People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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1 [00:02:08] <jmcnaught> kulak: I do not know for sure, systemctl(1) does not say. I think it is physical memory used because other references to memory accounting in systemd.resource-control(5) like MemoryHigh= say "a percentage value may be specified, which is taken relative to the installed physical memory on the system."
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19 [00:23:04] <jhutchins> kulak: Do you have swap enabled?
20 [00:23:30] <kulak> I am not sure. how do I check it?
21 [00:23:55] <kulak> well, I run this "ps -U prod -u prod -o user,pid,sz,vsz,rss,trs,args". I am just trying to make sense of the output.
22 [00:23:59] <greycat> free, swapon
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25 [00:25:53] <kulak> swap is not enabled
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27 [00:26:16] <kulak> total used free shared buff/cache available
28 [00:26:18] <kulak> Mem: 2011540 191200 183620 19472 1636720 1620952
29 [00:26:20] <kulak> Swap: 0 0 0
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33 [00:27:16] <kulak> hmm, It appears that I have only 183MB free.
34 [00:27:24] <jhutchins> kulak: Then what could it be besides physical memory?
35 [00:27:54] <kulak> postgresql database is probably taking more than I want it to use.
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38 [00:29:25] <jhutchins> kulak: Realistically, with the const of RAM these days, you shouldn't spend time worrying about it.
39 [00:29:53] <kulak> jhutchins: good point
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42 [00:31:30] <greycat> you WANT "free" to be a small number, because that means you've filled up memory with useful stuff like cached files
43 [00:31:50] <greycat> if a program needs more memory than what is "free", the kernel can drop some cached files instantly
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46 [00:32:09] <kulak> greycat: I see. It makes sense. cache is 1.6Gi and 1.5Gi is available. That's good.
47 [00:32:37] <kulak> I have plenty of RAM :)
48 [00:33:30] <tomreyn> replaced-url
49 [00:33:42] <jhutchins> I think it's been five years since I heard of people talking about new storage structures for databases that were all RAM. I've not heard much since.
50 [00:33:56] <kulak> jhutchins: thanks
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82 [00:58:30] <trysten> jhutchins: I am also confused by alex's suggestion. venv doesn't manage versions, it uses the one it's running on (I thought)
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85 [00:59:03] <greycat> *you* manage the versions by deciding what gets installed into each venv
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92 [01:01:51] <sorcerer> i wonder if i can use debians buster backports in MX Linux to install the latest plasma since i cant upgrade from regular buster ports
93 [01:02:05] <greycat> *plonk*
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96 [01:02:57] <petn-randall> sorcerer: Who knows? It's not supported, and if it breaks anything, you get to keep both pieces.
97 [01:03:07] <sorcerer> lol
98 [01:03:17] <petn-randall> !frankendebian
99 [01:03:17] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
100 [01:03:35] <sorcerer> i may test on my laptop since i just install MX on there, most thats gonna happen is it will break and ill have to install again
101 [01:03:43] <sorcerer> but nothings customized yet so i wont lose anything
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104 [01:09:13] <petn-randall> sorcerer: I mean, it might not break *now*. But might do so next month. So it's still a bad idea.
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110 [01:16:22] <sorcerer> its not in the backport gui manager, id have to manually do it from terminal
111 [01:16:24] <sorcerer> so i wont
112 [01:16:26] <sorcerer> lol
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122 [01:23:14] <alexrelis[m]> I am having a really strange problem. When I boot my system, I keep getting stuck on a busybox prompt.
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125 [01:24:50] * alexrelis[m] sent a long message: < replaced-url
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136 [01:30:24] <alexrelis[m]> I tried using a chroot and Debian's rescue mode but I still had trouble.
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149 [01:45:16] <alexrelis[m]> I think it has to do with the fact that I have a luks encrypted volume and initramfs isn't able to find my root fs because it doesn't have the necessary modules to decrypt. Wild guess, but that's the best I got at this point.
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153 [01:49:40] <jmcnaught> Was it booting before?
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163 [01:59:31] <alexrelis[m]> [jmcnaught](replaced-url
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166 [02:03:04] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: I do not know how that might cause this, but have you been able to boot froma USB or something and decrypt and mount the root filesystem?
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168 [02:04:15] <alexrelis[m]> [jmcnaught](replaced-url
169 [02:05:02] <alexrelis[m]> I am able to mount and chroot /, but initramfs doesn't detect it.
170 [02:06:45] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: check the UUID for root-fs with blkid and see if it matches /etc/fstab
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172 [02:06:56] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: also check if cryptsetup-initramfs is installed
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178 [02:10:28] <alexrelis[m]> [jmcnaught](replaced-url
179 [02:10:44] <alexrelis[m]> And how could I change it?
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181 [02:11:11] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: look at /etc/fstab
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185 [02:13:07] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: actually / is probably not mounted with a UUID in fstab if you are using luks
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187 [02:14:09] <leoni> I am a weeb.
188 [02:14:09] <alexrelis[m]> [jmcnaught](replaced-url
189 [02:14:23] <leoni> Is that bad?
190 [02:14:30] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: you have no separate /boot?
191 [02:14:43] <alexrelis[m]> [leoni](replaced-url
192 [02:15:15] <alexrelis[m]> [jmcnaught](replaced-url
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194 [02:16:03] <alexrelis[m]> I actually tried to install grub and /boot on a separate flash drive to see if that would work but I have the same problem.
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199 [02:17:36] <jmcnaught> alexrelis[m]: I do not know how to do full drive encryption with encrypted /boot, I always just use the encrypted+LVM guided partitioning in the debian-installer, which has unencrypted /boot
200 [02:21:08] <alexrelis[m]> Darn. I really have no idea how to fix this.
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208 [02:26:43] <ThothCastel> debian buster audio stopped working
209 [02:26:50] <ThothCastel> need to watch training
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212 [02:28:53] <jmcnaught> What program are you using?
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226 [02:42:41] <alexrelis[m]> I FIXED IT! BOO YAH!
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237 [02:53:14] <Lady_Aleena> jelly, jhutchins; sorry I haven't been around. The only genealogy program I know of is gramps.
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242 [03:04:38] <oxek> If anyone here uses wireguard, what do you use to visually keep track of whether you're connected or not? I'm on debian with xfce.
243 [03:06:06] <Unit193> I use WireGuard as a VPN for the vLAN support basically, I can re-route but it's mainly just to link systems. For actual VPN support, I have a (terrible) network-manager plugin that works and puts a little lock icon on the panel.
244 [03:06:31] <oxek> I get that little lock icon when using openvpn with network manager
245 [03:06:40] <oxek> but network manager on debian stable does not support wireguard
246 [03:07:04] <oxek> what network manager plugin do you use?
247 [03:07:37] <Unit193> network-manager-wireguard, but it was created before NM got wireguard support soo..I'm not really recommending it.
248 [03:08:49] <oxek> NM only got support for wireguard in the version that's in debian bullseye
249 [03:09:14] <Unit193> If you'd like to ignore my warning, I do actually have it personally packaged if you know how to build those.
250 [03:09:33] <oxek> I respect your warning
251 [03:09:51] <oxek> I can live without a GUI indicator, but feel uneasy without it
252 [03:14:27] <Unit193> replaced-url
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257 [03:18:41] <oxek> I'm looking through the issue reports, releases and commits, and I see why it would not be recommended.
258 [03:19:08] <oxek> given that NM has native support for wireguard, this plugin seems to not be focused on
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260 [03:19:42] <Unit193> Indeed, though I have yet to see a better option.
261 [03:20:39] <oxek> I guess I can rely on wireguard's functionality that it has a built-in "kill-switch"
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264 [03:21:11] <oxek> so I don't necessarily need a GUI indicator. I just need to check that wg has been successfully connected at start, and then all should be good
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289 [03:35:28] <Buliarous> does anyone have suggestion for debugging network slowness with a debian on bare metal machine? Every other machine on my network has no problems but the debian desktop has intermittently slow network connections (ssh/browsing/etc)
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300 [03:51:10] <ChmEarl> Buliarous, your /etc/hosts should have an entry for your hostname (127.0.1.1). If it doesn't you get slow
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326 [04:23:53] <Buliarous> ChmEarl: so I've got that entry, any other ideas? I'm about to wipe the machine and install fedora at this point
327 [04:23:58] <Buliarous> lol
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329 [04:25:05] <jmcnaught> Buliarous: do you have any messages in dmesg or journalctl about missing firmware for your NICs?
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339 [04:45:39] <WillPittenger> What is Wayland?
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342 [04:46:16] <jmcnaught> Wayland is a replacement for X.
343 [04:46:23] * WillPittenger uploaded an image: image.png (32KiB) < replaced-url
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348 [04:47:44] <jmcnaught> WillPittenger: you can choose the type of session when you log in. Log out of GNOME, and while logging back in click the gear icon beside the "Sign In" button, choose "GNOME on Xorg".
349 [04:48:18] <jak2000> anyone can help me with this error: replaced-url
350 [04:48:20] <WillPittenger> OK. Is Wayland experimental or something? Why does Debian default to it?
351 [04:48:45] <hl521> Hey what's up. I can't seem to ping my debian server for some reason, but I'm able to ssh in, and nmap it. Additionally, I'm able to ping literally every other device on the network. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a setting on debian that blocks ICMP or something?
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353 [04:49:07] <jmcnaught> WillPittenger: it is not experimental, but it is newer. Not being able to run Synaptic under Wayland is mentioned in the buster release notes I am pretty sure.
354 [04:49:42] <WillPittenger> Isn't Synaptic the graphical package manager for Debian?
355 [04:50:16] <jmcnaught> It is a graphical package manager. There is also gnome-software, and KDE's is called Discover I think.
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357 [04:50:35] <jmcnaught> Most here will probably recommend that you use apt on the command line instead of synaptic.
358 [04:51:05] <jak2000> Package python3-venv is not available, but is referred to by another package.This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, oris only available from another source E: Package 'python3-venv' has no installation candidate
359 [04:52:11] <jmcnaught> ,i python3-venv
360 [04:52:13] <judd> Package python3-venv (python, optional) in buster/amd64: pyvenv-3 binary for python3 (default python3 version). Version: 3.7.3-1; Size: 1.2k; Installed: 11k; Homepage: replaced-url
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362 [04:53:33] <jmcnaught> jak2000: can you make a paste of "head -n -0 -v /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}" ?
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364 [04:54:37] <jak2000> replaced-url
365 [04:55:46] <jmcnaught> jak2000: have you done "apt update" on this system? "/msg dpkg bat" for more info to provide.
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367 [05:05:20] <jak2000> replaced-url
368 [05:05:52] <jak2000> cant do an apt update
369 [05:05:53] <jak2000> why?
370 [05:07:18] <jmcnaught> Is another apt process running? Odd that you have buster sources and /etc/os-release is stretch.
371 [05:08:04] <jak2000> yes
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373 [05:08:40] <jak2000> yes, strange
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375 [05:09:34] <jak2000> replaced-url
376 [05:09:45] *** Quits: auk_ (auk@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
377 [05:11:32] <jak2000> restarting the server
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380 [05:17:52] <jak2000> same error after restarting...
381 [05:18:49] <jmcnaught> Is apt running again?
382 [05:20:34] *** Quits: Guest45790 (~nyov@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
383 [05:20:42] <jak2000> replaced-url
384 [05:22:17] <jmcnaught> jak2000: systemctl status 1639
385 [05:23:48] <jak2000> replaced-url
386 [05:24:22] <jmcnaught> jak2000: you have some webmin thing running apt in the background
387 [05:24:36] <jak2000> can we uninstall webmin
388 [05:24:39] <jak2000> snt importante
389 [05:24:56] <jmcnaught> It is not my server…
390 [05:25:05] *** Quits: braingain (~telnet@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
391 [05:25:07] <jak2000> apt remove webmin?
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393 [05:25:37] <jmcnaught> I do not know what the webmin package would be called because it is not part of Debian.
394 [05:26:08] <jmcnaught> jak2000: just stopping its service would be enough for now though
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401 [05:31:24] <jak2000> removed and work apt update
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403 [05:33:03] <jmcnaught> Looks like that system has other issues, like is it stretch or buster?
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409 [05:49:55] <jak2000> jmcnaught: replaced-url
410 [05:49:58] <jak2000> not progress
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423 [06:26:44] <ChiLLabiS> Can i use Debian?
424 [06:28:38] <jmcnaught> Yes.
425 [06:28:43] <ChiLLabiS> Thank you
426 [06:28:44] <ChiLLabiS> :)
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429 [06:29:46] <ChiLLabiS> I'm currently running Debian in WSL on Win10
430 [06:30:07] <ChiLLabiS> I kinda miss the whole operatingsystem
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437 [06:34:51] <ChiLLabiS> jmcnaught: What's your favorite DE/WM?
438 [06:34:56] <derpadmin> how's WSL ChiLLabiS ?
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442 [06:35:03] <jmcnaught> ChiLLabiS: GNOME is the best by far.
443 [06:35:12] <ChiLLabiS> I like GNOME 3
444 [06:35:25] <ChiLLabiS> derpadmin: WSL is just the terminal
445 [06:35:37] <ChiLLabiS> Linux terminal in Windows
446 [06:36:44] <ChiLLabiS> XFCE is also kinda cool where you can change themes and other stuff more easily
447 [06:36:52] *** Quits: DadropheniaM (~Dadrophen@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
448 [06:36:54] <derpadmin> I did not ask what, I meant... how is it? never gave it a shot...
449 [06:37:05] <ChiLLabiS> It's all right
450 [06:37:16] <ChiLLabiS> i'm running irssi on it chatting here with you
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455 [06:39:19] <ChiLLabiS> just textbased stuff works
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460 [06:40:39] <ChiLLabiS> I haven't gotten version 2 to work tho
461 [06:42:33] <ChiLLabiS> even eggdrop works
462 [06:44:30] <derpadmin> if I get my hand on a window license, I might give it a try
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464 [06:45:53] <ChiLLabiS> There are cheap ones. I bought a licence for my laptop some months ago for like $25
465 [06:46:26] <ChiLLabiS> Home-edition tho
466 [06:46:55] <ChiLLabiS> I just googled
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469 [06:47:34] <ChiLLabiS> I guess there are pro-versions too
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472 [06:51:23] <ChiLLabiS> But i would recommend to buy retail
473 [06:51:51] <jmcnaught> I recommend Debian 10.
474 [06:52:06] <ChiLLabiS> Hehe
475 [06:52:15] <ChiLLabiS> That's what i'm about to install soon
476 [06:52:25] *** Quits: nickname123 (~nickname1@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
477 [06:53:01] <ChiLLabiS> jmcnaught: I think the dude might wanna game
478 [06:53:15] <ChiLLabiS> derpadmin: Or?
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480 [06:53:46] <derpadmin> I am not gaming
481 [06:53:51] <ChiLLabiS> okok
482 [06:53:54] <derpadmin> currently running debian
483 [06:53:58] <derpadmin> coding is my game :)
484 [06:54:14] <ChiLLabiS> But IF you get a license then?
485 [06:54:16] <derpadmin> (I know, I should get a life)
486 [06:54:38] <derpadmin> If I get a license, I will have an extra useless windows vm/pc
487 [06:54:58] <ChiLLabiS> Hehe ok
488 [06:55:02] <derpadmin> will make a powershell script lol
489 [06:55:17] <ChiLLabiS> I'm not good at scripting at all
490 [06:55:29] <derpadmin> I had a cool one to scan the wifi
491 [06:55:34] <ChiLLabiS> I only know some linux stuff but when it comes to Windows im all noob
492 [06:55:42] <derpadmin> it sent me alerts when an unknown mac was on my wifi
493 [06:56:09] <ChiLLabiS> cool
494 [06:56:38] *** Quits: Hokedli (~laslie@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
495 [06:58:07] <ChiLLabiS> Kali-Linux got a WSL on Win10 too. Speaking of haxing
496 [07:04:36] <ChiLLabiS> Damn now i dont know which DE to choose
497 [07:05:00] <ChiLLabiS> GNOME is good, XFCE is kinda cool for themes and stuff...
498 [07:06:47] <derpadmin> went back to kde after years
499 [07:06:51] <derpadmin> can't complain
500 [07:06:59] <ChiLLabiS> I like KDE too
501 [07:07:11] <ChiLLabiS> Maan... this is hard to choose
502 [07:07:48] <derpadmin> you can make yourself nice scripted notifications with kde :P
503 [07:08:10] <ChiLLabiS> that's like elite stuff for me
504 [07:08:20] <ChiLLabiS> All my scripts is just commands
505 [07:08:27] <ChiLLabiS> kinda amature
506 [07:08:38] <ChiLLabiS> but i havn't learned anything else
507 [07:08:47] <ChiLLabiS> maybe i should read some books or something
508 [07:09:18] <derpadmin> meh
509 [07:09:25] <ChiLLabiS> Google helpted me with my scripts tho
510 [07:09:30] <ChiLLabiS> helped*
511 [07:09:47] *** Quits: CrystalMath (~coderain@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Save The Planet, Kill Yourself! ##replaced-url
512 [07:10:33] <derpadmin> /usr/bin/kdialog --passivepopup "your notification here" --icon /home/$USER/path/path/image.jpg
513 [07:11:04] *** PRINTS is now known as prints
514 [07:12:13] <ChiLLabiS> What's the code for pointing the issue/alert to that command then?
515 [07:12:20] <ChiLLabiS> Might be some more troubles
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517 [07:14:24] <ChiLLabiS> I'm useless at this
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520 [07:19:15] <derpadmin> ChiLLabiS, a couple of things use it...
521 [07:19:29] <derpadmin> when you click a certain image on the net, it pings me
522 [07:19:37] <roycroft> chillabis - this book is excellent:
523 [07:19:43] <roycroft> replaced-url
524 [07:19:43] <ChiLLabiS> Ah ok
525 [07:19:51] <derpadmin> and when I start my visual firewall script
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528 [07:20:58] <ChiLLabiS> Kinda cool derpadmin. There's something for everything on Linux
529 [07:22:53] <ChiLLabiS> What's the best distro for an amature like me? Not Ubuntu
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531 [07:23:49] <jmcnaught> I recommend Debian 10.
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535 [07:24:25] <ChiLLabiS> I like Debian. But i don't know what i'm allowed to use.
536 [07:24:37] <ChiLLabiS> packages and stuff
537 [07:24:40] <ChiLLabiS> apps you know
538 [07:24:57] <jmcnaught> I do not know what you mean.
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540 [07:25:53] <ChiLLabiS> There's always some troubles when i install stuff. Programs that doesn't work on all fetures and stuff
541 [07:26:06] <ChiLLabiS> features*
542 [07:26:13] <jmcnaught> Do you do silly stuff like disabling recommends?
543 [07:26:23] <ChiLLabiS> Nope
544 [07:26:39] <ChiLLabiS> i usually have the --use-recommends flags
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546 [07:26:53] <ChiLLabiS> sorry
547 [07:26:58] <ChiLLabiS> --install-recommends
548 [07:27:21] <jmcnaught> Installing recommends is the default behaviour.
549 [07:27:28] <ChiLLabiS> Ah ok
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552 [07:29:00] <jmcnaught> !why debian
553 [07:29:00] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
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556 [07:30:04] <jmcnaught> If you have trouble with missing features in a program or something specific and you are using Debian you can get help here.
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559 [07:30:19] <ChiLLabiS> Okay thank you
560 [07:30:41] <ChiLLabiS> Sorry for discussing other stuff
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562 [07:32:01] <jmcnaught> ChiLLabiS: there is a #debian-offtopic channel if you feel like chatting. Some friendly people there.
563 [07:32:38] <ChiLLabiS> Okay thanks
564 [07:35:40] <ChiLLabiS> Well my Linux m8s doesn't answer me... This feels like dejavu
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567 [07:36:16] <ChiLLabiS> Might to be too early tho
568 [07:36:28] <ChiLLabiS> They started a "new" channel here
569 [07:36:31] <ChiLLabiS> on freenode
570 [07:36:35] <ChiLLabiS> #linuxkompis
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572 [07:37:20] <ChiLLabiS> Kinda good channel tbh
573 [07:37:35] <ChiLLabiS> For Linux enthusiasts in Sweden
574 [07:41:02] <ChiLLabiS> jmcnaught: Do Huawei laptops work good on Debian?
575 [07:41:05] <ChiLLabiS> Or Acer
576 [07:42:44] <jmcnaught> ChiLLabiS: Debian works on computers that other Linux distros work on because they use the same kernel. Brand new hardware can sometimes have problems on Debian stable if it was released after, but newer kernels are available in backports.
577 [07:43:25] <ChiLLabiS> Ah okay thank you for the answer!
578 [07:43:41] <ChiLLabiS> Looking at to buy a "new" laptop
579 [07:44:28] <ChiLLabiS> But yeah now when you mention it. Backports repo is kinda good to ahve
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581 [07:44:31] <ChiLLabiS> have*
582 [07:45:00] <jmcnaught> I buy used (off-lease) ThinkPads that are about three years old when I get them. By that time the Debian support for them is great. They might be a little difficult to get during the pandemic though.
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584 [07:46:28] <ChiLLabiS> Ah okay, I've seen some older hardware on a salessite for used stuff. But i'm not that good at resetting the computer
585 [07:46:43] <ChiLLabiS> to factorysettings
586 [07:48:32] <ChiLLabiS> I bought a used computer some years ago and that screen was messed up. it's too bright. Don't know how to reset it or if it's the acctual hardware that's off
587 [07:49:23] <ChiLLabiS> But with that laptop i go for brand new instead. Since i don't know so much about computers
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593 [08:00:29] <ChiLLabiS> Lost my connection
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595 [08:00:46] <ChiLLabiS> Might have missed something if you guys wrote something
596 [08:01:00] <trysten> nope.
597 [08:01:04] <ChiLLabiS> ok good
598 [08:01:24] <ChiLLabiS> trysten: How's Debian working for you then?
599 [08:01:39] <trysten> come to #debian-offtopic
600 [08:01:45] <ChiLLabiS> okay
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705 [10:06:58] <iamjfk11> hi
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710 [10:12:50] <Rodon> is pulsemixer in debian is just different name of pamixer found in other distros? i am about to use a pulse volume script which has dependency of pamixer. i dont find any "pamixer" in offical buster repo..
711 [10:13:23] <Rodon> i am using it on dwm statusbar
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714 [10:16:47] <diogenes_> it's pavucontrol?
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717 [10:18:33] <Rodon> noo... pavucontrol is gtk..
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721 [10:19:10] <ratrace> I think there's several PA based mixers available
722 [10:19:29] <ratrace> yeah:
723 [10:19:32] <ratrace> ,i pulsemixer
724 [10:19:34] <judd> Package pulsemixer (sound, optional) in buster/amd64: command-line mixer for PulseAudio with a curses interface. Version: 1.4.0-1; Size: 15.2k; Installed: 95k; Homepage: replaced-url
725 [10:19:45] <ratrace> ,i pamix
726 [10:19:46] <judd> Package pamix (sound, optional) in buster/amd64: Pulseaudio terminal mixer based in pavucontrol. Version: 1.6~git20180112.ea4ab3b-3; Size: 42.0k; Installed: 146k; Homepage: replaced-url
727 [10:19:48] <Rodon> pulsemixer is ncurses that i use generally ..
728 [10:19:57] <ratrace> ,i pavucontrol
729 [10:19:58] <judd> Package pavucontrol (sound, optional) in buster/amd64: PulseAudio Volume Control. Version: 3.0-4; Size: 123.2k; Installed: 929k; Homepage: replaced-url
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753 [10:48:38] <jelly> judd: file bin/pamixer
754 [10:48:43] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
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761 [10:57:46] <Rodon> i fixed it using pulusemixer commands within script...so its working fine ..
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771 [11:06:48] <jak2000> hi all
772 [11:07:01] <jak2000> replaced-url
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782 [11:19:46] <n4dir> jak2000: is it temporary, or you got the problem all the time?
783 [11:20:21] <Brigo> jak2000, i would guess the server is in the middle of a package update.
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786 [11:24:38] <jak2000> ok, wait, take time, please, :)
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833 [11:58:05] <jak2000> same position :(
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860 [12:18:19] <dirdi> Hi there, sometime when I resume from suspend the media keys (like lower volume, brightness etc.) of my keyboard stop working. xev does not recognize any key stroke. When I restart X, or un- and replug the keyboard, everything is back to normal. I do not use a DE but i3. Since it does not happen always, there seems to be some race condition. Anybody got an idea what could cause this behavior?
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864 [12:28:13] <Janni> Hi there. I'd like to connect via ssh to some server as root. But I'd like to use another user's credentials for this. Is this possible?
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866 [12:28:40] <Janni> To be more clear: I'm not connecting to a root account, but I'm logged in as root locally.
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869 [12:30:06] <dirdi> Janni: Sure, this is possible: ssh -i /home/otheruser/.ssh/id_rsa remoteuser@remotehost
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871 [12:31:45] <Janni> Thanks!
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877 [12:39:35] <arahael> dirdi: Full marks for being tactful.
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891 [12:51:45] <dirdi> arahael: ty =)
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916 [13:21:52] <shtrb> wayland is really the default in buster ?
917 [13:22:51] <diogenes_> shtrb, only for DEs that support it (for Gnome yes, not sure about others).
918 [13:23:21] <shtrb> thanks diogenes_ !
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920 [13:24:23] <shtrb> lol , and debian wiki rely on Arch wiki :D
921 [13:25:25] <jelly> arch wiki is excellent
922 [13:26:05] <nkuttler> yeah they really *need* good documentation
923 [13:26:54] <shtrb> I know , and I'm envious of their greate wiki , Debian wiki should had such good text first :)
924 [13:28:10] <marc36> or have the rolling-release hipsters work for us gratis and reuse their excellent doc
925 [13:29:09] <ratrace> it's all the same software anyway
926 [13:29:39] <ratrace> maybe in different places and different defaults in debian, but in the and, same thing.
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928 [13:31:13] <diogenes_> The reason why Achwiki has such a detailed wiki is because Arch is vanilla linux where you have to configure almost everything yourself and in Debian, almost all works out of the box, especially if you use a non-free firmware ISO.
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930 [13:31:56] <dob1> why it wants to install apache2 if I just need php and I have nginx instlaled?
931 [13:34:19] <dob1> maybe I have to install php-fpm
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933 [13:35:02] <H4ndy> Yes, install php-fpm and not the apache module
934 [13:35:29] <jak2000> replaced-url
935 [13:35:47] <dob1> well I would try ctrl-c
936 [13:35:52] <dob1> and re-launch it
937 [13:36:03] <azeem> jak2000: probably a networking issue on your side and/or somewhere in-between
938 [13:36:12] <dob1> or change mirror
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940 [13:36:51] <jak2000> how to?
941 [13:37:30] <dob1> you have to find another one, they are listed on debian.org and modify /etc/apt/source.list
942 [13:39:06] <shtrb> ratrace, some configuration options would be different , some paths would be different , some packages would be missing etc etc etc
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946 [13:44:25] <jak2000> cat: /etc/apt/source.list: No such file or directory
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948 [13:44:52] <shtrb> *sources.list (you have a typo)
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950 [13:45:15] <tarzeau> is there some multicolor image vectorizing software? i couldn't find any (potrace seems to be black/white) autotrace not longer available?
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952 [13:47:03] <jak2000> my sources.list: replaced-url
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954 [13:47:46] <themill> ,v engauge-digitizer
955 [13:47:47] <judd> Package: engauge-digitizer on amd64 -- jessie: 5.2-1; stretch: 9.7+ds.1-1; buster: 10.10+ds.1-1; bullseye: 10.10+ds.1-1+b2; sid: 10.10+ds.1-1+b2
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957 [13:48:03] <themill> tarzeau: ^^ I don't recall how well it handles colour images
958 [13:48:58] <tarzeau> themill: interesting, but not quite what i was after for: replaced-url
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973 [14:04:59] <themill> tarzeau: perhaps you can describe what you're wanting to do some more -- that's pretty much what potrace/autotrace are
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975 [14:06:13] <tarzeau> themill: i have an image that i want to vectorize, but it's not a graph like the examples of engauge-digitizer addresses
976 [14:06:35] <tarzeau> potrace seems limited two 2 colors, and engauge limited to graphs. autotrace is not available anymore
977 [14:06:47] <themill> what does vectorise mean for a random pixel image?
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979 [14:07:23] <tarzeau> the result is a vector format like svg, instead of a raster image that i give as input
980 [14:08:06] <tarzeau> i have a 3 color image that i want to vectorize: replaced-url
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982 [14:08:36] <H4ndy> did you try Inkscape? I like it's tracing functions
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984 [14:09:17] <tarzeau> H4ndy: is based on potrace, i failed to get linked image vectorized
985 [14:09:34] <tarzeau> feel free to take a copy, and fix my PEBKAC (i'd be glad, but of course nobody must)
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990 [14:17:28] <themill> the edge detection method worked pretty flawlessly here
991 [14:17:33] <Devastator> any eta about debian-next?
992 [14:18:12] <themill> Devastator: freezing in January replaced-url
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995 [14:19:20] <H4ndy> tarzeau: with color or without?
996 [14:19:49] <Devastator> themill thank you, rather fast
997 [14:19:58] <Schrostfutz_> Hi, I maintain some nodes that are currently always running and people SSH into them to do simulations. I'd like to save some power by suspending the machines when they are idle and transparently wake up via WoL with Unicast. I haven't been able to find a nice way to detect idleness, except for writing it myself. Do you know something like this that I might have overlooked? I only found suspendatnight, but that has fixed times and
998 [14:19:58] <Schrostfutz_> does not react to usage.
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1000 [14:20:24] <tarzeau> H4ndy: with
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1002 [14:20:51] <tarzeau> themill: i must be doing something wrong, so you used that thing you suggested? /me tries
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1004 [14:21:28] <themill> tarzeau: I used inkscape
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1006 [14:22:56] <themill> ,i autosuspend
1007 [14:22:58] <judd> Package autosuspend (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: daemon to suspend a system in case of inactivity. Version: 2.0.4-1; Size: 66.6k; Installed: 501k; Homepage: replaced-url
1008 [14:23:13] <themill> Schrostfutz_: ^^ perhaps? (I don't know the package but it sounds like what you want)
1009 [14:23:19] <tarzeau> themill: i start inkscape, import the image, it's still raster, then path/trace bitmap
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1012 [14:23:35] <Schrostfutz_> themill: Thanks
1013 [14:26:21] <themill> also, the nodes on your cluster are idle? you need to poke your users to do more work.
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1015 [14:27:23] * themill is used to them being 150-200% oversubscribed
1016 [14:28:00] <Schrostfutz_> themill: :D I'm the user that's procrastinating my actual work by optimizing the infrastructure....
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1018 [14:28:24] <themill> heh
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1022 [14:29:54] <kryl> hi, is there a way to list "all sub commands" inside a service like restart start, reload ... etc... ?
1023 [14:30:08] <kryl> I use systemd by default to manage the daemons
1024 [14:31:36] <Schrostfutz_> kryl: Aren't all possibilities listed on the systemctl manpage? Or are you asking for a query for what a specific service supports?
1025 [14:32:15] <kryl> Schrostfutz_, exactly I'm asking for specific service supports
1026 [14:32:33] <kryl> and I'm wondering there is a way to list the subcommands directly with systemd tools like systemctl ?
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1029 [14:33:29] <Schrostfutz_> kryl: I don't know about that, but for the only use-case I can imagine, reloading when possible, else restarting, there is 'reload-or-restart'
1030 [14:33:39] <Schrostfutz_> Maybe that's your use-case as well?
1031 [14:34:47] <kryl> ok
1032 [14:35:04] <kryl> but if I manage my service I can create new ones ;-)
1033 [14:35:18] <themill> actions tend to be supported via a fallback if they are not explicitly included
1034 [14:35:42] <kryl> or not ?
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1038 [14:37:06] <Schrostfutz_> kryl: You mean if you write your own systemd service file?
1039 [14:38:26] <kryl> yes
1040 [14:38:29] <kryl> exactly
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1043 [14:43:01] <H4ndy> tarzeau hmm the tracing is a bit annoying to deal with because it will create full paths for outlines instead of a proper object with a stroke and fill 🤔
1044 [14:43:39] <Schrostfutz_> kryl: Afaik the possible interactions with a service are well defined by systemd. You can look up a list of possible commands on the manpage of systemctl. Note that most require no specification or cooperation from the service, e.g. freeze, or stop: By default, it will just kill the process it started previously, the specific means depend on the type of service you wrote.
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1047 [14:44:20] <tarzeau> H4ndy: yes
1048 [14:44:22] <kryl> Schrostfutz_, that's more clear like that. Thank you
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1050 [14:45:52] <Schrostfutz_> kryl: np. For more details you'd need to elaborate on your use-case. I recommend also reading systemd.service(5), and the #systemd channel will probably be able to help with this better.
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1053 [14:47:44] <kryl> Schrostfutz_, I will one more time thank you for your help ;)
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1074 [15:04:32] <H4ndy> tarzeau: replaced-url
1075 [15:04:42] <H4ndy> it's not perfect but also did not require too much manual cleanup
1076 [15:05:45] <H4ndy> I'd say for this specific image a manual re-trace is the better work flow
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1082 [15:08:42] <tarzeau> H4ndy: it looks surprisingly good!
1083 [15:09:04] <tarzeau> H4ndy: and you did all that with just inkscape+potrace?
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1085 [15:09:16] <H4ndy> Inkscape only, yes
1086 [15:09:19] <H4ndy> replaced-url
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1089 [15:10:07] <H4ndy> "Remove background" got rid of the color fringing then I only had to create some color rectangles to "fill" everything again and apply a cut mask
1090 [15:10:18] <tarzeau> H4ndy: very cool thanks! i will try that with 4 scans, stack+remove background
1091 [15:10:43] <H4ndy> just load the SVG from my share into Inkscape and explore layers
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1094 [15:11:33] <tarzeau> H4ndy: i can see a single layer, and ungroup the thing :)
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1096 [15:12:00] <tarzeau> did you do the colorization or it was automatic?
1097 [15:12:19] <H4ndy> without "remove background" it would be automatic but ugly
1098 [15:12:29] <H4ndy> I create a few rectangles and used the color picker from the source image
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1100 [15:12:52] <tarzeau> very cool, many many thanks for these tips!
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1103 [15:14:44] <H4ndy> np :)
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1109 [15:17:45] <H4ndy> I keep the file share up for a day or two if you need to re-download
1110 [15:18:31] <danuan> devuan user , but wondering if debian allows packages like firefox to self auto-update outside of package management ?
1111 [15:21:37] <ksk> danuan: firefox-esr has kind of a special status, it is allowed to change within a Debian release.
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1113 [15:21:58] <ksk> but no, not outside package managment as far as I know.
1114 [15:24:00] <danuan> so if i as a devuan user firefox self-update happened because devuan devels gave it more permissions after forking off debuan ?
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1118 [15:27:30] <jmcnaught> danuan: firefox self-updating is disabled in Debian, and the firefox-esr is updated like all other packages via APT/dpkg.
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1123 [15:30:09] <ksk> danuan: we really cannot tell why devuan does what devuan does, please refrain from asking about it in here.
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1125 [15:30:12] <ksk> !devuan
1126 [15:30:13] <dpkg> Devuan (replaced-url
1127 [15:30:32] <jelly> danuan: firefox will autoupdate if you install from mozilla's tarball, otherwise a firefox running as user cannot possibly update files installed as root
1128 [15:30:57] <jelly> I have no idea what devuan does, you'll have to ask them.
1129 [15:31:33] <jelly> (it's unlikely they'd go out of their way to break the package like that, but who knows)
1130 [15:31:45] <danuan> sssure i was asking if debian would allow such things ( being a long time debian user up untill a certain point )
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1135 [15:33:06] <danuan> which based on their ideals i do not think they would , but it did happened in last few days and i am trying to track down why it it .
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1137 [15:34:05] <jelly> debian doesn't do that
1138 [15:36:06] <danuan> so that is a guarantee that debian would never allow a package self-auto-update and someone after forking did ?
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1147 [15:44:36] <jelly> danuan: there's no guarantee, but it would be a bug and not something done intentionally
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1153 [15:47:34] <jelly> ,v firefox-esr
1154 [15:47:35] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 78.3.0esr-2; buster-proposed-updates: 78.4.0esr-1~deb10u2; buster-security:
1155 [15:47:36] <judd> 78.4.0esr-1~deb10u2; sid: 78.4.1esr-2
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1166 [15:53:42] <manuels8> hi I want to write a proper package dsc, control, etc for albertlauncher. can somebody please link some good cmake/c++ and eventually qt built projects having proper buld files
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1168 [15:53:44] <manuels8> build
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1191 [16:12:10] <Brigo> manuels8, you will be better asking in mentors
1192 [16:12:12] <Brigo> !mentor
1193 [16:12:13] <dpkg> [mentors] the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. replaced-url
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1261 [17:21:46] <BlueMatt> looks like 2020-26950 should be updated to also note that (afaict all currently packed versions of) thunderbird are also vulnerable, at least per the mozilla advisory.
1262 [17:21:48] <BlueMatt> replaced-url
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1278 [17:32:09] <Iarfen> hi!
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1283 [17:32:45] <Iarfen> I can't install vsftpd, I get the following error when running systemctl start vsftpd: "Failed to start vsftpd.service: Unknown unit: vsftpd.service"
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1285 [17:33:18] <greycat> ,file vsftpd.service
1286 [17:33:22] <judd> Search for vsftpd.service in buster/amd64: vsftpd: lib/systemd/system/vsftpd.service
1287 [17:33:40] <greycat> Purge and reinstall that package. If you customized the configs, save your customized config file somewhere before purging.
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1291 [17:36:28] <Iarfen> which command I should run?
1292 [17:36:31] <manuels8> Brigo. it is not about the debian project
1293 [17:36:47] <manuels8> you could however copy the files I maintain at open suse's build service platform
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1318 [17:55:55] <norbert> hello
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1320 [17:56:39] <norbert> I tried subscribing to debian-fonts@ but it doesn't send out the subscription confirmation request email
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1322 [17:57:43] <norbert> I have a spam filter on the email address I used but it doesn't drop mails, it merely sends some to the spambox
1323 [17:57:52] <norbert> and I simply got nothing from your mailman
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1326 [17:58:23] <sney> sometimes debian emails are slow, how long have you waited?
1327 [17:58:41] <manuels8> Can I somehow disable that source format check? I dont want a hyphen in the version number of my app.dsc
1328 [17:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1217
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1330 [17:59:41] <sney> manuels8: all that information is in debian policy and/or the NMG. you might also want to ask in #packaging.
1331 [17:59:49] <azeem> manuels8: what is "that source format check"?
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1354 [18:17:01] <lifostack> hello all, i've got a few linux or debian101 questions here, if im searching for a apt or dpkg package that i dont know the name of what is the cmd i can use to "serch/find" the package?
1355 [18:17:05] <lifostack> it was something like the apropos cmd
1356 [18:17:13] <lifostack> apropos -like virtualbox
1357 [18:17:14] <lifostack> or w/e
1358 [18:17:52] <sney> !refcard
1359 [18:17:52] <dpkg> A short reference of Debian commands - quite useful for someone new to Debian - can be found at replaced-url
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1361 [18:18:01] <sney> there are a couple options for searching
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1364 [18:18:32] <neilthereildeil> hey guys
1365 [18:18:53] <neilthereildeil> how can i output a certain offset of proc/pid/mem and pipe it to hexdump -C
1366 [18:18:53] <neilthereildeil> ?
1367 [18:19:09] <lifostack> sney i wanna say it was a dpkg cmd, like dpkg -f virtualbox or something
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1370 [18:19:21] <lifostack> if i could just remember what the base cmd is i could search the man page but i cant even remember that
1371 [18:19:25] <lifostack> i think im mixing up two linux cmds though
1372 [18:19:35] <jmcnaught> lifostack: "dpkg -L <packagename> | grep bin"
1373 [18:19:41] <lifostack> i think there's one linux cmd that lets you search for something that you're not sure what it is, and the other which searches pkgs
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1375 [18:20:58] <lifostack> jmcnaught, what do i do when i dont know the pckg name though
1376 [18:21:01] <lifostack> thats the crux of my issue
1377 [18:21:15] <lifostack> im looking for the cmd you use when you're trying to search for a package you dont know the name of
1378 [18:21:18] <lifostack> d i put a wildcard?
1379 [18:21:45] <jmcnaught> You do not know the name of the package or the command that you want to find?
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1381 [18:22:06] <lifostack> i dont know the name of the package
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1383 [18:22:08] <n4dir> apt-cache will not only search for packagenames, but also descriptions, as long you don't add --names-only
1384 [18:22:16] <neilthereildeil> how can i read an offset into a file from cmdline?
1385 [18:22:17] <lifostack> ah, thats the one apt-cache
1386 [18:22:55] <lifostack> also, can anyone tell me is there a difference between apt-get install and apt install? are they aliases of each other? i just recently returned to deb/linux after a brief break and everyone is saying to use apt install now
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1389 [18:25:24] <n4dir> ubuntu has per default an apt like applications installed which proposes commands to you which sound similar to what you've typed but isn't installed on your system
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1392 [18:25:46] <n4dir> bad news: i got no idea whats the name of that package (or if it is something you have in mind too)
1393 [18:29:45] <jelly> judd: i file-not-found
1394 [18:29:46] <judd> No package named 'file-not-found' was found in buster/amd64.
1395 [18:29:52] <jelly> judd: i command-not-found
1396 [18:29:54] <judd> Package command-not-found (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions. Version: 18.04.5-1; Size: 24.9k; Installed: 103k
1397 [18:30:07] <jelly> that thing.
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1400 [18:32:39] <jelly> lifostack: "apt" tool is newer and a bit nicer than apt-get, but they do the same thing when given install and a packagename. Output might differ slightly.
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1402 [18:33:11] <n4dir> thanks, jelly
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1409 [18:37:18] <manuels8> azeem, while building a apckage i get the error that the source format is invalid because it contains no hypen
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1411 [18:38:28] <manuels8> sney, sorry what is NMG. Googel didnt help.
1412 [18:39:00] <manuels8> didnt find #packaging
1413 [18:40:08] <n4dir> manuels8: it is on the oftc IRC server.
1414 [18:40:10] <sney> manuels8: sorry, #packaging is on the other network, irc.oftc.org
1415 [18:40:16] <sney> !nmg
1416 [18:40:16] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
1417 [18:40:26] <sney> nmg is aka the new maintainer's guide, ^
1418 [18:40:43] <sney> !oftc
1419 [18:40:43] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
1420 [18:41:41] <jhutchins> It's funny how aptitude never really caught on. Long-term users continued to use apt-get, now new users use apt.
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1422 [18:42:37] <sney> I suspect that is partly related to aptitude being recommended as the default, when many systems were still too cpu limited to run it seamlessly
1423 [18:42:48] <jelly> jhutchins: that might be stable-biased. aptitude is THE cli tool to get out of weird dependency issues.
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1425 [18:43:38] <sney> trying to use aptitude for day-to-day package operations on some squeeze-era hardware was like "ok, now time to go get lunch while it finishes thinking"
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1427 [18:43:58] <jelly> not just for testing or unstable, also good for multiarch, held packages, backports...
1428 [18:44:10] <sney> it's indispensable for figuring out weird apt problems, though
1429 [18:44:17] <n4dir> and weird search operations
1430 [18:44:17] <karlpinc> The thing that always attracted me to aptitude is that removing packages automatically removes required packages which were automatically installed to satisfy dependencies.
1431 [18:44:29] <jelly> aptitude TUI is crap modeled after dselect
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1433 [18:44:39] <jelly> aptitude CLI is great
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1435 [18:44:45] <karlpinc> I'd have thought that apt would do the same, but for some reason it does not.
1436 [18:45:00] <jelly> its search syntax is indispensable
1437 [18:45:13] <n4dir> someone enlighten me what apt does better than apt-get ?
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1439 [18:45:28] <jelly> n4dir: progress bar!
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1441 [18:45:56] <n4dir> o-ha. Now let me wait a few days until i install or remove something, then have a look at it :-)
1442 [18:46:01] <karlpinc> (even though ansible's search syntax is arcane, and virtually unique -- unless you're steeped in dselect.)
1443 [18:46:09] <taman> 'apt update' tells you whether there are packages to be updated. That's all I use 'apt' for.
1444 [18:46:28] <jelly> karlpinc: I almost did not notice the tpyo.
1445 [18:47:58] <n4dir> taman: i see. thanks.
1446 [18:48:02] <ndegruchy> I really like `apt`, it wraps most commands without having to remember everything. `apt search`, `apt info`, `apt install` and `apt remove` all take a sane set of commands. The only time I don't use it is when I use `dpkg` to install downloaded .deb file.
1447 [18:48:16] <jelly> ndegruchy: but you can!
1448 [18:48:21] <n4dir> the question how to get rid of muscle memory is probably offtopic here ... :-)
1449 [18:48:29] <jelly> ndegruchy: apt install ./foo.deb even resolves missing deps
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1451 [18:48:56] <ndegruchy> jelly: well. that... um... that would have been handy. Thanks!
1452 [18:49:07] * karlpinc finds apt way, way too chatty.
1453 [18:49:09] * ndegruchy crosses off dpkg for installing packages locally
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1455 [18:49:19] <jelly> so you don't have to apt-get -f install after dpkg fails the first time
1456 [18:49:37] <hop> is there any replacement for aptitude search ~o and ~c yet?
1457 [18:49:45] *** Joins: elliptical (~Anonymous@replaced-ip )
1458 [18:49:59] <n4dir> i kinda like the colored output of apt search. It seems to be more easy to see what you get
1459 [18:50:14] <jelly> hop: very very new apt (in unstable now? experimental?) have a similar search syntax. Unsure if 100% compatible
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1461 [18:50:23] <hop> nice
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1464 [18:51:14] <hop> not in the man page yet or am i looking for the wrong thing?
1465 [18:51:38] <hop> oh, experimentel… might not be in unstable yet
1466 [18:52:26] <jelly> dunno, I only read about that in passing somewhere, irc or planet.debian.org rss feed
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1468 [18:52:52] <jelly> might be only in git :-)
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1471 [18:54:16] <hop> i can wait, as long as there is progress at all
1472 [18:54:51] <hop> oh man… i've been looking into why my insane one-liner bash pipe monstrosity dumped something to screen but nothing showed up in less…
1473 [18:55:00] <hop> cost me 20 minutes. wanna guess?
1474 [18:55:26] *** Quits: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip ) (Quit: end)
1475 [18:55:53] <AimHere> a stdout/sterr mixup?
1476 [18:55:56] <AimHere> *stderr
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1478 [18:56:10] <hop> nope
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1481 [18:56:38] <hop> couple hundred empty lines at the beginning of the output *.-
1482 [18:56:58] <hop> time to find a new profession
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1485 [18:58:16] <jelly> set up a nicer LESS env.var. so it shows you which line you're on of how many
1486 [19:00:52] <hop> stranger's machine. it'll show up on the invoice, though (:
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1490 [19:05:31] <lifostack> hey guys i saw a website that advertises a way to prep your app so that it installs for all distros one size fits all, no .debs, .rpms. and maintaining diff pkgs for diff distros... couldnt one alternative to this also be to just let the user compile their own binary?
1491 [19:05:51] <lifostack> isnt all software written for linux portable as defined by POSIX? or is that only software specifically designed to be so?
1492 [19:06:01] <hop> well, in theory
1493 [19:06:22] <hop> "one size fits all" is a pipe dream. or snakeoil, depending
1494 [19:06:46] <lifostack> oh totally, i know there were some limitations of course, but it also bloats up the program size too, considerably.
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1496 [19:07:35] <hop> or the opposite, forcing the software to be minimal. which in turn can be a good thing or a bad thing itself
1497 [19:08:31] <ndegruchy> lifostack: sounds like flatpak and friends. they're junk imo
1498 [19:10:12] <phogg> POSIX is a very low common denominator. Most software requires a lot more than that specifies.
1499 [19:10:51] <hop> see above
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1502 [19:15:31] <lifostack> ndegruchy, yep thats the one, flatpack
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1504 [19:16:30] <lifostack> phogg but POSIX is what enables us to have the tools available (at time of OS install) to be able to make/compile any portable software though right?
1505 [19:16:48] <phogg> lifostack: not really
1506 [19:16:50] <lifostack> hate to bring windows into this, but if im not mistaken windows cannot compile c or c++ out of box without first installing compilers?
1507 [19:16:51] <jelly> lifostack: but next to flatpak there's also AppImage. And snap.
1508 [19:17:08] <sney> flatpak is a project from redhat developers. it's a compromise for installing applications that aren't available as distro packages for whatever reason. it keeps them from interfering with other stuff on your system, but security support is variable
1509 [19:17:25] <phogg> lifostack: whether your OS ships with compilers and whether it nominally supports POSIX are entirely unrelated.
1510 [19:17:32] <lifostack> i see
1511 [19:17:39] <jelly> each their own standard for installing self-contained apps to almost any distro.
1512 [19:17:42] <ndegruchy> lifostack: yeah, a solution in search of a problem. copying apple's fat binary ideas to without a point
1513 [19:17:45] <phogg> lifostack: indeed, Windows can be POSIX compliant (with optional subsystems enabled).
1514 [19:17:48] <lifostack> i thought POSIX had to do with support for "c" and what not?
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1516 [19:18:07] <lifostack> and other stuff too, of course
1517 [19:18:13] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1518 [19:18:36] <phogg> Copying fat binaries would have been better than snap/flatpak. There was a "fat elf" proposal at one point which would have been nice.
1519 [19:18:53] <lifostack> what is meant by fat?
1520 [19:18:56] <lifostack> like "big and fat"
1521 [19:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1209
1522 [19:19:01] <lifostack> or file allocation table?
1523 [19:19:10] <ndegruchy> Instead of doing the the straight-foward thing and enabling cgroups and apparmor for applications, lets reinvent packaging...
1524 [19:19:25] <phogg> lifostack: fat as in "more than one architecture supported in the same file"--that's what Apple does.
1525 [19:19:29] <jelly> lifostack: ELF format extended to have executables for multiple architectures in a single file = fat elf
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1527 [19:19:37] <ndegruchy> lifostack: fat in contains multiple architecture binaries and usually supporting libraries
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1529 [19:19:53] <lifostack> oh!
1530 [19:20:00] <lifostack> thats interesting i had no idea apple did that
1531 [19:20:22] <phogg> lifostack: they pretty much had to in order to do their PowerPC->Intel switch smoothly.
1532 [19:20:24] <lifostack> so an apple image could potentially cover multiple architectures and versions of those architectures macOS versions..? wow
1533 [19:20:26] <ndegruchy> lifostack: it makes the user experience migrating hardware architectures a bit less confusing
1534 [19:20:35] <jelly> phogg: and soon, intel->arm64
1535 [19:20:39] <phogg> jelly: indeed
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1538 [19:20:48] <lifostack> i think that arm64 switch is going to be VERY interesting
1539 [19:20:53] <phogg> jelly: and probably m68k->powerpc, but I'm not sure whether they used the same system at that time
1540 [19:21:00] <lifostack> Microsoft has already said they're poised to switch to ARM annd intel is ready to sue
1541 [19:21:08] <ndegruchy> lifostack: not really, they've done it more than once. it's old hand to them now
1542 [19:21:33] <jelly> Microsoft has had NT 3.5 running on Alpha back in the day
1543 [19:22:20] <lifostack> ndegruchy, oh i get that, in terms of readiness im sure apple is not going to be worrying a bit... im just concerned about how the x86 and mostly intel (its largest manufacturer?) are going to handle the mass exodus to ARM
1544 [19:22:23] <phogg> NT is far more portable--and sensible--than most people realize. It's just never been in Microsoft's business interests to exploit it before.
1545 [19:22:45] <phogg> jelly: not to forget the xbox, the first version of which IIRC was powerpc.
1546 [19:22:53] <lifostack> second version
1547 [19:23:01] <lifostack> firt version was x86 (IIRC)
1548 [19:23:08] <phogg> right, second version
1549 [19:23:08] <ndegruchy> lifostack: I'm sure they're getting ready to sue or buy arm licenses or whatever
1550 [19:23:13] <jelly> I don't know about NT, but ntfs permissions are a lot saner and a lot more capable than POSIX
1551 [19:23:21] <lifostack> phogg i only know that cuz i just watched some MVG stuff on the xbox on youtube
1552 [19:24:03] <phogg> jelly: In some ways. They're a lot more *complex* and granular, but I don't think more sane. POSIX permissions are so simple they almost don't exist. The NTFS model is okay, but if you have to get more complex that's not where I would go.
1553 [19:24:06] <lifostack> jelly i hate how NTFS and SHARE permissions are combined though... since we need cross compatibility i'd rather just get rid of NTFS permissions... i also hate how they dont easily match up with CHMOD
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1555 [19:24:23] <phogg> jelly: I would go with something more like AndrewFS, or I'd borrow from NWFS from Novell.
1556 [19:24:28] <lifostack> i hate having to keep up with multiple sets of memorization for essentially the same thing
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1558 [19:25:22] <lifostack> some permissions on NTFS are seriously confusing too like how they combine with LDAP/Active Directory permissions (some of the advanced security options it may not be NTFS permissions strictly at that point) but in the GUI they are kinda "advertised" as an extension of NTFS perms
1559 [19:25:29] <phogg> jelly: true story, just yesterday I had a Windows box I was on hiccup and drop all permission entries from a single file. Even things like "administrators can list security attributes." That doesn't speak well of its model.
1560 [19:25:44] <jhutchins> I think most end-user experiences are so far abstracted from the hardware that it really doesn't make any difference these days.
1561 [19:26:04] <lifostack> jhutchins that seems like an interesting point, in what way though?
1562 [19:26:15] <lifostack> in the sense that most users just want to browse the web?
1563 [19:26:21] <phogg> lifostack: wait until you run an NFSv4 server
1564 [19:26:38] * lifostack gets unironically unexcited :P
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1567 [19:27:25] <phogg> lifostack: It's not just NTFS+AD, in Windows a similar--but not identical--set of permissions also exist for registry keys.
1568 [19:27:40] <lifostack> wow, ok, didnt know that either
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1570 [19:27:56] <jelly> PetitOrion: are you a bot?
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1574 [19:28:14] <lifostack> so that kinda is mind blowing because the keys then have diff perms for diff "rings" or whatever they're called in windows? (users/user-levels)?
1575 [19:28:41] <phogg> lifostack: the registry has "hives"
1576 [19:28:46] <lifostack> i do like the linux everything is a file model
1577 [19:29:13] <ndegruchy> Plan 9 is more everything is a file
1578 [19:29:22] <phogg> lifostack: fundamentally the registry is just another filesystem that's pointlessly not treated as one, just like a lot of things in Windows land.
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1580 [19:29:59] <ndegruchy> ++
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1582 [19:30:06] <phogg> a registry hive is a file on disk formatted with a funny sort of filesystem; you could literally loop mount it and browse normally if you wanted to. I'm surprised MS doesn't do that.
1583 [19:31:08] <phogg> ndegruchy: In Unix everything is a file, except sockets. In plan9 everything is a file(system).
1584 [19:31:12] <ndegruchy> phogg: it's always a joy to open event viewer and find COM object errors from some process that couldn't access a registry branch/hive -- the user none the wiser
1585 [19:31:27] <phogg> In Unix it's more like "everything is a file(descriptor)."
1586 [19:32:18] <greycat> "most things are files, except the things that aren't"
1587 [19:32:28] <jelly> ah, sock it
1588 [19:32:43] <ndegruchy> <rimshot>
1589 [19:32:43] <lifostack> ok i didnt know these things
1590 [19:32:57] <lifostack> so i need to do some research tonight after work then
1591 [19:33:05] <lifostack> on files vs file descriptors and other things
1592 [19:33:40] <ndegruchy> DOS had file descriptors, too. Which is why, even today on Windows 10, you can't name files 'COM'
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1595 [19:35:22] <phogg> It certainly would have been impossible to put files like that in c:\dev\. Impossible, I say!
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1597 [19:37:57] <jelly> phogg: that DEV: syntax comes from CP/M I think, which DOS was a clone of
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1600 [19:38:39] <phogg> jelly: You mean prefix letters to denote disks? Yes, CP/M lacked directories and instead had one workspace per physical disk lettered alphabetically from A.
1601 [19:39:11] <jelly> phogg: also things that be NUL: COM: or LPT: on DOS
1602 [19:39:16] <ndegruchy> PATH=C:\DEV\;C:\DEV\CON;C:\DEV\CON\
1603 [19:39:27] <phogg> lacking a VFS I'm sure it seemed nonsensical to put device files inside C:, since that is itself a specific device.
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1605 [19:39:51] <phogg> jelly: they don't have colons, though
1606 [19:40:09] <jelly> way down to the bios and bdos API, which is so copy/pasted, if it were done today, Digital Research would win the court case
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1609 [19:40:44] <phogg> jelly: didn't they win? I thought they did, but by the time it was settled the market had moved on to the point where it wasn't helpful
1610 [19:40:47] <jelly> phogg: ah. Much difference!
1611 [19:41:05] <phogg> holding them back for a critical year or two was all that MS needed, even if they knew they couldn't win
1612 [19:41:44] <phogg> you can make a file called A because only A: is a drive, but NUL is like a /dev/null that exists in all directories simultaneously, so you can't name a file that.
1613 [19:42:10] <ndegruchy> omnipresent NUL
1614 [19:42:47] <ndegruchy> can you redirect to NUL on Windows? I've never tried
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1778 [22:46:45] <hl521> Hey what's up. I can't seem to ping my debian server for some reason, but I'm able to ssh in, and nmap it. Additionally, I'm able to ping literally every other device on the network. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a setting on debian that blocks ICMP or something?
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1780 [22:47:38] <tomreyn> a host firewall would, and possibly a network firewall, too
1781 [22:47:56] <hl521> but it's only an issue with the device, maybe it's the host firewall
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1783 [22:48:04] <hl521> hm I wonder what firewall iredmail uses
1784 [22:48:15] <tomreyn> there's also /proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore*
1785 [22:49:03] <hl521> maybe fail2ban?
1786 [22:49:38] <hl521> how do you disable icmp_echo_ignore?
1787 [22:50:40] <greycat> you *can* set up a firewall to block ICMP, but there is no such thing by default in Debian
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1789 [22:51:16] <hl521> greycat: right, I think something in IRedMail disabled it
1790 [22:51:44] <phogg> hl521: echo 0 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/icmp_echo_ignore_all
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1792 [22:52:00] <phogg> but maybe cat it first to see if that's even the problem
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1794 [22:55:15] <jhutchins> hl521: iptables -L to see if there are rules set.
1795 [22:56:06] <hl521> jhutchins: replaced-url
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1797 [22:57:13] <jhutchins> hl521: Are there rules set?
1798 [22:57:35] <phogg> seems like no
1799 [22:57:40] <hl521> As far as I know, no
1800 [22:57:47] <phogg> unless there are nft rules that don't show up this way
1801 [23:00:57] <jhutchins> You are correct, no rules are set.
1802 [23:01:21] <jhutchins> fail2ban would not affect icmp.
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1805 [23:02:13] <hl521> hm. I disabled that anyway
1806 [23:02:35] <hl521> curious why icmp is getting blocked
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1822 [23:17:35] <LtL> hl521: look at /etc/sysctl.conf
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1828 [23:22:17] <jhutchins> replaced-url
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1834 [23:27:03] <hl521> hm
1835 [23:27:09] <hl521> let me copy pasta this to you guys
1836 [23:27:34] <hl521> replaced-url
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1838 [23:27:52] <jhutchins> hl521: How abouot yuo read it and tell us what's significant?
1839 [23:29:48] <hl521> Well, the reason why I'm sending it in a paste bin is I don't know what the default values are for this, and thus what may have been changed. I'm not even sure if by default it's supposed to redirect, since the vast majority of them are commented out
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1841 [23:31:28] <hl521> I'm also curious why I don't see ports 8443 or 8080 open on nmap from a different host, though it shows it on debian. Maybe it's an nginx thing or something
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1844 [23:33:24] <jhutchins> Niether of those are standard ports, but are often used for web-based services or redirects.
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1846 [23:33:37] <hl521> yeah, it's specific to Unifi
1847 [23:33:46] <jhutchins> hl521: You can try looking for ports in /etc/services
1848 [23:33:47] <hl521> with the exception of 8080 but yeah
1849 [23:34:08] <hl521> are you able to answer the previous question though about the pastebin?
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1851 [23:35:06] <sney> linux will often use tcp listens for localhost-only stuff, e.g. an application with a build-in httpd that then gets reverse proxied by nginx or apache, so if you're sure those ports are "open" check if they are listening only on 127.0.0.1 or ::1
1852 [23:36:15] <hl521> okay tracking, I definitely see port 8080 open on /etc/services, 8443 I think is just a nginx redirect
1853 [23:37:00] <ratrace> hrm.... some deb.debian.org mirrors in EU are inaccessible...
1854 [23:37:21] <jhutchins> hl521: There are manpages for sysctl.conf that should explain the defaults, but we can't know what changes third-party services make.
1855 [23:37:51] <hl521> okay, and sney how can you czech to see if the ports are only listening on localhost?
1856 [23:38:04] <sney> hl521: try 'ss -tl'
1857 [23:38:11] <hl521> being port 8080 is really my major concern so I can see what's going on on the net
1858 [23:38:14] <hl521> sec
1859 [23:38:16] <jhutchins> hl521: I'm not trying to be unhelpful, I'm encouraging you to find your own solutions.
1860 [23:39:27] <hl521> jhutchins: I understand that, though to help me find my own solutions, proper direction tends to be needed not just "figure it out yourself" lol
1861 [23:39:36] <jhutchins> netstat -anp will show you what's listening there.
1862 [23:39:58] <hl521> to kind of give you a comparison, giving me a tig welder and sheets of metal without an example of how to do it could wind up with injuries
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1864 [23:40:10] <chowder> Hey guys, I'm on the current release and seem to have hit a snag during boot. It won't automatically mount my /home partition. I've got full disk encryption with LVM. I've never had an issue since installing Debian. replaced-url
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1866 [23:40:19] <jhutchins> hl521: The apropos command will show you man pages that follow the pattern you give, as in apropos sysctl.
1867 [23:40:40] <hl521> interesting, port 8080 seems to be listening on * so that should be fine, curious why I can only see it as an nmap from the localhost and not from another device
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1869 [23:41:11] <hl521> same thing goes with 8443
1870 [23:41:16] <jhutchins> hl521: ping is frequently disabled for "security" reasons, I woud guess that redmail messed with something.
1871 [23:41:36] <greycat> !icmp
1872 [23:41:37] <dpkg> icmp is, like, Internet Control Message Protocol. or DO NOT BLOCK ALL ICMP or someone will thwack you and you will have deserved it., or use --state RELATED in iptables to selectively block and still have legal icmps pass, or replaced-url
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1875 [23:42:15] <jhutchins> !redmail
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1877 [23:42:39] <hl521> yeah, and in netstat -anp, both 8080 and 8443 are :::
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1879 [23:43:32] <jhutchins> hl521: So if you don't have ipv6 on your network, they won't be reachable.
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1882 [23:44:19] <jhutchins> hl521: I would guess that you hvae ipv6 turned on the server, so you can reach localhost.
1883 [23:44:50] <hl521> ah, I also see 127.0.0.1:8443, but yeah 8080 is only on ipv6, that's interesting
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1886 [23:45:36] <hl521> 8443 isn't too much of an issue since I can easily access that via nginx, it's 8080 that needs to be on ipv4 so network devices can say "hey I'm here" to the sdn
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1895 [23:56:07] <hl521> Hey, I have to go help a friend turn some bolts, I'll be back in a few
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