People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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5 [00:05:22] <David--> hi guys, I followed this guide to setup a VPN: replaced-url
6 [00:05:42] <David--> I can login an everything but the DNS doesn't work for internal mappings
7 [00:06:41] <David--> They work when i'm on the local network not on the VPN but when remotely logged in it's not using them. I can still access local devices by the IP, just not DNS.
8 [00:06:53] <David--> Has anyone any idea why?
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11 [00:07:36] <alexrelis[m]> Is there a way to install GNS 3 on Debian without making a frankendebian?
12 [00:07:45] <David--> darn sorry, just realised wrong channel! sorry
13 [00:08:31] <azeem> alexrelis[m]: what's GNS 3?
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15 [00:09:16] <dasher00> David--: the linked guide is suggesting to check firewall and as well check your $ cat /etc/resolve.conf you're may missing correct DNS record.
16 [00:09:38] <dasher00> *DNS server ip
17 [00:09:42] <alexrelis[m]> azeem: It's a virtual network simulator. I need it for one of my classes and originally tried to install PacketTracer but it's ancient and nonfree.
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19 [00:10:11] <alexrelis[m]> So GNS looks like a good alternative, but it also looks like a royal PITA to install because it's asking me to put Ubuntu PPAs on Debian.
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21 [00:10:54] <azeem> alexrelis[m]: sounds like you might want to sandbox it in a vm or so
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23 [00:11:10] <David--> dasher00
24 [00:11:12] <alexrelis[m]> I just don't have a powerful enough computer to do that unfortunatly...
25 [00:11:16] <alexrelis[m]> unfortunately*
26 [00:11:18] <azeem> :-/
27 [00:11:31] <David--> dasher00: Thanks but it's not Debian related, i posted in this channel by mistake
28 [00:11:37] <David--> (23:07:44) (David--) darn sorry, just realised wrong channel! sorry
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30 [00:12:51] <alexrelis[m]> Why can't more devs just distribute flatpaks/appimages for their software?
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37 [00:19:34] <oxek> which Matrix.org clients are available in debian? nheko and quaternion only?
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110 [01:46:38] <ryouma> can dhclient be restarted without rebooting?
111 [01:46:40] <ryouma> can it be restarted without interrupting irc?
112 [01:47:03] <ryouma> checkrestart says there is no init script
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139 [02:14:41] <ryouma> when i run a second instance of firefox, it uses up resources so much that the system freezes for quite a while, with mouse and keyboard not really responsive. is there a script i can run continuously that will just kill firefox instead of freezing the system?
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146 [02:25:05] <alexrelis[m]> oxek: I believe so. I recommend using the Element or Fractal flatpak in flathub.
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154 [02:35:04] <tomreyn> ryouma: a kernel with low latency patchet may help with getting better responsiveness in such low memory / swapping related situations. zram might, too. the real fix is to increase physical memory
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156 [02:37:19] <tomreyn> you may also be able to make a tradeoff in terms of video chipset / processor managed physical memory if you have integrated graphics and your bios lets you choose how much ram to dedicate to it.
157 [02:39:34] <fling> Why are all the libs marked as manually installed? Is it fine to mark them as auto?
158 [02:39:58] <fling> What about other software? What will happen if I mark everything as auto? Will not apt autoclean itself and OS? :D
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160 [02:45:30] <ryouma> tomreyn: is this low latency thing a debian package one installs?
161 [02:46:13] <ryouma> (any idea why it is not default? my whole system nearly freezes for probably hours unless i figue out some killing operation)
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165 [02:52:57] <tomreyn> ryouma: most linux distributions target server systems originally, you don't necessarily want those patches there, but on a desktop you may
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167 [02:54:16] <ryouma> many years ago i read a rant that the kernel is not designed for users. but i'd hoped that by now it had already been fixed, as for example debian installs a bunch of desktops and so on and so is for users too. at least optionally?
168 [02:55:04] <avu> ryouma: Linux just isn't very good in situations where there is not enough physical memory and swapping and the oom killer get involved
169 [02:55:23] <avu> ryouma: if you have enough physical memory in your system to accomodate all running programms, everything works quite well
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171 [02:56:19] <avu> ryouma: as tomreyn pointed out, there are things you can tune to make it a bit better but the best fix really is to get more memory
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173 [02:56:57] <ryouma> agreed :). and at this time i cannot get more physical memory. but i'm not 100% certain it's a memory problem but it definitly could be as the tabs in question load data. tehre is a momentary popup saying an extneion takes too long which makes me wonder if it might be cpu. dunno. in any case is this kernel patch or other tweaks available in debian?
174 [02:57:47] <tomreyn> kernel packages with the low latency patch set applied don't seem to be built for debian, maybe it's not considered useful enough.
175 [02:58:05] <avu> playing with swappiness might also help. and if you're not sure what the bottleneck is, there are countless tools that help you figure that out, starting with a simple 'top'
176 [02:58:21] <tomreyn> there are other options, such as trying a difference scheduler. but in the end it'll just always boil down to 'need to get more physical memory'
177 [02:58:45] <avu> or adjust your usage of the machine to the available resources :)
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180 [02:59:17] <ryouma> i usually try this --- 17:58 <avu> or adjust your usage of the machine to the available resources :)
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182 [02:59:30] <tomreyn> yes, embrace your terminal ;)
183 [02:59:54] <ryouma> i can't uyse mouse or kb enough to use tools like top so would have to set them up to record then repro and waste possibly more than an hour with unknown time until the system is responsibe again . i have tried swappiness of 1 and the default 60. i am unfamiliar with other tweaks and open to suggestions.
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185 [03:01:21] <ryouma> i set swappiness to 1 currently. on a previous machine with only 4gb that worked perfectly -- amazingly smooth. but now i have a machine with half the processors and 1.5x the memory and ... neither 60 nor 1 seem to work.
186 [03:02:22] <aaro> ryouma: i use a firefox addon called auto tab unloader, if you tend to keep a lot of tabs open, it will help
187 [03:02:26] <ryouma> so given that 4gb was enough, and recently too, i am thinking something might make 6gb enough. dunno.
188 [03:02:35] <tomreyn> so you have 6 GB RAM installed, and opening two browser windows makes the system become unresponsive?
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190 [03:02:52] <ryouma> that will help a bit yes, thanks. i stopped using bartab at one point and did not replaced it with a newer extension.
191 [03:03:09] <ryouma> but i thought firefox unloaded tabs these days. must be mistaken./
192 [03:03:35] <tomreyn> about:performance
193 [03:03:48] <ryouma> tomreyn: two browser instances. 2 profiles. lots of tabs each but the new one has no other tabs loaded.
194 [03:05:41] <tomreyn> maybe one of those would help: replaced-url
195 [03:05:59] <ryouma> nothing stands out in main firefox instance which has a superset of extensions
196 [03:06:07] <tomreyn> also do ad blocking outside of the web browser, use host files or a proxy
197 [03:06:19] <ryouma> huh
198 [03:06:31] <ryouma> sounds labor-intensive
199 [03:06:54] <tomreyn> you can automate it
200 [03:08:11] <jim> hi.,.. I'm trying to build the v4l2 loop module; I think I did it, I can't find the module it built... maybe there's another step after doing the dkms thing on that module?
201 [03:08:20] <tomreyn> just switching to adguard dns servers may already get rid of most
202 [03:08:32] <jim> one sec, I'll try to fill in more details in a moment
203 [03:10:44] <jmcnaught> ryouma: I run Firefox with NoScript which blocks all javascript until you enable (per domain). It breaks a lot of sites, but I've found most sites work with only a subset of the javascript they try to include, and having javascript disabled by default improves performance in general.
204 [03:12:33] <tomreyn> noscript or umatrix may help, too, i agree.
205 [03:13:19] <gry> hi, how do i transfer webcam from host to guest in virt-manager? tried built in webcam or usb webcam, not working
206 [03:14:40] <jmcnaught> gry: you tried "Redirect USB device" under the Virtual Machine window?
207 [03:14:49] <jmcnaught> err menu I mean.
208 [03:20:40] <gry> jmcnaught: just did, and it worked. thank you.
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210 [03:24:24] <jmcnaught> gry: on the details pane for a VM you can click on "Add Hardware", select "USB Host Device" and select the device from the list if you want to add it permanently.
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212 [03:25:17] <jim> hi gry...
213 [03:25:48] <jim> details on my issue above, first the package install: replaced-url
214 [03:26:42] <jim> now, the build log: replaced-url
215 [03:28:05] <jim> any other info you would need?
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217 [03:30:47] <jmcnaught> jim: replaced-url
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227 [03:36:25] <jim> argh... thanks jmcnaught
228 [03:36:55] <jim> the net card needs it
229 [03:37:03] <jim> wireless
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231 [03:38:54] <jim> hmm. let's see, so I could try for that version
232 [03:41:10] <jim> jmcnaught, <judd> Package: v4l2loopback-dkms on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.0-4; stretch: 0.10.0-1; buster: 0.12.1-1; bullseye: 0.12.5-1; sid: 0.12.5-1
233 [03:41:33] <jim> jmcnaught, howbout if I backport the one in bullseye?
234 [03:41:56] <jim> , checkbackport v4l2loopback-dkms
235 [03:41:57] <judd> Backporting package v4l2loopback-dkms in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12).
236 [03:42:37] <jim> so I would somehow need a newer debhelper
237 [03:43:00] <jim> in order to build the dkms pkg
238 [03:43:20] <jim> ,v debhelper
239 [03:43:21] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 13.2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 13.2; sid: 13.2
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241 [03:43:48] <jmcnaught> You could just try it anyways, I think judd always says debhelper-compat currently.
242 [03:44:00] <jim> wait, buster has 12.1.1
243 [03:44:11] <jim> what do I have...
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245 [03:45:12] <jim> you mean try the backport?
246 [03:47:05] <jmcnaught> Yeah, what's the harm if it fails to build the .deb?
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251 [03:53:00] <ryouma> tomreyn: jmcnaught thanks, i already run noscript with default off. and something origin for ads (whichever one has the 1 superimposed on 0 to toggle it.) i will look into unloading tabs. i thought ifreofx did that by default. but i do think it is very strange that what worked perfectly for 4gb does not work for 6gb.
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254 [03:54:13] <ryouma> (as for ad blocking dns, htat sounds interesting, although i always wonder what the evil level of dns servers is and whether i could be malwared or prevented from getting to a site or something. but htat is just me being ignorant.)
255 [03:54:25] <jim> jmcnaught, I guess I could find the module and put it into the right place and then run depmod -a
256 [03:55:39] <jim> if I get a debianized source, is there a way I can run the equiv of apt build-dep that-package?
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259 [03:56:17] <jmcnaught> jim: backporting from bullseye or sid didn't work?
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261 [03:57:45] <hesperaux> Hello. I've got a fresh cloud-init debian buster image on a KVM virtual machine. linux-image-cloud-amd64 does not include the 9p filesystem driver, so I want to rotate the kernel to linux-image-amd64. Installing it does NOT cause the kernel to rotate after rebooting the VM. I need to automate this process, so I can't purge linux-image-4.19.0-10-cloud-amd64, because it asks for confirmation in an ncurses dialog. How can I
262 [03:57:45] <hesperaux> rotate the kernel?
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264 [03:58:30] <hesperaux> I would also be happy if: 1. I could just get the 9p driver using the cloud kernel. 2. I could force it to accept the ncurses dialog on the CLI
265 [03:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1108
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267 [03:59:41] <jim> jmcnaught, nope
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269 [04:01:18] <jim> first off, can't do fakeroot debian/rules clean, because it can;t find the executable "dh"
270 [04:01:55] <jim> , v debhelper
271 [04:01:56] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 13.2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 13.2; sid: 13.2
272 [04:02:19] <jim> let me try the backports one
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274 [04:02:34] <somiaj> hesperaux: you couldn't do something with changing the kernel grub boots off of, reboot, then purge (or is this not able to be automated).
275 [04:03:03] <hesperaux> somiaj, the weird thing is that installing the non-cloud kernel and rebooting doesn't swap to that kernel. It boots back up with the cloud one.
276 [04:03:19] <somiaj> hesperaux: that is why I mentioned using grub to tell it to boot off the otehr kernel
277 [04:03:20] <hesperaux> Not sure why, but it doesn't replace the existing linux binary in /boot (I assume)
278 [04:03:36] <hesperaux> somiaj, they are the same filename I believe, because the versions are the same, and the cloud kernel doesn't have "cloud" in the filename
279 [04:03:39] <somiaj> hesperaux: for some reason grub is probably detecting that kernel first, so the other kernel is number 2.
280 [04:03:43] <hesperaux> double checking
281 [04:03:52] <hesperaux> I lied
282 [04:03:55] <somiaj> hesperaux: they shoudln't be the same file name, other wise you couldn't install both at the same time.
283 [04:03:58] <hesperaux> cloud is in the name
284 [04:04:28] <somiaj> hesperaux: the other option is to edit the grub scripts in /etc/grub.d and force grub to detect the right kernel
285 [04:04:29] <hesperaux> somiaj, ok so I just need to figure out how to run grub-mkconfig and have it favor the non-cloud image
286 [04:04:32] <somiaj> (well right one first)
287 [04:04:44] <hesperaux> interestingly, grub only created a single option when I re-ran mkconfig
288 [04:04:50] <jmcnaught> jim: I just backported v4l2loopback-dkms from sid, the version of debhelper on my system is 12.1.1 (from buster). I followed the instructions from "/msg dpkg ssb"
289 [04:05:21] <somiaj> hesperaux: hmm, well maybe track down what the grub scripts are doing thne if it isn't detecting both
290 [04:05:33] <hesperaux> it shows them to stdout, but I only saw one boot option
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292 [04:05:42] <hesperaux> I will investigate it further and report back
293 [04:05:45] <hesperaux> thanks
294 [04:05:47] <jim> ok, still trying something, thanks for trying that and reporting the success
295 [04:07:10] <somiaj> hesperaux: since the grub scripts are just config files if you can make them detect the other kernel and make it default, it should work and not conflict with the grub package.
296 [04:07:50] <hesperaux> somiaj, ok. And yeah, it did create an entry but it went into advanced options submenu. It makes sense; I just didn't realize it did that.
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298 [04:08:49] <somiaj> hesperaux: sounds like it just is detecing things in adifferent order. There is a way to tell grub to boot off that kernel on the next boot from the command line (forget how) and then reboot
299 [04:09:04] <somiaj> this might be easier than updating the scripts to detect the other kernel first
300 [04:09:33] <hesperaux> somiaj, hmm
301 [04:10:34] <jim> ok, I ran make v4l2...ko, and it produced the module
302 [04:10:37] <hesperaux> somiaj, looks like this might work: replaced-url
303 [04:10:43] <somiaj> hesperaux: check grub-set-default
304 [04:10:50] <hesperaux> yep
305 [04:11:11] <somiaj> yea just found that, that isn't what I rember, there was a way to make it use the other kernel for a 'single boot' vs default, but that does work
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308 [04:13:39] <jim> jmcnaught, do you know which dir the module goes in?
309 [04:14:16] <fuxxy> Well, I just broke my miter saw.
310 [04:14:42] <jim> fuxxy, all fingers intact?
311 [04:14:44] <jmcnaught> jim: no. Also doing it manually like that you'll need to repeat your steps every time there's a new kernel. I would try again with the ssb backport instructions to avoid that problem.
312 [04:14:46] <fuxxy> like, pieces flying broke.
313 [04:15:13] <fuxxy> jim, not a scratch on me, just the fence broke in half while in the middle of a cut. NBD.
314 [04:15:19] <jim> jmcnaught, that's why Im thinking of upgrading to testing
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317 [04:15:39] <jim> fuxxy glad you're ok
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320 [04:16:45] <jim> that's dangerous stuff... my dad lost two of his fingertips in a tablesaw mishap
321 [04:17:12] <fuxxy> Now that that project's on hold. I need to figure out why this AIO PC won't boot from a fresh install if it's in UEFI boot mode.
322 [04:17:24] *** dingen is now known as dreamer
323 [04:17:55] <jim> jmcnaught, yep, worth a try
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325 [04:19:37] <fuxxy> jim, my wife's mad at me because I have banned her from using the power tools. I went to teach her how to use the table saw and she couldnt keep her attention on the blade. Scared me half to death.
326 [04:20:51] <fuxxy> I told her "I don't care if the house is on fire, if that blade is spinning it's the only thing in the world that matters."
327 [04:21:06] <somiaj> fuxxy: try to keep the conversation about debian here.
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331 [04:25:21] <jim> fuxxy, good job protecting your wife... it might come to pass you have to move the power tools far away from the house you and your wife live (somiaj, last comment)
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337 [04:31:25] <jim> jmcnaught, you mentioned you successfully built v4l2loopback-dkms? what did it produce as a result?
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342 [04:32:36] <jmcnaught> jim: these files: replaced-url
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344 [04:34:48] <jim> wonder what's wrong with my system this time
345 [04:34:53] <jim> :/
346 [04:36:36] <jim> jmcnaught, and at some point to get the source to build, you ran: apt v4l2loopbacksomething?
347 [04:36:55] <jim> err apt source v4l2loopbacksomething?
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350 [04:40:46] <jmcnaught> !ssb
351 [04:40:47] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
352 [04:41:19] <jmcnaught> "apt -b source v4l2loopback-dkms"
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354 [04:42:27] <jim> NOW I got em :)
355 [04:42:32] <jmcnaught> nice
356 [04:43:20] <jim> I was thinking, fakeroot debian/rules clean ; fakeroot debian/rules build ; fakeroot debian/rules binary
357 [04:43:48] <jim> that's what kept failing
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360 [04:55:51] <hesperaux> somiaj, I was able to find an automatable solution. It's pretty ugly, but it works: replaced-url
361 [04:57:14] <somiaj> outside of digging into the grub scripts and changing how it detects the kernels for the menu, I can't think of another method.
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365 [05:03:30] <hesperaux> it'll do!
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368 [05:04:39] <jim> jmcnaught, I installed the dkms package, this time that worked too, it built the module and installed it into /lib/modules/5.6.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64/updates/dkms/
369 [05:06:53] <jim> it ran the depmod, but then trying modprobe v4l2loopback resulted in modprobe: ERROR: could not insert 'v4l2loopback': Operation not permitted
370 [05:06:57] <jmcnaught> jim: cool, and it works?
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372 [05:07:49] <jim> no, wouldn't let me modprobe... see immediately above
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374 [05:08:11] <jmcnaught> oh
375 [05:08:46] <jim> I -am- root... could there be interesting logs?
376 [05:09:06] <jmcnaught> dmesg or journalctl
377 [05:10:47] <jmcnaught> jim: so I just installed the backported .deb and the v4l2loopback module was loaded automatically, did you check lsmod?
378 [05:11:07] <jim> let;s check that :)
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380 [05:12:04] <jim> lsmod | grep v4l2loopback -> no output
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385 [05:16:23] <jim> take a look at this replaced-url
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387 [05:17:57] <jim> jmcnaught, sec
388 [05:25:56] <jmcnaught> jim: are you using SecureBoot? I'm not sure how that works with DKMS built modules.
389 [05:26:51] <sney> the debian wiki page has instructions for using dkms modules with secure boot, there are a couple extra steps to sign the module but it's still supported
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391 [05:30:06] <jim> nope
392 [05:30:33] <jim> right now I have no need for secure boot
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394 [05:32:29] <jim> there -really- needs to be a uefi that has -nothing- to do with microsoft at all
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405 [05:53:51] <oiaohm> Really the secureboot system kind of annoys me. Why has does UEFI not have a simple system for adding own OS KEKs. It really would make a lot of sense if system end user could add the KEK of the OS they use and lock out everything else.
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408 [05:55:55] <sney> it'll probably get there
409 [05:56:18] <sney> we're already years past the "windows or nothing" era of early efi
410 [05:56:53] <oiaohm> Still we have Microsoft as master bootloader authorisation.
411 [05:57:17] <oiaohm> without end users doing complex steps.
412 [06:01:11] <CombatVet> having a brainfart here, i'm setting up a reverse ssh and i want the user to terminate or disconnect after 10 mins of inactivity. Which config should I modify for this to work? remote or local? Assuming i'm using the remote host as a middle man, so: client -> remote -> local
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416 [06:13:42] <ryouma> my inclination is to try to use bios, because i don't understand any of this efi stuff -- but i keep forgetting the relation to mbr etc. if i want too partition an external hard drive for possible later use as an efi drive, is it sufficient to partition as mbr with a little space in the beginning?
417 [06:15:08] <sney> the efi/bios distinction only *really* matters for the boot drive. Once linux is in memory you can use whatever kind of disk with whatever kind of partition table as long as the kernel supports it
418 [06:15:45] <sney> you can do as you please with your external drive, in other words.
419 [06:15:48] <ryouma> it's meant to be bootable
420 [06:16:24] <sney> then yes, having some free space at the beginning of the disk will do the job
421 [06:16:38] <ryouma> (partitioned into 1gb spare, 1gb boot, 16gb root, restgb big)
422 [06:16:41] <ryouma> great
423 [06:17:07] <sney> the debian installer reserves 512M for the efi partition
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425 [06:17:49] <ryouma> hmm that might be more than i tried before. but i do have that spare parition that maybe tools could use.
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428 [06:20:42] <jim> jmcnaught, sney, looks like it's what you suspected, when I look at dmesg, I see: [290955.935164] Lockdown: modprobe: unsigned module loading is restricted; see replaced-url
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430 [06:21:43] <jim> if I go into the bios and turn off secure boot, could that solve this problem?
431 [06:22:12] <sney> yes
432 [06:22:45] <jim> ok, I'll try that in a little bit
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434 [06:23:58] <wuseman> CombatVet: ClientAliveInterval X (minutes) & ClientAliveCountMax (for max clients) in ssh config
435 [06:24:31] <CombatVet> wuseman, i got that part, i was just wondering which machine, local or remote to modify
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437 [06:24:53] <wuseman> CombatVet: server
438 [06:25:13] <CombatVet> so the endpoint or the local machine?
439 [06:25:19] <wuseman> end point
440 [06:25:23] <wuseman> For client you can use ServerAliveInterval 15, ServerAliveCountMax 3 in ~/.ssh/.config
441 [06:25:45] <CombatVet> yeah, that's what i thought, kinda threw me off earlier
442 [06:27:45] <wuseman> yeh
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444 [06:28:58] <CombatVet> so I don't mess with the remote machine's config except uncommenting GatewayPorts
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446 [06:31:27] <wuseman> Yes, if it's over lan, that's enough. If you use it remotely turn off password access and use ssh keys instead. And also change port if it's remotely for avoid autobots for trying brute-force
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459 [06:41:02] <jim> ok, secure boot off, and I have to go in as root and modprobe the v4l2loopback; this time, it did load, and lsmod confirms it
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466 [06:57:40] <jim> is it supposed to load at boot?
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468 [07:03:15] <jmcnaught> jim: I used to use v4l2loopback with webcamoid which added filters to my webcam then made a virtual camera available to other programs. I never had to manually load the module.
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471 [07:08:19] <jim> jmcnaught, ok.. I guess I could remove the module and try again... now that secure boot is off, that shouldn't be in the way
472 [07:09:27] <jim> is the module installed by a package (other than the dkms package)?
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475 [07:12:14] <jim> jmcnaught, apparantly you can use this module with obs to have obs output to a /dev/videoN
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480 [07:22:15] <jmcnaught> jim: that's interesting. I have OBS installed from a flatpak, I wonder if it would still work.
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485 [07:26:55] <jim> you need an obs module, I think it's called obs-v4lsink
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488 [07:27:47] <jim> also by the way, obs is available from a .deb and is in the archive at least for buster
489 [07:29:35] <jim> you might need that .deb installed in order to make the dependencies work
490 [07:30:19] <jmcnaught> Yeah I was using it for a while but I wanted the current version. I use OBS in tandem with an instance running in Windows, so I wanted the current release.
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492 [07:31:30] <jim> ok, in that case you may need to find the source and build the module
493 [07:32:42] <mindlessmiss> Hey guys I'm trying to add the software sources eg. replaced-url
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496 [07:34:48] <diogenes_> mindlessmiss, run: can /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999
497 [07:35:02] <diogenes_> share the url.
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500 [07:35:37] <diogenes_> sorry cat instead of can
501 [07:36:08] <jim> cats like cans of cat... food...
502 [07:36:52] <diogenes_> jim, poet.
503 [07:38:01] <mindlessmiss> diogenes_, "bash: can: command not found
504 [07:38:02] <mindlessmiss> "
505 [07:38:12] <mindlessmiss> duh nvm
506 [07:38:43] <mindlessmiss> replaced-url
507 [07:40:40] <diogenes_> mindlessmiss, pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
508 [07:40:57] <jim> mindlessmiss, curious, are you mostly getting packages off some cdroms?
509 [07:41:34] <diogenes_> comment out the last 2 lines and run: sudo apt update
510 [07:41:58] <mindlessmiss> jim I originally installed from a kde dvd
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512 [07:42:06] <mindlessmiss> ok jim thnaks\
513 [07:42:13] <themill> actually, it's the deb.debian.org lines for buster/updates that are wrong there
514 [07:42:45] <diogenes_> ^^
515 [07:43:00] <mindlessmiss> ok so I comment out which ones?
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517 [07:44:36] <themill> the first ones where buster/updates appears, looks like lines 9 and 10
518 [07:46:36] <mindlessmiss> ok so deb replaced-url
519 [07:46:37] <mindlessmiss> deb-src replaced-url
520 [07:46:38] <ryouma> should pstree | wc approximate thenumber of processes shown in gkrellm?
521 [07:48:21] <themill> mindlessmiss: those two are wrong and can be commented out, yes
522 [07:48:37] <mindlessmiss> Im actually trying toi get my wifi adapter working, its panda 09 something somerthing ralink, usually the drivers are installed out of the box when I boot other distros, including my last install of debian
523 [07:48:50] <mindlessmiss> ok themill thanks
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525 [07:52:48] <mindlessmiss> replaced-url
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529 [07:57:40] <mindlessmiss> replaced-url
530 [07:57:42] <themill> I would also suggest commenting out the cd-rom entries for the dvd unless you particularly want to use them
531 [07:58:34] <mindlessmiss> themill ok yeah I took the dvd I'm not using it
532 [07:58:51] <s3a> Hello to everyone who's reading this. :) If I download the iso (via the torrent) and download the SHA512SUMS and SHA512SUMS.sign files all in the same folder/directory and run SHA512SUMS --check from that directory, it's not *just* checking that it downloaded correctly; it's also checking that it wasn't tampered with (most likely by an actor with malicious intent), right? That's what the SHA512SUMS.*sign* file is for, right? Is the SHA512SUMS --check
533 [07:58:51] <s3a> command using gpg internally? I ask because the SHA512SUMS says PGP, and I'm assuming that that's how the integrity is determined.
534 [07:59:17] <s3a> Example link of files: replaced-url
535 [07:59:30] <mindlessmiss> yes s3a
536 [07:59:39] <mindlessmiss> that's the ideA
537 [08:00:19] <s3a> mindlessmiss, Thanks for the answer, but just to be clear, *everything* I said is correct?
538 [08:00:27] <themill> !check iso signature
539 [08:00:27] <dpkg> On a Debian box, you can check the installer images are legitimate using the signature file that comes with them. When downloading the ISO, also get the SHA256SUMS and SHA256SUMS.sign files in the same directory, then: "apt-get install -t sid debian-keyring; sha256sum -c SHA256SUMS; gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-role-keys.gpg --verify SHA256SUMS.sign". See also <check iso image>.
540 [08:00:27] <mindlessmiss> check the the file you downloaded is exacrtly what it should be, bit for bit
541 [08:02:02] <themill> s3a: unless you also check that the signatures are good and from the expected key, checking the hashes is not verifying that it was not tampered with
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543 [08:03:04] <s3a> themill, replaced-url
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545 [08:04:02] <themill> s3a: guess you didn't do what dpkg said then>?
546 [08:05:04] <s3a> themill, Oops. Two secs.
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549 [08:07:28] <s3a> themill, Does it really need the -t sid part?
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551 [08:07:54] <s3a> (for the apt-get install debian-keyring part)
552 [08:08:47] <themill> probably not at the moment as I don't think the cd signing key has been rolled over yet
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557 [08:13:52] <SerajewelKS> why would update-grub put "ro" on the kernel command line? ro is not specified in /etc/fstab nor is / mounted ro currently.
558 [08:14:00] <SerajewelKS> i have to manually edit grub.cfg to get the system to boot
559 [08:14:31] <SerajewelKS> oh waith that is supposed to be there for fsck isn't it
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562 [08:24:09] <s3a> themill, replaced-url
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564 [08:25:04] <s3a> themill, gpg --edit-key the_key says not found, no public key.
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567 [08:28:35] <themill> gpg is telling you that there is no route from your own gpg key to that key. That's probably true
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570 [08:29:10] <themill> It's also telling you that there's a good signature from the Debian CD signing key, and you know that key is from the debian-keyring package, which you already trust
571 [08:29:14] <OzFalcon> I'm learning basic sbuild usage and added --extra-repository=".... buster-backports main". Is it possible to pull backports automatically is it always required to sbuild -d buster --build-dep-resolver=aptitude
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573 [08:30:19] <OzFalcon> <or is it>
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575 [08:30:44] <themill> OzFalcon: you need to get sbuild to use aptitude or it won't figure out that it can use newer versions from backports when it hits a versioned build-dep
576 [08:31:33] <OzFalcon> Can this be set in the chroot creation?
577 [08:31:57] <palimaar> is there any way to mount a btrfs-formatted disk writable to other non-root users?
578 [08:32:24] * palimaar forgets to try chmod'ing the whole disk
579 [08:33:10] <themill> OzFalcon: I don't know of a way of setting it per-chroot, it's a bit annoying like that
580 [08:33:22] <mindlessmiss> 5
581 [08:33:23] <mindlessmiss> W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/i915/skl_huc_ver01_07_1398.bin for module i915
582 [08:33:49] <themill> mindlessmiss: tjhat
583 [08:33:55] <themill> mindlessmiss: that's in firmware-misc-nonfree
584 [08:34:10] <OzFalcon> themill, ok, So I have to use sbuild -d buster --build-dep-resolver=aptitude ...
585 [08:34:41] <themill> yeah
586 [08:34:55] <themill> or put that in your ~/.sbuildrc
587 [08:35:23] <palimaar> ayy chown worked fine to get the disk back to my user, nevermind guys
588 [08:35:34] <s3a> themill, Are you just saying that I trust it in real life or that gpg knows it (too)? :P Do you know how one would go about *properly* removing that warning?
589 [08:37:32] <themill> s3a: you would need to have a gpg key that you have cross-signed with debian developers in a chain back to the cd team and you'd need to configure gpg to follow that web of trust
590 [08:38:13] <themill> s3a: alternatively, you tell gpg not to check the trust of the key and only check the signature; istr you can get gpgv t do that
591 [08:38:56] <mindlessmiss> thanks themill . I guess I ought to reboot, as ,per the suggestion
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593 [08:39:55] <s3a> themill, Okay so (most importantly) the "gpg: Good signature from "Debian CD signing key <debian-cd@lists.debian.org>" [unknown]" part is what confirms that the iso did not just download correctly, but that it was also *not* tampered with, right?
594 [08:40:19] <themill> yes
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597 [08:40:48] <themill> well, it says that the SHA256SUMS file was not tampered with
598 [08:41:49] <s3a> themill, So, how would I ensure that the iso was not tampered with?
599 [08:42:34] <themill> since you've checked that the sha256sum of the ISO image is the same as listed in that file, and it's not (currently) possible to create a second file with the same hash, you therefore know that the ISO file is the one that was hashed (and then those hashes were signed)
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601 [08:44:47] <themill> "sha256sum -c SHA256SUMS" verifies that the ISO file has the same hash as in the file SHA256SUMS. gpg verifies that the contents of the file SHA256SUMS are the same as when the signature was made for them. You've verified that the key signing it is the one that should have done so
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603 [08:45:59] <s3a> themill, "it's not (currently) possible to create a second file with the same hash" - I read that it can be trivial to make a different file have the same hash. If I'm misunderstanding something, could you please tell me what?
604 [08:46:29] <mindlessmiss> yey looks like wifi device is recognised
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606 [08:50:07] <themill> s3a: collisions are possible with old hashes like MD5 but not the SHA2 ones. There's also a difference between generating two files that have the same hash and generating a new file that has the same hash as an existing file (that's the hash version of the birthday paradox -- in a group of people, it's likely that some pair of people has the same birthday, but not that another person has the same birthday as you)
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608 [08:53:16] <s3a> themill, Okay, so, I can trust the hash matching, but I can't trust the hash itself without pgp is what you're saying, right?
609 [08:53:35] <s3a> SHA256 and SHA512 hashes that is, not MD5 ones
610 [08:53:59] <s3a> I might have worded that badly.
611 [08:56:15] <s3a> themill, Wait, I'm confused now. If SHA256 and SHA512 hashes are so trustworthy. Then, why involve gpg?
612 [08:56:58] <s3a> (Sorry for dragging this on.)
613 [08:57:41] <s3a> Oh, wait. To make sure that THE SHA256 or SHA512 sum is itself not tampered with, right?
614 [08:57:55] <s3a> in the SHA512SUMS file, that is
615 [08:58:05] <s3a> themill,
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625 [09:25:45] <OzFalcon> When using sbuild within the source directory, Why does it still need to source.tar.xz ???
626 [09:25:55] <OzFalcon> <need the>
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671 [10:12:11] <themill> s3a: that's correct
672 [10:12:49] <themill> OzFalcon: you actually give sbuild the source package not the unpacked sources. You need the original upstream source to be able to make the source package.
673 [10:12:53] <themill> !source package
674 [10:12:53] <dpkg> A source package is a set of files used to make a Debian binary <package>. The main file is the Debian source control file (<dsc>) which lists the other required files; use "dget replaced-url
675 [10:12:58] <s3a> themill, Thanks for confirming. :)
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677 [10:13:07] <s3a> (and for all your input)
678 [10:13:24] <themill> np
679 [10:13:53] <themill> gpg is both awesome and horrific at the same time
680 [10:14:39] <cskr> What makes the CD images that include non-free firmware, found at replaced-url
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698 [10:34:47] <s3a> I'd say it's worth the horror. ;P
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708 [10:46:04] <OzFalcon> themill, Ok I see what's happening with the package I'm building. It's creating a source.tar.gz from the source folder then using that to build the package.
709 [10:47:43] <OzFalcon> themill, How it's doing that is currently beyond me. When I look at the control & rules files, There doesn't seem to be anything I can see that creates that tar.gz file.
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715 [10:53:14] <themill> cskr: it's the non-free firmware that they contain
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723 [10:56:02] <cskr> themill: Who builds these images? Based on timestamps of the file and checksum signatures, they seem to be built immediately after the official free images. Which makes be believe both are built through the exact same process. Why are they unofficial then?
724 [10:57:39] <cskr> Is it just to distance the Debian project name from non-free firmware, even though the images themselves are built by Debian maintainers?
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726 [10:57:57] <themill> yes, that's correct. non-free is not part of Debian
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730 [10:59:00] <OzFalcon> cskr, replaced-url
731 [11:00:05] <OzFalcon> cskr, 1. Debian will remain 100% free
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733 [11:00:49] <OzFalcon> cskr, As such, The non-free firmware can not be considered official if official is 100% free
734 [11:02:02] <cskr> OzFalcon, themill: Thanks. I see the point now.
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742 [11:10:20] <ElDiabolo> Hi. I am building a debian package. Since I put the debian directory under git version control, debuild is complaining about unwanted binary files in the .git directory. How kann I tell dpkg-source to completely ignore these files.
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1164 [14:12:49] <android17> If I install a package with --no-install-recommends and later an update comes, will apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade install the recommended packages against that package too?
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1166 [14:13:29] <ElDiabolo> Hi. I am building a debian package. Since I put the debian directory under git version control, debuild is complaining about unwanted binary files in the .git directory. How kann I tell dpkg-source to completely ignore these files.
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1178 [14:18:49] <zentris> Working on a new theme proposal for bullseye: replaced-url
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1200 [14:38:19] <flayer> sigh
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1248 [14:57:01] <Arrow900> I have removed nginx and also its config files like /etc/nginx, how can I reinstall it with configs ?
1249 [14:57:34] <H4ndy> it should restore default configs when reinstalling afaik 🤔
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1251 [14:58:48] <Arrow900> it does not, neither /etc/nginx or /var/replaced-url
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1253 [15:00:10] <Arrow900> Actually I purged it not just removed, maybe thats why ? Either way is there a way to fix it ?
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1282 [15:18:57] <ElDiabolo> Arrow900, Did you remove /etc/nginx before removing the nginx package?
1283 [15:19:49] <Arrow900> ElDiabolo: possibly
1284 [15:22:02] <Arrow900> Cannot remember if I did, that would explain it ?
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1289 [15:25:30] <ElDiabolo> Arrow900, If you did so, this will be remembered as removed which apt will respect. So it will not be reinstalled. A purge should however have fixed that.
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1291 [15:26:57] <ElDiabolo> Pleas note that I am not 100% sure about this, but no one else is answering :-)
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1293 [15:28:33] <Arrow900> Yeah thx for help but does not seem to work
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1307 [15:39:46] <tomreyn> ElDiabolo: if you don't mind loosing your nginx configurations, or actually want to, you should purge and then install nginx-common as well
1308 [15:40:28] <tomreyn> also nginx-light/-full/-extras if any of those are installed
1309 [15:40:59] <tomreyn> alternatively you can install with --force-confnew
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1314 [15:42:29] <tomreyn> sorry, that's --force-confmiss
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1317 [15:44:43] <ElDiabolo> tomreyn, Arrow900 was asking, unfortunately he left. That PLS (Prematuere Leave Syndrome).
1318 [15:44:56] <flayer> sigh
1319 [15:45:15] <dvs> !pls
1320 [15:45:15] <dpkg> Cud u plz spk englsh bcuz wen u spk lke ths u luk lke a moron.
1321 [15:45:19] <dvs> heh
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1324 [15:45:48] <tomreyn> oh, right, i got the nicks wrong
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1326 [15:46:43] <Ede|Popede> dvs: honestly folks with PLS don't look too good either ;)
1327 [15:47:40] <dvs> ;-)
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1389 [16:40:04] <crusoe> hi I am new to debian
1390 [16:41:59] <diogenes_> !welcome
1391 [16:41:59] <dpkg> Welcome to #debian, the larger but unofficial support channel for Debian GNU/Linux stable releases. Official channels have moved to OFTC (irc.oftc.net) see replaced-url
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1403 [16:56:14] <jim> crusoe, how did the debian install go?
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1405 [16:56:52] <crusoe> it is ok I still install it now
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1407 [16:57:09] <crusoe> I will tell you when it finishes
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1419 [17:01:23] <jim> crusoe, you can also ask questions while it's installing... are you using a netinst image? also, is this a laptop? desktop? something else?
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1421 [17:02:42] <crusoe> jim it is old laptop before 2006 and I installed cd image with xfce
1422 [17:02:59] <crusoe> I didnt install LXQt
1423 [17:03:21] <jim> ok... about your networking:
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1425 [17:04:10] <jim> do you have a wireless? do you have a wired ethernet? if you do have a wired, do you have a cable and a place to connect the other end?
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1443 [17:26:05] <oxek> is there anything dangerous about installing ttf-mscorefonts-installer, or is it purely a licensing issue that makes it not fully debian compatible?
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1447 [17:28:10] <somiaj> oxek: stuff in contrib/non-free is safe in the sense that debian provides it for you and it has no know grave bugs or security issues. In this case, yes, that will download software on your machine that doesn't meet the DFSG
1448 [17:28:31] <somiaj> so stuff in contrib/non-free is fully debian compatible, it just dosen't meet the DFSG
1449 [17:28:43] <somiaj> (well contrib meets the DFSG, but it depends/downlaods stuff that doesn't)
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1451 [17:30:53] <oxek> got it, thanks
1452 [17:30:57] <oxek> can't live without arial...
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1462 [17:49:14] <yanmaani> I wonder how come nobody has reverse engineered all the fonts
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1465 [17:49:27] <yanmaani> Like if you render it to a bitmap and then vectorize, and check it looks 100% identical
1466 [17:49:38] <yanmaani> and then name it like Ariel or something
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1468 [17:50:56] <somiaj> could depend on the copyright, and argued if the font looks 100% identical it breaks the copyright.
1469 [17:51:24] <yanmaani> Nope, the copyright only protects the software file
1470 [17:51:27] <yanmaani> Not how it looks
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1472 [17:52:45] <somiaj> seems you can copyright the typeface or glyph though
1473 [17:53:38] <somiaj> though I guess that is rare with fonts. Sounds like you have a project, make more open fonts.
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1478 [17:58:35] <Abrax> hey b1ack0p
1479 [17:58:41] <Abrax> been a while?
1480 [17:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1119
1481 [17:59:10] <b1ack0p> Abrax: yup
1482 [17:59:13] <b1ack0p> how is you?
1483 [17:59:16] <Abrax> i am good
1484 [17:59:23] <Abrax> my chan has been growing
1485 [17:59:50] <b1ack0p> ah it is not in autojoin
1486 [17:59:52] <b1ack0p> let me see
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1500 [18:14:57] <somiaj> Abrax: please keep discussion here to debian support
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1533 [18:53:41] <ElDiabolo> Why isn't there an Artistic-2 file in /usr/share/common-licenses?
1534 [18:55:01] <somiaj> ElDiabolo: do any debian packages use that license? (I'm unsure here).
1535 [18:55:42] <ElDiabolo> somiaj, I am just packaging one. No idea if others use that.
1536 [18:56:29] <somiaj> replaced-url
1537 [18:56:30] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1538 [18:56:32] <somiaj> Is that your bug?
1539 [18:56:56] <ElDiabolo> somiaj, I am just packaging one. No idea if others use that.9
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1541 [18:57:10] <ElDiabolo> Ooops.
1542 [18:57:33] <ElDiabolo> Thanks, that bug should explain it. I will read that.
1543 [18:57:45] <somiaj> If that isn't your bug, you could respond to it that you too are also packing something for debian using said license
1544 [18:57:52] <somiaj> the bug doesn't contain any more info that what you just supplied
1545 [18:58:02] <mason> ElDiabolo: replaced-url
1546 [18:58:26] <mason> ElDiabolo: If the FSF says it's non-free, that might have influenced Debian's use of it.
1547 [18:59:11] <somiaj> mason: though /usr/share/common-licenses/Artistic is in debian
1548 [18:59:33] <mason> Hrm, is Artistic 2 the clarified version then?
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1550 [18:59:42] <mason> Oh, duh, the article I linked says.
1551 [18:59:44] <jelly> DFSG definition of "free" differs from FSF definition
1552 [19:00:10] <mason> jelly: Right, but there can be influence. They're more alike than different if you discount the GFDL invariant clause thing.
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1554 [19:02:04] <jelly> replaced-url
1555 [19:02:37] <jelly> ElDiabolo, just ship a copy in the meantime
1556 [19:02:38] <ElDiabolo> mason, Actually Artistic 2 is FSF approved.
1557 [19:03:15] <ElDiabolo> jelly, I am currently looking for a plain text copy, yes :-)
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1559 [19:04:05] <b1ack0p> ElDiabolo II
1560 [19:04:11] <b1ack0p> -o
1561 [19:04:12] <mason> ElDiabolo: Ah, and the one included in Debian is distinctly v1.
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1564 [19:04:48] <jelly> ElDiabolo, funny how the link from the wiki page points to a 404
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1566 [19:05:12] <jelly> and replaced-url
1567 [19:05:21] <mason> ElDiabolo: replaced-url
1568 [19:06:20] <mason> jelly: There's also replaced-url
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1570 [19:07:38] <jelly> ElDiabolo, there's an Artistic-2 embedded in /usr/share/doc/perl-base/copyright among other things
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1572 [19:07:47] <sponix> ,v firefox-esr
1573 [19:07:48] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.11.0esr-1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security:
1574 [19:07:49] <judd> 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 68.12.0esr-1
1575 [19:08:49] <mason> Ah, jelly for the win with that find.
1576 [19:09:29] <jelly> ,i perl-base
1577 [19:09:31] <judd> Package perl-base (perl, required) in buster/amd64: minimal Perl system. Version: 5.28.1-6+deb10u1; Size: 1478.5k; Installed: 10148k; Homepage: replaced-url
1578 [19:09:50] <jelly> hard to have a debian installation without that file
1579 [19:11:00] <ElDiabolo> Thx.
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1590 [19:24:21] <Domy> hiya, i'm a fresh linux/debian user trying to setup his first flaptop; and i've run into what appears to be a bug with wifi. my sys admin recommended i come here for help.
1591 [19:25:15] <alex11> the thing with debian is it provides only free software by default and for wifi you probably need non-free firmware
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1593 [19:25:26] <alex11> so people installing on laptops generally use the non-free image
1594 [19:25:32] <Domy> sysadmin helped update and install the required software already asfar he knows
1595 [19:25:38] <Domy> So i select the correct channel & encryption type, and entered the password correctly (i checked a dozen bloody times) and it keeps telling me it's the wrong password
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1598 [19:33:32] <Domy> installed nonfree, rebooted, still having the same issues :/
1599 [19:33:46] <n4dir> to be sure you might want to let the users of this channel know which chipset it is and which driver is used. lspci -k, iirc Domy
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1601 [19:34:42] <n4dir> something like that works for me, but not saying it is a good or the right command: lspci -k | grep -A 3 Wireless
1602 [19:35:53] <n4dir> you could also enter the name of the device at wiki.debian.org for most you will find info
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1604 [19:39:55] <alex11> wrong password is weird though
1605 [19:40:44] <n4dir> would say the same, but to me wifi is weird in general :-)
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1608 [19:42:13] <Domy> linux bugs being wierd is something i understand is not that uncommon lol
1609 [19:42:36] <n4dir> as of no no one is sure it is a bug
1610 [19:42:41] <n4dir> now.
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1616 [19:49:39] <Domy> got it! had to install realtek firmware >.> thanks alot and have a great day
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1618 [19:50:16] <n4dir> ah, great. :-)
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1629 [19:57:37] <alex11> but that shouldn't have said wrong password without the firmware? well, weird
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1632 [20:04:15] <azeem> anybody know whether it is possible to plug a chromecast into the HDMI interface of a linux notebook and have it run on the display somehow?
1633 [20:05:01] <azeem> hrm, guess not
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1635 [20:05:37] <sney> yeah unlikely
1636 [20:05:42] <jmcnaught> Your laptop has an HDMI input? They're usually outputs.
1637 [20:05:57] <azeem> I didn't say it had an HDMI input
1638 [20:06:22] <mason> replaced-url
1639 [20:07:35] <mason> None of what I'm seeing suggests a hardware interface, so I'll join the chorus of "unlikely".
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1706 [21:30:10] <H4ndy> you need to get capture hardware to get HDMI input
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1724 [21:53:21] <blebz> I have a strange problem with my Wacom tablet. I have just installed Debian on my desktop and when I use my Wacom I get 2 mouse pointers.
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1726 [21:53:42] <blebz> Also Krita seems really broken and crashy..
1727 [21:53:54] <blebz> Can I help send a bug report or something?
1728 [21:54:58] <RoyK> !bugs
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1731 [21:55:50] <blebz> Lolz
1732 [21:58:14] *** Parts: zolympe1968211 (~jupiter@replaced-ip ) ()
1733 [21:58:15] <RoyK> blebz: I guess that means there are no bugs in debian…
1734 [21:58:42] <alex11> !bts
1735 [21:58:43] <dpkg> Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, replaced-url
1736 [21:59:00] <alex11> you can use reportbug or send an email
1737 [21:59:28] <blebz> OK thanks :-)
1738 [21:59:30] <sney> make sure you check for an existing bug before filing a new one.
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1763 [22:23:59] <crusoe> hi I just installed debian 10 in old pc. Is there anything I should install more now?
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1767 [22:25:11] <sney> crusoe: debian comes with what most people need. are you looking for something for a specific purpose?
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1770 [22:27:09] <crusoe> sney I would like to find a dark theme with nice icons
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1772 [22:27:45] <crusoe> sney I also want to find codecs for playing videos music video streaming etc
1773 [22:27:47] <sney> assuming you're using the default gnome desktop, check out gnome-look.org
1774 [22:28:01] <crusoe> I use xfce
1775 [22:28:03] <sney> it's 2020, you don't need codecs anymore, libav supports basically everything
1776 [22:28:21] <crusoe> sney is libav installed?
1777 [22:28:27] <sney> yes.
1778 [22:28:31] <crusoe> ok
1779 [22:28:36] <sney> for xfce themes I guess it's xfce-look.org
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1781 [22:28:55] <sney> debian usually includes a couple themes by default, so check your system settings too
1782 [22:30:54] <somiaj> (also themes are sometimes toolkit dependent, so you might have to set both gtk3 and qt themes -- xfce is mostly gtk3 I belive)
1783 [22:31:12] <sney> yep
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1795 [22:42:15] <strive> Any good dock's other than Plank?
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1805 [22:52:05] <diogenes_> strive, cairo dock, docky.
1806 [22:52:40] <somiaj> what do you want this dock to do?
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1815 [22:59:14] <strive> Ah, cairo! I'll give that a go. Plank felt too simple.
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1819 [23:01:43] <ws2k3> is there a linux command i can use to "read" a file? i would like to test how long it takes to read a file(its a binary fine)
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1827 [23:06:35] <RoyK> ws2k3: time dd if=filename of=/dev/null
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1830 [23:07:33] <RoyK> ws2k3: keep in mind that if the file is cached, it'll take very little time, but you can drop the cache/buffers first replaced-url
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1832 [23:09:48] <ws2k3> thx RoyK
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1838 [23:15:56] <RoyK> ws2k3: btw, add "if=1M" or similar to that dd line to have it read in larger blocks than its default 512b
1839 [23:16:19] <RoyK> see man dd for details
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1842 [23:16:33] <dvs> if=1M ???
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1844 [23:16:57] <RoyK> erm
1845 [23:16:59] <RoyK> bs=1M
1846 [23:17:02] <RoyK> sorry ;)
1847 [23:17:15] * RoyK is getting tired
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1858 [23:25:01] <JordiGH> I don't have a phone, so I want a camera that will play nicely with Debian. Any of you have any suggestions?
1859 [23:26:19] <tijara> shouldn't all cameras work fine with linux?
1860 [23:28:53] <sney> any uvc webcam will work, that's pretty much all of the common logitech/microsoft/etc usb varieties
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1868 [23:38:19] <somiaj> JordiGH: Though far less common (Due to most people having phones), you can get digital camearas that use sd cards, then just read the files off the card with a sd card reader (here I'm assuming picture camra vs webcam as sney mentioned)
1869 [23:38:49] <somiaj> and most of these digital cameras can also take movies, haev a built in screen/interface, and since the data is just on a sd card (written in vfat) easy to transfer to linux
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1871 [23:39:25] <JordiGH> tijara: I don't know anything, I was wondering if something would require Windows drivers or something.
1872 [23:39:38] <tijara> are you looking for a camera or a webcam
1873 [23:39:54] <tijara> cameras should just read as storage devices, so you shouldn't have problems
1874 [23:40:12] <tijara> webcams are more complicated at least in my experience
1875 [23:40:16] <JordiGH> I thought handheld cameras could also connect via hdmi or something?
1876 [23:40:44] <tijara> that's probably just to visualize the images/videos on a screen
1877 [23:41:39] <JordiGH> None of them have wifi or auto-download drivers or try to DRM pictures, do they?
1878 [23:41:44] <somiaj> JordiGH: depends on the camera, I have one that has that feature, but I never use it. I just copy the files off the sd card. Many will connect as a usb mass storage device
1879 [23:42:13] <JordiGH> Not sure how hostile the camera hardware landscape is these days.
1880 [23:42:27] <tijara> is this a thing with digital cameras?
1881 [23:42:40] <tijara> that sounds like a suicidal move for a manufacturer
1882 [23:42:45] <somiaj> The first two seem very odd to see on a digital camera, as for DRM pictures, I doubt provided they are mostly just tagged .jpegs
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1884 [23:43:14] <somiaj> also you wanting something like an SLR cameara (which is better quality and gives you images in raw format) or something that converst to .jpeg just fine (much cheaper)
1885 [23:43:21] <JordiGH> tijara: I thought DRM was a suicide for everything yet the market absolutely loves it.
1886 [23:43:25] <tijara> somiaj more modern cameras can be linked to your social media and have functionality related to that
1887 [23:43:32] <JordiGH> somiaj: Cheap is fine.
1888 [23:43:36] <tijara> like posting a photo directly on flickr
1889 [23:43:42] <JordiGH> oh god plz no
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1892 [23:44:36] <somiaj> hmm, surprised digital cameras want to add all those features, since I would assume anyone who wanted those features would just get a smart phone.
1893 [23:45:03] <somiaj> JordiGH: you should be able to find a decent high megapixle camera for not to much cost that would suit your needs. Though probably best to find one you think looks good then research it.
1894 [23:45:03] <tijara> I've seen this stuff years ago when cameras were still generally higher quality than phones
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1896 [23:45:27] <tijara> and it was on low end point and shoots
1897 [23:45:30] <JordiGH> Yeah, it must be weird to try get a camera 'cause you don't have a phone.
1898 [23:45:51] <tijara> I also want to do that when my phone kicks the bucket
1899 [23:46:18] <tijara> I take a lot of high res photos and open camera takes forever to process the files
1900 [23:46:19] <somiaj> I'd sell you my old camera, it is simple, fairly high quilty, and I never use it anymore....
1901 [23:46:24] <tijara> and performance in low light is awful
1902 [23:46:49] <tijara> I used to shoot analog
1903 [23:46:53] <somiaj> anyways, just joking there, with so much different hardware out there, it is hard to say what is available, but I would be surprised if you couldn't find a simple camera that does what you want.
1904 [23:47:17] <tijara> I'm going to sound like a hipster but film still beats most of everything
1905 [23:47:42] <tijara> at least under professional high end digital gear
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1907 [23:48:22] <tijara> also what camera do you want to get JordiGH a reflex, point and shoot, something in between?
1908 [23:48:51] <JordiGH> Uh... I don't know what those are.
1909 [23:49:00] <somiaj> It depends a lot on use case, the digital SLR cameras that write the image in a raw format are close to film (mostly just end up having less mega-pixels), but outside of that, all the lense/lighting/and that works just fine on adigital medium (if you get the file in a rwa format)
1910 [23:49:10] <JordiGH> somiaj: So why can't I buy your camera?
1911 [23:49:44] <somiaj> JordiGH: one, probably shouldn't try to sell stuff here, and two, might be a bit of work to get it to you.
1912 [23:49:52] <tijara> usually there are point and shoots which are small and compact and on the other end of the range there are reflex cameras with swappable lenses and larger bodies
1913 [23:50:05] <tijara> that's what a photoreporter would use
1914 [23:50:18] <JordiGH> somiaj: Eh, we've been on this IRC channel for how long now? We practically know each other's mothers at this point.
1915 [23:50:28] <JordiGH> But fair enough on the hassle of shipping.
1916 [23:51:06] <JordiGH> tijara: I want to take pictures of my lunch, not become an intrepid journalist.
1917 [23:51:53] <tijara> if you want to carry it around you should get a small p&s
1918 [23:51:59] <tijara> you're going to leave it at home otherwise
1919 [23:52:36] <JordiGH> There's not much going out these days, but okay, I learned I want a p&s.
1920 [23:52:37] <somiaj> anyways my old camera is a pentax wg-1 (though there is a newer pentax wg-2 now), small, simple, and decent photos, use to take it backpacking before I got smartphone
1921 [23:52:51] <somiaj> found various ones for sale online with a quick google search
1922 [23:53:02] <somiaj> something similar to that should work for you (there are cheaper ones out there that aren't fully water proof)
1923 [23:53:08] <JordiGH> I would get a smartphone if they didn't freak me the fuck out. I hate the idea of having hardware I don't control.
1924 [23:53:13] <tijara> compacts are all more or less the same, they have a bunch of presets to shoot at parties or at concerts, and maybe they're waterproof
1925 [23:54:07] <tijara> I ended up gifting my pentax k1000
1926 [23:54:07] <somiaj> though my old one (took it out) is all sticky for some reason, wonder if a battery exploded....
1927 [23:54:25] <tijara> does it have a rubberized grip?
1928 [23:54:28] <JordiGH> Hm, pentax wg-2 for five bucks on amazon.com but not .ca
1929 [23:55:13] <tijara> that soft grip on cameras always gets sticky when it's old
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1931 [23:55:24] <tijara> I have no idea if it's fixable.
1932 [23:55:33] <somiaj> I had good luck with pentax, went though two of them over 10 years, and their photo quality was decent (provided the lighting wasn't crazy, with poor lighting point and shoots do poor photos)
1933 [23:56:05] <somiaj> tijara: ahh that is probably it, sicne yea only the grib is sticky, but the screen/buttons/batter/sd card were just fine
1934 [23:56:16] <tijara> yeah it's the rubber that is gone bad
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1936 [23:56:28] <tijara> I avoid soft grip stuff because of that
1937 [23:56:59] <JordiGH> Wait, I can't read Amazon. It's 150 bucks for the camera, 5 for delivery.
1938 [23:57:56] <somiaj> JordiGH: there are lots of point and clicks or the $50 dollar range that are probably comperable to that. The camrea I have is a bit spendy mostly due to all of its 'rugged features' since I use it in hot/cold/rain/snow when backapcking
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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