28[00:31:35] <kittonian> hi all. I have a rather old system running Wheezy and it also runs the Radicale carddav/caldav server. This has been working just fine but I needed to reboot today for the first time in over 250 days, and when the box came back up, it seems that the new Radicale 3.x is now taking effect (thought it was previously but apparently not). However, it no longer uses the daemon option and instead mandates systemd
29[00:32:14] <kittonian> so I tried installing systemd and it upgrade/installed everything it needed except for the systemd package where it errored
30[00:32:40] <kittonian> i looked for a Wheezy package and apparently systemd was only a tech preview for Wheezy so it doesn't exist
31[00:33:29] <kittonian> right now all my caldav and cardav clients are down because I cannot start Radicale as a daemon, only from the command line
69[01:11:58] <quadrathoch2> thiras oO i don't get it, most stuff should still be the same package names. so there shouldn't even be a debian apt install (whatever that means)
72[01:15:05] <kittonian> ok it seems systemd is in fact installed on the box but it is not set as the default init system (which is correct as we don't want to use it unless absolutely necessary)
73[01:15:26] <kittonian> but running systemctl start radicale.service doesn't work
76[01:16:00] <kittonian> and service --status-all doesn't show radicale in the list because there is no sysv init script
77[01:16:20] <kittonian> so service radicale start doesn't work either
78[01:16:52] <LtL> kittonian: so, try /etc/init.d/radicale start
79[01:16:56] <kittonian> even running python3 -m radicale from the command line seems to start it and it hangs like the service is running, but clients don't connect
80[01:17:06] <kittonian> LtL, there is no init script for radicale
104[01:34:06] <kittonian> i need to get service to recognize both sysv and systemd as it should by default but is not currently doing
105[01:34:15] <kittonian> then I could run service radicale start
106[01:34:36] <kittonian> but right now, service doesn't know what radicale is, nor does it have it in its list of processes
107[01:35:04] <LtL> kittonian: as far as i know, 'service' is just a wrapper for systemctl, but i could be wrong.
108[01:35:12] <kittonian> so either I need an init.d script for radicale (preferred but I don't know how to convert a systemd script to a sysv script), OR I need to make the systemd script work with a sysv server
109[01:35:32] <kittonian> it's not just a wrapper. systemctl outputs differently than service
110[01:35:43] <kittonian> but either way, I need to figure this out asap
111[01:35:54] <kittonian> I can get radicale to start if I run python3 -m radicale --debug
112[01:36:06] <kittonian> but it doesn't seem to start if I just run python3 -m radicale
113[01:36:20] <kittonian> either one just hangs at the command prompt until I hit cntl-c to kill it
114[01:36:20] <mutante> might as well forget about 'service' and just make it work with 'systemctl'
115[01:36:33] <kittonian> i don't care how it works, as long as I get it working
121[01:37:57] <kittonian> mutante, if you can tell me how to get service to recognize the systemd script, I'm all for it
122[01:38:01] <mutante> kittonian: converting the entire server is probably not as much work as you think. if you copy a unit file from a template then it's mostly just adjusting the actual exec line to start it and maybe another to kill it
123[01:38:02] <kittonian> but right now it does not
124[01:38:11] <kittonian> i'm not converting the system
125[01:38:14] <kittonian> it's not happening
126[01:38:22] <kittonian> i just need to get this to start
127[01:38:50] <mutante> that's the same thing though
128[01:38:58] <kittonian> just this process
129[01:39:00] <kittonian> nothing else
130[01:39:03] <mutante> "converting the system" means writing a single file with few lines
131[01:39:30] <mutante> unless you mean systemd is not even installed
132[01:39:46] <kittonian> this is wheezy, systemd is installed as a tech preview but it is there
133[01:39:49] <kittonian> but we do not use it
134[01:40:19] <mutante> wheezy? wow, that's pretty crazy. even before jessie
135[01:40:27] <mutante> and that is already end of life
136[01:42:10] <mutante> yea, uhm.. not sure what to suggest then. try to find the blockers for an upgrade in general
171[02:08:08] <kittonian> ok, i got the init script working but it's using start_daemon instead of start-stop-daemon
172[02:08:13] *** Quits: Space_Man (~Space_Man@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
173[02:08:16] <kittonian> and start_daemon isn't writing the pidfile
174[02:08:24] <kittonian> but when I changed it to start-stop-daemon it is
175[02:08:59] <kittonian> but I apparently cannot use an --exec line to start /usr/bin/env python3 -m radicale because it says it doesn't know what radicale is
349[04:15:46] <themill> If your hardware is working ok, there's nothing to do. These are firmware files that the i915 module *can* use for certain hardware. They're not necessarily for your hardware and they're not necessarily essential
350[04:16:47] <themill> most of these firmware files are in the firmware-misc-nonfree package (you can check that with apt-file)
405[05:38:04] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
406[05:39:10] <maxrazer> So, can xz not decompress a file made with pixz? I notice that pixz named the file tpxz instead of tar.xz. I tried to decompress with xz too and it doesn't recognize the suffix / error.
413[05:44:43] <maxrazer> ChmEarl, Ok, I guess it can. I renamed the file and it does work. I guess I asked because I thought I might get some additional useful information. thanks.
562[08:38:58] <timothywcrane> no, info pages... using for extra info not in the man pages for most gnu utils used in netinstall... but wanted it online as I did not want to install info with apt... preparing some docs for a raw min deb vm for students
563[08:39:45] <awal1> hm
564[08:40:34] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
745[11:08:12] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
770[11:30:40] <Shadur> ksk: I'm aware, just figured it'd be a useful head's up for people.
771[11:32:12] <ratrace> rander2: when it finishes booting, check the logs. journalctl -p err journalctl -u networking.service
772[11:35:27] <Shadur> More relevant to the channel is that if anyone is considering getting a Radeon RX5600 or newer they absolutely need to upgrade to sid and get the very latest firmware-amd-graphics driver, because earlier ones either don't recognize the card at all or throw a kernel panic the moment they try to make it do anything beyond standard VGA text mode. Even rescue mode wasn't working because rescue mode does upscale
821[11:58:06] <rander2> ok, how may I disable dhcp on the boot ? service ... ?
822[11:58:07] <ratrace> rander2: I'm not too familiar with avahi, but I take it it's assigning the rfc subnet 169.254 since there's no mdsn responder, since there's no physical network beyond eth0 NIC
823[11:58:22] <ratrace> rander2: avahi is the mdns implmenentation thing on linux
825[12:00:00] <ratrace> rander2: avahi is probably set up by your desktop environment. my experience with avahi stops at knowing what it is and what it does. you disable eth0 (dhcp) by removing the stanzas from /etc/network/interfaces in this case
861[12:22:54] <Unit193> gpeskens: What specifically is your goal?
862[12:24:32] <gpeskens> I have a custom package that I don't want to be upgraded when our tooling runs either apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade, so I want to mark the package as held (or equivalent) to prevent that. Is there an "official" way to do this? I guess I can also just modify my postinstall script and add an apt-mark command
867[12:27:24] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
868[12:27:44] <gpeskens> H4ndy, we have a private repo where the package lives that is pinned with a higher prio. However we don't want the package to upgrade automatically even if a newer version of the package lives there
869[12:28:08] <gpeskens> Or does the config also allow to automatically pin/hold to the installed version?
870[12:28:25] <H4ndy> you can pin to exact versions as well
895[13:03:33] <shtrb> [debian testing][already asked in debian-next@oftc] - does anyone remember the package name that is needed to be installed to enable opening msg [CDFV2 Microsoft Outlook Message] files in Kmail/Kontact ? I already checked and have libemail-outlook-message-perl and KMail can open eml files (converted by msgconvert)
930[13:45:11] <Eryn_1983_FL> i really dont like the constant beebs when i hist the begining of the line or hit tab and nothting comes out
931[13:45:26] <Eryn_1983_FL> i use urvxt terminal but it happens in others too
932[13:46:32] <ksk> Eryn_1983_FL: Do you know about internet search engines by chance?
933[13:46:36] <beardy> !beep
934[13:46:36] <dpkg> [beep] printf \\a, or aptitude install beep, or ask me about <bell>, <qotd89>. For the audio player, ask me about <bmp>. For the protocol framework, see replaced-url
935[13:46:39] <beardy> !shell beep
936[13:46:39] <dpkg> hmm... shell beep is man inputrc ; man readline (i.e. edit ~/.inputrc and set bell-style none) - also man setterm.
937[13:46:45] <beardy> !bell
938[13:46:45] <dpkg> To disable the bell: "xset b off" in X, "setterm -blength 0" in console. For some reason, bash beeps excessively when in emacs (default) mode; "set -o vi" puts it in vi editing mode, which doesn't beep on partial completions. In konsole, Settings->Bell->Visible Bell. See also <pcspkr>, <shell beep>, <metacity bell bug>.
939[13:46:48] <beardy> I meant..
940[13:46:53] <Eryn_1983_FL> i do i do i am searching for it as we speak
961[14:04:48] <ratrace> there's nothing drastic about blacklisting the pcspkr module. that thing is an abomination. even though there are othre way to block beep, that damned thing must be perma-shushed
975[14:10:49] <GuiltySpark343> What do you guys think is the most widely used ftp server on debian?
976[14:11:42] <Ede|Popede> !popcon
977[14:11:42] <dpkg> well, popcon is the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at replaced-url
988[14:13:45] <ratrace> if you actually need a real-deal FTP server and not just SFTP (FTP over SSH), then vsftpd used to be very popular and recommended in the day.
989[14:13:54] <Ede|Popede> encryption and using a 2 port system seem to be the arguments. but they are convenient in the shell.
990[14:14:26] <ratrace> *back in the
991[14:15:11] *** Quits: plutes (~plutes@replaced-ip) (Quit: If you judge me now, you have judge me prematurely.)
1072[15:47:16] <Strogg> I'm trying to install synergy on buster and it seems like it's been removed. Is there another package or good substitute to use?
1073[15:48:03] <greycat> judd info synergy --release stretch
1074[15:48:04] <judd> Package synergy (x11, optional) in stretch/amd64: Share mouse, keyboard and clipboard over the network. Version: 1.4.16-2; Size: 714.4k; Installed: 3370k; Homepage: replaced-url
1075[15:48:22] <greycat> (for people like me who have no idea what it *is* ... now we know)
1076[15:48:44] <annadane> what's the command to find a process by pid?
1077[15:48:47] <Strogg> greycat: oh.. it's a keyboard and mouse sharing tool for multiple PCs
1081[15:49:37] <Strogg> greycat: you run it on two computers that are colocated and each have a screen, and you can move the mouse from one screen to another to determine which computer has keyboard/mouse focus
1082[15:49:50] <Strogg> essentially, it's a WM for PCs :)
1099[16:01:36] <icypee> My wifi card requires non free firmware
1100[16:01:51] <icypee> How do I install it without internet?
1101[16:02:01] <greycat> sneakernet
1102[16:02:14] <icypee> What's that?
1103[16:02:23] <greycat> Or, in most cases, you perform the Debian install with the unofficial image instead.
1104[16:02:26] <greycat> !sneakernet
1105[16:02:26] <dpkg> sneakernet is probably "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes", attributed to various people, including Andy Tanenbaum, Dennis Ritchie, and Warren Jackson, or generally file transfer accomplished via physical storage walked from host to host.
1106[16:02:50] <icypee> Ohhhh you mean the non free iso?
1107[16:02:56] <greycat> !firmware images
1108[16:02:56] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
1109[16:03:06] <icypee> Thanks
1110[16:03:29] *** Quits: icypee (493c5e9d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1111[16:05:12] *** Quits: idhugo (~idhugo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1118[16:09:09] <cstls> what's the bash command for running and refreshing another command every n number of seconds.. i can't remember. like if i wanted to have dig running every 30 seconds and refreshing itself
1119[16:09:26] <greycat> while sleep 30; do dig blah; done
1120[16:09:32] <cstls> ahh yes
1121[16:09:35] <cstls> thanks so much
1122[16:09:43] <greycat> but you were probably asking for watch(1) because everyone loves that piece of shit for some reason
1123[16:10:06] <cstls> well, i do think watch is what i did, but i should just do a simple script
1180[17:02:56] <greycat> The URLs in the <synergy> factoid no longer work for me. Plain white page in google-chrome with uBlock origin. Viewing page source shows something about parking.
1181[17:03:55] <greycat> dpkg, synergy is also Went proprietary; see <barrier>.
1182[17:03:56] <dpkg> greycat: okay
1183[17:04:00] <greycat> !synergy
1184[17:04:00] <dpkg> Synergy is a client/server program for sharing a keyboard and mouse between multiple systems (Linux, Mac OS X, Windows). replaced-url
1185[17:04:27] <greycat> the /topic of #synergy is ... interesting
1199[17:15:57] <nvz> I used to think synergy was amazing.. back when I had more devices than screens.. and it still has its uses.. but there is nothing like having good screens around.
1200[17:16:21] <greycat> so I'm the only person that's never heard of this things...
1202[17:16:45] <nvz> oh I used to have a hacked itouch even that I'd set next to my laptop and such and control it with synergy
1203[17:17:21] <nvz> now that I got this laptop with a 1080p screen, dock, and two 23" LTSP 1080p monitors to form a nice 3 headed setup.. its not really all that handy :P
1205[17:18:45] <nvz> only thing cramping this workstation now is the lack of a good chair and the fact I cant connect up the monitors through software to auto rotate and adjust brighness..
1208[17:20:24] <nvz> well I /can/ I just havent found the hardware to do it yet.. pi zero and usb gpio are hard to find it seems.. limited qty available
1223[17:25:57] <nvz> if this is to become a new standard thing, I should probably get to bitchin in the right places cause it doesnt seem like a good thing to me :D
1225[17:27:47] <nvz> I really just want this machine back to buster but I'd gotten this ssd in here in unknown condition with a machine that had windows.. and I've been using it awhile now with encrypted lvm and I really just dont think thrashing it with a reinstall to encrypted lvm is a good idea
1226[17:28:32] <nvz> any advice on that issue? like perhaps how to avoid rewriting all the random data again or such?
1227[17:28:35] <quadrathoch2> why wouldn't it be a good idea?
1237[17:30:39] <nvz> ah.. yeah.. idk I kept tellin myself I was just gonna order a new SSD for this machine and I havent yet.. and dont want it to crap out on me cause I put it through the woe of another install cause my dumb ass went to sid on the main machine I use for reasons I know better than to do
1238[17:31:05] <nvz> I just was reading upstream changelogs and wanted to see what some of the latest DEs looked like and how the features worked.. I should've just done it in a f'n vm :P
1240[17:31:48] <nvz> I got two other machines here with buster on em.. the one on the desk in the livingroom I rarely even touch.. could've done it on that one even
1241[17:31:59] <nvz> instead I got my 3headed workstaion on f'n sid :-(
1242[17:32:13] <nvz> instead of that crappy single headed core2 usff machine
1244[17:33:26] <nvz> I'm still new to SSD and I'd sold a machine with just a 32GB 42mm m.2 sata disk in it with buster.. and shortly afterward it died.. like totally died.. it wasnt accessible at all anymore
1245[17:34:09] <nvz> and that shit kinda scared me.. cause things like the 2.5in 120GB ssd in this machine.. idk how long or hard it was beaten before I got it.. but I've put it through some paces.. and I worry
1271[17:41:47] <ratrace> so that either is a very little used, but old SSD, or it friggin rolled through 32-bit count of LBA written
1272[17:42:03] <nvz> but since I've had it.. running Debian.. I've had it encrypted and nearly full all the time.. rotating stuff out to my external drive and such..
1273[17:42:03] <ratrace> anyway, problem with SSDs is that if they sit unused, they deteriorate
1274[17:42:25] <nvz> really? I thought only happened with hard drives
1276[17:42:25] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
1277[17:42:32] <ratrace> I'm not sure if that means permanent damage to cells, or they just lose memory, but powering it back on and zeroing out the entire drive would fix that
1278[17:42:47] <nvz> as the magnetic fields could weaken over time and the moving parts could rust or corrode
1279[17:43:10] <nvz> I figured SSD technology would shelve just fine
1286[17:46:36] <nvz> yeah my intention was to put an m.2 for the OS in this T440 and then a HDD in the sata bay where the ssd is now for /home or such.. like I have in the x240.. I got a 240G m.2 on / and a 1TB HDD on /home
1287[17:46:56] <nvz> I just haven't really had money to blow lately..
1288[17:47:21] <nvz> I been putting off reinstalling buster on here thinkin it'd be best to wait until I got a new ssd
1289[17:47:28] <nvz> I just didnt know if my concern was really rational or not
1290[17:47:43] <nvz> I just assume that I'm better off leaving it alone until I can get a fresh ssd
1291[17:48:52] <nvz> this machine the T440 currently just has the 128G SSD in the hdd bay, nothing in the WWAN port where I could put a 42mm m.2 disk, and a 1TB USB3 disk
1292[17:49:14] <nvz> and as we can see.. the SSD in here is old.. and I've been using it roughly as I said :P
1295[17:50:21] <nvz> I not only have it encrypted with all the system on it including /home and everything else.. but I also have 7 VM for each buster DE on it, and I even go so far as moving stuff off the external onto here while I work on it just to make it snappier :P
1296[17:50:30] <nvz> so I'm by no means treating it well :D
1298[17:51:25] <nvz> and since its so small I have to keep clearing things out, moving stuff to the external, and making room to keep working.. its always near full
1300[17:52:00] <quadrathoch2> Available Spare Threshold: 10% <- is this bad or good? oO
1301[17:52:08] <bigMouthCommie> You are in emergency mode. After logging in, type "journalctl -xb" .... i got this after a system restart. i restarted because it told me /home was unwritable.
1302[17:52:09] <nvz> I do however keep my apartment below 30C and I do typically put this machine to sleep when I leave.. I didnt know that could be a potential issue
1314[17:54:42] <nvz> ok.. well maybe do an lsblk, see which device is /home..
1315[17:54:59] <nvz> if its mounted it should show there.. and means its READABLE at least if it mounted
1316[17:55:26] <nvz> then perhaps try fsck that device, or remount it rw..
1317[17:55:57] <nvz> if it fscks clean, and remounts rw, you can then just hit the default target and get on with your life
1318[17:56:14] <nvz> mount -o remount,rw /home
1319[17:56:21] <nvz> if you dont know how to do that
1320[17:56:33] <nvz> or fsck /dev/sda2 or whatever device it is would probably be a good idea first :P
1321[17:56:57] <bigMouthCommie> sda has /boot/efi, a 16 M part i know nothing about, 100gb for win 10, 4g boot, 100g /, and my 62g /home is NOT ASSIGNED??
1322[17:57:13] <nvz> is everything on one disk?
1323[17:57:35] <bigMouthCommie> yea. i'm running fsck on sda6
1324[17:57:48] <bigMouthCommie> already found a corrupted orphan linked list
1325[17:58:24] <nvz> yeah you probably have it set to pass in fstab.. which means on boot it will need to pass a basic fsck or else it will error and mount read-only
1326[17:58:48] <nvz> and I didnt know systemd did that.. but I know that you can't login to a DE when you can't write your /home
1328[17:59:03] <nvz> guess its a good thing systemd detects the issue and drops you into single
1329[17:59:31] <nvz> otherwise users may just be confused why they login and it comes right back to the login screen :P
1330[17:59:40] <bigMouthCommie> thank you for the tip to run fsck. it just said "yes" to all the propmts, rebooted, and it looks like the systems coming up.
1331[18:00:06] <nvz> well all you needed to do was remount it rw and then systemctl default.. but w/e
1332[18:00:13] <nvz> rebooting works too :D
1333[18:00:24] *** Quits: CxP (~CxP@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1334[18:00:35] <bigMouthCommie> my first machine was win98
1347[18:06:23] <nvz> ratrace: yeah that temp stuff has me concerned now.. sounds to me like you need to not use SSD on laptops you're going to actually go mobile with
1348[18:07:21] <nvz> cause its not uncommon to toss a laptop in a bag, or take it in a car.. and out in summer weather... this article is suggesting that this heat could cause permanent damage
1349[18:08:26] * nvz contemplates what one could possibly do in a laptop to address such issues
1350[18:08:42] <nvz> anything you'd do to shield it from heat when off would probably make it hotter when in use
1356[18:12:15] <nvz> and while I dont understand all these values as pertains to SSD the fact that smart shows Perc_Avail_Resrvd_Space 99 sounds like its still reasonably healthy for its age
1357[18:12:35] <nvz> if that means as I think, that 99% of its overprovisioned space to handle failure is still available
1358[18:13:07] <bigMouthCommie> nvz are you a leo?
1359[18:13:16] <nvz> bigMouthCommie: wild guess?
1360[18:13:43] <bigMouthCommie> it's leo season and i have a playlist from a friend. she built it on spotify, i rebuilt it on youtube, and i wanted to share the love
1365[18:14:22] <nvz> bigMouthCommie: I'm a purebread leo in fact.. just didnt know if you knew that or were making a wild or educated guess :P
1366[18:15:02] <nvz> my mothers birthday is today, my fathers is on monday, and mine is the following monday
1367[18:15:17] <Bushmaster> Hi, I understand, in Linux Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, /media will hold details about mount point, but when I do cd /media and then ls -l I do not see the mount point for my USB Adroid tablet, why is that?
1370[18:16:05] <nvz> Bushmaster: because your android tablet is probably not on the VFS
1371[18:16:13] <nvz> Bushmaster: its probably using mtp
1372[18:16:21] <nvz> which is on gvfsd or such
1373[18:17:05] <nvz> Bushmaster: if it were a USB Mass storage device like a thumbdrive, it would be on the normal kernel level VFS
1374[18:17:08] <Bushmaster> nvz, I see, so in order for me to explore the file system of my Adroid tablet right from command line in my Debian desktop, is it possible at all?
1375[18:17:20] <edlou> yes with adb
1376[18:17:21] <nvz> Bushmaster: absolutely
1377[18:17:25] <nvz> thats one way
1378[18:17:36] <nvz> another is to connect gvfsd to the kernel
1383[18:18:31] <Bushmaster> nvz let me pastebin some stuff, I am learning the Linux File System and it is really interesting, freedom of exploring file is enormous
1384[18:18:57] <nvz> Bushmaster: yes when I teach linux stuff I like to start with that.. the everything is a file concept..
1385[18:19:29] <nvz> helps I think for users of windows and such to understand the key differences of linux to first realize what the VFS is, how it works, and what all it includes and how to manipulate it
1393[18:22:38] <nvz> Bushmaster: as for the solution to your issue, its a matter of how you wanna work and where you wanna do it.. the adb way will require you to not only install and use adb's interfaces but requires you to enable developer mode on android and enable USB Debugging
1397[18:23:24] <nvz> however the default "mount points" for gvfs-fuse are rather atrocious
1398[18:23:25] <Bushmaster> well, what I understood so far is hierarchy is critical, so you start with root (the mother of all children), then bin, then boot, then dev and carried on, I can see total of 24 items in root
1399[18:23:35] <nvz> often helps to use symlinks to sane locations with gvfs-fuse
1403[18:25:07] <nvz> Bushmaster: yes well you also have to keep in mind that FHS is a freedesktop.org standard.. its not a golden rule or anything.. its just a standard which people adopt and its subject to a lot of site- and distro- specific stuff
1404[18:25:17] <Bushmaster> nvz, in Debian file manager I see this mtp://[usb:007,010]/ which basically is the path for my Phone Storage as showing the main right hand pane in the file manager GUI window but I have never seen the path like this mtp://[usb:007,010]/ before
1405[18:25:28] <nvz> Bushmaster: thats why the FHS is vague in certain areas.. to allow for both standardization as well as customization
1410[18:26:21] <nvz> Bushmaster: yes the mtp:// smb:// ftp:// all that fancy protocol shit is done in userspace by something like gvfsd to connect stuff the kernel doesnt do natively to your GUI
1411[18:26:31] <nvz> Bushmaster: the shell doesnt see any of that naturally because it's talking to the kernel
1412[18:26:36] <Bushmaster> yes nvz yes I read that on the book I am reading to learn Linux, it says all UNIX like system will have by and large very similar File Standard Hierarchy but not exactly the same
1413[18:26:37] <icypee> Hey I installed the non free version and I still can't connect to the internet
1416[18:27:11] <nvz> Bushmaster: are you in fact using gvfsd? pretty much GNOME, MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE, etc.. do..
1417[18:27:16] <icypee> Is it supposed to do it automatically or am I supposed to do it manually?
1418[18:27:21] <nvz> KDE uses kio slaves
1419[18:27:49] <nvz> icypee: you mean you used an installer image which included nonfree firmware and you're trying to connect using wifi?
1420[18:28:00] <icypee> Yeah
1421[18:28:03] <nvz> icypee: did the wifi work during the install?
1422[18:28:08] <icypee> Mhm
1423[18:28:22] <nvz> then yes, if it was setup and used during install, it should've been automatic
1424[18:28:46] <icypee> It still won't work post install
1425[18:28:51] <Bushmaster> nvz, I do not know what is gvfsd as I am new to learning the file system hierarchy, the book says navigate the system and go into file systems and explore files, most file sin etc the book said are text ASCII and book wanted me to explore with file and less commands and I am enjoying it
1426[18:29:09] <nvz> icypee: we can of course debug it, but you'll need to explain a bit more.. what DE or network framework you're using.. what you're trying, whats happening.. etc
1427[18:29:24] <icypee> I'm using no de
1428[18:29:30] <icypee> Just tty
1429[18:29:38] <Bushmaster> nvz, now I am getting ambitious cos I plugged up the tablet and wanted to explore my Android file system and got stuck so I thought I come and visit you folks, but it may be too advance for me because whatever you typing above is bit advance
1430[18:30:39] <nvz> Bushmaster: gvfsd is a daemon that runs along with your user session that provides a bunch of high-level support for non-tradional filesystems.. it can connect to samba, webdav, ftp, ssh, mtp, etc.. and expose that to the GUI programs through a messaging bus.. it all happens way above the kernel's purview
1431[18:30:41] *** Quits: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1432[18:31:05] <Bushmaster> nvz, the book is just giving me the feelings of freedom of Linux, and I think the book will delve details later chapters
1433[18:31:10] <nvz> Bushmaster: simply installing gvfs-fuse however provides a userspace driver that connects all of gvfs to the kernel so it can be aware of these things
1434[18:31:53] <nvz> Bushmaster: yes, well I'm usually always interested in discussing the basics at length. :P
1435[18:32:15] <nvz> reminds me of simpler times helping people who really wanna learn, with the fundamentals :D
1437[18:32:37] <icypee> When I try to scan it tells me my wifi card doesn't support scanning
1438[18:32:40] <nvz> now I'm wrestling with all the new changes feelin like a damned idiot anymore with ipv6, systemd, etc..
1439[18:32:54] <Bushmaster> well, I will leave it for now then, cos it sounds too technical and me with little knowledge, it may not help me to learn much, I also noticed, when I am in boot directory and use less command to see the content of linux kernle, i get a screen full with gibberish codes
1441[18:33:14] <nvz> icypee: you mean doing iwlist wlp3s0 scan or such?
1442[18:33:49] <nvz> icypee: first thing you need to make sure you're using the correct device name and that it actually supports wifi extensions.. you can easily see this by just doing plain ol "iwconfig"
1443[18:34:15] <Bushmaster> nvz, I am sure I can learn a lot from you while read the book from chapter to chapter, I am enjoying reading it for sure
1444[18:34:28] <nvz> icypee: next if you are using the right device name and it shows wireless extensions, you need to make sure its not rfkill blocked in any way, and then make sure its in the proper state
1445[18:34:45] <nvz> sometimes just trying a dhclient or something on the if will knock it into the right state
1453[18:37:26] <nvz> yeah RTFM is usually a good thing
1454[18:37:33] <nvz> not always though..
1455[18:37:59] * nvz grumbles about inclusion of O'Reillys Using Samba in samba-doc
1456[18:39:21] <nvz> I'd been reading that years ago, trying to do some fancy logging.. and lets just say I argued with every and anyone over it.. heh.. the samba devs just flat out said.. this is wrong.. not only is it wrong, its not possible.. samba would have to be entirely rewritten from scratch to work this way.. :P
1457[18:39:45] <nvz> and the maintainer said they werent gonna stop including the document.. blah blah blah :-/
1461[18:44:26] <Bushmaster> nvz, can i ask you something, I know the question may sound pretty rudimentary, but I keep hammering this question, you know the computers in officer, people go and log in, by typing their user name and password, I think these computers (100 or more of them) are called work stations, and when they log in its windows OS. My question, is, does Linux server is enabling them to log in, to these windows work station or its windows server working
1462[18:44:27] <Bushmaster> at the backened?
1463[18:44:58] <RadoS> can be both
1464[18:45:05] <greycat> In almost all companies, it's a Windows server controlling the authentication.
1465[18:45:19] <greycat> But you'd have to ask your local IT department.
1466[18:46:17] <Bushmaster> okay thanks, so the next question, when I read Linux servers are most popular, in what aspects Linux servers are popular then?
1467[18:46:40] <greycat> Web servers, mail servers, DNS servers....
1468[18:46:53] <greycat> In a local context, file servers.
1477[18:51:15] <nvz> Bushmaster: it all comes down to a preference of the people implementing it.. IBM years ago sold off their personal computer business and embraced linux and issues pamphlets and crap calling IBM the universal business adapter.. and started focusing on how to deploy solutions rather than products.. linux /can/ do all that.. but some people prefer to do things on windows for any number of reasons
1479[18:51:47] <Bushmaster> so what I gathered from this important conversation is, universities and offices workstations where people have username and password and then log in to windows machine to do their work and log out, the server behind it is mostly windows server, on the other hand, web applications for example online banking, dynamic database driven websites, for example e-bay, Amazon, Paypal etc may be Linux based server
1480[18:51:55] <nvz> Bushmaster: I think the large marketshare of linux on servers these days is influenced by things like cost.. windows you gotta pay by the lisc for each machine so..
1481[18:52:06] <greycat> You said offices, not "universities and offices".
1482[18:52:25] <greycat> At universities, I won't even try to guess how many use Windows backends.
1484[18:54:16] <Bushmaster> greycat, I am just trying to get the picture, because I am doing course in web application development, Java, Linux, nothing on windows, other than DBMS SQL server 2016 and ADO and ASP . NET framework
1485[18:55:45] <Bushmaster> nvz, so there is good job prospects on Linux based system administration and web applications? I am not learning much on windows hence I worry, do I need to learn WIndows Server at all
1486[18:56:26] <greycat> #debian is not the place to ask that
1487[18:56:50] <nvz> Bushmaster: well if you go the windows server route, you'd probably have to continually update certifications and yeah its becomming less popular.
1488[18:58:05] <Bushmaster> thanks nvz and thanks greycat too, and sorry for off track inquiry
1492[19:01:51] <nvz> meh.. I think most people jumped off the apache bandwagon these days
1493[19:02:12] <nvz> it knocked me for a loop when they started doing split config then everyone was doing conf.d type crap
1494[19:02:35] <nvz> I like lighttpd now, its simpler.. and a lot of folk went to nginx or such
1495[19:03:11] <greycat> I switched from apache to nginx and I'm very glad I did.
1496[19:03:51] <nvz> I havent even tried nginx yet.. I tried lighttpd and I liked the simplicity.. I got 5 sites on 5 different ports all in one config, its just little fuss
1497[19:04:18] <nvz> the config file even having 5 sites in it is very small and clean.. everything in one place
1502[19:06:15] <Bushmaster> nvz, I just gone into proc and when I do ls -l it runs all the files, is there a way to see the files as in page by page or screen by scree in pause, I think something one can do in MS DOS, i think command is dir *.* / p I wonder something is available in Linux
1503[19:06:32] <nvz> I would if I were doing entirely seperate stuff for more production environment.. but for my simple personal needs I just wanna open one file and have it all in one place so I dont have to think about which thing I am looking for when I want to change something related to how my webserver is working on my network
1541[19:21:06] <greycat> Then your undestanding is VERY wrong, and it's good that you asked. A pipeline connects two separate commands. Each command has its own options/arguments.
1542[19:21:20] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1543[19:21:25] <greycat> In the case of "ls -l | less", one command is "ls -l" which is the "ls" command with the "-l" option.
1544[19:21:31] <greycat> The "less" command is not given any options or arguments.
1545[19:21:36] *** Quits: SirLagz (~sirlagz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1547[19:22:17] <Bushmaster> Ede|Popede, yes the book mentioned less is more because the more command in the past did not server page by page screen
1548[19:22:35] *** Quits: moetunes (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1549[19:22:46] <Bushmaster> greycat, thanks for clarifying it, so PIPE is way to join two commands, wow, the book did not cover that yet
1550[19:23:22] <Ede|Popede> connect stdout of A to stdin of B, that's the basic idea
1551[19:24:00] <Ede|Popede> small specialized tools for a specific job, but a lot of them
1552[19:24:21] <Bushmaster> thanks folks, its lot to learn, but its not boring, its fun learning Linux commands in my opinion I am learning from the book and I have lot of chapters to read
1556[19:26:11] <Ede|Popede> Bushmaster, tip. i did this long ago, distros were MUCH smaller than these days, also less in the bin directories. these days i'd probably go through the packages like gsdutils, util-linux, coreutils and the like.
1557[19:26:34] <Ede|Popede> just to have a bit of a structure and smaller peaces to digest.
1564[19:27:57] <Bushmaster> Ede|Popede, the book mentioned bin directory holds binary which I am not sure what it means, but I tried to see the content with less commands from bin directory and will try again but now I need to go
1565[19:28:42] <greycat> In this context, "binary" means a program, usually a compiled ("non-text") one, but that's antiquated; many of the programs in /usr/bin or /bin are actually text files holding scripts.
1567[19:30:04] <Ede|Popede> and 342 symlinks in /usr/bin right now here Oo
1568[19:30:06] <nvz> Bushmaster: the pipe takes the output of the left command and puts it into the input of the right command
1569[19:30:23] * nvz is being text-directionist? :P
1570[19:30:39] <Ede|Popede> textist?
1571[19:31:17] <Ede|Popede> the interface wars, episode 1: textists vs iconeers
1572[19:31:54] <Bushmaster> nvz, I like the pipe but when you in pipe, unlike MS DOS, you cant just type CTR+C to get out and freeze the screen right there and type commands, you have to press Q to get out, scroll to find the file you want to view, so it comes with some element of hassle
1573[19:31:56] * nvz throws a | at Ede|Popede
1574[19:32:29] <nvz> Bushmaster: Ctrl+Z
1575[19:32:45] <Bushmaster> let me try again nvz
1576[19:32:47] <nvz> Bushmaster: puts the current task into the background, returns you to the shell
1577[19:33:09] <nvz> can resume background tasks by bringing them into the foreground with "fg"
1578[19:33:43] <nvz> see also & (background a command), bg, and nohup
1579[19:33:48] <greycat> Bushmaster: you might want to try "ls -l | less -X" and if you like that, consider putting "export LESS=X" in your profile
1590[19:35:52] <greycat> It has uses, legit ones sometimes, but it also comes with a *massive* pitfall/caveat: it's completely fucking broken for arbitrary text input, such as filenames.
1591[19:36:01] <nvz> I'm just too lazy to keep all the lil quriks of BRE vs PCRE and which command uses which and crap
1592[19:36:40] <nvz> you even have issues like how with ssh -p is port, but with scp -P is port.. and how chmod/chown have -r and -R
1593[19:36:43] <Bushmaster> nvz, I like this CTR+Z realy make sense to me, greycat I will try but now I need to go thanks a lot for all the helps
1604[19:38:57] <diogenes_> Hello guys, does anyone have a clue why my 3g network refuse to autoconnect when ipv6 is set to automativ but it will autoconnect when ipv6 is set to ignore?
1605[19:39:09] <greycat> Fortunately, almost nobody knows MS-DOS these days, so we don't have to un-teach DOS habits.
1606[19:39:45] <diogenes_> automatic*
1607[19:40:42] <ndegruchy> hmm, any particular reason why grub (et al) would be held back by dpkg/apt?
1608[19:41:11] <nvz> there are lots of particular reasons, and I'm sure the package manager is aware of them
1609[19:41:14] <greycat> In almost every case, it's because you added some third party or future-release packages.
1610[19:41:28] <ndegruchy> I have no external repositories
1611[19:41:32] <ndegruchy> just buster and security
1612[19:41:33] <greycat> !bat
1613[19:41:33] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1614[19:41:36] <nvz> specifically an apt policy type command
1615[19:41:42] <ndegruchy> okay
1616[19:42:11] <nvz> I'd attempted to replace the apt-cache with apt in that factoid but its age locked, and got no response from don on the matter :P
1617[19:43:02] <greycat> nobody likes apt
1618[19:44:07] <nvz> oh, cmon now greycat .. don't tell me there isn't something about "WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.
1619[19:44:14] <nvz> that just warms your heart to it :D
1625[19:46:29] <nvz> I've mostly only adopted it because the new tool unifies several old ones and the syntax is simpler.. and I think it'd be beneficial to change documentation with older commands cause it confuses people why its different commands.. and idk if at some point the old tools may become deprecated and unmaintained
1626[19:46:46] <nvz> I still use net-tools though cause ip still confounds me a bit :D
1627[19:47:05] <nvz> but the apt transition is a fairly smooth one for most things
1628[19:49:21] <nvz> ndegruchy: try a full-upgrade and/or specifying a package like grub-efi-amd64 which I imagine will automatically select and pull in the others
1636[19:51:06] <nvz> things like dist-upgrade and full-upgrade loosen up the policy apt follows allowing it to do more things.. like remove things as needed and such
1637[19:51:32] <nvz> so just a normal upgrade is keeping them back because the operation would result in removal of something
1638[19:51:34] <greycat> I don't know why it wants to remove the -signed package, though.
1639[19:52:04] <greycat> The following packages will be upgraded:
1644[19:52:53] <greycat> There's definitely something different about *your* system that would cause that to behave differently. I just don't know what it is.
1645[19:53:20] <ndegruchy> well, lemme back up and reboot to see if grub is still working
1646[19:53:30] <greycat> mutante: ndegruchy is complaining that on their system, "apt upgrade" wants to remove one of those instead of upgrading it
1647[19:53:41] <nvz> yeah I'm not in the mood to try figure it out.. if they wanna post more output from a system having the issue.. including the apt policy output of the -signed packages in question, and a full-upgrade or manual specification of packages for upgrade/install output.. we can look at it
1649[19:54:21] <nvz> but I dont really feel like running shit down on the tracker and UDD and crap to figure out whats going on when I can't reproduce the issue
1657[19:58:22] <nvz> I havent seen any reasons that compel me enough to move to efi stuff more than necessary and introduce new possible problems I gotta learn to troubleshoot
1658[19:58:53] <greycat> In my case, it's "the machine came with windows and UEFI and I need to keep windows available for dual-booting".
1659[19:59:04] <ndegruchy> Well, the world failed to end when I rebooted. Grub displayed like it always does and I was able to decrypt my root volume, so all is good
1660[19:59:30] <nvz> ndegruchy: heh. you live on the edge
1661[19:59:55] <ndegruchy> I'm used to it from Arch :D
1666[20:00:50] <ndegruchy> Also, I'm far from helpless when a system fails to boot. I don't like fixing it, but I have self-inflicted experience to work off of :D
1667[20:01:24] <nvz> my machines give me the option to legacy boot so I do.. as I havent touched windows in a VERY long time
1679[20:09:12] <nvz> yeah I grasped lilo and syslinux type things.. was actually considering setting up pxelinux boot menu on my router again.. since I got 3 docks for my thinkpads layin around.. its handy to have various live and installer things available on teh network for booting
1680[20:09:58] *** Joins: Sierra (~sierrakom@replaced-ip)
1682[20:10:27] <nvz> I so don't understand modern bootloaders, when I had android and debian on my orangepi lite and debian crapped out.. I did some really wild kexec crap to boot back into debian from android.
1695[20:14:57] <nvz> at one point years ago after I'd built a Socket 775 P4 system with a 2tb drive all my laptops had broken hdd and I was too broke to fix em so I was just clickin them into a dock to pxe boot to ram and use a network drive.. was a bit convenient actually.. less heat, longer battery life, and when I wanted to change something I only needed to change the image on the boot server and reboot any machine for changes
1696[20:15:03] <nvz> to take effect
1697[20:16:48] <nvz> now hdds are so cheap you can get 8-10TB for under US$200 and 1-4TB for like $50 or less
1698[20:17:06] <netvixtra> but they are painfully slow
1699[20:18:07] <nvz> yeah.. I'm still learning the SSD stuff.. that article we just talked about earlier with potential temps and offline times effecting SSD data retention really suprised me
1700[20:18:48] <nvz> I had no idea how sensitive they can potentially be.. I knew they were more disposable convenience items..
1701[20:19:03] <nvz> which is why I dont own any really large ones cause its not worth the money
1702[20:19:12] <nvz> for something I'm gonna have to throw out and replace more often
1703[20:19:14] <netvixtra> they have solved the temperatur problems, they just throttle performance
1706[20:19:55] <nvz> well its not that... this article suggests that even storing them offline in most conditions will ruin them
1707[20:20:22] <nvz> suggests that you basically need to keep em between 30-40C at all times, when running or not running
1708[20:20:23] <edlou> nvz whats worse is these "aftermarket heatsinks"
1709[20:20:37] <edlou> where it is lowering the temperature of the ram instead of just the controller
1710[20:20:58] <nvz> and in a laptop.. in summertime.. or hell even in my apt with the AC on and the computer off..
1711[20:21:05] <edlou> and then there is the enthusiast/elite community which is watercooling their flash which is just the most cringe thing to do
1712[20:21:21] <nvz> trying to keep an SSD between 30-40C all the time even when not using it.. thats no simple task
1713[20:21:34] <netvixtra> Watercooling super fast M.2 NVME's are the only way
1714[20:21:47] <nvz> idk I see no need to cool any of the ones I got
1715[20:21:56] <nvz> their temps are perfect with no heatsinks or cooling
1716[20:22:03] <edlou> netvixtra: it's trivial, the controller at lower temp will perform better, the flash cells at lower temperatures wont
1717[20:22:20] <netvixtra> You buy a 970 Pro and expect 3500 MB/s read
1718[20:22:26] <nvz> last I checked this 2.5in 128G sata ssd in this machine it was 31C which seems to be perfect temp for them
1719[20:22:28] <netvixtra> but you only get 1000-1200 MB/s
1720[20:22:35] <netvixtra> because you don't have proper cooling
1721[20:22:48] <edlou> minimal aircooling keeps it within temperature range of optimal operation
1722[20:23:07] <nvz> these laptops I got they dont get hot at all really.. I can use em all day and the fans never even turn on at all
1723[20:24:55] <nvz> my cpu internal core temp is 40C, my SSD 30C right now, fan 0rpm.. got three screens going, wifi, bt, external hdd, encryption all the way around.. browser open..etc.. and its not sweating one bit
1733[20:40:56] <Azrael_-> i've got 1k log files and want to delete all files older than 30 days. how can i select those files best? can't find any matching options in find.
1734[20:41:08] <greycat> find . -type f -mtime +30 -print
1735[20:41:14] <greycat> change -print to -delete if you like the result
1743[20:56:03] <mutantturkey> hello, i have set UsePAM Yes" in my sshd config, i have rebooted sshd, and my pam config (/etc/pam.d/sshd)includes "session required pam_loginuid.so"
1744[20:56:26] <mutantturkey> However, when i cat /proc/self/uid_map, the 3rd field (auid) it's set to -1
1745[20:56:31] <mutantturkey> so it doesn't seem like sshd is using pam
1746[21:01:31] *** Quits: voidSurfr (~todd_dsm@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1778[21:31:40] <annadane> i guess the real reason i'm asking is a) i'm not on a multi user machine so i'm not worried about other users b) i'm just wondering if putting ssh keys in /home with default permissions of /home is a good idea or not
1779[21:31:59] <greycat> It's fine. The private key is created with 600 permissions.
1781[21:32:14] <Kyros> yeah ssh wont even run without proper permissions
1782[21:32:25] <mutante> annadane: its /home vs /home/.ssh the latter should not be open
1783[21:32:41] <Kyros> well you cant use keys without proper permissions
1784[21:32:45] <greycat> .ssh at 755 is fine too.
1785[21:33:14] <greycat> sshd only enforces permission strictness when considering whether to trust the public keys listed in your .ssh/authorized_keys file
1787[21:36:54] <RoyK> $HOME/.ssh/id_rsa (or similar for other ciphers) really shouldn't be 644, though ;)
1788[21:37:07] <greycat> Correct. And it's created with 600 as I said before.
1789[21:37:48] <tarzeau> if i have an rtsp that i want to share with others, it'll kill my bandwith, is there a trick? i could setup a proxy rtsp proxy but i couldn't find anthing packaged...
1790[21:38:34] <greycat> I have no idea what an rtsp is, but I'll assume it's a large file. Host it on your web server, which presumably has lots of outgoing bandwidth. Then you only have to upload it one time.
1791[21:39:08] <tarzeau> video streaming (ip cameras use that)
1792[21:39:14] <RoyK> realtime streaming protocol
1793[21:39:18] <tarzeau> squid is only http, but i found something crtmpserver-apps
1794[21:40:01] <RoyK> usually the media stream(s) are sent over rtp, though
1795[21:40:14] <RoyK> with rtcp controlling it
1796[21:40:44] <tarzeau> RoyK: aha, but then mplayer/vlc and the like (homebridge.io) are wrong calling it rtsp://ip/stream
1797[21:41:12] <RoyK> tarzeau: no, rtsp has all the data describing how to use the other protocols
1798[21:41:15] <tarzeau> RoyK: and a grep on /etc/services doesn't show up rtp, only rtsp for me 554/tcp+udp
1799[21:41:25] <tarzeau> aha, then i have no idea :)
1800[21:41:59] <RoyK> tarzeau: you can start out here ;) replaced-url
1801[21:42:19] <tarzeau> RoyK: thanks, but no thanks :)
1802[21:44:33] <annadane> if i haven't added anything specific to .ssh, does any system component use it?
1803[21:44:40] <annadane> in other words can it be removed safely
1804[21:44:59] <greycat> Is this a trick question? It's used by ssh and by sshd.
1805[21:45:14] <greycat> Why would you WANT to remove it?
1806[21:45:49] <RoyK> because it's unknown and thus scary? ;)
1807[21:46:34] <sney> ~/.ssh contents are generated on the fly by ssh, so if you remove it, you'll probably just get a new one the next time you run ssh.
1808[21:46:53] <annadane> ignore me, i'm being particularly stupid today
1809[21:46:57] <greycat> You'll have to re-affirm the host keys for every site again.
1824[22:06:23] <abff> where in the debian system does power management of the ethernet NIC happen? I just calibrated powertop and discovered my ethernet nic is using more power than my backlight, and it's never been plugged in this entire time!
1834[22:09:00] <abff> sney: I just echo 1 >> sysfs/yada/nic/remove and the power consumption dropped by a third
1835[22:09:42] <abff> but I'd still like to be able to turn it on without having to reboot and change a bios setting
1836[22:09:45] <sney> if you look at the output for /sbin/modinfo for your ethernet driver, there may be an option you can enable for lower power usage. but again, if you aren't using it, disabling the device entirely is the best option
1837[22:10:46] <abff> sney: I'd like to power it down and power it back on, manually, if acpi and the driver are too dumb to keep it quiet
1841[22:20:35] <jhutchins> I've disabled a couple of sites from my Apache server, and now certbot is failing on one of the sites that is no longer registered, but is not in sites-enabled.
1895[23:02:24] <Bushmaster> nvz, `Hi just realized that CTR+Z does not really freeze the screen where file is located
1896[23:05:13] <greycat> ctrl-z sends the suspend signal to the shell's foreground job. This suspends that job. You have to use fg or bg to un-suspend it.
1897[23:05:53] <greycat> It does *not* do the equivalent of "terminate my pager and leave the contents on the screen and let me type shell commands again".
1901[23:06:32] <jaggz> how do you tell apt "ok, go ahead with those.. yeah.." Depends: libmbedtls12 (= 2.16.0-1) but 2.16.0-dmo1~bpo9+1 is to be installed
1902[23:06:54] <greycat> !remove dmm
1903[23:06:54] <dpkg> If you want to remove the packages from deb-multimedia.org and reinstall the packages from Debian repositories, one could do this: dpkg --remove --force-depends $(aptitude search '?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p); remove the dmm repository from sources.list; apt-get update; apt-get install -f; install the still missing packages which were removed in the former process ...
1904[23:07:30] <jaggz> oh is that this problem? I think I can't escape the need for mm
1914[23:12:44] <Bushmaster> greycat I tried but did not see it worked, but let me try again, i just gone to /usr/bin and there I see half a million files, very intimidating
1917[23:16:37] <Bushmaster> greycat, OHHHHHHHH YES, you are beautiful man, it worked, that is very useful command with -X, I went to /usr/bin and then Page Down to where crontab file is and pressed Q and it worked, back to command prompt and I can see that screen where crontab I located ...
1918[23:17:37] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: using ctrl-z also asks to learn about jobs, besides fg/bg, and disown
1922[23:19:08] *** Quits: jl_678 (183fe0ec@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1923[23:19:32] <Bushmaster> tarzeau, I am learning, very early stage of learning the Linux file systems and its really enjoyable, so much freedom, simply amazing, all open and no issues
1924[23:21:01] <tarzeau> the funny thing with linux file systems is, there aren't that many of them, but linux supports a lot of file systems
1925[23:21:21] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: yah, 20+ years ago i also though, oh cool debian, zero bugs
1929[23:24:00] <joze> the murderer that made reiser FS?
1930[23:24:06] <n4dir> not sure if it might be an idea to tell Bushmaster about wooledge.org , which might avoid the most common bad habits one may find in books and online.
1931[23:24:39] <n4dir> sure won't hurt to use it in addition to the book
1932[23:25:09] <joze> reiser FS is imntegrated in rext4 now isn't it?
1933[23:25:15] <Bushmaster> I am enjoying learning Linux for sure tarzeau the filesystem is artwork, its amazing, because I can see the hierarchy from root and then bin is second which basically holds the programs for OS to boot and run and then boot which presents how to boot and then /dev and it goes on in a order, it helps learning how OS works
1934[23:25:18] <joze> *ext4
1935[23:25:56] <tarzeau> i've only ever used xfs and btrfs, and well now finally exfatprogs
1936[23:26:23] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: pity you missed /etc/inittab
1937[23:26:31] <n4dir> thought the same ...
1938[23:26:42] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: it's simplicity was a delight of excellence with a cherry on top
1940[23:27:03] <Bushmaster> and there is bin under usr which is not the same bin, it make sense, first bin boot and run the OS, /usr/bin run programs that usr installed or came with Linux
1941[23:27:18] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: let me guess you use ip, and not ifconfig, and also not netstat but ss
1942[23:27:30] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: the best bin is /usr/games/
1943[23:27:53] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: with linux no bin came, but with the gnu userland
1944[23:28:10] <n4dir> isn't /usr/bin just a link for /bin ?
1945[23:28:24] <Bushmaster> tarzeau, I am learning from the book, conceptions and foundations, I am only in chapter 4, the book has more than 20 chapters
1962[23:38:42] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1963[23:38:49] <Bushmaster> n4dir, very rich, lot of information and well structured, I sure will read from there too, it appears greycat is leading authority so I am honored
1964[23:38:54] <tarzeau> don't forget the best bash documentation is not at bash.org
1965[23:39:21] <Bushmaster> so the emulator I am using in my Debian is bash?
1966[23:39:32] <tarzeau> Bushmaster: it's a $SHELL
1967[23:39:42] <tarzeau> !emulator
1968[23:39:42] <dpkg> emulator is, like, hardware or software which performs emulation. For related software, ask me about <bochs>, <dosbox>, <dosemu>, <nintendo>, <virtualization>.
1969[23:39:54] *** Quits: MrTrick (uid181961@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1970[23:40:15] <Bushmaster> I get confuse, shell is a program that transfer my commands to BASH?
1977[23:45:40] <greycat> n4dir: /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin on new Debian 10 installs (*not* upgrades unless you explicitly take steps to do the UsrMerge yourself)
1978[23:46:15] <n4dir> greycat: it is that new? i thought it wa slike that for longer
1979[23:46:16] <greycat> Bushmaster: bash is a shell. It runs inside a terminal.
1980[23:46:27] <greycat> !usrmerge
1981[23:46:27] <dpkg> /usr merge is the combining of /bin and /usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin on fresh installs of Debian 10 Buster. On machines upgraded from Stretch, this is optional, and can be accomplished if desired via the usrmerge package
1982[23:46:47] <n4dir> you learn a new thing everyday. thanks for clarifying
1983[23:47:20] *** Quits: voidSurfr (~todd_dsm@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1987[23:50:24] <dpkg> Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See replaced-url