Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

0[00:00:08] <jhutchins> Um, needless to say, that was meant for a local channel.
1[00:00:59] <jhutchins> "Arthur" is Arthur is Arthur Benson, who argued Brown vs. Topeka Board of Education. I do tech support for him.
2[00:01:07] <jhutchins> He's still working, but not much.
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65[00:49:44] <jammz> anyone know what you're supposed to do to resolve java dependencies? I got a java application, installed default-jre, and it gives me dependency errors, like: pathvisio.jar!/org.apache.commons.discovery_0.2.0.v201004190315.jar failed to start.
66[00:49:44] <jammz> org.osgi.framework.BundleException: Unresolved constraint in bundle org.apache.commons.discovery [12]: Unable to resolve 12.0: missing requirement [12.0] osgi.ee; (&(osgi.ee=JavaSE)(version=1.4.0))
67[00:50:05] <jammz> this is the software I'm trying to run: replaced-url
68[00:50:15] <jammz> (chemical pathway chart creator thing)
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72[00:52:49] <themill> Their docs say that it only works with java 8 with is not a good start... that's so old it's not even in Debian stable.
73[00:52:56] <jammz> oh, good eye
74[00:53:07] <jammz> (for bold text)
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78[00:54:06] <themill> :)
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80[00:56:03] <themill> From memory, it's possible to install openjdk-8-jdk from stretch on a buster system, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that. A stretch chroot (desktop type schroot) with its dependencies installed in it might be the simplest
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96[01:16:08] <jammz> themill, thanks. I'll look for some other option to generate these things.. first time using such software but I figure there are other options available
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98[01:19:31] <jammz> #debian-next is invite only
99[01:20:13] <jammz> I'm trying to install Miniconda but the installers for it are only at 3.7 and 3.8, while my debian python is 3.9
100[01:20:36] <sney> !invite only
101[01:20:36] <dpkg> Many debian channels are on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you try to join one and you see "Cannot join (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
102[01:20:41] <sney> note right now you are on freenode
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107[01:29:29] <jammz> oh they said that the other day. thanks
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149[02:17:52] <phantomcircuit> trying to install the libssl debug symbols but i cant because the version in debian-debug is slightly behind the version i have somehow
150[02:17:55] <phantomcircuit> libssl1.1-dbgsym : Depends: libssl1.1 (= 1.1.1d-0+deb10u3) but 1.1.1d-0+deb10u4 is to be installed
151[02:17:58] <phantomcircuit> u3 vs u4
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153[02:18:44] <sney> ,v libssl1.1
154[02:18:45] <judd> Package: libssl1.1 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1; buster: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u3; buster-proposed-updates: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u4; buster-security: 1.1.1d-0+deb10u4; bullseye: 1.1.1i-1; sid: 1.1.1i-1
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156[02:19:15] <phantomcircuit> right so the buster version is u3 the buster-security version is u4
157[02:19:22] <phantomcircuit> something tells me i dont want to downgrade :)
158[02:19:29] <sney> indeed
159[02:19:49] <phantomcircuit> any idea how to get the debug symbols for buster-security releases?
160[02:20:06] <sney> the dbgsym packages would still have been generated during auto build, but I'm not sure where it puts them
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163[02:22:13] <sney> the package is there, so it must be attached to something replaced-url
164[02:22:21] <themill> It's available from buster-proposed-updates-debug
165[02:22:27] <sney> aha.
166[02:23:05] <themill> packages normally go into both buster/updates and buster-proposed-updates at the sameish time. (It's a hack, security.d.o needs to learn to publish the dbgsym packages properly)
167[02:23:36] <themill> There seems to be little progress in #894081
168[02:23:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
169[02:24:02] <phantomcircuit> themill, thank you!
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310[05:40:20] <oxek> how come /var/lib/dpkg/statoverride is automatically populated with some entries?
311[05:40:55] <oxek> I thought this file is for the user to override what dpkg would do when some files are being unpacked
312[05:41:50] <oxek> hence it should not be necessary for the file to have some default entries when one is installing from debian repositories, because the .debs in debian repositories should already adhere to some standard that does not need to be overridden by default
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314[05:43:22] <oxek> for example, this is the statoverride file on two of my systems, where I have not modified the file myself replaced-url
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316[05:44:52] <sney> mine has an entry for mlocate, so I went looking, and this is in the package's postinstall script: replaced-url
317[05:45:22] <sney> so your assertion that debs should adhere to the standard is probably one of those things that is not 100% in practice.
318[05:46:19] <oxek> that's a very interesting observation, thanks
319[05:46:21] <jmcnaught> If the file was meant to be edited manually it would be in /etc
320[05:46:38] <oxek> jmcnaught: it gets edited by dpkg-statoverride command
321[05:48:18] <oxek> there probably is not a 100% distinction between /etc/ and /var/ for a lot of configuration files, or at least it is not clear to me
322[05:49:06] <oxek> dpkg is a good example, with files in /var/lib/dpkg/ modifying its behavior
323[05:49:06] <dpkg> oxek: You are person #1 to send an unparseable request
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326[05:51:20] <sney> without checking, I suspect files in /etc are considered conffiles by dpkg and files in /var are not; so you could have debconf confirmations and 'confmiss' implications for the former but not the latter
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329[05:52:22] <oxek> perhaps
330[05:52:56] <oxek> I am still thinking about the postinst scripts using dpkg-statoverride to change the file ownership and file mode of installed files
331[05:53:20] <oxek> it does work, but feels like not the right way of doing it
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333[05:55:32] <sney> it seems like something dh_install or dh_fixperms should be able to do, but it's in neither man page
334[05:56:23] <sney> or the maintainer could have set the permissions in d/rules and then overridden dh_fixperms to do nothing. but I'm not sure which approach is more hacky.
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336[06:00:44] <sney> I've sort of known this intuitively, but this supports it: Debian's insistence on Policy only reduces the amount of duct tape, it doesn't eliminate it.
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340[06:03:44] <oxek> that's a good way of describing this - using dpkg-statoverride as part of debian-provided .debs feels like using duct tape
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342[06:07:21] <sney> and it's clearly pretty rare, my system had 3581 packages installed and only 7 entries in statoverride
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344[06:09:22] <oxek> sounds like whatever makes those 7 entries should be changed to remove a bit of duct tape and replace it with a proper solution
345[06:09:56] <zerocool> what's a decent video card for every day use, doesn't have to be able to play games super well but just has to be good in linux. I'm an IT professional, KDE plasma, transparency and wobbly windows at 144hz is about as much as i need power for
346[06:10:25] <sney> zerocool: I don't know about 144hz but basically any consumer gpu from the past ~8 years should be more than enough
347[06:10:26] <oxek> zerocool: whichever card is integrated in your CPU.
348[06:10:30] <sney> also that
349[06:11:48] <oxek> at least intel and AMD are doing a slightly better job at writing drivers than nvidia
350[06:12:09] <zerocool> oxek: my cpu has no integrated.
351[06:12:14] <sney> you can get into the weeds pretty quickly with amd and opencl support, but I guess that's not technically "graphics"
352[06:12:44] <zerocool> hmm, so nvidia then? should i run the latest cards or 1000 series?
353[06:13:03] <oxek> I'd definitely avoid nvidia, especially since this is #debian and nvidia is not opensource-friendly
354[06:13:28] <oxek> get some cheap AMD card that can drive as many monitors you need
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359[06:18:13] <quadrathoch2> so much this. i love the way amdgpu just works, in comparison to give myself a headache to figure out if nvidia driver works with kernel xy
360[06:18:17] <zerocool> even "just fine" cards as so much money :(
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363[06:20:37] <sney> 1000 series is even probably overkill, I had a gtx 650 in this machine until recently and it was more than sufficient for kde plasma with window effects on 2 monitors
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687[12:35:32] <xoyi-> Hello, I've been experiencing Xorg mini-freezes with Debian Buster (backported Kernel 5.9.0) and an intel chipset. I've posted all my information in the Debian Forums. Is it ok if I also post it here, in case anyone can help?
688[12:35:38] <xoyi-> or is that considered spamming?
689[12:35:54] <ratrace> !pastebin
690[12:35:54] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
691[12:36:05] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip)
692[12:36:59] <xoyi-> sorry I meant to ask if it's ok to just link the forum post here
693[12:37:09] <ratrace> sure
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695[12:37:26] <xoyi-> replaced-url
696[12:37:39] <xoyi-> sorry, wrong link: replaced-url
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698[12:38:34] <ratrace> xoyi-: most important info of all: are there any log entries in dmesg or journal, when that happens?
699[12:38:39] <ratrace> *relevant log entries
700[12:40:39] <xoyi-> ratrace unfortunately no, nothing is even written at all in dmesg, syslog, journalctl or Xorg.0.log
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706[12:42:25] <ratrace> xoyi-: tried changing the kernel? going back to main 4.19?
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708[12:43:00] <ratrace> do you need 5.9 for something specifically? btw, that kernel is EOL
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710[12:43:59] <jelly> OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 7.0 256 bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.3.6
711[12:44:14] <jelly> this is weird, software rendering instead of intel accel
712[12:44:31] <jelly> perhaps the hardware is too new for buster drm and mesa?
713[12:44:38] <ratrace> oh I missed that
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717[12:47:43] <jelly> something to be said about ubuntu's backporting of the whole stack... I'm on 18.04 right now, which is sort of older than buster, and OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel UHD Graphics 620 (WHL GT2). version: 4.6 Mesa 20.0.8
718[12:48:47] *** Joins: OD1234567890 (69f3361f@replaced-ip)
719[12:48:49] <jelly> ,v libdrm2
720[12:48:50] <judd> Package: libdrm2 on amd64 -- jessie: 2.4.58-2; stretch: 2.4.74-1; stretch-backports: 2.4.95-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.4.97-1; bullseye: 2.4.103-2; sid: 2.4.103-2
721[12:49:02] <jelly> ,v libgl1-mesa-dri
722[12:49:03] <judd> Package: libgl1-mesa-dri on amd64 -- jessie: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 10.3.2-1+deb8u2; stretch: 13.0.6-1+b2; stretch-backports: 18.2.8-2~bpo9+1; buster: 18.3.6-2+deb10u1; bullseye: 20.3.2-1; sid: 20.3.2-1
723[12:49:09] <OD1234567890> hi all, relative newbie here hoping you can guide me a bit
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725[12:50:45] <OD1234567890> I have some weird processes running in a VPS that I suspect might be compromised.
726[12:50:45] <OD1234567890> For instance:
727[12:50:46] <OD1234567890> 9575 root 20 0 25572 792 404 S 19.7 0.1 31:46.97 rjnyjvykis
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729[12:53:03] <OD1234567890> I then kill the process and a while later another weird process starts.
730[12:53:03] <OD1234567890> For instance as jjfdfeex
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732[12:53:23] <jelly> don't kill it. lsof -np PID it, save output
733[12:53:25] <OD1234567890> How can I check how/where these processes are started ?
734[12:55:30] *** Quits: PoaB (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
735[12:55:50] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root cwd DIR 254,0 4096 262147 /root
736[12:55:51] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root rtd DIR 254,0 4096 2 /
737[12:55:51] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root txt REG 254,0 548627 136090 /usr/bin/xefpfmhukm
738[12:55:52] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root 0u CHR 1,3 0t0 1028 /dev/null
739[12:55:52] <OD1234567890> xefpfmhuk 23063 root 1u CHR 1,3 0t0 1028 /dev/null
740[12:55:52] *** OD1234567890 was kicked by debhelper (flood)
741[12:56:03] <xoyi-> ratrace I think I needed to backport the newest kernel for some hardware to work properly, I think it was for the graphics card specifically
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745[12:57:20] <jelly> !paste
746[12:57:21] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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748[12:57:37] <xoyi-> jelly so that part (OpenGL renderer) could be the culprit?
749[12:58:03] <jelly> xoyi-, not for freezes, but for performance issues with 3d in general
750[12:58:23] <jelly> try bullseye if you can
751[12:58:45] <xoyi-> I was afraid to, because I'm not very proficient with Linux/Debian, but I might have to do this in the end
752[12:58:54] <jelly> xoyi-, which cpu model is in there?
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754[12:59:22] <xoyi-> i5-10210U
755[12:59:32] <jelly> some 9th gen i5 or i7? Yeah, right
756[12:59:49] <xoyi-> it's a 10thgen
757[12:59:50] <OD1234567890> here is a replaced-url
758[13:00:12] <jelly> xoyi-, does the machine often get warmer than 60 C ?
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760[13:00:49] <xoyi-> hm, I don't think so, I haven't noticed anything like this
761[13:00:57] <xoyi-> btw this could be relevant to my case? replaced-url
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764[13:01:37] <ratrace> 10th gen might indeed require latest kernels.
765[13:01:52] <ratrace> (and even maybe mesa as jelly suggested, yes)
766[13:01:56] <jelly> that kernel is probably new enough
767[13:02:02] <jelly> the rest of the stack, tho
768[13:02:25] <jelly> even xorg is probably fine, drm and mesa are possibly old
769[13:02:34] <ratrace> 5.9? maybe, but it doesn't hurt to try even newer. from what I've read, Intel has poured a lot of patches into 5.10 and 5.11
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772[13:02:52] <jelly> it won't help
773[13:02:54] <BCMM> anybody know why libqalculate 3.x has been languishing in experimental for over a year? there's some sort of transition in progress but i have no idea how to read this page properly replaced-url
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776[13:03:28] <jelly> not without support on the userspace side
777[13:03:53] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
778[13:04:22] <jelly> OD1234567890, what does strace -ff -p 23063 show?
779[13:04:25] <ratrace> jelly: "I'm on 18.04 right now" ... heretic. traitor. ;)
780[13:04:28] <xoyi-> so should I try bullseye?
781[13:05:01] *** Quits: dpkg (~dpkg@replaced-ip) (Quit: buh bye!)
782[13:05:14] <ratrace> xoyi-: I would. it's "soon" to be out anyway, in a few months, if all goes well. so if you don't mind belated security fixes... bullseye might help
783[13:05:25] <jelly> ratrace, sure, but my X1C7 with almost the same GPU _works_, while xoyi's X1C8 does not :-)
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786[13:05:59] <ratrace> but first I'd try to get the 5.10 kernel. it's simpler than bumpign whole OS, and it _may_ be sufficient.
787[13:06:09] *** Quits: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
788[13:06:11] <jelly> unlikely
789[13:06:48] *** Quits: Anderson69s (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
790[13:06:51] <jelly> this is a drm and mesa thing. kernel does kms and memory allocation, not much more
791[13:07:03] <xoyi-> side question: will upgrading to bullseye cause any firmware upgrades too?
792[13:07:33] <jelly> xoyi-, firmware upgrade will only happen if you explicitely run fwupdmgr with specific options
793[13:07:41] *** Parts: jammz (~jaggz@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
794[13:07:46] <oxek> where can I find a suitable debian image URL for this command: 'machinectl pull-tar URL debian'
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796[13:07:51] <BCMM> xoyi-; jelly: well hang on, what sort of firmware updates?
797[13:07:54] <ratrace> jelly: kms and memory allocation and all the other interaction with the gpu :)
798[13:08:03] *** Quits: sirvolta (SirVolta@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
799[13:08:23] <BCMM> if we're talking about the kind of firmware that is loaded every time the machine boots as opposed to semi-permanently flashed to the hardware, then yes, it probably will
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801[13:08:35] <jelly> ratrace, the kernel part of the driver doesn't do much more than that IIRC
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805[13:09:00] <BCMM> (e.g. GPU firmware, on most machines)
806[13:09:03] <xoyi-> so I should follow this guide, right? replaced-url
807[13:09:12] <jelly> ,v intel-microcode
808[13:09:13] <judd> Package: intel-microcode on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 3.20180425.1~deb8u1; stretch-backports/non-free: 3.20190312.1~bpo9+1; jessie-security/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb8u1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb9u1; stretch-security/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb9u1; buster-security/non-free: 3.20200609.2~deb10u1; stretch/non-free: 3.20200616.1~deb9u1; buster/non-free:
809[13:09:14] <judd> 3.20200616.1~deb10u1; buster-backports/non-free: 3.20201118.1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 3.20201118.1; sid/non-free: 3.20201118.1
810[13:09:18] <ratrace> jelly: well Intel has been pouring a lot of code into "[not] much more than that" in 5.10 and .11 ;)
811[13:09:44] <OD1234567890> @jelly - I have no idea how to interpret the output of strace, but it dumps a huge amount of data continously
812[13:09:45] <OD1234567890> replaced-url
813[13:09:55] <jelly> ratrace, sure, supporting new hardware typically. Go ask #intel-gfx
814[13:10:19] <BCMM> xoyi-: was your question about graphics firmware in particular?
815[13:10:28] <xoyi-> yep
816[13:10:36] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
817[13:10:51] <xoyi-> I also had to backport some wifi-related drivers for buster to work properly
818[13:11:02] <xoyi-> so I'm afraid if going to bullseye might mess those up
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820[13:11:40] <jelly> OD1234567890, that snippet is interesting tho. Does /usr/bin/xefpfmhukm exist?
821[13:11:54] <BCMM> xoyi-: newer debian comes with newer graphics firmware, yes (although not every card will actually have an update)
822[13:11:57] <jelly> OD1234567890, you can exit strace with ctrl-c
823[13:12:20] <BCMM> xoyi-: i believe that jelly was thinking of a different sort of firmware, with the reference to fwupdmgr
824[13:12:34] <jelly> xoyi-, I believe there are live image isos for bullseye that may be good enough to test things
825[13:12:41] *** Joins: msh07 (~msh07@replaced-ip)
826[13:13:00] <BCMM> graphics firmware is usually loaded by the graphics driver on every boot, from files which are typically installed by Debian packages (such as firmware-amd-graphics)
827[13:13:01] <OD1234567890> jelly , yes the file does exists. along with quite a few other "suspect" looking files
828[13:13:19] *** Joins: aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@replaced-ip)
829[13:14:06] <jelly> OD1234567890, it's reasonably safe to say your system is compromised
830[13:14:16] <jelly> xoyi-, replaced-url
831[13:14:20] <BCMM> xoyi-: are you sure you need to move to testing? if you've tried installing the backports kernel for a graphics driver, it's quite likely that you also needed to install firmware from backports
832[13:14:48] <OD1234567890> jelly , safest bet to reinstall the VPS ?
833[13:14:50] <xoyi-> BCMM I'm not sure at all
834[13:15:06] <BCMM> sorry, i think i joined after your initial question
835[13:15:17] <ratrace> OD1234567890: yes, you can no longer trust any tool on that machine for any recovery or cleanup
836[13:15:21] <xoyi-> but I think I did install the drivers from backports
837[13:15:34] <jelly> OD1234567890, if you can make a snapshot for a post-mortem analysis that'd be nice as well
838[13:15:37] <ratrace> OD1234567890: but most important than that, is figuring out how you got infected. Otherwise you'll just get infected again. and again.... and again....
839[13:15:56] <jelly> xoyi-, did you also install firmware-misc-nonfree from backports
840[13:15:57] <BCMM> xoyi-: what was the original problem? something wrong with the graphics drivers?
841[13:15:59] <jelly> ,v firmware-misc-nonfree
842[13:16:00] <judd> Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 -- jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20200918-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20201022-1; sid/non-free: 20201118-1
843[13:16:16] <jelly> xoyi-, if you haven't, those might make a difference
844[13:16:25] <xoyi-> I have, yes
845[13:16:31] <xoyi-> I have 20200918
846[13:16:34] *** Quits: banox (~banox@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
847[13:16:44] <xoyi-> (buster-backports/non-free)
848[13:16:45] <BCMM> xoyi-: what GPU do you have, anyway?
849[13:16:46] <jelly> that probably matches 5.9 bdo kernel well
850[13:16:59] <BCMM> most graphics firmware is not in that package!
851[13:17:21] <BCMM> (ok, some graphics firmware is not there)
852[13:17:32] <OD1234567890> indeed ratrace ! the logs were not quite definitive (at least to me) unfortunately
853[13:17:32] <OD1234567890> so i guess reinstall with new passwords etc etc
854[13:17:34] <jelly> judd, file /lib/firmware/i915/skl_guc_ver9_33.bin
855[13:17:40] <judd> Search for /lib/firmware/i915/skl_guc_ver9_33.bin in buster/amd64: firmware-misc-nonfree: lib/firmware/i915/skl_guc_ver9_33.bin
856[13:17:46] <ratrace> OD1234567890: jelly's suggestion to keep a copy for later analysis is sound tho
857[13:17:51] <jelly> BCMM, intel GPU fw is there.
858[13:18:02] <xoyi-> BCMM it's an intel gpu
859[13:18:07] <BCMM> ah, ok then
860[13:18:17] <OD1234567890> jelly, a snapshot of the whole OS, or only of the weird files ?
861[13:18:24] <xoyi-> BCMM for reference, this is the issue: replaced-url
862[13:18:31] <jelly> OD1234567890, the whole machine. Preferably with RAM.
863[13:19:29] <BCMM> xoyi-: anything interesting in dmesg?
864[13:19:42] <xoyi-> no nothing :/ not even in journalctl or Xorg.0.log either
865[13:19:44] <BCMM> (in particular, most drivers complain there if they want to load firmware that is not available)
866[13:20:12] <OD1234567890> jelly, will try, thanks for the advise/help guys
867[13:20:28] <xoyi-> well, there's only this but I think it's wifi-related: iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: firmware: failed to load iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode (-2)
868[13:20:53] <xoyi-> oh and also some ACPI-related errors
869[13:21:03] <mrjpaxton> Hey, I'm thinking of switching back to Debian again from Ubuntu, but I really want to make sure certain software is up to date. I'm wondering what you guys typically do about this? Some options I've been thinking about: debian-backports, Nix package manager, Flatpak, container system (like Docker), an Ubuntu chroot, or something else. There's too many options out there!
870[13:21:22] <BCMM> xoyi-: oh, i just saw Driver "intel"
871[13:21:31] <jelly> xoyi-, that's wifi
872[13:21:34] <xoyi-> and also this one: i801_smbus 0000:00:1f.4: SMBus is busy, can't use it!
873[13:21:57] <mrjpaxton> I'll probably just use debian-backports for the kernel and nothing else. I feel like that's the best use for it, jsut to test out new kernel features.
874[13:21:58] <BCMM> xoyi-: i think on modern intel graphics cards, most people recommend using Xorg's built-in modesetting driver instead
875[13:22:06] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode
876[13:22:10] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
877[13:22:16] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode --release buster-backports
878[13:22:18] <judd> No packages in buster-backports/amd64 were found with that file.
879[13:22:25] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode --release bullseye
880[13:22:28] <judd> No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file.
881[13:22:33] <jelly> :'(
882[13:22:42] <xoyi-> but the wifi works properly
883[13:22:51] <jelly> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-56.ucode --release sid
884[13:22:53] <judd> No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file.
885[13:22:58] <BCMM> xoyi-: is there perhaps a message just after that in dmesg, in which it loads some other firmware file?
886[13:23:21] <BCMM> sometimes a driver looks for the latest firmware first, then if that's not installed, looks for older versions
887[13:23:53] <xoyi-> I'll try modesetting driver in Xorg first
888[13:24:04] <jelly> modesetting should be the default driver.
889[13:24:06] <BCMM> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-55.ucode
890[13:24:10] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
891[13:24:21] <BCMM> judd, file iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-55.ucode --release bullseye
892[13:24:22] <judd> No packages in bullseye/amd64 were found with that file.
893[13:24:36] <BCMM> huh, i'm looking at it on packages.debian.org...
894[13:24:39] <xoyi-> yes it seems that it's loading some other driver right after: iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: firmware: direct-loading firmware iwlwifi-QuZ-a0-hr-b0-55.ucode
895[13:25:13] <xoyi-> also iwlwifi 0000:00:14.3: Detected Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX201 160MHz, REV=0x354
896[13:25:33] <BCMM> that's fine, your driver *could* use newer firmware, but it works fine with the firmware it's got
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898[13:26:07] <BCMM> wireless driver is a red herring here
899[13:26:22] <xoyi-> should I try disable it completely and see if the freezes are gone?
900[13:26:32] <xoyi-> I can use an ethernet cable in the meantime
901[13:26:42] <BCMM> xoyi-: no. wifi is fine.
902[13:26:50] <xoyi-> oh ok
903[13:27:05] <BCMM> jelly: in the forum post it says there is van xorg.conf (that overrides that default graphics driver)
904[13:27:58] <xoyi-> I also tried with no xorg.conf at all, same thing
905[13:27:58] <BCMM> x/van/an/
906[13:28:01] <BCMM> oh
907[13:28:11] <xoyi-> also tried with a xorg.conf after `Xorg -configure`
908[13:28:18] <xoyi-> (after=provided by)
909[13:29:06] <BCMM> judd: any idea if simply having xserver-xorg-video-intel installed will cause it to be used instead of the modesetting driver?
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912[13:29:59] <BCMM> this is in the package description for the intel driver: "The use of this driver is discouraged if your hw is new enough (ca. 2007 and newer). You can try uninstalling this driver and let the server use its builtin modesetting driver instead."
913[13:30:13] <xoyi-> oh, nice find!
914[13:30:39] <xoyi-> I can try removing it
915[13:30:44] <BCMM> xoyi-: you could look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see which driver is being used, or you could just uninstall that package to be sure
916[13:30:54] <xoyi-> did just now (uninstalled)
917[13:31:00] <xoyi-> I have to reboot I assume?
918[13:31:47] <BCMM> you don't *have* to reboot, but rebooting is probably the easiest way to restart X :)
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921[13:34:33] *** Quits: wallacer (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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924[13:35:38] <jelly> xoyi-, oh right, get rid of your xorg.conf
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926[13:36:46] <jelly> Xorg server in buster should try modesetting first; Xorg.0.log probably has clues
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929[13:37:33] <xoyi-> it does, here are the Xorg logs: replaced-url
930[13:38:03] *** Quits: gangstacat (~gangstaca@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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932[13:38:37] <xoyi-> There's an "unknown chipset" warning right there, could that be the issue?
933[13:38:37] <BCMM> xoyi-: that log file is from before uninstalling xserver-xorg-video-intel, right?
934[13:38:59] <xoyi-> BCMM yes, I haven't restarted since then
935[13:39:37] <BCMM> i'd suggest trying the modesetting driver before trying to iron out minor problems with the intel driver
936[13:40:06] <xoyi-> ok I'll reboot now, after removing that package and also my xorg.conf. brb...
937[13:40:35] <xoyi-> what if I change to a new tty and just do a `startx` again?
938[13:40:42] <xoyi-> (I mean, instead of rebooting)
939[13:41:09] <BCMM> if you don't quit your current x session first, i have no idea what it will do to be honest
940[13:41:23] *** Joins: jpe (~jp@replaced-ip)
941[13:41:40] <xoyi-> ok, rebooting :)
942[13:41:44] *** Quits: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed)
943[13:41:46] *** Quits: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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949[13:44:54] <xoyi-> back. I still don't see anything new at the xorg logs :O
950[13:45:39] <xoyi-> but I have a slight impression that things have improved (still no freezes after quite a few minutes)
951[13:45:46] *** Quits: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
952[13:46:15] *** Quits: eliotome3000 (~eliotime@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
953[13:46:37] *** Joins: xoyi- (b9ea3948@replaced-ip)
954[13:46:37] <xoyi-> but I should probably hold my breath
955[13:47:12] *** Joins: fred1m (~quassel@replaced-ip)
956[13:47:38] <ratrace> xoyi-: tl;dr you bumped to bullseye?
957[13:47:40] *** Quits: wallacer (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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961[13:50:06] <xoyi-> but now I get wifi disconnects :/ wpa_supplicant[716]: wlp0s20f3: CTRL-EVENT-SIGNAL-CHANGE above=1 signal=-71 noise=9999 txrate=43300
962[13:50:33] *** Quits: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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964[13:51:11] *** Quits: OD1234567890 (69f3361f@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed)
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969[13:54:25] <xoyi-> isn't it weird that my xorg logs are empty?
970[13:55:34] <xoyi-> so yeah, it seems that that package (xserver-xorg-video-intel) was the culprit(?)
971[13:55:45] <xoyi-> things are looking great now, 0 freezes after 10 minutes
972[13:55:51] <xoyi-> \o/
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980[14:01:16] <xoyi-> but now instead of: `driver: amdgpu,ati,fbdev,intel,modesetting,nouveau,radeon,vesa,vmware` I see `driver: none` in the output of `inxi -SG`
981[14:01:18] <xoyi-> is that normal?
982[14:01:54] *** Quits: MasterdonX (~masterdon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
983[14:02:34] <BCMM> xoyi-: i don't know much about how inxi works, but was it just listing every driver available on the system before? (as opposed to the driver currently in use)
984[14:02:41] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip)
985[14:02:46] <xoyi-> hm no idea either
986[14:02:57] *** Joins: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip)
987[14:03:06] <ratrace> glxinfo | grep -i renderer
988[14:03:58] <xoyi-> ratrace this hasn't change AFAICT: replaced-url
989[14:03:58] <BCMM> xoyi-: on my machine it just shows "driver: amdgpu", even though i have amdgpu and modesetting available on the system. i think it's just a bug in inxi
990[14:04:28] <BCMM> ratrace: yeah, that wouldn't change. xorg drivers are not exactly the same thing as glx drivers.
991[14:04:31] *** Quits: makani (makani@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
992[14:04:54] <ratrace> it should, jelly was right. LLVM means you're using software renderer.
993[14:05:03] <xoyi-> btw I located my Xorg logs (I was searching in the wrong path). The new ones are those: replaced-url
994[14:05:11] <ratrace> this is how it shows on properly accelerated intel HD system: OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Desktop
995[14:05:42] <JackFrost> BCMM: -Gxx should show something more like: driver: intel unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa
996[14:06:01] *** Joins: makani (makani@replaced-ip)
997[14:06:27] <xoyi-> yeah, even though I don't have the freezes now, I have an impression that the graphics driver is not loaded properly
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999[14:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1192
1000[14:08:12] *** Parts: pldiem (~dmazuruk@replaced-ip) ()
1001[14:09:28] *** Quits: mrjpaxton (~hidden@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
1002[14:10:29] <xoyi-> silly question: how can I determine if a driver for my graphics card is loaded and used?
1003[14:11:07] *** Quits: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1004[14:11:33] <LtL> xoyi-: lspci -k usually
1005[14:11:55] <BCMM> xoyi-: kind of depends on what you mean by "graphics driver" - there are a lot of different components
1006[14:12:15] <xoyi-> I see: "Kernel driver in use: i915" under the VGA section
1007[14:12:18] <BCMM> it's possible to have a working kernel driver and Xorg driver but not a working gl implementation
1008[14:12:47] <BCMM> i think llvmpipe is software rendering
1009[14:12:57] <ratrace> (it is)
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1011[14:13:59] <BCMM> xoyi-: is libglx-mesa0 installed?
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1013[14:14:33] <xoyi-> yep, 18.3.6-2
1014[14:14:46] <BCMM> oh sorry, of course it is...
1015[14:14:55] <BCMM> xoyi-: do you use a display manager or just do startx?
1016[14:15:38] <xoyi-> just startx
1017[14:16:27] <BCMM> have you added yourself to the right groups to be able to do that?
1018[14:16:40] <xoyi-> from the Xorg logs I've pasted above, I can't really determine which driver Xorg is using
1019[14:17:00] <xoyi-> BCMM I'm in audio, video, staff
1020[14:17:15] <BCMM> xoyi-: "Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/modesetting_drv.so" says you're using the modesetting driver now
1021[14:18:38] *** Joins: k-man (~jason@replaced-ip)
1022[14:19:05] <xoyi-> oh ok, thanks
1023[14:19:17] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip)
1024[14:19:28] <BCMM> well ok it's also possible for it to load and use other modules afterwards but there's a lot of lines starting modeset(0): later showing that it's actually running
1025[14:20:16] <xoyi-> so things are not freezing now, but the fact that it uses a software acceleration means something is wrong, right?
1026[14:20:46] <xoyi-> is there any other way to determine if things are not set up correctly? e.g. opening an 1080p youtube video or something?
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1029[14:21:52] <BCMM> xoyi-: i think you might need to be in the render group as well as video
1030[14:22:16] <BCMM> i'm not 100% sure on that, though (most people just use a display manager and magically get permissions by being the locally logged-in user)
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1032[14:22:58] <ratrace> wouldn't that be the case even if you log in through the console? ie. it's logind doing all that?
1033[14:23:13] <BCMM> not sure, to be honest
1034[14:23:29] <BCMM> but you could test it by doing touch /dev/dri/render*
1035[14:23:38] <ratrace> and you're right about render group, though with a DM it's solved via ACLs, not group membership
1036[14:24:02] <ratrace> getfacl /dev/dri/renderD128 -> user:myuser:rw-
1037[14:25:15] <xoyi-> I can do that
1038[14:25:21] <xoyi-> (I mean the `touch ..` thing)
1039[14:25:26] <xoyi-> I added myself to the render group
1040[14:25:36] <ratrace> xoyi-: check with getfacl if you already have the ACL
1041[14:26:31] <ratrace> (btw, lack of permission would've been noted in Xorg.0.log)
1042[14:27:28] <xoyi-> ratrace replaced-url
1043[14:28:14] *** Quits: rolo (~error@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1044[14:28:23] <ratrace> right, you have the ACL, you don't need "render" group membership
1045[14:28:36] <xoyi-> I see
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1047[14:29:17] <ratrace> just check you have the ACL for other devices too. on my system there's also /dev/dri/card0
1048[14:29:28] <BCMM> that's usually video group anyway
1049[14:29:38] <ratrace> indeed
1050[14:29:50] <xoyi-> I do have them
1051[14:30:47] <ratrace> so I guess permissions aren't the issue. unless apparmor or selinux, but that's unlikely? or.... did you do anything there (it's not default)?
1052[14:31:11] <BCMM> xoyi-: so was glx working before, when you were using the intel driver?
1053[14:32:12] <xoyi-> no idea, how can I determine that?
1054[14:32:24] <xoyi-> ah you mean the `glxinfo | grep renderer` part?
1055[14:32:27] <BCMM> yeah
1056[14:32:35] <xoyi-> I *think* it was always like that
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1058[14:33:06] <ratrace> xoyi-: I didn't read the entire scrollback; did you bump to bullseye?
1059[14:33:49] <xoyi-> nope
1060[14:34:16] <ratrace> so you still have that option
1061[14:34:23] <xoyi-> because others suggested to try removing the xserver-xorg-video-intel package first, and indeed that fixed the freezes
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1064[14:35:03] <xoyi-> sure - so there still seems something is off here, right?
1065[14:35:12] *** Quits: HerbY_NL3 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
1066[14:35:37] <xoyi-> (I'm kinda confused regarding what state my system is at right now., if something is broken or not)
1067[14:35:54] <BCMM> i wonder if mesa is too old for that gpu
1068[14:36:33] <BCMM> xoyi-: it sounds to me like opengl is not working
1069[14:36:55] <BCMM> just to confirm, this is a pure intel graphics machine, right? not nvidia hybrid graphics or anything?
1070[14:36:59] <xoyi-> so that means my GPU is not used at all by the kernel?
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1072[14:37:02] <xoyi-> or just by X?
1073[14:37:15] <BCMM> xoyi-: it means the gpu is not used by opengl applications
1074[14:37:32] <BCMM> which basically means games and desktop compositors
1075[14:37:50] <xoyi-> the GPU is: Intel FHD
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1077[14:37:58] <xoyi-> (it's a lenovo thinkpad carbon x1 8th gen)
1078[14:38:33] <xoyi-> so there's no nvidia stuff, no
1079[14:39:01] <xoyi-> BCMM does Firefox also uses OpenGL? e.g. for youtube videos?
1080[14:39:29] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1081[14:39:30] *** BrianG61UK__ is now known as BrianG61UK
1082[14:39:35] <BCMM> xoyi-: firefox can use opengl for accelerated rendering (off by default for now) and for web pages that use webgl (like google maps in 3d mode)
1083[14:39:37] *** Quits: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1084[14:39:43] <xoyi-> oh ok
1085[14:39:52] <BCMM> firefox uses a different api for gpu video decode
1086[14:40:02] <BCMM> (which is also off by default)
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1088[14:40:46] <xoyi-> in that case, I guess I can wait a bit for bullseye to become more "stable" and only then upgrade to it. Until then, I can live with not having OpenGL apps, since I'm using this purely as a developer workstation (no games, just Xorg/i3 and surfing)
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1091[14:41:56] <xoyi-> so there's not some kind of "blessed" driver for the given graphics card in Debian?
1092[14:42:16] <xoyi-> I don't quite get which packages I should install (if any) on a fresh Debian Buster installation, given my laptop
1093[14:42:17] *** Joins: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip)
1094[14:42:27] <xoyi-> (related to the graphics card of course)
1095[14:43:06] *** Joins: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip)
1096[14:43:11] <BCMM> it might be that you could just use backports mesa
1097[14:45:21] <xoyi-> I have the following mesa-related packages installed currently: replaced-url
1098[14:45:30] <xoyi-> are you talking about any of those?
1099[14:46:14] *** Quits: brickfat (~brickfat@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1100[14:46:40] <xoyi-> btw `apt list --upgradable` returns 0 results
1101[14:46:49] <xoyi-> and I have buster-backports added in my sources
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1103[14:49:31] <BCMM> xoyi-: adding buster-backports to your sources does not automatically upgrade all possible packages to the backports version
1104[14:49:39] <BCMM> you have to specifically request backports packages
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1106[14:49:50] <xoyi-> oh ok
1107[14:50:08] <xoyi-> so which mesa package are you referring to?
1108[14:50:37] <BCMM> never mind, there doesn't seem to be a backports version of mesa
1109[14:51:23] *** Quits: aborazmeh (~aborazmeh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1110[14:51:24] <xoyi-> I'm somewhat eager to try bullseye, but I don't know how much additional trouble I'll get into, so I'm afraid to :P
1111[14:51:57] *** Quits: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1112[14:52:02] <xoyi-> good thing is I only care about few stuff: xorg, i3, docker, vim
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1114[14:52:10] <JackFrost> Yeah I already jumped where I could to it, otherwise there's silly py2 deprecations I need to take care of.
1115[14:52:27] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip)
1116[14:52:44] <xoyi-> If I could find someone with the same workstation who tried it, I'd be less afraid
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1120[14:55:19] <xoyi-> not actually the same case, but people also suggest here that Buster is too old for using it in brand new hardware: replaced-url
1121[14:55:41] <greycat> backported kernel/xorg/mesa/firmware goes a long way though
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1124[14:56:03] <BCMM> greycat: is there a backported mesa available for the current Stable?
1125[14:56:12] <greycat> but yes, in general, a stable release of *any* Linux will fail to support bleeding edge hardware
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1127[14:56:44] * greycat looks at "dpkg -l | grep mesa" and gives up
1128[14:56:55] <xoyi-> so I only add buster-backports main?
1129[14:56:59] <xoyi-> (to my sources I mean)
1130[14:57:33] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip)
1131[14:58:11] <BCMM> if you're fine with not having opengl until the next release, i reckon you can just carry on
1132[14:58:17] <xoyi-> greycat: I don't see anything in backports related to xorg or mesa :/
1133[14:58:30] <xoyi-> I did backport the kernel (5.9.0)
1134[14:58:39] <greycat> ,v xserver-xorg
1135[14:58:40] <judd> Package: xserver-xorg on amd64 -- jessie: 1:7.7+7; buster: 1:7.7+19; stretch: 1:7.7+19; bullseye: 1:7.7+21; sid: 1:7.7+21
1136[14:58:41] <BCMM> pretty sure there is no backports mesa at the moment replaced-url
1137[14:58:43] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~dionysus6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1138[14:58:45] <greycat> Hmm.
1139[14:58:49] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip)
1140[14:58:56] <BCMM> (for buster, anyway.)
1141[14:59:11] *** Joins: Freneticks (~Frenetick@replaced-ip)
1142[14:59:18] <xoyi-> oh, bullseye also has the same xorg version?
1143[14:59:22] <xoyi-> ...as Buster?
1144[14:59:43] <Freneticks> is there something to upgrade mirror (/etc/apt/sources.list) with dpkg-reconfigure ?
1145[14:59:45] <ratrace> xorg versions change very rarely
1146[14:59:56] <xoyi-> and now sure how I can backport firmware
1147[14:59:59] <ratrace> Freneticks: "upgrade" the list? to what?
1148[14:59:59] <xoyi-> not*
1149[15:00:20] <greycat> ,v firmware-misc-nonfree
1150[15:00:21] <judd> Package: firmware-misc-nonfree on amd64 -- jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20200918-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20201022-1; sid/non-free: 20201118-1
1151[15:00:21] <ratrace> xoyi-: what's stopping you from going full bullseye? security fixes?
1152[15:00:23] <tarzeau> greycat: linux can also fail on old hardware, it's a matter of who produced it, if the document is widely available, and worth to write support for it (popularity/price)
1153[15:00:30] <Freneticks> ratrace: like the fatest mirror, or something near the country, not the default which seems to be in us
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1155[15:00:47] <tarzeau> greycat: now there's that crazy people with asahilinux getting linux to run on apple m1 hardware
1156[15:01:00] <greycat> yes, "too old" is also an issue
1157[15:01:02] <tarzeau> i remember the wps printers, they were such a mess.
1158[15:01:24] <xoyi-> ratrace: fear of bumping onto issues that I'll not have the time to fix (I'm starting work next week)
1159[15:01:35] <ratrace> Freneticks: "fastest" mirror is a myth. something could "fastest" today, and very much under crawling load tomorrow.
1160[15:01:43] <xoyi-> (time or knowledge)
1161[15:01:56] <xoyi-> but you people were very helpful here, so there's that
1162[15:01:59] <ratrace> Freneticks: but you can switch from the CDN (which sould behave as "fastest" anyway), to a ccTLD or explicit mirror in your country
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1164[15:02:15] <ratrace> Freneticks: pick your poison: replaced-url
1165[15:02:19] <BCMM> xoyi-: xorg doesn't move very fast these days
1166[15:02:27] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1167[15:02:29] <ratrace> xoyi-: right.
1168[15:02:39] <Freneticks> ratrace: well, in the cli wizard of installation you can select a country, and it's bypassed if network don't work. So i'm looking a way to get this wizard again
1169[15:02:42] <tarzeau> ratrace: no point in the faster mirror if your dns servers suck
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1171[15:03:38] <ratrace> Freneticks: it's a text file. open in an editor (with root privileges). edit the URLs. save. ????? profit! :)
1172[15:03:40] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1173[15:04:01] <BCMM> you know, i don't actually understand debian's version numbering for xserver-xorg at all
1174[15:04:09] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
1175[15:04:37] <Freneticks> ratrace: i know that, i can't memorise url. Where can I find those right url ?
1176[15:04:38] <BCMM> upstream seems to be on version 1.20, debian has "7.7"?
1177[15:04:45] <greycat> I think xorg development is basically "done" because they want to work on Wayland instead.
1178[15:04:52] <Freneticks> don't say wiki i mean in a terminal way
1179[15:05:25] <greycat> Freneticks: it may not exist outside of the installer.
1180[15:05:48] <greycat> most people just edit the sources.list to use whatever mirror they want
1181[15:06:06] <BCMM> it appears to use the x11 version rather than the xorg version, for xorg. as in X11R7.7
1182[15:06:08] <ratrace> BCMM: iirc it was similar to java. Java 8 is actually 1.8. xorg-server 7.7. is actually 1.7.7 or something like that
1183[15:06:11] <Freneticks> in arch/gentoo there is a mirror file with all mirror it's very easy
1184[15:06:12] *** Quits: lowin (~lowin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1185[15:06:55] <greycat> It's easy in Debian too -- you just remember "replaced-url
1186[15:07:01] <BCMM> ratrace: nah, it must be the x11 protocol version as opposed to the xorg version (so it hasn't been bumped since 2012)
1187[15:07:21] <greycat> or replace .us. with whatever country code you think will work
1188[15:07:31] <ratrace> Freneticks: I don't know if debian maintains a list of mirrors as an updateable package
1189[15:07:45] <ratrace> BCMM: ah yes, now that you mention it, that rings a bell
1190[15:07:46] <greycat> !deb.debian.org
1191[15:07:48] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See replaced-url
1192[15:08:00] <BCMM> i'm guessing that xorg 7.7+19 corresponds to x11r7.7 and xorg 1.19
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1194[15:08:11] <ratrace> BCMM: probably, yes
1195[15:08:52] <BCMM> the timeline looks about right for that
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1199[15:13:14] <xoyi-> so when do you ppl think that bullseye is going to be released as stable?
1200[15:13:38] <ratrace> sometime mid this year if all goes well
1201[15:13:44] <JackFrost> ~230 days from now.
1202[15:14:50] <ratrace> what hat did you pull that number out of?
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1204[15:15:06] <themill> it wasn't a hat
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1206[15:15:34] <ratrace> I was being polite :)
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1212[15:19:16] <xoyi-> btw thanks a lot for the help everyone!
1213[15:19:20] <BCMM> xoyi-: this year, basically
1214[15:19:45] <BCMM> xoyi-: probably approximately following the pattern established by previous releases replaced-url
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1217[15:21:03] <JackFrost> ratrace: Wild guess, looking at replaced-url
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1220[15:21:12] <BCMM> but also debian is released "when it's done". it does not do the Ubuntu thing where they pick a fixed date years in advance and it will come out on that date, whatever state it is in
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1229[15:27:08] <Kliment> Anyone know where the installer gets its defaults from?
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1236[15:29:51] <ksk> Kliment: defaults as in? maybe replaced-url
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1239[15:30:21] <greycat> I can't even guess which "defaults" that question refers to.
1240[15:30:43] *** Joins: tkob (thekingofb@replaced-ip)
1241[15:30:56] <ksk> be aware that "no sane administrator" actually uses them, we either install what we want directly or go with config-managment if you like that..
1242[15:32:02] <greycat> you're assuming the question refers to "tasks" or bundles of packages selectable during installation ... which it might.
1243[15:32:09] <Kliment> I mean, when I use the graphical installer (this is the kde image), it has some defaults it uses for the things it doesn't ask
1244[15:32:19] <greycat> What. Things.
1245[15:32:30] *** Joins: ArsenArsen (~Arsen@replaced-ip)
1246[15:32:49] <Kliment> and I'd like to know where these are stored. Things like how big the partitions are in the automatic partitioning
1247[15:32:54] <greycat> also, "the kde image" implies a Live. installing from a Live was never really kosher until recently, and most of us don't do it.
1248[15:33:11] <greycat> Oh, I've never used automatic partitioning either.
1249[15:33:15] <Kliment> yes, sorry, installing from a live image
1250[15:33:49] <ksk> Kliment: I dont think there is "things like .." in this context, you will kind of have to look up one by one. I would assume there is some magic included in the automatic disk setup, depending on your disk(s).
1251[15:33:54] <Kliment> I'd like to see the defaults because they're a sane basic configuration but I'd like to change some sizes
1252[15:34:00] <greycat> !d-i
1253[15:34:01] <dpkg> Information about the development of the debian-installer is at the developers page replaced-url
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1256[15:34:56] <Kliment> does the graphical installer have a name?
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1258[15:35:05] <greycat> It's part of d-i.
1259[15:36:14] <Mister00X> Kliment: The live installer is called calamares
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1263[15:37:59] <Kliment> Mister00X: thanks!
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1283[16:06:31] <nifker> Which package contains s2ram?
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1285[16:07:51] <ratrace> !apt-file
1286[16:07:51] <dpkg> apt-file is a utility used to find which package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it is not installed: "apt install apt-file && apt-file update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>, <dlocate>.
1287[16:08:25] <nifker> !apt-file search s2ram
1288[16:08:36] <ratrace> it's a package you need to install
1289[16:08:55] <greycat> or ask packages.debian.org or ask judd
1290[16:09:05] <BCMM> nifker: are you just trying to sleep your computer?
1291[16:09:11] <nifker> BCMM: yes
1292[16:09:20] <BCMM> nifker: try `systemctl suspend`
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1294[16:10:41] <BCMM> I don't think there's much need for uswsusp these days, at least on Debian
1295[16:10:57] <ratrace> unless you're one of them people who aren't running systemd :)
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1297[16:11:33] <BCMM> then you should still find another solution, cos it's not going to be in the next debian release
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1299[16:12:35] <ratrace> doesn't echo to somewhere in /sys or /proc still work?
1300[16:12:40] <BCMM> (do you actually have to do any actions before just telling the kernel to sleep, on a modern system?)
1301[16:13:01] <BCMM> ratrace: yeah, but uswsusp does some stuff first i think
1302[16:13:21] <BCMM> archwiki says "Since HAL is deprecated and KMS drivers can save the state of the graphics card directly without userspace quirks, s2ram development is discontinued"
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1304[16:13:43] <BCMM> well i guess that worked
1305[16:13:44] <ratrace> very good.
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1307[16:14:14] <BCMM> and i think uswsusp was basically just doing, um, something or other that makes the graphics driver happy followed by echo > /sys/whatever
1308[16:14:56] <ratrace> I haven't used suspend or hibernate in quite some time
1309[16:15:07] <ratrace> since jessie I think?
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1319[16:23:46] <BCMM> maybe it's progress or maybe it's just cos i've stopped using nvidia hardware, but it basically just works now
1320[16:24:08] <BCMM> there is a button in kde and when i press it, the computer sleeps
1321[16:24:15] <BCMM> if i have a swap partition, there's a hibernate one too
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1403[17:42:21] <Voltum> i see that the latest stable for nginx is 1.18.0 but on debian buster 1.14.2 is available
1404[17:42:41] <Voltum> is this due some incompatibility or just out of date?
1405[17:42:56] <Voltum> i am thinking of using the official nginx debian repository to get the stable
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1407[17:45:00] <ratrace> Voltum: debian doesn't upgrade software during the lifecycle of a release, with a few notable exceptions. instead security fixes and to some extent bugfixes, are ported as patches.
1408[17:45:25] <ratrace> so if you want latest nginx, and latest bugs, you should use official nginx debian repo, yes.
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1411[17:46:59] <Voltum> this is unrelated, but searching for their official repo: i find nginx.com and nginx.org
1412[17:47:06] <Voltum> are both of those sites official?
1413[17:47:16] <azeem> guess so
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1424[17:59:15] <ratrace> Voltum: yes. .com is oriented at their commercial edition, while .org is the foss one
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1451[18:17:18] <mulletman> I just downloaded a bunch of graphics, many of which I can not seem to rename with krusader, nautilus, or xnview, nor archive with tar
1452[18:18:17] <mulletman> It seems to be something about the characters used, they show up as a combo of normal chars and ??? in krusader and nautilus and in the term but in xnview they look much stranger, almost like some sort of markup lang?
1453[18:19:02] <mulletman> I was able to move them to this disk, that is from an ext4 fs to a ntfs fs, but now cant do anything with them...
1454[18:19:08] <BCMM> what locale are you using?
1455[18:19:19] <mulletman> US
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1457[18:19:38] <BCMM> but utf8, right?
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1459[18:20:11] <mulletman> ah sorry, I assume utf8 but am not sure, how would I check that?
1460[18:20:29] <BCMM> you could just type "locale"
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1463[18:21:25] <mulletman> doh - that was a bit obvious (thank you)
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1465[18:21:35] <mulletman> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
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1467[18:22:06] <mulletman> actually en_US.UTF-8 for everything according to locale
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1469[18:23:34] <mulletman> For what its worth, many of the files it seems were "named" using symbols or something like that?
1470[18:24:09] <zutat> maybe it's chinese or some other asian language
1471[18:24:58] <zutat> sometimes fonts are missing the characters and you see strange placeholders with code in them
1472[18:25:27] <mulletman> Possible but I dont think so (in this case at least)
1473[18:25:42] <mulletman> though is it possible to mix fonts in a filename?
1474[18:26:27] <mulletman> because they are not total jibberish, part of the name is totally normal, and then the rest shows up as ???? in most of the apps, but in something that really looks like a ML in xnview
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1476[18:27:00] <BCMM> mulletman: filename are unformated text - you can't specify fonts. some applications may display the filename using more than one font, if your main font does not include all the characters the filename uses
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1480[18:29:13] <mulletman> so does that make it so one is not able to rename something, say to characters that my main font does have?
1481[18:29:35] <mulletman> because currently I cant rename these files using anything so far
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1488[18:34:20] <ilikeyou> any way to force apt to be interactive beyond its default? small package installs are not interactive
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1491[18:37:29] <BCMM> ilikeyou: as in always ask, even if it won't install any extra packages?
1492[18:38:21] <ilikeyou> BCMM: yes
1493[18:38:33] <BCMM> ilikeyou: i don't think so, but you could always do a dry-run first
1494[18:39:05] <jhutchins> mulletman: Can you tab complete the names?
1495[18:39:38] <jhutchins> mulletman: What have you tried, just the image programs?
1496[18:40:00] <mulletman> jhutchins, yes I can tab complete the names but not rename them in the term
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1499[18:40:38] <mulletman> jhutchins, I have tried the term, a few file mans, and an image program, as well as tar'ing them none of the programs seem to know what to do and spit out various errors
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1501[18:42:04] <mulletman> like when i try mv imgur_WNv6nZ0_which snack?.jpg newfilename.jpg i get mv: cannot stat 'imgur_WNv6nZ0_which snack?.jpg': Input/output error
1502[18:42:46] <mulletman> same when i try putting quotes around the name (actually quotes returns a no such file or dir)
1503[18:43:20] <ilikeyou> BCMM: fair enough. thanks
1504[18:43:27] <BCMM> mulletman: can you try, like, `stat imgur*`?
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1506[18:45:03] <mulletman> BCMM, mv: cannot stat 'imgur_WNv6nZ0_whic*.jpg': No such file or directory
1507[18:45:18] <mulletman> or were you being literal? with the stat part?
1508[18:46:03] <BCMM> i was being entirely literal. what command did you type? did you quote something?
1509[18:48:05] <mulletman> stat imgur_WNv6nZ0* returns stat: cannot stat 'imgur_WNv6nZ0_which snack?.jpg': Input/output error
1510[18:48:38] <mulletman> I can't separate this file from the others, there are a bunch in one dir
1511[18:48:45] <BCMM> "Input/output error". oh.
1512[18:49:00] <jhutchins> mulletman: Have you tried escaping the space with \ ? I know quotes should cover that, but it's worth a try.
1513[18:49:13] <BCMM> mulletman: anything interesting in dmesg? could there be something wrong with the filesystem?
1514[18:49:47] <BCMM> (or indeed the disk)
1515[18:49:50] <jhutchins> mulletman: There's a utility called "mc" (midnight commander) that used to be our go-to tool for dealing with difficult filenames.
1516[18:50:28] <BCMM> Input/output error doesn't seem like it's a filename thing to me
1517[18:50:36] <mulletman> really? I actually stopped using mc awhile ago because it totally mauled a slew of files (thier names), not on this batch though
1518[18:50:47] <mulletman> will check dmesg
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1521[18:53:12] <mulletman> well I dont understand much from dmesg but it did show an error cound since last fsck as 1, can post to a pastebin?
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1523[18:53:24] <choice> Hello! How can I tell my laptop that it should lock the screen when I close the lid? (lock screen and suspend would be even better)
1524[18:54:14] <quadrathoch2> Choice look under power management in your de
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1526[18:54:58] <BCMM> mulletman: please do pastebin that
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1528[18:55:07] <choice> quadrathoch2: I did. There is nothing.
1529[18:55:39] <BCMM> choice: what DE?
1530[18:56:10] <choice> BCMM: The one with the taskbar .. what was it called again?
1531[18:56:23] <choice> BCMM: Mate!
1532[18:57:06] <mulletman> BCMM, replaced-url
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1536[18:59:02] <BCMM> mulletman: this isn't a physical machine, is it?
1537[18:59:22] <BCMM> oh right, qubes
1538[18:59:31] <mulletman> BCMM, I am accessing a physical disk from a VM
1539[18:59:44] <mulletman> sorry, didnt think that was relevant?
1540[18:59:59] <BCMM> [ 4.090782] EXT4-fs (xvdb): warning: mounting fs with errors, running e2fsck is recommended
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1542[19:00:03] <mulletman> an external physical disk that is
1543[19:00:07] <BCMM> did fsck get run?
1544[19:00:51] <mulletman> I havent run it yet, but that is not actually the drive that is having problems, afaik i can access everything on xvdb
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1549[19:01:10] <mulletman> the disk that has files i cant seem to do anything with is xvdi
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1551[19:02:46] <BCMM> i can't see an xvdi. i guess i don't know much about xen virtual block devices
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1554[19:04:01] <mulletman> I only saw one mention of it in the dmesg output, [ 118.659910] blkfront: xvdi: barrier or flush: disabled; persistent grants: enabled; indirect descriptors: enabled;
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1558[19:05:21] <mulletman> Do you think connecting the phys ext disk to a win machine and running whatever win uses to check disks would be of benefit? as its an ntfs fs
1559[19:06:26] <quadrathoch2> mulletman very much as the ntfs Tools are not great on linux
1560[19:06:38] <quadrathoch2> chance, sorry no idea about mate
1561[19:06:49] <quadrathoch2> choice ^
1562[19:07:50] <mulletman> quadrathoch2, thanks. The ext drive is a "drobo" and the consensus seems to be that any of the extfs on it are not a great idea hence the ntfs
1563[19:07:53] <BCMM> mulletman: is it an ntfs disk?
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1565[19:08:03] <BCMM> oh right sorry you answered that
1566[19:08:12] <BCMM> yes you should probably use windows to check your ntfs disk
1567[19:08:12] <mulletman> BCMM, yes (no worries)
1568[19:08:24] <mulletman> ok, will try that when i get home. thanks all!
1569[19:08:31] <BCMM> (in general avoid ntfs unless you're exchanging data with a windows system)
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1573[19:11:52] <sig_9> BCMM: not necessarily
1574[19:12:20] <Voltum> whats the command to see version of package available in various repos? like backports, stable etc?
1575[19:12:29] <Voltum> apt-policy something i think
1576[19:13:15] <BCMM> Voltum: apt-cache policy?
1577[19:13:16] <greycat> you from *your* system? uh... aptitude? rmadison or something? from here, you'd ask judd.
1578[19:13:22] <sig_9> apt search packagename
1579[19:13:36] <greycat> I guess apt policy would also work.
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1582[19:14:38] <BCMM> are all these shortcuts in the apt command documented somewhere?
1583[19:14:45] <sig_9> apt search
1584[19:14:47] <BCMM> `apt policy` isn't mentioned `man apt`
1585[19:15:32] <greycat> The apt and apt-get man pages are definitely incomplete.
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1588[19:16:38] <Voltum> another question, i see a package available both in buster and buster-backports (which i have enabled): to install it i do apt-get -t buster-backports package
1589[19:16:53] <Voltum> is there a way to always get that package from backports, without having to specify -t
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1591[19:17:26] <greycat> No. By design. On purpose. backports are NOT to be used as a default for new packages.
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1593[19:17:45] <greycat> Once you've installed it from backports, though, future updates to backports should be used by "apt update".
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1595[19:17:52] <greycat> err, "apt upgrade"
1596[19:17:54] <Voltum> oh i see
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1598[19:18:13] <BCMM> Voltum: what do you mean by "always get that package from backports"?
1599[19:18:34] <BCMM> do you want something you can set just for that specific package, or do you want apt to *always* prefer backports?
1600[19:18:39] <Voltum> i was looking specifically for ejabberd, they dont seem to provide a repository (like nginx does) with the latest stable for debian, they just provide a deb package
1601[19:18:50] <greycat> ,v ejabberd
1602[19:18:51] <judd> Package: ejabberd on amd64 -- jessie: 14.07-4+deb8u3; stretch: 16.09-4; stretch-backports: 18.12.1-2~bpo9+1; buster: 18.12.1-2; buster-backports: 20.12-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 20.12-1; sid: 20.12-1
1603[19:19:06] <Voltum> no i just wanted to grab the latest every time i upgrade, without having to manually get the deb file from their site
1604[19:19:30] <greycat> once you install it from buster-backports it should continue to use any future updates from buster-backports *IF* there are any
1605[19:19:31] <BCMM> Voltum: if you with -t backports it will get updates from backports in future
1606[19:19:39] <BCMM> ^if you install with
1607[19:20:23] <greycat> There's no guarantee that anyone will update it in buster-backports. Depends on how many people care about it, and how responsive they are to new versions.
1608[19:20:31] <BCMM> you don't have to do, like, apt upgrade -t buster-backports or anything
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1610[19:20:43] <Voltum> yeah, thing is i do the installation with ansible, will have to see if they offer a mechanism for that
1611[19:20:52] <BCMM> yes, ok. obviously it will not install updates if no updates exist. thanks greycat.
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1614[19:21:30] <BCMM> point is that you won't be stuck with a new version in backports being ignored while apt waits for the stable version to overtake it
1615[19:21:34] <Voltum> gneh
1616[19:21:52] <Voltum> they do have a mechanism for specifying -t, with the apt module. so everything is good
1617[19:22:23] <Voltum> BCMM, i see
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1620[19:24:16] <mulletman> BCMM, would what ever macs use cooperate better with linux than ntfs?
1621[19:24:21] <sig_9> Voltum: lots of different ways to search packages
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1623[19:24:29] <sig_9> apt search I use a lot: replaced-url
1624[19:25:06] <mulletman> I just ask because it seems to be inadvisable to use extfs on drobo, which leaves me with ntfs or i think the mac fs (drobo seems to be pretty mac centric)
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1626[19:25:27] <BCMM> mulletman: i don't know, i don't use macs much. doesn't linux natively support hfs?
1627[19:25:35] <Voltum> another thing, i automate an apt installation with ansible and don't want to lose my previous confs. i see dpkg offers these options: --force-confnew --force-confdef --force-confold. according to the manpage, i can use both --force-confold and --force-confdef, in which case the default option is preferred otherwise the old config is kept
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1629[19:26:12] <Voltum> are there packages that have already defined a default option? like keep old config or replace with the new one? i usually always use the old conf
1630[19:26:22] <sig_9> you can download "extFS" for mac
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1632[19:26:31] <sig_9> it will allow you to use ext4 FS's
1633[19:26:37] <mulletman> BCMM, not sure, will check into that. I am just assuming that since mac is *NIX based, the fs it uses would likely play with linux better. cheers
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1635[19:26:58] <sig_9> mulletman: it will, just download the extFS for Mac
1636[19:27:11] <BCMM> mulletman: looks like hfs+ only works as read-write if the journal is switched off
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1639[19:27:42] <sig_9> also you can add ext4 support to macOS with 'osxfuse' and
1640[19:27:48] <sig_9> 'ext4fuse'
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1699[20:25:43] <daysun> how do you update a system behind a very strong firewall?
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1701[20:26:48] <greycat> Depends on what your options are. Can the system be taken offline and moved physically to a place that isn't restricted? Can you poke a temporary hole through the firewall?
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1703[20:27:54] <daysun> Full control over the firewall.
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1705[20:28:03] <daysun> interesting idea.. to temporarily open it up!
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1707[20:28:16] * daysun pets greycat!!
1708[20:28:38] <daysun> You deserve another one!
1709[20:28:43] * daysun pets greycat!
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1713[20:30:12] <daysun> I was thinking about opening up the correct ports and such for updates.. but that's a hassle I suppose?
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1724[20:41:16] <greycat> Only you will know how much of a hassle each option is.
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1736[20:46:02] <Wafficus> Hi there, I have question regarding Debian 10 Buster. I want to force an Emacs 27 install. Do I have to upgrade to a more experimental version?
1737[20:46:14] <Wafficus> *Emacs Version 27 to install itself.
1738[20:46:28] <Wafficus> currently, I have Emacs 26.1 installed
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1743[20:47:14] <quadrathoch2> ,v emacs
1744[20:47:15] <judd> Package: emacs on amd64 -- jessie: 46.1; stretch: 46.1; buster: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; buster-updates: 1:26.1+1-3.2+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:27.1+1-3; sid: 1:27.1+1-3
1745[20:47:33] <quadrathoch2> ,checkbackport emacs
1746[20:47:58] <judd> Backporting package emacs in sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using archignore, buster, virtual.
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1748[20:48:09] <quadrathoch2> !ssb
1749[20:48:10] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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1751[20:48:22] <quadrathoch2> Wafficus ^
1752[20:48:35] <Wafficus> ah, bear with me on this one
1753[20:48:38] <greycat> Your choices are to backport it yourself (see above); or to build from upstream source code; or to upgrade your whole system to testing.
1754[20:48:49] <Wafficus> so I have to install a "backport" that's compatible with Debian 10 Buster?
1755[20:48:52] <Wafficus> ah gotcha
1756[20:48:57] <Wafficus> I would upgrade my whole system to testing
1757[20:48:59] <Wafficus> that I don't mind
1758[20:49:02] <greycat> Or, the best choice of all for most people, just live with the version you have.
1759[20:49:05] <Wafficus> I only literally use the VM for Emacs
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1761[20:49:19] <Wafficus> can't live with that version of Emacs, there's a lot of changes that just are better in the latest one
1762[20:49:34] <Wafficus> so how do I force Debian to upgrade itself to the testing branch instead of Debian 10 Buster stable
1763[20:49:43] <greycat> !testing
1764[20:49:43] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See replaced-url
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1770[20:51:54] <ratrace> !testing-security
1771[20:51:55] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See replaced-url
1772[20:52:30] <ratrace> this should be separately highlighted in the !testing factoid
1773[20:52:53] <greycat> It's a rather long factoid already.
1774[20:53:18] <greycat> <testing security> is there ... is that different from <testing-security>?
1775[20:53:25] <ratrace> sure, what I mean is <testing security> should be made more visible in that factoid
1776[20:54:02] <ratrace> greycat: they're aliases
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1778[20:54:14] <greycat> debian-next says THREE TIMES that it's on the OFTC network, and yet people still don't read it
1779[20:54:50] <ratrace> point taken :)
1780[20:56:55] <quadrathoch2> hm, is there a Tool on the cli, that does basically ,checkbackport?
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1813[21:28:33] <Wafficus> I upgraded to Testing, but its not letting me update Emacs to 27: replaced-url
1814[21:29:46] <greycat> !debian-next
1815[21:29:47] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1816[21:30:36] <Wafficus> ok thanks
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1818[21:30:45] <greycat> anyway, try "apt full-upgrade"
1819[21:30:49] <Wafficus> ah man, its not on Frenode
1820[21:30:53] <Wafficus> *Freenode...
1821[21:30:57] <Wafficus> yikes
1822[21:31:26] <petn-randall> yikes?
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1825[21:32:13] <CrystalMath> yeah it's a scary world out there, beyond freenode
1826[21:32:50] <Wafficus> its more of an annoyance to have to connect to a different network, register etc.
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1828[21:33:07] <Wafficus> I'll have to figure that one out as this Kiwi instance is primarily freenode based
1829[21:34:07] <CrystalMath> you don't need to register for one visit
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1831[21:34:41] <Wafficus> yeah I tried using the links above (replaced-url
1832[21:35:44] <sney> registration is required for #debian-next. it only takes a few seconds and the nickserv syntax is simple, see '/msg nickserv help register' on your oftc-connected client
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1837[21:38:20] <Wafficus> when I tried the related command "/msg NickServ REGISTER debian-next foo@bar.com", it said I'm already connected as my current username
1838[21:38:50] <Wafficus> CrystalMath that's not true. You need to be invited to that #debian-next channel
1839[21:39:06] <sney> Wafficus: if you're getting 'invite only' you have not connected to oftc, you're still on freenode
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1841[21:40:21] <sney> oftc has a web chat if that helps, replaced-url
1842[21:41:25] <Wafficus> thanks that was very helpful sney
1843[21:41:59] <ratrace> and that nickserv command is totally wrong unless you intend to register with "debian-next" as password
1844[21:43:06] <greycat> sney: you can register on OFTC through nickserv now? When I did it, I had to use a web page.
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1846[21:43:40] <sney> greycat: it's 2 steps, first with nickserv and then verification on the website
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1865[22:01:49] <chakpapa> Does the Debian Security Team manage Testing at least during the Freeze period? Or is it only after it enters stable they take it?
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1867[22:02:41] <petn-randall> chakpapa: Usually at some point during freeze they announce they have everything place and provide security support.
1868[22:02:56] <chakpapa> Ok. Got it.
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1870[22:03:14] <chakpapa> Did bullseye already enter the transitional freeze yet? Was marked for today I suppose
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1872[22:03:52] <greycat> !debian-next
1873[22:03:52] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
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1875[22:04:06] <chakpapa> greycat thanks
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1879[22:07:48] <sney> the wiki and this page replaced-url
1880[22:08:47] <chakpapa> Thanks
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1894[22:21:23] <babaorheum> Hello, i have a problem with dpkg-buildpackage. I refresh all debian/patch and succeed to applies them with "quilt push -a". But when i launch "dpkg-buildpackage", quilt fails to apply the patches and i don't understand why.
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1896[22:22:26] <sney> babaorheum: this is more of a user support channel, you may have better results in #packaging or #debian-mentors on oftc (note, right now you are on freenode)
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1898[22:22:57] <babaorheum> sney: Ok, thank you :-)
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1957[23:29:30] <jhutchins> Pilot threatens to put plane down in Kansas, throw troublemakers off: replaced-url
1958[23:30:15] <abrotman> wrong channel ?
1959[23:30:37] <jhutchins> abrotman: Hey, you're good. Yeah, sorry, meant for the Kansas LUG.
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1962[23:31:15] <abrotman> I only watch IRC for jhutchins posting youtube links ..
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1964[23:34:39] <dvs> Does Kansas have a Debian question??? ;-)
1965[23:36:26] <jhutchins> Often. They come here. Some of answer questions too.
1966[23:36:49] <jhutchins> Just more fun from a trackpad on a couch.
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1985[23:54:47] <jhutchins> Not that laptop trackpads on a desk are much better.
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