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• 14[00:09:59] <oxek> Is the bug "It rarely shows contents of current directory" desribed at replaced-url
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• 42[00:41:34] <Johann> just a joke
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• 57[00:49:59] <hyiltiz> I have ipv4 address from the Wifi router, but can only connect to sites thru ipv6 (ping mit.edu only goes thru ipv6, and traceroute shows only the router). Flushed DNS and even rebooted twice. None solved.
• 58[00:49:59] <hyiltiz> Happened (could be coincidence) while/after using Tor Browser.
• 59[00:49:59] <hyiltiz> System proxy settings are No Proxy. Any ideas?
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• 68[00:56:32] <RoyK> hyiltiz: ping -4
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• 81[01:09:34] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Hello, I'm trying to get proprietary AMD GPU drivers on Debian.
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• 83[01:10:08] <quadrathoch2> Thedarkb-Desktop and why?
• 84[01:10:34] <Thedarkb-Desktop> I'm having issues with game compatibility with the free drivers.
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• 86[01:12:45] <quadrathoch2> Thedarkb-Desktop and what gpu do you have?
• 87[01:13:26] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Client: HexChat 2.14.2 • OS: Debian 10.3 • CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 Six-Core Processor (1.37GHz) • Memory: Physical: 15.2 GiB Total (13.8 GiB Free) Swap: 15.6 GiB Total (15.6 GiB Free) • Storage: 220.4 GB / 367.3 GB (146.8 GB Free) • VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Pitcairn XT [Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] GeForce GTS 450 • Uptime: 1h 12m 58s
• 88[01:14:24] <quadrathoch2> that gpu shouldn't even have closed source drivers
• 89[01:14:27] <quadrathoch2> Thedarkb-Desktop
• 90[01:14:40] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Hm, really.
• 91[01:14:54] <Thedarkb-Desktop> I've got an issue with Source engine games freezing in the menu.
• 92[01:15:13] <Thedarkb-Desktop> I've got an R9 SFF card that doesn't do that, which is a bit odd.
• 93[01:15:14] <quadrathoch2> weird, as I have a 7770 that works perfectly fine
• 94[01:15:27] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Which packages do you have installed?
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• 96[01:16:46] <quadrathoch2> steam, mesa-vulkan-driver, mesa-vulkan-drivers:i386 and normal mesa stuff (because of winehq-staging) but can't remember which would be useful for steam Thedarkb-Desktop
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• 106[01:22:10] <tharkun> sney, jhutchins: Thanks you both had a little bit of truth on your statements. I finally found a way to configure it but I have yet to find out how to print from my laptop.
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• 109[01:25:14] <Thedarkb-Desktop> quadrathoch2, Installed those and rebooted, CS:GO is still black screening, unfortunately.
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• 111[01:26:35] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Oooh, it's segfaulting.
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• 113[01:27:00] <quadrathoch2> give me a sec, installing csgo Thedarkb-Desktop
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• 115[01:27:21] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Thank you :)
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• 117[01:27:36] <Thedarkb-Desktop> I think the segfault is libcurl related.
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• 120[01:30:38] <Thedarkb-Desktop> quadrathoch2, You won't believe this, but it's fixed.
• 121[01:30:48] <Thedarkb-Desktop> The CS:GO update fixed it.
• 122[01:30:58] <quadrathoch2> lol :)
• 123[01:31:07] <tharkun> sney, jhutchins: Working as a charm. I o you both some coffee when you are free and available. Thanks for your time and effort.
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• 126[01:31:57] <Thedarkb-Desktop> Thank you for the help.
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• 130[01:33:01] <JordiGH> If a new Firefox ESR gets released now, will it go into Debian stable or do we have to wait for another Debian release to get a new Firefox ESR?
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• 133[01:33:51] <quadrathoch2> JordiGH the last few times it was getting into stable after the last release of the old esr
• 134[01:35:06] <JordiGH> Well, I've got a bug on Firefox 68 that Mozilla won't fix.
• 135[01:35:22] <JordiGH> So I guess I'm either stuck doing my own backport or waiting, right?
• 136[01:35:35] <JordiGH> They think Firefox 68 is only used by "enterprises".
• 137[01:35:36] <quadrathoch2> JordiGH you could dl firefox directly from mozilla
• 138[01:36:13] <JordiGH> "dl firefox directly" is not why I use Debian.
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• 140[01:36:36] <JordiGH> I hate having binaries lying around that I forget where they came from and that apt/dpkg doesn't report upon.
• 141[01:36:52] <JordiGH> I guess I'll just do my own backport.
• 142[01:37:02] <quadrathoch2> JordiGH shrug so you would need to wait till debian pushes the newer version
• 143[01:37:10] <JordiGH> They don't want to fix the bug in the next ESR either, afaict.
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• 145[01:39:09] <quadrathoch2> JordiGH oO okay, what bug are we talking about?
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• 147[01:39:28] <JordiGH> Oh, wait, they do want to fix it in the newer ESR, I misread, sorry.
• 148[01:39:31] <JordiGH> replaced-url
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• 156[01:46:53] <quadrathoch2> JordiGH yeah it's weird imho to talk about 78 normal and 78esr oO.
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• 176[02:08:14] <dob1> someone recognize this resource monitor service replaced-url
• 177[02:08:34] <dob1> sorry for the OT
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• 182[02:13:32] <abrotman> dob1: I want to say cacti, but there
• 183[02:13:38] <abrotman> there are a few that look similar
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• 185[02:14:02] <abrotman> cacti.net if you want to look
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• 188[02:16:02] <dob1> abrotman, or mrtg
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• 190[02:16:24] <dob1> but it seems the one you suggested
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• 201[02:27:08] <ebisu> How do I add grub options in the installer boot
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• 212[02:49:28] <karlpinc> JordiGH: My understanding is that the debian security team gave up on trying to backport security fixes into a single stable debian firefox release and instead are going with whatever is ESR for firefox.
• 213[02:49:54] <JordiGH> Which can mean an ESR version jump from 68 to 78?
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• 215[02:54:51] <annadane> or whatever the next esr one is, yes; although debian doesn't use new esr versions as soon as they become available, they only switch when the current one becomes fully unsupported
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• 222[03:00:36] <RoyK> JordiGH: Debian is generally quite conservative and the maintainers usually choose to backport fixes instead of upgrading to a new version with all the bugs that come with it, and there are always some
• 223[03:01:25] <JordiGH> RoyK: Not for Firefox, backporting changes became unmanageable, especially since I think it's basically Mike doing all the work.
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• 225[03:01:44] <RoyK> JordiGH: oh
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• 227[03:01:57] <JordiGH> annadane: Sigh, I think Mozilla already thinks the current is unsupported because they won't backport my fix to it. I just hope Debian agrees it's unsupported.
• 228[03:01:58] <RoyK> JordiGH: thanks - didn't know that
• 229[03:02:15] <JordiGH> I guess I could do my own backport.
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• 235[03:17:57] <annadane> browsers suck :P chromium is breaking in debian, ff-esr is okay but has the limitations of esr and the new firefox has a bunch of dumb things like the address bar behavior
• 236[03:18:43] <dvs> address bar behavior?
• 237[03:19:47] <annadane> one click highlights the whole thing (yet doesn't put it into the paste buffer)
• 238[03:20:25] <dvs> Oh, that is a bit annoying. FF assumes that you want to enter a new address.
• 239[03:20:55] <JordiGH> I don't think I've ever been happy with a Firefox upgrade.
• 240[03:20:59] <somiaj> JordiGH: debian will eventually update to the newer esr (78 it seems) but they will once 68 support is fully dropped and there are know security bugs that are fixed in the new esr.
• 241[03:20:59] <JordiGH> At least not in the UI.
• 242[03:21:06] <JordiGH> Well, the awesomebar was indeed awesome.
• 243[03:21:25] <somiaj> there is often a 3month overlap between the new esr release and dropping support for the old one, and debian lags that based on security needs
• 244[03:21:28] <JordiGH> somiaj: Debian stable, right?
• 245[03:21:31] <somiaj> correct
• 246[03:21:55] <somiaj> but debian will only upgrade when security vulns require it (which happens with browsers all the time)
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• 2126[06:17:00] <brachamh> hey i was able to identify!
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• 2195[06:26:49] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o themill
• 2196[06:27:05] *** themill sets mode: +l 1400
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• 2200[06:27:27] <kreyren> > * Cannot join #debian (User limit reached)
• 2201[06:27:29] *** Joins: Nothing4You (N4Y@replaced-ip)
• 2202[06:27:33] <kreyren> ping themill assuming op
• 2203[06:27:48] <themill> it's clearly not a problem given that you just joined?
• 2204[06:28:09] <kreyren> themill, i had to wait for like 30 mins to be able to join O.o
• 2205[06:28:13] <Abrax> netsplit broke stuff
• 2206[06:28:21] <themill> welcome to splitnode
• 2207[06:28:29] <Abrax> that is all of irc though
• 2208[06:28:29] *** Joins: edk_ (e@replaced-ip)
• 2209[06:28:29] <Melody\Flygon> netsplits do that aye
• 2210[06:28:41] * kreyren is even more confused
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• 2212[06:28:55] <Melody\Flygon> any particular reason there's a bot on the join-throttle?
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• 2216[06:29:30] <themill> Melody\Flygon: same reason you have greylisting on email
• 2217[06:29:38] <themill> Not enough spammers on fire.
• 2218[06:29:58] <user4> spammers just call your house now
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• 2221[06:30:29] <Melody\Flygon> aye spammers are a bane
• 2222[06:31:15] <Melody\Flygon> Bot could probably use some netsplit detection netcode to take a different set of actions during a split
• 2223[06:31:16] <Melody\Flygon> XD
• 2224[06:31:59] <themill> It does but when there are several splits in a row it can't necessarily figure out when they are finished
• 2225[06:32:29] <Melody\Flygon> Oh? that was multiple splits then? Oof. musta been a hub drop
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• 2234[06:38:49] <bigMouthCommie> i turned on compiz in deb10 running xfce and it adds some cool features. but unfortunately if i want to stop using it, i lose my window decorations. how do i get them back, and is there a way to make tilda do transparency like the other terminal?
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• 2237[06:39:25] *** arunesh is now known as darunesh
• 2238[06:39:47] <user4> take some lsd
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• 2240[06:41:11] <bigMouthCommie> user4: on topic, please.
• 2241[06:41:39] <user4> sorry
• 2242[06:41:56] <bigMouthCommie> user4: /join #debian-offtopic
• 2243[06:42:07] <bigMouthCommie> y'know... for other discussions
• 2244[06:42:23] <user4> All good. thankyou for the warning
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• 2246[06:43:01] <bigMouthCommie> brb
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• 2286[07:26:17] <kreyren> Is there anything on debian that can't be done on gentoo/archlinux or exherbo linux? See replaced-url
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• 2306[07:54:04] <xvilka> Hi! I found also the bug in the latest HP PA-RISC debian port (10.0.0) - where do I report it? I get it's unofficial/discontinued, so is it the main bugtracker or something else?
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• 2446[10:03:47] <xvilka> Hi! I found also the bug in the latest HP PA-RISC debian port (10.0.0) - where do I report it? I get it's unofficial/discontinued, so is it the main bugtracker or something else?
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• 2454[10:15:56] <ratrace> !tell xvilka about bts
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• 2461[10:23:36] <dudzJobPlease> hi, Desperate man looking to be hired from Sydney/Australia for upwards of $23AUD/hour Full-Time, I live in the Sutherland Shire, 35 years old male, 110KG.
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• 2475[10:29:53] <RoyK> ratrace, xvilka: I don't think submitting a bug for that will help a lot replaced-url
• 2476[10:30:18] <RoyK> xvilka: is there really a debian 10 for pa-risc?
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• 2478[10:32:04] <EdePopede> that's the nearest thing i found replaced-url
• 2479[10:32:17] <EdePopede> looks like they're on 10.0 with debian
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• 2485[10:37:29] <KOLANICH> Hi. Please check python3-nacl and python3-cryptography. On Ubuntu 20.04 it says that they are built for python 3.7
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• 2488[10:40:57] <RoyK> hm… spam?
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• 2490[10:43:25] <EdePopede> maybe "did ubuntu break it or debian?"
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• 2493[10:45:39] <EdePopede> judd where are thou!
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• 2527[11:18:05] <xvilka> RoyK: yes, it's a thing
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• 2529[11:19:07] <xvilka> see e.g. replaced-url
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• 2550[11:44:30] <cusco> hello... what dev package provides "pg_encoding_to_char" ?
• 2551[11:44:57] <cusco> googling shows that should be libpq-dev
• 2552[11:45:00] <xvilka> pg usually means postgres
• 2553[11:45:15] <cusco> yes I need a postgres sql driver in asterisk...
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• 2556[11:53:16] <cusco> so I have installed libpq-dev and postgresql-server-dev-all but still not finding pg_encoding_to_char
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• 2793[13:45:26] <oxek> is it safe yet to use btrfs in debian stable for my home machine? No raid involved.
• 2794[13:45:48] <oxek> I currently use ext4 and am planning a new installation
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• 2799[13:56:26] <diogenes_> oxek, i personally don't recommend BTRFS for anything especially home use.
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• 2803[13:59:46] <oxek> diogenes_: can you tell me (very briefly if you want) your reasoning for it? I am looking to learn.
• 2804[14:01:45] <diogenes_> oxek, because i have a very sad experience with it, losing the date, getting the partition corrupted to the point of non recoverable and also, if you apply for any help with BTRFS related issues, you won't find any experts in it, RHEL even duped it long ago.
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• 2807[14:05:30] <oxek> yeah I guess that's fair
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• 2810[14:05:40] <oxek> so ext4 then?
• 2811[14:06:02] <diogenes_> oxek, i've never had a single issue with ext4.
• 2812[14:06:14] <diogenes_> so it's a swiss knife reliable.
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• 2814[14:06:31] <oxek> I've had issues with ext4 but they were all my own fault
• 2815[14:06:56] <diogenes_> then the issues were not with ext4 :)
• 2816[14:07:02] <oxek> indeed :)
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• 2822[14:14:21] <harski> I've had significan amount of trouble with trying to boot from btrfs partition
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• 2824[14:14:36] <harski> For data store it worked fine, but I don't use it anymore either
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• 2826[14:15:28] <harski> But fwiw, I heard Fedora 33 is considering makind btrfs the default filesystem
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• 2829[14:16:55] <quadrathoch2> I can only vouch for btrfs, but as I don't know the state of btrfs in 4.19, I didn't say anything. And as openSUSE is using it for years, sounds like it should also work on older kernels (within reasonable time)
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• 2834[14:19:11] <diogenes_> quadrathoch2, ask microchip_ about BTRFS in #suse :)
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• 2838[14:22:51] <oxek> yeah it always worries me that debian-stable uses an old kernel, and btrfs always has fixes in newer kernels
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• 2841[14:24:03] <oxek> I guess btrfs would probably not be for me anyway, because my setup is complicated - I use cryptsetup on ssd and I doubt btrfs has been tested a lot in this combination.
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• 2843[14:24:44] <oxek> plus I'd use subvolumes for /tmp /home /var and others which would make it even more esoteric and untested under btrfs
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• 2849[14:36:57] <numbie> how do i find out which tumblerd is keeping my usb mounted
• 2850[14:38:36] <numbie> nevermind
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• 2856[14:46:20] <quadrathoch2> oxek, idk, I have a similar setup, and working nice on fedora *shrug*
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• 2860[14:56:38] <oxek> quadrathoch2: fedora always uses the most up-to-date kernel though, compared to debian
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• 2863[14:58:49] <quadrathoch2> oxek that's why I said, idk how well 4.19 works. but you could theoretically still install the backports kernel
• 2864[14:59:08] <quadrathoch2> and that's why I didn't say anything for using btrfs
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• 2875[15:10:11] <IvI4x> VLC, MPV shut down with 'segmentation error' when starting videos, and steam does the same when it's supposed to show its login screen
• 2876[15:10:23] <IvI4x> I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting with so little to go on
• 2877[15:10:27] <IvI4x> any tips?
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• 2880[15:11:03] <b1ack0p> IvI4x: while streaming video url?
• 2881[15:11:17] <IvI4x> no, local files
• 2882[15:11:28] <IvI4x> firefox streams videos fine
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• 2888[15:12:23] <b1ack0p> let me test on mine
• 2889[15:12:45] <b1ack0p> my versions are :
• 2890[15:12:47] <b1ack0p> mpv 0.29.1
• 2891[15:13:02] <b1ack0p> VLC media player 3.0.11
• 2892[15:13:57] <IvI4x> well since 3 different programs are having issues, I'm guessing there's an issue with my X server or graphics drivers, and not the programs themselves
• 2893[15:14:25] <IvI4x> apt show mpv
• 2894[15:14:29] <IvI4x> lol, sorry
• 2895[15:14:53] <b1ack0p> both playing well
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• 2897[15:15:58] <b1ack0p> maybe you remove mpv vlc and reinstall them?
• 2898[15:16:10] <b1ack0p> check if you are getting any error on systemd logs or dmesg ?
• 2899[15:16:39] <IvI4x> will do
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• 2902[15:17:19] <b1ack0p> only issue i have is with youtube-dl
• 2903[15:17:34] <b1ack0p> debian install version is 2019 something which is not up to date
• 2904[15:17:55] <b1ack0p> and it doesnt let me update which is not allowed by distro
• 2905[15:18:35] <IvI4x> I started having issues with youtube-dl, but now more or less everything isn't working. I'm pretty sure it's on my computer though since I've installed a bunch of stuff I don't really understand
• 2906[15:18:41] <b1ack0p> oh it shows up to date now :O
• 2907[15:18:50] <b1ack0p> youtube-dl is up-to-date (2020.06.16.1)
• 2908[15:18:55] <b1ack0p> when and how did it updated?
• 2909[15:19:01] <b1ack0p> yesterday i was getting error
• 2910[15:19:10] <IvI4x> lol, computer magic
• 2911[15:19:20] <b1ack0p> -U command worked this time :p
• 2912[15:23:04] <IvI4x> so /var/log/syslog does give a bit more info on the segfault
• 2913[15:23:14] <IvI4x> Jul 10 15:21:39 debianLaptop kernel: [11672.687536] mpv/vo[13763]: segfault at 24 ip 00007f193ec41ecb sp 00007f1945de1b80 error 6 in iris_dri.so[7f193e158000+e13000]
• 2914[15:23:34] <IvI4x> Jul 10 15:21:39 debianLaptop kernel: [11672.687542] Code:
• 2915[15:23:41] <IvI4x> and then lots of hex
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• 2918[15:25:24] <IvI4x> think I have to start a C++ debugger to figure out what's happening. Wonder if I can do that when I don't even know what program is having a stroke
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• 2920[15:25:37] <b1ack0p> maybe just mpv corrupted
• 2921[15:25:38] <IvI4x> maybe it's time to nuke&pave again
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• 2923[15:25:45] <b1ack0p> remove it and reinstall maybe
• 2924[15:25:53] <mvaenskae> i have also been getting a rather troublesome amount of segfaults but with chromium -- they didn't appear until the day i upgrades ffmpeg and co yesterday
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• 2927[15:26:53] <mvaenskae> not sure if this is related to the issues directly but i saw some things related to websites such as youtube elevating the issues
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• 2938[15:27:42] <b1ack0p> how can i change this to 480p ? ytdl-format=18/hls-480-0/hls-380-0/480p/http-360p/best
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• 2940[15:27:53] <b1ack0p> default
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• 3010[16:17:26] <no_gravity> What is a good way to wget a zip and unzip it in one go, so only the unzipped version touches the disk?
• 3011[16:17:57] * no_gravity tries "wget -O - <url> | unzip" .. fingers crossed ...
• 3012[16:18:15] <no_gravity> Fail :)
• 3013[16:19:48] <nkuttler> unzip -
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• 3015[16:20:48] <no_gravity> nkuttler: Hmm.. that does not work either
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• 3018[16:22:06] <karlpinc> no_gravity: What's the error?
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• 3020[16:22:52] <no_gravity> karlpinc: Cannot write to ‘-’ (Success)
• 3021[16:23:12] <no_gravity> karlpinc: unzip seeks around in the file I think. So it might not be possible with a pipe.
• 3022[16:23:28] <karlpinc> The zip utilities do generally suck.
• 3023[16:24:03] <ruffni> i'm having trouble installing wireguard on 10.04.. do i need buster-backports to work with the buster distribution?
• 3024[16:24:09] <karlpinc> no_gravity: You could try: ... | unzip /dev/stdin
• 3025[16:24:20] <no_gravity> karlpinc: unzip seeks around in the file I think. So it might not be possible with a pipe.
• 3026[16:24:46] <mvaenskae> no_gravity: according to the manpage: Archives read from standard input are not yet supported, except with funzip (and then only the first member of the archive can be extracted).
• 3027[16:24:47] <karlpinc> no_gravity: If that's the case you'd need to write to a ramfs if you don't want to hit the disk.
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• 3029[16:25:06] <realtime-neil> no_gravity: wget -O- $URL | (tmpzip=$(mktemp); cat >$tmpzip; unzip $tmpzip)
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• 3032[16:26:02] <no_gravity> realtime-neil: Well yeah .. depending on where /tmp/ is that *might* play out in ram. But then its easier to just write the zip to disk, unzip and delete it.
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• 3034[16:26:38] <realtime-neil> no_gravity: you can delete the temporary at the end of the subshell
• 3035[16:26:40] <karlpinc> ruffni: Yes. (And it's not clear to me what kernel version is needed either. I'd be curious if you need a kernel from backports.)
• 3036[16:27:01] <mvaenskae> no_gravity: stackexchange also lists this as an option where another decompressor can maybe work with it replaced-url
• 3037[16:27:21] <no_gravity> mvaenskae: Yeah, but I like to keep with the most standard tools.
• 3038[16:27:36] <no_gravity> So "wget <url>; unzip file; rm file" it be.
• 3039[16:27:43] <mvaenskae> no_gravity: libarchive sounds pretty standard to me
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• 3041[16:28:16] <karlpinc> no_gravity: To delete the zip file you'd probably write a script that "does it all" and traps to run a function that deletes the zip file on exit. That's safest.
• 3042[16:28:30] <no_gravity> karlpinc: yup
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• 3045[16:30:05] <karlpinc> no_gravity: Or the easy way is to write to /tmp and let some tmp reaper clean up the zip file, eventually. :)
• 3046[16:31:15] <mvaenskae> every day you learn something new :) thanks for mentioning traps to do a proper cleanup
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• 3050[16:36:37] <ruffni> so installing wireguard on buster failes due to "ipv6_dst_lookup_flow" not being a member of ipv6_stub.. is there an official way to get it working or should i just redefine it to ipv6_dst_lookup (as some hack on reddit suggests)?
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• 3060[16:44:14] <ruffni> it's just odd, since i installed wireguard and ran it on a 10.3 machine and did not run into such problems...
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• 3066[16:52:44] <debron> hello guys. When I am starting my system, there appears several errors, all I can read is ACPI, because after that, it follow all the [ok] messages
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• 3068[16:52:57] <debron> where could I find this errors loged somewhere?
• 3069[16:53:22] <ruffni> just type `dmesg' as root
• 3070[16:53:29] <debron> thanks
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• 3074[16:57:26] <debron> Bios error, could not resolve ... AE_NOT_FOUND
• 3075[16:58:06] <debron> SB/SAT/PTnºxxxx
• 3076[16:58:20] <debron> something with the SATA in the BIOS
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• 3078[16:59:14] <debron> 3 ports, same number of sata disks pluged to the MB
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• 3092[17:12:06] <ruffni> how do i figure out which exact kernel version i'm running? eg 4.19.0-5 vs 4.19.0-9? uname -r hides the last part.
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• 3095[17:13:19] <RoyK> ruffni: uname -a
• 3096[17:13:24] <avu> ruffni: uname -v
• 3097[17:13:43] <avu> ruffni: you could have just tried the few options in uname(1) :)
• 3098[17:14:21] <ruffni> yes. as stated before, uname doesn't show what comes after the hyphen (-)
• 3099[17:14:50] <avu> ruffni: it does for me with -v
• 3100[17:15:38] <ruffni> avu: for me it only shows "#1 SMP Mon Dec 9 19:36:21 MSK 2019"
• 3101[17:15:49] <ruffni> i'm on a VPS..
• 3102[17:15:55] <avu> ruffni: what version of Debian are you running?
• 3103[17:16:00] <ruffni> 10.4
• 3104[17:16:08] <dvs> ruffni, ls /boot
• 3105[17:16:10] <avu> ruffni: ah, if you're in some sort of container, this might be different
• 3106[17:16:34] <avu> ruffni: what's `cat /proc/version` say?
• 3107[17:16:40] <ruffni> /boot is empty
• 3108[17:16:53] <dvs> hmph
• 3109[17:16:55] <jhutchins> Then you're not really running Debian.
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• 3111[17:17:07] <ruffni> avu: pretty much the same as uname
• 3112[17:17:31] <avu> ruffni: don't think you're going to get more. Ask the person running the actual OS on that machine if you need to know
• 3113[17:17:46] <ruffni> ok, thanks
• 3114[17:18:14] <jhutchins> If you're not running on actual hardware things like BIOS errors in the kernel are to be expected.
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• 3124[17:24:26] <BCMM> what's the modern way to run a simple command after boot on a debian system with systemd?
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• 3126[17:25:54] <BCMM> (i'm currently loading the ddcci-backlight kernel module from /etc/modules, and i'm pretty sure it's loading before the monitor is actually ready, so i'm trying to load it later)
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• 3130[17:29:58] <jhutchins> !rc-local
• 3131[17:30:42] <jhutchins> !ping
• 3132[17:30:42] <dpkg> Sorry jhutchins, you're not online.
• 3133[17:30:53] <jhutchins> dpkg: rc-local
• 3134[17:30:53] <dpkg> jhutchins: have you tried replaced-url
• 3135[17:31:27] <jhutchins> BCMM: Check the manpage for rc-local.
• 3136[17:31:35] <jhutchins> I thought we had a factoid...
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• 3138[17:31:51] <BCMM> jhutchins: cool, didn't realise that was still a thing with systemd
• 3139[17:31:55] <jmcnaught> !rc.local
• 3140[17:31:55] <dpkg> /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch or newer you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd>
• 3141[17:32:00] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3142[17:32:10] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: THanks.
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• 3144[17:32:34] <BCMM> relatedly, does that seem like a reasonable solution (assuming that the problem really is teh module loading to early)?
• 3145[17:32:52] <jhutchins> jmcnaught: It's part of the compatibility layer. There's a way to do it with pure systemd too, but it's a bit more complicated.
• 3146[17:33:06] <BCMM> can't seem to find the manpage, though (rc.local or rc-local)
• 3147[17:33:12] <jmcnaught> I didn't write the factoid
• 3148[17:33:26] <annadane> . dpkg may not combine ! and - well
• 3149[17:33:30] <annadane> !buster-backports
• 3150[17:33:30] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See replaced-url
• 3151[17:33:32] <annadane> never mind
• 3152[17:33:44] <jhutchins> BCMM: Well, now you're getting into tweaking the properties of the systemd service files to say "wait for this to complete before starting".
• 3153[17:33:58] <RoyK> Better create a systemd job or if lazy, well, there's the possibility of creating a cron job '@reboot /some/script'
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• 3155[17:34:00] <annadane> oh, wait. the tldp message is a stock "i don't have a factoid for you" thing
• 3156[17:34:03] <BCMM> jhutchins: well, i'm not going to do that for module loading in general...
• 3157[17:34:46] <BCMM> ok, assuming i basically just want it to happen before the DM loads, but as late as possible otherwise, what's the systemd way?
• 3158[17:35:00] <RoyK> use systemd
• 3159[17:35:22] <BCMM> (i'm also wondering if i should just file a bug with the ddcci-dkms package, because this used to "just work")
• 3160[17:35:54] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 3161[17:37:10] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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• 3165[17:43:30] <mrtnt> Is it safe to copy LVM logical device(a block special device according to file command; used as an HDD for running VM) to a remote server like this: "dd bs=1M if=/dev/dm-20 | ssh -C backup-server dd bs=1M of=vm_root_part.img"?
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• 3171[17:44:57] <RoyK> mnemonic: I would have used a file copy instead if it's mountable
• 3172[17:45:06] <RoyK> mrtnt: erm - that was for you
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• 3174[17:45:34] <RoyK> mrtnt: some sort of backup software, perhaps?
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• 3178[17:46:48] <BCMM> ... are reporters not automatically subscribed to bugs that they file?
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• 3180[17:47:08] <BCMM> is there a setting in reportbug to get subscribed when you report, or do you have to just subscribe after you get teh confirmation email?
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• 3182[17:48:11] <RoyK> BCMM: IIRC you're automatically subscribed when you submitted it
• 3183[17:48:30] <mrtnt> RoyK: it's a one time thing. At first I tried with scp, but this doesn't work because /dev/dm-20 is not a regular file. I guess reading it with dd and piping to ssh should be safe, but I haven't done this for block device which is in live use.
• 3184[17:49:22] <BCMM> RoyK: oh this is odd, i seem to be getting emails for one bug but not for a different bug. both filed relatively recently.
• 3185[17:49:37] <BCMM> maybe i need to check my spam folder or something. is the cc list on a bug public?
• 3186[17:49:51] <BCMM> sorry, i'm being a total noob about this because i'm used to buzilla
• 3187[17:50:30] <RoyK> mrtnt: Why do you want to copy the whole image file instead of the files inside it?
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• 3189[17:51:32] <mrtnt> RoyK: it is a virtual HDD for a virtual machine and I wan't to use this HDD in another server
• 3190[17:52:43] <RoyK> mrtnt: understandable, but still, wouldn't it be easier to install some backup software in the VM and then have that backup itself to a destination?
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• 3192[17:52:56] <RoyK> it'll save a lot of space too
• 3193[17:53:05] <RoyK> and make incremental backups work
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• 3198[17:57:29] <RoyK> mrtnt: and will work during run hours. copying an image file without downing the vm can be rather risky, since the backup can contain different states for different times, which will vary, obviously, since it takes some time to do the backup
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• 3202[17:59:46] <BCMM> yeah, VM or otherwise, don't do a block-level copy (dd) of a filesystem that is mounted
• 3203[18:00:34] <BCMM> because it will not be consistent. in fact, it won't even be inconsistent in ways that the filesystem developers have anticipated, so who even knows what fsck will do?
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• 3205[18:01:02] <BCMM> (since it's *not* just frozen in one moment in time like it would be if you'd just pulled the plug)
• 3206[18:01:05] <RoyK> BCMM: total fsckup ;)
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• 3212[18:06:39] <jhutchins> mrtnt: You should be able to shut the VM down and locate the file that is the virtual disk, then just copy that file.
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• 3214[18:07:13] <mrtnt> BCMM, RoyK, jhutchins: ok, thanks! I'll shut down the VM.
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• 3217[18:08:02] <BCMM> still seems like more trouble than just, like, rsyncing the contents, but definitely better than doing it live
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• 3233[18:16:39] <RoyK> mrtnt: erm - why not just rsync or something the contents from within the VM?
• 3234[18:17:16] <RoyK> mrtnt: backuping the whole image will bring a lot of deleted files and whatnot and will make individual file restores rather troublesome
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• 3239[18:20:41] <mrtnt> BCMM, RoyK: my idea was to copy the whole virtual HDD including the file systems and partitions and then recreate the virtual machine in the lab server and use that very same virtual HDD there. I need this in order to troubleshoot a web application running in that virtual machine. So it is a one time thing and not a backup.
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• 3251[18:28:20] <yareckonirc> so I have a very old server I am upgrading that hangs on boot from my ssh perspective, and never responds to pings..... it's either getting caught in a disk / md issues, or networking issues. I'm looking for tips on how to tell the different / troubleshoot. I can remotely boot the system from a rescue CD / chroot etc.. but I don't see anything helpful under /var/log/fsck/*, and I don't really know what to look for to spot networking
• 3252[18:28:42] <yareckonirc> networking works find in the rescue image mode
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• 3254[18:29:30] <yareckonirc> oh, upgrade is wheezy to jessie on the way to buster
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• 3257[18:32:59] <jhutchins> BCMM: VMs store their data in what is essentially a file mounted via loopback. Those files can be copied, and even used by different hypervisors.
• 3258[18:33:25] <jhutchins> Want a backup or a snapshot? Just copy the file.
• 3259[18:34:08] <jhutchins> Most hypervisors can use several formats, although some will require conversion.
• 3260[18:35:39] <jhutchins> yareckonirc: Sounds like it's hanging, possibly waiting for a response. I take it you don't have physical access or remote access to the console?
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• 3265[18:37:39] <yareckonirc> alas, I don't think I have remote console access. I am currently looking at simplifying the /etc/network/interfaces file as dmesg has eth0 not ready and br0 not ready messages
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• 3271[18:42:09] <yareckonirc> OK, I am back in... commenting out most of the bridging stuff seems to have fixed networking
• 3272[18:42:34] <yareckonirc> will have to rebuild all of that after the upgrade (sigh)
• 3273[18:42:53] <yareckonirc> thanks jhutchins
• 3274[18:43:22] <jhutchins> That's strange, I launched one google chrome instance and it spawned sixteen threads.
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• 3279[18:47:22] <yareckonirc> lol
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• 3283[18:50:44] <annadane> #launchgoogleintothesun
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• 3291[18:54:29] <petn-randall> annadane: Remember that it takes less delta-v to launch something out of the solar system than it is to launch it into the sun!
• 3292[18:55:23] <annadane> because the sun's magnetic field has a repulsing effect or something? that's interesting, regardless
• 3293[18:55:32] <sney> but if you launch it out of the solar system then someone else may have to deal with it in the future
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• 3295[18:56:57] <petn-randall> annadane: -> #debian-offtopic
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• 3326[19:18:52] <premoboss> hi. debian buster amd64 here. I see there is not anymore unetbootin, but i need it oe equivaent tool to reverse a installation iso onto a usb. Any suggestion? (btw, "dd" in this case is not the right answer)
• 3327[19:19:40] *** Joins: Blankspace (~user@replaced-ip)
• 3328[19:20:06] <greycat> We only support Debian here, not whatever you're using that can't be dd'ed onto a USB device. Debian's install images *can*.
• 3329[19:20:25] <annadane> um... win32diskimager?
• 3330[19:20:28] <annadane> the question confuses me
• 3331[19:20:53] <annadane> you should be using that and *never* unetbootin and rufus *only* if in dd mode
• 3332[19:21:02] <annadane> if you're on windows, that is
• 3333[19:21:06] <annadane> linux users can just use cp
• 3334[19:21:08] *** Joins: nickodd (~nickodd@replaced-ip)
• 3335[19:23:24] <greycat> annadane: I'm assuming it's "I'm using a Debian system but I want to install Crazy Weird Linux and I have its image and I don't know what to do with it, and I won't tell you what it is, because I don't want you to kick me out, even though I'm so blatantly off topic."
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• 3338[19:23:54] <greycat> (and the Debian part might be a lie, too -- that's really disappointingly common her)
• 3339[19:23:57] <greycat> here*
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• 3342[19:25:03] <premoboss> ok. i am using debian 10 amd64. i want to reverse a iso of w7 on a usb stick to instal a second hdd to make kids play with some winows games. i did with classic way: "dd if=w7.iso of=/dev/sdb". oaa ok, also "cmp" tll copy is ok. shut down, remove hdd devian, ad emply spare hdd, plug usb, boot from usb. installer od w7 fail aftr bit reporting "driver missed". I sopposa A: w7 image coppupted or B) i must use, as i always did i thi
• 3343[19:25:03] <premoboss> case, unetbotin to reverse iso on usb to have a good job done.
• 3344[19:25:18] <greycat> *plonk*
• 3345[19:25:28] <premoboss> (and kids press to have their fu**ing games, btway )
• 3346[19:25:33] <greycat> Ask ##windows how to install Windows. We do not know. We will never know.
• 3347[19:26:04] <premoboss> greycat, the maatter is "how to hav unetbootin installed" oe a equivalent?
• 3348[19:26:51] <premoboss> not "how to instll windows"
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• 3351[19:27:28] <EdePopede> bootable ISOs *should* work with just dd/cp. if they don't, hell knows why. and maybe those who made them.
• 3352[19:28:05] <EdePopede> i even dd'd a debian live iso to a them empty partition and could boot from it.
• 3353[19:28:13] <greycat> EdePopede: no, that is incorrect. Debian's "iso" images are "hybrid ISOs". They are specially *crafted* to be usable on both CD/DVD and USB devices. This is not a default condition. It's a special Debian feature.
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• 3355[19:29:00] <greycat> I would assume that a Windows 7 "iso" (probably pirated, too) is *not* a "hybrid ISO" of the same kind Debian uses.
• 3356[19:29:17] <EdePopede> hm. wondering how i did it with knoppix and i think some other distro in the past. happened one or two times. long ago.
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• 3358[19:29:53] <premoboss> my main questionis: why the hell deb people removed so nice and usefull program from repos (me scratch my head)
• 3359[19:30:01] <EdePopede> heck. a new bucket list entry. "throw bootable images to sticks"
• 3360[19:30:10] <untakenstupidnic> do you know a good, configured-for-desktop, lightweight debian?
• 3361[19:30:19] <greycat> Debian
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• 3363[19:30:35] <premoboss> found it i can go with replaced-url
• 3364[19:30:42] <EdePopede> don't install gnome or kde and things like office and java
• 3365[19:30:42] <untakenstupidnic> greycat:yeah, but it lacks the second clause.
• 3366[19:30:48] <annadane> if you want *really* lightweight, don't install a desktop in the installer and then apt install xorg openbox, or whatever
• 3367[19:30:55] <greycat> ^
• 3368[19:31:01] <premoboss> untakenstupidnic, i use lxde.
• 3369[19:31:09] <premoboss> light an usable.
• 3370[19:31:13] <EdePopede> it has 16 DVDs now you CAN use, but you DON'T HAVE TO.
• 3371[19:31:16] <untakenstupidnic> installing desktop is not a problem
• 3372[19:31:20] * greycat happily does exactly that, but with fvwm instead of openbox
• 3373[19:31:29] <untakenstupidnic> i make my own DE everytime i install a distro
• 3374[19:32:10] <untakenstupidnic> battling config files with un-intuitiveness and buggy mechanism to make something usable is
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• 3378[19:33:02] <Miles8of9> i used fvwm when i was a child! :D
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• 3380[19:33:53] <untakenstupidnic> knoppix is the best i found, but i now can't install anything because they had made a FrankenDebian by default
• 3381[19:34:10] <EdePopede> untakenstupidnic: i have a half done buster on the other PC. 1.7 GB. of which 1GB is /usr/lib.
• 3382[19:34:28] <Miles8of9> version 2.6.8...! :D
• 3383[19:34:40] <Miles8of9> looks like it's still alive
• 3384[19:34:42] <EdePopede> if they didn't change it in the meantime, Knoppix isn't even meant to be installed.
• 3385[19:34:48] <greycat> Once you have your WM configuration tweaked just how you want it, you just use it in your next install, by copying your $HOME directory from the backup. I don't see the issue.
• 3386[19:34:48] <untakenstupidnic> you don't believe, oldstable,stable,testing,unstable in sources.list and their irc channel is unresponsive
• 3387[19:35:48] <untakenstupidnic> i'm mainly concerned with wifi working by default
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• 3389[19:38:22] <annadane> xfce's *supposed* to be lightweight but my pc is currently in such garbage condition that even that is slow :P
• 3390[19:38:29] <untakenstupidnic> i have no nerve to deal with a system without internet,it is such a pain and someone who has not configured by default is not eligible to make an end-user distro so i don't use such distros anymore.
• 3391[19:38:35] <untakenstupidnic> annadane: exactly
• 3392[19:38:42] <RoyK> annadane: what sort of pc is this?
• 3393[19:38:52] <annadane> intel processor, dell
• 3394[19:39:27] <RoyK> well, intel processor may mean i486 and also a modern xeon ;)
• 3395[19:40:00] <strive> annadane: have you considered using something even more lightweight, such as a window manager?
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• 3397[19:40:48] <annadane> not really, i like some of the automagic features
• 3398[19:41:00] <annadane> RoyK, intel i5
• 3399[19:41:01] <RoyK> annadane: again, usually it's not the cpu that's the bottleneck, but the memory - not always, though. A slow spinning drive (as if there were fast ones) will also slow things down
• 3400[19:41:06] <RoyK> i5 is ok
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• 3402[19:41:40] <RoyK> annadane: how much memory?
• 3403[19:41:43] <nvz> idk I've noticed my 4th gen i5 systems it depends on the workflow
• 3404[19:41:49] <annadane> i've put it through a lot of abuse so it wouldn't surprise me if it's a fair bit slower than it was originally
• 3405[19:41:53] <RoyK> annadane: just pastebin output of "free -h" and "lscpu", please
• 3406[19:41:54] <nvz> somethings they're great at, others not so much
• 3407[19:41:56] <annadane> ~8GB
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• 3410[19:42:07] <RoyK> ssd or spinning rust?
• 3411[19:42:58] <annadane> rust
• 3412[19:43:02] <RoyK> heh
• 3413[19:43:03] <annadane> replaced-url
• 3414[19:43:08] <RoyK> that's the bottleneck, then
• 3415[19:43:13] <nvz> yeah, gotta get off those spindles for the OS these days
• 3416[19:43:19] <annadane> sure, partially
• 3417[19:43:31] <RoyK> annadane: probably entirely
• 3418[19:43:45] <annadane> is an ssd just outright recommended these days? i've heard of reliability issues
• 3419[19:44:08] <nvz> my everyday systems are i5-4300U w/ 8GB ram but both have SSDs.
• 3420[19:44:23] <RoyK> there are always reliability issues with all sorts of hardware. I don't think anyone dares to sell a laptop with spinning rust these days
• 3421[19:44:32] <dvs> I'd use SSD but I'd back things up to spinning rust
• 3422[19:44:34] <eigenfire> Modern SSDs are more reliable than HDDs in nearly all ways.
• 3423[19:44:50] <eigenfire> Only drawback is the limited write lifetime.
• 3424[19:45:25] <RoyK> eigenfire: well, not exactly - they also fail and when they fail, they usually fail catostrophically instead of having a bad sector or ten, they just die
• 3425[19:45:46] <GNU\colossus> rumors of SSD deaths are greatly exaggerated in my experience
• 3426[19:45:51] <GNU\colossus> (but yes, do keep backups. duh.)
• 3427[19:45:59] <nvz> annadane: thing is, you're hdd is def the bottleneck in your system
• 3428[19:46:12] <nvz> annadane: it'd be 5x faster at least with the OS on an ssd
• 3429[19:46:19] <RoyK> eigenfire: and yes, they have a limited amount of write cycles, but there are several ways to counter that. They have wear levelling so that new data are written to a new place every time internally etc
• 3430[19:46:22] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
• 3431[19:46:28] <eigenfire> RoyK: I know that.
• 3432[19:46:30] <CrystalMath> hi all
• 3433[19:46:33] <CrystalMath> this is gonna sound crazy
• 3434[19:46:40] <CrystalMath> is it possible to use dselect instead of apt?
• 3435[19:46:41] <eigenfire> RoyK: The write lifetime generally includes wear leveling and overprovisioning.
• 3436[19:46:53] <RoyK> But if you fill up an SSD with 95% of its reported size and keep on using it, that last 5% will be written to very much and will wear out
• 3437[19:46:58] <dvs> CrystalMath, bite your tongue!
• 3438[19:47:01] *** Joins: johnfg (~johnfg@replaced-ip)
• 3439[19:47:08] <nvz> CrystalMath: why?
• 3440[19:47:08] <johnfg> hi folks
• 3441[19:47:22] <nvz> ,v dselect
• 3442[19:47:28] *** Joins: spaghetti (uid83460@replaced-ip)
• 3443[19:47:28] <CrystalMath> nvz: i wonder, would it perhaps allow me to handle dependencies myself?
• 3444[19:47:45] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Quit: shibboleth)
• 3445[19:47:58] <dvs> nvz, you insulted judd so it won't reply
• 3446[19:48:00] <nvz> CrystalMath: dpkg is the backend in any case.. and still expects the dependencies to be resolved
• 3447[19:48:12] <nvz> judd has been awol from here for a week or so
• 3448[19:48:13] <CrystalMath> i see
• 3449[19:48:17] <RoyK> generally, keep your filesystems at a max of 80-90% full regardless of medium, depending on the amount of space you've got, obviously. If you have 100TB, it's no reason to leave 20TB to avoid fragmentation, but if you have 250GB, 80% is a good number
• 3450[19:48:22] <CrystalMath> i was hoping i can kill udev and put device files in /dev
• 3451[19:48:34] <nvz> ffs, WHY?
• 3452[19:48:44] <CrystalMath> because it's simpler that way
• 3453[19:48:47] <eigenfire> Uh.
• 3454[19:48:50] <nvz> no, really, its not
• 3455[19:48:51] <eigenfire> No, it very much is not.
• 3456[19:48:57] <nvz> you just have nfc how udev works
• 3457[19:49:07] <nvz> udev makes it all WAY simpler
• 3458[19:49:11] *** Quits: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3459[19:49:14] <EdePopede> does curl have an option to throw an error if the target is not given?
• 3460[19:49:16] *** Quits: karlpinc (~user@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3461[19:49:19] <annadane> so ideally get two disks, OS on ssd, /home on hdd?
• 3462[19:49:21] <CrystalMath> nvz: if that is true, then that's precisely the problem - i mean simple software not simple for the user
• 3463[19:49:31] <eigenfire> CrystalMath: What?
• 3464[19:49:34] <nvz> CrystalMath: its real f'n simple you just need a crash course
• 3465[19:49:36] <rgwu> RoyK: Maybe look up overprovisioning
• 3466[19:49:49] <RoyK> rgwu: I know
• 3467[19:49:55] *** Joins: jubo2 (~noname@replaced-ip)
• 3468[19:49:56] <annadane> i do hear that while there's limited write you need a *very large* number of writes for that to happen
• 3469[19:50:06] <eigenfire> annadane: Correct. Many terabytes, even PB.
• 3470[19:50:21] <CrystalMath> nvz: but, why do i need it? i can just use static files in /dev
• 3471[19:50:22] <nvz> CrystalMath: udev not only has a tool to walk the device tree and gather info, but has rules where you can either outright tell it where to bind a device or to create symlinks to it.. and configure the permissions and everything
• 3472[19:50:42] <nvz> CrystalMath: because thats never gonna work, and never DID work
• 3473[19:50:46] <CrystalMath> i can mknod the devices into place
• 3474[19:51:04] <eigenfire> CrystalMath: Stop trying to do dumb things for the sake of doing dumb things. Learn how to use udev. End of story.
• 3475[19:51:05] <CrystalMath> i have a slackware install next to debian and it seems to work
• 3476[19:51:06] <nvz> CrystalMath: devices change.. back when we did things like that we just had to guess and hope things were what we thought they'd be
• 3477[19:51:18] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
• 3478[19:51:25] <CrystalMath> slackware without eudev, just static devs
• 3479[19:51:39] <CrystalMath> i had to mknod alsa stuff myself, and dri
• 3480[19:51:41] <CrystalMath> but that's iot
• 3481[19:51:47] <CrystalMath> *all
• 3482[19:51:50] <nvz> CrystalMath: I have recently for example bought two identical Logitech F310 gamepads.. the only hope I have of consistently making them differentiate is udev and matching their serial numbers
• 3483[19:52:08] <CrystalMath> i don't have such things
• 3484[19:52:11] *** Joins: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip)
• 3485[19:52:20] <CrystalMath> people who do can install udev
• 3486[19:52:24] <nvz> doesnt matter, you can't rely on the kernel to reliably detect things the same all the time
• 3487[19:52:27] <CrystalMath> it's not going away for everyone if i remove it
• 3488[19:52:33] <nvz> or be able to tell the difference between things
• 3489[19:52:44] <nvz> it doesnt know or care about the details
• 3490[19:52:51] <nvz> it just detects hardware and exposes it
• 3491[19:52:55] <nvz> udev does all the rest
• 3492[19:53:05] *** Joins: cliluw (~cliluw@replaced-ip)
• 3493[19:53:14] <CrystalMath> udev isn't doing magic, though
• 3494[19:53:24] <CrystalMath> which means that whatever it is, i can do it myself
• 3495[19:53:28] <nvz> and the u in udev is for USER.. the whole point of it /was/ to be user friendly and configurable
• 3496[19:53:29] <rgwu> not magic == a ton of work
• 3497[19:53:37] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 3498[19:53:42] <eigenfire> CrystalMath: The fact that you think you can means you aren't qualified to do so.
• 3499[19:53:50] <CrystalMath> eigenfire: but it works
• 3500[19:53:56] <nvz> I have considered making a gui for it.. to walk the hw tree and configure rules..
• 3501[19:53:58] <CrystalMath> and who are you to tell me i'm not qualified to do this on my system?
• 3502[19:54:13] <nvz> its not a matter if you're qualified or not
• 3503[19:54:13] <CrystalMath> i can use equivs to kill udev any time i want
• 3504[19:54:19] <CrystalMath> nvz: correct
• 3505[19:54:27] <RoyK> rgwu: but again - cheap SSDs have very little room for overprovisioning. The more expensive ones leave up to 50% for overprovisioning while the cheap ones may be below 10%
• 3506[19:54:32] <nvz> youre fundamentally misunderstanding how linux (the kernel) works
• 3507[19:54:40] <eigenfire> Hence unqualified.
• 3508[19:54:42] <nvz> you think you can rely on its detection of hardware and you CANT
• 3509[19:54:54] <CrystalMath> i have read the documentation and i know that some device numbers are not static
• 3510[19:55:05] <CrystalMath> however i don't have devices of that type
• 3511[19:55:20] <eigenfire> Aaaanyway.
• 3512[19:55:38] <CrystalMath> nvz: if i get them i'll install udev/eudev
• 3513[19:55:38] <rgwu> RoyK: The disk usage percentage doesn't affect wear out. If it's 95% full or 5% full, the same total number of bytes must be written to the drive for failure to occur, where that number is different for every single drive.
• 3514[19:55:51] <CrystalMath> nvz: the contents of /dev won't matter then
• 3515[19:56:30] *** Quits: eventhorizon5 (~smuxi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3516[19:56:34] <nvz> CrystalMath: you dont have any disks or input devices?
• 3517[19:56:43] <CrystalMath> i have these
• 3518[19:56:45] <nvz> there is very little which will ever be any bit static
• 3519[19:57:00] <nvz> input, disks, etc.. are only coming up the same by pure luck
• 3520[19:57:19] <greycat> Where did judd go? :(
• 3521[19:57:24] <nvz> to actually get consistency you need to further identify devices by SOMETHING
• 3522[19:57:29] <nvz> and udev allows you to do it
• 3523[19:57:32] <CrystalMath> nvz: hmm, well at least the keyboard is PS2
• 3524[19:57:39] <dvs> greycat, I fired it
• 3525[19:57:40] <annadane> judd sometimes breaks, i told the op channel about it
• 3526[19:57:47] <rgwu> nvz: You mean eth0 isn't always eth0? lol
• 3527[19:57:47] <greycat> In any case, the answer to the Y in the X-Y is "Yes, you are allowed to use dselect."
• 3528[19:57:56] <nvz> greycat: its still online and in #d on oftc.. just not in this channel
• 3529[19:58:06] <nvz> greycat: its on freenode, just not joining this channel
• 3530[19:58:13] <RoyK> rgwu: erm - how do you make that up? If you have used 95% of the space, do you expect the drive to actually read and write the existing data to a new place? That won't heppen. It just uses the free space (including the overprovisioned space, obviously) for wear levelling.
• 3531[19:58:14] <greycat> it is not on freenode.
• 3532[19:58:16] * nvz pinged themill about it like a week ago
• 3533[19:58:17] <greycat> 13:58 There is no such nick judd
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• 3535[19:58:28] <annadane> themill fixed it and it came back but now it's gone again
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• 3537[19:58:39] <rgwu> RoyK: What makes you think a file you never change doesn't get moved around in the SSD?
• 3538[19:58:54] <nvz> ah well then this current thing is a different issue and I just assumed ;D
• 3539[19:58:59] <RoyK> rgwu: I'm quite certain
• 3540[19:59:03] *** Joins: th0r (~th0r@replaced-ip)
• 3541[19:59:13] <annadane> . dpkg has dselect as a backup, but sadly there isn't one (afaik) for judd
• 3542[19:59:22] <annadane> dselect, ping
• 3543[19:59:22] <dselect> Yes, annadane, you are online.
• 3544[19:59:51] <nvz> annadane: actually.. dselect is the backup for apt :D
• 3545[19:59:59] <nvz> apt: hello
• 3546[20:00:01] <annadane> oh. *facepalm*
• 3547[20:00:02] <RoyK> rgwu: that would create more writes to the medium in total and will potentially slow down the system
• 3548[20:00:06] <annadane> i know dpkg has a backup
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• 3550[20:00:14] <annadane> i THINK dpkg has a backup
• 3551[20:00:28] <nvz> though tim has not been participating in IRC these days.. last I spoke to him he's focusin on life and family :P
• 3552[20:00:34] <CrystalMath> nvz: these device numbers have been the same for years
• 3553[20:00:35] <greycat> Near as I can tell, the X in the X-Y question is "I know it's 2020 but I want my Debian system to work like it did back in 1997". If you can figure out how to do that, fine, have fun doing so. I'm not convinced dselect will be the best choice for that, but sure, you can use it if it makes you happy.
• 3554[20:00:39] <CrystalMath> nvz: all of them
• 3555[20:00:41] <annadane> apt install warez
• 3556[20:00:46] <CrystalMath> nvz: i think i'll be fine™
• 3557[20:00:47] <annadane> well, it's not triggering now
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• 3559[20:01:35] <greycat> In all honesty, though, if you want that 1997 experience right down to the static /dev and no udev, you should start with Devuan instead. Or Slackware or something.
• 3560[20:01:50] <CrystalMath> greycat: i use debian but without systemd (openrc though)
• 3561[20:02:02] <CrystalMath> also without dbus
• 3562[20:02:07] <CrystalMath> that has been the case for years now
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• 3565[20:03:00] <greycat> then you ought to be able to run "apt-cache show dselect" on your own
• 3566[20:03:16] <CrystalMath> yeah i installed it
• 3567[20:05:49] *** Parts: morsik (~morsik@replaced-ip) ()
• 3568[20:09:39] <rgwu> RoyK: SeaGate says your wrong. Read the section about disk garbage collection: replaced-url
• 3569[20:10:00] <rgwu> *you're .... irony
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• 3572[20:12:39] <RoyK> rgwu: I'll read that - thanks :)
• 3573[20:13:32] <annadane> apt-get install foo
• 3574[20:13:50] <annadane> (just wondered if that would trigger it...)
• 3575[20:14:25] <sney> as long as I get *at least* equivalent lifespans from my SSDs as I do from spinning metal drives, I will never start caring about the "limited writes" nontroversy regarding SSDs.
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• 3577[20:15:00] <sney> and in fact, I have yet to have a SSD in my possession wear out. I've even got some early models still in use.
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• 3579[20:17:30] <annadane> yeah, i'll get a new pc, i just don't want to shell out a few hundred dollars right now
• 3580[20:17:50] <dvs> ???
• 3581[20:18:24] <dvs> replacing a spining hard drive with an SSD makes it feel like a new PC.
• 3582[20:19:31] <sney> it's night and day.
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• 3584[20:19:54] <annadane> yeah but i also want to rid myself of nvidia :P
• 3585[20:20:05] <sney> there are cheaper/smaller SSDs in the $75 range, but probably not super reliable
• 3586[20:20:05] <annadane> i'm not too well versed in opening up cases and fiddling with things
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• 3588[20:20:26] <sney> replacing a hard drive is about as complicated as putting a cartridge in a nintendo
• 3589[20:20:34] <sney> at least the physical component
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• 3591[20:20:40] * dvs doesn't blow on his SSds
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• 3595[20:22:47] <rgwu> Samsung Evo 1TB SSDs are down close to $100 in the midwest these days
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• 3597[20:23:51] <sney> which is about $140 maplebucks, but still a decent deal, and you can always bring a SSD with you to your new computer.
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• 3625[20:55:38] <nvz> annadane: my recommendation would be get an ssd first and take it with ya when you get a new computer.. the old computer will be WAY faster just going to SSD
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• 3683[22:00:19] <abrotman> annadane: have to wait for one of the bot owners unfortunately .. the bot isn't on the network at all
• 3684[22:00:49] <annadane> i told #debian-ops about it, i think themill owns it
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• 3688[22:08:25] <annadane> it would be Fun And Instructive to set up a backup
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• 3720[22:42:35] <ArsenArsen> can I manually (using the CLI, not the installer) use cryptsetup and stuff? DIs menus seem to not understand the partitions I have prepared for it from the live image
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• 3731[22:51:27] <mutante> ArsenArsen: yea, you would install 'cryptsetup' and then 'cryptsetup luksFormat ... /dev/...'
• 3732[22:51:51] <ArsenArsen> mutante: can I do that with the installer, though?
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• 3734[22:52:05] <ArsenArsen> as in, in the installers environment
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• 3736[22:53:19] <mutante> ArsenArsen: yea, in the installer when it gets to partitioning there is "guideedyou select the "configure encrypted volumes"
• 3737[22:53:27] <mutante> oops, something like this
• 3738[22:53:43] <ArsenArsen> ooh how did I miss that? thanks lol
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• 3741[22:57:19] <mutante> ArsenArsen: in the "partition disks" dialogue. There should be "Guided - use entire disk", "Guided - use entire disk and setup LVM" and finally "Guided - use entire disk and set up encrypted LVM" and "Manual". i usually just click the 3rd
• 3742[22:57:31] <mutante> s/click/select
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• 3750[23:03:49] <tinga> Does anyone know how I can tell whether qemu is using KVM, for sure? It's running Windows verrry slowly and I'd like to track this down.
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• 3753[23:04:23] <mason> tinga: Does it have "-enable-kvm" on the command line?
• 3754[23:04:29] <tinga> It does
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• 3757[23:05:03] <mason> tinga: That said, I can't say for sure that insists that it be used. What's kvm-ok return?
• 3758[23:05:13] <tinga> Command line looks like: qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -machine accel=kvm -cpu host .....
• 3759[23:05:40] <tinga> What's kvm-ok ?
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• 3762[23:06:19] <mason> hrm, seeing if it's available
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• 3764[23:06:33] <tinga> But where from, I don't have that
• 3765[23:06:48] <mason> tinga: In Buster, it's the cpu-checker package.
• 3766[23:07:00] <tinga> Ah, I'm on stretch
• 3767[23:07:07] <mason> Not seeing it in 9
• 3768[23:08:04] <mason> ah, really short shell script.
• 3769[23:08:40] <mason> tinga: Boils down to: egrep -m1 -w '^flags[[:blank:]]*:' /proc/cpuinfo | egrep -wo '(vmx|svm)'
• 3770[23:09:05] <tinga> shows: vmx
• 3771[23:09:18] <tinga> i.e. is successful I guess
• 3772[23:09:23] <mason> Yeah.
• 3773[23:10:00] <mason> I guess the other thing to consider is what virtual hardware is being presented. I don't run Windows, VM or otherwise, so I'm not sure what it likes.
• 3774[23:10:05] <tinga> I just wish qemu had an option to be verbose about that.
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• 3776[23:10:42] <tinga> I think it wants a GPU, and I'm not giving it. Still, I don't understand how that makes it take seconds for each key press or click.
• 3777[23:11:03] <joze> Windows CE os now Linspire CE "cloud edition"
• 3778[23:16:51] <tinga> My qemu process is using PID 22438 and I've got a directory /sys/kernel/debug/kvm/22438-11/ so I guess that is relatively good proof.
• 3779[23:17:27] <tinga> (With vcpu{0,1} subdirectories)
• 3780[23:17:38] <tinga> (And I was asking to use 2 CPUs)
• 3781[23:18:17] <tinga> (Number in /sys/kernel/debug/kvm/22438-11/irq_exits is increasing.)
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• 3784[23:21:12] <tinga> ( cat /sys/module/kvm/holders/kvm_intel/refcnt # reports 4, after shutting down windows goes to 0. )
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• 3789[23:26:52] <nickgaw> Hi, Looking at the debian buster installation guide there are lots of different systems like mybs and s390 that don't support normal partman and other types are these older systems or modern new systems?
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• 3795[23:33:13] <nickgaw> For modern debian work do I want one of those s390s or the mybs systems?
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• 3801[23:39:50] <RoyK> nickgaw: out of curiousity - what'll you be running on such a system?
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• 3805[23:41:14] <nickgaw> My question is are these types of systems old or modern new systems?
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• 3808[23:43:14] <jelly> nickgaw, s390x are new enough and IBM is still making those. They are just very different from PCs.
• 3809[23:44:03] <jelly> much like amd64, are those old or new? Both.
• 3810[23:44:08] <nickgaw> Are they like large systems like the types that take up a room and what about the myps systems?
• 3811[23:44:27] <jelly> I have no idea what myps is.
• 3812[23:46:43] <jelly> s390, the predecessor of s390x was used by IBM mainframes which would have had some physically large hw platforms
• 3813[23:47:15] <nickgaw> mips systems
• 3814[23:47:19] <jelly> Linux on those is usually just a tiny fully virtualized machine
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• 3816[23:48:23] <jelly> mips arch also spans decades and various sizes, from DEC and their 1990s unix machines, to tiny routers and set top boxes and other embedded devices
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• 3818[23:48:37] <RoyK> nickgaw: not MIPS, POWER
• 3819[23:49:20] <jelly> powerpc is like 30 or so years old but iirc mips is even older
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• 3822[23:50:08] <nickgaw> Are there still power pc and mips systems that are new that are getting made that I could buy or is it people who have these systems that still want to use them so use linux on them?
• 3823[23:50:36] <RoyK> jelly: replaced-url
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• 3825[23:51:14] <jelly> you can buy a new ppc64el, even in workstation format
• 3826[23:51:50] <nickgaw> Would there be any point and what operating system would it come with and would it be as large as a desktop?
• 3827[23:53:51] <nickgaw> My question is are these systems different then a normal store bougbht x64 laptop loaded with linux and why have the power pc systems if x64 is better?
• 3828[23:55:32] <jelly> they are different.
• 3829[23:55:47] <nickgaw> better or not?
• 3830[23:55:50] <jelly> "better" depends on your goals are
• 3831[23:55:54] <jelly> !better
• 3832[23:55:54] <dpkg> i heard better is a matter of personal taste; asking "is foo better than bar?" is almost meaningless unless we know what *you* mean by "better".
• 3833[23:56:04] <jelly> !best
• 3834[23:56:04] <dpkg> Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis!
• 3835[23:56:27] <phogg> I could go for some tennis
• 3836[23:56:37] <jelly> wouldn't it be nice
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• 3838[23:57:13] <tinga> What GUI or other set up tool should I be using to configure qemu or other VM problem-lessly (i.e. so that Windows works acceptably in it)
• 3839[23:57:21] <nickgaw> for doing things like compilation and audio converting and e-mail and things like that. What processor and set is the best for those tasks?
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• 3842[23:57:52] <jelly> nickgaw, probably the chrapest one that does them well.
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• 3846[23:58:28] <nickgaw> Do they make power pc laptops or mips laptops or s390 laptops?
• 3847[23:58:58] <jelly> replaced-url
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