People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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56 [01:05:04] <tabb> how can set my tower pc to turn off monitor when idle with debian 10.6 gnome 3.30, the only option seems to be for laptop and currently it goes only black, not turned off
57 [01:06:16] <sney> putting the monitor on powersave is standard for all systems, do you have the firmware installed for your gpu? it may be missing a powersave feature if not
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70 [01:13:55] <Brigo> tabb, check /etc/systemd/logind.conf
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77 [01:17:49] <tabb> Brigo, but that is for the pc itself, not just the monitor right
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90 [01:26:51] <jmcnaught> tabb: using Debian 10.6 with GNOME here and if I set "Blank screen" to 1 minute (under Settings, Power) then it fades to black and turns off the monitor, and locks the screen.
91 [01:27:11] <jmcnaught> tabb: does the monitor turn off if you lock the screen with Super+L ?
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99 [01:38:47] <tabb> Llyes jmcnaught super+l lock the screen
100 [01:40:02] <jmcnaught> Does the monitor turn off when the screen is locked?
101 [01:40:26] <tabb> with super+l yes
102 [01:40:33] <tabb> but not if i only idle
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104 [01:43:18] <jmcnaught> Normally I have "Blank screen" set to "Never", but I tested it on my desktop and laptop set to "1 minute". Both systems turned the display off a few seconds after fading to black.
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107 [01:44:31] <tabb> strange..
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112 [01:47:36] <tabb> and where can i turn off the activites button?
113 [01:48:55] <jmcnaught> With an extension. "apt search gnome-shell-extension" or replaced-url
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115 [01:50:07] <jmcnaught> Configure extentions in the "Tweaks" program.
116 [01:50:13] <tabb> thanks
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202 [03:17:23] <euzao> hey
203 [03:17:28] <euzao> <euzao> I am having a problem using MATE on Debian Stable. I am getting this error while using mate-power-statistics
204 [03:17:35] <euzao> GDbus.error:org.freedesktop.Upower.GeneralError:cannot enable timerstats
205 [03:17:49] <euzao> I am running latest Debian Stable with Linux 5.8 from backports
206 [03:19:08] <alex11> does it cause any problems to happen or is it just a generic warning?
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208 [03:19:20] <euzao> just a generic warning, nothing happens.
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212 [03:19:49] <alex11> by nothing happens do you mean mate-power-statistics doesn't launch? or just that the message doesn't seem to affect anything?
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214 [03:20:51] <euzao> it does launch, but it shows that error. Take a look: replaced-url
215 [03:21:25] <euzao> Is that how it goes?
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228 [03:28:19] <alex11> normally i wouldn't worry too much about a random message but there don't appear to be any entries in power statistics
229 [03:28:31] <alex11> so that's probably a problem
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260 [03:58:18] <monoxane> hey all, one of my servers has been dropping a *LOT* of packets recently, monitoring is showing over 10%, im currently observing it with dropwatch and most of them are related to neigh_invalidate, which i think is related to ARP. the server has a native VLAN and 1 tagged VLAN over an active LACP bond, ive tried removing the tagged vlan and reducing
261 [03:58:18] <monoxane> it to a single unbound connection but that didnt make a functional different to the droprate. any ideas?
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311 [04:38:39] <kingsley> My artistic interpretation of Debian's cool swirl logo is at
312 [04:38:48] <kingsley> replaced-url
313 [04:39:13] <alex11> that's cool
314 [04:39:41] <ltl2> I like it
315 [04:41:13] <kingsley> alex11: Thanks. If it would be comfortable, convenient, and all those good things, feel free to critique its individual artistic aspects. You know: color, composition, depth, etc...
316 [04:41:30] <kingsley> ltl2: You too.
317 [04:41:35] <weaselhtml> well, I've poisoned this bouncer
318 [04:41:36] <alex11> the bright green text is maybe a bit too prominent
319 [04:41:39] <weaselhtml> time to IP hop to bypass bans :D
320 [04:41:45] <sponix> kingsley: there is some sort of logo contest going on right now for the Debian 11 logo (see phoronix for a link). They already have like 12 to choose from on this one, but you might try to get in on the next one
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322 [04:42:35] <kingsley> sponix: Thanks. That all makes sense. Yes, the current contest inspired mine.
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325 [04:56:04] <kingsley> alex11: I read your very nice comment and spent a few minutes experimenting with ways to make the bright green text in my swirl logo less prominent. I tried different color, and various color gradients. I found some that were less prominent, but IMHO, seemed less legible. Feel free to suggest a specific improvement, or better yet, edit my draft!
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331 [05:09:57] <weaselhtml> GIVE ME A K-LINE
332 [05:09:57] <weaselhtml> GIVE ME A K-LINE
333 [05:09:58] <weaselhtml> GIVE ME A K-LINE
334 [05:09:58] <weaselhtml> GIVE ME A K-LINE
335 [05:09:59] <weaselhtml> GIVE ME A K-LINE
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388 [06:48:05] <alex11> how are dependencies actually determined in debian?
389 [06:48:15] <alex11> i assume the maintainer doesn't just guess
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392 [06:51:55] <well_laid_lawn> generally the people who wrote the program list the dependencies
393 [06:52:43] <well_laid_lawn> building the program will have the compiler producing errors if dependencies aren't met
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405 [07:13:25] <n4dir> alex11: probably out of date, i don't know, but that is the general idea, as far i can tell: replaced-url
406 [07:14:28] <n4dir> else something like an INSTALL or README in the source code often contains such info, of course
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455 [08:27:10] <iamjfk11> -.-
456 [08:28:41] <alex11> -_-
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482 [08:56:35] <danuan> trying to figure out if there is a way of starting nfs-kernel-server without portmap running
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549 [09:56:15] <tlatelolco> Hello! I ha
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561 [10:05:29] <ratrace> you wha
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563 [10:06:10] <jelly> danuan: even if you start it, it won't work without portmap / rpcbind
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565 [10:07:43] <danuan> works fine if i start nfs-kernel-server while portmap is running ,, and then kill portmap and all rpc stuff , nfs-kernel-server keeps on running just fine till next reboot with any problems on clients
566 [10:08:03] <danuan> and all documentation online says portmap is not needed for nfsv4
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569 [10:09:14] <ratrace> danuan: is there a systemd service unit for it?
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571 [10:10:16] <danuan> sorry nonsystemd, devuan but figured you guys might know
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573 [10:11:14] <jelly> danuan: I bet no new clients can connect if portmap does not advertise where nfs server is.
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575 [10:11:23] <jelly> !devuan
576 [10:11:24] <dpkg> Devuan (replaced-url
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578 [10:12:13] <jelly> danuan: we try to avoid answering questions about derivative distros because we don't know what was changed
579 [10:12:51] <jelly> (also, don't want to be overwhelmed by ubuntu users)
580 [10:15:12] <ratrace> I don't try, I actively avoid and shame. :)
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582 [10:15:21] <ratrace> I don't *just try ...
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624 [11:35:58] <gvth> Hi; I have a pdf-document with four pages and I need this document as a one-pager where all of the pages are catenated horizontally. Is there a simple command line for this or isn't this so trivial?
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626 [11:36:41] <themill> pdfnup should be able to do that
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628 [11:38:29] <themill> it's in texlive-extra-utils; "pdfnup --nup 4x1" would be the starting point; you might want other options about sizes, offsets, margins, frames, headers, footers.
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631 [11:40:43] <gvth> uh, installing texlive-extra-utils with its dependancies takes almost one GiB of disk space...
632 [11:41:56] <jelly> if it were postscript, psutils: /usr/bin/psnup
633 [11:42:10] * jelly did not know about its sibling
634 [11:42:13] <gvth> I installed it --without-recommends
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641 [11:50:17] <themill> yeah, lots of texlive turns into lots :( I've generally already got it all installed so pdfnup is my go-to tool
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645 [11:55:24] <gvth> interestingly I catenated two sites side-by-side but pdfjam included a white area above and below...
646 [11:56:35] <gvth> How do I tell pdfnup to just catenate two pages (and four pages later on) without adding anything else?
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648 [11:57:15] <gvth> I just issued 'pdfnup --nup 2x1 source.pdf'
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653 [12:03:07] <na> I'm having trouble installing nvidia drivers (nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and friends) on my optimus laptop running on testing with kernel 5.9.0-1-amd64. apt is reporting errors with the -kernel-dkms and -driver packages specifically. Looking through the logs it looks like the kernel module is failing to build, and that the nvidia-persistenced daemon isn't running because libnvidia-cfg.so.1 is
654 [12:03:09] <na> missing. Googling brought up bugs #969894 and #969889 which seem to be marked as fixed :/ Is this a known-ish problem with a known-ish workaround, or have I stepped on a new and exiting graphics landmine?
655 [12:03:10] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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666 [12:17:10] <slimep> hrm, is there something specific I need to do otehr than setting "dns=default \n rc-manager=symlink" in NetworkManager's config to have a resolvconf in `/run/NetworkManager/` that I can symlink to /etc/resolv.conf ? Just checking the logs, it does seem that NetworkManager is reading the config correctly, but /etc/resolv.conf seems to still be a plain file that isn't managed by NetworkManager
667 [12:17:20] <slimep> this is on Debian 10
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673 [12:22:01] <ratrace> slimep: maybe you have to delete resolv.conf first so NM can create a symlink? I don't think NM will delete existing file
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675 [12:23:00] <slimep> I did delete /etc/resolv.conf and restarted, but nothing changed :/
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677 [12:23:25] <lupulo> slimep, it is not necessary reboot
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680 [12:26:53] <lupulo> slimep, default is a single file (not symlink) /etc/resolv.conf
681 [12:26:53] <lupulo> slimep, you could write again like
682 [12:26:53] <lupulo> echo nameserver 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf
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684 [12:26:53] <lupulo> after you try ping replaced-url
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690 [12:27:13] <lupulo> slimep, perhaps do you ask about systemd-resolved
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693 [12:27:47] <slimep> no, if I set `rc-manager` to `symlink`, it should be a symlink to /run/NetworkManager/resolv.conf, as per the manpage for NetworkManager.conf
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695 [12:27:51] <ratrace> lupulo: stop with the bad advice pls. NM does create symlinks if so instructed
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699 [12:28:23] <lupulo> ratrace, default no
700 [12:28:30] <lupulo> he means that
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703 [12:29:21] <slimep> lupulo: I suggest you read the manpage for the config of NetworkManager :)
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706 [12:30:06] <ratrace> slimep: are you trying to use resolved or dnsmasq?
707 [12:30:18] <ratrace> do you perhaps have resolvconf package that might mess up with resolv.conf ?
708 [12:31:22] <genr8_> my /etc/resolv.conf just has a line in it that says: # Generated by NetworkManager (no symlink)
709 [12:32:15] <ratrace> which is another point, symlinks aren't required without systemd-resolved iirc
710 [12:32:33] <genr8_> yea im not using that.
711 [12:32:38] <slimep> ratrace: I'm not using systemd-resolved or dnsmasq, I'm trying to convince my program that DNS is indeed managed by NetworkManager
712 [12:32:44] <ratrace> so if you want dnsmasq for example, then resolv.conf is static file. or one could use dns=none and manage resolv.conf manually
713 [12:33:06] <ratrace> slimep: NM doesn't itself do that, it uses either resolved, dnsmasq, unbound, or none, iirc.
714 [12:33:33] <slimep> NM itself does manage /etc/resolv.conf when configured to do that, but it seems that in my case it's not doing that.
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716 [12:34:02] <genr8_> i didnt have to do anything for that to work
717 [12:34:02] <slimep> I know that it can be made to do that, because I've seen problem reports for an application I'm developing that's having issues with that specific config on debian 10
718 [12:34:10] <slimep> and now I can't reproduce it :D
719 [12:34:23] <ratrace> slimep: does manage etc/resolv.conf != "DNS managed by NetworkManager" ... or perhaps I misunderstood what you meant, a lot of people throw around "DNS" to mean multiple different things :)
720 [12:34:36] <ratrace> in what I meant was NM is not a resolver
721 [12:34:51] <slimep> Oh, yes, NM is not a resolver.
722 [12:34:54] <ratrace> resolv.conf is either static (manual) or eg defined by dhcp
723 [12:34:58] <genr8_> judging by the timestamps, /run/NetworkManager/resolv.conf is created, then copied over .001 seconds later to /etc/resolv.conf
724 [12:35:16] <slimep> I have no resolv.conf in /run/NetworkManager/resolv.conf
725 [12:35:40] <genr8_> well undo everything you did manually and go back to stock :P
726 [12:35:41] <ratrace> the question here is whether it's a (forced) symlink or a regular file under /etc/
727 [12:35:44] <slimep> the application will see if there exists a file in /var/NetworkManager/resolv.conf and compare it to /etc/resolv.conf, which seems to work across a lot of distros and versions of NM
728 [12:36:03] <slimep> and there is no "#Generated by NetworkManager" in my /etc/resolv.conf
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730 [12:36:34] <genr8_> i did nothing with this, it just did it all itself.
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732 [12:37:03] <genr8_> have you tried rebooting ?
733 [12:37:28] <slimep> I did reboot, yes.
734 [12:38:09] <slimep> That did not help with the issue.
735 [12:38:40] <ratrace> slimep: did you try with rc-manager=file ? any particular reason you want a symlink?
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738 [12:40:51] <slimep> ratrace, I'll try with that. The reason I want the symlink because that seems to be the way most other distros use NM by default (unless they use systemd-resolved), which is what our daemon checks for. But I should probably change it to also read the config over dbus to know what it should be checking for.
739 [12:42:09] <ratrace> slimep: why change at all and not leave the debian default?
740 [12:43:15] <genr8_> I have this line in my journactl -u NetworkManager:
741 [12:43:18] <genr8_> NetworkManager[1131]: <info> [1603779871.6566] dns-mgr[0x5c304354e900]: init: dns=default, rc-manager=resolvconf
742 [12:44:01] <slimep> because I've received reports of bugs with that configuration in Debian 10.
743 [12:44:21] <slimep> And I have a Oct 28 11:14:08 deb10 NetworkManager[425]: <info> [1603883648.6560] dns-mgr[0x55edaa267910]: init: dns=default, rc-manager=symlink
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745 [12:44:59] <ratrace> slimep: what bugs? debian10 wouldn't be released with gnome as default DE if it wasn't working, especially if NM wasn't
746 [12:45:01] <genr8_> perhaps the bug is not what you think
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749 [12:46:13] <slimep> ratrace: the bug is in code I'm responsible for, in an application I'm developing, I'm just trying to reproduce it :)
750 [12:46:27] <slimep> that's the reason why I'm trying to get NM to behave in a particular way
751 [12:46:35] <slimep> I do apologize for not making it clear.
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754 [12:50:51] <lupulo> slimep, you could try to compile the source and debug it, and send a bug if you want. replaced-url
755 [12:52:05] <lupulo> the license permits that of course.
756 [12:52:16] <ratrace> srsly.... what.
757 [12:53:26] <slimep> ratrace: I'm working on a vpn client, (replaced-url
758 [12:53:37] <slimep> so I was trying to reproduce that, but it seems like I can't.
759 [12:53:48] <genr8_> first of all, im using that client, and its fine :)
760 [12:54:18] <genr8_> in fact what i referred to was specifically while being managed under it
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762 [12:54:29] <genr8_> the user's config is bugged, so fix them.
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764 [12:54:40] <ratrace> well there we go :)
765 [12:54:58] <ratrace> meanwhile, I'm sure there's a better way to detect NM than checking for symlink
766 [12:55:12] <slimep> That's good to hear :) But I mostly hear from users when stuff isn't working. And when it comes to linux, the difference between the user configuring something wrongly and there being a bug is rarely clear :/
767 [12:55:47] <slimep> ratrace: well, NM could be running, but if it's running with rc-manager=symlink and the user got tired of their changes not _sticking_ when they've edited /etc/resolv.conf, that's the only sane thing to do.
768 [12:55:53] <genr8_> Theres questions of "Are they using NetworkManager to manage their interfaces? with ifupdown=managed" and then "are they using systemd-resolve or not?"
769 [12:57:17] <genr8_> and in the past I've purposefully tried to mess up my /etc/resolv.conf and NM always brings it back to sanity whenever it does its thing
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771 [12:57:52] <slimep> I am really greatful for NM and systemd-resolved attempting to have a nice interface to manage DNS configs on machines in a somewhat standardized way, but a lot of users don't share my feelings and try and hack their system to work they want it to, and working on a solution that works for most distributions for most users often means doing things which would be highly discouraged by
772 [12:57:55] <slimep> NM/systemd/distro maintainers
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774 [12:58:15] <slimep> genr8_: you can lock the file so that NM can't do anything about it.
775 [12:58:28] <genr8_> what do you mean by lock
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777 [12:59:38] <slimep> chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf or whichever flag one might need to prevent anything from changing /etc/resolv.conf
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779 [12:59:55] <genr8_> hmm. thats news to me, thanks
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784 [13:01:50] <genr8_> i think you're in a lose lose situation of finding bugs for users who broke their system into an unsupported configuration and you're trying to support something without being able to reproduce it
785 [13:02:28] <slimep> There is no spec for what's a supported configuration, only specific amounts of support emails
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787 [13:04:24] <slimep> At least it's not manjaro, which seemingly by default doesn't load nftables, or Ubuntu 14.04, where nftables is loaded, rules can be loaded via netlink superficially, but no rules get applied.
788 [13:04:44] <genr8_> you have to think like a broken person. what do people do that are stuck in the past ? set up their interfaces manually through /e/n/i but then still use network manager
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792 [13:06:14] <slimep> Pretty much. Anyway, I feel like this is a bit too off-topic
793 [13:06:37] <genr8_> im out of ideas too
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795 [13:07:47] <lupulo> that is a bit like the capture the resolv.conf
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797 [13:08:15] <genr8_> very contrived :)
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824 [13:22:56] <genr8_> This is an open bug, possibly related replaced-url
825 [13:24:41] <genr8_> Also
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827 [13:25:15] <slimep> I believe that bug to be mostly related to the fact that NetworkManager starts soon after mullvad-daemon, and NM tries to do it's network connectivity check whilst mullvad is trying to connect to a tunnel.
828 [13:25:27] <slimep> But this is a discussion that's best reserved for #mullvad
829 [13:25:39] <genr8_> I either found the supposed bug thread you're working on or another very similar one replaced-url
830 [13:26:22] <genr8_> that could be the crucial piece to the puzzle. Buster != Testing
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848 [13:49:09] <taman> Is there a guide or example of how to do this <replaced-url
849 [13:49:50] <taman> Specifically, with /etc/network/interfaces ?
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867 [14:02:58] <genr8_> the commands listed have to go in a script .sh file, with a hook, likely /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/
868 [14:03:00] <zedboy> Hate to sound old but it's a shame IRC disappeared
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870 [14:03:43] <genr8_> only a young person would actually say that
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872 [14:04:46] <zedboy> genr8_ 20 years ago there was tons of activity in #debian, you could get any question answered in seconds.
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874 [14:05:21] <ratrace> you just got a question asnwered in < 60 seconds
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880 [14:07:20] <zedboy> but I can see no one else is asking or answering. Can't be because there's less people using today....
881 [14:07:29] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
882 [14:07:36] <ksk> Github CEO did even join IRC the other day, so it must still be good for something :P
883 [14:07:37] <ratrace> probably
884 [14:07:41] <genr8_> it isnt. there 1172 people in here
885 [14:07:59] <ratrace> zedboy: it also depends on the question "demands". if it's some obscure knowledge it may tke a while until someone with it comes along
886 [14:08:23] <genr8_> the internet also grew by 1000 orders of magnitude, like the expansion of the universe, theres more things to do, whereas IRC was one of the main things 20 years ago
887 [14:08:27] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip )
888 [14:08:30] <ratrace> there's 1172 people but 1159 are bots :)
889 [14:08:47] <H4ndy> it's also mid day in Europe and early morning in NAM, most people are either working or not awake yet
890 [14:09:43] <zedboy> ratrace it's just so bloody quiet, except for us discussing how quiet it is.
891 [14:10:13] <genr8_> thats good. it means people learned how to use google instead
892 [14:10:20] *** darkcmd is now known as zcm
893 [14:10:27] <zedboy> (I actually just resurrected my nick for old time's sake, I wanted the Apache SOLR channel but that's dead and the last annoucement is circa 2018)
894 [14:10:38] <zedboy> genr8_ for sure to a certain degree
895 [14:11:34] <H4ndy> I solve 98% of my linux problems with the Ubuntu wiki these days 🤷
896 [14:11:35] *** Joins: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip )
897 [14:11:35] <genr8_> other distros also took over
898 [14:11:35] *** zcm is now known as darkcmd
899 [14:12:08] <zedboy> genr8_ great so now you're justifying the heresy :-)
900 [14:13:07] <zedboy> H4ndy there used to be some excellent regular contributors based in Europe. But again I'm really old.
901 [14:13:13] <genr8_> Linux Marketshare is still like the same 2% it always was, split between 50 distros
902 [14:14:02] <zedboy> genr8_ not in the server space. And the number of installed systems is way way up. The poor kids have just never heard of IRC.
903 [14:14:36] <ksk> You might also have heard about that "Android" thingy ;)
904 [14:14:43] <jmcnaught> There are busier channels, but #debian also has a #debian-offtopic channel and tries to keep the discussions that are not technical support to a minimum.
905 [14:14:47] <genr8_> blame the normies who took over with their phones and "Apps"
906 [14:15:01] <genr8_> or whoever failed to invent an IRC client that could compete with Discord
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911 [14:15:52] <taman> genr8_, if you've done it yourself, could you paste your config?
912 [14:16:01] <H4ndy> both have their space. IRC is not really multi-device friendly without the right client, I don't blame people to prefer Discord, Slack, etc. over IRC
913 [14:16:19] <H4ndy> I am just here because I am here since 20 years or so
914 [14:16:49] <genr8_> taman, i have not done it. i also looked for a general example for about a minute for you and didnt find one
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916 [14:17:13] <taman> genr8_, thanks. Nor did I, that's why I asked :)
917 [14:17:52] <ratrace> H4ndy: how does one one-finger type/swipe on a cellphone...... irc is a ten finger endeavor
918 [14:18:18] <genr8_> its gonna have to be synthesized using your brain. search for "ifupdown /etc/network/interfaces if-pre-up.d scripts"
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921 [14:19:26] <H4ndy> ratrace: I am currently using it just fine on my phone
922 [14:19:55] <H4ndy> for causal chatting it's fine, I would not provide elaborate problem solutions on my phone of course
923 [14:20:02] <ratrace> you're also not providing hours long support with thousands of charactres typed, in #debian :)
924 [14:20:39] <ratrace> and irc is more or less used for that these days, plus occasional banter in an -offtopic or -chat side-channel
925 [14:21:31] *** Quits: brickfat (~brickfat@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
926 [14:21:33] <genr8_> i tried to lead a #back2IRC movement with people I know and failed.
927 [14:21:55] <ratrace> is that a twatter hashtag or an irc chan? :)
928 [14:22:16] <slimep> a slack channel!
929 [14:22:18] <genr8_> hashtag to indicate a call to action
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932 [14:24:22] <zedboy> I am ecstatic to see someone is home over here. But IRC usership is way down. Wiki cites a 30-fold drop from the peak in 2003.
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934 [14:26:10] <ratrace> Well... I just have it set up the way I want, okay? replaced-url
935 [14:27:23] <zedboy> ratrace yah.
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942 [14:33:13] <genr8_> it would be interesting to invent a Reddit+IRC hybrid
943 [14:34:02] <H4ndy> no thank you, Reddit is already... unsuitable for discussion
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946 [14:35:11] <genr8_> its the closest concept to being salvageable and once people realize they need to get off centralized platforms, we need to have alternatives ready
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949 [14:38:07] <H4ndy> I heard 2021 will be the year of Matrix
950 [14:38:39] <H4ndy> right after the Linux Desktop becomes mainstream ;-)
951 [14:39:48] *** Joins: mirrorbird (~psutcliff@replaced-ip )
952 [14:43:24] <zedboy> H4ndy you are a few months off. Nov 5 will probably cover it. Just gotta figure out who registered sky.net
953 [14:44:03] <H4ndy> Time to buy Cyberdyne Systems stocks
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970 [14:58:57] <tramplefoot> is there a package i need specifically to set-up hotspots with networkmanager?
971 [14:59:23] <tramplefoot> im trying to connect my phone to my hotspot but it keeps saying dhcp lookup failed
972 [14:59:26] <tramplefoot> i installed dnsmasq
973 [14:59:29] <tramplefoot> and openresolv
974 [14:59:34] <tramplefoot> but no quarter
975 [15:00:40] <zedboy> tramplefoot: you want your phone to get network from your debian machine? or your debian machine from your phone?
976 [15:00:43] *** Joins: madage (~madage@replaced-ip )
977 [15:00:57] <tramplefoot> hotspot on my debian machine
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980 [15:01:14] <tramplefoot> im trying to connect it to my phone
981 [15:01:25] <tramplefoot> i mean im trying to connect my phone to it
982 [15:02:02] <tramplefoot> i just disabled ipv6 on the hotspot but it still does not work
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985 [15:04:11] <zedboy> tramplefoot: hostapd?
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991 [15:10:46] <nobyk> You guys on Matrix? :D
992 [15:10:49] <nobyk> how is it
993 [15:10:57] <nobyk> "Just works" ?
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996 [15:11:45] <Enissay> I am using this to search for a given text in files: `grep -rnw '/my/search/folder/' -e '12564D'` ==> However that directory is so hug and is taking very long for simple search text. Is there a way to search only files modified since last week for instance or starting from a given date ?
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1007 [15:15:05] <clarkk> how can I delete this UFW rule programmatically, without using the rule number? ufw deny out to 192.168.1.254/32 port 53
1008 [15:15:52] <genr8_> both of you: learn scripting
1009 [15:16:19] <clarkk> genr8_, ??
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1016 [15:18:41] <genr8_> To delete a rule, simply prefix the original rule with delete
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1022 [15:24:03] <jhutchins> nobyk: What's "Matrix"?
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1026 [15:24:49] <genr8_> replaced-url
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1029 [15:27:08] <genr8_> Enissay, something like "find /my/search/folder/ -mtime 7 -exec grep -rnwe '12564D' {} +"
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1034 [15:30:08] <clarkk> genr8_, thank you
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1060 [15:45:54] <neilthereildeil> hey guys. is it a bad idea to add a SWAP partition on a RAID5 volume? Can any of the code/data in the RAID5 driver or storage stack be paged out? If it can, i will end up with a page fault that will generate page faults.
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1067 [15:48:29] <na> Is there a best practices/common gotchas guide for apt pinning?
1068 [15:48:29] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: no, the kernel won't page itself out. the only question of "bad idea" here is of performance
1069 [15:48:49] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: swap is typically transient so do you need raid5 for it? or can you designate 2 drives and mirror it?
1070 [15:49:02] <ratrace> na: yes: "don't"
1071 [15:49:45] <neilthereildeil> well, my RAID5 volume contains my root partition and my bootloader etc
1072 [15:50:06] <neilthereildeil> i dont care much about backing up the RAID partition, but RAID5 is all i have
1073 [15:50:09] <neilthereildeil> will it work?
1074 [15:50:38] <neilthereildeil> and also, how big should my SWAP partition be?
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1078 [15:51:57] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: it should work, yes. how big? depends on your use case. typically a few MB just to help page out unused stuff, not to relieve of large memory pressure. if you wanna hybernate, then you'll need RAM size in swap
1079 [15:52:09] <ratrace> eh... few GB lol
1080 [15:52:24] <neilthereildeil> this is a server with 480GB RAM and will never hibernate
1081 [15:52:29] <ratrace> like, 5GB or maybe 10GB if you know you'll be paging out lotsa stuff
1082 [15:52:44] <mtlsw> ratrace, its' called "hibernate" :P
1083 [15:52:46] <neilthereildeil> theres one application that keeps running out of memory and keeps getting killed because theres no SWAP
1084 [15:53:00] <ratrace> mtlsw: y dnot caer ;:)
1085 [15:53:15] <mtlsw> neilthereildeil, 480GB of ram, that's insane
1086 [15:53:20] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: at 480GB what on earth is that?
1087 [15:53:20] <neilthereildeil> yea LOL
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1089 [15:53:30] <neilthereildeil> its awesome
1090 [15:53:40] <ratrace> I mean what is the app that's OOM'ing
1091 [15:53:41] <mtlsw> neilthereildeil, you have a picture you can post on imgur?
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1093 [15:53:51] <mtlsw> neilthereildeil, on the motherboard+ram on that thing? lol
1094 [15:53:57] * ratrace looks at its 1TB RAM servers and yawns
1095 [15:54:02] <mtlsw> neilthereildeil, otherwise i'm calling bs XD lol
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1097 [15:54:31] <neilthereildeil> the app thats OOMing is a python app that tries to take like 12GB RAM
1098 [15:54:47] <neilthereildeil> its not unreasonable to try to take 12GB RAM for a busy process
1099 [15:54:54] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: and how much is "available" under `free -m` ?
1100 [15:55:02] <mtlsw> ok kidd -- then you're not want of those data-center admins who do actually have petabytes of ram storage then -- just another punk on the internet. :))
1101 [15:55:13] <neilthereildeil> ive only allocated 12GB RAM for Linux
1102 [15:55:21] <ratrace> mtlsw: do you have a support question? or are you here only to shit on random posters?
1103 [15:55:41] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: well then that's your problem and swap won't help you there
1104 [15:55:47] <mtlsw> ratrace, my new debian-promotional video replaced-url
1105 [15:55:52] <mtlsw> ratrace, I don't shit. I paint.
1106 [15:55:57] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: no, i think it is SWAP
1107 [15:55:58] <ratrace> dc;wc
1108 [15:56:17] <neilthereildeil> if an app needs > 12GB of RAM< its killed
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1110 [15:56:23] <neilthereildeil> thats the issue
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1112 [15:56:37] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: you just said you only allocated 12GB for linux?
1113 [15:56:41] <na> ratrace: I'm running testing. If I want working 3D graphics, my current options are "pull down a package from unstable that unbreaks the driver package", "downgrade my kernel", or "wait a week for the package to move into testing". Do you have any *useful* suggestions? Or was that just how you say "no, I don't have anything useful to say here"?
1114 [15:56:41] <neilthereildeil> yea
1115 [15:56:50] <ratrace> so you have 12GB "for linux" (I'm assuming a VM?), and a python app wants 12GB of it
1116 [15:56:50] <neilthereildeil> lemme try something else...
1117 [15:57:06] <neilthereildeil> for the host running Linux and python, yes
1118 [15:57:08] <ratrace> yeah no, you need 12GB available, and NOT rely on swapping out in such extremely tight memory environment
1119 [15:57:30] <mtlsw> na: unstable is actually more dangerous than testing, so that's why someone told you to pull a package from it than adding an unstable repo..
1120 [15:57:38] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: maybe you're right...
1121 [15:57:58] <ratrace> !tell na about ssb
1122 [15:58:06] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: pretty sure i'm right
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1124 [15:58:45] <mtlsw> na: i wouldn't take ratrace's advice seriously. You are using packages beyond backports when you say you are using testing.
1125 [15:58:55] <ratrace> you _could_ in theory use swap assuming that python app would actually need less than 12GB of active pages but that's totally artificial and needlessly constrained environment
1126 [15:58:56] <mtlsw> tsk.
1127 [15:59:23] <ratrace> testing or not, !ssb applies
1128 [15:59:36] <na> mtlsw: This is self motivated :P I encountered the breakage today, and discovered the fix had *also* been uploaded today
1129 [15:59:44] <na> It's definitely not in backports in any case
1130 [15:59:51] <bloony> I'm running a debian image in docker and want to install python3-pip, but it cannot find that package.. tried with python-pip also.. do I need to add some repo? I have done apt-get update
1131 [15:59:52] <neilthereildeil> ratrace: since im clearly going for performance, i think i should allocate more RAM to linux host than 12GB
1132 [15:59:59] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: definitely
1133 [16:00:00] <neilthereildeil> so everything is resident rather than swapped out
1134 [16:00:17] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: active pagest at least. some inactive ones are good to be paged out
1135 [16:00:45] <mtlsw> neilthereildeil, btw, when you are using virtual machines, they're called "guests", not "host", -- the "host" is only one being the hypervisor, unless you want to talk with other contexts.
1136 [16:01:15] <neilthereildeil> nah, im talking about the host here. im running python on it and have allocated 12GB RAM for it
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1138 [16:01:27] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: just ignore the troll :)
1139 [16:01:43] <mtlsw> ratrace, hybernator.
1140 [16:01:55] <mtlsw> neilthereildeil, at least when speaking with matured adults.
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1142 [16:02:12] <mtlsw> (which ratrace obviously isn't. He can't a single word correctly.)
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1147 [16:08:22] <mtlsw> bloony, apt-file update, apt-file search python-pip or python3-pip
1148 [16:08:50] <mtlsw> bloony, checked here -- it is available in buster.
1149 [16:08:51] <mtlsw> .
1150 [16:09:02] <mtlsw> bloony, you probably dont have your repos set correctly.
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1153 [16:10:16] <mtlsw> na, curious just how well does it install testing? it won't be available yet as release-announce freeze-candidacy at least for another couple of months..
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1178 [16:31:29] <jlevon> hi, how do I edit debconf for grub package?
1179 [16:31:47] <jlevon> interactively
1180 [16:32:22] <genr8_> dpkg-reconfigure ?
1181 [16:32:45] <mtlsw> jlevon, you mean /etc/default/grub ?
1182 [16:32:49] <jlevon> mtlsw: no
1183 [16:33:04] <jlevon> genr8_: dpkg-reconfigure grub-common just returns, doing nothing
1184 [16:33:58] <genr8_> im unsure of the goal
1185 [16:34:10] <jlevon> oh, you have to use grub-efi-amd64
1186 [16:34:29] <mtlsw> jlevon, that's if you use gpt/efi systems
1187 [16:34:41] <jlevon> genr8_: trying to work around this bug replaced-url
1188 [16:34:55] <jlevon> though it didn't actually ask me about the bogus values
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1202 [16:41:23] <ratrace> jlevon: does that bug exist in debian?
1203 [16:41:25] <genr8_> debian doesnt work on that
1204 [16:41:43] <genr8_> with*/from*
1205 [16:42:06] <jlevon> this is ubuntu specific stuff? sorry for the noise then.,
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1207 [16:42:41] <genr8_> yep, just checked as best i could. theres no "install_devices" on debian
1208 [16:43:03] <jlevon> ok thanks.
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1213 [16:45:33] <genr8_> we have no /usr/lib/grub/grub-multi-install either.
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1223 [16:53:15] <genr8_> theres only 1 true grub, and thats /etc/default/grub :)
1224 [16:53:31] <jelly> ,file grub-multi-install --release sid
1225 [16:53:36] <judd> No packages in sid/amd64 were found with that file.
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1232 [16:56:01] <genr8_> I sorta wonder if theres a related script in the installer though, because our /etc/fstab is populated with a /boot UUID with a comment # /boot was on /dev/nvme0n1p1 during installation
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1236 [16:57:13] <genr8_> so it seems to detect the grub partition only once on install, and then hardcode it until we muck with it ourself. no debconf.
1237 [16:57:53] <unperson> is there a way that i can reliably change my hostname without rebooting?
1238 [16:58:07] <jelly> unperson: short answer no
1239 [16:58:15] <jelly> !hostname
1240 [16:58:15] <dpkg> Use «hostname foo» to set the hostname, $EDITOR /etc/hostname to set it for the next boot (create /etc/hostname if it does not exist) and $EDITOR /etc/hosts to set up local translations for a FQDN. See also 'man 1 hostname', or ask me about <mailname>. replaced-url
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1242 [16:58:38] <unperson> kk
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1244 [16:58:40] <unperson> thx
1245 [16:59:03] <jelly> some processes read it once when they start and don't look to see if it changed later
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1247 [16:59:16] <unperson> ok
1248 [16:59:16] <genr8_> yea, starting with systemd
1249 [16:59:52] <jelly> systemd is _probably_ a rare one which might or might not listen to changes done via hostnamectl
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1251 [17:00:11] <genr8_> true
1252 [17:00:24] <genr8_> that might be enough ?
1253 [17:00:28] <unperson> im working on a script that uses hostnamectl but also manually edits /etc/hosts and creates a new xauth token
1254 [17:00:31] <jelly> but most services, even shells need restarting
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1258 [17:00:47] <jelly> oh right, and even X server
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1260 [17:01:06] <genr8_> probably DBus.
1261 [17:01:13] <jelly> my prompt in zsh does not change until I exec it anew
1262 [17:01:17] <unperson> i've had some trouble running root apps/even logging back into that user account after logging out though
1263 [17:01:44] <jelly> yeah, just avoid it if possible
1264 [17:01:44] <unperson> i actually had to set the hostname back to the default one from root account
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1266 [17:02:10] <unperson> well i want to set a new hostname/mac at the touch of a button
1267 [17:02:21] <jelly> that is a bit weird. I'd expect sudo to be affected, but not logging in
1268 [17:02:31] <unperson> disable networking, assign new values, then enable networking
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1270 [17:03:00] <jelly> you'll have to figure out which services need restarting, and it might be "most"
1271 [17:03:11] <genr8_> i mean you could like shut down an entire tree of processes but at that point thats a lot of stuff.
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1273 [17:03:41] <unperson> i feel like maybe i should just run this script on shutdown instead
1274 [17:03:49] <genr8_> yep
1275 [17:04:03] <genr8_> i made one to change my Machine-ID on shutdown, similar concept
1276 [17:04:04] <unperson> so that each new boot gives a new lan identity instead of being able to do this on the fly
1277 [17:04:11] <unperson> kk
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1279 [17:04:40] <unperson> well thanks for the help :)
1280 [17:04:41] <r0b0> hello, I am trying to set up a site-to-site tunnel using strongswan, everything looks connected but when I ping the other side, I get Destination Host Unreachable from my own tunnel IP address
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1285 [17:07:32] <genr8_> unperson, this was my systemd script replaced-url
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1287 [17:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1195
1288 [17:10:27] <genr8_> r0b0, ICMP ping can be blocked at a firewall
1289 [17:13:13] <r0b0> genr8_, yes, but why would that Destination Host Unreachable be generated from my own IP addres? if it was a firewall, I would usualy just get no reply
1290 [17:14:04] <r0b0> I got the instructions from the provider, the only thing I changed is leftsubnet & rightsubnet - the provider said to use 0.0.0.0/0 in both
1291 [17:14:31] <r0b0> I narrowed it down - I don't want to tunnel all traffic
1292 [17:14:40] <imMute> r0b0: you get a Destination Host Unreachable from yourself when your routing table doesn't cover the destination address
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1294 [17:14:49] <genr8_> you've mucked up your split tunnel routes then
1295 [17:15:07] <r0b0> but maybe I misunderstand what left|rightsubnet means in ipsec.conf
1296 [17:15:43] <r0b0> ip route get 172.31.42.73 => 172.31.42.73 dev AWS_Tunnel1 src 169.254.156.190
1297 [17:16:07] <r0b0> 172 is the address on the other side of the tunnel, 169.254.156.190 is my tunnel IP address
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1301 [17:20:16] <genr8_> i could be wrong but I dont think that logic holds
1302 [17:20:46] <genr8_> paste the results of "ip route" to replaced-url
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1304 [17:21:41] <r0b0> replaced-url
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1306 [17:22:09] <r0b0> the 10.* routes can be ignored
1307 [17:22:21] <r0b0> that's a different vpn
1308 [17:23:10] <r0b0> maybe I need src 169.254.156.190 in that route to 172.31.0.0/16 ?
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1310 [17:24:05] <genr8_> im thinking something along those lines too
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1317 [17:26:12] <r0b0> nope, didn't help
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1320 [17:27:25] <genr8_> well I still think thats more correct than before. it could be something on the other end like rp_filter=0 or forwarding=0 or iptables or whatnot
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1322 [17:29:18] <genr8_> try using the OTHER end of the tunnel instead of .190 (.189)
1323 [17:29:36] <genr8_> our brain could just be backwards
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1330 [17:32:42] <r0b0> this is ip addr replaced-url
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1339 [17:36:36] <genr8_> well I honestly don't get why theres a 195.168 and a 169.254 at the same time. Ive never used strongswan
1340 [17:36:55] <genr8_> you might just wanna use 0.0.0.0/0 real quick and look at the routes and see what it wants to do normally
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1342 [17:37:21] <r0b0> I can't affort to muck up the default route on this box, sorry :)
1343 [17:37:41] <r0b0> not now
1344 [17:37:44] <r0b0> not from home
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1347 [17:39:27] <r0b0> but I guess that's the logical thing to do - when amazon says it should be 0.0.0.0/0 then I guess they're right.. I'll do it when I'm at the console someday
1348 [17:39:33] <genr8_> also, i've used openVPN before to route two different networks together, and pushing foreign routes wasnt enough, i had to use IPTables on the server that had access to both networks to route packets
1349 [17:39:36] <r0b0> thanks anyway
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1351 [17:41:00] <genr8_> it might be tcpdump time.
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1357 [17:44:57] <genr8_> also as i said before, the values of "sysctl -ar rp_filter" and "sysctl -ar forwarding" seem relevant, but exact logic of it all is beyond me at this point
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1400 [18:18:39] <NetTerminalGene> is DoH mature enough to enable on firefox 78 ESR?
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1402 [18:19:14] <ksk> NetTerminalGene: since your question implies its not enabled by default: No? :P
1403 [18:19:48] <NetTerminalGene> yes. they say it is enabled for US users
1404 [18:20:07] <immychan> Hi, I'm having an issue with Debian, I keep getting this audio stuttering whereby it'll cut out for a second and then play the bit that cut out over the top of what's supposed to be playing, any idea on what might be happening?
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1406 [18:21:08] <ksk> immychan: Not too much into desktops, but maybe replaced-url
1407 [18:21:18] <immychan> thanks ^ ^
1408 [18:21:39] <NetTerminalGene> immychan: is your disk do job when stuttering?
1409 [18:22:17] <immychan> Wdym?
1410 [18:23:15] <NetTerminalGene> my ssd is nearly dead. when it does something in background it interrupt audio
1411 [18:23:36] <immychan> ah, nah my SSD is fine
1412 [18:23:51] <immychan> I'm gonna try the stuff on the Pulseaudio page, thanks ^ ^
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1414 [18:24:23] <n4dir> i guess you already excluded that it is related to one specific application
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1416 [18:24:51] <NetTerminalGene> n4dir: talking to me?
1417 [18:25:15] <n4dir> immychan, which seems to have logged out already. Or i am too confused.
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1424 [18:27:17] <n4dir> but speaking of stuttering audio: if i do too much synthesizer/DAW stuff at once, i get it. I will get me a better PC soon. Anyone has an idea what specs would suffice for such needs (audio creation, but nothing professional)
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1426 [18:28:00] <n4dir> different: is it rather RAM or rather CPU, or the mixture of both? (probably that ...)
1427 [18:28:13] <greycat> I think it's usually the I/O bus.
1428 [18:28:40] <n4dir> greycat: thanks. The brutal truth is i got no real idea what that is, but a searchterm. Again: thanks
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1444 [18:43:34] <Deyaa> Hello 💖💖
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1446 [18:44:27] <Deyaa> I'm trying to use tor with mitmproxy
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1473 [19:11:50] <zedboy> greycat: holy guacamole you are still here?!
1474 [19:12:04] <greycat> Nope. You're hallucinating.
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1476 [19:13:11] <zedboy> greycat: slovenia still?
1477 [19:13:13] <jelly> avocado must have gone bad
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1483 [19:16:43] <zedboy> jelly: well, either it's bad now or was bad the past couple times I've been on (less than 1x/yr since end of 2001)
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1550 [20:05:34] <c-nister> hi in here, anyone some sparse time left for a sudden problem since latest update/upgrade ?
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1552 [20:06:30] <nkuttler> !ask
1553 [20:06:30] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
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1560 [20:11:34] <greycat> They're waiting for a victim to pounce on.
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1562 [20:11:50] <c-nister> nkuttler, I have a thumbdrive with debian on it. It hast sdx1 as boot, sdx2 as esp, sdx3 as LUKS with LVM inside
1563 [20:12:28] <c-nister> nkuttler, since latest upgrade i cannot boot it without advanced work in initramfs shell...
1564 [20:13:49] <c-nister> dpkg, just the same as previous
1565 [20:13:49] <dpkg> c-nister: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
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1568 [20:14:28] <c-nister> dpgk, it drops me into initramfs shell, saying, volume group cannot be found
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1570 [20:15:16] <c-nister> this is strange, i thought, that luks is processed prior to my lvm, because it worked before the latest upgrade, IIRC
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1588 [20:34:01] <c-nister> dpkg, any help left ?
1589 [20:34:02] <dpkg> c-nister: I wish you would RTFM.
1590 [20:34:12] <c-nister> dpkg, i did.
1591 [20:34:12] <dpkg> c-nister: I wish you would RTFM.
1592 [20:34:36] <c-nister> dpkg, it worked all before latest upgrade
1593 [20:34:36] <dpkg> c-nister: wish i knew
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1595 [20:34:56] <alex11> c-nister, you're speaking to a bot
1596 [20:34:58] <sney> c-nister: dpkg is a bot, try describing your issue with more than "it worked before"
1597 [20:35:13] <c-nister> AI bot ?
1598 [20:35:16] <alex11> yes
1599 [20:35:19] <greycat> and you're talking to someone named "sinister"
1600 [20:35:24] <c-nister> interesting
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1602 [20:35:30] <sney> no AI, just call and response.
1603 [20:35:52] <c-nister> it's all about the C bout the C ...
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1605 [20:37:01] <c-nister> i have a problem, because since the latest upgrade my encrypted lvm does not boot anymore, i always need to pass the luks passphrase in initramfs shell. BETTER?
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1609 [20:39:39] <greycat> It's a start. Sadly I do not know a single damned thing about LUKS. Are you on stable? You never said which version of Debian. What package(s) were upgraded? Did you try reverting the ones that might affect LUKS?
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1611 [20:40:27] <sney> or selecting the previous kernel in grub?
1612 [20:40:36] <c-nister> greycat, You mean me ?
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1614 [20:41:45] <sney> I don't see anyone else
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1618 [20:43:07] <c-nister> ok, guys, we wanna work together to make this run ?
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1620 [20:43:52] <c-nister> i upgraded ALL, and even issued update-initram
1621 [20:44:35] <greycat> all what?
1622 [20:44:38] <greycat> are you on stable?
1623 [20:44:51] <sney> c-nister: updates in debian are asynchronous, so without you telling us, we don't know what "all" is. check in /var/log/apt/history.log if you don't remember what packages were upgraded. and answer greycat's questions about debian version, please.
1624 [20:45:01] <c-nister> all is up to date, as it seems, but when initramfs kicks in, it cannot boot and proceed to luks decryption point, saying "volume group XYZ not found"
1625 [20:45:22] <greycat> I'm about to /ignore him because he's obviously not running Debian at all.
1626 [20:46:08] <c-nister> i am on kernel 5.7.0. But i thing this not debian related, it is just all over linux
1627 [20:46:16] <greycat> Yup. *plonk*
1628 [20:46:19] <ratrace> lol
1629 [20:47:15] <c-nister> greycat, this is what help needs to look like, wow, never worked with that kind of pros before
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1653 [21:05:15] <jhutchins> ,kernels
1654 [21:05:16] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.9.0-rc8-686-pae (5.9~rc8-1~exp1); sid: 5.9.0-1-686 (5.9.1-1); bullseye: 5.9.0-1-686 (5.9.1-1); buster-backports: 5.8.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.8.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-12-686-pae (4.19.152-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.19.152-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
1655 [21:05:17] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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1658 [21:06:01] <jhutchins> Yup, not a current Debian kernel.
1659 [21:06:30] <jhutchins> Since Ubuntu just released, probably not that either.
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1664 [21:07:52] <sney> there was a 5.7 in buster-backports for a little while, I think. but still most likely some derivative.
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1666 [21:08:23] <sney> maybe pabs's -derivatives project will make it easier to identify this stuff
1667 [21:08:26] <greycat> The fact that people are still speculating about it should be enough evidence that this person isn't running Debian.
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1677 [21:10:45] <jhutchins> I'm baffled by why people want to encrypt the OS portion of their system. Data, sure, I can see that, but separate it.
1678 [21:10:49] <dotcom> nothing wrong with a little mental masturbation
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1680 [21:11:39] <alex11> *bandaid slap meme*
1681 [21:13:30] <sney> "encrypt everything, to be sure" is not a bad place to start, which is probably why d-i does it that way if you select encryption at that stage. you could have credentials or private keys in /etc somewhere, personal info in databases in /var, who knows
1682 [21:14:00] <sney> of course everyone should figure out their threat model and harden against specific things, rather than being general and hoping it works. but most won't, so a little overkill is fine
1683 [21:14:12] <jhutchins> sney: It's always possible to redirect data you want to protect.
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1687 [21:14:53] <jhutchins> sney: Yeah, until it doesn't boot because the OS partition is encrypted.
1688 [21:15:04] <jhutchins> Then you've secured the system from yourself.
1689 [21:15:36] <sney> the debian lvm+luks setup is very recoverable as long as you still have the passphrase.
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1691 [21:16:37] <jhutchins> Which speaks to how often it fails.
1692 [21:17:07] <sney> this is a support channel, we get to see the failures. people don't join #debian to tell us how perfectly everything is working.
1693 [21:17:10] <NetTerminalGene> no fail on lvm luks for years here
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1695 [21:17:17] <jayjo_> Is there a way to package a python program that is using pyproject.toml (PEP 517, poetry) without a setup.py?
1696 [21:17:48] <sney> jayjo_: for packaging questions, ask in #packaging or #debian-mentors on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode) they will be able to give you more specific answers
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1699 [21:18:27] <jayjo_> sney: ok, thanks for your help
1700 [21:18:31] <sney> np
1701 [21:18:36] <jhutchins> sney: Well, occasionally we do see a "Everything is great!" post, but you're right, selection bias.
1702 [21:18:59] <jhutchins> sney: What I'm saying is that you don't develop a suite of tools that make it easy to fix a problem that never happens.
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1707 [21:21:47] <sney> jhutchins: I for one am thankful to developers who include troubleshooting and recovery in their designs.
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1770 [22:10:32] <jhutchins> Oh, yeah, it's great to have. It's good that there are tools. It's just that they don't exist without a need.
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1772 [22:12:19] <hmuller> truer words ...
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1774 [22:13:33] <jhutchins> Also: "I've never had any trouble with it." Just means you have no idea how to fix it. (Old rule from FidoNET days.)
1775 [22:15:20] <velix> apt install kebap
1776 [22:15:31] <jhutchins> sney: No disrespect intended.
1777 [22:15:49] <sney> none taken.
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1890 [23:18:07] <dob1> was bitchx in debian in older releases ?
1891 [23:18:22] <sney> once upon a time, I think
1892 [23:18:52] <dob1> I remember this too
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1894 [23:19:20] <dob1> I would like to know why it was removed
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1896 [23:19:37] <sney> according to snapshot, the last time it was in debian was 1.1-5 in 2007
1897 [23:20:07] <dob1> so many years passed
1898 [23:20:30] <sney> ,bug rm ircii-pana
1899 [23:20:33] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1901 [23:21:18] <dob1> it was called in this way?
1902 [23:21:38] <sney> ircii-pana was the source package that produced the bitchx binary package, apparently.
1903 [23:21:42] <dob1> ircii is another thing
1904 [23:22:27] <dob1> ah ok it's bitchx I read the second message
1905 [23:22:29] <sney> see this link, under the heading "binary packages" replaced-url
1906 [23:25:07] <dob1> sney, thanks for the infos, I remember this client I used time ago and
1907 [23:25:15] <dob1> I was curious to know why it was removed
1908 [23:25:31] <sney> np
1909 [23:26:39] <jhutchins> I think irssi is a fork/redev of ircii intended to address some issues.
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1911 [23:27:57] <sney> the ui/ux is basically the same. according to wikipedia, bitchx (which started being maintained again a few years after being removed from major distros) still doesn't support unicode
1912 [23:28:01] <dob1> irssi was (is) different from bitchx , way more user friendly
1913 [23:28:19] <sney> most people who want to use bitchx are reading ancient docs, or experiencing nostalgia, imo
1914 [23:29:16] <jhutchins> I must say there's very little I can complain about in irssi.
1915 [23:29:27] <dob1> I check their github repositories and they are updated at most at 2013, so I think it's gone.. but in debian it was removed time ago before 2013
1916 [23:29:53] <sney> development stopped in 2006-2007, then a few years after someone started developing it again, then stopped again
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1919 [23:32:21] <sney> there's the source for 1.2.1, released in 2014. it's probably usable, if you don't need unicode. but why bother when irssi exists replaced-url
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