this is #debianan IRC-Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0[00:00:36] <sney> my plex vm has pci passthrough and does all of its video encoding on a gtx 650, which isn't new at all by a long shot. the 1050 is almost certainly way more powerful
1[00:01:03] <zykotick9> MUCH more powerful ;)
2[00:02:02] <jhutchins> Yeah, my nephew was blown away when I told him that's what I got.
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4[00:02:59] <zykotick9> sney: pci passthrough for video encoding <- that's cool.
5[00:03:05] <jhutchins> So it's new enough that it can handle PlaneShift, but I had learned PS pretty well before they upgraded past my old card, and I found I had no interest in re-learning all of it.
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7[00:04:12] <sney> yup, hardware encoding for the win. now the only weak point in my home theatre is the horrible little zotac pc that actually talks to the display
20[00:09:10] <sney> yeah there are various container-ish ways to run debian within chromeos
21[00:10:01] <karlpinc> I figured it wasn't worth maintaining another box.
22[00:10:11] <sney> my mini pc runs windows, because it predictably locks up after about an hour of running a display in linux. but it works about 90% otherwise, so I'm gonna keep it until I move
23[00:11:48] *** Quits: Gm4n (~Gm4n@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
25[00:14:07] <jhutchins> I have chromecast built in to my Google Fiber TV box, and it can be pretty cool to cast PC video to a 50" screen. Unfortunately, the Google box keeps re-negotiating the wifi.
26[00:14:32] <jhutchins> (I should probably try a newer kernel.)
28[00:15:11] <sney> STBs are pretty bad about wifi in general. If you can hardwire it, do. my chromecast experiences improved massively when I got the optional gigabit adapter.
30[00:16:36] <zykotick9> sney: "locks up.. display in linux." Since starting to use nVidia's graphics cards on FreeBSD, that has been an issue that has plagued me. If I don't boot backport's kernel and just use debian's stable it seems to happen the least for me. I didn't have this issue when I was running 100% intel graphics, but I also couldn't game.
32[00:17:20] <sney> this one is intel, I suspect it just has a firmware bug
33[00:17:23] <bernalex> hi. any particular reasons I wouldn't run debian on my macbook pro 2013 retina?
34[00:18:14] <sney> bernalex: older laptops are usually pretty easy to get working, see here for anything that might be specific to your machine replaced-url
35[00:18:15] <zykotick9> for me intel and xorg was what I'd call "very close to rock stable" for my uses.
37[00:18:47] <sney> bernalex: I will note that the b43 controllers that apple loves to use for wifi can be pretty annoying to get working in debian. but once it works it's fine.
38[00:18:48] <bernalex> great. I've grown too old and lazy to use gentoo (more accurately: I don't use my computer often enough to be bothered with customising and fixing stuff), so now I just want to use debian like all the old people did back when I installed gentoo 15 years ago...
40[00:19:21] <bernalex> sney: uh-oh. "annoying" how? in gentoo it was basically "emerge broadcom-sta" and add the module to the kernel, and voila.
41[00:20:02] <sney> bernalex: I wrote that before knowing you were already using linux on it. it's mostly "determine which model it is, chase down various non-free rabbitholes, maybe build a thing or install a firmware blob".. I'm sure you'll manage.
48[00:21:48] <bernalex> to the non-free firmware, the WiFi adapter will be detected during installation, so you'll be able to download all additional packages not included in the netinst image.
49[00:22:51] <sney> using that installer image is generally a good call on any hardware that might require non-free firmware, especially for networking or video. so usually laptops from any vendor.
50[00:23:51] <sney> but you said you have a macbook from 2013, and this article covers a newer model. I don't know macbooks well enough to say for sure but I suspect they are not identical
51[00:24:51] <bernalex> I guess I'll have to see tomorrow whether this is more or less work than updating the gentoo install
52[00:25:17] <sney> I will say that once you have the wifi driver working, there's less work than a typical gentoo install
58[00:29:48] <bernalex> «Some troubles with hibernate and suspend» sounds like a dealbreaker... or not. hard to tell with the ambiguity of the comment.
59[00:29:55] <sney> if you install from DVD-1, you'll have a more complete system out of the box without a network connection. replaced-url
60[00:30:38] * karlpinc always likes the installer with non-free firmware included
61[00:30:39] <sney> note that the jessie section refers to kernel 3.16. if you had normal hibernate/suspend on gentoo with a modern kernel, that will be the case in debian too
62[00:30:54] <bernalex> I had normal suspend with older kernels on gentoo too
63[00:31:18] <bernalex> i.e. I had normal suspend on gentoo stable when the laptop came out, which would be a very old kernel indeed.
66[00:32:25] *** Quits: yans (~yans@replaced-ip) (Quit: chaos is the only true answer)
67[00:33:38] <zykotick9> bernalex: have you considered the stable/testing debian branchs? As a Gentoo refugee you might find testing's versions of things a little bit less of a culture shock? YMMV
68[00:33:42] <bernalex> sney: right so loading debian-10.7.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso onto a USB stick should be fine. is the installer user-friendly/easy when it comes to setting up booting? on gentoo atm I boot from efi straight into linux without a bootloader.
70[00:34:11] <bernalex> zykotick9: I run gentoo stable and would run debian stable. the reason I'm switching is to get less of a hassle updating stuff.
73[00:34:25] <sney> bernalex: yes, all debian installer isos are hybrid images, write directly to flash. and the installer is straightforward, you will find it very user friendly
75[00:34:59] <bernalex> sney: sure, but I mean specifically wrt to efi stuff? I guess that's all pretty commonplace nowadays, but it certainly wasn't back in 2013, and it was quite the hassle to get gentoo booting without a bootloader.
76[00:35:54] <sney> yes, modern debian has grub-efi which behaves fine on any standard efi hardware from the last decade.
77[00:36:09] <sney> if you specifically want to not use grub, then you'll have to figure that out post-install
78[00:36:28] <bernalex> all right. so how do I get wifi working without an internet connection?
79[00:36:47] <doc|work> bernalex, does the computer have an eth port?
80[00:36:50] <bernalex> no
81[00:37:33] <bernalex> I have a usb ethernet thing, but nobody here (including myself) has ethernet. I'd have to go to work to get a hold of ethernet. but I can't do that because of corona.
82[00:37:35] <sney> put the broadcom-sta-dkms package on a thumb drive, boot into your new debian system, install that package and linux-headers-amd64. the module will build, then you reboot
88[00:39:23] <bernalex> isn't there an install image where it is available from the get go?
89[00:39:40] <sney> karlpinc: please pay attention, the b43 model in this laptop is *not* supported via a firmware blob. it needs an out of tree module.
90[00:39:53] <karlpinc> sney: Sorry, not paying attention.
91[00:40:26] <sney> bernalex: for this adapter unfortunately no. thank broadcom for that. most wifi controllers are supported by the firmware image karlpinc just linked
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104[00:42:25] <bernalex> doc|work: I don't want to use anything that hasn't been around at least 20 years. other than that I'm not all that particular. I thought about debian because I like it.
105[00:42:29] <sney> for systems that can't netinstall, the smoothest option is to install from dvd1 and then install the network driver afterwards. it's quick, other than the file copy it'll take less time than asking about it on irc
106[00:42:37] <bernalex> and because it's hugely popular, so easy to get help.
107[00:42:55] <doc|work> bernalex, sure, but things like ubuntu based off of debian really aren't far off that
109[00:43:22] <bernalex> ubuntu has an unimpressive track record when it comes to e.g. privacy.
110[00:43:36] <doc|work> was just example
111[00:43:40] <doc|work> *an example
112[00:44:36] <doc|work> I use xubuntu for my desktops, community managed
113[00:45:35] <sney> derivatives are often more willing to include out-of-tree drivers or stuff with iffy licenses, which can make the initial install a little easier, but then you're trusting your computer to that same attitude.
114[00:45:49] <doc|work> sounds like that's what he needs
115[00:46:09] <sney> except it takes 5 minutes to install the broadcom driver
116[00:46:21] <doc|work> ... if you have an internet connection
117[00:46:35] <bernalex> what's the status with the whole M1 CPU and Linux?
118[00:46:36] <sney> or a flash drive
119[00:47:03] <doc|work> bernalex, you're trying to be principled but now considering an apple machine? :)
122[00:48:19] <bernalex> I'm not trying to be principled, and we've been talking about an apple machine all along. sorry if I'm the one to inform you, but industrialism isn't pretty. there is no ethical computer.
123[00:48:45] <doc|work> no way, really?
124[00:48:51] <n4dir> i'd say the DVD approach mentioned by sney is the way to go
125[00:49:08] <bernalex> n4dir: yeah it sounds like the sanest solution
126[00:49:31] <bernalex> well, either that, or just updating gentoo
127[00:49:33] <sney> (it looks like there's some very early linux hacking on the M1 but nothing substantial yet)
128[00:50:13] <bernalex> IC
129[00:50:20] <n4dir> ah, gentoo is installed.
130[00:50:43] <n4dir> many optins, the most easy one is the one mentioned, imho.
131[00:50:47] <bernalex> n4dir: yeah I'm just trying to figure out whether installing debian is a small enough headache to pay off early on
132[00:51:12] <n4dir> yes, i see. i joined the discussion late
133[00:51:51] <bernalex> I've downloaded the img, so I'll have to see how I'm feeling about it tomorrow. thanks for the help all. sney in particular.
134[00:51:52] <n4dir> dual boot might be another option. Saves the time spend on thinkging wether it's worth it
163[01:14:51] <jaggz> my user has unlimited (ulimit) memory and data seg size. but this isn't in /etc/security/limits* files. any clue where else this can be set?
201[02:05:37] *** Quits: shellclear (~shellclea@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
202[02:09:03] <barg> there's a package I can't install, when I try apt-install php-gettext, I get "E: Unable to locate package php-gettext" How do I find out what repo it is in? I tried "add-apt-repository universe" but still it can't install php-gettext and gives that error.
213[02:24:07] <barg> i have quite a few listed there replaced-url
214[02:25:04] <dvs> !ubuntu
215[02:25:05] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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221[02:30:51] <frazzydee> Hi, I'm trying to install debian buster + windows 8 dual booting. I've read the installation guide and disabled the windows fast boot feature as instructed, but I cannot boot into my debian install. The Debian installer did make some changes to the BIOS as the boot options have changed, but grub is not listed as a boot option. Any ideas on what I should be doing to get this working?
317[03:56:46] <frazzydee> ddsys: Thank you so much for your suggestion, unfortunately still doesn't seem to work- I still don't see debian as a boot option in my bios and debian remains unbootable :(
336[04:08:23] <frazzydee> ddsys: I am in the "adad new boot option" menu, and the "path for boot option" has a text box field instructing me to "Enter the path to the boot option in the format fsx:\path\filename.efi"
340[04:11:20] <frazzydee> ddsys: Thank you. I put that in, and disabled all other boot options. It took me back to the BIOS page so guess it didn't work
341[04:11:53] <ddsys> is debian now in the boot menu?
342[04:12:52] <frazzydee> ddsys: well it was in the list of boot options in the bios, but that's only because I specified the name "debian".
343[04:12:55] <frazzydee> There is no boot menu.
344[04:13:44] <frazzydee> There is no boot menu, it takes me straight to the BIOS now. I think it could not find the path specified so nothing to boot into.
345[04:13:56] <ddsys> its hard because i cant see what your seeing
346[04:14:12] <ddsys> maybe try specifying the again
513[06:20:53] <petn-randall> l0rd_hex: I believe you can use expert mode to pick lilo instead, or just use debootstrap to install whatever you want.
514[06:21:22] <petn-randall> l0rd_hex: "giving you diareah [sic]" isn't a good problem description, though.
515[06:21:33] <l0rd_hex> oh, sorry, diarreah
516[06:22:02] <l0rd_hex> I'll read up on debootstrap though, that's an automated install function?
517[06:22:07] <petn-randall> You got one more try.
518[06:22:53] <l0rd_hex> diarrhoea? I'm not really Britis
519[06:22:54] <l0rd_hex> h
520[06:23:23] <petn-randall> diarrhea. Google autocorrects you if you type it wrong, just for next time ;)
521[06:23:39] <petn-randall> !debootstrap
522[06:23:39] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. replaced-url
523[06:25:01] <l0rd_hex> I didn't mind grub1 but grub2 seems rather large/complex for it's purpose
524[06:25:12] <n4dir> couldn't you just use grub, boot in it, and make the according changes then?
531[06:26:50] <dpkg> <mjg59> To a first approximation, when someone says "Lightweight" what they mean is "I don't understand the problems that the alternative solves". (replaced-url
532[06:27:30] <l0rd_hex> I'm a reduce-debian fanboy
533[06:27:31] <n4dir> just saying the debootstrap can be quite a ride to only get an installation. Not oustanding difficult, but, well, can be timeconsuming. Compared to hitting the enter key now and then
534[06:27:53] <n4dir> l0rd_hex: then debootstrap is the way to go
535[06:28:01] <l0rd_hex> n4dir: yeah, I recall trying it earlier and it being a pain in my anal triangle
536[06:28:18] <coke> if you dont like pain
537[06:28:28] <petn-randall> l0rd_hex: You do seem to have an anal fixation ...
538[06:28:30] <coke> use everything as is and dont touch/modify anything
539[06:29:01] <l0rd_hex> coke: I'd rather just write the operating system in raw elecricity
559[06:35:04] <l0rd_hex> petn-randall: before we had xkcd we had ELER (Everyone Loves Eric Raymond): replaced-url
560[06:35:40] <zPlus> I've had to change my dns resolvers in /etc/network/interfaces (Debian 10). I've used "dns-nameservers x.x.x.x y.y.y.y" and rebooted but it doesn't seem to be working. /etc/resolv.conf still contains the old resolvers and has not updated even after reboot. What am I missing? Can somebody help? Thank you.
561[06:37:07] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
562[06:37:10] <petn-randall> l0rd_hex: Sadly nobody took over, they were quite funny.
563[06:37:40] <petn-randall> zPlus: Can you share your complete /etc/network/interfaces?
564[06:37:43] <petn-randall> !paste
565[06:37:43] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
566[06:37:59] <l0rd_hex> they're were great, I wonder what happened to Mr. Bacon
567[06:38:22] <unsecur3d> i think u gotta follow this guide: replaced-url
568[06:40:28] <n4dir> iirc i just did it in the routers interface, and left all the rest alone.
581[06:45:51] <zPlus> petn-randall: yes the iface is up (I can use it except for dns) but resolvconf doesn't seem to be installed. I kind of assumed it was, this VM is running a vanilla debian installation
582[06:46:35] <petn-randall> zPlus: resolvconf hooks into ifupdown and parses those settings. So installing and rebooting should do the trick, or bringing the interface down and up again.
583[06:46:54] <zPlus> let me try
584[06:48:13] <zPlus> petn-randall: I can't install because dns is not working :/ Should I change resolv.conf manually then?
585[06:49:31] <petn-randall> zPlus: Heh. Yeah, then you should edit /etc/resolv.conf by hand.
586[06:51:12] <l0rd_hex> I'm quite impressed with the debian site redesign, replaced-url
587[06:53:21] <petn-randall> l0rd_hex: They've been the same for at least a year now. But replaced-url
756[10:07:47] <unixbsd> Concerning the linux kernel, do you appreciate that linux core kernel compilation is heavier now to compile. It never goes simpler. bison, flex, what next, cmake or whatever? however the complexity is greater, non necessarily in good direction for hardware.
793[11:05:29] <dokma> I've just upgraded an old server to Stretch. No MySQL anymore. Do I just in stall MariaDB now and it picks up the database from MySQL?
797[11:07:10] <Azrael_-> can i use logrotate to clean up logs in a custom log folder where the program already automatically creates a new log file each day?
798[11:09:59] *** Quits: pasiz (~pasiz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
799[11:12:51] <rudi_s> Azrael_-: I don't think so, but check the logrotate man page. But why not use find -mtime +7 -delete or so to delete files older than 7 days?
814[11:24:36] <vampifrog> hi, is there a dedicated directory where I can keep my custom systemd service files? I just threw them in /lib/systemd/system, where can I place them so I know they're my own custom ones?
828[11:37:04] <cm13g09> Hi all, I have a pair of virtual routers that have been running fine for months in a pair of VMs handling ~20Mbps of traffic. This week, we've seen one of them hang multiple times with the kernel log "rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU" with some slightly weird stack traces, but it's always in the networking.
829[11:37:18] <cm13g09> One-such kernel log is replaced-url
830[11:37:36] <cm13g09> Does anyone have any hints or pointers?
833[11:40:45] <quadrathoch2> vampifrog just because there are service files already in it, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be there for your own custom service files
834[11:41:04] <vampifrog> I know, but I just wanted an empty folder of my own :(
835[11:41:15] <quadrathoch2> vampifrog afaik there is none
836[11:41:26] <vampifrog> alright, thanks
837[11:41:30] <rudi_s> vampifrog: man systemd.unit lists the search path
839[11:42:03] <rudi_s> But it's common to store all host-specific configuration in /etc/, so in this case /etc/systemd/system/*
840[11:42:21] <quadrathoch2> i didn't know there was /etc/systemd/user hm
841[11:42:34] <vampifrog> looks like I can use /run/systemd/system, that one's empty
842[11:42:50] <rudi_s> That's also the proper way to override existing configuration files, if you like to do so. To extend them there's the .d directory for each service
843[11:43:11] <rudi_s> vampifrog: No, that's a tmpfs and destroyed on each boot. You should really use /etc/systemd/system because that's what it's there for.
844[11:43:36] <vampifrog> im gonna try to use /etc/systemd/user
845[11:43:53] <jelly> vampifrog, that's for per-session services
846[11:44:00] <vampifrog> urghh
847[11:44:33] <rudi_s> vampifrog: Use the correct path, and that's /etc/systemd/system. Don't try to guess without reading the relevant documentation.
848[11:44:43] <jelly> what he said
849[11:44:56] <vampifrog> alright it's good enough, thanks
850[11:45:02] <quadrathoch2> ./etc/systemd/system System units created by the administrator this is what the man says
853[11:45:53] <rudi_s> vampifrog: What quadrat<tab> quoted: man systemd.unit | less -p 'UNIT FILE LOAD PATH'
854[11:45:56] <vampifrog> well tehre are files in tehre that I didn't create
855[11:46:26] <rudi_s> There are files in all of /etc you didn't create. Still the place to put your changes ;-)
856[11:47:02] <vampifrog> no i'm just saying, if you're saying that /etc/systemd/system contains units created by the administrator, it means it's being misused cause I didn't create those files and I'm the administratotr
857[11:47:04] <rudi_s> And most of the files in /etc/systemd/system you did create, even maybe not knowingly. All symlinks are created by systemctl enable service and similar.
858[11:47:27] *** Quits: S3xyL1nux (~burnaby@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
859[11:47:35] <rudi_s> So either you (or the Debian postinstaller which enables daemons by default) did create those symlinks.
860[11:47:47] <rudi_s> There should be not much else in there, except a few (empty) directories.
861[11:48:32] <vampifrog> so is it a symlink directory or a unit directory?
864[11:48:51] <vampifrog> cause it seems that it can't make up its mind, it contains symlinks but also my custom units
865[11:48:58] <rudi_s> But you're correct that the directory is not only for custom services but only to store the list of enabled units (those which are started on boot).
889[11:58:51] <jelly> if you want to override an existing unit it's better to use a drop-in than to replace it with a whole unit definition. When a drop-in file is used, you can still mask the service
891[12:00:34] <rudi_s> jelly: Not if want to ensure that only my settings are used. - Anyway, it's not really important. Just wanted to mention that there are few things I also find unclean in systemd's use of /etc/systemd/system and so I can understand parts of vampifrog 's confusion.
905[12:13:47] <rudi_s> vampifrog: np, enable/disable only control what happens on system boot, it just creates/removes a symlink
906[12:14:06] <rudi_s> (If you only start a service, it won't get started on the next boot automatically.)
907[12:14:19] <vampifrog> yeah but I thought I'd have to do disable to remove the symlink and then enable again but it just overwrites the symlink with enable
908[12:14:32] <rudi_s> Oh, and if you change a unit don't forget to use systemctl daemon-reload (but systemctl warns you if you use a stale file).
909[12:14:41] <rudi_s> Yeah
910[12:14:52] <vampifrog> I didn't change the units, I just moved them around, so it didn't warn me about daemon reload
1056[14:23:34] <zPlus> why are old kernel images not removed automatically when a new one is installed? I just discovered that my /boot partition was full, filled with all the older kernels that have been updated over the years
1088[14:38:12] <brigand> all old kernels will get deleted when a new one is installed?
1089[14:38:21] <zPlus> ok. I'm fine with keeping the last installed version around, just in case, but having *all* previous versions is not much useful I guess
1090[14:38:39] <quadrathoch2> brigand, no most of the time 2-3 are being kept
1091[14:39:21] <brigand> ah, good. i kept it manually that way either way. thanks, quadrathoch2
1177[15:34:05] <NetTerminalGene> guys, youtube-dl that comes with buster doesn't work. and it is dependency of important packages. i can't remove it. how can i install latest youtube-dl on top of it?
1194[15:36:55] <quadrathoch2> brigand not with the packaged version
1195[15:37:03] <brigand> oh, i see
1196[15:37:03] <NetTerminalGene> GNU\colossus: drop? what do you mean?
1197[15:37:13] <quadrathoch2> copy/move
1198[15:37:16] <GNU\colossus> download and copy/move it there
1199[15:37:54] <NetTerminalGene> hmm... and it won't hurt other dependencies? it will not tell me autoremove important packages?
1200[15:38:29] <GNU\colossus> you won't be touching the installation from Debian packages at all
1201[15:39:37] <Elw3> I have a damaged system file, id like to reinstall the package for it but reinstall in synaptic didnt work and apt complains that it is already installed, what are the commands to force a reinstall of the files?
1231[16:02:33] <karlpinc> NetTerminalGene: Better to use pip and a python virtual environment. That way you get the latest dependencies as well. But whatever works.
1232[16:03:33] <NetTerminalGene> you mean dependencies override the default ones?
1233[16:03:39] <NetTerminalGene> no thanks
1234[16:04:42] *** Joins: conta (Thunderbir@replaced-ip)
1235[16:05:04] <ratrace> they don't "override" anything. it's contained in the virtualenv
1236[16:05:24] <ratrace> and the virtualenv method is definitely preferred. you can just pip -U and get the upgrades, no fuss.
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1243[16:09:06] <NetTerminalGene> ratrace: i can upgrade it with youtube-dl -U
1244[16:10:13] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: inside /usr/local/bin/ you'd have to do that as root. at least put it somewhere where it can't accidentally wipe out your fs
1245[16:10:35] <ratrace> by somewhere I mean in a dir where you can update like that as unprivileged user
1269[16:17:48] <BenWolf> hi, what's the appropriate UFW command to allow traffic to one profile (such as 'Nginx Full') from one specific IP address? For some reason it takes a different format for Profiles than for numbered ports and the help page is worthless
1384[17:49:38] <Dev0n> sorry should clarify, I'm trying to create a live usb to inspect some drives I've got and was wondering how bloated the gnome image is
1386[17:50:42] <Dev0n> Have looked more into it, I think I'll go with the live standard image and install bare bone gnome. azeem when I meant by software, I meant does come with things like openoffice etc
1387[17:50:51] <sney> for a troubleshooting/rescue environment, grml may be more appropriate
1406[17:56:01] <jhutchins> There was that time I used a live image to boot a Windows PC without leaving a trace. I had to destroy some documents that had been created by a contractor, but for which she'd never been paid, and which were being presented as her work as an artist.
1407[17:56:34] <Dev0n> hah sneaky :P]
1408[17:57:06] <Dev0n> azeem, tails is great although I had issue with it forcing TOR and was a bit flaky through my ISP
1409[17:57:16] <jhutchins> Basically catted /dev/random to them, preserving time and size.
1410[17:57:37] <Dev0n> and it didn't change modified time?
1411[17:57:44] <jhutchins> Yep.
1412[17:57:46] <Dev0n> I guess it won't since that's at OS level right
1413[17:57:54] <jhutchins> If you do it right.
1414[17:57:58] <Dev0n> cool
1415[17:58:14] <jhutchins> Also, working from Linux to NTFS, which I know how to do.
1416[17:58:33] <jhutchins> Perpretator ended up in jail on unrelated charges.
1417[17:59:55] <Dev0n> guess they got their comeuppance
1418[18:00:06] <jhutchins> Indeed.
1419[18:00:39] <jhutchins> We were running a riding stable, he sold himself the same horse multiple times just for the cashflow.
1447[18:12:24] <jhutchins> I've been on this gig since it was a Selectric typewriter on a 54baud modem, so some of my habits are obsolete.
1448[18:12:33] <Dev0n> I know, I think I've gone about in a roundabout way here. I'm just obsessed with not installing/having things that I don't need.
1449[18:12:42] <Dev0n> In this instance, it's fine I guess
1486[19:04:41] *** Quits: T-zef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Quit: it's time to get down !)
1487[19:05:06] <BillyZane> hi
1488[19:05:26] <BillyZane> well, i'm running a server for the first time and i'm pretty well settling on debian
1489[19:05:38] <BillyZane> i want to be able to stream media over the internet
1490[19:06:39] <BillyZane> as an example, lets say i have an mp4 file, or mkv, i want to be able to stream it in such a way that i could possible re-encode it on the fly, or down-sample if necessary
1511[19:19:12] <petn-randall> BillyZane: If your ultimate goal is to be able to stream something, I'd rather go with one of the many services out there that offer this.
1520[19:31:23] <lord_rob> Hi! If I manage a remote Linux computer using vnc, does the remote user see what I'm doing? That's the behavior when using vnc under windows, and that's what I'd like to do also on a linux remote box
1534[19:43:50] <zutat> has anyone had a good laptop experience lately? (not with a 5+ year old thinkpad)
1535[19:45:46] <sney> there have been a handful of newer models through here in the past few months, not sure of brand/model but they had ryzens or needed the sof firmware so that's recent
1537[19:47:00] <zutat> sney: yeah. lenovo now has several ubuntu certified models, but many model which i've seen irl were quite awful and i'm looking for a 16:10 or 3:2 screem
1539[19:47:44] <zutat> the first 16:10 model i know from lenovo is x1 nano and it isn't even available in europe yet. it's ubuntu certified though :)
1540[19:48:44] <doc|work> I have a lenovo, about 3 years old, not used even close to full time, and have had a key on the keyboard broke...
1541[19:48:59] <doc|work> It's a proper thinkpad too, not even one of the cheap ones
1542[19:49:04] <azeem> they don't make 'em like they sued to
1543[19:49:08] <doc|work> nope
1544[19:49:08] <azeem> used*
1545[19:49:26] <doc|work> their screens are pants too
1546[19:51:14] <zutat> :( that doesn't sound good. i just returned a dell for the screen being broken/not mounted correctly. it kind of feels like manufacturers have given up on laptops
1547[19:51:30] <zutat> at the same time, you can get an impressive smartphone with 200 euros
1548[19:51:34] <doc|work> yeah, I'm sworn off dell too for bad customer service a few years back
1549[19:51:48] <doc|work> hard to know what to buy really
1554[19:52:50] <doc|work> oh, also, lenovo has had some VERY questionable security "mistakes" over the years... and given their HQ's location, I don't think they can really be trusted
1563[19:59:24] <jhutchins> doc|work: So, that makes sense, abandon Dell for poor service in favor of what Super Micro with no customer service?
1564[19:59:48] <doc|work> jhutchins, who said anything about supermicro? I didn't.
1565[20:00:12] <GNU\colossus> jhutchins, that's not true. Supermicro engineers are actually VERY forthcoming and supportive when contacted by mail.
1566[20:00:34] <GNU\colossus> (I used to work at a primarily Supermicro shop a while ago)
1567[20:00:39] <lord_rob> sney: what about x0vncserver ? can I install it on a remote computer and be able to use it to manage the box remotely, the remote user being able to see what what I'm doing?
1569[20:00:44] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
1570[20:02:01] <sney> lord_rob: x0vncserver doesn't seem to be in debian. x11vnc is the one I'm familiar with, though at a glance they seem to do the same thing.
1571[20:02:04] <sney> ,i x11vnc
1572[20:02:04] <jhutchins> GNU\colossus: Perhaps our local SM distributor is not the best channel.
1573[20:02:08] <judd> Package x11vnc (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: VNC server to allow remote access to an existing X session. Version: 0.9.13-6+deb10u1; Size: 958.6k; Installed: 2052k; Homepage: replaced-url
1590[20:10:40] <prg3> How can I tell apt to install a group of packages, but not install a certain package within that group? For example: I want to install kde-standard, but without the 'ibus' package. Is there an option I can give to 'apt install' to exclude ibus?
1591[20:12:50] <sney> prg3: I *think* it'll accept e.g. 'apt install kde-standard ibus-' but if ibus is a dependency of something, rather than a recommend, you'll lose that whole piece of the chain.
1592[20:13:01] <sney> !equivs
1593[20:13:01] <dpkg> equivs is a package that enables you to create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have installed (through some other means) the package. apt install equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>. A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs, ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
1602[20:16:04] <prg3> 'apt install kde-standard ibus-' tries to install the same set of packages as 'apt install kde-standard' so it must be a dependency chain.. Removing ibus after installing kde-standard works without breaking any deps - but I'm sure equivs is a more elegant solution. I'll check it out - thanks
1638[20:48:45] <jammz> kworker began consuming my system.. couldn't even move the mouse most of the time (it would move 1px, then free up after a few minutes, for a few seconds)
1642[20:49:05] <ratrace> jammz: gnome under wayland?
1643[20:49:10] <FelixActually> You should ask in #debian-next if you're running Testing jammz
1644[20:49:10] <ratrace> also:
1645[20:49:15] <ratrace> !debian-next
1646[20:49:15] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1647[20:49:50] <jammz> sorry, kde
1648[20:49:52] <jammz> FelixActually, k
1649[20:49:59] <jammz> invite only
1650[20:50:36] <FelixActually> It's on the server irc.oftc.net
1651[20:51:27] <jhutchins> FelixActually: Technically, that's a network, not a server, but carry on...
1652[20:52:20] <FelixActually> Servers, channels, rooms, networks, all these terms make my head hurt :)
1654[20:54:50] <ratrace> I read today that kwin got rewritten from scratch. so that's what.... 10 more years of fixing bugs that were already fixed in previous iteration? :/
1703[21:04:12] <NetTerminalGene> yes. and no lsblk
1704[21:04:40] *** Quits: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1705[21:04:48] <ratrace> well... if you can't try other ports and this one doesn't tickle the kernel.... no idea what you could try next. it's dead, Jim.
1706[21:04:52] <NetTerminalGene> do those hardware require specific drivers?
1742[21:11:07] <NetTerminalGene> by the way. i also bought new ssd. and installed fresh buster. my previous ssd had buster upgraded from stretch and it was using 1.2 gb after boot. this fresh one uses 850 gb or something
1785[21:19:43] <freem> kernel and drivers alone take around 250 megs iirc
1786[21:19:54] <karlpinc> NetTerminalGene: A good OS uses as much ram as possible. Because unused ram is wasted ram. So if nothing else it uses ram for disk buffering.
1787[21:20:05] <ratrace> freem: iirc 1.3 is minimum even debootstrapped
1788[21:20:16] *** Quits: rgr (~rgr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1789[21:20:37] <ratrace> karlpinc: yeah I don't think that's reflected in the (gnome) system monitor
1790[21:20:42] <freem> yep, that's what I'd say too. I use usually less than 20gig for full system, but I probably can't go under 1gig
1792[21:21:36] <ratrace> NetTerminalGene: I'm pretty sure you're not comparing them fairly: is exactly the same software, extensions and configurations between them?
1892[22:51:02] <petn-randall> Hard to say, but the burden of proof always lays with the claimant. So if the article offers no explaination I'd just assume it's made up.
1893[22:52:13] <Heavy_Mettle> yes, i will, Thank you for your time.
1936[23:38:15] <Heavy_Mettle> petn-randall: On the topic of fonts: if one runs the xrdb -query command and compares it with the ubuntu settings. We can see that debian and ubuntu have the same font rendering configuration.
1947[23:40:27] <Heavy_Mettle> Mate doesn't if i am not mistaken
1948[23:40:33] <Heavy_Mettle> Gnome does
1949[23:40:45] <sney> KDE Plasma barely does. I imagine the other DE developers are working on it
1950[23:40:51] <petn-randall> robobox: I'm sure xfce does, no idea about the rest.
1951[23:41:20] <gnychis> after installing TLP for better battery management, I've noticed that when I have keyboard shortcuts setup in XFCE, that using a key combination to lock an application has become unreliable and sometimes duplicates. Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but figured I'd try
1952[23:41:38] <sney> TLP?
1953[23:42:13] <petn-randall> sney: tlp, the package.
1954[23:42:27] <Heavy_Mettle> gnychis: Have you tried xbindkeys instead of the default xfce keybinding settings?
1965[23:47:49] <b0bby__> hello I'm trying to install debian and I'm getting the following issue: It cant detect my ethernet card so It asks for the name of the driver. I select iwlwifi and it takes me back to the same screen. The firmware for the card is located in /lib/firmware
1966[23:47:58] <b0bby__> can someone help me get the network working
1967[23:48:09] <sney> !firmware image
1968[23:48:09] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
1969[23:48:30] <sney> using the firmware netinst is the easiest option for installing over wifi
1970[23:48:45] <Heavy_Mettle> ^ This, The non-free iso's are great.
1975[23:49:20] <b0bby__> sney: I'll do that but can you tell me how to do it without that in the meantime?
1976[23:49:23] <gnychis> Heavy_Mettle: got xbindkeys working, thanks a lot
1977[23:49:38] <Heavy_Mettle> Your welcome.
1978[23:49:46] <petn-randall> b0bby__: iwlwifi is for wireless network devices, but you're referring to your Ethernet card.
1979[23:50:12] <b0bby__> petn-randall: it's a laptop so it was a wireless card with no ethernet port
1980[23:51:16] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1981[23:51:17] <petn-randall> b0bby__: Ah, in that case you want to use the firmware image shown above. ^^^
1982[23:51:27] <Heavy_Mettle> Like dpkg said: try the non-free iso's. They are made by the same team that packages the normal iso's but include a lot more firmware.
1983[23:51:48] <Heavy_Mettle> Makes installing Debian like installing ubuntu, or Linux mint.
1984[23:52:17] <b0bby__> Heavy_Mettle: I'm downloading it now. But just to scratch my curiosity can you tell me how to do it without?
1986[23:52:51] <b0bby__> I know it seems kinda silly but it's just something I'd like to know
1987[23:53:03] <Heavy_Mettle> Otherwise your have to download the firmware you need (you have to know which) and put it in a usb pen. The installer will ask you where the firmware is located.
1990[23:54:15] <Heavy_Mettle> Just use the non-free iso's if you don't have an objection to a free non free components on your system.
1991[23:54:28] <Heavy_Mettle> * a few
1992[23:54:57] <b0bby__> Heavy_Mettle: I tried to do that but it didn't grab the firmware from the usb. I managed to copy it off manually. It's a .ucode file, it there anyway to load it in the cmd line?
1993[23:55:37] <sney> the firmware ucode files need to have the exact path expected by the driver, it can't search for them, so they can't just be dumped into /lib/firmware directly. if the file is in the right place, it'll load when the driver loads.
1994[23:57:28] <sney> it also needs to be the specific file for your nic model. modinfo iwlwifi|grep ucode|wc -l returns 35 different supported blobs, only one of which is the right one for your nic
1996[23:58:20] <sney> well, I guess the iwlwifi files do live in the root of /lib/firmware. but the rest still applies.
1997[23:58:28] <b0bby__> sney: ok
1998[23:58:52] <Heavy_Mettle> ^ this. After you install the non-free iso's you can install the vrms package and run it it will tell you which firmare you are using, along with other non-free software you have on your machine.
1999[23:58:53] <ratrace> H-var: iirc, those settings can be restored from a file, either on boot or when the DM session sources its rc file
2000[23:58:54] *** Quits: CombatVet (~c4@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2001[23:59:27] *** Quits: LucaTM (~LucaTM@replaced-ip) (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)
2002[23:59:29] <ratrace> H-var: I think that nvida-driver has a nvidia-persistence-something-somethign service exactly for that