3[00:04:23] <CyberManifest> foul_owl_: your gnome-clocks reminded me of the slashdot quote of something similar to: "I'd rather imagine little elves inside doing all the work."
16[00:10:33] <oxek> realistically, what is the point of using 'most' as a pager instead of 'less'? Less is at least being updated whereas most seems dead.
17[00:12:53] <tomreyn> was the response to this question when you asked it on ##linux not satifying?
18[00:13:27] *** Quits: tijara (~tijara@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
19[00:14:02] <tomreyn> generally, people have different preferences, and alternatives are always good to have available.
38[00:25:05] <sponix> oxek: having both "more" and "less" wasn't enough - so they added "most" ?
39[00:26:25] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
40[00:26:57] <oxek> yeah, but at least I get that 'more' is stripped down to occupy as little space as possible (for embedded, etc.), and 'less' has all the features possible.
41[00:27:03] <oxek> I don't see where 'most' fits in.
42[00:27:17] <sponix> oxek: other than a bad joke ?
43[00:27:33] <oxek> I do see the joke value
44[00:27:46] <sponix> On Ubuntu they gave into the newbs and created a "rename" command instead of just using mv from one name to another :P
45[00:27:54] <oxek> I like how it colors manpages when used as a pager for man, but I can probably get that done with 'less' too.
46[00:27:57] <sponix> maybe most falls in this category
47[00:28:53] <oxek> 'rename' (both the perl version, and the version from util-linux) both have more functionality than 'mv' though.
48[00:29:25] <oxek> unless ubuntu made something that is literally an alias to mv
49[00:30:02] <sponix> not sure, never cared to research it further. just had some new user swear it existed, so I verified that it does
151[02:13:20] <Case_Of> hi, what package could contain perl Mozilla::CA library?
152[02:13:23] *** Quits: Dara (~Dara_Simc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
153[02:15:02] <alexrelis[m]> I'm having a strange problem on my sister's laptop. So I replaced the keyboard and fan recently, and for whatever reason on Debian, the system shuts down a few seconds to a minute after boot. This doesn't happen on Windows. And it doesn't happen when I leave the BIOS settings running.
154[02:15:17] <alexrelis[m]> And it's not an abrupt shutdown. It's simply a graceful shutdown, almost as if I pressed the power button.
160[02:18:39] <alexrelis[m]> Well, sometimes it doesn't turn off to the point where I can type in the username. But then it shuts off soon after. And then there are times where it shuts off when systemd boots.
161[02:19:42] <short-bike> Anything logged in dmesg ?
216[03:15:55] <sney> got the virtualbox factoid updated at least. the old one read too much like an endorsement.
217[03:15:57] <sney> !virtualbox
218[03:15:58] <dpkg> Oracle VM VirtualBox is a software virtual machine solution. Not in buster and unlikely to be in any future debian stable releases due to #794466. 3rd party packages are available from Oracle, see replaced-url
255[03:46:39] <sney> the main point is that if someone wants a point-and-clicky VM manager in debian, virt-manager should be their first choice, but if they need virtualbox-brand virtualbox, they can go to that wiki link.
256[03:47:08] <sney> they don't need a oneliner kludge from dpkg explaining how to add a 3rd party repository.
257[03:48:21] <somiaj> Yup, I just found it strange when I read it, but from someone who just wants an easy to install vm system it is the way to go, though isn't gnome-boxes becomming more popular too?
278[03:58:58] <sney> in all except hyper-v, really
279[03:59:16] <ryouma> the main thing i was doing was trying to install debian while running debian. using a pass through something or other to disk. it was able to do that. and i was able to get it to hav its menus and so on use large fonts.
280[03:59:20] <sney> not specifically to do with font size, but some display issues, and disk or network i/o as well
281[03:59:59] <Casper26> I installed firefox 80 in /opt/firefox how can i get it to launch in terminal by just typing firefox? I already removed firefox-esr.
282[04:00:07] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
283[04:00:36] <sney> symlink the firefox binary to /usr/local/bin, is probably what I would do
284[04:01:42] <sney> mozilla may have an official recommendation on their website.
287[04:03:10] <ryouma> (installing debian from cd is a burden for me because of the need to physically put the cd in and the bright blue and bright white and the small fonts and the fact that i can't do other things at the same time and so on; i was able to, althought perhaps slighly brokenly, get that to work. it was good, but a lot of effort.)
316[04:39:50] <sney> if you're having trouble with a missing dependency, check out equivs. otherwise, actually fix the problem.
317[04:40:23] <GaiusCaesar> yeah, I kludge most things, afai recall --nodepends was a way to install something and not get all the extra libs or so, eg kde app on buster
318[04:40:27] <GaiusCaesar> kalarm
319[04:41:35] <GaiusCaesar> it wants 64MB
320[04:42:22] <somiaj> you want --no-install-recommendeds, but expect some things to not work as a result, there is also an apt.conf option to disable recommends by default (not recommended)
324[04:54:50] <ryouma> there is also the option of periodically purging stuff like htat. here is my amateur script: apt-get -o "Apt::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant=false" purge `aptitude search ~c | db wsv2o` `deborphan ${1:+--guess-all}`
325[04:55:04] <ryouma> plus autoremove which workssometimes
326[04:55:39] <somiaj> I think there is some packages that use recommended when it should be suggested, but in general by defaintion most will want recommended packages.
332[05:00:48] <fuxxy> I got strace installed on my openwrt device, but there's a perl project to help decode strace. Am I correct in the assumption that I can pipe the strace output to my debian box to the perl script?
333[05:02:12] <sponix> I didn't know strace was encoded
334[05:03:38] <fuxxy> it's "encoded" as in escaped C, from my understanding
335[05:04:23] <sponix> you have something crashing ?
336[05:06:01] <fuxxy> It's not crashing. It's a closed source program that's hammering my NTP server. I'll keep reading on my own.
337[05:06:46] <sponix> fuxxy: interesting
338[05:11:39] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
349[05:14:08] <somiaj> fling: sounds like an XY problem, what issue are you having. If running debian stable things should just work. If you are having trouble with apt, please provide the following information
350[05:14:12] <somiaj> !bat
351[05:14:12] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
352[05:14:13] <gry> fling: are you speaking with me?
354[05:14:25] <fling> gry: yes, I suggest trying lxd instead
355[05:15:13] <fling> somiaj: I want to have few config files mounted readonly and I don't want apt to worry about not being able to rewrite them or to make it to not even try writing
360[05:16:25] <sponix> gry: pretty sure on my rig, putting my user in the libvirt and libvirt-qemu groups helped me do things
361[05:16:42] <somiaj> fling: first dpkg (since that is the actual programing installing) won't overwrite config files unless you give it permission. So if you make modifications to configuration files, dpkg will leave them alone. What config files do you have mounted read only?
362[05:16:49] <gry> sponix: ok :)
363[05:16:49] <sponix> fling: a config file can be made to be just read only, doesn't need to be mounted on a read only file system for that
364[05:17:32] *** Quits: gry (~test@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
365[05:17:33] <fling> sponix: I know about chattr +i, but the config files will be mounted from another host
366[05:17:40] <fling> sponix: thanks for the info!
367[05:17:45] <somiaj> gry: also be careful, are your vms in the user or system uri (there is qemu://user and qemu://system, and virt-manager will use system by default and thus as sponix pointed out you need to be in the proper groups)
368[05:17:46] <jmcnaught> You only need to be in the libvirt group.
369[05:18:16] <somiaj> sory qemu:///session (Which is for the user)
371[05:18:59] <somiaj> I personally have to set export LIBVIRT_DEFAULT_URI="qemu:///system" to make sure virsh by default access the system (which is what virt-manager uses by default)
372[05:19:42] <sponix> somiaj: is that better ?
373[05:19:48] <somiaj> fling: can you give an example of the configuration file a package is trying to overwrite, (just want to make sure it is a config file regerested with debconf)
374[05:20:38] <fling> somiaj: don't have one yet, still planning.
375[05:20:46] <fling> I will tell you more if/when I hit an issue.
376[05:20:52] <somiaj> sponix: My understanding is it is more a management decision. When I first started using vms, I installed with root, so had to change the URI so my user could also access them.
379[05:22:03] <somiaj> fling: in general actual config files (if you modify them, so make sure they are different even if just you just put in a comment), dpkg will not overwrite them once the package is installed. It will aks you what to do, and then create a configfile.dpkg (or something like that) with the system one and leave your user one alone.
380[05:22:22] <somiaj> so just mount the config files after the install of the package (there maybe ways to tell debconf about the config ahead of time, but not certain here)
381[05:23:02] <sponix> somiaj: hmm, I've always been under the impression from a security standpoint doing things with the least privileged account possible was better. And normally things I put in VMs are to keep them contained. Thus running them as a user in user mode vs system/root
382[05:23:57] <somiaj> sponix: I think if either root or the user does the work, in the end it is libvirt user's permissions the vm has. It is just a matter of which vms virsh can see.
383[05:25:05] <fling> somiaj: ok got it
384[05:25:23] <jmcnaught> libvirt runs the VMs in qemu:///system as the user & group libvirt-qemu, so it gets reduced privileges, but you don't want your user to be in the libvirt-qemu group, only the libvirt group is needed to control libvirt.
385[05:25:45] <sponix> somiaj: interesting
386[05:26:01] <somiaj> guess I was mistaken. replaced-url
387[05:26:24] <somiaj> seems virt-manager defaults to qemu:///system just because that is what it was doing before qemusessions were worked out.
388[05:26:57] <somiaj> I was more just pointing out that if the vms are in qemu:///session then virt-manager won't see them by default (though wasn't very clear about that)
390[05:29:49] <somiaj> though at least on debian, you don't need the root password to access qemu:///system, being in the correct groups is fine.
391[05:32:32] <somiaj> (reading that over, I think I ended up using qemu:///system due to networking and setting up the bridge, as that was the easiest way I found at the time)
392[05:32:58] <jmcnaught> Yeah you're limited to user mode networking with qemu:///session
393[05:34:02] <sponix> jmcnaught: what "limits" does that impose ?
394[05:34:06] <sponix> vs system
395[05:35:46] <jmcnaught> sponix: with user mode networking you will not be able to access the guest from the host. The guest will be able to access the host and the internet, but this wouldn't work for something like learning apache2 in a VM.
396[05:35:57] <somiaj> sponix: the limits seem to be that you end up having to become root to configure the networking, then the session can access it.
431[06:25:07] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
432[06:26:09] <somiaj> okay, I think I am just in that group as I fumbled around figuring out what groups I needed, and then have just coppied it over. Thanks
433[06:26:48] <jmcnaught> On your own system there's probably little risk, my point was more that only libvirt group membership is needed.
437[06:29:21] <somiaj> Understood, but would rather limit the groups I'm in if it isn't needed. I have just been using the groups I found that work without to much tought, which is probably poor decision on my part.
635[09:53:23] <Dungeon> [01:56] <Dungeon> are there any hardware techs in the house?
636[09:53:23] <Dungeon> [01:56] <Dungeon> i got a 1tb drive that is detecting in the bios and is in deed spinning up but it comes back with 0 size within the drive policy.
637[09:53:23] <Dungeon> [01:57] <Dungeon> however it passes the smart check and quick and long checks. it just wont even start to write to the drive itself
642[09:56:26] <kale> hi guys, would you happen to know if mbr supports partitioning for a 4TB disk?
643[09:56:52] <klys> no, that goes up to 2 TiB.
644[09:57:07] <klys> hybrid isn't an option either if you use windows
645[09:57:14] <kale> klys: ok thanks. is the viable alternative gpt then?
646[09:57:31] <klys> kale, yes, depending on how viable you need
647[09:59:02] <kale> klys: i think i will gradually switch to gpt for partitioning, many years ago i saw i bios that could boot mbr, but not gpt, so i wanted to wait some years before switching. i do not think problems like that happens on newer systems.
648[09:59:13] *** _Posterdati_ is now known as Posterdati
649[10:00:58] <kale> what partition type do i choose for luks encryption? "linux-filesystem"?
650[10:02:41] *** Quits: maggotbrain (~maggotbra@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
651[10:02:45] <wyoung> kale: Neither, you setup the encryption, a new device is creted under /dev then you create a lvm volume on it or a single file system.
652[10:03:23] <wyoung> kale: There is a special partition type for luks you can use but you dont have to.
653[10:03:32] <gry> how do i enable webcam and mic access in virt-manager?
654[10:03:53] <kale> wyoung: well, i will have to set up the encryption one something. here that is a partition in gpt. and for that partition i need to choose the type. are you saying that i will choose the type for whatever is encrypted?
655[10:04:59] <wyoung> kale: There is a type for encryption or use linuc, 83 or 82 what ever the hex code for it is
656[10:06:46] *** Joins: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip)
657[10:07:00] <kale> the closest thing i can find in cfdisk on a gpt partition is "linux server data" or "linux filesystem"
660[10:10:12] <ratrace> kale: it really doesn't matter, luks has its own identification headers
661[10:11:09] <kale> ratrace: ok i'll stick to "linux filesystem" then. i just thought that this being the new partitioning scheme, would have such type.
662[10:11:52] <ratrace> kale: well there is, e8 is for LUKS, and 83 is generic linux filesystem.
692[10:29:16] <ratrace> kale: well I'd argue that the "correct" thing here is that in general those guids are rarely used, and one shouldn't bother with distinction within "linux filesystem" group. there are few exceptions like efi and bios_boot being marked specifically.
693[10:29:34] <ratrace> eg, I have yet to see a linux distro installer set these other than generic linux filesystem
695[10:31:08] <kale> ratrace: ah ok, so this might also affect applications that does not know about the luks partition type, so they will be unable to handle it
696[10:31:21] <kale> like cfdisk does not have that type
697[10:32:24] <ratrace> kale: not sure what you mean by "not being able to handle it", unless you just mean set or change the partition type GUID
698[10:33:10] <ratrace> but if you really wanna bother, you can set the type guids with gdisk. list of guids: ttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GPT_fdisk#Partition_type
703[10:35:22] <ratrace> the type for bios boot efi are important so the firmware and boot loader can directly see it without needing to carry complex autodetection code. but once /boot is found, linux doesn't care any more, it uses filesystems, lvm headers, mdadm headers, luks headers, to autodetect. kinda like it doesn't care about filename extension but uses mimetype magic
706[10:36:12] <kale> yes, i really hate that efi stuff
707[10:38:04] <ratrace> although with luks specifically, the userland needs to be told what to do (eg, you need to specifically mark and state the rootfs luks container), because it can't assume contents without unlocking
708[10:38:27] <ratrace> this btw is done automatically by grub and initramfs hooks
709[10:38:41] *** Quits: Kuttenbrunzer (~Kuttenbru@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
710[10:39:29] <ratrace> you only need /etc/crypttab entries to tell initramfs what to unlock on boot
804[12:55:51] <leafwiz> I found this on an Arch wiki "To start the daemon for a specific interface alone, start/enable the template unit dhcpcd@interface.service, where interface can be found with Network configuration#Listing network interfaces."
805[12:56:31] <leafwiz> i tried systemctl enable dhcpcd@wlan0.service
830[13:23:47] <oxek> Can somone help me reproduce a bug in tmux? I found a way of making tmux stop responding, occupy 100% of one CPU core, and only be able to be killed by kill -9, not by SIGTERM.
831[13:23:50] <oxek> These are the rough steps: replaced-url
842[13:39:50] *** Quits: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
843[13:42:25] <mi11k1> nebody up to date with android boxes? I have old Jynxboxlive. On the chip is printed "Rockchip RK3066A" . I would like to flash it with Debian
844[13:43:02] <mi11k1> do I just need custom recovery to move ahead?
896[14:43:11] <ksk> Have you looked at replaced-url
897[14:44:12] <leafwiz> Yes, I'm just trying to do it the systemd way. But after being guided by #systemd it does not seem to work.
898[14:44:14] <ksk> see the Remark "Bridging with a wireless NIC" also, still not 100% sure what you are trying to do here..
899[14:44:24] <ksk> !does not work
900[14:44:25] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
902[14:44:45] <leafwiz> Okay, maybe that is not a good idea
903[14:44:53] <leafwiz> to bridge with a wlan int
904[14:45:00] * zerocode is away: (automatically dead ) [BX-MsgLog On]
905[14:45:00] * zerocode is idle, automatically dead [bX(l/on p/off)]
906[14:45:03] <leafwiz> Just thoguht that it would be the same lan
907[14:45:13] <leafwiz> for my dhcpd
908[14:46:15] <leafwiz> But I have decided after three hours fiddling with systemd and debian that I will just install devuan and do it the classic way.
927[14:55:13] <tomreyn> this is usually due to an invalid (at the time) network configuration, such as depending on other network devices which are not yet available or configured, or involving hooks which aren't available at this boot stage
1041[16:12:04] <Eryn_1983_FL> is this somebody trying to break in?
1042[16:12:06] <Eryn_1983_FL> solan sshd[20242]: Unable to negotiate with 103.133.110.117 port 38776:
1043[16:12:08] <Eryn_1983_FL> no matching key exchange method found. Their offer: diffie-hellman-group1-sha1 [preauth]
1044[16:14:08] <cluonbeam> Eryn_1983_FL: Looks like they're using deprecated crypto settings. PS: If you have a system exposed to the internet, people are always trying to break in. Use secure passwords and don't worry about them. Or, better yet, set up multi-factor authentication, or prohibit password logins entirely and use only SSH keys.
1045[16:15:19] <Eryn_1983_FL> i use keys
1046[16:15:24] <Eryn_1983_FL> and i upgrade regular
1047[16:15:30] <Eryn_1983_FL> and i got fail2ban
1048[16:15:38] <Eryn_1983_FL> not sure why i got like 10 of those though
1049[16:17:21] <cluonbeam> It'll happen. Even fail2ban, in my opinion, is of minimal value.
1050[16:17:48] <oxek> SanchoPensa: espeak-ng or festival
1051[16:17:50] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah they keep hopping ips on their global botnets..
1052[16:17:54] <oxek> SanchoPensa: both are pretty bad though
1053[16:18:01] <cluonbeam> Eryn_1983_FL: That and why care about failed logins?
1054[16:18:03] <Eryn_1983_FL> wish i had a global botnet, for good..
1055[16:18:08] <Eryn_1983_FL> i was curious
1056[16:18:13] <SanchoPensa> oxek: heh, thanks
1057[16:18:13] <Eryn_1983_FL> i was looking at the log
1058[16:18:25] <cluonbeam> Eryn_1983_FL: Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant. Why take any action on failed logins?
1059[16:18:25] <SanchoPensa> is there really nothing, that is actually usable?
1060[16:18:29] <cluonbeam> e.g. fail2ban
1061[16:18:44] <Eryn_1983_FL> to keep em from trying something else.
1062[16:18:55] <Eryn_1983_FL> so maybe they start with ssh and then try to go attack http https
1063[16:19:04] <Eryn_1983_FL> or another one of my ports,
1064[16:19:06] <cluonbeam> That's not really how that works.
1065[16:19:28] <Eryn_1983_FL> then how does it work cluonbeam
1066[16:19:55] <cluonbeam> They're broad sweeps across the internet, looking for weak SSH credentials. They're looking for low-hanging fruit. They're automated in that search. No one is going to expend the energy trying to break into YOUR web server if basic SSH attacks don't work.
1067[16:20:12] <cluonbeam> You'll see that in the way they try common usernames.
1068[16:20:16] <Eryn_1983_FL> well if their pissed off at me they might
1069[16:20:35] <cluonbeam> A random person in China/Russia/Korea/insert other country doesn't even know who you are.
1070[16:20:42] <Eryn_1983_FL> my so tends to piss off people on the net and our cable modem has gone out several times...
1071[16:20:48] <cluonbeam> And you can't really piss off a botnet unless we've made GREAT strides in AI development.
1072[16:21:04] <cluonbeam> Eryn_1983_FL: Again, no one is going to expend the energy. You are not a valuable target.
1073[16:21:11] <Eryn_1983_FL> well 9/10 are botnets
1095[16:53:18] <oxek> sometimes, when a manpage for a command is not available, I am told "See 'man 7 undocumented' for help when manual pages are not available."
1096[16:53:48] <oxek> but 'man 7 undocumented' says "No manual entry for undocumented in section 7"
1097[16:54:21] <oxek> what am I supposed to do?
1098[16:54:40] <ratrace> "exception X raised. in addition, execption Y raised when handling the X exception"
1099[16:55:16] <ratrace> oxek: btw, which manpage is missing, aside from undocumented(7)?
1106[17:01:15] <ratrace> oxek: first of, it's firefox-esr manpage (`man firefox-esr`)
1107[17:01:17] <oxek> (I know there's man firefox-esr, I'm using this as a demonstration that 'man 7 undocumented' appearently leads nowhere)
1108[17:01:50] <ratrace> right. and frankly this is the frist time I see that comment, about undocumented(7). eg `man dfjghdfklghdfklgfj` doesn't show it
1109[17:02:18] <oxek> yeah I tried `man adsdfasdfasdf` and it did not show either
1114[17:04:07] <ratrace> (though it's in section 1)
1115[17:04:41] <oxek> yeah, that's weird too
1116[17:04:59] <ratrace> oxek: you seem to be hitting all these weird edge cases lately :) unlisted but installable packages, missing manpages singled out with undocumented(7) suggestions, .... :)
1117[17:05:09] <oxek> I know :(
1118[17:05:47] <oxek> put me in front of a working computer and within 30 minutes I'll find a bug
1126[17:17:25] <kittonian> need some serious help really fast please. i'm freaking out. i was backing up a file into a tarball and typed the command backwards and now the file I needed to backup is like 45 bytes instead of over 4gb
1127[17:17:35] <oxek> #506653 #39830 #32019 related
1134[17:19:07] <oxek> kittonian: do you have any previous backups?
1135[17:19:34] <kittonian> obviously not for a while
1136[17:19:48] <kittonian> that's what I found today and why I was making the backup
1137[17:20:02] <oxek> honestly, if it is something of irreplaceable value, contact one of those data recovery services and expect to pay $$$$
1138[17:20:11] <oxek> there's little you can do on your own
1139[17:20:32] <oxek> and any attempts to recover the data can make stuff even worse, like playing around with testdisk
1140[17:21:58] <oxek> sorry for your loss
1141[17:24:07] <ratrace> The making of a data backup proponent, in action :)
1142[17:25:19] <ratrace> for your next backup system setup, I recommend a ZFS mirror. or you can use one disk but then I'd recommend copies=2. doesn't help if whole disk fails, but does offer redundancy in case of corruption
1194[18:36:15] <sney> it's not clear why 3.0 hasn't been packaged yet, but they are apparently 2 separate libraries that can be installed simultaneously, according to this wishlist bug: replaced-url
1202[18:38:49] *** Quits: usr1987 (~usr1987@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1203[18:39:41] <sney> you can go to #debian-mentors on OFTC if you're interested in packaging it yourself. I know it's not usually recommended for a library to be someone's first package, but if you're familiar with it, that might not be an issue
1248[18:54:54] <sney> you could send the authorities a screenshot. hard to know the jurisdiction of random stuff on the internet but maybe interpol is a good place to start?
1249[18:55:34] <cluonbeam> If the service is hosted in the US, the FBI/NCMEC (national center for missing/exploited children) has an online portal for these things.
1250[18:55:50] <coconut> sounds well
1251[18:56:09] <sney> I'm pretty sure paste is hosted in germany
1256[18:57:38] <cluonbeam> I wouldn't be surprised if the German government has some similar facility. Interpol might not be a bad idea either, as sney said.
1258[18:59:08] <kittonian> another, ext3. sorry for the delay but i'm freaking out and in a bunch of different conversations. the best I can think of at this point is that I rm -r -f a file called Data.fs.old and if I can somehow recover that, I will be ok
1263[18:59:57] <cluonbeam> kittonian: You've overwritten the beginning of the file. The rest of it is just orphaned blocks, and there's no longer any structure to find.
1264[18:59:59] <kittonian> just don't know how else to track this down since I've seen a lot of people saying that extundelete doesn't find all the files
1265[19:00:20] <cluonbeam> kittonian: If you need to recover this data, you should seek professional services and stop futzing with it before you fully destroy it.
1266[19:01:03] <kittonian> btw, i appreciate any assistance but i do not need anyone telling me how stupid this was. i already know and it's not a joke. this is the last 6 months of work and yes, it should've been being backed up, and when I noticed it hadn't today, i immediately went to back it up and typed the tar command backwards, thus overwriting the file.
1268[19:01:43] <cluonbeam> kittonian: Not trying to badger you. Just trying to save you from further damage.
1269[19:01:46] <kittonian> i cannot seek professional services, though i'm happy to pay whatever it costs to get this back, because this is a Linode and I spoke to them and they told me, maybe i could find someone who could do this without accessing the disk
1270[19:02:01] <kittonian> i would be more than happy to pay someone to get this back right now
1271[19:02:09] <kittonian> and i really don't care what it costs
1272[19:02:10] <cluonbeam> kittonian: Did you have their backup service enabled?
1273[19:02:14] <kittonian> i did not
1274[19:02:17] <sney> photorec is another utility used for recovering deleted files, but if you overwrote the file that you need, it's likely that it's just gone
1275[19:02:23] <kittonian> or else i wouldn't be having this issue
1276[19:02:24] <cluonbeam> Then I don't believe that you have any recourse.
1277[19:02:52] <kittonian> i literally deleted the file and didn't do anything else besides run the bad tar command before rebooting into rescue mode
1278[19:02:54] <another> did you copy it anywhere else? git repo?
1280[19:03:03] <kittonian> there's no way i could have overwritten it
1281[19:03:11] <kittonian> it was almost immediate
1282[19:03:21] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1283[19:03:22] <kittonian> like within 10 minutes or so of me deleting it
1284[19:03:34] <kittonian> another, believe me, if I had it anywhere else I would be fine
1285[19:03:41] <cluonbeam> kittonian: But you did. You overwrote the first block of the file, separating it from any of the rest of the on-disk structure. It's not like just deleting it.
1286[19:03:43] <kittonian> this is not something I'm forgetting is there
1287[19:04:04] <kittonian> cluonbeam, i did?
1288[19:04:45] <cluonbeam> Yes. You output data to an existing file, and that involved a truncation. There is no longer any association between that block of the file and any of what else is on the disk.
1289[19:04:53] <kittonian> no
1290[19:05:00] <kittonian> i had a copy of that file that I deleted
1291[19:05:05] <kittonian> that's what I'm trying to recover
1292[19:05:23] <kittonian> the Data.fs file was overwritten. the Data.fs.old file is what I rm -r -f
1293[19:05:32] <kittonian> i'm looking for Data.fs.old
1294[19:05:36] *** Quits: Deknos (~deknos@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1336[19:44:05] <cluonbeam> kittonian: Files that no longer exist no longer have a name. You're searching for the content, not the name.
1337[19:44:49] <kittonian> ok, so since I am looking for an FS file, and I specified that in the file list in photorec, it doesn't matter what the file is named
1363[20:04:41] <oxek> truly, contact a professional
1364[20:05:34] <sney> most professional file recovery is based on having the physical disk, and in this case the disk is an image in a linode-owned array in a datacenter somewhere
1377[20:16:15] <kittonian> but it didn't recover the file
1378[20:16:31] <moldy> ah, ok
1379[20:16:49] <kittonian> so now i'm trying ext3grep
1380[20:17:03] <moldy> in that case the next option i see is to get someone with knowledge about the exact format used by zope and see if they can come up with a custom solution maybe
1381[20:17:25] <kittonian> unfortunately, i know one of the initial devs and he already tried helping and couldn't
1382[20:17:41] <kittonian> basically i have to recover this file somehow or i've set multiple companies back 6 mo
1383[20:18:50] <moldy> the initial dev doesn't necessarily know the specifics of the internal database format
1384[20:18:57] <moldy> i'd talk to a plone / zope expert
1386[20:20:12] <moldy> i know that zope uses some kind of custom version of python's pickle format, but i don't know the exact details
1387[20:20:54] <moldy> like, which pickle protocol version, and what the exact customizations are. but some of the plone / zope core devs can probably tell you, or maybe you can research it yourself
1388[20:21:30] <oxek> kittonian: are you absolutely sure you are the only one who has had that single file in the last 6 months?
1389[20:21:55] <moldy> kittonian: oh and also, i'd contact linode. maybe they do have some kind of unofficial backup they can give you
1390[20:22:35] <kittonian> am i sure? pretty sure because it's my server and i'm the only one with access
1391[20:22:52] <kittonian> already contacted linode. no help there
1392[20:23:01] *** Quits: gelignite (~gelignite@replaced-ip) (Quit: Stay safe! Stay at home! Stop the chain reaction!)
1393[20:23:08] <oxek> contact them again
1394[20:23:40] <moldy> i probably don't have to tell you that next time, you should setup proper incremental backups and store them on a separate system ;)
1399[20:26:01] <kittonian> moldy, that is so unhelpful and if you read above you will see i already addressed that
1400[20:26:07] <kittonian> this is not funny
1401[20:26:11] <kittonian> and is not time for lectures
1402[20:26:20] <kittonian> this is not a game. these are people's lives
1403[20:27:14] <moldy> it wasn't meant to be unhelpful
1404[20:27:25] <et09> kittonian: as he said it sounds like your only chance is doing a physical backup of the driver and a byte-by-byte scan for what you're looking for
1405[20:27:29] <moldy> i just wanted to make sure you know how to avoid this fromhappening again
1406[20:27:29] <et09> drive *
1407[20:27:42] <moldy> et09: yeah, but i wouldn't be surprised if they also have some internal backups that they could theoretically make available
1408[20:27:47] <et09> but as a rule, backups are an essential failsafe and often you only learn that by a horrifying mishap
1409[20:27:48] <kittonian> et09, i cannot gain physical access to the drive
1410[20:27:55] <kittonian> i can't keep repeating myself here
1411[20:28:06] <kittonian> linodes are not separate physical drives for each user
1412[20:28:15] <et09> the storage is on a physical drive
1413[20:28:19] <et09> virtualized or not
1414[20:28:28] <kittonian> and they are no help in getting this resolved. i offered them as much as they wanted to charge me and they still said it was outside of their scope to assist
1415[20:28:33] <moldy> thought it would probably take more than contacting their usual first-level support to get them to do so
1421[20:29:23] <et09> the larger the file, and the longer since it's been erased, the less likely it's recoverable
1422[20:29:39] <kittonian> et09, it was erased 10 min before I rebooted into rescue mode to save it
1423[20:29:44] <kittonian> and that's where I'm at
1424[20:29:47] <kittonian> nothing else was done
1425[20:30:09] <et09> think of what the file is on disk. it's a sequence of bytes of some given format. it's most identifiable by the header of the file, but in theory any part of the file should be identifiable, provided that the reads those tools are doing are scanning the same locations on disc that were there originally
1426[20:30:28] <kittonian> ok, so?
1427[20:30:33] <kittonian> how does that help me?
1428[20:30:47] <et09> so to recover any part of it you have to back up the contents of the physical disk and scan them
1429[20:30:54] <et09> through any means
1430[20:30:55] <kittonian> the question was whether these utilities has a file size cutoff
1431[20:30:59] <moldy> you could search for certain contents of the file on the raw disk image
1432[20:31:15] <et09> i doubt it
1433[20:31:22] <moldy> but for that, you first have to know the file format. the first thing i'd find out is whether this is using the ascii or the binary pickle format
1434[20:31:22] <et09> but
1435[20:31:24] <kittonian> they are certainly finding much older files that were deleted
1436[20:31:27] <kittonian> just not this one
1437[20:31:41] <et09> to recover the whole file, if it was a large file, it's less likely it was stored contiguously
1438[20:31:48] <kittonian> in fact, photorec recovered thousands of old files, to the point it ran out of disk space to continue
1439[20:31:53] <et09> and since the fs headers describing the location of the file are gone, that's a problem
1440[20:32:01] <moldy> this is probably documented somewhere at zope. or ask an expert.
1441[20:32:35] <kittonian> moldy, zope doesn't exist anymore and i already said, a friend of mine is an original dev and he couldn't help either after trying a bunch of things
1442[20:32:42] <kittonian> my only option is to recover this file
1443[20:32:44] <kittonian> that's it
1444[20:32:47] <kittonian> there is no other option
1445[20:33:06] <moldy> kittonian: the zope docs do exist, as do zope experts
1446[20:33:13] <kittonian> moldy, stop
1447[20:33:16] <kittonian> seriously, stop
1448[20:33:28] <moldy> yes, i am trying to tell you *how* to recover the file...
1449[20:33:32] <kittonian> no you are not
1450[20:33:36] <kittonian> because you are not listening
1451[20:33:38] <oxek> kittonian: post your problem somewhere on reddit or hackernews or some other place like that, with a bounty.
1452[20:33:40] <moldy> ok. good luck.
1453[20:33:51] <kittonian> my friend is one of the original zope developers. he literally created zope
1454[20:33:52] <et09> yeah upwork maybe
1455[20:34:02] <kittonian> he is the one who tried to assist before anyone else and couldn't
1456[20:34:08] <oxek> kittonian: there's nothing we can do beyond all the help we've already provided
1457[20:34:29] <et09> kittonian: if you can't recover the whole file, you have to recover it piece by piece. this is your only available game plan
1458[20:34:34] <kittonian> then linode support really screwed me because they had me reboot into rescue mode, which means all of the zope db info that I could access, is now gone because after a reboot the memory is cleared
1459[20:34:38] <moldy> if he created zope he can probably instantly answer which pickle protocol this is based upon, which is likely crucial information for any further recovery attempts.
1461[20:35:08] <kittonian> i am trying every file recover option i can get my hands on
1462[20:35:11] <oxek> If I lost some data, I'd contact a data recovery expert and ask them if they have any experience with linode. Some company will have experience, and will even tell you they have a contract with them, etc.
1463[20:35:25] <kittonian> i would love other suggestions if possible. already tried extundelete, ext3grep, photorec, and testdisk
1464[20:35:54] <moldy> scalpel. but if those all failed, it will likely also fail. but hey, worth a try.
1465[20:36:17] <oxek> kittonian: that's why we initially told you not to reboot, and contact an expert.
1477[20:39:28] <alex11> just type apt show, type a few letters and let bash autocomplete stuff for you
1478[20:39:39] <jim> ,i v4l2loopback-utils
1479[20:39:41] <judd> Package v4l2loopback-utils (graphics, optional) in buster/amd64: Commandline utilities for the for the v4l2-loopback module. Version: 0.12.1-1; Size: 19.5k; Installed: 37k; Homepage: replaced-url
1480[20:40:02] <jim> for the for the :)
1481[20:41:32] <jim> I'll do some more judd queries in private... thanks a lot
1485[20:44:39] <kittonian> moldy, what does that have to do with getting the file back?
1486[20:44:57] <kittonian> it's zope 2.13.29
1487[20:45:15] <moldy> kittonian: as i told a couple of times now, it is absolutely crucial to get the file back if the "obvious" approach using photorec et al. doesn't work
1488[20:45:36] <kittonian> ?
1489[20:45:56] <moldy> kittonian: you can use this information to patch photorec for example, or (probably easier), you know what values to pass to ext3grep --search
1490[20:46:01] <et09> kittonian: here's my file, ZOPE__{a:25}{b:30} with pickle v1, [a:25],[b:30] with pickle v2 (not really but pretend)
1492[20:46:17] <et09> if your disk looks like sdoghasdgoiashgoasidhgaosdighZOPE__{a:25}{b:30}dofighsogihsdfogisdhfgoisdfg
1493[20:46:22] <et09> how you gonna find that in there
1494[20:46:32] <kittonian> i have no idea
1495[20:46:39] <et09> that is the problem before you
1496[20:46:52] <et09> it's possible the ZOPE part got deleted
1497[20:46:58] <et09> so all you can look for is the {a:25}{b:30}
1498[20:46:59] <moldy> iirc zodb format is append-only, so if you can find the start of the file, your chances of restoring most of it even if a part is lost might be pretty high
1499[20:47:24] <kittonian> ok, where do I even start with that
1500[20:47:39] <et09> well, if you make a file backup of the disk, you scan the backup for what you're looking for
1501[20:47:47] <et09> it's slow but that's what's in front of yo
1502[20:47:48] <et09> you
1503[20:47:58] <kittonian> tell me what to do and I'll do it
1504[20:48:07] <et09> i don't know what's in the files
1505[20:48:08] <moldy> kittonian: 1) check which pickle format it is (replaced-url
1506[20:48:09] <et09> but you have to find it
1507[20:48:24] <et09> i'm just explaining the outline of the process to you
1508[20:49:19] <kittonian> moldy, it's 2.13.19, older than anything on that page
1509[20:49:24] <kittonian> 2.13.29
1510[20:49:29] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
1513[20:52:23] <moldy> kittonian: so, reading replaced-url
1514[20:52:55] <moldy> experiment with it or ask someonw who knows, or dig through the zope history
1515[20:53:40] <alexrelis[m]> Hi, does anyone know what package contains `libjpeg.so.8`?
1516[20:54:12] <alexrelis[m]> I'm trying to get this proprietary program working by turning it into an AppImage and I'm manually copying dependencies over so that it'll run.
1517[20:54:28] <alexrelis[m]> (doing this because I have to for one of my classes)
1518[20:55:22] <moldy> kittonian: i guess that's a python2 project? then it's apparently either protocol 0 or 1
1531[20:56:54] <judd> No package named 'libjpeg8' was found in amd64.
1532[20:57:52] <sney> you can *probably* dig the .so out of an old .deb from snapshot, but that might cause new problems. how about installing libjpeg9 and symlinking libjpeg.so.9 to .so.8?
1534[21:00:22] <alexrelis[m]> sney: Just to clarify, I will not being installing these dependencies to my system, I'm just adding them to an AppImage. You think it would still cause problems if I manually added the exact one?
1543[21:04:01] <kikuchi> having some issues with debian 10. All of the sudden when i start my computer and boot, it doesnt start in GUI mode, it boots to the console
1544[21:04:23] <kikuchi> not a huge problem since I can fix it by just logging in there and running startx
1571[21:27:42] <somiaj> could the default target have changed to multi-user.target instead of graphical.target? Also check the contents of /etc/X11/default-display-manager
1594[21:57:19] <jim> would that show me stuff I haven't installed?
1595[21:57:37] <petn-randall> jim: That will list any packages available. If you only want to list packages on the system (installed or recently uninstalled), you can use `dpkg -l obs*`.
1666[23:16:05] <March15> looks like it was my socks5 proxy
1667[23:16:09] <somiaj> mirko: daily builds? You might want to check a more appropriate channel (this is a stable support channel). Also what is your goal? You can install testing using the stable isntaller.
1668[23:16:19] <mirko> since 'daily' is linking to the latest, guides like replaced-url
1671[23:17:42] <mirko> somiaj: i'm trying to point out that builds are daily builds missing, resulting in official tutorials guiding the user to do things which won't do at the moment
1673[23:18:49] <somiaj> mirko: and I'm saying this isn't the place for that, if it is a bug, report it to the bts against the debian-installer, you could also try #debian-installer on irc.oftc.net and maybe letting someone there know would be useful.
1674[23:19:28] *** Quits: tommaso (~tommaso@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1675[23:20:07] <somiaj> I also wouldn't call the wiki offical since anyone can edit it, but I think the users in #debian-installer maybe more likely to spread light on why the daily builds are missing.
1676[23:20:54] <mirko> somiaj: thanks, dropped it there
1700[23:53:58] <tabakhase> hm, and installer without internet also leaves you without any debian repos... -> trying to setup mirror asks for proxy "empty to skip" - this empty to skip seems ignored, i get an error cant connect - no way to bypass other than "not adding repos"...
1701[23:54:21] <tabakhase> guess its not rly expected to run the netinstal image without internet ;-) but hey :P