66[01:31:56] <oerheks> seems like a rewrite of POL/wine replaced-url
67[01:33:02] <deku> Thank you! It was driving me insane because I saw one in my repository for Debian and when I installed Flatpack I saw the other and was wondering why are they the same program but different names. Lol
68[01:33:23] <deku> I'm assuming they're basically the same thing then right?
72[01:38:44] <nvz> the github for phoenicis seems to indicate its not necessarily a rewrite but its the project changing name and is v5 onward
73[01:39:00] <sney> iirc it's just a system for matching wine environments to individual applications, so the wine backend should be the same regardless
74[01:39:06] <nvz> it links to playonlinux for its documentation/support and its sites seem very new
75[01:44:12] *** Quits: Adbray (~Adbray@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ah! By Brain!)
76[01:46:13] <nvz> not to mention the POL site says Version 5 is under development and has links to Phonicis
77[01:46:29] <nvz> so it'd appear the project is just going to call it something else going forward
83[01:50:42] <jo3> In systemd-nspawn -b the `-b` option is for `booting into the dir` what does they mean by booting? (Sorry if sounds stupid, I thought booting is a process where initramfs and systemd starts and stuff when machine is powered on) but why do people used `booting` Can someone please explain?
84[01:54:16] <n4dir> isnt't systemd-nspawn something like a debootstrap ?
85[01:54:30] <nvz> jo3: well after a couple years now I'm still not sure what systemd even is exactly :D but sounds to me like its similar in a way to how there is su and su - or su -l where one is a shell as another user and one is a LOGIN shell.. but in this case systemd is creating a new container which can either appear to be merely a namespace of the current running system or appear as a whole different freshly booted
86[01:54:36] <nvz> system
87[01:55:32] <sney> it's normal to have to "boot" containers even if there isn't a discrete kernel or init system. just running the instance on the cpu.
88[01:55:45] <sney> kind of like starting a service really
89[01:59:21] <nvz> jo3: in any case there is a #systemd channel here where you can get more knowledgable information on systemd as well as the docs on freedesktop.org
90[02:00:00] <deku> @nvz Thank you for the clarification. That makes lots of sense now. That was driving me crazy today when I was trying to figure out which one I should download.
91[02:00:11] <nvz> but I'm willing to bet my general understanding of it is fairly accurate.. as the docs describe it as being similar to an lxc container
93[02:00:38] <deku> In the software store it's saying the new version is still alpha... I'm a dummy. lol
94[02:01:09] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
95[02:01:11] <nvz> deku: yes well do us all a favor and don't use social media conventions in IRC, and perhaps consider not using social media :P we don't use @ to highlight people on IRC it predates usertags
99[02:02:49] <deku> nvz: Sorry, I'm still pretty new with IRC I still don't know a lot about this.
100[02:03:21] <nvz> yes well as I understand all sorts of modern things have adopted these conventions.. and all of which I personally loathe.. which is why I'm _here_
101[02:03:26] <jo3> nvz: I see, thanks. Im heading there
102[02:03:28] <deku> definitely slowly moving away from social media in general. Besides mastodon.
103[02:03:40] <nvz> deku: you been using that? how do you like it?
104[02:04:21] <nvz> deku: I looked into many federated social networks and that one seemed like the most likely facebook replacement for most people as it seemed to have apps for mobile and stuff and worked much the same
105[02:06:15] <deku> nvz: I feel you on that. Most modern social media is just pretty toxic these days in the current enviroment. Mastodon is pretty neat, laid back more personal compared to twitter. In twitter you're just yelling out in the ether, while in Mastodon people actually sometimes respond and there's a whole variety of subjects and servers you can talk about different things on, almost like a IRC but with a fancy GUI in a way.
107[02:07:18] <nvz> deku: yeah I dont think I'm for it anytime soon but I been suggesting it to people who are already on social media.. trying to see if I could maybe get your average person to move away from the corporate pseudosocial networking
108[02:08:49] <b30wulf> whats with that buggy update yesterday of evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common
111[02:09:23] <deku> nvz: Oh for sure, especially with all the social hacking going going on those platforms being manipulated by algorithms and whatnot creating these weird unorganic echochambers and warzones of sorts. Mastodon feels more like Myspace before Facebook took over.
112[02:09:28] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
128[02:22:47] <nvz> ah, sucks.. why didn't you say so :P
129[02:23:57] <nvz> might wanna file a bug report on that then.. like 8 packages.. something sucks.. I'm sure that'll be real helpful to the maintainer and upstream developers
145[02:36:44] <nvz> b30wulf: I figured as much.. but you're going way out on a limb that someone 1) uses evolution 2) updated recently 3) shares your opinion that it "sucks" and 4) knows something more about it than you do
146[02:37:08] <nvz> without any detailed information, you are very unlikely to get more than I'd given you, the tracker page..
196[03:22:09] <maxtim> do programs like dd utilize multi-cores/threads? I'm wondering if there is a benefit to using a more powerful machine for things like disk cloning, or is the bottleneck purely going to be the disk IO speed. (sorry if this is the wrong channel for a discussion like this)
212[03:30:58] <maxtim> believe me, I have been eyeing a nicer machine for a long time, even 12-cores would make me happy right now
213[03:31:09] <sney> like this thing: replaced-url
214[03:31:46] <maxtim> oh that's pretty cool
215[03:31:50] <RoyK> pi4 has usb3, though
216[03:33:00] <RoyK> sney: I've used something like that, a four port - used it to delete disks - works, but somewhat slow. This one may be faster, though
217[03:33:39] <maxtim> yeah, the pi4 is pretty good. I have a pi3b+ and it's just below acceptable for most things i want to do with it. Pretty neat little device, though
220[03:34:40] <RoyK> only issue with the pi4 is heat - it really should have been shipped with a heatsink or even a fan. it works well without either under low load, though
221[03:36:04] <maxtim> i think my latte panda has the same issue
223[03:36:30] <maxtim> with heat. I really like that device, though. expensive compared to the pi
224[03:36:33] <RoyK> dunno - never tried those
225[03:36:48] <maxtim> it's finicky to get windows off
226[03:37:44] <maxtim> which is a terrible idea, btw. windows on a single board like that. stupid os crashed every time you did a safe restart
227[03:38:09] <sney> I deployed some odroid c2s as digital signage a couple years ago. nice upgrade compared to a pi(at the time) without spending much more. embedded machines are pretty single-purpose though, anything that was going to be "under load" I would have gone x86
334[05:57:12] <goodpants> hi i love debian you guys rock!
335[05:58:36] <goodpants> i have been searching for a centralized logging solution and I'm overwhelmed by the options to use collectd, fluentd, greylog, ELK etc. and fuse it all together. What are you using and what do you recommend to look into?
476[08:37:10] <kingsley> Do you happen to know of a command line utility that reports how much memory was used by running the program named in its parameter $1?
477[08:37:25] <kingsley> For example, it might look something like...
531[09:55:08] <Regor> i am trying to compile st terminal (luke smith's build) i am getting error ."Package harfbuzz was not found in the pkg-config search path" how to fix this ? what package do i need now ?
537[09:59:32] <Regor> "libharfbuzz-bin" package found in apt search ..so trying it now
538[10:00:05] <allizom> Regor: I know nothing about what you're building, but you'd presumably take note of its build dependencies and install the needed -dev packages
539[10:01:05] *** Joins: mezzo (~mezzo@replaced-ip)
588[11:41:25] <ozfalcon> I had a power failure and on reboot of the file server the external hard drive was corrupted. I'm running fsck on the unmounted drive - But it appears to have hung. Should I just let it go or interrupt the fsck process?
640[12:18:21] <ratrace> so if you leave it (vmstat) running for a minute or so, it's all zeros? maybe occasional nonzero as the system otherwise touches the disks, but no big nubmers like, hundreds or thousands on each line?
686[12:32:42] <quadrathoch2> jim I guess judd just has outdated information :/
687[12:33:44] <jim> I'm running buster with defailt 4.19.0-9 kernel...
688[12:33:56] <ozfalcon> it's going again.
689[12:34:00] <jim> do you think I need a later kernel?
690[12:34:49] <ratrace> ozfalcon: well you don't have to narrate what it does :) wait for it to finish, or see if it reaches the same state: cpu bound but no IO. at that point you could strace it like rudi_s suggested, to see which syscalls it's hanging around
691[12:36:14] <ratrace> if it doesn't, you could re-run without -n, and with -y or -p optionally; test your backups first
692[12:36:36] <quadrathoch2> jim could you post the full name of the wifi?
693[12:37:16] <ozfalcon> Perhaps it didn't hang in the first place and was just really slow. (It's not the fastest machine).
694[12:37:56] <ratrace> ozfalcon: fsck is primarily io-bound, there's nothing much for it to calculate in cpu without IO
695[12:39:30] <jim> isn't it this:
696[12:40:11] <jim> ,pciid [8086:34f0]
697[12:40:12] <judd> [8086:34f0] is 'Killer Wi-Fi 6 AX1650i 160MHz Wireless Network Adapter (201NGW)' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
698[12:40:13] <ozfalcon> Seems to be upto the same file. IO is zero. But I'll just let it go.
699[12:42:54] <jim> quadrathoch2, see ^^ from judd
700[12:43:08] <jim> other than that, that's all I know
701[12:43:17] <quadrathoch2> jim, I guess you should be able to update-initramfs and reboot.
737[12:59:49] <jim> ok, thanks, really appreciate the help... enabling backports...
738[13:01:13] <ratrace> ozfalcon: I suppose it hung in some kernel process that won't return to userland so no new syscalls are made for strace to catch.... dunno.... weird like hell.
739[13:03:05] <ozfalcon> Yeah, I think I'll shutdown the server and attach the drive to this machine.
774[13:26:01] <nvz> if you have further issues, I'd look into that bug :P
775[13:26:11] <jim> ok
776[13:26:45] <nvz> its one case where they'll scan and appear to work but wont actually conect unless you disable predictable ifnames
777[13:27:47] <nvz> I never followed through with running it down cause I couldnt get if renaming to work and then lost track of an adapter that was effected
779[13:28:49] <jim> thanks a lot for the info... I have the page open, I'll check that stuff out
780[13:33:04] <ozfalcon> ratrace, Interesting. Did the same thing when attached to my machine. But after about 5min it continued on. Now it's stalled on the next file. I think it's just taking a long time to process.
821[14:28:41] <ozfalcon> ratrace, I don't think it did timeout. It was just running & processing. I should have run strace when I moved it to this machine.
823[14:30:49] <ozfalcon> ratrace, I do have another drive I could test it on.... But it's busy re-copying the files that were screwed up (5 hrs to copy over the (slow) 100Mbit network).
856[15:05:06] <no_gravity> Hello! I have a strange boot problem. The system hangs at "started light manager" or similar. But when I hit "CTRL+ALT+F1" and run "startx" I go straight to Gnome and all seems fine. Any ideas how to go about this?
887[15:15:24] <genr8_> you know theres a function button to switch display output between internal and external? Maybe the laptop is outputting to the external
888[15:15:25] <ratrace> greycat would've loved this
889[15:15:25] <no_gravity> At first I thought the hardware is dead. Because I took it on a pretty wild scooter ride today.
917[15:21:47] <genr8_> i guess its fine then. you're just operating on TTY1 now. which is cause you did Ctrl+Alt+F1 and ran startx from it. Xorg should be running with lightdm on tty7
918[15:22:11] <genr8_> if its not, lightdm or Xorg got messed up somehow
919[15:22:20] <ratrace> there aren't two xorgs running here. there's only one (lockable) socket
921[15:23:32] <ratrace> so.... back to 10 minutes ago..... ligthdm logs. Xorg.0.log too. (from /var/log, assuming that's the "main" xorg log, your unprivileged startx is probably logging into ~/.local/)
922[15:24:11] <genr8_> ratrace, its possible for two Xorgs to be running.
923[15:24:22] <ratrace> I know, but one must specify different sockets
924[15:24:28] <ratrace> ie. can't accidentally via `startx`
925[15:24:33] <genr8_> nope
926[15:24:42] <genr8_> ill pastebin mine after just trying it
962[15:35:25] <genr8_> well still, idk how that messed it up. lightdm is pretty resilient. theres not even anything useful in the config file by default
1074[17:14:28] <brutser> i have a ryzen 2400g system with 16G ram, i wonder, do I need to set a SWAP partition and if so, what would be the desired size? i don't need hibernation or sleep functionality
1096[17:26:21] <brutser> PaulePanter: i don't think i used swap before, but i was doing a re-installation and then wondered, do i need a swap partition or not, i always do manual partitioning, so yea
1097[17:26:34] <brutser> the system is a desktop system mainly doing qemu-kvm
1098[17:26:41] <brutser> nothing else really
1099[17:27:15] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok ratrace
1100[17:27:24] <brutser> i always prevent to allocate memory to the vm's to go over 80% of total memory available
1101[17:27:25] <Eryn_1983_FL> really
1102[17:27:31] <Eryn_1983_FL> what about systemd resolve?
1147[18:15:30] <karlpinc> PaulePanter: Having some swap is always good. Unless you are certain you have more RAM than you will ever use. This is never the case because RAM can always be used for file system buffering. There's always very rarely used pages in any application that can be swapped out to free RAM for something useful.
1150[18:17:07] <karlpinc> brutser: It's always simplest to install from the unoffical install images which contain non-free firmware. Then your hardware gets the firmware it needs upon install and you don't have to worry about it.
1151[18:17:18] <karlpinc> ratrace: Fair enough. Never is a long time.
1172[18:30:30] <tinga> Hi. How do I find out what the backing store is for a device like e.g. /dev/dm-6 ? I want to know if it's encrypted and on which disk.
1175[18:33:49] <tomreyn> sudo dmsetup info /dev/dm-6
1176[18:33:56] <tinga> So, the first part can be answered via `dmsetup ls |grep -F "($MAJOR:$MINOR)"` then taking the first column and `dmsetup info $val`
1177[18:34:02] <tinga> yep
1178[18:34:18] <tinga> Now it's encrypted, how do I find out what the backing store is?
1179[18:34:31] *** Quits: brutser (574149f0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1180[18:35:14] <tinga> If there's a graphical tool that simply shows me a graph with, or UI to click through, the connections, that would be perfect.
1181[18:35:43] <tinga> (Command line is fine, too, though.)
1188[18:42:40] <tomreyn> i'm not aware of better tools. you got the major + minor, can work with this, or with /dev/disk/by-*
1189[18:43:46] <tinga> Yes, I can make a program myself to make it nice; but so far I haven't figured out any way to figure out the backing store at all.
1190[18:45:24] <tomreyn> maybe lsblk is what you'r elooking for
1277[20:07:55] <Han> There is a new release for nicotine-plus-2.0.1. Is there a packager in here who might be interested into bringing the current (10 year old) package up to date?
1278[20:08:23] <Han> The source dir already contains a working /debian dir so it shouldn't be too hard.
1279[20:08:59] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1294[20:13:26] <brutser> got some boot errors when installing debian on system with Asrock b450m pro4 / AMD 2400G + Asux GTX 960. is there any expert around that have time to take a look at the boot errors?
1295[20:14:10] <brutser> i use debian for 6 months now, so not really an expert when it comes to technical stuff like this ^
1296[20:14:13] *** jukebohi is now known as juboxi
1297[20:14:29] <ratrace> brutser: pastebin and someone might know
1312[20:22:56] <ratrace> Han: that's just for the bug report, not the package itself. see in the first post the requester ack'd future resurrection for pygtk3
1313[20:23:04] <brutser> system with Asrock b450m pro4 / AMD 2400G + Asux GTX 960 ^^
1314[20:23:50] <ratrace> brutser: btw, you can get the "red colored" items with journalctl -p err
1315[20:24:04] <brutser> ratrace: ok
1316[20:24:12] <brutser> ^^ i enabled IOMMU in BIOS because i would like to setup qemu-kvm and passthrough the additional gpu in the system for a Windows VM
1322[20:26:06] <brutser> so system has igpu with the 2400g apu and also an asus gtx960 that i would like to use for passthrough as explained above
1323[20:27:35] <brutser> i just started the setup/config, so i just installed debian minimal and openbox, also installed firmware-nonfree and firmware-realtek or whatever they are exact called - so firmware-nonfree contains the amd stuff right? and xserver-xorg-video-ati i installed for openbox
1324[20:27:38] <brutser> that's about it
1325[20:27:54] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1327[20:29:19] <brutser> just to be complete: i had one additional boot error: sp5100-tco sp5100-tco: Watchdog hardware is disabled << but i 'solved' this by blacklist sp5100_tco << as the motherboard is not IPMI compliant anyway, so i don't need this module to load and create this boot error.. not 100% sure if I am right on this, but at least the boot error disappeared
1328[20:29:40] <Han> okies. Let's see what happens.
1329[20:30:47] <brutser> ratrace: i hope you or any other expert here can confirm this and also understand what the other boot errors mean and how to fix, i googled hours, but could not find a suitable solution yet - the IOMMU error, most solutions suggest to disable IOMMU with a kernel parameter, but i will need IOMMU later on if i want gpu passthrough right?
1330[20:31:42] <ratrace> brutser: I can't tell if those ACPI errors are critical or just something you can safely ignore. I ahve a few on some on my systems I can safely ignore, for example.
1331[20:32:07] <brutser> those ACPI problems are most likely not critical, i always hate them to show up when booting, but i got laptops too where they show, i believe the only way to get rid of those is the motherboard manufacture to update BIOS right?
1332[20:32:12] <brutser> yes i was just writing that ^
1333[20:32:26] <ratrace> brutser: equally I can't tell if that MMIO thing for nouveau is boot critical or not. I do know that my main desktop doesn't boot with debian 10 due to nouveau blocking boot, I have to go text mode and install nvidia, before I can boot into normal gui
1369[20:44:49] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
1370[20:44:57] <ratrace> brutser: you add/enable backports, but don't run whole system upgrade. just install the kernel with -t buster-backports
1371[20:45:06] <Kurogane> ratrace, how i do that?
1372[20:45:29] <ratrace> Kurogane: what do you need exactly, to begin with?
1373[20:46:20] <Kurogane> that what you say, i need only run one app to run libc6 2.25
1384[20:51:12] <brutser> ratrace: ok that will need me to reboot most likely, so see you in a bit
1385[20:51:15] <dcarr> i just installed debian 10 and i have no idea what it is using for networking
1386[20:51:25] <RoyK> ratrace: I haven't read the whole backlog. Why do you need a new kernel?
1387[20:51:54] <ratrace> RoyK: I recommended it to brutser due to certain amdgpu kernel traces and problems with 4.19, and they got a newer-ish hardware
1388[20:51:56] <brutser> RoyK: i got several boot erros
1390[20:52:10] <dcarr> i am used to just setting up netctl, but sadly that wont work in this case... /etc has config files for programs not installed, and all the guides i have found point to using legacy software that isnt even on my system anyways
1393[20:52:27] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. replaced-url
1394[20:52:27] <ratrace> dcarr: /etc/network/interfaces is the default, using ifupdown framework
1395[20:52:47] <brutser> ratrace: i need to re-install firmware after i installed the new kernel?
1396[20:52:49] <ratrace> dcarr: however, on GUI installations, the NetworkManager might overtake that, depending on its config
1397[20:52:55] <brutser> should i also install that from backports?
1398[20:53:21] <ratrace> brutser: I don't see any relevant firmware packages in backports
1399[20:53:43] <ratrace> you don't have to reinstall, firmware files are not bound to kernel version afaik
1400[20:53:48] <dcarr> i stripped it of the gui it came with since i didnt want that installed in the first place and put i3 on it instead, but it will mainly be just cli
1429[20:58:46] *** Quits: Rue (~rue@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1430[20:59:21] <ratrace> dcarr: you can start with debootstrap'd installation but that's pretty much what oyu get with regular installation and selecting NO tasks or software to install
1440[21:02:16] <ratrace> brutser: you can ignore that nouveau probem if you intend to pass it through to the VM. acpi errors are something I wouldn't know where to start, it's usually a loud mess (sometimes harmless). as for that amdgpu firmware missing, well... seems like that's not packaged
1441[21:02:24] <dcarr> okay i think i can make debbootstrap work for me.. i can put it on a simple 28g jumpdrive right?
1445[21:02:56] <dcarr> and use that to bootstrap it to whatever system i choose
1446[21:03:52] <ratrace> dcarr: debootstrap is a package. it's available on other distros too. you can use it to install minimal debian installation into a directory.
1447[21:04:01] <dcarr> cause after using arch for so long, this graphical install is so complex
1449[21:04:17] <ratrace> dcarr: keep in mind, that "minimal" here means it installs no kernel, no grub, doesn't set up root pass, nor ssh server, nor networking.
1450[21:04:29] <dcarr> similar to arch
1451[21:04:36] <ratrace> dcarr: use the ncurses installer and just hit enter. it's not that more complex at all
1472[21:08:17] <ratrace> brutser: frankly I don't know. maybe you don't even need that firmware, and maybe it can be found in newer (not yet backported) packages for bullseye or sid
1473[21:09:03] <ratrace> brutser: right, for example the amdgpu/raven_ta.bin thingy is available in sid's firmware-amd-graphics package
1474[21:09:19] <brutser> ok
1475[21:09:24] <brutser> i will try install that separately
1476[21:09:42] <ratrace> the package has no dependencies, so you _might_ be able to pull off a heresy and install ONLY that one from sid. or do a backport yourself.
1477[21:09:48] <ratrace> !ssb
1478[21:09:49] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
1479[21:09:53] <dcarr> okay so last question for now, how do i make systemd auto start my network profiles
1480[21:10:16] <brutser> that sounds complicated ^
1485[21:10:39] <sney> firmware packages just copy a bunch of binary files to /lib/firmware, there is no compilation involved
1486[21:10:49] <dcarr> i use static ip addrs
1487[21:11:06] <sney> tarballs with newer firmware than what's in debian can be downloaded from kernel.org as well. replaced-url
1488[21:11:11] <ratrace> brutser: but in this case, recommendations AGAINST notwithstanding, perhaps you can just pull that one from sid, just like you did the kernel from backports
1489[21:11:29] <RoyK> sney: that's the funny thing about it. firmware is the sneaky way to import closed source into an otherwise open-source system
1491[21:11:49] <sney> indeed, hence the existence of linux-libre
1492[21:12:11] <dcarr> why cant i put a dash in my user name?
1493[21:12:18] <shibboleth> is it possible to determine the max/supported mtu sizes for an interface?
1494[21:12:46] <ratrace> dcarr: typically you set up network via /etc/network/interfaces, which is used by networking.service, but nothing prevents you from using systemd-networkd, if you're familiar with that from arch
1495[21:13:10] <dcarr> actuly i used netctl
1496[21:13:35] <ratrace> that's some Archlinux NIH? like netplan is for Ubuntu?
1497[21:13:41] <dcarr> but as long as the profile file i put in etc/network/interfaces does the job
1498[21:14:14] <dcarr> i just need it to start on boot, so i dont have to loginto the system directly
1504[21:15:03] <brutser> you will have to select your hardware for that purpose if you want to live without firmware
1505[21:15:39] <ratrace> that's something even Purism Librem can't do fully :)
1506[21:15:41] <dcarr> then why didnt those come up when i searched for alternitives
1507[21:15:54] <dcarr> oh well thats why im here, thanks man
1508[21:15:55] <nvz> you can't live without firmware.. you can live without nonfree firmware..
1509[21:16:21] <ratrace> depends
1510[21:16:35] <brutser> i once had a laptop with coreboot flashed onto the bios chip, but then after doing that, realized i need firmware for amd graphics - so then i am back to closed source blobs
1511[21:16:40] <jhutchins> Firmware usually implemeents government mandated controls, that's why it's not open.
1526[21:20:49] <brutser> anyway, i am going off topic, i still have my boot errors to worry about :)
1527[21:21:13] <Boodie> Hi, [buster]. I am trying to setup the cloud service on BT, anybody here familiar?
1528[21:22:02] <ratrace> !ask
1529[21:22:02] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
1530[21:22:23] <nvz> Bittorrent? Bluetooth? British Telecom?
1531[21:22:42] * nvz rolls eyes at two letter acronyms
1552[21:27:12] <nvz> well one thing is for sure, they don't use slavery.. which is apparent from their website :D
1553[21:27:40] <Boodie> I managed to upload my files, drag&dropping a directory on their "portal", but the apps sync the files "incrementally" ... the threads of discussion seem to confirm that BT does not offer this service for Linux
1554[21:27:44] <nvz> so I guess you can't use the slavery protocol *shrugs*
1555[21:28:01] <Boodie> Slavery?
1556[21:28:19] <Boodie> I thought it was illegal nowadays :)
1557[21:28:20] <ratrace> like slavery, just abolish BT too. plenty of linux friendly services ousside.
1558[21:28:27] <dcarr> boy that came out of left feild
1587[21:34:14] <nvz> linux distros have little say in what they have support for.. unless its something like a disk controller or such that is required for installation.. and even then you can still just boot from a compatible kernel and install and use a kernel from elsewhere
1588[21:34:18] *** Quits: brutser (574149f0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1589[21:34:53] <dcarr> well i agree, but i have found that rpm based systems dont like supporting legacy hardware
1590[21:34:54] <nevyn> dcarr: ubuntu dropping it is ithr they've dropped it from their kernel build (which would be wierd) if it's still in current upstream kernels.
1596[21:36:46] <dcarr> well i have never liked ubuntu and if i use debian, it will be og debian like 10 as is the current version
1597[21:36:50] *** Quits: kreyren_ (~kreyren@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1598[21:36:51] <abrotman> dcarr: mind you, centos is really just RHEL repackaged .. so ultimately, that was a RH decision
1599[21:37:35] <dcarr> and so is fedora
1600[21:38:01] <dcarr> my point is that it is 'their' decision, therefore what is 'debian's decison
1601[21:38:45] <abrotman> it's supported now, and that's what we can say
1602[21:38:56] <dcarr> okay thanks
1603[21:38:57] <abrotman> Aren't tulip cards still 100Mb?
1604[21:39:00] <abrotman> 10Mb?
1605[21:39:04] <abrotman> they're so old :)
1606[21:39:17] <dcarr> yes, but until we can afford newer hw this is what we are using
1607[21:39:21] <genr8_> i dont even know what a tulip card is
1608[21:39:53] <abrotman> genr8_: you can look for the driver in the kernel code .. you'll see companies that disappeared long ago
1609[21:39:54] <dcarr> an olde intel pci eth card
1610[21:40:02] <dcarr> or at least mine is
1611[21:40:05] <genr8_> also, centos drops stuff because redhat is forced to maintain customer support for them. if debian drops support you can choose to install the old version yourself
1641[21:46:47] <dcarr> its going to be a simple bios boot, no uefi
1642[21:47:02] <nvz> as of right now to have a kernen and room to build the initrd you're lookin at about 50-75MB per kernel
1643[21:47:29] <dcarr> aside from updates, i plan to only have the stock kernel
1644[21:47:32] <dcarr> nothing fancy
1645[21:47:36] <nvz> so if you plan to not keep more than 2-4 kernels, 250-300MB is fine
1646[21:47:38] <dcarr> just a rescue stick
1647[21:47:45] <abrotman> 200MB should be fine
1648[21:47:52] <dcarr> awsome thx
1649[21:47:59] <abrotman> average kernel is about 50MB in /boot
1650[21:48:09] <abrotman> so .. if you want three kernels .. that's probably fine
1651[21:48:29] <abrotman> my current /boot/ wiht 2 kernels is 150MB
1652[21:48:37] <abrotman> (grub is under /boot/)
1653[21:48:56] <abrotman> as is efi/
1654[21:49:25] <abrotman> dcarr: also, if you can, use LVM, and leave some space
1655[21:49:29] <dcarr> my main one duel boots 10 and arch, so it has uefi, and ends up being 256mb
1656[21:49:36] <petn-randall> I usually make /boot 512MB, as I sometimes test several kernels for bisecting bugs.
1657[21:49:50] <petn-randall> But that's just me, most people get along with less.
1658[21:50:03] <dcarr> well i dont like using lvm's if i can avoid it
1659[21:50:08] <abrotman> you guys probably have 100GB HDDs or something huge!
1660[21:50:22] <dcarr> actily ~1tb
1661[21:50:32] <abrotman> dcarr: do you need to have /boot on its own partition at all?
1662[21:50:36] <dcarr> but its an old win8 laptop
1663[21:51:07] <nvz> yes I had used the defaul of about 250 with auto-partitioning for encrypted lvm and on my T440 I have debian stock, backports, and custom and I have encountered errors on updates with building initrd due to running out of space.. but on systems I use only a debian kernel, 100MB is usually what it is to have the old and updated kernels
1664[21:51:09] <genr8_> it helps for stuff like encrypted LVM or whatever
1694[22:01:59] <genr8_> do you have any scripts for saving config files and re-installign debian?
1695[22:02:24] <dcarr> me?
1696[22:02:34] <genr8_> yes. you seem like you know what you're doing
1697[22:02:46] <jmcnaught> Sia-: cups only listens on localhost by default, look at /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
1698[22:02:48] <dcarr> oh no, tbh i am a hardcore arch user
1699[22:02:59] <genr8_> ah
1700[22:03:06] <dcarr> i am using deb because pi-hole isnt really supported on ach sadly :((
1701[22:03:08] <brachamh> oh that's right, you have to set it to listen on the network
1702[22:03:34] <genr8_> 2 networks 1 cups
1703[22:04:13] <dcarr> but to answer your question, yes and no, i have started scripts but my dad pointed out that they take the fun out of manual install so i never actuly finished them
1704[22:04:15] <Sia-> jmcnaught, i've installed on debian server
1705[22:04:24] <Sia-> not on my own computer
1706[22:05:12] <brachamh> Sia-, so you have to remote into the server and change the settings in the config file jmcnaught mentioned
1707[22:05:53] <brachamh> i set it all up on my ubuntu server a while ago...took a while to find all the settings, but it works great now! going to have to redo it sometime here as i'm setting up the replacement debian server.
1733[22:14:08] <genr8_> i was hoping for some kind of script that runs a checksum on the new install, or runs a diff of your old configs, and does the thing Apt does where it says "Yes/No/Keep/Delete/Manual"
1734[22:14:16] <brachamh> Sia-, sorry, i got the port wrong this time
1763[22:22:00] <ryouma> what i would do to install things not in debian is check backports then if not there or trustworthy looking then try to install from upstream into home dir or /opt using upstream instructions. this is not CORRECT in debian but i ahve tried creating my own backports and ... ugh.
1793[22:32:56] <ryouma> what really annoys me a great deal is shadowfox (i think that is what it is called) which is the only firefox darkener that is supposed to actually work, but has a binary blob to install it. depriving myelf o that is a problem for accessibility reasons. would be great as a debian package.
1795[22:33:58] <ryouma> (isn't erally a binary blob as much as a go program that seems completely unnecessary to just install static files)
1796[22:34:24] <ryouma> (and i don't want to vet go)
1797[22:34:26] <genr8_> my /opt is filled with electron programs that are just duplicating their electron layer out of lazyness and wasting 100MB of space
1798[22:35:12] <dcarr> well guys im going to go on a short walk so bye for now
1831[22:48:05] <dpkg> CUPS (formerly Common Unix Printing System) provides a portable printing layer for Unix-based operating systems and supports the Internet Printing Protocol. To install, ask me about <cups setup>. See also <debug cups>. replaced-url
1832[22:49:19] *** Quits: soul-d (~name@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1833[22:49:24] <genr8_> look a cups channel
1834[22:50:21] <Sia-> genr8_, you didnøt without searching in google and throw it here. any way thanks even was pointless all you chat
1861[22:59:17] <jaysbnc> when i had this issues in the past on a host i ran spinner and all was fine. but that host giving me a hard time, everythin else is good
1862[22:59:17] <Sia-> jhutchins, i did as debian wiki 100%
1865[23:00:29] <jaysbnc> genr8_: allready checkd that
1866[23:00:31] <jaysbnc> no
1867[23:01:04] <genr8_> google 'SSH timeout'
1868[23:01:13] <jaysbnc> i am running „Linux debian10 4.19.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.118-2+deb10u1“
1869[23:02:06] <mutante> jaysbnc: tried replacing the ethernet cable on that host?
1870[23:02:09] <genr8_> There should already be occasional keep-alive packets sent. probably something else is dropping the connection.
1871[23:02:34] <n_1-c_k> jaysbnc, try 'autossh', I've found it works well to mitigate a sometimes intermittent connection.
1872[23:02:43] <jaysbnc> genr8_: i am using „spinner“ to avoid any timeout issues
1873[23:03:08] <jaysbnc> mutante: its a virtual host. all other services work fine
1874[23:03:18] <mutante> if it's just one of 10 hosts and they are in the same data center then it seems unlikely it has to do with the general network though
1875[23:03:30] <mutante> more like what could be different about that 1 host
1883[23:05:51] <jaysbnc> but even opening ssh on the firewall results in fast ssh connection drops
1884[23:06:12] <jaysbnc> i can start a few commands, but when its a lot of text, it breaks down
1885[23:06:14] <genr8_> if you see any error messages like "Resource Temporarily Unavailable" its gonna be a resource limit issue.
1886[23:06:30] <jaysbnc> genr8_:
1887[23:07:27] <jaysbnc> genr8_: memory is nearly not used. its just an vpn gateway to my home network. running iperf3 sometime. but that works totally fine
1888[23:08:28] <genr8_> are you using a pfsense firewall?
1889[23:10:04] <jaysbnc> genr8_: my local openwrt is connected to that gateway
1890[23:10:28] <genr8_> I would consider that suspect
1891[23:10:42] <jaysbnc> but thats not the issue. pings are totally perferct. even when i ssh directly into the machine its stalling.
1892[23:10:53] <genr8_> either the cable, or the port, or the software on the openwrt is set to reset states, or a hardware reset in the unit itself
1893[23:11:35] <genr8_> if theres nothing in logs, its some kind of network hardware error
1948[23:39:43] <mutante> hah, nice. so wireguard had to be the difference
1949[23:39:50] <dym> Hey! Im running Debian 10 with Gnome Classic. Is there any way to show the frequencies of stored/past wlan connections?
1950[23:41:44] *** Quits: graphicsv (uid340368@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1951[23:42:55] <genr8_> well the frequencies are determined by Wifi Channels. thats determined inside the wireless card. but the OS should know what channels its on.
1955[23:43:32] <dym> genr8_: Im looking for the frequency of a network i was connected roughly 7 days ago. Will there be evidence in a log?
1956[23:43:59] <genr8_> no, look for Channels
1957[23:44:27] <genr8_> the networks are determined by SSID and channel number
1958[23:44:57] <dym> I am not connected to the network right now.
1959[23:45:05] <kedar_apte> are you maintaining the syslogs somewhere?
1960[23:45:24] <kedar_apte> I thing the wpa supplicant log will show you the frequesncy number
1961[23:45:33] <kedar_apte> wpa supplicant log will b ein /var/log/
1962[23:46:54] <dym> kedar_apte: unfortunately there is no such log. I found some bits in syslog and messages, but just references to network manager files, lacking the content im seeking.
1963[23:47:12] <kedar_apte> hmm ok
1964[23:47:36] <jaysbnc> thanks guys
1965[23:47:43] <jaysbnc> my connection is now rock solid
1968[23:50:19] <genr8_> yea it looks like wpa_supplicant does know what frequencies they are
1969[23:50:27] <jaysbnc> next topic: which notebook do you recommend? i was thinking about a huawei matebook 13 with amd ryzen 7 4500h. any expirience on that?
1979[23:54:56] <genr8_> laptops have gotten to stupid levels of proprietary these days. and huawei is now a security risk
1980[23:55:58] <genr8_> Ryzen 4500's are good, but they can usually only put them in alternative model laptops cause Intel has vendor deal lockins on the primary models
1981[23:59:43] <genr8_> and AMD did not even follow through with their promise for open firmware. its still closed. and then it leads to linux support issues