31[00:09:57] <jelly> x86 systems have their own issues, like almost completely closed firmware that has privileges to run anything without the OS knowing about it
32[00:10:07] *** Quits: swift110-phone__ (uid50036@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
44[00:16:32] <nickgaw> I own a raspberrypi models b and 3b but the code won't run on each other like I think it should if I compile something on the normal b and put the binary on the 3b I can not get it to just run why is this as I thought they were sposed to backwards build?
45[00:17:36] <rgwu> I believe the Xbox 360 has a Power chip. A triple core IIRC.
46[00:17:55] <jelly> nickgaw, software compatibility is funny and there could be any number of reasons. Ask about specifics in #raspberrypi channel
47[00:18:14] <yareckonirc> maybe hardware floating point or somehting
48[00:18:24] <yareckonirc> arm is funny that way
49[00:18:56] <nickgaw> good point can the xbox systems run linux??
50[00:19:27] <jelly> people have, in fact, managed to run linux on an xbox 360, yes.
51[00:19:51] <nickgaw> Can they be restored to their factory defaults later?
52[00:20:00] <rgwu> But it requires a physical hack to the motherboard I believe.
53[00:20:15] <jelly> who knows, that's a bit outside of the scope for this channel
54[00:20:45] <nickgaw> Can you buy raw debian based laptops ready to go?
61[00:25:25] <nickgaw> Is there a way to find out where the different hosts are for the different machines that debian uses for cross compiling all of their code as I can not find where to look?
62[00:26:07] <jelly> buildd machines are hosted in many different places
63[00:26:41] <jelly> nickgaw, in general Debian does NOT cross compile software, all packages are built natively
64[00:26:46] <annadane> doesn't really answer your question, but replaced-url
65[00:27:07] <nickgaw> So if I wanted a build machine like you can rent a normal server from a server farm like a x64 based system if I wanted an armel system could I rent one for a month or so?
74[00:29:32] <jelly> scaleway is the oldest provider for arm I think
75[00:29:36] <nickgaw> true but the systems debian use are nice and so I was wanting to find something like what they use so it is possible to rent something to test with right?
77[00:32:16] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
78[00:32:57] <nickgaw> Good to know as I might look at them. How does debian setup their systems for cross compilation like they do as looking in the documentation it does not help me or give me an e-mail address to write to?
79[00:33:21] <jelly> most compilation is native
80[00:33:21] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
81[00:33:43] <nickgaw> So they own their own hardware hosted in some data center?
82[00:33:48] <jelly> only bootstrapping a new arch requires cross compiling by necessity
83[00:34:07] <jelly> many buildds for weird arches are donated
84[00:34:25] <nickgaw> So they are all hosted in the same place right?
94[00:37:00] <nickgaw> true I meant my own set of compilation systems for my own projects?
95[00:37:07] <jelly> they are NOT for free use, they are for development of Debian
96[00:37:21] <nickgaw> yes I know that.
97[00:37:53] <nickgaw> I meant I would have to rent a server that was arm based or mips based to do my own work on?
98[00:37:57] <jelly> well you're asking many different different questions, if might be helpful to know what your actual goal is
99[00:38:49] <jelly> sure, to they things out on an actual arm, you need access to an actual arm
100[00:38:53] <jelly> to try* things
101[00:39:31] <jelly> be it renting or buying hw or asking someone nicely or becoming a DD
102[00:40:08] <nickgaw> ok I was wanting to test out how accessibility software like brltty and other tools compile on different systems as I myself am totally blind and was wanting to find out how well tools like these compile and run as there are ways to virtualize a Braille display over the network to make it run on a remote system and then it would appear locally on my own system when it was running on the remote system.
106[00:41:50] <nickgaw> I know it can be done threw virtual machines so it could probably be done over the internet right like you can virtualize hardware connectivity?
108[00:42:02] <jelly> brltty is open source but I think there's a kernel component as well used as drivers for actual hardware?
109[00:42:37] <jelly> since your output device is a tty, I suspect you might just run it locally and use ssh to connect to any remote system
110[00:43:00] <nickgaw> speakup is the kernel screen reader that I use but I think sometimes orca is much better at different things when it comes to the GUI.
112[00:43:37] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
113[00:43:41] <nickgaw> So renting different systems to test out compilation might not be the best thing to do then?
114[00:44:13] <jelly> the description says: ... The daemon process listens for incoming TCP/IP connections on a certain port
115[00:44:28] <nickgaw> yes
116[00:45:12] <jelly> so if you wanted to use brltty enabled clients on remote systems, you might need to merely tunnel their tcp connection with ssh's RemoteForward (-R option)
117[00:45:20] <nickgaw> If most software can be built on a x64 based system using configure and make then should it be able to be built on an arm system?
118[00:45:42] <jelly> that's pretty much how it's done
123[00:47:02] <jelly> open source just makes it easier to try fixing them
124[00:47:27] <nickgaw> yes but sometimes I have heard about software that is open source that won't compile on hardware because of differences in the way that hardware works.
140[00:52:43] <jelly> you're asking "why os one kernel better than the other"
141[00:52:50] <mutante> nickgaw: every couple years i go and ask when is GNU finally ready and i don't need Linux anymore.. but so far it's not there :p
142[00:53:18] <nickgaw> So what are you saying is I should not wait?
143[00:53:41] <nickgaw> What is different in the way a user interacts with the hurd?
144[00:54:19] <jelly> and that's really a philosophical question; depends on what you want from a kernel. If it's just basic POSIX or Unix capabilities, Linux or any BSD will do, so then you pick the one based on hardware support for example
167[01:00:06] <jelly> so it kind of is, and kind of isn't
168[01:00:08] <jelly> !hurd
169[01:00:09] <dpkg> GNU Hurd (<HIRD> of Unix-Replacing Daemons) is a POSIX-compatible collection of servers which run on the Mach microkernel. It is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. replaced-url
174[01:01:38] <sney> I've been using debian for around 20 years and I've never tried the hurd port. most people here probably haven't either. and since this is a support channel... it's technically on-topic but you might not get any useful responses
175[01:02:03] <sney> tbh, -offtopic might even be best, since it's mostly old-nerd-tech-speculation material
179[01:02:24] <dpkg> nickgaw: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
180[01:02:46] <sney> !kfreebsd
181[01:02:46] <dpkg> Debian GNU/kFreeBSD is a port that consists of GNU userland using the GNU C library on top of FreeBSD's kernel, coupled with the regular Debian package set. kfreebsd-amd64 and kfreebsd-i386 are not official release architectures since Debian 8 "Jessie" due to quality concerns. replaced-url
182[01:02:47] <jelly> nickgaw, you can do eg.: /msg dpkg kfreebsd
183[01:03:02] <jelly> a /msg won't pollute the public channel
184[01:03:22] <sney> ^ this, I have pinned tabs open with both dpkg and judd
185[01:04:15] <nickgaw> judd never responds to any messages.
186[01:04:44] <sney> judd seems buggy on freenode in general. I message both bots on oftc mainly
187[01:04:52] <annadane> judd only responds if you type something it knows, although yeah what sney said
188[01:05:03] <annadane> . dpkg will tell you if you're trying to ask it something it doesn't know
189[01:05:22] <annadane> dpkg, abcdef
190[01:05:22] <dpkg> rumour has it, abcdef is foo
191[01:05:28] <nickgaw> Who runs both bots and what code bases are they?
192[01:05:32] <annadane> ...not what i was expecting, but okay
193[01:05:44] <annadane> dondelelcaro runs dpkg and themill runs judd, AFAIK
194[01:05:53] <sney> judd is a supybot so it responds to standard supybot stuff like help and list, along with the stuff it's actually supposed to do, like version and info and kernels
195[01:06:07] <jelly> !judd
196[01:06:07] <dpkg> judd is a window into the Ultimate Debian Database (ask me about <udd>). Judd can look up package, PCI ID and kernel config information. See replaced-url
197[01:06:21] <jelly> dpkg, factinfo abcdef
198[01:06:21] <dpkg> abcdef -- created by mgoetze <mgoetze@lexikon.cjd-braunschweig.de> at Sun Mar 10 02:52:42 2002 (6697 days); it has been requested 2 times, last by annadane, 59s ago.
199[01:06:33] <sney> I believe dpkg is an infobot but it's probably pretty specialized by now since it's lived in this jungle for over a decade
200[01:06:34] <jelly> dpkg, forget abcdef
201[01:06:35] <dpkg> jelly: i forgot abcdef
202[01:06:44] <avu> created 18 years ago and only requested twice, not bad
203[01:06:53] <annadane> judd, abcdef
204[01:06:55] <annadane> ...
205[01:06:57] <annadane> dpkg, abcdef
206[01:06:57] <dpkg> annadane: have you tried replaced-url
251[01:21:14] <nickgaw> If I wish to contact dpkgs owner for something how would I go about doing that?
252[01:22:02] <avu> nickgaw: I'd bring it up here first, it's likely that you don't really need to bother the author but that somebody else here can help you
253[01:22:48] <nickgaw> My question is is the raw dpkg database and bot source code around for people to download to look at should they wish?
267[01:34:33] <nickgaw> Is xz the highest compression level or is something better out there like with lzma2 is that the best over all or should I look at something else for the smallest compression possible?
268[01:35:04] <annadane> just don't let gavin belson steal your ideas
269[01:35:42] <Unit193> xz is pretty much as high compression as you can get, though of course also the slowest. zst is interesting too though.
270[01:36:14] <abrotman> There are many websites that compare gz/bzip/xz/etc
271[01:36:48] <nickgaw> Is zst better I am looking for the highest compression even if it is slow?
430[05:31:28] <paradizelost> as soon as i upgraded to buster, i have freeipa-client
431[05:31:57] <sevenninety> I have a new MB with realtek 8125 (rtl8125) ethernet. The driver from realtek shows all available speeds but I can only get it to work at 100MB. Anyone have similar device?
448[05:58:09] <nvz> sevenninety: you can get a 5.x kernel and new firmware from backports
449[05:58:37] <nvz> sevenninety: you may also wanna check the bios/efi and make sure there isnt an option in there that limits it
450[06:01:03] <nvz> ah that device isnt all that new it seems.. there are drivers on their site dated as far back as 2007
451[06:01:33] <nvz> your issue may be external
452[06:01:51] <nvz> i.e. what you have it hooked to and what kinda cable you're using
453[06:02:43] <sevenninety> nvz i have tried several cables. I have two other machines running 1000MB. I try changnig with ethtool and it just kills the connection.
454[06:03:06] <nvz> wouldnt hurt to try a new kernel and firmware
455[06:03:09] <sevenninety> I am running 5.7 kern.
456[06:03:21] <nvz> 5.7? o.O
457[06:03:28] <nvz> from where?
458[06:03:53] <sevenninety> running debian packaged from testing
459[06:04:03] <nvz> @.@
460[06:04:45] <sevenninety> no 8125 in the modules so using the driver from realtek.
461[06:06:03] <sevenninety> i will check the bios. running firmware from buster
462[06:06:35] <nvz> why.. ... .... would you be runnign firmware from buster and a kernel from testing?
463[06:07:49] <sevenninety> it did not make a difference
468[06:10:00] <sevenninety> still shows 100Mb/s but has all modes supported and advertised. I guess it could still be cabling. i will take one from a working 1000MB connection and see.
469[06:10:21] *** Quits: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
664[10:20:43] <pragomer> hi. is it possible to configure "nano" so that it automatically breaks lines (only visually.. on screen), whenever the window size is changed?
715[11:19:43] <dpkg> Packages that end in '*-dbgsym' contain the symbols required for debugging executables and libraries. The dbgsym packages are automatically generated packages that are in a separate archive; add a line like "deb replaced-url
716[11:20:36] <nvz> Unit193: are those not on p.d.o or UDD?
717[11:21:02] <nvz> cause I dont see any packages for firefox-esr-dbgsym
719[11:21:29] * nvz is too tired to dig much deeper
720[11:21:32] <Unit193> Not really, no. Technically they could not exist, but they're likely in the debug repo.
721[11:22:10] <Unit193> One doesn't list them in d/control either, they're fully automatic unless no binary files, already stripped, or specifically disabled.
722[11:22:33] <nvz> yeah a user compilig a browser would be a nightmare
730[11:26:44] <pixan> i actually don't know what to expect from these terms in source.list
731[11:26:45] <nvz> I was going to suggest going to OFTC to more likely find some DD/DMs before you'd popped in.. cause I figured this was a question better answered by someone who knew what changed with the -dbg packages
732[11:26:53] <Unit193> See also: find-dbgsym-packages from debian-goodies.
733[11:27:19] <Unit193> nvz: I'm buzzing out about now anyway.
734[11:27:39] <pixan> is it a site?
735[11:27:45] <Unit193> nvz: But basically, it was decided debug packages are useful, but not used enough to clutter all the mirrors.
736[11:28:04] <Unit193> pixan: debian-goodies is a package, find-dbgsym-packages is a script contained in said package.
740[11:32:00] <xormor> "Package linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64 is not available, but is referred to by another package."
741[11:32:32] <xormor> "However the following packages replace it: linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64-unsigned"
742[11:32:35] <xormor> why?
743[11:33:09] <pixan> dbgsym depends 68.7.0 but 68.10.0 is installed
744[11:33:17] <xormor> anyone else with the same problem? I used proposed-updates, but I got another sources.list generator output to put into /etc/apt/sources.list and now there seems to be no problem.
745[11:33:53] <xormor> I already installed the unsigned version, but why is there no normally signed version?
780[12:10:02] *** Quits: dselect (~dselect@replaced-ip) (Quit: ouch... that hurt)
781[12:10:50] <wuseman> Hey, in one of my tools I use: xargs --show-limits -s 1 2>&1|grep -i "parallelism"|awk '{print $8}' for grep max-procs, I got a issue report on git that claims this command does not work on his debian setup with kernel 4.10 - I doubt this is a debian issue, but someone can be nice and just confirm if this command works on your debian install?
784[12:13:03] <wuseman> He got plasma-desktop and using konsole also, if that matters. Works on my gentoo setup and android device and also on a kubuntu 20.20 livecd I booted.
803[12:29:43] <wuseman> How is this possible, he also using swedish layout and gets no output. How is this possible, only on debian this command does not work it seems
804[12:29:52] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
805[12:30:06] <wuseman> Anyone know how solve this in debian, and what causes this on only debian systems it seems?
806[12:30:15] <blurkis> Perhaps do the script a bit more verbose with debuginfo so you can tell what goes wrong?
807[12:30:32] <blurkis> Giving no output its hard to say what went wrong,
826[12:39:28] <wuseman> Works on 4.4.0-170-generic #199-Ubuntu SMP Thu Nov 14 01:45:04 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux aswell it seems. How is this possible and how do you grep stderr in debian?
858[13:20:05] <GNU\colossus> mikunos, 3rd party repos are not supported in this channel. at any rate, did you run "sudo apt-get update" before you tried to install a package via "apt-get install"?
859[13:20:35] <mikunos> yes I have updated the repos
860[13:21:16] <mikunos> and then I have tried to install the php packages
877[13:40:29] <reintegrated> Hey all, I have a webcam, lsusb reports it as: "ID 0c45:627b Microdia PC Camera (SN9C201 + OV7660)" - all my machines are Debian 10 and mostly headless, the camera is detected and works well, I'm using ffmpeg to stream it to another machine over UDP. The problem is, when connecting it to my main server (where I want it to live after testing is completed), the following shows up on the terminal and in dmesg every few se
878[13:40:29] <reintegrated> 0x 7-2:1.0: URB error -84, resubmitting" - I've found very little on Google except for the understanding that URB is some sort of USB registry. I'm very confused as this error only shows up on my main server, despite it working, and despite all machines tested on running Debian 10 and fully up-to-date.
879[13:40:35] <reintegrated> Any takers for an assist? :)
881[13:41:20] <reintegrated> Update: this error does appear on the other machines too, however nowhere near as frequently... and it works! I don't understand.
902[14:15:39] *** Quits: bestucan (~bestucan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
903[14:15:53] <reintegrated> Further update: Having tested more closely, even though it's not every few seconds like on my server, this error also appears in dmesg about once every minute on my other machines. I'm tempted to ignore it as the camera works, but it's just really messy having the logs fill up with this error, ideally I'd like to fix it, or even just supress it the errors somehow?
920[14:30:49] <LtL> reintegrated: this may stop it, at least from printing to logs but maye from your console/terminal also. in /etc/rsyslog.conf put :msg, contains, "USB" stop
927[14:33:49] <untakenstupidnic> I have software that is trivially simple to build and has been ported to multiple OSes and distros. Would someone make a .orig.tar.gz for it and take it to the repos?
1010[15:30:21] <LtL> reintegrated: when you google 'gspca_sn9c20x' there are some hits, fixing the error is always best :)
1011[15:30:30] <reintegrated> Ddin't see the second entry! Have updated and restarted rsyslog but it's still coming up... I'm not convinced rsyslog is retarting correctly though, so I'm going to bounce the server again.
1012[15:31:11] <reintegrated> Yeah I would obviously prefer to fix the error, but couldn't find anything specific - I'll take another look though, I was mainly searching for the error message not the source.
1013[15:31:40] <LtL> reintegrated: is it in syslog or just dmesg? if i recall, that hack stopped all logging including the kernel buffer
1032[15:42:55] <reintegrated> LtL: Sorry, my mistake, it *was* in syslog - but the options we entered in the .conf file seems to be stopping it getting logged now - but only is syslog, it's still showing up in dmesg
1039[15:46:14] <reintegrated> Again, I would prefer to fix the issue obviously, but googling gspca_sn9c20x brings up lots of issues, but nothing relating to URB errors that I can see.
1051[15:52:03] <reintegrated> Will have to continue looking for a fix then I guess.
1052[15:52:17] <reintegrated> Or just bin this webcam and get a better one. lol
1053[15:52:41] <LtL> reintegrated: maybe a newer kernel might stop that, but that's a slight hassle to do considering the the message, as long as the device works.
1054[15:53:06] <reintegrated> LtL: Yeah my thoughts exactly. Not worth the hassle.
1055[15:53:29] <reintegrated> Thanks for the help though, at least I know how to prevent stuff from filling my logs now, I call that a win. :)
1056[15:53:47] <LtL> reintegrated: outstanding, happy to help
1061[15:59:58] *** Quits: Acheron (~Acheron@replaced-ip) (Quit: Good Bye and Good Luck)
1062[16:00:49] <LtL> reintegrated: if it prints on the screen, a fix would be redirect the error to /dev/null but i'm not sure where to accomplish that
1140[17:40:47] <annadane> what i should have said is "lsmod is a tool i hadn't heard of being deprecated before so it's unlikely to happen in testing" but linking the man page also works
1146[17:44:52] <tinkertiger> annadane: My problem is that it wasn't automagically installed when I moved to testing and I wasn't finding it in the listing.
1171[18:09:11] <RhineDevil> What's the best way to check if there's a mismatch between /var/lib/apt/lists/[...]_InRelease "Suite" value and this repo current "Suite" value?
1175[18:13:01] <LtL> RhineDevil: do you get a suite error using apt-get? i can't answer that question directly
1176[18:13:27] <jhutchins> I believe you can just delete the files and they will be replaced by apt update.
1177[18:14:00] <RhineDevil> LtL, I solved that problem, I'm currently pushing upstream fixes to lxc-templates repo and in some cases this becomes a problem
1178[18:14:01] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. When running apt update, does the list of urls it checks get longer the longer one goes between updates?
1179[18:14:28] <RhineDevil> Because it would be nice to detect if there's a mismatch
1202[18:23:12] *** Quits: luna (Lunateris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1203[18:23:15] <nvz> untakenstupidnic: well.. no.. there was a time many years ago when GWB was POTUS when they did a lame duck presidential challenge and issued a list of conditions that if any were met they'd give their stuff away for free until the end of the month, and when gas prices dropped below $3 they started giving away crossover 7 I think it was at the time
1204[18:23:41] <Lady_Aleena> LtL, I think so. I think I installed Jessie on the drive fresh, then dist-upgraded to stretch, then buster (in a short period of time).
1206[18:24:23] <nvz> I still have the crossover 7 stuff.. but I'm on crossover 17 these days.. it has a nice bit of wizardry and GUI that makes things real simple.. and its not that expensive (about $40) and is worth it in some cases
1207[18:24:25] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: not a problem, normal output.. its still checking for those updates still
1208[18:24:39] <Lady_Aleena> LtL, then I won't worry. Thank you.
1209[18:24:58] *** Joins: luna (Lunateris@replaced-ip)
1210[18:24:58] <LtL> Lady_Aleena: you're welcome
1211[18:26:19] <Lady_Aleena> I should update more often.
1226[18:32:17] <annadane> newer versions of firefox do that
1227[18:32:33] <annadane> they'll prevent you from visiting URLs if a firefox update (hence restart) is required
1228[18:32:36] <nulleip> I mean, which packages/config should I be looking that deal with svg for Debian? For example, in my firefox svg+xml stuff is pretty ugly
1229[18:32:41] <annadane> i assume you mean firefox latest and not esr
1230[18:33:08] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1231[18:33:19] <Lady_Aleena> annadane, I have 68.10.0esr (64-bit)
1232[18:33:42] <annadane> the debian package? hm, interesting that it should tell you
1233[18:34:13] <annadane> anyway, you *should* restart firefox after a firefox update
1234[18:34:19] <annadane> otherwise the changes won't take effect
1236[18:35:25] <Lady_Aleena> annadane, I know, but sometimes I'm working on something, and I don't want to lose my place, but that is a minor inconvenience.
1237[18:35:40] <nvz> I personally only ever seen firefox say to restart after installing plugins.. but that was ages ago.. I rarely use firefox other than for "apps" cause I find it easier to make icons with custom userChrome.css and profiles to launch things totally chromeless and make em look like apps.. I do that for netflix and such
1238[18:36:21] <nvz> browsers these days use db backends and dont really have issues with losing anything across restarts
1239[18:36:33] <nvz> everything you do is entered into a db that can easily be restored
1243[18:37:00] <nvz> both chromium and firefox-esr will say upon relaunch something like do you want to restore your last session?
1244[18:38:06] <nvz> since all your tabs and form data and crap is put into something like an sqlite database as you do it, doesnt matter if it crashes or was manually restarted, the browser has it all recorded for recovery
1246[18:38:52] <LtL> there was a firefox-esr update very recently, that would prompt a restart had it been running.
1247[18:39:16] <nlpqda> Unknow issue is going on my debian buster box, 1) after every reboot I must manually modprobe snd-hda-intel 2) everytime plug in/out headset the sound goes mute until I #alsamixer > unmute Speaker! can anyone recommend what to do other than reinstalling OS?
1248[18:40:01] <nlpqda> 2nd issue seems to becaused by the 1st driving thing
1249[18:40:09] <nlpqda> driver*
1250[18:42:56] <tinkertiger> 'lsmod' showed up but unfortunately didn't help me solve my isue! hahaha
1251[18:44:48] <nvz> nlpqda: (apt policy;systemctl status alsa-restore;systemctl status alsa-state;lsmod;pkexec journalctl -k)|nc termbin.com 9999
1252[18:44:55] *** Quits: soul-d (~name@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1264[18:49:08] <nvz> this is something that definately should not happen... those commands should reveal an issue
1265[18:51:46] <nvz> if you'd like to review the log first or need explaination of the commands thats fine, but without further information we can't really guess at such an issue
1266[18:52:11] *** Quits: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1269[18:58:29] <jhutchins> nlpqda: Which release are you on?
1270[18:58:57] <nvz> jhutchins: the stated claim is buster.. which is why I asked for more information
1271[18:59:26] <jhutchins> Oh, yeah, right there, first line.
1272[18:59:35] <nvz> I think I covered most bases aside from blacklisting, but that should be somewhat apparent from the information I've requested none the less
1283[19:03:41] <nlpqda> nvz: yeah they will be answreed + a lot more information you're not authorized to know.
1284[19:04:15] <nvz> only some mac addresses and such.. if you wanna play a million questions thats fine too.. but I personally dont have the time for it right this minute
1285[19:04:37] <nvz> I have proposed a lot of things to try address this.. creating a comprehensive support system that among other things sterilizes such logs
1286[19:04:44] <nvz> but as of now we dont have any such things
1287[19:05:12] <Lady_Aleena> What command gets me my debian version?
1288[19:05:27] <nvz> chances are if you can't fix an issue like this, you are at greater risk from just owning and using a computer than the trivial bits of info the kernel spits out
1289[19:05:38] <nlpqda> I maybe newbie but I'm not stupid to give you access to my logs without even telling me that's what you're to do ..and I believe that is illegel and should mind your commands
1291[19:06:07] <nvz> yes, I understand your concerns.. and as I said I could explain what the commands do if you like
1292[19:06:10] <Lady_Aleena> And I mean more than Debian 10 (buster).
1293[19:06:14] <nvz> hell Id even run it myself and post mine here
1294[19:06:54] *** Quits: loptr (~loptr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1295[19:09:26] <nvz> apt policy is only going to show us what repositories you have configured and the packages you've pinned if any, this helps us assure you're not using anything that may complicate the issue like 3rd party packages or misconfigured apt sources.. so we can reproduce the issue. the systemctl commands merely indicate if the two alsa services started and when, this tells us if the stuff that should be doing this
1296[19:09:32] <nvz> automatically is working, the lsmod merely shows what drivers you have loaded which tells us if you may have a conflicting driver, the journalctl -k outputs your kernels boot messages so we can see what exactly the kernel did at boot and if it complained about anything that would indicate why it didnt load this stuff automatically.. this is the bit that would contain potentially sensitive information but
1297[19:09:38] <nvz> mostly only things like MAC addresses which are hardware level and not things that would be useful attack vectors over the internet
1302[19:10:45] <nvz> is what the output looks like from the system I'm on rigt now.. and I have little concern about sharing that information
1303[19:11:11] <nvz> google already knows far more than that about me
1304[19:12:40] <Lady_Aleena> nlpqda, why are you bulking at showing your logs? Logs are the best way for them to help you with your problems.
1305[19:13:17] <nvz> understandably concerned with the state of affairs these days.. which is why among my many proposals was sterilization of such log information
1311[19:15:03] <nvz> its a silly concern for situations like this, where a user isnt skilled enough to fix a problem, yet thinks their privacy/security is at risk (relatively signficant risk) compared to all the other shit they don't know about that collects info on them
1312[19:15:20] <nvz> but one that could be addressed none the less
1313[19:16:42] <nvz> it'd take hours for me to ask all the questions and get all the answers straight in my head
1317[19:18:31] <nvz> and a user that is too inexperienced to evalutate the threat vectors and such of such information, isn't going to be able to understand it enough to do it properly and could have us just running around in circles having missed something painfully obvious
1323[19:20:48] <Lady_Aleena> I have a feeling my system is limping along most of the time with all the mixed up crap I have on it.
1324[19:21:04] <nvz> I am not skilled enough to pull off my ambitious ideas for an integrated support system that addresses all these issues by myself, and its not getting much steam.. and furthermore such people too inexperienced to trust us anyhow, whos to say they'd even trust such a system either
1325[19:21:26] <nvz> they're probably the kinds of people who wont send crash reports for apps that already do such things like sterilizing information
1326[19:22:09] <Lady_Aleena> I'd love for my system to be optimal, but with all the crap that is all mixed up, I doubt it will ever happen.
1327[19:23:05] <Lady_Aleena> What is the most common log by the way?
1329[19:23:16] <nvz> I dont think there is such a thing
1330[19:23:29] <nvz> journalctl kinda mashes most of it together
1331[19:23:37] <nvz> if you just run plain ol journalctl
1332[19:23:55] <nvz> but thats too much information for most people to parse and too much to fit in termbin or such
1333[19:24:13] <nvz> journalctl -k is only the kernel messages from boot
1334[19:24:30] <nvz> roughly equiv to the old /var/log/dmesg
1335[19:24:41] <Lady_Aleena> Okay, what reader does journalctl and how do I get to the end quickly?
1336[19:25:01] <nvz> I think the -e option is what scrolls to the end automatically
1337[19:25:12] <nvz> I'm still learning the whole systemd crap :P
1338[19:25:29] <LtL> journalctl -f follows it starting at the end, iirc
1339[19:25:43] <nvz> often the errors say to use -xe
1340[19:26:39] <nvz> most the logs are still there in the traditional format, but /var/log/dmesg that used to be created at boot by /etc/init.d/bootmisc.sh is no longer there
1341[19:26:51] <nvz> afaik journalctl -k is the only way to get that anymore
1359[19:30:43] <nvz> a log sterilizer I could probably manage on my own.. you'd need a lot of regex and for it to compile a database of sorts of all matching information so that it conisistently sterilized every occurance of the same match
1360[19:31:18] <nvz> cause you cant just blank out the info.. you'd need to still be able to figure out if stuff is as it should be
1361[19:31:36] <nvz> but you could replace it with generic information
1370[19:35:01] <nvz> but doing so consistently.. every time it finds a match it needs to record the ACTUAL information so every time THAT SPECIFIC match occurs it sterilizes it with the same generic string
1371[19:35:37] <libertycity> Hello, I wanted to comment on several things
1372[19:35:44] *** Quits: voidSurfr (~todd_dsm@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1373[19:35:48] <nvz> everytime 192.168.1.1 comes up it needs to be the same 1.2.3.4 and such
1374[19:35:54] <Lady_Aleena> libertycity, you don't have to ask to comment, just comment. 8)
1375[19:37:13] <Lady_Aleena> Everyone should feel free to barge in as they will unless it is trolling, then no.
1376[19:37:32] <libertycity> Lady_Aleena, Thank you
1377[19:37:35] * Lady_Aleena barges in all the time.
1378[19:38:09] <Lady_Aleena> nvz, have fun with that. 8)
1379[19:38:31] <libertycity> I have tried to speak this in # debian-es, but nobody speaks there. Nice to see a chat alive, like this one
1380[19:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1154
1381[19:39:03] <Lady_Aleena> I've been playing with Perl::Critic lately, and my code is awful according to it.
1390[19:41:21] <libertycity> First of all, comment that there is an error in the chromium package of the repositories, due to which, the browser window closes suddenly. It happens very often, every hour or every several hours
1391[19:42:11] <libertycity> happened to me first in Debian Stable with XFCE, a few days or a few weeks ago. Currently this error still occurs to me, being on Debian Testing with GNOME
1392[19:43:12] <nvz> yes I've had the issue on my sid box too.. I haven't seen it on buster yet.. but I also havent updated recently
1393[19:43:21] <nvz> its quite annoying
1394[19:43:40] <libertycity> I was surprised to see that in Testing the error was still
1395[19:46:00] <libertycity> nvz, so is it reported?
1396[19:47:19] <nvz> I dont know the status of it to be honest.. since I havent experienced the issue on my stable box I havent looked into it
1397[19:47:40] <nvz> I do however know many people I talk to regularly are also aware of it so I'd assume so, yes.
1400[19:49:38] <nvz> one of the issues that annoys me is that with our recent changes to how we handle things like browsers, allowing them to update more frequently even in stable, we are also often removing old packages from the repos which makes it harder to just roll back when something like this happens
1401[19:49:40] <libertycity> nvz, Okay. Thanks for the info
1402[19:50:26] <nvz> all I can really say is that if it concerns you, apt update, apt upgrade, and check the bts, file a bug if need be
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1404[19:54:31] <libertycity> I have no experience with reporting errors, I have never done it, really. So I wanted to comment here
1405[19:56:20] <libertycity> I imagine that it is a common mistake for most users, and that some have already reported it
1406[19:56:46] <libertycity> Another thing I wanted to comment on is the following
1407[19:57:01] <nvz> well, there is the package reportbug which kind of walks you through the process of reporting errors
1416[20:02:03] <nvz> I personally don't like reportbug at all.. but it may help you, as it steps you through the process which includes looking up existing bugs, and showing you a template of what information you should provide and such
1417[20:02:19] <nvz> it also fills in some of the more trivial information like the proper package name and version for you
1422[20:04:53] <libertycity> The other issue: since there is no official Google Drive client for Linux, I am trying to create an automatic synchronization system between my / home and "my drive" of Google Drive
1427[20:07:26] <pixan> i have added debug-debian bullseye to sources.list in order to install firefox-esr-dbgsym. the apt command says unmet dependencies on firefox-esr-dbgsym : Depends: firefox-esr (= 68.10.0esr-1) but 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1 is to be installed
1432[20:08:29] <libertycity> So that I can, on the one hand, make the connection with "Online Accounts" to my "Drive", and on the other hand, make the synchronization between one route and another
1434[20:10:20] <libertycity> the problem is that to mount the Google Drive unit, it is done from the "Files" browser, with a marker added to it. And what I would like to know is the command used by that marker, to be able to launch it and do the assembly from the terminal
1436[20:11:15] <nvz> libertycity: yes well that is a problem with such things, as they use gvfsd typically, which is not visible outside things like GNOME
1437[20:11:39] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1439[20:13:02] <nvz> libertycity: if in fact this uses gvfs, the package gvfs-fuse may be of use as it provides a FUSE (Filesystem in User-Space) driver to mount gvfs volumes like normal disks
1440[20:14:43] <pixan> is there better way to ask this or better keywords to STFW?
1442[20:15:31] <nvz> pixan: the support channel for bullseye and sid is on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net) and is called #debian-next for what its worth. Idk what to suggest to you other than try installing it with an --ignore-depends-version type thing
1446[20:16:25] <nvz> seems to me like this was just packaged incorrectly (its likely done automatically) or you're using the wrong repo/package for your system..
1451[20:17:17] <nvz> either way the automatic creation of and use of debug packages is something Debian Developers and Debian Maintainers would likely be more familiar with than debian users.. and you're more likely to find DM/DD on OFTC than here
1452[20:17:28] <nvz> as OFTC is the official irc network of Debian
1454[20:17:47] <libertycity> nvz, Yes, but that way I wouldn't even know where to start. What I wanted was to be able to use the "online accounts" feature included in the repositories. I was looking at other packages for the same purpose (mount Google Drive on Linux), and they all forced to add third-party repositories, something I don't want
1455[20:17:49] <pixan> DMDD ?
1456[20:18:24] <pixan> oh i just saw above
1457[20:18:57] <pixan> thanks i will down that road
1459[20:19:24] <nvz> channels like #debian-next, #debian-mentors and such on OFTC are far more likely to be frequented by actual members of the Debian Project who'd be more familiar with those things
1460[20:19:40] <nvz> libertycity: well you have already started by enabling google drive in GNOME
1461[20:19:49] <Admiral_Purr> pixan, is it safe to do that?
1462[20:20:06] <Admiral_Purr> Using Bullseye repos on Buster I mean
1463[20:20:15] <nvz> libertycity: I can perhaps try it in a vm and see if _I_ can do it then either explain it to you or give you a video
1470[20:25:06] <libertycity> nvz, I don't know if I would really be willing to do that test, but I would be very grateful to him since I have been trying this project for several weeks
1472[20:27:20] <libertycity> nvz, effectively I would already have Google Drive enabled in my Debian Gnome, mounting the unit with the click of a button. The next thing I need is that this assembly can be automated, and I imagine that the only way would be to do it from the terminal, although I am open to other simple suggestions to implement
1481[20:35:12] <nvz> libertycity: then your google drive would be available in your XDG_RUNTIME_DIR i.e. /run/user/1000/google-drive\:host\=gmail.com\,user\=yourname/
1482[20:35:33] <nvz> you could then perhaps link it somewhere else if you like
1484[20:37:40] <nvz> libertycity: you can type echo $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR in the terminal to see where your XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is then look under there for a gvfs/ dir and in there should be your google drive
1485[20:38:14] <nvz> libertycity: after installing gvfs-fuse that is.. and if you want, to make it easier you can use ln -s to create a symlink to it somewhere you can find it easier
1486[20:39:40] <nvz> gvfs-fuse really needs some documentation because its use isnt straight-forward
1487[20:39:51] <nvz> who'd think to look in that location for it :P
1488[20:40:29] <nvz> there is no readme or manpage or anything in the package
1495[20:45:12] <nvz> libertycity: the GNOME settings you configured to login to your google account should take care of that, and anything on gvfs will be automatically put there by gvfs-fuse in the $XDR_RUNTIME_DIR/gvfs/
1498[20:45:49] *** Quits: arunesh (~darunesh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1499[20:46:30] <libertycity> /run/user/1000/google-drive\:host\=gmail.com\,user\=yourname/ Indeed, this is the path that is created of my mounted Drive unit, when using the procedure included by "online accounts", when clicking on the marker created in the file explorer
1509[20:54:21] <nvz> but its not just the terminal that doesnt see gvfs, kodi and such cant see gvfs things either... gvfs-fuse is handy as hell, its just a bit rough around the edges
1510[20:54:37] <libertycity> nvz, the point is that this route is only available when the unit has been mounted
1511[20:55:08] <karlpinc> nvz: Does it not show because it's fuse/userspace?
1516[20:57:40] <nvz> the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is about as remote and foreign a place to most users as the depths of the windows registry would be to windows users
1517[20:58:53] <nvz> I can see why its done that way though.. to make it a standard that can be applied to all without overriding policies like the FHS or such, and without being b0rked by site-specific or distro-specific stuff
1519[20:59:53] <nvz> a tiny bit of documentation on the package and perhaps a helper program to create/maintain links or such wouldnt hurt
1520[21:00:31] <libertycity> karlpinc, "type findmnt" to see what's mounted. With this could you see the command executed to launch the Google Drive drive mount by Gnome "online accounts"?
1521[21:00:35] <nvz> it is however really handy and dead simple to use
1540[21:05:20] <nvz> its made for people with no damn experience that will do one thing at a time, and dont want to be bothered with tradional interfaces where stuff is just organized into a normal menu
1541[21:05:30] <libertycity> nvz, Do you mean that what I want is not easily within reach?
1542[21:05:35] <nvz> its painful as all hell to try tradionally compute in GNOME
1543[21:05:48] <nvz> libertycity: have you ever used a computer before? :D
1545[21:06:08] <nvz> nothing else out there works the way gnome does except maybe MacOS X
1546[21:06:34] <annadane> #makexfcethedefault
1547[21:06:54] <nvz> there are not just clean categories in a menu.. you don't just click Applications > Internet > Firefox.. you gotta go hunt for it all mashed in with everything else or use the search bar to find it
1552[21:07:19] <nvz> where it is on any GNOME system depends on how much crap is installed
1553[21:07:51] <nvz> and I dont wanna have to involve my keyboard to click a launcher icon by searching for a damn icon that should just be SOMEWHER _CONSISTENTLY_
1554[21:08:20] <nvz> trying to do anything in GNOME is just a headache to me
1555[21:08:52] <nvz> you simply could not pay me enough to have to use something so ridiculous on a daily basis.. I rather use Windows 3.11 in todays world than GNOME
1556[21:09:01] <libertycity> nvz, Thanks to the Gnome extensions, I have a classic menu, where all the applications appear sorted by categories.
1557[21:09:02] <libertycity> But I will tell you that my desktop has always been XFCE, until I find something I cannot do there, and I go up to GNOME
1558[21:09:40] <diogenes_> nvz, who forces you to use GNOME?
1559[21:09:51] <nvz> nobody other than users who need support for it :P
1560[21:10:12] <nvz> and I do it cause I care about Debian and its users..
1561[21:10:31] <nvz> even if they insist on using ridiculous stuff you gotta HACK to make it usable
1562[21:10:42] <diogenes_> bravo nvz you deserve a cookie :)
1563[21:11:19] <nvz> na, I deserve some pepto bismol.. I'd probably just regurgitate the cookie
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1565[21:13:39] <libertycity> nvz, I am an XFCE user normally, as I say.
1566[21:13:40] <libertycity> A few days ago I had to switch to Gnome, precisely because I could not configure "online accounts" in XFCE, despite the fact that there are articles where the procedure is indicated
1569[21:14:51] <nvz> libertycity: it may just be that the stable version of XFCE in Debian is before those features were implemented
1570[21:15:40] <nvz> GNOME has been around decades, XFCE is relatively young, it still has a long way to go before its as mature as GNOME or MATE
1571[21:15:56] <libertycity> nvz, However, I don't see anything wrong with Gnome, I like his approach. It takes great advantage of keyboard shortcuts. It is pleasing to the eye.
1572[21:15:56] <libertycity> I just end up going back to XFCE for resource consumption, from Gnome
1575[21:16:41] <nvz> libertycity: as you learn the inner workings of your Desktop Environment you can start mixing and matching the things you like and create a custom setup
1577[21:17:20] <nvz> problem is bloated DE like GNOME are becoming so integrated you are needing more and more components just to make certain things work
1578[21:17:51] *** Quits: freebench (~freebench@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1579[21:17:55] <nvz> but most the DE share common things like gvfs, dconf, etc..
1580[21:18:11] <nvz> they just implement their own session managers, configuration daemons, etc..
1599[21:39:38] <nvz> if they make you go through finding that settings app, navigating in there, signing in, only to not make it persistent thats just ignorant
1667[22:19:10] <libertycity> nvz, I do not understand. Would not it be enough to indicate the address of the mount point, when synchronizing? Example: /run/user/1000/gvfs/google-drive:host=gmail.com,user=my.email
1673[22:23:00] <libertycity> nvz, On the other hand, I do not know if you have verified that, once the Google Drive unit is mounted, when accessing it from the terminal, the names of the files and folders are different from how they appear in the browser (in google drive from the browser Web). This will affect something when syncing local folders on Google Drive? Is it a limitation imposed by Google?
1698[22:46:17] <libertycity> nvz, this does not produce any error in my terminal, and what it does is, first mount the drive (achieved thanks to you), and second change to the directory of the mounted drive
1702[22:50:28] <libertycity> nvz, Apart from simply shortening the text of the path, do you say it provides any more improvement? create problems working with full mount path, when syncing files?
1703[22:51:39] <libertycity> nvz, By the way, thank you very much for your help, it has been great to see how you have solved the problem of mounting the unit
1704[22:52:10] <Aebian> can someone point me in the right direction: I want my bluetooth speakers to connect using A2DP. However they alwatys connect with the headset profile and I then need to manually change it.
1706[22:54:43] <nvz> libertycity: no, its just about the path and not just the length but the fact that this google drive path contains special characters which could choak an improperly written command or script
1708[23:00:27] <libertycity> nvz, I get it. Okay, so I'll do it then using a symbolic link (I'll learn how to work with them before, since I barely have any experience with them on linux, unlike on windows). Thank you! It has been quite a job what you have done! :)
1731[23:28:35] <Gigglebyte> Trying to recover the username and password for a guests's computer but the line now says root@(none):/# What went wrong? Shouldn't there be a username there?
1732[23:29:23] <rudi_s> Gigglebyte: That's fine when you've booted with init=/bin/sh; the hostname is missing.