118[01:58:59] <nvz> not when it comes to finding something
119[01:59:07] <nvz> you search for system tray you're gonna get windows apps
120[01:59:30] <anonzzz> touché
121[01:59:49] <nvz> there are frameworks that seem to have similar promising utility as the notification area but very little uses them so far and they didnt seem very well documented
122[01:59:54] <nvz> I speak of things like appindicator
123[02:00:13] <nvz> in the future we may see more ease in putting anything into such a thing
124[02:00:35] <nvz> in fact I think some panels like xfce's have applets that can run a command and put its output into the terminal
125[02:00:56] <nvz> with such a thing it'd be trivial to display the information in question in a panel
126[02:01:02] <nvz> just not in the notification area
162[03:05:02] <JordiGH> Where does system store journals?
163[03:06:37] <sponix> JordiGH: for systemd ? or for damn near everything else ?
164[03:07:16] <JordiGH> y'know what, I'll just strace journalctl
165[03:07:31] <Unit193> Either in memory or /var/log/journal/
166[03:08:09] <Unit193> sponix: Heh, and just now a new esr is uploaded.
167[03:08:35] <sponix> Unit193: you are freaking kidding me -- right ?
168[03:09:03] <Unit193> To unstable, but still.
169[03:09:17] <sponix> Unit193: its been in "Sid" for a bit
170[03:09:27] *** Quits: amlchief (~amlchief@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
171[03:09:38] <sponix> I'm doing up a VM to see what is required to backport it to Buster
172[03:09:46] <sponix> Might be way more deps than I want to deal with
173[03:09:50] <sney> oh hey, 78.3.0esr-1 with an upload date of September 23rd. It's still the 22nd where I am
174[03:10:07] <sney> now that's timely.
175[03:10:42] <JordiGH> So what's /run/log/journal?
176[03:10:46] <JordiGH> I have no /var/log/journal
177[03:10:54] <JordiGH> I just found /run/log/journal by stracing.
178[03:11:34] <sponix2ipfw> is it judd or dpkg that does the ssb ?
179[03:12:06] <sney> sponix: building firefox is a large undertaking. if you succeed in building it for your own purposes, then you'll have it for a while before the rest of us. but ff's maintainer will certainly get it into buster-backports before long
180[03:12:16] <sney> dpkg does ssb, judd does checkbackport
197[03:16:06] <JordiGH> sney: Does journalctl work without root in daredevil?
198[03:16:12] <SerajewelKS> the fuse exfat driver can barely maintain 2MB/s write throughput and pegs a CPU core while it does
199[03:17:09] <sney> JordiGH: I don't know what you mean by daredevil, but you still need the systemd-journal group for normal user to access systemd's journal in bullseye, as in buster.
201[03:17:26] <JordiGH> Ha, sorry, I meant bullseye.
202[03:17:34] <JordiGH> My brain did an accidental substitution.
203[03:17:56] <sney> the main difference is that /run is a tmpfs while /var is not. (by default, anyway.) there may be a justification for that change in bullseye's systemd's changelog.
208[03:21:16] <sponix2ipfw> Unit193 sney : after seeing the level of involvement to build firefox-esr --- I'm just gonna wait for it to hit the backports. My slightly dated version is working just fine LOL
209[03:22:15] <SerajewelKS> looks like replaced-url
210[03:22:24] <sney> SerajewelKS: not available through the usual debian sources. some modules can be backported from one kernel to another, though it's not a trivial thing. if exfat.ko exists in a late 4.x kernel that might be doable
211[03:22:43] <sney> it'll be a fun hacky project, if you enjoy that kind of thing
214[03:23:13] <SerajewelKS> sney: it looks like the source i just pasted should work, but the dkms package there is for ubuntu, so i can either try that and cross my fingers or i can build it with make.
215[03:23:57] <sney> a dkms package from ubuntu would probably just work, or at least with minimal modification
216[03:24:39] <SerajewelKS> that was my thought as well. but adding an ubuntu PPA to debian makes me itch.
217[03:24:57] <sney> ubuntu PPAs have .dsc files like any debian repo, so you can grab that manually with dget
237[03:45:38] <sney> it's a kernel module from a newer kernel backported by one rando on github, it's basically pre-release software and should be considered unreliable
238[03:45:57] <sney> awesome that it built, though :P
270[04:01:57] <SerajewelKS> indeed. but my backup drives are connected over USB and i don't want my backups failing. with sustained writes on a crypt layer on top of a USB drive, i would suddenly get a USB disconnect and the drive would go offline until replugged.
271[04:02:10] <SerajewelKS> sounds like a drive problem EXCEPT it was consistent with 5.5 on every device i had available to test
274[04:03:14] <SerajewelKS> i never found any mention of the issue so i have no idea if it's fixed in 5.7. i also use btrfs and it's strongly discouraged to use a btrfs volume on a newer kernel then go back to an older kernel.
275[04:04:58] <sney> well that's a zfs feature I would have copied, sheesh
279[04:06:59] <sney> newer zfs versions support more features, but you have to deliberately upgrade your storage pool for them. until you do that, the pool is still usable by the older versions
280[04:07:09] <SerajewelKS> maybe that's specific to raid5 (which is still very much in development)
281[04:07:44] <SerajewelKS> btrfs has similar compat flags
386[05:53:46] <edufmass> Hello, I unziped an app into /opt/appname and I run /opt/appname/bin/app.sh, How to enable to just run app command everywhere?
391[05:59:43] <sney> /usr/local is not touched by apt or dpkg. so anything you put there is not going to conflict with a debian package, as long as it doesn't have the same name (eg 'python') as an important binary.
417[06:13:00] <sney> sponix: I've been on an ipsec vpn configured on my router since february, and it's extremely reliable, so I'll probably wait until some news from either vendor tells me it's time to switch. regardless, thank you for the link, but I am a retired networking professional.
419[06:14:44] <sponix> sney: I only know what networking is needed for server/client/rig administration .... most of which was learned just by "tinkering"
420[06:15:19] <sney> that is a good place to start.
421[06:16:02] <sney> and a lot of places will only hire you if you know how to research a solution to an issue that you haven't heard about recently.
422[06:16:18] <sney> um, but once you get paid for it, you are generally pretty handy with VPNs.
423[06:17:14] <sponix> sney: I couldn't figure out what config went in what box on the Mobile Android Wireguard app LOL ... So, I hand jammed the config on my rig, and used a QR code generator to scan the config for import :)
424[06:17:37] <sponix> sney: _now_ I can look at those config boxes though, and see what I should have been entering where
425[06:18:34] <sponix> have to admit. It took me about an hour and a half to learn how to do the basic configuration of both the server and client -- But most of that time was spent searching to find this guide that was worth a shit
426[06:18:45] <sponix> research is half the battle though
428[06:19:54] <sney> I try to filter the guides and forums out of my search results as much as possible.
429[06:21:01] <sney> everyone ships a manual of some sort. the more complicated stuff includes examples. the rest is "tinkering" as you said.
430[06:21:40] <sney> whoever wrote that guide or shot that youtube video had to figure it out too.
431[06:23:16] <sponix> other guides/examples were either more complicated than they needed to be, or only covered some aspects of what I needed. This one is segmented, but at least all segments coincide
432[06:23:55] <sponix> linuxbabe.com has some pretty good guides :P
570[09:40:06] <ariejan> Hi. I'm running buster 10.5 in lxc on proxmox. The tmpfs mount for /run/lock is set to 5M which is insufficient for my current samba install. I want to resize this, but my added fstab entry seems to get ignored completely. Any ideas how to change the size of /run/lock?
573[09:41:51] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
574[09:42:25] <ksk> ariejan: I can imagine you would need to change that on the host, might be its not "virtulized".
575[09:42:41] <ariejan> @ksk hmm, good point. I'll look into that.
576[09:42:42] <nvz> ariejan: the tmpfs are likely setup in early boot stage probably in initrd even
578[09:43:04] <ksk> (inside lxc, there is no (additional) kernel)
579[09:43:38] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
580[09:44:51] <nvz> I would imagine you can probably in debian set something like /etc/default/tmpfs and rebuild the initrd but this is all irrelevant in this scenario
603[10:02:46] <jelly> ariejan, you can mount -o remount,size=10M /run/lock on the fly to test whether it's going to work at all; I have no idea how limited LXC containers are and whether you're allowed to mount and umount things
609[10:16:33] <ksk> You cant, but chances are you can do so from the host (or modify the container itself, so it gets done on startup (via lxc.config) )
649[11:25:03] <j2mb0> hey guys, yesterday i was struggling to install audacious of debian testing but with ur help i finally managed to do it after purging the underlaying broken libraries, reinstalling them then installing audacious. thank you again
650[11:26:02] <j2mb0> my next problem is trying to install dockbarx, my terminal outputs "depends: python: any(<2.8) but it is not installable. I wonder how to start researching the subject, what does this output mean?
651[11:28:12] <ksk> !debian-next
652[11:28:13] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
653[11:28:48] <ksk> j2mb0: that means that this package needs python in a version prior to "2.8" to run - and that there is no such python available for your debian release
654[11:28:54] <j2mb0> i dont think the subject is exclusive to testing
655[11:29:01] <ksk> !frankendebian
656[11:29:01] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
657[11:29:03] *** joze is now known as jumijoze
658[11:29:29] <j2mb0> ksk: and why isnt it installable if it needs older versions?
659[11:29:36] <ksk> j2mb0: of course it is, stable has different versions of anything, and you -should not- ever encounter such an error in stable.
660[11:29:58] <ksk> because its dependencies are not fullfillable by apt
661[11:30:06] <j2mb0> How can i allow an exception?
662[11:30:10] <ksk> You cant.
663[11:30:34] <ksk> You should not "just run testing" btw. Chances are high you already broke your system in various ways.
664[11:30:56] <j2mb0> So it could be my system and not the apt sources?
665[11:31:27] <ksk> !bat
666[11:31:27] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
667[11:31:53] <j2mb0> what output are you looking for? "apt install dockbarx"?
668[11:31:56] <ksk> eh, nevermind. If you are running testing, you need to go to #debian-next on OFTC network. No need to provide the "BAT" information in here..
669[11:32:46] <ksk> Feel free to link the output over there. And no, we would need everything the faqtoid just told you, not just one out of X.
670[11:33:12] <j2mb0> i wont be able to enter the channel if it is invite only
671[11:33:13] <ksk> But I can only repeat myself: If you are not familiar with (Debian) Linux, you should not run testing.
672[11:33:30] <ksk> j2mb0: read the instructions about debian next again. Hint: Its on another network.
674[11:34:06] <Lope> is it possible to add a wifi adapter, connected as a "client" to a bridge, with network-manager?
675[11:34:07] <j2mb0> I thought i am familiar with linux dependencies until i realized this problem is infeasible
676[11:34:24] <j2mb0> thank you for your help, i will go to OFTC
677[11:35:32] <ksk> Did you have a reason to go to testing? If not, reinstall :P
678[11:35:56] <j2mb0> I cant afford reinstalling right now, my job is more important, but i will consider that
679[11:36:15] <ksk> Oof², running testing in production is..
680[11:36:18] <ksk> !testing security
681[11:36:18] <dpkg> Security updates in testing are delayed by the normal testing migration *and* may be further delayed by missing dependencies, etc. See replaced-url
682[11:36:22] <j2mb0> An expert friend suggested taking the middle way not stable and experimental but testing :)
683[11:36:40] <j2mb0> It is my home computer
684[11:36:49] <j2mb0> good advice tho ;)
685[11:36:53] <j2mb0> thought*
686[11:37:04] <j2mb0> though* omg am confused
687[11:37:11] <Haohmaru> testing is not for n00bz btw
689[11:38:33] <Haohmaru> i was recommended to get debian testing, but then i quickly found out that it's like a forest at night... so i went for stable
690[11:39:10] <Haohmaru> in #debian-next they expect you know wtf you're doing (and i didn't even..)
746[12:33:22] <Lope> flatpak remote-ls: "error: GPG verification enabled, but no summary found (check that the configured URL in remote config is correct)"
766[12:54:55] <Lope> does anybody know how to make flatpak/flathub work?
767[12:55:06] <Lope> flatpak remote-ls: "error: GPG verification enabled, but no summary found (check that the configured URL in remote config is correct)"
768[12:55:15] <ksk> !problem
769[12:55:15] <dpkg> [problem] something that can be solved, fixed or worked around if properly described. A good thorough description of the problem, with detailed steps of how to reproduce the problem, the produced output, and the expected output, is the best start to discuss a problem.
866[13:58:29] <ix_> hello, can anyone tell me how to permanently disable a service? I want to disable NTP, because there is an issue with the time (dual boot)
872[14:00:00] <ratrace> ix_: systemctl disable ntp.service, assuming ntp.service is the service unit for it :: there are several ntpd programs so depends which one you have.
873[14:00:09] <hmuller> do these images: replaced-url
875[14:00:35] <ratrace> also, you might wish to systemctl mask <unit> because disable'ing only affects explicit starting; other services may force a dependency start, so "mask" is what you want to completely, fully, prevent it from starting
889[14:05:53] *** Quits: _aeris_ (~aeris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
890[14:05:56] <ratrace> then you're probably running systemd-timesyncd. verify with systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service
891[14:06:57] <ix_> yep, that's the one
892[14:07:05] <ratrace> well, you can't uninstall that. you can "disable" or better "mask" the systemd-timesyncd.service . assuming you actually want to shoot yourself in the foot and disable an NTP service. clocks drift all the time.
893[14:07:21] <ratrace> ix_: but eh.... dual boot with windows issues? you can regedit windows to use UTC time
908[14:12:00] <ix_> yes, I know that the clock drifts, I'm fine with it
909[14:12:18] <ratrace> ix_: in which case you might wish to set your rtc time in debian to localtime
910[14:12:30] <ratrace> timedatectl set-local-rtc true (I think)
911[14:12:52] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
912[14:12:52] <ratrace> that way, windows time-sync will set rtc clock to localtime, so at least you'll have somwehat correct clock when you boot back from windows
913[14:13:11] <ix_> ratrace, my Debian clock is UTC
914[14:13:30] <ratrace> you'll have to set it to locatime unless you want it off
915[14:13:43] <ratrace> off = offset by your timezone
916[14:14:17] <ix_> ratrace, well, if it thinks that my time is UTC and the BIOS time is UTC, then it will show me BIOS time, which is actually local time
917[14:15:03] <ratrace> my OCD is screaming, pulling its hair out and screaming, now, btw, so thanks for that.
918[14:15:10] <ix_> :)
919[14:15:11] <hmuller> lol
920[14:16:00] <dvs> ix_: you want to disable ntp because the BIOS clock keeps getting changed by Debian?
947[14:24:15] <no_gravity> Is there a command like "watch" that does not clear the screen after each output? So you can do "watch uptime" and see kind of a log of the load?
948[14:24:53] <ix_> ok, so I did the following: timedatectl set-local-rtc 1 && timedatectl set-timezone mytimezone
949[14:25:12] <ix_> it worked beautifully
950[14:25:20] <RadoS> no_gravity, you can do that yourself in shell-cmds.
976[14:33:33] <Lope> ratrace, selecting Haswell / Haswell-IBRS / Haswell-NoTSX / Haswell-NoTSX-IBRS in KVM is not about emulation. it's about restricting instruction sets. And by doing so one might get better perf because of not needing to do mitigations for those instruction sets.
979[14:35:24] <ratrace> Lope: if you want to disable mitigations, then disable mitigations in the guest (and host). adding vt-x traps to instructions is not the way to go
980[14:35:50] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
981[14:37:01] <Lope> ratrace, what do you mean by "traps" surely selecting the instructions just limits what the "cpu" will tell the kernel it has?
984[14:37:53] <ratrace> Lope: vt-x works by setting "traps" or interrupts where the CPU will hand off execution to a hypervisor-specified function
985[14:38:11] <ratrace> Lope: without that, the hypervisor would need to run full emulation layer which would nuke the performance
986[14:38:21] <Lope> ok
987[14:39:08] <ratrace> also I'm not sure that by disabling specific instructions you actually prevent spectre/meltdown mitigations from running. maybe a small subset of them, but really if you want them off, just disable them.
988[14:39:29] <ratrace> for linux guests, add "mitigations=off" to kernel command line and bob's your uncle. for windows, google for it, you'll have to regedit some things, but it's doable.
989[14:39:39] <Lope> ratrace, I wonder why there are 4 variants of Haswell offered by KVM?
990[14:40:26] <hmuller> is that "uncle=bob" ?
991[14:40:29] <Lope> mitigations=off sounds cool, but then you better not browse the web in the VM etc.
993[14:40:55] <ratrace> Lope: the browsers fixed javascript timing precision so it can't be used to xploit spectr or meltdown
994[14:41:49] <genr8_> Those variants are hardware instruction capability Mitigations=ON though
995[14:42:06] <ratrace> and also, I have yet to read about a report of meltdown/spectre being actually used in attack in the wild. they're very hard to pull off, and make sense only for some limited, highly targeted server virtualization circumstances
996[14:42:34] <ratrace> "wrench security" would be much, much, much cheaper with much better results, for any attacker.
997[14:42:51] <genr8_> I anticipate no real difference in setting the flags in the hypervisor vs the guest kernel
1000[14:43:28] <genr8_> cloud providers would want to enable them that way.
1001[14:43:48] <ratrace> genr8_: well some things are done twice, like trampoline and other mitigations in gcc
1002[14:43:54] <genr8_> where they cant control the guest, and they opt for mitigation instead of speed
1003[14:43:57] <Lope> ratrace, also, a spectre/meltdown attack is probably quite obvious in terms of high CPU usage.
1004[14:44:20] <genr8_> the retpoline is different than the IBRS hardware instruction provided through microcode
1005[14:44:28] <ratrace> Lope: maybe, maybe not. Have you ever seen one? ;)
1006[14:44:40] <Lope> kind of like when you boot a windows 10 VM and it Windows de(off)ender grinds 8 threads at 100% CPU usage for 15 minutes on every boot.
1009[14:45:31] <ratrace> Lope: it's much likely to contract something much more efficient, than meltdown/spectre, on windows.
1010[14:45:38] <ratrace> much *more likely
1011[14:45:55] <genr8_> IBPB+retpoline or IBPB+IBRS Is needed to fully mitigate it
1012[14:46:05] <Lope> ratrace, can't say I have. But it has to hammer the fuck out of CPU registers and whatnot to extract one bit per every few minutes or whatever, so I'm sure that would involve some high CPU usage.
1017[14:47:42] <genr8_> like I said, those 4 Haswell choices are really for cloud providers who control the hypervisor only. If you control your own OS, you can do other things.
1027[14:49:47] <ratrace> Lope: second most secure option is native CPU (no hypervisor shenanigans) with up to date microcode; the first most secure being using a CPU that's not vulnerable in the firrst place
1028[14:49:59] <jelly> Lope, I don't notice 15 minute loads on our virt. enviroment _at all_; it has peg CPU and run for hours-days for us to react
1054[14:57:18] <genr8_> yea, i just confirmed, you need to explicitly set the "IBRS" cpu option in qemu to expose that feature to guests. just having a safe CPU does not allow the guest to take advantage of it
1055[14:58:11] <genr8_> heres a giant guide replaced-url
1056[14:58:32] <ratrace> {g}: I do that for nginx, but quick google shows me Apache can do that with access logs too. I log response processing time, both total and specifically backend. That, in correlation with client-side (eg in firefox, developer mode, you can see various stages of request), you can get a much better picture of where the problem is
1063[15:00:22] <ratrace> {g}: so you get logs showing how much time it took to service the request in total (from connect to close), how much of that was backend, how much of that was web server (up until first byte is sent), etc...
1064[15:00:30] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1065[15:00:40] <ratrace> {g}: but of course it is helping. you see exactly how much time particular stages take
1066[15:00:48] <genr8_> if you are picking the names, you have to explicitly pick the IBRS name. if you are picking "passthrough" then you don't.
1067[15:01:15] <ratrace> for example, if apache does everything with 10msec, but total response time (which includes sending back to the client) is 1000msec, that means 990msec was in the network, sending back
1110[15:14:34] <genr8_> its not fine. you dont want the content.
1111[15:14:44] <{g}> genr8_: Why not?
1112[15:14:51] <ratrace> still.. that's higher on the OSI stack so non-network processing is involved in that total time. not quite comparable to lower level ICMP
1113[15:15:26] <ratrace> {g}: and you can't measure network congestion with a single packet. you need flows, and correlate latency with bandwidth with packetloss
1114[15:15:58] <{g}> ratrace: I can run the "time wget ..." multiple times to get a feel.
1124[15:19:34] <ratrace> also that curl test is bs. like genr8_ implied, getting back content includes server-side processing time (though HEAD may do that too) and there's no way to isolate it
1125[15:19:35] <{g}> ratrace: Google is probably answering from a CDN endpoint that is close enough to me.
1126[15:19:55] <ratrace> {g}: no. you're doing it wrong.
1127[15:20:00] <genr8_> its better than wget.
1128[15:20:14] <{g}> ratrace: I want to know if my datacenter is shaping my traffic. For that, I think its fine.
1129[15:20:15] <ratrace> comparing apples to oranges, not controling variables, your metrics are worth zero.
1130[15:20:41] <ratrace> {g}: most certainly isn't. your DC could do _different_ QoS for different routes, eg. to google
1131[15:20:44] <genr8_> one get request is not gonna tell that
1132[15:20:58] <genr8_> you said yourself theres CDNs. and different routes.
1133[15:21:18] <{g}> There is always a "could".
1134[15:21:35] <genr8_> internet exchanges and peering matters also
1135[15:21:52] <ratrace> {g}: but you have no way of knowing that, so your metric in _that_ respect is useles
1136[15:22:17] <genr8_> you want something like PathPing, or MTR
1137[15:22:22] <{g}> ratrace: Well, then we have different opinions. I think we exchanged our argument.s
1138[15:22:27] <ratrace> eg. wget'ing 100b from google and wget'ing 100b from your own server, the difference in time tells you exactly nothing.
1139[15:23:02] <genr8_> ratrace is right
1140[15:23:03] <ratrace> {g}: except this is not a matter of opinion but scientific methodology of isolating variables when collecting objective metrics.
1141[15:23:31] <ratrace> if you get 20msec in one and 40msec in the other you have NO other datapoint to tell why there's 20msec difference.
1143[15:24:24] <{g}> ratrace: If I see that the time to wget google goes up 10x every time I see my pages take 10x longer, I can assume it is because of the network.
1144[15:24:43] <ratrace> {g}: no. it could be due to a situation in your kernel
1145[15:24:49] <ratrace> see? no datapoints to tell the difference.
1147[15:24:59] <{g}> If google stays at ~10ms even when my own pages suddenly take 10x longer, I can assume it is not the network.
1148[15:25:18] <ratrace> quite the contrary, it could be the specific route to your server. no datapoint to tell otherwise.
1149[15:25:50] <genr8_> thats why you want the ICMP ping, not a full HTTP request
1150[15:25:58] <ratrace> {g}: unless you sit on a backbone router, there's probably 5-10 hops between your machine and your server. more if your server is geographically distant
1193[15:43:42] <ratrace> genr8_: what's that ubuntu page actually saying, I'm not sure I get the context of why you posted it. does it mean native cpu in qemu-system won't actually expose all instructions to the guest?
1195[15:46:01] <genr8_> yes. if you run qemu with the named CPU models, it won't.
1196[15:46:13] <genr8_> you have to run it with the "Host passthrough" model, aka "-cpu host"
1197[15:47:09] <genr8_> if you use the names, the non-IBRS is "legacy" and was not updated. a new Name was added for IBRS instruction support. (so as not to break peoples stuff)
1247[16:06:12] <ratrace> dupin: so what's the actual problem?
1248[16:06:23] <greycat> zerocode: show us the ACTUAL ERROR that inspired you to try to purge this package. Then show us the ACTUAL COMMAND that you typed when attempting to purge it, and the ACTUAL ERROR from that command.
1249[16:06:26] <dupin> I cann not open thunar
1250[16:06:37] <ratrace> dupin: try it from command line, see if it complains about anything
1262[16:08:05] <genr8_> good. he has broken brain. purged too many brain cells
1263[16:08:08] <ratrace> I really shouldn't laugh. some people are genuinely dislexyc. not a laughing matter. but I can laugh at their choice to use text-only medium for help? yea, I can, can't I.
1329[16:36:38] <genr8_> i found out the hard way that hostnames in iptables scripts cant be resolved on startup with no internet connection and cause resolve errors and cancel out the entire script from loading
1330[16:36:49] <jolt> I'm out of batteries on my remote mindreading cap, so I can't help either.
1379[17:03:37] <match_it> ivzhh, I "remember" yes but none of broken
1380[17:03:38] <genr8_> that would be why :)
1381[17:03:52] <genr8_> buster removed a lot of packages, that seems to be one of them
1382[17:04:03] <greycat> I'm also really suspicious of how the reported errors are truncated right where any useful information like the package version might appear.
1389[17:05:59] <greycat> The package version number probably says something like "ubuntu" in it, which would be why a malevolent person would try to hide it while asking for help in the wrong channel.
1390[17:06:18] <ksk> Sora: Ignore that, gimme a second, wrong link..
1393[17:06:47] <jelly> Sora, sadly yes, the linux kernel is still a bit buggy when there's no swap at all
1394[17:06:49] *** Quits: kale (~kale@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1395[17:07:00] <jelly> give it just a tiny bit like 64MB or 512MB
1396[17:07:10] <ratrace> Sora: abd tgus replaced-url
1397[17:07:13] <jelly> it helps in corner cases
1398[17:07:15] <cdown> Sora: Swap space and RAM are mostly tangential. Swap itself is more or less essential in any modern operating system, because you need the ability to promote forward reclaim for types of memory which are otherwise locked in
1399[17:07:16] <ratrace> lol! *and this
1400[17:07:44] <cdown> I'd recommend 512M+, more if you happen to have a lot of anonymous slack.
1425[17:10:21] <jelly> cdown, I solve that by regular swapoff -a; swapon -a :-(
1426[17:10:38] <ivzhh> if you make the swap on lvm, then you can adjust later.
1427[17:10:41] <cdown> Sora: The kernel doesn't swap without reason, so if you have space, give it a few gigabytes. If you're space-constrained, then whatever isn't going to result in it filling up and thrashing.
1428[17:10:54] <ratrace> cdown: if swap gets full you need to rethink your configuration, RAM size or (over)commitment policy
1429[17:10:58] <Sora> nah I could give it 128GB or whatever
1430[17:11:01] <Sora> but I don't think there's a reason
1431[17:11:08] <cdown> ratrace: Or you need to rethink your swap amount.
1432[17:11:11] <cdown> jelly: lol, did you know why swapoff -a is so slow? I've still got that on my list to fix
1433[17:11:12] <jelly> because even with vm.swappiness = 1 the thing still manages to fill it up sometimes even if there should never be that much pressure
1437[17:11:31] <ratrace> cdown: if your system needs to swap in and out at, say, 32G, even with SSDs that's gonna slow down the system significantly
1438[17:11:46] <ratrace> the more swap you give it, the more pain it's gonna inflict in swapstorms
1439[17:11:54] <jelly> cdown, it is absolutely not optimized at all. I suspect the order it goes is basically random, and I/O are page-sized-tiny
1440[17:12:14] <jelly> cdown, it has worked this way since like kernel 2.4
1441[17:12:17] <ratrace> so, you need swap just to take off the edge and satisfy buggy kernel mechanics that _rely_ on some of it existing. anything else needs changing your RAM size or how much you take from it
1442[17:12:25] <cdown> ratrace: If _that_ happens, it means you don't have enough memory. But there are plenty of other reasons you might run out of swap space.
1443[17:12:29] <cdown> For example, having tons of slack.
1444[17:12:35] <cdown> jelly: Oh, it's way worse than that.
1445[17:12:51] <cdown> jelly: We do an O(n^crazy) walk through each virtual memory area, for each page, with no caching whatsoever
1446[17:12:58] <cdown> That's why swapoff is often CPU-bound
1447[17:13:09] <ratrace> cdown: the only reason you're running out of swap space is that you have less memory than your applications want.
1448[17:13:12] <Sora> so large amounts of swap is actually bad?
1449[17:13:21] <ratrace> there is no other reason. any other reason can be distilled back to that one reason
1450[17:13:29] <jelly> cdown, so it does things in... memory address order? :-)
1451[17:13:39] <Sora> i know this isnt debian but on windows i remember i didn't have enough swap and the system used to run out of memory even though it was only using 50% of the actual ram. dont know if that applies to linux
1452[17:13:40] <cdown> ratrace: That's simply incorrect, I'm afraid. Applications and userspace memory allocators often simply do not know how much they need ahead of time.
1467[17:16:23] <ratrace> cdown: or in other words you can overcommit way more than physical RAM (hence the name), because at the end of the day it's all about how many pages are active and what the kernel thinks can page out as inactive
1468[17:16:32] <cdown> ratrace: Ok, but there can be absolutely humongous amounts which are only needed at some tiny fraction of the process lifecycle.
1469[17:16:34] <jelly> except if kernel bits do crazy stuff (nvidia.ko + zram+swap = bad things)
1470[17:16:49] <ratrace> cdown: well, yes
1471[17:17:03] <cdown> ratrace: So your statement that the reason cannot be "you need more swap" is simply incorrect
1472[17:17:15] <ratrace> jelly: or you throw in ZFS into the pot. THEN stuff gets extra crispy, juicy, interesting and mindblowing, at the same time! :)
1473[17:17:16] <dob1> I am reading sed manual, I don't understand /pattern/d pattern is a regexp?
1474[17:17:17] <cdown> In many cases, slack for workloads can be in the order of tens of gigabytes.
1476[17:17:35] <ratrace> cdown: you mean "need more RAM"? that's what I said
1477[17:17:38] <cdown> And that's production workloads which are already optimised for physical memory allocation. For non-prod, it's definitely a lot worse.
1478[17:17:41] <genr8_> sed /d is delete
1479[17:17:45] <jelly> ratrace, well ok, ZFS has Solaris VM bits bolted onto Linux, or something
1481[17:17:53] <cdown> ratrace: 16:13:09 < ratrace> cdown: the only reason you're running out of swap space is that you have less memory than your applications want.
1483[17:18:04] <cdown> ratrace: These applications don't want that memory. Their malloc decided they should get it as part of the pool.
1484[17:18:18] <cdown> And that's often far unrelated to what the developer actually intended.
1485[17:18:23] <ratrace> cdown: by "want" I mean actively used pages
1486[17:18:36] <ratrace> I don't mean malloc 1PB on a 16GB system and use maybe 1GB of it
1487[17:18:55] <jelly> ratrace, then don't look at Gnome app VSS
1488[17:19:08] <ratrace> =)
1489[17:19:12] <jelly> they come close to that
1490[17:19:47] <genr8_> just say Noo to GNome
1491[17:19:50] <cdown> ratrace: It's simply not true, I'm afraid. Using working set shrinking, we've reduced physical memory workingset by huge amounts with no penalty to memory pressure.
1492[17:20:03] <genr8_> NO*
1493[17:20:22] <ratrace> cdown: I think we're talking about different things here
1495[17:21:16] <cdown> When I said "if swap gets full, you may need to rethink your swap amount", your reply was simply "no". I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing.
1496[17:21:38] <jelly> cdown, if you fix it I will have to buy you a beer, this was annoyed me for a decade or two
1499[17:22:09] <ratrace> bottom line of what I'm saying is, if you have swapstorms then the simple asnwer is your applications want more active memory at any given moment than your physical RAM allows so the kernel is busy paging out what it thinks is inactive and paging back in what's faulted on
1500[17:22:22] <cdown> jelly: My swap rework patchset to fix swap behaviour hopefully will be out this half. I just need to make swap shrinking work.
1501[17:22:34] <cdown> I'll let you know when it's posted. I'm hoping around 5.11/5.12.
1502[17:23:30] <cdown> ratrace: Well, you mentioned swap storms a lot later than your original comment ;-)
1503[17:23:30] <ratrace> but anyway, in context of that, the larger the swap, the more pain there will be inflicted in such swapstorm situations. ideally you want only a bit of swap, enough RAM to accomodate active pages at any given moment, and don't overcommit unless you really know what you're doing and that most of overcommitted ram will be inactive and can be paged out in vast amounts.
1504[17:23:45] <jelly> sometimes there are other weird reasons, like NUMA making kernel decide it's faster to swap out than to access RAM connected to the other cpu socket
1505[17:24:10] <jelly> suddently your database fills up only half the RAM on a 2 socket machine, and the rest goes to swap
1507[17:24:30] <cdown> ratrace: Thrashing is tangential to the page recycling amount, not the swap amount.
1508[17:24:37] <ratrace> cdown: well I'm a simple sysadmin, not a kernel dev, so it's possible I used slightly..... inappropriate or incomplete terminology. :)
1509[17:24:42] <cdown> s/tangential/proportional/
1510[17:24:59] <genr8_> what about this replaced-url
1511[17:25:19] <genr8_> The idle page tracking feature allows to track which memory pages are being accessed by a workload and which are idle. This information can be useful for estimating the workload’s working set size,
1512[17:25:33] <ratrace> cdown: yes but the more swap there is, then more stuff can be paged out and if all that is suddenly reclaimed.... :)
1513[17:25:36] <genr8_> The kernel internally keeps track of accesses to user memory pages in order to reclaim unreferenced pages first on memory shortage conditions
1561[17:35:04] <ratrace> under which circumstance would a file change inode but nothing else (mtime, size, shasum, ownership, xattrs)? or maybe that's somethign specific to ZFS (as it's ZFS it happened on, already asked in #zfsonlinux, no answer)
1562[17:35:57] <greycat> first thing that comes to mind: the file was deleted, and then restored from a really comprehensive backup
1564[17:36:31] <genr8_> my first thought is the xattrs actually were changed, and then changed back.
1565[17:36:53] <genr8_> wait no that wouldnt work
1566[17:37:00] <genr8_> ignore that
1567[17:37:17] <genr8_> greycat is right
1568[17:38:12] <ratrace> that didn't happen. I think it's due to ZFS and what arcane magick it does in the background when the fs is being snapshotted
1569[17:38:30] <dob1> greycat, I was testing the command before using all the option I need for it... I don't deserve an ignore for this
1570[17:38:47] *** Waggie2 is now known as Waggie
1571[17:39:13] <genr8_> for snapshots, it would be the same inode unless it was written over again
1572[17:39:25] <genr8_> so something had to have been touched.
1573[17:39:34] <ratrace> or in other words, seems like it's not a filesystem agnostic behavior unless it's what greycat said, which isn't what happened, thus it must be zfs specific
1575[17:40:08] <genr8_> maybe you 'mv'ed it from one dataset to another
1576[17:40:15] <ratrace> genr8_: now _that_ is possible yes. it's roundcube temp files, and I have AIDE rules that exclude file addition, removal, mtime changes, and today I saw an isolated report that inode, and nothing else, changed on them
1577[17:40:28] *** Joins: metro (~metro@replaced-ip)
1601[17:52:34] <dpkg> <Aleric> pumpkin0: I noticed that there are a LOT of capacitor on the the motherbord of 1200 micro Farad (6.3 V), that ALL have 'burst open' ;) .. stuff is coming out of it. I now think that it might be a reason for at least extra instability.
1698[19:00:39] <greycat> that's certainly not *helping* the benchmark
1699[19:00:42] <jelly> and it works!
1700[19:00:45] <neilthereildeil> i couldnt find dev/null...
1701[19:00:52] <greycat> you WHAT
1702[19:00:58] <ratrace> and on that note, I noticed /dev/urandom -> /dev/null is slower than I'd expect it. I could swear I saw it in hundreds of MB/s in previous years, now it's only 80 MB/s on the same computer with 4.19
1717[19:05:19] <ratrace> neilthereildeil: direct IO skips filesystem pagecache; that said, I don't know if ramdisks are subject to pagecache'ing at all
1765[19:37:20] <dpkg> Zen is :)(:, or a school of Mahayana Buddhism, or the Zen kernel: a variant of the Linux kernel optimized for desktop systems, including code not present in mainline. Liquorix kernel image packages (replaced-url
1766[19:37:58] <TuxCrazy> jelly, thanks.
1767[19:38:13] <jelly> de nada
1768[19:38:41] <jelly> often the bot knows more than people do
1882[21:29:55] <slanck> does anyone know how to get the virtual address from a struct page on Debian 8? I have been using page_to_virt() that works fine with CentOS but the same operations don't work on Debian 8
1883[21:30:01] *** Quits: earthundead (~earthunde@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1886[21:30:54] <slanck> I am trying to do that manually by using gdb: (((unsigned long)(0xffffea0001d31200 - 0xffffea0000000000) >> 6) << 12) + 0xffff880000000000
1887[21:31:10] <slanck> the command above work on CentOS 7 (3.10) but doesn't work on Debian 8 (3.16)
1888[21:32:55] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1889[21:35:10] <nvz> I'm not much of a programmer but that sounds like a kernel thing to me, if not a glibc thing
1890[21:35:20] *** BenderRodriguez is now known as help
1945[22:31:24] *** Quits: deltanedas (~deltaneda@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1946[22:31:25] <jelly> GNU\colossus, I think there were some separate images for the old macs requiring 32bit EFI, but it's possible those were added to default installer lately
1947[22:31:31] <ratrace> firefox-esr-78 landed in sid. yay... and stuff.
2085[23:38:35] <BadPractice> i try to get my pocket book (pb632) to to sync with calibre but calibre does not see it. however it gets mounted like a flash drive
2110[23:50:21] <jelly> ornxka, which debian release is this supposed to be?
2111[23:50:36] <ornxka> its been so long i dont remember
2112[23:50:43] *** Quits: yuta (~pi@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2113[23:50:49] <jelly> if you're on sid, ask in
2114[23:50:51] <jelly> !debian-next
2115[23:50:52] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
2121[23:51:12] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
2123[23:51:31] <jelly> ornxka, what "apt-cache policy" says is more useful.
2124[23:51:44] <ornxka> ah gotch
2125[23:51:45] <ornxka> a
2126[23:52:25] <jhutchins> !debian-next
2127[23:52:25] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
2137[23:54:26] <jhutchins> jelly seems willing and able to help you, and the information he requested will probably be needed in -next too.
2138[23:54:58] <jhutchins> ornxka: It's pretty much expected that things like that will happen in sid, and the only solution is often just to wait it out.
2141[23:56:32] <jelly> well if you're on sid you're expected to know or be able to learn your way around and maybe fix things in ways that would not be recommended on Debian stable
2142[23:56:59] <jelly> like cherrypicking a snapshot from three days ago and downgrading a couple packages to make things work
2146[23:58:26] <akp55> were can i go to learn about user mappings for containers? i am using podman under root for running pods, and mapping directories to container from my user to them, the directory owner is getting changed. i'd like to understand how to prevent that
2147[23:58:32] <adriangrigore> Hi, does anybody have idea what a "*" referer is in an httpd log file?