1[00:00:40] <urk> mrjpaxton[m]> Its downloading, but on an ancient 32-bit system so it is slooow. I have a 100mbps download speed at my building so likely the internet standard of my laptop is 802.11a
3[00:00:55] <ham5urg> I have a Wacom HID embedded in my monitor (laptop). But it does not appear in gnome-settings. Still, in energy-gnome-settings I can see a Wacom HID 48E2. I guess it shows the battery of the pen (100%). The monitor-HID works well. But what kind of Wacom-monitor is that? Can I make it appear inside wacom-gnome-settings?
8[00:04:28] <jmcnaught> I believe the computer being used to download is 32-bit but the target computer the installer will be used on is a 64-bit computer from 2019.
10[00:05:09] <mrjpaxton[m]> Oh really? Sorry, I haven't read the past messages, like I should. :(
11[00:05:15] <urk> mrjpaxton[m]> Don't bother. I am only downloading and burning the installer on a 32-bit system. Its being installed on a 64-bit system. I am installing the installer on a Dell XPS 15 7590 which came out in late 2019.
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13[00:06:27] <urk> Not to get off topic, I like what Dell did with the screen, battery, case, and processing. However, keyboard layout couldn't been better, but not terrible.
14[00:07:42] <bru> Hello, I'm trouble running wine64 having purged wine32 and deleted the i386 arch off my amd64 system. Is there any way to do it or is it really necessary to install wine32 as my error says?
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18[00:08:06] <mrjpaxton[m]> urk: Oh yeah, I really don't like Dell's rubber dome keyboards. My favorite is still MX Red. I tried Browns and Blues before, and they were nice, but nothing beats Red for me. :)
19[00:08:10] <Mister00X> bru: usually you will need both
27[00:10:16] <urk> keyboard texture isn't bad. Its the layout that seems strange. You have to select the Fn keey and the end key together to get to the end. The had a lot of room to just stick the end key off to the side so that you could swipe it without looking.
28[00:10:17] <abff> I kind of like my dell latitude keyboard, sometimes junk gets stuck under the scissor stabilizer things but
29[00:10:32] <abff> I have full removed all the key caps twice now to wash and lube it
30[00:10:41] <mrjpaxton[m]> If you don't want to taint your pure 64-bit Debian install with 32-bit crud, you can use some systems like a virtual machine, or container (like Docker) or Flatpak, which I think installs 32-bit static libraries all sandboxed.
31[00:10:42] <abff> pretty impressive for a laptop
32[00:11:04] <urk> Dell gets an AAA+ for screen brightness in this model so it looks like the company is still responsive on features if you write the top brass.
33[00:11:37] <mrjpaxton[m]> I just wish VMs ran faster on my laptop.... I still use Flatpak/Docker for all my 32-bit needs. Lol.
40[00:14:47] <mrjpaxton[m]> VMs are nice. My only problem with them is that 3D acceleration and GPU passthough still feels like it hasn't been perfected yet. As much as I like QEMU, it is really slow with most of the basic settings. VirtualBox at least has options for sane people who don't want to figure out all of QEMU or libvirt. I don't think Vagrant focuses on any of that, but I could be wrong.
41[00:15:21] <urk> mrjapaxton[m]> I was going to try the debootstrap option, but had trouble getting the firmware into the computer. I guess I could have tried to get it in at shell, but there was no prompt.
42[00:15:25] <mrjpaxton[m]> I feel like Vagrant is more for server application use.
43[00:15:39] <abff> I've always founs virt-manager to be a no brainer solution
44[00:15:49] <abff> click click bam vm ready to go
45[00:16:22] <mrjpaxton[m]> Oh the one for libvirt? I really should try it out. I am using QEMU Bash scripts, and it makes me feel a bit silly.
46[00:16:56] <mrjpaxton[m]> That's just to play around and test stuff in, though.
47[00:16:58] <ratrace> why silly? that's the most direct and powerful way to use them. I run all the VMs with qemu-system-x86_64 directly
48[00:17:19] <mrjpaxton[m]> I haven't been able to set up a serious VM that will work with just about most hardware.
49[00:17:24] <ratrace> then again libvirt and virt-manager UI are just high level wrappers for the qemu-kvm virtualization
53[00:18:56] <abff> Well thats the nice thing about qemu, if you want to rice it, its easy. If you want easy and fast, libvirt and virt-manager are there for you
54[00:19:15] <abff> replace that first easy with "accessible"
57[00:20:13] <abff> haha no I mean if you want to compose your whole vm from scratch it's accessible just by virtue of config files and command line options.
58[00:20:13] <ratrace> I have custom scripts because they set up and tear up hugepages based environment + scheduler for the gaming VM
59[00:20:22] <abff> virt-manager is clickable
60[00:20:23] <ratrace> libvirt alone and virt-manager cannot do that, they just run the VMs
61[00:20:43] <mrjpaxton[m]> I've also learned QEMU can run Windows XP just fine, but every time I try to run Windows 95 or 98, it's dog slow. And running anything Windows 7 or above at a decent speed (at least on any hardware below 2014) requires a bunch of decked out VirtIO stuff to be configured and installed.
62[00:21:07] <ratrace> well yes. paravirt > full virtualization
64[00:24:34] <jmcnaught> ratrace: you can't do that stuff with libvirt hooks?
65[00:25:42] <ratrace> jmcnaught: maybe you can, actually. I got the thousand yard sare when I saw all the XML I had to type in, so I decided to whip up a 30 line bash script instead :)
66[00:25:48] <ratrace> *stare
67[00:26:17] <jmcnaught> ratrace: which scheduler do you use?
68[00:26:33] <ratrace> pstate performance, turns out it's the best.
69[00:27:36] <ratrace> but uh... I got a lousy CPU for vfio and passthrough. nonvirtualizes irq is eating into latency big time. the new AMD based VM host/server/workstation that I'm building will have that fixed
72[00:29:32] <jmcnaught> pstate performance is that a cpufreq governor?
73[00:29:40] <ratrace> yea
74[00:30:31] <ratrace> there's schedutil, ondemand and userland+cpufreqd, and I settled with pstate+performance
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76[00:32:01] <mrjpaxton[m]> I also have a Librem 13 v4 which has the Intel ME disabled. So I think that affects VM performance. :(
77[00:32:09] *** Quits: Mister00X (quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: "I'll be back" — Arnold Schwarzenegger)
78[00:32:11] <ratrace> switchign between powersave when the VM is not running, and performance when it is, and I also dynamically allocate hugepages because those are then VM reserved and aren't available on the host. also have to set up vfio rebinding of some usb pci lanes.... anyhoo.. that's why I use a script
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82[00:34:27] <jmcnaught> I tried static hugepages last week actually, and bizarrely my VM started losing its network connection as if the network cable were unplugged. It stopped doing that when I reverted the changes.
83[00:36:59] *** J is now known as jess
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86[00:46:07] <ryouma> why is space reserved for root on / when normallly / uis already only used by root?
87[00:46:14] <ryouma> (also, is this same reserving stuff the case with btrfs?)
88[00:46:48] <Namarrgon> it's an ext* thing, btrfs doesn't do that
90[00:48:21] <Namarrgon> it's of limited use when root is the only user of that fs or when root doesn't use that fs at all
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92[00:51:35] <ryouma> that seems to be the usual case for me, users for home and root for root. oh, no, lots of daemons use root i guess. i am thinking of setting root to tune2fs -m 4 and home/big to -m 1. (but i lose track and there is no straightforward tool to say what the reserved amount is by percentage so i can't check just have to do -m if i am not sure.)
93[00:52:36] <Namarrgon> many daemons/services do run as a different user, so it does make sense even if /home is on a separate fs
94[00:52:46] <ratrace> btrfs does reserve space however, just in different way
144[01:37:56] <ryouma> idk anything about ipv6 but fwiw i get "telnet -6 archive.debian.org 80 Trying 2a02:16a8:dc41:100::234... Trying 2001:67c:2564:a119::148:13... telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Network is unreachable"
145[01:38:12] <ryouma> ratrace:
146[01:38:14] <ryouma> r0
147[01:38:37] <ratrace> do you even have ipv6 connectivity to begin with
148[01:38:44] <ryouma> not a clue
149[01:38:47] <ratrace> also, wth telnet. wget -6 is a thing
150[01:39:08] <ratrace> ryouma: then your information has no value :)
151[01:39:14] <ryouma> great
152[01:39:24] <ryouma> unless the value is that r0 is in a similar state of cluelessness
177[01:43:11] <ratrace> mtr would show you where it breaks
178[01:43:15] <ryouma> is it possible to find out what usb-Generic_STORAGE_DEVICE_000000009744-0:0 is? (i am guessing i have 2 hubs on my monitor or such)
179[01:43:47] <ratrace> checked lsusb?
180[01:43:47] <r0> it works from other machines... I'll try tcpdump to see that's going on here
181[01:44:13] <r0> some machines it works ok, others it works ok except tcp
219[02:20:35] <mr_ab> I'm really confused.. I don't have a pc currently trying to figure out what's wrong with my system which is a rats nest of mdadm with lvm on top and btrfs on top of that ... I have a Debian install USB handy, which has btrfs as a command, but I don't have mount.btrfs and I can't mount any of the btrfs drives despite them showing up in btrfs filesys status... is there a particular way I can trigger the installation of all the btrfs tools?
220[02:20:51] <r0> mtr on debian 7 does not support TCP :D
221[02:20:55] <r0> ops ops...
222[02:21:19] <mr_ab> Worse comes to worse I can just install Debian onto a USB thumb drive I guess but then I have to contend with missing network drivers
229[02:24:44] <mr_ab> Its all I have unfortunately.. I'd have to reinstall Debian to a blank disk to download it and copy it to media .. I'm just trying to get access into my data to see if it's totally lost or what, and to potentially pull off my network adapter drivers
231[02:25:33] <mr_ab> Err wait i can't even install Debian to a USB disk.. i can but then I'd be without network... I'm up to my neck in catch 22s... I'll check it out tho
232[02:26:05] <mr_ab> I think I have a network card I can put in there and just wire it into my router for the time being ...
233[02:28:01] <r0> ratrace, this machine with debian 7 is FUBAR, so anyway... sorry to bother you guys
234[02:28:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1049
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236[02:28:30] <r0> going to upgrade the thing... just have to test a few configs
237[02:28:32] <mr_ab> Err... one question.. can't find answer on Google (surely I'm asking it poorly but).. how do I install a deb or udeb from the installer rescue shell? Doesn't look like dpkg is a valid command here. I'm booted into the installer part.. could try the live cd portion but ?
238[02:29:14] <sney> mr_ab: iirc there's a menu item (possibly only in expert mode) for 'load additional installer components' or so
239[02:29:28] <sney> not sure if it's possible from the installer busybox
246[02:40:00] <mr_ab> I couldn't get it to work. I'm just going to install Debian to a USB stick as if it were a normal disk and boot off that and work from there. Wish me luck
287[03:17:34] <w9e2> trying to customize the appearance of debian, but am seeing some inconsistencies
288[03:18:24] <w9e2> one is that I changed the default icons, but some of the icons haven't changed.
289[03:19:09] <w9e2> other issue is that some programs are not picking up the window borders set in my theme. could be and issue with some programs using GTK 2 versus GTK 3?
290[03:19:24] <w9e2> anyone have ideas on how to fix these?
291[03:19:32] <w9e2> im on debian 10 testing running cinnamon DE
292[03:19:48] <ryouma> does grml-rescueboot update the grml iso or do you have to do that manually?
293[03:21:19] <sney> w9e2: not a cinnamon user, but I can confirm that there are still gtk2 applications in the archive that might not be cooperating with your theme. for icons, maybe the icon package you installed doesn't cover all of your applications/tools, so they're using fallback defaults.
298[03:22:47] <w9e2> so are the default programs on debian mostly gtk2? im guessing thats what causing the inconsistent appearance
299[03:23:20] <sney> ok, there is no such thing as "debian 10 testing" - testing is the dev platform for debian 11, so your system has very little in common with debian 10.
300[03:23:58] <sney> also, debian tries to change upstream software as little as possible. you have cinnamon 4.8.6 on bullseye? steps to customize it are exactly the same as instructions from cinnamon's website for 4.8
312[03:27:52] <sney> and no, "the default programs on debian" are not mostly gtk2. when using a gtk desktop env, they'll be mostly gtk3. but there are still some gtk2, like hexchat
457[05:03:40] <urk> seems to be no end to my problems trying to install Debian. I just burned the Debian installer using sudo dd if=~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M, and after formating with sudo mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc I am now getting an error on the new laptop that there is no bootable device, and wondering why? How do I fix this problem?
483[05:09:20] <ryouma> and i have seen it recommended to just use cp
484[05:09:20] <abff> most installer iso files have the file system already on it
485[05:09:39] <abff> and you just write the image directly to the usb
486[05:09:48] <urk> dvs> Currently lsblk shows only sdc, and not sdc1. The entire drive appears to have been used for the installer.
487[05:09:52] <SponiX> does matter what method you use if your target device isn't correct -- you are going to have a bad time :P
488[05:09:58] <ryouma> next, the idea of partitioning is to put filesystems on it with mkfs*. if you do this you can't boot unless you populate the filesystem and get the boot loader on there and so on.
489[05:10:20] <dvs> urk: that because you did mkfs.ext4 on /dev/sdc, not /dev/sdc1
490[05:10:24] <urk> abff> There was stuff on the drive that needed to be cleared off from earlier iso burns.
491[05:10:51] <abff> urk when you overwrite the usb you'll clobber the old file system
492[05:10:52] <urk> dvs> jmcnaught previously recommended to use the whole drive so that is why I did it.
493[05:11:32] <ryouma> perhaps this was referring to an iso rather than a partitioning or mkfs?
495[05:11:42] <urk> abff> That was the intent, and the partition was completely full from previous installer attempts.
496[05:11:47] <jmcnaught> urk: I have told you multiple times to copy the debian ISO image to the device, not a partition. Your dd command does the opposite of that. I have never told you to format the USB stick with mkfs.
497[05:12:15] <dvs> That's what I thought
498[05:12:17] <urk> jmcnaught> I did exactly what you said, but apparently sney didn't like it. Not sure why.
499[05:12:26] <dvs> urk, you did not
500[05:12:36] <abff> did your computer like it? that's all that matters
501[05:12:42] <ryouma> hehe
502[05:12:44] <sney> it's like the things we tell you go into a blender
503[05:12:57] <dvs> urk, you are confusing the entire disk with a partition on a disk.
504[05:13:03] <sney> none of this is complicated enough to justify the time spent
505[05:13:15] <urk> dvs> There are no partitions at this time on /dev/sdc
506[05:13:28] <jmcnaught> 23:03 < urk> … I just burned the Debian installer using sudo dd if=~/Downloads/debian-live-10.8.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree_stable.iso of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M
507[05:13:29] <abff> urk great now copy the iso to the device
508[05:13:42] <jmcnaught> /dev/sdc1 is a partition. /dev/sdc is a device.
509[05:13:46] <dvs> urk: because of mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc which is wrong. That wiped out all partitions.
533[05:36:13] <urk> jmcnaught> I did, and this time it booted. Not sure what the problem was before. Previous attempts with dd had no problem. I am at a screen that says "This machine's firmware has started the installer in UEFI mode, but it looks like there may be an existing OS already installed using "BIOS compatibility mode". If you continue to install Debian in UEFI mode, it might be difficult to reboot the machine into any BIOS-mode operating
534[05:36:13] <urk> system later. If you wish to install in UEFI mode, and don't care about keeping the ability to boot one of the existing systems, youhave the option to force that here. If you wish to keep the option to boot an existing OS, you should choose NOT to force UEFI installation here. And then it asks yes or no.
535[05:36:29] <urk> Incidentally the network card still won't install, but I haven't installed system components as of yet.
536[05:36:39] <urk> I am going to again force UEFI.
554[05:48:45] <urk> Well, the issue of no firmware is still a problem, but the installer was a lot smoother.
555[05:49:22] <urk> jmcnaught> So how do I copy this firmware to the disk since there is no prompt for firmware? Should I do this at the shell?
556[05:50:24] <jmcnaught> urk: finish the installation, boot into the new Debian install, install the .deb files you downloaded from a USB stick using "dpkg -i packagename.deb"
557[05:53:25] <urk> jmcnaught> I pulled the memory stick out after finishing the install, rebooted, and get an error message indicating no bootable devices found.
572[06:02:36] <urk> I'm going to delete the partitions I created, but doubt likely that what I created is the cause of the problem. I think there is more than one thing going on here. I don't think missing firmware is the only problem. It should have booted
573[06:02:48] <jmcnaught> urk: if you choose "Guided - use entire disk" (with or without LVM) then it will delete the partitions and use a sensible layout.
575[06:04:40] <jmcnaught> urk: my basic advice is simplify as much as possible, do as straight-forward an install as you can. For most questions accept the default, but read the questions carefully. Use the guided partitioning. Now that you have copied the Debian ISO to USB correctly there's no reason for it not to work.
585[06:08:34] <jmcnaught> urk: you have had so much trouble and spent so much time doing this already I think it is worth spending 20-30 minutes doing a quick basic install to verify you can install Debian to this computer.
587[06:10:48] <urk> jmcnaught> Out of curiousity, which partition is the grub boot loader normally stored in?
588[06:12:36] <elios> "This is a collection of some of those scripts on a purely subjective and biased basis." who writes this shit?
589[06:12:37] <jmcnaught> urk: on an UEFI system grub is installed to the EFI System Partition (ESP) which on Debian is normally mounted under /boot/efi
590[06:12:40] <urk> It booted. Looks like GRUB didn't like something with my previous configuration, but not sure what.
599[06:23:50] <urk> sda1 is apparently where the firmware is located at, but I am having trouble mounting the drive. Get an error message indicating its not found in /etc/fstab
600[06:24:14] <jmcnaught> What command did you use? Did you specify a mount point?
601[06:26:54] <urk> mount /dev/sda1 which is where the device is
602[06:27:00] <urk> I am already in root.
603[06:28:02] <elios> i don't know what to do, but vim leaves artifacts with every other exisitng colorscheme when starting it with `vi` from a virtual terminal.
609[06:30:59] <elios> it's basically the background color of your terminal except top and bottom line and where the text is. after [i]nsert it changes line after line.
610[06:31:02] <urk> usb is detected at root, but not in the gui.
618[06:35:06] <jmcnaught> elios: cool, there's another channel on a different network for testing
619[06:35:10] <jmcnaught> !debian-next
620[06:35:10] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
621[06:35:21] <elios> right, oftc.
622[06:37:47] <elios> jmcnaught: do you have to register first?
625[06:39:25] <jmcnaught> elios: are you still on freenode? It's on OFTC. the channel mode there is +cnt so I don't think you need to be registered
626[06:40:59] <urk> jmcnaught> I attempted to install two of the firmwares with dpkg -i, and i received the folloowing three messages: 1) 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not in PATH or not executable, 2) 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable, and 3) error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable. And there was a note at the end that said Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, usr/sbin, and /sbin.
628[06:42:17] <jmcnaught> urk: you probably became root with the "su" command when you needed to use "su -l" to get a proper root environment including PATH with /sbin.
629[06:43:00] <jmcnaught> !buster su
630[06:43:00] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). See replaced-url
632[06:43:38] <SponiX> jmcnaught: Yeah, can't say I'm in agreement with that, as it is just one more thing to remember and I like sanity "out of the box" :)
642[06:47:01] <urk> dpkg -i and the two firmware file names
643[06:47:01] * dpkg removes a kidney from urk and replaces it with and the two firmware file names
644[06:47:59] <jmcnaught> urk: do them one at a time, use <TAB> completion to make sure the filename is correct
645[06:49:40] <ryouma> i thought it was necessary so the factoid is confusing --- 22:44 <jmcnaught> I always used "su -" before buster because I read somewhere a long time ago it was safer.
646[06:49:51] <ryouma> i.e. i thought it always was what it sayd
647[06:51:21] <urk> jmcnaught> ok, both are installed.
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649[06:52:15] <jmcnaught> urk: did you also install linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb ?
654[06:55:22] <jmcnaught> urk: if you installed both linux-image…amd64.deb and firmware-iwlwifi…deb you could reboot and try using wifi (I don't know if you installed a GUI or not)
656[06:55:48] <jmcnaught> urk: I had previously also recommended installing firmware-misc-nonfree but you can do that after you get networking working.
657[06:56:09] <jmcnaught> urk: if you did not install a GUI then you may need to install additional packages to get wifi working, like wpasupplicant
665[07:02:54] <jmcnaught> I don't know xfce very well, I use GNOME. But my first instinct would be to right-click somewhere on the desktop to see if there's a context menu that lets you add a new menu bar.
666[07:04:33] <ndorf> yep
667[07:04:49] <ndorf> right click desktop, then select Applications -> Settings -> Panel
668[07:05:21] <abff> alt+f3 is the default keyboard shortcut to open the application selector too
672[07:13:47] <urk> Its getting really late, and I will need to continue this tomorrow. I took note of your recommendation to install wpasupplicant, and firmware-misc-nonfree.
673[07:14:37] <urk> I just checked and wpasupplicant is already installed.
674[07:15:21] <jmcnaught> urk: that's good, and nice progress today. You might have everything you need installed to connect to a wifi network now. You will probably still need to configure /etc/apt/sources.list
675[07:16:18] <urk> jmcnaught> Still not getting any wifi detection.
676[07:17:13] <urk> At this point I only have vi to work with so installing wifi would allow me to install vim
677[07:18:15] <urk> I should be able to the sources.list without help. but not sure what to think of the missing wifi
678[07:19:31] <jmcnaught> I am sure that you will figure it out tomorrow.
679[07:19:41] <urk> Thanks again for all of your help.
702[08:08:15] <MegaCarp> im on debian 10 xfce logging with remmina onto a xrdp server. let's say my physical pc hangs and i want to reboot it but i'm stuck looking at remote rdp session. i press alt+sysrq SUB to reboot - can it possibly do anything with xrdp session? i'm sure it won't reboot the server but could it possibly pass through the remmina to reboot the remote session and have me lose some work?
719[08:42:00] <jolt> MegaCarp: that sounds like an exotic setup. I think you will have to try it to find out. I have a hard time beliving that alt+sysrq would trigger anything remote, but I dunno.
720[08:42:31] <jolt> Install a vm and test it on there?
725[08:44:29] <MegaCarp> jolt: uh, if you think that it's exotic then there has been a miscommunication: there's a server with xrdp. people log onto it with remmina using RDP. it can pass through hotkeys so I was wondering what would sysrq+SUB do in the described situation
726[08:45:01] <MegaCarp> a vm test makes sense, thanks, though it would take time to set up... i suppose this is as good time as any to learn debian scripted install
734[08:50:00] *** Joins: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip)
735[08:50:42] <jolt> MegaCarp: preseed is easy! Get a preseed file, put on webserver, select automated install in the installer, point to the server and boom, done!
740[08:56:38] <abff> MegaCarp: this sounds like a question for a windows person. I can't find anything that says RDP will ignore sysreq key presses.
741[08:57:59] <abff> Maybe xrdp will ignore them instead, for safety. I'll keep looking
742[08:58:00] <MegaCarp> abff: xrdp is on debian server. client machines are (mostly) using remmina, the protocol used is RDP - we're not talking about WINRD
749[09:01:32] <jaggz> anyone know how I can get my hands on cuda samples dir?
750[09:01:54] <jaggz> This project is looking for it, and its test is to look in the cuda toolkit directory for a folder "samples/"
751[09:01:58] <MegaCarp> abff: i strongly expect it wouldn't touch the server - it'd be insanity otherwise. but i also care about the user session - i don't want to lose even stupid stuff like opened tabs if it can be avoided. i, basically, want to know if i should be telling users to use sysrq+SUB or press the power button
752[09:02:07] <jaggz> It then proceeds to use that as an include path with "samples/common/inc"
755[09:03:34] <MegaCarp> jolt: i'm an advanced noob, is there a step-by-step guide however i should put it onto a webserver? like, would gist work?... i probably don't want gist - it'd expose personal information.
781[09:29:32] <Nindustries> In other news: anyone used squid in transparent mode? I'm getting ERROR: NF getsockopt(ORIGINAL_DST) failed on local=172.17.0.2:3129 remote=172.17.0.1:61146 FD 13 flags=33: (2) No such file or directory
878[10:30:42] <TheBigK> eblip: i would say the download page of the project has a wallet that u can download
879[10:31:01] <TheBigK> is a bin file... so no debian package... but atleast its tested against ubuntu. so the chances are high that it works on debian too
880[10:31:22] <eblip> yes i just found one there TheBigK ..but i got a wallet from debian called electrum for bitcoin
881[10:31:37] <eblip> so just thought id ask in case i was missing something with a weird name
1001[12:29:29] <jelly> oh then it's the same as i5-8xxx
1002[12:30:28] <jelly> H4ndy, but that page doesn't list i5-7xxx
1003[12:30:30] <genr8> surprise all intel chips are the same for the past 6 years ;P
1004[12:30:53] <H4ndy> Coffee Lake is a Kaby Lake refresh and they use the same GPU
1005[12:31:15] <H4ndy> both list the HD 630 as their GPU
1006[12:31:43] <H4ndy> > The UHD Graphics 630 is simply a rebranding and is otherwise identical to the HD Graphics 630 found in desktop Kaby Lake processors.
1007[12:32:51] <jelly> eh
1008[12:33:40] <jelly> then it ought to support the exact same stuff as this i5-8365U laptop I'm writing from
1009[12:34:40] <jelly> NetTerminalGene, install vainfo, show output before installing intel-media-va-driver-non-free and after
1010[12:34:52] <genr8> whats the point of using the onboard GPU to encode. reduce cpu usage ?
1011[12:35:00] <NetTerminalGene> i5 7400 have HD 630, nıt UHD
1012[12:35:13] <jelly> the free i965-va-driver won't have all the encoding stuff
1013[12:35:15] <NetTerminalGene> genr8: faster
1014[12:35:25] <genr8> i find that hard to believe
1015[12:35:27] <jelly> both of those.
1016[12:36:09] <jelly> genr8, there are more GPU shaders to feed numbers into than there are AVX in the CPU, apparently
1022[12:39:12] <genr8> i feel like its a power consumption or efficiency thing
1023[12:39:21] <jelly> of course it is
1024[12:40:03] <genr8> a multi-core CPU would beat a little intel gpu, cause think about it, it beats even a full fledged nvidia NVEnc
1025[12:40:49] <jelly> which is why !tias
1026[12:42:11] <jelly> I have not tried to use any encoding, except within a browser for video meetings and it was a bit of a pain to coerce chrome to think there's hw accel encoding there
1040[12:49:26] <koollman> genr8: versus a 22 core cpu, yes.
1041[12:49:48] <koollman> genr8: now, if you have something slower than that (or a gpu faster than the gtx 1060 used in the comparison), the gap wides
1042[12:49:54] <koollman> *widens
1043[12:51:05] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1044[12:51:53] <koollman> using both on the same stream would be weird/hard. they aren't doing the exact same thing, and most modern encoders rely on rather few reference pictures. basically you would encode small segments of the video and paste them together at the end, but it would magnify any difference in encoding artefact when going from a segment to the next
1103[14:07:44] <oxek> what's a realistic thing I can do when there's the unfortunate situation where a package has a CVE fixed in buster-stable, but the version in buster-backports has not been fixed in months?
1131[14:28:01] <ratrace> Jenkler: technically yes if dependencies are satisfied. definitely not advisable
1132[14:28:30] <Jenkler> but I am unable to install it. apt-cache search does not find any hexchat
1133[14:28:37] <oxek> !bat
1134[14:28:37] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1135[14:28:41] <oxek> Jenkler: read that^
1136[14:28:47] <oxek> and tell us what you've tried so far
1139[14:32:01] <Jenkler> oxek shuld i be able to find hexchat with standard buster sources. As you can se I cant find anything. Wonder if ther is a key issue or something
1183[14:41:38] <Jenkler> Do I do this in sources.list?
1184[14:41:41] <ratrace> yes
1185[14:42:00] <ratrace> change the URL of deb.debian.org to whichever mirror you want, and re-run apt update
1186[14:43:04] <oxek> ratrace: but if `apt update` successfully completes, then it shouldn't matter which mirror one is using, `apt-cache search hexchat` should return the correct result
1187[14:43:29] <ratrace> update can be successful with broken, corrupt, incomplete database
1188[14:43:48] <ratrace> it's just a theory based on previous experience. give it a shot, worst case it won't fix anything.
1189[14:43:56] <oxek> oh really?
1190[14:44:12] <oxek> I always got some messages from apt whenever there was something wrong with either the remote server or local database
1191[14:44:33] <ratrace> oxek: well if apt gets a file in valid format, it has no clue whether the list is complete or incomplete, and assumes that's all there is
1193[14:45:11] <oxek> ratrace: is my understanding correct that the file retrieved by `apt update` is generated by debian people, and then mirrored on the mirrors? I.e. it is not generated by the mirrors themselves?
1194[14:45:24] <ratrace> that's my understanding as well
1195[14:45:45] <oxek> if that's the case, then if the file was borked, then it would affect all mirrors, and we'd already have a bunch of people in here with broken setups
1197[14:46:02] <ratrace> no. in theory, it's possible one or more mirrors are serving stale files
1198[14:46:18] <oxek> but apt-cache search is happening locally, no?
1199[14:46:23] <ratrace> or there was incomplete database generation, sent to mirrors, corrected and completed, re-sent to mirrors but not all synced up the new version
1200[14:46:50] <ratrace> it's searching in the database fetched by apt update
1203[14:47:17] <dpkg> Debian mirrors have timestamp files we use to determine how recently they have been updated. Here are some statistics the mirror maintainers provide: replaced-url
1204[14:47:24] <oxek> I suppose you're right, if the file was generated incorrectly, sent to mirrors, then fixed and sent to mirrors again, there would be a brief time when things are borked
1209[14:48:39] <TheBigK> is someone of u running ipvs loadbalancer on debian basis? im considering it for a test case... what kind of failover method would u recommend. more like keepalive or more like something else
1212[14:49:20] <ratrace> I use DNS failover, because IP failover would still have the standby behind the same router in the same datacenter, in my case, so DNS is more complete
1213[14:49:48] <oxek> Jenkler: let us know your progress, I've never seen this happen before
1214[14:50:29] <Jenkler> is this correct ; deb replaced-url
1215[14:50:45] <Jenkler> it complain when updateing
1268[15:03:04] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1269[15:03:05] <oxek> the only difference is that once bullseye (debian 11) is officially released, then 'stable' will upgrade to bullseye, whereas buster will keep on being buster
1270[15:03:35] <TheBigK> and version changes might break things depending what u run on ur machine
1282[15:09:23] <Jenkler> heeh, yes. I am used to Gentoo and Alpine Linux
1283[15:09:53] <Jenkler> But on chromebooks debian is default in Linux beta
1284[15:10:05] <oxek> is that debian installation some docker/lxc/lxd thing?
1285[15:10:20] <Jenkler> jepp, its lxd
1286[15:10:21] <TheBigK> Jenkler: i used to use gentoo as 64bit for me was a thing... i thought... gentoo was so well documented... reminds me alot of archlinux these days
1287[15:10:38] <oxek> yeah, I noticed that LXD does not include the buster-updates repo in the sources.list
1288[15:10:40] <oxek> don't really know why
1289[15:10:46] <ratrace> The Alot reminds a lot of people, frequently, yes.
1290[15:10:46] <Jenkler> I mostly use Alpine now
1291[15:11:21] <TheBigK> Jenkler: i just come across it inside docker. im not rly sure what i should think about alpine... didnt give it a real shot yet
1292[15:11:27] <ratrace> oxek: by that you mean some LXD default image somwhere in some hub?
1293[15:11:30] <Jenkler> oxek how do I add buster-updates
1294[15:11:39] <ratrace> !sources.list
1295[15:11:39] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
1296[15:11:52] <Jenkler> is it like main
1297[15:12:09] <oxek> Jenkler: my sources.list replaced-url
1298[15:12:11] <ratrace> the buster/updates vs buster-updates confusion will be resolved with bullseye, where bullseye/updates will be no more, just bullseye-security instead of it
1336[15:19:41] <oxek> ratrace: it already is, isn't it? Unless you have NetworkManager installed.
1337[15:19:57] <ratrace> afaik no
1338[15:20:09] <tcurdt> hm ... I don't see ... "dpkg -l | grep systemd" doesn't list it for me on buster
1339[15:20:17] <ratrace> if by already you mean buster.
1340[15:20:27] <ratrace> tcurdt: list what?
1341[15:20:44] <tcurdt> systemd-resoved ... or whatever the exact name is
1342[15:20:48] <ratrace> it's not a separate package. it's a service. systemd-resolved.service
1343[15:20:54] <tcurdt> aaaah .... ok
1344[15:20:56] <oxek> `systemctl status systemd-resolved`
1345[15:21:26] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1346[15:21:26] <ratrace> I'd recommend masking it and setting up your resolving somehow else (bind, unbound, dnsmasq, none at all (use external resolver))
1347[15:21:49] <oxek> does systemd as a whole now have more lines of code than the linux kernel? I thought I read something like that, but don't know if it was a joke or not
1366[15:25:41] <oxek> huh, I guess operating systems are really simple then ;)
1367[15:26:03] <ratrace> linux kernel is not an operating system tho ;)
1368[15:26:09] <oxek> yeah, I misspoke
1369[15:26:17] <ratrace> unless you mean linux + middleware (systemd) + gnu parts
1370[15:26:24] <oxek> it's GNU/Linux!
1371[15:26:31] <ratrace> was GNU/Linux
1372[15:26:41] <oxek> GNU/systemd/Linux now? :p
1373[15:26:47] <ratrace> these days it'd be very, very hypocritical to call it GNU/Linux
1374[15:27:24] <oxek> to be fair, I don't really know the story of why it would be called GNU/Linux, and it doesn't sound like a technical distinction that would matter to me
1375[15:27:42] <dreamer> because linux is only the kernel
1376[15:27:49] <dreamer> and most of the tooling around it is GNU
1377[15:28:06] <ratrace> well some time ago RMS felt hurt that everyone called the distro "Linux" while that was just the kernel and userland was borrowed from GNU
1378[15:28:15] <dreamer> "borrowed"? :P
1379[15:28:20] <dreamer> I mean GNU nearly had a full OS
1380[15:28:25] <dreamer> they just needed a working kernel
1381[15:28:29] <oxek> Hurd!
1382[15:28:40] <dreamer> and here comes Linus Torvalds with his little pet project that he opensourced
1389[15:29:13] <ratrace> define "OS" tho. and how much of that is provided by systemd these days. and soon LLVM might completely displace GCC so it'd be even less of GNU/Linux unles "GNU" is just one of the components in the full name :)
1390[15:29:19] <ychaouche> yo debianeros
1391[15:29:45] <dreamer> how is LLVM going to replace GCC exactly?
1392[15:29:47] <ychaouche> I'm looking for a xtables-addons-dkms package in buster, can't find it
1393[15:30:01] <ratrace> dreamer: by being preferred compiler for .... everything
1394[15:30:03] <oxek> dreamer: kernel can be successfully compiled with llvm instead of gcc now
1395[15:30:11] <dreamer> is it though?
1396[15:30:25] <oxek> llvm is neat
1397[15:30:38] <ychaouche> I used this module in jessie for geoip fencing
1398[15:30:48] <oxek> I get all sorts of new warnings for my code to ignore :D
1402[15:32:23] <oxek> "Look, when we compile this code with llvm, it gives us so many new warnings to indicate possible bugs", "Neat. *adds those warnings to ignore list*"
1403[15:32:26] <ratrace> dreamer: it's not yet but it's getting there. distros are using LLVM more and more, eg. Mandriva is using it as default, Fedora is considering, there's effort to make the kenrel fully compileable by LLVM, etc...
1429[15:37:19] <oxek> ratrace: not really welcoming it, just realizing that I need some of those apps and would make my life easier if they were packaged in debian
1431[15:38:01] <ratrace> snap install them. that's waht you get with the electron mindset anyway
1432[15:38:07] <oxek> electron is an atrocity, but it's an atrocity that I've used to create a lot of stuff that saved me from homelessness/starvation/death
1433[15:38:41] <oxek> ratrace: yeah, but I prefer the debian way, with the debian "social contract" or whatever it's called
1440[15:40:07] <oxek> well, you either pospone it for a max 60 (90?) days, after which it definitely updates, or you disable the service, at which point you can't do anything snap related
1441[15:40:14] <ratrace> apt purge snapd no moar snapd auto update problems :))
1446[15:40:50] <ychaouche> ratrace, should I try and build it myself ?
1447[15:40:51] <ratrace> one the devs see nothing wrong about. explains everything.
1448[15:41:03] <ychaouche> ratrace, not the kernel of course
1449[15:41:42] <oxek> ratrace: that's the perfect description of it - it's not the fact that it behaves that way, it's the fact that the devs see nothing wrong with it. It really tells you something about the mindset of those devs, which makes you question whether you should be using anything from them.
1461[15:44:21] <ratrace> so it could be backported?
1462[15:44:24] <oxek> yes
1463[15:44:32] <ratrace> !ssb
1464[15:44:32] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
1465[15:44:38] <ratrace> ychaouche: check that then ^^^
1466[15:44:53] * ychaouche reading
1467[15:45:02] <oxek> and install debhelper-compat from backports first
1472[15:47:08] * ychaouche used to configure make make install
1473[15:47:53] <node1> Any application in Debian that will show on my desktop two time zone along with UTC timing?
1474[15:48:15] <ychaouche> <debian-backports> how do I ask the about this ?
1475[15:48:34] <ychaouche> !debian-backports
1476[15:48:34] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
1514[16:08:42] <jhutchins> oxek: Judd is our access to the Universal Debian Database. It has indicies of current program versions and some hardware information, other basic things.
1515[16:10:00] <EdePopede> there's also dpkg, but i think i've spotted a 3rd one recently?
1516[16:11:36] <oxek> we need to find the bots in here and watch them closely, perhaps we'll at least see the uprising coming which might give us a fighting chance
1528[16:19:44] <GenTooMan> the bots I am least worried about it's the people swing the morning stars with the insane grin on their face and T-shirts that say "Club YOU today!"
1549[16:28:16] *** jaggz is now known as jaggzPlea
1550[16:28:56] <tcurdt> dns resolving question: when I have inside resolve.conf a domain and search set, when I do a "dig foo" should it try and resolve "dig foo.domain" first?
1551[16:29:06] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1552[16:31:04] <tcurdt> ah ... ok ... it seems to work when I >don't< use dig
1584[16:58:28] <imMute> I think all you need to do is have the backports repo enabled and apt will pick it up (as it's a higher version number than the non-backports version)
1585[17:00:09] <TheSilentLink> It looks like it's missing an arm64 build for 5.10
1811[18:10:07] <neilthereildeil> im trying to copy my root file system. what does this command do? tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux /
1812[18:10:36] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1823[18:11:43] <imMute> it's the filename, and a dash typically means "write to stdout"
1824[18:12:28] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: so maybe instead of copypasting something you saw somewhere in different context, ask what you want to achieve instead
1829[18:13:33] <neilthereildeil> i need to copy my / filesystem to another partition, overwrite my / partition with an LVM volume, and then copy my / FS back from the other partition
1830[18:13:40] <neilthereildeil> im following replaced-url
1850[18:19:06] <neilthereildeil> also, why does step 4 of that link have a cp command also?
1851[18:19:17] <ratrace> then that - is argument to -f, meanign it outputs the tar stream to stdout. that would require you to pipe it into another tar and into a file, so why not use a proper file/path then
1852[18:19:19] <neilthereildeil> why do i need the cp if i am already tar-ing everything up?
1854[18:19:41] <neilthereildeil> this is what im going to do: tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf
1855[18:19:47] <neilthereildeil> but why do i need to cp after?
1856[18:19:52] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: don't do that
1857[18:20:14] <ratrace> for your purpose, it suffices to tar everything up, then untar back to new rootfs
1858[18:20:26] <neilthereildeil> ok so just this line: tar -cvpf - --one-file-system --acls --xattrs --selinux / | tar -C /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION -xf
1859[18:20:34] <ratrace> there's no reason to tar to stdout, then pipe to another tar and untar into another fs, only to have that reverse later
1860[18:20:37] <neilthereildeil> skip this line: cp -aux /dev /mnt/NEW_ROOT_PARTITION
1870[18:22:29] <ratrace> seems like their line of thinking is that since you tarred up with --one-file-system, you should "copy" /dev which is a pseudofilesystem, but that's stupid, as /dev is automatically populated on boot
1871[18:22:30] <neilthereildeil> it seems my tar is old and doesnt have support for some of these options
1872[18:22:42] <ratrace> I don't know if cp also copies xattrs
1894[18:28:29] <neilthereildeil> how sould i be dealing with symlinks?
1895[18:28:51] <ratrace> that should work according to the manpage, though I can't vouch from experience if there's some unobvious gotcha. I've been using rsync like forever for entire filesystem transfers
1896[18:29:16] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: symlinks are preserved according to the manpage, in -a
1934[18:42:26] <jelly> neilthereildeil, install it
1935[18:42:34] <neilthereildeil> i cant
1936[18:42:48] <jelly> procps package
1937[18:42:56] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: you should really get a _proper_ rescue environment. ubuntu live ISO is a good one, and can apt install stuff, has zfs, and a full blown desktop to enjoy por^W youtube while it copies
1938[18:43:13] *** berndj-blackout is now known as berndj
1939[18:43:19] <neilthereildeil> i mean..i booted to debian "RESCUE" mode
1940[18:43:24] <ratrace> not just for this. it's wise to have one handy in case you need to rescue stuff..... it also sounds like you don't have backups at all, so consider implementing a backup solution asap.
1941[18:43:35] <jelly> I can recommend grml.org as a rescue live image
1943[18:43:50] <ratrace> debian "rescue" mode is not really a proper rescue environment and thenaming is unfortunate
1944[18:43:51] <jelly> it's debian based, has zsh, has screen
1945[18:44:00] <ratrace> is ukranian
1946[18:44:17] <jelly> not Austrian or German?
1947[18:44:21] <ratrace> I don't trust ukranian :) call me raciss.
1948[18:44:32] <jelly> thas raciss.
1949[18:45:29] <ratrace> eventually the best rescue env is if you build your own. I have a full blown debian installation with all the tools I might need (and others are apt install away), wifi configs included for my portrable wifi stick, firmware, drivers installed, etc.... before that, I used ubuntu live ISO.
1951[18:45:53] *** Quits: L (~LoRez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1952[18:45:58] <ratrace> having your own, you preconfigure it for your hardware, especially when it comes to out of tree drivers or firmware needed, and configs for network and wifi.
1953[18:46:02] <jelly> I have grml.org, comes with all the firmware every server I ever used needs
1954[18:46:31] <milkt> cp -a hardlink: replaced-url
1955[18:46:52] <jelly> yay!
1956[18:46:57] <jelly> and sparse files?
1957[18:47:16] <ratrace> am I reading that correct? different inodes?
1958[18:47:25] <jelly> selinux / other xattrs? It probably does posix acls.
1959[18:47:39] <jelly> same inodes.
1960[18:48:19] <jelly> of course copies will probably have different inum from originals, unless you're accidentally lucky
1961[18:48:31] <ratrace> ahhh right, x and y are hardlinked.... I was looking between a and b
1962[18:49:24] <ratrace> wellthen! aside from sparse files, cp -a should do the trick
1995[18:55:56] <EdePopede> "It's gnome." - isn't this already a bug? ;)
1996[18:56:16] <Druid> please dont hate short people
1997[18:56:24] <jelly> "default to COW"
1998[18:56:27] <jelly> !moo
1999[18:56:27] <dpkg> mooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you could be too; join us all! type apt-get moo; aplay /usr/lib/libreoffice/share/gallery/sounds/cow.wav
2000[18:56:42] <neilthereildeil> dude this debian resuce environment sucks
2001[18:56:48] <ratrace> YouDontSay(tm)
2002[18:56:52] <jelly> yeah, we agree
2003[18:56:56] <neilthereildeil> theres no tools there and its all old versions of binaries in a busybox binary
2023[19:00:54] <jelly> only like 15 years since ext4 started keeping track of file creation
2024[19:01:20] <jelly> no more crazy stuff like
2025[19:01:23] <jelly> !crtime
2026[19:01:23] <dpkg> Some filesystems may store creation time after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g., to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime
2027[19:01:34] <dob1> ps aux is cutting the user, what can I do ?
2028[19:01:35] <ratrace> but that's okay. took 21+ years for debian to unconfuse itself and rename <release>/updates into <release>-security finally, properly.
2034[19:03:02] <oxek> ratrace: what do you mean? Afaik it's still messy, debian-security buster/updates
2035[19:03:14] <oxek> vs debian buster-updates
2036[19:03:41] <ratrace> oxek: it comes with bullseye. bullseye-security instead of bullseye/updates
2037[19:03:43] <dob1> jelly, no... but really? it's still calculating 80 col in 2021?
2038[19:04:01] <jelly> we have like 4 meanings for "updates, more if combined with prefixes
2039[19:04:29] <EdePopede> dob1: that's still the default width of an xterm
2040[19:04:51] <dob1> EdePopede, how many ppl use xterm?
2041[19:05:09] <ratrace> I used to cry about 80 cols being super ancient in 21st century..... until I started using tileable WMs and now I'm loving 80 col defaults in tools and things :)
2042[19:05:22] <EdePopede> dob1: i know at least one
2043[19:05:24] <oxek> ratrace: that sounds nice, one less dir indirection
2044[19:05:38] <oxek> looking forward to bullseye for one more reason
2074[19:12:16] <oxek> dpkg is running from some win95 computer in someone's basement
2075[19:12:16] <dpkg> oxek: no idea
2076[19:12:16] <RoyK> nothing later
2077[19:12:21] <EdePopede> !parsing ls
2078[19:12:21] <dpkg> Trying to manipulate the output of "ls" isn't a very good idea at all: the output varies when you change locales or even between different versions of coreutils (let alone between linux and other unices). The output of ls was never designed to be fed into other programs and if you have odd characters like spaces or newlines in your filenames then you will strike trouble. See replaced-url
2079[19:12:24] <EdePopede> this!
2080[19:12:52] <EdePopede> though the only place where i've seen such filenames was on freenode :)
2081[19:13:30] <oxek> RoyK: yeah, don't parse ls, I've learned not to do it recently because it spectacularly failed for me
2082[19:13:45] <EdePopede> avoiding control characters kept me away from related troubles for more than 2 decades now
2083[19:13:46] <oxek> now I do either shell globs or properly pipe find output into stuff
2088[19:15:11] <EdePopede> what i'm missing for find and other alternatives is sorting. sometimes i just have to do it chronologically and that's a pita w/o ls
2089[19:15:14] <dob1> EdePopede, it's not the same, if you have users with common name on ps output you can't distingush them if their login is > 8 chars... you can use id ok but it's not so nice
2111[19:29:28] <wr> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation G73M [GeForce Go 7600] [10de:0398] (rev a1), what would be the correct graphics driver to install on debian 10?
2112[19:30:16] <ratrace> wr: you can use nvidia.com driver search to see which version supports teh card, then compare against versions available in debian
2115[19:31:01] <sney> for something that old, nouveau + firmware will probably give you the same performance as any of the proprietary blobs
2116[19:31:37] <sney> !nouveau firmware
2117[19:31:37] <dpkg> Binary-only firmware for the nouveau <DRM> driver is packaged for Debian as firmware-misc-nonfree. Without this package installed, poor 2D/3D performance and/or missing video features in the <nouveau> xorg driver is commonly experienced. To install, ask me about <non-free sources>.
2122[19:34:04] <oxek> anyone know if nvidia is going to be friendlier to linux? They must be getting loads of money from crypto miners and CUDA, all of which runs on linux afaik
2165[20:08:18] <urk> ndorf> Is there a way to make the panel permanently resident when launching Debian? I have to redoe the steps you suggested every time I bootup: right click the desktop, select applications, select settings, and select panel.
2166[20:08:21] *** Quits: ecdhe (~ecdhe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2173[20:09:29] <milkt> urk: which DE or WM are you using?
2174[20:10:04] <urk> milkt> stable
2175[20:10:20] <milkt> urk: which "desktop environment" or "window manager" are you using?
2176[20:10:30] <urk> xfce
2177[20:10:59] <urk> dpkg -i firmware-names was added for two packages yesterday which may have caused Debbie to have indigestion.
2178[20:10:59] * dpkg installs firmware-names was added for two packages yesterday which may have caused Debbie to have indigestion. into urk's head with a bone saw and a few screws
2179[20:11:34] *** Quits: heydrickx (~benny@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2180[20:12:00] <wr> sney, ratrace i had it working before, thing is with just firmware-misc-nonfree i am at 640resol
2182[20:12:21] <urk> I still don't have internet even though the firmware for the Intel Linux driver was added. My initial thoughts are that the driver now needs to be revisited.
2192[20:16:29] *** jotaxpe_ is now known as jotaxpe
2193[20:18:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1071
2194[20:18:13] <ndorf> urk: sorry, i don't know for sure -- i would expect those changes to be saved automatically. hopefully someone more familiar with xfce can help you more
2195[20:18:25] <urk> jmcnaught> I have not added backports to the /etc/apt/sources.list
2196[20:19:01] <urk> jmcnaught> Since I don't have internet I would assume there is no way to access backports at this point.
2198[20:19:32] <jmcnaught> urk: maybe I'm wrong but last night I thought that you used "dpkg -i …" to install a manually downloaded linux kernel package that was from backports.
2202[20:21:01] <jmcnaught> urk: you need more than just firmware for your wifi to work, you need a newer kernel too. Specifically this one: replaced-url
2204[20:21:35] *** Quits: Kel (~KelMonsta@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2205[20:22:10] <miguel_clean> I just read that "Currently the Debian armhf port requires at least an Armv7 CPU with Thumb-2 and VFP3D16." Does this match this Features : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp neon vfpv3 tls ? of my ARMv7 Processor rev 1 (v7l) ?
2206[20:22:29] *** Quits: basicmiracle (uid213868@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2207[20:22:48] <urk> These are the two files that were installed with "dpkg -i": linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64, and firmware-iwlwifi_20200918-1~bpo10+1_all
2214[20:25:32] <jmcnaught> urk: either you did not properly install the linux-image-5.10...amd64.deb package, or you went out of your way during the GRUB boot menu to use the older kernel.
2220[20:27:35] <urk> Should I try reinstalling: linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64 with dpkg -i ???
2221[20:27:46] <jmcnaught> urk: try to install those packages again with "dpkg -i packagefilename.deb" make sure when you become root you use "su -l" and pay close attend to the output watching for errors.
2228[20:37:02] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2229[20:38:04] <urk> jmcnaught> Are these installed at root@localhost:~# ???
2230[20:39:24] <jmcnaught> urk: I do not understand your question, but it does not matter what directory you are in when you install the packages if you specify the full absolute path to the files.
2231[20:39:51] <jmcnaught> urk: last night you did "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt" followed by "cd /mnt"
2233[20:42:47] <urk> Just received an error that volume was not unmounted cleanly, mountpoint is not empty. This error occurred after entering "mount" /dev/sda1 /mnt
2234[20:44:10] <jmcnaught> urk: what does "ls /mnt" say? Usually that directory is empty.
2237[20:45:48] <urk> jmcnaught> It shows the names of the two linux firmware packages I was installing, and then it shows the rest of the contents of the usb drive, but with a dark green background behind them.
2239[20:48:27] <jmcnaught> urk: "cd" will get you out of that directory back to root's home. "umount /mnt" will unmount the drive (only one 'n' in umount command). Then "ls -lh /mnt"
2240[20:48:55] *** Quits: alpernebbi (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2241[20:49:03] <greycat> also "df /mnt" will show what file system it's part of at the moment
2242[20:49:18] <greycat> when it's unmounted it should appear as part of the / file system
2243[20:49:24] <H-var> hello, I'm getting really choppy performance when watching videos on youtube in 4k. It doesn't happen on windows.
2244[20:49:52] <greycat> Firmware, drivers, etc.
2245[20:50:49] <H-var> is it because graphics card companies do not open the source code for their drivers?
2248[20:51:13] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
2273[20:56:24] <greycat> I see four instances of "1080" on the supported device list for the nvidia 460.39 driver.
2274[20:56:24] <sney> I use firefox for some things and chromium for other things. media performance might be marginally better in chromium. try stuff, see what your results are
2275[20:56:57] <greycat> I also see four 1080s on the 418.113 supported devices list.
2276[20:56:59] <milkt> i had to install nonfree firmware to get nvidia graphic card working with debian though
2277[20:57:21] <H-var> interesting
2278[20:57:35] <H-var> I guess the issues could be in the drivers
2281[20:58:07] <H-var> even though linux drivers are provided by the nvidia corp, they might be inferior in quality compared to the ones written for windows
2282[20:58:07] *** Quits: Nokaji (~Nokaji@replaced-ip) (Quit: "... when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again.” ~ Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) - Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, 1909)
2283[20:58:11] <greycat> assuming of course that your "nvidia 1080" is one of those 4 devices from the list
2284[20:58:17] <H-var> since less funds were spent on them
2285[20:58:47] <jmcnaught> urk: okay then you should be able to mount it to /mnt if it is empty.
2286[20:59:00] <milkt> H-var: try nonfree driver in debian unofficial repository
2287[20:59:11] <greycat> I'd try what the wiki says, first.
2288[20:59:21] <H-var> okay, I will try that in combination with chromium
2303[21:05:13] <urk> I ran dpkg - firmware-name, and the following errors were displayed: deconfiguration is not permitted (--auto-deconfigure might help). And then the next line said errors were encountered while processing.
2310[21:07:08] <greycat> "dpkg -i" expects a filename, not a package name, so you would give it the pathname to the .deb file that you downloaded or sneakernetted
2311[21:07:24] <greycat> "firmware-name" is not a sane filename for a debian pacakge
2312[21:07:30] <urk> greycat> You talking to me?
2313[21:07:39] <greycat> Not any more. *plonk*
2314[21:08:13] <urk> greycat> I used the real file name, but didn't want to type it on here because it is so long.
2316[21:08:29] <jmcnaught> urk: the command should be more like "dpkg -i /mnt/linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb"
2317[21:08:51] <ratrace> isn't the recommendation to use apt, even for local .deb files?
2318[21:09:22] <greycat> I'm so tired of trying to deduce the context that I'm simply *assuming* they are sneakernetting ethernet firmware.
2319[21:09:55] <urk> One other error message before the one on deconfiguration: installing linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 would break wireless-regdb, and then the deconfiguration message.
2320[21:10:06] <jmcnaught> I don't think it matters between apt and dpkg -i for loose files if there are no dependencies, and there would not be for this leaf package or the other firmware-iwlwifi either
2321[21:10:23] <ratrace> I see
2322[21:10:38] <urk> jmcnaught> I Cd to the mount directory before entering the dpkg command.
2323[21:11:15] <jmcnaught> urk: you became root with "su" or "su -l"?
2324[21:11:28] *** Quits: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2328[21:12:22] <milkt> urk: it is better to provide full command and full error message
2329[21:13:02] <urk> milkt> Ok, I will display what is on the screen at the command line in addition to the command.
2330[21:14:06] <greycat> when you're sneakernetting network drivers/firmware it's understandable that you can't paste from there to IRC, because airgap. but you should take extra care to get the command in the right *form*.
2337[21:18:46] <urk> dpkg: error processing archive linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.deb --install): installing linux-image-5.100-0.bpo.3-amd64 would break wireless-regdb, and deconfiguration is not permitted (--auto-deconfigure might help). Errors were encountered while processin: linu-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64_5.10.13-1~bpo10+1_amd64.debxg
2338[21:18:46] <dpkg> urk: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
2372[21:36:27] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: if you made that copy from before to a temporary location, you just reverse the direction to the new rootfs mount on the LV
2373[21:36:35] <ratrace> same thing just reverse direction
2374[21:37:02] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: that copy prolly had an infinite loop since in only crearted /src and use up all the space in the partition
2375[21:37:11] <neilthereildeil> what was that rsync command you guys recommended?
2383[21:40:48] <neilthereildeil> FYI there is a very big sparse file in my FS also
2384[21:41:24] <neilthereildeil> also, this is a GPT disk, but i dont see the UUID for my new partition /dev/sda3 in /dev/disk/by-uuid. is that a problem?
2385[21:41:24] <ratrace> -vaSHAXx to make it more memorable, -v is optional. I'd also add --info=progress2 (instead of -v) so you can see where it's at
2422[21:49:30] <neilthereildeil> its a pandemic haha
2423[21:49:39] <greycat> Why are you even *attempting* this?
2424[21:49:47] <neilthereildeil> yea this IS the backup[
2425[21:49:49] <greycat> Bored?
2426[21:49:56] <neilthereildeil> no, i dont wanna spend 2 weeks deplloying again
2427[21:50:25] <ratrace> I did that a few times, migrated actual live, in production server, btween zfs and btrfs using degraded mirrors and alotta prayer to Great Old Ones
2429[21:50:39] <neilthereildeil> this is not in prod right now
2430[21:50:41] <ratrace> so it's doable.... but.... I had backups....
2431[21:50:42] <neilthereildeil> i scheduled downtime
2432[21:50:47] <neilthereildeil> this IS the backup
2433[21:50:50] <neilthereildeil> worst case ill rebuild it
2434[21:50:59] <neilthereildeil> and spend 2 weeks
2435[21:51:09] <neilthereildeil> but ideally i can do it this way and not spend 2 weeks
2436[21:51:12] <ratrace> well then... you can rsync a live system. that -x will help you don't descend into dev,sys,proc
2437[21:51:43] <neilthereildeil> why isnt it better to boot off the debian ISO and mount the src FS and run rsync from there?
2438[21:51:52] <neilthereildeil> rather than doing this on a booted system
2439[21:51:54] <ratrace> turn off all the services that aren't essential. sync(1) before first rsync run, sync again, do another run, sync again, and if the second round showed changed files, do a third one
2440[21:53:45] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: you can boot off debian ISO but ... oh you want to reuse the rsync binary already on teh disk. sure, I guess that could work. not sure if .so will load properly... I suppose you could hax that too
2465[22:07:01] <lembron> can i "install" a package that is installed already (as dependency) while there is an update available but without installing the update as a simple "apt-get install ..." would do?
2466[22:07:24] <urk> How do I stop "x" in Debian?
2467[22:08:13] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2468[22:08:59] * ratrace blinks thrice
2469[22:09:15] <ratrace> lembron: can you rephrase that?
2470[22:09:19] <ratrace> urk: what's x?
2471[22:09:46] <milkt> X server?
2472[22:10:17] <milkt> lembron: do you mean you want to mark it as manually installed?
2473[22:11:42] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2476[22:12:22] <lembron> ratrace i have php-memcache installed, what "used to" pull in php5.6-memcache, php7.0-memcache php7.2-memcache and so on - now packaging has fixed this, and i can "apt-get update && apt-get install php5.6-memcache && apt autoremove && apt-get dist-upgrade", but i want the "actual upgrade" only to happen in the dist-upg not in the first install (what technically could be a noop) background:
2478[22:12:26] <urk> ratrace> Never mind, I figured it out. Please disregard the post. I was trying to shut off the x window server which is now xorg. Command is Ctrl, Alt F1
2479[22:12:36] <lembron> milkt that sounds about right yes
2492[22:18:23] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2493[22:18:47] <lembron> 5.6-memcached will be kept now on remove, so thats good -- but "it will install new packages that autoremove also declares as no lnger needed" smells like some derpines...
2494[22:19:04] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2507[22:21:45] *** Quits: Roedy (Roedy@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you IRL!)
2508[22:21:55] <urk> jmcnaught> ok, where is it? Is it in the repos? I was just working on the desktop to see if I can fix the panel problem so that I don't have to reinstall the panel with every bootup.
2510[22:22:17] *** Quits: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2511[22:22:29] <jmcnaught> urk: you will also need to install this package: replaced-url
2512[22:22:34] <lembron> and just for understanding maybe: should/could i "remove" php-memcache now safely? - so is the dependency information decoupled from the actual package upgrade?
2770[22:46:49] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: hmm the VG doesnt show up in /dev...
2771[22:46:58] <urk> jmcnaught> Do I need some quotes around this wifi firmware you recommended? I have downloaded it, copied it to memory stick, installed in the new machine, and remounted /mnt
2772[22:47:00] <neilthereildeil> i need to pass the path to the dev VG to vgchange
2793[22:53:43] <urk> I keep getting error message indicating volume wasn't unmounted cleanly when trying to do "mount /dev/sda1 /mnt".
2794[22:53:51] <urk> Not sure why.
2795[22:54:04] <neilthereildeil> what should i be using instead for rescue? preferably a self-respecting ISO with a recent kernel that has rsycn and recent LVM support
2796[22:54:33] <jmcnaught> urk: have you been unmounting the device properly before removing it?
2813[22:58:28] <urk> jmcnaught> No errors this time, but a long list of missing firmware that is too long to post. I am going to copy it to a text file, and paste it in the Debian pastebin.
2814[22:58:50] <jmcnaught> urk: I would worry about that after you get connected to the network
2815[22:59:08] <jmcnaught> urk: as long as the firmware-iwlwifi package was also installed you should be able to reboot and connect to wifi
2817[23:01:18] <urk> status message indicates wifi networks available, but they are not displaying in the wifi icon.
2818[23:01:22] <wr> sney, ratrace i installed nvidia-driver package and it works, i now am on 800px but i seen max resolution would be 1440x900px i guess, since this is a old laptop just in case i need it... i will leave it like this, thanks for the help
2821[23:03:28] <urk> jmcnaught> Looks like some additional firmware will be required in order to get wifi. There was a short list of 6-7 things at bootup. How do I pull this up? dmesg?
2822[23:04:07] <urk> I rebooted again, and this time the wifi connections came up.
2823[23:04:17] <urk> I am now entering the password for the wifi.
2824[23:04:51] *** Joins: mort (~mort96@replaced-ip)
2862[23:36:04] <urk> I am getting an error message when running apt-get update, and wondering what is the best way to fix it. The error message is here replaced-url
2863[23:36:35] <urk> Error message seems to indicate I am running from an unofficial repository. Should I change this to apt-secure, and then set this to the insecure option?
2864[23:37:14] <sney> just remove the cdrom entry from sources.list and run apt update
2865[23:37:25] <sney> you have a network connection now, you don't need it.
2866[23:37:41] <sney> !buster sources.list
2867[23:37:41] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
2868[23:38:18] <urk> sney> Thanks
2869[23:38:58] <urk> What happened to Chromium? I don't see it in the repos.
2870[23:39:36] <sney> chromium is in buster, you are probably just missing something from your sources.list.
2871[23:39:46] <sney> look at the message from dpkg above, and make *sure* that your sources.list matches.