5[00:04:44] <GenTooMan> hmm it's really hard to know what for 3 possibilities it is. 1 Firefox is a leaky sieve, likely but not that bad (maybe?) 2 an extension doing something it shouldn't I have a few but I'm judicious and remove them if I find they don't do what I expect them too malingering bits? 3 .js from javascript on websites having to be "fixed" a lot (noscript fixed) creates a memory leak.
40[00:34:22] <tomreyn> hmuller: i'm not sure what you're seeing, but try, with [X] being those digits: Ctrl-Alt-F[X] , Ctrl-a-[X], Ctrl-b-[X], Alt-cursor_left/cursor_right
41[00:34:52] <ChmEarl> hmuller, as tomreyn says, they are tmux key combos
77[01:01:56] <ryouma> is the magic sysrq key available in debian? if so, is it useful when system is not responding quickly to keyboard or mouse? which keys are it? ... ah, never mind, it looks like it won't kill all user processes since etch.
78[01:01:57] <tomreyn> which one that is will depend on how the controlling end implements it, and there are several different implementations. if you know what you'Re using ont he controlling end, we can try making educated guesses. or you could refer to its manual.
79[01:02:06] <tomreyn> hmuller: ^
80[01:03:58] <hmuller> tomreyn: I'm using this: replaced-url
81[01:04:22] <tomreyn> ryouma: i think that by default, of this commonly used combo REISUB, only S and B will actually take effect nowadays. but you can reconfigure this if you'Re not worried about the potential security impact.
82[01:04:45] <ryouma> what do s and b do? ther eis a security impact?
83[01:04:51] <ryouma> like, it will kill firewall or so?
84[01:05:14] <hmuller> I looked at instructions here: replaced-url
85[01:05:28] <ryouma> sounds like it is degrading as a feature :)
89[01:06:34] <tomreyn> ryouma: i haven't followed the full discussion, there can be other reasons besides security (but that is a reason for diabling some of them by default, for sure, such as K)
90[01:06:35] <hmuller> it looks like it is installing this time, just wanted to be able to get the shell if there was another problem
91[01:08:14] <tomreyn> hmuller: about the escape sequence, what matters is the software (or hardware/firmware) your serial console runs.
150[03:00:28] <TheInformaticist> Please help. How do I change the font size permanently in my console? I mean the console, not a virtual terminal. I tried modifying values in a file, following some directions online, but it didn't have any effect.
228[04:24:39] <ryouma> i still don't get this from apt-get : "The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required: libjsoncpp1 (1.7.4-3)\n Use 'apt autoremove' to remove it.\n 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded." where apt autoremove does not remove it and i ahve to manually remove it. notice the 0 to remove there!
231[04:28:32] <khobo> By default, Incredible PBX whitelists all of the non-routable LAN subnets including 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, and 192.168.0.0/16
232[04:28:42] <khobo> this means everything 192.168.x.x is white listed yes?
421[08:24:00] <jmcnaught> Helios_: qutebrowser might not get security updates. According to the Debian 10 release notes only firefox-esr, chromium, and browsers based on webkit2gtk get security support.
438[08:31:07] <somiaj> though don't follow their suggestion of editing files in /usr/share/applicaiton, instead copy any edits to your local ~/.local/share/applications
440[08:31:14] <jmcnaught> Helios_: "xdg-settings get default-web-browser" says qutebrowser.desktop?
441[08:31:48] <Helios_> jmcnaught: yes
442[08:31:59] <Franciman> Hi, I found this error in dmesg logs: replaced-url
443[08:32:09] <Franciman> does anybody know how to solve it?
444[08:32:44] <somiaj> !warnings
445[08:32:44] <dpkg> Yerp, lots of software outputs warnings. Kernel module warnings on boot, mplayer warnings, GTK warnings, X11 warnings, build warnings, gpg warnings. Don't be scared - informative output is a GOOD THING. Consider yourself warned, and if the program works as expected, be happy.
446[08:32:56] <somiaj> Franciman: do you have anything that is actually wrong with your system besides you get the kernel giving you that message?
447[08:33:45] <Franciman> not that I am aware of
448[08:33:47] <somiaj> Helios_: do you have a ~/local/share/applications/mimeapps.list?
449[08:33:48] <Franciman> it works correctly
450[08:34:01] <Franciman> it seems to work correctly
451[08:34:25] <Helios_> somiaj: yes I do
452[08:34:36] <somiaj> Franciman: then just ignore that, the kernel is very verbose, sometimes it is just spouting out stuff that is hardware bugs but the kernel is correctly responding to it, so provided you have on issues, don't go looking to fix it
453[08:34:59] <somiaj> Helios_: I see one place susggest addinx x-scheme-handerl/http=foo.desktop for your browser (also fro https)
454[08:35:58] <Helios_> somiaj: I've done that already, does not work for xfce-terminal :(
456[08:37:37] <Helios_> Also, I should point out that I'm not using xfce as my DE, I'm just using xfce-terminal as my term
457[08:37:40] <somiaj> Helios_: you have tried to export $BROWSER=/path/to/binary? It does seem strange, seem like you have tried all the stuff I'm finding, probably just some little thing being overlooked that is hiding on your system.
458[08:38:40] <Franciman> ok, thank you somiaj
459[08:38:50] <Helios_> somiaj: that I've not done
464[08:45:25] <somiaj> try to export it then run xfce-terminal from the terminal you exported it in (see if it needs to be set at the launch of the browser), though yea didn't seem that suggestion was honored
465[08:45:29] <ryouma> the dollar sign mightnot belong there depending on what you did
466[08:45:59] * ryouma fears mime
467[08:46:15] <somiaj> oh yea, that was my bad, :/, though that was just a suggestion I saw, though wasn't one that said it worked, so more a long shot
468[08:46:28] *** Quits: nt1036 (~nt1036@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
469[08:47:19] <ryouma> there was a bug in stretch where some mime line had a double colon in it where it needed a single colon. dunno if it got fixed.
470[08:47:38] <Helios_> ryouma: I had exported it in my zshrc file, logged out and logged in and then opened xfce-terminal
471[08:48:19] <Helios_> I checked with echo $BROWSER that it was pointing to the qutebrowser binary before opening the terminal
472[08:48:24] <ryouma> ok
473[08:48:49] <ryouma> then i have reached the limits of my knowledge
477[08:50:34] <Helios_> how do you guys handle default applications and mime types, it seems there are too many programs to deal with it
478[08:50:59] <Helios_> you have xdg-mime, xdg-settings, update-alternatives
479[08:51:14] <Helios_> mimeapps.list
480[08:52:21] <ryouma> i handle it by running away screaming
481[08:52:23] <somiaj> Helios_: maybe try running update-desktop-database ? Maybe it needs to update the mimetype handeld by the .desktop file you are trying to use?
493[08:58:25] <somiaj> Helios_: also see comments about looking at /etc/xdg/xfce-mimeapps.list (though these might be more xfce specific, which you said you aren't running)
511[09:08:58] <genr8_> Franciman, thats an error from a kernel module called the "intel TCO Watchdog Driver" which is part of intel chipsets. if you want that message gone you can blacklist the module "iTCO_wdt.ko"
519[09:14:16] <genr8_> on my AMD system I have the same issue, except its the module "sp5100_tco.ko" . They seem to be loading even for systems they don't actually apply to
523[09:17:31] <genr8_> in computer terms, a "watchdog timer" is a hardware device that runs at a lower level than the CPU (in your case its on the PCH aka chipset, sometimes on the motherboard, sometimes embedded), and monitors the CPU in case it has hung, and if theres no communication response received back, it assumes the CPU has locked up and hard resets the CPU. replaced-url
532[09:21:12] <genr8_> the error messages you got indicate that its non-functional. the module is auto-loading even though its non-applicable to your hardware. either ignore it, or blacklist the module
623[10:10:05] <ratrace> what's in cron.daily could easily be put into cron.d
624[10:11:10] <genr8_> i guess. sysstats not the only thing that has this split
625[10:11:16] <themill> except that cron.daily gets run by anacron too
626[10:11:25] <ratrace> and cron.d/sysstat already contains a daily, for statistics rotation...... so now there are two dailies in two files. brilliant foss is brilliant
627[10:12:02] <genr8_> ok ill agree thats a bit odd
628[10:12:19] <ratrace> and then haters will say that systemd.timers (that can do what anacron does as well) is baaaaaad.
629[10:12:46] <themill> also, the two dailies do different things
630[10:13:09] <ratrace> well that doesn't prevent what's in .daily to go into .d too
664[10:20:42] <Lope> ratrace, I meant what package
665[10:20:50] <genr8_> That one...
666[10:20:57] <Lope> whaaat? that's weird!
667[10:20:58] <ratrace> well I wanted to make sure foobarresolveip wasn't included :) the /resolveip search should've passed, as it passed in apt-file search
720[10:31:36] <amprxc> Hello, I'm tryting to install Kubuntu on my laptop from an external CR ROM writer / reader which is connected via USB to my computer. I'm able to boot on ubuntu, but this last doesn't detect my laptop disk. When I run "fdisk -l", I can only see the CDROM disk space. Then, of course, the installer tells me that there is not enough place available.
721[10:31:36] <amprxc> Any idea ? Thanks
722[10:31:49] <ratrace> genr8_: which package is it then?
736[10:35:04] <genr8_> im not sure what determines which one it is on which systen. on mine its debian-keyring.
737[10:35:32] <genr8_> actually i have both installed
738[10:35:33] <ratrace> genr8_: ah right, right..... it's not showing [installed] for debian-keyring, it is for debian-archive-keyring
739[10:35:53] <genr8_> yeah maybe its debian-archive-keyring and i got debian-keyring from something else.
740[10:35:53] <ratrace> but anyway, rtyuiop should have it listed, not just Listing... Done
741[10:37:07] <amprxc> ratrace okay :)
742[10:37:10] <ratrace> genr8_: debian-keyring is "GnuPG keys of Debian Developers and Maintainers", but debian-archive-keyring is "GnuPG archive keys of the Debian archive"
747[10:40:28] <rtyuiop> can't find debian-keyring to install it manually
748[10:40:31] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
749[10:41:00] <genr8_> "apt list debian-archive-keyring" do you have that one ?
750[10:41:28] <rtyuiop> Listing... Donedebian-archive-keyring/now 2019.1 all [installed,local]
751[10:41:39] <genr8_> hmm well then maybe its not that.
752[10:41:59] <genr8_> i wonder why it says local
753[10:42:20] <ratrace> well two different errors, one showing tmp lock fail, the other invalid sig, tells me there's maybe a filesystem issue somewhere
754[10:42:26] <rtyuiop> i think the issue is related with gpg keys
755[10:42:38] <rtyuiop> how to clean from scratch then reinstall ?
756[10:43:07] <genr8_> backup all your files, format and re-install
757[10:43:13] <ratrace> rtyuiop: backup data, reinstall.... but ideally you want to find the cause of this, or else it'll just repeat itself
758[10:43:23] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
759[10:43:38] <ratrace> "format and reinstall" ..... ya this ain't windows, we don't format C:\ here :)
761[10:44:17] <genr8_> rtyuiop, are you behind a corporate firewall or captive portal wireless access point, maybe thats blocking the HTTP request ?
762[10:44:19] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
763[10:44:38] <rtyuiop> no at all
764[10:44:41] <genr8_> sorry, i been saying that all my life
765[10:45:23] <ratrace> rtyuiop: try running apt-get clean and then apt update ; note that apt-get clean will remove any local package cache if you used apt-get install before
820[11:14:11] <Joit> AaaaAA I had problems with my xserver to start, installed the video driver back and forth, it only worked as root. Now, just putting a "export DISPLAY=:0.0" into tty worked..
821[11:14:32] <genr8_> I dont have that key.
822[11:14:36] <ratrace> me neither
823[11:14:41] <Joit> who the hell did eat my $DISPLAY variable
824[11:14:58] *** OsteHovel_ is now known as OsteHovel
825[11:14:58] <fireba11> omnomnom
826[11:15:10] <Joit> FIREBALL!! ITs all YOUR fault
827[11:15:16] <genr8_> maybe because its a sub-key signed off the master
828[11:15:35] <ratrace> but it should be listed anyway
829[11:15:39] <Joit> i am thinking about to set a fire on your balls
859[11:28:35] *** Quits: szorfein (~daggoth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
860[11:28:43] <Joit> i can change the appearance at xfce from it, but not really set a display
861[11:28:54] <ratrace> well something is broken there. you shoulnd't set $DISPLAY anywhere manually, it's done by the DM initiated xorg server session
862[11:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1127
863[11:29:03] <ratrace> are you logging in as root or regular user?
869[11:29:44] <ratrace> (actually one exception exists to setting $DISPLAY manually, when you run commands in custom environments that don't inherit the env var)
870[11:30:05] <ratrace> Joit: so, you log in as normal user and the desktop (xfce) starts?
894[11:33:20] <Joit> alt-ctrl F1, lightdm runs on tty7
895[11:33:22] <ratrace> please read carefully what I'm saying. if you're in lightdm prompt there is no console there. what do you do exactly from that point on, to get a console prompt where you export DISPLAY?
896[11:33:28] <tohoyn> wpa_cli gives the following error: Could not connect to wap_supplicant: (nil) - re-trying
930[11:37:17] <genr8_> env variables dont work like that
931[11:37:40] <genr8_> unless you killed lightdm from TTY1 and re-ran it again after you set it
932[11:37:49] <ratrace> tohoyn: you normally don't. there are several ways to control wpa_supplicant; one way is NetworkManager does it automatically, for a DE environment. Another is you set up /etc/network/intrefaces to use wpa_supplicant, either directly, or as I prefer through a wpa_supplicant.conf, so all WPA stuff is in one config file, and /etc/network/intrfaces just refers to that one file
933[11:38:10] <tohoyn> ratrace: I use NetworkManager
934[11:38:34] <tohoyn> where actually is the wpa_supplicant started? /etc/init.d/ ?
935[11:38:54] <ratrace> tohoyn: so what's the problem with NetworkManager? you don't use wpa_cli if you have NM controlling the supplicant
936[11:39:21] <ratrace> tohoyn: there are (systemd) service units but by default they're not used, except maybe the dbus interface for NM
937[11:39:27] <tohoyn> The mobile hotspot of my phone does not work
938[11:39:35] <ratrace> so if you're using NM, you shouldn't interact with the supplicant directly
939[11:40:18] <tohoyn> WiFi is not listed in the menu top right of the display
940[11:40:25] <ratrace> tohoyn: if NM is having issues, it should be logged by the journal. I can't remember otoh which filters to use, so check the entire journal for anything involving networkmanager or wpa_supplicant please
941[11:40:43] <Joit> @genr8_ mmm, well either way ok, now, do you have a clue, how i can set it permanent or set it in a standard way? seems it s lost all time. I had to mirror my home hdd before with rsync, and since that i have this problem
976[11:55:02] <ratrace> especially if one day another monitor is added
977[11:55:24] <Joit> problem is there, it returns after years most time, to have problems with the xserver, and until that, i mostly have forgotten how to fix it
982[11:59:12] <ratrace> btw that export in default-display-manager would work only if the file is used in a shell context, and I don't think it is.
983[12:00:36] <ratrace> nor the /etc/X11/XSession or ~/.xsessionrc as those expect $DISPLAY to be already set . simply put, it's the DM that exports the env because it starts a clean env thta doesn't inherit any shell env rcs or whatever
984[12:01:34] *** Quits: szorfein (~daggoth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
995[12:05:16] <ratrace> it merely checks the existence of /usr/sbin/lightdm in the file, which returns a "true" which signals for ExecStartPre to continue with ExecStart
1005[12:06:58] <ratrace> and if it shows the GUI, then it _has_ been set. question is only why doesn't ligthdm started sessions inherit it...... *IF* and thats' a major if here, that's even the case
1006[12:07:22] <genr8_> it does seem very weird overall
1007[12:07:28] <ratrace> something tells me DISPLAY is normally set and them running export in a different tty (and then starting apps there) is just a red herring, and something else is going on entirely
1009[12:07:48] *** Quits: szorfein (~daggoth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1010[12:08:00] <ratrace> that's why I wanted them to spell out, excactly, what they're doing from export to "it works", so we can see the chain of processes that's going on
1011[12:08:02] <genr8_> maybe he does have 2 monitors
1013[12:08:29] *** Quits: szorfein (~daggoth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1014[12:08:36] <ratrace> because "fixing" startx or manually started programs from another tty shell will not in any friggin way fix the way main lightdm environment is inherited
1016[12:10:01] *** Quits: dselect (~dselect@replaced-ip) (Quit: ouch... that hurt)
1017[12:10:41] <genr8_> maybe his primary monitor is disabled, and everythings showing up on a 2nd screen thats not actually there, until he runs a program with :0.0, and then its like "oh this has to exist again, cause a program is on it, let me enable it"
1035[12:16:47] <ratrace> but really, when they come back saying it didn't fix the problem..... they need to output their Xorg.0.log and entire `journalctl -b` for further clues
1036[12:16:56] *** Quits: mirrorbird (~psutcliff@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1037[12:17:12] <ratrace> I wonder if that suid xorg thing is an issue, they did mention running as root worked
1041[12:18:01] <Joit> yay, works so far, but i add it into bashrc too, also made a new file called .xprofiles, where they write on the net, it doesnt exist, but x11 will look for it
1042[12:18:37] <Joit> " how to set a variable permanent debian 10" has more possibilities
1043[12:18:57] <ratrace> bashrc most certainly had nothing to do here, assuming lightdm is starting as a service
1044[12:18:59] <genr8_> while you were gone we determined my idea would not work
1050[12:19:46] <Lope> where `[[ $isBar ]] && echo "isBar is true"` works as expected.
1051[12:19:50] <Joit> haha genr8_ but anyhow it did
1052[12:19:55] <ratrace> Joit: ligthdm would source ~/.xsessionrc but I think that already implies DISPLAY has been set
1053[12:20:07] <Lope> any of these variables will be truthy if they contain 1 or a non-empty string
1054[12:20:14] <ratrace> Joit: meanwhile, I think DISPLAY is a red herring here, and you have other issues. maybe pastebin your Xorg.0.log and entire journalctl -b
1056[12:20:41] <ratrace> Joit: adding export to default-display-manager certainly didn't work as that export is lost the moment the subshel of ExecStartPre ends
1059[12:21:16] <ratrace> alsobtw... wait, that file is not even sourced as a shell, but compared via cat!
1060[12:22:43] <Joit> journalctl -b is empty
1061[12:22:54] <ratrace> Joit: the reason I asked you all those details you complained about me asking, is to determin the _Exact_, byte per byte, sequence of events from lightdm showing the prompt to "it works"
1062[12:23:29] <ratrace> Joit: that's impossible. if you don't have the permissions, it would tell you so. unless..... that's not a systemd system at all there....
1063[12:23:52] <Joit> i dont run on systemd
1064[12:24:07] <Joit> i have mx-linux and it use .. . ?
1067[12:24:29] <ratrace> hahahah. we've been duped. tricked. trolled. WELL PLAYED, sir, well played.
1068[12:24:37] <ratrace> !based on debian
1069[12:24:37] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
1070[12:24:41] <Joit> i can start oover systemd ofc
1098[12:29:36] <hmuller> Joit: next time start with, "I am using mx-linux"
1099[12:29:38] <ratrace> and then when you have jokers like this one here, and then next time you're more cautious and ask people superfluous questions like is this debian, are you 100% sure, making them feel like idiots..... yea that's totally NOT the fault of jokers like this one
1100[12:29:52] <Lope> Joit, you're an idiot if you have any problems with ratrace's free help that he offered you. He's helped me for hours and I'm WAY ahead as a linux hacker as a result. I am incredibly grateful to him and people like ratrace make me feel warm and fuzzy to be part of the linux community (no sarcasm)
1101[12:29:58] <Joit> and nothing else was asked, just ratrace tries to put me things in my mouth what i did not say, sounds like a smartass, no?
1102[12:30:06] <ratrace> " how i can set a DISPLAY variable permeanent for debian" : answer: you don't. the DM does it
1108[12:31:14] <Haohmaru> Joit how dare you say such a thing about mr ratrace? have you contributed to #debian or anything else even a fraction of your time?
1109[12:31:17] <Joit> ahaha again, you say "DM does" but in no way, how to configure it
1111[12:31:25] <ratrace> you know very well you wouldn't get help if you started with "I run mx linux" so you pretedned that was debian and started getting anxions when pressed for detaled info.
1112[12:31:31] <ratrace> 8/10 would play again.
1113[12:31:33] <Joit> that is not an answer, but only smartassing, seriously
1114[12:31:51] <hmuller> * ignores the troll
1115[12:32:00] <ratrace> Joit: you don't _configure_ it.... $DISPLAY is a special env variable set by xorg controllers
1116[12:32:12] <Lope> Joit, seems like you need to sort out your personal problems or attitude before you ask linux folks for free help. You're behaving like a 13 year old brat. Just drop the attitude and be humble and ready to learn.
1117[12:32:39] <ratrace> they only exception to this is when you run subprocesses that require DISPLAY and don't inherit it from the calling process. usually in (sub)shells executing xorg (GUI) programs
1118[12:32:41] <Haohmaru> or buy $payware_OS and demand support coz u paid for it
1119[12:32:46] <Joit> ratrace but it doesn work that way, i installed xorg, lightdm, and it set nothing
1122[12:33:07] <Joit> and dont tell me " Mx-linux" didnt, when its based on debian
1123[12:33:10] <ratrace> it "doens't work" because your mx linux broke something, related to debian. on actual Debian, it _does_ work like that
1124[12:33:17] <ratrace> !based on debian
1125[12:33:17] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
1126[12:33:34] <ratrace> re-read again please. especially re-read 10 times the sentence that says "we cannot know what changes were made"
1127[12:33:44] <hmuller> exactly
1128[12:33:59] <vincent-> ratrace, found a solution for the issue of not being able to resolve single-label host names despite of specifying a search domain. I replaced the "hosts:" line in /etc/nsswitch.conf with the one I have in a Fedora machine, and started to work automatically. Do you think it's a bug in Debian that should be reported?
1129[12:34:29] <ratrace> vincent-: can you repeat what was the original and what was the replacement line?
1130[12:34:37] <Joit> @Haohmaru my xserver didnt start anymore with the user, only with the root, after i had to rsync my home folder. i reinstalled nvidia drivers back and forth, xserver, dm, but nothing worked, only now, to set the DISPLAY
1131[12:34:57] <Haohmaru> aww, crapvidia involved
1132[12:35:18] <Haohmaru> i haven't had an issue with $DISPLAY and crapvidia
1133[12:35:21] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1134[12:35:31] <Joit> well, i had lately an ati card, but "its not supported anymore" and i had more problems with it, then any other nvidia
1135[12:35:35] <Haohmaru> * on Debian (OG)
1136[12:36:01] <Haohmaru> i suggest you consult your distribution's documentation/wiki
1139[12:36:20] <Joit> i have no idea too, why this now happens, i would suspect, that it should work the normal way with the dist driers from nvidia-detect
1140[12:36:21] <vincent-> ratrace, original -> "hosts: files resolve [!UNAVAIL=return] dns"
1142[12:36:33] <ratrace> big problem here is that this is not a systemd machine, so it can be gods know what kind of shellscript abomination nightmare that breaks the environment
1143[12:36:48] <Haohmaru> oh?
1144[12:36:55] <Joit> Haohmaru: you use now ati ?
1145[12:36:58] <Haohmaru> then yeah, who knows how things wurk
1146[12:37:22] <Haohmaru> Joit i switched to Radeons (old-ish models, i just need opengl 2.1 or so)
1147[12:37:29] <ratrace> vincent-: oh I see... so basicaly I think it's removal of "resolve" that does it
1148[12:38:00] <ratrace> vincent-: I thought that would imply sourcing resolv.conf first but I think it means querying the resolved daemon directly
1150[12:38:07] <Haohmaru> Joit why are you using this "mx-linux" or whatever it is?
1151[12:38:19] <vincent-> ratrace, I can try changing only that bit and see if it works. Give me a sec.
1152[12:38:24] <Lope> I used to use ubuntu and mint etc. Until I realized those are noob OS's and if I want help from the real brains in #debian, I need to run debian. So I switched. No more problems or problems getting help on technical things.
1153[12:38:50] <Haohmaru> Lope eggzactly
1154[12:39:03] <Lope> I used to come in here and lie that I was using debian.
1155[12:39:08] <Haohmaru> and not debian-next, that's not supported here, and you're expected to be a semi-h4x0r
1156[12:39:15] <Lope> Then I realized i was wasting the time of people here and my own time.
1157[12:39:17] <Haohmaru> Lope sinner
1158[12:39:22] <ratrace> vincent-: that will probably work. "resolve" there puts nss-resolve in the chain which queries systemd-resolved directly
1160[12:39:36] <Lope> I've repented for my sins. and now I've confessed!
1161[12:39:37] <Joit> its nice made, i changed after the horrible update to 19.xx from the most distros, had debian running, but some things didnt work too, so i did go to mx and xfce.
1165[12:40:29] <vincent-> ratrace, removing "resolve" did not work. I had to replace it with "mdns4_minimal". The rest of the line remained unchanged.
1166[12:40:44] <Haohmaru> Joit so you tried debian, it didn't wurk, so you tossed it and put mx-linux, now that one doesn't wurk, and you come to #debian for help
1167[12:40:58] <ratrace> vincent-: removed it both with [!UNAVAIL=return] ?
1168[12:41:12] <Joit> tried ubuntu too, but they have t the installation routine one server "securiity.xxx" or something, what has a timout most time of 10 minutes, you sit at the installation, and wait really 10 minutes, until it says " could not connect" thats a joke
1169[12:41:42] <vincent-> ratrace, no, just "resolve". I didn't know [!UNAVAIL ...] was part of it. I guess they are parameters to "resolve" or something like that.
1170[12:41:46] <Joit> Haohmaru: mx did work all the time and nice, until my hdd had a crash and i had to rescue my home folder
1171[12:41:47] <Lope> sounds like you need to learn to use linux properly instead of jumping distros every 5 mins.
1172[12:41:54] <Joit> then after rsync the problems started
1174[12:42:29] <vincent-> ratrace, now it works. This is how the whole line looks like: "hosts: files dns"
1175[12:42:35] <ratrace> vincent-: it's a chain of backends to try one after another, to resolve "hosts", more info in nsswitch.conf(5) manapge, about these extra actions
1176[12:43:03] <Haohmaru> yeah, so "how to fix that" would depend on the distribution, but it's not debian, so it's not very on-topic here
1177[12:43:04] <ratrace> vincent-: right, so with "files dns" it queries files first (/etc/hosts) and then does a dns recursion if it doens't get an answer from files
1178[12:43:19] <vincent-> > ratrace> "resolve" there puts nss-resolve in the chain which queries systemd-resolved directly
1179[12:43:20] <ratrace> files dns is the most minimal sane chain you can have, so that's okay
1180[12:43:23] <vincent-> Why is that a problem_
1181[12:43:35] <ratrace> vincent-: because systemd-resolved is very buggy still
1182[12:43:44] <Joit> lope, another joke? i didnt "jump distros all 5 minutes" After this horrible "update" i tried like 3 distros, if i can find one, what works, but ould not find one, what is pretty poor for the whole linux distributions
1183[12:43:47] <vincent-> Oh, I see. I didn't know that.
1188[12:44:47] <Joit> Haohmaru: the most i found was, that debian has the most problems with the xserver, and mx is definetly based on debian 10
1189[12:44:48] <vincent-> ratrace, is it safe changing /etc/nsswitch.conf, or will it be overwritten in the next update of glibc, or by some other software?
1190[12:44:49] <ratrace> question is only how distant future
1191[12:45:13] <Haohmaru> Joit huh? what xserver problems bruh?!
1192[12:45:14] <ratrace> vincent-: it's safe. if a package will try to rewrite it in a future apt upgrade, you'll get a prompt
1193[12:45:15] <Joit> mx didnt change a lot at the base they only add some things
1194[12:45:31] <Haohmaru> things like.. bugs?
1195[12:45:32] <vincent-> ratrace, excellent. Thanks a lot for your time and help :-)
1196[12:45:42] <Joit> that the xserver dont start under debian, that is, what i did find on the net
1197[12:45:43] <ratrace> !next
1198[12:45:43] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
1199[12:46:02] <vincent-> I'm not leaving..., yet :P
1200[12:46:07] <ratrace> ;)
1201[12:46:22] <Haohmaru> Joit are you kidding me? i install debian with a desktop environment (or multiple) and the sh*t wurkz
1202[12:46:51] <Lope> Joit, I've tried a lot of distros and they've all worked perfectly. You must be doing some weird shit.
1203[12:47:26] <Joit> i dont remember anymore exactly, what the problem with debian was, maybe the source "security" too with its idiotic timeout of 10 minutes?
1204[12:47:48] <Haohmaru> no idea what you're talking about
1205[12:47:58] <Joit> the apt sources
1206[12:48:01] <Haohmaru> anyway, Joit try #mx-linux or sumfin
1207[12:48:18] <Lope> Joit, you're the only person I've ever seen come in with these sorts of issues and behaviours. You're either a troll or doing weird shit. Consider what you're doing that's not normal and start there.
1208[12:48:19] <Haohmaru> or $internetz, $websearch
1209[12:49:13] <Haohmaru> or buy $payware_OS and demand support
1210[12:49:20] <Joit> during installation, it refresh a few times the sources, and ie ubutu has one source, what only has a timeout. its nearly impossible, to install it plain simple without waiting a few times 10 minutes for nothign
1211[12:49:45] <Lope> again, you're the only person with these weird issues. Check your network.
1212[12:50:04] <Haohmaru> bruh, i've installed debian on many machines, there's no such "pointless waiting for minutes" there
1213[12:50:11] <Joit> lope, you really sounds like a linux-noob, as you said
1214[12:50:42] <Lope> You're assuming the problem is the software but need to consider your environment because your issues are unique to you.
1215[12:50:51] <Joit> Haohmaru: i wrote "ie. ubuntu " above, no ? hard to read, that?
1216[12:50:54] <Joit> bruuuuh
1217[12:50:56] * themill thinks it's time to return to Debian support
1218[12:51:04] <Haohmaru> Joit his debian probably is in better working condition than yours right now.. who's the noob?
1219[12:51:16] <Lope> Joit, haha, thanks dude that means a lot to me. Have a nice day.
1266[13:11:59] <Lope> ratrace, it's funny above, his comment about you asking him "useless stuff" reminds me of a recent experience where a dev more junior than me asked me to debug their bug. But they wanted to hold the keyboard and mouse to "save me time" and wanted to control what I could check and not check, etc. It was very face-palmish. I had to keep asking "if you know better than me, then why am I team leader and why are you coming to me asking me to solve your problem
1267[13:11:59] <Lope> that you can't solve?" "if you don't know what's wrong or how to debug it, why are you telling me how to debug it?"
1270[13:14:24] <Lope> I think in that situation it's important to ask the person if they're not only asking for help, but ready to learn and receive help. Generally one can set conditions for helping people. "If you want me to help you, you have to accept that you don't know everything and you have to let me help you." If they can't agree on that, they can't get any of my time.
1272[13:15:20] <ratrace> it's more about there being red herrings which can lead you astray even if you're experienced.
1273[13:16:05] <ratrace> correlation != causation is often an issue. one thinks there's no DISPLAY set while, but that's just an artifact of that particular test (switching to another tty), and not the original problem (lightdm not starting xfce)
1274[13:16:34] <ratrace> that's why I never, ever help people in PM. I'm not infallible. I want others to holler if I say somethign stupid.
1277[13:17:52] <Lope> yeah that's definitely a thing. the person also didn't want me to check certain basic things because it was obvious. I said "I don't know what mistakes you've made." They said "no, that's all fine." I had to say "you're not perfect, and you do make mistakes sometimes." Funny how the human factor can be a significant part of a bug or debugging process, in addition to technical issues.
1278[13:18:08] <Haohmaru> ratrace yeah.. when the coffee levels go low..
1279[13:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1139
1280[13:19:28] <Lope> And I agree, the 2nd opinion sometimes makes mistakes too. Sometimes I create a new bug when I fix an old bug. We all have to have a humble attitude.
1292[13:30:20] <ratrace> there's no immediately visible issue from these logs, but also that means no wifi connection is even attempted. is there a wifi or "wireless" option in the NetworkManager connection settings?
1293[13:30:27] <ratrace> tohoyn: ^^^
1294[13:30:59] <tohoyn> ratrace: shall I look at nm-connection-manager or some conf file?
1296[13:31:25] <ratrace> tohoyn: no, the GUI itself. that's gnome it seems, so there should be an icon in the top right corner, for network connections
1297[13:31:46] <tohoyn> ratrace: yes but wifi is not shown there at all
1298[13:32:41] <nvz> tohoyn: not _at_ _all_ or it says it's disabled in the applet?
1299[13:32:55] <tohoyn> nvz: wait a minute
1300[13:33:07] <nvz> heh
1301[13:33:18] <ratrace> and in addition, check `ip link` in the terminal and see if the wireless interface appears there
1302[13:33:37] <nvz> yeah, one thing I do know is n-m will ignore things in /e/n/i
1303[13:33:42] <ratrace> yeah this will be hard if you have to walk over for each thing to try out :) can't you extend that cable out?
1304[13:34:10] <tohoyn> nvz: it only shows VPN
1305[13:34:10] <ratrace> nvz: but that would be listed in the logs as changing unmanaged to unavailable, as it does already for enp3s0
1306[13:34:15] <nvz> ratrace: what amuses me is, we were workin on this yesterday.. and they always say wait a minute after everything I say :P
1307[13:34:53] <tohoyn> ratrace: the problem is that the network does not work with the computer I'm debugging
1308[13:35:10] <tohoyn> ratrace: what do you mean by extending the cable
1309[13:35:11] <ratrace> tohoyn: cable'd network?
1310[13:35:28] <tohoyn> ratrace: I use my mobile telephone for the network
1311[13:35:56] <ratrace> tohoyn: oh, then I misunderstood when you said you were 20 meters away from the computer you're debugging. I thought you had to log on irc from another machine, 20 meters away....
1312[13:35:57] <efloid> backport kernel 5.7 fails on a machine with f2fs filesystem. the stock 4.19 kernel boots fine. not sure what is wrong unless the 5.7 kernel is missing something beyond what should be in the initramfs
1314[13:36:43] <ratrace> tohoyn: and to be 100% sure here... can you use the cable'd (eth) network on that computer? there's an interface, but is there a cable connected to a working local switch/router/hub/something?
1315[13:37:09] <ratrace> (and now I'm wondering how you'd get that journalctl output out.... I *hope* you did not have to type it all up)
1316[13:37:25] <tohoyn> ratrace: I used a usb stick
1317[13:37:35] <ratrace> ((initially I thought you were dual booting and had to quit, reboot, reboot again and come back to irc))
1318[13:37:45] <tohoyn> are you asking if I have a cabled network available?
1326[13:41:18] <nvz> tohoyn: the two main things that would cause it to not show up is if its configured in /etc/network/interfaces or if there is a firmware issue. I would advise double checking both of these look to see if the wireless interface is mentioned in /etc/network/interfaces and if you have any firmware errors dmesg|grep -i firmware
1327[13:41:54] <nvz> either of these should be evident from that log..
1328[13:42:41] <nvz> but still, I can't offhand think of anything else that wouldnt also be evident in that log
1329[13:43:37] <efloid> kernel.org don't link to current stable kernel? have to parse the dates through a long list
1330[13:43:50] *** Quits: ChiLLabiS (~jimmy@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
1331[13:44:06] <tohoyn> ratrace: sorry, I don't have a cable network
1332[13:44:17] <nvz> tohoyn: really at this point I'd say its worth backing up a bit and explaining the big picture more.. cause as I understand this machine was working and then it wasnt.. and the details on that as well as what other machines you have there is unclear.
1333[13:44:27] <genr8_> efloid, theres a giant yellow button on the homepage 5.8.10 i believe
1334[13:44:39] <genr8_> 5.8.12 now
1335[13:44:53] <tohoyn> nvz: I have a linux laptop (the one I'm debugging) and I currently use a Windows laptop
1336[13:44:54] <nvz> cause if you have two machines, you can cable them together if you have an ethernet cable, and share the network for troubleshooting purposes
1337[13:45:00] <efloid> oh i see on the main kernel.org page it is linked. in the ftp directory it's just a list
1338[13:45:10] <efloid> genr8_: thanks
1339[13:45:22] <tohoyn> nvz: ok. I'll check if I have an ethernet cable
1346[13:47:29] <efloid> genr8_: i know. i will try to use the config from the sid 5.8 kernel as a starting point
1347[13:47:37] <tohoyn> nvz: sorry, I don't have an ethernet cable
1348[13:47:41] <genr8_> ok
1349[13:47:50] <tohoyn> I may have to reinstall Debian
1350[13:48:03] <nvz> tohoyn: what was the backstory on this again? I seem to recall you saying it had worked before, what is the debian version and kernel version? uname -r; cat /etc/debian_version and what happened between it working and not working? upgrade, power failure, plane crash?
1351[13:48:10] <genr8_> still not the same, debian provides its own patches
1352[13:48:20] <genr8_> the config file is what matters the most though
1353[13:48:43] <tohoyn> nvz: what happened that I played with some bluetooth headphones and my computer (tried to connect them)
1355[13:48:58] *** Quits: pvdp66556 (~pvdp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1356[13:49:02] <efloid> genr8_: yes it's all the options that need to be enabled to match hardware and software functionality that's needed by other components
1357[13:49:05] *** Quits: sputnik (kli0rf@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1358[13:49:20] <genr8_> unless they were provided by debian instead
1359[13:49:33] <genr8_> you would need that git tree to be the "debian/" subdirectory
1360[13:49:58] <efloid> cool thanks
1361[13:50:17] <nvz> tohoyn: did you do more than just try to connect them with the GUI? like a lot of reading random stuff online and running commnands? have you rebooted since you did this?
1362[13:51:19] <efloid> genr8_: so only clone the debian/ directory?
1374[13:53:01] <icypee> i'm trying to install gnome 3.36 but when i do sudo apt search gnome-core it says i can install gnome 3.30 even though i have unstable enabled
1375[13:53:08] <genr8_> the patches dont seem to relate to f2fs so it may not matter. just go with what you know
1376[13:53:13] <icypee> how do i install the unstable version of gnome?
1377[13:53:30] <joepublic> dpkg, debian-next
1378[13:53:30] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1379[13:53:38] <nvz> tohoyn: which are you actually using, bullseye or sid? regardless you're way out of date
1383[13:54:46] <nvz> tohoyn: you're likely experiencing issues with the python migration.. to be of further help to you here I'd highly recommend you install stable, thats what we support here
1393[13:56:04] <efloid> cannot download with git - permission denied
1394[13:56:14] <nvz> tohoyn: either way you are on an non-stable branch going through several heavy migrations, you are without network, and ytou're going to have big problems.. we could try plot a course for the best option going forward but either way you are kinda beyond support for the current issue because you made the mistake of using testing in the first place
1395[13:56:43] <tohoyn> nvz: I need testing for software development
1396[13:56:43] <genr8_> efloid, i find that hard to believe
1397[13:57:04] <nvz> tohoyn: you probably do not.. not on baremetal like that
1401[13:57:41] <nvz> tohoyn: we can help you figure out a better way, but you're going to have to tell us more about what you got to work with, what your needs are, and such
1402[13:57:59] <efloid> genr8_: thx
1403[13:58:05] <genr8_> before you do all that. just try force-loading the crypto-crc32 module in your initramfs
1409[13:58:33] <nvz> tohoyn: were it me, I'd be writing a stable installer from the windows machine, and plotting a course to install stable on that linux box and then address your development needs
1410[13:58:37] <tohoyn> nvz: I mean stable has
1411[13:59:06] <nvz> tohoyn: you can run the testing versions from stable or backport them.. but first we gotta get your machine working again
1412[13:59:07] <efloid> genr8_: will add crypto-crc32 to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules and rebuild
1413[13:59:43] <nvz> tohoyn: with you not having an alternate means of networking, the first problem would be plotting the course to get stable on that machine and getting it online again
1414[14:00:04] <efloid> genr8_: already had several other modules added for f2fs but crypto-crc32 wasn't one of them
1418[14:01:22] <genr8_> yea. also of note, they compile with all these important options enabled: replaced-url
1419[14:01:27] <nvz> ratrace: heh, idk what you mean by that, I just hate to see people foolishly running our testing/unstable branch on baremetal cause they dont know how to achieve what they want without breaking their whole system
1420[14:01:43] <ratrace> nvz: plotting courses left and right :)
1422[14:02:03] <tohoyn> nvz: testing has worked fine for me so far
1423[14:02:17] <tohoyn> except once I was unable to install it
1424[14:02:22] <ratrace> tohoyn: to use testing (and sid) you need to have experience to fix problems like this when they arise
1425[14:02:30] <genr8_> you have to accept its a beta
1426[14:02:37] <ratrace> primarily around network so you can get back online and seek more help if you need
1427[14:02:45] <nvz> tohoyn: octave in stable is 4.4.1-5 guile there is 2.0.13+1-5.1 and 2.2.4+1-2+deb10u1 but as I say, you need not use those, you could use a chroot
1433[14:03:16] <judd> No package named 'guile' was found in amd64.
1434[14:03:19] <nvz> tohoyn: thats /so far/ and now its broke.. and its gonna get worse.. python is in migration, C++ migration is coming.. etc.. things are going to break.. BADLY
1435[14:03:43] <TheInformaticist> That's why I use STklos
1436[14:03:43] <nvz> tohoyn: you put yourself at great risk for instability on a machine you need for productive purposes for no good reason
1437[14:03:43] <tohoyn> nvz: If I have to reinstall my system I use stable
1438[14:03:52] <genr8_> nvz, explain C++ migration ?
1439[14:04:16] <nvz> genr8_: there is a migration coming for GCC and C++ related things
1440[14:04:25] <genr8_> i gathered that. to what end ?
1441[14:04:44] <TheInformaticist> To reform the language, add features, etc.
1442[14:04:54] <genr8_> its backwards compatible...
1443[14:05:10] <tohoyn> I'll be back here later today
1447[14:07:49] *** Quits: icypee (493c5e9d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1448[14:08:02] <TheInformaticist> I'm running in my console, and my SD card won't load. I tried to read the man page for 'mount' but couldn't understand. Does anyone know what I need to do so that my SD card (which I never remove) will be automatically mounted whenever I boot/log in?
1449[14:08:03] <nvz> genr8_: idk, I'm not a developer, much less a DD
1450[14:08:10] <dvs> genr8_: think upgrading libc6 which is a base library for a LOT of programs. And chances are all programs will not be migrated at the same time.
1451[14:08:39] <TheInformaticist> I usually just run Thunar, which mounts it for me.
1452[14:08:53] <genr8_> oh well thats more serious
1463[14:13:37] <nvz> the details are irrelevant for my point.. which is you shouldn't be trying to do /development/ on testing/unstable when you're not a debian deveolper doing the kind of development that relates to the next stable release
1468[14:14:33] <ratrace> I'd refine what you said with just one condition: one of having the ability to fix things yourself. otherwise developing on testing or unstable is not intrisically bad
1469[14:14:56] <TheInformaticist> OK, I guess I need to read the mount page again. Like that will help, LOL
1470[14:15:36] <nvz> yeah well most people are just trying to develop stuff for work or such, and use debian cause its easy, but are using windows/ubuntu mindset of just hammering in whatever crap they need from wherever they can
1475[14:16:22] <genr8_> I have this one in mine for a USB stick with debian on it. /dev/sda1 /mnt/Debian\04010.3.0\040amd64\0401 auto nosuid,nodev,nofail,x-gvfs-show 0 0
1476[14:16:33] <nvz> if you're gonna develop on debian, you need to have a familiarity with debian.. and rule #1 is don't break debian :P
1477[14:16:40] <ratrace> TheInformaticist: please define "my SD card won't load", what do you mean by that. using fstab is a permanent solution on-boot, yes, but one has to be able to mount it manually first
1478[14:16:57] *** Quits: uvolmer (~uvolmer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1479[14:17:21] <TheInformaticist> genr8: How do I find the name? It's 8 numbers, but I can't remember.
1480[14:17:50] <genr8_> you dont need the name. /dev/name /mount/point auto options
1481[14:17:58] <TheInformaticist> ratrace: It is not mounted.
1503[14:24:13] <genr8_> you can do "ls /dev/disk/by-partlabel/"
1504[14:24:53] <genr8_> that will show the 8 letters you were talking about and then what device its linked to after the ../../
1505[14:26:05] <genr8_> you can also mount them by that named label if it helps overcome the device numbering changing
1506[14:27:40] <genr8_> another idea is "ls /dev/disk/by-label/"
1507[14:27:47] <TheInformaticist> nvz: lsblk will not tell me the name of a disk that is not mounted, will it?
1508[14:28:19] <genr8_> it will
1509[14:29:26] <genr8_> another idea is "ls /dev/disk/by-path/" and look for the one that has "usb" in the name
1510[14:29:59] <genr8_> same for "ls /dev/disk/by-id/"
1511[14:30:19] <genr8_> now you know 7 ways
1512[14:31:08] <ratrace> if that's an SD card reader, would it show as usb?
1513[14:31:17] <TheInformaticist> No, I know zero ways. You know 7 ways. My hard drive configuration is very weird, because this is a little notebook computer.
1514[14:31:33] <genr8_> are you trying ?
1515[14:31:46] <TheInformaticist> Uhhhhhh, yes...
1516[14:31:59] <ratrace> TheInformaticist: hence my suggestion to tail dmesg right aftre you insert the card, as that will show the events involving which device
1517[14:32:16] <TheInformaticist> I did the dmesg
1518[14:32:21] <ratrace> and?
1519[14:32:37] <genr8_> "it said some stuff. I cant read it"
1520[14:32:40] <TheInformaticist> It was full of messages, none of which I could understand
1528[14:33:38] <ratrace> TheInformaticist: take the card out, run dmesg | tail -n 0 -f , put it back in and pastebin whatever output you get at that moment
1529[14:33:57] <ratrace> eh no wait wrong, -f is for files....
1530[14:34:22] <ratrace> eh just dmesg -Tw and paste the output that happens when you insert the card
1531[14:34:29] <TheInformaticist> OK
1532[14:35:07] <TheInformaticist> sudo dmesg -Tw
1533[14:35:13] <ratrace> right, as root
1534[14:35:34] <ratrace> (I never explicitly say sudo. understanding why and when you need it is crucial)
1535[14:35:36] <TheInformaticist> Sorry, I'm in emacs, and I forgot to go to my shell window :-)
1536[14:35:56] <ratrace> heh. ircing from emacs. it only lacks a good editor =)
1539[14:37:17] <genr8_> ratrace, do you wanna guess what device name it is, if its an SD reader not on usb and not in mass storage device mode ?
1540[14:37:36] <ratrace> (and btw, tail -n0 -F /var/log/kern.log on a default debian installation (that does journald forwarding to syslog, and kern.* to kern.log) instead of that dmesg | tail...)
1543[14:37:55] <ratrace> genr8_: I can't guess. Last time I had to use sdcards was too long ago. :)
1544[14:38:17] <genr8_> lil go with sdc1
1545[14:38:35] <genr8_> the suspense is getting to me
1546[14:39:29] <genr8_> you could pick sdb2 and win
1547[14:39:32] <ratrace> well even on usb it should then show sdc if it's sata controller that manages it. I was asking about /dev/disk/by-id/ showing "usb" in the name, even for usb based card readers
1548[14:39:41] <TheInformaticist> OK, what pastebin can I use with html only?
1549[14:40:01] <ratrace> just use paste.debian.net
1553[14:42:06] <TheInformaticist> It's saying that the buffer is read only for that page.
1554[14:42:17] <TheInformaticist> yeah, I'm slow as molasses.
1555[14:42:47] <ratrace> for termbin..... something like tail -n0 -F /var/log/kern.log > sdcard.txt ; <insert card>, cancel the tail ; cat sdcard.txt | nc termbin.com 9999 ; post the URL you get here
1556[14:42:52] <TheInformaticist> I'm forcing myself to use Emacs in the console for everything.
1557[14:43:31] <nvz> real hackers use butterflies
1558[14:43:41] <TheInformaticist> hah
1559[14:43:44] *** Quits: cupcake90 (~cupcake90@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1588[14:53:48] <hmuller> I've heard of that. one of the minecraft devs plays that
1589[14:54:11] <TheInformaticist> tralala: That's my point.
1590[14:54:20] <genr8_> its highly addictive
1591[14:54:21] <wuseman> high level then
1592[14:54:30] *** never_released_ is now known as never_released
1593[14:54:54] <TheInformaticist> genr8: I mainly play Armagetron Advanced.
1594[14:55:10] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1595[14:55:24] <ratrace> it can literally do this for you. you start playing around noon. assuming it grabbed your attention, you feel peckish around 8pm, you zombie to the fridge, grab something to eat and go back to playing. around 5am the next day you realize what happened....... and you're still playing it.
1596[14:55:33] <genr8_> idk that one. im hardly into any games at all besides this and starcraft 2
1609[14:58:14] <ratrace> TheInformaticist: tail -n0 -F /var/log/kern.log > sdcard.txt ; <insert card>, cancel the tail ; review sdcard.txt for private data you may not wanna publish ; cat sdcard.txt | nc termbin.com 9999 ; post the URL you get here
1610[14:58:15] <icypee> I login and gdm gives me a grey screen
1611[14:58:28] <ruied> I'm using debian bullseye. How can I install openvpn from debian buster?
1612[14:58:32] <ratrace> icypee: I'm gonna hazard a guess and say your gpu is to blame. which gpu is it, which drivers are you using?
1613[14:58:36] <genr8_> step 1: save the file. step 2: apt-get install netcat, step3: type "cat filename.txt | nc termbin.com 9999"
1614[14:58:54] <genr8_> ruied, why do you want to do that in reverse ?
1615[14:59:05] <icypee> Im using the proprietary nvidia drivers
1616[14:59:19] <ratrace> icypee: which version for which gpu model?
1627[15:00:53] <ruied> openvpn seems to have a bug, I have other system with debian buster, tryed the same configuration files, it works on buster but it doesn't work on bullseye
1638[15:02:26] <ratrace> icypee: start with /var/log/Xorg.0.log . you can cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999 and then post the URL you get here. assumes you have netcat installed.
1640[15:02:39] <ratrace> no root needed to read Xorg.0.log
1641[15:02:49] <rs2009> Hi there, I had a question: in Debian Buster, there are issues with running /sbin/ldconfig using qemu-i386-static (debootstrap --foreign second stage) on a Raspberry Pi 4B. However, it does work on Stretch.
1649[15:07:16] <icypee> ratrace is there anything of note in there?
1650[15:08:07] <ratrace> icypee: well, no errors explicitly mentioned, so that's good. but you seem to be using a xorg.conf ; those things aren't needed unless you explicitly need to override some autodetect stuf. what's in it?
1661[15:09:23] <genr8_> yep. i gave up 20 minutes ago though
1662[15:09:46] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
1663[15:09:49] <ratrace> icypee: but more importantly than that, why is it there? who created it? what happens if you remove it (don't delete, just rename to something like old.conf.xorg
1664[15:10:11] <icypee> Wait can I just rename it and be good then?
1665[15:10:37] <ratrace> icypee: maybe. like I said, unless you explicitely created it to override a default/auto setting, it's not needed and yes, it may very well be the cause of issues
1670[15:12:10] <ratrace> in case you don't get GUI at all for some reason due to this, you can add systemd.unit=multi-user.target to your kernel command line via grub, to boot into text mode directly; and rename back the xorg.conf
1671[15:12:33] <genr8_> interesting
1672[15:12:50] <ratrace> on the off chance the file was there for a reason :)
1673[15:13:01] <icypee> I still get the grey screen after the reboot
1674[15:13:01] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1678[15:14:52] <ratrace> icypee: alright, now you'll have to crawl through the journal and look for any clues. I'd say it'd be as easy as looking at journalctl -b -p err -p warning but I know for a fact that gnome sometimes logs errors at lesser severities, so ideally look at it as a whole
1679[15:15:26] <genr8_> maybe this has something to do with it
1680[15:15:37] <ruied> genr8_, thanks- I was wondering if there is some kind of choosing between versions when doin apt install <debian_version_or_something).
1681[15:15:38] <ratrace> you could, however start with journalctl -b -p err -p warning, netcat that to termbin.com 9999 but I must warn you there may be private/sensitive info in that output, so.... review it first
1682[15:15:42] <ruied> going to try
1683[15:15:52] <genr8_> Build Operating System: Linux 4.19.0-10-amd64 Current Operating System: Linux marcus-debian 5.8.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.8.7-1
1684[15:16:20] <icypee> It says no entries when I enter it
1685[15:16:30] <ratrace> genr8_: could be just backported kernel
1686[15:16:41] <genr8_> ruied, not easily, no
1687[15:16:54] <ratrace> icypee: journalctl -b -p err -p warning has no output AT ALL? running journalctl as root/sudo ?
1688[15:17:25] <genr8_> it probably is, but that could affect something right ?
1689[15:17:32] <ratrace> genr8_: on kernel module mismatch or xorg driver version mismatch, there'd be loud error entries in both journal and xorg.0.log
1717[15:23:08] <ratrace> icypee: followed "this" what exactly? there's a number of solutions there, none of which would get you to 450 tho
1718[15:23:19] <ruied> the only vpn that worked was one that I have created yesterday with new certificates with easyrsa_3
1719[15:23:28] <ratrace> also.... udisksd[725]: failed to load module mdraid: libbd_mdraid.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory .. I wonder if this is actually blocking gnome and chasing gpu errors is just red herring
1720[15:23:31] <ruied> going to restar my laptop
1721[15:23:37] <genr8_> icypee, "apt list nvidia* | grep installed"
1722[15:23:43] <ruied> thanks
1723[15:23:58] <rs2009> Hi there, I had a question: in Debian Buster and Sid, there are issues with running /sbin/ldconfig using qemu-i386-static (debootstrap --foreign second stage) on a Raspberry Pi 4B. However, it does work on Stretch.
1724[15:24:15] <genr8_> It should be version 440, not 450.
1735[15:25:30] <ratrace> icypee: but bottom line.... gdm login screen works?
1736[15:25:37] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1737[15:25:42] <icypee> No it dosent
1738[15:25:50] <genr8_> you buggered your system by installing "unstable" nvidia driver.
1739[15:26:15] <ratrace> icypee: ah you don't even get to the login screen, that kind of grey screen? I thought you meant after logging-in
1740[15:26:30] <genr8_> youll have to remove that from your sources.list, remove the nvidia package, and go back to reinstalling from the buster-backports 440 version
1741[15:26:31] <icypee> No I get a grey screen after I start up
1742[15:26:37] <ratrace> " im stuck on a grey screen when logging in" .. I thought you meant after logging in, okay
1746[15:27:14] <ratrace> icypee: something is seriously broken there. you also have nvidia from sid, not backports, which you wouldn't get following that page you linked. I'd recommend purging that version and installing either buster's 418 or backported 440
1747[15:27:32] <icypee> So what should I do first?
1748[15:27:35] <genr8_> thats got to be it
1749[15:27:41] <ratrace> indeed no bueno since newer nvidia might require newer mesa and xorg, and I hope you didn't pull those too into buster
1750[15:27:50] <genr8_> he probalby did
1751[15:28:12] <genr8_> how do you un-sid everything ?
1752[15:28:39] <dvs> !downgrade
1753[15:28:39] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
1754[15:28:39] <ratrace> the Ripley way
1755[15:28:55] <dvs> that's how
1756[15:29:03] <genr8_> very carefully ?
1757[15:29:07] <joepublic> how do you get the eggs and flour back out of a cake?
1758[15:29:07] <ratrace> "I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. that's the only way to be sure. "
1766[15:30:10] <ratrace> the worst part here is LYING about what you did to your system when you ask for help....... that's just..... wow.
1767[15:30:41] <icypee> Should I just reinstall Debian?
1768[15:30:44] <joepublic> I have had corporation presidents, school principals, etc. lie to me about what they did to their system and expect help. Why not randoms?
1769[15:30:52] <ratrace> icypee: I'd back up data and reinstall Stable anew, and NOT frankendebian it again
1770[15:31:08] <icypee> How do I do that?
1771[15:31:24] <icypee> What are the steps I should take?
1772[15:31:37] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1773[15:31:40] <genr8_> how much do you like your broken system ?
1774[15:31:42] <ratrace> is there any user data in there? did you fresh install it and mess it up in the process, or do you have stuff in ~/ ?
1775[15:32:27] <icypee> I don't remember
1776[15:32:35] <icypee> Its been so long
1777[15:32:39] <genr8_> then you wont miss it.
1778[15:32:45] <genr8_> its time to declare it a total loss
1779[15:32:56] <icypee> So just reinstall Debian?
1780[15:33:37] <ratrace> icypee: make a copy of ~/ at least somwhere first
1781[15:33:52] <icypee> I already did that
1782[15:34:03] <icypee> I have daily backups to my server
1783[15:34:09] <ratrace> then yes, plug in the netinst or dvd1 ISO, and reinstall
1784[15:34:31] <genr8_> I would love there to be a better way, but I dont have one for you
1785[15:34:31] <icypee> Alright thanks
1786[15:34:42] <ratrace> icypee: and this time, if you really want a newer driver, use buster-backports repo and nvida driver 440.100 . I'm using that one n otherwise purely stable debian, no issues.
1787[15:35:02] <icypee> Is it alright if I use non free,
1788[15:35:05] <icypee> ?
1789[15:35:13] <genr8_> good enough
1790[15:35:47] <genr8_> non-free is kind of a political statement
1810[15:44:59] <genr8_> my mentality is start with nouveau, if its fine then stick with it, if not and you notice an issue, switch to non-free and if it fixes the issue then stick with that. if it does nothing then go back to nouveau
1883[16:25:29] <ratrace> recyclehero: uwf is not installed by default on debian. apparmor is similar to selinux and debian has it, not much policies tho, you must write your own.
1948[17:05:10] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
1949[17:05:23] <ratrace> Lope: packagekit is some sort of backend-agnostic gui thingy used by kde and gnome and it shouldn't break your system if you remove it, no
1950[17:06:02] <somiaj> though one would think you could just disable the notifications (if you still wanted to use the gui apckage manager)
1952[17:06:49] <ratrace> partially. packagekit would periodically update or whatever and you could hit the lock if you're trying to use apt at the same time
1975[17:25:02] <icypee> uhhh i got gnome installed but now when remove firefox-esr, it reinstalls firefox
1976[17:25:16] <icypee> and when i remove firefox, it reinstalls firefox-esr
1977[17:25:18] <somiaj> icypee: most likely you have some very large meta package installed
1978[17:25:28] <greycat> ... like gnome
1979[17:25:30] <somiaj> also are you running testing? firefox is not in stable
1980[17:25:30] <icypee> how do i check if i have that?
1981[17:25:35] <Haohmaru> eww, gnome
1982[17:25:52] <somiaj> I think you'll have to install something like gnome-core and remove the meta package that keeps wanting firefox back in
1983[17:25:55] <somiaj> !install gnome
1984[17:25:55] <dpkg> To install GNOME: «apt-get install …» 1. 'task-gnome-desktop' (Debian installer default) 2. 'gnome' (recommended) 3. 'gnome-desktop-environment' (upstream GNOME) 4. 'gnome-core' (like 3, minus end-user applications) 5. 'gnome-session gdm3 network-manager-gnome' (minimalist, not recommended). You will need Xorg installed as well, ask me about <install x>. replaced-url
1985[17:26:11] <somiaj> icypee: so probably remove the 'gnome' package and install 'gnome-core'
1986[17:26:41] <icypee> but i already have gnome-core installed
1987[17:27:02] <Haohmaru> what about "gnome"
1988[17:27:02] <greycat> then you have less work to do
1989[17:27:07] <somiaj> then just remove the gnome package (And make sure gnome-core is marked as manual -- installing it (even if it is installed) will do that, there is also apt-mark
1990[17:27:26] <somiaj> icypee: also what version of debian are you running?
1991[17:27:32] <icypee> buster
1992[17:27:34] <icypee> Package 'gnome' is not installed, so not removed
1993[17:27:52] <somiaj> where are you getting firefox from then, firefox isn't in buster.
1994[17:28:03] <greycat> "aptitude why firefox-esr" might help too, to tell you which metapackage is "holding" it in
2025[17:34:41] <greycat> OK, there you go. If you want to remove firefox-esr, you will have to remove gnome-core, or provide it with one of those other browsers.
2050[17:38:13] <somiaj> though this particular issue isn't an unstable issue, but #debian-next on irf.ofct.net for testing/unstable support, and in this case you either need to just keep some browser installed so gnome-core is satsified, or read what the bot said and install some of the more minimial packages (which it doens't reocmmend)
2097[17:47:17] <AppleGNU> not in any of Debian's repositories
2098[17:47:36] <Haohmaru> someone has been naughty with teh internetz
2099[17:47:38] <icypee> ohhhhh
2100[17:47:39] <AppleGNU> Haohmaru: It's unattached from Google search and services.
2101[17:47:48] <icypee> i can always just keep firefox, right?
2102[17:47:49] <Haohmaru> downloading $random things
2103[17:48:15] <greycat> how can a Unix user look at "gnome-core Depends firefox-esr (>= 30) | firefox (>= 30) | chromium | chromium-browser | epiphany-browser" and think "derp, I will install a random browser from a THIRD PARTY REPOSITORY with a DIFFERENT NAME that is NOT IN THE LIST and it should work"
2104[17:48:17] <Haohmaru> AppleGNU i'm SOOOOO skeptical about that ;P~
2105[17:48:29] <AppleGNU> Haohmaru: source code is available to audio tho
2106[17:48:37] <AppleGNU> s/audio/audit
2107[17:48:38] <AppleGNU> gah
2108[17:49:06] <Haohmaru> yeah, i've had enough google for a thousand lifetimes
2109[17:49:08] <n4dir> i tried it with dillo. Didn't work either. Weird.
2110[17:49:21] <greycat> I mean, you're a UNIX USER. You understand that the | symbol means "or". That this is a list of "a or b or c or d" and you have to have one of those things. Not q or x.
2144[18:13:56] <kristijonas> hello, my provider denies blocking outgoing 25 port on my account, offering me to check my iptables, which is: replaced-url
2153[18:19:38] <kristijonas> "Thank you for contacting DigitalOcean support ! I confirm that there is no account level SMTP restriction in place on DigitalOcean platform for your account. So please configure the application to use the SMTP ports and make sure to allow those ports on DigitalOcean cloud firewall and software firewall such as IPTables or UFW, if configured."
2154[18:19:46] <kristijonas> another, can't send out mail.
2156[18:21:07] <ratrace> kristijonas: according to that paste, it's not blocked. you should really check postfix logs for exact reason for "can't send out". also, using panels like plesk kinda makes it not really debian, as those panels take over a lot of functions with custom implementations
2157[18:22:26] <kristijonas> ratrace, alright, gonna check the log, one moment.
2158[18:22:47] <ratrace> I'm assuming that flags:!FIN,SYN,RST,ACK/SYN on line 52 means !(fin,syn,rst,ack/syn) I'm not 100% sure
2177[18:30:07] <ratrace> tohoyn: well you never said if you can see the wireless iface in the output of `ip link`. also what nvz asked, whether you're missing firmware `dmesg | grep -i firmware`
2178[18:32:01] <ratrace> kristijonas: any news on that postfix log check?
2179[18:32:04] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2190[18:35:17] <ratrace> greycat: well there's a couple of fail2ban plesk chains, so I'm guessing plesk set all that up
2191[18:35:35] <ratrace> been a while since I used it, don't remember all the details
2192[18:35:36] <kristijonas> ratrace, nope, i installed on-click application with DigitalOcean. Plesk is quite comfortable to manage your domains: websites, email and so on.
2194[18:36:07] <ratrace> kristijonas: so that iptables dump is something plesk configured, right?
2195[18:36:38] <greycat> Oh, that reminds me. I managed to get TLS 1.3 working on nginx in stretch, but it was *so* much harder than it should've been. Apparently you have to compile nginx yourself with a special --option at configure time.
2196[18:36:38] <kristijonas> ratrace, yeah, they automatically install fail2ban
2208[18:41:36] <ratrace> basically if you have http2 vhosts, the number of open connection FDs in nginx would steadily grow over time, but they're dead connections, don't match kernel's conntrack. there's more info somewhere on nginx trac, and I spotted in changelogs that it's supposedly fixed (again) in 1.17.7
2209[18:43:10] <greycat> I'm not even sure what an http2 vhost *is*, pretty sure I don't have any, no output from "grep -ri http2 /etc/nginx".
2210[18:43:58] <nickotheus> greycat, Hyper Text Transfer Protocol 2 Virtual Host
2464[20:37:44] <greycat> well, for the first, you can either use a post-up hook in your /e/n/i (if you're using /e/n/i), or you could write it as a systemd unit that has "After=network-online.target"
2465[20:37:49] <Brigo> Shtl, what are you using for network managing?
2467[20:38:05] <ratrace> archaeopter: errors mentioning your ethernet iface
2468[20:38:09] <Brigo> greycat, if he is using networking file ...
2469[20:38:15] *** Quits: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2470[20:38:55] <ratrace> archaeopter: also check if firmware is missing, I remember some realtek cards would do that without firmware. dmesg | grep -i firmware and if that produces output stating firmware files were not found, you need them
2504[20:47:09] <greycat> likewise, if I were to yank out the ethernet cable, I would not expect shutdown-ish things to occur. I would expect it to sit there mute and in pain until the cable is replaced.
2505[20:47:47] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2506[20:47:57] <ratrace> that too, hence me asking what exactly must happen on "network down"
2507[20:48:21] <ratrace> a "network down" trigger could be a periodic ping that suddenly returns packet loss or something, for example
2508[20:48:46] <Shtl> ok
2509[20:50:27] *** Quits: Shtl (3e1c205e@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2521[20:56:10] <afidegnum> hi, please how do i diagnose this error ? curl: (35) OpenSSL SSL_connect: SSL_ERROR_SYSCALL in connection to isodec.org:443
2522[20:56:42] <ratrace> archaeopter: pretty much any can copy text for you to paste somwhere. you can also use pastebinit or pipe through netcat to termbin.com 9999
2555[21:12:03] <ratrace> I don't know, from client side. except to check 100% you're connecting to the server directly, by IP, and not still via cloudflare
2556[21:12:13] <ratrace> do you control the server?
2560[21:12:59] <ratrace> does that mean isodec.org is your server?
2561[21:13:37] <afidegnum> yes, pointing to my server
2562[21:13:49] <afidegnum> i mean i have sshed into it
2563[21:13:54] <ratrace> which web server software? check its error log to see if it complains about the TLS handshake
2564[21:14:16] <afidegnum> i was expecting something like openssl, but nothing of that sort, inside /var/log
2565[21:15:13] <ratrace> because it's the web server that listens on port 443 and it's its error log to check --- assuming that part is correct, there _is_ a web server listening on port 443
2566[21:16:07] <afidegnum> yes, i have configured it to listen to port 443
2567[21:16:12] <afidegnum> using ajenti
2568[21:16:50] <ratrace> that web server is completely unknown to me. you'll have to check if it has an error log, where it is, and how to make it verbose, if there are any verbosity settings for tls handshakes in particular
2571[21:17:52] <ratrace> also make sure that the configuration is reasonable, it listens on port 443, supports modern ciphers, TLS 1.2 at least, and offers a proper certificate chain
2572[21:18:28] <afidegnum> i'm using nginx
2573[21:19:02] <afidegnum> ironically, i can't find anything inside the domain's logs, i can't even locate openssl logs,
2579[21:20:52] <dubiago> are more people using nginx these days than apache? i just started using nginx, myself. i do like the configuration file format better, but it doesn't seem to have really bought me much anything beyond that (in my use case).
2580[21:20:56] <ratrace> afidegnum: also make sure the log level in nginx.conf is at least warn: error_log /var/log/nginx/error.log warn;
2607[21:37:31] *** Quits: st-gourichon-fid (~Stephane@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2608[21:37:44] <ratrace> dubiago: if you read the news, turns out that renaiisance was due to a LOT of (otherwise inactive) domains switching hosting to some providers that used IIS
2609[21:38:10] <ratrace> well... good part of it anyway.
2611[21:39:39] <dubiago> i've always rolled my own. at least when i started hosting my own stuff, the best route was apache. i was vaguely aware of nginx, and didn't really give it a thought until i decided to give hosting a Mastodon instance a go.
2613[21:40:35] *** Quits: zapatista (~zapatista@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2614[21:42:47] <ratrace> I switched to nginx many years ago, Apache didn't have event mpm then, and php was only runnable via mod_php. that was era of 128MB or less VMs so every byte shaved counted.
2615[21:43:13] <ratrace> nginx and its extremely small footprint due to event based processing was a godsend. and I stuck with it ever since. "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" an' all that.
2616[21:43:40] <greycat> my case is similar, albeit 3x that much memory
2617[21:43:45] <ratrace> actually, wait, I switched to lighttpd first. then nginx came out and I tried it out, loved it, stayed with it.
2618[21:44:11] <dubiago> configuration is awesome. JSON, essentially.
2619[21:44:36] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2622[21:45:16] <ratrace> I read the c10k article about that time and decided I might try to write my own web server, for fun. FuryWS it was called. epoll based. then I learned of lighttpd and later nginx, so thta project died.
2624[21:46:33] <dubiago> friend of mine seems to think Java is the reason Apache kind of tailed off there.
2625[21:47:56] <nickotheus> dubiago, tell them that cobol is the reason IBM kind of tailed off there
2626[21:48:23] <dubiago> heh
2627[21:50:43] *** rf-n00b_ is now known as rf-n00b
2628[21:51:53] <dubiago> the only thing that keeps IIS afloat is state/federal government usage, I think. there are certainly MS fanbois out there, i'm sure, but those two entities are definitely a rather large contingent.
2695[22:49:29] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2696[22:49:44] <Poster> I think what they're getting at is that is probably on it's way out
2697[22:50:03] <ratrace> Emil: but from the accessible 8GB only, yes? you can pastebin any errors shown in dmesg, but in my experience, when that starts to happen, the drive is not far from going belly up completely
2698[22:50:12] <Poster> somewhat analogous to a mechanical disk developing bad sectors
2699[22:50:28] <Emil> there are no erros in dmesg
2700[22:51:53] <jhutchins> Emil: Don't know what you did to "zero it out", but it sounds like it's reading an old partition table. If you have a different OS available, you could try reading/writing/formating with that, but it's unlikely to help.
2702[22:52:40] <jhutchins> Emil: Drives have a metadata block that says something like "I'm a Toshiba 16G Baracuda dri
2703[22:52:43] <jhutchins> vv
2704[22:52:44] <jhutchins> ve
2705[22:52:46] <jhutchins> .
2706[22:52:47] <ratrace> they're not guaranteed to show. the flash controller could simply give up trying to map to parts it deems beyond rescue. and to expand on what jhutchins said, you can try dd the drive itself, no partitions on it, eg /dev/sdx
2707[22:52:51] *** Quits: ChiLLabiS (~jimmy@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
2708[22:53:18] <jhutchins> Emil: We presume you're trying to write a boot/install image to it.
2726[22:57:59] <ratrace> srged: usually through power options of whatever desktop environment you're using. there are also IdleAction= and IdleActionSec= options of /etc/systemd/logind.conf
2740[23:06:54] <ratrace> icypee: that same machine that greyscreened with 450?
2741[23:07:23] <icypee> yeah except i'm using a gt 240 this time
2742[23:07:29] <jhutchins> Emil: That's done by your desktop software (gnome).
2743[23:07:40] <ratrace> icypee: did you reinstall Debian Stable fully anew?
2744[23:07:45] <icypee> mhm
2745[23:07:52] <ratrace> you don't sound convincing :))
2746[23:08:00] <Emil> jhutchins: sure, kde, I suppose I'll ask there where the config is located
2747[23:08:15] <Emil> eeeh, it's disabled :D
2748[23:08:19] <icypee> i installed debian buster then i upgraded it to debian unstable but that's all i did
2749[23:08:39] *** Quits: Ooze (~Ooze@replaced-ip) (Quit: I have to return some videotapes...)
2750[23:08:45] <ratrace> icypee: at this point i'd recommend try another DE, like xcfce. GNOME requires a plethora of hw accelerated OpenGL functions. could be 340's libgl is not cutting it
2751[23:08:55] <ratrace> icypee: oh again you went sid....
2752[23:09:01] <greycat> icypee: if your nvidia driver uses a DKMS kernel module, make sure you install the kernel headers that match whatever kernel you're running
2753[23:09:06] <jhutchins> ratrace: Except he can't use the console.
2754[23:09:08] <ratrace> sid's for users that can fix such problems on their own. do yourself a favor....
2768[23:10:45] <ratrace> icypee: definitely make sure that nvidia actually built for the kernel you're using. in my experience, kernel upgrades required full reboot for nvidia to build properly, not sure why.
2769[23:11:01] <icypee> so when i'm in grub, press c and then type in systemd.unit=multi-user.target ?
2770[23:11:05] <ratrace> (reboot into upgraded kernel first)
2771[23:11:19] <greycat> I think it's "e" to edit the line, not "c".
2772[23:11:22] <ratrace> icypee: press e, then use arrows to find linux /vmlinuz.... line, then add that systemd thingy at the end, hit F10 to continue
2773[23:11:26] <jhutchins> ratrace: Seems like I've had to reboot to the new kernel, then reboot to get dkms to build a couple of times (2 reboots).
2774[23:11:29] <icypee> ok thanks
2775[23:11:46] <jhutchins> icypee: While you're in text mode you might look at the logs too.
2776[23:11:54] <ratrace> jhutchins: possible. I never investigated why's that. dkms is supposed to build for all kernels detected on the system
2777[23:12:24] *** Quits: MrTrick (uid181961@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2778[23:12:35] <jhutchins> That seems inneficient.
2783[23:14:19] <ratrace> jhutchins: but that's how it works. my pet peeve when I'm building zfs on my hosting company's rescue system which has, for some reason, four (4!) kernels present
2784[23:14:44] <sney> I've never had that experience with dkms. knock wood, I guess
2785[23:14:54] * sney building nvidia and zfs every time there's a new kernel
2793[23:22:24] <ratrace> icypee: frankly.... I'd just reinstall Stable and _stay_ on stable. use buster-backports if you really need something newer and it's in backports.
2803[23:24:01] <icypee> i forgot to install kernel headers
2804[23:24:17] <greycat> 17:09 greycat> icypee: if your nvidia driver uses a DKMS kernel module, make sure you install the kernel headers that match whatever kernel you're running
2805[23:24:31] <icypee> yeah i forgot about that
2806[23:24:36] <ratrace> technically, they nvidia-driver packages should've pulled in the headers
2807[23:24:50] <icypee> wait
2808[23:25:07] <ratrace> but you bumped to sid, so gods know what kind of frankenmoster you really have there
2809[23:25:08] <icypee> it says linux-headers-amd64 is already the latest version
2833[23:36:47] <greycat> things like "where do I look for errors", "what commands do I run when I see __ problem"
2834[23:37:10] <icypee> maybe i should just reinstall and stay on buster
2835[23:37:35] <ratrace> yup.
2836[23:37:54] <dvs> icypee: yes, unstable is for developers and people that are really well versed in Debian
2837[23:38:23] <icypee> ohhhh
2838[23:39:36] <icypee> is it safe to switch back to buster on my laptop?
2839[23:39:54] <jhutchins> icypee: If you're running Debian to enjoy tinkering with the computer, testing and/or sid are good. If you need the computer to do other things like work or writing, you want stable.
2840[23:40:02] <n4dir> you can't downgrade, if that is what you are asking. You will have to reinstall
2841[23:40:30] <icypee> so once you're on sid, you're on sid for good?
2842[23:40:39] <dvs> yes
2843[23:41:04] <n4dir> i think i heard one can set the sources.list to testing and then wait for quite a long while. But that is really hearsay
2844[23:41:31] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2845[23:41:35] <icypee> ehhhh
2846[23:41:43] <icypee> i'd rather reinstall at that point
2847[23:41:55] <ratrace> yup.
2848[23:41:55] <greycat> even that's not guaranteed to work, because sometimes a package is just plain *dropped* from debian or from testing, and if you have that, your copy won't be dropped
2849[23:41:56] <n4dir> yes, best choice, in my opinion (too)
2866[23:48:25] <n4dir> yeah, someone mentioned it once. I think reinstallation takes less than an hour, depending on what you go for, copying the config files, and you are done in a few. No need to wait months or more
2867[23:49:26] <n4dir> i agree with what you said a few minutes ago: if using sid, you usually do it "for the lulz", not if you want a system to work with
2868[23:49:42] <alex11> or if you already know in great detail what you're doing and how to fix problems