People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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34 [00:40:01] <strk> how dangerous would it be to install a mailman deb package for Buster in a Jessie machine ?
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95 [01:49:55] <imMute> !frankendebian
96 [01:49:55] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
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168 [03:38:17] <WillPittenger> I just tried to boot replaced-url
169 [03:38:39] * WillPittenger uploaded an image: VirtualBox_Debian_04_11_2020_20_35_04.png (22KiB) < replaced-url
170 [03:39:44] <WillPittenger> Any ideas? It shouldn't have troubles with a virtual disk unless the file was corrupt. I'm using vBox 6.1.16 r140961.
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172 [03:40:49] <WillPittenger> I also posted that in #vbox.
173 [03:40:50] <addedman8> hi
174 [03:41:00] <addedman8> is collab.debian.net archived anywhere?
175 [03:41:04] <addedman8> wayback machine doesnt work with it
176 [03:41:12] <addedman8> i am looking for old artwork
177 [03:41:15] <addedman8> that is debian related
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181 [03:44:10] <zerocool> .wib
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189 [03:54:21] <addedman8> well where should i ask
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195 [04:02:22] <alex11> addedman8, here's fine, but i know nothing about collab.debian.net
196 [04:03:00] <alex11> i think .net is things splintered off the debian community by individual devs so maybe ask #debian-devel or #alioth both on OFTC
197 [04:03:49] <addedman8> okay
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199 [04:04:13] <addedman8> thanks ill check it out
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202 [04:07:55] <WillPittenger> Seems I had a corrupt download. Redownloaed it worked.
203 [04:11:11] <addedman8> well
204 [04:11:23] <addedman8> guess collabn was killed off in favour of some burgerkin outreach program
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206 [04:11:49] <WillPittenger> Nope. Still didn't get a valid copy.
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213 [04:31:03] <WillPittenger> Maybe since BluRay writers are common, you should offer a BluRay image that has everything.
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231 [05:07:22] <unixbsd> Hello, an xdg link over http, what is it actually? can it launched with browser.
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235 [05:18:16] <Aurora_v_kosmose> replaced-url
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240 [05:21:34] <themill> sure, signatures are in the same directory on the cd mirror
241 [05:21:58] <Aurora_v_kosmose> For the ISOs, yeah, I meant for these: replaced-url
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252 [05:36:29] <themill> Aurora_v_kosmose: I *think* your trust path is back to the Release file for the distribution replaced-url
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257 [05:44:33] <themill> Aurora_v_kosmose: indeed... replaced-url
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261 [05:49:23] <kingsley> Is there a package that vets hardware peripherals, like video cards, for insecurities, without needing to know their firmware, but rather by treating them as so called "black boxes" and just checks for safe responses to various, possibly randomized and/or fuzzed, inputs?
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263 [05:49:50] <kingsley> It seems to me that with the rise of built in controllers and the internet of things, being able to test if new peripherals are safe or not would be cool.
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265 [05:50:43] <Aurora_v_kosmose> themill: Oh wow. Good find.
266 [05:51:08] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Thanks for that.
267 [05:56:34] <themill> np
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270 [06:00:54] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Yeah, full chain from there. Thanks a lot.
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310 [07:13:43] <StarOnD> hello, I wish to remove a user's write permission from his home directory. Can I do that ? Looks like it won't let me login as that user if I do that
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316 [07:25:12] <WillPittenger> replaced-url
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325 [07:38:52] <cluelessperson> Warning: apt-key output should not be parsed (stdout is not a terminal)
326 [07:39:01] <cluelessperson> how do I handle this warning? nothing's working
327 [07:39:27] <Lope> Is this official? replaced-url
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334 [07:52:33] <themill> cluelessperson: what are you trying to do? what particular nothing is not working?
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336 [07:57:42] <cluelessperson> APT_KEY_DONT_WARN_ON_DANGEROUS_USAGE=DontWarn
337 [07:57:50] <cluelessperson> curl -s replaced-url
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341 [07:59:12] <themill> Note that apt-key is deprecated and you should just copy to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ ... assuming you trust the key
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352 [08:13:44] <themill> WillPittenger: looks fine here. Is the file the right size (what filesystem are you working on)
353 [08:14:17] <WillPittenger> I'm downloading with DownloadStudio on Windows 10 64-bit.
354 [08:14:49] <WillPittenger> MD5SUMS passed the same file.
355 [08:15:44] <themill> What size file have you downloaded?
356 [08:16:20] <themill> (exact size in bytes)
357 [08:16:25] <WillPittenger> 4,686,921,728 bytes
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359 [08:16:57] <themill> that's a good start -- it means it's not just a > 4GB file size problem
360 [08:17:12] <themill> replaced-url
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362 [08:18:01] <WillPittenger> It was DownloadStudio running both tests.
363 [08:18:17] <themill> oh, it's calculating the hash too?
364 [08:18:27] <themill> does it tell you the hash it calculates?
365 [08:18:33] <WillPittenger> Or calling something.
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368 [08:19:05] <themill> (unrelated to your actual problem, but there is probably no need to actually have DVD-2)
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370 [08:19:34] <WillPittenger> Well, I downloaded it just in case.
371 [08:20:11] <WillPittenger> I don't see any evidence it tells you that. Just it failed and which test failed.
372 [08:21:34] <WillPittenger> Though when it failed, I either deleted the download or restarted it.
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376 [08:26:06] <WillPittenger> As I thought, the log that's left after that is very brief.
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404 [08:52:28] <WillPittenger> themill: Just finished another attempt at it. I get back "X 11-5-2020 1:45:28 am SHA1 Check failed [SHA1=1EDC3E1C5DDDE0F72619A98B5224CD4C3D88053F]"
405 [08:52:49] <WillPittenger> replaced-url
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407 [08:54:05] <themill> That is the wrong hash, but if you've tried multiple mirrors then it sounds like the downloader is at fault
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599 [12:46:02] <Akuw> i am trying to change filesystem type using fdisk in a USB stick but FAT32 or FAT16 are not there when i list types using "L"
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601 [12:47:33] <Akuw> replaced-url
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605 [12:55:23] <ratrace> Akuw: are you talking about partition type identifiers, not filesystem?
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642 [13:43:12] <ychaouche> hello #debian
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645 [13:43:28] <ychaouche> What's the proper way to customize the dynamic part of motd ?
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647 [13:43:47] <ychaouche> Should I manually change /etc/init.d/motd ?
648 [13:44:16] * ychaouche which could cause conflict if package has to be updated, maybe ?
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651 [13:46:51] <ratrace> ychaouche: what package does that?
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653 [13:47:09] <ychaouche> ratrace, I mean the motd package
654 [13:47:22] <ychaouche> if motd gets updated maybe /etc/init.d/motd gets overwritten
655 [13:47:29] <ychaouche> I guess ?
656 [13:47:34] <Akuw> i need a tool to create linux booteable usb from debian
657 [13:47:36] <ratrace> ,motd
658 [13:47:45] <ratrace> ,v motd
659 [13:47:46] <judd> No package named 'motd' was found in amd64.
660 [13:47:48] <ratrace> what package is that, again?
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662 [13:47:57] <ychaouche> apparently motd has changed since debian 7 ^^'
663 [13:47:57] <tachikomas> motd is a part of ssh server.
664 [13:47:59] <tachikomas> i guess.
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666 [13:48:24] <ratrace> you guess wrong
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668 [13:48:36] <ratrace> dynamic motd is an Ubuntu invention, so I'm really curious here what package is that in Debian
669 [13:48:44] * ychaouche thinks there should be a bot to also do apt-file searches
670 [13:49:17] <ratrace> there is
671 [13:49:20] <ratrace> ,file /etc/motd
672 [13:49:25] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
673 [13:49:31] <ychaouche> oh, nice :)
674 [13:49:52] <ratrace> so you're really running ubuntu, aren't you?
675 [13:50:07] <ychaouche> Description: Debian GNU/Linux 7.9 (wheezy)
676 [13:50:21] <ychaouche> On Debian GNU/Linux, the content of /run/motd.dynamic is also dis‐
677 [13:50:22] <ychaouche> played. This file is generated by /etc/init.d/motd at boot.
678 [13:50:34] <ychaouche> from man motd
679 [13:50:47] <ratrace> ,file /etc/init.d/motd
680 [13:50:52] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
681 [13:51:09] <ychaouche> well, debian 7 so I guess things have changed since.
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683 [13:52:06] <ychaouche> Akuw, use dd
684 [13:52:34] <Akuw> i used "sudo dd bs=4M if=/home/kenny/Desktop/ISOs/debian-10.6.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdc status=progress oflag=sync"
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686 [13:52:40] <ratrace> I doubt that ever existed in Wheezy
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688 [13:53:09] <Akuw> done
689 [13:53:41] <Akuw> thkz
690 [13:53:50] <ychaouche> Good :) or you can download a 100Mb javascript electron based app to do the same, only slower and worst.
691 [13:54:04] <ychaouche> worse*
692 [13:54:39] <ychaouche> ok, this will either go to debian forums or linuxquestions
693 [13:55:05] <ychaouche> ratrace, see also : replaced-url
694 [13:57:34] <ratrace> so that's pam_motd obtained from ubuntu and according to that wiki, availalbe from jessie? you still need the whole update shebang mechanism which afaik isn't packaged in debian. that's why I was curious to know what package is doing that.
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696 [13:57:41] <Akuw> i got some problem when start installing debian in Lenovo Ideapad3 replaced-url
697 [13:58:37] <ratrace> ychaouche: you even sure you have pam_motd in wheezy?
698 [13:58:52] <ychaouche> Akuw, can you paste on a non-trolling website ?
699 [13:59:04] <ychaouche> Akuw, also, is that a display problem ?
700 [13:59:08] <Akuw> give me the address
701 [13:59:11] <ratrace> Akuw: yeah, an imgur link would be better
702 [13:59:30] <ychaouche> Akuw, gist is fine I guess, or dpaste ?
703 [13:59:31] <Akuw> ychaouche: no, the laptop is working fine
704 [14:00:32] <ychaouche> ratrace, this is from /etc/pam.d/login : session optional pam_motd.so motd=/run/motd.dynamic
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706 [14:01:48] <ratrace> ychaouche: in wheezy?!
707 [14:02:07] <ychaouche> well, what's wrong with that ?
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709 [14:04:30] <ratrace> still wondering what was packaging /etc/init.d/motd . and how come you're still using wheezy. that's like, not even LTS supported any more
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711 [14:05:14] <Akuw> i test the usb stick in another laptop and is working ok
712 [14:05:33] <Akuw> so the problme could be related to video driver ?
713 [14:06:06] <ratrace> at any rate, there's no such service in debian stable, and if you have that pam module then it doesn't matter how you construct /run/motd. Ubuntu has a package that does it, so take a peek how they do it, copy to your machine
714 [14:06:27] <Akuw> i can see grub menu, but when press enter to start the next screens appear like that
715 [14:06:29] <ratrace> Akuw: what problem tho? that pic is inaccessible to me
716 [14:06:35] <Akuw> wait
717 [14:07:39] <Akuw> replaced-url
718 [14:09:48] <ratrace> Akuw: yeah, something-something gpu.
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720 [14:10:46] <Akuw> retrace: hi man, how are you
721 [14:10:54] <Akuw> retrace: what can i do
722 [14:12:18] <Akuw> recumode show same
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724 [14:12:24] <ratrace> who is retrace? anyway, you can try adding nomodeset to your kernel command line via grub, see if that helps
725 [14:12:26] <Akuw> rescue mode
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727 [14:13:18] <fireba11> re-trace? :-D
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729 [14:16:47] <ychaouche> ratrace, according to apt-file, it's initscripts's fault
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732 [14:18:32] <ychaouche> Akuw, nvidia ?
733 [14:18:41] <mindlessmiss> try to update now i get errors in synaptic or apt-get update
734 [14:18:43] <mindlessmiss> W: An error occurred during the signature verification. The repository is not updated and the previous index files will be used. GPG error: replaced-url
735 [14:18:43] <mindlessmiss> E: The repository 'replaced-url
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737 [14:19:38] <ratrace> ychaouche: wheezy is long dead so if you want support you better upgrade to a supported debian version.
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739 [14:20:20] <Akuw> radeon
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741 [14:20:42] <ratrace> Akuw: so, did nomodeset help?
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748 [14:23:55] <Akuw> solved
749 [14:24:08] <Akuw> i select special parameter to start
750 [14:25:00] <ratrace> what special parameter
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753 [14:27:20] <Akuw> Help -> F6 - -> install vga=771 noapic nolapic
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755 [14:27:44] <ratrace> nice.
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779 [14:51:07] <ychaouche> on debian 10, it is even less clear what's responsible of generating the /var/run/motd.dynamic file
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781 [14:51:22] <ychaouche> man page only says pamd displays it, not generate it
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787 [14:54:31] <ychaouche> I ended up changing /etc/init.d/motd and putting run-parts /etc/update-mot.d/ > /var/run/motd.dynamic inside it's start function.
788 [14:54:37] <ychaouche> Which seems to have worked
789 [14:54:46] <ychaouche> I'll leave it like this for the moment.
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798 [15:05:05] <ratrace> /etc/init.d/motd doesn't belong to any package in debian 10
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813 [15:21:22] <ratrace> !cve lookup CVE-2020-27347
814 [15:21:22] <dpkg> Information about the security advisory CVE-2020-27347 may be found at replaced-url
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817 [15:22:31] <halabund> How can I update all packages (apt update && apt upgrade) *except* one? This is actually a Raspberry Pi question, but my understanding is that "Raspbian" is effectively identical to Debian, therefore the answer should be the same.
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819 [15:23:11] <nkuttler> !raspbian
820 [15:23:11] <dpkg> Raspberry Pi OS (previously called Raspbian) is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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822 [15:25:21] <halabund> nkuttler: Do you mean that "apt-get" on one is not the same on the other one?
823 [15:25:52] <nkuttler> halabund: how would we know?
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825 [15:26:16] <halabund> OK, how would I do this on Debian then?
826 [15:27:22] <nkuttler> why don't you just ask in the correct channel?
827 [15:27:34] <ratrace> on debian you could apt-mark hold certain packages
828 [15:28:21] <ratrace> it's very likely unwise to do so, though.
829 [15:28:52] <halabund> ratrace: Thanks!
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831 [15:29:15] <halabund> nkuttler: Because I want to know the answer for Debian.
832 [15:29:30] <halabund> Which I also deal with, not on a Raspberry Pi.
833 [15:30:18] <ratrace> nkuttler is right tho, this answer is valid for Debian. no idea what or how raspbian does package management
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835 [15:30:59] <halabund> Yes, I understand. The only way I can find out if it's different is if I _also_ get the answer for Debian. Thanks for providing it.
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858 [15:42:45] <Streusel> Is extending an existing disk (I had sda & now newly sdb) as simple as fdisk /dev/sda n + e & defaults, or there more to it? I don't want to create a new partition for the new disk sdb.
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860 [15:43:41] <hop> Streusel: sorry, can you rephrase that?
861 [15:43:52] <hop> Streusel: what do you mean by "extending"?
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863 [15:44:48] <Streusel> :thinking: I have a 40gb (mounted) disk that is /sda and a new 100gb /sdb (unmounted) disk
864 [15:45:13] <Streusel> So I want to 'extend' the size of the 40gb by the new 100gb that I have available through the unmounted sdb disk
865 [15:45:15] <hop> you don't have a mounted disk, you have a mounted partition
866 [15:45:28] <hop> or maybe logical volume
867 [15:45:34] <Streusel> probably the latter
868 [15:45:44] <hop> that would be important info
869 [15:46:37] <hop> where do you even _get_ 100gb disks anymore? :-D
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871 [15:46:58] <absinthe> hello, when running `update-alternative --config editor` nano gets listed twice (on multiple machines, running buster). why ?
872 [15:47:31] <absinthe> (if someone knows...)
873 [15:47:45] <ratrace> listed once here tho
874 [15:47:53] <Streusel> It's a vps hop >_<
875 [15:48:02] <ndegruchy> I have it listed twice, but one is 'auto' mode
876 [15:48:11] <absinthe> ndegruchy: yes, same
877 [15:48:20] <Streusel> I just went and added the 100 since it was an option and not overly expensive
878 [15:48:23] <absinthe> sorry, perhaps i should have told it before
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880 [15:48:50] <Streusel> and it's a test for me to get used to adding new things, in this case tho I already populated sda with too much stuff to 'just' play with it and fuck up.
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882 [15:49:05] <kgfgdf> something strange happened with my apt/dpkg
883 [15:49:08] <ndegruchy> absinthe: might just be a fallback listing (hence: auto)
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885 [15:49:45] <kgfgdf> it became very very slow and I have a feeling that some packages I install are not actually installed
886 [15:50:03] <kgfgdf> is there some corrupt database to be rebuilt?
887 [15:50:19] <absinthe> ndegruchy: might make sense
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889 [15:50:34] <ratrace> kgfgdf: who knows. you'll have to back the symptoms you're seeing with some logs or tangible metrics
890 [15:50:35] <absinthe> ratrace: sorry, but which editer is set as default ?
891 [15:50:55] <ratrace> absinthe: I think nano is by default. I've got vim tho
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893 [15:51:07] <absinthe> mh okay.
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896 [15:52:02] <absinthe> (ty)
897 [15:52:04] <hop> Streusel: next time, please describe the actual situation instead of some imagined scenario
898 [15:52:26] <Piraty> i found that debian's docker images >10 (i.e. testing and unstable) don't define VERSION_ID="10" in /etc/os-release, which is set in debian 10 and below.
899 [15:52:34] <Streusel> It is an actual situation though :\
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901 [15:53:03] <Streusel> My /sda 40gb is at 35gb, and I need the additional space of the /sdb which is new.
902 [15:53:18] <ratrace> Streusel: no LVM?
903 [15:53:52] <hop> who knows what "vps" means for sd?… there's not even a real "disk" involved
904 [15:54:08] <Streusel> Never used one, and the instructions that came with it were 'use mkdir -p /mnt/vdb and go from there'
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906 [15:54:24] <ratrace> doesn't matter for the kernel though
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910 [15:54:44] <ratrace> you can't "extend" one disk with another, virtual or otherwise, without something like LVM under your filesystems
911 [15:55:21] <ratrace> you _can_ enlarge the virtual disk, then enlarge the (last) partition on it, then enlarge the filesystem on that partition
912 [15:55:24] <Streusel> Ok, that's good to know. So I can just create a new partition and make it ext4.
913 [15:55:28] <hop> like, for example, a "extend my drive space" button in the control panel, for all we know…
914 [15:55:58] <ratrace> Streusel: again, if that's virtual disks, you can enlarge the existing disk image
915 [15:55:59] <Streusel> There's no such control panel.
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917 [15:56:12] <hop> my point is that we don't know what _is_ there
918 [15:56:20] <Streusel> Righto, ugh :|
919 [15:56:35] <ratrace> that's irrelevant as the options in the guest are very much limited
920 [15:56:52] <hop> uh?
921 [15:57:34] <ratrace> it doesn't matter what actually provides the /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. how to enlarge _filesystem_ available space is agnostic to that
922 [15:57:54] <hop> they weren't even talking about /dev/sda, strictly speaking
923 [15:58:04] <ratrace> if you had LVM, you could add another (virtual) disk as a new PV in linear expansion
924 [15:58:32] <hop> if you had wheels you were a bus
925 [15:58:36] <ratrace> if you don't, then you could (now this part depends on how exactly are virtual disks created) enalrge the virtual disk image, then enlarge the (last) partition on it, then enlarge the filesystem on that partition
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927 [15:59:05] <jelly> ratrace: I've done LVM-ization of existing VMs, it's fun... FSVO fun
928 [15:59:24] <Streusel> It was bike, not bus!
929 [15:59:27] <jelly> also, it's worth it for future management
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931 [16:00:01] <ratrace> and also, I'm referring to this crucial problem description: "15:53 < Streusel> My /sda 40gb is at 35gb, and I need the additional space of the /sdb which is new."
932 [16:00:11] <jelly> each time I find a VM done with VMware P2V tool (which replicates disks and partitions exactly) I gnash my teeth
933 [16:00:38] <jelly> Streusel: care to pastebin the outpot of "lsblk" and "df"
934 [16:00:45] <ratrace> and for THAT problem descrption what I said stands. it's irelevant what provides sda and sdb. the linux kernel in the guest can't automagically concat sdb onto sda and provide 100GB+ more, without something like LVM
935 [16:00:54] <hop> the solved their problem. give it a rest
936 [16:00:59] <hop> *they
937 [16:01:11] <ratrace> it's also very common to just enlarge the disk image on the host side, most if not all hypervisors would allow that
938 [16:01:22] <ratrace> Solved how?
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940 [16:01:33] <Streusel> replaced-url
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942 [16:01:36] <jelly> hop: that was not my reading
943 [16:01:42] <ratrace> mine either
944 [16:02:16] <hop> "i just went ahead" seemed final to me
945 [16:02:30] <hop> but, yeah, language… who cares
946 [16:03:18] <hop> Streusel: do you not see a difference between "/sda" and "/dev/sda1"?
947 [16:03:23] <jelly> Streusel: so you got a new 100GB disk. you could leave the 40GB one for the OS, and format this one with lvm going from this point on
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949 [16:03:45] <Streusel> yeah one is a part the other a disk
950 [16:03:58] <ratrace> since there's just one partition, why not enlarge the virtual disk image
951 [16:03:59] <hop> no, one is completely wrong, the other describes reality
952 [16:04:07] <jelly> ratrace: there are two disks.
953 [16:04:21] <ratrace> jelly: sdb was added to "solve" the running out of space with sda
954 [16:04:36] <hop> which leads to the question: why??
955 [16:04:38] <jelly> and it's added now.
956 [16:05:10] <Streusel> hop there was no option to enlarge/extend the primary disk, only add a new one
957 [16:05:10] <hop> Streusel: what are you using the space for? is it all in your home directory, for example?
958 [16:05:17] <ratrace> jelly: we don't know how the virtual disks are managed on the host side. if the user has no option, then yeh, turn sda into sys disk, sdb into lvm for user data
959 [16:05:28] <Streusel> pictures, it's an image server
960 [16:05:31] <ratrace> if the user has option, just enlarge sda's virtual disk image, if possible.
961 [16:05:50] <hop> Streusel: so, most data is in one directory?
962 [16:05:59] <Streusel> exactly all /var/replaced-url
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964 [16:06:33] <Streusel> and then thousands of subdirectories as it is dynamically generated should new content be added, or removed.
965 [16:06:45] <hop> Streusel: create a partition on sdb, create a logical volume - or not, copy your data, mount the partiton or lv to /var/replaced-url
966 [16:06:56] <ratrace> Streusel: so do what jelly suggested, tread sda for system, sdb for your data, but use it as a pv for LVM, to prepare for future such issues
967 [16:07:00] <hop> ask for specifics on any of those steps
968 [16:07:08] <ratrace> *treat
969 [16:07:59] <Streusel> How do I mount the partition to a specific directory? The entire reason I wanted to 'extend'/'enlarge' was because I didn't know how to solve that issue.
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972 [16:09:17] <ratrace> Streusel: mount /path/to/dev/ice /path/to/directory in simplest terms, but you need a filesystem on that dev/ice first
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974 [16:09:33] <Streusel> right
975 [16:09:37] <hanson7754> C10wn
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979 [16:10:21] <hop> Streusel: manually mount it to /mnt for copying, permanently mount it to /var/replaced-url
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981 [16:10:24] <jelly> Streusel: first you format and mount in a temporary place (using the mount command), then migrate/copy the data, then rename the old original directory, then create a new empty one named the same, edit /etc/fstab to add the new entry for /dev/where/ever/fs on /var/replaced-url
982 [16:10:28] <Streusel> How do I go about moving them from /var/replaced-url
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984 [16:10:42] <Streusel> ahh ok! that solves my question hop
985 [16:10:43] <jelly> you don't move. You COPY
986 [16:10:49] <ratrace> answers preceded the question. time loops ftw!
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988 [16:11:15] <jelly> until you're 100% sure the original is not needed any more, don't delete anything
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990 [16:11:32] <hop> Streusel: the best way to move the data is `cd /var/replaced-url
991 [16:11:39] <Streusel> Oh yeah, at this point I was even considering download it, except.. it would take half a day to do so.
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993 [16:12:08] <ratrace> find + cpio the "best" way? lolno. just use rsync
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995 [16:12:17] <jelly> hop: does that command take care of sparse files, hard links, acl, xattrs?
996 [16:12:18] <hop> yeah, except no
997 [16:12:26] <ratrace> howdja reckon
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1000 [16:12:51] <jelly> rsync has a nice feature in that it's restartable
1001 [16:13:13] <ratrace> rsync -aAX and I'd do -x which is probably unnecessary here, -v for mesmerising text scroll
1002 [16:13:37] <jelly> (but there's a zillion ways to clone full trees, some better than others)
1003 [16:14:01] <jelly> ratrace: you're missing hard links and sparse files.
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1005 [16:14:17] <jelly> and -x is always safe
1006 [16:14:26] <Freneticks> Hi, is this site is related to debian ? replaced-url
1007 [16:14:27] <hop> you are funny
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1009 [16:14:44] <ratrace> jelly: it's safe yes, but might miss things. something to be aware of, 'sall
1010 [16:14:56] <jelly> Freneticks: debian.net domains are for unofficial projects of debian developers
1011 [16:15:25] <Freneticks> jelly: is there a git or something where I can follow project ?
1012 [16:16:01] <roycroft> without getting involved in the copy war, i'll mention that it's a good idea to do the copy in a screen, or other detatchable terminal, session
1013 [16:16:17] <roycroft> it's nice that rsync has a resume mode, but it shouldn't be necessary
1014 [16:16:29] <hop> "resume mode"?
1015 [16:16:44] <roycroft> rsync can resume a transfer if it's interrupted
1016 [16:16:50] <hop> that is not a mode
1017 [16:16:59] <jelly> Freneticks: so it's done by someone or a in Debian team, probably the haproxy team. replaced-url
1018 [16:17:04] <roycroft> but just make sure that it doesn't get interrupted
1019 [16:17:12] <roycroft> that's my only point here
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1022 [16:17:24] <roycroft> use screen or whatever detachable terminal utility you prefer
1023 [16:17:25] <Freneticks> oh yeah probably better to stick to stable or buster-backports
1024 [16:17:27] <Deyaa> Does anyone has a copy of maxmimd enterprise??
1025 [16:17:30] <Freneticks> bu ti miss some feature
1026 [16:17:31] <roycroft> and if you get disconnected the session does not
1027 [16:17:47] <hop> Streusel: can you take the service offline for a comfortable amount of time?
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1029 [16:18:00] <jelly> Deyaa: don't you need a commercial licence for that these days
1030 [16:18:04] <roycroft> a quiescent filesystem is a good idea, yes
1031 [16:18:05] <ratrace> Deyaa: a "copy"?
1032 [16:18:31] <nkuttler> ah, i see, cross-posting about warez
1033 [16:19:35] <jelly> hop: so, does that cpio invocation take care of all the edge cases or not?
1034 [16:19:53] <Deyaa> ratrace: yes please
1035 [16:20:03] <ratrace> Deyaa: a "copy" of what
1036 [16:20:08] <roycroft> if it were me i'd schedule a maintenance window, shut down the web server, then mv /var/replaced-url
1037 [16:20:11] <roycroft> and then do the copy
1038 [16:20:17] <hop> jelly: it's a freakin' collection of images
1039 [16:20:18] <Deyaa> jelly: well not of you use it offline
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1041 [16:20:23] <hop> jelly: bother somebody else
1042 [16:20:40] <ratrace> roycroft: really no need for downtime here
1043 [16:20:43] <Deyaa> ratrace: maxmimd geoip2 enterprise
1044 [16:21:07] <jelly> hop: I'm not bothering for nothing -- other people read the channel and benefit from best practices
1045 [16:21:12] <ratrace> Deyaa: the one we're paying for heftily?
1046 [16:21:34] <roycroft> and without really inserting myself deeply in the copy war,r i'll say that cpio can handle those cases, and is my preferred tool
1047 [16:21:40] <hop> jelly: in that case. there is no best practice. rsync has its drawbacks as well
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1049 [16:22:07] <ratrace> pretty sure rsync is the best practice
1050 [16:22:17] <roycroft> i'm pretty sure you're wrong, ratrace
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1052 [16:22:30] <ratrace> roycroft: about which part? downtime?
1053 [16:22:31] <roycroft> i'm pretty sure there is no single "best practice"
1054 [16:22:34] <Deyaa> ratrace: ya
1055 [16:22:47] <roycroft> i would have no idea about downtime needs
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1057 [16:22:51] <roycroft> so i can't comment on that
1058 [16:22:52] <ratrace> roycroft: best practice != absolute
1059 [16:23:08] <hop> "best practice" is a useless buzzword, anyway
1060 [16:23:17] <roycroft> rsync works fine
1061 [16:23:23] <roycroft> find | cpio works fine
1062 [16:23:24] <ratrace> rsync covers pretty much the vast majority of filesystem situatios. it's its WHOLE job to do that
1063 [16:23:48] <roycroft> dump | restore works fine in the right circumstances
1064 [16:24:02] <ratrace> does cpio deal with xattrs and acls? srs questions, don't see it mentioned in the manpage
1065 [16:24:21] <roycroft> in fact, if there is any "best practice", dump | restore would be a good candidate where it would work
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1067 [16:24:40] <roycroft> because it deals with the raw filesystem, and is much faster than other tools
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1069 [16:24:58] <roycroft> but it would probably not be appropriate in this case
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1072 [16:25:56] <jak2000> hi all anyone here can give me a hand whit this error: replaced-url
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1075 [16:26:34] <roycroft> for anyone who was around yesterday, btw, i have a brief update on the touchscreen issue
1076 [16:27:11] <roycroft> what i've found is that the axial direction is reversed as well as the absolute position being way off
1077 [16:28:07] <roycroft> and that for whatever reason, the calibration file that i put in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d is being ignored
1078 [16:28:09] <Streusel> hop yeah I can take it offline for a while
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1080 [16:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1210
1081 [16:29:19] <jelly> Streusel: here's the thing. if you use LVM, you can extend the existing filesystem on top of that, if need be, by resizing the disk, or by adding a new disk.
1082 [16:29:49] <jelly> if you don't use LVM but partitions instead, you'll have some extra steps if disks can be resized
1083 [16:29:49] <Streusel> I do need to use LVM, but at the moment, because it's a vps I doubt it's the necessary thing to do.
1084 [16:30:10] <Streusel> If I say.. need to update the thing to a dedi so I can upgrade to a 1tb or 2tb drive, I'll have to redo everything.
1085 [16:30:12] <roycroft> i've found lvm to be really solid these days, and i use it on all systems i build
1086 [16:30:18] <ratrace> Streusel: one would thinkn that this problem would've taught a lesson and made you pre-empt it in the future by using LVM now
1087 [16:30:20] <jelly> if disks can only be added, you won't be able to have a single filesystem spanning more than one disk
1088 [16:31:27] <Streusel> That's the thing, at the moment I can only add disk, but in 100-500gb increments, that's not worth it in the long term, I can add 1 more before price to storage becomes a question, might as well then switch to a dedi with similar storage options and go the proper way there.
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1090 [16:31:56] <jelly> Streusel: if the provider can only add new disks, use lvm right now.
1091 [16:32:07] <Streusel> Any good resource on how to make an lvm? so I can read up on it beforehand
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1093 [16:32:30] <roycroft> which is kind of funny, because i was hired in 2000 as director of data network services at a telco, who operated an isp, and the first thing i did was have all the linux machines rebuilt without lvm, because it was really flaky back then and staff were rebuilding filesystems almost weekly due to corruption
1094 [16:32:38] <roycroft> i was sour on lvm for a long, long time after that
1095 [16:32:46] <roycroft> but it works brilliantly these days
1096 [16:33:23] <jelly> Streusel: pvcreate /dev/sdb; vgcreate vg1 /dev/sdb; lvcreate -L 90G -n replaced-url
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1098 [16:33:42] <jelly> do NOT partition the disk
1099 [16:34:33] <jelly> (why 90G useful and not 100? Because you can play with snapshots and consistent backups if you leave some space)
1100 [16:35:52] <jelly> and later, after you free space on /dev/sda1, you might even reduce that filesystem size from a livecd and add more space for LVM to use
1101 [16:36:01] <roycroft> a good practice is to only create the logical volume with as much disk as you need including anticipated growth over the next year, with a little bit more, and leave part of storage unallocated
1102 [16:36:09] <jelly> yes
1103 [16:36:12] <Streusel> sda1 might stay for my sql server
1104 [16:36:23] <roycroft> then you can create a new lv if you need to with the reserved space, or extend the existing logical volume
1105 [16:36:25] <Streusel> unless I offload that at some point
1106 [16:36:47] <roycroft> some filesystems let you shrink them, but some do not
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1108 [16:37:29] <roycroft> it's easier to be conservative about your sizing and reserve as much unallocated storage as possible, rather than to overallocate and come up short if you need more storage for something else
1109 [16:37:57] <roycroft> even those filesystem types that can be shrunk are easier to expand than to shrink
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1111 [16:38:51] <jelly> ext4 and xfs can be expanded online without reboot
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1113 [16:39:03] <jelly> ext4 can only be shrunk offline. xfs... can't
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1117 [16:41:42] <roycroft> coming from a bsd world, i like xfs a lot
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1119 [16:42:01] <roycroft> and i don't care that it can't be shrunk
1120 [16:42:44] <roycroft> but there are a number of filesystems for linux that work just fine
1121 [16:43:56] <hop> Streusel: take it offline, copy the data, check it, delete the old data before mounting the new partition to /var/replaced-url
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1125 [16:44:41] <Streusel> take it offline web wise nginx/apache or some other meaning behind it?
1126 [16:45:05] <hop> Streusel: yes, like that. just to make sure the data doesn't get modified while you are copying it
1127 [16:45:15] <Streusel> Ahh yes
1128 [16:45:16] <roycroft> usually just kill the web server
1129 [16:45:18] <roycroft> however
1130 [16:45:23] <Streusel> Already turned off cronjobs and other things
1131 [16:45:26] <roycroft> if you have cron jobs that update the data you need to disable them
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1133 [16:45:44] <hop> Streusel: i lost track. have you decided on lvm?
1134 [16:45:50] <roycroft> if you have ~ websites you have to disable ftp or whatever your users use to update their websites
1135 [16:46:32] <Streusel> I have to for the dedicated, which'll likely be in February. hop
1136 [16:46:50] <roycroft> renaming your web root up front helps ensure that nothing unanticipated will be able to write to it while you're copying
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1138 [16:47:42] <hop> Streusel: if i had to learn how to use lvm on top of everything else, i wouldn't bother with it, either. at least not for a couple gig of pure data
1139 [16:48:09] <Streusel> roycroft a simple mv /var/replaced-url
1140 [16:48:09] <hop> Streusel: but play around with on the new machine before going into production
1141 [16:48:16] <roycroft> yes
1142 [16:48:17] <roycroft> however
1143 [16:48:19] <Streusel> Yeah that for sure hop
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1145 [16:48:40] <Streusel> This taught me a lesson to think ahead :|
1146 [16:48:46] <roycroft> if there are any files open in /var/replaced-url
1147 [16:49:03] <Streusel> right, take offline first then move
1148 [16:49:05] <hop> that's why i didn't mention that (: false sense of security
1149 [16:49:20] <roycroft> if you want to be really safe, and if you can, do the mv, then reboot before you do anything else
1150 [16:49:38] <roycroft> that will ensure there are no open files writing to /var/replaced-url
1151 [16:49:43] <roycroft> er
1152 [16:49:50] <roycroft> /var/replaced-url
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1154 [16:50:52] <roycroft> that's why you have to send SIGHUP to your web server after you do log rotation - it has all the log files open, and will keep writing to the renamed logs until you reload
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1161 [16:57:04] <wrksx> hello there
1162 [16:57:49] <Streusel> let's see how long the transfer takes, running 5minutes now.
1163 [16:58:14] <hop> o.o?
1164 [16:58:19] <wrksx> some time ago I found a way to use a fixed package list based on a date, and that was usable in a apt sourcelist, but I can't find it anymore
1165 [16:58:52] <imMute> wrksx: snapshot.debian.org
1166 [16:58:56] <wrksx> specially usefull in docker since it alows for replayable builds
1167 [16:59:06] <wrksx> imMute oh ty I'll check it out
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1170 [17:07:03] <hop> Streusel: still copying?
1171 [17:07:12] <Streusel> yep
1172 [17:07:35] <hop> Streusel: i'd ask for my money back, except this sounds like the free plan :-D
1173 [17:07:55] <Streusel> I mean.. considering roughly 100k folders, and ~500 subfolders in total ea subfolder containing between 5 and 50 files
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1175 [17:09:25] <hop> Streusel: directories, not folders
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1177 [17:09:32] <Streusel> yes
1178 [17:09:39] <hop> Streusel: are those 100k all in one directory??
1179 [17:09:55] <hop> like, on one level
1180 [17:09:56] <Streusel> all under /var/replaced-url
1181 [17:10:02] <Streusel> yes
1182 [17:10:32] <hop> i'm not sure about that nowadays, but that used to be a big problem
1183 [17:10:36] <hop> performance-wise
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1185 [17:10:59] <Streusel> can't think of a different way of doing it at the moment
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1189 [17:12:36] <hop> some kind of hashing scheme, usually
1190 [17:13:06] <hop> split it into subdirectories based on the first two letters of the name, for example
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1192 [17:14:19] <Streusel> 1 -> +100k dir ea dir has the potential for 0 - +1000 subdirs (no dirs after, just images)
1193 [17:15:05] <Streusel> I'd draw a picture but I suck at that, and don't have an editor or mouse at hand
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1195 [17:16:14] <Streusel> copying done
1196 [17:16:31] <imMute> the git object store works like that. seems to work well for very large repos like the linux source tree
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1199 [17:17:18] *** Quits: Kuttenbrunzer (~Kuttenbru@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Where is it)
1200 [17:17:19] <hop> imMute: works like what?
1201 [17:17:26] *** Quits: kgfgdf (b2319855@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1202 [17:18:10] <imMute> file are named by the sha1 digest of the contents. the filesystem is .git/objects/XX/YYYYYYYYYYYY where XX is the first two hex digits of the digest, and YYYY... is the rest.
1203 [17:18:23] <hop> imMute: well, i didn't come up with the idea myself…
1204 [17:18:37] <hop> seems like someone with cs knowledge worked on git ><
1205 [17:18:57] <imMute> Torvalds himself did that, but I'm guessing he drew inspiration from somewhere else too
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1207 [17:19:27] <hop> ...
1208 [17:19:56] <hop> we are so deep in the dark ages, it isn't even funny
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1210 [17:22:10] <imMute> ???
1211 [17:22:44] <hop> so that i'm not _just_ snarky: it works because sha hashes are evenly distributed. any two-letter combination is equally likely for XX and so the objects themselves are about evenly distributed
1212 [17:23:12] <hop> if you were to use dates as names, just for example, this system would not work at all
1213 [17:23:12] <imMute> ah, yeah, that's why it works
1214 [17:23:34] <imMute> if you used the least significant digits of the decimal unix timestamp, it could work
1215 [17:23:35] <hop> if you were to use unix time, for example, you could use the _last_ bits
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1217 [17:24:30] <hop> my comment about the dark ages was in regards to this not being alchemy. we _know_ why and how such things work, no need for cargo culting
1218 [17:24:33] <jelly> we hash users' home dirs by computing... I think crc16 of the username
1219 [17:24:56] <imMute> halabund: aha
1220 [17:25:02] <hop> jelly: OO. oh noes! the humanity! crc16 is not cryptographically safe!!!!1eleven
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1222 [17:25:22] <halabund> ?
1223 [17:25:35] <hop> i can't tell you how often i get flac for still using md5 in on project
1224 [17:25:38] <hop> *one
1225 [17:25:47] <hop> halabund: i think that was meant for me
1226 [17:25:52] <jelly> md5sum is nice and even too
1227 [17:25:52] <halabund> :-)
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1229 [17:27:41] <hop> yes, and it's fast. completely demonizing it is just as much cargo culting
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1238 [17:31:50] <ratrace> nginx uses last N chars of the URL md5 for caching, for example
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1241 [17:32:57] <hop> valid, but it seems an unnecessary step
1242 [17:33:07] <hop> also, i /could/ see where this is security relevant
1243 [17:33:37] <Streusel> unmounting/remounting was successful! \o/
1244 [17:33:39] <jelly> I usually eyeball first 4 and last 4 hex chars if I'm too lazy to copy/paste in the same terminal
1245 [17:33:59] <hop> jelly: shush!
1246 [17:34:10] <hop> jelly: we all do it, but if it gets out, we are screwed
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1248 [17:34:49] <jelly> very-fast-switching-tmux/screen-to-and-fro is better
1249 [17:35:17] <jelly> if you can manage to put the checksum in the exact same place in the terminal
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1251 [17:35:37] <roycroft> or just do a diff on the outputs if you really want to be lazy but accurate
1252 [17:35:44] <hop> Streusel: do you care about file modification/access times at all?
1253 [17:35:59] <Streusel> nope
1254 [17:36:00] <jelly> roycroft: but then you have to put them on the same system somehow
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1256 [17:36:18] <hop> Streusel: you could mount it with noatime,nodiratime
1257 [17:36:19] <roycroft> ssh can help with that
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1259 [17:36:45] <jelly> roycroft: well okay. I've done diff -bdu <(ssh server1 cat /etc/some/config) <(ssh server2 cat /the/same/thing)
1260 [17:37:41] <jelly> crosses the line of "too silly" for me
1261 [17:37:56] <roycroft> i like lazy but accurate
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1263 [17:38:12] <Streusel> Interesting, didn't know that existed. hop
1264 [17:38:28] <roycroft> noatime will improve performance
1265 [17:38:50] <Streusel> already added
1266 [17:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1204
1267 [17:39:23] <Streusel> going to test out fstab as well to see if it's probably configured, no idea what the last 2 digits are, suggestions were 0 0
1268 [17:39:35] <roycroft> i personally like to preserve as much metadata as possible unless there's a compelling reason not to
1269 [17:39:52] <jelly> 0 2 for a non-root filesystem that you'd still like to get checked regularly
1270 [17:40:28] <ratrace> no, what nginx does for caching, is convert URL to md5, then that hash becomes the filename, and then if you defined N levels of directories, it uses N last chars to name directory hiearchy. eg if you md5 ends in abcde, then nginx will store it in /path/to/cache/e/d/c/....abcde
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1274 [17:40:55] <jelly> I don't remember, does one have to "systemctl daemon-reload" after editing fstab these days
1275 [17:41:15] <jelly> because fstab is just a source file for some systemd generator
1276 [17:41:16] <hop> auto fsck on boot kicks in when you can't afford it right now. without fail
1277 [17:41:21] <imMute> jelly: if you care about the .mount units getting modified, yes.
1278 [17:41:22] <ratrace> jelly: nope
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1280 [17:41:48] <ratrace> daemon-reload retriggers generators?
1281 [17:41:52] <imMute> ratrace: yes.
1282 [17:42:02] <jelly> ratrace: I've found a situation where _something_ unmounted my fs under my feet without that, but I can't remember the details
1283 [17:42:20] <hop> ratrace: i very much understood that. what is the "no" referring to?
1284 [17:42:43] <jelly> may have involved changing UUIDs or LABELS on existent fs
1285 [17:42:56] <roycroft> or you can do mount -o remount /mount/point
1286 [17:43:22] <roycroft> and you can change mount options on the fly
1287 [17:43:36] <jelly> so "mount -a" worked, but then something would umount the thing in a couple seconds
1288 [17:43:38] <ratrace> imMute: but surely calling daemon reload won't remount things if fstab changed? that'd be very much new to me
1289 [17:43:39] <roycroft> i said earlier that i like to rename a hierarchy before copying it
1290 [17:44:00] <roycroft> so if /var/replaced-url
1291 [17:44:06] <jelly> ratrace: systemd would keep unmounting a changed fs or a changed mountpoint, don't remmebe
1292 [17:44:12] <ratrace> jelly: oof, rings a bell but I can't remember right now what in systemd did that
1293 [17:44:13] <roycroft> and then you don't have to rename it before copying
1294 [17:45:08] <roycroft> but consult the mount man page for your particular filesystem type to ensure that the mount options you wish are supported and work as you expect
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1299 [17:47:50] <ratrace> jelly: iirc, there used to be a problem if you manually mounted something to a mountpoint defined in fstab but for something else.
1300 [17:48:09] <jelly> could be
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1302 [17:48:26] <ratrace> like, you define in fstab that /dev/a mounts to /mnt/a, but later manually mount something else to /mnt/a (assuming of course /dev/a is umounted)
1303 [17:48:45] <ratrace> can't remember the details but I think systemd had or still has that very annyoing habit
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1305 [17:49:09] <jelly> I think I umounted old fs, changed the definition to a different source, mounted it with "mount -a" and then systemd unmounted it
1306 [17:49:29] <imMute> ratrace: no, I wouldn't think that would happen
1307 [17:49:43] <ratrace> maybe in that case daemon-reload IS needed then.
1308 [17:49:45] <jelly> it was basically gaslighting me for a bit
1309 [17:50:05] <jelly> thought I was going crazy, etc
1310 [17:50:09] <ratrace> but it'd be news to me if daemon-reload ran remounts
1311 [17:50:17] <imMute> ratrace: if you change any of the config files, you need daemon-reload for systemd to notice them
1312 [17:50:26] <jelly> it did not do remounts, but lack of it did umounts.
1313 [17:50:35] <ratrace> yes I know that. I'm talking about actually doing RE-mounts via daemon-reload
1314 [17:51:04] <ratrace> jelly: that's it then, the .mount units actively "protecting" the mountpoints
1315 [17:51:09] <jelly> would that be an equivalent of reloading the unit
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1317 [17:51:44] <jelly> protecting against admin
1318 [17:52:26] <ratrace> now add ZFS to the mix and you have a recipe for a ruined weekend, as I once had the unpleasure of .... having :)
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1326 [17:56:18] <iliv> is the jessie-backports APT repo no longer avaialbe?
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1328 [17:59:27] <iliv> oh okay
1329 [17:59:32] <iliv> they were moved to the archive
1330 [17:59:35] <iliv> never mind
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1332 [18:02:48] <alex11> jessie is long extinct and you shouldn't be running it on the internet anyway
1333 [18:03:03] <iliv> oh, the IRC :)
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1335 [18:03:10] <iliv> thank you for the reminder, sir
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1337 [18:05:00] <ratrace> it's great, innit!
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1389 [18:38:16] <invizus> is it possible in preseed/d-i to copy all files to target dir, using wildcard? i.e. cp /extras/* /target/root/
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1403 [19:01:29] <wikan> i have pavucontrol issue. It hangs system.
1404 [19:01:48] <wikan> it hangs system always but not just after it is launched
1405 [19:02:14] <wikan> it may be running for 20 minutes or 4 hourse... and bam system hung
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1407 [19:02:30] <wikan> it is happening only when pavucontrol is running
1408 [19:02:51] <wikan> no logs, can't find anything
1409 [19:03:12] <wikan> did anyone heard about this?
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1411 [19:06:06] <jmcnaught> wikan: does "journalctl --user-unit pulseaudio.service" show any clues. Or have you tried running pavucontrol from a terminal to see its stdout/stderr output?
1412 [19:06:21] <wikan> nothing
1413 [19:06:42] <wikan> i didnt
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1415 [19:08:04] <wikan> i am going to remove pulse anyway so... ;) hope it is possible
1416 [19:08:19] <wikan> it is annoying
1417 [19:08:49] <wikan> it can't detect if headphones are plugged or not
1418 [19:08:51] <jmcnaught> Which release of Debian?
1419 [19:08:59] <wikan> but it will detect it when I kill pulse
1420 [19:09:23] <wikan> then it will work for few days but will stop detecting anyway
1421 [19:09:56] <wikan> 10
1422 [19:10:01] <wikan> debian 10
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1424 [19:13:36] <wikan> and btw, something is wrong with pulse because sometimes it losts settings
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1428 [19:14:18] <wikan> i have set right/left to 100% 50% because of temporary issue with my ear
1429 [19:14:33] <wikan> it worked for 4 days and pulse lost settings
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1432 [19:15:09] <wikan> so it is hard to say why and what was happen ;)
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1467 [19:42:22] <jmcnaught> wikan: maybe try a different user account on your computer for a bit, see if it happens there too.
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1516 [20:33:04] <codedmart> I am curious how many in here run sid and why?
1517 [20:33:27] <sney> #debian-next on OFTC will typically have more sid users than here
1518 [20:34:31] <sney> broadly, experienced debian users who don't mind tinkering with their systems to keep things working, will use testing or sid and get newer software and other features that may not be available in stable
1519 [20:35:03] <sney> !moving target
1520 [20:35:03] <dpkg> Sure, testing might be shinier than stable, but are you prepared to be continually updating your system? Things that worked today will break tomorrow. Configuration file formats will change and you'll have to fold your changes in yet again. Testing is a moving target and if you'd rather work *with* your computer than working *on* your computer, you might not want that. See <testing security>.
1521 [20:35:17] <greycat> *really* experienced users just run stable, because we outgrew the SNS crap long ago
1522 [20:35:31] <sney> depending on the use case, of course.
1523 [20:36:00] * sney is a testing on the desktop, stable everywhere else, kind of debian user
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1525 [20:36:29] <ratrace> actually, we all really want !sns, it's just those of us using Stable are too lazy to Sid :)
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1527 [20:37:27] <sney> codedmart: you will probably never get a clear "how many" answer, though.
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1529 [20:37:42] <codedmart> Yeah I ran arch for a long time and moved to debian because I was tired of updating. Arch didn't break all that often to be honest.
1530 [20:38:19] <codedmart> I would like a newer version of gnome, but it isn't that big of a deal really. I just keep trying to talk myself into trying sid for some reason.
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1532 [20:38:38] <sney> I've been using bullseye for over a year now and it hasn't broken "often" either. but there were a couple times that my experience came in handy to untangle something. and I've plenty of support queries about stuff I don't personally use.
1533 [20:38:50] <sney> *seen
1534 [20:39:00] <ratrace> codedmart: you can try gnome via snap maybe. Ubuntu is installing it that way
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1537 [20:39:17] <n4dir> codedmart: use an emulator or old hardware from the basement to give Sid a try
1538 [20:39:38] <n4dir> the people you ask will give different answers. Only you can decide
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1540 [20:39:43] <codedmart> ratrace Yeah no interest in snap really.
1541 [20:39:46] <n4dir> or dual-boot or such. Many options
1542 [20:40:06] <sney> yep, any reasonably modern PC can virtualize a whole nother debian for you to try out.
1543 [20:40:18] <codedmart> Yeah I know there are options
1544 [20:40:57] <n4dir> but if one is looking for such, newest version, then debian is probably not the right distribution. Even Sid has a cold now and then (the freeze)
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1546 [20:41:56] <n4dir> i mainly gave Sid a try to check how long it takes to break it. Didn't break for years and years. So i just kept it.
1547 [20:43:21] <n4dir> that is not an argument for Sid not breaking though. Just the reason why i ran it
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1554 [20:50:15] <codedmart> n4dir Ran it as in you don't anymore?
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1558 [20:50:58] <n4dir> no, not anymore. I didn't use debian(based) for a while, and now stick to stable.
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1561 [20:52:15] <n4dir> a) i don't care for versions, hardly know them and b) i sometimes don't start the PC for months, so don't upgrade that often
1562 [20:52:55] <ratrace> you don't start the PC for months, I don't reboot it for months :)
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1569 [21:01:29] <zeroed> Hello Folks. I found many things on CPU frequency control between `cpufreq-info` and `/proc/cpuinfo`, adding the temperature details of `sensors`. What I did not find is what I would like to ask you: Where I can see (if possible) the "target" temperature that triggers the fans? Thanks
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1577 [21:10:16] <diogenes_> zeroed, maybe BIOS contains that info.
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1580 [21:12:58] <bla> Hi.
1581 [21:13:43] <bla> My pidgin suddently stopped connecting to ejabberd with "handshake failed" and it's a bit too vague to pinpoint the issue. Other collegue can connect with his pidgin (windows) still.
1582 [21:13:49] <bla> Any idea how to debug it?
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1584 [21:14:20] <sney> start pidgin from a terminal, it may print more useful errors
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1586 [21:14:32] <bla> That handshake failed is terminal with -d -d -d -d -d -d
1587 [21:14:32] <zeroed> diogenes_: Thanks. I see; I was wishfully thinking of get away with my curiosity reading from a file, but surely is worth trying.
1588 [21:15:20] <sney> maybe it's a ssl issue, check the clock, cert age, usual ssl stuff
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1590 [21:16:00] <bla> sney: I did; it checks out, although it's a self-signed. But pidgin allowed to remember it just fine.
1591 [21:16:16] <bla> It's certainly SOME ssl/tls issue.
1592 [21:16:40] <ratrace> maybe the self signed cert expired
1593 [21:16:46] <bla> It's ok until 2040.
1594 [21:16:55] <ratrace> blasphemy!
1595 [21:16:57] <bla> Also - collegue still can connect. Didn't even get a prompt about new certificate
1596 [21:17:15] <bla> Since 2040 I have time to configure let's encrypt. ;-)
1597 [21:17:23] <bla> Still it's really fine.
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1600 [21:19:03] <bla> I've googled also: nss: Handshake failed (-12251) - the number. But I can't seem to find anything.
1601 [21:19:07] <bla> But it might tell you something?
1602 [21:19:21] <bla> Currently I'm trying to catch the function failing with gdb... but that's a bit harsh.
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1608 [21:26:25] <bla> And I can only tell that purple_connection_ssl_error is called. Meh. Would have to compile it probably.
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1626 [21:37:55] <eth01> hi, looking for some help, getting this error: replaced-url
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1628 [21:38:58] <isapgswell> hi
1629 [21:39:27] <isapgswell> how can i enable touchpad click right click on debian?
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1633 [21:41:59] <overlisted> what desktop environment do you have?
1634 [21:42:03] <overlisted> isapgswell:
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1636 [21:44:40] <otisolsen70_> Is oilshell packaged for debian? Cannot seem to find it.
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1642 [21:47:33] <overlisted> what is the package's name in other distros?
1643 [21:47:41] <overlisted> i will try to find it on pkgs.org
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1645 [21:48:11] <greycat> or, what is the (path)name of one of the files you expect to be in the package?
1646 [21:49:30] <hop> it's written in python, use pipx to install it
1647 [21:49:46] <lusrx> windows 10 thinks debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso is Trojan:Win32/Zpevdo.B. is this a false positive?
1648 [21:49:57] <lusrx> i got it from replaced-url
1649 [21:50:27] <hop> lusrx: replaced-url
1650 [21:50:34] <overlisted> it can't be a win32 trojan lol
1651 [21:51:10] <greycat> since it's not a stable image, #debian-next or #debian-boot on the other network might know more about these images
1652 [21:51:12] <overlisted> (it can mount the windows drive and do stuff but nobody wants to develop this)
1653 [21:51:14] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1654 [21:51:18] <hop> ah, testing
1655 [21:51:56] <overlisted> #debian-next is invite-only, how can i join then?
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1658 [21:52:07] <nkuttler> !oftc
1659 [21:52:07] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
1660 [21:52:12] <nkuttler> overlisted: ^^
1661 [21:52:13] <greycat> On. The. Other. Network.
1662 [21:52:18] <overlisted> oh
1663 [21:52:20] <overlisted> ...
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1666 [21:53:37] <ratrace> never fails :)
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1669 [21:55:37] <lusrx> so how do i verify? the file has sha256: 69CD7A03E4A344D8487B1E2B08F80C6E4C5FA9E5D4D622662D05504BDD4BB9BF
1670 [21:56:04] <greycat> sha256sum yourfile.iso
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1672 [21:56:31] <overlisted> on windows there's a powershell command for sha'ing
1673 [21:56:41] <ratrace> replaced-url
1674 [21:56:55] <hop> that's the less interesting part. you need pgp to verify the sums file
1675 [21:57:30] <ratrace> https conn to the debian.org checksums suffices
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1677 [21:57:50] <overlisted> ...and to verify something else and finally be sure you need to ask your irl friend that has a verified debian cd image...
1678 [21:57:57] <overlisted> finally be safe*
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1682 [22:04:16] <ChiLLabiS> Hi! Does Huawei laptops run good on Debian out of the box?
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1684 [22:05:37] <lusrx> i used a tool called hashTab
1685 [22:05:58] <lusrx> in powershell: certUtil -hashfile .\debian-testing-amd64-netinst.iso SHA256
1686 [22:06:10] <lusrx> output: 3cd36d739ca8a26711129ac9e960956fae384ee29748d00443b1357d1e6cb9b4
1687 [22:06:41] <lusrx> not same as previous... not sure what to make of it. can you point me to a tutorial or something how this is done? on windows...
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1689 [22:08:12] <ratrace> that doesn't seem to be the correct hash.... replaced-url
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1694 [22:10:15] <hop> hence the pgp-part
1695 [22:10:20] <hop> who knows from when this image is
1696 [22:10:34] <ratrace> right
1697 [22:10:53] <ratrace> lusrx: just redownload it from here: replaced-url
1698 [22:11:14] <hop> recommend torrent, at least
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1701 [22:12:28] <lusrx> 457M vs. 353M they are not even the same size. just same name.
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1706 [22:14:33] <lusrx> powershell was right: replaced-url
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1709 [22:14:52] <lusrx> i got a match at source i downloaded from
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1712 [22:15:26] <lusrx> so all should be good then i guess. unless someone has spoofed the number
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1715 [22:16:32] <hop> well… if somebody put a trojan in the iso image, they /probably/ also spoofed the hash on the same site…
1716 [22:16:47] <hop> like, the bible is true because the bible said so
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1718 [22:17:28] <ratrace> right, I wouldn't trust the shasums file from the _same_ mirror
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1720 [22:17:54] <another> unless they're signed
1721 [22:17:59] <ratrace> ideally gpg verification is best, using the key you already own in some debian installation, but that's a catch 22 there, so.... closest is to check against shasums from other places
1722 [22:18:08] <hop> sheesh
1723 [22:18:55] <lusrx> sha3-256 is a thing? wow. i see why my number from the other tool didn't add up
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1725 [22:19:55] <lusrx> i will make a leap of faith and "just do it".
1726 [22:20:14] <lusrx> thanks!
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1729 [22:21:14] <hop> i think they were comparing against the wrong hash file… the 3cd… is correct, but not for the weekley netinst isp
1730 [22:21:17] <hop> iso
1731 [22:21:45] <hop> short attention span is a drag
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1759 [22:58:33] <azubieta> Hi, is there any apt-get expert around ? I need some help with this issue replaced-url
1760 [22:59:03] <azubieta> it's about making apt-get ignoring the configuration parts files
1761 [23:00:15] <sney> apt-get update only synchronizes mirror data with the local cache, it does not download any icons or desktop files
1762 [23:00:33] <sney> those are in packages, usually with the -common suffix
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1769 [23:03:28] <sney> see the man page for apt.conf for a list of other Apt:: options that can be used to control the other behavior
1770 [23:03:33] <azubieta> Hi sney, when apt-get update runs it retrieves several listings, besides the Packages one, depending on the system configuration
1771 [23:04:09] <another> apt-get update downloads the package lists
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1773 [23:04:27] <azubieta> By example in my system apt-get update downloads `DEP-11 Metadata`, `DEP-11 48x48 Icons` and `amd64 Contents`
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1776 [23:05:29] <azubieta> the instructions to download such listings are in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/
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1778 [23:06:04] <azubieta> what I want to do is avoid apt-get reading such files without change the files or the names
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1780 [23:06:40] <azubieta> I tired setting Dir::Etc::SourceParts in the apt.conf but it didn't worked as I expected
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1784 [23:09:18] <sney> ah, dep-11 stuff, which aiui is for graphical package managers mainly. looks like it is configured in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50appstream
1785 [23:09:47] <sney> I haven't tried it, but deleting/moving that file should stop those downloads
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1789 [23:10:56] <sney> or purge the appstream package itself, actually. (purge is needed in this case since it's a conffile.)
1790 [23:10:59] <azubieta> sney, that's correct, notice that my use case for apt-get is downloading only the packages that will be later deployed inside an AppImage, therefore I only need the package
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1792 [23:11:28] <sney> yeah so if you exclude the appstream package from your build chroot that should take care of it
1793 [23:11:33] <another> sney: which package pulled appstream to your system?
1794 [23:11:46] <sney> on my desktop, plasma-discover
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1797 [23:12:34] <azubieta> same here, what I'm trying to do is a sort of chroot using apt-get
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1799 [23:12:53] <lnxslck> evening programs
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1801 [23:13:33] <sney> yes, if you're building software that should be done in an isolated chroot so you don't get gunk from your personal system. debian has tools for this for creating .deb packages, I'd be surprised if there isn't something similar for appimage
1802 [23:13:40] <lnxslck> is there a channel more appropriate to talk about debian packages?
1803 [23:13:57] <sney> lnxslck: #packaging or #debian-mentors, on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode)
1804 [23:14:13] <lnxslck> ok, different server then
1805 [23:14:24] <sney> #debian-mentors is for packages that will be submitted to debian, and #packaging is for everything else
1806 [23:14:41] <lnxslck> thank you sney
1807 [23:14:44] <sney> np
1808 [23:14:46] <azubieta> so I could get help there?
1809 [23:14:59] <sney> azubieta: neither channel is for appimage help
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1811 [23:15:26] <lnxslck> azubieta: hey man !
1812 [23:15:39] <sney> azubieta: if you make sure appstream is not installed in your build chroot, that will resolve your issue. how you accomplish that is up to you, since appimage isn't really a debian thing
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1814 [23:15:48] <azubieta> Oh, I'm an AppImage developer, I need help configuring this bit of apt-get
1815 [23:15:53] <azubieta> hello lnxslck !
1816 [23:16:14] <azubieta> sney, with appimage-builder I'm not creating a chroot :(
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1820 [23:16:56] <sney> azubieta: for best results, don't build software for public distribution on your personal system. if appimage doesn't have tools for this, use a VM or lxc
1821 [23:17:39] <azubieta> sney that's correct, maybe I'm just being to picky and trying to optimize too much
1822 [23:17:45] <azubieta> this is not a critical issue
1823 [23:17:49] <sney> azubieta: check if someone made an equivalent to "pbuilder" for appimage. this is how debian packages are made, clean from anything on the package maintainer's pc
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1826 [23:18:35] <azubieta> I'll indeed take a look to pbuilder itself :), thanks for you help sney
1827 [23:18:40] <sney> np
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