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• 49[00:40:49] <javi404> is there a guide that has a simple example of what i need to put in tftp to boot debian 10?
• 50[00:40:53] <javi404> PXE
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• 52[00:41:58] <sney> javi404: tftp is covered in 4.5 of the install guide, replaced-url
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• 66[00:53:12] <chocolate> I'd be very glad if someone try to help me install calibre-web, because I'm stuck on that output replaced-url
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• 68[00:54:31] <sney> ,v calibre-web
• 69[00:54:33] <judd> No package named 'calibre-web' was found in amd64.
• 70[00:54:45] <sney> chocolate: that's a python error, where did this package come from?
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• 79[00:57:00] <chocolate> sney replaced-url
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• 83[01:01:29] <sney> chocolate: python apps should always be installed in a virtualenv/venv, so you don't break the system python with pip.
• 84[01:01:47] <milkt> is there any reason why apt-offline is not included in debian 10? also is there any way to install package to offline device, safer and easier than just generating list of package and installinag with apt-cache and apt-mark and dpkg?
• 85[01:02:20] <sney> chocolate: but also, this looks like it's probably an upstream bug. make sure you're installing a release, rather than from master. if you have the same problem in a venv with the 0.6.11 release, contact the developer for further support.
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• 88[01:04:01] <sney> milkt: apt-cdrom is the recommended method afaik. you can download the whole (main) archive in various iso sizes and use it offline to your heart's content
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• 94[01:05:46] <Vhost> hallo
• 95[01:06:03] <Vhost> need help
• 96[01:06:08] <sney> !ask
• 97[01:06:09] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
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• 99[01:06:53] <milkt> sney: thank you for info, but does not it mean that i will need quite large size of dvd or evey blueray version of iso?
• 100[01:06:57] <disi> hello, can anyone tell my about posix_local (Debian patch to Python's sysconfig module I think)?
• 101[01:07:04] <Vhost> sney
• 102[01:07:04] <Vhost> replaced-url
• 103[01:07:12] <sney> Vhost: a paste is not a question
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• 105[01:07:32] <Vhost> i show mistake
• 106[01:07:38] <milkt> s/evey/even/
• 107[01:08:22] <Vhost> sney problem whith yarn
• 108[01:09:31] <sney> Vhost: this isn't a drive-through, describe your whole problem, what you are trying to do, what you already tried, and your debian version. then maybe someone can help you.
• 109[01:10:02] <milkt> i currently have somewhat recent updated version of debian 10 on offline device, 4-5 week old i guess, and trying to find optimal way to upgrade system or install new package with help of device which have internet connection
• 110[01:10:03] <Vhost> Linux fromhell.ee 4.19.0-14-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.171-2 (2021-01-30) x86_64 GNU/Linux
• 111[01:10:09] <Vhost> whant install kiwiirc
• 112[01:10:38] <sney> milkt: yeah, technically. though if you're looking for a specific package set I think it's pretty trivial to generate your own iso.
• 113[01:11:02] <milkt> i see
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• 116[01:11:29] <Vhost> sney
• 117[01:11:30] <Vhost> replaced-url
• 118[01:12:21] <sney> Vhost: I didn't say *I* could help you. I don't use node. the node in buster might be too old for the software you're using, that's only a guess though.
• 119[01:13:04] <Vhost> sney , okey , need install web irc
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• 121[01:13:18] <Vhost> can you help ?
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• 123[01:15:53] <milkt> !bat
• 124[01:15:53] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 125[01:16:32] *** Parts: Vhost (~fromhell@replaced-ip) ("Closing Window")
• 126[01:16:42] <sney> milkt: via jigdo, there are 'update' dvd images for 10.8 that might have what you need. but I just checked, and apt-offline is available in buster-backports, so maybe install and use that if you're already accustomed to it
• 127[01:16:53] <milkt> Vhost: do you have any unofficial repository in your source list?
• 128[01:17:45] <milkt> sney: i see, yeah then i will just stick to manual way of manual query/download/install, thank you though
• 129[01:18:13] <sney> np
• 130[01:18:34] <chocolate> sney the last release just gie another error replaced-url
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• 132[01:19:14] <sney> chocolate: ImportError means you are missing a dependency. make sure you did not skip the requirements.txt step.
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• 136[01:21:43] <chocolate> sney thanks it worked
• 137[01:23:11] <sney> np, always make sure to read the instructions :)
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• 153[01:51:25] <javi404> sney: thanks
• 154[01:51:37] <Randolf> Someone told me that Debian is on an outdated Linux kernel that's insecure (they're trying to convince me to switch to a different Linux, but I have no intention of doing this because Debian Linux has made my system administration life so much easier).
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• 157[01:52:11] <ectospasm> Randolf: they probably say the same thing about RHEL
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• 159[01:52:42] <Randolf> ectospasm: I don't know, I didn't ask. :D
• 160[01:53:26] <aminvakil> Buster uses 4.19 which is an lts kernel and includes backports from newer kernels
• 161[01:53:28] <ectospasm> Debian and Red Hat have entire teams that backport security fixes to their standard kernels, so that "someone" doesn't really know what they're talking about.
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• 163[01:53:42] <Randolf> Cool.
• 164[01:54:14] <Randolf> I'll be setting up another new Debian Linux server this weekend. I'm glad Debian is sticking with the LTS kernel.
• 165[01:54:16] <ectospasm> Just because Debian is on 4.19 doesn't mean that security fixes found in later kernels aren't updated for 4.19, if it's deemed vulnerable.
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• 169[01:54:58] <ectospasm> The difference between Debian and Red Hat (now IBM) are Red Hat pays engineers to do it, Debian is all volunteers.
• 170[01:55:52] <Randolf> And then there's Novell with SuSE Linux. I went the NetBSD route at that time for a number of reasons, and now I'm moving almost every server to Debian.
• 171[01:56:02] <Randolf> Debian has been fantastic.
• 172[01:56:05] <chocolate> what shell script command should I use to replace a line in a file?
• 173[01:56:14] <ectospasm> chocolate: sed
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• 175[01:56:32] <ectospasm> chocolate: `info sed` to learn how to use it.
• 176[01:56:52] <Randolf> ectospasm: Thanks for explaining about the LTS version of the kernel. That makes sense and seems be in line with stability being the higher priority.
• 177[01:56:55] <chocolate> and to find that line in a file?
• 178[01:57:15] <chocolate> grep?
• 179[01:57:17] <ectospasm> chocolate: sed can find the line.
• 180[01:57:25] <ectospasm> grep if you're just looking for the line.
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• 182[01:57:40] <chocolate> thanks
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• 184[01:58:46] <ectospasm> You can use `grep -n '<pattern>' <file>` to find the line number of the line in the target file.
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• 186[01:59:31] <ectospasm> chocolate: Then you can use 'sed -i '<N>s/<pattern>/replacement' <file>` where <N> is the line number you found with grep.
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• 188[02:00:09] <ectospasm> Or, if you don't want to muck about with line numbers, you can do `sed -i 's/<pattern>/<replacement>/` <file>`
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• 190[02:00:36] <ectospasm> Be sure to backup <file> before you start.
• 191[02:01:04] <ectospasm> That last sed command will change every instance of that <pattern> to <replacement>
• 192[02:01:15] <ectospasm> Which may or may not be what you want.
• 193[02:02:13] <ectospasm> If the pattern will appear multiple times on a line (and you want to change all of them), use `sed -i 's/<pattern>/<replacement/g' <file>` to change all instances of <pattern> to <replacement>
• 194[02:02:33] <ectospasm> You can do a lot of things with the regular expressions (the <pattern> in these commands).
• 195[02:02:44] <ectospasm> the sed info pages go into them at great lenght.
• 196[02:02:47] <ectospasm> length*
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• 198[02:04:26] <chocolate> and what's wrong with this: sed 's/GPCS/EGPCS/g' /etc/php/7.0/apache2/php.ini
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• 214[02:13:28] <sparky> that will do the substitution, and print it on stdout. is that what you want?
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• 223[02:19:35] <Taserface> hi, what are my options for running testing/unstable apps in a stable install?
• 224[02:20:06] <sney> Taserface: backports (either from buster-backports or compiled yourself) or running testing in a VM or chroot
• 225[02:20:28] <sney> directly installing binary packages from testing/unstable on stable is how you get a broken system, what we call "frankendebian"
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• 228[02:23:49] <Taserface> it seems not all packages are backported
• 229[02:24:04] <Taserface> the chroot idea is appealing, if it can be made to work
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• 231[02:24:50] <sney> right, some packages can't be backported without huge numbers of build-deps being backported first. others just weren't requested or the justification wasn't enough to do it.
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• 233[02:25:12] <eb0t> hey i am using venv... but it seems a bit long activating source /the /entire/path/of the/project/bin/activate
• 234[02:25:16] <eb0t> is there a quicker way
• 235[02:25:22] <eb0t> i used to do workon project
• 236[02:25:30] <eb0t> boom i was in
• 237[02:25:45] <abrotman> Taserface: some you can build yourself, depends what you're looking for. Is this for a desktop/laptop?
• 238[02:26:12] <sney> Taserface: I've heard recommendations for schroot if it's a gui app, though haven't tried it myself. replaced-url
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• 240[02:27:28] <Taserface> desktop. I just want to be able to run the "latest" $desktop_app on the same desktop, while staying with stable overall, because it's, you know, stable
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• 246[02:31:24] <ratrace> eb0t: you can set your PATH directly into the /path/to/venv/bin/ if your project installs scripts there. "activating" the venv does PATH munging anyway, exposing python and bins inside it to higher priority from system python. that's all there is to it
• 247[02:31:58] <ratrace> there is no other magick; just PATH modification.
• 248[02:32:05] <eb0t> ok ratrace ill try that thanks
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• 253[02:35:16] <eb0t> hmm or even just bang a quick line in my bashrc... workon<proj>=source /path/to/venv/bin/activate
• 254[02:35:20] <eb0t> thanks
• 255[02:35:22] <tomman> hi there
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• 257[02:35:43] <tomman> I've just bought a SDXC card, and as you know, SDXC cards come preformatted to exFAT
• 258[02:35:59] <tomman> by default it seems Debian uses exfat-fuse, but there is now a native driver in kernel
• 259[02:36:12] *** Quits: fredl (~fredl@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 260[02:36:20] <tomman> how do I force the use of said native kernel instead of the slow, heavy CPU bound FUSE driver?
• 261[02:36:30] <tomman> is it enough to just uninstall exfat-fuse?
• 262[02:36:33] <sney> tomman: correct, if you are on buster you can upgrade to the 5.9 kernel in buster-backports to use the mainline driver. it's not available in 4.19.
• 263[02:36:56] <tomman> I already use the kernels from backports, indeed I'm right now on 5.9 on Buster
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• 265[02:37:24] <sney> ok, then in that case removing exfat-fuse should probably do it.
• 266[02:37:34] <tomman> sney: OK, will try then
• 267[02:38:12] <tomman> I'm testing the card with f3 so I know I actually bought a 64GB card and not some fake-flash thing, but on a native PCI laptop SD reader it took over 8 hours just to fill the card
• 268[02:38:25] <tomman> but it's reading quite fast for an ancient SD controller from 2006...
• 269[02:38:41] <tomman> what I can't stand is the heavy CPU load...
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• 271[02:40:52] <Taserface> tomman: you also have the option of manually mounting from the cmdline if you can't get the automount stuff to cooperate
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• 273[02:43:16] <sney> tomman: I suppose you should also make sure you have exfatprogs installed and not just exfat-fuse.
• 274[02:43:38] <tomman> sney: there is exfat-utils, so I guess that's the one
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• 276[02:43:54] <sney> ,v exfatprogs
• 277[02:43:55] <judd> Package: exfatprogs on amd64 -- bullseye: 1.0.4-1; sid: 1.1.0-1
• 278[02:43:58] <tomman> it has been installed since forever? I can't remember having installed any exFAT stuff at all
• 279[02:44:00] <tomman> oh
• 280[02:44:02] <sney> welp
• 281[02:44:22] <tomman> no, there is no exfatprogs on Buster
• 282[02:44:30] <sney> -utils is the fuse author's implementation, progs is from samsung. but maybe they both work with the kernel driver, I don't have an exfat fs here to test
• 283[02:44:51] <chocolate> I'm getting this output error xvfb-run: error: xauth command not found
• 284[02:44:53] <tomman> sney: same here, until today there haven't been any instances of exFAT filesystems in this house
• 285[02:45:13] <chocolate> and tried all google solutions and didn't work... I'm getting this output error xvfb-run: error: xauth command not found
• 286[02:45:31] <sney> chocolate: a web app should not call xauth, ever. is this still your calibre issue from earlier?
• 287[02:46:21] <chocolate> yes it is a headache sney
• 288[02:46:55] <chocolate> I'm following this now to create a db replaced-url
• 289[02:47:06] <tomman> sney: well, at least exfatprogs is very light on dependencies, so I guess I'll build my own .debs just to be on the safe side
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• 291[02:47:22] <sney> chocolate: ok. well, xauth is an old broken way to let anything access your gui. don't use it.
• 292[02:47:56] <chocolate> knowing that I'm stupid what should I do then?
• 293[02:48:21] <chocolate> to accomplish my goals by your advice
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• 295[02:49:27] <Taserface> heh, the smartass maintainer of the schroot manpages entered "daemons" as "dæmons"
• 296[02:51:24] <sney> chocolate: start by closing that window (since it's for ubuntu 14 it is outdated anyway regardless of xauth), then install calibre from debian with apt-get, then follow the documentation from upstream. replaced-url
• 297[02:51:31] <ratrace> probably a tpyo
• 298[02:51:44] <sney> or a non-us keyboard with some kind of auto-formatting
• 299[02:51:50] <tomman> sney: both exfat-utils and exfatprogs seem to be interchangeable, and exfat-utils doesn't even depend on exfat-fuse (although it has it as a recommended package)
• 300[02:52:05] <tomman> Anyway, once f3 finishes checking my card, I'll purge exfat-fuse and try...
• 301[02:52:09] <chocolate> thanks sney
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• 311[03:08:14] <Taserface> where should I set env vars so they show up in console/ssh sessions and in terminals opened in an X session?
• 312[03:08:25] <Taserface> .xsessionrc doesn't seem to work, at least not in buster
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• 315[03:12:43] <Taserface> nvm, my fault, it's this particular account that's borken somehow.
• 316[03:12:52] <Taserface> broken
• 317[03:12:54] <Taserface> borked
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• 332[03:30:56] <tomman> sney: Confirmed - indeed, by purging exfat-fuse, the in-kernel exFAT driver takes over
• 333[03:31:05] <tomman> sweet~
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• 335[03:31:20] <tomman> no need to reboot or edit anything
• 336[03:31:21] <sney> nice
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• 380[04:55:39] <hanasaki> how do you change the order/position of gnome extensions in the panel?
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• 383[04:59:46] <ax5623> hanasakig as far as I know, you cannot adjust from debian. You have to go to each individual extension and use the extension placing functions "far left, center, right" etc. Ive' set up a few on the left, center and right.
• 384[05:01:00] <ax5623> and even them, the extensions might switch placement at reboot (left side extensions might be in different order but will all still be on the left side if that what was chosen through the extension.
• 385[05:01:14] <ax5623> hope that helps
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• 416[05:33:47] <Taserface> FUCK YES
• 417[05:34:15] <Taserface> I have testing lmms inside a chroot, and lmms stable outside, running sideby side
• 418[05:34:29] <Taserface> talking to the same jackd
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• 425[05:53:06] <Taserface> (btw that last part took some work)
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• 572[10:16:45] <eb0t> hey is there are way to check list all the venvs on a system which can be activated.
• 573[10:17:03] <eb0t> i sometimes forget which environment i need to use when i have several..
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• 578[10:22:29] <eb0t> i used to be able to do ..workon return
• 579[10:22:42] <eb0t> and a list of every single venv would be displayed
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• 589[10:37:06] <jelly> Taserface, extra jack socket inside chroot?
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• 599[10:53:30] <ratrace> eb0t: there's no central database of venvs. They're just dirs.
• 600[10:54:02] <ratrace> eb0t: so one pattern is to group them all under one directory, in one place. They can really be anywhere.
• 601[10:54:12] <eb0t> thanks ratrace, there are not too many venv options , but its ok...i decided on one directory
• 602[10:54:18] <eb0t> and actually do the work in another
• 603[10:55:17] <ratrace> eb0t: if you use an IDE like PyCharm, it is aware of all venvs associated with projects.
• 604[10:55:54] <eb0t> ah great....i think ill look into that....i have been using tmux and vim and it has worked pretty well
• 605[10:56:14] <eb0t> my machines are very very old and so tmux and vim has been really thin ide
• 606[10:56:18] <ratrace> PyCharm is fenomenal. there's vim bindings plugins and I'm using that, and can't imagine writing python in anything else
• 607[10:56:46] <eb0t> good stuff ...ill get it installed and see what its like
• 608[10:57:01] <ratrace> one tiny problem with that. it's not packaged on debian, but there's Snaps of it, if you use Snaps.
• 609[10:57:16] <ratrace> I (and many others) just unpack their official tarbals into a dir, they're self-sufficient like that.
• 610[10:57:22] <eb0t> yes i came across snaps a few weeks ago
• 611[10:57:52] <jelly> does debian do snapd
• 612[10:57:55] <jelly> ,v snapd
• 613[10:57:56] <judd> Package: snapd on amd64 -- stretch: 2.21-2+b1; buster: 2.37.4-1+b1; bullseye: 2.48.2-3; sid: 2.48.2-3
• 614[10:57:56] <Taserface> jelly: I had to share basically all of /run & /dev (multiple bind mounts for each), then copy libjack.so* from the buster side (where jackd was running) to the testing side
• 615[10:58:01] <ratrace> I unpack them under /opt/pycharm/<specific version> and then I symlink /opt/pycharm/<specific version/bin/pycharm.sh into my ~/bin/ which is in my PATH, for i3-wm's dmenu
• 616[10:58:22] <ratrace> that way I can roll back a version in case the newest borks something (has happened)
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• 619[10:58:52] <ratrace> jelly: yes, I used the pycharm snap for a while before I nuked that radioactive turdpile of nonsense on fire
• 620[10:58:55] <jelly> that's a lot more involved than what I'd expect, Taserface
• 621[10:59:06] <jelly> esp. the need for /dev
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• 623[10:59:48] <jelly> ratrace, don't tell anyone but some people in Canonical share the opinion
• 624[10:59:56] <ratrace> oh I know :)
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• 626[11:01:12] <ratrace> debain really needs another repo component. main, contrib, non-free and sns . I bet people could be found to package, official, sns stuff that otherwise doesn't conform with packaging policy, like pycharm (moves too fast, no LTS)
• 627[11:01:22] <ratrace> I'd personally sign up to maintaining pycharm .deb like that.
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• 633[11:02:50] <jelly> ratrace, what if it were called, say, volatile
• 634[11:03:21] <ratrace> but that's discontinued, innit?
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• 636[11:03:43] <JackFrost> Sounds more like fasttrack, actually. "Stuff unfit to ever be in stable"
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• 639[11:08:19] <ratrace> jelly: looking through archives, seems like volatile was discontinued with squeeze to become squeeze-updates. So I reckon that's the typical -updates repo we have today for releases? that ain't the same tho
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• 642[11:10:51] <jelly> the word "volatile" would be an apt description for such quickly updating software and packages
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• 652[11:30:56] <ratrace> jelly: yes, but there's history behind debian-volatile so that might be perceived as resurrecting it
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• 658[11:40:33] <jelly> ratrace, I don't have a problem with that :-D
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• 671[12:00:57] <shtrb> jelly , sorry for such an idiotic question, but as a power teams-user - do you have an idea where the export option within the teams app (deb or flatpak) ? I can't find that button :-(
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• 674[12:08:05] <jelly> shtrb, export option?
• 675[12:08:51] <jelly> I don't know what that is
• 676[12:09:05] <apollo13> you are entering a walled garden and looking for an export? :D
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• 680[12:11:20] <jelly> generally speaking MS has APIs to grab data programatically from, there are backup solutions for O365 so apparently there are ways
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• 683[12:12:47] <jelly> shtrb, I don't know what Windows Teams app looks like, so I don't know if there's anything missing
• 684[12:15:22] <shtrb> I didn't find the buttong in the windows version either :D
• 685[12:16:00] <shtrb> the only thing I had found was if you have a microsoft account via a web site, but I'm searching for an easy option that can be done from debian
• 686[12:16:15] <shtrb> I just wish to backup all chats, files etc
• 687[12:16:33] <shtrb> *I'm not the office365 admin
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• 690[12:19:55] <jelly> shtrb, if you're in EU, you can file a subject access (personal data) request, let me see where that's done for O365
• 691[12:20:19] <shtrb> Even if that is an organization account ?
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• 693[12:20:46] <jelly> then you ask your O365 admin
• 694[12:20:57] <shtrb> ahh ok :)
• 695[12:21:22] <jelly> (or your Data Officer, I guess)
• 696[12:21:49] <jelly> Data Protection Officer
• 697[12:22:45] <jelly> shtrb, extra question: who do you ask if you've set up a personal teams account where you basically have a o365 tenant just for your one email address
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• 699[12:25:36] <shtrb> why would anyone have personal teams account ?
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• 702[12:26:26] <jelly> shtrb, job interview over teams.
• 703[12:27:14] <shtrb> oh
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• 727[12:41:24] <wyre> is there some way to automate the .deb package creation? I mean some build system?
• 728[12:43:07] <shtrb> wyre, what do you mean, it's a command to build the .deb, you can also have several tools to make .deb in cmake for example
• 729[12:44:11] <shtrb> wyre, I use CPack for non DGFS deb packages for myself
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• 732[12:49:48] <eb0t> hey i am using venv, but wondering if i should use pipenv
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• 738[12:52:54] <eb0t> not sure if pipenv is a new thing which makes venv redundant
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• 745[13:00:06] <wyre> hi guys, which package is pillow for python3? replaced-url
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• 773[13:26:33] <jelly> wyre, use "apt-cache show packagename" to look at the long description for each of those
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• 776[13:27:12] <jelly> ,v python3-pil
• 777[13:27:13] <judd> Package: python3-pil on amd64 -- jessie: 2.6.1-2+deb8u3; jessie-security: 2.6.1-2+deb8u4; stretch: 4.0.0-4+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 4.0.0-4+deb9u1; stretch-security: 4.0.0-4+deb9u1; buster-security: 5.4.1-2+deb10u1; buster: 5.4.1-2+deb10u2; bullseye: 8.1.0-1; sid: 8.1.0-1
• 778[13:27:23] <jelly> wyre, which debian release is this?
• 779[13:27:48] <wyre> jelly, buster
• 780[13:28:43] <jelly> ,i python3-pil
• 781[13:28:45] <judd> Package python3-pil (python, optional) in buster/amd64: Python Imaging Library (Python3). Version: 5.4.1-2+deb10u2; Size: 385.8k; Installed: 1441k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 782[13:29:11] <jelly> wyre, is that homepage the home page for your pillow thing?
• 783[13:30:02] <jelly> wyre, fwiw, I did: apt-cache search pillow
• 784[13:30:02] <wyre> jelly, yes it is
• 785[13:30:20] <jelly> sometimes less is more
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• 789[13:32:18] <wyre> jelly, what's the difference between apt and apt-cache?
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• 791[13:32:44] <wyre> and when I do `apt-cache search pillow` I cannot see python3-pil
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• 793[13:33:01] <wyre> sorry, when I use `apt search pillow` I mean
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• 796[13:34:51] <phogg> apt(1) is an alternate way to do some things which might previously have been done with apt-cache, apt-get, aptitude, or other commands.
• 797[13:35:32] <phogg> Sometimes the older tool behaves slightly differently, and sometimes long habit means we still use apt-cache when apt might do just as well.
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• 817[14:05:35] <jelly> wyre, apt-cache is older.
• 818[14:06:06] <jelly> apt search foo would not have worked on Debian 7 or so
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• 829[14:29:03] <wsky> make me
• 830[14:29:18] <wsky> otherwise fu
• 831[14:29:24] <wsky> and if so, the police
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• 833[14:32:21] <jelly> wsky, wrong channel?
• 834[14:32:35] <wsky> nope, areyou in a wrong one?
• 835[14:33:00] <jelly> wsky, I do not see anyone addressing you recently
• 836[14:33:17] <wsky> that does not matter
• 837[14:34:18] <jelly> wsky, my point is: keep this channel for tech stuff, and avoid emotionally charged responses, I don't want to see you banned.
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• 839[14:34:33] <popk> hi
• 840[14:34:54] <apollo13> popk: go back where you are coming from *scnr, saw your hostname*
• 841[14:35:03] <jelly> wsky, this is #debian support channel.
• 842[14:35:15] <jelly> apollo13, like, estonia?
• 843[14:35:25] <apollo13> jelly: like "fromhell"
• 844[14:35:37] <popk> what a problem >
• 845[14:35:53] <apollo13> popk: no, all fine, was just being funny :)
• 846[14:35:59] <jelly> apollo13, a comic book / graphic novel classic.
• 847[14:36:27] <popk> some one can help whith yarn ?
• 848[14:36:31] <apollo13> jelly: jupp :)
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• 850[14:37:41] <popk> some one can help whith yarn ?
• 851[14:37:49] <jelly> popk, probably not, but ask your question and see what happens
• 852[14:38:11] <popk> yarn install
• 853[14:38:11] <popk> yarn install v1.22.5
• 854[14:38:11] <popk> [1/4] Resolving packages...
• 855[14:38:11] <popk> [2/4] Fetching packages...
• 856[14:38:11] <popk> info There appears to be trouble with your network connection. Retrying...
• 857[14:38:11] <popk> info There appears to be trouble with your network connection. Retrying...
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• 860[14:38:26] <jelly> !paste
• 861[14:38:26] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
• 862[14:39:11] <popk> jelly
• 863[14:39:11] <popk> V
• 864[14:39:13] <popk> replaced-url
• 865[14:39:19] <popk> replaced-url
• 866[14:40:09] <ksk> Can you connect to that https address from the machine calling yarn?
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• 869[14:42:13] <popk> ksk how to check it
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• 871[14:43:44] <jelly> telnet hostname 443
• 872[14:44:06] <jelly> or curl replaced-url
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• 874[14:44:37] <NetTerminalGene> ,v linux
• 875[14:44:38] <judd> No package named 'linux' was found in amd64.
• 876[14:44:41] <DustyDingo> hi
• 877[14:45:25] <jelly> NetTerminalGene, that's a source package name. Binaries are called like linux-image-5.10-3-amd64, linux-headers-5.10-3-amd64 etc
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• 881[14:46:00] <jelly> NetTerminalGene, replaced-url
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• 883[14:46:05] <NetTerminalGene> jelly: i am trying to find out which kernel version be used by bullseye
• 884[14:46:13] <DustyDingo> i got some strange issues keyboard/terminal issues after dist-upgrading from buster to bullseye. basically modifier keys don't work in graphical terminal,... they work in the text console though. and i see correct key events with xev.
• 885[14:46:27] <DustyDingo> any idea what i could check to figure out more?
• 886[14:46:45] <jelly> NetTerminalGene, 5.10 it seems
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• 888[14:46:47] <jelly> ,kernels
• 889[14:46:49] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.13-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-3-686-pae (5.10.13-1); buster-backports: 5.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.9.15-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-14-686-pae (4.19.171-2); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.13-686 (4.19.160-2~deb9u1); jessie-
• 890[14:46:50] <judd> backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
• 891[14:47:08] <jelly> that one is slated for longterm
• 892[14:48:13] <DustyDingo> also i get strange anomalies when doing key input,... the cursor jumps around and sometimes only a character shows up after a subsequent character is entered.
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• 923[15:38:50] <noisemaker> How to update the OS from 10.7 to 10.8 ?
• 924[15:41:31] *** Quits: shtrb (~shtrb@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 925[15:43:37] <BerntH> 'apt update' followed by 'apt full-upgrade' did it for me
• 926[15:44:48] <SoundShaman> noisemaker, ^^^
• 927[15:45:35] <noisemaker> How can I check which version of 10.X the system has?
• 928[15:45:55] <BerntH> noisemaker: cat /etc/debian-version
• 929[15:46:36] <noisemaker> ty
• 930[15:48:08] <BerntH> Does anyone know how long it will be before bullseye is the next stable? All I've heard is 'soon'. Is that expected to be in the next 6 months? :)
• 931[15:48:51] <SoundShaman> actually i heard something about that the other day BerntH
• 932[15:48:58] <SoundShaman> but i don't remember exactly
• 933[15:49:09] <digdilem> BerntH, if "soon" isn't enough of an answer to be helpful, then we can offer "when it's ready" instead?
• 934[15:50:22] <SoundShaman> i don't see anything on the official release page about an exact time yet
• 935[15:50:47] <SoundShaman> still in testing as far as i can tell
• 936[15:51:47] <BerntH> :) thanks. I just build a new system and needed to move to testing to get my video working correctly - but ultimately want it to end up on stable.
• 937[15:53:57] <another> BerntH: given that the hard freeze is in March, i'd expect it somewhere in Q2
• 938[15:54:33] <BerntH> another: thanks!
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• 947[16:05:24] <petn-randall> BerntH: The official release date is "when it's ready". However, going by the freeze of testing, and extrapolating from previous releases, it's likely going to happen some time this summer.
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• 954[16:07:16] <sig_9> did they take steam out of the buster non-free repos?
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• 956[16:11:46] <jelly> ,v steam
• 957[16:11:47] <judd> No package named 'steam' was found in amd64.
• 958[16:11:53] <jelly> ,v steam --arch i386
• 959[16:11:54] <judd> Package: steam on i386 -- jessie/non-free: 1.0.0.49-1; stretch/non-free: 1.0.0.54-2; buster/non-free: 1.0.0.68-1~deb10u1; bullseye/non-free: 1.0.0.68-1; sid/non-free: 1.0.0.68-1
• 960[16:12:06] <jelly> sig_9, apparently it's 32bit only
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• 968[16:15:20] <sig_9> jelly: yeah just realized had to: dpkg --add-architecture i386
• 969[16:15:24] <sig_9> thanks
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• 983[16:25:06] <tzf> hi ! are some of you running android on virtual machins on Debian ? if yes what is the OS you recommand ? (is that question okay here???)
• 984[16:25:51] <tomman> Did the freeze already started? I've been quite out of the loop for long time
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• 986[16:26:45] <SoundShaman> not until march i think tomman
• 987[16:26:59] <tomman> Oh, kinda late then.
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• 989[16:27:19] <tomman> but then, we're not in normal times anyway after COVID-19
• 990[16:27:42] <SoundShaman> yep
• 991[16:27:52] <tomman> Is Testing currently not that broken? I could update one of my least used machines for.. well, testing
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• 993[16:28:11] <SoundShaman> not sure
• 994[16:28:16] <SoundShaman> you mean bullseye testing?
• 995[16:28:19] <tomman> yup
• 996[16:28:21] <SoundShaman> or buster
• 997[16:28:24] <SoundShaman> oh ok
• 998[16:28:27] <SoundShaman> not sure
• 999[16:28:40] <tomman> I used to run Testing on my daily drivers until Stretch
• 1000[16:28:45] <SoundShaman> it has some bugs from what i have read
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• 1002[16:29:08] <tomman> for the Buster cycle many things happened (including some IRL stuff) and I had to wait until release
• 1003[16:29:12] <SoundShaman> you could try it
• 1004[16:29:18] <SoundShaman> i see
• 1005[16:29:28] <SoundShaman> could also be the case with bullseye idk
• 1006[16:29:50] <tomman> To be fair, my worst experience with Testing was with the KDE5 transition during Stretch, IIRC
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• 1009[16:30:23] <tomman> aside of that, these were smooth sailing experiences for me, but then, I can actually get my junk together when stuff breaks
• 1010[16:30:30] <SoundShaman> yeah
• 1011[16:31:15] <tomman> right now I simply go with stable+backports
• 1012[16:32:06] <tomman> although of course there are bits that aren't readily available on backports, but rebuilding a couple .debs every now and then doesn't hurt
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• 1015[16:35:09] <SoundShaman> yeah true
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• 1036[17:07:10] <noisemaker> I disabled root login during installation and the unique user are not part of sudo group. How can I get root perms?
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• 1039[17:10:13] <sney> if you somehow managed to disable the root login *and* not get your first user added to the sudo group, you will need to re-enable the root login and set a password for it. the installer is supposed to make you choose one or the other, but maybe there's a loophole somehow. anyway:
• 1040[17:10:15] <sney> !ifrp
• 1041[17:10:15] <dpkg> For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
• 1042[17:12:02] <noisemaker> sney: I see. But during the installation is there a way to add an user to sudo group ?
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• 1044[17:12:54] <sney> noisemaker: during the installation, as the installer tells you, if you do not set a root password then the user account you create will be automatically added to the sudo group.
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• 1047[17:14:35] <noisemaker> sney: ty. didn't notice it.
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• 1059[17:30:12] <noisemaker> Is there any way to hide the boot messages (on boot) ?
• 1060[17:32:01] <Jck_true> Due to a bug in the BIOS (or a feature) My home server loose the boot drive configuration and after every power outage I need to reconfigure the BIOS to boot from my SSD again. But it does not have an issue booting from the internal usb port or the micro sd slot. So I'm looking for some sort of minimal "trampoline" that will just look for another
• 1061[17:32:02] <Jck_true> drive to boot automatically...
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• 1063[17:33:04] <jelly> Jck_true, just install grub onto that usb
• 1064[17:33:15] <jelly> nothing else
• 1065[17:33:34] <jelly> keep your OS where it is
• 1066[17:34:02] <jelly> /boot/grub/device.map may need adjusting
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• 1068[17:35:02] <jhutchins> Jck_true: Is the motherboard battery bad?
• 1069[17:35:50] <Jck_true> jhutchins: It remembers everything else. It's just some settings down in the HP/iLO/Raid stuff that appears to get lost
• 1070[17:36:02] <jelly> is it a microserver
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• 1073[17:36:41] <Jck_true> jelly: I'll give it that a try. Is it doable over wsl? Or would I need boot into linux?
• 1074[17:36:47] <Jck_true> microserver gen8 yes
• 1075[17:37:00] <jelly> maybe it has crappy flash or flash bug like real proliants gen8 - gen9 do
• 1076[17:37:14] <jelly> see if you can upgrade the ilo fw and bios fw to latest
• 1077[17:37:22] <Jck_true> I have done that. Latest version
• 1078[17:37:27] <jelly> but it's possible the flash is already worn out
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• 1080[17:37:40] <vanfanel64> Anyone know if it would be safe to build replaced-url
• 1081[17:38:02] <jelly> Jck_true, it's likely you need to boot linux
• 1082[17:38:33] <Jck_true> Normally it does not bother me too much, takes like 20 min to fix once every 3-4 months. But todays outage pushed me over the edge :)
• 1083[17:39:23] <jelly> sure but if you can put a small stick into the internal usb slot and forget it
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• 1085[17:39:46] <jelly> (I assume it has internal usb and/or sd card)
• 1086[17:41:24] <Jck_true> It has both. I used to run the OS off a microsd (So the HDD software raid could spin down) But the performance is much better with a proper SSD
• 1087[17:42:52] <towo`> noisemaker, yes, with plymouth
• 1088[17:43:02] <jelly> right, so put just the boot loader on the SD or usb again
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• 1093[17:45:08] <noisemaker> towo`: what do you mean ?
• 1094[17:45:19] <towo`> [17:30:12] <noisemaker> Is there any way to hide the boot messages (on boot) ?
• 1095[17:45:23] <towo`> [17:42:52] <towo`> noisemaker, yes, with plymouth
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• 1098[17:45:52] <setuid> jelly: You still around?
• 1099[17:45:53] <noisemaker> towo`: sure, but I just need to install it ?
• 1100[17:45:59] <jelly> setuid, no
• 1101[17:46:11] <setuid> jelly: Something very weird with this broken system, restoring the old package file didn't stop autoremove from wanting to remove 99% of the installed packages.
• 1102[17:46:16] <towo`> noisemaker, install it, configure it
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• 1106[17:48:07] <diogenes_> noisemaker, you might only need to add: quiet splash to boot parameters.
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• 1108[17:49:42] <jhutchins> There's a reason those boot messages are there.
• 1109[17:51:03] <jelly> setuid, it's possible some of the meta-packages like task-* got removed and now many other packages do not have a reason to be installed
• 1110[17:51:22] <srged> I'm trying to connect a printer that have been stored for a long while. I have installed cups nd it works but it prints blank pages. How could I tell if its an ink problem or a driver issue ?
• 1111[17:51:39] <jelly> setuid, this can be remedied by picking some of the packages you find useful, and apt-mark manual ...
• 1112[17:52:08] <jelly> srged, run a head cleaning procedure?
• 1113[17:52:30] <jelly> srged, or a printer-based test page
• 1114[17:52:35] <noisemaker> diogenes_: seems I need to check if the video card support KMS
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• 1116[17:53:13] <jhutchins> srged: We presume it't an inkjet?
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• 1118[17:53:37] <srged> jhutchins: Canon PIXMA MG2455
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• 1120[17:54:31] <jhutchins> srged: That means nothing to me. If it's an inkjet, it's likely that ink has dried in the print head and the printer is fubar.
• 1121[17:55:02] <jmcnaught> If the printhead is on the replaceable ink cartridges then just replace those.
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• 1124[17:56:32] <jhutchins> I've had three printers fail because I didn't use them often enough. If you use liquid ink, it's a good idea to schedule a weekly or at least monthly test pring.
• 1125[17:56:35] <jhutchins> t
• 1126[17:58:02] <EdePopede> or do it the Aldi way: buy a new lexmark every time they have an offer, and when the cardridge is empty, throw it away. though i think they're an cannon now.
• 1127[17:58:06] <jelly> tpring!
• 1128[17:58:46] <jelly> EdePopede, I just buy the cheapest replacement ink possible
• 1129[17:58:50] <jhutchins> I think I hear a Martian muppet ...
• 1130[17:59:21] <jhutchins> With lasers down under $100, I can just hit the local Kinkos if I need color.
• 1131[17:59:26] <EdePopede> jelly: remember when HP tried to sue one of these companies for copying their T layout for RGB+black?
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• 1133[18:01:27] <EdePopede> are printers in general at least less problematic than wifi cards? i remember i could choose from 3 or so drivers for my DJ500c back then.
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• 1136[18:04:16] <setuid> jelly: No task-* packages installed at all on the system, I just copied the 'broken' (with altered Priorities) status file to a clone of the system (same packages, versions, but a 'stable' status file), and it's not replicating the same autoremove scope/breakage.
• 1137[18:04:34] <setuid> Is there some other place where package statuses go?
• 1138[18:05:23] <srged> jelly: cleaning procedure? using what tool ?
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• 1142[18:06:26] <jelly> srged, read the model's manual.
• 1143[18:07:09] <jelly> setuid, auto / manual apt states are stored elswhere
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• 1145[18:08:46] <srged> jelly: there is a tool for windows called , canon printer assistant tool . but what can i do on a debian system?
• 1146[18:08:51] <noisemaker> diogenes_: done. ty
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• 1148[18:09:33] <diogenes_> noisemaker, yw
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• 1150[18:12:05] <jelly> srged, sorry, if I had anything better than RTFM I'd have mentioned it. Maybe see if CUPS offer a cleaning action at replaced-url
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• 1156[18:18:58] <srged> jelly: i found the options in cups menu. funny thing is that when i print with ctrl P, it spits out a blank page. but when i try a test prinbt from cups menu, nothing happend.
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• 1164[18:27:39] <jhutchins> srged: That has the positive aspect that it could be a software problem, which could be fixable.
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• 1171[18:35:19] <jelly> and here I'd've said it was definitely hardware if cleaning did nothing
• 1172[18:35:55] <jelly> srged, remove all the pending print jobs, power cycle the printer, try to do cleaning again
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• 1175[18:36:43] <Jck_true> jelly: Partial Success. It now boots directly into a "grub>" shell.
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• 1181[18:40:24] <Jck_true> Yeah ls in grub only shows my usb drive. So that approach didn't work :(
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• 1183[18:40:43] <jelly> that's interesting
• 1184[18:40:59] <jelly> well you can still put just /boot on that usb as well
• 1185[18:41:23] <Jck_true> I better go yank out the raid just to be sure I don't mess with it...
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• 1187[18:42:29] <jelly> it's unfortunate that bios hides all the other drives
• 1188[18:43:49] <jelly> but still, /boot isn't updated that much, only on kernel upgrades, so the usb device should survive for a while even if it's a cheap 100-writes stick
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• 1191[18:44:56] <ChetManly> can I skip from jesse to stretch?
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• 1195[18:45:41] <ChetManly> or jesse > buster > stretch
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• 1197[18:48:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1209
• 1198[18:48:12] <jelly> ChetManly, jessie is debian 8, stretch 9, buster 10, NO SKIPPING
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• 1200[18:48:58] <jelly> skipping is not supported; there are temporary fixes in release yours+1 to make the upgrade work
• 1201[18:49:19] <jelly> those temporary fixes get removed before release yours+2
• 1202[18:49:36] <jelly> so skipping introduces breakage
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• 1206[18:51:08] <ChetManly> oh ok, yeah I was reading you can as long as you package audit but I wanted to ask because who wants to create the overhead for something to be broken anyway
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• 1209[18:57:18] <jelly> you may want to inform the author of your readings they're not correct
• 1210[18:57:23] <Jck_true> jelly: Holy! It worked! I went in and disabled the hardware raid again and now it appears to boot!
• 1211[18:58:10] <HelloShitty> Hello. How o I exclude multiple files with rsync? I'm trying `rsyn -a -r --progress=info2 --exclude=/path/to/file1.log --exclude=/path/to/file2.log-10-02-2021 /path/to/source /path/to/destiny
• 1212[18:58:16] *** Joins: D4rk4ngel2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip)
• 1213[18:58:44] <HelloShitty> but files I'm trying to exclude are **still** being copied
• 1214[18:59:01] <HelloShitty> but files I'm trying to exclude are **still** being copied
• 1215[18:59:18] <jelly> HelloShitty, --exclude is relative to source
• 1216[18:59:30] <jelly> HelloShitty, show the actual command line
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• 1219[19:00:33] <HelloShitty> the complete command I'm using is:
• 1220[19:00:34] <HelloShitty> $ rsync -a -r --progress=info2 --exclude=WdElements/blockchain-backup/blocks --exclude=WdElements/blockchain-backup/debug.log,WdElements/blockchain-backup/debug.log-10-02-2021 WdElements/blockchain-backup/ .bitcoin/
• 1221[19:00:38] <HelloShitty> sending incremental file list
• 1222[19:00:40] <HelloShitty> ./
• 1223[19:00:43] <HelloShitty> debug.log-10-02-2021
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• 1226[19:01:00] <HelloShitty> sorry
• 1227[19:01:17] <HelloShitty> the command I tried first was with the 2 --excludes
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• 1229[19:01:30] <jelly> HelloShitty, --exclude=blocks --exclude=debug.log ...
• 1230[19:01:31] <HelloShitty> then I tried to remove the 2nd exclude and split the files with a coma
• 1231[19:01:41] <HelloShitty> hum, ok
• 1232[19:01:46] <HelloShitty> thank you
• 1233[19:02:06] <jelly> rsync has -n
• 1234[19:02:15] <jelly> use it.
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• 1238[19:03:20] <HelloShitty> ok, let me check that flag
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• 1241[19:03:56] <jelly> it's a simulation, dry run. Also --dry-run
• 1242[19:04:24] <jelly> try things out with -n, when it works jsut the way you want, remove -n
• 1243[19:04:33] <HelloShitty> ahh ok. I just seen in the man page
• 1244[19:04:40] <HelloShitty> thanks for the suggestion
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• 1249[19:07:50] <Jck_true> jelly: I got a little further now. It now goes straight into the grub shell. But on ls it shows (hd3,msdos5) and (hd3,msdos1)
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• 1253[19:10:43] <srged> jelly: as u suggested i performed a test page prin from the cups interface. now it worked. but the page was still blank. i also tried a Clean Print Heads operation but nothing happends, altough it says job completed
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• 1289[19:48:12] <legonick> Hello! What are reasonable rsync "setup/teardown" times on a 512 kilobit/second line?
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• 1291[19:48:27] <setuid> ``/part
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• 1295[19:48:59] <legonick> I'm seeing 16-21 seconds and that seems dog slow.
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• 1300[19:52:18] <ratrace> I don't think there's a singular answer to that. very much depends on the number of files
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• 1302[19:52:49] <legonick> ratrace, no files. Attempting to transfer a file which doesn't even exist seems to take ~16 seconds.
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• 1304[19:53:12] <legonick> I'm using SSH to connect.
• 1305[19:53:15] <ratrace> which options are you using? what are filesystems on both ends?
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• 1307[19:53:36] <ratrace> and how much of those 16 seconds is establishing ssh conn?
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• 1309[19:54:17] <ratrace> Unless you have "UseDNS no" sshd config, it's possible there's DNS lookup issues that take so long
• 1310[19:54:50] <legonick> date; rsync --relative --partial --partial-dir=.rsync-partial --remove-source-files --timeout=30 --chmod=ugo=rwX --checksum -v --itemize-changes --info=progress2 -e 'SSH_STUFF_HERE' /tmp/this_doesnt_exist RECEIVER_HERE/; date
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• 1313[19:56:26] <legonick> ratrace, ext4 to ext4.
• 1314[19:56:36] <legonick> ratrace, dude, good thought! Hmmmm
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• 1316[19:58:05] <legonick> ratrace, hmmm is there option to turn that off in my -e argument?
• 1317[19:59:04] <jelly> no, that's a sshd thing
• 1318[19:59:45] <legonick> jelly, ratrace, never mind, "UseDNS no" is in my /etc/ssh/sshd_config
• 1319[20:00:16] <jelly> legonick, how much does "time 'SSH_STUFF_HERE id -a'" take on its own
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• 1321[20:03:26] <legonick> jelly, Fri Feb 12 18:50:18 UTC 2021
• 1322[20:03:26] <legonick> Fri Feb 12 18:50:26 UTC 2021
• 1323[20:03:52] <legonick> Seems like ~7-8
• 1324[20:04:16] <legonick> Fri Feb 12 18:50:30 UTC 2021
• 1325[20:04:16] <legonick> Fri Feb 12 18:50:37 UTC 2021...Fri Feb 12 18:50:42 UTC 2021
• 1326[20:04:16] <legonick> Fri Feb 12 18:50:49 UTC 2021
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• 1328[20:05:41] <ratrace> eh dates.... time ssh remoteside 'exit'
• 1329[20:06:06] <ChetManly> jelly, thanks
• 1330[20:06:36] <legonick> ratrace, yeah doing: date; ssh_stuff_here 'exit'; date
• 1331[20:07:12] <ratrace> legonick: why tho, use time(2) time ssh <options here> <hostname> 'exit'
• 1332[20:07:47] <ratrace> and don't forget you can use ~/.ssh/config so you don't have to type the options for that host every time
• 1333[20:07:48] <legonick> ratrace, ahh ok.
• 1334[20:08:07] <legonick> real 0m7.186s
• 1335[20:08:07] <legonick> user 0m0.024s
• 1336[20:08:07] <legonick> sys 0m0.012s
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• 1339[20:08:41] <legonick> real 0m6.876s ... real 0m7.694s
• 1340[20:08:46] <ratrace> now use time for full rsync command: time rsync <options> /tmp/unexisting remote:/tmp/
• 1341[20:09:12] <ratrace> don't paste here, just the "real" time
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• 1343[20:10:11] <legonick> real 0m13.979s ...... real 0m10.005s .... real 0m9.810s
• 1344[20:10:50] <ratrace> is that three runs for the same command?
• 1345[20:11:06] <legonick> ratrace, yes. 3 reals from 3 runs, same command.
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• 1350[20:12:21] <ratrace> that's a rather large variance there. so definitely not 16 seconds for rsync. you can use strace instead of time for rsync, strace can do timestamps, so you can see where exactly it spends most time. but I'm gonna hazard a guess and say your network is crappy and shows huge variance
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• 1352[20:12:41] <legonick> ratrace, on a ground system I'm getting ~1 second for the SSH side.
• 1353[20:13:23] <ratrace> note that rsync essentially launches rsync on the remote side too so it's a bit way more involved than ssh+exit
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• 1355[20:14:11] <legonick> ratrace, on a turd connect speed-wise, how fast should SSH+exit be?
• 1356[20:14:17] <ratrace> at any rate, since I'm using rsync on a daily basis for large datasets between quite a number of servers, I can attest that it's very fast in the initial setup time, but "fast" there depends on the number of files involved. I should say "optimized" rather
• 1357[20:14:44] <ratrace> legonick: no single answer exists for that
• 1358[20:15:18] <ratrace> here, I just tried one of my servers, it took 682 msec
• 1359[20:15:50] <ratrace> that's over 10MBps residential ISP, and the server is ~40ms away
• 1360[20:17:15] <legonick> ratrace, dang...that's fast.
• 1361[20:17:31] <ratrace> your rsync command took 750msec
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• 1363[20:18:02] <ratrace> replaced-url
• 1364[20:18:22] <ratrace> and yes, note that -v and --info=progress2 are mutually contradicting
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• 1366[20:19:40] <legonick> ratrace, dang that's fast. So I'm working on a test where I artificially limit the speeds to 512 kilobits/second and see how SSH/rsync react...but that's slow to be set up.
• 1367[20:19:57] <ratrace> how are you limiting the speeds artificially?
• 1368[20:20:14] <legonick> ratrace, ahh OK. I tossed --info in there to monitor since I took this out of context from a script.
• 1369[20:20:22] <legonick> ratrace, the plan is a QOS rule on a firewall.
• 1370[20:21:22] <legonick> ratrace, hmmm maybe I should mess with tc to try limiting on Linux.
• 1371[20:21:26] <ratrace> "plan is", or are currently doing that.
• 1372[20:21:51] <ratrace> do you have reference numbers for transfer speeds, for your network, without this artificial traffic shaping?
• 1373[20:22:00] <legonick> ratrace, plan is. The slowness one is going across a Ku satellite link.
• 1374[20:22:18] <ratrace> ah so _these_ are reference numbers without traffic shaping?
• 1375[20:22:22] <legonick> ratrace, plan is to "simulate satellite speeds" on my ground guy and see how it behaves.
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• 1377[20:23:22] <legonick> ratrace, it's complicated, LOL. The satellite modem does some shaping and the network may do more. Hence my desire to test on the ground where I'm in control of that more. If the speeds are suddenly <2 seconds, the problem is in the network somewhere maybe.
• 1378[20:23:43] <ratrace> are you aware that sattelite connections use different networking options to compensate? jumbo frames? high latency but bandwidth is optimal
• 1379[20:24:11] <chocolate> I typed wrong with a space after asterisk and executed this command in a directory with a buch of files: rm * .exe    Id like to know if it started deleting other files
• 1380[20:24:15] <ratrace> I mean, you'd have high bandwidth delay product there, but bandwidth (aka. "speeds") shouldn't be abysmal
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• 1382[20:24:48] <legonick> ratrace, yeah, high latency. I wonder how that could affect SSH?
• 1383[20:25:01] <ratrace> legonick: however, note in my paste, that transfer of unexisting files really consumed only 18 bytes + establishing ssh conn, so that's 3 way handshake + ssh dialogue + .... probably quite a number of tiny packets which is ATROCIOUS over satcon.....
• 1384[20:25:35] <ratrace> but if you tried a stream where packets are full up to their brims.... you'd notice quite larger speeds.
• 1385[20:26:20] <ratrace> chocolate: yes
• 1386[20:26:51] <ratrace> jelly: turn that "don't use asterisks" into a factoid we can hurl at users :)
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• 1388[20:27:29] <chocolate> thanks ratrace
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• 1390[20:27:49] <legonick> ratrace, yeah...any way to implement fake latency? LOL.
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• 1393[20:28:19] <ratrace> I want to say there's kernel modules to simulate that .... but now I'm not sure whether that was only for device-mapper or there's some in networking subsection too
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• 1395[20:29:03] <ratrace> otherwise tc is the way to go. "netem" qdisc
• 1396[20:29:27] <legonick> ratrace, I might have to optimize more...it gets a bit dicey because I don't want to batch up lots of files with rsync. Want to send 1 at a time because what needs to be sent can change. So really beating on the SATCOM link, LOL.
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• 1401[20:34:40] <legonick> ratrace, oooo netem...maybe I can do some fake latency with this!
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• 1407[20:38:01] <ratrace> stepping out for dinner, good luck!
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• 1411[20:45:40] <legonick> ratrace, cool, enjoy! Dinner...2:45 PM here...where are you located?
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• 1413[20:47:28] <jhutchins> legonick: An easy guess puts him in BST where it's 19:45.
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• 1421[20:53:25] <jelly> but is it dinner dinner, or dinner dinner
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• 1423[20:55:55] <jelly> > Dinner usually refers to what is in many Western cultures the largest and most formal meal of the day, which some Westerners eat in the evening.
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• 1426[20:59:06] <legonick> Ugh tc & netem giving me lots of RTNETLINK answers: Operation not supported.
• 1427[20:59:48] <dahlya> Hi! I'm using `udisksctl mount -b /dev/sdx` and have added `/dev/sdx /media/mountpoint vfat users,noauto 0 0` to /etc/fstab in order to mount a USB drive whitout sudo. However the mountpoint is still owned by root and I therefore still need sudo to write on disk (mkdir for example). However an application like nautilus seems to have no issue doing this whithout permissions. Any guidances on how I could change
• 1428[20:59:49] <dahlya> directory ownership whitout sudo or circumvent this?
• 1429[21:00:03] *** Parts: Quintil (5d988f74@replaced-ip) ()
• 1430[21:00:42] <jelly> dahlya, which filesystem type
• 1431[21:00:48] <jelly> oh, vfat
• 1432[21:01:11] <jelly> add some uid=...,gid=... options for a quick single user fix
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• 1434[21:03:28] <srged> I am trying to get ink levels using escputil and it says `Obtaining ink levels requires using a raw device.`
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• 1436[21:03:39] <srged> what does it mean ?
• 1437[21:04:56] <AppXprt> with apt, wouldn't it be better to collect kernel changes and apply them all at the same time, so generating kernel once instead of throughout the apt run each time it has an update... It slows upgrades down to do multiple updates to kernel instead of doing them all at once at the end of an update..........
• 1438[21:05:30] <sney> srged: check the readme or manual to be sure, but on linux usually that means it wants you to specify a /dev node on the command line. e.g. escputil /dev/usb/0 or something
• 1439[21:05:47] <imMute> AppXprt: what?? the kernel is updated in one go like all packages are...
• 1440[21:06:13] <sney> probably talking about dkms builds or multiple initrd triggers
• 1441[21:06:19] *** Joins: CaCO3 (~CaCO3@replaced-ip)
• 1442[21:06:34] <imMute> sney: that was going to be my guess.
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• 1444[21:06:53] *** Joins: rgr (~rgr@replaced-ip)
• 1445[21:07:04] <AppXprt> ok so why can't these triggers be applied all at the same time instead of individually per software install
• 1446[21:07:04] <dahlya> @jelly thank you so much!
• 1447[21:07:18] <AppXprt> collect changes and apply all at once instead of through the apt run
• 1448[21:07:37] <jelly> AppXprt, because noone implemented that trigger deduplication optimization
• 1449[21:08:01] <AppXprt> the way it is not is rather insane and time consuming...
• 1450[21:08:05] <AppXprt> now*
• 1451[21:08:54] <jelly> AppXprt, go implement it, submit a merge request, apt devs will be so happy
• 1452[21:09:11] <jelly> and you might learn some C++ in the process
• 1453[21:09:11] <AppXprt> they probably won't even pull in the commit..............
• 1454[21:09:19] <AppXprt> I already know C++
• 1455[21:10:06] <jelly> have you filed bugs against apt before with patches attached?
• 1456[21:10:27] <AppXprt> nope, seems they don't care since this has been like this for how many years? 10?
• 1457[21:10:49] <AppXprt> if they don't care, I guess no one else should make an effort to improve it.
• 1458[21:10:55] <jelly> maybe noone reported it.
• 1459[21:11:05] <AppXprt> I have reported it, but not with patches
• 1460[21:11:10] <AppXprt> it's not an issue I guess
• 1461[21:11:13] <jelly> bug number?
• 1462[21:11:32] <AppXprt> it's not a bug, technically a feature request?
• 1463[21:11:40] <imMute> AppXprt: well it would help to learn what the problem actually is. it's not really the kernel that's getting multiple updates.
• 1464[21:11:44] <sney> !wishlist
• 1465[21:11:44] <dpkg> hmm... wishlist is a severity on a bugreport. Use this for suggestions and requests for new features.
• 1466[21:12:31] *** Joins: pk (~pk@replaced-ip)
• 1467[21:12:57] <AppXprt> LoL it's been like this for 10+ years and I think I see why now.
• 1468[21:12:59] <jelly> AppXprt, those are also filed as bugs, with Priority: wishlist or minor
• 1469[21:13:26] <imMute> AppXprt: because most people don't consider it a severe bug?
• 1470[21:13:32] <jelly> AppXprt, I'm trying to see where you reported it.
• 1471[21:13:33] <AppXprt> no you know what this is? common sense..
• 1472[21:13:35] *** Joins: ax56234 (~NickServ@replaced-ip)
• 1473[21:13:54] <AppXprt> it's not a bug or wishlist issue, it's incompetence when it comes to common sense.
• 1474[21:13:56] <jelly> AppXprt, you still need to draw developer's attention to it, and they're not here
• 1475[21:13:59] <sney> letting dpkg defer redundant actions for later is not a terribly bad idea, which is more than I can say for your attitude
• 1476[21:14:23] <jelly> AppXprt, this channel is volunteers, many of which are not debian devs
• 1477[21:14:29] <AppXprt> My attitude, I was just making a suggestion, look what it was met with..
• 1478[21:14:54] <AppXprt> my attitude? how can you expect to get ANYTHING done with a community like this?
• 1479[21:15:03] <sney> qed
• 1480[21:15:15] <imMute> AppXprt: you're the one being hostile. we're just saying "it hasn't been done because no one motivated enough has picked it up"
• 1481[21:15:16] <jelly> AppXprt, the process is what it is right now, I can't change it
• 1482[21:16:01] <AppXprt> I just dropped in to make a common sense suggestion that has been ignored and I was met with scrutiny over syntax
• 1483[21:16:15] <jelly> AppXprt, if a bug annoys you, the best way to address that _right now_ is to file a proper bug report. A conversation in this channel likely won't reach the right people.
• 1484[21:16:26] <AppXprt> at this rate, why should ANYONE suggest ANYTHING to a hostile community?
• 1485[21:17:46] <AppXprt> you can't even allow people to make a suggestion without jumping on them about something wrong with the way I posed the suggestion.
• 1486[21:17:59] <AppXprt> But I'm hostile....
• 1487[21:18:14] <AppXprt> no wonder developers are jumping ship from linux
• 1488[21:18:15] <jelly> AppXprt, Debian processes aren't the best, but this is not the venue which will produce results.
• 1489[21:18:30] <imMute> AppXprt: if you can't even fully understand the problem, how do you even know it's a "common sense" thing?
• 1490[21:18:32] <jelly> AppXprt, are you willing to run "reportbug"?
• 1491[21:18:35] <srged> sney: i cant seem to locate the moutpoint of my printer... replaced-url
• 1492[21:18:42] <AppXprt> great community, great people, good luck cause you're going to need it with the way you all treat people
• 1493[21:19:36] <imMute> AppXprt: thanks for the feedback. the door is right here: /part
• 1494[21:19:47] *** Joins: greycat (~greg@replaced-ip)
• 1495[21:20:19] <jelly> imMute, no, no, let's let them rant some more, see if someone magically files the bug report instead of them
• 1496[21:20:27] * jelly sighs
• 1497[21:20:58] <imMute> jelly: a bug report wouldn't be enough for this guy. he'd want the fix in Debian oldstable later today to be acceptable.
• 1498[21:21:20] *** Joins: Flukp (~Flukp@replaced-ip)
• 1499[21:21:33] <jelly> I don't know that.
• 1500[21:21:38] *** Quits: Flukp (~Flukp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1501[21:21:50] <imMute> srged: I dont' think a printer would have a mountpoint. it's a printer, not a disk device after all.
• 1502[21:22:21] <jelly> sometimes letting a user vent some steam can make them calm down, and be more constructive
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• 1505[21:23:06] *** Joins: Flukp (~Flukp@replaced-ip)
• 1506[21:23:12] <imMute> jelly: yeah, sometimes. this guy is flying off the handle at something as simple as dpkg triggers though. it's not like anything is actually broke, it's just "slow".
• 1507[21:23:25] *** Quits: Flukp (~Flukp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1508[21:23:42] <AppXprt> I didn't even fly off the handle, you guys are insufferable, it was a simple suggestion.
• 1509[21:23:42] <srged> imMute: escputil wants me to use a `raw device`. what would u suggest ?
• 1510[21:24:13] <imMute> AppXprt: it's not a simple implementation though. otherwise it would have been done already.
• 1511[21:24:18] *** Joins: Flukp (~Flukp@replaced-ip)
• 1512[21:24:19] <jelly> AppXprt, okay, we're bad. Ignore that and focus on the tech issue, or I'll quiet you.
• 1513[21:24:34] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1514[21:24:55] <jelly> AppXprt, now, are you able to run "reportbug" on your debian system, do you want this fixed or not?
• 1515[21:24:58] <imMute> srged: I've never used escputil, but it sounds like it wants one of the device nodes in /dev/. I dunno how printer devices are usually named though.
• 1516[21:24:59] <AppXprt> it actually is simple, you use arrays to store changes and then apply them from that array in order
• 1517[21:25:33] <jelly> AppXprt, bear in mind there's probably no apt dev in here right now.
• 1518[21:25:38] <AppXprt> I've never filed a bug, but I'm not sure this should qualify as a bug?
• 1519[21:25:47] <greycat> sounds like a "wishlist" request
• 1520[21:26:19] <jelly> AppXprt, feature requests and optimizations are also filed as bug reports.
• 1521[21:26:21] <sney> srged: see if you can identify the printer in 'lsusb' output, then match that to a /dev/bus/usb/00X/00Y node
• 1522[21:26:22] <AppXprt> which is why I asked if there was an #apt / #aptitude channel (there probably should be)
• 1523[21:26:23] <srged> sudo escputil -i -r /dev/usb/lp0
• 1524[21:26:33] <jelly> there isn't, sadly
• 1525[21:26:36] <greycat> If there is such a channel, it'll be on the other network.
• 1526[21:26:46] <AppXprt> efnet?
• 1527[21:26:50] <greycat> !oftc move
• 1528[21:26:50] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
• 1529[21:26:53] <jelly> OFTC, and #debian-apt is not that
• 1530[21:27:14] <sney> but development/feature requests/etc typically happen in bugreports and email threads, not irc.
• 1531[21:27:27] <AppXprt> wow the community is splintering even more, what a surprise.
• 1532[21:27:31] *** Quits: AppXprt (4addb582@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed)
• 1533[21:27:45] <sney> I don't know what they expected, tbh.
• 1534[21:27:45] <greycat> 15 years ago
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• 1536[21:28:48] *** Joins: Flukp (Flukp@replaced-ip)
• 1537[21:29:19] <srged> sney: I can spot the canon there but how do i get the location ? replaced-url
• 1538[21:30:03] <sney> srged: see the bus number and device number? match those to the ones under /dev/bus/usb
• 1539[21:30:09] *** Joins: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip)
• 1540[21:30:38] <imMute> srged: /dev/bus/usb/003/005
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• 1542[21:32:08] *** Joins: atari2600a (~atari2600@replaced-ip)
• 1543[21:32:11] *** Joins: AppXprt (4addb582@replaced-ip)
• 1544[21:32:20] <AppXprt> I just came back to say one last thing and that is:
• 1545[21:32:22] <atari2600a> hey, I have an sdl2 package held by apt because of a conflict
• 1546[21:32:23] <AppXprt> Worthless...
• 1547[21:32:23] <srged> sney: imMute: here is the output replaced-url
• 1548[21:32:28] <atari2600a> how do I force a specific version?
• 1549[21:32:31] <greycat> 15:29 [oftc] #debian-dpkg 22 dpkg development channel |
• 1550[21:32:54] <atari2600a> come on don't do me like that, you know this is very well within the bounds of the operating system
• 1551[21:33:00] <imMute> srged: idk. I don't know that program at all.
• 1552[21:33:01] <atari2600a> & I am not asking about develepment of apt
• 1553[21:33:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 1554[21:33:09] <AppXprt> atari2600a, they treat people like shit in here
• 1555[21:33:19] <atari2600a> meh, at least they treat people here
• 1556[21:33:26] *** jelly sets mode: +q $a:AppXprt
• 1557[21:33:29] *** Quits: AppXprt (4addb582@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1558[21:33:30] <atari2600a> ever go to #archlinux, #ubuntu, etc?
• 1559[21:33:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 1560[21:33:50] <imMute> atari2600a: greycat was talking to AppXprt, not you.
• 1561[21:34:03] <jelly> I warned them to focus on tech.
• 1562[21:34:06] <jelly> moving on...
• 1563[21:34:08] <atari2600a> then why was I tagged
• 1564[21:34:21] *** Quits: nickname123 (~nickname1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1565[21:34:30] <atari2600a> oh, I see
• 1566[21:34:32] <atari2600a> crap
• 1567[21:34:44] <atari2600a> come on, it was very insinuatey lol
• 1568[21:35:21] <atari2600a> subchannels meant something 15 years ago. Now they're just mailinglists with extra steps
• 1569[21:35:32] *** Joins: lord4163 (~lord4163@replaced-ip)
• 1570[21:35:57] <jelly> and I wouldn't point that kind of person to a dev channel
• 1571[21:36:06] <atari2600a> that's why I get all defensive when everyone tries to direct me to a channel that ain't got no users ain't got no butt
• 1572[21:36:11] *** Joins: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip)
• 1573[21:36:34] <imMute> atari2600a: again, that wasn't directed at you.
• 1574[21:36:39] <jelly> atari2600a, I do point people to other channels IF there's a better chance to get help there
• 1575[21:36:42] *** Joins: nickname123 (~nickname1@replaced-ip)
• 1576[21:37:01] <jelly> even if there's like 7 people
• 1577[21:37:16] <jelly> 7 experts beat 1200 idiots
• 1578[21:37:19] <s_> is there a way to see how much memory is "pinned" in linux, e.g. not allowed to be taken to swap
• 1579[21:37:34] <atari2600a> yeah then I tag all 7 people & get klined for spamming lol
• 1580[21:37:41] <aminvakil> atari2600a: i'm not sure if i understood your problem or not, does this help you? replaced-url
• 1581[21:38:00] <jelly> atari2600a, you don't highlight them, that's rude
• 1582[21:38:01] <aminvakil> you want to install a specific version of a package?
• 1583[21:38:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1217
• 1584[21:38:12] <atari2600a> yes thank you
• 1585[21:38:20] *** Quits: lord4163 (~lord4163@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1586[21:38:23] <atari2600a> you know how the apt man pages are
• 1587[21:38:37] <atari2600a> it's half of why I prefer arch, no offense lol
• 1588[21:39:01] <aminvakil> well i searched "apt specific version" in google
• 1589[21:39:06] <aminvakil> and this was the first result
• 1590[21:39:40] *** Joins: MatrixBottolonie (~matrixbot@replaced-ip)
• 1591[21:39:52] <aminvakil> i suggest you don't use arch then, no offense
• 1592[21:39:59] <atari2600a> see, what happened was, I ran the retropie script on the ubantoo (I LIED ABOUT DEBIAN) & it /usr/local'd one & I couldn't get apt-get to force either one
• 1593[21:41:00] <atari2600a> jelly, again, I use IRC for IRC. If I wanted an answer a day from now, I'd join a mailing list. IRC is really, really sad now it's all ops & chads
• 1594[21:41:56] *** Joins: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip)
• 1595[21:42:05] <atari2600a> if I wanted to use IRC as a BBS, I'd set up a BBS
• 1596[21:42:10] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1597[21:42:15] <jelly> atari2600a, If I wanted to spend time answering apt questions and not Debian questions, I'd do it in ##linux
• 1598[21:42:44] *** Quits: geowiesnot (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1599[21:42:48] <jelly> but I choose to help Debian users, can you respect that choice?
• 1600[21:42:50] *** Joins: Augusto (~t7DS@replaced-ip)
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• 1602[21:43:01] <atari2600a> hey hey HEY you know apt is your guys' *thing*. your entire OS boils down to setup scripts, filesystem structure & apt
• 1603[21:43:41] <jelly> and we're happy to help with an apt problem that can be reproduced on an actual Debian installation
• 1604[21:43:48] *** Joins: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip)
• 1605[21:43:59] <jelly> because derivatives change things
• 1606[21:44:19] <jelly> and they have different repos
• 1607[21:45:01] <jelly> (and some are "different" enough that we'd call them "broken")
• 1608[21:45:15] <atari2600a> yeah, but It wasn't a problem with a specific meta/package, so much as I hit a specific edge-case with a local package
• 1609[21:46:07] *** Joins: Conradish006 (~Conradish@replaced-ip)
• 1610[21:46:14] <atari2600a> I'd get it if I was all 'ubuntu-desktop is conflicting!' but I had a simple issue where the package manager was encountering 2 instances of the same package & didn't know what to do about it
• 1611[21:46:14] <jelly> if you're not running or desiring to run Debian, this is not the right channel. Again, sadly, there's no channel for generic apt issues.
• 1612[21:46:30] <jelly> next best thing on freenode is ##linux
• 1613[21:46:34] <atari2600a> again, you are the apt developers
• 1614[21:46:37] <jelly> no
• 1615[21:46:48] <atari2600a> debian didn't develop apt?
• 1616[21:46:55] <imMute> atari2600a: debian did, but those developers aren't here.
• 1617[21:47:09] <atari2600a> IDK, sounds like you've all inhereted a problem
• 1618[21:47:14] <jelly> atari2600a, there are very little devs in here, and we don't know what $other_distro has done with apt
• 1619[21:47:27] *** Joins: lord4163 (~lord4163@replaced-ip)
• 1620[21:47:30] <atari2600a> ported it downstream?
• 1621[21:47:33] <jelly> microscopic devs.
• 1622[21:47:49] <atari2600a> apt isn't exactly something you touch, you just change a config here or there & add your own repos
• 1623[21:48:02] <s_> is there a way to see how much memory is "pinned" in linux, e.g. not allowed to be taken to swap
• 1624[21:48:13] <jelly> atari2600a, except it's not. Ubuntu added triggers way before Debian.
• 1625[21:48:29] <atari2600a> that was them? damn no wonder things slowed down in 2008
• 1626[21:48:48] <imMute> s_: probably something in /proc/meminfo
• 1627[21:49:05] <atari2600a> when in doubt, --verbose
• 1628[21:49:35] *** Joins: uvolmer (~uvolmer@replaced-ip)
• 1629[21:50:31] <jelly> s_, syscall for that is called mlock() I think, so maybe it's grep ^Mlocked: /proc/meminfo ?
• 1630[21:50:56] <jelly> there might be other locking primitives that don't show there
• 1631[21:51:29] <jelly> s_, mount a ramfs of some relevant size and see if its size appears there
• 1632[21:51:29] <s_> Mlocked: 0 kB
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• 1637[21:53:01] <KNERD> atari2600a: You can for sure get good answers at replaced-url
• 1638[21:53:09] * jelly blinks
• 1639[21:53:19] <KNERD> Where you can format your questions better with much more information
• 1640[21:53:40] <s_> jelly: trying to figure why somethign is OOMkilled
• 1641[21:53:49] <jelly> atari2600a, I can't recommend any of those stack-exchange like sites.
• 1642[21:53:51] <s_> i have 8G swap
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• 1648[21:54:31] <jelly> arch linux wiki, sure. linuxquestions? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
• 1649[21:54:42] <GenTooMan> has anyone safely upgrade wxPython to 4.1.X in Debian buster backports?
• 1650[21:55:00] <GenTooMan> upgraded even ... at least I don't lisp :D
• 1651[21:55:11] *** Quits: rgr (~rgr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1652[21:56:13] <greycat> instead of taking a poll of who has done what, why not ask for help with whatever problem you actually have?
• 1653[21:56:34] <srged> imMute: I managed to get the ink level using a different app. replaced-url
• 1654[21:57:41] <srged> with 60% level for the color ink, is it normal to print bank panges?
• 1655[21:59:05] *** Joins: Doxin (~Doxin@replaced-ip)
• 1656[21:59:58] <KNERD> It's too bad Samsung sold off their printer division to HP. The Universal Print Driver works really great on Linux
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• 1659[22:00:13] <Doxin> so I've got unattended upgrades enabled, and largely it has been fine. Sometimes however it seems to just be holding the package lock forever? even running systemctl stop unattended-upgrades.service will hang. Is this expected behavior for this service or has something gone awry?
• 1660[22:00:53] <pokota> is it normal for a user to still have open files if they're completely logged out?
• 1661[22:00:57] *** Quits: revolutionary (~revolutio@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 1663[22:02:19] <greycat> Users don't have open files. Processes do. Find out what process has them open, and then decide whether it's appropriate for that process to be alive at that point.
• 1664[22:02:19] *** Joins: revolutionary (~revolutio@replaced-ip)
• 1665[22:02:37] <sney> Doxin: that's unusual. without knowing more I'd suspect it's a timeout, maybe an issue reaching your mirror?
• 1666[22:03:15] *** Joins: nickname123 (~nickname1@replaced-ip)
• 1667[22:03:21] <Doxin> sney: surely it's not timing out for 15 minutes on end? whenever I manually run apt-get update/upgrade it all seems to work perfectly fine. (whenever unattended upgrades isn't hogging the lock that is)
• 1668[22:04:41] <EdePopede> pokota: i keep an htop instance in a text terminal (running as root) on my other machine with (relatively) freshly installed buster.
• 1669[22:05:07] <Doxin> sney: I mean at this point I just want to get the situation unwedged, I've got packages to install :P
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• 1680[22:12:51] <sney> Doxin: well, the unattended-upgrades service is unlikely to be what's actually hanging, so go back to your ps output and find the apt or dpkg process and kill that
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• 1684[22:14:16] <Doxin> sney: well I guess I gave it enough time, and it stopped. still seems like a silly long time for it to be running though
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• 1688[22:15:50] <sney> Doxin: then look at the most recent log in /var/log/unattended-upgrades and find out what was actually stopped, or at least the last thing that succeeded
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