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• 6[00:05:50] <jhutchins> Azrael_-: You learned something without destroying anything! Points ahead!
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• 9[00:08:40] <jjakob> is there a way to get python >=3.6 on stretch
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• 50[00:39:20] <jhutchins> jjakob: The problem is that a lot of system internals use python, and installing a newer version as the system-wide default can break the WHOLE system.
• 51[00:39:42] <jhutchins> jjakob: You're better off using a local install, a container, or a vm.
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• 56[00:46:38] <CommunistWolf> abolish python
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• 75[01:19:57] <bru> embrace C
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• 130[02:25:06] <mirrorbird> how do i upgrade from debian to ubuntu?
• 131[02:25:17] <imMute> mirrorbird: reinstall.
• 132[02:25:25] <mirrorbird> imMute, isn't there a GUI tool?
• 133[02:25:33] <imMute> I doubt it.
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• 136[02:27:33] <nickname123> is it bad to install a deb-file with gdebi if apt doesn't like that file? the file might be made for ubuntu but apt on ubuntu doesn't like that deb-file either
• 137[02:27:35] <nickname123> apt says: E: Problem with MergeList /home/r/Downloads/AfterShotPro3-system-QT.deb
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• 139[02:28:24] <sney> if the package is mangled, then it's libapt or dpkg having a problem with it, and that's going to happen regardless of which frontend you use
• 140[02:29:10] <sney> you can unpack it manually with dpkg-deb -x
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• 144[02:35:15] <nickname123> hm, if "gdebi --apt-line AfterShotPro3-system-QT.deb" doesn't lead to an error message, can i just try it for real or will it break something, so that i should rather use the unpacked files without installation?
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• 147[02:37:58] <sney> the only thing it's likely to break is the program you're trying to install
• 148[02:38:12] <nickname123> ok, that's good, thanks. i'll try it
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• 155[02:52:01] <nickname123> nice, gdebi installed the program and it works
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• 182[03:21:38] <prg3> debian to ubuntu is more of a downgrade, really
• 183[03:22:23] <ectospasm> Ubuntu's release cycle is too fast, most of the releases are half-baked at best. Even their LTS pace is too fast, for a point release model.
• 184[03:22:26] <dvs> heh
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• 187[03:24:49] <nickname123> i prefer debian sid over ubuntu. kwin krashed after an update, but everything else worked fine
• 188[03:25:22] <ectospasm> !sid
• 189[03:25:22] <dpkg> i heard sid is the codename for <unstable>, named after the kid in Toy Story that breaks toys. The great thing about running sid is that when it breaks, you get to keep ALL the pieces!!
• 190[03:25:36] <ectospasm> And break it will!
• 191[03:25:42] <ectospasm> It's just a matter of time.
• 192[03:25:46] <cyveris> lot of odd statements flying around here today
• 193[03:25:54] <cyveris> And very few of them seem to be on topic for the channel
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• 195[03:28:20] <nifker> why does this command not work anymore? replaced-url
• 196[03:28:40] <nifker> nvm
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• 245[04:24:50] <deviantfero> hey guys, how can I report a bug in a package on debian stretch?
• 246[04:25:20] <deviantfero> earlier today I was trying to install libopencv-dev:armhf in a amd64 PC and it gave me this error
• 247[04:25:35] <deviantfero> replaced-url
• 248[04:26:18] <deviantfero> libopencv2.4-java:all exists in the repos, but it seems this package wants libopencv2.4-java:armhf for some reason (or armel, if you choose armel) and that doesn't exist
• 249[04:26:46] <SponiX> This page is no longer available. It has either expired, been removed by its creator, or removed by one of the Pastebin staff.
• 250[04:26:52] <SponiX> is that the error it gave you ?
• 251[04:27:11] <deviantfero> ah, sorry let me paste that again
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• 253[04:28:13] <deviantfero> replaced-url
• 254[04:28:35] <deviantfero> I don't even need java bindings in this use case, so I was able to create a mock .deb using equivs and get on with my work
• 255[04:28:39] <deviantfero> but it was pretty annoying
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• 258[04:29:50] <SponiX> deviantfero: I'm not an expert, but have to wonder - why are you expecting arm packages to be available and install on your amd64 Debian ?
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• 264[04:31:24] <deviantfero> I'm doing cross-compiling
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• 266[04:31:42] <SponiX> deviantfero: had a feeling that was the goal
• 267[04:31:45] <deviantfero> they should be available after I use dpkg --add-architecture armhf
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• 270[04:32:07] <deviantfero> and they do install, gstreamer and all it's dependencies do it without an issue
• 271[04:32:21] <deviantfero> all the build-essentials do too, it's only opencv that has this bizarre issue
• 272[04:32:51] <SponiX> deviantfero: thought about giving this a shot with Debian 10 ?
• 273[04:32:54] <deviantfero> it should be available, libopencv2.4-java is an :all package, meaning it should be available for either arch
• 274[04:33:03] <deviantfero> can't it's for embedded, they're using stretch
• 275[04:33:24] <deviantfero> if it were on my I'd be on unstable lol
• 276[04:33:28] <deviantfero> on me*
• 277[04:34:07] <SponiX> sney: you around ?
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• 281[04:35:57] <SponiX> I don't know the proper place to report the issue. Best I could do is an internet search "where to file bug reports for Debian stretch"
• 282[04:36:12] <SponiX> at times, that sort of thing can still be misleading
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• 284[04:36:47] <deviantfero> but it does sound like an issue that's worth reporting right?
• 285[04:37:12] <deviantfero> jelly said earlier it might be
• 286[04:37:46] <SponiX> deviantfero: IMHO if there is even the outside chance another might face this -- it is worth reporting
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• 289[04:40:14] <deviantfero> yeah I think I can even provide a dockerfile to reproduce this issue consistently
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• 291[04:41:00] <SponiX> deviantfero: this is inside a docker session of stretch ?
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• 293[04:45:20] <deviantfero> what do you mean?
• 294[04:45:41] <deviantfero> this happens in the build process of the image or if I try to install it manually from within the container
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• 297[04:46:22] <SponiX> deviantfero: that is what I was attempting to ask. If this was bare metal native stretch, or inside a docker container
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• 299[04:46:52] <deviantfero> ah, no, inside a docker container
• 300[04:47:10] <SponiX> I know that shouldn't be relevant. But if you have the resources you might try it on stretch either bare metal. or inside a full fat VM (think virtualbox or vmware )
• 301[04:47:25] <SponiX> just to see if the issue exist there also
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• 303[04:47:41] <deviantfero> sounds good
• 304[04:48:34] <deviantfero> I'll stay around for a couple more hours, so if some maintainer becomes available I'd like to know where and how to report this
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• 306[04:51:17] <milkt> deviantfero: maybe look at replaced-url
• 307[04:52:12] <deviantfero> awesome, thanks guys you've been really helpful with my issues :)
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• 528[10:40:23] <StarOnD> Hello, I am looking for a substitute to TimeVault for Debian 10 , any hints for me ?
• 529[10:40:50] <StarOnD> I wish to make snapshots for an ext4 system
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• 532[10:43:32] <milkt> probably you can use LVM to make snapshot
• 533[10:43:47] <craigevil> timeshift?
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• 535[10:44:04] <StarOnD> I have an ext4 partition
• 536[10:44:38] <StarOnD> timeshift looks promising
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• 545[10:54:49] <StarOnD> milkt : I am reading up on LVM thank you
• 546[10:55:08] <ratrace> just note that all these "snapshot" tools are hacks, ext4 does not support atomic snapshots, you'd need a layer under it like LVM
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• 548[10:55:45] <ratrace> that said, I used to like rsnapshot, it's rsync with hard links based "snapshotting"
• 549[10:56:24] <StarOnD> layer of LVM , OVER it or under ext4 ?
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• 552[10:56:48] <ratrace> like I said, under it
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• 554[10:57:34] <StarOnD> ratrace , ok
• 555[10:58:14] <ratrace> alternatively consider copy on write filesystems like ZFS or BTRFS where atomic snapshots are built-in features and far, far more superior to LVM's
• 556[10:58:36] <StarOnD> ratrace, thank you
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• 567[11:12:18] <StarOnD> ratrace, will I have to create a new partition for the directory which I want to be snapshotted?
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• 591[11:48:56] <ratrace> StarOnD: if you're using LVM, you'd have to provide a whole LV which will take differentials while you snapshot another LV. It's not directory based, it's LV device block based. Which means if you want just one directory, you'd have to either snapshot the whole LV, or separate another LV just for that directory mount.
• 592[11:51:00] <StarOnD> ratrace, thank you. In my server I have / as ext4. I am planning to shrink this, create a ZFS on the newly created space and then mount ZFS on /home
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• 595[11:52:18] <tinga> I'm looking (again) for a way to mix multiple audio channels in the kernel. So that I can play and record audio from multiple system users at the same time (and one of them using pulseaudio, the other alsa directly).
• 596[11:53:30] <tinga> ~10y ago I used to build myself a kernel with the old /dev/snd or something device handled by an extended version of Linux' sound driver that existed before the advent of ALSA.
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• 598[11:54:12] <tinga> I forgot the name of that project. And patching and building a kernel is always a pain. So if there's any alternative (or if you remember the name of that sound driver project) please tell.
• 599[11:56:13] <tinga> Also, if the ALSA system can be made multi-user, that should take care of it, too.
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• 601[11:57:12] <shtrb> tinga, oss ?
• 602[11:57:40] <tinga> Yes, OSS. I'm not sure though if that project renamed it slightly, like OSSEXT or something.
• 603[11:58:02] <tinga> Since the original OSS did not do in-kernel mixing. That project did.
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• 605[11:58:13] <tinga> IIRC.
• 606[11:58:20] <shtrb> wait for ratrace to arrive , he might remember
• 607[11:58:54] <tinga> (IIRC the original OSS didn't do in-kernel mixing since most better hardware at the time allowed for multiple channels to be mixed in the hardware, so there was no need for software mixing.)
• 608[11:59:13] <tinga> OK
• 609[11:59:41] <ratrace> StarOnD: before you do that silly thing, I advise you do research what ZFS really is and how it works. It's not just a filesystem, it's a whole volume manager, and doing that just to mount one directory is supreme overkill...
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• 612[12:00:27] <ratrace> ehh OSS is dead. long live ALSA. not sure what ratrace can say more here tho :)
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• 614[12:00:55] <shtrb> for the mixing feature :)
• 615[12:00:56] <tinga> Ah OSSv4 replaced-url
• 616[12:01:29] <ratrace> shtrb: yeah I really don't know. OSS hasn't been a thing in linux for many many years. Yes, it's still there in the code but it's not really been a thing in linux in many years :)
• 617[12:01:33] <tinga> ratrace, see my question, I need to have multiple users read and write sound at the same time with it being copied / mixed.
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• 619[12:01:51] <ratrace> tinga: pulseaudio then?
• 620[12:01:51] <StarOnD> ratrace ok, many thanks.
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• 623[12:03:15] <tinga> ratrace, (1) is it possible to use pulseaudio with multiple users? (2) jackd doesn't work with PulseAudio; I'm using Twinkle without PulseAudio currently, not sure it would.
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• 626[12:03:30] <tinga> With multiple users I mean system users.
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• 630[12:04:19] <tinga> Also, it may be that the reason I'm running Twinkle without pulseaudio is for fear of latency.
• 631[12:06:52] <tinga> (On an older laptop of mine, OSSv4 was also the only way I could get 8000 samples per second from/to Twinkle without antialiasing or missing-lowpass artifacts. In other words, running Twinkle on ALSA sounded shitty, not so on OSSv4. But that's not a problem on my current laptop for some reason.)
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• 635[12:13:03] <ratrace> tinga: yes, it's possible to use the PA sink with multiple users. For example, I have Firefox contained and apparmored in a separate system user account, and it shares my main user's (the one I log into Xorg as) PA socket, I just had to configure it to be tcp because I'm too lazy to fiddle with cross-user unix sockets
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• 637[12:14:06] <tinga> Uh, TCP, ok good to know unix sockets are supported too.
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• 640[12:14:58] <tinga> Will check, thanks
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• 642[12:15:36] <shtrb> ratrace, can you explain how you use your contained ff with aparmor ?
• 643[12:15:46] <shtrb> ssh -X to that acocunt or something else ?
• 644[12:15:59] <ratrace> tinga: default-server=127.0.0.1 in other users' ~/.pulse/client.conf
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• 646[12:16:48] <ratrace> shtrb: no, it's the same xorg, currently, unfortunately, but at least with AA I can patch many other vectors. it's a simple profile I wrote for the FF binary, and it's also running as a separate user that shares the xorg and PA sockets
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• 648[12:17:07] <ratrace> sharing xorg socket is dead easy and actually part of the design, you just need to allow each user with xhost
• 649[12:17:37] <shtrb> but how you start ff from the user connected to the DE ?
• 650[12:17:44] <ratrace> with sudo
• 651[12:17:55] <jhutchins> Strange: dmesg -T is two days behind.
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• 653[12:18:13] <jhutchins> I know network events have happened in that timeframe.
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• 658[12:19:09] <ratrace> shtrb: sudo -iu <firefox_user> DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/firefox --private-window "$URL"
• 659[12:19:41] <shtrb> ahhm ... understood
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• 661[12:20:17] <shtrb> ratrace, in such flow can ff do damage over the system dbus ?
• 662[12:21:01] <ratrace> many intrusion vectors exist with such complex software, so I'd say yes. you can patch some, some you can't. if there were a vuln in dbus, and FF is a dbus client, I'm sure it'd could create a mess...
• 663[12:21:38] <ratrace> AA is supposed to get a more finegrained dbus support in the future releases, I think some even with Bullseyes', I haven't yet looked into that
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• 667[12:32:06] <tinga> ratrace, if you give a program access to X, it can pretty much do anything as you, so there's no secure separation. Just as a heads-up.
• 668[12:32:53] <tinga> This isn't to say I'm not doing the same (using separate users for separate FF instances). But I'm just doing it to easily segregate cookies/logins etc.
• 669[12:34:00] <tinga> If FF fails to contain an attacker, it will get to your main user id anyway (if capable at all).
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• 673[12:39:40] <ratrace> tinga: well that's not quite true. it can affect xorg elements yes, but it can't "pretty much anything as you" unless there's a RCE in xorg itself, which is a BIG if.
• 674[12:40:23] <ratrace> but again, yes I'm aware of Xorgs deficiencies. But that doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't patch _other_ things. Security is about layering and protecting whatever you can because vulnerabilites aren't always omnipotent
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• 676[12:40:40] <ratrace> ie. it's like not locking your house front door becuse _some_ thieves have picklocks...
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• 679[12:44:48] <shtrb> js keylogger that could steal your keys :P
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• 683[12:46:35] <rudi_s> An alternative is xpra with a separate user. Xpra runs its own X and forwards the draw commands over SSH to another system. Of course then you have to trust that xpra isolates the two hosts properly.
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• 685[12:51:04] <ratrace> shtrb: what keys :)
• 686[12:51:26] <ratrace> rudi_s: and that there aren't bugs in display drivers :)
• 687[12:51:41] <rudi_s> True
• 688[12:51:56] <ratrace> there's been a few opengl nvidia bugs that could've been exploited for ring0 rce, maybe, possibly, in the past few months *whistles* :)
• 689[12:51:57] <shtrb> ratrace, not all of us are like you with a hardware on time key generators to login into plasma
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• 691[12:52:14] <rudi_s> But "draw commands" was maybe imprecise. It actually forwards the changes as image or video stream.
• 692[12:52:19] <shtrb> ratrace, wait, WHAT?!
• 693[12:52:20] <ratrace> shtrb: I don't log into plasma :) I'm old skool i3-wm
• 694[12:52:23] <rudi_s> So no direct access to any opengl or stuff.
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• 696[12:52:48] <ratrace> shtrb: oh yes. read and.... weep I guess :) replaced-url
• 697[12:52:54] <rudi_s> (But it can use oepngl for performance.)
• 698[12:53:21] <shtrb> ratrace, I hope that would be for windows only
• 699[12:53:38] <ratrace> rudi_s: well technically, with a compound vuln, one can exploit a draw bug that triggers opengl bug on the xorg clie....uh...server, the one that's actually using gpu
• 700[12:53:44] <ratrace> shtrb: no, read the table :)
• 701[12:53:59] <ratrace> 5142 in particular
• 702[12:54:59] <shtrb> a flaw in the hardware ?!
• 703[12:55:56] <rudi_s> ratrace: Sure, in theory. Howerver, I think it's much more likely for a general bug in X11 (there were quite many of them in the past) than in this scenario.
• 704[12:56:01] <rudi_s> But obviously, nothing is perfect.
• 705[12:56:03] <shtrb> no , reading comprehension , software bugs: -(
• 706[12:56:09] <ratrace> in the driver. also interesting with nvidia is the fact that their cross-OS driver shares a LOT of code in common. that's why you have freebsd nvidia even though nobody in the 1000 light years radius actually cares about nvidia on freebsd :)
• 707[12:56:38] <ratrace> meaning a lot of that code could have vulns that affect all operating systems.
• 708[12:56:43] <rudi_s> Oh, and X11 has a few other issues: e.g. access to all keystrokes, clipboard, etc. for all programs.
• 709[12:56:59] <shtrb> If not the thermal gain , I wouldn't even have switched from the open source driver now
• 710[12:57:01] <ratrace> yes that's one of the nasty bits of Xorg. wayland can't come soon enough
• 711[12:57:19] <rudi_s> In theory it's already there ;-)
• 712[12:57:27] <ratrace> yes but program support isn't
• 713[12:57:40] <rudi_s> True
• 714[12:57:47] <ratrace> FF wayland support, I think it'll come with next ESR, I'm not 100% sure, too into something else RN to check
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• 716[12:58:58] <Gramcor> i changed file /etc/gai.conf . for changes to take effect do i have to reboot? or is systemctl restart networking, enough?\
• 717[12:59:04] <ratrace> at any rate, with bullseye, I'll be switching to sway. I ditched nvidia (gave it to the windows gaming VM via pci passthru), so that final obstacle for me is now gone
• 718[12:59:21] <Gramcor> i run additional services like nginx, ejabberd, nftables etc. they would also have to be restarted
• 719[12:59:30] <Gramcor> does restarting networking handle that?
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• 721[13:00:18] <ratrace> I think you'd have to restart individual programs, as gai is utilized by I __think__ glibc APIs and isn't tied to a network(ing) service
• 722[13:00:29] <ratrace> Gramcor: ^
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• 724[13:01:58] <Gramcor> ratrace, i found an ubuntu q&a that they restart network service. this was for upstart, but i see systemd has a networking service that brings up interfaces essentially
• 725[13:02:23] <Gramcor> might reboot just to be safe
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• 728[13:02:29] <ratrace> Gramcor: gai.conf is read by individual programs directly. it's not something the interface/kernel does
• 729[13:02:29] <shtrb> Gramcor, it would be better to restart service by service, and moving between targets
• 730[13:03:14] <ratrace> ie YOLO it and reboot :)
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• 740[13:16:46] <jelly> Gramcor, pretty much just like when /etc/resolv.conf is changed. Unless a process is specifically written to worry about the changes (web browsers do), it's only read once on first lookup so you have to restart all the services that need to know about the change
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• 742[13:17:35] <jelly> blame glibc and its resolver library. This could be fixed in one place.
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• 747[13:18:45] <jelly> ratrace, you're right, it's config for getaddrinfo(3) and friends
• 748[13:19:16] * jelly learned about it because he has ipv6 behind NAT at work
• 749[13:19:33] <jelly> (yes, really. NAT66, Cisco calls it)
• 750[13:19:55] <shtrb> why not NAT64 ?
• 751[13:20:05] <jelly> because it's ipv6
• 752[13:20:20] <shtrb> oh right :-(
• 753[13:21:01] <jelly> the workstations have ipv6 connectivity, but get private addresses in fc00:
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• 755[13:22:00] <shtrb> When you are so used to nat that you implement it again :)
• 756[13:22:28] <jelly> glibc naturally thinks that set of addresses doesn't meant you have actual global ipv6 connectivity, just like it doesn't think you have ipv6 if you only have fe80::
• 757[13:23:38] <jelly> so apt doesn't access security.debian.org over ipv6 until you mess with /etc/gai.conf a bit
• 758[13:24:16] <jelly> I have no idea why they implemented it. Probably a large enough customer wanted it.
• 759[13:24:57] <jelly> and hey, if a customer insists on something dumb and is willing to $$$$ for it...
• 760[13:25:22] <ratrace> <five years later> you get systemd? :)
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• 762[13:26:12] <shtrb> I'm sure that there is some kind of ISP that think to give each customer a /126 and charge extra for more bytes
• 763[13:27:05] <jelly> !rimshot
• 764[13:27:05] <dpkg> rumour has it, rimshot is #del#
• 765[13:27:12] <jelly> :'(
• 766[13:27:41] <jelly> shtrb, isn't that one called linode
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• 768[13:28:54] <shtrb> I didn't knew linode are ISPs, and I wouldn't expect them to do such stuff, some other US based companies on the other hand ...
• 769[13:29:36] <jelly> $work solves that my not providing ipv6 to customers _at all_
• 770[13:29:42] <jelly> s/my/by/
• 771[13:29:53] <cyveris> weird, linode gave me a routable /56 because i asked for it
• 772[13:30:16] <cyveris> ive never paid a penny for it
• 773[13:30:44] <jelly> might have been some other vps provider
• 774[13:31:30] <cyveris> linode gives you a single address but you can get routable allocations by request, vultr gives each vm a /64, digital ocean gives you like a range of 16 addresses or something and you can't add more.
• 775[13:31:35] <cyveris> aws is... well, aws.
• 776[13:32:15] <shtrb> cyveris, 16 address over ipv4 right ? not over ipv6
• 777[13:32:29] <cyveris> no, you get 1 ipv4 address and a range of 16 ipv6 addresses
• 778[13:32:36] * shtrb faceplam
• 779[13:33:01] <cyveris> Same concept as giving a VM a /64, just... well, not nearly as many addresses in the range.
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• 781[13:33:37] <shtrb> but I want a routable ip address for each service :D
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• 783[13:33:48] <cyveris> Then don't use DO. :P
• 784[13:34:05] <cyveris> Or, run less than 16 services.
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• 802[14:01:24] <tinga> ratrace, it can take screenshots, log key presses (unless specially taken care of, which in the case of key presses in X terminals AFAIK aren't), AFAIK can insert fake key press events thus can open an xterminal, quickly move it offscreen, type commands, close it again.
• 803[14:01:31] <tinga> At least that's my understanding.
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• 816[14:12:46] <tinga> ratrace, there's even a tool in Debian to do that, apparently (haven't used it): xdotool
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• 818[14:17:16] <otisolsen70> Can I use the "certbot" provided from debian repositories in Buster for letsencrypt certs? Or do I need a newer one than the one provided by debian?
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• 820[14:19:57] <shtrb> tinga, would that be accurate that ssh -X would be safer approach (to reduce X attack vector) ?
• 821[14:22:17] <shtrb> or that is exactly the same ?
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• 838[14:55:03] <LtL> otisolsen70: debian certbot works perfectly
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• 841[15:00:19] <otisolsen70> LtL, thanks.
• 842[15:00:31] <otisolsen70> LtL, and how to renew? Should I just schedule a cronjob?
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• 853[15:08:32] <LtL> otisolsen70: certbot sets up a cronjob, it renewed mine the other day, no intervention by me.
• 854[15:09:07] <LtL> otisolsen70: you will see it in syslog everyday.
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• 858[15:12:59] <LtL> otisolsen70: you will find it in, /etc/cron.d/certbot
• 859[15:14:15] <epsilon> otisolsen70: certbot or dehydrated, working fine
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• 863[15:14:40] <LtL> otisolsen70: my mistake, with systemd it sets up systemd.timer
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• 866[15:16:20] <otisolsen70> LtL, ok. Thanks!
• 867[15:16:26] <ODIRF> Hello!
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• 871[15:20:56] <otisolsen70> LtL, just tried it. And it does create /etc/cron.d/certbot - not systemd
• 872[15:21:38] <LtL> otisolsen70: read that file.
• 873[15:22:51] <otisolsen70> LtL, ok
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• 875[15:23:26] <otisolsen70> LtL, so if I go ahead and use certbot to concigure LE TLS on several name-based vhosts, then they will automatically just be renewed by this cron job?
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• 879[15:25:10] <LtL> otisolsen70: i don't use vhosts, but if you entered all the names during configuration, i imagine it will.
• 880[15:25:56] <otisolsen70> LtL, ok
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• 901[15:49:29] <ratrace> tinga: I agree on the keypresses and other xorg functions (clipboard sniffing, screenshotting, etc...) but it definitely can't start a terminal or any other program, that's the apparmor part
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• 906[15:50:33] <TehRabbitt> Morning all \o
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• 908[15:51:22] <TehRabbitt> Anyone ever mess around with getting Debian running (stable) on a Lenovo E585 (AMD Ryzen Based) laptop?
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• 910[15:53:32] <TehRabbitt> I can get the LiveCD to boot fine / no issues with that. but if I try to boot without disabling APIC in grub after install, it fails every time
• 911[15:54:16] <TehRabbitt> (from what I understand, this is related to the implementation fo APIC in these laptops but disabling it causes the fans to run at 100% and they get very warm)
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• 913[15:55:40] <megaTherion> jochum: hi, were you the guy helping me with my cam issue 1-2 days ago?
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• 915[15:56:14] <shtrb> TehRabbitt, can you try booting with linux kernel 5 ?
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• 917[15:56:38] <TehRabbitt> shtrb: good question, I did not try that.
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• 919[15:56:51] <TehRabbitt> Does the LiveCD use kernel 5 vs the standard Debian 10?
• 920[15:57:39] <shtrb> It depends on what live cd you had used :)
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• 923[15:58:33] <TehRabbitt> shtrb: used the netinst for Debian 10.3 IIRC.
• 924[15:58:45] <shtrb> or it could be that it boots with noapic too
• 925[15:58:53] <shtrb> TehRabbitt, then I do not know
• 926[15:59:44] <shtrb> Lenovo support page also mention a need to upgrade the bios (but I wouldn't suggest any user to upgrade Bios without verifying a ton of options)
• 927[16:00:22] <zathras> On Buster an upgrade of Matomo gives: Unable to read INI file {/usr/share/matomo/config/config.ini.php}: Syntax error in INI configuration
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• 929[16:00:48] <TehRabbitt> The other interesting thing, Is I tried a few other debian-based distros (ubuntu, mint, kali) and they all acted similar, USB boot worked fine, but when it came to actually booting off an installed OS, it failed. also interesting enough, when I did get it (sort of) working with noapic, audio broke completely in both windows and debian in a dual-boot (something to do with secure boot allegedly)
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• 931[16:00:51] <zathras> seems ok te me. Used to run fine
• 932[16:01:19] <tinga> ratrace, but it's not the hijacked FF (HJFF) that's exec'ing the terminal, it's the panel you're using. HJFF just sends a click to the panel where the terminal icon is.
• 933[16:01:19] <TehRabbitt> @shtrb yeah, IIRC, I upgraded the BIOS to latest version and that's how I got it to boot using the installer to begin with
• 934[16:01:35] <shtrb> lol
• 935[16:01:39] <zathras> also: Your host may have disabled parse_ini_file() <-- has not changed afaik and is not explicitly disabled
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• 937[16:01:41] <TehRabbitt> I'm about to try again with the latest image, see if anything's changed in 3-4 months
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• 940[16:02:17] <shtrb> TehRabbitt, if you already have a system already , you can try to get kernel 5 and up from bckports
• 941[16:02:19] <shtrb> !backports
• 942[16:02:19] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
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• 944[16:02:33] <TehRabbitt> shtrb: I was gonna ask, do you know if there is an installer disk that comes with kernel 5?
• 945[16:04:51] <tinga> ratrace, better formulated: "but it's not the hijacked FF (HJFF) that's exec'ing the terminal; the panel you're using is doing that on HJFF's behalf. HJFF just sends a click which happens to have the x and y positions of where in the screenshot the attacker could locate the terminal icon on the panel."
• 946[16:05:41] <TehRabbitt> (does Debian 11 / testing come with it by default?)
• 947[16:06:09] <tinga> ratrace, (And just to be clear, the HJFF won't need to run an external process to take a screenshot either, it can just use the X connection that FF already has open.)
• 948[16:07:56] <TehRabbitt> nvm, just looked it up, yeah, so apparently i'm seeing 5.10 available: replaced-url
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• 952[16:11:53] <shtrb> TehRabbitt, it's enough to add backports sources in an installed OS and install it .
• 953[16:12:04] <TehRabbitt> okay
• 954[16:12:33] <shtrb> I'm not sure it would solve the issues for you, but a link I had found did mention that issues had been solved i 5.0.X
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• 956[16:13:42] <TehRabbitt> yeah, i saw a few posts here and there saying issues were fixed with kernel > 5.0 but IIRC, while it fixed some issues like being able to boot, it didn't fix the noapic requirement
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• 962[16:29:38] <ratrace> tinga: I guess that's possible. Thankfully no clicks or panels on my i3, so I wasn't even confronted with that problem :)
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• 964[16:30:24] <tinga> no clicks?
• 965[16:30:37] <tinga> What does that mean?
• 966[16:30:37] <ratrace> no clickable app launcher is what I mean
• 967[16:30:51] <tinga> How do you start a terminal yourself, then?
• 968[16:30:59] <ratrace> I use i3-wm + dmenu, which is 10-fingered interface, not an anemic 1-finger one :)
• 969[16:31:23] <tinga> So the attacker will just watch your keystrokes, sees what you used to start a terminal, then issue the same himself.
• 970[16:31:44] <ratrace> besides, this is all theoretical. The malware that could do all that would have to be either an AI, or stream what it sees to a human operator who can then know where and what to click
• 971[16:32:34] <ratrace> I don't beleive that even proof of concept exists for that. So far it's all been in the realm of possibility.
• 972[16:34:24] <ratrace> primary problem is that initial intrusion that requires full, unconstrained RCE. That's the biggest IF in the problem. Hugest. Everything that follows is a hypothetical what-if speculation within theoretical possibilities of xorg APIs. It's a nonzero possibility, yes, but let's not ignore teh elephant in the room which is the intrusion vector.
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• 974[16:35:32] <ratrace> a malware with full RCE will likely try to do something entirely different and not even bother with trying to figure out the interface layout. it'd try to exec(ve)() directly and bootstrap second stage kernel exploit
• 975[16:36:01] <ratrace> I constantly see this while constraining wordpress sites. every damned intrusion is trying to bootstrap the kernel exploit second stage
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• 977[16:36:05] <tinga> You're relying on security by obscurity.
• 978[16:36:32] <ratrace> Not really. It's called "balance of probabilities". otherwise don't bother to lock your doors because some thieves may or may not have a lockpick
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• 980[16:36:41] <tinga> Believe whatever you want to believe.
• 981[16:36:45] <tinga> I'm tired, moving on,.
• 982[16:37:18] <ratrace> so yes I'm fully aware that xorg can, theoretically, be exploited like that. But that's not something I can fix at all, that's in the core of Xorg. I _can_ however: a) replace it with wayland some day, or b) cover the OTHER vectors that a malware might try
• 983[16:37:40] <ratrace> it's not a belief. it's factual information based on many years of actual experience and observation in what malware and intrusions are trying to do
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• 985[16:37:59] <tinga> All I told you is that you were thinking too much of the security in X. And you thank me for it by saying it's "all theoretical".
• 986[16:38:05] <tinga> So, tired. Moving on.
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• 989[16:38:22] <ratrace> I wasn't thinking about security of X at all. Because S in Xorg stands for Security.
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• 992[16:38:50] <ratrace> I was thinking about security of _other_ vectors. the reason I run FF as another user, apparmored, is orthogonal to theoretical possibilities of subverting xorg
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• 994[16:39:10] <tinga> Look, that's what I told you in the beginning.
• 995[16:39:15] <tinga> I'm *tired* now.
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• 999[16:40:42] <shtrb> ratrace, does ssh -X give anything better than using sudo as you do ?
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• 1001[16:41:26] <ratrace> shtrb: it takes away a huge lot of performance
• 1002[16:41:26] <tinga> shtrb, you can use untrused X without using ssh
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• 1004[16:41:42] <ratrace> shtrb: the only performant way to remote xorg is x2go because it uses lossy compression on the stream
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• 1006[16:42:02] <ratrace> I even recompiled ssh to use null cipher, so no encryption overhead, pure, unadulterated tcp stream. it was terrible.
• 1007[16:42:03] <tinga> shtrb, the problem with untrusted X is that most advanced programs like Firefox won't work with it
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• 1009[16:42:43] <tinga> shtrb, you set up untrused X via the "untrusted" argument to xauth
• 1010[16:43:02] <shtrb> I understand it takes performance , but my question was if there would be any less potential vectors like that
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• 1012[16:43:55] <tinga> shtrb, as I told you, ssh -X is the same as xauth with "untrusted", you can set it up that way wihtout involving ssh. You *are* closing the hole I was talking about. But it will prevent Firefox from working (IIRC).
• 1013[16:44:54] <ratrace> shtrb: probably not, different vectors, but in the end, if it can take a screenshot, it can steal info
• 1014[16:44:55] <shtrb> tinga, I didn't see you say that the same (missed that)
• 1015[16:45:09] <tinga> (ssh -Y is full X access, in comparison, will enable Firefox to work but with huge overhead and the same security issues we were talking about)
• 1016[16:45:23] <shtrb> back to VM :)
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• 1018[16:45:46] <tinga> Yes, or you could use a VNC server+client pair.
• 1019[16:46:08] <shtrb> I support VNC machines, I would rather just shutdown my pc
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• 1021[16:46:46] <tinga> Or Xnest potentially, I don't know it in detail.
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• 1023[16:48:54] <ratrace> x2go
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• 1028[16:57:32] <oxek> tinga: -X and -Y are the same for ssh on debian, beware. You can change it in the config though.
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• 1030[17:00:57] <tinga> Wow, that's fucked up? It didn't use to be the case.
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• 1047[17:08:01] <tinga> It's as if Debian hasn't been burned enough by custom changes to ssh yet. :(
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• 1049[17:08:33] <tinga> (Can confirm that Debian patches readconf.c to default options->forward_x11_trusted to 1)
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• 1061[17:16:05] <tinga> Looks like that change was done (2004) *before* the ssh key debacle (2008). I really hope this casual handling of security relevant code has changed after the latter event.
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• 1065[17:16:57] <tinga> I'd certainly have welcomed/welcome if that change were removed.
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• 1071[17:18:28] <tinga> (ssh key creation bug was *introduced* in 2006, according to replaced-url
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• 1080[17:22:07] <tcurdt> before I try dpkg-reconfigure locales ... what's so wrong about LANGUAGE = (unset), LC_ALL = (unset), LC_CTYPE = "UTF-8", LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
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• 1082[17:22:49] <tcurdt> I remember having issues with that before. Just don't remember the details :-/
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• 1084[17:25:00] <tcurdt> and is there a way of running "dpkg-reconfigure locales" without the console UI?
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• 1087[17:26:30] <tcurdt> ah ... update-locale
• 1088[17:26:32] <tcurdt> I think
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• 1097[17:29:48] <tcurdt> "perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings: ... are supported and installed on your system." ... they are!
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• 1100[17:31:17] <tinga> tcurdt, one is the default locale setting, the other is the generation of the files supporting the chosen locale
• 1101[17:31:47] <tinga> You may have a setting for which the files weren't generated
• 1102[17:32:55] <tcurdt> not sure how. all is point at en_US.UTF-8 ... any pointers where to check?
• 1103[17:33:16] <tcurdt> "locale" also says ... locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
• 1104[17:33:40] <tcurdt> hm ... LC_TYPE is just UTF-8
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• 1106[17:33:54] <tcurdt> on a fresh buster install
• 1107[17:34:00] <tcurdt> could that be a problem?
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• 1109[17:34:29] <tinga> I didn't know of update-locale before, and am trying to figure out what it's doing exactly.
• 1110[17:34:57] <tinga> For your question about running dpkg-reconfigure, you can select the UI to use via --frontend=...
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• 1114[17:37:00] <tinga> I'm confused myself. Currently I can run LANG=bo_CN.UTF-8 perl -w -e 'print "hi\n"'
• 1115[17:37:12] <tinga> and it will not print any warnings, even though I never enabled that locale anywhere.
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• 1117[17:37:28] <tinga> But if I chose something invalid, LANG=ab_CD.UTF-8 perl -w -e 'print "hi\n"'
• 1118[17:37:31] <tinga> then it will warn.
• 1119[17:38:01] <tinga> Maybe Buster has all of the possible locale files pre-generated?
• 1120[17:38:17] <tcurdt> locale -a shows a long list
• 1121[17:38:19] <tcurdt> for me
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• 1123[17:38:38] <tcurdt> that said - I still don't get why that should be a problem
• 1124[17:38:39] <tinga> It used to be that if you didn't enable locales in "dpkg-reconfigure locales", you'd get the perl warning
• 1125[17:39:02] <tcurdt> this has always been a PITA
• 1126[17:39:05] <tinga> Perl warns if you set a locale env for which it can't find the files.
• 1127[17:39:08] <tcurdt> I should have written this down
• 1128[17:39:35] <tcurdt> but what files does it not find?
• 1129[17:39:59] <tinga> The files that describe all the details of number sorting and display, alphabetical sorting etc. for that locale.
• 1130[17:40:27] <tcurdt> cat /etc/default/locale only has LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
• 1131[17:40:31] <tcurdt> maybe that's the cause?
• 1132[17:41:13] <tinga> the env vars only say which country/language you want to use; somewhere the computer needs to have the info what is to be used for that country/lang. That's the files that come with the locales package in raw form, and it used to be that dpkg-reconfigure locales would select which of those raw files would be turned into binary files actually accessed by the perograms like perl.
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• 1134[17:42:11] <tinga> locale-gen is the program that turns raw into binary representation
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• 1136[17:42:50] <tcurdt> right ... but [*] en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8 is checked in dpkg-reconfigure locales
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• 1138[17:43:09] <tinga> Then perl should not warn
• 1139[17:43:20] <tinga> if you use LANG=en_US.UTF-8
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• 1141[17:43:55] <tcurdt> what should I pick for the default locale? Default locale for the system environment: None/C.UTF-8/en_US.UTF-8
• 1142[17:44:05] <tcurdt> en_US.UTF-8 should be fine, no?
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• 1144[17:44:21] <tinga> yes
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• 1147[17:45:16] <tcurdt> yeah ... that's does not survive a re-login
• 1148[17:45:32] <tinga> what does "locale" say?
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• 1150[17:45:44] <tcurdt> locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
• 1151[17:45:49] <tcurdt> locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory
• 1152[17:45:52] <tinga> k
• 1153[17:46:04] <tcurdt> I assume because nothing is defined for LC_CTYPE and LC_ALL?
• 1154[17:46:10] <tcurdt> just LANG
• 1155[17:46:14] <tinga> shouldn't matter
• 1156[17:46:45] <tinga> I have no LC_* vars set, just LANG, and "locale" will fall back to using LANG for most of the settings
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• 1158[17:46:58] <tinga> so what is echo $LANG ?
• 1159[17:47:05] <tcurdt> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
• 1160[17:47:32] <tcurdt> well ... with echo it's just "en_US.UTF-8" :)
• 1161[17:47:32] <tinga> ehr, that is printed from where?
• 1162[17:47:44] <tcurdt> that was from locale ... sorry
• 1163[17:48:12] <tinga> ok, what does that show?: bash -c 'echo $LANG'
• 1164[17:48:33] <tcurdt> en_US.UTF-8
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• 1166[17:49:04] <tinga> I was suspecting you didn't export LANG, but that does not seem to be it
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• 1168[17:49:31] <tinga> (You did run the whole thing includinb bash -c , didn't you?)
• 1169[17:49:40] <tcurdt> it says "locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory" with LC_CTYPE=UTF-8
• 1170[17:49:53] <tcurdt> I did :)
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• 1172[17:50:22] <tinga> LC_CTYPE should be something like en_US.UTF-8, just UTF-8 may be invalid
• 1173[17:50:37] <tcurdt> that's what I am thinking
• 1174[17:50:41] <tcurdt> but where is that set?
• 1175[17:50:49] <greycat> wherever you set environment variables
• 1176[17:50:57] <tinga> again, "locale" the tool will fill in the other variables from what you give.
• 1177[17:51:06] <tinga> if you just set LANG, then it will use that as LC_CTYPE as well
• 1178[17:51:21] <greycat> in the output of locale, the quotes are significant -- they demark which values are explicitly set, and which are derived
• 1179[17:51:25] <tinga> it's confusing that locale prints it out the same as env variables are shown.
• 1180[17:51:44] <tcurdt> let me create a gist
• 1181[17:52:26] <greycat> I use LANG=en_US.utf8 and LC_TIME=C
• 1182[17:52:59] <tcurdt> replaced-url
• 1183[17:54:27] <tinga> what is: echo $LC_CTYPE
• 1184[17:54:46] <tinga> ah you're showing it.
• 1185[17:54:52] <tinga> unset LC_CTYPE; locale
• 1186[17:54:59] <tinga> that should take care of it
• 1187[17:55:12] <tcurdt> better
• 1188[17:55:20] <tinga> You've got that setting somewhere in your bash startup files, most likely
• 1189[17:55:24] <reinob> tcurdt: do you have the "locales" package installed? depending on how you installed debian, it could be that it's not there.
• 1190[17:55:41] <tinga> reinob, I think we've already found the issue
• 1191[17:55:47] <tcurdt> it's installed
• 1192[17:55:52] <reinob> OK :)
• 1193[17:56:04] <tcurdt> I just don't understand where LC_CTYPE is set then
• 1194[17:56:19] <greycat> tcurdt: /msg greybot where
• 1195[17:56:20] <tinga> grep LC_CTYPE ~/.{bashrc,bash_profile}
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• 1197[17:56:54] <tcurdt> tinga: not there
• 1198[17:57:05] <tinga> OK follow greycat's suggestion
• 1199[17:57:39] <tcurdt> I am not sure I understand that suggestion yet :)
• 1200[17:57:46] <greycat> Variables can be hard-coded in things like login, or they can be configured in PAM, or they can come from your shell, or they can come from your desktop environment, ....
• 1201[17:58:01] <tinga> run the IRC command that greycat showed
• 1202[17:58:01] <greycat> greybot's factoid only covers the shell ones
• 1203[17:58:45] <greycat> PS4='+ $BASH_SOURCE:$FUNCNAME:$LINENO:' bash -ilxc : 2>&1 | grep LC_CTYPE
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• 1205[17:59:16] <tcurdt> does not work as root it says
• 1206[17:59:22] <greycat> well duh, don't do it as root
• 1207[17:59:34] <greycat> you want to know where YOURS is coming from, right? so you do it as you.
• 1208[18:00:14] *** Quits: Dragon092 (~Dragon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1209[18:00:15] <tcurdt> well, it's a "cloud" image for buser and there is only root so far
• 1210[18:00:23] <greycat> *facepalm*
• 1211[18:00:29] <greycat> Good luck with that.
• 1212[18:00:33] <tcurdt> :)
• 1213[18:01:07] <tinga> I'd just set it to a sane value in your .bash_profile instead and take it up with the image authors.
• 1214[18:02:12] <tinga> Or, you could grep across the whole file system for LC_CTYPE and see if you can find it. Or create a user and see whether greybot's way works.
• 1215[18:02:19] <tcurdt> I guess I could just create a user, login as the user and use the little bash thingy to find out
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• 1221[18:05:59] <greycat> if you create a user, first see whether the variable is even set at all
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• 1223[18:06:31] <greycat> it might turn out that it's set for everyone, or only for root
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• 1228[18:11:24] <tcurdt> it does get set for the user ... but the snippet does not show anything
• 1229[18:12:00] <greycat> then it's probably configured in PAM, so you would look in PAM's configs (/etc/environment and /etc/default/locale and so on)
• 1230[18:12:58] <tcurdt> greycat: /etc/default/locale only sets LANG and /etc/environment is empty
• 1231[18:13:19] <greycat> is this an ssh login or a console login?
• 1232[18:14:07] <tcurdt> ssh
• 1233[18:14:35] <greycat> grep env /etc/pam.d/sshd
• 1234[18:14:47] <greycat> see if that shows you any filenames you can look at. also /etc/security/pam_env.conf
• 1235[18:15:13] <greycat> (which is actually mentioned in a comment in mine)
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• 1238[18:15:59] <tcurdt> same here ... but nothing to find in there cat /etc/security/pam_env.conf | grep LC_
• 1239[18:16:08] *** Quits: w00dsman (~w00dsman@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 3.1-dev)
• 1240[18:16:14] <tcurdt> this is getting crazy
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• 1244[18:17:02] <tcurdt> uuuh ... idea
• 1245[18:17:25] <tcurdt> it's comming from the my machine!
• 1246[18:17:30] <tcurdt> via ssh
• 1247[18:17:42] <tcurdt> /etc/ssh/sshd_config:AcceptEnv LANG LC_*
• 1248[18:17:50] <greycat> right
• 1249[18:18:21] <tinga> heh:)
• 1250[18:19:52] <tcurdt> thanks for help, folks!
• 1251[18:20:15] <tinga> np
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• 1253[18:21:51] <tinga> That was an interesting ending, I never thought about env vars being inherited across ssh.
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• 1255[18:22:34] <tcurdt> it still is a bit strange ... as my local ssh config is only meant to send SendEnv LANG
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• 1259[18:24:28] <tinga> You could try "nohup ssh -vvv $user@$server" and look for LC_CTYPE
• 1260[18:24:33] <tinga> in nohup.out
• 1261[18:25:32] <tinga> Also, ssh's config is both /etc/ssh/ssh_config as well as ~/.ssh/config
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• 1263[18:27:59] <RealKoshelev> Hello! I'm in trouble, could you tell me how to access the GRUB menu while switching on my PC? (I already tried to press shift or escape while switching on but it doesn't work). Thank's!!!
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• 1265[18:28:26] <tcurdt> tinga: indeed /etc/ssh/ssh_confi it was!
• 1266[18:28:43] <tcurdt> removed that and now all is good :)
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• 1268[18:29:48] <tinga> Well, you should instead really fix your local machine's shell/pam/bash configuration not to use an invalid LC_CTYPE value in the first place.
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• 1273[18:36:16] <RealKoshelev> I've really tried all the combinations that I've found on the net but none of then work's ;(
• 1274[18:36:30] <tinga> RealKoshelev, it usually comes by default on Debian, maybe you're on Ubuntu or so? If you can see it for a short time only, just use cursor up or down. Here's one replaced-url
• 1275[18:37:34] <tinga> You could make a usb (flash) drive with a boot image and then configure it from there. But I'm off to work now, someone else will have to help.
• 1276[18:38:29] <tinga> (Or send you to #ubuntu or whatever distro you're using, if not Debian.)
• 1277[18:39:43] <RealKoshelev> Ok thank's! I'm actually using debian 9. If someone could explain how to make this usb so?
• 1278[18:40:02] *** Quits: mcope (~mcope@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 1279[18:42:26] <tinga> Check replaced-url
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• 1282[18:44:20] <RealKoshelev> Ok thank's and what should I do after that?
• 1283[18:44:24] <tinga> There's also replaced-url
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• 1286[18:45:38] <tinga> You'll then want to mount your computer's internal disk, in particular the boot partition (probably separate). On the boot partition there will be a directory "grub" with a grub.cfg file.
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• 1288[18:46:07] <tinga> In that file there should be configuration that says to hide the boot menu, or a timeout set to 0. Either remove the option to disable the menu or increase the timeout to 10 or so.
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• 1290[18:46:33] <tinga> Then reboot without the USB drive.
• 1291[18:46:43] <tinga> Now I really have to go. Good luck! :)
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• 1293[18:47:50] <tinga> PS. this assumes you're on the PC architecture (x86/AMD64), not some ARM based device, since otherwise it will probably not even be running grub for booting.
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• 1296[18:48:29] <RealKoshelev> Ok no problem, thank you so much! I'll try that.
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• 1300[18:50:22] <tinga> Also this assumes that you can't boot currently as otherwise you can do the grub.cfg editing simply from the running system.
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• 1302[18:51:42] <tinga> (In that case the boot partition will be mounted already and /boot/grub/grub.cfg the path to edit)
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• 1371[19:56:46] <e-baley> :q
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• 1400[20:22:23] <shtrb> What happen to jessie when LTS had ended, just no bug fixes and no security patches , correct ?
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• 1406[20:30:20] <wwilliam> Is there any place in i can look if zoombies were created at some point ? may be some log somewhere?
• 1407[20:30:22] <wwilliam> Thank you.
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• 1412[20:37:49] <greycat> !zmobie
• 1413[20:37:53] <greycat> !zombie
• 1414[20:37:53] <dpkg> A zombie process is one which has issued an exit(), but whose parent has not yet issued wait() (or one of its variants) to retrieve the exit code. This usually means the parent process is buggy. You can't kill a zombie, because it's already dead; you have to kill the parent, or just ignore the zombie.
• 1415[20:38:30] <greycat> Every process that exits is a zombie for the brief time between its termination and the parent's reaping of the exit status. Normally this happens so fast that you don't see it.
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• 1420[20:41:14] <jjakob> jhutchins: I wasn't meaning system-wide, I meant for one specific thing that can use a venv
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• 1424[20:44:06] <jjakob> and yeah, I agree CommunistWolf
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• 1427[20:45:39] <jjakob> I can't find a way, other than compiling python from source, like you can on ubuntu with the deadsnakes ppa
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• 1437[20:53:19] <wwilliam> Thanks greycat I thought some log would save what process created a zoombie.
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• 1439[20:56:24] <greycat> !wayttd
• 1440[20:56:24] <dpkg> What Are You Trying To Do?
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• 1447[21:03:27] <wwilliam> They asking me what created the zoombies on an alert.
• 1448[21:03:58] <wwilliam> They dont exist anymore so i dont know what to say because they dont exist anymore.
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• 1460[21:14:42] <RKoshelev> Hello! I'm again in trouble! Could someone tell me how can I change the password of an account from the GRUB menu please? I tried to enter the command passwd followed by space and  my login (Aleksei kj) but it displays lots of options (-a, --all / -d, --delete...) and none of them works. Help me please.
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• 1463[21:15:20] <RKoshelev> (I did it from the root console)
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• 1465[21:15:45] <greycat> GRUB doesn't know anything about users and passwords. You have to boot into Linux for those to exist.
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• 1468[21:16:51] <RKoshelev> But I already changed my root password from GRUB
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• 1470[21:18:12] <cyveris> RKoshelev: Your username does not contain spaces.
• 1471[21:18:26] <cyveris> Maybe the friendly display form does, but the username itself does not,
• 1472[21:18:39] <cyveris> So double-check what you're entering when you try to log in.
• 1473[21:18:56] <RKoshelev> Ok I'll try now.
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• 1475[21:20:05] <RKoshelev> It tells me that user "Alekseikj" does not exist
• 1476[21:20:16] <cyveris> Then that is not the username you created.
• 1477[21:21:35] <RKoshelev> It shows me that username when I try to enter a session
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• 1479[21:22:12] <cyveris> Does it have a space in it?
• 1480[21:22:20] <RKoshelev> Yeah
• 1481[21:22:42] <cyveris> Then its showing you the "friendly" text field associated with that user. That is NOT the real username.
• 1482[21:23:34] <cyveris> If you can see the contents of /etc/passwd (any user can), you can determine the real username.
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• 1486[21:24:50] <RKoshelev> It tells me "permission denied"
• 1487[21:25:11] <cyveris> What are you entering?
• 1488[21:25:41] <shtrb> RKoshelev, sometimes an underscore is look like a space
• 1489[21:25:52] <shtrb> so it could be "Aleksei_kj"
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• 1491[21:26:05] <RKoshelev> Ow ok i'll try
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• 1493[21:26:36] <shtrb> the easist way be sure is to look inside /etc/passwd or even just ls /home (assuming you are using regular config)
• 1494[21:27:39] <cyveris> NAME_REGEX by default will not allow underscores in usernames.
• 1495[21:28:05] <jmcnaught> Where are you logging in? If you are selecting your user in a display manager graphical login, then all you need to know is the password.
• 1496[21:28:08] <cyveris> So unless you've modified /etc/adduser.conf, or created a user some other way, the username does not have an underscore in it.
• 1497[21:28:14] <RKoshelev> But when I tap /etc/passwd it tells me permission denied
• 1498[21:28:16] <f-a> is there a way on bash to remap, say ❬Shift-⇥❭ to another sequence of keys (in my case, <space><backspace><tab>)?
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• 1501[21:29:12] <shtrb> RKoshelev, cat /etc/passwd
• 1502[21:29:30] <greycat> (type that as a command in a terminal)
• 1503[21:29:36] <greycat> (no "tapping" whatever that is)
• 1504[21:29:53] <marianna> Hi, I've just installed phpmyadmin and I cannot create tables with phpmyadmin user...
• 1505[21:30:06] <marianna> I'm googleling it but with no luck
• 1506[21:30:23] <cyveris> marianna: I would strongly suggest learning how to use the mariadb shell client rather than phpmyadmin.
• 1507[21:31:03] <sney> marianna: phpmyadmin will need privileges on your database. I thought debconf would offer to set this up for you in the package install, but it's been a while. cyveris is correct, and you will need to do this anyway if you really want phpmyadmin to work.
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• 1509[21:32:00] <sney> mariadb has a very good, detailed manual. replaced-url
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• 1512[21:32:46] <marianna> but how can I grant privileges to phpmyadmin if the root user has no password?
• 1513[21:33:24] <marianna> "dbconfig-common: flushing administrative password"
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• 1516[21:34:53] <sney> a default installed mariadb on debian 10 will log in to the db as root if you run 'mysql' as root
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• 1519[21:38:18] <marianna> oh, ok
• 1520[21:38:21] <marianna> Thanks!
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• 1522[21:40:27] <jhutchins> I thought maria was the one that set a temporary root password and wrote it to the log.
• 1523[21:40:49] <jhutchins> Maybe that's percona, and maybe only on redhat-derived systems.
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• 1525[21:41:04] <sney> mariadb might do that too, I haven't gone through the install recently. but it does log in passwordless from the system root account as well.
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• 1527[21:41:24] <jhutchins> sney: Well, it would do one or the other.
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• 1530[21:42:16] <sney> oh? heh, shows you how often I install a database server
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• 1539[21:49:32] <jochum> megaTherion: yes
• 1540[21:49:52] <megaTherion> jochum: tried the xanmod-edge kernel, no dice
• 1541[21:50:05] <megaTherion> so even not on 5.11.x I guess simply unsupported
• 1542[21:50:08] <jochum> megaTherion: thats sad
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• 1544[21:50:28] <jochum> megaTherion: did you try 4.9/5.4 kernel?
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• 1546[21:50:42] <megaTherion> the white(?) led never lights up, so I guess it fails to correctly enable the cam
• 1547[21:50:42] <jochum> (with/o livecd)
• 1548[21:50:47] <megaTherion> nope didnt try 4.9.x
• 1549[21:51:16] <jochum> <5.10 is your last chance
• 1550[21:51:18] <jochum> ,kernels
• 1551[21:51:19] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.13-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.13-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.10.13-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.14-686 (4.19.171-2~deb9u1); jessie-
• 1552[21:51:20] <judd> backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
• 1553[21:51:38] <megaTherion> kernel roulette
• 1554[21:51:42] *** Quits: tnewman (~tnewman@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1555[21:51:43] <jochum> hehehe
• 1556[21:52:47] <jochum> megaTherion: personaly i would test with Live Windows USB, i believe you said you don't want to do that :)
• 1557[21:52:56] <jochum> To know it even works
• 1558[21:52:56] <sney> all of the pre-5.10 5.x kernels are on snapshot, quickest way to find them is to click the 'l' under "binary packages" on the left, then use your browser to search.
• 1559[21:52:58] <sney> !snapshot
• 1560[21:52:58] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 1561[21:53:01] <megaTherion> well Im just too lazy...
• 1562[21:53:04] <HelloShitty> Hello peeps. Is this book still usable and updated: replaced-url
• 1563[21:53:19] <megaTherion> I need a working solution by tomorrow, so my working solution will be just another cam I attach
• 1564[21:53:32] <jochum> megaTherion: sounds good
• 1565[21:53:59] <jochum> megaTherion: but also listen to sney, its easy to install a old kernel package
• 1566[21:54:18] <megaTherion> ya I guess I can try teh 4.9.x thing
• 1567[21:54:22] <jochum> HelloShitty: hey shitty, how's your repeater?
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• 1570[21:55:15] <sney> HelloShitty: that one hasn't been updated in a long time. there's network information in the debian administrator's handbook, which is current. (also, the NAG will still apply in a lot of cases, because tcp/ip is the same as always)
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• 1573[21:56:30] <HelloShitty> jochum: it's the same. Not working but I still haven't messed up with it again
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• 1575[21:56:36] <HelloShitty> sney: ok, thanks
• 1576[21:57:18] <HelloShitty> sney: you mean this one: replaced-url
• 1577[21:57:41] <sney> no, I mean the debian administrator's handbook. replaced-url
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• 1579[21:58:27] <HelloShitty> oh ok, thanks
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• 1658[23:17:33] <jochum> !de
• 1659[23:17:33] <dpkg> Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - debian-user-german@lists.debian.org
• 1660[23:18:11] <slowly_stuck> how do I install /lib/modules and kernel headers for a new kernel? I have a xen guest that's running paravirtualized, so the kernel and ramdisk are passed from the host. When I try and "update the kernel" by changing the kernel passed from host, it is a mismatch with modules/headers on the guest.
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• 1667[23:24:39] <jochum> slowly_stuck: sounds you need the kernel from the guest and pass that one
• 1668[23:24:53] <jochum> slowly_stuck: never used Xen though
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• 1670[23:25:48] <slowly_stuck> jochum: yes, that's how it works to start. But when the host updates kernels, the guest doesn't install new modules+headers. So it is stuck on the old kernel.
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• 1672[23:27:34] <jochum> slowly_stuck: do you need to install the kernel on guest and the copy it back to xen?
• 1673[23:27:47] <jochum> slowly_stuck: that way you have everything in the guest you need
• 1674[23:28:30] <jochum> slowly_stuck: someone i know did/does that with a range of VM's all boot the same kernel
• 1675[23:29:02] <jochum> slowly_stuck: you might wanna have a look at Proxmox PVE btw. :) (KVM based)
• 1676[23:29:03] <slowly_stuck> jochum: so it is the linux-image package that installs modules+headers?
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• 1678[23:29:26] <jochum> slowly_stuck: modules, yes. headers theres a linux-headers package for that
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• 1681[23:31:04] <jochum> slowly_stuck: a warning about kernels with xen, it needs to be a xen enabled kernel. Please look at that.
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• 1683[23:31:50] <slowly_stuck> ahh, thanks jochum. how can I tell if a debian kernel package is enabled for xen?
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• 1685[23:32:16] <jochum> slowly_stuck: idk, may ask google :/
• 1686[23:32:32] <jochum> maybe every amd64 kernel is xen enabled
• 1687[23:32:37] <jochum> now
• 1688[23:33:32] <jhutchins> There's a way to display kernel options.
• 1689[23:34:15] <jhutchins> Enabling VM features is a question on the expert install. I think it defaults to on.
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• 1692[23:35:23] <jochum> cat /boot/config-5.11.0| grep CONFIG_XEN results in y
• 1693[23:35:26] <slowly_stuck> thanks, jochum and jhutchins. Got info with cat /boot/config-`uname -r` | grep xen. (And the kernel from backports I want to use is indeed enabled)
• 1694[23:35:29] <jochum> thanks jhutchins
• 1695[23:35:37] <dvs> old kernel!
• 1696[23:36:22] <jhutchins> ,kernels
• 1697[23:36:23] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.13-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.13-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (5.10.13-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.14-686 (4.19.171-2~deb9u1); jessie-
• 1698[23:36:24] <judd> backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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• 1700[23:36:42] <jochum> my friend is making kernels for me :)
• 1701[23:36:58] <jochum> I have always the latest vanilla kernel with debian config :)
• 1702[23:37:49] <jochum> slowly_stuck: you want/need to use XEN ?
• 1703[23:37:55] <jhutchins> jochum: You might want to experiment with the realtime kernel for audio work.
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• 1705[23:38:12] <jochum> jhutchins: not doing audio work
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• 1707[23:38:26] <slowly_stuck> jochum: I'm already using Xen. Not wedded to the platform, but not familiar with proxmox.
• 1708[23:39:07] <jochum> slowly_stuck: xen is very complicated, been ditching it just after i got to work at my current workplace
• 1709[23:39:49] *** Joins: TrentP (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1710[23:40:17] <jhutchins> !proxmox
• 1711[23:40:17] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
• 1712[23:40:33] <jhutchins> jochum: Must have crossed a thread somewhere.
• 1713[23:40:55] <jochum> jhutchins: i talked about jack in oftc, maybe cause of that :)
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• 1715[23:41:57] <jhutchins> jochum: What are you trying to pull from the ubuntu ppa?
• 1716[23:42:21] <jochum> jhutchins: nothing, i have some PPA's here, just tried to help someone out
• 1717[23:42:35] <jochum> jhutchins: somehow add-apt-repository is broken in testing
• 1718[23:42:54] <slowly_stuck> !xen
• 1719[23:42:54] <dpkg> Xen is an open source virtual machine monitor / hypervisor, allowing several guest operating systems to execute concurrently on the same system. Provides paravirtualization (requiring guest OSs to be modified/ported) and hardware-assisted virtualization (for running guests unmodified). For detailed help, see replaced-url
• 1720[23:43:42] <slowly_stuck> jochum: may we continue convo in #debian-offtopic? I'm still curious
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• 1724[23:44:11] <jochum> slowly_stuck: i'm there
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• 1726[23:46:12] <jochum> !admins
• 1727[23:46:16] <jochum> !admin
• 1728[23:46:16] <dpkg> admin is probably like a omnipresent god, or replaced-url
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• 1743[23:46:26] <jochum> need someone in #debian-offtopic
• 1744[23:47:26] <sney> the command is !ops or you can poke #debian-ops
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• 1770[23:56:08] <jochum> sney: thanks
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