People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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75 [01:24:23] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Is there a way to intercept a USB device's HID input and replace it with something else?
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84 [01:34:38] <Aurora_v_kosmose> replaced-url
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114 [02:25:49] <mikeymop> hello, is it possible to extract one file from a .deb?
115 [02:26:00] <mikeymop> specifically, I want a pkg-config declaration
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117 [02:28:23] <hassoon> mikeymop: sure, a .deb is after all an archive of files
118 [02:29:35] <Unit193> dpkg-deb just has: -x, --extract archive directory
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120 [02:30:17] <alex11> ar x?
121 [02:30:53] <alex11> apparently that's not per file... hmm
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128 [02:33:17] <themill> dpkg-deb's--fsys-tarfile option
129 [02:34:16] <mikeymop> ok so I was able to extract to a directory
130 [02:34:53] <mikeymop> oh so the stretch version has the .pc file but the buster one doesn't
131 [02:35:01] <mikeymop> is pkg-config not used anymore in the linux community?
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136 [02:42:04] <themill> pkg-config used quite a lot. Which package is this?
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138 [02:42:31] <themill> (some things are moving to cmake recipes but it's not common to remove the pkg-config files)
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144 [02:51:31] <de-facto> need some help figuring out python dependencies
145 [02:51:46] <de-facto> I have a package requiring httplib
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147 [02:52:03] <de-facto> and requests
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150 [02:52:35] <de-facto> installing python3-httplib2 python-httplib2 python-requests does not seem to provide those
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170 [03:06:21] <somiaj> de-facto: is it python2 or python3?
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173 [03:07:28] <somiaj> oh looks like you installed both of them. Are you running this inside a python virtual enviorment?
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176 [03:09:17] <somiaj> de-facto: it appears that httplib and httplib2 are different, and that debian doesn't package httplib
177 [03:10:24] <de-facto> its limnoria (supybot) form debian repos and i try to get sigyn running on debian deps
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179 [03:10:32] <de-facto> would rather want to avoid pip if possible
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181 [03:10:56] <de-facto> it says httplib but as you said it seems there is only httplib2 packaged
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183 [03:11:07] <somiaj> so it is a package from the debian repo not being able to find its dependencies. What exact package and what repo?
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186 [03:14:54] <de-facto> limnoria package works, sigyn plugin is on github (not debian package)
187 [03:15:17] <de-facto> that sigyn impors httplib
188 [03:15:28] <de-facto> *imports
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191 [03:15:55] <de-facto> so i need a Debian package to provide httplib
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197 [03:17:42] <somiaj> no debian package provides that, you can ould make your own
198 [03:17:54] <somiaj> but it appears debian only ships httplib2
199 [03:17:57] <somiaj> not httplib
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204 [03:18:34] <de-facto> yeah ok
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223 [03:19:24] <somiaj> you could also use python's virtualenv and make your own python virtual enviroment you could safely install stuff in independent of your system with pip
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241 [03:28:26] <themill> de-facto: I can't see sigyn importing httplib btw
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244 [03:29:20] <themill> it uses http.client which is in stdlib
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246 [03:29:22] <de-facto> themill, replaced-url
247 [03:29:36] <de-facto> yeah thats master
248 [03:29:40] <de-facto> it requires requests
249 [03:29:53] <themill> python3-requests is a package
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251 [03:30:48] <themill> (I'd be using master not a 2½ year old release for this code)
252 [03:31:28] <de-facto> yes let me try master
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255 [03:32:37] <de-facto> hmm ok almost all deps except ftfy
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259 [03:33:52] <de-facto> replaced-url
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308 [04:31:27] <de-facto> this here is damn cool, could build a deb from pipy pretty easy with it replaced-url
309 [04:32:21] <de-facto> so ftfy packaged and installed let me load latest sigyn master since deps are fully satisfied with Debian Buster pkgs
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429 [07:26:39] <kkopenfree> ls
430 [07:26:45] <kkopenfree> lsblk
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432 [07:27:47] <kkopenfree> nano /etc/nginx/nginx.config
433 [07:28:14] <gry> error: this is irc and not a terminal, sorry
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435 [07:29:45] <kkopenfree> OK, I clicked the wrong window
436 [07:29:52] <gry> ok
437 [07:30:02] <na> Aside from installing the required packages, is there any special wrangling that needs to be done for 32-bit wine to find 32-bit libGL on a 64-bit system?
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441 [07:33:16] <na> Or, uh, any reason why the files listed by dpkg -L for a package I've got installed might be missing?
442 [07:33:40] <somiaj> na: what video driver are you using?
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444 [07:34:51] <na> Planning on using the default intel ones, but it looks like my issue is actually user error. dpkg -L has told me why the file is missing, it got diverted :/
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465 [07:59:52] <kkopenfree> ls
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467 [08:01:23] <alex11> rm /home/kkopenfree
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469 [08:04:08] <kkopenfree> chmod +x ./alex11
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471 [08:07:05] <kkopenfree> openjami
472 [08:07:43] <openjami> ?
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477 [08:15:16] <somiaj> kkopenfree: please stop, you keep joining and spitting commands.
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492 [08:41:27] <kkopenfree> gf
493 [08:42:43] <gry> kkopenfree: error: shutting down now
494 [08:43:00] <gry> kkopenfree: just pulling your leg, but I think the request from somiaj above might be reasonable
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539 [08:56:36] <th_> id rather not install 300+ packages just for node, that's npms job
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560 [09:01:40] <nvz> as if the number of packages you have makes any difference at all
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563 [09:02:53] <ksk> also you said, you want to run node :P
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569 [09:08:16] <th_> seems absurd, npm handles all that stuff
570 [09:09:06] <ksk> th_: if you want to run node, there is one sane way, as far as I know it was kinda hidden in the docs...
571 [09:09:15] <ksk> like there is an upstream repo for debian or so, but not easy to find.
572 [09:09:38] <th_> bullseye not supported at nodesource
573 [09:10:02] <Haohmaru> ksk <win98_magnifying_glass.ani>
574 [09:10:38] <ksk> "
575 [09:10:39] <ksk> NodeSource will maintain support for stable, testing and unstable releases of Debian, due to the long release cycle a considerable number of users are running unstable."
576 [09:10:44] <nvz> idk installing node only wants to install 4 packages for me and suggests a fifth, npm
577 [09:11:05] <Mathisen> !v libmysql-java
578 [09:11:07] <ksk> as far as I know node from the debian repos was kind of unusable (last time I tried)
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580 [09:11:12] <Mathisen> .v libmysql-java
581 [09:11:17] <ksk> try , ;)
582 [09:11:22] <Mathisen> ,v libmysql-java
583 [09:11:23] <judd> Package: libmysql-java on amd64 -- jessie: 5.1.42-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.1.49-0+deb8u1; stretch: 5.1.49-0+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 5.1.49-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 5.1.49-0+deb9u1
584 [09:11:33] <Mathisen> :)
585 [09:12:15] <ksk> th_: not the most entperprise thing you can do to run bullseye in the first place, but I would just naivly assume that you can install nodesource packages on it, if they say they support both stable and sid.
586 [09:13:26] <th_> weird, maybe i had old packages? i removed them all, now reinstall it only shows node and npm
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590 [09:15:52] <th_> actually its the npm install that wants to install 300 additional, not node itself
591 [09:17:22] <ksk> ,info npm
592 [09:17:24] <judd> Package npm (web, optional) in buster/amd64: package manager for Node.js. Version: 5.8.0+ds6-4+deb10u1; Size: 993.2k; Installed: 8445k; Homepage: replaced-url
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594 [09:18:09] <ksk> on an ubuntu box over here right now, but seems to me most of the dependencies start with "node-" - so its just the debian way of splitting "everything that is node" into single packages
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596 [09:19:08] <nvz> imagine that.. a package manager written in javascript has a shitload of javascript dependencies
597 [09:19:14] <th_> i think the nodesource repo is just two packages, node and npm, but not working on bullseye for me, i think i had to set to sid before, but it broke after a removal of a python package
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600 [09:19:41] <nvz> so the real issue is you wanna run npm but without all the stuff required to make it work
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602 [09:20:16] <th_> just want a minimal install
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604 [09:20:51] <ksk> you either use the debian packages and get support here. Or use nodesource packages and wont get support ;)
605 [09:21:07] <nvz> for me its 250 package, 10MB download and 50MB disk space
606 [09:21:16] <nvz> so the only real issue is again, a number of packages
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608 [09:21:50] <nvz> I could fit that on my d*** ffs
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610 [09:22:02] <th_> unpacking 300 debs vs. 1 deb?? which one would you prefer?
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612 [09:22:27] <nvz> I'd prefer you have an actual supportable issue :P
613 [09:22:43] <nvz> and if you are running bullseye you go to the appropriate channel
614 [09:22:54] <nvz> and this headache I got go away
615 [09:22:59] <nvz> I can whine too
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618 [09:24:09] <Haohmaru> systemctl headache.service stop
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620 [09:24:40] * nvz goes to find some ibuprophen
621 [09:24:49] <Haohmaru> nvz but u need to be root ;P~
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625 [09:29:06] <nvz> I'm beyond the point I can appreciate the joke.. this migraine is relentless
626 [09:30:18] <Haohmaru> :/
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628 [09:30:53] <th_> its the same 300 across all releases?
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630 [09:31:20] <nvz> I already told you what it shows here on my buster server
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632 [09:31:43] <nvz> its 250 packages, 10MB download, 50MB additional disk space used
633 [09:33:37] <nvz> I got like 1225 packages on here and the only reason I know that is cause I just checked cause your whining is tiring..
634 [09:33:47] <nvz> my server works the same as it did before I counted the packages
635 [09:34:14] <nvz> and my headache is no different
636 [09:34:16] <nvz> :P
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641 [09:35:33] <nvz> if I wanted to run npm, I'd just install it.. 1225, 1575.. doesnt make a damn bit of difference to me
642 [09:36:10] <nvz> the fact of the matter is, I wouldnt have to maintain a single one of them
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644 [09:36:28] <nvz> if you want to, go build your own distro from source
645 [09:36:37] <ksk> good ol' "apt install *"
646 [09:36:44] <nvz> heh
647 [09:37:48] <nvz> I could install another 50MB of packages into a damn ramdisk and not feel it
648 [09:38:09] <th_> i got over 5k packages installed on this system
649 [09:38:24] <th_> at some point i will just start over
650 [09:39:30] <nvz> when you're so fat you can't fit through the door, going on a diet is just silly
651 [09:39:51] <nvz> at that point you don't need a diet, you need a bigger door
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653 [09:41:30] <Haohmaru> or a sub-way exit
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656 [09:43:55] <nvz> I dont even have 5000 packages on this workstation and I got two DEs installed, and countless extra crap
657 [09:44:11] <nvz> I got maybe 3500 or so packages on here
658 [09:44:54] <kats99> I modified an entry in mysql.user table and I cannot login to the db. How do I login?
659 [09:44:55] <nvz> and I got a ton of python crap I install for random crazy ideas I get, and usually install it for both python2 and 3 even though I dont use both
660 [09:44:56] <Haohmaru> 2133 installed here
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662 [09:46:08] <nvz> not to mention I install random crap when people ask questions.. I installed probably a dozen text editors I dont need the other day
663 [09:46:34] <nvz> just cause someone wanted one with a certain feature and I was comparing em
664 [09:47:13] <nvz> I easily got two or more of everything on here
665 [09:47:53] <nvz> and its only a 128GB ssd
666 [09:48:09] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
667 [09:48:19] <nvz> with 7 VMs for each of the Buster DE living on it too
668 [09:48:45] <nvz> occupying about 50GB
669 [09:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1124
670 [09:50:08] <nvz> I think this damn headache might actually be going away now after making me miserable all evening and night.. almost 4am and I might be able to sleep a bit
671 [09:51:02] <nvz> still hurts, but feels like its less intense
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673 [09:51:37] <Haohmaru> when my head hurts, i go to bed
674 [09:51:46] <Haohmaru> doesn't happen often
675 [09:52:00] <nvz> yeah.. tried that hours ago.. and I'm in bed now.. obviously not sleepin :P
676 [09:52:19] <diogenes_> nvz, give up drinking coffee and you'll be fine.
677 [09:52:23] *** Joins: Ycarus (~Ycarus@replaced-ip )
678 [09:52:23] <Haohmaru> don't b computing in bed bruh
679 [09:52:29] <Haohmaru> either sleep or get out of bed
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682 [09:52:46] <nvz> I maybe drank coffee once in my life
683 [09:53:00] <Haohmaru> i drink coffee erry day
684 [09:53:35] <nvz> I prefer milk :P
685 [09:54:20] <genr8_> nvz, if you dont go back to #debian-offtopic ill give you a reason for a bigger headache
686 [09:54:35] * Haohmaru hides
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690 [09:57:55] <dka> What else do I need to configure to wake on lan? Router OK, Host Bios Ok
691 [09:58:12] <dka> I still can't wake on lan my host, and what is the opposite to shutdown a computer with the network ? SOL?
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693 [09:59:24] <ksk> dka: that is something that is not possible..
694 [10:00:22] <th_> i did the binary archive install, v14 running good
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696 [10:00:40] <nvz> ksk: lies
697 [10:00:49] <Johann> dka: if the computer iis up, you can configure a service responsible to shutnig down computer if you need that. Make sure you consider security and authentication properly thtough
698 [10:01:59] <genr8_> for SOL you are SOL. due to the above security implications.
699 [10:02:18] <dka> ok, so SSH shutdown would do it
700 [10:02:22] <dka> I know how to do it
701 [10:02:26] <nvz> dpkg, sol?
702 [10:02:26] <dpkg> somebody said sol was Shit Outta Luck. Sex On Legs. Earth's star, or the note that precedes La, or but really straight out of luck, or a shit beer
703 [10:02:29] <dka> What I don't know is how to WOL my host
704 [10:02:37] <dka> I tried etherwake and wol, both without success
705 [10:02:42] <dka> The router has wake on lan proxy enabled
706 [10:03:27] <nvz> is your host plugged in via ethernet to the same lan?
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710 [10:06:04] <genr8_> never heard of a router WOL proxy. WOL is a layer 2 thing. routers are layer 3. thats just complicating things.
711 [10:06:23] <dka> nvz yes it is
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713 [10:06:36] <dka> genr8_, apparently it's very common
714 [10:06:36] <nvz> yeah in theory you could have a proxy on the same subnet wake it via some other means over a network
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716 [10:06:41] <genr8_> all you need to do is send the wake on lan magic packet to the mac address of the host, and it should turn on.
717 [10:06:51] <dka> A router must be able to route the port 9 magic packet, it has to be implemented
718 [10:06:57] <nvz> provided the nic has a bios
719 [10:07:01] <nvz> and wol enabled
720 [10:07:05] <dka> genr8_, I followed the debian tutorial and I have eth0 with gol
721 [10:07:06] <genr8_> ok so look into the proxy being broken.
722 [10:07:20] <dka> but the wakeonlan $mac does not start anything at all
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725 [10:07:37] <genr8_> maybe your proxy ate it.
726 [10:07:37] <dka> the proxy can't be broken, it's manufactured by good and talented people
727 [10:07:47] <dka> It is known for being working
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729 [10:07:55] <nvz> heh
730 [10:07:58] <genr8_> more likely is you didnt configure it right
731 [10:08:04] <dka> yes that must be it
732 [10:08:06] <th_> does it work for other hosts on the same router or is it all hosts
733 [10:08:09] <dka> it's my first wake on lan of my life
734 [10:08:26] <genr8_> you dont need the router proxy if they're all on the same subnet
735 [10:08:35] <dka> apparently it's required
736 [10:09:00] <nvz> nor do you need any software other than the client to send the packet.. its a hardware feature
737 [10:09:01] <genr8_> required for what
738 [10:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1131
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740 [10:09:06] <nvz> its built into the bios on the nic
741 [10:09:17] <nvz> all you need is the nic's mac address
742 [10:09:27] <dka> What can I show you on the client that would assert WOL being enabled on that host?
743 [10:09:49] <genr8_> uh
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747 [10:11:30] <genr8_> start over. you have 2 computers right ? Client A turns on Computer B
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749 [10:11:53] <dka> yes I do, yes client A does send the magic package
750 [10:11:56] <dka> nothing wol
751 [10:11:59] <genr8_> are they both linux ?
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754 [10:12:07] <dka> debian buster
755 [10:12:32] <genr8_> # ethtool ens3 <-- should report WOL enabled
756 [10:12:34] <dka> This is the tutorial I have followed: replaced-url
757 [10:12:46] <dka> ethtool ens3 from A or from B?
758 [10:12:52] <dka> and ens3 is the interface name of A or B?
759 [10:12:53] <genr8_> B...
760 [10:13:00] <genr8_> B...
761 [10:13:07] <dka> But for waking up B as well ?
762 [10:13:20] <genr8_> well it has to be on to run the command...
763 [10:13:24] <dka> I can't run ethtool from B to wake up B because it's down
764 [10:13:37] <dka> I can't run command on computer that are powered off
765 [10:13:41] <genr8_> you asked what can you run to verify its on.
766 [10:13:43] <genr8_> so turn it on.
767 [10:13:55] <dka> I can try to turn it on from A but not from B
768 [10:14:02] <dka> I am trying to know the proper command
769 [10:14:03] <genr8_> go push the button.
770 [10:14:08] <genr8_> run the command. verify its on.
771 [10:14:18] <dka> ethtool ens3 from A with ens3 being iface of A using mac of B
772 [10:14:24] <dka> Ok
773 [10:14:39] <dka> it's on
774 [10:14:55] * genr8_ starting to have serious doubts about getting involved
775 [10:15:30] <genr8_> the tutorial you linked says all of this.
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777 [10:15:53] <dka> replaced-url
778 [10:15:56] *** Joins: wang2305 (~toiboid@replaced-ip )
779 [10:16:04] <dka> replaced-url
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782 [10:16:30] <dka> As you can see, I have `Wake-on: g` on the second command, meaning the ethernet listen for magic package (WOL)
783 [10:16:39] <genr8_> yes. so youve just verified its on.
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785 [10:16:45] <dka> As stated by the reliable debian doc
786 [10:17:06] <dka> This is done by adding ethernet-wol g to my /etc/networks WOL iface
787 [10:17:36] <genr8_> so now run shutdown -h and sending the magic packet from client A should work.
788 [10:18:06] <genr8_> if it doesnt work, disable the router proxy. because I think youve broken the process by trying to use that when its not needed.
789 [10:18:10] <dka> This prove the mac address replaced-url
790 [10:18:26] <dka> I expected to run `wakeonlan 70:8b:cd:a4:96:ec` from host A to enable host B
791 [10:18:38] <dka> nothing happen, hopefull debian share another command to do that ethwake
792 [10:18:57] <dka> etherwake <mac address>
793 [10:19:24] <dka> sudo etherwake 70:8b:cd:a4:96:ec => SIOCGIFHWADDR on eth0 failed: No such device
794 [10:19:44] <dka> wakeonlan 70:8b:cd:a4:96:ec => Sending magic packet to 255.255.255.255:9 with 70:8b:cd:a4:96:ec => nothing start up when the host B is down
795 [10:20:03] <dka> I believe the etherwake command needs to set the local interface used to send the package so I also did from host A
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797 [10:20:23] <genr8_> if it doesnt work, disable the router proxy. because I think youve broken the process by trying to use that when its not needed.
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802 [10:21:31] <ksk> cut out the router totally for testing, use direct connection between the hosts.
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807 [10:26:09] <genr8_> this is some kind of networking issue at this point. I have a theory. check the ARP table on A, see if B is in it.
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810 [10:28:34] <genr8_> if not, theres some kind of arp/broadcast issue, and the magic packet either got lost/went nowhere, after it left A. and it doesnt even reach B.
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812 [10:30:12] <genr8_> this is a "Contact your Network Administrator" moments. followed by "wait thats me." followed by "i actually have no idea how to set up this network". HALPPPPPPPP #debian
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815 [10:31:34] <jelly> dka, are the ethernet port lights blinking or alight when machine B is powered down?
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817 [10:33:10] <dka> yes they are
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820 [10:35:16] <genr8_> run: "sudo arp -a" on A, and check if B is in it.
821 [10:35:45] <dka> replaced-url
822 [10:35:49] <dka> it does not look to be in it
823 [10:35:57] <dka> what does this command do?
824 [10:36:05] <genr8_> prints the ARP table
825 [10:36:32] <genr8_> the output from B said its IP was 192.168.1.101
826 [10:36:41] <genr8_> that arp output shows no such subnet
827 [10:36:58] <genr8_> thats why its not getting through. theyre NOT on the same subnet.
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830 [10:37:42] <genr8_> If they're not on the same subnet, youve just made the layer 3 router proxy become required. And setting that up is outside my domain of expertise
831 [10:38:35] <genr8_> if its not on the same subnet, the packet has to be specifically routed. and thats a whole other story
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839 [10:46:13] <genr8_> its only simple if its on the same subnet. and its not. now its complicated. contact the good and talented people who make the WOL router proxy software. ask them how to set that up.
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844 [10:48:10] <dka> genr8_, I have installed now both host on the same subnet
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846 [10:51:04] <genr8_> then it should go back to being simple
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854 [10:54:03] <genr8_> dka, I have additional helpful info. I found out with "etherwake" command you HAVE to use the "-i enp2s0" parameter to specify the interface.
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858 [10:58:42] <genr8_> maybe you wanna read "man wakeonlan" also. You can send the packet to a different broadcast address (either a different subnet that the router knows how to route to, or the router directly) $ wakeonlan -i 192.168.1.255 01:02:03:04:05:06
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861 [10:59:29] <genr8_> in this case for "wakeonlan" command , "-i" = IP address. for "etherwake", "-i" = interface.
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868 [11:05:21] <dka> I am trying to send with ethtool
869 [11:05:31] <dka> and I use -i eth0 which is the 192.168.1.0 subnet
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871 [11:06:09] <dka> Oh
872 [11:06:13] <genr8_> i thought debian stopped using eth0 as a name.
873 [11:06:26] <dka> the machine that needs to trigger the WOL is a Synology NAS
874 [11:06:35] <dka> I am connected to it in SSH and it seems that there is no etherwake nor wakeonlan installed
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877 [11:07:17] <genr8_> what do you mean trigger. you mean you're trying to Wake the NAS ?
878 [11:07:18] *** Quits: mirrorbird (~psutcliff@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
879 [11:07:38] <dka> wake on lan work locally on the same subnet now
880 [11:07:48] <dka> but I wanted to start up the computer B from outside
881 [11:08:04] <dka> Using any WIFI with internet, I mean distant start up, not required to be in the same LAN
882 [11:08:35] <genr8_> well at least the simple case works. but now youve complicated things further by wanting it from outside.
883 [11:08:57] <dka> genr8_, by trigger I mean, when my NAS start, it should also try to start HOST B, when the NAS stop, it should also try to shutdown HOST B, I already did that one using an ssh command, but I can't start up because wakeonlan and etherwake are not installed on the NAS
884 [11:09:19] <dka> yes I need to be able, in case of hard failure scenario to be able to try to start up
885 [11:09:29] <genr8_> i advise you to SSH into the network, and wake it locally.
886 [11:09:38] <genr8_> otherwise take up WOL support with synology
887 [11:10:15] <genr8_> theres a chance you can put the "wakeonlan" script on the synology, if it has Perl installed. its just a perl script that opens sockets
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889 [11:10:53] <dka> I run a bash script to shutdown with ssh from the NAS, using a trigger script
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892 [11:11:40] <dka> I want 1) to create a trigger script to WOL, when it start ip, 2) to trigger a start up WOL from outside manually , also there's no other HOST than the nas where I can ssh into , so it still must have etherwake or wakeonlan installed
893 [11:11:43] *** Parts: Stoiss (Stoiss@replaced-ip ) ()
894 [11:12:15] <genr8_> investigate elsewhere how to get WOL program installed on the synology.
895 [11:12:23] <genr8_> its not debian support anymore
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898 [11:13:19] <dka> I think I got it data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAABJoAAAJ8CAYAAAC2pMsjAAAgAElEQVR4nOy9eXwU54Hn3fvO7uy7+8lsZud9Nxkndi4ndkwwNvjcmdnJZGZ23uwktklwbMwNJpnER8zEJ2OH8YG5DAKDuMzhC2MbsHWAOQRGSEggJMQhJHTfal2t1n1fv/ePvursqmrV0d36fT+f7wf6qaqnnqo+VP3r53nKVfq5C+d3u3Dlg6/hD8tfo5RSSimllFJKKaU0Il2VKb6g6fwel+ONoZRSSimllFJKKaWxq6sq1YWC/S6kbXKhsq6JUkoppZRSSimllNKIdFUkuXDtExey3nGhur6ZUkoppZRSSimllNKIdO048Atc+diF83tdqGlooZRSSimllFJKKaU0Il03vd+IH+85jO3
899 [11:13:20] <dka> v3IdadyullFJKKaWUUkoppRHpuum9enxzZxm+sfkK6hpbKaWUUkoppZRSSimNSNeNe2vxzR0l+Obb+ahv8lBKKaWUUkoppZRSGpGuG/fU4JvbinBDQi4amtsMufLLOvz6bI9+T/fg10e60Nndo2l1TZ3h9lBKKaWUUkoppZRS53TduLsa39xWiBs25MDd0mbIeYdqMe9ziUl1PgP/Dy6rw7yPqjFvSykuldXq0mh7KKWUUkoppZRSSqlzum7cXYVvJF7DDevPo7HFa8h5nwdCpbpQwJRUh3nJdfJlyXWY93EN5m0pxeWyOl0abQ+llFJKKaWUUkopdU7XjbsqcWNiAb67MRtNre2GnPeZP0T6zB8ofV6HeUn1Pj+rC/0bKP+4BvM2l+FyWR0yLxYgYes7SNi6C2vf3oZnLrnxxNUWPHm1BRmFlbhUVme4PZRSS
900 [11:13:20] <dka> imllFJKKaXUOV13f1KK/7kvH/fvOoNmT4ch5yfXh/zC7fs3pcFn4P+B5SkNmP9JLeYnluNKeR0uFlXgWHoWjp85h+QT6Xg1qxrPp1fi5axaZBZW4nJZneH2UEoppZRSSimllFLndP3482L89UcXcf+uM2hp6zDk/KQ6zD/ehPmZbZifUo/5X7ZifrbXZ5bg3ywv5qc1Y/4nNZifWIarFXUiL5ZU48v86/g88xLS8oqQe70KV8rrDLeHUkoppZROXqvrm5By/AxSjp9BdX2T4+2Jt/ZSSimlenT97We+oOm+XWfQ6u005IKUeiw41YIFRxuxILXB9zi1AQsON2BBar3vX2HZgVos2FqBgsp6ZOVfw9q3t2Ltpq14dfV6LLjeiwUlQ1hQPIj0wkpcrag33B5KKaWUUjpxs3KvIPXEGZFZuVcs249Zddc0NAfbW9P
901 [11:13:25] <dka> QrLiO9LgCFpfX2H6e9bSXUkopjTVdf/tZMf7K36PJ095lyAWH3XKPNPoM/F9YfrAeC3ZUorCqAZdLq/Fl1gWkn8vD0fRsJGRcx7+nFWDtmWLkFNfgWmWD4fZQSimllNLIrXW3BIOPS9dKguWXrpUg9cQZlFTUmro/YdBkdvtr3S2K60iPT7iN2cdnRnsppZTSWNP1vwQ9mto6ug25INUfIqUKDARNgf8Lyw82YMH2KhRVu0UWVNQjq6AcJ3KLkHnFN1l4UZXbcHsopZRSSmnknsy8gNS0DGTnXZUtK6msRUllrWzdgCczL4jWD5SXVNaK1gvUkZ13VVQeqKOusVW2rbDucPsVblvX2Kp4jIHll66Vqh63dB8BjRxfwEvXSlXr0dNeSimlNNZ0/S9/j6b7dp2Bt7PbkAuPNGLhF01YeKoVC0+2+B4fbfIZ+H9gn
902 [11:13:32] <dka> aNNWPhZAxa+U43rNY04V5KF/S2/w/6W32Ff6Qt4fe0mvPHW21iTkIhLxRUormk03B5KKaWUUhqZ9U2tOJyWgcNpGSitrA277qmzF3A4LQOXC0vh7ezG5cJSHE7LwKmzF4LrBOo6nJahuk523lUc9gc8Su0IGNhGa7/CbeubWhXbHlgeqEOpXqmRHp+03tLKWtE2etpLKaWUxpqum+79FW66+5e4ccaDaO/sMeTCL5qw8HwHFma3+/5/th0Lczt95gj+zenEwvQ2LPzcjYW7alBS24gLxdewL/tt7M1YjwPZ7+GLLzNx6mwOTp3NQXF1A0rrmgy3h1JKKaWURmZDkycYepRV1qmuV1ZZF1yvockTLJduK30s3C6wzTl/0HQu76piO4T169mv2rZCA8uvFJaFrTfQNqlqxys9PrW2GG0vpZRSGmu6pv7yDUyduQI
903 [11:13:37] <dka> /enA5Orp6DbnoeAsWnWjBomMtvv8HHgfKhP+eaMGilCYs2luL0romFFU14EJRJbIKypBbWIaSmkaU1zeLNNoeSimllFIame7mNhxJy8SRtEyUV9WrrnelqDy4nrA8UHalqFz0OFBXeVW9bLvzFwtwJC0T5y8WKLbD3dxmaL9q2yqtL1VpnUC7lNqudXzCx0qWV9Xrai+llFIaa7ruXbwD0+cmYNrDb6Kzu9eQwWBJ+G+aX+mytBYsSm3ConfrUNnQgor6ZpTVNeF6ZS3qW71wt3pRWl2PyoaWoEbbQymllFJKI/fLrFwcOZmJ8/kFsmUV1fVBj5zMxJGTmWhsaQsuD5RVVNcrPhZuF9jmfH6BbH+NLW2K9evZr9q2QgPLr14vV1yu1E6lMq3j09MWPetQSimlsabr3sU7MGPuRkydtRJdPX2GXHSiFYvSWn3/B
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905 [11:13:46] <genr8_> Somehow I dont think thats it :/
906 [11:16:02] <Haohmaru> bruh..
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909 [11:18:05] <epsilon> someone motivated to open that img and tell what's inside?
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911 [11:18:56] <Haohmaru> i bet it's incomplete
912 [11:19:25] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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914 [11:20:11] <alex11> tl;dr
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918 [11:23:20] <th_> i used wol once in my life, just to test it, then disabled it
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926 [11:26:57] <dka> 6H8LaNyCUuyOaxqZmse69IXwx1AVhXYdufDHUhfsahzA6xTc7CQYUTSRoUDQRQggh+UG+fy9SNBHiHoJwj3ui6bOBaZzz6x5DwaSMc37dg88Gph1vHyFeQ9FEggZFEyGEEJIf5Pv3IkUTIe4hCOs+gPCLNyH87BVHKzraN4W/2dytKZPOfLgTr382jskZYFvbKD53v3z932zuxtG+KUfbSIjXUDSRoEHRRAghhOQH+f69SNFE/v/27j8+qvu+8/3p5pH2pt1u9nH37o/HzW53sZO0a35pBIakcXf3Nrtp+8Btsc0vzWAJbLbN2nWWprHrbmLiGIMx1wy/BEj42msbW45NbMvg2AnGNshGCGRRMAJjGQsJECAJEEhCv6X3/WM0o/k9c0Zzzsw5ej0fj8+jjTRzzhmp5IxePec7sI9hPF4j45H3LV2jqXdwRFNTX
927 [11:26:58] <dka> Mn0o/euRzznzteuxjxm6tNt3EYHVyM0WWf/4fqsDLKL0AQAgDM4/bxIaALsYxirDslY8YGMf7DuiqYnqrtS3h734PuRoWlRZUfcx62u7rLsOIFcIzRZZ//henV2do5rCE3ZR2gCAMAZnH5eJDQB9jGMnxyU8dB7MpbvsmQHV3qG9dV1F1OGpt996qL2nulTz+CInv+kR19ek/gWuys9Vn4aXYt2PrxMc72B8ddauCsgCqHJOtmIRISm7CM0AQDgDE4/LxKaAPsY/+aW7+pf/f5/1r/4+rct2UHpxzdML/6dako/vpF0n+crV4RC0VzvMi2vbEn7eM9XrtDch3fp/HhfeJLjmetdZs0+SuuyuEXkAqHJOoSm/ERoAgDAGZx+XnRNaGrZpeXeFdqZ/p+41sq340mHHcds1T4c8vM2Jv/FI/qDP31IX//u31iygz/
928 [11:26:59] <dka> fGbvWUvT8zv97UTOebdfiXR167KMu3fbC5aSPv/3VK6l3nOEvoKbUXJhKrk7+BFEpu/shNLkFock6hKb8FApN597UD4p+opfPEJoAAMhHTj8v2h6aWnZpefTFBtkIBPkWGswcTzaOPV+2kat95NvvPwHDs8iv6fPWaOrcRy3Zwb8rTfxJc98sa9OZa0OK/qc883+3Jw1N/660NfWO4/wCakqXaW5pXeB/xrmyKOLrUd/L5CqpmtL0r1yK3Le54457xVRYdEq17eWVLWHbyP//o3UzQpN1CE35idAEAIAzOP28mJvQFPm3VeBvrnLVZHm7OUVosncf+fb7T8AoXFyqgoXrNO2uVZbs4DefTLw+07/acEm3bG/TS/U9ocef7xzSb6S4Auo3n7yYeseJQlPEukuB9ZjCo1Ew6oSL/S+EwJVKyWNTOo9JsM/a8oj9p
929 [11:27:00] <dka> XPcia5oSnfb2by6CpkjNFmH0JRFwf9+rSwfDdTB/06JXOMuNrTH+f7IiEZGzuvVv79Xf1l0r/5i0VL9+YIlmrO8QkcITQAA5A2nnxfzITQFvjb2t1jsBQPxHh91sUP0dkcfE/fvuYTHMPq1mPd0y9IKYTEXaITtI/FrinofGPZeMeXPYezgE24j9fvQZD+XFM+N93tIddxJglC8v90j73hKcjzxfn+Jfr85ZMwsLpPHu0HT56+xZAe/+1TqhcA/aO4PPX5rXeo1ncYVmuJFpOirmiIeEwhGMYuCRwWb+PtPYzHxuP+HEPg/rOBz0znuuKEpzW0TmfIHock6hKYsCp5s45wgY66mTOM/c0UTAAD5z+nnxXwITamWO4m8wCH679A6+Uvrorab4G/VJMcQGyrivD9LEmli1jROETYiXlOaESTplV8JtpHqfWeybSR
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932 [11:27:42] <ksk> dafuq. stop that please.
933 [11:27:49] <th_> png is only good for icons
934 [11:28:10] <alex11> this is irc, we do not understand your graphical stuff
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954 [11:38:57] <oxek> Which one do I put in my ~/.xsession to have xfce4 as the default session: startxfce4 or xfce4-session?
955 [11:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1135
956 [11:39:38] <genr8_> i dont think thats how it works
957 [11:40:01] <Unit193> startxfce4 in ~/.xinitrc perhaps? :)
958 [11:40:23] <alex11> i think xfce4 uses startxfce4, but yeah, probably .xinitrc, different unixes handle it differently
959 [11:40:41] <Unit193> I have '. /etc/X11/Xsession' right before it, though.
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961 [11:41:46] <oxek> somehow, using ~/.xsession works
962 [11:42:31] <somiaj> dka: please stop pasting data into the channel
963 [11:42:43] <oxek> if that file does not exist, gnome3 starts. If it exists and contains startxfce4 or xfce4-session, then xfce starts
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965 [11:42:51] <somiaj> dka: use a pastebin if you need to share such things
966 [11:43:11] <genr8_> on my system, /etc/X11/Xsession is a script that sources /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ and then 55xfce4-session is in that dir, which takes /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager which points to /usr/bin/startxfce4
967 [11:43:15] <oxek> I don't want to use 'update-alternatives --config x-session-manager' because that would change it for all users
968 [11:43:42] <oxek> genr8_: that looks like I should be using startxfce4 instead of xfce4-session then
969 [11:44:12] <alex11> IIRC debian is special vs other distros in how it handles .xsession vs .xinitrc
970 [11:44:17] <alex11> i don't remember the differences, though
971 [11:44:24] <genr8_> perhaps. the script seems to have provisions for both, in the next line that adds /usr/share/xfce4 to the $XDG_DATA_DIRS variable
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975 [11:45:48] <jelly> dka, WoL only works on the same network segment, so yeah you need to do it from a running machine residing on the same network
976 [11:46:26] <jelly> avoid pasting pictures into irc tho :-)
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979 [11:47:22] <oxek> my guess is that debian executes /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager
980 [11:47:49] <oxek> and in my case /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager points to startxfce4, so that's what I should be using
981 [11:48:08] <oxek> the manpages of startxfce4 and xfce4-session are not helpful
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987 [11:50:22] <genr8_> i would pick one, probably startxfce4, and write down what you did. if something goes wrong, you dont wanna forget what custom config you did
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989 [11:50:46] <alex11> or just use a display manager like sane people :P
990 [11:51:01] <genr8_> that would make too much sense
991 [11:51:02] <oxek> alex11: I am using a display manager
992 [11:51:08] <oxek> and it starts gnome by default
993 [11:51:10] <oxek> which I don't want
994 [11:52:04] <oxek> hence using ~/.xsession, which works, but I don't know the syntax or the proper command to run in it, hence testing startxfce4 and xfce4-session and wondering which is better
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999 [11:56:31] <dka> sorry aboutthis
1000 [11:56:47] <dka> where can I add curl (when network is ready) command at debian buster boot ?
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1002 [11:57:36] <genr8_> systemD
1003 [11:58:23] <dka> something like /etc/rc.oocal
1004 [11:58:35] <dka> there's no hook possible ?
1005 [11:59:00] <genr8_> rc.d init scripts were too simple for debian, they picked systemD complex behemoth system instead.
1006 [11:59:06] <ksk> dka: systemd is the 2020 way of doing such things.
1007 [11:59:10] <genr8_> gl with that...
1008 [11:59:33] <jelly> dka, how do you bring network up?
1009 [11:59:43] <dka> with /etc/networks
1010 [12:00:01] <jelly> dka, then just add a post-up line calling your command in the relevant stanza
1011 [12:00:28] <genr8_> yes that sounds like a good idea. a post-up script
1012 [12:00:39] <dka> ok
1013 [12:00:40] <jelly> post-up curl replaced-url
1014 [12:01:03] <jelly> doesn't have to be a script.
1015 [12:01:43] <dka> can I have two post up?
1016 [12:01:47] <dka> I already use one for wol
1017 [12:01:49] <jelly> yes
1018 [12:02:13] <dka> can I use multiline with backslash?
1019 [12:02:27] <jelly> no idea
1020 [12:02:31] <jelly> !interfaces
1021 [12:02:31] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. replaced-url
1022 [12:03:14] <jelly> use a script if needed; you can however use shell syntax, as it seems ifupdown calls the command with sh -c '...'
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1024 [12:04:33] <dka> I did added a sh script in post up
1025 [12:04:37] <dka> how can I test it work?
1026 [12:04:47] <dka> I presume reboot
1027 [12:04:53] <jelly> ifdown BLAH; ifup BLAH
1028 [12:05:17] <jelly> if you're connected remotely watch out so you don't accidentally cut off your access
1029 [12:05:27] <dka> excellent
1030 [12:05:33] <dka> thank you so much
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1032 [12:05:55] <dka> Now I can sleep on my two ears
1033 [12:05:55] <jelly> you're welcome!
1034 [12:05:58] <ksk> protip: putin "your command || true" so e/n/i execution does not stop as a whole if your command is faulty.
1035 [12:06:10] <dka> No risk of fire or down service
1036 [12:07:16] <jelly> ksk, thanks, that's an explanation for || /bin/true that is more easy to understand
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1053 [12:29:22] <wwilliam> Why would scp only work with ip and not hostname? like scp user@ip:/some/file .
1054 [12:29:44] *** Parts: Gekko (~gekko@replaced-ip ) ()
1055 [12:29:45] <Haohmaru> huh, are you sure it doesn't wurk?
1056 [12:29:53] <wwilliam> No
1057 [12:30:02] <Haohmaru> oh wait, "scp" .. i haven't used that
1058 [12:30:38] <Haohmaru> i assume it's a commandline tool
1059 [12:31:18] <H4ndy> pretty sure scp works with hostnames
1060 [12:31:24] <wwilliam> Yes to copy files.....
1061 [12:31:24] <H4ndy> does the hostname resolve properly?
1062 [12:31:33] <Haohmaru> i'd be surprised if it doesn't
1063 [12:31:39] <wwilliam> if I do ssh hosname
1064 [12:31:43] <wwilliam> no problem
1065 [12:31:48] <wwilliam> is only with scp
1066 [12:32:00] <Haohmaru> what does scp say?
1067 [12:32:08] <genr8_> run the host command on the hostname
1068 [12:32:10] <wwilliam> file doesn exist
1069 [12:32:59] <wwilliam> hostname gives me the name i use to login using ssh
1070 [12:33:15] <genr8_> then it should work
1071 [12:33:26] <wwilliam> but if i want to scp from there using hostname with scp dont work only works with ip
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1074 [12:36:19] <bezaban> are you using the fqnd?
1075 [12:36:23] <ratrace> didn't we have an exactly the same question here few months ago? turned out the user was ssh-ing to the wrong machine
1076 [12:36:23] <bezaban> fqdn*
1077 [12:36:36] <bezaban> or have anything in ~/.ssh/config
1078 [12:36:57] <genr8_> turned out the user was confused is the answer to nearly everything
1079 [12:37:08] <wwilliam> Jesus
1080 [12:37:11] <wwilliam> sorry
1081 [12:37:16] <wwilliam> wrong hostname
1082 [12:37:19] <Haohmaru> comput0rz are confusing
1083 [12:37:27] <wwilliam> of course the file is not going to be found
1084 [12:37:30] <bezaban> we can solve that with a couple more layers of abstractions
1085 [12:37:30] <wwilliam> Thank you all
1086 [12:37:33] <bezaban> :D
1087 [12:37:41] <wwilliam> sorry to waste your time.
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1089 [12:38:04] <ratrace> I'm also willing to bet it was the same user ... :)
1090 [12:38:20] <ratrace> wishIhadlogs...
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1092 [12:38:41] <wwilliam> No I never brought that question here
1093 [12:38:43] * Haohmaru gives ratrace a bag of logarithms
1094 [12:38:45] <another> please put the time in the correct recycling bin
1095 [12:39:34] <ratrace> wwilliam: btw, start getting used to rsync or something else, scp is not recommended to use by authors themselves, the protocol is icky
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1098 [12:40:08] <ratrace> Haohmaru: so exponential of you!
1099 [12:40:09] <H4ndy> I use rsync mostly for copying files on the local machine :D
1100 [12:40:12] <wwilliam> ratrace: OK
1101 [12:40:24] <wwilliam> but it was just one file.
1102 [12:40:25] <Haohmaru> ur welcome
1103 [12:40:39] <ratrace> you can rsync one file just fine oto
1104 [12:40:40] <ratrace> *too
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1106 [12:40:45] <wwilliam> OK.
1107 [12:41:19] <ratrace> rsync -a /local/path/to/file/note/no/trailing/slash remoteside:/path/to/wherever/
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1109 [12:41:54] <genr8_> what do you mean the protocol, its using SSH as the protocol
1110 [12:42:06] <ratrace> genr8_: no, scp is a protocol in itself
1111 [12:42:08] <wwilliam> ratrace: thank you.
1112 [12:42:16] <genr8_> i dont think it is...
1113 [12:42:52] <ratrace> replaced-url
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1116 [12:43:24] <genr8_> interesting. they do call it a protocol
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1118 [12:43:33] <ratrace> "The scp protocol is outdated, inflexible and not readily fixed. We recommend the use of more modern protocols like sftp and rsync for file transfer instead."
1119 [12:45:13] <ratrace> sure its based on ssh connections, but it's a proto in itself, ie. it's not like cat file | ssh "cat > file"
1120 [12:45:41] <genr8_> well mind blown
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1122 [12:46:36] <hwm4rgs> the SSH protocol can do tons of nifty things. one of my workplaces has built several protocols on top of it.
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1124 [12:47:09] <genr8_> so its a protocol on a protocol
1125 [12:47:16] <hwm4rgs> sure, most protocols are.
1126 [12:48:51] <genr8_> what I dont get is why they didnt just make SSH fixed, and turn SCP into a program
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1128 [12:51:20] <genr8_> why would you wanna deprecate SCP when: Note that OpenSSH's sftp and sftp-server implement revision 3 of the SSH filexfer protocol described in: replaced-url
1129 [12:51:42] <genr8_> just turn SCP into a frontend to that... why does FTP have to get involved.
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1131 [12:52:04] <hwm4rgs> sftp isn't related to "the" FTP
1132 [12:52:09] <another> whose talking about FTP?
1133 [12:52:15] <hwm4rgs> that's called ftps :D
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1135 [12:53:13] <hwm4rgs> (which is just good ol' FTP wrapped in TLS or with the use of STARTTLS á la SMTP/IMAP)
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1137 [12:53:42] <ratrace> indeed. and then note that rsync working over ssh is not unlike scp working over ssh, or sftp working over ssh, it's just that scp and sftp are tools grown within the same, OpenSSH project
1138 [12:54:17] <another> hwm4rgs: bandaid on a shitty protocol
1139 [12:54:39] <hwm4rgs> sure, but if the bandaid solves a problem in a wide deployment it's a whole lot better than no bandaid
1140 [12:54:53] <another> sure
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1143 [12:57:41] <hwm4rgs> of course this shouldn't be confused with Simple File Transfer Protocol, SFTP, which is somewhere between TFTP and FTP in complexity/features, but still not "secure".
1144 [12:58:08] <Mava42> oh, TFTP <3
1145 [12:58:23] <hwm4rgs> That's a first to me.
1146 [12:58:28] <hwm4rgs> Never seen anyone like TFTP.
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1151 [13:01:26] <genr8_> I still wouldnt call it a protocol. just looks like a shitty program replaced-url
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1156 [13:03:03] <Mava42> hmm, scp a protocol? hardly..
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1160 [13:05:45] <genr8_> maybe we need to go back in history. wikipedia: "The SCP is a network protocol, based on the BSD RCP protocol"
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1163 [13:06:40] <genr8_> scp.c: "scp - secure remote copy. This is basically patched BSD rcp which uses ssh to do the data transfer (instead of using rcmd)."
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1166 [13:07:19] <Mava42> genr8_: this is in fact interesting academic question already
1167 [13:07:42] <genr8_> yes I had to go down the rabbithole :p
1168 [13:08:45] <jelly> scp is a crazy little hack that depends a lot on the shell, avoid using it
1169 [13:08:51] <jelly> sftp is sane.
1170 [13:09:11] <Mava42> is scp broken?
1171 [13:09:31] <another> it had a couple CVE's in the past
1172 [13:09:42] <another> not sure if they are fixed
1173 [13:09:49] <jelly> it's broken by design, and there were some hacks added to it to enhance security (but reduce usefulness)
1174 [13:09:52] <genr8_> something about wildcard expansion between remote / local not matching up
1175 [13:10:08] <another> AFAIK a malicious server can do malicious things
1176 [13:10:27] <jelly> wildcard expansion to something that client did not expect was USEFUL
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1179 [13:11:10] <jelly> eg. I would routinely pass zsh extended glob to the other side to copy only latest files, now that's broken
1180 [13:11:27] <jelly> scp -p remote:'*(.m-1)' .
1181 [13:12:14] <jelly> my login shell on the remote end would expand *(.m-1) to "only regular files, less than one day old"
1182 [13:12:51] *** Parts: virusuy (~virusuy@replaced-ip##) ("Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
1183 [13:12:52] <genr8_> probably cause ZSH isnt POSIX compatible by default
1184 [13:13:07] <jelly> posix compat is crap
1185 [13:13:37] <genr8_> well it standardized things to work, and kinda makes sense if you're dealing with a non-protocol protocol like scp
1186 [13:13:39] <jelly> a posix shell does very little and isn't really useful for interactive use
1187 [13:14:09] <genr8_> I cant blame scp for not accepting weird shell globs
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1189 [13:15:14] <jelly> I can blame openssh authors for fixing something that was _known_ to be broken in the first place. They should have disabled scp by default (which, again, is hard to do because it works on top of login shell)
1190 [13:15:27] <jelly> let the shell deal with globs
1191 [13:15:56] <jelly> so... use sftp
1192 [13:15:59] <tramplefoot> zmodem is as secure as telnet, right?
1193 [13:16:29] <jelly> tramplefoot, zmodem works on an already established serial (-like) line
1194 [13:16:47] <another> does the sftp command support destination path?
1195 [13:16:58] <jelly> !tias
1196 [13:16:58] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
1197 [13:17:32] <tramplefoot> sshfs is better if you are planning to constantly transfer files between your SSH server and your local machine
1198 [13:17:35] <jelly> or use a nicer sftp client like lftp, or sshfs
1199 [13:17:44] <jelly> sshfs is a sftp client.
1200 [13:17:59] <rain1> sftp is so nice
1201 [13:18:08] <rain1> i use that for copying from my phone to computer
1202 [13:18:18] <tramplefoot> lftp++
1203 [13:18:22] <jelly> rsync is smarter than sftp and can significantly reduce transfer size
1204 [13:18:49] <jelly> (if you're syncing something that already partially exists on dest)
1205 [13:18:52] <genr8_> rsync has version mismatch issues
1206 [13:19:01] <another> uuh, lftp supports sftp? nice :)
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1208 [13:19:26] <another> rsync needs to be installed on both sides to be used
1209 [13:19:42] <genr8_> right, preferably the same version. if not, theres issues.
1210 [13:20:59] <ratrace> another: kinda like openssh itself? ;)
1211 [13:21:13] <genr8_> worse
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1213 [13:21:25] <genr8_> the backwards compatibility is not adequate.
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1216 [13:23:57] <genr8_> since rsync comes from Samba, which is equally annoying
1217 [13:26:25] *** Quits: kkopenfree (~kkopenfre@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1218 [13:28:11] <genr8_> another philosophical question: If a protocol doesnt have an IETF document, is it really a protocol ?
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1220 [13:28:45] <jelly> rsync has the same author as samba initially, and isn't really _that_ problematic with different versions
1221 [13:29:11] <jelly> depends on what you do with it
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1223 [13:29:18] <ratrace> I don't recall noticing any backwards incompatibility issues , ever
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1225 [13:30:51] <ZeNEX> Hello, using Debian 10. I'm trying to map the command "ip route add 192.168.110.0/24 dev ens192" to a permanent route in /etc/network/interfaces but it seems it doesn't work. How is that command translated into that configuration file? Any help appreciated, thanks.
1226 [13:31:00] <jelly> do remember occasional issues, between horribly old servers (think RHEL4) and newer clients
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1228 [13:31:21] <jelly> ratrace, but that's with rsync native proto, not over ssh
1229 [13:31:47] <jelly> ZeNEX, show your current interfaces file
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1231 [13:32:16] <another> you can use `up ip route...`
1232 [13:32:27] <jelly> ZeNEX, typically you just add a command into an "up" or "post-up" line in the stanza for iface ens192 ...
1233 [13:32:45] <jelly> there's no built-in support to add routes nicely, like on redhat-based systems
1234 [13:32:56] <ZeNEX> This is my current config file: replaced-url
1235 [13:33:09] <ratrace> jelly: oh yeah, that kinda rings a bell, long, long time ago. but over ssh I don't recall any, if src and dst machines had different rsync versions
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1238 [13:34:05] <jelly> ZeNEX, just add a line 18 saying " up ip r add 192.168.110.0/24 dev ens192" and possibly another saying " down ip r del 192.168.110.0/24 dev ens192 || true"
1239 [13:34:22] <jelly> sprinkle with || true suffixes liberally
1240 [13:34:33] <ratrace> jelly: what's the difference between up and post-up ?
1241 [13:34:39] <jelly> post-
1242 [13:34:51] * jelly hides
1243 [13:34:52] <ratrace> <nicholas-cage-you-dont-say.jpg>
1244 [13:35:13] <jelly> fiik
1245 [13:35:32] <jelly> if you have both, post-up run after up!
1246 [13:35:47] <genr8_> i believe "post-up" is guaranteed to be up, "up" means its in the process of coming up
1247 [13:35:50] <jelly> presumably after the link is up, too
1248 [13:35:51] <ratrace> jelly: ah, makes sense
1249 [13:36:22] <jelly> s/up/configured/; it can take time for a link to actually come up
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1251 [13:36:56] <ZeNEX> jelly, that did the trick, thanks! :)
1252 [13:37:05] <jelly> genr8_, but a failure in post-up still makes ifupdown think the iface isn't configured properly
1253 [13:37:06] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip )
1254 [13:37:18] <ratrace> genr8_: I was thinking the same, like a dependency issue... I really have to switch over to networkd asap.
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1256 [13:37:18] <genr8_> oh
1257 [13:37:30] <jelly> ZeNEX, verify that "ifdown ens192" also does the thing
1258 [13:38:07] <ZeNEX> What would happen if it doesn't?
1259 [13:38:09] * jelly not responsible for cutting ZeNEX' access off
1260 [13:38:19] <jelly> the route might stay up?
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1262 [13:39:33] <another> routes referencing a device get delete with the device
1263 [13:39:53] <jelly> ZeNEX, I'm not sure how you plan for that route to work, unless you either specify a gateway, or have an extra IP address for that segment on the same interface
1264 [13:39:55] <another> not perfectly sure if that also applies to a device going down
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1267 [13:40:51] <ZeNEX> jelly, I just know it now connects to that subnet and everything works OK. If it works, it´s OK right? or could I be setting myself up for a shotgun to the feet?
1268 [13:41:05] <jelly> ZeNEX, eh, if it works it works?
1269 [13:41:31] <jelly> doesn't matter that some person on irc doesn't know HOW it works
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1271 [13:42:43] *** Quits: Thominus (~Thominus@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1272 [13:43:10] <genr8_> works is relative
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1274 [13:44:19] <ratrace> much confuse.... there's no if-post-up.d/ directory
1275 [13:45:07] <ratrace> there's pre-up, up, down and post-down, but in the stanzas one can additionally use post-up and pre-down hooks
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1277 [13:45:44] *** Joins: JordiGH (jordi@replaced-ip )
1278 [13:46:20] <ZeNEX> I only learn by peeing on electric fences so I'll report back.
1279 [13:46:34] *** Joins: Dani (~dani@replaced-ip )
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1281 [13:48:28] <genr8_> man 5 interfaces: "Please note that as post-up and pre-down are aliases, no files in the corresponding directories are processed. Please use if-up.d and if-down.d directories instead."
1282 [13:48:39] *** Joins: coot (~coot@replaced-ip )
1283 [13:49:38] <genr8_> so they really arent different at all ?
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1285 [13:52:26] *** Joins: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip )
1286 [13:52:46] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1287 [13:53:16] <ratrace> genr8_: apparently
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1298 [14:04:32] <Kobaz> hmmm, just upgraded to kernel 5.6.0 and everything is suuuuuuper slow now
1299 [14:04:46] <Kobaz> booting took forever, was stuck on staring udev for like 3 minutes
1300 [14:04:50] <Kobaz> and this is 100% ssd
1301 [14:05:48] <Kobaz> cpu load is like nothing, load average is 0
1302 [14:06:24] <another> head /proc/pressure/*
1303 [14:06:43] <Kobaz> replaced-url
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1306 [14:07:08] <Kobaz> replaced-url
1307 [14:07:45] <Kobaz> aaand replaced-url
1308 [14:07:54] <Kobaz> this slowdown makes no sense at all
1309 [14:08:23] <Kobaz> oh
1310 [14:08:24] <Kobaz> maybe it does'
1311 [14:08:26] <Kobaz> cpu MHz : 1197.184
1312 [14:08:48] <Kobaz> 1.1ghz shouldn't be this slow though
1313 [14:09:23] <ratrace> Kobaz: the cpu clock is variable. stays as low as possible until a workload spins it up
1314 [14:09:49] <Kobaz> not necessarily, i don't know what governor is being used
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1317 [14:10:49] <ratrace> Kobaz: if that's a (newer) intel, then "powersave" pstate
1318 [14:11:00] <ratrace> but... cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/*/scaling_governor
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1320 [14:11:13] <Kobaz> It's on powersave
1321 [14:11:18] <ratrace> mmmh-hmmm
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1323 [14:11:28] <Kobaz> ah, i usually use cpufreq, but it's not installed
1324 [14:11:54] <ratrace> powersave is ok. it _will_ ramp up to max mhz when needed. Don't know about turbo tho
1325 [14:12:06] <Kobaz> but i mean, this is ridiculous
1326 [14:12:10] *** Joins: Zardoz (~Zardoz@replaced-ip )
1327 [14:12:18] <ratrace> Kobaz: have you looked into dmesg? maybe there's clues
1328 [14:12:21] <genr8_> somethings not right.
1329 [14:12:21] <Kobaz> it's taking 10 minutes for a 3 small package apt-get
1330 [14:12:22] *** Joins: Hokedli (~laslie@replaced-ip )
1331 [14:12:28] <Kobaz> dmesg looks fine
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1335 [14:13:20] <genr8_> pick better options when you compile the kernel ;p
1336 [14:13:30] <Kobaz> tell that to the package maintainers
1337 [14:13:39] <Kobaz> Linux beastly 5.6.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Debian 5.6.14-2~bpo10+1 (2020-06-09) x86_64 GNU/Linux
1338 [14:13:47] <Kobaz> The first time i switch to a package-kernel on this box and it goes fubar
1339 [14:14:06] <ratrace> PREEMTP_RT ..... where did you get that kernel
1340 [14:14:12] <Kobaz> apt-get
1341 [14:14:25] <ratrace> which repo, buster backports?
1342 [14:14:36] <Kobaz> yup
1343 [14:14:37] <nevivurn> eh
1344 [14:14:43] <genr8_> why is it only 5.6 ?
1345 [14:14:51] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1346 [14:14:51] <ratrace> ,v linux-image-amd64
1347 [14:14:52] <judd> Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u7; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u5; buster-backports: 5.7.10-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.8.7-1; sid: 5.8.7-1; experimental: 5.9~rc4-1~exp1
1348 [14:14:53] <Kobaz> brcasue there's no PREEMPT_RT for anything newer
1349 [14:15:03] <genr8_> hmmmmmmmm
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1352 [14:15:05] <nevivurn> did you get linux-image-rt-amd64?
1353 [14:15:07] <Kobaz> it's always way behind
1354 [14:15:09] <ratrace> why are you using preempt rt?
1355 [14:15:23] <ratrace> I bet the RT is causing you problems
1356 [14:15:27] <Kobaz> hmm
1357 [14:15:31] *** Joins: nsegkos (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1358 [14:15:39] <nevivurn> Do you know what preemt rt is?
1359 [14:15:54] <Kobaz> preempt is preemptable kernel, so userspace gets higher priority
1360 [14:15:58] <Kobaz> and rt is realtime
1361 [14:16:01] <ratrace> Kobaz: check out /proc/interrupts, say a few seconds apart, do you have an intrrupt storm?
1362 [14:16:08] <ratrace> Kobaz: why do you think you need that?
1363 [14:16:10] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1364 [14:16:17] <Kobaz> ratrace: virtual machine server
1365 [14:16:31] <genr8_> thats not a good reason
1366 [14:16:32] <ratrace> Kobaz: then you're using the wrong kernel
1367 [14:16:46] <Kobaz> interesting
1368 [14:16:46] <ratrace> RT is not for VM performance, RT is for low latency interrupt reactivity
1369 [14:16:48] *** Joins: logithack (5092bfde@replaced-ip )
1370 [14:17:28] <jelly> ,v linux-image-rt-amd64
1371 [14:17:30] <judd> Package: linux-image-rt-amd64 on amd64 -- stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 4.19+105+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster: 4.19+105+deb10u5; buster-backports: 5.6.14-2~bpo10+1
1372 [14:17:45] <logithack> Currently, there are 3 ISO images available on the Debian download page (see bottom: replaced-url
1373 [14:18:03] <genr8_> part 1, part 2, part 3
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1375 [14:18:15] <Kobaz> well that's good to know
1376 [14:18:17] <jelly> logithack, the CONTENTS are different
1377 [14:18:18] <nevivurn> You usually only need part 1 if you have network availability
1378 [14:18:36] <ratrace> logithack: 3 DVDs for offline software installation; 1st suffices to install a basic desktop
1379 [14:18:41] <Kobaz> /proc/interrupts doesn't look that bad
1380 [14:18:44] <logithack> I didn't know the installation image was that big
1381 [14:19:04] <ratrace> logithack: depends what software you want. DVD1 packs a quite some
1382 [14:19:05] <nevivurn> logithack: you can get a smaller network boot disk that is a few hundred megs
1383 [14:19:14] <jelly> logithack, if you have internet connectivity during installation you can use the small netinst image.
1384 [14:19:20] <logithack> but since i'm connected to the internet, i can sit back and watch DVD 1 arrive ;)
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1388 [14:20:06] <logithack> Thanks guys!
1389 [14:20:10] <jelly> logithack, you have a consumer laptop however and you expect wifi and graphics to work, you might want to install using
1390 [14:20:15] <jelly> !firmware images
1391 [14:20:15] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
1392 [14:20:46] *** Joins: gribouille (~rrrrrr@replaced-ip )
1393 [14:20:46] <jelly> some hardware requires non-free firmware to work correctly
1394 [14:20:55] <gribouille> hi
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1396 [14:21:25] *** Joins: freebench (~freebench@replaced-ip )
1397 [14:21:33] <gribouille> how can I remap a key in a terminal like xterm (not in X globally)?
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1404 [14:24:24] <k-j-m_> can i upgrade to debian 10 to latest version
1405 [14:24:53] <genr8_> yes. 10 is the latest version. just run apt-get dist-upgrade
1406 [14:24:54] <k-j-m_> or is it last latest version
1407 [14:25:01] <ratrace> k-j-m_: from which version?
1408 [14:25:25] <k-j-m_> ratrace: 10
1409 [14:25:57] <nevivurn> 10 is the latest version, though.
1410 [14:26:03] <nevivurn> Do you mean something like testing?
1411 [14:26:33] <ratrace> k-j-m_: what point release are you on? cat /etc/debian_version
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1415 [14:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1149
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1419 [14:30:43] <k-j-m_> ratrace:10.5
1420 [14:31:14] <ratrace> k-j-m_: then you're on latest debian stable
1421 [14:33:24] <k-j-m_> ratrace:thanks i was not able to install qtile so i thought i was waybehind
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1423 [14:36:31] <k-j-m_> has anybody known why debian repo?
1424 [14:36:45] <k-j-m_> has not qtile
1425 [14:37:01] <dvs> ,v qtile
1426 [14:37:02] *** Quits: Butthole01 (~Butthole0@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Butthole01)
1427 [14:37:03] <judd> No package named 'qtile' was found in amd64.
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1429 [14:37:43] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip )
1430 [14:38:02] <k-j-m_> judd: thats why i asked!
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1432 [14:39:55] <ksk> it seems kind of recent softare (Current Release: v0.16.1,) - might be related to that..
1433 [14:40:03] <ksk> *It seems to be
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1435 [14:40:53] <Kobaz> looks like i need to build a kernel afterall
1436 [14:40:58] *** Quits: renken (~renken@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1437 [14:41:04] <ksk> okay, judging from upstream it once was part of debian. If I know was able to remember the "why is XY not in debian" trigger for once.. ;)
1438 [14:41:09] <Kobaz> the latest debian buster backports 5.7.0 doesn't recognize my btrfs root
1439 [14:41:15] <Kobaz> but 5.6.0-rt does
1440 [14:41:23] <ksk> judd, why is qtile not in debian
1441 [14:41:24] <judd> No package named 'is' was found in buster/amd64.
1442 [14:41:32] <ksk> judd, why qtile not in debian
1443 [14:41:33] <judd> No package named 'qtile' was found in buster/amd64.
1444 [14:41:47] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1445 [14:42:22] <k-j-m_> i dont think that any one has tried qtitle in debian 10.if so can anyone help me with this.
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1447 [14:44:07] <ksk> k-j-m_: what kind of errors are you getting? In generel such problems would be much better fitted for the qtile community of course, as it is third party software to Debian
1448 [14:45:50] <k-j-m_> ksk: thanks man , thats what i want to know man thanks very much
1449 [14:47:04] <ksk> not sure if irony or not :P
1450 [14:50:32] <k-j-m_> ksk: does qtile has irc client? please man
1451 [14:51:49] <ksk> k-j-m_: glad to be your google frontend: irc.oftc.net/#qtile
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1456 [14:59:26] <k-j-m_> ksk : i lost my hope man they are not active now
1457 [15:00:52] <k-j-m_> can one help with my problem
1458 [15:01:11] <k-j-m_> qtile install in debian 10.5
1459 [15:01:21] <ksk> k-j-m_: until you state your problem, how can we help you..
1460 [15:01:53] <k-j-m_> i cant install qtile
1461 [15:02:01] <ksk> !does not work
1462 [15:02:01] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
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1465 [15:02:55] <dvs> k-j-m_, as judd told you, qtile is not packaged in Debian
1466 [15:02:58] <k-j-m_> error------"E: Unable to locate package qtile"
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1468 [15:03:57] <k-j-m_> ksk : if its not there how can i install qtile?
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1471 [15:04:44] <another> package it, find a repo that you trust which does package it, install manually, ...
1472 [15:04:55] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1473 [15:05:03] <genr8_> The documentation is wrong: replaced-url
1474 [15:05:06] *** Quits: nulleip (~luiz@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1475 [15:05:16] <genr8_> says it used to exist, but now it doesnt, and to install from source.
1476 [15:05:25] <k-j-m_> thats another problem
1477 [15:05:54] <genr8_> you can read right ? or language problem ?
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1480 [15:06:34] <k-j-m_> genr8_: language is not the problem
1481 [15:06:45] *** Quits: nan` (~nan`@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1482 [15:06:54] <genr8_> so read that page. theres 3 or 4 pip commands to install it.
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1486 [15:08:54] <genr8_> if you give me $5 I will type them for you
1487 [15:09:06] <ksk> *insert monero address here*
1488 [15:09:59] <oiaohm> k-j-m_: replaced-url
1489 [15:10:42] *** Joins: sphenxes (~sphenxes@replaced-ip )
1490 [15:10:48] <n4dir> though if you got that hard times to do such research, you might reconsider to stick whatever is available from the repositories. Just a thought
1491 [15:11:20] *** Quits: k-j-m_ (~k-j-m@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1492 [15:11:59] <n4dir> it just makes your life easier.
1493 [15:12:31] <genr8_> he blames us for it not being 1 apt-get command. now life is haaaaaaard hard hard.
1494 [15:12:46] *** Joins: nulleip (~luiz@replaced-ip )
1495 [15:14:35] <another> tbf, life *is* hard
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1497 [15:17:34] <n4dir> depending where you come from it isn't that clear that for debian it is considered good advice to stick to the official repositories (or at least that how it seems to me)
1498 [15:18:08] <n4dir> i sure got no idea if qtile does anything other wm's don't do.
1499 [15:18:27] *** Quits: gribouille (~rrrrrr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1500 [15:21:22] <genr8_> I imagine its just too new
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1505 [15:22:45] <genr8_> is there a !factoid for "new/shiny"
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1507 [15:23:17] <dvs> !sns
1508 [15:23:18] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
1509 [15:23:19] <ksk> !sns
1510 [15:23:20] <Bushmaster> Hi, I know I may get heat cos of the inquiry I have but I am getting this error message everytime I try to install something in Ubuntu machine, i know its ubuntu problem, hence do not wanna put you out, just inquiring whether this problem can be resolved if it happens lets say in any Linux distro replaced-url
1511 [15:23:29] <dvs> ksk, liar! ;-)
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1513 [15:23:57] <ksk> someone already said that 1s ago!
1514 [15:24:10] <genr8_> Bushmaster, yes, it means another package manager is running
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1517 [15:24:51] <Bushmaster> genr8_, thanks for answering, is this automated, because all I did is boot Ubuntu, nothing else
1518 [15:25:18] <genr8_> yes its automated in ubuntu. it could be busy.
1519 [15:25:22] <genr8_> try again later.
1520 [15:25:36] <ksk> Answering that question however leads us deep into buntuland :P Take a look at your desktop, if there is some Update-Symbol
1521 [15:25:43] *** Joins: ghaoil (~ghaoil@replaced-ip )
1522 [15:25:43] <ksk> (in system tray most likely)
1523 [15:26:01] <Bushmaster> very weird isn't it genr8_ OS suppose to make peoples life easy, and here I am where all it doing is hassling
1524 [15:26:18] <ksk> taking a look at a "tree of processes running" (ps aux, pstree) could also lead you to identify said process.
1525 [15:26:35] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1526 [15:26:38] <genr8_> yes. I dont like Ubuntu because it has too many rogue processes.
1527 [15:26:42] <Bushmaster> ksk you writing this for me?
1528 [15:26:50] <genr8_> taking actions without my say-so
1529 [15:26:52] <ksk> yes.
1530 [15:27:10] <Bushmaster> well, I will just get rid of it then, I utlized several machiens and I just gonna get rid of Ubuntu
1531 [15:27:11] <ghaoil> I'd like to preseed a debian net-installation. I've managed to include my preseed file in the ISO using the excellent documentation on the wiki. But I'd like to pull it from an HTTP server.
1532 [15:27:33] <n4dir> the script ps_mem.py made me easily see whatever ubuntu thinks it needs to do automated. Or at least a part of it. Then get rid of it
1533 [15:27:50] *** Quits: gryffus (~gryffus@replaced-ip ) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1534 [15:27:54] <genr8_> even ubuntu-server 20.04 is problematic. they drank too much koolaid.
1535 [15:27:54] <ghaoil> Is that possible to do even before the network is configured in the installed or working with two preseed files. The second being loaded after the first has configured the network?
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1537 [15:28:41] <Bushmaster> genr8_, I will just get rid of it, plenty of distros available, obviously my main machine id Debian where I am talkign to you now anyway
1538 [15:28:46] *** Quits: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1539 [15:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1156
1540 [15:30:04] <n4dir> funny to have so much work to undo what ubuntu did to make your life easy ...
1541 [15:30:05] <de-facto> how do i get the debhelper-compat level of my distro?
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1543 [15:30:07] *** Joins: gusnan (~gusnan@replaced-ip )
1544 [15:30:07] <genr8_> good. I hope more people realize it and stop recommending Ubuntu. its super lazy
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1547 [15:30:46] <de-facto> trying to build a package Unmet build dependencies: debhelper-compat (= 13)
1548 [15:31:32] <Bushmaster> genr8_, there channel is crap too, thousands of people sitting but no one even care to reply
1549 [15:31:34] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1550 [15:32:28] <de-facto> is there a command to read out the current dephelper-compat level of a debian release?
1551 [15:32:34] <genr8_> n4dir, theres some kind of philosophical issue between "make millions of users lives easier so we dont get support tickets" vs "make _MY_ life easier so I can understand it". I'm not millions of idiots. I know what I want and I want to control my system, not have the system control me.
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1555 [15:33:33] <de-facto> i have debhelper 10.2.5 installed but lowering that debhelper-compat (= 10) does not work
1556 [15:33:55] <genr8_> its an unsolved debacle. multiple distros solve it, but only incidentally. you still have to comply with all the bad choices of your distromaker thats closest to your ideal choices.
1557 [15:34:04] <de-facto> error: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper-compat (>= 10)
1558 [15:34:07] *** Parts: Bushmaster (~BushDog@replaced-ip ) ("Leaving")
1559 [15:34:22] <de-facto> so how do i find my current debhelper-compat level?
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1562 [15:35:09] <n4dir> de-facto: i once ran in that, but don't recall. I'd say do the build in a sid-chroot or with pbuilder, but am pretty sure the solution was more easy. There is an irc channel for people who build for themselves, not to maintain an app
1563 [15:35:24] *** Joins: hkz (~hkz@replaced-ip )
1564 [15:35:43] <n4dir> searching for that channels name ...
1565 [15:35:49] <genr8_> im of the same mindset as Devuan distro, except i wish OG Debian took that approach so I didnt have to go to a splinter-distro.
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1568 [15:36:43] <jelly> Kobaz, which cpu model do you have? There have been changes in freq/voltage scaling in recent kernels that affect CPUs older than... I think Sky Lake
1569 [15:36:55] <n4dir> de-facto: #packaging: Meant for support for people doing packaging outside of Debian. See #debian-mentors for packaging within Debian.
1570 [15:36:58] <Kobaz> Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1650 v3 @ 3.50GHz
1571 [15:37:04] <jelly> ,v debhelper
1572 [15:37:05] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 13.2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 13.2.1; sid: 13.2.1
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1574 [15:37:22] <Kobaz> jelly: also, the reason for RT, is voip-guest systems, that really do want 10ms time slices
1575 [15:37:23] <jelly> de-facto, which release are you on?
1576 [15:37:42] <de-facto> its stretch
1577 [15:37:44] <jelly> Kobaz, and 4.19 isn't good enough?
1578 [15:37:56] <Kobaz> btrfs is... less good on 4.19
1579 [15:38:04] <de-facto> yeah stretch: 10.2.5
1580 [15:38:22] <jelly> de-facto, you're screwed, then, stretch-backports has debhelper 12.1.1
1581 [15:38:28] <de-facto> so i thought i might just try to lower the debhelper-compat level in debian/control
1582 [15:38:33] <jelly> de-facto, what are you trying to backport
1583 [15:38:39] <de-facto> znc
1584 [15:38:43] <jelly> which znc
1585 [15:38:46] <jelly> ,v znc
1586 [15:38:47] <n4dir> as said, i was giving the solution to said problem in said channel
1587 [15:38:48] <judd> Package: znc on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4-2; jessie-security: 1.4-2+deb8u2; stretch: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 1.7.2-3~bpo9+1; buster: 1.7.2-3; buster-backports: 1.8.1-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.8.2-1; sid: 1.8.2-1
1588 [15:38:55] <de-facto> the one from sid
1589 [15:39:26] <jelly> n4dir, well, stretch isn't "out of debian"
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1591 [15:39:41] <de-facto> if i could find out what my current debhelper package provides at debhelper-compat level i could try to write that into debian/control and see if it would compile
1592 [15:39:57] <de-facto> but how would i find out my debhelper-compat level?
1593 [15:39:57] <n4dir> jelly: that channel is for people who compile for themselves, instead of the mentors, which is for people who start packaging for debian
1594 [15:40:04] <jelly> de-facto, the compats match major versions of debhelper IIRC
1595 [15:40:21] <de-facto> yeah but thats not accepted for some reason
1596 [15:40:23] <de-facto> e.g. =10
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1598 [15:40:46] <de-facto> error: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper-compat (= 10)
1599 [15:40:51] <jelly> n4dir, yes, I know, we still help people doing backports to oldstable in here.
1600 [15:40:59] <de-facto> note its dependencies error, not compile or such
1601 [15:41:09] <jelly> de-facto, try 12 and install debhelper from backports.
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1603 [15:41:18] <jelly> stretch-backports that is
1604 [15:41:33] <genr8_> #packaging isnt on this network ?
1605 [15:41:39] <jelly> !oftc
1606 [15:41:39] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
1607 [15:41:44] <genr8_> k
1608 [15:42:05] <jelly> !oftc move
1609 [15:42:05] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
1610 [15:42:09] <de-facto> ok lets see
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1612 [15:43:15] <de-facto> hmm that conflicts with cmake
1613 [15:43:20] <de-facto> meh :/
1614 [15:43:55] <de-facto> why cant I just find out my current debhelper-compat level?
1615 [15:44:12] <de-facto> it must have such a level for all the stretch packages
1616 [15:44:23] <jelly> ,provides debhelper --release stretch
1617 [15:44:24] <judd> Package debhelper in stretch/amd64 provides no additional packages.
1618 [15:44:30] <jelly> hum.
1619 [15:44:51] <jelly> that's not right
1620 [15:45:00] <genr8_> apt-cache show debhelper
1621 [15:45:45] <jelly> the one I got. from stretch-backports, provides up to = 12
1622 [15:45:47] <jelly> Provides: debhelper-compat (= 9), debhelper-compat (= 10), debhelper-compat (= 11), debhelper-compat (= 12), dh-sequence-dwz, dh-sequence-installinitramfs, dh-sequence-systemd
1623 [15:46:03] <de-facto> yeah but i could hot install cmake then
1624 [15:46:04] <jelly> those versioned provides match major versions of dh
1625 [15:46:12] <jelly> de-facto, that is a separate issue
1626 [15:46:14] <jelly> !bat
1627 [15:46:15] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1628 [15:46:19] <jelly> ^^
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1630 [15:47:31] <de-facto> what is the normal debhelper-compat level for stretch?
1631 [15:47:48] *** Quits: towo^work (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1632 [15:48:20] <jelly> de-facto, you can see it if you LOOK AT Provides: field of your debhelper package.
1633 [15:48:39] <jelly> dpkg -s installed-package-name, or what genr8_ said, if it's not installed
1634 [15:48:39] <dpkg> There is no record of a installed-package-name, or what genr8_ said, if it's not installed package
1635 [15:48:45] *** Quits: absinthe (~absinthe@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1636 [15:48:49] <jelly> dpkg, hush
1637 [15:48:49] <dpkg> Fine, I'll shut up.
1638 [15:49:02] <genr8_> hah
1639 [15:49:09] *** Parts: tramplefoot (~kby@replaced-ip ) ()
1640 [15:49:45] <de-facto> lol aaw :)
1641 [15:49:52] *** Joins: absinthe (~absinthe@replaced-ip )
1642 [15:50:28] <de-facto> hmm weird
1643 [15:50:35] <de-facto> "dpkg -s debhelper | grep Provides" is empty
1644 [15:50:47] <jelly> is it installed?
1645 [15:51:05] <de-facto> yes
1646 [15:51:20] *** Joins: Hal2001 (~anon@replaced-ip )
1647 [15:51:22] <genr8_> apt-cache show debhelper | grep Provides
1648 [15:51:43] <de-facto> ah there
1649 [15:51:53] <de-facto> Provides: debhelper-compat (= 9), debhelper-compat (= 10), debhelper-compat (= 11), debhelper-compat (= 12), dh-sequence-dwz, dh-sequence-installinitramfs, dh-sequence-systemd
1650 [15:52:16] <de-facto> uhm one moment thats not the installed one
1651 [15:52:34] <jelly> you're right, the one from stretch really doesn't have that header
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1653 [15:52:56] <jelly> probably because versioned Provides are a recent invention
1654 [15:53:36] <de-facto> hmm how can i make dpkg-buildpackage happy about debian/control and at least try to compile it?
1655 [15:53:58] <jelly> go change debian/rules so that it works with your older debhelper, instead
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1658 [15:54:41] <jelly> (that is, grab source for znc for your release, grab source for sid, then compare debian/rules and adapt it so that it works on stretch)
1659 [15:55:04] <de-facto> if i completely remove debhelper-compat from control it also stops
1660 [15:55:05] <de-facto> dh: Compatibility levels before 5 are no longer supported (level 1 requested)
1661 [15:55:18] <de-facto> so i have to provide it some level
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1663 [15:55:47] <de-facto> yeah debian rules would be the next but first i have to fix control
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1665 [15:57:42] <jelly> you could also try to 1) backport debhelper 13 and install it 2) attempt to build znc again
1666 [15:58:05] <jelly> but often those version bumps in dh have an actual reason
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1668 [15:58:14] *** Joins: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
1669 [15:58:43] <n4dir> i tried backporting debhelper too, but that ran in the next issues, iirc
1670 [15:58:54] *** Quits: uvolmer (~uvolmer@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1671 [15:59:05] <de-facto> yet how do all those stretch packages compile? they also need some debhelper version
1672 [15:59:30] <jelly> their build deps match what it available in that release
1673 [15:59:55] <jelly> <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 13.2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 13.2.1; sid: 13.2.1
1674 [15:59:58] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1675 [15:59:59] <jelly> so, 10
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1679 [16:00:56] <de-facto> maybe i try debhelper (>= 9)
1680 [16:01:01] <jelly> ,build-dep znc --release stretch
1681 [16:01:02] <judd> Package znc in stretch -- Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 9), libssl-dev, libperl-dev, libicu-dev, pkg-config, tcl8.5-dev, libsasl2-dev, swig3.0, dh-python, python3-dev.
1682 [16:01:27] <genr8_> nothin crazy
1683 [16:01:30] <jelly> it's not -compat there yet, just debhelper
1684 [16:02:04] <jelly> ,build-dep znc --release buster-backports
1685 [16:02:05] <judd> Package znc in buster-backports -- Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 13), dh-python, cmake, google-mock, googletest, pkg-config, swig, libboost-all-dev, libcurl4-openssl-dev, libssl-dev, libperl-dev, libicu-dev, libsasl2-dev, zlib1g-dev, tcl-dev, python3-dev.
1686 [16:02:06] <de-facto> yeah i just looked at that, it seems there is no debhelper-compat indeed
1687 [16:02:24] <jelly> oh, they moved to cmake
1688 [16:02:37] <genr8_> oh boy. that sounds way worse.
1689 [16:03:01] <de-facto> meh
1690 [16:03:08] <jelly> my znc server is on stretch as well, but I'm happy with 1.6.5 so far
1691 [16:03:09] <genr8_> libboost-all-dev <-- f that
1692 [16:03:19] * jelly hopes debian fixes any security issues
1693 [16:03:24] <jelly> heheh
1694 [16:03:35] <de-facto> yeah, i just wanted to at least try to compile it
1695 [16:03:36] <jelly> what's 500MB of boost crap among friends
1696 [16:04:10] <jelly> de-facto, maybe some of that is optional and you can build without the support
1697 [16:04:21] <de-facto> thats my hope
1698 [16:04:42] <genr8_> my buster znc says: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - replaced-url
1699 [16:04:44] <de-facto> so with the debhelper (>= 9) it goes a bit further, but then still complains dh: Compatibility levels before 5 are no longer supported (level 1 requested)
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1701 [16:05:51] <de-facto> hmm guessing, putting a 9 in debian/compat
1702 [16:05:53] <jelly> you could also upgrade the whole machine to buster and then use the ready-made backport :-)
1703 [16:06:07] <de-facto> oh it compiles stuff
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1705 [16:06:17] * de-facto keeps fingers crossed
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1709 [16:10:23] <de-facto> at 4% and working hard on it, wow that may take a while
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1714 [16:17:21] <de-facto> hmm i should have instructed it to use parallel build jobs, 16% now
1715 [16:17:49] <de-facto> yeah i guess at some point i have to upgrade that server to buster yet its a ton of work
1716 [16:18:05] <de-facto> and i was too lazy to deal with it yet
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1735 [16:32:24] <genr8_> 9 to 10 went as smoothly as possible for me
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1747 [16:39:14] <de-facto> yay it compiled :)))
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1753 [16:43:10] <jelly> but does it work!
1754 [16:43:18] <de-facto> so it seems it was only that debian/control debhelper-compat (= 13) changed to debhelper (>= 9) and putting a "9" in debian/compat
1755 [16:43:31] <de-facto> thats to be seen
1756 [16:44:06] <de-facto> at least it installed
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1770 [17:08:42] <de-facto> everything looking good so far :)
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1795 [17:42:04] <goddard> what is the best way to find the directories that are using the most space?
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1797 [17:42:38] * Haohmaru deploys an ear
1798 [17:42:48] <JordiGH> goddard: I run k4dirstat
1799 [17:42:59] <JordiGH> treemaps ftw
1800 [17:44:20] <goddard> i should of said it is a server
1801 [17:44:25] <goddard> i wish i could use a gui
1802 [17:44:27] <goddard> haha
1803 [17:46:45] <AndreasLutro> goddard: ncdu
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1805 [17:46:52] <jhutchins> goddard: du
1806 [17:47:12] <jhutchins> goddard: The command line is much more powerful.
1807 [17:47:53] <jhutchins> With a GUI, you can only do what someone else has already thought of.
1808 [17:48:20] <goddard> nice ncdu
1809 [17:48:28] <mutante> goddard: replaced-url
1810 [17:48:30] <goddard> haha true
1811 [17:48:34] <mutante> i keep going back to that one
1812 [17:48:50] <goddard> i cant even run sort when the disk is full
1813 [17:49:20] <mutante> goddard: when disk is full i first do "apt-cache clean" and usually i get a bit of space
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1816 [17:49:54] <jhutchins> Storage is cheap these days.
1817 [17:50:07] <mutante> goddard: sorry, i meant to say "apt-get clean"
1818 [17:50:29] <mutante> if that is not enough.. go to /var/log/ and start gzipping old files
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1820 [17:51:03] <jelly> disks are cheap, reliable storage is still expensive
1821 [17:51:33] <mutante> i don't think "buy a new disk" will solve it quickly if he can't even fun find
1822 [17:51:36] <mutante> run
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1825 [17:52:13] <jelly> goddard, du -x /mount/point > /dev/shm/du-x-point.$(date -I).txt ... or some ram disk other than /dev/shm if you have one
1826 [17:52:21] <jelly> my /tmp are usually tmpfs
1827 [17:52:37] <jelly> goddard, then sort -n that output file
1828 [17:52:55] <goddard> why when i use ls -lah it has some size numbers as just numbers like 543 without a k at the end for kilobytes?
1829 [17:53:17] <jelly> "bytes" are implied
1830 [17:53:22] <goddard> i see
1831 [17:53:24] <goddard> so small
1832 [17:53:25] <mutante> goddard: du -hs will use "M", "G" etc
1833 [17:54:58] <goddard> log dir is only 431M
1834 [17:55:00] <mutante> just use find to identify the largest above, details in link above
1835 [17:55:03] <goddard> its gotta be something else
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1839 [17:56:49] <jhutchins> goddard: Mail spool?
1840 [17:57:22] <goddard> my journal dir in the log file is taking up 400M thouse
1841 [17:57:24] <mutante> use one of the ~ 6 solutions that have been listed?
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1843 [17:57:54] <goddard> mutante:i would use ncdu but i cant install the app with limited space
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1845 [17:58:09] <mutante> goddard: you don't need to install any app. just use find or du
1846 [17:58:18] <goddard> sure
1847 [17:58:18] <jhutchins> goddard: Journal is supposed to be self-limiting to a certain percent (5%?) of the mounted partition (/var).
1848 [17:58:31] <goddard> i see
1849 [17:58:50] <jhutchins> du -sh /* should give you a clue where to look. Just keep drilling down.
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1851 [17:58:58] <mutante> ignore everything that is just "M", | grep G
1852 [17:59:14] <goddard> i hate google cloud
1853 [17:59:25] <mutante> how is that related?
1854 [17:59:45] <goddard> well i could just expand the disk, but unlike other cloud providers they make it difficult and manual
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1856 [17:59:52] <mutante> it's frustrating if people provide all those options but none of them is being considered
1857 [18:00:05] <goddard> mutante: i think that is your perception my friend
1858 [18:00:07] <goddard> i have listened
1859 [18:00:14] <goddard> i found the place taking up the disk space
1860 [18:00:17] <goddard> thank you
1861 [18:00:26] <mutante> ok, cool
1862 [18:00:42] <goddard> ya sorry i should of said that
1863 [18:00:58] <goddard> my mind is racing trying to figure this stuff out on the fly of a production system
1864 [18:01:08] <goddard> like why the heck isn't it auto expanding?
1865 [18:01:18] <goddard> performance?
1866 [18:01:19] <mutante> gotcha. glad you found it. if something in the Megabytes is the largest that is unusual
1867 [18:01:42] <mutante> usually it's about a logfile of several G
1868 [18:01:46] <goddard> i think it is my project files
1869 [18:02:04] <goddard> can you gzip files on the fly while also "deleting" them?
1870 [18:02:06] <mutante> run the find command and you can be sure
1871 [18:02:09] <goddard> if that makes sense
1872 [18:02:10] <mutante> goddard: yes
1873 [18:02:23] <mutante> gzip will zip it and delete the original
1874 [18:02:34] <goddard> even when under tight constraints ?
1875 [18:02:36] <mutante> have done that before on large logs
1876 [18:02:42] <goddard> cool
1877 [18:03:23] <jhutchins> logrotate is essential
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1879 [18:03:26] <mutante> goddard: also you can use find to identify which files are "older than X days" and usually with logfiles people don't care anymore if they are old
1880 [18:03:29] <karlpinc> I dunno. In my experience the deleted file is not gone until gzip completes.
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1883 [18:03:59] <jhutchins> find /var/log -ctime +90 -delete
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1885 [18:04:59] * karlpinc wishes the debian logrotate default was dateext so the file names don't change.
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1889 [18:06:24] <karlpinc> s/gone/reclaimed/
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1893 [18:08:41] <goddard> damn i can't even sftp the files off the server
1894 [18:09:16] <goddard> wonder if rsync will work
1895 [18:12:26] <moldy> if there is some kind of rescue mode it might be a good idea to boot into that to, avoid processes constantly filling up the disk again while you're working
1896 [18:12:27] <jhutchins> goddard: You can clear the apt archives and indexes, that will give you some room. (Haven't had to do it on a Debian system, did it a lot on RH.)
1897 [18:12:58] <jhutchins> moldy: There are hints that this is a cloud instance, so that's probably not an option.
1898 [18:13:05] <karlpinc> jhutchins: Good idea
1899 [18:13:11] <moldy> jhutchins: some cloud providers offer such things
1900 [18:13:50] <moldy> you might also be able to spin up another instance and mount the virtual disk there. haven't used google cloud so i don't know the specifics there.
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1902 [18:14:22] <jhutchins> moldy: I gather there are uptime issues.
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1904 [18:14:54] <moldy> possibly, but at some point the only choice you have might be to pick the reason for being offline ;p
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1906 [18:15:49] <moldy> (obviously, for the future, it's a good idea to monitor disk space so you get a warning before it's filled up)
1907 [18:15:53] <jelly> dateext AND dateformat .%Y-%m-%d, the default is horrible
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1911 [18:20:00] <goddard> phew got it down to 91%
1912 [18:20:06] <goddard> i feel a little better
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1944 [18:48:46] <johnjay> how much memory does debian require to install?
1945 [18:48:54] <johnjay> i notice the qemu default of 128M doesn't work anymore
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1947 [18:49:12] <johnjay> i specify -m 1024M now
1948 [18:49:16] <moldy> johnjay: i've somewhat-recently installed it on a 512M system
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1951 [18:50:11] <johnjay> is it the size of the initrd that causes the size?
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1961 [19:05:03] <psusi> I don't think you've been able to boot a linux system with only 128m for a number of years now... 512m is tight even for a headless server
1962 [19:05:16] <jelly> johnjay, go with 256MB for x86
1963 [19:05:24] <psusi> which is odd because I distinctly remember booting debian from 1.44m floppies in a 486 with 2m of ram
1964 [19:05:41] <jelly> you can boot a 128MB system, but apt and dpkg won't run without swap
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1966 [19:05:57] <johnjay> what about x8664?
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1968 [19:06:06] <jelly> about the same
1969 [19:06:13] <johnjay> the installer failed to run with the defaults
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1971 [19:06:15] <another> 486 was dropped, wasn't it?
1972 [19:06:19] <johnjay> which this page says is 128MB
1973 [19:06:33] <jelly> amd64 works well on my cheap 2euro VM with 512M RAM
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1975 [19:07:09] <jelly> johnjay, you could give more RAM during installation, then reduce it for running
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1977 [19:08:23] <johnjay> maybe it's because i choose graphical install from the menu?
1978 [19:08:27] <jelly> but if you have 128MB that's more of an embedded system, so consider either building an image or running a different distro better suited for embedded devices, like OpwnWRT
1979 [19:08:53] <jelly> I don't know how much more would a GUI installer take, don't do that
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1983 [19:09:36] <johnjay> hah wow. so if i put it on 256M it fails. if i put it on 512M it doesn't fail but it does show a ncurses interface and says entering low-memory mode.
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1985 [19:09:44] <jelly> good
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1988 [19:10:50] <jelly> johnjay, what's your actual goal here? Just playing around, or do you have hard limits somewhere?
1989 [19:11:05] <johnjay> curioser and curioser. at 768M it doesn't announce it's in low memory mode but it goes to the ncurses interface anyway
1990 [19:11:19] <johnjay> oh yeah i forgot i was in #debian
1991 [19:11:24] <johnjay> just playing around
1992 [19:12:27] <johnjay> i suppose to make it topical it would be nice if the installer reported that you need XYZ memory or something instead of silently failing or silently working randomly
1993 [19:13:19] <jelly> you're kind of supposed to read the installation guide for minimum requirements
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1996 [19:13:41] <jelly> !i-g
1997 [19:13:41] <dpkg> The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at replaced-url
1998 [19:13:43] <th_> johnjay, DSL linux only needs 8mb to install
1999 [19:13:53] <jelly> true to its name!
2000 [19:14:09] * jelly shines a LED diode light on it
2001 [19:14:23] <psusi> wtf? I thought just loading the kernel with no initramfs and init=/bin/bash took more than 8mg of ram!
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2007 [19:14:45] <johnjay> fair enough. although the document you linked suggests 800MB which is not suffcient according to qemu
2008 [19:14:49] <johnjay> needed 900 min
2009 [19:14:52] <acu> !paste
2010 [19:14:53] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
2011 [19:15:05] <jelly> we accept patches for documentation as well!
2012 [19:15:08] * jelly hides
2013 [19:15:21] <psusi> johnjay: for the gui install or classic d-i?
2014 [19:15:26] <johnjay> gui
2015 [19:15:33] <johnjay> replaced-url
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2017 [19:15:46] <psusi> yea, probably need a gig for gui
2018 [19:16:25] <johnjay> what's funny is i just picked 1024 randomly. but it just happened to be barely adequate
2019 [19:17:04] <jelly> the installer is heavy, it puts most its stuff in a RAM disk while doing its work
2020 [19:17:27] <jhutchins> What you need to boot the OS and what you need to do useful work are different questions these days. The OS mostly stays out of your way unless you get silly with desktop accessories.
2021 [19:18:16] <jelly> if you avoid patching and installing things, you can run useful workloads with eve less
2022 [19:18:34] <jelly> apt is a C++ beastie
2023 [19:19:15] <jelly> theoretically you could make a d-i that uses zram+swap and maybe be able to run with less RAM
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2026 [19:21:18] <crn> what replaced netstat in debian 10?
2027 [19:21:30] <jelly> zram+swap half the memory, let the CPU do all the swapping/unswapping compression/decompression of pages, it easily provides 50% more effective RAM size, more depending on load. It's better if you give the VM at least two cores
2028 [19:21:47] <jelly> crn, for open ports, ss, for routes, ip r
2029 [19:21:59] <jelly> or you can install net-tools back and have netstat
2030 [19:22:11] <jelly> ss is sometimes MUCH slower than netstat
2031 [19:22:20] <crn> jelly, thanks.
2032 [19:23:53] <jelly> crn, replaces in Debian 9, actually, replaced-url
2033 [19:24:10] * jelly can't English
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2039 [19:26:32] <crn> jelly, i had a problem while administrating cups. now localhost is not listening to port 631 (and others). how can i fix this?
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2044 [19:28:00] <jelly> crn, verify whether the cups service is running at all
2045 [19:28:54] <crn> jelly, it is. i can access it through the desktop.
2046 [19:29:13] <jelly> using which tool?
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2048 [19:30:05] <crn> print settings in gnome
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2051 [19:31:53] <jelly> crn, run lsof -np PID-OF-cupsd-PROCESS as root, see if it's merely unresponsive on 631/tcp or really isn't listening. Restart the service, verify the pid changed, and see if that makes any difference.
2052 [19:32:00] <jelly> read the logs.
2053 [19:32:14] <crn> ok
2054 [19:32:39] <jelly> ss and netstat may also need to be run as root to work properly
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2056 [19:33:33] <crn> ok
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2058 [19:35:57] <crn> jelly, it's listening on 640 and 670
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2061 [19:37:00] <crn> jelly, using root for lsof netstat etc
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2063 [19:38:15] <johnjay> jelly: i get zram but swap implies a disk doesn't it?
2064 [19:40:10] <jmcnaught> Swap uses a block device, which can be a ram disk, which can be compressed. That's zram.
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2066 [19:42:38] <johnjay> jelly: i misread that as use the crn program for open ports!
2067 [19:43:10] <johnjay> ah ok. maybe i'm naive but i would think using compression would be the default
2068 [19:43:26] <johnjay> esp with all the multi-core now
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2070 [19:44:06] <johnjay> on the other hand it's rare to have less than a gig of ram anyway
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2085 [20:10:09] <crn> jelly, fyi somehow cupsd.conf was renamed to cupsd.conf.O and cupsd.conf replaced it 1 second later with the Listen localhost:631 directive deleted. Thanks for your help.
2086 [20:10:44] <jelly> that's weird
2087 [20:10:56] <crn> right.
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2089 [20:11:19] <jelly> johnjay, I've run zram+swap even on desktops with 8-14GB RAM
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2091 [20:11:36] <greycat> I would guess something is "managing" that system, keeping its conf files synced to a master/outside source.
2092 [20:11:40] <jelly> Chrome browser is a nasty bloated thing, and I don't like to close tabs
2093 [20:12:13] <jelly> Firefox as well, but it's livable with NoScript
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2121 [21:01:35] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Would it be safe to delete some symlinks in /dev/disk/by-id to reimport a zfs pool? My HBA creates some unreliable UUID names which managed to pollute my pools, I'd delete those then reimport based on WWN IDs
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2131 [21:05:16] <jhutchins> Aurora_v_kosmose: Do you have good backups?
2132 [21:05:32] <Aurora_v_kosmose> jhutchins: I'm going to take that as a "no it's not safe"
2133 [21:06:42] <blebz> Lolz
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2136 [21:07:24] <jhutchins> Aurora_v_kosmose: Not having good backups is always not safe, especially if you're going to mess with system configuration.
2137 [21:07:41] <Aurora_v_kosmose> I have backups, but wasting literal hours to restore from backups is not a nice idea.
2138 [21:07:57] <Aurora_v_kosmose> So if there's any chance of such a waste of time, I'd rather avoid it.
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2140 [21:10:01] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Which instead means I'll just do progressive resilvers of every mirror. Longer but no downtime.
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2144 [21:13:58] <jhutchins> Aurora_v_kosmose: I've never had to mess with the /dev files for disks, except for tracking down LVM targets.
2145 [21:14:30] <jhutchins> Aurora_v_kosmose: How much storage is involved here?
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2147 [21:15:59] <Aurora_v_kosmose> A few terabytes.
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2154 [21:19:06] <oxek> "Use of the Xephyr X server instead of Xnest is recommended." said on replaced-url
2155 [21:19:12] <oxek> is this comment from debian or X?
2156 [21:20:56] <sney> probably the debian X team
2157 [21:21:43] <oxek> so I guess I should listen to them and move over onto xephyr then
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2160 [21:24:05] <oxek> reading about xephyr makes me think I should have used that ages ago
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2167 [21:31:05] <b_jonas> hello. I have a problem on my new computer that I don't know how to debug. when I start X with the startx command, the X server starts and can run programs, but doesn't react to keyboard or mouse. and if I switch back to a different tty with the chvt command, I get a partly glitched state on the framebuffer console where most of the text is visible, but some of it is covered by junk apparently left by
2168 [21:31:11] <b_jonas> Xorg, and I have no idea how to even fix that without a reboot.
2169 [21:31:44] <b_jonas> so I guess I have two problems. how do I reinitialize the video mode for the framebuffer console? and how do I debug the X problem?
2170 [21:32:03] * oxek would love to help but is sick of X for the day
2171 [21:32:21] <oxek> is using chvt from an X session to get to a tty a good idea anyway?
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2173 [21:35:56] <b_jonas> oxek: I don't know, it used to work before, but I don't know any other way to get out of the X since the keyboard and mouse doesn't do anything
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2175 [21:38:05] <blebz> I got a strange problem with Debian buster.. when I plug in my Wacom tablet I get 2 mouse pointers.. does anyone know what might be causing this issue?
2176 [21:38:24] <blebz> It breaks Krita
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2178 [21:38:40] <shibboleth> running cryptsetup lukserase on a live/mounted volume will leave it usable until reboot/luksclose, right?
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2184 [21:41:30] <oxek> shibboleth: correct
2185 [21:41:52] <oxek> b_jonas: good point.
2186 [21:42:01] <shibboleth> yeah, that was my impression but i thought i'd ask for a second opinion
2187 [21:42:11] <shibboleth> i could not find any source material, did you?
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2189 [21:42:30] <oxek> shibboleth: personal experience, so take that into account
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2191 [21:42:41] <oxek> things may change if it is not well documented
2192 [21:43:19] <oxek> if you want, create a new file-based container and test it out
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2194 [21:43:50] <oxek> pretty sure it stays mounted and is fully accessible for rw after lukserase
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2205 [21:52:06] <de-facto> any idea where a file S.gpg-agent.ssh can come from? i get an error on trying to backport the newest limnoria sources to stretch
2206 [21:52:26] <de-facto> that string is not anywhere in the sources
2207 [21:52:47] <de-facto> nor in the invoking bash from dkpg-buildpackage -us -uc
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2210 [21:53:26] <gry> de-facto: id suggest to ask #limnoria maybe
2211 [21:54:02] <de-facto> i did they suspect pybuild on that one
2212 [21:54:04] <de-facto> FileNotFoundError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'S.gpg-agent.ssh'
2213 [21:54:17] <de-facto> os.unlink(name, dir_fd=topfd)
2214 [21:54:35] <greycat> googling S.gpg-agent.ssh gives me replaced-url
2215 [21:55:15] <de-facto> yeah its something like that, but where would it come from ?
2216 [21:55:29] <de-facto> SSH_AUTH_SOCK is empty in my bash env
2217 [21:56:11] <greycat> that's for an ssh agent, not a gpg agent
2218 [21:56:52] <de-facto> not containing env | grep S.gpg-agent.ssh
2219 [21:57:07] <de-facto> also no symlink or such with that name in the sources tree
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2221 [21:57:13] <TanaPanda> Hello
2222 [21:57:21] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2223 [21:57:28] <TanaPanda> I am having an issue with the netwroking with a raspberry pi
2224 [21:57:37] <TanaPanda> I set a static route using
2225 [21:57:45] <greycat> I mean, it's in ~/.gnupg/ right? It's clearly from gpg. Ask the #gnupg channel if you can't figure it out from the docs.
2226 [21:57:53] <TanaPanda> sudo nano /lib/dhcpcd/dhcpcd-hooks/40-route
2227 [21:58:05] <TanaPanda> and then i need to connect to a hidden ssid so i c=make these changes
2228 [21:58:15] <psusi> it's *from* gpg, but it is *for* ssh to connect to when SSH_AUTH_SOCK points to it
2229 [21:58:21] <TanaPanda> sudo nano /etc/network/interfaces
2230 [21:58:25] <TanaPanda> ssid="insert_your_hidden_SSID_here"
2231 [21:58:30] <TanaPanda> once i do this though mhy eth0 route stops working
2232 [21:58:33] <TanaPanda> any thoughts
2233 [21:58:40] <de-facto> greycat, yes possibly, yet for my root user that file is not present in ~/gnupg/
2234 [21:58:56] <greycat> well duh, why would *anything* be in the /root/ directory
2235 [21:59:32] <greycat> you're not working as root, or as vladputin, so there won't be any files created in ~root or ~vladputin
2236 [21:59:43] <psusi> what exactly are you running that is trying to unlink the socket?
2237 [21:59:50] <psusi> only gpg-agent should ever be doing that
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2239 [22:01:41] <de-facto> yeah normally would not use root account
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2241 [22:04:09] *** Joins: Eduard_Munteanu (~Eduard_Mu@replaced-ip )
2242 [22:05:39] <andypoenas> hola, free secure encrypted connection: replaced-url
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2246 [22:07:38] <de-facto> psusi, i am logged into my Debian Stretch server via ssh, changed my bash session with sudo su and running dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc
2247 [22:07:58] <greycat> You are NOT supposed to build debs as root.
2248 [22:08:12] <greycat> that's why you type "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc"
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2250 [22:08:41] *** Parts: nickodd (~nickodd@replaced-ip ) ()
2251 [22:08:44] <greycat> and that's probably outdated/legacy anyway, maybe the -rfakeroot is automatic now or something
2252 [22:08:57] <psusi> also don't "sudo su"... if you want a root shell from sudo, run sudo -s.. no need to run su
2253 [22:09:17] <de-facto> yes ok, i can do all that, but is that causative for that error?
2254 [22:10:07] <psusi> likely... use fakeroot and see if it works
2255 [22:11:39] *** Joins: gribouille (~rrrrrr@replaced-ip )
2256 [22:11:49] <gribouille> hi
2257 [22:11:50] *** Quits: psusi (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 27.1))
2258 [22:12:35] <de-facto> ok lets see
2259 [22:13:25] *** Quits: ml| (~ml|@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2260 [22:13:59] <gribouille> apt list --installed tells if a package was installed automatically. the information is not the same as the one in /var/lib/apt/extended_states. what does it mean?
2261 [22:14:50] <greycat> am I allowed to say that it means that apt's concept of "manual" or "auto" is a complete joke?
2262 [22:15:19] <gribouille> greycat, how do you know that?
2263 [22:15:47] *** Joins: dftxbs3e (~dftxbs3e@replaced-ip )
2264 [22:16:10] <greycat> just hang out here for a few years and watch all the people who try to do *anything* at all with apt's auto/manual, and how it always fails because A is "incorrectly" marked auto or B is "incorrectly" marked manual
2265 [22:17:13] <gribouille> greycat, but why are packages marked "incorrectly"?
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2267 [22:18:05] *** Joins: S4NDM4NN (~S4NDM4NN@replaced-ip )
2268 [22:18:06] <oxek> people groan the most that the packages from initial installation are marked as 'manual'
2269 [22:18:33] *** Quits: Decobus (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
2270 [22:18:37] <greycat> Yeah, that's one of the big ones.
2271 [22:18:59] <b_jonas> where are even the logs for my X.org session? I can't find them
2272 [22:19:10] <greycat> !xorg.0.log
2273 [22:19:10] <dpkg> Xorg.0.log is in /var/log/ unless you are on stretch-or-later and running X as non-root. Then it's in ~/.local/share/xorg/ instead.
2274 [22:19:16] <de-facto> oh that looks promising...
2275 [22:19:21] <b_jonas> ah thanks
2276 [22:19:36] <de-facto> it worked, wow
2277 [22:19:57] <de-facto> how come that it failed as root without -rfakeroot
2278 [22:20:09] *** Joins: XsiSec (~xsisec@replaced-ip )
2279 [22:20:10] <greycat> because you are NOT supposed to build debs as root
2280 [22:20:15] *** Joins: Decobus (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2281 [22:20:16] <b_jonas> well that does mention that it's found a keyboard and mouse
2282 [22:20:19] <de-facto> ok ok but why?
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2284 [22:20:37] *** Quits: nt1036 (~nt1036@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2285 [22:20:47] <jhutchins> gribouille: It's recomended/requested that you NOT cross-post troubleshooting requests to both networks.
2286 [22:21:02] <de-facto> the root env not suitable for that? afaik thats how all those Ci/CD run the build jobs
2287 [22:21:20] <greycat> what idiot set those up that way?
2288 [22:21:21] <de-facto> i am not trying to debate, just to understand
2289 [22:22:16] <b_jonas> oh wait
2290 [22:22:39] <jhutchins> greycat: Is there a decent current guide to building pakages? The last updated one I saw is pretty obsolete these days.
2291 [22:23:01] <b_jonas> it says "No input driver specified, ignoring this device." and "This device may have been added with another device file." for every device, including keyboard and mouse
2292 [22:23:20] <b_jonas> I don't know why that is, but that's at least one step
2293 [22:23:38] <greycat> !nmg
2294 [22:23:38] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
2295 [22:23:51] *** Quits: Steeve (~steve@replaced-ip ) (Quit: end)
2296 [22:24:31] <b_jonas> I might be missing some package that I should have installed for X, I'll look in the package manager
2297 [22:25:22] *** Quits: shokohsc (~shokohsc@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
2298 [22:25:47] <gribouille> jhutchins, are the two networks related?
2299 [22:25:53] <b_jonas> is there one of these top-level packages that depends on all the things recommended to have a local X sessoin?
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2302 [22:26:32] <de-facto> thank you i would not have found that one without trying to run it as normal user (and i would not have tried that)
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2304 [22:26:56] <jhutchins> gribouille: Not really. Debian "moved" to oftc, which has several more semi-official channels, but freenode remains the post popular.
2305 [22:27:11] <jhutchins> s/post/most
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2308 [22:28:23] <jhutchins> gribouille: The main problem is if you get someone trying to help you in each channel, they may take different paths and you can't respond to both politely and without lag.
2309 [22:28:53] <b_jonas> yes, and it's called xorg. I'll try that.
2310 [22:29:43] <jhutchins> greycat: Thx.
2311 [22:29:48] <b_jonas> sorry but I'll probably need to do reboot a few more times and will disconnect you
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2313 [22:30:05] <gribouille> jhutchins, anyway, it's quite unlikely I'll get an answer on both channels at the same time
2314 [22:30:25] <b_jonas> much better! there's now keyboard and mouse support
2315 [22:30:32] <b_jonas> there's still graphics junk tohugh
2316 [22:30:33] <jhutchins> gribouille: Actually, it happens fairly often.
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2319 [22:30:42] <b_jonas> greycat: thanks
2320 [22:30:54] <b_jonas> let me reboot
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2325 [22:33:54] <gribouille> jhutchins, I did that to maximize the possibility of getting an answer
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2328 [22:35:13] <b_jonas> and after rebooting, it looks like I'm no longer getting the video glitch either
2329 [22:35:25] <b_jonas> sorry, I know this was a stupis problem
2330 [22:35:36] <b_jonas> now I'll have to configure stuff
2331 [22:35:37] <Ede|Popede> !nvz
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2333 [22:36:08] <b_jonas> I think I made the exact same mistake at some other installation, but with very different symptoms that time
2334 [22:36:24] <b_jonas> (as in, the X server silently didn't start)
2335 [22:37:14] <gribouille> how can I boot my computer if I have forgotten my passwords?
2336 [22:39:16] <oxek> gribouille: assuming you use grub as your bootloader, use init=/bin/sh and then once loaded issue passwd to change root password
2337 [22:39:28] <b_jonas> oh crap, I spoke too soon
2338 [22:39:33] <b_jonas> there is the graphical glitch atain
2339 [22:39:34] <b_jonas> again
2340 [22:43:03] <gribouille> oxek, I did it on buster under Virtualbox and it triggered a kernel panic
2341 [22:43:18] <oxek> gribouille: it will trigger a kernel panic on exit
2342 [22:43:24] <oxek> i.e. once you close the shell
2343 [22:43:31] <oxek> that's to be expected
2344 [22:43:35] <gribouille> oxek, why?
2345 [22:43:43] <oxek> because you're using a shell as init system
2346 [22:44:02] <gribouille> oxek, but I don't get the shell
2347 [22:44:24] <oxek> you should. If you don't, then something went terribly wrong.
2348 [22:44:56] *** Joins: x000 (~x000@replaced-ip )
2349 [22:45:01] <oxek> and I mean terribly terribly, because if init=/bin/sh does not load a shell, then I have no idea what happened
2350 [22:46:16] <gribouille> oxek, I didn't do anything special
2351 [22:47:17] <oxek> not saying you did, it's just completely unexpected behavior
2352 [22:47:52] *** Quits: szorfein (~daggoth@replaced-ip ) (Quit: szorfein)
2353 [22:48:06] <b_jonas> ok, so I know this would be a workaround rather than a solution, but how do I configure what mode the framebuffer console uses?
2354 [22:48:08] *** Joins: ceska_ (~Cieska@replaced-ip )
2355 [22:48:16] <b_jonas> if I set it to a different resolution, the glitch would probably be healed
2356 [22:48:49] <b_jonas> btw, I could temporarily remove the glitch by changing the video mode in X, but then after a few tty switches between the X and text console it returned
2357 [22:49:25] <gribouille> oxek, ok, it worked with anoter vm, but it looks to me like a dirty hack
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2359 [22:50:20] <gribouille> with GRUB 1, it was possible to add the parameter "single", and everything was fine
2360 [22:50:47] <greycat> you can still do that, but single-user mode will ask for root's password
2361 [22:51:04] <greycat> if you don't know root's passwd, or if you never set one ("because I always sudo"), then you're stuck
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2365 [22:56:19] <jhutchins> !ifrp
2366 [22:56:20] <dpkg> For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
2367 [22:57:00] <oxek> that sounds very outdated
2368 [22:57:10] <greycat> does it work
2369 [22:57:20] <gribouille> if there is a kernel panic, the root file system won't be cleanly unmounted?
2370 [22:57:36] <greycat> so do step 5 before you induce a panic
2371 [22:58:06] *** Quits: Kyros (~kyros@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2372 [22:58:29] <jhutchins> b_jonas: It sounds as if may be a hardware problem if it's not consistent.
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2375 [23:00:13] <jhutchins> oxek: Some things don't change every week like systemd does.
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2381 [23:07:03] <oxek> jhutchins: unfortunately !ifrp referres to the pre-systemd way of doing things
2382 [23:08:04] <oxek> and what even is yaboot
2383 [23:09:23] <greycat> does... it... work?
2384 [23:12:09] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip )
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2386 [23:16:58] *** Quits: Merixer (~Merixer@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2395 [23:31:12] <gribouille> what is the best way to increase the number of lines in a virtual console?
2396 [23:31:21] *** Joins: sfvm (~sfvm@replaced-ip )
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2398 [23:37:10] *** Quits: martinus__ (~martin@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2399 [23:37:55] <hassoon> gribouille: zoom out
2400 [23:38:18] <gribouille> hassoon, what?
2401 [23:39:49] <oxek> gribouille: edit /etc/default/console-setup and run setupcon
2402 [23:41:49] <gribouille> oxek, what do I have to change in /etc/default/console-setup?
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2409 [23:47:47] <oxek> gribouille: probably SCREEN_WIDTH and SCREEN_HEIGHT, info should be in man console-setup
2410 [23:48:14] <oxek> might also require changing the font
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2413 [23:49:46] <aLinux`> hey all. what drivers should i use on buster with rtx 2080 ti ?
2414 [23:49:56] <gribouille> oxek, SCREEN_WIDTH and SCREEN_HEIGHT don't seem to be relevant ; the manual says : "The screen size can not exceed what the current screen resolution can display according to the size of the loaded font."
2415 [23:49:58] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2416 [23:50:00] <aLinux`> apt install nvidia-drivers ?
2417 [23:50:27] <oxek> gribouille: hence need to play with VIDEO mode too then
2418 [23:50:50] <jmcnaught> aLinux`: there are instructions here: replaced-url
2419 [23:51:33] <oxek> aLinux`: install nvidia-detect package and it will tell you which driver to install
2420 [23:51:47] <oxek> you probably need to get nvidia-detect from buster-backports given your card
2421 [23:51:53] <aLinux`> ohh cool so i see there is driver 440
2422 [23:52:02] <aLinux`> 450 is latest
2423 [23:52:37] *** Quits: blebz (~blebz@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2424 [23:53:02] *** Quits: sfvm (~sfvm@replaced-ip ) (Quit: off to the basement, mixing up the medicine)
2425 [23:53:16] <aLinux`> oxek, its buster-backports needed ?
2426 [23:53:39] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
2427 [23:53:49] *** Quits: banox (~banox@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2428 [23:54:33] <nvz> ,v nvidia-driver
2429 [23:54:34] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.132-1; stretch/non-free: 390.138-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 418.74-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 418.152.00-1; buster-backports/non-free: 440.100-1~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 450.66-1; sid/non-free: 450.66-1
2430 [23:54:47] <oxek> aLinux`: definitely
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2433 [23:55:41] <aLinux`> oxek, thank you. should i upgrade kernel ?
2434 [23:55:54] <aLinux`> from 4.19
2435 [23:56:01] <oxek> probably not necessary
2436 [23:56:34] <aLinux`> im using a destop with 2700x ryzen and 2080ti
2437 [23:56:38] <nvz> if you DO use a kernel from backports however, you would also need the headers for that kernel
2438 [23:57:11] <nvz> and should also use the firmware-* packages for anything you have that needs such packages from backports
2439 [23:57:46] <aLinux`> nvz, i understand. ill keep it stock 4.19
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