• 0[00:01:08] *** Joins: cdown_ (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 1[00:01:32] <Numero-6> Hi all, i have make a service with systemd for test my connectivity network. At this moment i use netcat for test an wan website like nc -z -w 5 8.8.8.8 53, and a while loop. What is the better command for do that, and the most generic, netcat, ping, /dev/tcp/ ?
• 2[00:01:42] <Numero-6> wlan*
• 3[00:02:27] <greycat> (they asked this in #bash and I told them to use ping) (their actual rationale was "sometimes I do not pay my bill and the cut off my Internet and I want to know when this happens")
• 4[00:03:07] <sney> install monitoring_plugins and use check_tcp, and then try to consider why you aren't using nagios/icinga/etc for monitoring when reinventing the wheel with systemd is so much more work
• 5[00:03:15] <sney> ,v monitoring-plugins
• 6[00:03:16] <judd> Package: monitoring-plugins on amd64 -- jessie: 2.1.1-1; stretch: 2.2-3; stretch-backports: 2.2-6~bpo9+1; bullseye: 2.2-6; buster: 2.2-6; sid: 2.2-6
• 7[00:03:29] <Numero-6> greycat: yes i have lose the discussion. that no just about the paid, that my ISP is lot of instable
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• 10[00:04:06] <sney> look at all of those *options* replaced-url
• 11[00:04:18] <Numero-6> ok i do test ping -c 1 and other settings, and i look for package you say
• 12[00:04:45] <sney> monitoring plugins install to /usr/lib/nagios/plugins so they will not be in your PATH, fyi.
• 13[00:05:08] <Numero-6> ok sney i look read, understand and test
• 14[00:05:24] <greycat> what do you want the monitor to *do* when it detects that the internet is dead?
• 15[00:05:59] <Numero-6> greycat: i use ifupifdown, wifi, custom dns, vpn and other
• 16[00:06:23] <Numero-6> sometime i need to know at what time i can't access to network
• 17[00:06:44] <Numero-6> for look the log with this time
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• 19[00:07:03] <Numero-6> so i begging to write a full servic for testing all that
• 20[00:07:04] <greycat> oh, you want *logging* and shit? well, then you want a real solution, not some cobbled-together bash script
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• 22[00:08:11] <Numero-6> i have sometime feature with wpa_supplicant and other i have make one log by service so that can help for easy found what is the problem
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• 24[00:08:47] <Numero-6> but i think i go use ping, because i need a generic tool for my backup and fresh install
• 25[00:08:56] <greycat> you want to be able to ask your logging-monitoring thing, "for the last 24 hours, show me when the internet worked, and when it did not" -- that means you need a *real* solution, not a cobbled-together piece of crap
• 26[00:09:17] <sney> so if you had a local website that showed you the service status, and maybe it sent you an email to notify you of the change, that would be good? again: nagios.
• 27[00:09:33] <Numero-6> greycat: yea that what you think, i think other lol
• 28[00:09:49] <greycat> if you keep moving the goalposts, guess what I am going to do?
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• 30[00:10:35] <Numero-6> i can't explain the full project, but i have make lot of project that interesting other
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• 32[00:11:14] <Numero-6> kiss you greycat :D i go testing ping and filter the output and thank sney i go look what is theses tools
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• 38[00:19:03] <pasiz> Numero-6: could you explain what isp is so unstable you need to constantly monitor it?
• 39[00:19:09] <pasiz> i suggest to change isp
• 40[00:19:54] <sney> sometimes people can't. or sometimes national infrastructure is so bad that all of the isps suck
• 41[00:20:02] <sney> monitoring is a good thing to know how to do, anyway
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• 45[00:22:32] <pasiz> i think monitoring is invented, no need to reinvent the wheel
• 46[00:22:46] <sney> I agree which is why I said nagios something like 4 times
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• 49[00:24:06] <Numero-6> pasiz: long story, and i have look lot of thing
• 50[00:24:09] <pasiz> prtg, snabbix etc
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• 53[00:24:32] <mutante> Numero-6: icinga
• 54[00:24:33] <pasiz> mean zabbix
• 55[00:24:34] <Numero-6> I have found one time a guy wh spawn me with desauth request
• 56[00:24:40] <Numero-6> and other and other xD
• 57[00:25:04] <pasiz> then i suggest using wpa2 enterprise
• 58[00:25:07] <Numero-6> So i make lot of script for monotoring all that and no lose my time
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• 60[00:25:27] <Numero-6> i use a gtk notification for see that in real time
• 61[00:25:45] <pasiz> all of the solutions have monitoring and notification services
• 62[00:25:56] *** Joins: pmy (~user@replaced-ip)
• 63[00:25:57] <Numero-6> yup
• 64[00:26:33] <pasiz> and they will bend to more than you could imagine
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• 66[00:27:27] <Numero-6> in the past i have make a 5 xterm spawns, each monotoring a service
• 67[00:27:50] <Numero-6> but i have lose the code, so i don't want rewrite, and i test other
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• 75[00:35:28] <noosanon> guys, what about munin??
• 76[00:35:35] <noosanon> it's great
• 77[00:35:39] *** Joins: ephemer0l_ (~ephemer0l@replaced-ip)
• 78[00:36:14] <noosanon> and it works right out of the box
• 79[00:36:24] <noosanon> just install it and use it
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• 82[00:36:39] <noosanon> apt install munin-node and apt install munin
• 83[00:36:45] *** Quits: Tyrasuki (~Tyrasuki@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 84[00:36:46] <noosanon> and it just works...
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• 87[00:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1171
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• 93[00:42:31] <jhutchins> Is there a program that will check the partition table(s)?
• 94[00:42:34] *** Quits: wymillerlinux (~wymillerl@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 95[00:43:40] <jhutchins> I keep getting "Invalid Partion Table" on boot. It will continue a normal boot if I hit any key.
• 96[00:45:37] <rany> if this happened all of a sudden then most likely your hard drive is failing
• 97[00:45:52] <rany> you should make sure you backed up everything asap
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• 99[00:46:55] *** Joins: ndegruchy (~ndegruchy@replaced-ip)
• 100[00:47:27] <adfeno> Hi, I have one question, in "Provides" of debian/control file, which type of package is allowed? "Source" or "Package" ?
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• 105[00:50:51] <rany> replaced-url
• 106[00:51:45] *** Quits: renzhi (~renzhi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 107[00:51:59] <adfeno> Oh, as far as I understand, it doesn't matter, all that matters is that the name matches another one that needs to be provided.
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• 111[00:58:49] *** Joins: MESSIAH (5610dafd@replaced-ip)
• 112[00:58:54] <MESSIAH> Hi
• 113[00:59:12] *** Quits: mihi (~mihi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 114[00:59:15] <sney> hi
• 115[00:59:38] <MESSIAH> I have problem with Apache 2
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• 118[00:59:52] <MESSIAH> I can't use .htaccess and .htpasswd
• 119[01:00:24] <sney> what happens when you try?
• 120[01:00:33] <MESSIAH> Nothing
• 121[01:00:34] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
• 122[01:00:41] <MESSIAH> Like it's not eneble
• 123[01:00:45] <rany> did you setup Override ?
• 124[01:00:52] <MESSIAH> Probably not
• 125[01:01:04] <MESSIAH> Where I should do that?
• 126[01:01:26] *** Quits: runlevel7 (~runlevel7@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 127[01:01:44] <rany> in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf
• 128[01:02:11] <rany> search for AllowOverride and set it to All
• 129[01:03:05] *** Quits: Lord_of_Life (~Lord@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 130[01:03:14] <rany> (make sure you're in the right <Directory ..> though)
• 131[01:03:25] *** Joins: Lord_of_Life (~Lord@replaced-ip)
• 132[01:03:39] <MESSIAH> It's working
• 133[01:03:44] *** Parts: adfeno (~Icedove@replaced-ip) ()
• 134[01:03:49] <MESSIAH> Thank you all
• 135[01:04:06] <MESSIAH> Done kaboom \O/
• 136[01:04:17] *** Quits: spacebison (~bison@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 137[01:04:26] *** Quits: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip) (Quit: killed)
• 138[01:04:35] <rany> great :)
• 139[01:05:22] *** Quits: mfranzwa (~mfranzwa@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 140[01:05:36] <noosanon> such a good OS
• 141[01:05:45] <MESSIAH> I like it very much
• 142[01:05:46] <noosanon> lol
• 143[01:05:57] <MESSIAH> I'm with Debian about 8 years
• 144[01:06:05] <noosanon> ohhh I absolutely love it
• 145[01:06:08] <MESSIAH> I wish get Debian on my smartphone
• 146[01:06:30] <noosanon> so stable...
• 147[01:06:47] <noosanon> and no great reasource requirements
• 148[01:07:59] *** Joins: iflema (~ian@replaced-ip)
• 149[01:08:24] <MESSIAH> It's Argon2 support .htpasswd ??
• 150[01:08:55] <MESSIAH> I can't login using this but when I change to Bcrypt it's working fine
• 151[01:09:39] *** Joins: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip)
• 152[01:10:13] <sney> behold, a list: replaced-url
• 153[01:11:35] *** Joins: darunesh (~darunesh@replaced-ip)
• 154[01:12:02] <MESSIAH> What other options are available??
• 155[01:12:17] <MESSIAH> Basic and oher is??
• 156[01:12:41] <tomreyn> scroll down
• 157[01:14:48] <MESSIAH> Digest
• 158[01:14:51] *** Joins: jlbuckner (~jlbuckner@replaced-ip)
• 159[01:14:53] <MESSIAH> OK thank you
• 160[01:15:21] <MESSIAH> I need setup e-mail server for my web server
• 161[01:15:34] <MESSIAH> Do someone know any good tutorial?
• 162[01:16:44] <sney> this will get you going, for the most part: replaced-url
• 163[01:16:55] <sney> hosting your own email can be tiresome, though. you may want to use a hosted service instead.
• 164[01:17:02] <p4xz> MESSIAH: mailcow if you want something simple that works out of the box
• 165[01:17:02] *** Quits: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 166[01:17:30] <mutante> sudo dpkg-reconfigure exim -> select 'satellite system' -> enter external mail server. <the end>
• 167[01:17:48] <mutante> eh, sorry, replace exim with postfix :)
• 168[01:18:24] <MESSIAH> I have Postfix and Dovecot
• 169[01:18:40] <sney> I've also heard good things about iredmail as a self-hosted option that makes configuration easier.
• 170[01:18:53] *** Quits: Spr1ng (~Spr1ng@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
• 171[01:19:11] <sney> any good email server has postfix and dovecot, but it's a lot more complicated to do properly than hosting a website.
• 172[01:19:16] <mutante> don't run postfix/mysql/spamd just to have outgoing mail to the webmaster
• 173[01:19:45] <MESSIAH> But I can't configure DNSSEC
• 174[01:19:46] <p4xz> sney: what about opensmtpd
• 175[01:20:00] <sney> there are many mtas but postfix is the best one
• 176[01:20:07] <p4xz> why
• 177[01:20:11] <MESSIAH> sney yes it's half automated but not supporting MYSQL
• 178[01:20:30] <mutante> you only need mysql support if you have many users with actual inboxes
• 179[01:21:05] <mutante> are you planning to be the mail admin for many other people? don't do it :p
• 180[01:21:26] <sney> p4xz: I'm not going to die on this hill, but it's powerful and sensible and the docs are clear. I will always tell people to use what they're accustomed to, unless they're starting from 0, in which case use postfix :P
• 181[01:21:36] *** Quits: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip) (Quit: killed)
• 182[01:21:59] <tomreyn> those who want to "setup e-mail server for my web server" should really create ab snto account at some managed mail service and configure their web application to use this mail account with smtp-auth, though.
• 183[01:22:05] <p4xz> sney: I'm asking because I started from 0 with opensmtpd following a tutorial ^^
• 184[01:22:10] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 185[01:22:17] <MESSIAH> sney iRedMail not support MYSQL
• 186[01:22:20] <tomreyn> snto -> SMTP
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• 189[01:22:29] <p4xz> it seems to be very simple and works well for me
• 190[01:23:03] <sney> MESSIAH: ok? why are you telling me
• 191[01:23:17] *** Quits: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 192[01:23:18] <MESSIAH> You mentioned it before
• 193[01:23:23] *** Joins: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip)
• 194[01:23:30] <MESSIAH> I was try to use it without succes
• 195[01:24:28] *** Quits: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 196[01:24:32] <MESSIAH> Someone know how to setup DNSSEC?
• 197[01:24:40] <sney> I've heard good things about it but I've never tried it. glancing at their documentation page, there are a few mentions of mysql, so maybe you forgot to enable that backend or something.
• 198[01:25:15] <MESSIAH> Nope I was get support from author and He said he drop support for MYSQL
• 199[01:25:26] <sney> ah, well. postgres is fine too.
• 200[01:25:37] <mutante> it has a "web-admin panel". that disqualifies it for me
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• 203[01:26:31] <MESSIAH> After version 0.9 he decide to left MYSQL - probably money in his pocket is not satisfied
• 204[01:26:46] <mutante> MESSIAH: so is it "mail for my webserver" or is it "i want to be an email provider for others?
• 205[01:26:59] <MESSIAH> mutante : You can install postfix admin web panel as well
• 206[01:27:03] <MESSIAH> I have it
• 207[01:27:09] *** Quits: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 208[01:27:19] <MESSIAH> Only for my VHosts
• 209[01:27:25] <mutante> MESSIAH: ok, but can you _not_ install it with iredmail?
• 210[01:27:26] *** Joins: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 211[01:27:43] <MESSIAH> Yes
• 212[01:27:55] <MESSIAH> I don't have iredmail
• 213[01:28:12] <mutante> MESSIAH: then that is all completely overkill to even worry about "mysql support"
• 214[01:28:13] <MESSIAH> I have standalone Postfix + Dovecot
• 215[01:28:51] <mutante> MESSIAH: do you have ANY existing email address?
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• 218[01:29:14] <MESSIAH> Yes I have and I'm using it for sending e-mails to my customers
• 219[01:29:22] <mutante> just tell postfix to send your mail to your existing mail server
• 220[01:29:27] <MESSIAH> For my MYSQL is very important
• 221[01:29:29] <mutante> then you are done
• 222[01:29:42] *** Joins: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip)
• 223[01:29:54] <mutante> with dpkg-reconfigure you can do all that in a wizard, not even editing config files
• 224[01:30:01] <MESSIAH> What's gonna happened? Infinity loop?
• 225[01:30:18] <MESSIAH> Yes I was do that
• 226[01:30:24] *** Joins: horribleprogram (~horriblep@replaced-ip)
• 227[01:30:31] <mutante> no? the postfix MTA will do its job and _transfer_ your mail
• 228[01:30:35] <mutante> to where it should go
• 229[01:30:51] <MESSIAH> I found good tutorial with lot of information
• 230[01:31:01] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 231[01:31:03] * mutante gives up
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• 233[01:31:41] *** Quits: iflema (~ian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 234[01:31:59] <mutante> MESSIAH: it's literally a single command line.. but if you really want to follow tutorials just for fun then that's another story. good luck
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• 237[01:33:31] <MESSIAH> mutante You need follow tutorial or your e-mails will be rejected
• 238[01:34:04] <sney> I'm assuming there's some part of the puzzle that #debian isn't privy to.
• 239[01:34:23] *** Joins: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip)
• 240[01:34:32] <sney> MESSIAH: have fun setting up an email server, and be extra careful with dovecot's auth config
• 241[01:34:35] <MESSIAH> If you just install Postfix + Dovecot you need set it up because lot of receivers will missed your e-mails
• 242[01:35:17] <p4xz> the rest is really just dns txt records nad setting your server's hostname
• 243[01:35:30] <p4xz> and making sure your ip isn't on a blacklist for some reason
• 244[01:35:42] <MESSIAH> I was lot of fun to set up emails for VHosts
• 245[01:35:45] *** Joins: raver (f98f5ce56e@replaced-ip)
• 246[01:35:54] <sney> email is a publicly networked system, and 90% of the time, there is some other mta that you can reach and use as a smarthost so that you don't have to admin one yourself. but there are always exceptions. and there's no downside to knowing more about how email works, anyway
• 247[01:36:39] <petn-randall> Handling email properly is a *lot* more complex than running a web server, IMHO.
• 248[01:37:14] <sney> it is way more complicated and there are way more places where it can go horribly wrong
• 249[01:37:55] <MESSIAH> petn-randall yes it's true. I see sometimes strange action
• 250[01:38:12] <sney> the note about dovecot auth was from experience - there is an imap option that was a best practice once upon a time, until it became a security hole that botnets could use to send email from your users
• 251[01:38:47] <MESSIAH> Why nobody make e-mail easier?
• 252[01:38:51] <MESSIAH> Like a web chat
• 253[01:38:56] *** Quits: jlbuckner (~jlbuckner@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 254[01:39:15] <sney> many have tried, but smtp keeps outliving them
• 255[01:39:18] <MESSIAH> Should be simple settings and simple installation
• 256[01:39:54] <MESSIAH> I hope this will change fast
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• 258[01:40:17] <sney> you think that at first, but the actual requirements for sending messages to anyone, anywhere on the internet, quickly get more complicated than you'd think
• 259[01:41:34] <MESSIAH> To much spammers around and before you get e-mail server working you will spend lot of weeks to trying fix simple errors
• 260[01:42:04] <sney> and none of the big sexy startups will ever succeed in replacing email because it's a necessary service. any lasting replacement for smtp cannot be profitable. so here we are, lol :)
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• 262[01:42:23] <mutante> MESSIAH: lol, this is why several people have been telling you that it's not a good idea. now you say this yourself
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• 264[01:43:47] <MESSIAH> Personally if you have business and selling using your own shop you should keep e-mails with you no on others e-mail providers
• 265[01:44:18] <sney> there are definitely good security reasons for doing it that way.
• 266[01:44:22] <MESSIAH> Most of companies scan e-mails etc
• 267[01:44:45] <sney> I'm not going to tell you not to host an email server, just be aware, there be dragons
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• 269[01:44:52] <MESSIAH> So if you have similar shop to ebay then you will be easier target for them
• 270[01:45:15] <mutante> MESSIAH: you came in here saying "it's just for the webserver" and now it is "run your own ebay". that is completely different
• 271[01:45:33] <mutante> but i see the point about wanting to control your own mail. that's fair
• 272[01:46:05] <mutante> you can use Protonmail instead of Google though, f.e.
• 273[01:46:36] <MESSIAH> I can bet google use some scripts to scan e-mails of some merchant companies
• 274[01:46:57] <annadane> he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy.
• 275[01:47:04] <sney> at some point you always have to trust that x or y provider is being honest when they say that they aren't looking at your stuff
• 276[01:47:16] <MESSIAH> How you can make a business where you are watched
• 277[01:47:31] <graphicsv> Debian keeps warning me about newer kernel available. How can I fix it?
• 278[01:47:47] <mutante> MESSIAH: encrypt your mail with GPG
• 279[01:47:49] <sney> graphicsv: consider yourself warned, and ignore the message?
• 280[01:48:35] <petn-randall> graphicsv: "warning" you? Where does it say that? Maybe you running one of those update notifiers, so you likely need to just install all updates.
• 281[01:48:58] <annadane> and also what release are you on? stable, testing?
• 282[01:49:02] <MESSIAH> mutante yes you can do that on your server but if you use google?
• 283[01:49:07] <mutante> MESSIAH: at least you can use a mail provider where the business model is not based on reading your mail, basically. so that means paying for it
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• 285[01:49:15] <annadane> but what petn-randall said is closer to the point, make sure you're fully updated
• 286[01:49:24] <sney> graphicsv: debian has a very strict package version policy, so for your custom kernel, you may need to change the version string so that apt can tell it is "newer" than the one in buster/buster-bpo.
• 287[01:49:49] <graphicsv> petn-randall: ` Newer kernel available. The currently running kernel version is 4.19.134-ryzen which is not the expected kernel version 5.8.0-rc6-ryzen. Restarting the system to load the new kernel will not be handled automatically, so you should consider rebooting.`
• 288[01:50:16] <graphicsv> Maybe I should just uninstall these bleeding edge versions and stick to tweaked `4.19.134-ryzen`
• 289[01:50:27] <sney> graphicsv: that sounds like you have the 5.8 kernel installed but not running. uninstall the package if you don't want it
• 290[01:50:52] *** Quits: v01t (~matrixirc@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 291[01:50:55] <mutante> MESSIAH: if you worry about privacy i would not use Google. But if you want Google and still encrypt you can use replaced-url
• 292[01:51:13] <graphicsv> mutante: What's wrong with Google?
• 293[01:51:22] <sney> prism, mainly
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• 297[01:52:07] <noosanon> lololol. everything graphicsv...
• 298[01:52:16] <MESSIAH> graphicsv If you are just normal user than don't worry about Google of course if you not sending illegal pictures
• 299[01:52:17] <noosanon> google is evil
• 300[01:52:19] <noosanon> lol
• 301[01:52:22] <sney> !offtopic
• 302[01:52:22] <mutante> graphicsv: MESSIAH said he does not want his mail provider to be able to read his mail but Google is a free service so basically the business model is to read all the mail
• 303[01:52:22] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 304[01:52:31] <graphicsv> I use Google and Google Photos and Google Drive, Docs, Mail so on
• 305[01:52:58] <sney> I also use a lot of google services, but it's informed usage I guess
• 306[01:53:06] <graphicsv> What'd be the alternative? I love Google Mail :'(
• 307[01:53:10] <MESSIAH> graphicsv But if you are rising business trader than you will be on aim
• 308[01:53:27] <mutante> Google will not add "Easy GPG" because then they can't read it. Hence "FlowCrypt" is done by a third party. FlowCrypt works great though.
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• 310[01:53:38] <MESSIAH> Did someone heard about last ebay action?
• 311[01:53:44] <mutante> graphicsv: protonmail for example
• 312[01:54:00] <sney> MESSIAH: that goes for you too, try to keep this conversation debian-usage related
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• 315[01:54:51] <graphicsv> sney is right. But I'd like to keep this conversation elsewhere. #debian-offtopic ?
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• 317[01:55:29] <annadane> or fastmail, given some of protonmail's general distrust
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• 319[01:55:57] <MESSIAH> graphicsv I'm in
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• 339[02:05:28] <petn-randall> graphicsv: None of these kernels seems to be from Debian. What OS are you running?
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• 341[02:06:05] <sney> petn-randall: graphicsv has been here for a while tweaking the debian kernel to support their too-new hardware. it's a custom build from debian's source using the debian config as a base
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• 343[02:06:07] <graphicsv> petn-randall: I'm running Debian. I needed to build kernel with custom flags for my Ryzen 5 3600X
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• 345[02:06:19] <graphicsv> sney: That's correct. Thanks
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• 347[02:07:06] <petn-randall> Ah, ok. Then I don't understand why you get this message. Did you hand-build 5.8.0-rc6-ryzen yourself? And maybe you're using "needrestart"?
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• 349[02:10:23] <graphicsv> petn-randall: Yes, I did. For now I just uninstalled the unused versions and the warning is gone.
• 350[02:10:57] <graphicsv> petn-randall: I'm mainly using `4.19.134` so I don't actually need the recent ones. It's incredible the speed that my computer build the Linux kernel.
• 351[02:11:15] <petn-randall> If you happen to have a newer kernel installed regularly, and you don't want to get notified about it, you can change the config of needrestart to skip that check.
• 352[02:12:53] <graphicsv> petn-randall: Interesting. Is it an APT option?
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• 359[02:19:39] <Enissay> I'd like to append a new line to a variable, this doesnt seem to work: RESULT=$(printf "${RESULT}\n") Is there any better cleaner way ?
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• 361[02:25:20] <graphicsv> Enissay: Shel script? Shouldn't RESULT="${RESULT}\n" work?
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• 380[02:38:01] <Enissay> graphicsv: Im using this to concatenate a string in a loop. It simply shows \n & \t in plain text :-/
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• 383[02:39:54] <Enissay> Darn... I was missing -e in echo xD
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• 2574[04:22:59] <gerforce> libc-2.17.so been accidently deleted. How can i recover it.Now i have booted to a livecd image.
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• 2578[04:23:29] <gerforce> Or how can i reinstall the whole glibc to recover the system?
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• 2581[04:23:46] <CrystalMath> gerforce: oops, can you chroot into the system?
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• 2586[04:24:06] <CrystalMath> if not, maybe copy the live's libc into it, then chroot, then reinstall libc6
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• 2590[04:24:21] <sney> if all you deleted was that one file, you can go to replaced-url
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• 2600[04:25:32] <sney> and yes if the live env uses the same version of libc, that .so will work too
• 2601[04:25:36] <CrystalMath> sney: and verify that it hasn't been messed with
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• 2611[04:26:44] <sney> I mean, downloading a deb over https from a debian mirror linked to from a debian.org page is verification enough *for me*, but checksums are present on those mirrors as well if you want to make sure.
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• 2616[04:28:24] <sney> (I've been warned against suggesting "just download the deb" in the past and I get it, but one has limited options for a system with no libc.)
• 2617[04:28:44] <gerforce> so i need to find the right version of libc, and put it to the right place. Then problem solved?
• 2618[04:28:55] <sney> assuming that's all you deleted, yes
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• 2621[04:30:21] <gerforce> what if I want to reinstall the glibc? what should i do?
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• 2623[04:31:23] <sney> I guess they made their decision.
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• 2629[04:32:42] <graphicsv> Hi
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• 2631[04:33:28] <dvs> sney, nope
• 2632[04:33:36] <graphicsv> Since now I've disabled most of my power management settings. I wonder if this will be a problem in my power bill?
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• 2634[04:33:49] <gerforce> Do i miss anything? I have wrongly leaved the channel.
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• 2636[04:36:14] <sney> dvs: what are you noping exactly
• 2637[04:36:33] <dvs> The decision wasn't made
• 2638[04:36:40] <sney> ah.
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• 2641[04:37:48] <sney> gerforce: if you want to reinstall the glibc, securely download and verify the libc6 package and unpack the whole thing. the paths are straightforward and there's nothing special about the permissions.
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• 2643[04:39:03] <sney> .deb packages are extracted with 'ar x filename.deb' and then the contents are in the data tarball.
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• 2648[04:41:27] <gerforce> sney:so i boot to the livecd, then mount my root patition to a directory. Chroot to that directory, download the libc6 package, the install it
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• 2650[04:42:05] <sney> chroot is optional and may not work, but yes basically
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• 2652[04:42:29] <sney> (if chroot works, and dpkg -i works afterwards, then you can dpkg -i the package rather than copying the files manually.)
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• 2655[04:45:23] <gerforce> sney: I got it. The goal was to put all files of libc package to the right place in the system. But we do it mannually instead of using package manager.
• 2656[04:45:31] <sney> yes exactly
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• 2658[04:45:57] <gerforce> all right, thanks sney
• 2659[04:46:02] <sney> np
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• 2765[08:29:13] <croepha2> So, lets say I want the binaries of a package, but I don't want them configured (ie, like I don't want setup scripts to run, or setup the service to run automatically)... Is there a way to apt install a package and have it skip configuration for a package?
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• 2812[09:59:46] <atlizz_> hey folks
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• 2814[10:00:26] <atlizz_> a question... I just woke up and watch logs from my server, and i see connections to ssh accepted publickey, all night long, every 4 minutes exactly
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• 2816[10:00:57] <atlizz_> why is that? my ssh sessions should terminate after that time... but i dont understand why is accepting my publicKey if im sleeping
• 2817[10:01:06] <atlizz_> oooh
• 2818[10:01:08] <atlizz_> i know now
• 2819[10:01:12] <atlizz_> Valentina studio
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• 2821[10:01:17] <atlizz_> i let that software open
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• 2823[10:01:29] <atlizz_> for database , tunneled by ssh
• 2824[10:01:32] <atlizz_> is that, for sure
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• 2842[10:26:16] <drprune> So, I'm using testing, and lately apt-get dist-upgrade wants to remove 708 packages. Any tips on finding the original cause of this? I suspect it is librar[y|ies] removal - but which?
• 2843[10:27:48] <drprune> and is this situation likely to improve if I way (T=?)
• 2844[10:27:54] <drprune> wait (T=?)
• 2845[10:28:21] <quadrathoch2> !testing
• 2846[10:28:21] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <bullseye>. See replaced-url
• 2847[10:28:24] <quadrathoch2> drprune ^
• 2848[10:28:54] <drprune> Yah I know. In general it has not been that bumpy...
• 2849[10:29:10] <nkuttler> !debian-next
• 2850[10:29:10] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
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• 2852[10:29:48] <drprune> OK I'll take it over there...
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• 2868[10:59:23] <Regor> hi i have huwai usb mobile wireless modem it is listed in lsusb output "" Bus 002 Device 005: ID 12d1:1446 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. HSPA modem". but network manager doesnt detect it ..how to fix it?
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• 2877[11:06:07] <Regor> i downloaded complete tarball nonfree-firmware replaced-url
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• 2879[11:08:11] <ratrace> Regor: or just apt install it?
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• 2882[11:08:35] <ratrace> Regor: if there's firmware missing, it'd be logged in dmesg, so dmesg | grep -i firmware
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• 2884[11:08:53] <Regor> ok i check
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• 2886[11:11:00] <Regor> i get this " 0.399221] pci 0000:02:00.0: [Firmware Bug]: disabling VPD access (can't determine size of non-standard VPD format)"
• 2887[11:11:47] <Regor> i actually tried few firmware related with usb wireless .. but ididnt work so i uninstalled them..
• 2888[11:12:36] <ratrace> installing firmware doesn't make sense if the kernel is not asking for it
• 2889[11:13:08] <ratrace> as for that output you have, it may or may not be related, it's same pci bus but the error message isn't referring to device 005
• 2890[11:13:20] <Regor> ys.. actually i did it first.. but after lsusb..its listed so i didnt do anything after that..
• 2891[11:14:21] <Regor> output might be related with the firmware i installed and removed..
• 2892[11:14:31] <ratrace> modems and bluetooth devices are notorious like that, no firmware missing and yet they don't work
• 2893[11:14:39] <Regor> ohh
• 2894[11:15:08] <Regor> system detects well thats its huawei modem usb...
• 2895[11:15:58] <ratrace> !pciid 12d1:1446
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• 2897[11:16:12] <ratrace> judd: pciid 12d1:1446
• 2898[11:16:44] <ratrace> huh
• 2899[11:16:56] <diogenes_> maybe dot or comma?
• 2900[11:17:11] <ratrace> ,pciid 12d1:1446
• 2901[11:17:56] <ratrace> it responded in privmsg..... meh... "[12d1:1446] is 'Unknown device' from 'PSITech' with no known kernel module in stretch or in sid. See also replaced-url
• 2902[11:17:58] <Regor> can i choose a different connection type besides "mobile broadband" so it may work ?
• 2903[11:18:56] <ratrace> yeah well judd ain't here, duh lolol
• 2904[11:19:15] <Regor> this device worked in all *buntus..though..
• 2905[11:20:02] <ratrace> Regor: try and find out what ubuntu does for it. ubuntu often adds "SAUCE" patches to the kernel for hardware enablement, patches that are specific for ubuntu and not upstreamed to the mainline kernel (thus not available to other distros)
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• 2907[11:20:43] <Regor> yeah..ubuntu puts lots of non-free blobs..
• 2908[11:22:04] <Regor> ok i check this device in friends ubuntu machine..
• 2909[11:22:55] <ratrace> Regor: lspci -vk should be useful in detecting the module name, then you can track it down and see where it comes from
• 2910[11:23:11] <Regor> ok i do it
• 2911[11:25:58] <diogenes_> Regor, have you trien contrib non-free firmware?
• 2912[11:26:12] <Regor> not yet
• 2913[11:27:31] <ratrace> if firmware were missing, the kernel would log the path to missing firmware file, and apt-file could be used to track the package. hence the dmesg | grep -i firmware
• 2914[11:27:36] <diogenes_> Regor, download a non-free live iso and try it out off a USB drive.
• 2915[11:27:43] <Regor> i have downloaded the tarball of non-free firmwares .. device is though listed in "lsusb" after plugging
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• 2918[11:29:37] <Regor> replaced-url
• 2919[11:30:01] <Regor> check this.if something ican do with it ..
• 2920[11:30:45] <Regor> though i dont think firmware is missing .. because it detects its type..
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• 2922[11:31:09] <Regor> honestly i dont know .. i just doing enough attempts ..
• 2923[11:32:44] <ratrace> hardware could be detected even without firmware
• 2924[11:33:12] <ratrace> Regor: you can download the ubuntu live USB and boot it without installing, to check and trace the module
• 2925[11:33:48] <ratrace> ... infact hardware MUST be detected without firmware, as the kernel must know which module to load and the module then requires firmware
• 2926[11:33:55] <Regor> ys..i think my friend have live usb iso so i can find out details about it ..
• 2927[11:34:48] <diogenes_> Regor, few days ago there was an user with some firmware troubles too, i suggested him for testing purpose this: replaced-url
• 2928[11:35:10] <diogenes_> and it fixed his issue.
• 2929[11:35:14] <Regor> ok ..i check that. too
• 2930[11:36:20] <ratrace> I don't think the xanmod introduces any hardware enablement. it only reconfigures and patches the mainline kernel for a lowlatency use
• 2931[11:37:01] <ratrace> anyhow installing, using and problems caused by it are not supported in #debian
• 2932[11:40:40] <Regor> ys
• 2933[11:41:45] <Regor> exactly ..i want to fix it with official debian way..
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• 3017[13:27:32] <cybrNaut> is there a functional difference between doing a package upgrade, and a package removal followed by an installation of a newer version?
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• 3019[13:28:06] <quadrathoch2> cybrNaut probably not
• 3020[13:28:25] <quadrathoch2> except you purge (that would remove any config files)
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• 3022[13:30:37] <cybrNaut> i thought config files normally stayed around. guess i'll have to back them up
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• 3024[13:32:03] <quadrathoch2> cybrNaut when you apt remove, config files stay, purge removes config files (package provided ones, not the local ones)
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• 3026[13:32:35] <cybrNaut> ok, good
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• 3071[14:28:54] <LCRERGO> What is the repo in salsa that is used for packing emacs?
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• 3075[14:34:08] <annadane> LCRERGO, i think this replaced-url
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• 3077[14:34:34] <annadane> though the description says 25.2 where emacs in buster is 26
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• 3080[14:36:23] <annadane> on the other hand this may be the main group replaced-url
• 3081[14:36:36] <annadane> probably more on point than my earlier reply
• 3082[14:37:24] <annadane> i'm not being very helpful :/
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• 3084[14:38:40] <LCRERGO> no problem, I'm a little lost because there are around 3 repos with the same name
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• 3093[14:47:07] <annadane> LCRERGO, maybe you can contact them directly debian-emacsen@lists.debian.org
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• 3096[14:52:47] <annadane> LCRERGO, the first link i gave (replaced-url
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• 3098[14:53:48] <annadane> please remind me not to answer more questions unless i know for sure what the answer is :|
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• 3101[14:56:27] <quadrathoch2> annadane just relax a little more ;) you don't need to answer every single question ;)
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• 3113[15:06:32] <epsilon> ehm, if I download replaced-url
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• 3117[15:10:47] <quadrathoch2> epsilon replaced-url
• 3118[15:11:23] <epsilon> quadrathoch2: know, already verified
• 3119[15:11:54] <quadrathoch2> so what was the question then? epsilon
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• 3143[15:43:10] <graphicsv> When I run `dpkg-reconfigure aufs-dkms` I get `Running module version sanity check. Error! Module version 4.19.17+-20190211 for aufs.ko is not newer than what is already found in kernel 4.19.134-ryzen (4.19.63+-20200622). You may override by specifying --force.` -- My custom kernel version is named as `4.19.134-ryzen` and my system kernel is named `4.19.0-9-amd64`. Not sure what to do to mitigate this?
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• 3149[15:50:20] <ratrace> graphicsv: those aren't regular debian kernels
• 3150[15:50:50] <graphicsv> ratrace: Is it possible to make it behave as if it were? I just want it to work properly as the default one
• 3151[15:51:05] <ratrace> we can't possibly know what kind of changes you did there and how to fix them
• 3152[15:51:23] <ratrace> !frankendebian
• 3153[15:51:23] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
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• 3156[15:51:56] <graphicsv> It was basically a kernel I downloaded from kernel.org + aufs and `CONFIG_RCU_NOCB_CPU=y`
• 3157[15:52:44] <graphicsv> Config inherited from `/boot/config-4.19.0-9-amd64`
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• 3162[15:54:36] <ratrace> there's a way to run dkms manually and force rebuilds, but I don't know it otoh
• 3163[15:56:17] <ratrace> graphicsv: look at the dkms manpage, build command
• 3164[15:56:55] <frunks> you could build your own deb and make it depend on your custom kernel
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• 3188[16:20:34] <badsektor> hey bros, why no pinta in repos
• 3189[16:20:37] <badsektor> ?
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• 3192[16:22:16] <annadane> probably because debian is a volunteer effort
• 3193[16:22:19] <annadane> !nmg
• 3194[16:22:19] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
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• 3197[16:29:24] <badsektor> annadane, no it was in the repos until recently, they took it out
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• 3199[16:31:13] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 3211[16:50:58] <rany> You could use the one on flathub for now...
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• 3227[17:06:32] <xlirate> My ap is in a bad state. I tried to upgrade to g++ 10, and now I am being helb back because libgcc-s1 can't use the newest version of gcc-10-base. What can I do?
• 3228[17:09:46] <frunks> upgrade libgcc-s1
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• 3232[17:15:38] <xlirate> apt install libgcc-s1: libgcc-s1 : Depends: gcc-10-base (= 10.1.0-6) but 10.1.0-5 is to be installed
• 3233[17:15:39] <xlirate> apt install gcc-10-base: libgcc-s1 : Depends: gcc-10-base (= 10.1.0-5) but 10.1.0-6 is to be installed
• 3234[17:16:25] <xlirate> dist-upgrade does little better
• 3235[17:19:18] <frunks> I would remove what I installed and reinstall from /var/cache/apt/archives
• 3236[17:19:25] *** Quits: pmy (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3237[17:19:34] <frunks> and start over
• 3238[17:20:17] *** Joins: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip)
• 3239[17:20:40] <frunks> assuming something went wrong during an upgrade
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• 3247[17:27:04] <annadane> i might be wrong but if you're trying to install something that depends on gcc 10, which isn't even in debian stable, does that not mean you're in danger of breaking the system?
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• 3250[17:28:20] <frunks> breaking libc breaks the system
• 3251[17:28:22] *** Joins: erle- (~stephan@replaced-ip)
• 3252[17:28:36] <xlirate> It still boots
• 3253[17:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1127
• 3254[17:29:25] <xlirate> I looked through my bash_history, none of the packages that I tried to install last night actually installed, I don't have anything to remove
• 3255[17:31:02] *** Joins: sklei4 (~sklei4@replaced-ip)
• 3256[17:31:04] <frunks> what does apt-get install -f show?
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• 3258[17:31:34] <xlirate> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 25 not upgraded.
• 3259[17:32:27] <xlirate> What is the pastbin of choice? I can drop in my list --upgradable
• 3260[17:33:40] <xlirate> replaced-url
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• 3262[17:34:07] <frunks> are you running debian stable?
• 3263[17:35:51] <xlirate> In my sources list, I have buster, buster/updates bullseye, bullseye-security, stretch, and sid
• 3264[17:37:04] <frunks> remove all except buster, buster/updates
• 3265[17:37:23] <frunks> you can only have one
• 3266[17:37:45] <frunks> then apt-get update
• 3267[17:37:53] <xlirate> If I have things installed from sid, that are only in sid, will removing it breake my system?
• 3268[17:38:29] <frunks> you should not install packages from unstable on stable
• 3269[17:38:50] *** Joins: palimaar (oasd@replaced-ip)
• 3270[17:39:12] <frunks> they should be removed or the whole system upgraded to unstable
• 3271[17:39:29] <xlirate> ok. How do I upgrade my entire system to unstable?
• 3272[17:40:18] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3273[17:40:43] <xlirate> This is my sources right now replaced-url
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• 3275[17:41:51] <quadrathoch2> xlirate remove everything except the last 2 (sid) and then 'sudo apt update' 'sudo apt full-upgrade'
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• 3278[17:46:57] <xlirate> inkscape updated, nothing else though, replaced-url
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• 3282[17:48:17] <quadrathoch2> you still have even more repositories configured. you would need to remove them xlirate
• 3283[17:48:42] <xlirate> Where are they configured? I do not see them in me sources
• 3284[17:49:00] <quadrathoch2> probably in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ xlirate
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• 3290[17:53:25] <xlirate> Still no dice replaced-url
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• 3296[17:57:13] <frunks> does apt full-upgrade also run apt-get dist-upgrade?
• 3297[17:57:28] <xlirate> Same with full-upgrade and dist-upgrade
• 3298[17:57:44] <xlirate> still no luck
• 3299[17:58:22] <quadrathoch2> frunks full-upgrade should replace dist-upgrade at some point afaik, as it is more descriptive than dist (as you don't upgrade your distribution)
• 3300[17:58:23] *** Quits: rebrec (~rebrec@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3301[17:58:55] <quadrathoch2> I guess there is still something installed that interferes with the upgrade :/
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• 3303[18:00:22] <annadane> are you trying to mix sid packages with stable?
• 3304[18:00:45] <quadrathoch2> he did, and now wants to upgrade to sid
• 3305[18:00:46] *** Quits: marcello1 (~marcello1@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3306[18:01:41] <xlirate> I was. I started with stable about 9 months ago, added unstable to my sources about 4 months ago, and added sid about 1 month ago. I just removed everything but sid, but it still dosn't seem to want to upgrade
• 3307[18:02:37] *** Joins: yonder (~yonder@replaced-ip)
• 3308[18:02:48] <frunks> dpkg --list |grep gcc
• 3309[18:02:48] <dpkg> no idea, frunks
• 3310[18:02:58] <xlirate> This started when I wanted to get my g++ up to version 10, but all of my install attempts failed. Nothing that I apt installed stuck
• 3311[18:03:21] *** Quits: bochku (~aditya@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.8)
• 3312[18:03:36] <xlirate> replaced-url
• 3313[18:04:06] <xlirate> why would I have libgcc-s1:i386 ?
• 3314[18:04:25] <xlirate> is there a way to list the things that depend on something?
• 3315[18:04:52] *** Joins: bochku (~aditya@replaced-ip)
• 3316[18:04:53] <frunks> apt-cache depends gcc
• 3317[18:06:21] *** Quits: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3318[18:06:24] <xlirate> I am going to try removing the 32bit gcc
• 3319[18:06:33] <frunks> try running apt-get autoremove
• 3320[18:06:47] <xlirate> there was nothing to remove
• 3321[18:07:19] <quadrathoch2> i guess there are a lot of packages from stable/testing that interfere with the removal :/
• 3322[18:07:28] <xlirate> oh, some of these things that are getting removed with gcc-10-base:i386 look like I made a mistake
• 3323[18:08:40] *** Quits: PoaB (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: PoaB)
• 3324[18:09:02] <xlirate> If I had both stable and sid in my sources, and everything that I has from stable was also on sid, and I ran dist-upgrade after adding sid, wouldn't I already be on sid?
• 3325[18:10:05] <quadrathoch2> it should, but I guess you had a lot of repos in there, so we can't be sure
• 3326[18:10:06] <frunks> you are on sid, but you're also on buster, bullseye, stretch, etc
• 3327[18:10:39] <xlirate> removing my other sources didn't fix the issue, unfortunetly
• 3328[18:10:51] *** Quits: bochku (~aditya@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 3329[18:11:29] *** Joins: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip)
• 3330[18:12:04] <quadrathoch2> I guess the install is beyond timely repair :/
• 3331[18:12:33] *** Joins: bochku (~aditya@replaced-ip)
• 3332[18:13:51] <quadrathoch2> and even if it is fixable, there is no way to guarantee that it won't mess up again at some point
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• 3335[18:16:53] <xlirate> Right now apt is basically removing all of my i386 packages. Debian doesn't need any i386 packages to boot, right?
• 3336[18:17:10] <xlirate> This is an amd64 install
• 3337[18:17:11] *** Joins: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip)
• 3338[18:17:21] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3339[18:17:34] <quadrathoch2> no it doesn't you had it probably because of steam
• 3340[18:17:37] <quadrathoch2> and lutris
• 3341[18:17:44] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip)
• 3342[18:17:50] <xlirate> probably
• 3343[18:18:19] <xlirate> I can put those back later, if I need to. I would rather have an apt that works then be able to play some games
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• 3347[18:19:14] <quadrathoch2> xlirate you should probably remove most of the stuff you installed so you can make sure that there shouldn't be issues with removing older gcc versions
• 3348[18:20:14] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip)
• 3349[18:20:56] <xlirate> What do you mean by remove most of what I have installed?
• 3350[18:21:26] <quadrathoch2> try to figure out which stuff is still installed from buster/stable or even testing/bullseye
• 3351[18:21:41] <xlirate> ok
• 3352[18:22:18] <frunks> it may be easier to re-install without formatting
• 3353[18:22:24] <xlirate> the remove finished and now full-upgrade is updating most of the 18 packages that were left. I will see what is straggling in a bit
• 3354[18:23:02] <xlirate> libopenmpi-dev libopenmpi3 are the only 2 left
• 3355[18:23:15] <frunks> just keeping the home directory
• 3356[18:23:27] <quadrathoch2> btw I still ask myself why somebody would 'install' a repository for steam (as it is in the debian repos)
• 3357[18:23:49] <epictetus2> quadrathoch2: faster updates?
• 3358[18:23:49] <xlirate> the one in the debian repos didn't open
• 3359[18:23:55] <xlirate> The one on the steam repos did
• 3360[18:24:10] <quadrathoch2> epictetus2 which are through steam and not the repos?
• 3361[18:24:20] <quadrathoch2> xlirate weird, never had issues :/
• 3362[18:24:52] <epictetus2> quadrathoch2: the steam repo is probably faster with upgrades im guessing
• 3363[18:25:06] <quadrathoch2> upgrades of what? epictetus2
• 3364[18:25:16] <epictetus2> packages
• 3365[18:25:48] <quadrathoch2> i wouldn't know which one but meh whatever
• 3366[18:26:02] <xlirate> libucx0 : Depends: libbinutils (< 2.34.90.20200707)
• 3367[18:26:14] <quadrathoch2> as most of the stuff steam needs is packaged with steam
• 3368[18:26:23] <xlirate> Is there a way to check what I have that depends on a given package?
• 3369[18:26:34] *** Quits: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3370[18:26:47] <epictetus2> quadrathoch2: when steam creates a new release they put it in their repo before the debian packagers had time to create a .deb package
• 3371[18:27:02] <quadrathoch2> you can do that with aptitude why <package> but you would need to install aptitude
• 3372[18:27:45] *** Joins: palimaar (oasd@replaced-ip)
• 3373[18:27:55] <quadrathoch2> idk not too much about steam, as most of the time I don't use it, but when I do, it works. so shouldn't seem to matter if outside packages (outside of steam) are not updated epictetus2
• 3374[18:28:01] <frunks> apt-get depends libucx0
• 3375[18:28:01] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip)
• 3376[18:28:06] <xlirate> Is there a compelling reason why I should want to not install aptitude?
• 3377[18:28:10] <frunks> apt-cache depends libucx0
• 3378[18:28:12] <frunks> *
• 3379[18:28:51] <xlirate> frunks, doesn't that tell me what libucx0 depends on?
• 3380[18:28:57] *** Joins: programmer892264 (~programme@replaced-ip)
• 3381[18:29:01] *** Joins: st-gourichon-fid (~Stephane@replaced-ip)
• 3382[18:29:04] <frunks> yes
• 3383[18:29:25] <xlirate> I want the other way around
• 3384[18:29:36] <xlirate> I want to know what needs libucx0
• 3385[18:29:50] <quadrathoch2> epictetus2 I don't want to "fight" with you, here is the content of the repo ;) replaced-url
• 3386[18:29:50] *** Joins: huwjr (~huwjr@replaced-ip)
• 3387[18:29:58] <xlirate> aptitude tells me that libboost-system-dev needs it
• 3388[18:29:59] *** Quits: huwjr (~huwjr@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3389[18:30:12] <xlirate> so I guess it stays
• 3390[18:30:36] <xlirate> Thank you guys for all the help
• 3391[18:30:36] <epictetus2> quadrathoch2: sure. Do you see any advantages at all to third party repos?
• 3392[18:31:04] <quadrathoch2> yeah, but they have to be justified. for example winehq could be a good example
• 3393[18:31:18] <xlirate> I see them as just a bit more convenient than automating git pull; make install
• 3394[18:32:37] *** Quits: palimaar (oasd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3395[18:32:44] <quadrathoch2> you are right, imho there should still be a thought why you install something (too old of a version for example (wine), or because it's not in the repos (lutris). or for example steam, which is in the repos, and there is literally no need for the steam repo)
• 3396[18:33:01] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 3399[18:35:11] <epictetus2> quadrathoch2: I guess you are right. if they dont update the package very often
• 3400[18:36:41] <quadrathoch2> xlirate and btw, I guess, that there is something wrong with your install, and that's why steam won't work. but I guess nobody knows how to fix it except you would look into it (steam related)
• 3401[18:37:11] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
• 3402[18:37:13] <quadrathoch2> epictetus2 yeah, I guess they only update it if there is a really big need because dependencys change
• 3403[18:37:37] <quadrathoch2> but as that package is just a wrapper *shrug*
• 3404[18:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1134
• 3405[18:40:34] <xlirate> steam very doesn't work right now, replaced-url
• 3406[18:40:40] *** Quits: DJDan_ (~DJDan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3407[18:40:41] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
• 3408[18:41:03] <quadrathoch2> as I said, you would need to fix your install, or just reinstall xlirate
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• 3411[18:42:57] <bewees> hi where does this script get the old and new ipv6 address from? replaced-url
• 3412[18:43:09] *** Quits: mork (~mork@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 3413[18:43:14] <xlirate> It looks like libgcc-s1:i386 needs an older specific version of gcc-10-base:i386. I will try again in a few days, and if it still doesn't work then I will reinstall
• 3414[18:44:11] *** Quits: erle- (~stephan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3415[18:44:56] <frunks> xlirate: you should skip to reinstall
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• 3418[18:45:36] <xlirate> I need to give a zoom presentation in 20m, I am not starting a reinstall just yet
• 3419[18:46:02] <quadrathoch2> do it afterwards, as it seems that install is beyond repair
• 3420[18:46:11] *** Quits: bochku (~aditya@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3421[18:46:13] <quadrathoch2> hopefully zoom still works
• 3422[18:46:41] <xlirate> It does, chromium still launches and I do all of my zooming within the browser
• 3423[18:46:53] <xlirate> trying to keep it's fingers at bay
• 3424[18:47:06] <frunks> you can ctrl+alt+f2 during the installer, mount and remove all directories except 'home'
• 3425[18:47:29] *** Joins: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip)
• 3426[18:47:35] <frunks> and select not to format during partitioning
• 3427[18:47:44] <obiwahn> Hi, I used to create deb from vanilla kernel sources but that is long ago. Can you point me to an up to date tutorial?
• 3428[18:47:49] <xlirate> When I want to start the reinstall process I will have a second computer with this irc open
• 3429[18:48:23] <quadrathoch2> imho, you are the perfect candidate for btrfs+snapper
• 3430[18:48:30] *** Joins: bochku (~aditya@replaced-ip)
• 3431[18:48:33] <xlirate> I am?
• 3432[18:49:01] <xlirate> my last btrfs install ran out of root partition in only 9 days, dispite having 200gb to work with
• 3433[18:49:22] <xlirate> I may be a developer, but I am too much of a linux noob to be comfertable maintaining something like that
• 3434[18:49:45] *** Quits: SirLagz (~SirLagz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3435[18:49:56] <annadane> i feel like apt should be like "YOU'RE TRYING TO MIX PACKAGES ARE YOU REALLY SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS YOU MORON"
• 3436[18:50:01] <quadrathoch2> xlirate then you should ask yourself if testing/sid is the right distribution. as stuff will break
• 3437[18:50:08] <annadane> [y/N]
• 3438[18:50:25] *** Quits: StathisA (~StathisA@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3439[18:50:33] <quadrathoch2> there are better distributions for keeping up with newer technology
• 3440[18:50:47] <xlirate> When things break, I am mostly able to fix them. This is the first time I have needed to come to the irc for help
• 3441[18:51:02] <xlirate> I am on debian because my servers are all on debian
• 3442[18:51:23] <quadrathoch2> xlirate kk, just wanted to give out a warning. but then you probably should stay within reason to add third party repos
• 3443[18:51:37] *** Quits: silverwhitefish (~hidden@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 3444[18:51:38] <xlirate> Thank you for you wisdom
• 3445[18:51:47] *** Quits: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3446[18:52:05] *** Joins: silverwhitefish (~hidden@replaced-ip)
• 3447[18:52:08] <xlirate> I will keep that in mind and not play kitchen sink with my repos on my next go around
• 3448[18:52:41] *** Joins: ndegruchy (~ndegruchy@replaced-ip)
• 3449[18:53:36] <quadrathoch2> xlirate or rather ask earlier if something doesn't work (for example steam). If you stay on sid, you should probably switch next time to the #debian-next on the OFTC network, as people there can help you even better with the 'testing' stuff
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• 3452[18:54:21] <xlirate> tbf, steam didn't work when I was on stable ether
• 3453[18:55:02] *** Quits: Kruppt (~Kruppt@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3454[18:55:45] <annadane> full sid is still better than stable + sid
• 3455[18:55:51] <xlirate> yes
• 3456[18:56:15] <xlirate> Is it safe to have something like sib+sid-backports
• 3457[18:56:56] *** Joins: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip)
• 3458[18:57:18] <annadane> there aren't any sid-backports
• 3459[18:57:27] <annadane> backports are taken from testing
• 3460[18:57:50] <xlirate> Then, is sid+testing safe?
• 3461[18:57:56] <quadrathoch2> xlirate theoretically you could use experimental as "backports"
• 3462[18:58:05] <quadrathoch2> which is even newer than sid
• 3463[18:58:22] <annadane> that's not necessarily recommended
• 3464[18:58:25] <xlirate> that sounds odd
• 3465[18:58:26] <quadrathoch2> xlirate other way around is seen as 'okay', so testing base + sid packages
• 3466[18:58:38] <eigenfire> Using experimental is generally considered ill advised.
• 3467[18:58:39] <annadane> anyway, yes, mixing testing + sid is doable if you understand package dependencies
• 3468[18:58:52] <annadane> (in moderation)
• 3469[18:58:59] <quadrathoch2> the difference is like 5-10 days xlirate
• 3470[18:59:53] <xlirate> The main reasion that I wanted to leave older repos is that sometimes I will need a package that is no longer in buster, but is in jessie for instance
• 3471[19:00:25] <quadrathoch2> xlirate vms or containers are for that
• 3472[19:00:26] <xlirate> and I 'need' it because it is a dependency of a library that my research lab is using
• 3473[19:02:14] <quadrathoch2> just install a jessie vm or container, and use it that way
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• 3537[20:02:59] <quadrathoch2> !nmp
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• 3550[20:10:50] <CarlFK> "Intel Corporation HD Graphics 530" ... I'm trying to figure out if I can send audio to it. how do I list available audio devices?
• 3551[20:11:18] <frunks> aplay -l
• 3552[20:11:23] <sponix> CarlFK: install and use pavucontrol "Pulse Audio Volume Control"
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• 3555[20:12:18] <CarlFK> "card 0: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]" that is encouraging.
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• 3569[20:34:19] <lenswipe> Hey folks. I'm having a problem with my sound. It was working fine, then I installed audacity and without me changing anything it now doesn't
• 3570[20:34:49] *** Parts: nickodd (~nickodd@replaced-ip) ()
• 3571[20:34:55] <lenswipe> If any application tries to play audio, i hear a soft pop in my headphones and then silence.
• 3572[20:34:57] *** Joins: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip)
• 3573[20:35:00] <lenswipe> This ONLY affects headphones. The speakers work fine
• 3574[20:35:06] <lenswipe> and I have no audio until i reboot
• 3575[20:35:13] <lenswipe> again, this only started when I installed audacity
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• 3578[20:36:24] <sney> look at your apt log and see what audacity brought with it as dependencies. there may be jackd or something else that is messing with audio multiplexing.
• 3579[20:36:59] <sney> audacity itself will not do anything to your sound devices unless it is currently recording or playing back.
• 3580[20:37:30] <lenswipe> sney, i forgot to mention, ive uninstalled audacity and the problem is still there
• 3581[20:37:39] <lenswipe> whatever got broken is still broken
• 3582[20:38:17] <sney> same advice
• 3583[20:38:20] <lenswipe> when i first launched audacity, i heard the same soft pop (the sound you get when you plug a pair of headphones in)
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• 3586[20:38:24] <lenswipe> and then the sound stopped working
• 3587[20:38:30] <lenswipe> how do i look at my apt log?
• 3588[20:38:41] *** Joins: CombatVet (~c4@replaced-ip)
• 3589[20:38:46] <lenswipe> I just ran `sudo apt show audacity` and it has a bunch of things listed under "depends"
• 3590[20:38:50] <lenswipe> are those the dependencies of audacity?
• 3591[20:40:39] <lenswipe> apparently audacity depends on: audacity-data, libasound2, libavcodec58, libavcodec-extra58, libavformat58, libavutil56, libc6, libexpat1, libflac++6v5, libflac8, libgcc1, libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0, libglib2.0-0, libgtk2.0-0, libid3tag0, liblilv-0-0, libmad0, libmp3lame0, libogg0, libportaudio2, libportsmf0, libsndfile1, libsoundtouch1, libsoxr0, libstdc++6, libsuil-0-0, libtwolame0, libvamp-hostsdk3v5, libvorbis0a, libvorbisenc2, libvorbisfile3,
• 3592[20:40:39] <lenswipe> libwxbase3.0-0v5, libwxgtk3.0-0v5,
• 3593[20:40:44] <sney> yes, along with the Reccommends. But I told you to look at the apt *log* because some of those deps/recs were probably already on your system, and we're trying to find out what *changed*.
• 3594[20:40:55] <lenswipe> so where do i find the apt log?
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• 3596[20:41:14] <lenswipe> oh right, just /var/log/apt
• 3597[20:41:19] <lenswipe> i was thinking it was something in journalctl
• 3598[20:41:56] *** Quits: renzhi (~renzhi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3599[20:42:14] <lenswipe> sney, replaced-url
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• 3601[20:42:40] <usr1987> Hi Everyone, just a user here, but tried to install Deb 10 with UEFI and grub was properly set, but pc does not boot. Reinstalled in legacy and it all worker, why it can't find a boot in UEFI? is this an issue, I did google!
• 3602[20:42:44] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 3603[20:43:02] <lenswipe> usr1987, define "does not boot"
• 3604[20:43:17] <usr1987> @lenswipe can't find boot device
• 3605[20:43:20] <sney> lenswipe: I suspect libportaudio2.
• 3606[20:43:57] *** Joins: ZeroSploit (~ZeroSploi@replaced-ip)
• 3607[20:44:21] <sney> usr1987: don't @ on irc, many clients ignore that style of highlights. also, does your device have any bios/efi updates available? sometimes efi has issues with non-windows from the factory, but it's usually fixed by the vendor
• 3608[20:44:39] *** Joins: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip)
• 3609[20:44:41] <ZeroSploit> where can i get help with a python script i made
• 3610[20:44:50] <sney> have you tried #python
• 3611[20:45:03] <ZeroSploit> lol makes alot a sence
• 3612[20:45:14] <usr1987> yeah... its fully updated, its a dell lat 7450... other distros boot just fine
• 3613[20:45:17] <ZeroSploit> thanks
• 3614[20:45:53] <lenswipe> sney, go on...
• 3615[20:46:14] <mason> usr1987: Boot rescue media (e.g., a livecd) and collect efibootmgr output, and maybe list the contents of your EFI System Partition.
• 3616[20:46:25] *** Joins: aindilis (~aindilis@replaced-ip)
• 3617[20:46:43] <sney> lenswipe: the name looked relevant so I looked at it with 'apt show' and the description sounds like something that could mess with audio output.
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• 3619[20:47:09] <lenswipe> well i just uninstalled it
• 3620[20:47:12] <lenswipe> let's see what happens now
• 3621[20:47:26] <sney> lenswipe: but you have the list of what was installed by audacity and what wasn't removed when you removed audacity, so it's going to be one of those.
• 3622[20:47:52] <lenswipe> sney, right, the only question is if it's their presence that's breaking things - or something that they chantged
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• 3625[20:48:44] <sney> in either case, removing the package should also (by debian policy) undo any config changes, or at least prompt you to make that decision yourself
• 3626[20:48:56] <sney> you may also need to reboot and/or restart pulseaudio in between tests
• 3627[20:48:57] <usr1987> I may add, I am using the firmware dvd written on the usb with rufus... is there a negative impact using legacy boot vs uefi? I can use legacy
• 3628[20:49:33] <sney> usr1987: rufus is known to break the debian installer sometimes in unpredictable ways, unless you use the 'dd mode'.
• 3629[20:49:42] <sney> !win32diskimager
• 3630[20:49:42] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from replaced-url
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• 3632[20:50:53] <usr1987> sney: i will try a iso to DVD boot and see if thats the issue. I really don't want to tinker much with the issue, unless is legacy is not worth using
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• 3635[20:51:56] <sney> usr1987: IME it doesn't make much difference, but using legacy may make some efi features unavailable, and I think there may be some issues with >4TB disks. but my primary desktop and laptop are both installed in legacy mode with no complaints here.
• 3636[20:52:15] <mason> usr1987: Boot rescue media (e.g., a livecd) and collect efibootmgr output, and maybe list the contents of your EFI System Partition.
• 3637[20:52:18] *** Quits: polyphem (~p0lyph3m@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 3638[20:52:43] <mason> Or, we can all play a guessing game! I guess "red" on my turn.
• 3639[20:53:51] <usr1987> sney... only got a 256 mvne drive, and 16gb, so I think I am ok... Thank you! Mason I may try that at a future date.
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• 3644[20:55:08] <rander2> hello
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• 3646[20:55:28] <rander2> to add a path in bash , must I modify .profile ?
• 3647[20:55:43] *** Quits: ZeroSploit (~ZeroSploi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3648[20:55:50] <mason> rander2: or .bashrc or .shrc or something of the sort.
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• 3651[20:56:49] <mason> rander2: You can say PATH="$PATH:/my/new/path" ; export PATH to add to what you've already got.
• 3652[20:57:05] *** Joins: ZeroSploit (~ZeroSploi@replaced-ip)
• 3653[20:57:49] <ZeroSploit> help with my python script there was no help at #python and the guy was very rude
• 3654[20:58:08] <nkuttler> well, you spammed that channel. use a pastebin
• 3655[20:58:26] <sney> ZeroSploit: sorry, that's not how it works. maybe you should just refer back to your textbook instead.
• 3656[20:59:33] <RoyK> mason: or just "export PATH="$PATH:/somewhere"
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• 3659[20:59:54] <mason> RoyK: Sure, but that's just Bash. I'd rather teach people portable ways to do the same thing.
• 3660[21:00:07] <nkuttler> ZeroSploit: just join the python channel again, and use the pastebin in the topic this time
• 3661[21:00:11] *** Joins: TripleDES (~sjr@replaced-ip)
• 3662[21:00:12] <RoyK> well, if it's in .bashrc, it won't be much of a problem ;)
• 3663[21:00:36] <mason> RoyK: And as soon as he wants to do it for Dash, he wonders why it breaks and has to come back and ask again.
• 3664[21:00:42] *** Parts: ZeroSploit (~ZeroSploi@replaced-ip) ()
• 3665[21:00:53] <RoyK> mason: sure, but I'm not sure why people use dash
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• 3667[21:01:00] * sney mutters something about obvious newbies with "hacker" nicks
• 3668[21:01:18] <nkuttler> you've got to have goals
• 3669[21:01:24] <sney> lol
• 3670[21:01:31] <mason> RoyK: Hah, and for kicks, it turns out that Dash actually supports it. So... s/Dash/KSH/ maybe?
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• 3672[21:02:25] <RoyK> mason: stick to bsh if the punched cards won't work ;)
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• 3675[21:03:27] <f8e4> how to print all file contents in a dir?
• 3676[21:03:36] <f8e4> find . -type f -exec cat -;
• 3677[21:04:03] <RoyK> find /somedir -type f -exec cat {} \;
• 3678[21:04:05] <RoyK> perhaps
• 3679[21:04:07] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3680[21:04:21] <f8e4> or find . -name '*' -exec cat {} + ?
• 3681[21:04:41] <nkuttler> f8e4: cat * ?
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• 3683[21:04:47] <RoyK> nkuttler++
• 3684[21:04:50] <oxek> How can I rename a command, such as 'man' to 'docs', in such a way that it applies to all users of the system, including newly created ones, and does not break anything in directories managed by apt, such as in /usr?
• 3685[21:04:55] <mason> cat .??* * you're missing dot files
• 3686[21:05:24] <RoyK> oxek: generally, you don't. you learn the commands as they are
• 3687[21:05:35] <sney> oxek: symlinks or aliases, but the 'man' binary should stay in place so as not to break anything
• 3688[21:05:38] <nkuttler> mason: that still misses some
• 3689[21:05:39] <oxek> RoyK: this comes from above, I have to rename the command
• 3690[21:05:52] <RoyK> oxek: why?
• 3691[21:05:57] <mason> Misses anything with a space, as an example.
• 3692[21:06:15] <RoyK> alias docs=man
• 3693[21:06:22] <oxek> RoyK: please don't ask why, I don't want to create a weird discussion here
• 3694[21:06:23] <nkuttler> mason: or . plus one char
• 3695[21:06:27] <RoyK> but still, why on earth would you rename it?
• 3696[21:06:34] <sney> oxek: the file /usr/bin/man is owned by the debian package 'man-db', so messing with it will break that package, which violates your last requirement.
• 3697[21:06:37] <RoyK> someone finding it sexish or something?
• 3698[21:06:41] <oxek> the man command will of course stay in the canonical path in /usr/bin
• 3699[21:06:56] *** Joins: huwjr (~huwjr@replaced-ip)
• 3700[21:07:01] <sney> ln -s /usr/bin/man /usr/local/bin/docs
• 3701[21:07:17] <mason> nkuttler: The issue is .?* catches .. as well.
• 3702[21:07:17] <nkuttler> i usually do .[a-zA-Z], but i obviously check the files
• 3703[21:07:24] <RoyK> sney: better use an alias in /etc/bash.bashrc or something
• 3704[21:07:25] <oxek> sney: yeah, that's smart, that should do it, thanks
• 3705[21:07:30] <mason> nkuttler: That misses .1
• 3706[21:07:36] <nkuttler> obviously
• 3707[21:07:54] *** Quits: huwjr (~huwjr@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3708[21:08:05] <sney> RoyK: the symlink is easier to reverse engineer a year from now when you've forgotten how it was implemented
• 3709[21:08:06] <RoyK> oxek: the discussion is weird already ;)
• 3710[21:08:09] <oxek> RoyK: that would miss out on cases where the user might use fish, zsh, sh, etc.
• 3711[21:08:12] <mason> .??* is less typing
• 3712[21:08:45] <nkuttler> f8e4: lots of options
• 3713[21:09:00] *** Joins: hogarius (hogarius@replaced-ip)
• 3714[21:09:11] <RoyK> oxek: could you please answer why you want to rename a command that has been the same for 30+ years?
• 3715[21:09:13] *** Quits: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3716[21:09:21] <oxek> do I understand it correctly then that /usr/local/bin is not under control of the package manager, i.e. apt will not mess with things in there?
• 3717[21:09:26] <sney> oxek: yes.
• 3718[21:09:34] <EdePopede> sounds to me more like "i have to" than "i want to"
• 3719[21:09:50] <oxek> RoyK: I don't want to do it, but I've been asked to provide an option so that users can run 'docs' to get the functionality of 'man'
• 3720[21:10:04] <EdePopede> oxek: /usr/local is under discretion of the sysadmin
• 3721[21:10:21] <sney> RoyK: yeah, it sounds like some nontechnial executive meddling. sucks, but re-educating oxek's boss is outside the scope of #debian
• 3722[21:10:28] <RoyK> oxek: and 'dir' instead of 'ls' and 'md' instead of 'mkdir' etc?
• 3723[21:10:40] <RoyK> btw, dir is there already, last I checked
• 3724[21:10:45] <nkuttler> did somebody mention creating a symlink yet?
• 3725[21:10:52] <nkuttler> ah, yes..
• 3726[21:11:02] <oxek> RoyK: nope, I've not been asked to rename those ones.
• 3727[21:11:17] *** Joins: kreyren (~kreyren@replaced-ip)
• 3728[21:11:21] *** Joins: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip)
• 3729[21:11:22] <oxek> anyway, thanks very much for pointing me to /usr/local/bin
• 3730[21:11:27] <sney> np
• 3731[21:11:36] <RoyK> oxek: I just wonder what sort of idiot orders you to fix a working system
• 3732[21:12:02] <sney> spoken like someone who's never worked corporate ^^
• 3733[21:12:10] <f8e4> do you guys trust brother printer driver?
• 3734[21:12:21] <EdePopede> i've read some time ago that there once was a distro (or some unix probably even earlier) in germany where they TRANSLATED all the commands.
• 3735[21:12:34] <f8e4> i am looking at "CUPS wrapper Printer driver Source Codes" but dont know hwere to put all the files?
• 3736[21:12:43] <mason> EdePopede: That must have made shell scripts fun.
• 3737[21:12:49] <RoyK> sney: nah - corporate users rarely use the commandline
• 3738[21:12:52] <sney> f8e4: I don't "trust" any black box proprietary stuff, but the brother driver is generally known to support printers
• 3739[21:13:03] <EdePopede> mason: or they kept around symlinks for the commands in the scripts :>
• 3740[21:13:45] <sney> f8e4: if they gave you a source package, it probably has instructions. but you may want to check your cups configuration before dealing with that, as some models are supported out of the box via postscript
• 3741[21:13:46] <f8e4> sney it is not shown in strg+P dialog, so i downloaded the cups wrapper source: PPD, cupswrapper and brcupsconfig dirs; where to put them?
• 3742[21:13:57] <EdePopede> may have been around the time when sysadmins were told by their bosses to use this lunix things for the email box they've heard of :D
• 3743[21:14:14] <oxek> RoyK: this is for a school system where our company helps out as a matter of good-will, and we've been asked by the school to do this
• 3744[21:14:23] <f8e4> sney is cups on by default? i dont like switching printer server stuff on
• 3745[21:14:28] <oxek> we recently donated ~50 laptops to them running debian
• 3746[21:14:37] *** Joins: usr1987 (~USR1987@replaced-ip)
• 3747[21:14:46] <sney> f8e4: if it's installed it's running. open replaced-url
• 3748[21:14:55] <EdePopede> "schools" system? one of the goals of schools is to teach people to do things THE RIGHT WAY
• 3749[21:15:13] <sney> unfortunately the contract sysadmins don't have any say in the curriculum
• 3750[21:15:25] *** Quits: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3751[21:15:45] *** Joins: Ceber (~cerberus@replaced-ip)
• 3752[21:15:54] <EdePopede> oxek: regular schools? with kids and teens and such?
• 3753[21:16:08] <RoyK> oxek: which doesn't make sense, since the point of a school is to teach you things, like linux/unix commands
• 3754[21:16:10] <oxek> EdePopede: yeah, regular school with kids.
• 3755[21:16:28] <sney> also, lots of things are learned wrong in school, if only due to progress and changing attitudes etc... most students eventually learn critical thinking as well, which provides the tools to resolve that
• 3756[21:16:38] <EdePopede> oxek: then it's a waste of ressources. better donate the machines to schools doing their job
• 3757[21:17:01] <oxek> RoyK: I agree with you, personally I don't want to do this, but I have to
• 3758[21:17:07] <EdePopede> they'll release people with no clue how to use a linux system if they do some more of this crap.
• 3759[21:17:45] <sney> if some kid joins #debian in the next couple years asking "where is the docs command" then we'll know who to blame. >:D
• 3760[21:17:48] <RoyK> oxek: then talk to the teacher and tell him/her that this is really counterproductive. they'll learn something that only works on that system
• 3761[21:17:50] <EdePopede> heh
• 3762[21:18:05] *** Quits: usr1987 (~USR1987@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3763[21:18:38] *** Quits: ax562 (aec293db@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3764[21:18:56] <RoyK> sounds like someone that doesn't know linux at all found the 'man' command sexish or something :þ
• 3765[21:18:56] <sney> if this were my problem, I'd probably make /usr/local/bin/docs a shell script that outputs "most unix systems will only have the 'man' command, this 'docs' alias is provided for your convenience" then sleep for a second before calling up the manpage
• 3766[21:19:09] <oxek> RoyK: not my place to have this discussion. At least the kids are learning how to use the system, and that there's "help COMMAND", "info COMMAND", "COMMAND --help" and now 'better named' command "docs COMMAND".
• 3767[21:19:17] <EdePopede> i'm surprised that such teachers are still around in 2020. was ok in the 80s when they didn't have proper preparation themselves, but now it's just a desaster.
• 3768[21:19:41] <oxek> sney: that's a great idea!
• 3769[21:19:47] <EdePopede> oxek: tell them about woman(1) ;)
• 3770[21:19:49] <RoyK> oxek: I give in - rename all the commands to politicaly correct ones and try to get it though
• 3771[21:20:07] <EdePopede> it's to man what less is to more (or even most) or pinfo to info
• 3772[21:20:22] <oxek> RoyK: I did not say it is for any politically correct reasons, I simply have to do this
• 3773[21:20:53] <RoyK> reminds me of replaced-url
• 3774[21:20:59] <EdePopede> yeah
• 3775[21:21:49] *** Joins: blb4393 (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
• 3776[21:22:29] <oxek> EdePopede: we've been helping out this school for years, and don't want to punish the kids for any such decisions made by the school administration
• 3777[21:22:31] *** Joins: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip)
• 3778[21:23:06] <oxek> we don't get any tax relief or anything like that for it, it's just something our company has been doing since it was founded
• 3779[21:23:23] <f8e4> sney: would you rather put wifi printer onto router or install their driver for usb?
• 3780[21:23:24] <RoyK> oxek: then tell the kids how to make an alias docs="man" so at least they'll learn something
• 3781[21:23:34] <EdePopede> oxek: good thing. the idea with the nagscript would push them into the right direction i think. even on a meta level, showing them that they shouldn't rely too much on what they're told.
• 3782[21:24:09] <sney> f8e4: I would (and do) just use my printer on the network.
• 3783[21:24:11] *** Parts: hogarius (hogarius@replaced-ip) ()
• 3784[21:24:32] <oxek> RoyK: it's a hard decision on what we can and cannot tell the kids. They are happy with our picture based documentation on how to use the systems, etc. but if we were to be 'educating' the kids then we'd be crossing the line
• 3785[21:24:32] <EdePopede> oxek: or if you have the time and are willing to maybe some specific docs(sic!) to that system. so they know what they are confronted with.
• 3786[21:24:41] <f8e4> sney me scared some chinese guy comes in, or printer pings outwards (no idea)
• 3787[21:25:03] <f8e4> f8e4 i feel its a high security risk
• 3788[21:25:29] <EdePopede> oxek: hmpf. the prime directive.
• 3789[21:25:42] <sney> f8e4: that stuff is pretty unlikely, but if you have a sane router you can filter the printer's ip from reaching the internet
• 3790[21:25:46] <RoyK> oxek: it'd be interesting to know what the teacher want to achieve from this
• 3791[21:26:16] <oxek> RoyK: it's not even the teachers, it comes from the higher-ups
• 3792[21:26:30] <RoyK> can you spell micromanagement?
• 3793[21:26:45] *** Quits: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3794[21:26:52] <f8e4> RoyK most want their paycheck and cup of coffee during launchbreak on a chat with fellows..
• 3795[21:27:03] <sney> some school board dead weight trying to justify their own existence, maybe
• 3796[21:27:32] *** Joins: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip)
• 3797[21:27:32] <EdePopede> most school systems are horribly broken probably anyway
• 3798[21:28:26] *** Joins: lionrouge (~lionrouge@replaced-ip)
• 3799[21:28:28] <lionrouge> hi !
• 3800[21:28:41] <oxek> now this is a little bit 'extra', but is there a simple way of making it so that 'docs docs' brings up the manpage of 'man'?
• 3801[21:29:10] <lionrouge> Trying to install Epson printer drivers from their official site. They distribute them as *.deb.tar.gz. And when I do `tar xf` I get a drectory instead of 1 .deb file. What can I do about it?
• 3802[21:29:31] <RoyK> oxek: yeah - you just have to rename it all, run sed through all the manpages and change them from "man" to "docs"
• 3803[21:29:31] <sney> oxek: make that a case for the shell script
• 3804[21:29:40] <RoyK> for gods' sake - why???
• 3805[21:30:00] <sney> or symlink man.1.gz to docs.1.gz
• 3806[21:30:04] <oxek> RoyK: I doubt I'd need to rename every occurence of 'man' everywhere. I was just asked to rename the command.
• 3807[21:30:05] *** Parts: mason (~mason@replaced-ip) ()
• 3808[21:30:22] <oxek> even having 'docs docs' is a bit extra, but as sney says I'll do it in the script
• 3809[21:30:25] <sney> lionrouge: what's actually in that directory? it's hard for us to guess
• 3810[21:30:55] <sney> lionrouge: also, some of the less cheap printers are supported out of the box by cups-driverless, so you might not even need that package
• 3811[21:31:14] <EdePopede> oxek: some manpages are just links to others. can't remember the exact method, just look into some really small one ;)
• 3812[21:31:20] <RoyK> oxek: I suggeste you contact management and slowly, but kindly tell them the "man" command has nothing to do with gender, but "manual" and at the same time, tell them you'll need to do a week's worth of work to rename it, and that it'll probably break in future upgrades
• 3813[21:31:32] <oxek> sney: I'd need to do the symlink in the man-db dir, which is under control of apt, so it would possibly break at some point
• 3814[21:31:45] <oxek> unless there's some special /usr/local/ dir for that too
• 3815[21:31:48] <sney> oxek: only if some debian package introduced a file by the same name
• 3816[21:31:52] <EdePopede> should work if you create docs.1.gz in /usr/local and point to the normal manpage
• 3817[21:31:53] <sney> but yes there is also /usr/local/man
• 3818[21:32:12] <lionrouge> sney, sorry I was wrong
• 3819[21:32:18] <lionrouge> I thought it's .deb package internals
• 3820[21:32:23] <sney> or maybe it's /usr/local/share/doc hmm I'd have to look at the fhs to be sure
• 3821[21:32:24] <sney> !fhs
• 3822[21:32:24] <dpkg> Debian follows the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. The filesystem is categorized by purpose, not application. This allows, for example, the easy and efficient deployment of a read-only /usr area across a number of thin clients. See replaced-url
• 3823[21:32:32] <RoyK> EdePopede: no, don't - just teach the kids how to use the system as it is
• 3824[21:32:36] <lionrouge> but it's just a couple of dirs with deb packages, README.rst and install.sh
• 3825[21:32:42] <lionrouge> it works fine
• 3826[21:32:43] <oxek> sney: /usr/local/man will work then, wonderful, thank you once again. I need to explore the functionality of /usr/local at some point, might as well do it now
• 3827[21:32:57] * RoyK gives in
• 3828[21:33:28] <sney> RoyK: it's been established repeatedly that oxek doesn't have any say in these requirements, so um, welcome to the party
• 3829[21:33:29] <EdePopede> RoyK: seems as there's no other option then just to do it. customer is king. they could refuse it, but it's their decision.
• 3830[21:33:42] *** Quits: idhugo (~idhugo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3831[21:33:43] <oxek> RoyK: I'm just a small fry, it's not my place to be doing that. And we're doing it for free anyway.
• 3832[21:33:58] <EdePopede> of course the whole approach is totally braindead, but they want it like this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
• 3833[21:34:03] <RoyK> oxek: then tell them to do it themselves
• 3834[21:34:58] <EdePopede> oxek: your company is d'accord with doing it like this? or did you see your boss fp'ing?
• 3835[21:35:11] *** Joins: wikan (~wikan@replaced-ip)
• 3836[21:35:16] <oxek> RoyK: it's a sensitive issue, we don't want to be in the news "Company X refuses to fix -ist terminology on school systems"
• 3837[21:35:26] <EdePopede> the alternative would be to just tell them "there's no sane way doing it without braking the system"
• 3838[21:35:28] <wikan> hi. Question about meltdown/spectre bugs
• 3839[21:35:29] *** dfacto is now known as xparanoik
• 3840[21:36:02] <RoyK> oxek: I should be more like "Management in Compny X refuses to use their brains"
• 3841[21:36:02] <oxek> I am of course exaggerating, it would very likely not make the news
• 3842[21:36:09] <wikan> if I use debian and repository apps is those bugs a real risk?
• 3843[21:36:27] <sney> wikan: both are mitigated by default in debian kernels
• 3844[21:37:20] <wikan> understand, but I wonder what exactly the risk is
• 3845[21:37:37] <sney> wikan: also, real-world vulnerabilities using either are few and far between on *client* systems like your home pc. it's more of an issue for machines that, for instance, host multiple websites with privileged data
• 3846[21:37:39] *** Quits: zyleb (~zyley@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3847[21:37:39] <wikan> it is risky to run external software or every software - like firefox and websites
• 3848[21:37:52] *** Joins: zyleb (~zyley@replaced-ip)
• 3849[21:38:05] <sney> wikan: the meltdownattack.com site describes it better than I can.
• 3850[21:38:07] <wikan> s/it is/is it/
• 3851[21:38:20] <annadane> yes but this is why there are certificates
• 3852[21:38:23] <wikan> ok :) thanks
• 3853[21:38:32] <annadane> and general common sense
• 3854[21:38:44] <wikan> i am trying to find why I have performance problems here
• 3855[21:39:29] <wikan> i use a little old laptop. mostly everything work fine, but not videos in firefox
• 3856[21:39:44] <sney> what's your definition of "old laptop"
• 3857[21:40:24] <wikan> well I use 32bit debian on GenuineIntel 2.00GHz 2Core, 3.9GB
• 3858[21:40:29] <annadane> (and ublock origin)
• 3859[21:41:24] <wikan> dell m1210
• 3860[21:41:26] <sney> some old mobile gpus are genuinely too slow for common web videos
• 3861[21:42:03] <wikan> sney: right, but i am trying to understand what is a problem here
• 3862[21:42:27] <sney> I wouldn't be surprised if a laptop from 2006 using a gma950 genuinely *can't* decode h.264 in realtime
• 3863[21:42:54] <wikan> so it is about some registers?
• 3864[21:43:11] *** Joins: d3sync|2 (~d3sync@replaced-ip)
• 3865[21:43:15] <sney> it's about some hardware that is too old for the modern internet.
• 3866[21:43:36] <wikan> not sure
• 3867[21:43:40] <sney> you can try disabling the spectre/meltdown mitigations, there are kernel options for it iirc.
• 3868[21:43:42] <oxek> wikan: afaik there has not been a single demonstrated case of someone using meltdown/spectre/etc. to exfiltrate data or anything like that
• 3869[21:43:44] <wikan> i can use compton and watch videos in vlc
• 3870[21:43:46] <sney> but I doubt that will make your video faster.
• 3871[21:44:12] <ratrace> oxek: you mean other than PoCs
• 3872[21:44:20] <oxek> ratrace: yeah, other than PoCs
• 3873[21:45:29] *** Joins: k4nz1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 3874[21:45:43] <wikan> oxek: I understand that the risk is using external apps. But not sure if firefox from repo may be used from website's javascript level to attack
• 3875[21:46:02] *** Quits: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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• 3877[21:46:02] *** Quits: d3sync (~d3sync@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3878[21:46:05] <wikan> or even firefox from firefox.com
• 3879[21:46:20] <wikan> so question is about javascript on websites
• 3880[21:46:48] <wikan> wonder if I can disable thsese patches - maybe that affects performance
• 3881[21:46:57] <oxek> wikan: it theoretically may, but so far it has only been demonstrated in PoCs in very specific lab conditions. Nobody knows if it has been used in the real world yet, or if it even realistically could be used, especially on home PCs.
• 3882[21:47:44] <oxek> wikan: easy to disable, pass mitigations=off to your kernel cmdline
• 3883[21:47:52] *** Joins: satousan (main@replaced-ip)
• 3884[21:48:41] <wikan> oxek: can I disable only selected patches?
• 3885[21:48:44] <oxek> and test if it gives you a noticeable performance gain in what you're doing so that you know if it is worth it or not
• 3886[21:48:56] <wikan> I have: cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf mds swapgs
• 3887[21:48:56] <oxek> wikan: yeah, but you'll need to search online for that
• 3888[21:49:04] *** Joins: nebunez (~user@replaced-ip)
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• 3890[21:49:25] *** Quits: eventhorizon5 (~smuxi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3891[21:50:06] <wikan> damn
• 3892[21:50:19] <wikan> grub args
• 3893[21:50:47] <wikan> i thought it is possible to disable on fly
• 3894[21:50:50] <oxek> doesn't have to be grub args, there are ways of doing it even if you don't boot using grubs
• 3895[21:50:57] <oxek> but a restart is very likely necessary
• 3896[21:51:46] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip)
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• 3900[21:52:37] <wikan> i don't know how to do it
• 3901[21:53:01] <wikan> I was using grub ver 1 10 years ago :)
• 3902[21:53:13] <wikan> grub2 is a magic to me
• 3903[21:53:35] <wikan> can you show me some directions?
• 3904[21:53:38] *** Quits: noosanon (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3905[21:53:44] <nvz> one easy way to change the commandline for all linux entries is to add something to /etc/default/grub one of the first few lines is GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" or such
• 3906[21:53:59] <nvz> anything you put there will be appended to the kernel commandline for all linux entries
• 3907[21:54:17] <nvz> then just run grub-install
• 3908[21:54:44] <oxek> nvz: I'd say run 'update-grub' instead
• 3909[21:54:51] <nvz> yeah that too
• 3910[21:54:52] <nvz> :D
• 3911[21:55:05] <wikan> can I just add second entry in grub?
• 3912[21:55:10] <oxek> wikan: you'll want something like GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet mitigations=off"
• 3913[21:55:21] <oxek> but instead of mitigations=off, you'll want the specific ones you want
• 3914[21:55:42] <wikan> i prefer new entry in grub
• 3915[21:56:08] <nvz> well, good luck with that :D
• 3916[21:56:14] <oxek> wikan: if you don't want to modify anything, you can just pass that argument at the grub menu
• 3917[21:56:22] <nvz> looks like you'll be learning grub2 afterall :D
• 3918[21:57:38] *** Joins: atlizz_ (~atlizz@replaced-ip)
• 3919[21:57:44] <oxek> wikan: you can create new menus in /etc/grub.d/ and then run update-grub
• 3920[21:58:46] <wikan> not /boot/grub/grub.cfg?
• 3921[21:59:03] <oxek> grub.cfg gets generated from those in /etc/grub.d/
• 3922[21:59:04] <wikan> "this is automaticaly generated" right
• 3923[21:59:17] <oxek> so try editing /etc/grub.d/40_custom
• 3924[21:59:37] <wikan> ok, but i have empty /etc/grub.d dir
• 3925[21:59:52] <oxek> hmm
• 3926[21:59:57] <wikan> ups sorry
• 3927[21:59:58] <oxek> systemd-boot perhaps?
• 3928[22:00:03] <wikan> checked for /etc/default
• 3929[22:00:38] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 3930[22:00:45] *** Joins: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip)
• 3931[22:00:50] <oxek> this is one of the big changes between grub1 and grub2 - in grub2 you shouldn't edit the grub.cfg manually, it gets generated
• 3932[22:02:30] <wikan> damn
• 3933[22:02:37] <oxek> I'd say don't mess with this now - just do it temporarily on boot by adding that option in the grub menu when you start the computer
• 3934[22:02:47] <oxek> press 'c' or 'e' on start, can't remember right now
• 3935[22:03:20] <oxek> certainly safer than what you're might be doing now
• 3936[22:03:32] <wikan> oxek you right
• 3937[22:03:52] <wikan> i will try comands at boot
• 3938[22:04:11] <wikan> btw, what if I do blablabla=10
• 3939[22:04:30] <wikan> can I remove bad argument from grub?
• 3940[22:04:31] <oxek> nothing should break afaik, kernel ignores unknown commandlines
• 3941[22:05:10] <oxek> wikan: what bad argument are you talking about?
• 3942[22:06:34] <wikan> any
• 3943[22:07:16] <wikan> not sure if it is ok but I got:
• 3944[22:07:29] <wikan> File descriptor 26 (pipe:[335637]) leaked on lvs invocation. Parent PID 13950
• 3945[22:07:40] <wikan> many errors like this when I did update-grub
• 3946[22:08:56] *** jfb4_ is now known as jfb4
• 3947[22:09:13] <oxek> not familiar with that one, so someone else might help
• 3948[22:09:40] *** Quits: coot (~coot@replaced-ip) (Quit: coot)
• 3949[22:09:47] <wikan> ok... restarting
• 3950[22:09:56] <wikan> wish me luck
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• 3952[22:10:22] * wikan will back
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• 3963[22:17:15] <wikan> nothing happen
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• 3965[22:17:32] <wikan> still cpuinfo gives me bugs
• 3966[22:17:48] <oxek> cpuinfo will still list those bugs
• 3967[22:18:04] <oxek> what does this do: cat /proc/cmdline
• 3968[22:18:41] <wikan> correct command
• 3969[22:18:51] <wikan> i can play 720p
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• 3971[22:18:54] <wikan> on youtube
• 3972[22:18:56] <wikan> so it works
• 3973[22:19:14] <wikan> i had have set 480 max
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• 3975[22:19:37] <oxek> strange but ok, I would not have expected it to affect something like video playback so severely
• 3976[22:19:54] <oxek> perhaps the restart itself helped? Something was running in background taking up performace?
• 3977[22:20:09] <wikan> nope
• 3978[22:20:21] <wikan> i had firefox, xterm and weechat
• 3979[22:20:34] <wikan> i always had 720p probelms
• 3980[22:20:54] <wikan> now 1080p plays exactly like 720p before
• 3981[22:20:59] <wikan> slideshow
• 3982[22:21:52] <wikan> play, stop reacts immediately
• 3983[22:22:07] <wikan> it is faster
• 3984[22:22:12] <wikan> much faster
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• 3990[22:25:46] <wikan> even gmail works much faster
• 3991[22:25:59] <wikan> gmail is a s**t
• 3992[22:26:05] <oxek> strage that it would have such an impact
• 3993[22:26:45] <wikan> it is about 20% - 50%
• 3994[22:26:49] <wikan> it depends
• 3995[22:27:14] <oxek> 20%-50% in very specific scenarios, none of which should be 'gmail' or 'video playback'
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• 4002[22:34:53] <wikan> it is not gmail or video playback
• 4003[22:34:59] <wikan> it is javascript around it
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• 4008[22:43:51] <hipodilski> any idea how can I fix a messed debian installation due to mistakenly deletion of /usr/lib/dpkg
• 4009[22:44:12] <hipodilski> I tried reinstalling using a copy of /usr/lib/dpkg from another debian but some packages are failing badly with dependency issues
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• 4012[22:45:36] <nkuttler> hipodilski: what kind of files do you have in there? find /usr/lib/dpkg
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• 4015[22:47:41] <frunks> hipodilski: dpkg -s apt
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• 4017[22:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1134
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• 4019[22:51:21] <wikan> oxek: for example, deviantart works 30% better
• 4020[22:51:38] <wikan> thanks :)
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• 4025[22:59:55] <oxek> wikan: did you use mitigations=off or some specific ones instead?
• 4026[23:00:44] <wikan> i puked there
• 4027[23:01:09] <wikan> noibpb pti=off nopti spectre_v2=off spectre_v1=off nospec_store_bypass_disable mds=off mitigations=off
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• 4035[23:06:23] <quadrathoch2> so all are off, interesting. 30% is quite a lot
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• 4040[23:10:25] <wikan> quadrathoch2: well sometimes it is like 200%. Firefox and JS needs resources so there is a huge difference sometimes
• 4041[23:10:46] <wikan> fine I like it
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• 4044[23:12:21] <wikan> thank you for your help and instructions ;)
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• 4053[23:16:03] <wikan> last info: changing resolution -> firefox changeing window size in < 1 second. Before it was > 3 seconds.
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• 4082[23:51:41] <freefolk> The debian wiki page for the rt2800usb driver (replaced-url
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• 4084[23:53:19] <freefolk> `dpkg -L firmware-misc-nonfree | grep rt5572` doesn't give any hits either.
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• 4089[23:58:02] <jhutchins> !rt5572
• 4090[23:58:02] <dpkg> The Ralink RT5572 802.11n chip is supported by the <rt2800usb> driver since Linux 3.10. Debian 7 "Wheezy" users: ask me about <bdo kernel> and install firmware-ralink from <wheezy-backports> for device support.
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