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54[00:40:38] <alexrelis[m]> I'm new to Openbox and window managers. Does anyone know of an application launcher where I can just press the super key and type the search the name of an application? I'd much prefer launching applications this way.
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59[00:43:17] <jhutchins> alexrelis[m]: It's alt-f2 in xfce.
60[00:43:24] <beelzebuzz> alexrelis[m]: i use the xfce app launcher on fluxbox
61[00:43:43] <jhutchins> !openbox
62[00:43:43] <dpkg> Openbox is an X window manager originally based on <Blackbox> 0.65.0, then rewritten in C (no code based on Blackbox since v3.0). replaced-url
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78[01:03:58] <auk> alexrelis[m], i use Synapse on both i3 and xfce
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87[01:10:13] <ross`> how do you do an iptables -m iprange --src-range for ipv6?
88[01:10:19] <ross`> -m iprange --src-range fd13:37:2::1-fd13:37:99::ffff
89[01:10:20] <chowder> Hi guys, I was hoping someone could assist me with my issue. I'm on the current release (stable branch 10.6). I'm using full disk encryption with LVM2 and my /home volume won't mount. What happened was that I shrunk it and then grew my / volume. No problems mounting the / volume. Its just the /home volume which fsck reports as being corrupted. I'm on a live system and I'm doing an fsck -y on the volume. My data is backed up I woul
90[01:10:20] <chowder> d just rather not have to go through the pain of a reinstall. replaced-url
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92[01:10:24] <ross`> I want to do somethign like this but it's not working
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98[01:18:20] <jmcnaught> chowder: did you resize2fs the filesystem before using lvreduce on the home LV?
99[01:18:48] <chowder> nope. that was a mistake wasn't it?
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101[01:19:58] <jmcnaught> Yeah, there will be data missing because the logical volume underneath the filesystem lost a bunch of extents.
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104[01:21:26] <chowder> jmcnaught, yeah I've been running fsck on it for a while. I'm not sure whether I should let it take its course or just recreate the lvm volume
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106[01:22:11] <jmcnaught> How much space did you remove from the volume? It might be best just to restore from backups.
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119[01:28:42] <chowder> jmcnaught, I only removed like 20-30 GB
120[01:28:54] <chowder> but the volumes themselves were barely full
121[01:30:20] <chowder> Its a 500 GB HDD that has a boot partition and then a partition for LVM. Within the LVM partition it has the root and home volumes. I shrunk the home volume so that root could enjoy a bit more room. There wasn't an issue with the root volume being mounted though. Its only the home volume.
122[01:30:43] <chowder> luckily my backups are fairly recent. The only things that have changed are a few PDFs that I downloaded
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124[01:31:41] <jmcnaught> chowder: when you grow a logical volume with a filesystem on it, you grow the LV first, and then ext4 can grow on a live system. For shrinking it's the opposite, you need to unmount, shrink the filesystem first, then shrink the LV.
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126[01:32:27] <jmcnaught> chowder: fortunately they made it so in Debian 10 the installer asks if you would like to keep some of the LVM volume group unallocated, so you can decide where to use the extra space later.
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128[01:33:07] <jmcnaught> Before Debian 10 the installer just always used 100% of the volume group, leaving no room for snapshots or later decisions.
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132[01:35:52] <chowder> jmcnaught, ok so do you know what I should do if I decide to nuke my home volume and recreate it?
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135[01:37:13] <chowder> I mean, my dotfiles will be gone but I know that I can copy some of the defaults from /etc/
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137[01:38:54] <jmcnaught> chowder: the basic steps would be to use lvremove on the LV, then lvcreate to make a new one, (for example "lvcreate -L 200G -n home forge" if forge it the VG name), then mkfs.ext4 on /dev/mapper/forge-home, then mount it and copy your files.
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139[01:39:52] <YWH_1> replaced-url
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141[01:40:29] <chowder> jmcnaught, thanks man. I'll give it a shot. I'm still lingering to hope (why? who knows) and will probably let fsck finish
142[01:41:01] <jmcnaught> chowder: good luck, you are welcome to highlight me if you run into trouble with the details.
143[01:41:44] <chowder> thanks. fsck just finished so I'm rebooting and hoping that fsck somehow fixed things. If not, I'll move forward with your suggestion. Thanks again
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157[02:00:12] <chowder> jmcnaught, hey I'm back. Even after running fsck it didn't mount the home volume. Worth a shot anyway. I went ahead and removed the home volume and recreated it. I then mounted the volume and did an mkfs.ext4. There should be more than enough room but how do I recreate the defaults for my home directory? Like the default .bashrc
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160[02:03:29] <chowder> jmcnaught, I also had full disk encryption enabled. I figured that I'll need to re-encrypt the logical volume
161[02:03:45] <jmcnaught> chowder: /etc/skel has the files that get put into a new account
162[02:04:00] <chowder> ok, copied them. .bashrc, .profile, and .bash_logout
163[02:05:43] <chowder> I'm not sure if I luksformat the volume at this point
164[02:05:48] <jmcnaught> chowder: if you used guided partitioning in the debian-installer to get LVM+encryption then the entire volume group should still be encrypted. The layers in the stack are: physical disk > luks encrypted volume > LVM physical volume > LVM volume group > LVM logical volume > filesystem
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167[02:06:49] <chowder> ok that makes sense. I'll try rebooting again and see if I can log in normally. Thanks again.
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172[02:09:55] <abrotman> must be Manhattan, otherwise it would be "chowda"
173[02:13:50] <jim> hi, is sysrq key functionality generally enabled by default when installing just the base?
174[02:14:29] <jim> if not, what are my options to enable it and/or configure it?
175[02:15:04] <jim> links to docs or references to man pages are most welcome
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178[02:16:48] <jmcnaught> jim: according to the Debian Reference it is enabled by default: replaced-url
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180[02:17:21] <jim> jmcnaught, thanks, much appreciated
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184[02:24:59] <jim> which key is the sysrq key? my keyboard has "print screen", "scroll lock" and "pause/break".... is it one of those or soemthing else?
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187[02:30:12] <another> should be print
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196[02:46:00] <oiaohm> Jim sysrq is the old print screen.
197[02:46:57] <oiaohm> jim: replaced-url
198[02:48:12] <oiaohm> To be correct the button was system request but since the OS most common hookup was print screen it came labeled print screen as well.
199[02:48:35] <oiaohm> Come forward a few years and different keyboards no longer put the sys rq text on it.
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202[02:50:25] <another> back in the DOS days, 'Print screen' would actually get me a printout of the current screen
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207[02:54:21] <jmcnaught> One of my keyboards (US) is labelled "prt sc / sys rq", but the French Canadian one is "Impr écran / Syet". Not sure what "syet" is in French.
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223[03:07:02] <solrize> anyone know if there is a FOSS cups driver for brother laser printer? there is apparently a binary-only one on brother's web site but i'd rather avoid binaries
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228[03:13:09] <incal> o/ just deleted a directory by accident, now idea what it was, is there a way to get the names (paths) of recently deleted files?
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230[03:14:14] <jmcnaught> solrize: is your printer on replaced-url
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232[03:14:53] <jmcnaught> incal: ext4magic might work if the filesystem is ext4, I do not know how to use it myself though.
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237[03:19:18] <incal> jmcnaught, it is ext4!
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250[03:25:21] <solrize> jmcnaught, i think it's this one; replaced-url
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252[03:25:38] <solrize> but i think that points to binary only software?
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255[03:26:05] <solrize> i have to go look at the printer to check the model # but i think it's that one or similar
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259[03:27:04] <solrize> hmm the ppd view and download buttons point to empty files
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266[03:42:22] <jmcnaught> solrize: some printers can also use "standard" languages for drivers, you could check the printer's manual for PostScript or PCL support.
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271[03:53:04] <solrize> jmcnaught, it's weird that the openprinters page doesn't mention that then, but ok, i'll see if i can find the manual online. i'm sure if i ever had a paper manual it's long gone
272[03:53:09] <solrize> thanks
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274[03:54:04] <hl521> nftables isn't a default package in debian, correct?
275[03:57:56] <jmcnaught> ,i nftables
276[03:57:57] <judd> Package nftables (net, optional) in buster/amd64: Program to control packet filtering rules by Netfilter project. Version: 0.9.0-2; Size: 44.1k; Installed: 113k; Homepage: replaced-url
277[03:58:04] <jmcnaught> ^ "optional"
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279[04:00:20] <hl521> yeah I'm wondering if I didn't install it with this, since after disabling it, ICMP and unifi is working perfect
280[04:00:56] <themill> (it's optional, but iptables recommends it, so it would normally end up installed)
281[04:01:05] <hl521> albeit, I really should learn how to use it correctly
282[04:01:09] <hl521> yeah
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285[04:03:43] <jmcnaught> I wonder how I got iptables installed without nftables, I never disable recommends.
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297[04:09:51] <jak2000> hi all
298[04:10:01] <jak2000> jmcnaught are you there (sorry if ask direct)
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301[04:11:10] <jmcnaught> jak2000: even if I am not here your question is probably still worth asking :)
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339[05:01:23] <TuxCrazy> hello, anyone here using xanmod kernel on Debian 10?
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341[05:02:37] <TuxCrazy> how do xanmod and liquorix kernels affect the battery life on laptops?
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349[05:15:21] <sney> TuxCrazy: apparently there's a #zen-kernel on OFTC where you might find more specific answers, but broadly, custom kernels don't "affect battery life" in a consistent way.
350[05:15:43] <sney> and probably not at all in most cases. unless they did something nutty like disabling cpufreq.
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354[05:17:11] <TuxCrazy> sney, which kernel is better for battery life on laptops? custom kernels or the one that is provided by the distro by default?
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356[05:18:55] <sney> TuxCrazy: I haven't used a custom kernel in about a decade, so I wouldn't know if there are some super special battery optimized builds out there. but battery efficiency is mostly a hardware thing. so again, I doubt there will be much difference at all by using different kernels.
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358[05:19:21] <TuxCrazy> sney, ok
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360[05:21:02] <sney> TuxCrazy: instead, maybe look into tweaking the intel_pstate cpu scaling driver.
361[05:21:18] <TuxCrazy> sney, ok
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371[05:41:30] <sklav> Hi guys can i ask how one enables different schedulers in debian cat /sys/block/sdb/queue/scheduler example only displays [mq-deadline] none
372[05:42:10] <sklav> was expecting more to be displayed example cfq etc..
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508[08:58:01] <leibniz> yoooo
509[08:58:07] <leibniz> can anyone help me set up my ipv6
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511[08:58:11] <leibniz> i'm stupid
512[08:58:15] <leibniz> who's here
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521[09:06:06] <xormor> how come my kernel does not compile? it is missing an assembly file *.s.
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527[09:09:18] <nkuttler> !tell xormor about errors
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531[09:16:08] <Dagger> leibniz: you're more likely to get answers if you ask specific questions, rather than really general ones. noone wants to get involved without knowing what they're getting involved with
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533[09:17:00] <leibniz> no dude i'm just wondering how to setup my ipv6
534[09:17:04] <leibniz> 2607:5300:201:3100:0:0:0:24ca
535[09:17:08] <leibniz> thats my ipv6
536[09:17:11] <leibniz> what's the prefix
537[09:17:19] <leibniz> hmmm
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540[09:19:25] <leibniz> ip addr add 2607:5300:201:3100:0:0:0:24ca/2607:5300:201:3100::::24ca/128 dev eth0
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548[09:27:02] <TuxCrazy> hello, anyone here using liquorix or xanmod kernels on Debian 10?
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550[09:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1156
551[09:29:13] <Dagger> normally it will just autoconfig from the network setup and you won't need to do anything
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553[09:29:19] * Dagger checks whois... oh boy, OVH
554[09:29:58] <themill> TuxCrazy: the answer is not likely to be different from 4h ago
555[09:30:46] <TuxCrazy> themill, lol.
556[09:30:48] <Dagger> well, normally I would say: `ip addr add 2607:5300:201:3100::24ca/64 dev eth0`, but this is OVH so the network may actually be /56
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622[10:24:50] <DrBunsen> Heya all, is there an easy way to test the network latency, jitter and connection speed between 2 systems in the same network?
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631[10:33:20] <ratrace> DrBunsen: with iperf3 maybe?
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633[10:35:40] <simplicius> Hello
634[10:36:03] <simplicius> what's the name of this:
635[10:36:06] <simplicius> data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAP4AAADGCAMAAADFYc2jAAACVVBMVEXOzs709PTR0dHPz8+oqKj8/PzY2NjT09P39/fg4ODDw8Pe3t7W1ta9vb3t7e3b29uzs7OdnZ3l5eXIyMiysrLFwMunp6cAAAC/v787Ozve3OFCQkLv7+8pKSmMjIw1NTUbGxvOytPR0szT0sKAgIAgICBISEhVVVXCvcldXV3j4ebY1dwmJibNydJxcXHS0sRjY2N1e37Nxav58d+mmpSvh2iUkpmpjm53WFPU07m/rok3SHS4o4lUXHaTtLyHpLaasMKxv81xfZb///F/dnjNycN4c4qWeW3NwqRhUGjD3ebf3tObhXZxe4SFiZRrXnWrkXyAaWjH1tFpVV
636[10:36:08] <simplicius> 6BhXvDsqC6v7WDcGfE0d1cbo6HqcVmhJ+/3O7NrpCNc11yj6qtwdSgqLWBTiUqdKmeeFMcNklPTmeIXD1EfKLcvJIOKE6JYzY1Y4osGxYbS4TLxZssCjBWUzTW8vhRSD1nSTVkkrw0MUclNjsMGycAFTUtAwv73rJceYcZABzBlFKFmZ4AAFLp//EAAC6c0Ok9XitdfyZ1fR1+byUtFCgAAB1kUUHFnncAAET67cCQxehDejp0o15TXRNhUQqDYA8LO1dWGgA5AAA2Y1Fpk3iKtYVbNgmARQ1SiYRVUh6NUDE8cYZrMiYVKFtXLmKBPV6VUFkdNmlJE2d+Q3mINUkuKX1zOYFFLnVLHJBaPUtHNlv/+suKr97a8M6prJRdMDRJXYaXqJl5UUlTPDdOXGWSdlG4jI
637[10:36:09] *** Joins: onejukeboksi (~noname@replaced-ip)
638[10:36:10] <simplicius> ygMTCnAADDX165ame8CgDPRTzLlpPgdmnJQTLbu7fuPRnpmYunqnHAAAAYV0lEQVR4nO2di2Max53HV7PrXV4LC7tGECRkA0GRZa8QehDclVgwKxEJMEJexEMS0Dp20rhOKzvpI76qbdq7ntL02rvr9a7XS9tr07s+7DRuUsu5tm5yuf5dN7MLCGFJCAssOeIraTUzO+z8PjuzszOzswPW22tnbPQxlI2x9/ZivR6Tsc94DNVnNHl6MbvJoj2mspjsGHFs6SE/gXFafWeF0mkSYSdn5wQTqZik5TqP72IYm2kva2LPzVXdUrjDxqD0aExr4kjFCfH1JiQMCpg6oPl4wpmcMxng0XEDRpIoFbQhMQon4RYj/RfnAGkyAcwwnyrAsPZLLYEVj9bsYc1OgxLOYYSJJK
639[10:36:12] <simplicius> EZzsGhIRo52yyTeyE0bNG643wivcDPpOOjfHgEbfyLHj5EphIe0b94yRfSyz4+klnik9n2G2GizVC6yoFNWqvHSSoeE6Hik6TRzLPatieMkpCdfCIr5Iza+YW8cWXKlioIaONfXF4puOJJZjiGXPOr+flVUShq9R2replaced-url
640[10:36:12] *** simplicius was kicked by debhelper (flood)
641[10:36:41] <Druid> oops
642[10:38:00] <Haohmaru> bruuuuh
643[10:38:06] <diogenes_> nice architecture.
644[10:40:12] *** Quits: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
645[10:40:46] <petn-randall> hahahaha, wtf
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658[10:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1179
659[10:59:09] <tramplefoot> did that person just dump an entire png image as raw data?
660[10:59:48] <ratrace> where's Sigyn....
661[11:00:07] <hwm4rgs> it's invalid base64
662[11:00:09] *** Quits: zamnedix (~zamnedix@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5+deb4 - ##replaced-url
663[11:00:21] <hwm4rgs> probably not complete, client side flood protection
664[11:00:38] <Haohmaru> client-side!? he was kicked
665[11:00:42] <ksk> I think some clients do that, for him he was just drag&dropping some image.
666[11:00:46] <hwm4rgs> oh, haha
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670[11:04:15] <petn-randall> I wonder what client that was, though. My IRC client can't do that.
671[11:04:32] *** Quits: Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
672[11:04:43] <petn-randall> And I'd be surprised if that "feature" is widespread, because most clients won't be able to make sense of that.
673[11:04:53] <Haohmaru> WeeChat 2.3 (Jan 4 2019 16:06:44)
674[11:05:00] <petn-randall> Might also just be a failed troll attempt, who knows.
675[11:05:03] <joze> google image results are some times base64
676[11:05:11] <Haohmaru> i'd think he copy-pasted some text
677[11:05:28] <Druid> maybe he thought drag drop would give url to us
678[11:05:34] <Druid> but it gave the base64
679[11:05:46] <joze> that's some nasty google image stuff
680[11:06:50] *** Joins: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip)
681[11:06:50] <ratrace> <jackie_chan_meme.jpg>
682[11:06:56] <ratrace> this is how you paste images into irc
683[11:07:29] <Haohmaru> it works with gifs too <magic.gif>
684[11:07:35] <ratrace> yup
685[11:08:05] <ratrace> And it autodetects your password, protects it: *******
686[11:10:15] <themill> looks like hunter2 here
687[11:10:49] *** Joins: EriC^^ (~Eric@replaced-ip)
688[11:10:50] <Haohmaru> i confirm, it looks like ******* here as well
689[11:11:00] *** Parts: EriC^^ (~Eric@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
690[11:12:52] <ksk> ))
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693[11:15:20] <ratrace> right. "11:10 < themill> looks like ******* here"
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695[11:16:46] <Onyx47> you kid, but that would actually be a useful feature, if it were possible... managed to accidentally do that a few times when hitting autotype shortcut in KeePass with wrong window in focus
696[11:16:55] <themill> Why do you all keep writing hunter2 like that. How did you know my password?
697[11:17:09] <Onyx47> wonder if there's a way to tell KeePass to never type in some windows, would be a good feature if not
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699[11:18:07] <Haohmaru> Onyx47 don't type sensitive IRC commands into channel/query windows.. use the Status window (or equivalent), or open a query window with the respective services bot
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702[11:18:54] <jelly> Onyx47: KeePassXC has "use entry title to match windows for global Auto-Type"
703[11:18:56] *** Joins: Emmanuel_Chanel (~Emmanuel_@replaced-ip)
704[11:19:03] <Onyx47> Haohmaru: it wasn't even IRC auth, I have that set up through SASL, I simply clicked on the IRC window on accident before hitting autotype
705[11:19:30] <Haohmaru> turn those automatic sh*ts off then ;P~
706[11:19:34] <Onyx47> jelly: hm, is that per entry or global setting? beccause I didn't notice it, if it's there I should set that up ASAP
707[11:19:51] <jelly> which keepass are you actually using
708[11:19:58] <jelly> Onyx47: it's global
709[11:20:09] <petn-randall> keepass has an autotype feature?
710[11:20:15] <Onyx47> Haohmaru: PEBKAC can still strike, there's no defence against that :P
711[11:20:20] <jelly> there are several keepass forks
712[11:20:23] <Onyx47> jelly: KeePassXC
713[11:20:37] <Haohmaru> hm, i'm using keepassx
714[11:21:04] <jelly> clearly the ones with more letters or numbers appended must be better in some way
715[11:21:18] <Haohmaru> :/
716[11:21:24] <ratrace> Onyx47: irc SASL ftw
717[11:21:39] <Onyx47> ah, I see it, but that means I need to set up those matches per-password... worth it I guess, I only have a few that are not for websites and stuff, and in the browser the extension handles it
718[11:21:57] <shtrb> Wouldn't wayland defend from such actions ?
719[11:22:30] <ratrace> defend from what? copy paste operations between programs? I surely hope it doesn't.... or else...
720[11:22:42] <jelly> autotype is different from copy/paste
721[11:23:02] <shtrb> ratrace, copy/paste itself might be not supported with wayland :P
722[11:23:42] <ratrace> well whatever program implements it, wayland compositors better don't mess with that!
723[11:23:56] <shtrb> it's security !
724[11:24:13] <jelly> Onyx47: there's also a slightly different option right below in the settings perhaps more suitable for your workflow
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726[11:25:19] <jelly> ratrace: if wayland allows for virtual keyboards or other programmed input devs, presumably it can be told to allow using keepass as input dev as well
727[11:26:25] <ratrace> guess so
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732[11:35:57] <Haohmaru> keepassx's password generator is convenient, but sometimes i wish it could be made to generate passwords with words or something that can be memorized..
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735[11:39:45] <leibniz> it worked
736[11:39:57] <leibniz> > /Whois leibniz
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758[11:58:51] <ratrace> how would you test a command that has to be run as a user with no login shell, that has to use passwordless sudo to exec a script....
759[11:59:13] <ratrace> like .... sudo -u userfoo 'sudo /some/script' but eh, that doesn't seem to work as expected
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762[12:00:11] <ksk> ratrace: are you root when invoking this? sudo is not really suited for dropping privs, or so I'm told.
763[12:00:22] <ksk> systemd unit is not possible?
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765[12:01:24] <ratrace> yes I'm root, and I'm dumb.... I gave the sudo command in quotes, like I would with su -c ..... dropped quotes, all works now. thanks 'neway.
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767[12:02:23] <ratrace> systemd unit is not applicable here. it's an unpriv service that has no login shell and I need to give it very constrained access to some privileg actions through a custom passwordless script, but I wanted to test this first
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780[12:18:34] <ratrace> so I don't understand something. when I run on the server sudo -u someuser sudo /some/script , then all works as expected, as the script is allowed with NOPASSWD in a sudoers.d config file
781[12:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1185
782[12:19:13] <ratrace> but... if I run over ssh (with no -t), it complains about no tty present and no askpass program specified. Now, if I add Defaults:someuser !requiretty to sudoers, it still complains like that
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784[12:19:49] <ratrace> what am I missing here.... this sudo crapshit nonsense is getting on my friggin nerves. I TOTALLY understand why Lennart wanted to rewrite this shiz
785[12:20:22] <shtrb> ratrace, some scripts need tools such as dbus session maybe that is what fail for you ? you could even do sudo -u foobar '/bin/bash -c "sudo evilscript"'
786[12:20:38] <ratrace> no, dbus is not involved here
787[12:21:04] <ratrace> the problem is no tty present when the sudo is invoked
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789[12:21:30] <ratrace> it's invoked by a service that's not under my control, so I can't tell it to allocate a pseudotty or sumfin
790[12:21:37] <shtrb> try this evil approach : screen -Dm sudo -u foo /bin/bash -c "sudo evilscript"
791[12:21:45] <ratrace> so I'm testing this no-tty thing via ssh _without_ -t
792[12:21:50] <ratrace> shtrb: no
793[12:22:10] <jelly> ratrace: your outer sudo from you to -u someuser also needs !requiretty
794[12:23:34] <ratrace> jelly: but I tried even disabling requiretty globally
795[12:23:48] <jelly> figure out which sudo complains and why
796[12:24:17] <ratrace> the outer one hmmm
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803[12:27:17] <ratrace> ah bad test case environment used wrong ssh user.... duh
804[12:27:50] <ratrace> okay this won't work. .... any suggestions how to test no-tty invocation of sudo _without_ ssh? :)
805[12:30:53] <afidegnum> hi, what can cause ETIMEDOUT error while transferring bunches of file on pure-ftpd even though Keep-alive commands is being sent?
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814[12:46:41] <ksk> crossposting from ##linux maybe :>
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819[12:53:55] <unixbsd> hello
820[12:54:33] <unixbsd> I would like to write a log line into dmesg, so that somthing shows up in dmesg. is that possible,? like echo blabla >> /.../dmesg
821[12:57:07] <jelly> unixbsd: you'd have to write to /dev/kmsg
822[12:58:40] <ksk> there is also "logger".
823[12:58:54] <unixbsd> jelly: thank you very much !! it is marvellous
824[12:59:05] <unixbsd> echo test >> /dev/kmsg work very well
825[12:59:12] <jelly> logger writes to syslog
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827[12:59:50] <jelly> and systemd journal apparently
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830[13:01:14] <ratrace> which is the proper way to do it, why else would you print(k) into the ring buffer?
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832[13:01:43] <ratrace> ie, you want a kern facility message in the logs, nay?
833[13:02:35] <jelly> it's what they asked. dmesg, not syslog, not journal
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836[13:02:55] <jelly> things don't go from syslog back into kernel
837[13:03:25] <jelly> only systemd abuses that to save its messages _somewhere_ during early userspace
838[13:03:56] <jelly> and if misconfigured, also does that later
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841[13:04:41] <jelly> oh, forgot about priority
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843[13:05:04] <jelly> unixbsd: replaced-url
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845[13:06:32] <jelly> > For correct formatting in the syslog, be sure to add a priority (delimited with angles) and a tag (delimited by a colon). echo '<4>Foo: Message' | sudo tee /dev/kmsg
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847[13:07:06] <jelly> angles!
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855[13:20:48] <unixbsd> it will likely work with /dev/kmsg, I prefer to stay Linux rather than using any systemd. who really knows, systemd is so much making slow the system. maybe in some years debian will realize that and go for openrc. dream among many of us.
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858[13:25:57] <jelly> I haven't noticed anything going "slow", just the opposite
859[13:26:46] <unixbsd> (well, compare slackware with debian... it is with facts, visible. better we dont talk about systemd)
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861[13:27:09] <jelly> I haven't used slackware this century
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863[13:27:27] <unixbsd> ps aux | grep systemd
864[13:28:05] <jim> I haven't either, this is probably unrelated, but I think firefox's memory leaks sometimes take my system all the way down and I have to reboot, but probably has nothing to do with systemd
865[13:28:22] <jelly> I do have a couple Debian 8, maybe 9 running with sysvinit, but they boot slower than systemd ones
866[13:28:36] <jim> unixbsd, could it be you're swapping? check output of free
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868[13:29:45] <unixbsd> I would be curious to test debian, slackware, and a devuan on a raspberry pi zero. good way to investigate the three techs.
869[13:29:55] <xormor> replaced-url
870[13:30:35] <jim> are you gonna run them simultaneously too? :)
871[13:32:43] <jelly> xormor: is there a question hiding behind that image, I don't get it
872[13:33:08] <tarzeau> xormor: but that's just 4 cores you have? 13 year old stuff?
873[13:34:02] <tarzeau> is that disk swap you use? (swapon would tell you) - i prefer zram it's way faster
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875[13:34:34] <tarzeau> and if you say kernels? is that linux kernels? or kfreebsd or something else?
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880[13:37:47] <xormor> tarzeau: from 2013, so it is already 7 years old. this is old technology. from 2013. I am using this, even though I have problems with the old style HDD. it may be that I moved the tower computer so that the needle hit the surface of the HDD or it may be that I used Alt+SysRq+REISUB so it broke a bit, or the HDD may be wearing out. Western Digital Corporation, 1TB in decimal, I think in binary it is 0.9TB,
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882[13:37:53] <oiaohm> tarzeau: that image is a Linux kernel build.
883[13:37:53] <xormor> over 900 gigs.
884[13:38:02] <xormor> tarzeau: Linux kernels.
885[13:38:05] <xormor> oiaohm: right.
886[13:38:16] <oiaohm> The kvm bit is a dead give away.
887[13:38:46] <oiaohm> There are other locations in the build like the drm section picking if it Linux or freebsd get really hard.
888[13:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1192
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890[13:39:12] <tarzeau> xormor: i'm also using a 7 year old machine (32cores, 96 gb mem though :)
891[13:39:47] <oiaohm> The machine I am sitting at is a fair new amd system with 8 cores 16 threads and 32G of memory.
892[13:40:06] <tarzeau> oiaohm: noisy?
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895[13:40:47] <oiaohm> Not that bad. Particularly thinking is a fully open bench.
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897[13:41:09] <oiaohm> and I am still using the stock cooler.
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899[13:42:06] <oiaohm> The noise is not really my biggest annoyance. I hate the RGB puke and the fun to have to turn that off.
900[13:42:33] <tarzeau> oiaohm: i often use a scissor for that (too lazy to power off :)
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902[13:42:58] <ws2k3> i have a weird issue. my /var/lib/apt/lists/partial contains 80 gb of data. can i just delete this?
903[13:43:02] <oiaohm> I am going for a black china made 40 dollar tower coolor to replace the stock cooler.
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906[13:44:04] <jelly> ws2k3: yes
907[13:44:14] <jelly> ws2k3: just run "apt-get clean"
908[13:44:30] <ws2k3> jelly: that does not seem to clean it
909[13:44:35] <jelly> wait, lists/partial?
910[13:44:56] <ws2k3> yes
911[13:45:11] <jelly> sure, delete them. Do you have a really really horrible firewall or proxy somewhere breaking your apt-get update constantly
912[13:46:05] <oiaohm> Just make sure there is not a apt auto update running in background first. basically stop unattented updates.
913[13:46:19] <oiaohm> while you clean it up.
914[13:46:32] <oiaohm> You don't want to be deleteing partials that are wanted.
915[13:47:17] <jelly> eh, just run apt-get update again
916[13:47:49] <jelly> lists, not packages
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943[14:16:51] <rootkea> Hello! I just installed Debian 10.6.0+Xfce and tap-to-click doesn't work. There is 40-libinput.conf in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d. Why it's not in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d and has to copy explicitly? Especially in a freshly installed Debian which has libinput package installed by default and no synaptics driver installed.
944[14:17:26] <rootkea> s/has to copy/has to be copied
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949[14:26:09] <xormor> is "make localmodconfig" a good idea to use in a Debian build of the Linux kernel in a Debian GNU system for a 64-bit Intel desktop tower PC system? I have a memory card reader, several USB ports, a LAN socket and HDMI.
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953[14:27:53] <shtrb> xormor, it depends , you can rebuild a kernel , make a package of it and reinstall, all the devices you had listed already should work out of the box
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995[15:08:31] <unixbsd> Hi, I have a western digital at end of life, i.e. replaced-url
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998[15:09:59] <petn-randall> unixbsd: What does `smartctl -a /dev/sda` output for you?
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1002[15:16:19] <unixbsd> hello this is the output of smartctl : replaced-url
1003[15:17:50] <petn-randall> unixbsd: current pending sector, and offline uncorrectible are two important things here.
1004[15:18:08] <unixbsd> ah. ok.
1005[15:18:28] <petn-randall> unixbsd: current pending sector means that 64507 sectors are currently unreadable, but *could* be overwritten so the firmware reallocates them.
1006[15:18:34] <unixbsd> if i format ext3, maybe it can smart skip them no?
1007[15:18:49] <petn-randall> That being said, with over 64k current pending sectors, that disk is dead.
1008[15:19:12] <unixbsd> really. wow
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1010[15:19:38] <petn-randall> You *could* try to wipe it by overwriting the complete disk with zeroes, but IME that disk is dead if it has more than a few dozen pending sectors.
1011[15:20:07] <unixbsd> i am interested to experiment it a bit this disk to practice FS
1012[15:20:15] <petn-randall> unixbsd: Assuming this is the right disk, `cp /dev/zero /dev/sda` will wipe disk for you, and reallocate those sectors.
1013[15:20:24] <unixbsd> i thought about ZFS that has great fs
1014[15:20:38] <petn-randall> Usually that number climbs as the firmware finds more unreadable sectors.
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1016[15:20:44] <unixbsd> ok, let's go for `cp /dev/zero /dev/sda`
1017[15:20:50] <CrystalMath> unixbsd: that destroys all data
1018[15:21:01] <CrystalMath> just clearing things up
1019[15:21:37] <petn-randall> Yes, that wipe all data on it, but AFAIU the disk has an empty filesystem.
1020[15:21:41] <unixbsd> yeah ok, this is experimental
1021[15:21:44] <petn-randall> *that'll
1022[15:21:55] <unixbsd> I am interested in trying for learning sthg about disks.
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1024[15:22:05] <petn-randall> unixbsd: You can run that on one terminal, and run `watch smartctl -A /dev/sda` on the other.
1025[15:22:15] <unixbsd> i use scren
1026[15:22:23] <unixbsd> e
1027[15:22:27] <petn-randall> But I'm guessing it'll mechanically fail before the wipe command finishes.
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1030[15:24:28] <gpunk> Hi there :) I would like to disable some repos, and do a "downgrade" of the packages ... is it possible "right off the bat" ?
1031[15:24:50] <greycat> If you are even able to CONCEIVE of that question, you already have a frankendebian.
1032[15:25:03] <unixbsd> i believe that if the mbr and table are r/w maybe there are still chances to get a fs to deal with bad sectors
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1036[15:26:19] <gpunk> greycat: very good, now do have an answer I can use ?
1037[15:26:42] <greycat> !don't break debian
1038[15:26:42] <dpkg> rumour has it, dont break debian is replaced-url
1039[15:27:04] <greycat> !downgrade
1040[15:27:04] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
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1042[15:27:06] <gpunk> greycat: then your intervention is useless
1043[15:27:13] <greycat> *plonk*
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1045[15:27:31] <Kurozen> Hello
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1048[15:28:09] <Kurozen> There seems to be 3 ISO DVD files for debian AMD64 release ... how does one suppose to put that on a bootable USB?
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1050[15:28:24] <Kurozen> ... I'll go see the install guide now
1051[15:28:31] <greycat> You only need to boot the first one.
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1054[15:29:10] <greycat> The only reason you'd even *download* the other DVDs (after #1) would be if you plan to do a bunch of offline installations.
1055[15:30:12] <greycat> Offline installations won't give you a working sources.list file, and they won't allow you to retrieve security patches for the packages you're selecting.
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1065[15:37:25] <petn-randall> unixbsd: That's not how it works.
1066[15:38:12] <petn-randall> unixbsd: No fs, nor the kernel, has any knowledge about faulty sectors. That's the job of the firmware to handle that.
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1068[15:38:45] <ratrace> gpunk: here's a usable one: yes. just don't ask how, because that's not supported here, greycat just wanted to save you the time for followup questions.
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1070[15:40:34] <gpunk> ok :) I had the impression that he was a little too much sarcastic, I would had said a big thank to him, if simply answer something like: "no, it is not supported" :)
1071[15:40:53] <gpunk> that's cool no worries :)
1072[15:41:20] <Kurozen> greycat: so 2 and 3 are for additional packages? Cause I'm trying to construct compilation instructions for a project across many distros but it then depends whether it's a full or semi full install
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1074[15:41:54] <ratrace> gpunk: it's not sarcasm, frankendebians are consider a big no-no here. and you posing the question you posed implies you had one there to begin with
1075[15:41:56] <Kurozen> I could just base it on DVD1 and another case for DVD1+2+3 I guess for dependencies
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1077[15:42:11] <greycat> There is no such thing as a "full install" of Debian. When you install, you get the base system, then whatever firmware-type packages the installer thinks you need based on the hardware it detects, and finally you get a menu where you can select "tasks" which are mostly Desktop Environments.
1078[15:42:29] <greycat> Any other packages you want that aren't part of a standard DE task would have to be selected by the user.
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1081[15:44:09] <Kurozen> Allright then I just consider DVD1 as the base mainstream install then that most people do and write a guide based on that. One more question ..
1082[15:44:56] <Kurozen> Does the Live USB boot mode enable everything that an offline install does? I know I have to use TORAM in ubuntu to get access to all programs in live boot, otherwise it's not the full experience.
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1085[15:45:50] <ratrace> Kurozen: I believe in context of your question the netinst does the same thing, only downloads from the net and not from a local mountpoint
1086[15:46:13] <greycat> if you're going to install over and over and over to test things, then having the full DVD-1 might be good
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1089[15:47:12] <Kurozen> greycat: Install over and over again? You mean Debian?
1090[15:49:12] <Kurozen> I would like if it's possible to emulate the same exact experience in a live boot that is possible with the whatever full install debian has, so I don't have to use spare SSDs I have allocated for something else to do this, because I only need to complete a default install/boot and compile an unrelated project and compile it while documenting the process (dnecessary ependencies, configs)
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1092[15:49:16] <greycat> Yes. If that's what you're doing, then having a full DVD image (as opposed to a netinst) is good.
1093[15:49:42] <greycat> I can't answer any of your questions about "live" images. I don't use those.
1094[15:49:46] <Kurozen> Once I'm done I'll be done with debian and onto another distro, me myself I won't need debian installed or anything, it's about making a walkthrough guide for others.
1095[15:50:09] <greycat> If you're only going to install once, then just use the netinst image.
1096[15:50:26] <greycat> You get the same end result, and you'll waste a lot less bandwidth.
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1098[15:51:04] <Kurozen> No, why? Others who will read the compilation guide are debian users, it's meant for most standard debian user, they probably won't have netinst/minimal install, am I not correct?
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1100[15:51:25] <greycat> The image you start from has nothing to do with the set of packages you end up with.
1101[15:51:28] <ratrace> Kurozen: like greycat hinted at, Debian does not have a "live boot [...] full install" like, say, Ubuntu does.
1102[15:51:35] <greycat> What matters is the selection you make in the task menu at the end.
1103[15:51:53] <greycat> If the packages that are needed to fulfill your reauest are on the medium you already have, then it uses those. Otherwise it downloads them.
1104[15:51:54] <Kurozen> The official website states "Any CD or DVD can also be booted from USB"
1105[15:51:57] <ratrace> there's the installer, there's the questions and user choosing them. based on those options, and apt installs later post boot, it may or may not be "full" installation.
1106[15:52:18] <ratrace> %s/choosing/answering/
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1108[15:54:06] <Kurozen> The point is, someone who is a debian user has things installed already, so not going through "choosing process" most likely anymore, unless in some edge case of doing both at the same time, and needs to know ahead which packages to get to compile a project, not waste time figuring it out manually.
1109[15:54:06] <xormor> how I pass an argument to an already running process like "make"? I want to pass the argument "-j4" to it. It is already running.
1110[15:54:26] <greycat> You don't.
1111[15:54:28] <ratrace> xormor: don't think you can
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1114[15:55:16] <greycat> In the specific case of make, you can just kill it (usually by pressing Ctrl-C) and then run it again with the -j4 argument. Make is designed to pick up where it left off.
1115[15:55:35] <greycat> In other cases, what you're requesting is simply impossible.
1116[15:55:52] <Kurozen> But even if the packages are easy to get, I would still like to go through the experience for any other things, I guess it's all about figuring out what the popular debian installs are, or do you guys think they're very inconsistent, like does everyone use netinst and only gets the packages for their niche stuff?
1117[15:56:13] <EdePopede> putting options into a config file and then signal the process to reread it should work in cases i guess
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1119[15:57:53] <greycat> Kurozen: the most popular Debian install will take the default, which is to install GNOME.
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1123[16:02:16] <Kurozen> That's the GUI, what about the default boundled packages?
1124[16:02:34] <greycat> I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Just do it.
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1127[16:03:38] <Kurozen> Allright so I guess, if I use the offline DVD1, and not choose some thing, they don't get used and get left on the USB stick. Yes a valid point for downloading.
1128[16:04:16] <shtrb> Kurozen, you could download more DVD later (if you don't have network acess) and add packages from that dvds
1129[16:04:29] <Kurozen> But the point is, about a baseline "choose" that a debian user that programs C++ and stuff like that, is interested in gaming, would use.
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1132[16:05:51] <shtrb> developing in C++ covers anything from Machine learning to OpenCV to deepfakes to hello world it's bloody everything
1133[16:06:06] <Kurozen> shtrb: The crux of the issue is, yes I could install all 3 DVDs, everything, with all the packages (dependencies) and the project would compile straight on with only 1 or 2 outstanding dependencies, but that is not a realistic case scenario for most debian users that would be reading my compilation guide.
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1135[16:06:43] <shtrb> Don't install , have the packages offline ideling until you learn that you need them
1136[16:07:12] <Kurozen> Then I would write: Hey to complile XYZ project all you need on debian is ffmpeg and qtbase5-private-dev, oktnxybe ... only for cases with DVD1+2+3, probably not for most base installs with netinst/DVD1
1137[16:07:29] <greycat> No, you literally cannot "install all 3 DVDs". It is not an option. It is not possible.
1138[16:07:37] <greycat> There are conflicting packages.
1139[16:08:09] <greycat> The DVDs are just miniature offline repositories of stale packages.
1140[16:08:18] <Kurozen> Wow this is a lot more complicated than I ever imagined :D
1141[16:08:36] <greycat> You only install the things you actually *request*, either by selecting one of the half-dozen things in the installer's tasksel menu, or by running apt, apt-get, aptitude, synaptic, etc.
1142[16:09:11] <shtrb> Kurozen, think of it as having access to the entire British Library , you have no possible way to read everything there , you need to select stuff, a package is like a book, there are more books getting in all the time
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1144[16:09:34] <greycat> Not a perfect analogy, though, because books don't mutually exclude each other.
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1146[16:10:02] <Kurozen> I guess to point out the fundamental goal, is to make the compilation and dev environment setup friendlier to new developers of a project, if they happen to use debian mainly. I'm not currently installing for myself, just trying to replicate.
1147[16:10:02] * ratrace is of an opinion that if you need to write so through guides, and can't rely on your users to know how to install the OS ... they shouldn't be compiling software for it to begin with
1148[16:10:06] <shtrb> Kurozen, when you enter , some people can suggest you books based on your interests (which is the basic stuff) etc
1149[16:10:13] <shtrb> greycat, sorry
1150[16:10:15] <ratrace> so *thorough
1151[16:11:10] <Kurozen> ratrace: No the project does not involve doing debian install at the same time, it has nothing to do with debian setup, only I have to do the setup step because I have no debian at all, just to clear that up.
1152[16:11:11] * shtrb dissagrees with ratrace as he was in the same situation not long ago , you just need to know what the devs need , and prepare a system for them
1153[16:11:23] <greycat> so your devs are monkeys
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1155[16:12:00] <shtrb> greycat, it could be that we do not have all the information , or the policies in place , let us not insult people like that please
1156[16:12:01] <Kurozen> No no, ofcourse the devs usually have to figure out on their own, but if we make it a bit easier, they may not lose the movtivation just getting things setup, is my theory, my own initiative.
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1158[16:12:45] <shtrb> Kurozen, just install all packages which are requried for their work (based on the libs they use and project they use )
1159[16:13:09] <ratrace> handholding users to blindly installing software without understanding what they're doing has created abominations like curl|sudo bash
1160[16:13:20] <ratrace> and if they're "devs", that's way, way, way worse.
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1162[16:13:47] <Kurozen> I've started using Kubuntu for my secondary dev environment, I had trouble compiling for the first time as expected, I looked in the project's Wiki and it was quite outdated so I took the time to improve tips for other distros as well :
1163[16:14:17] <shtrb> ratrace, we do not know his system , let us not jump to conclusions
1164[16:15:39] <ratrace> there's no jumping to conclusions. it's one thing to detail what "the system" needs in terms of software or hardware dependencies, and quite another on detailing how to install the whole OS on which you want to use that
1165[16:15:41] <shtrb> Kurozen, will the devs have access to internet later ? just give them preferred IDE (vim :P ) , the selected compilers , the packs required by your environment to build your system , docker etc
1166[16:15:52] <Kurozen> The devs are unknown, the public, the project is an opensource thing on github, ... is it not obvious what I'm talking about? Sorry if I assumed then.
1167[16:16:11] <shtrb> ratrace, let us take it to #d-o
1168[16:16:26] <ratrace> Kurozen: it's even worse then that you have to explain soemeone how to installd debian in order to use your software
1169[16:16:28] <shtrb> *debian-offtopic
1170[16:16:32] <greycat> Kurozen: just figure out what your build dependencies are and put them in the README.
1171[16:16:54] <greycat> Kurozen: e.g. "for Debian, before compiling, run apt install build-essential libncurses5-dev"
1172[16:17:15] <ratrace> it's one thing to write a guide on how to get the sources for your software from github, how to get the dependencies etc.... and generally, how to do things _after_ the user has made ~/dev/yoursoftware and wants to unpack the sources and build it there
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1174[16:17:31] <shtrb> Kurozen, your project should not requrie people to have a definite setup , just have build instructions (better build a deb package directly ) and requierd stuff
1175[16:17:41] <Kurozen> ratrace: No, you're misunderstanding, perhaps I did not come here explaining it well enough, explaining the debian setup process is NOT part of the guide, that's only for me to setup debian in order to go and try compiling that project myself and to SEE how it's like, and document any issues.
1176[16:17:42] <ratrace> yup.
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1179[16:18:13] <Kurozen> That's why I talked about setup, since I never installed debian before
1180[16:18:44] <ratrace> Kurozen: get the netinst iso or dvd1, "burn" it onto a stick, boot into it, choose a desktop if you want it, when it askss, wait for completion, reboot, enjoy.
1181[16:18:53] <Kurozen> Well I think I did once only to make it boot, super brief, 3-4 years ago, testing a multi-boot USB at the time.
1182[16:19:05] <shtrb> grab the disk , burn it , insert it into your DVD drive , reboot , enter UEFI , enable boot from DVD , and follow the on screen instrutions
1183[16:19:40] * ratrace hasn't seen a DVD drive in many many many years. Can't even remember how they look.
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1185[16:19:50] <shtrb> Kurozen, for a usb , it's enough to just dd the image (netinstall) onto the key , as the images are already hybrid mode , nothing special there
1186[16:19:52] <n4dir> they look like CD drives
1187[16:20:22] <Kurozen> Allright, I think I get it now, the way debian comes it seems it has 2 major ways of doing things, netinst like you mentioned and DVD1 and I'll try to use defaults or "dev stuff" and create 2 versions of the guide then, that should cover a lot of users.
1188[16:20:31] <shtrb> ratrace, 5 1/4" :P
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1190[16:21:05] <Kurozen> Yeah I do mean a DVD image + USB when i say "DVD"
1191[16:21:05] <n4dir> netinst and DVD installations only differ in the way they offer the packages to be installed. The installer is the same
1192[16:21:45] <Kurozen> n4dir: Yeah that's the extra bit, I'll keep that in mind and if it's too similar I'll avoid making 2 versions then.
1193[16:22:13] <n4dir> and as far i remember tasksel during installation doesn't have dev stuff (ssh, cups, whatnot, but no development tools. )
1194[16:22:13] <wrksx> I thought you were not documenting the install process
1195[16:22:26] <Kurozen> Okay okay, thanks for now everyone :) So we did manage to get to the bottom.
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1198[16:22:52] <n4dir> there are dozens of installation guides out there, with and without pictures. Usually knowing the enter key is sufficient though
1199[16:22:52] <Kurozen> wrksx: You are correct, I am not. Only the "Compile XYZ PRoject, do this do that, install dependencies, etc"
1200[16:23:47] <Kurozen> It never had anything to do about debian setup it self. I only had to talk about that to figure it out for myself.
1201[16:23:53] <wrksx> Kurozen: okay, I don't want to drag the conversation further if u don't want to, but I didn't get what are going to be the 2 versions of the documentation
1202[16:24:38] <Kurozen> wrksx: Oh, one for netinst and one for DVD1 ... if they differ in their finall install, but as others say they kinda don't, I'll see.
1203[16:24:57] <Kurozen> But not the debian setup, the project's compilation under that debian installation.
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1205[16:25:33] <wrksx> Kurozen: okay then. I also think you'll end up with a single version anyway
1206[16:25:50] <n4dir> Many assume the netinstall installation would be more small by some sort of magic. No idea who came up with that myth, but it is wide spread
1207[16:26:00] <wrksx> since it's the same system...
1208[16:26:11] <Kurozen> Yeah, it looks like it, it's better, less work anyway.
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1210[16:26:25] <hop> no, it doesn't look like it, it _is_
1211[16:27:17] <Kurozen> Okay, got it. I did read many pages, I did see some words mentioning "minimal"
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1213[16:27:22] <wrksx> Kurozen: are you trying to not list dependencies that might be already installed on a "standard" debian system
1214[16:27:34] <wrksx> whatever "standard" means in that context
1215[16:27:45] <wrksx> ?
1216[16:28:09] <greycat> "Standard" does not include any dev tools, so you'll need to list build-essential and then all of *-dev packages. That's all. It's not hard.
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1220[16:30:17] <Kurozen> wrksx: Exactly, I may perhaps be doing it the wrong way trying to only state which ones aren't included, I guess I should just state everything that is needed irrespective of being already installed/boundled
1221[16:30:26] <hop> the usual problem with such install guides is not the list of dependencies, but the integration into how things are handled in a debian system
1222[16:30:36] <greycat> 10:16 greycat> Kurozen: e.g. "for Debian, before compiling, run apt install build-essential libncurses5-dev"
1223[16:31:01] <greycat> figure out what *-dev packages are required, add build-essential
1224[16:32:38] <Kurozen> Things may still differ from Ubuntu and others, I heard Ubuntu does some "splitting", so this isn't the only reason I'm doing this, there could be other issues, just to clear that up, it shouldn't be for nothing, even if there is not much difference, it is worth it, to make sure and check there is nothing different!
1225[16:33:20] <hop> after that, any software that can't cope with `./configure --prefix=/usr/local/stow/$PACKAGE; make; make install` is broken, anyway ;)
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1227[16:33:27] <Kurozen> Because right now, the Wiki states "Debian Based (debian, ubuntu, etc") all in one
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1230[16:34:12] <Kurozen> I doubt this is still true, that it applies to these distros exactly the same.
1231[16:34:29] <n4dir> i for one wouldn't assume that Ubuntu has different *dev packages required than debian.
1232[16:34:34] <ratrace> the "debian based" concept is very much misunderstood and a lot of people think it's all just one and the same system
1233[16:34:58] <ratrace> while all it really means is "we took some .debs from Debian and ran!"
1234[16:35:02] <hop> what software are we even talking about, have you mentioned?
1235[16:35:08] <n4dir> but then: i don't even read Readmes. I just wait which missing stuff i run in and then go for it
1236[16:35:09] <wrksx> maybe you can get get away with a few notes for specific distros
1237[16:36:02] <Kurozen> Hmmm so I had an idea, which brushed my mind earlier but I forgot, in order to figure out what would be absulute all packages needed to compile, I would intentionally need to create the most minimal stripped down install possible, no?
1238[16:36:25] <Kurozen> Or is there some utility/script to monitor what the compilation requires ?
1239[16:36:36] <n4dir> as greycat has stated above a default installation has no dev stuff whatsoever
1240[16:36:51] <ratrace> it's a good approach and starting with a debootstrap'd container somewhere sounds like ideal solution
1241[16:37:05] <Kurozen> Or .. manually inspect CMakeLists.txt, well, would probably not work for all distros, and time consuming, right?
1242[16:37:13] <hop> nobody who runs a stripped down system needs such a detailed installation guide
1243[16:37:20] <n4dir> i always forget the name of the debian package which gives you exactly that bootstrap.
1244[16:37:25] <n4dir> for building packagaes
1245[16:37:39] <greycat> I mentioned it a few times already. build-essential
1246[16:37:50] <Kurozen> n4dir: Sure, but the project does require some packages without -dev suffix so it's not all about -dev packages.
1247[16:37:51] <n4dir> i meant for the bootstrap, greycat
1248[16:38:01] <ratrace> debootstrap ?
1249[16:38:03] <n4dir> build-essential should be clear by now, i hope ...
1250[16:38:25] <n4dir> ratrace: no, it is only there to build packages. Let me ask the web ... i hoped someone would know
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1252[16:38:30] <greycat> if you're talking about schroot and stuff, I do not know those
1253[16:39:00] <Kurozen> Allright so I guess I wouldn't need to list any dependencies part of build-essential which any new developer would know about and have installed.
1254[16:39:20] <hop> Kurozen: don't guess, listen
1255[16:40:17] <n4dir> pbuilder
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1257[16:40:48] <n4dir> replaced-url
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1259[16:42:08] <Kurozen> Allright, I'll check everything, I'll take a break and when I'm in the process I'll visit back if necessary, thanks.
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1308[17:18:15] <PipeItToDevNull> ulimit is messing with deluge on my machine, no fixes I put in place have worked. Can I disable ulimit?
1309[17:18:29] <greycat> you can run it, yes
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1311[17:19:07] <greycat> if you run "deluge" from an interactive shell, you can run ulimit in that shell first, then run deluge
1312[17:19:19] <greycat> if you run "deluge" from a shell script, you can run ulimit first in that shell script, before running deluge
1313[17:19:36] <greycat> if you run "deluge" from a systemd unit, then you don't use the ulimit shell command, but rather the systemd equivalents
1314[17:19:44] <PipeItToDevNull> It is running as a systemd service `deluged -d` basically
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1316[17:19:58] <greycat> so put the appropriate resource limit declarations in the unit
1317[17:19:59] <PipeItToDevNull> I will check out how to do it for systemd
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1319[17:20:09] <PipeItToDevNull> Would that go in the .service file?
1320[17:20:21] <greycat> did you write the service file? if so, yes.
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1322[17:20:37] <greycat> is it one supplied by Debian or a vendor? if so, no, you use an override snippet
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1324[17:21:14] <ratrace> actually you can copy the whole .service into /etc/systemd/system/ and customize it. override snippets don't always work for all use cases
1325[17:21:18] <ratrace> meanwhile: replaced-url
1326[17:21:27] <greycat> you can, but it's not the best way
1327[17:21:37] <ratrace> it's the best way to get 100% control over the unit
1328[17:22:13] <ratrace> otherwise you have to keep in mind what is overrideable and what is compoundable and clear it out first, blah blah blah, and then if the vendor supplied unit changes in unexpected ways, everything breaks
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1331[17:22:45] <ratrace> I mean.... it's fully supported way to manage the unit, having a whole copy in /etc/systemd/system/ . snippets are just different use case
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1334[17:24:06] <jelly> ratrace: that has the same problem as using single config files instead of .d/ snippets, you don't get new versions when distro fixes something in the default file
1335[17:24:21] <ratrace> note that unlike the shell init scripts of the old days, which were not indented for the sysadmin to mess with them, systemd units are declarative config files which ARE intended to be messed with, if vendor defaults are insufficient. meaning, if you provide the whole unit yourself, instead of overriding vendor's, it's very much supported
1336[17:24:50] <jelly> supported by you
1337[17:24:54] <ratrace> jelly: more or less, I agree. and that's not wrong or bad per se. may or may not be what you want.
1338[17:25:12] <ratrace> jelly: supported by systemd with its specific ordering of directories it looks up for config
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1340[17:25:30] <jelly> sam as if you had added ulimit -n 4096 into the init script.
1341[17:25:47] <ratrace> as an example, instead of managing 187622348927329 dovecot/conf.d stupidities, I manage a single dovecot.conf, automated with ansible and controlled with group and hostvars
1342[17:26:04] <jelly> ratrace: well it would be really silly if /etc did NOT override builtin defaults
1343[17:26:06] <ratrace> it is not wrong, or bad. just a paradigm and pattern which is very much acceptable.
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1345[17:26:41] <PipeItToDevNull> I made it 'infinity' so lets see what do
1346[17:27:07] <jelly> again, it's acceptable for your use case, where you don't care about what distro defaults are
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1348[17:27:28] <ratrace> distro defaults are usually wrong and bad
1349[17:27:30] <jelly> I try to rely on the distro more and avoid replacing whole configs
1350[17:27:58] <ratrace> QED many of the systemd service units are half-assed because of debian's policy to support multiple inits, thus it can't by default take advantage of the whole featureset.
1351[17:28:14] <ratrace> also... nginx systemd unit using start-stop-daemon? Imma outta words! mind == blown.
1352[17:28:29] <jelly> so, a feature for some, and a bug for others
1353[17:28:33] <ratrace> indeed.
1354[17:29:14] <jelly> (ok, that nginx thing sounds really silly)
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1356[17:29:41] <ratrace> so bottom line, systemd drop-in overrides is a good idea, keeping in mind overrideables vs compoundables; but it is NOT bad idea to use whole unit in /etc/
1357[17:30:14] <jelly> by that logic, it's not a bad idea to manage your own init script
1358[17:30:31] <jelly> it has serious consequences.
1359[17:30:37] <ratrace> systemd units ARE config files. init scripts are programs
1360[17:30:46] <jelly> and also config files.
1361[17:30:54] <ratrace> they're literal, shell executable turing complete programs.
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1363[17:31:40] <ratrace> jelly: well not really, but they DO source from /etc/default/ so kinda. I do remember having FUN times having to overwrite the uwsgi shell scripts because they were borked to hell and back back on wheezy and methinks even jessie
1364[17:32:34] <ratrace> somuchso that I ran supervisord instead of using distro defaults, to keep some level of sanity . then I started using it for more than just uwsgi.... and then systemd happened, and I was thrilled. delighted. so much time saved, so much power gained.
1365[17:33:23] <jelly> a lot more verbose to config than daemontools, but does the job well
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1370[17:35:26] <jelly> I wouldn't advice replacing the whole file just to put a LimitNOFILE= or whatever
1371[17:35:35] <greycat> That.
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1406[18:04:57] <ratrace> yeah, but saying "no" to "would that go in the .service file" is wrong advice.
1407[18:05:17] <ratrace> %s/wrong advice/factually incorrect/
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1409[18:05:36] <greycat> "Don't edit /lib/systemd/system/deluge.service" isn't wrong advice.
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1411[18:06:08] <greycat> 11:20 PipeItToDevNull> Would that go in the .service file?
1412[18:06:08] <greycat> 11:20 greycat> did you write the service file? if so, yes.
1413[18:06:14] <greycat> 11:20 greycat> is it one supplied by Debian or a vendor? if so, no, you use an override snippet
1414[18:07:10] <ratrace> go ahead and *plonk* me, I missed that context :)
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1425[18:13:20] <Robby> override snippet? how exactly does this work? I know you can take the Debian-supplied .service file, copy it over to somewhere in /etc and make your custom changes to it and reload systemd
1426[18:14:03] <Robby> but won't that custom .service file being there override the Debian-supplied one completely? even if you wanted to do only a one-line change?
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1428[18:14:21] <imMute> Robby: given //lib/systemd/system/foo.service you can make a file called /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/Robby.conf and the two will get merged together
1429[18:14:29] <Robby> ah
1430[18:14:35] <Robby> thats cool
1431[18:14:40] <Robby> good to know, thank you :)
1432[18:15:16] <imMute> Robby: replaced-url
1433[18:15:20] <ratrace> Robby: systemctl edit foo.service will precreate those files for you
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1435[18:15:26] <ratrace> (and open in the $EDITOR)
1436[18:15:34] <imMute> ratrace++ # handy to know
1437[18:15:51] <Robby> thank you imMute and ratrace
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1457[18:30:42] <jelly> Robby: to make things more interesting, some config lines in systemd units override previous values, some append. Using the same Key=value syntax.
1458[18:31:17] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
1459[18:31:18] <Robby> ugh
1460[18:31:51] <Robby> so theres some 'gotchas' too, to it
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1462[18:32:23] <jelly> you want to make a custom command line for your service? First need to "wipe" it by setting to empty, which is another special syntax
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1465[18:33:54] <jelly> so, say, telling snmpd to start with -LS6d instead of -Lsd ... replaced-url
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1467[18:34:24] <jelly> is not really much easier or nicer than editing /etc/default/snmpd was, before
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1470[18:34:55] <Robby> I see
1471[18:35:03] <Robby> yea that makes sense then
1472[18:36:16] <ratrace> that applies only if you do override snippets. a whole .service unit under /etc/systemd/system/ is a single whole
1473[18:36:29] <ratrace> (btw, those are overrideables vs compoundables I spoke of earlier)
1474[18:40:13] <jelly> and you can't tell which are which!
1475[18:40:54] <jelly> unless you recurse into man pages, or ask on #systemd like I did after spending half an hour
1476[18:41:41] <jelly> because... same syntax for assigning as for appending to existing value.
1477[18:41:46] <greycat> ExecStart= is a trap, yeah. But it's the only one I know of that works that way.
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1479[18:42:13] <jelly> it bloody well should not be = but .= or +=
1480[18:42:29] <Robby> that would make things more obvious, yes
1481[18:42:44] <jelly> and it should error out if someone does =. Of course that will never be changed.
1482[18:43:28] <jelly> so in 10 years, systemd will have about the same amount of idiosyncrazies as your init scripts of old
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1484[18:43:48] <jelly> and someone will make a new, learn, more consistent thing
1485[18:43:57] <jelly> lean*
1486[18:44:40] <n4dir> again a neverending flamewar? uff
1487[18:44:53] <jelly> it's not a flamewar if everyone agrees
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1489[18:45:42] <n4dir> didn't work well last time, iirc
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1491[18:46:10] <ratrace> I agree tho, systemd has a lot of shortcomings, but it's the best processmanager slash init that we have so far
1492[18:46:12] <greycat> "everyone agrees" is one of those oxymoron phrases
1493[18:46:37] <n4dir> ratrace: i sure can't compare the 5 or 6 i know of
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1495[18:49:41] <jelly> ratrace: I'm just amazed at the shortsightedness of "everything will be easy and simple" from upstream. It's still the best thing we have right now, and actually uses linux features from this decade.
1496[18:52:20] <ratrace> jelly: and I'm amazed they haven't painted themselves in the corner with all the service unit dependency an ordering keywords so nobody went "Uh-uh, we didn't think this through, guys!"...... yet....... YET......
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1498[18:52:44] <jelly> but we didn't need a new one, runit could have been extended just a bit and separate tiny tools used for socket activation, tcp mgt, limits, cgroups
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1504[18:55:59] <roycroft> hello, folks
1505[18:56:15] <roycroft> i am thinking about getting a new laptop and running debian on it
1506[18:56:25] <roycroft> 2020 may finally be the year of the linux laptop :)
1507[18:56:56] <roycroft> i have some mac os apps that i'd like to run, and some windows apps that i need to run on the machine
1508[18:57:06] <roycroft> i'd prefer not to invest in vmware workstation
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1510[18:57:19] <jelly> you can't run OSX apps natively, or without a VM
1511[18:57:22] <roycroft> does virtualbox or some other freely-avalable hypervisor work decently?
1512[18:57:50] <jelly> (and running a hackintosh in a VM may or may not be liked by the vendor)
1513[18:57:55] <roycroft> i've been using vmware fusion on my macs for many years, and that's worked out brilliantly
1514[18:58:14] <roycroft> mac os apps are not necessary
1515[18:58:21] <roycroft> it would be nice, but by no means essential
1516[18:58:27] <jelly> windows will run in KVM
1517[18:58:29] <roycroft> the windows apps are essential to run, though
1518[18:58:42] <jelly> that's the native virtualization on linux
1519[18:58:53] <roycroft> i use that on my proxmox machines
1520[18:58:57] <roycroft> i'm familiar with kvm
1521[18:59:20] <jelly> several frontends exist, I don't know which are nice
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1523[18:59:37] <roycroft> but on the pve machines the guest os can only run in a virtual console
1524[18:59:53] <roycroft> and there's no direct interaction between the guest and the host
1525[19:00:38] <roycroft> with vmware fusion i can run guests in full screen mode at the native resolution
1526[19:00:59] <roycroft> and i can also share resources with the host (mac os) - network, shared folders
1527[19:01:18] <roycroft> i'm sure i can do all of that with vmware workstation
1528[19:01:39] <roycroft> but it sounds like that's something you don't do, and so can't answer definitively
1529[19:02:01] <jelly> vmware player is free to use; I have no idea how it's crippled, but try a KVM gui fronted first
1530[19:02:14] <roycroft> i can do some more research - i was just being lazy and wondering if someone here has such an environment already and can comment on it :)
1531[19:02:40] <roycroft> i do have an old netbook with linux mint on it currently
1532[19:03:03] <roycroft> it's old and slow and certainly not capable of running reasonably with a hypervisor
1533[19:03:10] <roycroft> but it may be good enough for a proof of conceptr
1534[19:03:21] <roycroft> and i can scrub mint and install stock debian on it
1535[19:03:37] <roycroft> it was just being used as an octoprint server until i got a rpi for that
1536[19:03:42] * jelly fires up virt-manager to find Fedora 17 and some... Debian kfreebsd, but apparently his current Intel CPU is not compatible with previous Intel CPU that ran these VMs
1537[19:04:13] <ratrace> roycroft: proxmox's idea of virtualization is not really the poster child of what qemu-kvm can do on linux
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1539[19:04:37] <roycroft> i know that, ratrace
1540[19:04:41] <gpunk> Hi, I have a package that wont install because of a non absolute path name of a conffile ... how can I tell apt/dpkg to "remove" it from the "queue" ?
1541[19:04:58] <roycroft> i'm only reporting my limited experience with virtualization on linux
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1543[19:05:24] <roycroft> what pve does is almost completely unrelated to what i need to do with this laptop
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1546[19:06:47] <jelly> gpunk: dpkg --remove packagename
1547[19:07:27] <jelly> gpunk: won't affect apt's state though. Can you show actual output and the full command line?
1548[19:07:30] <jelly> !paste
1549[19:07:30] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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1551[19:07:36] <jelly> !basic apt troubleshooting
1552[19:07:36] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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1555[19:08:32] <gpunk> dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/kolab-freebusy_1.1.2-0~kolab3_all.deb (--unpack): conffile name 'etc/kolab-freebusy/config.ini' is not an absolute pathname , thank you jelly
1556[19:08:32] <dpkg> gpunk: That isn't an error, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
1557[19:09:15] <ratrace> and the bot strikes again.
1558[19:10:09] <ratrace> does it really bother nobody else that it responds to anything other than "!" . is starting a sentence with "dpkg" REALLY that uncommon in a debian-specific support channel, so the bot is made to trigger on that too?
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1571[19:18:01] <hop> dpkg is my favourite tool to make ratrace mad
1572[19:18:02] <dpkg> hop: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
1573[19:18:16] <hop> works fine, from what i can see
1574[19:18:27] <hop> even has the sarcasm down pat
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1576[19:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1208
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1581[19:21:45] <ratrace> one day that'll backfire and then I'll !pal
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1584[19:23:07] <ratrace> dpkg: right?
1585[19:23:07] <dpkg> right, (adj): 1) The opposite of left. 2) What cafuego says.
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1592[19:33:20] <jelly> dpkg, botsnack
1593[19:33:21] <dpkg> thanks, jelly
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1596[19:35:20] <jelly> gpunk: that's not the whole output and I don't see the full command line, so I have to take a guess. run "dpkg --configure -a" "apt-get -f install" to let dpkg and apt clean up what they can, then apt remove that particular package name
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1598[19:36:01] <gpunk> ok, I'll see thanks again
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1600[19:36:25] <jelly> gpunk: if you wan't to install it, repack the .deb somewhere and edit DEBIAN/conffiles to make the path(s) absolute
1601[19:36:29] <jelly> want*
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1605[19:37:48] <chakpapa> I just shifted a production workstation from CentOS to Debian Stable to see how feasible it is. I have just one question. Is it recommended to keep this repository active? replaced-url
1606[19:37:56] <chakpapa> I want maximum stability
1607[19:38:17] <chakpapa> Or is it better to turn it off, and stick to point to point releases with "Security Updates"?
1608[19:38:20] <jelly> gpunk: roughly, inside fakeroot or as root (but do it inside fakeroot!): dpkg --extract /var/cache/apt/archives/kolab-freebusy_1.1.2-0~kolab3_all.deb tmpdir; dpkg --control .../kolab...deb tmpdir/DEBIAN; edit tmpdir/DEBIAN/conffiles; dpkg-deb -b tmpdir .
1609[19:38:53] <jelly> !buster sources.list
1610[19:38:53] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
1611[19:39:11] <jelly> chakpapa: ^ keep all of those.
1612[19:39:36] <Brigo> chakpapa, they are for importan bug correction package updates. Suit yourself
1613[19:39:38] <chakpapa> jelly, alright thanks. I just wanted to know the defaults people use when they use "Stable". I performed an "Expert Install" so I didn't know the defaults.
1614[19:40:02] <chakpapa> Brigo, got it. I will keep that one then. Backports I don't need so I am keeping it off
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1616[19:40:42] <jelly> chakpapa: even if you disable buster-updates, you're going to get most in not all of those on the next point release anyway
1617[19:40:53] <Brigo> it is sensible if you want stability
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1619[19:41:04] <chakpapa> Got it
1620[19:41:35] <jelly> it's usually quite fine to keep those enabled on a workstation
1621[19:42:22] <chakpapa> For how long does a Debian Stable release is supported? I mean full cycle. Will it keep receiving at least "Security" updates once it is off of Maintenance by the Debian Stable team? I am looking for 5 years at least
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1624[19:43:57] <n4dir> from stable it goes to old-stable, so that are at minimum 4 years. But who knows
1625[19:44:20] <roycroft> you want a lts release
1626[19:44:32] <roycroft> debian releases are supported for five years
1627[19:44:41] <roycroft> replaced-url
1628[19:44:44] <chakpapa> Yes as LTS and unmoving (with critical security updates) as posible
1629[19:44:53] <chakpapa> Thanks
1630[19:44:54] <jelly> chakpapa: one year after release+1 is out is when Debian Security Team stops the support. That's about 3 years or so. Right now, that's when LTS Team takes over, with a reduced set of packages and architectures, and they keep things running until the 5 year point.
1631[19:44:55] <roycroft> everyone who wants to know knows
1632[19:45:53] <jelly> roycroft: LTS Team is an effort separate from Debian Security support, and exists only because of sponsors.
1633[19:45:58] <ratrace> "critical" is a bit open to interpretation, but yes, in general, they do
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1635[19:46:28] <jelly> there is no "lts release" in Debian
1636[19:46:28] <roycroft> correct
1637[19:46:32] <greycat> roycroft: "you want a lts release" doesn't mean anything. Every Debian release enters an LTS phase after a few years.
1638[19:46:43] <roycroft> yes, that was worded poorly
1639[19:47:04] <jelly> unlike Ubuntu, which carefully labels specific releases as LTS
1640[19:47:53] <ratrace> some would argue that Ubuntu LTS is "the" ubuntu release, and the rest are beta, dev, testing, in-between releases.
1641[19:47:55] <jelly> chakpapa: sponsoring LTS is recommended if you want it to keep existing
1642[19:48:02] <ratrace> (some, among the some, are the devs themselves)
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1652[19:53:05] <Akuw> i am looking for a video editing software, i installed Lightworks and OPenshot, but i wanna try another options
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1657[19:55:45] <jmcnaught> Akuw: kdenlive, pitivi, kino, blender also has video editing I think.
1658[19:56:03] <Akuw> thanks
1659[19:56:34] <ratrace> cinelerra!
1660[19:57:04] <ratrace> and OBS? or is that only for vid/pod/casting?
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1666[19:58:34] <ahylight> Hello
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1668[19:58:46] <ahylight> Does anyone have experience with Samba's smb.conf?
1669[19:59:26] <sney> !anyone
1670[19:59:27] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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1672[19:59:59] <ahylight> I have shared a folder with Samba, but when I connect to it, it asks a user/password login
1673[20:00:13] <ahylight> Here is the smb.conf: replaced-url
1674[20:00:32] <ahylight> How to do a share without any password, and no login requirement?
1675[20:00:33] <greycat> gnerally you need to set up your Samba passwd database before trying to use it from clients
1676[20:00:57] <ahylight> yes I did: sudo smbpasswd -a user
1677[20:01:00] <greycat> oh, you want *guests*? I don't know; look for "guest" in the docs or ask #samba or wait for someone who knows Samba guest stuff
1678[20:01:16] <ahylight> ohh yes guests
1679[20:01:31] <ahylight> greycat, i thought "public" would do it, but you're right, it might be named "guests"
1680[20:01:37] <sney> samba guest access is funky. it is better to just use a user/password. make the password 1234 or whatever
1681[20:01:59] <ahylight> sney, i want my local TV etc. to access it, and there is no login system
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1683[20:02:06] <ahylight> so I need a plain open Samba share
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1686[20:02:30] <sney> oof, from an embedded device even. best to ask in #samba in that case
1687[20:02:31] <greycat> "my local TV etc" is sketchy as hell
1688[20:02:58] <greycat> they seem to imply that *lots* of devices all work *identically* which is ... sketchy as hell
1689[20:03:27] <ahylight> haha, yes, i'm curious if it'll work :)
1690[20:03:41] <greycat> so you're just making shit up
1691[20:03:48] <gpunk> Thank you jelly, the conffile in DEBIAN had a poopoo in it :p
1692[20:04:10] <n4dir> Akuw: most are mentioned already, but anyway replaced-url
1693[20:04:51] <greycat> Wow. German is freaky.
1694[20:04:56] <n4dir> haha. Indeed.
1695[20:05:33] <n4dir> Akuw: they talked quite a bit about Davinci Resolve (proprietary) in #ardour the other day. But as i am not in such i didn't listen. They considered it good, it seems
1696[20:05:38] <greycat> Had to ask google to translate that for me, because I could not figure out what "video bear baiting" would actually be... (the translation from google is "video editing")
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1698[20:06:20] <n4dir> greycat: i wouldn't link to a german site, but the german ubuntu wiki has nice lists of software for everything (and the package names suffice, i hope)
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1700[20:06:34] <jelly> ahylight: your TV is more likely to read files from a DLNA server than from samba
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1702[20:06:53] <ahylight> jelly I think both, I'll try
1703[20:07:12] <jelly> ahylight: mediatomb or minidlna are examples of dlna file servers
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1762[21:02:05] <oft_gegong> so does Debian have its own source code versions that house what gets updated with the package upgrades? Do we do that with bugzilla or something?
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1767[21:03:11] <imMute> oft_gegong: yes, Debian keeps copies of the source code for every package.
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1769[21:03:33] <imMute> they're in "source packages" which you can download from the APT repos
1770[21:03:56] <oft_gegong> but it's weird though. Only certain patches are allowed in.
1771[21:04:04] <oft_gegong> at least for stable
1772[21:04:17] <imMute> right, Debian wants to keep the stable releases, well, stable.
1773[21:04:51] <oft_gegong> but how do we know what bugs are allowed fixable in stable?
1774[21:05:11] <oft_gegong> critical bugs and security updates?
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1777[21:06:07] <imMute> oft_gegong: I'm not sure if/where it's defined. security updates for sure. not sure about functionality bugs though.
1778[21:06:39] <imMute> typically those don't even get into stable - if a package has critical feature bugs, it's dropped from the project before the first release of a given stable version.
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1781[21:07:38] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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