26[00:22:03] <EdePopede> i tried to use something that looked like alsamixer for that modern sound system for some time because this gtk tool just sucks.
27[00:22:43] <somiaj> EdePopede: it shouldn't. You can talk to pulse with different clients.
28[00:22:46] <EdePopede> now when i unplug and replag the loudspeakers i don't have to switch manually from digital to analog like i did in the past, i have to kill the sound server instead.
29[00:22:51] <somiaj> there are clit tools for pulse (if you are talking about pulse)
30[00:23:00] <EdePopede> right, pule
31[00:23:02] <EdePopede> pulse
32[00:23:27] <EdePopede> but forget about their cli thing, it's unusable for non-technicians
33[00:24:26] <EdePopede> and i can't even find any trace of that tool. either i installed it with apt, so i should have something in the logs and a deb. or downloaded, so it should be in /usr/local/bin. nada.
34[00:25:22] <EdePopede> lol, found it. in the download area of course^^
50[00:33:57] <n4dir> not saying it makes sense, but i would also look if something is to be found in alsamixer
51[00:34:15] <EdePopede> somiaj: a cookie file, 3 blobs, then 2 more: $HASH-default-{source,sink}
52[00:34:25] <n4dir> else there is #lau and #opensourcemusicians.
53[00:34:35] <EdePopede> 1 line each, that's alsa_output.pci-0000_00_14.2.analog-stereo and alsa_input.pci-0000_00_14.2.analog-stereo
54[00:34:47] <somiaj> EdePopede: you could move all that stuff out of the way, and see if pulse restets back to default settings. Might fix the issues.
55[00:35:11] <EdePopede> right, could have thought of it already. usually it's just what i'm doing
56[00:35:30] <somiaj> since some app could have modified files in there if you think the app you ran caused this new issue
57[00:36:07] <EdePopede> odd, right now it is on Line Out (unplugged), has the same entry for Headphones. nothing digital, first time ever afaik Oo
66[00:40:18] <EdePopede> nice. back to normal it seems. killed the server, started the controller, had only digital. plugged out and in, analog was back. even with (plugged in)
67[00:40:54] <EdePopede> n4dir: i tried to get through the architecture, got stuck every time.
68[00:41:21] <n4dir> tell me about it. Once sound goes south it gets very confusing. Glad you got it sorted
81[00:42:48] <somiaj> there was another few generations of sound servers before jack/pulse, gnome use to have its own one, esound or something like that.
83[00:43:04] <EdePopede> knew a guy who built his own mini moog. even this....
84[00:43:04] <somiaj> kde had their won sound server.
85[00:43:19] <n4dir> EdePopede: Say what ? How cool is that
86[00:43:39] <somiaj> though mostly sound servers are used due to the fact that cheap hardware is cheap and doens't have hardware mixing, though the switching sound streams on the fly, and better per application control of pulse is things you can't easily do at the hardware level.
87[00:43:41] <n4dir> i found a how-to build a mini-moog with vcvrack, but haven't dared yet
88[00:43:53] <EdePopede> n4dir: indeed. he was proud of it and had a reason to be :)
89[00:44:55] <EdePopede> i'd really like someone with A LOT of time and enough knowledge of the topic to write a long paper on the whole topic
90[00:45:26] <EdePopede> are sound cards even popular these days?
101[00:46:46] <EdePopede> i remember i tried to understand the whole codec stuff in win3.1 already. which of course came with a book of 800 pages :P
102[00:47:00] <somiaj> EdePopede: problem is dmix is a poor software mixer, and most sound cards can't mix, but I agree, for most alsa and its dmix should be enough.
103[00:47:26] <EdePopede> tbh the reason why i HAD TO get to PA was skype. and i didn't want to drop it back then
106[00:48:34] <EdePopede> what i don't get with alsa how it handles different hardware combos. i don't implant new things on a regular base, still i had no idea what some of the entries were meant to be
108[00:49:38] <EdePopede> one thing i really liked tho: plugging in the headphones didn't mute the speakers, so it has to be a software thing in PA i guess
127[01:08:34] <edufmass> Hello, I don't speak english very well hehe, I've read a lot about partitions and there are many recommendations. I have one ssd 240gb m2 disc and one hdd sata. I would like to have some virtual pc (with kvm) for php dev, another java dev and win c# dev. which partitions are recommended? which one in ssd and hdd ?
145[01:15:47] <coruja> partitions depend on your needs and customs, i'm fine with one partition for each os, one /home, and some more for data, audio, video which i mount into $HOME
146[01:15:49] *** Quits: phunyguy (~blaahchm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
174[01:24:56] <ratrace> EdePopede: heads up, no more console scrollback in buster :/
175[01:25:54] <EdePopede> i didn't really like it anyway. no chance to switch to another tty and keep the scrollback. not to talk about the lack of erm... what C-o thing in midnight commander. alternate screen or w/e.
176[01:26:41] <EdePopede> i was just surprised to see that i could use mpv in it while running X :o
178[01:29:12] <sorcerer> so i normally been ubuntu never really did debian head on, got it installer on an older laptop to play with now though
179[01:29:37] <sorcerer> anything i should know coming over from ubuntu?
180[01:29:43] <sorcerer> tips/tricks?
181[01:29:55] <EdePopede> forget about PPA and the like
182[01:30:17] <EdePopede> if you need newer things, build or look for backports first.
183[01:31:12] <sorcerer> i see it doesnt come with sudo setup for the first user like ubuntu
184[01:31:21] <EdePopede> !sudo
185[01:31:21] <sorcerer> no problem, it was just weird when it wouldnt let me sudo
186[01:31:21] <dpkg> [sudo] (Substitute User DO) Not enabled by default on Debian systems; configure /etc/sudoers first, ask me about <visudo>, <sudoers>. sudo can give limited super user privileges to specific users, or allow you to do silly things like run X apps with root permissions, or good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program". See also <sudo path>. replaced-url
187[01:31:24] <sorcerer> lol
188[01:31:48] <sorcerer> i wasnt expecting it
189[01:32:07] <EdePopede> oh, does #ubuntu have such a helpful bot?
190[01:32:30] <sorcerer> if you trigger it right
191[01:32:41] <sorcerer> doesnt trigger just from one word like that did
209[01:34:55] <EdePopede> srsly! 2GB RAM with a swap partition on a 80GB barracuda. and a GT630 graphics card, can you imagine how faaaaaaaaaast this system is?!
221[01:36:36] <ratrace> sorcerer: 68.12 is, but the next esr, 78.3 is coming
222[01:36:45] <sorcerer> oh ok
223[01:37:11] <ryouma> are there settings one can do on debian that make it more user-responsive in times like when the system takes minutes or hours to respond to mouse movement or keyboard?
224[01:37:11] <sorcerer> whats the esr mean? i never seen esr before, or never noticed it (keep in mind this is my first actual debian install lol)
225[01:37:14] <EdePopede> from 68 to 78? did they drop their +7 scheme?
226[01:37:55] <ratrace> well they do have money issues..., and now big chunk of the team is gone
227[01:37:57] <ryouma> (please assume "add more memory" and "purge firefox-esr" and "don't run any firefox extensions ever" are not in this case options for my above question.)
228[01:37:59] <sorcerer> i need some more usb flash drives
229[01:37:59] <EdePopede> sorcerer: extended support release or so
230[01:38:21] <sorcerer> okay
231[01:38:24] <sorcerer> question
232[01:38:26] <sorcerer> its booking now
233[01:38:29] <sorcerer> but
234[01:38:35] <sorcerer> how do i do firmware stuff
235[01:38:43] <sorcerer> it says some stuff is being disabled cause of it
236[01:38:43] <ryouma> sorcerer: suggestions for those are welcome if you are willing to pm me
237[01:39:03] <ryouma> (referring to --- 16:37 <sorcerer> i need some more usb flash drives)
238[01:39:23] <EdePopede> ryouma: in my case it is usually firefox (RAM) or copying tons of files (or just really big files) (disk i/o, maybe also in team with swapping at the same time, see the firefox mentioning)
240[01:40:16] <EdePopede> unfortunately it uses around 30% soon after start already, even with noscript :/
241[01:40:39] *** Quits: luuuciano_ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
242[01:40:57] <ryouma> EdePopede: yeah i think it was firefox, downloading a big download, plus just you know firefox, and swapping to a swap file (which arch wiki says is as performant as partition) on the same hd. and i had 100% swap used and 89% memory used or so. but in such times, i'd like much more priority given to keyboard and mouse and display. can this be done?
245[01:41:36] <genr8_> try using ZRAM for memory and swap compression
246[01:42:02] <EdePopede> ouch, that's a lot. right now i have 1.18G/1.96G on RAM and 1.70G/5.00G on Swap
247[01:42:05] <ryouma> oom killer went on a spree killing irqbalance first and then emacs (i'd have preferred firefox, i.e. whatever was using and requesting memory)
248[01:42:41] <EdePopede> i was thinking already to define a hotkey to start something that kills firefox in that case
249[01:42:42] <ryouma> genr8_: is that an odyssey to set up?
253[01:43:51] <ryouma> can oom killer be set to kill what is (2) alraedy using, and (2) freuently requesting memory? can kernel priorities be set to favor user actions?
255[01:45:06] <ratrace> the upcoming systemd-oomd will improve that situation
256[01:46:13] <EdePopede> i hope with Rust the situation will get better. as what i've read one of its advantages is you don't leak memory all the time.
257[01:47:33] <EdePopede> maybe there will be a linux release of these one day :) replaced-url
258[01:47:37] <ryouma> firefox will use rust?
259[01:47:48] <ryouma> upcoming meaning soon to be in stable?
263[01:49:43] <ryouma> ok so upcoing to be in testing
264[01:49:52] <EdePopede> ryouma, this looks like a starting point replaced-url
265[01:50:52] <ratrace> ryouma: with systemd v247 I think
266[01:52:15] <ryouma> i am systemd-ignorant but will just hope. what is very strange is that everything perfoprmed smoothly on my previous machine with only 4gb memory with 4gb swap partition; this one has 6 and 1 swap file and is much worse.
267[01:52:41] <ryouma> swappiness makes no difference whtehr 60 or 1 on this machine while on the old machine 1 was really good
268[01:52:43] <EdePopede> swap *file*?
269[01:53:00] <ryouma> yes, arch wiki says it is just as performant
270[01:53:30] <EdePopede> never used one i think. could test it on the other one... some day :)
275[01:57:57] <Mazhive> guys i am having dificulties to get my pxe to work again i had a unexpected rebbot whil configuring , at had bein working for days my setup is router dhcp and a pxe server diffrent then the dhcp
294[02:15:27] <dpkg> Unofficial <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
421[03:28:06] <RadoS> ratrace, on system A "quiet" makes disappear both kernel messages and service startup, while on system B it affects only the kernel messages but keeps service startup showing.
422[03:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1083
423[03:29:17] <RadoS> Since the OS install is identical, it must be something hardware related...
424[03:30:49] <RadoS> On A I had to change the default video driver from glamor to intel, because of glamor didn't funtion performantly.
443[03:58:25] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
444[04:00:08] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
445[04:00:26] <somiaj> jim: kde doesn't come with its own compositor? xcompmgr is the one I know of, but looks comption is a fork which has some additional features (that is what I've used in fvwm)
450[04:06:55] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
451[04:07:52] <jim> somiaj, actually I'm given to understand that the window manager kwin -is- the compositor (which kinda means I dunno what a compositor is, so my intent is to try ed effects in the DE)
452[04:08:41] <jim> somiaj, need to pause for about 30 mins
453[04:09:18] <somiaj> yea some window managers are compositors, others are not, xcompmangr/comption are for window managers that aren't
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460[04:20:01] <Mazhive> it seems there is no answer yet i had it working very strange... i am getting pretty frustrating... now
461[04:23:05] <somiaj> Mazhive: ghose here with experience with preseed files are a bit low, and I agree some documtation is a bit sparse on them too. Don't they produce a log? That is where I would start debugging.
462[04:23:14] <Mazhive> i have search the net like crazy and i am getting a headache why it worked and now it is broken
463[04:24:24] <Mazhive> the preseeed works great but i had some body shutdown the computer while configuring the pxe server and it doesn't work any more
465[04:24:34] <somiaj> are you using a different install image since before it worked and now that it doesn't work?
466[04:25:05] <somiaj> So there is an issue with the pxe server after this?
467[04:25:27] <somiaj> again this is out of my expreience/knowledge, so not much real help I can do except maybe talk about it to see if something comes up you didn't think of yet
468[04:25:34] <Mazhive> let me explain my pxe server deploys images that pxe serve does not work any more what ever settings i throw on it it just does not work
469[04:26:40] <Mazhive> i am pulling my hair out at the moment and getting pretty bald right now
470[04:27:01] <somiaj> And you said the pxe server was shutdown while you were modifing it?
471[04:27:37] <Mazhive> yes so i had to revert to a an old file which ofcourse was a previous one not working
473[04:27:50] <somiaj> is the pxe server some service, have you looked at the logs for this service? Checked that it opened up a port (or some method to talk to) on the network?
475[04:29:53] <Mazhive> i cant remember pxe server has logs it hands over the services to tftp-hpa after initial dhcp requests
476[04:29:57] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. What do I run to find out if my system is picking up the microphone's connection?
477[04:31:00] <Mazhive> and in between that its not working
478[04:31:15] <Lady_Aleena> I ran lshw, but no microphone listed.
479[04:31:19] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: do you have pavucontrol ran
480[04:31:25] *** Quits: ChiLLabiS (~jimmy@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
481[04:31:31] <Mazhive> pxe client gets ip but stops after that
482[04:31:32] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: what type of mircophone is it? Is it a usb microphone or attached to your sound card?
483[04:31:48] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, yes, it doesn't have it on the input list. It is attached to my sound card.
484[04:32:09] <Mazhive> it seems the handling of who has to do what gets lost
485[04:32:13] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, and it is a cheap microphone that came with one of my old old old computers a long time ago.
486[04:32:27] <somiaj> Mazhive: Sorry can't be of much more help, maybe someoen with experience with pxe experience can help. Checking back during the week (monday) may also get more users with said exprience.
496[04:37:02] <somiaj> seems to suggest if you add load-module module-alsa-source device=hw:2,x, where x is 0-4 (I'm seeing four different devices there, I would assume 0, but unsure which audigy device you plugged it into)
497[04:37:40] <somiaj> but that seems to be suggestions to make pavucontrol (pulse) see the mic if it doen't
498[04:39:50] <jmcnaught> "pacmd list-sources" should say if pulseaudio recognizes the mic is plugged in (under ports it will say available: yes)
505[04:49:29] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: weird on mine the built-in card does. Are you also using pavucontrol? What do you have the Audigy set to on the Configuration tab there?
506[04:49:30] <Lady_Aleena> Should I use `pulseaudio -k ; pulseaudio -D` to restart pulseaudio or something with `systemctl restart ...`?
507[04:50:04] <jmcnaught> I use "systemctl --user restart pulseaudio" (as user, not as root)
529[05:01:53] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
530[05:01:55] <ryouma> i noticed there is an xbindkeys amybe it can do it?
531[05:01:58] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj and jmcnaught, thanks for your help. I still can't get my mic to work, but it is probably tied to all my other audio problems that have followed me since wheezy.
546[05:05:15] *** Quits: metro (~metro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
547[05:05:39] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: well now it says "available: unknown" under ports, maybe your sound card doesn't to plug detection
548[05:06:12] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, probably not, the card is ancient.
549[05:09:21] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, I have so much that doesn't work with my sound system. I have a speaker that won't play, I can't turn the volume below 20%, controlling the volume with my keyboard volume keys locks the button on my taskbar for several minutes, and now the mic won't work.
551[05:10:17] <ryouma> somiaj: thank you. is there any intelligence on what mod1...modn do? i get that mod1 is alt, is all. i think i want to assign ctrl alt f12
552[05:11:04] <Lady_Aleena> But XFCE doesn't come with its own sound controller like KDE did, so I have to make do with what little sound control I have with the very lackluster pavucontrol.
553[05:13:12] <ryouma> hmm emacs captures some of these keystrokes... i have to choose something it does not capture?
554[05:13:39] <nvz> triggerhappy is much lower level, as I said already
555[05:13:56] <Lady_Aleena> Maybe when the next version of Debian comes out, I will pull the current hard drive out and install a fresh Debian on a new hard drive.
557[05:14:46] <nvz> in fact if you need something more global and lower level than triggerhappy you're probably going to have to go directly into the kernel itself
558[05:14:53] *** rf-n00b_ is now known as rf-n00b
559[05:15:56] <jim> Lady_Aleena, ltns... how are you?
560[05:18:14] <Lady_Aleena> jim, hello. I haven't been using the command line for much lately, so I've stayed out of Linux and Debian. Right now I am frustrated/annoyed with my system, but when am I NOT frustrated/annoyed with my system? How are you?
562[05:19:47] <jim> taking a somewhat easy piano class, and a -hard- english class...
563[05:20:17] <Lady_Aleena> jim, shall we go to offtopic?
564[05:20:19] <ryouma> nvz: does it need a daemon? there is no man page, so i am just looking at th3e readme and it is not clear what to do to assign e.g. ctrl shift f12 to a command
565[05:20:33] <jim> sure
566[05:20:35] <nvz> ryouma: its thd is the executable, and yes its a daemon
567[05:20:50] <nvz> ryouma: look in /usr/share/doc/ for example configs I believe are included
568[05:24:04] <ryouma> the 1 and 2 stuff in the examples seem to say that this controls what type of keypress it is. but when you use + to combine them, you still only have one of those. so it is not clear what one would do with one modifier key and one function key.
569[05:24:23] <ryouma> i read the readme and the examples
613[06:00:59] <nvz> if whatever you specify in the first field is held, its 2
614[06:01:39] <ryouma> i could do 1 then but i have to hold for what3ever i have set for xset r?
615[06:01:39] <nvz> yes if you want it to happen on press
616[06:01:48] <ryouma> 2*
617[06:02:12] <nvz> !tias
618[06:02:12] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
619[06:03:07] <ryouma> ok so sounds like i have to create a file, souce it using an option, and run the daemon, and ... nohup it? and then KEY_LEFTSHIFT+KEY_F12 2 ado kill-firefox in the file?
620[06:03:48] <ryouma> maybe i can do some kind of <() deal on the command line instead of a file to not keep everything in one place
621[06:03:59] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
632[06:06:32] <nvz> might wanna learn at least the basics
633[06:06:44] <ryouma> so now it is even more confusing. the daemon is started upon installation, but i didn't specify the config file for it to read from
634[06:06:51] <ryouma> which it says is necessary (or so it seems)
635[06:07:09] <nvz> yes, well thats why you might want to restart the service or look at the status
636[06:07:15] <ryouma> oh ok in etc
637[06:07:25] <ryouma> which is reasonable
638[06:07:37] <nvz> its a GLOBAL hotkey daemon
639[06:07:43] <nvz> it works outside X or any user login
640[06:08:35] <ryouma> well here goes nothing i will try that line there
641[06:09:59] *** Quits: b (coffee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
651[06:23:19] <c_nix> netinst of testing cannot locate iso
652[06:23:26] <c_nix> i see its a recurring error
653[06:23:30] <c_nix> over the years
654[06:23:31] <somiaj> ryouma: look at xmodmap, they can be configured to be any key you want, but default alt(meta), shift and ctrl are not mod1-5, though one of them is the windows key by default
655[06:23:40] <c_nix> wonder why
656[06:23:48] <ryouma> nvz: i tried putting "KEY_LEFTSHIFT+KEY_F12 2 /root/sh/ado kill-firefox" in triggers.d/kill-firefox, then in case it helps"systemctl restart triggerhappy", then had that ado script write to /root/triggerhappy to show the result, then held down shift f12 for a few seconds. the file was not created.
657[06:23:52] <somiaj> c_nix: how do you copy the iso to your usb drive?
658[06:23:57] <c_nix> dd
659[06:24:01] <c_nix> bs=1M
660[06:24:07] <c_nix> too big?
661[06:24:31] <somiaj> I just use cp, it has nicer defaults, but that shouldn't be an issue. That is a common error that one gets when they use tools like unetbootin
663[06:24:57] <somiaj> anyways two comments 1) testing support is in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net, and 2) testing is usually best installed using the stable installer then upgrading
664[06:25:00] <somiaj> !testing installer
665[06:25:01] <dpkg> Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. replaced-url
666[06:25:12] <c_nix> so devs failed to make proper img?
667[06:25:39] <nvz> ryouma: and what do you suppose the permissions are on /root/ ?
668[06:25:40] <somiaj> could be, the testing installer is know to be buggy, though it isn't as buggy as it use to be, it has never been the suggested way to install testing
680[06:27:43] <ryouma> you are fond of socratic dialog :/
681[06:28:18] <nvz> ryouma: since you seem to lack the basic knowledge I had given you credit for, lemme let you in on this bit of info.. typically dameons like this that start via systemd have a file to override their defaults.. in /etc/default/ you may want to have a look at /etc/default/triggerhappy
682[06:28:21] <c_nix> i dunno how to answer it in more details
683[06:28:56] <ryouma> nvz: doesn't seem to work for /tmp either
696[06:31:43] <somiaj> it might just be bad testing images, but the install guide recommends cp as it has nicer defauts, but this shouldn't be an issue. Also make sure you run sync when done
697[06:31:46] <nvz> ryouma: in fact, think of anything you can do to someone, and try do that to nobody and see how that works out for you
698[06:32:00] <nvz> its called nobody for a reason
699[06:32:50] <nvz> ryouma: take my advice, have a look at /etc/default/triggerhappy
700[06:33:31] <nvz> ryouma: if you want to do something that requires permissions of /somebody/ then dont run it as _nobody_
701[06:33:41] <somiaj> nvz: they really don't need that if running fluxbox, and probably should just use fluxbox to make keybindings
702[06:34:21] <somiaj> ryouma: anyways, I would just use fluxbox's key bindings, no need for a thrid party app just for keybindings
703[06:34:44] <nvz> somiaj: idk, all I know is I suggested a hotkey system I know to be very flexible and that supercedes most everything.. wms, xsessions, userlogins..
704[06:34:59] <nvz> they seemed to indicate that hooking x layers was not sufficing for their needs
705[06:35:33] <somiaj> Might be nice if you wanted something that is independent of the wm, but in most cases wm bindings give you access to the wm features more directly
706[06:35:38] <ryouma> i changed tghe /etc/default settings to retain root and it still doesnot work
707[06:35:54] <nvz> ryouma: did you restart the daemon?
708[06:36:11] <somiaj> independent: don't message people links.
716[06:40:59] <ryouma> somiaj: i prefer something that will work when the system is overloaded and keys are almost not working at all, and i like the idea of working in the console also in case i am there and not in x, and also if i switch wm some day, and i like the idea of holdingit down for a bit before it will work (for safety). BUT i will use whatever works at this point. i decided to forget about the to-me-inscrutable modn syntax
717[06:40:59] <ryouma> and use shift instead, so shift f12 will work (dangerously). i will possibly kill firefox by accident as a result, but it is a start. if i figure out which mod is control, i will add that! thank you for the polite and useful set of tips.
718[06:41:26] <ryouma> nvz: the status does not include logs. it does have the error message i reported above.
719[06:42:27] <ryouma> namely Device /dev/input/event5 not suitable.
727[06:50:29] <nvz> I don't know enough about systemd to tell it to regenerate from the init.d script, but I do know you can manually edit the service file
728[06:51:02] <ryouma> so it is a bug?
729[06:51:09] <nvz> ryouma: you can edit /lib/systemd/system/triggerhappy.service and do systemctl daemon-reload and systemctl restart triggerhappy
730[06:51:24] <nvz> ryouma: might be, not sure.. I'd file it against triggerhappy either way if you care to, yes..
731[06:51:33] <ryouma> and then upon a dist-upgrade i would need to edit again?
732[06:51:38] <c_nix> just avoid systemd - problem solved
733[06:51:39] <ryouma> i think i will pass if so
734[06:52:02] <nvz> ryouma: however I tested writing to /pressed after editing the service file and verifying the daemon was actually running as root, and it worked
735[06:52:13] <nvz> ryouma: I simply used touch /pressed
737[06:52:41] <nvz> ryouma: the key still had the effect of the focused app in X, but triggerhappy got it first and did what it was supposed to
738[06:53:07] <nvz> ryouma: i.e. the key still did what it normally would with whatever was on the screen, but triggerhappy did its part
739[06:54:39] <ryouma> somiaj: control shift might work; i will try that at some point when i am not exhausted. again thank you.
740[06:56:51] <jmcnaught> Shouldn't be editing files in /lib/systemd/ they are owned by packages and will be overwritten during upgrades. Files in /etc/systemd/ take priority over files in /lib/systemd/. There's also "systemctl edit foo.service" which opens an editor and saves the file as /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/override.conf ("man systemd.unit")
741[06:58:28] <ryouma> jmcnaught: thanks. too exhausted to try, but have made note that maybe i can edit to get it to work.
742[06:58:30] <jmcnaught> that override.conf file is a "drop-in", you can use it to override just certain directives instead of replacing the whole file from /lib/systemd
743[06:58:48] <somiaj> (the only thing I wish systemctl edit did was show the default options so you knew which ones to change -- end up having to read the service in another terminal as well, but the override idea is nice)
744[06:59:08] <somiaj> maybe have them all commented out so you only uncomment what you want to override
745[06:59:50] <jmcnaught> yeah I think it would be more intuitive if it opened the unit file in the editor. Saving that (edited) file in /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/bar.conf would still work I'm pretty sure.
746[07:00:46] <somiaj> like only save a diff (though that might be limiting). I understand the power of the overrides, allow system updates to take effect if they aren't overriden, but I find it confusing to use in practice.
747[07:01:10] <somiaj> hence why I was thinking comments, the editor could strip them out before saving the file.
748[07:02:13] <jmcnaught> Well you can also use drop-in overrides for systemd conf files like logind.conf, but I just copy the original default logind.conf to /etc/systemd/logind.conf.d/local.conf and edit it there.
749[07:02:30] <somiaj> jmcnaught: the only reason they don't save the whole file is it allows system updates to take effect if only some small part was override (my understanding)
750[07:03:14] <ryouma> so it's in sections or something?
751[07:03:21] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
754[07:04:10] <jmcnaught> So that your local override drop-in is not blanket overriding everything including options you didn't intend to be different from default that have changed in the new version.
755[07:04:14] <somiaj> ryouma: basically you can only override part of the unit file instead of have to matain your own full unit file. It is a useful idea, just a pain to actually use without knowing systemd inside and out (for knowing what overrides to write out of the box)
756[07:04:48] <somiaj> not having a copy of the unit file while you are editing just means you need another terminal for most users.
760[07:06:37] <nvz> afaik other daemons respect /etc/default/ when run from systemd #971064 fwiw
761[07:07:00] <nvz> judd won't be aware of it for awhile, but thats the number in my configurmation email
762[07:07:44] <nvz> seems like this just wasnt fully updated to work when ran from systemd as it just sorces that /etc/default/triggerhappy from the init.d script which is superceeded by the service file
763[07:12:46] <jmcnaught> looks like the triggerhappy.service unit file is missing EnvironmentFile=-/etc/default/triggerhappy under the [Service] section, which could of course be put into a drop-in.
773[07:47:48] <ryouma> i am still unclear on what /etc/default does (at least, why it isn't just something in /etc/whateverprogram). i understood it at one point, i think.
774[07:48:20] <ryouma> also, i noticed that there is a magic sysrq facility that is enabled by default on debian there. i wonder if that can be useful in low memory cases?
775[07:48:43] <ryouma> the url that it points to is a 404 however which is not encouraging: replaced-url
776[07:48:49] <nvz> the files in /etc/default are suppose to be global defaults for things that are started automatically by the system
777[07:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1083
778[07:49:30] <ryouma> why not just have /etc/triggerhappy/global-default-for-daemon.txt?
779[07:50:07] <nvz> jmcnaught: I wasnt sure how something like that could be achieved in systemd, if you could append the bug report I filed.. if not I'll try remember to test it and look into it later
780[07:50:22] <nvz> #971064
781[07:50:46] <nvz> apparently judd still isnt aware of it yet
782[07:51:33] <nvz> its been 45min now .. idk what the deal is with judd not seeing newly filed bugs
783[07:51:40] <somiaj> files in /etc/default were kinda a hack to put configurable stuff for sysv init.d scripts without having to edit the whole script. With systemd there really isn't a need for it, just make a local overide to the unit file.
784[07:52:10] <somiaj> judd probably only updates the database it uses once a day or so.
785[07:52:29] <nvz> scraping rather than looking up on demand seems wasteful
786[07:53:07] <nvz> and the local override thing seems far more complicated than the maintainer putting somehing in /etc/default where people can easily find and modify it
787[07:53:36] <somiaj> only because that is what many older users are use to, 'systemctl edit unit' and then put the right info is quite simple
790[07:54:37] <somiaj> the only reason to really keep files in /etc/default is if you want a way that works with both sysv and systemd (or other init systems). Some packages will use this, but not all.
791[07:54:40] <nvz> the nice thing about the stuff in /etc/default is it often has a template and commentary for the kinds of things you'd want to change
792[07:54:54] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
808[08:32:11] <bigfluff> forgive me debian, as i have sinned
809[08:33:02] <bigfluff> for some reason my clean install process involves: 1) backing up files, 2) installing a new distribution, 3) regretting #2 and re-installing debian
918[10:12:07] <Guest6262> Debian buster has a GUI-configuration for wake on lan. Technically it should work if i check the magic-box under "Ethernet" in "Editing <connection-name>", right?
919[10:12:34] <Guest6262> (with etherwake on the remote machine)
925[10:19:51] <genr8_> your BIOS has to support it and have the option enabled too
926[10:21:07] <Guest6262> genr8_ ok... i'm looking for a manual for my mainboard right now. Are my machines on OSI Layer 2 when they are connected over a modem/router on the same subnet?
927[10:21:32] <genr8_> um
928[10:21:43] <genr8_> you mean the router is in between them ?
929[10:22:23] <genr8_> a router is layer 3, if thats what you're asking.
930[10:22:36] <genr8_> a switch is layer 2
931[10:23:01] <flayer> if the cable is plugged in on both ends they are connected
932[10:23:22] <Guest6262> genr8_ so if my modem has a built in switch they are on OSI 2?
936[10:25:17] <Guest6262> hmm... Scince the only relateable BIOS-Option (Power on by PCI Devices) is enabled i guess it's the router that blocks the magic packets somehow
1045[11:50:01] <Jemt> Hi. OpenDKIM fails on reboot, but works fine when restarting it using 'systemctl restart opendkim'. /var/log/mail.err and mail.info contains no errors. Can someone give me a couple of ideas on how to identify the cause of the problem ?
1046[11:50:35] <Jemt> It "feels" like OpenDKIM is being started too early - perhaps something is not ready yet
1052[12:00:44] <Jemt> Weird. I was able to resolve the problem with OpenDKIM failing on boot by making it start after MariaDB. I simply altered '/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/opendkim.service' - i added "mariadb.service" to the After parameter: After=network.target nss-lookup.target mariadb.service
1130[12:56:26] <reith> Hi. if I want install some script in my package that is not intended to be executed directly by user, but shipped services i put in my package, where should i install them? the closest thing i find is to include them in examples which goes to /usr/share/<pkg>/doc/examples but mine actually is not doc related :)
1243[14:37:43] <RadoS> Just for comparison, can anyone see the service startup messages on boot on console with "quiet" boot param to drop the kernel messages?
1253[14:40:26] <RadoS> What would be the correct setup to drop the kernel messages but keep service startup/systemd?
1254[14:41:36] <ratrace> RadoS: you sure you have that flag in correct place? should be on the line linux /boot/vmlinuz/... ro quiet in the grub menu entry, when you edit it with 'e'
1258[14:42:51] <RadoS> And it is there at boot time.
1259[14:43:26] <RadoS> When I removed it manually once for testing with 'e', the messages appeared (along with kerne).
1260[14:43:27] <ratrace> RadoS: you can silence only the kernel messages with sysctl kernel.printk but I don't know if that's effective within intramfs from the beginning
1261[14:43:44] <ratrace> RadoS: yes, removing "quiet" would start showing kernel and systemd messages on boot
1262[14:43:57] <ratrace> having quiet and still seeing them should not be possible
1263[14:43:58] <RadoS> Maybe I should file ticket.
1264[14:44:38] <RadoS> But I don't want to _lose_ that, but have it "back" for the failing system. :-(
1265[14:45:08] <ratrace> not sure I understand. you want kernel + systemd messages displayed?
1266[14:45:19] <RadoS> No, just systemd, not kernel.
1267[14:45:44] <RadoS> kernel is too noisy, scrolls too fast to be useful to notice problems.
1268[14:46:31] <ratrace> then I think you can remove "quiet" and adjust dmesg/printk log level with loglevel=N kernel command line option
1271[14:47:27] <RadoS> ratrace, even if that's the "right" way to achieve what I want, still it would be nice to have all 3 systems behave consistently. ;-)
1272[14:47:32] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1273[14:48:01] <ratrace> RadoS: and all three systems have exactly the same grub menus + sysctl.conf ?
1274[14:48:18] <ratrace> exactly the same, save UUIDs of course, I'm talking kernel options
1275[14:48:19] <RadoS> ratrace, yep, & thanks for the lin.
1276[14:48:53] <ratrace> RadoS: maybe you think you do but you don't really? updated grub and kernel initramfs after changing relevant files?
1277[14:49:04] <ratrace> compared /boot/grub/grub.cfg between them ?
1278[14:49:39] <RadoS> Yes, after you suggested to me removing the "quiet" for crosschecking.
1284[14:52:57] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1285[14:54:49] <RadoS> all are 32-bit legacy boot, no software difference except for hardware dependencies, which primarily is the gpu: 1 ati OK, 1 Intel(R) 945GM OK, 1 Intel(R) GM45 Express
1298[15:00:06] <reith> i'm trying to use substitution patterns in my packee's install file but neither of these directives expand: var/lib/${PKGNAME}, var/lib/${env:PKGNAME}, var/lib/${DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH}. install have `#! /usr/bin/dh-exec` and I exported PKGNAME in rules.. i just see files being installed in /var/lib/${<whatever>} :\
1309[15:07:08] <RadoS> That's my problem, I don't know how to isolate it...
1310[15:07:54] <RadoS> I don't know enough about the interaction between kernel, gpu, systemd at boot.
1311[15:08:22] <RadoS> gpu being the only relevant difference as far as I can tell.
1312[15:09:50] <ratrace> without that the filing of the bug is.... much less effective
1313[15:11:24] <RadoS> I know, but maybe those maintain each component have a better grasp of which part their component plays in it.
1314[15:11:30] <RadoS> +ing
1315[15:11:42] <ratrace> sure, just saying if you can find a reproducer, that'd be great
1316[15:12:04] <RadoS> That's what I hoped to find here, a clue for it. :-)
1317[15:12:11] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1318[15:13:22] <ratrace> RadoS: so to be 100% sure what you're saying, is that with "quiet" on the kernel command line options, you still see systemd and/or kernel prints on boot?
1319[15:13:40] <RadoS> No kernel, just systemd.
1320[15:14:15] <ratrace> RadoS: are those just errors or ALL of them?
1321[15:14:20] <RadoS> ALL.
1322[15:14:49] <RadoS> You know the lines where it says "service name: OK" where OK is in green.
1323[15:15:47] <ratrace> and if you add systemd.show_status=false alongside quiet ?
1333[15:19:33] <RadoS> ratrace, hmm, that killed it. Will it make sense to try on the "offending system" to explicitely set it to true?
1334[15:20:29] * RadoS will do next time.
1335[15:20:35] <ratrace> RadoS: systemd.show_status is "auto" by default, meaning it observes the existence of "quiet", thus with those two it's possible to show one (kernel or systemd) or both or none, on boot
1336[15:21:02] <cskr> rclone in Debian repositories is 7 versions behind upstream. There is already a bug reported for this at replaced-url
1339[15:21:36] <ratrace> RadoS: now you could look into your initramfs and see if systemd is started with a --show-status= override somehow, though I don't know which one has the priority, if both commandline and kernel option are added... by some logic, --show-status (explicit) should override implicit
1344[15:22:37] <oxek> cskr: unlikely to receive a new version in debian-stable
1345[15:22:40] <ratrace> cskr: you could contact the maintainer and ask them
1346[15:22:56] <ratrace> but yes, that's never gonna reach buster, only bullseye
1347[15:23:12] <cskr> oxek: The version in unstable is 7 versions behind upstream.
1348[15:23:17] *** Quits: earthundead (~earthunde@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1349[15:23:22] <ratrace> !debian-next
1350[15:23:22] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1351[15:23:31] <ratrace> ^^ also good place to ask about ..... next.
1358[15:25:17] <ratrace> RadoS: by looking through /usr/share/initramfs-tools/{hooks,scripts} if any package added something to override, but wait, I think there's a simpler way to determine it, just a moment
1359[15:25:57] <cskr> The latest upstream version of rclone is 1.53.1, but the one in unstable is 1.50.2.
1360[15:26:36] <ratrace> cskr: we got that. your optoins are to askn in #debian-next on OFTC, and/or contact the maintainer asking how you can help with a version bump
1361[15:27:05] <cskr> ratrace: Thanks. The channel is invite-only, how do I get invited?
1362[15:27:15] <dvs> cskr: on OFTC!!
1363[15:27:24] <ratrace> RadoS: is there an init= override in the kernel command line?
1365[15:29:25] <cskr> dvs: I misread the bot message and thought the channel is invite-only on OFTC.
1366[15:29:35] <ratrace> RadoS: well I don't know then. short of dissecting the initramfs init script (which I'm not willing to guide you through as it's time consuming), I guess you could just file a bug report and at least state that you can override that behavior with systemd.show_status kernel option
1367[15:30:02] <RadoS> ratrace, that already helped a lot, thank you for your patience.
1411[15:58:22] <cskr> ratrace: I'm talking about Debian's rclone repo. I didn't even ask. Either it was just an awesome coincidence or the maintainer is here. The bug got updated after about 3 months just when I happened to ask about it here.
1535[17:54:08] <Mazhive> oke a fresh vm install just works out of the box yet my configuration is not working i suspect i have a running service that interferes with the dnsmasq not able to hand over the path of the pxelinux.o
1571[18:18:53] *** Quits: fxp (~fxp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1572[18:19:55] <Waxhead> Trying to figure out how to remove grub2 from a system with many disks. I am trying to debug a boot problem and on the server I am using the BIOS is a bit nuts e.g. I can't enter the setup screen and choose boot order. Therefore I would first and foremost like to uninstall grub on all disks except one before trying to restore my beloved mess to it's former glory. So how do I remove grub (and not the partition table) ?
1598[18:34:20] <jelly> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdXXX bs=440 count=1 # UNTESTED, presumably GNU dd is smart enough to first read the whole sector, and then put back a copy with new values in 440 bytes, and rest unchanged
1621[18:46:32] <EdePopede> live always includes nonfree?
1622[18:46:47] <jelly> velix, I don't think packages.debian.org is behind a CDN, so something is interfering with your http(s) access. If you need to grab a .deb manually you can also try snapshot.d.o, eg. replaced-url
1629[18:49:18] <dpkg> Unofficial <live> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for Debian 10 "Buster" as a live OS are available at replaced-url
1630[18:49:53] <EdePopede> ah, just found it. on the jigdo page there's an explicit link to nonfree+live. went up the tree from there a bit.
1641[18:54:36] <velix> jelly: hehe, faketime uses /usr/$LIB/faketime/libfaketime.so.1 in LD_preload ;)
1642[18:54:40] <jelly> faketime is also useful if you have a Debian 6 system still installed, the only way to verify and apt-get install packages without completely ignoring gpg sigs
1643[18:54:59] <velix> I'm curious what happens on 2039 :D
1664[19:07:52] <jelly> which particular file fails to exist?
1665[19:07:57] <EdePopede> i tracerouted some of the secondary servers in the country before, the next i could identify from its domain has values around 20ms also
1666[19:08:04] <EdePopede> 1st jigdo
1667[19:08:22] <EdePopede> but works with http, so probably it has only a problem with the protocal
1707[19:27:13] <jelly> EdePopede, oh, if jigdo only tries plain http and the server redirects you, breaking the download, that's either a bug for replaced-url
1727[19:32:56] <Mazhive> oke i need a debian specialist .... concerning services or protocols
1728[19:33:10] <EdePopede> so i'd say it may be a protocol issue
1729[19:33:22] <jelly> EdePopede, sounds like a clear-cut bug in for jigdo package
1730[19:33:27] <transhumanist> hi is there any file system that can run, even as a third party add in for windows that would allow me to access rw to by both windows and linux that supports unix permissions? I was looking at ext2 but unfortunately those windows programs wont run on Windows 10, figured I would ask here to get some more abscure ideas, I have exhausted all other avenues
1733[19:34:05] <EdePopede> jelly: a case for debbugs or oftc?
1734[19:34:53] <jelly> transhumanist, windows has much better and sadly very different ACLs than Linux. Perhaps you can use a network share like samba?
1751[19:39:37] <Casper26> Anyone had problem with firefox speedtest being very slow? i upgraded to gig service and speedtest using cli show 960 down in firefox only get 310 down subsequently chrome gets 960 down?
1752[19:39:48] <transhumanist> jelly, do you know when the drive shows up in windows explorer , do they mean windows explorer as a disk?
1753[19:40:08] <transhumanist> 20 bucks seems like an ok price to pay if it does
1754[19:40:25] <EdePopede> done. so roundabout half an hour for ISO-1.
1755[19:40:45] <jelly> they also work differently, NTFS ACL have consistent inheritance. unix permissions only inherit set[gu]id from parent dir as a special case
1760[19:42:13] <transhumanist> for me as a development environment using OpenNAS-ISCSI-Windows Initiator-WSL2-Debian-Networking- ext4 disk mount, I think preseving the basic permissions would be ok
1761[19:42:31] <transhumanist> the problem is the programs in linux balk at lack of ability to set permissions
1771[19:44:40] <Casper26> but speedtest are accurate on everything except firefox works in chrome?
1772[19:45:48] <jelly> transhumanist, used to be "for Linux", and they're the same company that made FUSE-based ntfs-3g, I can't find a better page for Linux than that now
1773[19:46:16] <transhumanist> thank you very much jellly, I think because its just data transfer, that I should stick with EXT4 mount on windows and Linux native , so I will use the first one but thanks for the second link anyway
1786[19:48:56] <transhumanist> I have had good luck with iscsi and I know it well , so nfs would be a good adventure, but with what you just said , its good to know
1787[19:49:02] <jelly> Casper26, maybe avoid reliance on browser performance completely, and use speedtest-cli ?
1791[19:50:35] <Casper26> jelly cli works fine but since firefox is my default browser i would like for it to work correctly chrome works out of the box
1797[19:55:57] <sponix> Casper26: odd, because I have had the speedtest-cli with the broken stats, and the browsers posting accurate ones - you claim the opposite
1798[19:56:13] <Casper26> yup
1799[19:56:51] <Casper26> but like i said only happens in firefox chrome works as expected but i dont like chrome
1800[19:57:00] <jhutchins> transhumanist: Once you have gigabit networking, local hardware/performance has much more effect on speeds. My old spinning-rust core2 duo gets nowhere near the speeds my wife's newer SSD system gets.
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1886[20:43:51] <Mazhive> jezus.,... i got it ... it seems the firewalld rles got corrupted and had to manually add the ports again i figured it out because a fresh install worked out of the box which does not use a firewall damn.... that toke me some time to figure out ...
1887[20:44:43] <genr8_> What am I supposed to do when I "cat" a Binary file to my xfce terminal, and it corrupts all the text from then on... replaced-url
1888[20:45:03] <joepublic> typing `reset` can help
1964[21:17:23] <somiaj> is nextcloud even in debian. That does sound like a targeted fix issue that could be fixed in a point release.
1965[21:18:01] <somiaj> alexbh: file a bug report with the debian BTS about that issue, that does seem like a serious enough bug that if a targeted fix can fix it, it might make it into a point release (but only the fix, not a new version)
1966[21:18:08] <jmcnaught> Nextcloud itself is not in Debian but the desktop client is, and some integration packages for caja, nemo etc.
1970[21:19:45] <alexbh> lets say... I use 2.5 which is not working... but there is a fix on 2.7 and 3.0 (bullseye).... so I dont want to wait until the package 3 is released with bullseye
1971[21:20:02] <somiaj> alexbh: you can build your own backport
1977[21:21:25] <somiaj> debian helper is in backports already, so that part should work, unsure about dh-sequence-sphinxdoc though, but that might come with the debian helper from backports, so yea looks like it is possible you could compile a newer version
1980[21:22:50] <somiaj> alexbh: there seems to be some bugs reported about issues, but I can't seem to find one exactly releated to that issue on github. Something like that might be fixed in buster provided they can do a targeted fix.
2093[22:25:11] <merethan> Hi all. Some unnamed failure occured buring my installation (latest netinst img) of preset package collections (Desktop/Gnome, sshd, Utils). I could redo the step in the installer menu. Any chance files are now duplicated on my disk?
2094[22:26:50] <merethan> Can I grep for an extension, or run a script to check for disowned (not belonging to any package) files?
2095[22:27:05] *** Quits: fax (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2098[22:27:43] <teo7> hi, i'm trying Debian stable, but installing the drivers for my Nvidia GeForce 950m (with the command "apt install nvidia-driver"), the screen sporadically does graphical glitchs. These consist of flickering, until I move the mouse abruptly. I tried to migrate from xorg to wayland, but the latter is blocked by default when installing proprietary drivers. how can i have a hybrid system running on debian stable? This guide, for Debian 10
2099[22:27:43] <teo7> recommends using either the integrated GPU or the dedicated one, but they don't seem optimal solutions to me -> replaced-url
2104[22:29:39] <somiaj> merethan: Nope, debian packages will just overwrite the old files when a newer (or same) version is installed.
2105[22:30:34] <somiaj> merethan: dpkg -S path/to/file will let you know what package owns a file, but finding file that are not owned by any packages is a bit more work (as in many cases people will have packages outside the debian system in /usr/local, /opt, /home, etc
2106[22:31:00] <merethan> I can omit certain paths such as /opt
2107[22:31:13] <merethan> Install is fresh though, so none are there.