1[00:00:15] <mutante> alexrelis[m]: also i would recommend to replace Google Authenticator with Authy app. it will work whereever Google Authenticator works but you can have a backup which is encrypted with your own key. so you can move to another device if you lost your phone
2[00:00:37] <mutante> (and have backup codes/restore passphrase saved elsewhere)
54[00:38:57] <alexrelis[m]> cluonbeam: Hmm.. But isn't the whole point of OTP the ability to authenticate with a secondary device if that makes sense? If somebody has access to your master key, then they have access to everything. If you made sure your OTP was only stored on your phone (or a single device) and only made backup codes on paper, then if an attacker had access to your password manager, they would also need access to your phone, or
55[00:38:57] <alexrelis[m]> access to wherever you stored those recovery codes to get in.
62[00:49:04] <cluonbeam> alexrelis[m]: But they don't have access to everything. The Bitwarden DB requires 2FA to decrypt. Without my Yubikey, you have squat.
63[00:49:09] <cluonbeam> Yubikey AND passphrase.
64[00:49:54] <cluonbeam> So, sure, take my phone. Good luck. You'll need it.
65[00:50:27] <alexrelis[m]> Hmmm.. I might need one of those Yubikeys then, haha.
66[00:50:45] *** Quits: fax (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
96[01:14:05] <sney> when you get that error, you can hit alt-f4 to see the info console, where it might give you more useful details as to why the installer couldn't create the filesystem.
98[01:15:00] <sney> if you don't want a raid, that's fine, but it shouldn't stop you from installing to sda normally. your partition layout is a little oddball but should be fully supported.
99[01:15:50] <sney> the detected raid devices in your screenshot are not being changed by the installer so they have nothing to do with the problem
100[01:16:21] <oxek> 'wipefs' would be my tool of choice
101[01:16:52] <sney> that's nice, but wipefs is not included in the installer environment and this is an installer problem.
102[01:18:29] <sney> and in any case: according to those screenshots, sda is a 240GB ssd with no pre-existing raid metadata, and sda is the only disk where changes are being made. the raid is a red herring, and irrelevant
110[01:21:29] <sney> dka: how many physical disks does this system have?
111[01:21:33] <dka> 1
112[01:21:42] <oxek> my understanding is that there are only 2 storage devices - the ssd and the flash drive. The ssd contains old RAID metadata at the beggining of the drive, which debian installer uses to display those RAID entries, and then tries to create MBR & partitions.
113[01:21:45] <sney> sigh, so the raid members are partitions on the disk.
114[01:21:46] <oxek> this will of course fail
115[01:21:59] <oxek> hence, the ssd needs to be wiped
116[01:22:10] <dka> how
117[01:22:19] <sney> just the beginning, which wipefs would do, if you had it in that environment.
118[01:22:24] <oxek> dka: are you in the installer enviroment right now?
119[01:22:31] <sney> you should be able to select each of those entries in partman and delete them through the menus.
120[01:22:35] <dka> yes
121[01:22:47] <dka> i already tried
122[01:22:55] <dka> how can i exit alt+f4?
123[01:23:01] <sney> alt-f1
124[01:23:06] <oxek> dka: run blkdiscard /dev/sda
125[01:23:11] <dka> how can I run think?
126[01:23:17] <sney> alt-f2 and f3 would take you to consoles where you can run things.
127[01:23:41] <dka> blkdiscard: cant open /dev/sda device or resource busy
128[01:24:38] <oxek> reboot the machine and run that command again
129[01:25:04] <oxek> before you reach the partitioning step of the installation
130[01:27:01] <dka> blkdiscard /dev/sda now hang
131[01:27:20] <oxek> give it time
132[01:27:25] <dka> and succeeded without any output
133[01:27:26] <oxek> about a minute
134[01:27:35] <oxek> the disk is now blank
135[01:27:40] <oxek> you can proceed with the installation
209[01:51:23] <cluonbeam> Android also supports use via NFC, so you could get the 5C if you're fine with USB-C only, or the 5 and use NFC for your Android and USB for everything else.
210[01:52:06] <cluonbeam> They're SUPPOSEDLY coming out with a USB-C+NFC version "eventually(tm)".
211[01:52:32] <another> double pro tip: alias ipa='ip -color=auto -brief address'
212[01:53:07] *** Quits: pkx (~pkx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
213[01:55:54] <oxek> another: nice tips, do you have a list somewhere?
237[02:03:04] <jhutchins> So how many systems are you going to log in to that don't have bash, if not as the default shell, then at least as available?
238[02:03:04] *** Quits: FuzzyByte (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
240[02:04:28] <jhutchins> When the number of your $HOME directories starts to approach four figures, keeping everything as close to the installed defaults starts to seem like a good idea.
250[02:09:23] <jhutchins> oxek: I know of people who have a shell script on some git server that goes through and does all of their customization.
251[02:10:15] <jhutchins> Years ago though, I was asked to sit down at a workstation and do a fairly simple task, and I was so used to all of my shortcuts and customizations it took me 15 minutes just to get to the task.
252[02:11:02] <jhutchins> It depends on what kind of environment you work in. If you're in the industry, three years is a long time.
253[02:12:19] <jhutchins> Then there was the time I was tasked to do a skills assesment, and the keyboard had been left set to Hungarian. (Didn't get that one.)
271[02:42:31] *** Joins: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip)
272[02:42:31] *** Quits: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
273[02:44:28] <jhutchins> CyberManifest: Unless you've done something strange with your system you shouldn't have to.
274[02:44:53] <CyberManifest> jhutchins: I'm building a frankenmachine
275[02:45:08] <CyberManifest> jhutchins: so in a way I have done something strange with my system
276[02:45:17] <jhutchins> Ok. I was just going to ask how you'd dug this hole, but there it is.
277[02:45:28] *** Joins: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip)
278[02:45:29] *** Quits: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
279[02:45:49] <jhutchins> Let's try this, it might have a clue:
280[02:45:51] *** Joins: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip)
281[02:45:52] <CyberManifest> jhutchins: honestly I don't have any problems presently, I just wish to add that key and in the process learn about it
282[02:45:52] <jhutchins> !ssb
283[02:45:52] *** Quits: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
284[02:45:53] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
285[02:46:10] *** Quits: kreyren (~kreyren@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
286[02:46:13] *** Joins: Louis (~Louis@replaced-ip)
287[02:46:14] <jhutchins> !key
288[02:46:14] <dpkg> Install the latest debian-archive-keyring package to get the latest GPG key used to sign the Debian archive.
295[02:47:40] <CyberManifest> jhutchins: first I'm not wanting to add back ports, second, I've already installed debin-archive-keyring package but I'd like that Official Key and not the Archive
296[02:48:01] <jhutchins> There's at least one factoid that has the command string to download and add the key, but I'm not sure what it is and I don't want to spew 20 factoids to find it.
297[02:48:44] <CyberManifest> !gpg key
298[02:48:50] <jhutchins> CyberManifest: I know, I was hunting for the random factoid that has both steps. Hit cluonbeam's link.
300[02:50:44] <CyberManifest> jhutchins: cluonbeam, again that's in regards to standard archive keys I'd like to add the encrypted key replaced-url
301[02:51:17] <cluonbeam> Read the manual, and follow the steps.
302[02:51:28] <cluonbeam> Apply what you've learned. Critical thinking. You want to learn, I'm not going to hand you the answer.
303[02:51:55] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: that manual refers to specific key numbers and not an encrypted .asc
304[02:52:24] <cluonbeam> I know exactly what it refers to, but everything you need is in that document.
305[02:53:01] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: which man ?
306[02:53:47] <cluonbeam> Read through the very brief section that you were linked to. There's only two commands listed.
307[02:53:59] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: that's a wiki not a man
308[02:54:10] <CyberManifest> thanks for trying to confuse me more
309[02:54:21] <cluonbeam> Again, I know that. But "there are two commands listed" means that the man page for ONE of those commands has what you're looking for.
310[02:54:51] <cluonbeam> You come in here stating that you literally intend to build a frankenbox, which is unsupported in this channel, and that you want to learn. So I'm nudging you as much as you ought to be, and you're complaining.
311[02:55:03] <cluonbeam> I could take the channel hard-line rules route and say "frankenboxes are unsupported, have a nice life."
312[02:58:45] <CyberManifest> what an egregious obfuscated mess; also *unsupported* and here I thought there was camaraderie in freedom of choice in the Linux community
313[02:59:00] *** Quits: FuzzyByte (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
314[02:59:44] <CyberManifest> guess I'll switch to arch where things are easier and better supported and more helpful
332[03:07:44] <cluonbeam> I am giggling like a schoolgirl at the idea that that kind of handholding is going to be offered in #archlinux of all places.
333[03:07:45] <CyberManifest> For anyone else needing help with the same question I had; I found my answer at: replaced-url
334[03:08:02] <cluonbeam> Wow, so you CAN help yourself. Will wonders never cease?
335[03:08:18] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: their wiki is a better handholding than the obfuscated mess that debian is
336[03:08:28] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: yeah and without a man
337[03:08:42] <cluonbeam> "obfuscated" == "can't figure out man apt-key"
338[03:08:54] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: so again you were less than helpful
339[03:08:56] <cluonbeam> Or even read it.
340[03:09:12] <CyberManifest> apt-key is deprecated
341[03:09:27] <CyberManifest> if says so during use
342[03:09:30] <CyberManifest> even*
343[03:10:06] <CyberManifest> cluonbeam: it's obvious you don't have a clue
344[03:10:36] <cluonbeam> It's obvious we have a very different definition for the word "obvious." ;)
345[03:10:38] <cluonbeam> Have fun.
346[03:12:08] <cluonbeam> I figured that that option would have been easier for you to follow than managing a gpg keyring in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d, but... that's what I get for trying to do something nice.
366[03:23:52] *** stefanc_diff_ is now known as stefanc_diff
367[03:24:30] <oxek> I don't want to read either, but when I end up having to do it, I'd rather save others time by telling them what I learned.
368[03:24:52] <oxek> this simple 'mechanical' knowledge should be distributed
369[03:25:00] <cluonbeam> The guy came in demanding to be handheld while stating openly that he was doing something to his system that we don't support.
370[03:25:02] <oxek> so that people can spend time on 'harder' problems instead
371[03:25:10] <cluonbeam> The CORRECT path would have been to tell him that what he's doing is unsupported, bye.
372[03:25:14] <cluonbeam> So, let's move on.
373[03:25:19] <oxek> oh, I didn't read that far
374[03:25:35] <cluonbeam> CyberManifest | jhutchins: I'm building a frankenmachine
375[03:26:05] <oxek> to be fair, what is the best place to ask for help with frankendebians?
376[03:26:09] *** Quits: alaskabear93 (~alaskabea@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
377[03:26:14] <cluonbeam> ##linux?
378[03:26:21] <oxek> yeah, you're right
379[03:26:25] <somiaj> most likely no one wants to support that
399[03:44:40] <CyberManifest> since apt-key is deprecated what is the gpg equivalent of 'apt-key list' when I do 'gpg --list-keys' it made a pubring.kbx but didn't list any keys even when I ran it a second time... neither did 'gpg --list-secret-keys'
400[03:46:31] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
405[03:50:42] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone, there is a feature to move a window with the alt key, my debian mate has no settings for this in the shortcuts. how is the other program called where i can change such settings ? they are in a hirarchy like org.gnome. etc but i can't recall the name
577[08:22:22] <kline> diogenes_: see also my post from august: replaced-url
578[08:23:25] <diogenes_> lol Socrates looks nice, even after the poison :)
579[08:24:02] <n4dir> at the top wiki.debian.org mentions three drivers : *mach64 and *video-r128 and *radeon. radeon seems to be used. So i guess i need one of the other two, but how to figure out which one?
580[08:24:11] <kline> lets make a slight adjustment to the canon and call it nightshade: replaced-url
605[09:08:18] <ym> Hi. I have a little issue with pppd. It starts at bootup ok, journal also says everything is fine - local and remote addresses allocated, but "ip a l dev ppp0" command doesn't shows any addresses allocated and internets aren't pingable. Workaround "systemctl restart networking" works, but I want to figure out, what's the problem. Any suggestions?
606[09:09:25] *** Quits: fax (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
607[09:15:32] <ym> Interfaces configuration is this:
619[09:32:00] <shtrb> Good morning , does anyone have a clue how to solve "usb_modeswitch_dispatcher[34997]: Dispatcher for 'usb_modeswitch'; usually run by udev, not intended for interactive operation" message loop ?
639[09:48:44] *** Quits: mandeep (uid394387@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
640[09:49:14] <shtrb> Anyone who still remember udev rules can say if ATTRS{idVendor}=="XXX", ATTRS{idProduct}=="YYYY", RUN+="usb_modeswitch '%b/%k'" is wrong for modern udev/systemd (buster and up) ?
648[09:55:50] <shtrb> ym, didn't see your previous question, but you do know that you might be using networkd and as such that file is not handeld at all ?
649[09:56:05] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
662[10:05:20] <shtrb> ym, if you didn't answer that before , does using pon rostelekom (you should have file /etc/ppp/peers/rostelekom and proper chap-secrets for it) work for you ?
665[10:06:56] <ym> I have /etc/ppp/peers/rostelekom and proper chap-secrets for it. The issue is that my configuration works only after systemctl restart networking and not after startup, though logs telling me everything just fine.
681[10:21:35] <ym> Seems like replacing "auto rostelekom" to the top of interfaces file solved the issue I described earlier. Thanks everyone for suggestions.
742[11:40:23] <melissa_> I want the freedom to not install updates for years. If I have my apt sources pointing to testing, and I don't install updates for, say, 3 years, is there a significant chance my system breaks?
743[11:40:23] *** Quits: unlike (~deb@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
744[11:40:45] *** Quits: deb (~deb@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
746[11:42:05] <ratrace> melissa_: all software has bugs, sooner or later. if you're lucky and can run 3 years with no _need_ to apply an update, then all is well. but if (more likely) you end up needing an update, you're setting yourself for big fail unless you run stable.
747[11:42:19] <melissa_> And what if I have them pointed to Bullseye, a few more releases come out, and I follow the regular upgrade path of doing apt-get update / system-upgrade and change my sources to the next release until I arrive at the new stable. Is that more or less likely to give problems?
748[11:42:51] <ratrace> !xy
749[11:42:51] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
750[11:43:55] <melissa_> I want to install GNU on a computer that I might not use for years, and then start using again, with little maintenance
751[11:44:34] <ratrace> you're more likely to achieve that with _stable_ rather than testing
752[11:45:05] <JPT> If you never connect it to the internet, it is at least /somewhat/ safe to stick with one installation and never update it.
753[11:45:27] <JPT> If you're going to connect it to the internet, i would always urge you to keep it up to date
754[11:45:30] <ratrace> as current stable becomes oldstable, 3 years from now you should be able to start usign it again and apply only bugfix and security updates. _sometimes_, but that's rare, they might introduce incompatibilities, esp. over longer time spans, but that's unlikely
756[11:46:38] <melissa_> How so? Because at one point Bullseye will become stable. So if I install that (and point sources to bullseye rather than testing), won't it just take longer until my system gets outdated?
757[11:47:02] <ratrace> and overtime as oldstable becomes oldoldstable, like today it's still possible to run wheezy or jessie, and there's that "debian LTS" project or whatsitcalled where certain contributors keep maintaining oldoldstable with _some_ security fixes
758[11:47:24] <ratrace> melissa_: becuse right now bullseye is not stable and it may change until freeze and release in incompatible ways
759[11:47:46] <ratrace> also, if ou install bullseye _now_ and then reactive that in 3 years, I don't think there will even exist an upgrade path
760[11:48:09] <melissa_> I see
761[11:48:39] <ratrace> most notable upcoming change is depreciation and removal of python2 for example
762[11:49:10] <ratrace> ("upcoming" in terms of what bullseye will have compared to buster)
763[11:49:48] <melissa_> nooo
764[11:49:51] <melissa_> don't remove python 2
765[11:50:12] <ratrace> it's dead. bereft of life. it ceased to be. it's an ex python.
766[11:50:41] <nkuttler> python2 is gone from sid
767[11:50:58] <nkuttler> shouldn't remove it from a stable system though
776[11:54:03] <gry> melissa_: it is a wiki, if you sign up <replaced-url
777[11:54:07] <ratrace> melissa_: I don't think they specifically recommend to use contrib and non-free, versus not using them at all. That's just an example sources.list
779[11:54:41] <melissa_> Yeah but if people copy/paste that, they will add contrib and non-free even if they didn't have it before
780[11:55:25] <ratrace> and nothing bad will happen with that. also people should NOT copy&paste from internet into terminals wihtout understanding the code they're pasting
781[11:55:40] <flayer> i've been doing it wrong all these years!
782[11:56:05] <melissa_> So would this upgrade path work? Buster -> LTS, and after June 2024, do an upgrade path to whatever will be stable by that time?
783[11:56:30] <ratrace> I don't think skipping stable releases is a supported upgrade path
784[11:56:48] <melissa_> I mean the regular upgrade path, without skipping any
785[11:56:55] <ratrace> so you will have to go from buster to bullseye to debian-next-next
793[12:00:46] <brutser> I have put a line in fstab to mount an SD card, this works fine, but when the SD card is not present, it makes boot wait 150 seconds or so for the SD card, is there some way I can tell fstab to not bother when SD card is not there? or should I do this not with fstab if i want this?
794[12:01:18] <ratrace> brutser: yes, use "nofail" option in the fstab line
795[12:01:42] <brutser> ah ok :) so nofail says, if it's not there, don't bother?
796[12:01:59] <ratrace> right
797[12:02:14] <brutser> ok thanks!
798[12:02:49] *** Quits: brutser (574149f0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
872[12:34:48] <jelly> melissa_, LTS is mostly just and extenstion of security support for a release. going with buster and then buster-lts, you still have the usual buster->buster+1 release upgrade path
876[12:37:20] <jelly> (and offtopically, ubuntu seem to have some issues with that, going from 18.04 LTS to 20.04 LTS is STILL not ready, even though 18.04.1 was out last month)
888[12:39:49] <jelly> and canonical giving up on their Unity thing which was rather nice
889[12:39:50] <ratrace> and more ontopically, I've always had success with debian stable upgrades. there might be issues with backported packages, and third party repos.
896[12:42:51] <jelly> going sysvinit->systemd from 7 to 8 was a lot less problematic than introducing udev 4->5
897[12:43:22] <jelly> 7->8 was mostly upstream stuff, apache 2.2 -> 2.4 changes and such
898[12:43:54] <ratrace> there's of course more chance of something going wrong, the more diverse you made your installation in term of packages. but for ubuntu, I've had issues with base installation upgrades, ie. install 16.04 -> upgrade -> do-release-upgrade -> boom
899[12:44:22] <ratrace> wheezy to jessie surprised me too. I was expecting issues due to init change, yes, but it was just fine
900[12:46:08] <ratrace> I wonder if python2 removall will mess up buster->bullseye upgrade
901[12:46:48] <jelly> you don't have to remove obsolete packages if you don't want to
910[12:55:06] <no_gravity> You can configure git diff colors with values like #ff0000 for red etc. But those don't work when inside screen. Any ideas why and how to make them work?
934[13:08:13] <ratrace> bots here really are stupid... they should be made to trigger on explicit keywords. bug #... and not just #... dpkg reacting to ! only, not every sentence starting with dpkg (which is rather not uncommon in a Debian support channel with "dpkg2 being the primary package manager)
935[13:08:49] <ratrace> no_gravity: I'm not 100% sure but I think with 256 color terminals you don't have the option of specifying random rgb value
936[13:09:10] <no_gravity> ratrace: Why does my terminal outside of screen support it then?
937[13:09:26] <diogenes_> Greg Kroah-Hartman said tha Debian runs the world.
938[13:09:44] <ratrace> no_gravity: I don't know. approximation? or do oyu actually get 4 billion colors?
939[13:10:35] <no_gravity> ratrace: I would have to make screenshots with slightly different colors and compare them in gimp ...
940[13:11:21] <no_gravity> Let me do i t...
941[13:11:23] <no_gravity> Let me do it...
942[13:11:24] <ratrace> no_gravity: right. well, I don't know. I misread your original question thinking you need just regular color support, but I'm not familiar with supplying full 32-bit range of colors, sorry.
1024[14:06:24] <SPARC-Corgi> Meh ppc port is kinda glitchy don't think it would matter much anyways. Probably just gonna try a raid card if I can find one
1085[15:33:23] <dvs> blurkis, #debian-next on OFTC
1086[15:34:38] <blurkis> dvs: thanks. (But I solved it, for some reason kde started a mysql instance as $user and installing mariadb would not install without me personally killing that instance.
1112[15:58:22] <n4dir> though the output of lspci also also has: 01:05.1 Display controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RS480 [Radeon Xpress 1150] (Secondary)
1124[16:05:55] <ElDiabolo> I have 2 desktop systems where I just did an upgrade. On one of the thunderbird is on 68.12.0-1~deb10u1, on the other it is 68.10.0-1~deb10u1. Both are amd64. How can I find the cause.
1165[16:33:32] <oxek> imo this is how debian sources.list should look like by default replaced-url
1166[16:33:49] <ElDiabolo> oxek, I just checked my online system, this has security updates :-).
1167[16:33:52] <shtrb> Does anyone have a clue where kdeconnect store it's sms db (even if it store locally) ? tried "find . -name *kdeconnect* -print | grep -vvv hexchat | xargs" which gave me ./.cache/kdeconnect.app ./.cache/kdeconnect.sms ./.config/kde.org/kdeconnect.app.conf ./.config/kdeconnect ./.config/kdeconnect/MACID/kdeconnect_pausemusic ./.config/kdeconnect/MACID kdeconnect_runcommand ./.config/kdeconnect/MACID/kdeconnect_sendnotifications ./.local/share/kpeoplevcar
1168[16:33:53] <shtrb> d/kdeconnect-MACID but none of these location seem to store anything that I could identify as some kind of a db.
1172[16:36:07] <somiaj> buster-updates is more optional than security-updates though, it just gives you access to some packages before they are merged in a point release.
1173[16:36:56] <oxek> 'optional' but if you don't have buster-updates, then you're on old ca-certificates and thus have lots of web breakage due to that major root CA expiration
1199[17:00:51] <chrisw> Just upgraded a machine to buster, and it seems to now be requesting (and getting) a new ip address via dhcp every few seconds. Any ideas what might have happened and how I could fix this?
1200[17:02:18] *** Quits: amlchief (~amlchief@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1204[17:10:26] <somiaj> chrisw: what do you use to configure your network?
1205[17:11:11] <chrisw> @somiaj: not sure I understand the question, the dhcp server is a UDMP Pro with a static ip assigned for this device, which was working fine up until the buster upgrade
1206[17:11:22] <chrisw> UDM Pro, even
1207[17:11:59] <chrisw> also just noticed the root fs has come up read only, which isn't ideal... wonder why that might be?
1208[17:12:37] <somiaj> debian provides multiple tools, the interfaces file, network-manager, wicd, and other ways to configure the network. Which one are you using?
1211[17:13:12] <somiaj> hmm, it could be the read only part of the file system causing the issue since dhcp can't write its lease file. I would track down why that is happening. Did it fail an fsck?
1212[17:13:20] <chrisw> @somiaj - no idea, I'm afraid, had this machine for years, have always just let upgrades do their thing, how would I check?
1213[17:13:22] <somiaj> might want to reboot into a live system and fsck the file system.
1214[17:13:42] <chrisw> dmesg now showing anything obvious for the fs, where else should I be looking?
1261[17:41:50] <oxek> linux-image-amd64 depends on linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64, and if you do 'apt show linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64' it will tell you it is 4.19.132
1268[17:48:37] <oxek> you only need a signed kernel if you have enabled secureboot on a UEFI system, and you can sign kernels yourself and put your key into the UEFI
1269[17:48:49] <oxek> on a bios system, all of that is irrelevant
1307[18:26:03] <chrisw> @oxek - cool, thanks, ifconfig has always "just worked", so use it, will try and re-train to `ip a` now :-)_
1308[18:26:44] <shtrb> Is using virt-manager to manage a dozen or so vms on a laptop is a waste of time and I should be using ovirt instead or it's not waste of time /resources ?
1309[18:26:47] <chrisw> hurrah! A real shell, not the crap HP's iLO offers...
1310[18:27:43] <ratrace> shtrb: it's just a frontend to libvirt and qemu. if it works for you and satisfies your needs, no need to use anything else.
1313[18:28:10] <ratrace> personally I prefer using qemu-system on the command line, but that's just my preference. at the end of the day, it's the same qemu in the background
1337[18:33:07] <oxek> so if they no longer care about it, or provide funding to the devs, it's essentially dead, no?
1338[18:33:16] <ratrace> virt-manager is the defacto linux-native response to virtualbox. cockpit is RHEL specific control panel. if RH abandons it and other distros/contributors don't pick up.... well...
1353[18:37:35] <chrisw> okay, so why would `systemctl restart networking` result in my interface being DOWN in `ip a` output?
1354[18:37:42] <ratrace> oh yes, that.... indeed I forgot about it
1355[18:38:07] <JyZyXEL> "to boost their near-term finances" at the expense of their future it sounds like :P
1356[18:38:16] <ratrace> chrisw: because restarting networking.service does ifdown+ifup. if your NIC is not configured in e/n/i or errors out, that will happen
1363[18:39:34] *** Quits: magyar (~magyar@replaced-ip) (Quit: Riding the split)
1364[18:39:39] <ratrace> chrisw: networking.service controls ifupdown framework which is configured by "e/n/i" which is usual abbrev for /etc/network/interfaces
1369[18:41:39] <chrisw> @shtrb - nothing magic here, simple two physical nics, which are still showing as eth0 and eth1, even after the stretch to buster upgrade
1370[18:42:01] <chrisw> (which seems to have gone badly wrong somewhere - the system boots up with a read-only root partition, and I'm still trying to find out why...)
1372[18:42:52] <chrisw> the read only root file system seems to cause the dhcp client to repeatedly renew its leases, which ends up configurin the UDM pro that's that dhcp server
1373[18:43:23] <ratrace> chrisw: if your rootfs mounts RO, there could be a filesystem corruption issue
1374[18:43:24] <chrisw> I can remount the fs rw just fine, which is also confusing... where/how do I configure the kernel boot command line?
1375[18:43:32] <ratrace> assuming of course it isn't misconfigured
1376[18:43:47] <chrisw> ratrace: don't think so, I suspect a misconfigure from upgrading stretch to buster
1377[18:43:49] <ratrace> chrisw: ah maybe you're missing a fstab entry for /
1378[18:43:53] <shtrb> In order to still have ethX you should have disabled predictable interfaces ( via kernel argument ) , if you have network fs that fail to load you might get into RO case
1379[18:44:14] <chrisw> @ratrace - I don't think so there either, everything is there and fine, just mounted ro
1380[18:44:31] <shtrb> *or via udev rules
1381[18:44:41] <ratrace> chrisw: then comb the logs, I'm sure there's a reason filed there somewhere
1382[18:45:34] <chrisw> @shtrb - I followed the stuff in replaced-url
1391[18:47:58] <chrisw> @shtrb - right, that answers that: udev has defs for eth0 and eth1 :-)
1392[18:48:13] <shtrb> chrisw, you can disable it (if you wish )
1393[18:48:19] <somiaj> chrisw: stil sounds like you need to boot into a live system and fsck your file system first
1394[18:48:49] <ratrace> chrisw: in some cases rootfs is mounted RO by initramfs, I don't remember if it's default or not (I have custom config, so can't check for default), and then one needs a fstab entry to remount rw. if you have that entry, then there must've been an error somehwere which must've been logged
1395[18:49:02] <shtrb> chrisw, and you might have done some systemd magic that might had broken your boot process.
1396[18:49:23] <oxek> shtrb: the name might be offensive to someone
1413[18:51:15] <chrisw> @ratrace - okay, so I wonder what changed as part of the stretch to buster upgrade? I did notice some stuff in the console relating to a volume group not being found, but it's still there, just mounted readonly
1414[18:51:47] <ratrace> somiaj: it's in final generated grub.cfg
1415[18:52:16] <chrisw> what's weird is if I run update-grub, I get `/usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig: 253: /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig: cannot create /boot/grub/grub.cfg.new: Directory nonexistent`, but I boot through a grub menu, so where's that coming from?
1416[18:52:26] <somiaj> oh there it is, yea that is where I found it, so must be something that should be remounting it int he boot process
1417[18:52:46] <shtrb> ratrace, I was wrong , it's was less crazy - replaced-url
1439[18:57:49] <chrisw> looking at the start of dmesg, I see [ 0.000000] Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.19.0-10-amd64 root=/dev/mapper/zuul--vg-root ro quiet - where is that coming from?
1440[18:57:50] <shtrb> chrisw, generated via os-probe and grub-update
1442[18:58:30] <ratrace> somiaj: I ran into that few years ago and remembered to always mention root in fstab (for filesystems that use fstab), but things may've changed since, in newer initramfs-tools
1443[18:59:39] <somiaj> might be if you don't have an fstab entry you need a .mount unit file (Since those are basically equivlant). I have never not had rootfs in fstab, so explains why I havn't ran across such a thing
1444[18:59:55] <chrisw> @shtrb - right, but like I said above, grub-update can't even find the directory it wants to write to...
1445[19:00:27] <somiaj> chrisw: output of ls /boot please (use a patebin)
1446[19:00:43] <ratrace> somiaj: I install debian with debootstrap, and it was in the early testing periods where I ran into that
1447[19:00:54] <MTecknology> I know creating a symlink in this way is the "wrong way", but I also don't understand how libraries work well enough to know how to solve this issue properly- replaced-url
1448[19:00:58] *** Quits: nickodd (~nickodd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1449[19:01:00] <MTecknology> original_path to diverted_path, the library is found.
1450[19:01:02] <shtrb> chrisw, I'm not sure about your setup but : 1. you can info at the UEFI, 2. you may have info already written in /boot
1451[19:01:02] <chrisw> @somiaj : `initrd.img-4.19.0-10-amd64` is all that's in there
1452[19:01:02] <ratrace> and yea, either fstab or a proper .mount (as fstab gets converted to .mount units anyway)
1453[19:01:27] <shtrb> is your /boot also on lvm ?
1454[19:01:30] <chrisw> @shtrb - I'm afraid I don't know what `you can info at the UEFI` means
1455[19:01:32] <ratrace> MTecknology: are you not installing steam from regular debian package?
1456[19:01:32] <somiaj> chrisw: did /boot use to be a seperate partition?
1457[19:01:49] <chrisw> @shtrb - yes, I think /boot is on lvm
1458[19:02:03] <shtrb> chrisw, typo , part of your boot infromation is stored at the UEFI (efivars ?) .
1459[19:02:13] <somiaj> chrisw: and somehow after the reboot /boot isn't being mounted correctly, because you should have more than the init image in there
1460[19:02:22] <chrisw> Not really sure why I'm on lvm, other than that some ancient debian upgrade probably told me I needed to do it
1461[19:02:23] <shtrb> chrisw, I don't know how /boot on lvm can normally boot into a working envoirment
1462[19:02:28] <MTecknology> ratrace: I installed it from the .deb they provided. The reason for the location of that steamui.so file is that /usr/bin/steam unpacks a bunch of stuff in the home directory and executes from there.
1463[19:02:38] <ratrace> MTecknology: "they"?
1464[19:02:48] <MTecknology> steam? valve?
1465[19:03:04] <ratrace> MTecknology: steam is a regular package on debian. use that. it's just a launcher anyway, and it installs latest from valve
1466[19:03:07] <ratrace> ,v steam
1467[19:03:08] <judd> No package named 'steam' was found in amd64.
1468[19:03:18] <chrisw> @somiaj - indeed, something has gone very screwy as a result of the stretch / buster upgrade - that said, this machine has been upgraded for probably a decade at least
1469[19:03:23] <ratrace> ,v steam:i386
1470[19:03:24] <judd> No package named 'steam:i386' was found in amd64.
1471[19:03:31] <ratrace> oh how do you operate this thing....
1492[19:09:34] <MTecknology> chrisw: fyi- in irc land, we follow $nick: $message. Highlights don't always work for twitter-style mentions and if you follow the convention, you can use tab-complete for it. such as mt<tab>
1515[19:15:10] <chrisw> anyway, bit dismayed to see /boot is ext2 - is that normal?!
1516[19:15:20] <shtrb> ratrace, p.d.n is down :-(
1517[19:15:57] *** Joins: metro (~metro@replaced-ip)
1518[19:16:05] <ratrace> many orbits ago, people would put /boot on ext2 to... I don't know... save a few cycles of performance once per boot by not haivng a journal there
1519[19:16:10] <chrisw> @shtrb - sorry to be pedantic, but in case anyone is able to fix that, it's missing a dns entry, whether the service is up or down we can't currently tell...
1520[19:16:43] <chrisw> ratrace - plausible then, okay, so how come if I ls /boot, there's just the one kernel image there?
1522[19:16:53] <chrisw> I definitely see a grub menu with a bunch of entries on it...
1523[19:17:14] <MTecknology> I still put /boot on ext2. I was told journaling is counter-productive for boot things.
1524[19:17:38] <ratrace> MTecknology: you were told wrong
1525[19:18:26] <somiaj> chrisw: almost sounds like your fstab was corrupted during the upgrade, since both / and /boot aren't there, might just need to remount everything properly and fix the fstab file
1526[19:18:28] <shtrb> ratrace, the non ext/fat32 /boot UEFI support is a recent thing
1528[19:19:38] <chrisw> somiaj - fstab looks fine (well, to me, am I missing something?): replaced-url
1529[19:19:48] <ratrace> shtrb: well if one wants to use ext2 for /boot, that's fine I suppose. the journaling and full features of ext4 don't in any way counter the productivity of /boot
1530[19:20:14] <ratrace> boils down to preference, and not a technical advantage
1532[19:20:49] <MTecknology> ratrace: It turned out to be very easy to get steam:i386 installed, but because I'm running frankian, the nvidia-driver-libs-i386:i386 package it said I should install is proving quite painful. :/
1533[19:21:14] <MTecknology> The joys of bleeding edge hardware... I have no external monitor support without the nvidia driver from experimental.
1534[19:21:17] <ratrace> wellp... had to be a reason we warn against frankendebians :)
1535[19:21:55] <shtrb> It's a great time to drop all pins , and move to the safety of testing :D
1551[19:24:45] <ratrace> yeah buster backports is all about 440.100
1552[19:25:20] <MTecknology> I guess the solution is to say screw the external monitor and drop back to 440. External monitor support is still pretty janky anyway.
1553[19:25:33] <chrisw> somiaj: So, during startup, I see `Volume group "zuul-vg" not found`, but nothing in dmesg - where might that be coming from? Interesting to see that `/dev/mapper/zuul--vg-root` ends up being mounted, is that double dash significant?
1554[19:26:04] <chrisw> and still, the mystery of where the grub menu that I see during boot is actually coming from?!
1555[19:26:42] <somiaj> well if it can't find your volume group, it won't find the volumes to mount, that coudl be the cause of the issue
1557[19:27:12] <chrisw> somiaj - okay, but what is it that ends up being mounted then? where does volume group config live?
1558[19:27:14] <RhinoCodes> convice me to use Debian
1559[19:27:30] <somiaj> it could be, names have to match exactly, my lvm knowledge is really limited as I don't use it on my personal systems, and it has just worked on the few servers I have
1579[19:31:01] <shtrb> somiaj, I doubt anyone would ask users (the same as it was systemd as a whole ), it would be the Debian community who would decide on that subject
1580[19:32:11] <MTecknology> I'm in aptitude and pressed a key... but I don't know which key. The package is now showing as yellow and "iw". I know the i means install. Does anyone happen to know what the w means?
1586[19:35:26] <shtrb> somiaj, I think most users can't vote (who are not DM / DDs)
1587[19:35:28] <somiaj> MTecknology: from dpkg, Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend -- it appears @ is triger-awaiting
1593[19:37:44] <MTecknology> interesting; can you enlighten me to where you found @=w?
1594[19:37:58] <MTecknology> and @=trigger-awaiting?
1595[19:38:19] <somiaj> MTecknology: @ was my typo, I found that Status= line at the top of dpkg -l | haed
1596[19:38:23] <somiaj> dpkg -l | head
1597[19:38:23] <dpkg> ii | head 2.9-1.2 somiaj's private warez collection
1598[19:39:00] <somiaj> I just know that always lists the possible status a package can be in, seems this is related to dpkg-trigger, and that package is installed but waiting some triger to finish configuring
1610[19:44:44] <MTecknology> The curses interface is super duper fantastic for working out dependency issues. It's a bit confusing at first, but you can select/view one package, then use + to select a specific version, if it shows red, then there's a dependency that needs to be resolved. You can let aptitude try to auto-resolve it or press enter on that version to see package info for that specific version and
1611[19:44:50] <MTecknology> it'll highlight in red the problems. Then you can expand those, choose to install, and if it's red, you can dig even deeper.
1619[19:53:43] <chrisw> somiaj - well, progress... installed ntfs-3g, which meant I could get the last two mounts in the fstb I posted working, (I'd systemctl mask'ed them...) and now everything comes up rw
1632[20:00:30] <MTecknology> The message that says ~"has files in directory, not removing" should tell you which path.
1633[20:01:36] <Ede|Popede> MTecknology: i used aptitude some years ago, but for dependencies there's also debtree. make it create a graph together with dot and you can even keep them for the next time.
1634[20:01:58] <gribouille> MTecknology, the package was removed a long time ago
1637[20:03:37] <MTecknology> You could maybe re-install/re-remove and it should spit out that message again. Otherwise- I'm not sure that it's possible.
1731[21:10:22] <sney> message #215 in that thread covers it pretty succinctly. replaced-url
1732[21:11:08] <sney> if Oracle continues to refuse to provide security support for their own previous versions, then those same versions can't have security support in debian stable releases. therefore they wont be in stable or stable+1
1739[21:16:18] <oxek> oracle provides support for 6.1 6.0 and 5.2, so there has been progress in that too
1740[21:18:26] <oxek> and... virtualbox installation from oracle repo failed...
1741[21:20:39] <oxek> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1742[21:20:41] <sney> oracle has a long history of gradually making life harder for free software projects. They did it with virtualbox, they did it with mysql, they did it with java, etc...
1743[21:20:56] <oxek> I know oracle is bad
1744[21:21:34] <sney> the people making those decisions for debian are probably just not very inclined to bend over backwards to package virtualbox. particularly when all of the libvirt/qemu/etc stuff is available without any oracle-isms.
1796[22:08:30] <karlpinc> Well, I could use aptitude install.... and if there's depenencies it always asks and I can say no. But that's kinda lame. There must be a way to "just ask".
1797[22:08:51] <oxek> apt -s install
1798[22:09:08] <jmcnaught> karlpinc: "aptitude search '?provides(virtualbox)'" (short for ~Pvirtualbox) will show you which real packages provide a virtual package. It's none for virtualbox on buster for me.
1807[22:10:59] <karlpinc> oxek: (Why are apt options documented only on the apt-get man page? Or) did you mean apt-get?
1808[22:11:10] <oxek> karlpinc: I did mean apt
1809[22:11:24] <oxek> apt is the user interface to apt-get, apt-cache, etc.
1810[22:11:34] <karlpinc> oxek: Ok. (Just another reason to be unpleased with "apt". ;)
1811[22:12:02] <jmcnaught> Virtual packages are used when there's more than one package that could fill that role (think apache2 or nginx both provide httpd allowing other packages to agnostically depend on 'httpd'. You can't install a virtual package directly, you need to explicitly select one to install.
1812[22:12:03] <karlpinc> oxek: Well, but not aptitude. (I assume.)
1889[23:42:56] *** mirrorbird is now known as SleepyJoe
1890[23:43:18] <oxek> sney: what I said earlier was mistaken - oracle does not provide support for vbox 5.2 nor 6.0, support was ended in July 2020, hence only vbox 6.1 (the latest release) is supported.
1891[23:43:58] <oxek> I can see why that would be an issue for debian
1892[23:44:33] <jhutchins> I thought there was a vbox component or driver or something that wasn't free as well.
1893[23:44:52] <oxek> version 6.0 cut support for 32bit hosts (and that's why the latest 5.2 download is still offered), and 6.1 cut support for software virtualization (hence 6.0 download is still offered).
1894[23:45:10] <oxek> 6.1 will receive long term support
1895[23:45:18] <oxek> so 6.1 could be suitable for debian
1896[23:45:30] <oxek> (no big cuts in functionality are planned)
1897[23:45:47] <oxek> jhutchins: vbox could still be in contrib & non-free
1898[23:45:54] <oxek> just like rar and others
1899[23:45:55] <jhutchins> I was realised that the free VMWare thing wouldn't handle 64b software about five years ago.
1900[23:46:11] <sney> jhutchins: oracle's licenses are always crappy, but if security support is available then it can still be in non-free. but it isn't.
1904[23:47:08] <sney> and oracle might be saying that they'll LTS 6.1 right now, but we know from experience that they might just change their minds with no warning
1905[23:47:20] <sney> it's not my call but I wouldn't do it
1910[23:48:55] <oxek> vbox is the only "open-source" option on windows, no?
1911[23:49:13] <sney> yeah, the worst thing about oracle is that their software is usually pretty useful. so we can't just disregard them and their products completely.
1918[23:56:29] <somiaj> isn't windows WSL or whatever it called an option (not open source) but comes with windows -- though I think it is mostly for chroots/console like setups