )
1470 [18:17:29] <ratrace> zettabyte shell
1471 [18:17:42] <oxek> I think last I attempted to try it, it put me through some interactive setup where I had no idea what to answer and messed stuff up
1472 [18:17:43] <jelly> (it was significantly better when bash failed at programmable completions)
1473 [18:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1028
1474 [18:18:29] <oxek> ΩSH or ωsh?
1475 [18:18:31] <jelly> today, tho, probably not worth to bother if you like bash enough
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1477 [18:19:37] <oxek> I don't like nor dislike bash, for me it's just always been there and I just used it
1478 [18:20:16] <oxek> which is the typical case (for me) of completely missing out on something that would make my life simpler, or learning something useful
1479 [18:20:29] *** Joins: dtcrshr (~dtcrshr@replaced-ip )
1480 [18:20:47] <oxek> like when I first had mandrake (mandriva) linux and did not bother to check out other distros
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1482 [18:21:20] <jelly> sometimes it's handy to glob-complete files newer than one day instead of having to run find
1483 [18:22:01] <jelly> that's about the only useful thing I don't know how to bash
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1485 [18:22:53] <oxek> I just did a very simple online search on zsh, and everything seems to revolve around something called oh-my-zsh
1486 [18:23:28] <jelly> oh-my-zsh is a remote execution disaster waiting to happen
1487 [18:23:31] <oxek> which is not packaged in debian
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1489 [18:24:01] <jelly> you pull a ton of code from some github and let it run inside your shell
1490 [18:24:46] <oxek> which is not that different from pulling code from github, and having it run in my vim, or tmux, or ...
1491 [18:24:52] <Ede|Popede> oh-my-zsh sounds like omgubuntu
1492 [18:25:07] <oxek> yeah, the oh-my-zsh name is a bit cringy
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1494 [18:26:07] <oxek> the actual question I have then: is it fine to explore zsh, as packaged in debian, without ever touching oh-my-zsh?
1495 [18:26:23] <oxek> or is this oh-my-zsh pretty much a requirement nowadays
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1497 [18:27:05] <Ede|Popede> it's always worth to see an alternative
1498 [18:27:17] <dff> hi all, ive done some research and ive come to the following conclusion on how to partition, format and mount a drive, all available space. replaced-url
1499 [18:27:24] <dff> does it look correct?
1500 [18:28:09] <oxek> dff: looks really weird, especially since it's a VM image
1501 [18:28:39] <dff> oxek: you mean the partitions on /dev/vda?
1502 [18:28:52] <ratrace> out of order partitions are yucky
1503 [18:28:57] <dff> the vm spawned like that
1504 [18:29:02] <ratrace> also where did 2-13 go
1505 [18:29:04] <dff> does it matter+
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1507 [18:29:09] <dff> no one knows
1508 [18:29:27] <oxek> yeah, the /dev/vda just looks weird
1509 [18:29:40] <dff> i agree, but does it matter?
1510 [18:29:44] <oxek> bad order, non-existent numbers, having both BIOS boot and EFI, ...
1511 [18:30:12] <ratrace> both bios and efi ain't bad for a generic, boot-me-anywhere system
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1514 [18:30:24] <ratrace> dff: my OCD would never allow this on our disks
1515 [18:30:35] <ratrace> even if it "works" ... it's not normal, no.
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1517 [18:30:52] <dff> my doesnt either, but my inability to do anything about it is nonexistent
1518 [18:30:58] <dff> err
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1520 [18:31:07] <oxek> dff: it will likely work, but if something goes wrong it might create a headache to debug or troubleshoot or fix
1521 [18:31:09] <dff> that came out wrong, but you understand im sure
1522 [18:31:14] <ratrace> we landed on the moon. shirley, you can rebuild the vm.
1523 [18:31:35] <oxek> and for /dev/sda "Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes" is not ideal either
1524 [18:31:36] <dff> wouldnt i need to boot from another system do reorder?
1525 [18:31:45] <dff> do=to
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1528 [18:32:09] <dff> and wouldnt i need console access during boot?
1529 [18:32:12] <oxek> especially since it is an ssd
1530 [18:32:32] <jelly> dff, at work we do each VM with two disks: first disk 1GB with one partition for /boot and boot loader. Second disk without ANY partitions for LVM
1531 [18:33:27] <dff> we need to accept im a novice and take baby steps :)
1532 [18:33:35] <jelly> this makes it easy to resize the size of the disk, the LV, and the filesystem without a reboot, all online
1533 [18:33:55] <dff> i have very limited experience is successfully playing with partition and disks
1534 [18:34:09] <dff> in*
1535 [18:34:12] <jelly> also, maybe you don't need to boot the VM in UEFI mode. Go with BIOS boot and have one less partition
1536 [18:34:28] <dff> my goal is just to add the other disk :(
1537 [18:34:32] <jelly> or have just one partition
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1539 [18:35:48] * jelly did not even notice the new sda disk
1540 [18:36:10] <jelly> why are they not both vda and vdb?
1541 [18:39:39] <ratrace> one's probably virtio-scsi the other's just virtio
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1543 [18:40:24] <jelly> what's the difference and don't say -scsi
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1545 [18:40:49] <dff> one is the storage that came with the vm, the other is added block storage.
1546 [18:40:50] <ratrace> but that's.... the.... difference. :) interface
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1548 [18:41:30] <[O-O]> TheBigK02: i never used nextcloud so i cannot judge the performance, but both are built on php and next is fork of own soo.. idk
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1552 [18:46:30] <jelly> dff, the disk is already added. You don't have to partition it at all if you plan to just use the whole space
1553 [18:46:50] <jelly> it's okay to use /dev/sda directly
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1555 [18:47:33] <dff> jelly: doesnt it need one partition and be formated?
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1561 [18:51:06] <dff> it being /dev/sda
1562 [18:51:36] <jelly> it does not
1563 [18:51:55] <jelly> need a partition. You need a filesystem, and it can be on the whole disk
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1565 [18:52:30] <jelly> partition slice a single disk into pieces if those pieces have to be used for different things, like a boot loader
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1573 [18:59:48] <dff> okey, so i only need to format?
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1576 [19:00:34] <dff> i tried to partition disks on my OVH VPS and look how that turned out.
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1582 [19:02:48] <Ede|Popede> did you use a burning software for the task?
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1588 [19:05:44] <dff> it's why i had to move to cloud hosting. It's what happens when i have a terminal with root
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1592 [19:06:31] <dff> i shouldn't be allowed neear computers
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1598 [19:08:30] <cws> dff: Are you why OVH burned down?
1599 [19:08:30] <Ede|Popede> welcome to the club. the pauli effect?
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1620 [19:34:53] <abff> cws ovh burned down where?
1621 [19:35:22] <sney> france
1622 [19:35:52] <ratrace> SBG more precisely as they have multiple DCs in france
1623 [19:35:55] <sney> strasbourg-2 is destroyed. 1 is partially damaged and 3 and 4 are ok but offline until next week
1624 [19:36:25] <sney> apparently ovh internal chats are full of cloud jokes. "look we migrated SBG2 to the cloud" building_on_fire.jpg
1625 [19:36:32] <ratrace> shipping containers turned into datacenters. no halon.
1626 [19:36:55] <cws> I always said OVH is a trash fire. I guess that was predictive.
1627 [19:37:06] <sney> halon is illegal in builds after a certain year they tell me
1628 [19:37:28] <abff> sney: yikes
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1630 [19:37:48] <cws> Yes, but halon has been replaced with a different chemical.
1631 [19:37:56] <jhutchins> So just leave fire supression out entirely. Good plan! Like not wasting storage hardware on backups.
1632 [19:38:20] <cws> FM-200, Novec, etc.
1633 [19:38:37] <ratrace> hey, that's the modern hyperscale mentality. quality software? hardware? naaaah, just redeploy
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1638 [19:46:00] <oxek> OVH just transferred a lot of data into the cloud, that's all
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1649 [19:52:44] <ratrace> it didn't survive the firewall tho
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1651 [19:53:11] <ratrace> speaking of.... someone should write a new joke RFC for this year's april fools. smoke cloud computing.
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1691 [20:21:40] <abff> After the devastation of the Popcorn Kernel epidemic, we've realised vape cloud computing might not be as safe as we thought.
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1850 [20:54:16] <oxek> jelly: do you have a nice zsh config file to share, so that I can base my learning on something, or a link to a good file and decent guide?
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1863 [20:59:45] <mixfix41> oxek: klaatu from gnuworldorder ep. 391 goes over zsh if you are interest to you replaced-url
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1865 [21:00:10] <mixfix41> he doesnt use it personally
1866 [21:00:18] <oxek> I am interested in any good starting point.
1867 [21:00:28] <mixfix41> id say its pretty good
1868 [21:00:44] <mixfix41> his main website its not far its a recent episode
1869 [21:02:11] <greycat> /topic #zsh might have starting points
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1874 [21:03:16] <greycat> Perhaps make a list of all the things you wanted to do in bash, and couldn't, and then ask #zsh how to do them in zsh.
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1885 [21:09:28] <jelly> oxek, starting point is enable the completion and use it, probably
1886 [21:10:06] <jelly> my setup has 20+ years of cruft
1887 [21:10:44] <oxek> fair points
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1890 [21:15:29] <ratrace> jelly: was saying that earlier, that probably isn't Debian any more, what you have there :)
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1894 [21:20:14] <jelly> it's the essence of debian
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1896 [21:24:29] <ratrace> the essence of debian is in ubuntu too :)
1897 [21:24:52] <shtrb> what ?!
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1899 [21:25:02] <ratrace> the essence of debian is in ubuntu too.
1900 [21:25:28] <ratrace> debian spice. it flows in ubuntu as well.
1901 [21:25:37] <shtrb> oh , that I can get
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1903 [21:25:55] <shtrb> I read it as ubuntu spice flows in debian
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1905 [21:27:20] <ratrace> well... apt search --names-only ubuntu-\* :)
1906 [21:27:35] <ratrace> some of it drips back :)
1907 [21:27:58] <shtrb> wtf
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1909 [21:30:29] <ratrace> jokes aside, if there's effectively two debians... one installed fresh and one upgraded from previous release(s) ... isn't that like derivatives.
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1911 [21:30:58] <greycat> I'd say it's a much smaller divergence than most derivatives do.
1912 [21:31:37] <ratrace> usrmerge is pretty big divergence if you ask me
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1924 [21:43:03] <antto> ,v kicad
1925 [21:43:04] <judd> Package: kicad on amd64 -- jessie: 0.20140622+bzr4027-3; stretch: 4.0.5+dfsg1-4; stretch-backports: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 5.0.2+dfsg1-1; stretch-backports-sloppy: 5.1.6+dfsg1-1~bpo9+1; buster-backports: 5.1.9+dfsg1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.1.9+dfsg1-1; sid: 5.1.9+dfsg1-1
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1983 [22:40:01] <Logg> anyone know what modprobes I have to probe to connect my firewire mini dv camera from the year 2000
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1987 [22:45:19] <jhutchins> !webcam
1988 [22:45:19] <dpkg> For webcam device support in Debian, ask me about <gspca>, <uvcvideo>. See also <quickcam>, <ov51x-jpeg>, <ov511>, <m560x-driver>, <w9968cf>, <pwc>, <sn9c20x>. replaced-url
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1998 [22:56:30] <shtrb> Logg, you still have firewire port in your laptop ?
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2000 [22:57:24] <Logg> shtrb, the motherboard is from 2013, so definitely one of the last computers to have firewire onboard. FX-9370 is still a very modern CPU.
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2003 [22:58:30] <Logg> About to give up and just capture s-video honestly. Have tried different cables, different computers, 3 different firewire devices. Not having any luck today doing anything with firewire.
2004 [22:58:52] <shtrb> Did you check if the camera is seen at all ovre the firewire ?
2005 [22:59:26] <jmcnaught> ,i dvgrab
2006 [22:59:28] <judd> Package dvgrab (video, optional) in buster/amd64: grab digital video data via IEEE1394 and USB links. Version: 3.5+git20160707.1.e46042e-1; Size: 129.8k; Installed: 354k; Homepage: replaced-url
2007 [22:59:42] <Logg> it doesn't get a device file, and dmesg doesn't say anything about it either. dvgrab says "no camera exists"
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2009 [23:00:42] <shtrb> Logg, duck duck go mention to unblock and load ohci1394, sbp2, dv1394, raw1394, and video1394 modules
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2012 [23:01:24] <Logg> I think it's old info. modprobe doesn't find most of those & it seems like replaced-url
2013 [23:03:12] *** Joins: keiser (~keiser@replaced-ip )
2014 [23:03:12] <Logg> I tried on a Real Macintosh, the old G5, it doesn't see any firewire devices either, even firewire hard drives, so, I figure firewire is just cursed today in this house
2015 [23:03:34] <jmcnaught> Tried different camera?
2016 [23:03:34] <shtrb> Maybe to try to boot debian jessie / wheezy (from that era) ?
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2018 [23:05:36] <Logg> What's the latest Debian compiled for powerpc? :-\
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2020 [23:06:40] <greycat> !ppc
2021 [23:06:40] <dpkg> PowerPC is a <RISC> architecture (replaced-url
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2025 [23:13:11] <Logg> it seems that powerpc is still a supported architecture... neat.
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2029 [23:15:51] <Zauberfisch> good morning
2030 [23:16:21] <Zauberfisch> I have a question that is not directly a debian question, but please permitt me to ask it anyway, not sure where else to ask
2031 [23:16:38] <Zauberfisch> so I've setup a mosquitto server with ssl
2032 [23:17:19] <Zauberfisch> the certificate is created by certbot and resides in /etc/letsencrypt/live/foo.bar/
2033 [23:17:29] <Zauberfisch> according to this: replaced-url
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2035 [23:17:46] <Zauberfisch> I can just specify the cert and key file in the config of mosquitto
2036 [23:18:02] <Zauberfisch> but as far as I can tell, the mosquitto user does not have read access to the key file
2037 [23:18:17] <Zauberfisch> so, my question is, why is it working anyway?
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2039 [23:19:21] <imMute> Zauberfisch: are you sure SSL is actually working and that it's using that key/certificate? how are you determining that mosquitto doesn't have access to that file? could it be that mosquitto starts as root (which can read them) and then drops to the other user after startup?
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2041 [23:20:00] <Zauberfisch> hmm, fair point, I'm not actually sure that mosquitto is using ssl. I'm not sure how to verify that either
2042 [23:20:11] <Zauberfisch> but, when I put in a wrong path, then mosquitto will not start
2043 [23:20:27] <Zauberfisch> so it does check the file, and only if it exists, mosquitto will start
2044 [23:21:12] <Zauberfisch> mosquit+ 2333 0.1 1.1 8936 5524 ? Ss 08:05 1:20 /usr/sbin/mosquitto -c /etc/mosquitto/mosquitto.conf
2045 [23:21:14] <Zauberfisch> (ps aux)
2046 [23:21:37] <Zauberfisch> so that would indicate to me that the musquitto process is running under it's own user
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2048 [23:21:42] <jhutchins> ,i mosquito
2049 [23:21:43] <judd> No package named 'mosquito' was found in buster/amd64.
2050 [23:21:52] <jhutchins> ,i mosquitto
2051 [23:21:53] <judd> Package mosquitto (net, optional) in buster/amd64: MQTT version 3.1/3.1.1 compatible message broker. Version: 1.5.7-1+deb10u1; Size: 155.1k; Installed: 361k; Homepage: replaced-url
2052 [23:22:03] <imMute> Zauberfisch: but it might have *started* as root. alot of server programs do that.
2053 [23:22:10] <Zauberfisch> oh
2054 [23:22:15] <Zauberfisch> good point
2055 [23:22:19] <Zauberfisch> let me check that
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2057 [23:22:26] <ratrace> The Alot is a good server program.
2058 [23:23:28] <Zauberfisch> ok, so the systemd file does not contain a user
2059 [23:23:41] <Zauberfisch> would that indicate that it starts as root and mosquitto itself downgrade itself?
2060 [23:24:02] <ratrace> systemd services start as root unless otherwise specified in the service unit
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