80[01:07:32] *** Quits: frostschutz (~frostschu@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
81[01:12:49] *** Quits: Jad (~Nashmi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Benefits I derive from freedom are largely the result of the uses of freedom by others, and mostly of those uses of freedom that I could never avail myself of.)
147[02:54:54] <sney> H-var: most system administration stuff is root-only by default, though you may be able to add your user to a group that allows it. for instance, 'systemd-journal' is the group for being able to read system journalctl stuff as a regular user. there might be one for ufw too.
148[02:55:01] *** interd0me is now known as interdome
176[03:16:39] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
177[03:18:39] <scruloose> In case anyone's curious about the Docker filesystem-access-as-root thing I was freaking out about a day or two ago, I was indeed missing something fundamental: Docker does indeed allow containers to access the filesystem, as root on the host, but only to paths you "explicitly" share with that container.
178[03:18:42] *** Quits: jotaxpe (jotaxpe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
181[03:19:37] <scruloose> I put "explicitly" in scare-quotes because if you use docker-compose, it'll cheerfully accept paths defined in .yml files in your pwd as being "explicitly" shared.
182[03:21:11] <petn-randall> scruloose: docker is not meant to be used as isolation feature security-wise. A normal docker user has not only root on all containers, but also on the host itself.
183[03:21:39] <petn-randall> IIRC root in the container also mean root on the host.
186[03:22:14] <scruloose> So adding a user to the docker group effectively gives that user full root powers (they can trivially get a root shell with host system's root dir mounted read/write), without even sudo's password prompt.
188[03:24:12] <scruloose> New question: is there a way to delete a group on Debian and prevent it getting recreated by later package installs/upgrades?
189[03:24:23] *** Quits: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
190[03:25:34] <petn-randall> yes; no
191[03:25:36] <petn-randall> !xy
192[03:25:36] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
194[03:26:43] <scruloose> I gather that docker does offer *some* meaningful degree of security isolation in terms of controlling what the thing *inside* the container can do on the host, but only to the extent chosen by the user setting up/running the container... yes?
204[03:34:08] <scruloose> From my not-very-deep reading in the last couple of days, I believe there has been some progress on that front in the meantime, but yeah, it sure isn't security-first design.
209[03:40:45] <petn-randall> Their goal is to provide a stable, reproducible environment, that is easily transferable, to run binaries in. Security is not on their list.
210[03:41:41] <pasiz> firewall is firewall, application server is application server...
225[04:05:53] <noisemaker> I just installed the package `webkit2gtk-driver` but compiling some Vala code I get: fatal error: webkit2/webkit2.h: No such file or directory
226[04:06:17] <sney> !headers
227[04:06:17] <dpkg> Trying to compile something from source, and the build script says it can't find a dependency you are sure you have installed? You need header packages, which have the -dev suffix. For instance, if it thinks python3 is missing, install 'python3-dev'. See <build-essential>.
228[04:06:56] <sney> you can also use apt-file to find out what package owns a specific file.
229[04:08:49] <noisemaker> sney: hum, there is no -dev package for me, could be part of the non-free ?
230[04:09:03] <sney> you can also use apt-file to find out what package owns a specific file.
231[04:10:28] <sney> !apt-file
232[04:10:29] <dpkg> apt-file is a utility used to find which package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it is not installed: "aptitude install apt-file && apt-file update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>, <dlocate>.
233[04:12:17] <oxek> can apt-file search for things in buster-backports too though?
234[04:13:01] <sney> it uses the Contents file on the mirror, so as long as the mirror has one, it'll work normally
248[04:49:20] <EdePopede> seems i found out the identity of the bad guy on my buster install. it is a "give me everything you have" install (still DVD1 only, nice), then i logged in to xfce, made my changes, logged out. which left me back with TWENTY-EIGHT processes running as that user.
249[04:50:39] <EdePopede> there was a systemd --user which had a gfvsd subtree and some individual processes. started killing them one by one, when i reached the last one finally everything including the whole systemd army disappeared
260[04:53:30] <EdePopede> the next thing is, returning to the desktop didn't bring back the panel. but i'll look for this one later. for now i'll see if i can reproduce this one.
261[04:54:46] <EdePopede> and the keypad wasn't working at all in mc's subshell on tty. looked into the settings dialogs, even checked the keypad keys in the one, didn't save, but when i returned they were there. another mystery.
268[05:06:06] <EdePopede> gnome, seriously. the project channel is on irc.gnome.org which i have no idea if that's freenode or not, if it is, there's only 2 people sitting there and it doesn't even have a topic. then i wanted to check their hp for that info, only the gnome logo top left corner only points to the discourse start page. discourse, which is nothing but phpbb in shiny modern colors.
269[05:06:56] *** Quits: xompax (uid200197@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
270[05:07:17] <EdePopede> they have a really poor idea of usability and interface design for folks who have the idea of building the linux desktop of the future.
279[05:14:51] <EdePopede> kline\0: yep, gimpnet. i remember i've been there years ago. but that's info that really could be given when they tell people to connect to irc://whatever since using different domains on the same network isn't that uncommon.
280[05:14:51] <kline\0> gnome sucks for a lot of reasons but i dont think this is one of them
282[05:17:44] <EdePopede> back then i was refused to connect to the network. took me some time to find out that i was already on it using my default nick. there was no hint at all that it was that one. yes, this sucks if you're trying to reach someone helping you out of a problem and all you get is "you stay out."
441[09:43:15] <AimHere> Stealth upgrade decided to upgrade a library to a shiny new version while I was actually using it. One minute my application works, next minute it's broken
470[10:02:01] <oxek> I'm just following reverse dependencies, where I see that unattended-upgrades is recommended by python3-software-properties, which is a dependency of software-properties-common/software-properties-kde/software-properties-gtk
472[10:02:36] <oxek> and those packages are unlikely to be installed outside of initial installation, and very unlikely to be installed manually by the user
473[10:03:07] <AimHere> Yeah, the dpkg log shows it being installed at about the same time as a bunch of curl-related packages + python3-software-properties + apt-transport-https and related stuff
474[10:03:19] <oxek> I know for a fact that unattended-upgrades does not get installed on a minimal installation without a desktop environment, and not as part of xfce either
475[10:03:45] <oxek> apt-transport-https? What debian version are you on? That package should no longer exist.
476[10:03:51] <AimHere> sid
477[10:04:07] <AimHere> This update happened in November
478[10:04:14] <AimHere> I haven't noticed until now!
479[10:04:23] <oxek> yeah, sid is not supported in this channel, and all sorts of crazy things can happen in sid
480[10:04:28] <oxek> !debian-next
481[10:04:28] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
482[10:04:42] <AimHere> I'm not asking for support
483[10:04:45] <AimHere> Just venting
484[10:05:11] <oxek> probably no point venting about sid, it might be configured to use unattended-upgrades so that you always get upgrades asap
485[10:05:36] <oxek> and "One minute my application works, next minute it's broken" is behavior I'd expect on sid
487[10:06:17] <AimHere> My proximate problem is that this rotten library is broke, and not only is it so new nobody's filed a bug report, I'm not qualified to file one. It's a library called by a library called by an app I'm using and I don't have a clue what the hell it even is
488[10:06:40] *** Quits: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
489[10:07:00] <oxek> last week gnutls library broke on sid, breaking everything. That's typical behavior of sid.
496[10:09:11] <AimHere> Yeah, I know. My main reason for using sid was that a) Ubuntu wouldn't install when I tried and b) stable's software was out of date. And sid isn't terrible, most of the time
505[10:11:48] <oxek> all I'm saying is I definitely would not expect stable behavior (stable = not changing at random times, as happened to you) from non-stable versions of debian.
506[10:13:14] <oxek> Lope: 'ip route show'
507[10:13:20] <AimHere> Oh yeah, I know about sid, and unstable. It's just that until now 'unstable' has meant a bit more stable than 'app suddenly stops working between successive invocations'
508[10:13:25] <Lope> oxek, that's not ipv6??
509[10:13:49] <Lope> nevermind: ip -6 route show
510[10:14:02] <oxek> Lope: yeah, that one
511[10:14:31] <oxek> AimHere: on debian, "stable" does not mean "does not crash" it means "does not change"
512[10:14:51] <oxek> hence "unstable" means "changes all the time"
513[10:14:57] <oxek> which is the behavior you observed
514[10:15:42] <AimHere> Yeah. There's still a big difference between 'changes, sometimes for the worse, when you ask to upgrade' and 'changes in the middle of the night for no obvious reasons'
515[10:16:01] <AimHere> The latter is new to me!
516[10:16:43] <oxek> it's a fair point that debian does a poor job of managing people's expectations.
519[10:19:05] <AimHere> Yeah, but I've been using sid for at least 15 years. I thought I had reasonable expectations. I'm not fazed by upgrading into unbootability or the like
522[10:20:20] <carloratm> novice question here, in firefox I see some random font without antialiasing, what could cause the problem? replaced-url
523[10:20:36] <carloratm> Just installed Debian btw
524[10:20:49] <oxek> yeah and I would not be surprised if sid woke me up at 3am, spit on me and call me a dirty girl, and right after that start crying and say sorry. It really is unstable.
525[10:21:45] <oxek> carloratm: I'm so sorry if this is your first impression of #debian
656[11:40:17] <quadrathoch2> rue_mohr if you have a xeon from 20 years ago, no it's not an amd64 version
657[11:40:20] <quadrathoch2> but otherwise yes
658[11:40:27] <Lope> tomreyn, `dd if=/dev/md127 of=/dev/null bs=1M` completes without error.
659[11:40:38] <rue_mohr> and it shouldnt be called i386 if an i386 cant boot it (it cant, you guys put instructions in that kernel that are not 386)
660[11:40:49] <azeem> rue_mohr: are you trolling?
661[11:41:06] <rue_mohr> no I'm trying to install debian on the cool new dell server I was just given
662[11:41:17] <azeem> did you try a usb stick?
663[11:41:19] <rue_mohr> 24G of ram :)
664[11:41:28] <azeem> that doesn't sound like a new server
665[11:41:34] <azeem> unless you meant 24T
666[11:41:34] <rue_mohr> I do not think it can boot from a stick
667[11:41:35] <tomreyn> Lope: file -s /dev/md127
668[11:41:41] <quadrathoch2> rue_mohr so make sure that the downloaded amd64 iso is fine per SHA512SUM, and verify that the way you burn the disk is also good
669[11:41:41] <rue_mohr> its only option seems to be cdrom
670[11:41:48] <rue_mohr> stupid thing doesn't even have pxe
671[11:42:04] <quadrathoch2> so sounds like a very old system
672[11:42:08] <quadrathoch2> so maybe it's not amd64
673[11:42:23] <quadrathoch2> rue_mohr could you verify which cpus you got in that device? (or which dell server)
674[11:42:40] <rue_mohr> Dell poweredge T610
675[11:42:46] <rue_mohr> anyone know?
676[11:43:55] <Lope> tomreyn, unfortunately I didn't include file in my initramfs
677[11:44:11] <azeem> looks like it's from 2012
678[11:44:15] <azeem> but should be amd64
679[11:44:19] <Lope> tomreyn, I'll try chroot
680[11:44:24] <tomreyn> Lope: lsblk?
681[11:44:34] <quadrathoch2> rue_mohr so, as the cpu does have amd64 instructions, it's still on your end, why the disc doesn't boot
682[11:44:34] <tomreyn> i mean blkid
683[11:44:45] <Lope> tomreyn, `dd if=/dev/md127 of=/dev/null bs=1M` completes without error.
684[11:44:48] <azeem> rue_mohr: that's the error you get when trying to boot that?
685[11:44:58] <Lope> tomreyn, sorry, bad clipboard.
686[11:45:01] <Lope> tomreyn, /dev/md127: block special (9/127)
687[11:45:07] <Lope> that's the output of file
688[11:45:08] <rue_mohr> no bootable disk found
689[11:45:17] <rue_mohr> press F1 to retry
690[11:45:18] <rue_mohr> :)
691[11:45:37] <quadrathoch2> rue_mohr sounds like the cd was burned wrong
701[11:46:54] <muffindrake> Heyas. I have a fresh debian sid, and have run into a problem with the current obs-studio package. The UI appears corrupted, with text and elements not rendering correctly.
702[11:47:00] <rue_mohr> I'm not using up the last writable cd's in the world am I?
703[11:47:12] <rue_mohr> hmm
704[11:47:33] <quadrathoch2> honestly, rue_mohr, it's really weird, that that server can't boot off of usb :/
708[11:48:04] <tomreyn> Lope: hmm, this looks much bettzer, maybe the 'file' command just didnt have a proper magic bytes DB at hand.
709[11:48:14] <jmcnaught> Lope: are you trying to put your ESP on an mdadm array?
710[11:48:31] <rue_mohr> its too bad it cant do pxe, I'm set up!
711[11:48:31] <Lope> jmcnaught, EFI on mdadm raid 1
712[11:48:38] <Lope> jmcnaught, is that a no go?
713[11:48:43] <tomreyn> that makes not much sense
714[11:48:55] <jmcnaught> Lope: I do not see why that would work.
715[11:49:07] <Lope> Well, it's just a fat filesystem on mdadm
716[11:49:45] <Lope> so should I do the EFI naked, no mdadm?
717[11:49:58] <Lope> I'm trying to set it up so that either SSD can fail, and it'll boot.
718[11:50:15] <jmcnaught> I would not expect the computer's firmware to be able to understand an mdadm array.
719[11:50:17] <rue_mohr> I'll try the 386 image,
720[11:50:18] <tomreyn> well, it can work, metadata resides at the end of the device, so firmware might just see the vfat file system. but it's a recipe for breaking things, especially if you let the firmware write to it.
758[12:17:55] <sfx2496> Does anyone known how to spoof custom/enhanced build of ffmpeg in the linux(Debian/Mint20)package manager, so it won't install the default compiled ffmpeg when other programs want to install ffmpeg as req. dependency?
759[12:18:50] <tomreyn> there is no "linux(Debian/Mint20)package manager"
760[12:19:13] <sfx2496> I just tried to make a deb package, it installed, but does not show up as installed in the package manager (synaptic show gray i icon before it, and the software manager of Mint does not show it as proper installed either)
775[12:37:39] <shtrb> sfx2496, after building the deb file , did you run dpkg -i filename.deb ?
776[12:37:43] <noisemaker> When I install some packages in one machine, can I make that machine a local mirror for other debian machines but only with the packages installed ?
777[12:37:50] <shtrb> Lope, sorry I was out
778[12:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1200
779[12:39:23] <shtrb> Lope, are you sure that you are booted in an EFI enabled mode ? [ -d /sys/firmware/efi ] && echo uefi || echo oldschool
782[12:44:06] <deq2496> shtrb: I just did, makes no difference for the installation state, is it because of conflict with default package?(I named it the same with same version in "contol" file)
784[12:45:37] <shtrb> give us please the output of dpkg -i yourpackaname.deb , also you should have a higher version than the regular one so your version would not be overwritten
817[13:02:03] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
876[14:26:33] *** Quits: lesless (~lessless@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
877[14:30:54] <ratrace> So I'm reading the Debian New Maintainer's Guide, cover to cover. I wonder, why does it say the package "should not" be a daemon? Who is supposed to pacakge up daemons then?
880[14:35:37] <themill> Someone who is not a new maintainer.
881[14:37:28] <themill> It's just substantially harder and adding all that is required to the new maintainer guide would unnecessarily complicate the guide. The guide is about making a simple package.
882[14:38:24] <themill> (the very next sentence even says as much)
893[14:55:00] <shtrb> new mainter guide is actually written very good, even outsiders (like me ) found it easy to package and almost no lintian warnings , getting stuff into debian later might be a problem
911[15:15:40] <gorillapatch> Hello everyone, I am experiencing strange things with my Samba installation on Debian Buster. I have added a usershare and even if I login with another username, I cannot access and see this in my logfile "session closed for user nobody"
948[16:19:55] <lf94> Hey, I'm trying to install debian on a HP EliteDesk 800. What I've done is dd the iso onto an external SSD, but I cannot boot from it.
949[16:20:17] <lf94> ...I'm out of ideas. I've gone into bios and turned off secure boot, enabled legacy boot, tried a combination of things.
950[16:20:34] <dvs> lf94: Do you intend to install Debian on that same SSD?
951[16:20:41] <lf94> yeah
952[16:20:47] <dvs> that won't work.
953[16:20:50] <robobox> that doesn't work
954[16:20:56] <lf94> yeah, just realizing as you say it
955[16:20:59] <lf94> :D
956[16:21:08] <robobox> try a USB drive
957[16:21:15] <lf94> I've also tried dd'ing my current install
971[16:26:35] <ratrace> if not, one should be very careful when working with both copies on the same system. if yes, one should be careful to update the clone's fstab and other configs for the new UUIDs, if they were used.
972[16:26:38] <lf94> So for example, when I plug it into my laptop (which I'm talking to you with), it appears as /dev/sda
973[16:27:01] <lf94> So technically it's been seen a usb drive.
1033[16:38:57] <Mister00X> but I meant the original iso, did you comared it against a hash
1034[16:39:03] <lf94> ahhh
1035[16:39:08] <lf94> no, lemme do it
1036[16:39:15] <ratrace> should be possible to md5sum the ISO and then md5sum from the USB disk, from byte 0 to exactly the number of bytes the ISO is
1037[16:39:18] <gorillapatch> pasiz: Sounds strange, as my client is presented a login dialog
1038[16:39:37] <jhutchins> lf94: The purpos of secure boot is to prevent you from installing linux, so you want that disabled. Any quick/fast boot feature should also be disabled.
1039[16:40:02] <lf94> jhutchins: that's what I thought too, and I"m just trying anything at this point.
1166[18:09:27] <cole_phelps> i have a problem with python3_numpy can someone help me?
1167[18:09:46] <sney> !anyone
1168[18:09:47] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
1174[18:10:41] <Mister00X> alexrelis[m]: yes apt-listchanges I think
1175[18:11:39] <alexrelis[m]> Mister00X: `apt-listchanges` doesn't have a changelog for every package, so I'm guessing it's only for some packages then right?
1186[18:15:52] <cole_phelps> s me an error of input i try to apt-get upgrade on kali and python3_numpy is not installing because of\some input/output error which i think causes a dependency problem and causes the packages to not upgrade i've been stuck w/ it for two weeks now
1188[18:16:48] <alexrelis[m]> shtrb: This is epic! You learn something new every day. Thanks guys!
1189[18:16:48] <sney> why do kali noobs all think #debian will support them
1190[18:16:50] <ratrace> cole_phelps: nothing we can help with in #debian, tho.
1191[18:16:55] <sney> !kali-magic
1192[18:16:56] <dpkg> Kali Linux is just an operating system. It does not magically turn you into a hacker. It is also offtopic in #debian. Please fulfill your fantasies in #kali-linux on chat.freenode.net. See also <based on debian> and <they don't know>.
1193[18:16:58] <cole_phelps> fuck you
1194[18:17:12] <azeem> cole_phelps: please keep it on topic
1195[18:17:14] <cole_phelps> at least answer with something usefull
1196[18:17:15] <alexrelis[m]> cole_phelps: Don't be mean
1197[18:17:34] <ratrace> !tell cole_phelps about kali
1198[18:17:38] <shtrb> sney, because kali is in fact a rebardning of unstable
1199[18:17:43] <alexrelis[m]> You can ask your question in the #kali-linux chat.
1213[18:21:40] <sney> shtrb: it's not a rebrand, it's a derivative like all of the other derivatives. Mint isn't a rebrand, neither is parrot, mxlinux, etc. And Kali's website has a *lot* of documentation on it including links to community support.
1217[18:23:42] <shtrb> sney, kali is advertised^(tm) as a pure bland of debian, while in fact there are some differences. Mint on the other hand is not a pure bland
1219[18:24:14] *** Quits: Makerblaker (~Makerblak@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1220[18:24:45] <azeem> (it's blend)
1221[18:25:16] <sney> there is no mention of that on replaced-url
1222[18:25:38] <EdePopede> that's how it *looks* like > replaced-url
1223[18:25:52] <shtrb> azeem, thanks for the correction
1224[18:26:18] <EdePopede> found it 2 days ago. and btw i'd really like to have this kind of dependency graphs instead just dot ;)
1225[18:26:18] <cole_phelps> back from the kali chan...nobody answered
1226[18:26:24] <sney> !they don't know
1227[18:26:24] <dpkg> We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us.
1228[18:27:19] <shtrb> sney, thanks , perhas I got the wrong impression all toghther , I sure remembering such a claim somewhere , thank you for correcting me
1229[18:27:37] <azeem> huh, so kali linux is a knoppix fork?
1230[18:27:40] <sney> regardless, #debian has never supported those pentesting distros and we aren't about to start now
1231[18:27:49] <azeem> I guess they rebased it since
1235[18:28:41] <EdePopede> azeem: would be nice if distrowatch was up-to-date and they'd autocreate such graphs :)
1236[18:28:43] <sney> one of kali's core developers is a debian developer, he also co-authored the debian administrator's handbook. the connection is there. and they *could* have made a blend, but they didn't.
1237[18:28:59] <sney> I suspect bundling non-DFSG stuff is part of that.
1238[18:28:59] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Quit: Je m'en vais ...)
1254[18:36:23] <shtrb> ratrace, they didn't do anything yet, but if they put their code where their words are we should expect mozilla products, I would expect them to enable kinds of censership and to prevent some people from using their tools (which would be a DFSG problem )
1255[18:36:34] <EdePopede> wouldn't this be just the newsstream on the new tabs?
1256[18:36:57] <ratrace> shtrb: that's a very vague and nonspecific and speculative super-maybe-someday-something-something :)
1257[18:37:03] <shtrb> EdePopede, first they need to commit, and push, now that is just too vauge
1258[18:37:07] <EdePopede> or do you expect sth like apple/google/.... did these days?
1259[18:37:08] <azeem> yeah, can we get back to topic
1430[21:44:34] <gholinbrown> a clock shouldn't need that kind of memory. it's also questionable why the non-virtual memory is 32mb for a clock makes no sense either. it's a clock.
1431[21:45:56] <gholinbrown> but let's focus on the 300+MB. as virtual memory my understanding is that's how much got DMA'd?
1432[21:46:37] <AimHere> Are you taking into account that most memory-reading tools in Linux count every shared library as part of the memory total, even if they're used by something else?
1433[21:47:35] *** Quits: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1434[21:47:39] <gholinbrown> shared memory says 25 MB. that accounts for the non-virtual memory i guess. but not the virtual
1446[21:56:53] <ratrace> gholinbrown: so that's somethign specific to the MATE desktop? and how are you measuring that "applet's" specific memory usage?
1475[22:04:29] <ratrace> gholinbrown: yeah it's pretty much all memory, including shared libs
1476[22:04:57] <gholinbrown> is it literally using that memory?
1477[22:05:06] <ratrace> so that's not memory exclusive to it. large desktop environments use tons of libs that interlink and you only have to link with one of them to get the whole tree into your virtual memory
1478[22:06:56] <gholinbrown> it's giving me totals like these are statically linked
1479[22:07:31] <shtrb> gholinbrown, lot's and lot's of fancy libs to do fancy animations ICU is used for internationalization (globalization) , ibexpat is travel set , libXext is actually X related , libpng you get what it does
1480[22:07:32] <ratrace> wait until you learn about electron apps carrying an entire copy of chromium.... each :)
1481[22:07:46] <EdePopede> what are these anon entries at the end? in my case 2 of them are at 65M and some at 8M which is a big part already of the 300 total.
1482[22:08:23] <shtrb> EdePopede, this could be a mmapped file or true malloc
1483[22:08:30] <ratrace> EdePopede: memory without a file backing it
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1494[22:14:55] <gholinbrown> why would crypto be linked
1495[22:15:54] <shtrb> EdePopede, If he has some app or config that need Thai , or if the applet support the Thai language it would be understanble to have it
1496[22:16:28] <EdePopede> ,info ibus-libthai
1497[22:16:31] <judd> Package ibus-libthai (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Thai input method engine for IBus based on LibThai. Version: 0.1.4-4; Size: 19.2k; Installed: 75k; Homepage: replaced-url
1498[22:16:39] <sney> sometimes thai gets pulled in with multi-language font support for emoji purposes
1499[22:16:55] <EdePopede> i had ibus installed, removed it since. didn't check further. who knows.
1500[22:17:03] <EdePopede> oh. ah.
1501[22:17:32] <sney> pango has some thai dependencies as well, at least here on bullseye
1502[22:17:57] <EdePopede> yep, i've seen pango. one of the names i recognized at least.
1508[22:22:29] <gholinbrown> thank goodness. so it's just an implied minimum of need libraries (once) but also the app.
1509[22:22:56] <freem> so basically, kernel only have one copy of each in memory, and only duplicates the data sections (I think) when they are writen into
1510[22:24:43] <shtrb> freem, and then we have guix
1511[22:24:59] <freem> well... yeah
1512[22:25:12] <shtrb> I wonder if we will have guix in debian
1513[22:25:47] <shtrb> I'm talking about the multi versioning option for packages
1514[22:26:05] <freem> I wonder how hard it would be to write a dpkg that would install things into $HOME instead of $ROOTFS
1515[22:26:25] <shtrb> not that it would be fun to have packages written in scheme
1516[22:26:54] <freem> I know guix/fooix/whateveuix offers other guarantees, ofc, but this clearly seems their main sell point
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1525[22:33:32] <jhutchins> alexrelis[m]: The problem is that we rely on the packagers and developers - which are often different teams to include proper changelogs, and a lot of times they don't.
1526[22:34:07] <shtrb> jhutchins, apt-get changelog give some data (*) not the best one but some
1527[22:34:59] <freem> each time I looked at this, I had only packaging changes, I think
1528[22:35:38] <shtrb> well yes, that's the idea
1529[22:35:55] <shtrb> bugfixes, solutions , new options etc
1530[22:36:38] <freem> well, this is my point, actually. Only _packaging_ changes. Like, "bump version", "new maintainer", etc
1532[22:37:20] <freem> but I admit I don't look at it often, maybe I didn't paid enough attention, especially since debian normally does not add new features while in stable
1533[22:38:14] <shtrb> So what kind of a changelog would you expect to have ? the actual software changelog ?
1534[22:39:04] <jmcnaught> A package's /usr/share/doc/PACKAGE/ directory will have a changelog.Debian.gz (packaging changes) and a changelog.gz from upstream.
1535[22:39:06] <freem> yes, but I presume it's simply in /usr/share/doc/$package when it exists?
1536[22:39:28] <freem> but that imply installing/upgrading before reading it
1538[22:39:52] <black_13> can packages be installed with debug symbols
1539[22:40:02] <sney> !dbgsym
1540[22:40:03] <dpkg> Packages that end in '*-dbgsym' contain the symbols required for debugging executables and libraries. The dbgsym packages are automatically generated packages that are in a separate archive; add a line like "deb replaced-url
1541[22:40:10] <shtrb> black_13, you have special packages for that called dbgsym ones
1562[22:49:22] <unixbsd> With Libreoffice or similar for ODT document (writer/opensource doc), how to export FONTs into the exported PDF document? there is no infos about that.
1563[22:50:19] <sney> some "no infos" from the first google result: replaced-url
1604[23:12:03] <EdePopede> maybe one of them is down
1605[23:12:09] <tomreyn> security.debian.org resolves to 12 ipv5/6 addresses
1606[23:12:19] <tomreyn> *ipv4/6 :)
1607[23:13:03] <sney> if you want to use a mirror that is *a* mirror instead of a cdn, try ftp.(country code).debian.org, or see the 'secondary' entries at replaced-url
1608[23:15:05] <tomreyn> seanthegeek is ignoring us anyway, though.
1609[23:15:38] <unixbsd> how to send to 30 persons with thunderbird an email? We need to add it one after one into the 30 fields: TO ???
1623[23:20:12] <ratrace> had to termporarily block clients email accounts because the jokers would put hundreds of addresses into a single TO field .....
1624[23:20:49] <ratrace> (during xmass, because all the greetings and nonsense)
1627[23:23:07] <EdePopede> no way to do such a thing with some addon at least? thunderbird is gui, so it should be normal workflow to open a dialog with a list and just click the names
1655[23:33:08] <sney> I've seen the grub step fail on install a few times over the years, though it usually has the courtesy to display a big error message about it. maybe it was accidentally installed to the wrong volume.
1656[23:33:54] <dvs> maybe the MBR version was installed instead of EFI?
1657[23:34:37] <ddsys> he installed to the EFI partition
1658[23:35:06] <dvs> but did he use the EFI install option?
1659[23:35:20] <ddsys> hmm
1660[23:35:25] <ddsys> not sure
1661[23:35:31] <frazzydee> dvs: I remember checking for that, and thought it was the EFI version. Where would that option be?
1662[23:36:01] <dvs> frazzydee: right at the beginning with the menu that selects the different install opptions
1677[23:44:16] <ddsys> frazzydee: is dual-booting windows. It already had an EFI partition. doesnt an EFI partion mean its in uefi mode and the installer should pick up on that?
1678[23:44:59] <ddsys> dvs ^ ?
1679[23:45:12] <sponix> ddsys: only if it is continued to be booted that way. If you are EFI in Windows, and don't choose EFI boot in Linux, it will just do Legacy and not see the Windows (and Grub will not either)
1682[23:46:14] <dvs> ddsys: No, it depends on how the USB installer was booted. On my machine if I have an install ISO, I have two boot options for it: one with just the name and another with "UEFI:" in front of the name.
1683[23:46:18] <sponix> These messes are hard to straighten out
1684[23:47:09] <frazzydee> I recreated the install media and booted with it. it shows "UEFI installer menu"
1685[23:47:47] <ddsys> dvs: i could swear my installer usb only shows uefi if my disk is gpt
1688[23:48:07] <frazzydee> I think I checked to make sure it was in UEFI mode and not BIOS mode previously. I've been trying to get this working for a few days and have been on this channel before, someone else asked me to check that
1689[23:48:19] <frazzydee> Yes, there isn't a choice of BIOS or UEFI mode for me either
1690[23:48:37] <frazzydee> Anyways I'm glad it works now, and if someone else has the same issue they can try refind also
1691[23:49:03] <sponix> frazzydee: you got it working ?
1692[23:49:22] <frazzydee> sponix: Yes! You were the someone else haha ;)
1693[23:49:25] <dvs> ddsys: it totally depends on how you boot the USB installer. It will show either BIOS or UEFI, but not both.
1694[23:49:35] <sponix> frazzydee: I have memory loss :(