13[00:15:45] <karlpinc> Exagone313: Nobody wants to have to keep track of what emails they have attended to and which need attention. That's why bug tracking systems exist.
14[00:16:07] <Exagone313> karlpinc: I don't report a bug that can't be reproduced
19[00:18:50] <Exagone313> I understand your point, I guess it depends to the package. if 100 users send an email, better to open an issue. I can't know if that's the case
20[00:19:24] <Exagone313> I can still open an issue, then later add more information on how to reproduce
21[00:19:35] <sney> spin up a vm to test/reproduce first, then file bug
27[00:24:54] <karlpinc> Exagone313: I'm not truly paying attention to your problem. But think of it this way. If you were the maintainer you probably don't want to know that somebody has a problem with a complex setup involving your package but can't tell you how to reproduce it or how to fix it. What actionable information can you supply the maintainer?
99[01:18:12] <skyliner_369> That sounds good. Would it be the same as on my personal pc? Has a built in m2 slot with a card installed with windows. I boot windows through grub
100[01:18:45] <skyliner_369> I got Linux on spinny.
101[01:19:44] <sney> that is the same principle
102[01:20:37] <Ede|Popede> why does `apt-cache show rss-glx` when it is installed on stretch, but when it is not on buster i get a "Purely Virtual Package" message? simulating install says N/A, but referred to by another package. And according to judd in buster the version string only had a '+b3' added.
103[01:20:52] <skyliner_369> Ok. Yeah windows refused to install (it saw the nvme in the pcie fine) because mobo didn't support booting from it
104[01:22:25] <sney> for help with windows install shenanigans, you should probably ask in ##windows.
105[01:22:56] <skyliner_369> Well I was asking if grub could bypass that limitation
106[01:23:15] <sney> from the debian perspective, if you have an existing $other-os on a disk in your system, and e.g. os-prober can detect it, then you'll be able to add that other OS to debian's grub menu.
107[01:23:32] <sney> this doesn't cover making windows accept the existence of other operating systems or bootloaders.
108[01:24:10] <skyliner_369> That's... true... windows barely begrudgingly accepts macos
203[02:42:42] <quadrathoch2> overrider you can either fix your policy (which I guess is why it's installing the older version) or apt install <package>=<version>
207[02:44:20] <overrider> quadrathoch2: ok one more hint in regards to fixing the policy. How would i start to go about that? I thought after adding a repo, apt automatically goes for the highest version one...
208[02:44:41] <quadrathoch2> overrider what does apt policy say? (paste it to paste.debian.net)
261[03:39:44] <maxtim> what's a good, safe and reliable way to transfer a large file from one machine to another via VPN? I have a 200gb file I need tx'd to my office. I have a share mounted via mount.cifs. I have tried cp (not a good choice), and rsync, which I'm not entirely sure is working. Mainly because it took all day and only tx'd about a quater of the file. Tried to restart the transfer, but it did just that, restarted the entire transfer. So now I
262[03:39:45] <maxtim> have a partial and a new partial....
275[03:49:22] *** Quits: sentriz (~sentriz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
276[03:49:29] <sney> maxtim: rsync is pretty much the best option (try with -W if the destination doesn't have the file yet), and your weak point is probably cifs, which is known to misbehave over tunnels and anything other than a lan.
283[03:51:53] <sney> maxtim: if the receiving end is a windows workstation and you have rdp access, you might try with pscp.exe from the putty suite to grab the file in the other direction rather than trying to tangle with a smb share
284[03:54:03] <maxtim> the flag -W reads 'copy files whole (w/o delta-xfer algorithm)' in the man page. What's the 'delta-xfer algorithm'?
285[03:54:43] <sney> that's where rsync calculates the difference between a src and dest file and only sends the changed bits, or deltas
286[03:54:57] <maxtim> ah
287[03:55:26] <maxtim> so what if the xfer is interupted again?
293[03:59:12] <sney> if the xfer is interrupted with -W then you would have to start over. but the reason rsync took all day is because it was spending a lot of time calculating checksums, and -W skips that part of the process
294[03:59:45] <maxtim> ah gotchya that makes a lot more sense
300[04:02:18] <maxtim> I could probably put up an nfs share. Or would that suffer the same or similar pitfalls?
301[04:02:58] <sney> nfs is even dumber about unreliable links than smb.
302[04:03:16] <maxtim> lol
303[04:04:00] <sney> again, assuming the receiving end is a windows desktop of some sort - I'd say use pscp or filezilla, initiate the transfer from *that* end, downloading from your debian machine at home
316[04:07:16] <invra> dunno if its a good idea to use backports on a saerver no?
317[04:07:38] <sney> safer than a 3rd party repo
318[04:08:21] <invra> i was thinking to jsut install it from the phpmyadmin site
319[04:08:26] <invra> better to use backport?
320[04:10:09] <sney> there's nothing inherently unsafe about backports, and I don't see any versioned dependencies here so it should install right alongside your existing php stack on buster
321[04:10:34] <sney> it's better to use packaged software whenever possible.
332[04:20:35] <sponix> sney: I found something that will actually not work without systemd the other day. And I'm kinda bummed about it, because it looks pretty cool --> "cockpit"
333[04:20:41] <invra> sney: really? and in these 10 years the development didnt get anywhere?
334[04:21:06] <alex11> the only thing with backports is that it's good not to install hundreds of them because eventually you will get dependency conflicts
335[04:21:09] <alex11> but basically it's fine
336[04:21:27] <sney> running any WHCP without good access control is a recipe for disaster, but webmin was the worst of the bunch. anyway, most linux admins take the training wheels off and stop using any of that stuff pretty quickly
337[04:24:49] <sney> invra: once a package is removed from debian, it starts over, and would have to go back through the wnpp process for approval in the archive. I guess it's possible that webmin isn't a backdoor-in-a-box anymore, but it also seems that nobody is interested in packaging it either
369[05:19:59] <mehwork> #gcp is dead so asking here. It might be a debian question anyway i'm not sure. I just installed a debian instance on Google Cloud Compute Engine (GCE) and it never asked me to set my user's password. When i run 'passwd' it asks for my current password but i have no idea what it is. How would i find it?
370[05:21:02] <mehwork> googling just turns up articles about how gce doesn't give your linux instance a _root_ password and to use 'sudo passwd' to set that, which I did. So maybe i can somehow use my root/sudo account to set my normal users password?
371[05:22:20] <tomreyn> sudo getent shadow shows you which accounts have passwords set
372[05:22:45] <tomreyn> sudo passwd $USER lets you set you users' password without knowing it if you have sudo access
373[05:23:17] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
374[05:23:19] <tomreyn> but then sudo would ask for your users' password in the first place, unless it's setup as passwordless sudo
375[05:23:42] <tomreyn> in the end things will matter on which image you chose to deploy
376[05:25:15] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
400[06:08:46] <Gerowen> sponix: That did it; mine actually had two groups, libvirt and libvirt-qemu, so I just added my account to both of them and now I'm no longer prompted for the root password when opening virt-viewer.
401[06:09:06] <sponix> Nice
402[06:09:16] <mehwork> Gerowen: woops, i meant that for tomren
407[06:16:34] <sponix> Gerowen: you using the qemu from the backports ?
408[06:17:58] <Gerowen> sponix: Negative, just the regular one from stable.
409[06:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1154
410[06:19:46] <sponix> Gerowen: Just wondering -- I put in the initial request for the buster backports of it. I needed a higher version to run Mac OS well :)
546[09:50:10] *** Quits: Jad (~Nashmi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Benefits I derive from freedom are largely the result of the uses of freedom by others, and mostly of those uses of freedom that I could never avail myself of.)
649[11:37:34] <mindlessmiss> I get this error qwhen I try to download with synaptic, any ideas?.... W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/root/.synaptic/tmp//tmp_sh' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
651[11:39:59] <jelly> mindlessmiss, are you starting synaptic as root?
652[11:40:24] <antto> ,v oceanaudio
653[11:40:25] <judd> No package named 'oceanaudio' was found in amd64.
654[11:41:17] <jelly> mindlessmiss, it's not an error, it's a W arning
655[11:41:31] <jelly> (should not be fatal)
656[11:41:59] <sgo11> Ede|Popede: thanks for your reply. I found a solution. I can use the command "udevadm info -q path -n /dev/sdb". It will show something like "...usb2/2-2/2-2:1.0/...". So that is Bus 2 Port 2. :)
657[11:42:58] <Ede|Popede> sgo11: ah cool. i really hate this hierarchy, always get stuck in the nested symlinks *g*
665[11:57:33] <mindlessmiss> jelly yes I did use sudo I remember now, simply because I could not get synaptic to start as it usually does, either by clicking the synaptic erntry in the app menu or pkexec synaptic
666[11:57:45] <mindlessmiss> I now get pkexec /usr/sbin/synaptic
667[11:57:45] <mindlessmiss> Error executing command as another user: Not authorized
668[11:57:45] <mindlessmiss> This incident has been reported.
706[12:36:54] <ratrace> for nice small sendmail implementation I recommend dma, but it requires an MTA somewhere, as it's a submission agent
707[12:37:36] <skvl> Hello. I failed to build Xen source package with instructions like this `apt-get build-dep xen && apt-get source xen && cd xen-4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391 && debuild -b -uc -us` (as per replaced-url
708[12:38:40] <ratrace> ,v xen
709[12:38:41] <judd> No package named 'xen' was found in amd64.
767[13:26:25] <nifker> I have a machine where I needed to kill apt when it was installing/configuring packages, how can I install/configure the remaining ones?
777[13:30:34] <nifker> one error I can find is: "2020-12-29 02:12:41: (mod_openssl.c.1797) SSL: 1 error:1417A0C1:SSL routines:tls_post_process_client_hello:no shared cipher"
793[13:47:33] <discovered> I really need to solve one problem with my debian system. I have Logitec Wireless keyboard and mouse. Both device randomly lagging(Slow or no response) suddenly. I have tried to fix with disabling wayland but no luck. I don't know what to try. It is more worse if i open multiple application such as virtualization. Need a help to fix this!
794[13:48:02] <ratrace> discovered: did you move the most obvious out of the way: batteries?
795[13:48:20] <discovered> ratrace, I am using Desktop
796[13:48:44] <ratrace> and your _wireless_ devices are powered how? portable micro fusion reactors in them?
797[13:48:56] <petn-randall> skvl: I'm trying to build it myself, to check if the issue is reproducible. Might take a bit.
799[13:50:10] <Ede|Popede> discovered: same here (on the air gapped PC). had the problems from the beginning, i suspect the connection, may not be as good as advertised.
804[13:51:49] <Ede|Popede> works mostly, but sometimes y start typing and nothing happens. usually it helps to wag the keyboard facing it to the receiver. which i had on the backside first, but then moved it to a slot at the front side. made things already much better.
805[13:51:55] <petn-randall> skvl: Btw, don't build as root, that's a bad habit. :)
806[13:51:57] <discovered> I got a additional device which pluged in usb 2. Tried in different usb interface. Same issue!
807[13:52:00] <ratrace> discovered: but what do you _think_ the devices are powered with? Check the batteries first. Most of the issues I ever saw with wireless devices were poor batteries
808[13:52:05] <discovered> Look like same issue: replaced-url
809[13:53:21] <petn-randall> skvl: I see you're trying to build xen from testing. What are you building it on? stable?
818[13:56:07] <Ede|Popede> discovered: not much more here, only the angle is pretty insane. maybe 30° instead of 90° measured at the front of the pc. but the gif on SE looks like a non-related issue, one i'm having on this old machine more than on the other one. old, slow, cheap graphics card. acceleration? who knows.
821[13:56:28] <discovered> petn-randall, Yes. I have two set of wireless device. Both are acting same. I am trying with a new one which i purchased about 4 days ago
823[13:57:24] <petn-randall> discovered: Do you have a cabled mouse to test? So we can check that it's related to your mouse and not the hardware acceleration.
824[13:57:59] <discovered> petn-randall, Yes that is what i have used before without any issue! Cabled keyboard/mouse working fine
825[13:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1186
826[13:58:27] <discovered> petn-randall, Should I plug it for debugging purpose now?
827[13:58:47] <Ede|Popede> discovered, did you try it right after login before you start something like a browser?
828[13:59:18] <petn-randall> discovered: If you've tested in today we don't need to test it again.
829[13:59:32] <discovered> Ede|Popede, Yes. Not that worse when i start using other applications
830[13:59:33] <ratrace> assuming langauge barrier and not really seeing a proper confirmation, I really still think the devices don't have new batteries inserted. those that come with purchased device, if at all, are usually dead on arrival
831[13:59:54] <discovered> petn-randall, No i did not test it today... Let me test it again then
832[13:59:55] <ratrace> or just explicitly confirm this and I'll stfu about them batteries :)
834[14:00:50] <Ede|Popede> ratrace: not in mine. bought the set some time ago, still using the first set. only having this communication problem, but definitely not battery related. maybe legislation here is just more consumer friendly.
837[14:01:59] <Ede|Popede> btw, what about rechargables? years ago i was trying to use them for whatever digital device it was and it turned out to be a not so good idea. 1.2V vs 1.5V (nominal) and under load going down even more.
838[14:02:17] <petn-randall> skvl: It builds fine here on bullseye.
844[14:04:09] <ratrace> Ede|Popede: the issue with bats is what made me toss the wireless things into nearest recycling bin and get me good old cabled things
845[14:04:19] <skvl> petn-randall: I build it under Docker
846[14:04:56] <skvl> petn-randall: I build it in sid
848[14:05:34] <ratrace> Ede|Popede: put new duracell things in them, lasts for a few weeks. them batteries were still good-ish, and I suspect poor power handling in the (admittedly) cheap-o mice, no gating so it deteriorates over time
850[14:07:36] <skvl> petn-randall: could You share all instructions used to download and build the Xen please? And describe the environment too. Thanks a lot.
851[14:08:32] <petn-randall> skvl: It's a sid sbuild. It will install all the required dependencies and the build the package and run piuparts.
852[14:08:52] <petn-randall> skvl: Is your sid up-to-date? Did you install all the build requirements?
853[14:11:10] <skvl> petn-randall: I have downloaded recent Docker `debian:sid`, update system with `apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade` and perform `apt-get build-dep xen && apt-get source xen && cd xen-4.14.0+88-g1d1d1f5391 && debuild -b -uc -us`
867[14:17:45] <skvl> petn-randall: Thanks. I would try to test with regular user.
868[14:18:04] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
869[14:18:40] <petn-randall> skvl: In my build logs the step where you error out runs through fine. So apparently in my build the files got installed to a package fine.
882[14:27:36] <Ede|Popede> ratrace: i'll check occasionally when i bought it, i have to find the bill. batteries was the reason why it took me so long to take this path, i remember people changing their batteries all the time as well as the desperate look for a wall socket as soon as they get through the door. early "smart"phones ;)
908[14:52:01] <PaddyF> hello. my PC uses a Radeon RX590 and i would like to run it without installing the firmware-linux-nonfree and firmware-amd-graphics packages. could somebody guide me, please?
919[14:56:51] <tomreyn> you'd need to buy different hardware, i think. i'm not sure whether there is a well performing open source graphics stack which does not depend on binary blobs.
926[14:59:08] <PaddyF> the whole idea is very naive, i see that now
927[14:59:23] <petn-randall> PaddyF: Your GPU is already running with non-free firmware. The one that is burned in. So there's little benefit of not installing firmware-linux-nonfree.
956[15:16:56] <petn-randall> discovered_: Did you check the system logs for any errors regarding your mouse?
957[15:17:04] <ratrace> discovered_: I know I'm annoying, but you never confirmed that you actually put in fresh new batteries. I'm still betting on that to be the cause.
958[15:18:10] <discovered_> ratrace, You i mean, At first i should put a new battery? Then i have to get one first
961[15:18:39] <ratrace> discovered_: well yes, that's what I've been trying to tell you all this time. Put in new ones, confirm that you did so and confirm that it did or did not solve your issue.
971[15:21:44] <ratrace> simpledat: from sources most likely, and be careful you don't do that as root, or install system-wide. why do you need _that_ particular version?
972[15:22:07] <simpledat> python3 is already the newest version (3.5.3-1).
973[15:22:30] <simpledat> ratrace: Why not as root?
974[15:22:37] <dvs> simpledat: but you are using Debian 9 in that case.
975[15:22:42] <simpledat> I need it for electrum bitcoin wallet
976[15:22:45] <ratrace> because you risk clobbering your packaged system python which will break everything python related
996[15:30:34] <ratrace> or try backporting the debian package from buster. the fact there's no 3.7 in stretch backports already makes me wonder if there's something preventing the backport. but maybe it's as simple as running:
997[15:30:35] <simpledat> Can I download it from this one?
1000[15:30:39] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
1006[15:33:08] <ratrace> simpledat: you don't, without making a mess of dependencies
1007[15:33:48] <ratrace> openssl for starters.... I'd _really_ just recommend a simple build into a local dir as mentioned in the stackoverflow link I posted above
1026[15:43:03] <simpledat> So how can I run electrum on my computer then?
1027[15:43:46] <ratrace> right, so two options: 1) try the backport route, which requires installing build deps and messing with system pkgs, or 2) do what the SO answer linked above recommends, download tarball, build in a dir, create virtualenv of it, boundle it all together
1028[15:44:24] <ratrace> building it might _still_ require build deps preinstalled, so maybe stretch's 3.5 can be reused
1029[15:45:16] <ratrace> option 3) debootstrap a buster or sid chroot, install and run there. you can use the deboostrap'd dir with a local systemd namespaced service
1030[15:45:23] <simpledat> I have no clue how to do it
1031[15:45:33] <ratrace> learn it :)
1032[15:45:44] <simpledat> What would be easiest for me?
1033[15:45:59] <ratrace> maybe option 3)
1034[15:46:57] <ratrace> no building required, no pollution with packages from build deps. just a single dir debootstrapped with Buster, chroot into it to instlal your wallet, and if that's a service, you can make a service unit on your host to use the chroot
1035[15:47:08] <jelly> simpledat, set up a nspawn container or chroot for debian 10 and run in there
1036[15:47:37] <simpledat> jelly: Can you please guide me how to do it?
1050[15:50:26] <DanteD> bullseye/testing mounting exfat usb stick: "mount: /mnt: unknown filesystem type 'exfat'." I have exfat-utils and exfat-fuse installed. I also tried exfatprogs. Any ideas?
1051[15:50:42] <ratrace> jelly: that's terrible and totally not scoring you any bragging rights :)
1052[15:51:20] <simpledat> How do I run a AppImage?
1061[15:52:59] <ratrace> if by "well" you mean it didn't segfault.... then I can imagine it, yes :)
1062[15:53:12] <asymptotically> DanteD: make sure you have CONFIG_FUSE_FS enabled or as a module in your kernel config. also if you have a newer kernel, i think there might be an exfat module in there now
1063[15:53:18] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1064[15:53:18] <ratrace> missing kernel options are gonna wreck any other concepts of "well"
1069[15:54:44] <DanteD> Is linux-image-5.9.0-5 current for bullsye now?
1070[15:54:55] <ratrace> simpledat: then you'll have to ask google how to run appimage thinkgs on debian. and now you've made me go check, there's also snap of it, so if you want snaps, that's two commands to install it :)
1079[15:57:26] <ratrace> maybe I should really default to checking if there's a snap or flatpak of any unpackaged program asked to be installed....
1080[15:57:46] *** Quits: treeview (~treeview@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1081[15:57:56] <simpledat> What's the different between installing it and run it as appimage?
1082[15:58:42] <ratrace> an appimage (or flatpak, or snap) is a containerized "package" that includes everything needed to run a program. they're mini-operating-systems, without the kernel
1083[15:59:18] <ratrace> simpledat: same thing you'd get if you debootstrapped buster, then used nspawn to start a shell in it, and install your wallet, then run the wallet in that "chroot" or nspawn namespace
1084[15:59:21] <n4dir> VCVRack Appimage sure doesn't contain alsa or jack. But i guess yes, that is the general idea
1086[16:00:12] <simpledat> is it more or less secure to run it as appimage?
1087[16:00:13] <ratrace> alsa or jack are interfaces usually expected to exist on the host, and require kernel modules (alsa at least) so they can't be containerized anyway
1088[16:00:23] <simpledat> I mean, is it better to install it then run it as appimage?
1089[16:00:44] <n4dir> hence calling it a mini-operating-system is a bit of a stretch
1090[16:00:54] <greycat> micro-
1091[16:01:00] <ratrace> containerized programs have security advantages, yes, as they're contain(eriz)ed inside a single filesystem, process and uid namespace
1092[16:01:18] <ratrace> n4dir: right. it's a "close enough" analogy
1093[16:01:39] <ratrace> and _some_ containers are behemoths of literally entire installation of , say, debian, sans the kernel
1097[16:02:33] <n4dir> close enough for me too. As long i got other options, i would use those. For Rack i haven't. But i don't really know bout AppImages, besides that.
1099[16:03:17] <ratrace> I have no experience with AppImages but from what I've read .... they're maybe most preferable if you want as simple as possible, as they don't come with all the logistics and infra overhead of, say, snaps
1104[16:07:26] <n4dir> For this one AppImage it kinda is straight forward. Though i need a wrapper script or always run it from the directory where it is stored. But that is probably this AppImage only.
1147[16:54:04] <unixbsd> hello, in debian repos, is there an alternative to gnumeric and libreoffice spreadsheet. are there other applications, available from repository?
1193[17:30:57] <Ingvix> hmm, if I want a selective vpn connection is my best choice to set up a minimal virtual machine that's running openvpn client and proxy server or are there other ways? the vpn server is not my own
1211[17:38:12] <PaddyF> or take the easy road to "ufw"
1212[17:38:24] <sney> your openwrt device may be a good choice, or not, vpn encryption has significant cpu overhead
1213[17:39:55] <Ingvix> well I could also set it up on my general-purpose/media server that's currently directing everything to vpn and I also have a proxy on it that I've used so far
1214[17:40:11] <Ingvix> but now I'd like to have more control on the server on what goes where
1234[17:55:19] <Azrael_-> is it possible to install openjdk 8 and 11 side by side on stretch?
1235[17:55:57] <petn-randall> Azrael_-: If the packages don't conflict I'd expect them to.
1236[17:56:20] <sney> openjdk packages are versioned, so you can install them side by side, though a given debian release usually only has one version available
1237[17:57:55] *** Quits: Jad (~Nashmi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Benefits I derive from freedom are largely the result of the uses of freedom by others, and mostly of those uses of freedom that I could never avail myself of.)
1242[17:59:13] <Azrael_-> sney: correct, that's what i also realized. that's why i'm asking how i could accomplish this. got a software which only runs on jdk8 but another software which runs properly on jdk11. thus i want to use both at the same time in the same machine
1253[18:09:24] <jelly> Azrael_-, if your service does not deal with untrusted inputs and is not exposed to the internet, you could add stretch repos back to sources.list and use the binary pacakges from there.
1254[18:09:58] <jelly> Azrael_-, you could also set up a separate stretch environment (like a chroot, or a systemd-nspawn container)
1255[18:10:40] <jelly> Azrael_-, adding repos for the OLDER debian release to mix with current release isn't too horrible an idea
1257[18:13:06] <Azrael_-> so i probably won't have that much of problems if i want to upgrade debian lateron and won't get screamed at for using a "frankendebian" :)
1258[18:14:19] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1262[18:17:27] <greycat> having leftover old packages is fine and normal
1263[18:17:58] <greycat> intentionally *adding* old packages because the newer ones don't work or don't exist is... less normal, but can be fine as long as you know what you're doing
1272[18:22:32] <Azrael_-> ok, thanks a lot for the feedback. just found out the old software didn't look for openjdk8 but oracle java 1.8 and i just downloaded+extracted it into a self contained folder. and it works like this
1273[18:22:45] <prometheanfire> having a kernel version locked to a distro release just seems odd to me (coming from gentoo...)
1289[18:24:31] <sney> routebee: any installer can give you that, just unselect all of the tasks at the software selection dialog
1290[18:24:32] <alexrelis[m]> I have the KDE minimal package installed. Why is it when I remove kde-screenshot or juk, it tells me that a whole bunch of dependencies are not needed and says that an autoremove would get rid of them?
1291[18:24:35] <greycat> All the installers give you the same choices at the end. The only difference is how many packages are physically on the medium.
1300[18:25:56] <sney> yeah, the only wifi adapters that *don't* need non-free firmware are ath5k and ath9k, and those are pretty old now. ath9k only goes up to 802.11n
1301[18:26:06] <greycat> For the question that was asked here, the netinst with nonfree firmware sounds like the best pick.
1302[18:26:07] <n4dir> if all one wants is terminal wlan and dpkg, then deborphan installation might be a choice
1303[18:26:31] <n4dir> but then: why the trouble ...
1304[18:27:47] <unixbsd> hello, in debian repos, is there an alternative to gnumeric and libreoffice spreadsheet. are there other applications, available from repository?
1308[18:28:15] <dpkg> rumour has it, debtags is a way of categorising packages with tags (facets) that describe how a package can be used, what data it can read/write, what interfaces it has etc. This adds another dimension to package searching. Install the debtags package, then search either using "debtags" or "aptitude". For a GUI install packagesearch. Search (or add new tags) at replaced-url
1309[18:28:36] <sney> I can't think of any other spreadsheet apps offhand but this should be a good way to find out, unixbsd ^
1310[18:28:39] <greycat> sounds like overcomplicating to me. just do a netinst and pick "Standard" at the end.
1344[18:44:08] <greycat> how about "ls -l filename"? that shows you the last modification time. if you didn't modify it after "download", then that should be what you want.
1345[18:44:10] *** ezri9229 is now known as S3xyL1nux
1346[18:45:01] <greycat> unless of course the thing you used to "download" the file altered the timestamp after the download, to match the timestamp on the source file. some of them do that. in that case, there is NOTHING that stores the metadata you want.
1347[18:45:26] <greycat> unless it's in ctime, but even then you're just rolling dice.
1348[18:45:37] <greycat> ctime will be updated whenever you chmod or whatever.
1349[18:45:41] <dff> which approaches are viable if i want to move debian from sdc to sdb?
1352[18:46:02] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
1353[18:46:17] <greycat> the question that was asked is SO incredibly convoluted and vague that it has to be an X-Y
1372[18:51:16] <NetTerminalGene> greycat: man, there is a file in my computer. i want to know when it is created or copied, or downloaded. is it too complicated?
1373[18:51:23] <greycat> YESQW
1374[18:51:26] <greycat> YES IT IS!
1375[18:51:38] <NetTerminalGene> -_-
1376[18:52:35] <NetTerminalGene> i say, i downloaded a file in my computer in past. now i want to know when the file touched my disk
1377[18:53:26] <Ede|Popede> wouldn't this be birth time?
1378[18:53:38] <greycat> Maybe.
1379[18:53:55] <dff> sorry i want to clone debian (currently on a 1TB SDD) to an SSD with 500gb. That SSD has windows on, it want windows on the SSD debian currently is on. I have an unused 1TB spinning disk that can work as temp storage
1382[18:54:23] <dff> sorry i cant edit those typos, try to make sense of it
1383[18:54:28] <Ede|Popede> `stat ~` on my ext4 → Birth: -
1384[18:54:35] <ratrace> $32k question. is birth time the time of first byte or last byte :)
1385[18:54:46] <greycat> NetTerminalGene: Unix stores 3 timestamps for each file. None of them is what you want. Linux ext4 adds a 4th one called "birth time". No standard unix tool can display it. It may or may not be what you want. Did you try "ls -l" yet? It might work. Or it might not.
1386[18:55:06] <jelly> Ede|Popede, stat userspace in buster does not know the correct way to ask kernel for that info
1387[18:55:17] <jelly> !crtime
1388[18:55:17] <dpkg> Some filesystems may store creation time after all, even if POSIX APIs don't expose it. Ext4 does. E.g., to check how long ago your root filesystem root directory was created: f="/"; dev=`df -P "$f"|tail -n1|awk '{print $1}'`; i=`stat -c%i "$f"`; sudo debugfs -R"stat <$i>" "$dev" 2>&1|grep ^crtime
1389[18:55:21] <jelly> Ede|Popede, ^
1390[18:55:31] <Ede|Popede> is it even in the kernel? afaik linus refuses for whatever reason atm
1391[18:56:05] <jelly> yes, glibc and userspace will have it, not sure if bullseye but bookworm for sure
1392[18:56:37] <jelly> Ede|Popede, many Bothans died to bring you that onelines
1393[18:56:44] <jelly> oneliner*
1394[18:56:53] <NetTerminalGene> greycat: wtf is that? nevermind, i gave up
1416[18:59:49] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1417[19:00:09] <Sarcutus> Pardon me all, idiotic question here -- is there a package in the repo for a system tray in Debian? I'm using Debian/GNU Linux DI Alpha-3 Skolelinux.
1418[19:00:15] * jelly did not notice NTG asked the question
1419[19:00:22] <NetTerminalGene> jelly: i am not gonna enter that command in any way
1420[19:00:24] <b-04> why not found? tar zcfv nginx_proxy.tar.gz . --exclude='./logs'
1421[19:00:30] <b-04> i need to exclude logs directory
1422[19:00:32] <jelly> !pal NetTerminalGene
1423[19:00:32] * dpkg points at NetTerminalGene and laughs hysterically
1424[19:00:39] <greycat> !skolelinux
1425[19:00:39] <dpkg> Skolelinux is a Debian Pure <Blend> produced by the <Debian Edu> project, see replaced-url
1444[19:03:55] <jelly> Sarcutus, xfce should have a system tray thing for the panel
1445[19:04:05] <jelly> not sure if it's there by default
1446[19:04:13] <b-04> im in the directory, have some files and folders, and have a folder called "logs" and subfolders in logs, i need to exclude the logs folder
1447[19:04:14] <Sarcutus> jelly: I know. My problem is with MATE and GNOME.
1448[19:04:20] <b-04> tar zcfv nginx_proxy.tar.gz . --exclude='./logs'
1449[19:04:36] <b-04> my pwd is the directory
1450[19:04:53] <b-04> i need to backup all, except folder logs and subfolders in logs
1451[19:04:55] <ratrace> b-04: fv is a nope. filename must come directly after f, try czvf
1452[19:05:02] *** Quits: gturner (gturner@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1454[19:05:38] <ratrace> have some hierachy there :) create, compress, be verbose about it, the file nginx_proxy.tar.gz from_dir --exclude=this_and_that
1456[19:06:36] <greycat> GNU is extremely weird about letting people put options in random places that options should not be, to the point where I have no idea which GNU tar commands will work and which will fail
1465[19:09:01] <jelly> Shirely tar --exclude='logs/reverseproxy/*' zcvf nginx_proxy.tar.gz from_dir and leave off that damn .
1466[19:09:09] <jelly> ?
1467[19:09:38] <greycat> using a shell extended glob to match all the source directories EXCEPT "logs" might work if he's writing for a shell that has extglobs
1468[19:09:48] <jelly> why would someone tar up both . and some named dir
1469[19:10:09] <greycat> I don't think he understands that you meant one as a placeholder
1470[19:10:36] <jelly> ah.
1471[19:10:46] <greycat> Bear in mind that he also didn't understand why the f has to be right before the output filename...
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1490[19:23:14] *** Quits: eliotome3000 (~eliotime@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1491[19:23:20] <DrBunsen> Heya all, weird question maybe, but can I have each monitor I connect work like a different work station? I want to use a workstation as a workstation on monitor A and monitor B as my television. But the problem now sound and KBM et cetera is all shared, and I wonder if there is a way like you can do with VMs is to say monitor B is workstation B and KBM on usb X only works on B. If that is clear anyway.
1498[19:25:15] <ratrace> DrBunsen: this maybe replaced-url
1499[19:26:04] <hramrach> DrBunsen does running a TV application on one screen not cut it? does it really need to be separate? If so then you probably want to look into multiseat but it's challenging to set up without having separate graphics card for each monitor
1502[19:26:53] <DrBunsen> Multi seat, I knew there was something like that, thanks. And I will read into it. I couldn't really format my question for google to understand it. Thanks.
1503[19:27:01] <ratrace> speaking of sound, it should be possible to separtae outputs between applications with pulseaudio
1504[19:27:36] <ratrace> if THAT is all that's problematic here, grab a cheap-o few bucks USB audio device as secondary, and separte app sound ports via PA
1505[19:28:24] <DrBunsen> The tv is connected thourgh HDMI, that is also visible as a audio device. And for the other audio I just use the jacks.
1519[19:39:27] <ratrace> do you actually even need it? you can separate desktops between monitors, then slam the tv app in one, push its audio through a dedicated port, ?????, profit?
1528[19:44:29] <greycat> mtime is the last time data was written to the file. ctime is the last time the file's metadata changed (owner, group, permissions, etc.)
1530[19:44:54] <greycat> and the third one, atime, is the last time data was read from the file, except that most systems have stopped tracking atime, because it's a HUGE burden
1531[19:45:46] <NetTerminalGene> greycat: why do you know that?
1589[20:23:56] <sney> what's the whole fstab line for your secondary disk?
1590[20:24:59] <karlpinc> NetTerminalGene: I don't know where you are in your Linux-Fu training, but "man less" will tell you how to use the standard pager so you can then search in man pages.
1591[20:25:14] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1876[23:41:15] <smurfke> Question: the folder I am sharing via NFS has the following permissions on freebsd --> smurf:wheel. On my client (Debian) I would like it to be mounted as smurf:smurf
1877[23:41:26] <smurfke> 1) Is that possible
1878[23:41:35] <dob1> what is the ram usage of newer debian installed system?
1879[23:41:41] <dob1> *new
1880[23:41:48] <smurfke> 2) Will smurf:smurf have the needed permissions to do everything smurf:wheel can do on freebsd?
1881[23:41:55] <jhutchins> I guess xfce & chrome are using Evince. "Just Works".
1885[23:42:56] <jhutchins> smurfke: Is smurf a member of wheel?
1886[23:43:03] <smurfke> on freebsd, yes
1887[23:43:29] <smurfke> however the group wheel does not exist on my debian installation. That's why I am asking
1888[23:43:47] <sney> dob1: depending on desktop environment, <1GB with nothing running, expanding to way more than that if you have a few browser tabs open.
1889[23:43:49] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1890[23:43:53] <jhutchins> smurfke: Try it and see. I don't think local permissions are relevant on NFS mounts.
1902[23:48:04] <pfred1> I think my NFS works because i set all my PCs up the same
1903[23:48:06] <smurfke> jhutchins: in fact I also have an SMB share set up but I thought NFS would be the way to go in a *nix enviornment
1904[23:48:26] <smurfke> pfred1: thanks prolly your UIDs and GIDs do match then
1905[23:48:29] <jhutchins> smurfke: I believe the NFS client documentation is pretty good these days, particularl v3 as people have been using it forever, and the NAS makers have never gone on to 4.
1909[23:48:47] <smurfke> I think that'll be the problem then
1910[23:49:05] <pfred1> smurfke I'm sure there's ways of getting it to work if they don't though
1911[23:49:20] <smurfke> okay!
1912[23:49:41] <pfred1> when it works a remote mount should work just like a local disk
1913[23:49:57] <jhutchins> smurfke: The problem with NFS is that unless you have centralized accounts - single sign-on - you run into issues where smurf@box1 has a different UID and GID than smurf@box2