People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
0 [00:00:16] <FightingFalcon> So its a problem of the client and not the server right?
1 [00:00:25] <greycat> Not enough information to determine that yet.
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3 [00:00:58] <greycat> Does the client get the right IP address when it looks up the domain name? Can the client ping that IP? (Can anyone?) Can the client connect to other ports on the same server, if any are exposed?
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5 [00:01:02] <coolternet> hello guys
6 [00:01:37] <greycat> Are there any known firewalls on the server, or on the client, or on any of the routers you know about on the path between the two? And so on.
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9 [00:02:21] <coolternet> i need to resize a partition of my hdd. i'm on VirtualBOX and i had to resize his hdd. Now, im on linux debian 9 and i need to resize my partition with parted but i dont want to loose everything.
10 [00:04:04] <FightingFalcon> PLEASE everybody try to connect to replaced-url
11 [00:04:40] <greycat> I connected fine with wget --spider -S.
12 [00:04:50] <coolternet> im not getting error Fight
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14 [00:05:50] <FightingFalcon> ok
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18 [00:07:47] <FightingFalcon> thanks
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40 [00:37:11] <Aavar> Any good IRC-Clients that support modern features like link- and image previews ?
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49 [00:48:05] <JordiGH> I think gajim can do that with a plugin.
50 [00:48:40] <CommunistWolf> gajim is xmpp, no?
51 [00:48:51] <JordiGH> I think it also does IRC, let me check.
52 [00:48:54] <CommunistWolf> quasselclient can do link previews but I always turn it off
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55 [00:49:23] <JordiGH> Oh, right, guess gajim is only jabber, oops.
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57 [00:49:33] <JordiGH> Hard to tell jabber apart from IRC sometimes. :-)
58 [00:51:18] <sney> most of the irc clients that can do link/image embedding and previews are web-based, so I hesitate to call them "good" because that tends to add a lot of overhead and slow down the scrollback.
59 [00:51:29] <sney> the main one I've heard of is irccloud but there are others.
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61 [00:52:05] <smashgrab> Not bad selfhosted: replaced-url
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68 [00:56:02] <GrayGhost> I have install deb 10 gnome and need to find the wifi driver for my lenovo laptop ?
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71 [00:56:47] <sney> GrayGhost: what you need is the firmware for your driver. what wifi adapter do you have?
72 [00:56:52] <KNERD> Well, you have to know what wi-fi devic eyou got
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74 [00:57:07] <KNERD> to install the proper drive
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78 [00:58:53] <GrayGhost> sney: Qualcomm Atheros QCA6174 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter
79 [00:58:53] <GrayGhost> vendor: Lenovo driver: ath10k_pci v: kernel port: 3000 bus ID: 03:00.0
80 [00:59:27] <sney> !ath10k firmware
81 [00:59:27] <dpkg> Firmware required by the <ath10k> driver is currently not available from the <linux-firmware> repository. See replaced-url
82 [00:59:31] <GrayGhost> I am curently running LMDE4 and the wifi works fine
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85 [01:00:19] <sney> hm, bad link
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87 [01:00:47] <sney> ,file ath10k/*.bin
88 [01:00:49] <Aavar> JordiGH, CommunistWolf, smashgrab, sney: thank you. I'll check those oujt:)
89 [01:00:52] <judd> Search for ath10k/*.bin in buster/amd64: [truncated] firmware-atheros: lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA4019/hw1.0/board-2.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA4019/hw1.0/firmware-5.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw2.1/board-2.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw2.1/board.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw2.1/firmware-5.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/board-2.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/board.bin,
90 [01:00:53] <judd> lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/firmware-4.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA6174/hw3.0/firmware-6.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA9377/hw1.0/board-2.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA9377/hw1.0/board.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA9377/hw1.0/firmware-5.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA9377/hw1.0/firmware-6.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA9887/hw1.0/board.bin, lib/firmware/ath10k/QCA9887/hw1.0/firmware-5.bin, (1 more message)
91 [01:01:19] <sney> GrayGhost: looks like it's in the firmware-atheros package. enable non-free and install it via apt. let us know if you have any questions.
92 [01:01:47] <KNERD> thanks to systemd , if shoudl start working right away
93 [01:02:08] <GrayGhost> I have been unable to enable non-free :(
94 [01:02:26] <sney> what do you mean by unable? what have you tried?
95 [01:03:02] <GrayGhost> to enable it in software updater
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97 [01:03:29] <sney> for best results, add it to /etc/apt/sources.list with a text editor
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99 [01:03:36] <sney> !non-free sources
100 [01:03:36] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
101 [01:03:50] <GrayGhost> I will switch over to the deb install and join you back here
102 [01:04:34] <GrayGhost> when I installed I pointed the install to the berkly ca site and have had trouble ever since
103 [01:05:46] <sney> some direct mirrors are iffy, we usually recommend using the deb.debian.org mirror network instead
104 [01:05:59] <KNERD> I am having issue with installing the i386 architecture Doing dpkg --add-architecture i386 then apt update does nothing.
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106 [01:06:24] <KNERD> on Buster
107 [01:06:39] <GrayGhost> I guess i should just reinstall using that
108 [01:07:02] <sney> if you want to reinstall, there's an installer that includes the firmware files and makes the wifi setup easier:
109 [01:07:04] <sney> !firmware image
110 [01:07:04] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
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112 [01:08:00] <GrayGhost> sney: that is what i thought ... I installed with a wired network but it did not install the wifi
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114 [01:08:31] <sney> GrayGhost: you probably used the regular netinst, not this one. it's special and not easy to find on the debian website
115 [01:08:35] <themill> KNERD: what does "nothing" mean? what did you expect to happen?
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117 [01:10:10] <KNERD> themill: well, after doing apt update.. it reports "All packages are up to date." I would of expected the i386 architecture to commence installing. Unless it has chnaged since Debian 9
118 [01:11:34] <KNERD> Afterall, that is what the docs are saying replaced-url
119 [01:12:42] <sney> KNERD: adding i386 to apt doesn't automatically install any i386 packages, you have to tell it what packages you want in the other arch
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121 [01:15:48] <KNERD> well, running dkpg --print-architecture shows only amd64
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125 [01:16:53] <sney> same on my system and I am able to install i386 packages. have you tried installing an i386 package?
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127 [01:19:32] <KNERD> sney: okay, thanks. I could of sworn in Debian 9 , there was something installed after I did aptt update
128 [01:20:37] <sney> it's not impossible if you were in the middle of resolving a dependency from something else, but normally apt update will not trigger a package install
129 [01:23:18] <themill> KNERD: you want --print-foreign-architectures not --print-architecture
130 [01:25:23] <KNERD> oh, okay..thanks for that info
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161 [01:57:51] <solrize> any idea why after a few dist-upgrades, i have several old initrd.img-4.19.0-x-amd64 files using up most of the space on my tiny /boot partition?
162 [01:58:01] <solrize> and why does the distro not make /boot bigger?
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164 [01:58:18] <solrize> thx
165 [01:59:37] <sney> debian normally prompts you to remove old kernels via apt autoremove, it's not supposed to keep more than 2 at a time
166 [01:59:57] <solrize> i did autoremove and it freed up some space but no tin /boot
167 [02:00:35] <solrize> it looks like there are 3 there now, but the newest one may be the one i just upgraded to without having rebooted yet. i.e. previous one, current one, and one that will run next time i reboot
168 [02:00:48] <solrize> should i reboot and then autoremove again?
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170 [02:01:01] <sney> I agree that the default separate /boot if you're e.g. using luks is a little small, but it's fine if you're only using debian kernels.
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172 [02:01:07] <sney> yes, that would be a good thing to try first
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174 [02:01:33] <solrize> ok gonna reboot, bbiab. yes i'm using luks and got a warning that there are just 346k free in /boot
175 [02:02:20] <CyberManifest> how do I remove a public key that isn't showing an id with 'sudo apt-key list' ?
176 [02:03:29] <sney> Warning: apt-key is deprecated. Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d instead (see apt-key(8)).
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179 [02:04:26] <CyberManifest> mistakenly I was following the guidance of replaced-url
180 [02:04:43] <solrize> rebooted, apt autoremove didn't remove anything. can i manually remove old img?
181 [02:04:49] <CyberManifest> sney: yes I got that warning when adding it using the method from that link, but now I don't know how to remove it
182 [02:05:00] <sney> solrize: yes, if it corresponds to a kernel you don't have anymore, it's safe to delete manually
183 [02:05:17] <sney> CyberManifest: try reading the error message and following its recommendation
184 [02:05:38] <CyberManifest> sney: but I already added it
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187 [02:06:38] <sney> "manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d" means that trusted keys are stored as files in that directory. did you look in there for the spotify key? I'm sure you noticed the full path when you read the output of apt-key list.
188 [02:06:49] <solrize> ok removed old, but very weirdly, after the reboot the /dev/vda1 fs where /boot is is a lot bigger
189 [02:06:58] <solrize> so tons of space now
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191 [02:07:46] <solrize> oh wait, wrong machine duh
192 [02:08:55] <CyberManifest> --keyring filename
193 [02:08:56] <CyberManifest> With this option it is possible to specify a particular keyring file the command
194 [02:08:56] <CyberManifest> should operate on.
195 [02:08:58] <solrize> ok removed some now, it helped considerably
196 [02:09:25] <CyberManifest> sney I'm confused replaced-url
197 [02:09:36] <solrize> why are the luks kernels so much bigger? 62MB vs around 5MB
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199 [02:09:42] <grayghost> back again after reinstall ... still would not install wifi :(
200 [02:10:11] <sney> CyberManifest: you seem to have skipped over the part that says "manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d" again
201 [02:10:32] <sney> grayghost: ok, you'll need to install the firmware-atheros package directly then
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203 [02:10:52] <CyberManifest> sney: I did a google search that man page link was first result, on that page I did a search for "trusted.gpg.d" and I showed you what it said.
204 [02:11:02] * sney headdesk
205 [02:11:08] <grayghost> Where was that loacted ... I could not find it
206 [02:11:12] <CyberManifest> sney: so what is it Im skipping over?
207 [02:11:53] <sney> CyberManifest: the warning literally told you what to do. it gave you the name of the directory where those files are stored. the man page is available if you want more information, but ALL YOU NEED TO DO is cd to that directory and add/delete the individual key files.
208 [02:12:09] <sney> grayghost: enable non-free in sources.list, apt update, apt install firmware-atheros
209 [02:12:24] <CyberManifest> sney: perhaps I should ask... please translate: "manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d" what the heck does this even mean?
210 [02:13:01] <CyberManifest> how do I manage... what are keyring files... what the hell is trusted.gpg.d ?
211 [02:13:49] <sney> solrize: vmlinuz files are the kernel. initrd is a compressed ramdisk, it contains the software that the kernel loads first, which then loads the rest of the OS from disk. ~65M is standard for an initrd with or without luks
212 [02:14:01] <CyberManifest> sney: "cd to that directory..." which directory?
213 [02:14:43] <sney> CyberManifest: run 'apt-key list' and read the output. you'll see the full path to that directory, and the filenames for debian's keyring files. from there you should be able to figure out the rest. it's pretty straightforward but you do need to read the words on the screen
214 [02:15:01] <solrize> oh i was looking at vmlinuz. but the initrd on my non-luks machine is around 25MB, wonder what's different. that machine is a headless VM if that matters
215 [02:15:19] <CyberManifest> sney: but you said apt-key is deprecated so why would I issue: 'apt-key list' ?
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217 [02:15:34] <solrize> actually i do have luks on that other one but only for a mounted fs if that matters
218 [02:15:35] <sney> CyberManifest: so that you can look at it and understand what I'm trying to explain to you.
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221 [02:15:57] <sney> solrize: that might be a targeted initrd, some versions of the debian installer let you generate a smaller one with only the drivers for that machine's hardware. less portable, but less disk space
222 [02:16:16] <solrize> i see, that's possible. thanks
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225 [02:16:34] <solrize> it's the vm host's template i guess
226 [02:16:49] <sney> ah yeah, hosting providers sometimes do custom stuff as well.
227 [02:16:53] <solrize> also /boot on that system is 20gb
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229 [02:17:08] <CyberManifest> sney: why can't I let apt-key remove the file/key in question with the '--keyring filename' option ? I.E. apt-key delete --keyring <filename>
230 [02:17:17] <solrize> anyway thanks for the help, bbl
231 [02:17:51] <sney> CyberManifest: you can, but "deprecated" means that feature will go away eventually, and since you don't already know how to do this, you may as well start with the new method.
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233 [02:18:11] <CyberManifest> sney: as will 'apt-key list' right... ?
234 [02:18:15] <CyberManifest> use it while I can
235 [02:18:57] <CyberManifest> sney: so let me get this straight, the new method involves the user rooting around their directories to remove files
236 [02:19:09] <sney> that's what the message says, yes
237 [02:19:30] <sney> they might add the functionality to apt(1) later or something. I'm not involved with development so I don't know
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240 [02:21:41] <GrayGhost> sney, wifi is now working thanks
241 [02:21:45] <sney> np
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243 [02:22:15] <GrayGhost> Client: HexChat 2.14.2 • OS: Debian 10.5 • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz (1.37GHz) • Memory: Physical: 15.2 GiB Total (14.4 GiB Free) Swap: 17.3 GiB Total (17.3 GiB Free) • Storage: 16.2 GB / 190.6 GB (174.4 GB Free) • VGA: 8086:5917 @ 8086:5914 • Uptime: 6m 4s
244 [02:22:40] <GrayGhost> sorry .. did not mean to flood tha chanel
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246 [02:23:19] <CyberManifest> sney according to apt-key list that key is shared with other keys and in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d it only shows the debian releases keys buster,jessie,stretch
247 [02:23:57] <sney> pastebin the output
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249 [02:24:04] <CyberManifest> do I open the file and remove it
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253 [02:25:50] <CyberManifest> sney: which file do I open because I'm on bullseye testing and it's not listed as an option, only buster, jessie, and stretch ?
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256 [02:28:08] <CyberManifest> sney: woah, can't open the file
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258 [02:28:19] <CyberManifest> it's all giberish not a standard text file
259 [02:29:21] <CyberManifest> they say to Manage keyring files in trusted.gpg.d but don't tell you how
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261 [02:30:26] <CyberManifest> replaced-url
262 [02:30:37] <CyberManifest> that's in trusted.gpg.d
263 [02:30:56] <CyberManifest> apt-key list still shows spotify
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290 [03:09:43] <CyberManifest> sney: it turns out I needed to remove the key's hex with quotes ""
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601 [05:27:56] <rgr> I've a problem using chmod. when I "chmod 444 .bashrc" and then look at it, its actually 744 . Is this something to do with umask?
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608 [05:33:18] <nvz> rgr: umask is for creating files it has no bearing on manually changing their permissions
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610 [05:34:31] <rgr> thats what I thought. I cant turn off the w flag for myselfin this one directory. Its driving me potty.
611 [05:35:29] <rgr> (I'm auto generating certain config files from an emacs org master file and I want to make them readonly)
612 [05:35:56] <rgr> works fine in my home directory for example.
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618 [05:40:33] <rgr> hmm. seems to be because its through a symlink.
619 [05:40:56] <nvz> yes well symlinks dont have permissions
620 [05:41:06] <nvz> the permissions apply to the file they point to
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633 [05:58:32] <rgr> yes I know. but its not working as expected. "chmod 444 ~/file" is fine were file is a hard file and not a symlink. "chmod 444 ~/symlink/dotfiles/file" and its 644 not 444. Ditto "chmod 444 symlinkedfile" its still 644.
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635 [06:00:12] <dvs> rgr, why would you want to change the permissions of a symlink? The permissions will ultimately take on the permissions of the real file.
636 [06:00:35] <rgr> I dont want to change the permissions of a symlink. You cant change the permissions of a symlink.
637 [06:00:56] <rgr> I am changing of a file *symlinked*.
638 [06:02:49] <rgr> I just tried a file and symlink in my home dir and that worked as expected. So its something to do with the directory my files are symlinked into. I shall google some more.
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674 [06:33:35] <Abdullah> debian uses dash as default shell. so which one I should learn? bash or dash?
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678 [06:37:35] <mason> Abdullah: For shell scripting, learn POSIX, which pretty much means Dash. It'll work on a range of shells. Avoid Bashisms, which won't.
679 [06:39:27] <epony> some variant of ksh
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681 [06:43:17] <mason> POSIX will work for ksh too.
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730 [07:42:53] <annadane> while at risk of running into replaced-url
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732 [07:43:44] <annadane> i should probably just read the man page
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746 [07:48:09] <epony> try -avz
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766 [07:49:37] <annadane> epony, could i use rsync as root to capture any files where it says permission denied and/or ssh keys?
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774 [07:50:04] <annadane> i also see a lot of "skipping non regular file" when done without -avz
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795 [07:52:04] <annadane> think i'll just read the arch wiki, it's more clear than the man page
796 [07:52:07] <epony> you can use tar -cvzf
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799 [07:52:37] <epony> rsync manual page is not ideal, indeed
800 [07:52:55] <epony> an artefact of it being non-unixy
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803 [07:54:34] <annadane> ok, i'm doing this again; how can i remove the dot files with rm, rm -r doesn't work
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805 [07:55:48] <annadane> rm -rf /path/to/dir/.* i guess
806 [07:59:43] <GrayGhost> I am new to deb 10 gnome ... want to confighre the pannel
807 [08:00:28] <GrayGhost> instructions say alt plus right click ... does not work ?
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809 [08:03:03] <annadane> forget it, i'm just going to use grsync
810 [08:05:08] <annadane> hey look it's doing it properly. *rolls eyes*
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815 [08:11:08] <annadane> /home, /etc, /usr/local... that's probably about it
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820 [08:21:23] <annadane> oh it's not recursively copying the directories... cool. :/
821 [08:22:26] <annadane> unless it's going to fill them in later
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829 [08:31:55] <annadane> yeah it does, nvm
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846 [08:56:03] <shtrb> Would it be safe to restore grub2 from buster on a sid machine when the EFI vars get erased ?
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851 [09:03:12] <nkuttler> shtrb: nothing is safe when messing with grub, or sid
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853 [09:04:07] <Mikurynda> where is tftpd configuration file?
854 [09:04:57] <wuseman> in /etc/default i think
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859 [09:09:11] <Mikurynda> I don't see any file with "fpt" in the name in there
860 [09:09:15] <Mikurynda> ftp*
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863 [09:12:20] <wuseman> Ok
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865 [09:13:25] <Fox> tftpd is configured via inetd
866 [09:13:30] <shtrb> nkuttler, it would be rescuing sid after a problem
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873 [09:19:14] <shtrb> ,v grub-efi
874 [09:19:16] <judd> Package: grub-efi on amd64 -- jessie: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.02~beta2-22+deb8u1; stretch: 2.02~beta3-5+deb9u2; buster: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; buster-security: 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u2; bullseye: 2.04-8; sid: 2.04-9
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895 [09:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1099
896 [09:50:35] <bauen1> shtrb: rescuing a broken system using an older (but recent) version of grub shouln't be a problem
897 [09:50:44] <bauen1> but you might want to go about it in a different way:
898 [09:51:38] <bauen1> use the old grub (from usb or something) to load the kernel and initrd of the sid install, but stop at the initramfs and chroot into your root filesystem, then use what ever you need to fix grub (grub-install)
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901 [09:58:15] <shtrb> bauen1, oh , yes , that would be even better , right
902 [09:59:52] <shtrb> I think I could even just chroot from USB to a broken system and reinstall grub
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905 [10:00:42] <bauen1> yeah that too (and is a lot easier)
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916 [10:06:59] <afidegnum> what do you suggest for a dummy/fake mail server wehere i can test mail deliveries and read them?
917 [10:07:17] <afidegnum> something simpler instead of installing postfix, courier etc...
918 [10:07:49] <bendem> mailhog
919 [10:08:17] <bendem> single binary, exposes smtp and a web interface to read them
920 [10:08:31] <afidegnum> ok, let me try it
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925 [10:16:48] <jelly> ,v mailhog
926 [10:16:49] <judd> No package named 'mailhog' was found in amd64.
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929 [10:18:07] * annadane opens jelly's mail
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934 [10:23:12] <bendem> yeah, it's a go program, from what I remember, debian doesn't package go programs yet (or there was really complex problems with licensing)
935 [10:24:46] <jelly> it does, but typically there are build issues and lots of deps to be packaged first
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964 [10:56:47] <hramrach> hello
965 [10:57:13] <hramrach> after installing systemd I cano no longer run sshd because systemd listens on the ssh port
966 [10:57:18] <hramrach> can I disable that?
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968 [10:57:37] <hramrach> I removed the ssh socket file but systemd still listens on ssh port
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995 [11:21:39] <jmcnaught> hramrach: how are you starting sshd? What error are you getting?
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1006 [11:38:00] <jelly> hramrach, which debian release is this? Are you starting sshd in some other way than the default ssh service?
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1024 [12:00:33] <hramrach> I am starting the ssh service. The error is that it cannot bind the address because it is in use, and it is systemd that uses the address
1025 [12:00:39] <hramrach> it is Debian 10
1026 [12:01:35] <hramrach> I think the problem is after upgrade from Debian 9 because previously systemd was not needed
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1042 [12:11:31] <aaro> hramrach: you didn't answer jmcnaught question "how are you starting sshd?"
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1044 [12:12:46] <in1t3r> guys issue with the NM and routes.
1045 [12:13:26] <in1t3r> So routes showing up additional entry in routing table
1046 [12:14:57] <in1t3r> I have configured nm to connect only on the static for the ap then I still have other being used and when checked on the router I have more connections there then from the static
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1049 [12:16:43] <hramrach> aaro: it was the very first thing I wrote in the reply ..
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1052 [12:17:16] <bauen1> hramrach: _how_ are you starting, are you running /usr/sbin/sshd as root, using sysv scripts or something else ?
1053 [12:18:11] <aaro> hramrach: write the command you used to start the service
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1057 [12:20:37] <jelly> hramrach, did you reboot after upgrading to Debian 10?
1058 [12:21:53] <in1t3r> so checked the connections settings in the /etc/NetworkManager and they are normal checked the settings in the /var/lib/NetworkManager looks kinda normal but after stoping nm and doing a flush of routing table and of the cache once I start nm and connect again to ap its again adding additional entry into routing table.
1059 [12:22:07] <jelly> hramrach, pastebin the output of "ps -fe |grep sshd" and "systemctl status ssh.service" and "systemctl status ssh.socket"
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1061 [12:23:41] <jelly> hramrach, it vaguely sounds as if you have both ssh.socket and ssh.service enabled -- this is not a default config
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1063 [12:25:45] <jelly> ssh.socket unit is disabled by default on our Debian 10 installations
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1073 [12:29:56] <hramrach> jelly: I also had tinysshd, and both openssh and tinysshd install a socket - that does nothing until you have systemd
1074 [12:30:09] <jelly> ,v tinysshd
1075 [12:30:10] <judd> Package: tinysshd on amd64 -- bullseye: 20190101-1; buster: 20190101-1; sid: 20190101-1
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1077 [12:30:33] <hramrach> however, any attempt at disabling those sockets was futile
1078 [12:30:43] <jelly> do you need tinysshd?
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1080 [12:30:55] <hramrach> until I removed those files systemd would listen on ssh port
1081 [12:31:31] <hramrach> no, I wantoed to try switching to tinysshd but never finished that
1082 [12:31:53] <jelly> did "any attempt" include masking the problematic systemd units
1083 [12:31:53] <hramrach> I removed tinysshd and the ssh socket file and now sshd can start
1084 [12:32:36] <jelly> yeah, that might bite you afterwards, you shouldn't need to delete files from /lib
1085 [12:32:54] <hramrach> I told systemd to disable the socket which seemed to do something but not stop it from listening on the port
1086 [12:33:07] <hramrach> I installed an override so the file won't come back
1087 [12:34:02] <jelly> oh well, if you fixed it, good
1088 [12:34:29] <hramrach> thanks for help
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1091 [12:41:43] <hramrach> is there some way to tell why is systemd listening on a port?
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1096 [12:42:41] <hramrach> if it's a sepate daemon it's transparent but the systemd activation hides the service
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1135 [13:30:49] <shtrb> [beginning of rant] For the next smartasss (me) , who think he is a though guy and think he can just use a buster debian-installer to fix grub on a sid machine (by chrooting and trying do apt-get install --resintall grub-efi; grub-install;, just bloody don't you must have the same kernel and you must first have a debian installer for testing and your host machine should have the same kernel to reinstall [/end of rant]
1136 [13:31:28] * shtrb lost 45 minutes to download a recent testing installer to fix a sid installation
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1138 [13:33:13] <shtrb> bauen1, I should have listened to you to try to load a recent kernel and initrd, however It didn't click to me how I could load a recent kernel and initrd for a debian-installer
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1141 [13:34:56] <shtrb|work> sorry for the rant
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1164 [14:05:34] <j`ey> anyone know what the #44 is in the boot messages? "(gcc (Debian 8.3.0-6) 8.3.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils for Debian) 2.31.1) #44"
1165 [14:07:18] <hwm4rgs> number of builds iirc
1166 [14:07:57] <hwm4rgs> same as in uname -v right
1167 [14:08:18] <j`ey> number of builds.. as in it's the 44th release of this kernel?
1168 [14:08:57] <hwm4rgs> the kernel generating that message has had its source tree built 44 times
1169 [14:09:10] <hwm4rgs> at least that's what i remember from my gentoo days
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1171 [14:10:15] <shtrb> will apparmor warnings / errors have any effect on the freeze ?
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1174 [14:19:05] <jj5> are freenode.net and irc.debian.org the same IRC network? i.e. if I'm in #debian on freenode is that the same as #debian at irc.debian.org .. ?
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1176 [14:20:34] <shtrb> jj5, no , it's oftc
1177 [14:21:02] <shtrb> irc.debian.org == irc.oftc.net
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1179 [14:22:36] <jj5> shtrb: excellent. thanks.
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1187 [14:27:01] <dka> apt-get update return : N: Repository 'replaced-url
1188 [14:27:04] <dka> any idea how to fix thios?
1189 [14:27:31] <diogenes_> dka, it's terminal error unfixable.
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1192 [14:27:44] <dka> unfixable?
1193 [14:27:57] <diogenes_> dka, yep, no way to fix that :)
1194 [14:28:06] <dka> it's linux bro
1195 [14:28:16] <shtrb> not true
1196 [14:28:31] <dka> I did sudo apt-get -y dist-upgrade
1197 [14:28:33] <dka> I 'll see what happen
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1199 [14:29:05] <shtrb> that warning is normal and expected , because there had been a minor release upgrade we are at 10.5
1200 [14:29:40] <diogenes_> shtrb, i was joking with him and i also thik the question was not serious.
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1202 [14:30:05] <shtrb> oh , sorry , I thought you had been serius
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1213 [14:38:00] <dka> apt-get dist-upgrade product a lot of : sh: 0: getcwd() failed: Permission denied
1214 [14:38:26] <dka> I did run : sudo apt-get -y dist-upgrade
1215 [14:38:29] <dka> can i safely ignore?
1216 [14:38:53] <dka> I did unmount my drive I was in meanwhile
1217 [14:39:01] <dka> I didn't know it needed it to fullfill the command
1218 [14:39:05] <dka> should I cancel and start over?
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1290 [15:35:31] <shtrb> Does anyone have a clue what "debian : Aug 14 13:09:41 : root : problem with defaults entries ; TTY=tty1 ; PWD=/ ; USER=root " mean ? (got in my local e-mail box)
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1295 [15:38:43] <petn-randall> shtrb: Is that a cron mail? The mail headers should provide more info.
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1298 [15:40:28] <shtrb> I don't know what had created it, but the title is "*** SECURITY information for debian ***" (I guess pam ?)
1299 [15:40:45] <petn-randall> Sound like sudo.
1300 [15:40:49] <petn-randall> *sounds
1301 [15:41:10] <shtrb> but I had never seen errors mentioning "problem with defaults"
1302 [15:42:29] <shtrb> ducking around does point to sudo ,thanks
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1304 [15:44:35] <shtrb> I even tried to run sudo as user , and don't get that alert.
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1306 [15:48:21] <genr8_> serious question: /usr/src/linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common/Makefile Line 6, NAME = "People's Front"
1307 [15:48:45] <genr8_> why is the name of a GeoPolitical Party in my Debian kernel and module makefiles ?
1308 [15:48:46] <shtrb> ,v linux-headers-4.19
1309 [15:48:47] <judd> No package named 'linux-headers-4.19' was found in amd64.
1310 [15:49:25] <genr8_> linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common
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1312 [15:50:27] <shtrb> ,v linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common
1313 [15:50:28] <judd> Package: linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common on amd64 -- buster: 4.19.132-1
1314 [15:51:23] <shtrb> genr8_, you should file a bug against it if you find that braking any Debian rule (like diversity , welcoming or DFSG rules)
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1316 [15:51:54] <shtrb> I'm not saying it go against any rule , just say if you belive it you should file a bug
1317 [15:53:09] <genr8_> If im going to be an unwitting pawn in a geopolitical game until I stumble upon this information by accident and researching what goes into my Kernel, I would like to know more about said party
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1319 [15:53:38] <shtrb> There are several People's front out there
1320 [15:53:45] <genr8_> right
1321 [15:54:35] <genr8_> shouldnt Debian be the one to tell me what it means ? this is the opposite of inconsequential
1322 [15:54:40] <shtrb> git log -S"People's front" might shed some light regarding that addition
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1324 [15:55:09] <shtrb> #debian is an irc channel , with many non DD who hangout here. you can ask offically ovr the mailing lists
1325 [15:55:14] <themill> genr8_: lots of software releases get names. It's not like Debian is going to change them (or even look at them)
1326 [15:57:07] <genr8_> i get that its above most peoples paygrade but Im going to have to escalate this. the benefit of the doubt is not adequate in this day and age anymore
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1328 [15:57:39] <shtrb> try over mailing lists
1329 [15:58:04] <themill> genr8_: there is nothing to see here.
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1331 [15:58:35] <genr8_> your use of that phrase in this scenario raises red flags
1332 [15:58:49] <themill> then spend 5s asking google
1333 [15:58:57] <genr8_> i just did man
1334 [15:59:29] <themill> then try harder
1335 [15:59:36] <themill> replaced-url
1336 [15:59:38] <shtrb> genr8_, it's the offical name replaced-url
1337 [15:59:52] <shtrb> themill, I got his point 100% , please be more acceptive to other people views
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1339 [15:59:54] <themill> or don't
1340 [16:00:14] <themill> shtrb: no really, there's nothing to see here.
1341 [16:00:20] <genr8_> ok so its Linux itself not Debian
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1343 [16:00:40] <themill> there are no "views" to be had about a pair of random words for a codename that is varied in every single release
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1345 [16:01:00] <shtrb> themill, if he find it against debian rules he should raise his voice about it
1346 [16:01:13] <themill> please don't waste everyone's time
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1348 [16:01:35] <genr8_> shtrb, youve been helpful, thank you.
1349 [16:01:41] <genr8_> themill is an opp.
1350 [16:01:41] <themill> there are real problems to fix in the community and real technical bugs to fix
1351 [16:03:09] <aaro> the name certainly stands out compared to the other ones like Psychotic Stoned Sheep :D
1352 [16:03:33] <shtrb> themill, I would have agreed to you prior diversty and coc in debian
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1354 [16:04:48] <themill> shtrb: yeah, no.
1355 [16:04:51] <shtrb> wasn't 4.19 linux kernel prior Linus torvald's forced vacation ?
1356 [16:04:53] <genr8_> i feel much better knowing its Torvalds authorized
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1359 [16:06:21] <genr8_> we can drop it now since this clearly isnt the right venue for this discussion
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1365 [16:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1123
1366 [16:09:04] <aaro> oh well it actually comes from a movie replaced-url
1367 [16:09:37] <shtrb> genr8_, I think it wasn't Linus who authorized it :) but but rather the new leader who took over while Linus had been exiled
1368 [16:09:53] <shtrb> hence the very fitting name
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1371 [16:12:41] <genr8_> on further analysis it seems its an inside joke at the expense of the actual CoC itself, which is ironic :P
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1375 [16:16:02] <genr8_> we can talk about something useful instead
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1377 [16:16:34] <genr8_> like, "should I keep the 4.19 kernel or try and upgrade it to 5.something" ?
1378 [16:18:01] <shtrb> 5 something have many issues , stick to buster
1379 [16:18:23] <shtrb> 5.7 has many intellectually chalenged issues for iwlwifi for instance (solved in 5.8) ,
1380 [16:18:55] <genr8_> i see those as too new personally, but for instance 5.4.58 is regarded as LongTerm
1381 [16:19:24] <genr8_> do we know enough about 5.4 being OK yet, or same story?
1382 [16:19:41] <shtrb> ,v linux-image-5.4
1383 [16:19:42] <judd> No package named 'linux-image-5.4' was found in amd64.
1384 [16:19:47] <shtrb> ,v linux-image-5.7
1385 [16:19:48] <judd> No package named 'linux-image-5.7' was found in amd64.
1386 [16:20:20] <genr8_> right, i'd have to build it myself. which then leads me to wonder if I would make a mistake and make things more problematic than doing nothing
1387 [16:20:20] <shtrb> Well 5.7 exist in testing , but not 5.4
1388 [16:20:35] <shtrb> genr8_, you can pull it from backports
1389 [16:20:50] <genr8_> hmm ok i havent seen that yet
1390 [16:20:53] <shtrb> ,v linux-image-5.7.0-2-amd64
1391 [16:20:54] <judd> Package: linux-image-5.7.0-2-amd64 on amd64 -- bullseye: 5.7.10-1; sid: 5.7.10-1
1392 [16:21:00] <jhutchins> ,kernels
1393 [16:21:01] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.7.0-rc5-686 (5.7~rc5-1~exp1); sid: 5.7.0-2-686-pae (5.7.10-1); bullseye: 5.7.0-2-686-pae (5.7.10-1); buster-backports: 5.7.0-0.bpo.2-686 (5.7.10-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-10-686 (4.19.132-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.10-686-pae (4.19.132-1~deb9u2); jessie-backports:
1394 [16:21:02] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
1395 [16:21:50] <shtrb> thanks jhutchins , genr8_ you can see that 5.7 allready in backports
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1406 [16:39:16] <b-04> hi to all
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1408 [16:39:33] <b-04> debian 10 runs with ram memory non ecc ?
1409 [16:39:42] <genr8_> yes
1410 [16:40:10] <b-04> thanks
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1468 [17:45:32] <Oberon4278> Is amd64 appropriate for an Intel x64 processor?
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1470 [17:46:32] <ax562> yes
1471 [17:47:11] <nevivurn> Oberon4278: yes, x86_64 == amd64
1472 [17:47:30] <ax562> amd64 was the name given to x64 builds to throw some respect on AMD since they were first with the x64 arch
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1475 [17:50:21] <Oberon4278> Thank you.
1476 [17:50:34] <oerheks> amd was the first with hybrid 32+64 bits, intel was the first with 64 bit.
1477 [17:53:46] <genr8_> nobody cares about Itanium
1478 [17:54:22] <jrtc27> oerheks is somewhat misrepresenting it
1479 [17:54:27] <jrtc27> and no, intel were not first to 64-bit
1480 [17:54:36] <jrtc27> DEC had their Alpha well before Intel had IA-64
1481 [17:55:51] <jrtc27> (and MIPS had the R4k)
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1484 [18:02:13] <Oberon4278> I understand MIT's Lisp machines were ahead of their time as well ;-)
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1487 [18:03:26] <Oberon4278> So I'm installing Debian on an old Dell my dad has given me. I intend to use it for bioinformatics. It's only got 12 gigs of ram and 450 gigs of hard drive space. I think I may be setting myself up for failure here.
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1490 [18:06:49] <genr8_> your desire to learn and the availability to run whatever you can run will outweigh the lack of cutting edge hardware
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1493 [18:07:26] <genr8_> maybe he will buy you a new one if you convince him you made use of that one
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1497 [18:08:37] <Oberon4278> That's a very good point.
1498 [18:08:41] <n4dir> bioinformatics do need much RAM?
1499 [18:08:52] <Oberon4278> It's not like I'm going to be doing serious work, it's just going to be learning.
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1501 [18:09:37] <Oberon4278> Honestly I'm not sure. I know the datasets can be quite large, but if that becomes a problem I can always use a SSD as swap space
1502 [18:09:39] <genr8_> theres enough programs it WILL run to learn plenty of stuff
1503 [18:10:27] <n4dir> usually 12 gigs are anything but little.
1504 [18:10:44] <Oberon4278> I'm hoping that just having a home lab where I can demonstrate my chops, plus getting a Masters, will be enough to land me a decent job.
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1517 [18:27:13] <uberushaximus> Hello, I'm trying to build wpa_supplicant 2.9 on ubuntu xenial, and I'm getting the following build error replaced-url
1518 [18:27:26] <uberushaximus> Config file is here replaced-url
1519 [18:27:57] <uberushaximus> Can someone tell me why -DCONFIG_DRIVER_MACSEC_LINUX -DCONFIG_DRIVER_MACSEC_QCA -DCONFIG_MACSEC is still being set?
1520 [18:28:03] <uberushaximus> or where to look?
1521 [18:28:44] <diogenes_> uberushaximus, is this a joke?
1522 [18:29:22] <uberushaximus> Not at all, I honestly have no idea why
1523 [18:29:55] <uberushaximus> oh, negatives imply it is *not* set
1524 [18:30:03] <diogenes_> uberushaximus, because of 'ubuntu xenial'
1525 [18:30:04] <jmcnaught> uberushaximus: there's a #ubuntu channel that can help you, you're in the #debian channel which only supports Debian not derivatives.
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1529 [18:31:30] <uberushaximus> I'll poke at them but as far as debian packaging goes, would the dpkg-buildpackage script look elsewhere to set those config flags?
1530 [18:31:48] <uberushaximus> It's not obvious to me but the .config gets set as expected
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1535 [18:38:21] <genr8_> uberushaximus, its the way you're building it with ../src/ as the path
1536 [18:38:32] <genr8_> ../src/drivers/driver_macsec_linux.c:20:39: fatal error: netlink/route/link/macsec.h: No such file or directory
1537 [18:38:54] <genr8_> you need to build it from the correct top level directory so that it can find that path
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1539 [18:39:47] <genr8_> Its coded into the code in such a way that ../src/ called from the command line does not translate to finding that path when it #includes inside the .C file itself
1540 [18:41:19] <genr8_> you might also be able to add -I ../src/drivers/ or -I ,,/src/ (most likely manually expanding the dots into full paths yourself)
1541 [18:41:41] <genr8_> its just how you're building it is a path problem
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1548 [18:47:29] <ax562> Curious to what's your thoughts on systemd?
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1551 [18:48:41] <sney> ax562: that topic often devolves into stupidity, so unless there's a specific usage question along with it, better not.
1552 [18:49:29] <ax562> sney what do you think of sytemd?
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1554 [18:50:26] <sney> I use it, it works. it's no more or less intuitive or transparent than any of the other init systems I've used over the decades.
1555 [18:51:09] <ax562> word
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1571 [19:10:54] <n4dir> as far i have followed the main issues people had was not with it being intuitive as an init system, but doing all kind of things init systems didn't do before. one thing and well and such. Else: doesn't matter what i think of it. It is there and won't go away soon. Either BSD variant or one of the rather small distros.
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1619 [20:13:28] <Mrbuck> how do I download mysql latest version in debian
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1622 [20:15:21] <jelly> Mrbuck, you'd have to get it from mysql.com, but typically you do not typically need "latest" mysql server or client without a good reason
1623 [20:15:53] <jelly> so do you have a good technical reason, Mrbuck, and what is it
1624 [20:16:16] <Mrbuck> jelly: been using postgresql and suddenly mysql website tiring me as it got so much enterprice things
1625 [20:16:20] <greycat> Also, is there a specific reason that you want the increasingly proprietary MySQL rather than Mariadb?
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1633 [20:20:22] <Mrbuck> greycat: I need it temporarily one time use
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1635 [20:20:48] <greycat> well then you go to mysql.com and follow their instructions
1636 [20:22:04] <jelly> Mrbuck, if some other app, service or tool says it needs mysql, and the docs are older thana year or two, it is very likely to work with mariadb-server instead
1637 [20:23:03] <Mrbuck> jelly: ok I will try thank you
1638 [20:23:33] <jelly> "latest mysql" is a rather unusual tech requirement
1639 [20:24:06] <Mrbuck> jelly: could be I just asked because there could be any secuirty vulnerabilities in older versions right?
1640 [20:24:44] <greycat> Debian doesn't even *ship* mysql in its current release. They switched to Mariadb. The Debian security team keeps it patched.
1641 [20:25:17] <Mrbuck> greycat: ok
1642 [20:26:11] <jelly> Mrbuck, which is why I specifically asked which _tech_ reason you have; maybe it's a good reason and you really need mysql.com; maybe it's not and installing default-mysql-server from debian will be enough
1643 [20:26:26] <jelly> ,v default-mysql-server
1644 [20:26:28] <judd> Package: default-mysql-server on amd64 -- stretch: 1.0.2; bullseye: 1.0.5; buster: 1.0.5; sid: 1.0.5
1645 [20:26:36] <jelly> ,depends default-mysql-server
1646 [20:26:37] <judd> Package default-mysql-server in buster/amd64 -- depends: mariadb-server-10.3.
1647 [20:27:25] <jelly> so, when you ask debian to install "default-mysql-server", you actually get a supported build of mariadb-server 10.3 branch
1648 [20:27:47] <Mrbuck> jelly: thanks a lot i got clear idea now
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1656 [20:32:58] <melissa_> If I have a Debian Testing installation and I don't touch it for, say, 5 years, then do a system upgrade, is there a risk that it will break? Bigger or smaller than upgrading from, say, Jessie to Buster? I want a system that is as little maintenance as possible once installed.
1657 [20:33:07] <Mrbuck> installation docs on mariadb can help illeterates that helps
1658 [20:34:03] <tds> melissa_: latest stable (ie buster) probably makes more sense for that
1659 [20:35:08] <greycat> Yes, there is a chance that testing untouched for 5 years could break, because there could have been 2 releases in between.
1660 [20:35:39] <jelly> melissa_, question 1) yes, at that point you'd better do a release upgrade to the next closest actual release, then keep doing release upgrades until the latest stable, then upgrade to whatever the current testing would be
1661 [20:35:42] <greycat> Your best bet would be to figure out *when* you last touched it, and what that timeline's testing became (say, jessie), upgrade to that release, then go one release at a time from there.
1662 [20:36:00] <melissa_> What makes you say that? I ask because I found it a bit too much effort to upgrade from Jessie to Buster. I had to run 3 cycles of apt-get update, upgrade, dist-upgrade, in addition to do a lot of reading.
1663 [20:36:20] <greycat> Or you can wipe it and reinstall.
1664 [20:36:36] <jelly> melissa_, what you did there, is, in fact, the least amount of effort
1665 [20:37:15] <jelly> or keep upgrading your testing or unstable install fairly often and fix things as they break
1666 [20:38:09] <tds> i mean, least amount of effort would probably be putting stable rather than a specific release in your sources.list, and enabling unattended upgrades :D
1667 [20:38:29] <tds> you're rather likely to get a broken box one day though ;)
1668 [20:38:32] <melissa_> I see. I've had this problem with Arch in the best and hoped that it'd be more stable on Debian. But I suppose this problem is inherent to rolling release?
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1672 [20:40:04] <jelly> tds, no, that will break things horribly
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1674 [20:41:27] <jelly> unless unatttended-upgrades has gotten some serious magic in it
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1676 [20:41:59] <melissa_> I know this is #debian and all, but would you guys agree then that Trisquel LTS is a more attractive solution for me?
1677 [20:42:09] <jelly> melissa_, you can keep using jessie for up to 5 years or so, but will need to do some release upgrades at some point
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1679 [20:42:51] <melissa_> what about security updates?
1680 [20:43:05] <greycat> !jessie-lts
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1682 [20:43:05] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures received additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until June 30, 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. jessie-lts is no longer supported. Ask me about <jessie->stretch> and <stretch->buster>. See replaced-url
1683 [20:43:18] <tds> jelly: oh, ignoring everything else, i suppose apt will get grumpy when the release changes
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1685 [20:43:31] <jelly> melissa_, 5 years of them if you only use the packages from the LTS set
1686 [20:43:37] <greycat> You can change sources.list to the one on the wiki for the archived releases.
1687 [20:43:55] <greycat> Jessie's 5 years are already finished.
1688 [20:44:36] <jelly> buster still has about 2 years of Debian Security Team support, and about 2 years of LTS after that probably
1689 [20:44:59] <jelly> and if you're rich you can pay for ELTS to get even longer support
1690 [20:45:44] <greycat> Did jessie get an ELTS? I haven't heard of it yet. Wheezy was the first, and possibly only one....
1691 [20:46:17] <greycat> Hmm, google gave me replaced-url
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1693 [20:47:09] <jelly> it did.
1694 [20:48:02] <jelly> there's a fixed price of about 4kEUR for LTS support per year, and a variable price depending on how many packages you need supported and actually need to be worked on
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1696 [20:48:36] <jelly> variable price for ELTS, that is
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1698 [20:51:24] <melissa_> that's pretty cool
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1700 [20:52:56] <jelly> it's also "too complicated" for my $work to pay. I'll have to convince them that upgrading a hundred jessie machines also costs money...
1701 [20:53:39] <greycat> You "have to" do the upgrade in a couple years anyway, so paying for ELTS is just postponing the upgrade cost.
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1704 [20:54:02] <jelly> "or wipe and reinstall"
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1706 [20:54:23] <jelly> and reinstalling every 7 years is perhaps less painful than every 5 years
1707 [20:55:21] <jelly> that said. I found a lenny system in production. Internet facing.
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1709 [20:55:51] <greycat> only one? :)
1710 [20:56:07] <jelly> noone cared until Firefox started refusing TLS1.0 connections
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1774 [21:51:36] <angrynapkin> Im not sure if this is the proper place to ask, but I am running a raspberry pi version of debian lite. I wanted a clean install, but I am trying to get my usb web cam streaming to a browser similar to how the octopi raspberry pi image does. I cannot seem to find a decent how-to to get a usb cam to stream its video. I am hoping the pi version of debian is similar enough to a full disto.
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1777 [21:54:48] <greycat> !lite
1778 [21:54:48] <dpkg> Linux Lite is a distribution based on <ubuntu> and Debian. It is not supported in #debian -- please ask questions on their IRC channel, #linuxdistrocommunity on irc.freenode.net, or forums at replaced-url
1779 [21:54:51] <greycat> Is that what you're using?
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1781 [21:56:06] <angrynapkin> replaced-url
1782 [21:56:18] <angrynapkin> says its based on debian buster
1783 [21:57:02] <tomreyn> you mentioned "debian lite", though?
1784 [21:57:20] <tomreyn> !raspbian
1785 [21:57:21] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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1787 [21:57:55] <angrynapkin> Sorry, I must be confusing the terms. It says Raspberry Pi OS Lite.
1788 [21:58:20] <tomreyn> which was formerly known as "Raspbian", i.e. see above.
1789 [21:58:41] <greycat> They changed the name of Raspbian? Geez.
1790 [21:58:54] <greycat> Looks like #raspbian still exists, at least.
1791 [22:01:35] <angrynapkin> greycat: Ok, thanks. Ill check that channel out. Not sure why, raspberry channel never even occurred to me, lol
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1793 [22:02:35] <sney> never underestimate the rpi foundation's ability to give new users confusing/misleading information
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1795 [22:03:00] <sney> maybe they think it stimulates problem-solving skills. :P
1796 [22:03:45] <greycat> well, they're clearly in some sort of transitional state. there's replaced-url
1797 [22:03:55] <angrynapkin> So how much of a difference is there between raspberry pi and debian?
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1799 [22:04:32] <jelly> we don't know
1800 [22:05:31] <angrynapkin> Maybe I should have asked....what makes debian debian? Actually, I never really thought about it, but what makes all these distros different? Is it just default installed packages?
1801 [22:05:40] <sney> it's only *supposed* to be a rebuild for the original rpi cpu, with some extra stuff to support the pi bootloader, but we don't and can't keep track of any other modifications they may have made
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1804 [22:07:04] <greycat> A debian package is created by a debian developer, using upstream's original source code, together with the package maintainer's hand-written config files, collected patches, etc.
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1807 [22:07:34] <greycat> In some cases, a package may be have almost no changes from upstream. In other cases, a huge amount of work has been done.
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1810 [22:08:27] <greycat> Most of the derivative distros try to take as many shortcuts as possible, doing very little work of their own, and then punting all their users to #debian for "support".
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1812 [22:12:07] <angrynapkin> I can see how that can be frustrating dealing with many requests from non debian users.
1813 [22:14:42] <EdePopede> especially if they just don't get it (or don't want to get it) that their derivate just isn't debian and noone here is expected to know what they did to maybe break something that works ootb on debian.
1814 [22:15:11] <notahackerlol> no one reads the man page anymore
1815 [22:15:25] <notahackerlol> people just expect the answers to be given to them with a quick google search :p
1816 [22:15:43] <greycat> Raspbian is actually one of the better derivatives, as far as I can tell, except that they went out of their way to confuse people in the past by calling their thing "Raspbian Debian buster" or something. But with the name change maybe they've decided to clean things up.
1817 [22:16:30] <EdePopede> really sounds like a buster flavour just adapted to run on that hardware
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1819 [22:16:50] <greycat> notahackerlol: to be fair, most man pages are *awful* at explaining how to do common things. They often don't even have basic examples.
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1821 [22:17:27] <EdePopede> maybe it would help answering to these folks in old germanic, after all modern english evolutioned from it, right? :)
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1824 [22:21:43] <angrynapkin> I agree on the man pages sometimes being difficult to understand. At times it is easier to do a google search and see an example.
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1904 [23:56:56] <oxek> what's happening with the chromium package? It is out of date for a month now, with known security issues.
1905 [23:57:06] <oxek> I can
1906 [23:57:15] <oxek> I can't find any info about it on replaced-url
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