People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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18 [00:21:42] <Unit193> You may wish to use umode +R to prevent unregged users from PM'ing you.
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23 [00:25:50] <setuid> Ah good point
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27 [00:30:00] <jhutchins> abrotman: In channel.
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126 [02:43:29] <dannylee> LXDE and Gnome are the best that Debian has...KDE is a weeny...KDE want a password every time i do any thing...the screensaver work with LXDE with no problem...LXDE just might be G0D...
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128 [02:48:57] <dvs> !start a de war
129 [02:48:57] <dpkg> Emacs blows goats!
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133 [02:57:54] <dasunt> If you are bored, I'm looking for a nice way to host VMs on a debian server. Ideally with a web interface as well as command line options
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135 [02:58:48] <sney> you pretty much just described proxmox
136 [02:59:18] <dasunt> That's what I'm evaluating right now.
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138 [03:00:33] <dasunt> However, it does not play that nicely with wifi so far.
139 [03:01:01] <sney> it's what I use as the hypervisor for my home stuff these days. no major complaints.
140 [03:01:22] <dasunt> My AP should support WDS, but when I try the typical howtos, things break.
141 [03:01:43] <sney> if proxmox did something weird with wifi support, it's a kernel thing, so you'd need to ask in ##proxmox as that's where most of their customizations live.
142 [03:01:57] <dasunt> I may wander over there.
143 [03:02:22] <dasunt> Admittedly, vm hosts sharing a wifi network is not a standard config for some reason. :D
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146 [03:04:50] <sney> could always pci passthrough your wifi nic to a debian guest, and use it as the router for whatever instances need to talk to other wifi hosts
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149 [03:08:49] <longshot> What's the "right" way to tell systemd to clear the screen on logout?
150 [03:11:10] <genr8_> dasunt, the concept requires the host to be the wifi host, and make a virtual network for the guests. the guests cannot use wifi.
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153 [03:15:13] <dasunt> genr8_: I discovered that. It seems complicated by the fact that without WDS, the AP will only allow one MAC address from the wifi card.
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174 [03:46:42] <qih> I like the 'dpkg' bots, cool feature 8-)
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176 [03:47:45] <qih> I am using XFCE4.12 on Debian Buster, and want to install Simplified Language input support. What is the most reliable method? Gnome-Chinese or Google's Pinyin method?
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180 [03:48:52] <qih> I think last time I configured ZH_Simplified, was on Ubuntu 18, using: replaced-url
181 [03:49:49] <sney> if that worked on ubuntu 18, the same thing should be fine in buster
182 [03:50:05] <sney> ,i fcitx-googlepinyin
183 [03:50:08] <judd> Package fcitx-googlepinyin (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Fcitx wrapper for Google Pinyin IM engine. Version: 0.1.6-4; Size: 11.9k; Installed: 65k; Homepage: replaced-url
184 [03:50:50] <qih> sney: Thanks, I'll run with it +1
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195 [04:09:21] <qih> If I wanted the last XFCE, which is ver 4.16 which is out today, can I 'apt remove/purge xfce4' and reinstall using a .tar.gz or is it more complex than that?
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202 [04:20:13] <sney> more complex. large software suites like desktop environments don't backport easily.
203 [04:20:58] <sney> 4.16 is in debian bullseye, which is the current 'testing' branch. bullseye will be released as debian 11 sometime later this year.
204 [04:21:03] <qih> Ah right, no worries, just checked Debian Packages, and XFCE_Meta has been moved to Testing.
205 [04:21:14] <qih> What sney said 8-)
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224 [04:44:35] <qih> sney: That method worked fine, FCITX on Debian, using Google-Pinyin, done!
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436 [04:59:27] -debhelper- Channel locked temporarily due to flood, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause :-)
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503 [05:08:13] <pankaj> I have uninstalled 'network-manager' and 'wpa-supplicant' and wlp3s0 is up DORMANT.... Trying to use iwctl to connect to wireless network and everytime I do 'station wlp3s0 connect ESSID' it says : 'Operation is already in progress' or something like that.
504 [05:08:30] <pankaj> Restarted iwd and 'systemd-resolved' and even restarted the system itself but no results
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542 [05:58:27] <pankaj> Sorry, I was disconnected. While using 'iwctl' to connect to wireless network I am getting following notification while connecting to ESSID : 'Operation already in progress'
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553 [06:07:23] <isapgswell> what the default opencl in a multigpu scenario?
554 [06:07:31] <isapgswell> intel + nvidia
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580 [07:08:59] <jsync> If I install without selecting a mirror, how do I later install packages available in tasksel upon setting up archive sources.list?
581 [07:09:58] <jsync> I'm logged in at a command line.
582 [07:10:09] <pankaj> Sorry, I was disconnected. While using 'iwctl' to connect to wireless network I am getting following notification while connecting to ESSID : 'Operation already in progress'
583 [07:10:58] <wsky> maybe there is another process spawned doing the same thing
584 [07:11:05] <wsky> see your process list
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589 [07:19:21] <jsync> I logged in as root, & "tasksel" isn't pulling up for some reason with a fresh debian wheezy install.
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596 [07:25:57] <jsync> I think it's because my hotspot tethering doesn't work without all the other packages installed to support that.
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598 [07:34:13] <alex11> ...wheezy?
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600 [07:40:41] <abff> wheezy became oldstable in 2015 x_x
601 [07:40:56] <abff> long term support ended in 2018
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618 [08:05:03] * craigevil uses Lenny best version of Debian ever :)
619 [08:06:16] <wsky> take your roofies
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622 [08:09:39] <isapgswell> is that possible to loopback: LOCAL, UNKNOWN and PARANOID
623 [08:09:41] <isapgswell> ?
624 [08:10:00] <isapgswell> like in /etc/hosts, 127.0.0.1 LOCAL
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626 [08:10:23] <isapgswell> 127.0.0.1 UNKNOWN
627 [08:10:32] <isapgswell> 127.0.0.1 PARANOID
628 [08:10:58] <hegemoOn> morning, i often have the feeling that when i use a pref file to define i want a package from backport, it doesnt work much
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632 [08:23:29] <nkuttler> hegemoOn: pref file doesn't work?
633 [08:24:19] <themill> (what did you try, in what way doesn't it work etc etc)
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636 [08:29:14] <hegemoOn> do i need to specify -t buster-backports when using pref file ?
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652 [08:49:12] <jelly> hegemoOn, hard to say. pastebin your file and output of "apt-cache policy packagename" and "apt-cache policy"
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702 [09:56:25] <NetTerminalGene> guys, pulseaudio eats cpu around %5 even when there is no job for it. what should i do?
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706 [09:57:36] <__marco> Morning. Any 2-factor application for debian? The only one I found is authy
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709 [09:59:31] <apollo13> __marco: what would you like to use, you can use any totp app
710 [09:59:44] <apollo13> you can probably also add support for yubikeys aetc…
711 [09:59:58] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: and how much cpu does it eat when it does something, eg. audio playing?
712 [10:00:39] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: same amount O.O
713 [10:01:20] <wyre> how can I list all *files* owned by a package?
714 [10:01:22] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: you could try killing it and restarting it. pulseaudio -k followed by pulseaudio -D in a terminal, as your user
715 [10:01:32] <wyre> using dpkg -L I can see the directories but I'd like to see the files
716 [10:01:48] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: if it still consumes 5% ... dunno what else you can do. Is that some potato of a CPU there?
717 [10:02:07] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: no. there was no such problem before
718 [10:02:18] <ratrace> wyre: files are very much listed with dpkg -L except those that are post-install'ed or otherwise produced like dkms stuff
719 [10:02:22] <NetTerminalGene> i am suspecting vlc did something
720 [10:02:29] <ratrace> possibru
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738 [10:24:40] <__marco> apollo13, I do have a yubikey, I also want another option to be able to login to <any-service> even when I forgot the yubikey at home. But nothing that run on the phone, I am looking for a pc application
739 [10:25:08] <apollo13> __marco: totp is supported by most password managers
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759 [10:48:46] <Guest31144> Hi everyone, i need a help on my Debian Sid
760 [10:50:23] <Guest31144> I couldn't update my Debian Sid since March 03.
761 [10:51:18] <avu> !debian-next
762 [10:51:18] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
763 [10:51:29] <avu> Guest31144: ^
764 [10:53:00] <Guest31144> I used to update my Debian Sid twice a week, but on last I've got a erro message: gnustep-base-runtime : Depends: gnustep-base-common (= 1.27.0-3) but 1.26.0-7 is to be installed, libgnustep-base1.27 : Depends: gnustep-base-common (= 1.27.0-3) but 1.26.0-7 is to be installed, E: Broken packages
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766 [10:54:30] <ratrace> Guest31144: running Debian Sid assumes you have the knowledge fixing issues like that and didn't have to ask.
767 [10:55:03] <Guest31144> I know RTFM
768 [10:56:00] <ratrace> no, not really. it meant to say you shouldn't run Sid if you don't understand that error message. in particular, Sid's regularly broken, there's no guarantees that one update will be clean with satisfiable dependencies.
769 [10:56:22] <ratrace> also, offtopic here. please look at the factoid ava posted for you.
770 [10:57:46] <ratrace> *avu, sorry
771 [10:57:56] <__marco> apollo13, thanks, found it.
772 [10:58:45] <Guest31144> Thank you, ratrace and dpkg. I spend one year on Debian Sid, without any big issue, and I still love it.
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793 [11:13:42] <avu> having luck in the past is unfortunately no guarantee for luck in the present or future :)
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885 [13:08:50] <ratrace> Mmmh-hmm. I welcome this. #EnRustTrixie2025! replaced-url
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906 [13:40:34] <deadrom> need toinstall debian from iso on a machine with no internet connection. standard server installation, mabye apache or nginx, maybe xfce. which ISO do I go for?
907 [13:41:52] <jolt> deadrom: I would get one from replaced-url
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909 [13:42:16] <jolt> Oh, no servers on that on, darn.
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918 [13:46:53] <jolt> deadrom: replaced-url
919 [13:47:16] <jolt> (or usb/netboot for that matter)
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921 [13:52:33] <deadrom> jolt: uploading 3.7G to that site would be my last resort.
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932 [14:06:09] <TheBigK02> linux without internet... is painful ... atleast if u have no local mirror or something
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949 [14:24:47] <mspe> TheBigK02: team local mirrors \o/
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957 [14:31:14] <TheBigK02> mspe: :D
958 [14:31:34] <mspe> TheBigK02: replaced-url
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972 [14:35:54] <tinga> Hi. I'm running stretch, currently without pulseaudio running. I have problems witch echoes, while using headphone + external mic, and it's clear that the echo is not acoustic but generated electronically.
973 [14:36:43] <tinga> When I unplug and replug the headphone + mic, there's about a 1 second span where the mic sound is louder and unfiltered, and then something kicks in that apparently processes it.
974 [14:36:43] <jelly> mirrors have gotten a bit big
975 [14:36:54] <jelly> 2021/03/09 10:57:29 [6688] Total file size: 1420461383853 bytes
976 [14:36:55] <tinga> Any idea what that could be?
977 [14:37:31] <tinga> (Here's what I'm using to listen to my mic: arecord -t raw -f dat -r 22050 -c 1 | cat | aplay -t raw -f dat -r 22050 -c 1 -)
978 [14:37:53] <mspe> jelly: yeah I only sync selected releases and architectures
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1009 [14:58:42] <TheBigK02> yeah, we also sync only what we need pretty much.
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1012 [14:59:15] <TheBigK02> i feel like its a duty for the community to use ur own mirror... especially when u run a lot of instances
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1014 [15:00:23] <ratrace> or at least apt cacher ng thingy
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1029 [15:07:06] <TheBigK02> ratrace: agreed
1030 [15:07:34] <TheBigK02> private i dont mirror ... its not worth it... for 2 instances... i have probably less traffic when i download directly :D
1031 [15:07:50] <jelly> community doody
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1033 [15:08:24] <TheBigK02> I was stumbeling today on TRIM ... im quite confused why its not activated by default... any idea?
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1035 [15:08:28] <jelly> I really can't tell whether having a local mirror saves or wastes bandwidth
1036 [15:08:56] <TheBigK02> i would guess for around 2 instances it will save bandwith... without knowing it obviously
1037 [15:09:00] <jelly> TheBigK02, it can affect performance, best do it on a weekly basis
1038 [15:09:04] <TheBigK02> 200 i mean, sorry
1039 [15:09:11] <TheBigK02> yes, thats what im doing
1040 [15:09:20] <TheBigK02> but why is the timer not activated by default
1041 [15:09:26] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1042 [15:09:49] <jelly> how does debian know that you have an SSD
1043 [15:10:06] <TheBigK02> cat /sys/block/nvme1n1/queue/rotational
1044 [15:10:31] <TheBigK02> btrfs does know it as well... why not debian
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1047 [15:13:34] <TheBigK02> would u recommend when using cryptsetup, using the encryption support of the ssd? u could use it if u wanted it, right? I never did it. im just curious
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1059 [15:21:57] <TheBigK02> replaced-url
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1090 [15:57:15] <tcurdt> I have something overwriting my custom /etc/resolv.conf ... any pointers on how to find out which process is doing this?
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1093 [15:58:52] <jstolarek> I'm looking for a good introductory-level tutorial on debianizing packages. Any recommendations?
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1095 [15:59:45] <jstolarek> good = explains what is actually being done and why
1096 [16:00:06] <jstolarek> and possibly gives workflow tips
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1125 [16:13:47] <Ede|Popede> !packaging
1126 [16:13:47] <dpkg> Visit replaced-url
1127 [16:13:54] <Ede|Popede> !package basics
1128 [16:13:54] <dpkg> "Basics of the Debian package management system" is a chapter of the Debian GNU/Linux <FAQ>, which describes the Debian package format. replaced-url
1129 [16:14:07] <Ede|Popede> jstolarek, how does this sound?
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1132 [16:15:53] <tcurdt> Maybe I need to change /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf to set my resolv.conf ... that kind of makes sense
1133 [16:16:43] <cws> tcurdt: Are you using dhclient manually, or are you using /etc/network/interfaces?
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1135 [16:17:48] <tcurdt> fresh cloud server install with buster on it ... and it seems they use dhclient to configure the interfaces
1136 [16:18:14] <cws> Ew. Why do cloud providers feel the need to mangle default installs?
1137 [16:18:15] <jelly> tcurdt, is there any mention of resolvconf in the changed file?
1138 [16:18:27] <jelly> tcurdt, or a comment like
1139 [16:18:29] <jelly> # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND -- YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN
1140 [16:18:56] <tcurdt> nope ... just nameservers
1141 [16:19:14] <jelly> weird, and sounds custom
1142 [16:19:38] <jelly> is it a real file or a symlink to someplace else?
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1144 [16:24:35] <wigums> tcurdt i cheat and make resolv.conf immutable... chattr +i makes it so nothing can write to it
1145 [16:25:00] <tcurdt> the last resort :)
1146 [16:25:16] <tcurdt> right now I want to try supersede in the dhclient.confg
1147 [16:25:37] <tcurdt> just not sure how to trigger the re-write
1148 [16:25:54] <tcurdt> I assume there are leases involved
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1156 [16:32:07] <hemebond> Does anyone know if it's possible to use fontconfig to force Firefox to try a Japanese font before a regular latin font? Japanese text in web pages are difficult-to-read bitmap fonts because they're not marked up correctly. Wondering if I can work around the problem. It used to look okay.
1157 [16:32:19] <genghiz> Guys, is one allowed to have multiple override files overriding similar settings in systemd?
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1163 [16:35:19] <tcurdt> the dhclient supersede approach works .... just not sure why it adds a "." after the domain-search
1164 [16:35:36] <tcurdt> is that how it is supposed to be?
1165 [16:36:10] <tcurdt> it's "search service.fsn1.consul." instead of "search service.fsn1.consul"
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1167 [16:37:22] <jelly> that's not an issue, every domain name has an implicit "." at the end
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1169 [16:37:37] <tcurdt> yes, I figured
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1171 [16:38:31] <tcurdt> just never seen it like that in a resolv.conf before ... maybe I haven't check enough over the past years :-p
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1220 [17:18:58] <taylan> hi, I have a Debian VM running in VMWare Workstation, and updated from Buster to Bullseye. I used to be able to remap AltGr (right-alt on German keyboard) to Ctrl via the line 'xkeymap.keycode.108 = "0x11d"' in the .vmx file, but this doesn't seem to work anymore. does anyone know something about this?
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1223 [17:20:32] <taylan> I can't seem to do it with xmodmap or a custom .xkb file read by xkbcomp either, not sure if because of VMWare or because of Wayland
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1229 [17:23:28] <jstolarek> @Ede|Popede: thanks. I've seen some tutorials on debian wiki and they were really poor. Your link has some stuff I haven't seen yet so let me check it out and if it's not what I'm lookin for I'll come back complaining :-)
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1369 [19:37:45] <Sayona> Hi, I am tried to install nginx + php-fpm from "deb replaced-url
1370 [19:37:55] <Sayona> anyone have any idea?
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1374 [19:39:42] <sney> Sayona: ondrej's repo has its own support tracker, replaced-url
1375 [19:40:06] <Sayona> what is the best way to install multiple php version?
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1378 [19:41:07] <sney> separate containers/vms, if we're being honest. but if this is for a development system, sury may still be your best option, but that doesn't change #debian's policy about supporting software from outside of debian.
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1380 [19:41:50] <Sayona> ah :)
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1393 [19:51:22] <fourstepper> is it possible to boot up debian from a disk without access to the console or monitor? Just flash the ISO to the disk and go?
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1404 [19:57:42] <sney> fourstepper: there's an option in the installer to continue the installation over ssh, but you need to start it locally.
1405 [19:58:05] <sney> fourstepper: maaaaybe the -standard live image would do what you want, but I don't remember offhand if it has ssh access or any other daemons turned on by default
1406 [19:58:38] <fourstepper> right - ideally I would love if it worked somehow automatically, like the ubuntu raspberry pi iso's
1407 [19:58:52] <sney> you can write a preseed for the installer to make it install non-interactively
1408 [19:59:04] <fourstepper> I like Debian more, but right now those make it so easy to teardown my pi's, reflash and reuse them..
1409 [19:59:10] <sney> also, if this is for a rpi, there are some semi-official debian rpi images
1410 [19:59:30] <sney> replaced-url
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1426 [20:25:42] <alex11> rsync -av / /media/alex/<id> works for a simple backup right?
1427 [20:26:06] <greycat> AT THE BARE MINIMUM you want to do something to stop it from recursing into /proc and /sys
1428 [20:26:17] <greycat> and /media, since that would be an infinite loop
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1433 [20:29:52] <alex11> --exclude= /proc /sys or something?
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1435 [20:30:58] <greycat> You have not provided ANY details about your system, so what kind of answer do you expect to hear? You back up the things that you cannot easily replace. For most people that's /etc and /home.
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1437 [20:31:29] <greycat> If you think you need to "back up everything", then you do each file system. So you start by stating what you have as file systems. Just one big /? / and /home?
1438 [20:31:59] <greycat> Then you back up each one individually, using the option to prevent recursing across file system lines. Usually it's something like -xdev or -x.
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1458 [20:52:25] <leibniz> What uppp
1459 [20:52:53] <leibniz> I npm install flv.js
1460 [20:53:17] <leibniz> But when I <script src=flv.js> it’s not working
1461 [20:53:22] <leibniz> I have Debian 10
1462 [20:53:39] <leibniz> Any one around Togo e some advice?
1463 [20:55:48] <sney> you probably have to tell it to look in /usr/lib/nodejs somehow. #node.js may know more.
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1465 [20:56:39] <leibniz> Ok
1466 [20:56:50] <sney> or wait, /usr/lib/nodejs is for modules installed with apt. npm likely uses a different prefix.
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1472 [20:59:48] <leibniz> No on is on JavaScript or node.js
1473 [21:00:01] <leibniz> well I found there it’s kept with npm -g
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1475 [21:00:18] <leibniz> do I have to restart Apache of something after npm install flv.js
1476 [21:00:28] <leibniz> I mean
1477 [21:01:01] <greycat> I think the question you're asking is, "How do I make my web pages use the things that I installed with npm? I'm using apache."
1478 [21:01:16] <greycat> i have no idea what the answer is, but that seems to be the question.
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1480 [21:01:37] <sney> alis says there are 643 users in #node.js and you only found out about that channel 5 minutes ago. maybe be a little patient.
1481 [21:01:43] <leibniz> yea that is the questionn
1482 [21:02:09] <leibniz> no i stay with my debian crew
1483 [21:02:14] <leibniz> debian for life bro
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1485 [21:02:24] <leibniz> i don't like going to the javascript chumps for help
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1487 [21:02:41] <greycat> *plonk*
1488 [21:02:43] <leibniz> greycat
1489 [21:02:43] <sney> "debian for life" but you're using a separate package manager and expecting people in here to know about it
1490 [21:02:51] <leibniz> well
1491 [21:02:53] <leibniz> ok
1492 [21:03:14] <wintergirl> this isn't a debian question
1493 [21:03:21] <leibniz> look
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1496 [21:04:13] <leibniz> i'm using debian 10 stretch
1497 [21:04:25] <leibniz> i pressed npm install flv.js
1498 [21:04:29] <leibniz> or sudo
1499 [21:04:31] <leibniz> whatnot
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1502 [21:05:00] <leibniz> i figured there was a debian specific procedure i'd have to run
1503 [21:05:26] <beelzebuzz> those javascript chumps would probably know
1504 [21:06:02] <oxek> `sudo npm` is just asking for trouble
1505 [21:06:11] <leibniz> i agree
1506 [21:06:14] <leibniz> it seems like magic
1507 [21:06:16] <leibniz> i don't like it
1508 [21:06:33] <leibniz> and i will never like git hub
1509 [21:06:37] <leibniz> it just doesn't set right with me
1510 [21:08:30] <jmcnaught> leibniz: The npm(1) man page says "See npm help 5 npm-folders to learn about where npm puts stuff." and mentions two modes, global and local. Probably a good place to start.
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1512 [21:13:27] <leibniz> ok
1513 [21:13:33] <leibniz> well i guess i went in head first
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1515 [21:13:40] <leibniz> i got the streaming bit to work on alpine so i was excited
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1517 [21:13:55] <leibniz> i have to figure out how to get npm to work on debian before i can use my own flv player
1518 [21:14:11] <leibniz> and now i found a good a article on github to learn it
1519 [21:14:17] <leibniz> better so the javascript bros didn't let me down
1520 [21:14:26] <leibniz> BUT
1521 [21:14:32] <leibniz> they didn't solve anything
1522 [21:14:38] <leibniz> they just gave me more paper work
1523 [21:14:46] <leibniz> it looks like it's going to be a tough one
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1525 [21:14:59] <sney> oddly enough, when learning how to do something new, the best approach is to start with the manual
1526 [21:15:11] <leibniz> agreed
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1528 [21:16:07] <leibniz> but trial and error is an effective method when learning something as well
1529 [21:16:13] *** mpmc is now known as HorrificShroud
1530 [21:16:38] <leibniz> the community on freenode has played an essential part in my learning process
1531 [21:17:20] <leibniz> and although it seems to be a burden to ASK you guys a question pertaining to javascript on a debian channel
1532 [21:17:23] <leibniz> it's really not
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1537 [21:20:07] <abff> this reminds me of the time I almost cared about pip
1538 [21:20:28] <abff> but then I installed the one program I wanted and forgot about it
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1571 [21:43:15] <rabbitnightmare> so I thought about switching over to debian or giving it a spin, question, how do I get the latest stable kernel kde etc?
1572 [21:43:45] <rabbitnightmare> everything seems insanely out of date
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1574 [21:43:56] <cws> Debian aims for stability, not shiny new.
1575 [21:44:15] <rabbitnightmare> and thats fine if the updates arent stable but they are
1576 [21:44:25] <rabbitnightmare> the updates to KDE and the Linux Kernel are for stability
1577 [21:44:36] <fourstepper> duh
1578 [21:44:41] <cws> Let's try again. Debian aims for stability, not shiny new.
1579 [21:44:45] <rabbitnightmare> the older version of KDE is quite unstable
1580 [21:44:59] <cws> Stability also includes not suddenly changing large swaths of the system in the middle of a release.
1581 [21:45:07] <rabbitnightmare> the new version while shiny and new is a stability update
1582 [21:45:07] <sney> debian provides newer kernels for stable releases in stable-backports. currently the same 5.10 is available in buster-backports as in unstable.
1583 [21:45:29] <rabbitnightmare> 5.11 is what I need for my 6800XT
1584 [21:45:39] <rabbitnightmare> 5.11.5 actually
1585 [21:45:52] <rabbitnightmare> the older kernal has issues with my hardware
1586 [21:45:56] <cws> rabbitnightmare: And a massive update in the middle of a release will no doubt affect a ton of other things, leading to changes that people do not want in the middle of a release.
1587 [21:46:08] <cws> That is part of "stability."
1588 [21:46:18] <rabbitnightmare> and thats fine but how do I add it to my install?
1589 [21:46:40] <sney> right now it looks like debian 11 (bullseye) will release with 5.10, though some patches from newer kernels may be backported to the debian package.
1590 [21:46:53] <rabbitnightmare> why so old when better updates are out?
1591 [21:47:02] <rabbitnightmare> that makes no sense to me
1592 [21:47:05] <sney> for newer than that, you'd have to build it yourself. (but building a debian kernel is a pretty easy/automatic process)
1593 [21:47:07] <cws> You seem to have a problem comprehending what's being said to you.
1594 [21:47:18] <rabbitnightmare> sney good to know
1595 [21:47:19] <cws> Which I believe is why you got run out of #archlinux as well.
1596 [21:47:22] <sney> read this section of the debian faq for more information: replaced-url
1597 [21:47:47] <greycat> The problem we have is that what Debian means by stable is COMPLETELY different from what most people mean by stable. Most people think it means "bug-free" or "doesn't crash". Debian thinks it means "does not change".
1598 [21:47:54] <rabbitnightmare> I didnt get run out I spoke the truth and yall couldnt handle it so please keep that out of this channel
1599 [21:48:00] * cws tried explaining that.
1600 [21:48:05] * cws moves on with his day.
1601 [21:48:28] <jmcnaught> rabbitnightmare: Debian freezes the versions of all packages in the repos every two years, fixes all the release critical bugs in those frozen packages, then a new Debian Stable is released. Stable sticks to the same versions for its entire lifecycle, with security fixes being backported.
1602 [21:48:38] <greycat> Debian 10 released with kde version whateverthefuck. That is the version of kde that it has. That version WILL. NOT. CHANGE.
1603 [21:48:51] <Urk> Any recommendations for a disk checker? I would like to make sure my disks don't have issues.
1604 [21:48:58] <rabbitnightmare> good to know
1605 [21:49:01] <greycat> When Debian 11 releases, it will have a different version. That version WILL. NOT. CHANGE.
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1607 [21:49:12] <cws> Urk: Any specific issue you're having?
1608 [21:50:20] <Urk> cws> With respect to my disks, its just checking things out because it is new, but the folder structure wasn't installed/preserved during the new Debian install. Also, the memory stick has consistently indicated something was left on it when umounting, but I have never done that.
1609 [21:50:56] <rabbitnightmare> cws if you could refrain from verbally abusing me I would greatly appreciate it, and I understand that you might not like what some have to say, but there is absolutely no need to bring that kind of drama wherever you seem to reside
1610 [21:51:09] <Urk> Its a new laptop under warranty so its good to check things out. The microphone is completely unsuable and I have submitted a warranty claim to Dell. So far they haven't responded, but they depend on their technical team in India to forward things.. . .
1611 [21:52:04] <rabbitnightmare> Urk is it one of their XPS Linux laptops?
1612 [21:52:18] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> yes
1613 [21:52:23] <rabbitnightmare> thanks for saving me money
1614 [21:52:32] <rabbitnightmare> system76 it is then
1615 [21:52:49] <Urk> Phenominal screen brightness, great case, great processing power, decent color gamut.
1616 [21:53:02] <rabbitnightmare> oh I am quite sure, Dell makes solid products
1617 [21:53:33] <rabbitnightmare> I have an older XPS Ubuntu thing here and the porcelain cracked
1618 [21:53:35] <cws> rabbitnightmare: I hate to tell you this, but being called out for your persistent behavior isn't abuse. It's feedback. You may not like that feedback, but not liking it doesn't make it false, abusive, or dramatic. Learn from this and become a better person.
1619 [21:53:54] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> Do not buy a System 76. It is significantly worse for a number of reasons. I have a new one sitting in the closet and there it will stay. They only support Ubuntu (Debian unstable). Additionally they do not participate in the shared Linux Software infrastructure, and didn't even know what it was when I contacted them.
1620 [21:54:00] <rabbitnightmare> I simply asked for help, cws, and got berated for it
1621 [21:54:05] <cws> I had a system76 once, never again.
1622 [21:54:09] <sney> !offtopic
1623 [21:54:10] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
1624 [21:54:46] <rabbitnightmare> so please, like sney said, refrain from abusing me
1625 [21:54:52] <Urk> Dell beats System 76 hands down, but there are issues with some of the hardware components because their stuff is built overseas. Unfortunately the new Stimulus bill puts a death sentence on future manufacturing in this country, and raises the minimum wage to $25/hr by 2025. Initially it will go to $15/hr, and its already signed by Lord Biden.
1626 [21:55:16] <cws> Oh god, take the politics somewhere else. Neptune is a good start.
1627 [21:55:17] <sney> Urk: that goes for you too, none of that has anything to do with debian support
1628 [21:55:57] <rabbitnightmare> cws please stop, you started this, I am asking nicely to stop
1629 [21:55:58] <Urk> sney> You are right, and I should have suggested moving it to #debian-offtopic.
1630 [21:56:14] <sney> rabbitnightmare: that goes for you too, if you want to fight with cws please take it to a pm
1631 [21:56:22] <rabbitnightmare> I dont want to fight
1632 [21:56:29] * cws has long moved on.
1633 [21:56:31] <sney> then stop bringing it up.
1634 [21:56:34] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> #debian-offtopic.
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1640 [22:02:26] <rabbitnightmare> is there a repository I can add for "unstable" newer versions of software or is that frowned upon in Debian?
1641 [22:02:59] <sney> only if you're already running testing/unstable. mixing unstable with stable is a quick way to break your OS
1642 [22:03:13] <wintergirl> not everyone in here is American and US politics is a snooze for most of us
1643 [22:03:17] <rabbitnightmare> and I completely understand that
1644 [22:04:00] <rabbitnightmare> sney so if I use d11 with unstable, I can at least compile later versions than whats even provided?
1645 [22:04:06] <sney> tbh if you want to use debian with new(er) software versions, you should probably just start with testing. read the replaced-url
1646 [22:04:14] <rabbitnightmare> testing
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1648 [22:04:20] <rabbitnightmare> right
1649 [22:05:11] <rabbitnightmare> I feel I can resolve a lot of issues myself, I am just testing things out on my shiny new pc, some of the hardware which has support in later versions of software, earlier software doesnt seem to support
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1651 [22:05:33] <sney> and yes, testing/unstable is how debian develops the next stable release, so 'compile later versions' is natively supported by the packaging tools.
1652 [22:06:08] <greycat> They're probably looking for buster-backports.
1653 [22:06:08] <rabbitnightmare> I take full responsibility if I brick my install lol
1654 [22:07:12] <sney> greycat: no desktop metas in backports
1655 [22:07:38] <sney> I appreciate the impulse to not recommend testing to newbies, but logically that doesn't really fit here
1656 [22:07:39] <greycat> Fair enough, you can't backport a Desktop Environment. Not sanely.
1657 [22:11:46] <Sayona> hey, why in debian nginx version is 1.4 ?
1658 [22:12:18] <sney> it's 1.14, because that was the stable nginx when buster was released.
1659 [22:12:35] <Urk> Would anyone know how to run the e2fsprogs test? I don't find a man page for it, and the instructions found at replaced-url
1660 [22:12:39] <sney> see replaced-url
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1662 [22:13:10] <sney> Urk: when looking at howtos on the internet, always check the date. that one is from 2006.
1663 [22:13:20] <sney> Urk: for hard drive testing, usually smartctl is all anyone needs.
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1665 [22:13:42] <Urk> sney> Thanks, overlooked it. e2sprogs is installed by default on my system, but there should be a man page for it.
1666 [22:13:44] <greycat> ,v nginx
1667 [22:13:45] <judd> Package: nginx on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u6; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u3; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; buster-security: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; bullseye: 1.18.0-6; sid: 1.18.0-6
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1669 [22:17:09] <Urk> sney> I tried running smartctl, and it won't detect my /nvme0n10*
1670 [22:17:22] <Urk> sney> It only detects devices in /dev
1671 [22:17:51] <cws> nvme* should be in /dev
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1675 [22:19:14] <Sayona> pfff
1676 [22:19:17] <rabbitnightmare> urk what do you get when you type lsblk?
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1679 [22:20:48] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> /nvme0n10* (* is referring to 1-6)
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1681 [22:21:04] <cws> Urk: That's a device node. It's not going to be in the root.
1682 [22:21:13] *** Joins: redbrass (~shawn@replaced-ip )
1683 [22:21:17] <rabbitnightmare> so it isn't showing something akin to /dev/nvme#n#?
1684 [22:21:31] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> No
1685 [22:21:44] <rabbitnightmare> then the drive will not mount properly
1686 [22:22:12] <Sayona> sucks
1687 [22:22:55] <rabbitnightmare> I have had several nvme drives do this and its not any specific distribution related issue
1688 [22:23:11] <rabbitnightmare> are you booting up in BIOS mode or EFI mode?
1689 [22:23:30] <Sayona> I think is stupid... nginx 1.8 + php7.4-fpm not working correctly in debian 10: replaced-url
1690 [22:23:43] <Sayona> if I put nginx1.4 it's works
1691 [22:24:05] <Urk> cws> That is what comes up when I run lsblk
1692 [22:24:14] <Urk> cws> How do I fix this problem?
1693 [22:24:14] <cws> pastebin the output of lsblk
1694 [22:24:20] <greycat> you should not have nginx 1.8 ins table.
1695 [22:24:40] <Sayona> hmm
1696 [22:24:43] <rabbitnightmare> Urk try pcie_aspm=of
1697 [22:24:48] <greycat> even oldstable has 1.10
1698 [22:24:56] <greycat> current stable has 1.14
1699 [22:24:59] <rabbitnightmare> see if after that it shows up in /dev
1700 [22:25:33] <Sayona> greycat, but is stupid 1.8 is stable
1701 [22:25:33] <rabbitnightmare> you may have to add pci=nomsi to kernel boot args
1702 [22:25:41] <Sayona> greycat, but is stupid 1.18 is stable
1703 [22:25:42] <Sayona> sorry
1704 [22:25:44] <greycat> NO RELEASE of Debian has nginx 1.8.
1705 [22:26:03] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> Is that the full command? If so, nothing happened, but no errors.
1706 [22:26:04] <rabbitnightmare> again this seems to be an ongoing issue with WD and Kingston NVME drives
1707 [22:26:05] <Sayona> O miss a 1 :) it's about 1.18
1708 [22:26:05] <greycat> Debian 11, which is not released yet, will have 1.18. Unless that changes by the release.
1709 [22:26:26] <rabbitnightmare> Urk in grub or whatever bootloader add pci=nomsi to kernel boot arguments
1710 [22:26:27] <greycat> Once again because people don't seem to read:
1711 [22:26:27] <Sayona> :((
1712 [22:26:30] <greycat> ,v nginx
1713 [22:26:31] <judd> Package: nginx on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6.2-5+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.6.2-5+deb8u6; stretch-security: 1.10.3-1+deb9u3; stretch: 1.10.3-1+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1.14.1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; buster-security: 1.14.2-2+deb10u3; bullseye: 1.18.0-6; sid: 1.18.0-6
1714 [22:26:41] <rabbitnightmare> Urk this works 50% of the time
1715 [22:26:49] <Urk> rabbitnightmare: This is what shows up on my screen replaced-url
1716 [22:27:18] <greycat> buster has 1.14. it was released with 1.14. that is the version that it has. that version will not change.
1717 [22:27:25] <rabbitnightmare> try ls /dev/nvme* and let me know the output
1718 [22:27:28] <cws> Urk: The device names listed are implicitly in /dev.
1719 [22:27:36] <sney> Urk: lsblk trims /dev from its output, but your device nodes are definitely in /dev. you didn't even look
1720 [22:27:50] <Sayona> greycat, yes but how about security?
1721 [22:27:51] <rabbitnightmare> yeah looks like it should work now
1722 [22:28:09] <Sayona> greycat, I can exploit 1.14
1723 [22:28:12] <greycat> security patches are backported to version 1.14
1724 [22:28:13] <sney> Sayona: debian stable packages are supported with security patches for the whole lifecycle.
1725 [22:28:31] <sney> 1.14 in debian is not upstream's vanilla 1.14. feel free to try that exploit.
1726 [22:28:53] <cws> Sayona: If you can point to a specific CVE, you can check it against what's been backported to stable's current version.
1727 [22:29:09] <Sayona> thanks
1728 [22:29:15] <Sayona> what do you use with debian apache?
1729 [22:29:50] <Urk> Not sure what I am missing here replaced-url
1730 [22:30:14] <cws> Urk: Have you tried `ls /dev/nvme0n1*`?
1731 [22:30:16] <sney> apache2 is considered the "default" due to popcon scores. I typically use nginx, but apache in one or two places where it's better supported by some application
1732 [22:30:29] <cws> Urk: Those devices are in /dev. Please read what's being said to you.
1733 [22:30:46] <Urk> Yeah, and it comes back with /dev/nvme0n1, but it doesn't show up with lsblk
1734 [22:30:46] <Sayona> sney, thanks
1735 [22:30:57] <rabbitnightmare> 320 updates wow
1736 [22:30:59] <cws> Urk: The asterisk is important.
1737 [22:31:21] <rabbitnightmare> switching over to testing and everything seems to work better now thanks for the help
1738 [22:31:22] <cws> lsblk does not print the '/dev' path name. It only prints the device name WITHIN /dev.
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1740 [22:32:07] <Urk> when running ls /dev/nvme0n1 then all nvme0n* shows up
1741 [22:32:10] <rabbitnightmare> yes it seems to be working and showing up
1742 [22:32:15] <cws> So what's the problem?
1743 [22:32:31] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> Wondering how come it doesnt show up with /dev in front of it though?
1744 [22:32:40] <rabbitnightmare> it is showing up
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1746 [22:32:44] <cws> Because lsblk is programmed to omit it.
1747 [22:32:54] <cws> There's no point to printing /dev, as every device it shows is in /dev.
1748 [22:32:54] <rabbitnightmare> if you continue to have issues I would add pci=nomsi to my linux bootloader arguments
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1751 [22:33:49] <Urk> Earlier someone provided me a script for recreating the missing folder structure, and I can't find it. I don't have the following: /documents, /pictures, /downloads, etc
1752 [22:33:54] <rabbitnightmare> my nvme issues were mainly WD ones
1753 [22:34:06] <rabbitnightmare> I suggest samsung drives they tend to work the best
1754 [22:34:07] <Urk> WD??
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1756 [22:34:17] <rabbitnightmare> kingston drives also have issues within Linux
1757 [22:34:29] <cws> If those are the ACTUAL paths, whoever gave you that script should be smacked, and you shouldn't run it.
1758 [22:34:29] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> I like Samsung also, but Dell gave me a different brand.
1759 [22:34:30] <rabbitnightmare> I think they use a modified WD firmware or the other way around
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1761 [22:34:50] <rabbitnightmare> ah yeah they tend to use whatever is cheap
1762 [22:35:07] <Urk> rabbitnightmare> I don't think I have WD, but some other thing.
1763 [22:35:20] <rabbitnightmare> lsblk -o model
1764 [22:35:28] <Sayona> If I use unix file or port I get: replaced-url
1765 [22:35:43] <Sayona> if I configure nginx 1.14 all works correctly
1766 [22:36:20] <Urk> Micron 2300 NVMe 1024GB
1767 [22:36:30] <Sayona> maybe I need to move to apache2
1768 [22:36:43] <rabbitnightmare> Urk thats a kingston brand
1769 [22:36:52] <rabbitnightmare> pci=nomsi might resolve it
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1771 [22:37:08] <rabbitnightmare> added to your bootloader Linux argument line
1772 [22:37:10] <sney> rabbitnightmare: there's no "it" to resolve, urk just wasn't looking in /dev for the node
1773 [22:37:19] <rabbitnightmare> ah my bad
1774 [22:37:39] <sney> can't fix pebcak with boot arguments
1775 [22:37:57] <Urk> sney> I was under the false assumption that lsblk would automatically pull up things in /dev, and display the folder structure so that it reflects /dev/*
1776 [22:38:00] <rabbitnightmare> well he typed the command and his output showed the drive as working lol
1777 [22:38:33] <rabbitnightmare> Urk this isnt Arch or gentoo, it seems to be ran by sane people:-P
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1782 [22:42:13] <Urk> rabbitnighmare> I get an error that fdisk is not found, yet it is installed. I am running it at root. Any idea what i am doing wrong?
1783 [22:42:25] <sney> !buster su
1784 [22:42:26] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See replaced-url
1785 [22:42:36] <RisingCoder> maybe not in ur path
1786 [22:42:53] <RisingCoder> you can do which fdisk to find then use the absolute path
1787 [22:43:04] <Urk> RisingCode> got it. Found it.
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1791 [22:44:08] <cws> which doesn't work unless its in your path.
1792 [22:44:58] <jelly> Urk, it's possible that lsblk does not look at /dev at all, but /sys/block instead
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1794 [22:45:20] <Urk> jelly> Thats what seems to be happening.
1795 [22:45:39] <Urk> jelly> It does detect my memory stick, and displays it as /dev/sda1
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1804 [22:52:24] <rabbitnightmare> wew KDE 5.21.2 and Kernel 5.10, not .11 but it runs a LOT smoother
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1806 [22:52:30] <rabbitnightmare> ty for all yalls help
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1808 [22:53:02] <sney> np
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1810 [22:53:22] <rabbitnightmare> thats what I get for building such a new system :-P
1811 [22:53:48] <sney> debian stable is good at a lot of things, supporting cutting edge hardware is not one of them
1812 [22:53:56] <rabbitnightmare> hey it happens
1813 [22:54:05] <sney> welcome to testing. if you have any more questions, join us in #debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode)
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1815 [22:54:42] <kristijonas> Hello, I still get confused with dpkg database vs apt database, also /var/lib/dpkg/available vs that of status. Was available mainly used by the now-deprecated dselect and is not that useful anymore?
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1817 [22:55:32] <Urk> Any idea why my I get "command not found" with smartctl replaced-url
1818 [22:55:49] <sney> !sbin
1819 [22:55:49] <dpkg> Some binaries, particularly system utilities are installed to /sbin or /usr/sbin rather than /bin or /usr/bin. The former directories are not in a standard user's PATH. Try calling them directly, e.g. /sbin/ifconfig, or running them as root. See also <buster su>.
1820 [22:56:12] <sney> basically, because of the same PATH thing with fdisk, that we already told you about.
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1822 [22:57:50] <Urk> sney: How would you correct the path? I ran smartctrl /dev/nvme0n1p1 so not sure what is going on here.
1823 [22:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1011
1824 [22:58:04] <rabbitnightmare> almost 400fps in Albion Online now where before I was maybe getting 10
1825 [22:58:20] <sney> Urk: you become root with a sane method. either by using sudo, or with 'su -'. just typing su does not change your PATH from the non-root user one.
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1831 [23:07:05] <greycat> !buster su
1832 [23:07:05] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See replaced-url
1833 [23:07:36] <greycat> The behavior of buster's su is STUPID and can be fixed. The whole thing could have been avoided in the first place but the Debian developers do not care.
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1841 [23:15:43] <oxek> greycat: what's the proper behavior then? I am curious to learn, especially if you have any resources I should look at.
1842 [23:16:22] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip ) (Quit: shibboleth)
1843 [23:16:23] <sney> I like the suggestion in #907194 to move the 'root password' installer dialog to expert mode only, so the majority of users get sudo installed and configured by default (which many don't atm because they don't read the whole prompt). that would solve this issue for the users who don't understand how PATH works in linux, and the ones who know what they're looking at can fix it easily in multiple ways
1844 [23:16:25] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1848 [23:18:24] <jmcnaught> Booting into recovery mode from GRUB only works if a root password is set.
1849 [23:19:14] *** Quits: Sayona (~Sayona@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1850 [23:19:27] <sney> that should probably be addressed separately, since having no root password *is* a common configuration.
1851 [23:19:40] <oxek> jmcnaught: are you sure about that? For me, it just drops me into a root shell without having to put any passwords in.
1852 [23:20:11] <sney> oxek: that sounds like you passed init=/bin/sh, which is different from the standard recovery mode
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1854 [23:20:29] <oxek> sney: oh, is that not what recovery mode is?
1855 [23:20:38] <oxek> init=/bin/sh is what I always did
1856 [23:21:06] <oxek> or if using the recovery from the debian netinst cd, it also does not need any passwords (unless encryption is involved)
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1858 [23:22:10] <sney> in this case we're talking about the recovery mode on an installed system, available from the grub menu. it does not change init to /bin/sh, it just boots with systemd at the single-user runlevel.
1859 [23:22:21] <deeplogic> if i get a $1400 stimulus deposit i'm gonna buy an epiphone '59 les paul, and i want to put a nice debian decal on the body, who sells very cool, preferably transparent debian decals ?
1860 [23:22:22] <jmcnaught> oxek: at the GRUB menu at boot under "advanced options…" there is a recovery mode that boots into rescue.target
1861 [23:23:25] *** Quits: magyar (~magyar@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1862 [23:23:33] <jmcnaught> deeplogic: replaced-url
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1864 [23:24:37] <deeplogic> i used to chat with the fellow that designed the debian swirl logo on #linpeople for years
1865 [23:24:42] <deeplogic> ah, klowner
1866 [23:24:45] <deeplogic> yes
1867 [23:25:29] <deeplogic> jmcnaught: tnanx !
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1869 [23:25:40] <oxek> deeplogic: you too might be interested in knowing how debian is made replaced-url
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1871 [23:26:05] <oxek> there really should be a webpage tracking sightings of debian in the wild
1872 [23:26:15] <oxek> "a wild debian appears"
1873 [23:26:25] <deeplogic> oxek: is that url workplace safe ? i don't go to safe urls
1874 [23:26:25] <greycat> sney: there is no "proper behavior", because su is not a standard command. It has varying behavior across OSes. But the su in Debian always changed PATH when becoming root, until buster. The sudden change is lamentable.
1875 [23:26:32] <oxek> deeplogic: yes, safe
1876 [23:26:39] <deeplogic> too bad
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1880 [23:26:54] <greycat> sney: there were *many* threads discussing it on debian-user. All the time, Constantly. Nobody cared enough to fucking change it.
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1882 [23:27:05] <sney> greycat: congratulations, I didn't say anything about proper behavior
1883 [23:27:12] <sney> greycat: go highlight someone else
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1885 [23:27:14] <greycat> All I can do is continue to point people to the solution on the wiki. It's one line to fix it.
1886 [23:27:40] <greycat> sney: oh, sorry, it was oxek who asked.
1887 [23:27:48] <oxek> I still saw it
1888 [23:28:06] <greycat> two people with 4-character nicks back to back...
1889 [23:28:07] <oxek> and I'm now trying to figure out if debian's behavior of su is different from every other distro
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1891 [23:28:48] <oxek> and if other distros are going to follow
1892 [23:29:06] <greycat> oxek: unfortunately, Red Hat used the buster version for many, many years, so it's a thing that many people got used to. Many of them decided spontaneously that "su -" was the correct fix, and have been advertising it as such. I disagree, and have been promoting /etc/default/su instead.
1893 [23:29:59] <greycat> as someone who had both Red Hat and Debian systems at work, I was always flabbergasted by how stupid Red Hat's su was whenever I had to admin one of them....
1894 [23:30:18] <oxek> a somewhat offtopic question - what is the best way of reading mailing lists? The online interface is problematic for me, because I get confused about "Next by Thread/Date/...", and sometimes it just completely jumps to a different thread instead of next message
1895 [23:30:35] <oxek> is there some special app that parses it for me?
1896 [23:30:36] <greycat> there is no "best". do what works for you.
1897 [23:31:13] <oxek> you're right, shouldn't have asked for best. Instead, what do people use when they don't use the webpage interface, and don't have those emails saved locally?
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1899 [23:31:28] <oxek> I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
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1901 [23:31:46] <greycat> I subscribe to debian-user and read it in mutt as it arrives.
1902 [23:32:03] <oxek> there seems to be a lot of information in the mailing lists, but it's difficult for me to access, so I feel like I'm doing something wrong.
1903 [23:32:25] <oxek> yes, would make sense if I was already subscribed, and had all those emails downloaded, but I can't do that for mails that predate my subscription
1904 [23:33:27] <greycat> I only rarely read older posts, and then I just use whatever web archive google coughs up.
1905 [23:33:50] <deeplogic> hmmm, klowner.org is gone but there is still a replaced-url
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1908 [23:37:23] <deeplogic> the broken pieces of my life, including debian misfailures are all over archive.org, the famous wayback machine, i'm old enough to have watched the original wayback cartoons on tv
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1912 [23:39:44] <deeplogic> peabody's improbable history of debian
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1918 [23:49:03] <rabbitnightmare> deeplogic please take it to -offtopic
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1920 [23:50:10] <leibniz> No the JavaScript people are dumb as expected
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1931 [23:56:32] <leibniz> Nevermind
1932 [23:56:43] <leibniz> I’m the dumb one the JavaScript guys are cool
1933 [23:56:47] <leibniz> Lol
1934 [23:56:59] <leibniz> Debian rules!
1935 [23:57:13] <deeplogic> oh, klowner.com is the site of the designer of the debian swirl logo
1936 [23:57:13] <CyberManifest> s/rules/drules
1937 [23:57:27] <CyberManifest> s/drules/drools
1938 [23:58:08] <CyberManifest> deeplogic ironic klowner sounds like clown-er
1939 [23:58:33] *** Druid is now known as D
1940 [23:58:48] <deeplogic> CyberManifest: i think so also, i suppose it;s supposed to be cute
1941 [23:59:02] *** D is now known as Guest77832
1942 [23:59:28] <CyberManifest> or kl-owner
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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