98[01:52:10] <HelloShitty> I mean, I have a program running in a terminal and I can't stop it and I need to see how that program was called... With which parameters
99[01:52:31] <HelloShitty> So I need to see the history of that terminal session but in another terminal
101[01:52:52] <somiaj> ctrl-z will pause it, you can then run it in the background with 'bg', or pause it, check the history, type 'fg' to bring it back to the foreground
102[01:53:05] <somiaj> though I'll see if you can ccess the buffer from another shell
106[01:53:24] <somiaj> also sometimes you can check the pid.
107[01:53:40] <HelloShitty> ok, let me try the crtl-z
108[01:54:24] *** Quits: dacod (~dacod@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
109[01:54:35] <HelloShitty> well, I hit ctrl-z and it stopped, I checked the command and then typed bg
110[01:54:41] <HelloShitty> but it's not in the background
111[01:54:52] <HelloShitty> it's still running in the 'front'ground
112[01:54:54] <HelloShitty> :p
113[01:54:55] <somiaj> in /proc/pid/cmdline it has the command line typed
114[01:55:08] <somiaj> HelloShitty: it is output to the same std out, but it is running in the background
115[01:55:18] <somiaj> that doesn't suppress output, but only allows you to do otherthings while it runs
116[01:55:19] <HelloShitty> ah ok
117[01:55:54] <HelloShitty> thank you somiaj
118[01:56:38] <somiaj> hmm, not finding a way to access the bash history buffer from another shell, but there maybe a way for that too
119[01:56:59] <woenx> Hi. tonight I noticed that my NAS is running very very slow. I usually access its folders through sshfs, and it's quite responsive, but now it's taking several minutes to do a simple copy and paste of a small file.
120[01:57:25] <woenx> I noticed that the CPU I/O Wait value is very high, approaching 80 or 90% in iotop
121[01:57:26] <sney> woenx: what filesystem and how full is it?
122[01:57:46] <woenx> I suspect a hard drive might be causing this, but I don't know how to be sure and isolate the problem
123[01:57:47] <woenx> any tips?
124[01:58:37] <sney> smartctl is pretty good at detecting hard drive problems
125[01:58:42] <woenx> (I'm using Debian 10.4)
126[01:59:06] <sney> also if the nas uses a mirror, you can pull one of the drives and see if speed improves on the degraded array
128[01:59:10] <somiaj> hmm, only found 'history -a' which appends .bash_history after each command so you don't have the history in the memeory, but don't see a way to read another shells history buffer/memeory, which might not be possible unless you have some socket open
129[01:59:54] *** Quits: woenx (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
130[02:00:16] <somiaj> so for future times, you could just run all your shells with history -a (from .bashrc/profile) to append commands as they are typed
132[02:00:49] <g0zzy> Any good wheezes for running badblocks over ssh and being able to disconnect and still get a good progress report later? I'm nohup sudo badblocks -sv -n -o /tmp/bb.log /dev/sdb2 and that really doesn't play nicely with nohup.out
133[02:01:08] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
195[02:56:11] <Gigglebyte> I am trying to burn Debian to a USB, but xfburn isn't recognizing a USB as a valid media? Any thoughts on what I can use? Or what I can do?
198[02:57:36] <sney> Gigglebyte: the relevant manual page is here replaced-url
199[02:58:00] <sney> you just need that cp command and the following sync. the image is already prepared for usb so there is no need for a complicated utility
201[03:02:13] <Gigglebyte> sney> Well I followed instructions and ran dmesg, but not sure I accomplished anything. dmesg sees the Patriot Memory stick, and towards the end of the report it suggest the drive is sdb. However, the drive isn't detected by xfburn. Am I correct that Xfburn doesn't recognize USBs?
202[03:02:48] <dvs> Gigglebyte, you're not supposed to use xfburn
212[03:08:26] <bigfluff> Hello friends! Quick feel-out of the room, how well-regarded (and perhaps well-supported) is the MATE desktop environment under Debian?
216[03:09:51] <annadane> desktops aren't inherently more or less supported than any other
217[03:10:02] <sney> bigfluff: it's been in debian for the last few releases and I haven't personally seen any major complaints. you can check popcon.debian.org for statistics and bugs.debian.org to see what problems have been reported
218[03:10:06] <Gigglebyte> trying to find the path to the file to cp
219[03:10:18] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
220[03:10:31] <annadane> debian isn't like the ubuntu system where you have kubuntu lubuntu and so on
221[03:10:55] <sney> Gigglebyte: if you downloaded the iso with your browser it's probably ~/Downloads/debian-someversion-amd64-netinst.iso
222[03:11:07] <Gigglebyte> yes
223[03:11:20] <annadane> MATE's also the only desktop i've personally seen that's gotten backports
224[03:11:42] <annadane> (though really how much do you really need in a desktop...)
243[03:23:13] <incal> hello, how do you install another Unix' man pages? I got the man pages from SunOS 5.10 and put them in /usr/share/man and the dir sunos, and now it works with e.g. 'man -m sunos calendar'. but then I did the same with the man pages from OpenBSD, i.e. /usr/share/man/openbsd but 'man -m openbsd calendar' still shows the system default and not the OpenBSD page despite a /usr/share/man/openbsd/man1/calendar.1 file - ideas? TIA
244[03:23:14] <shreerama> tmate is displaying ssh key not generated ? how to generate ssh key for tmate & run it successfully
245[03:23:16] <dvs> even better!
246[03:24:23] <Gigglebyte> the correct path is Downloads/debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
247[03:25:01] <dvs> Gigglebyte, what is your current directory?
248[03:25:11] <nvz> incal: did you update the database?
249[03:25:29] <nvz> if you notice when installing packages, they always update the mandb after installing
250[03:25:32] <Gigglebyte> I am in the home directory. I am at the next step, and trying t copy the firmware to a separate partition.
251[03:25:47] <Gigglebyte> nvz> I ran sync
252[03:26:07] <incal> nvz: did 'sudo mandb -c' if that's what you mean?
253[03:26:11] <dvs> Gigglebyte, it would have been better to use the firmware iso
254[03:26:35] <Gigglebyte> dvs> location?
255[03:26:41] <dvs> !firmware iso
256[03:26:41] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
310[04:26:01] <foul_owl_> Also, is "pulseaudio --kill" supposed to restart pulseaudio? I still see "/usr/bin/pulseaudio" running but the pid has changed
311[04:27:25] <sney> that would indicate a restart
312[04:27:36] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I am a bit lost
313[04:28:06] <sney> foul_owl_: anyway, I know this is debian, but whenever I have odd pulse problems I go here first replaced-url
316[04:29:52] <foul_owl_> I realize that a new PID would indicate a restart, but how is pulseaudio stopped then if "kill" == "restart" ?
317[04:30:15] <foul_owl_> The docs indicate that a restart is done with both --kill and --start: replaced-url
318[04:30:44] <foul_owl_> So if something is starting pulseaudio after a --kill, that would indicate to me that something is seriously wrong with my system
337[04:39:40] <sgo11> hi, I have different servers named "foo" in different networks. Everything is fine except ssh. Everytime I ssh in to a different foo server, I have to remove the line from .ssh/known_hosts due to different keys. Can I add muliple keys to known_hosts for a single server name somehow? or how to workaround it? Thanks.
338[04:39:43] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I'm having trouble making the disk bootable.
357[04:52:39] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I'm trying to figure out if I have a wep or wpa network.
358[04:53:06] <dvs> You don't know? Who's router is it?
359[04:54:03] <Gigglebyte> dvs> Charter Communications (Spectrum)
360[04:54:23] <dvs> Chances are it's wpa.
361[04:55:14] <foul_owl_> Anyone know how to stop pavucontrol from "flickering" ? The gui will randomly pop between normal state and "Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please wait..." up to several times per second
362[04:56:01] <foul_owl_> Sometimes it slows down to once every few seconds
363[04:59:57] <foul_owl_> 12 years later, pulseaudio is still a POS :(
386[05:22:08] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Quit: deadlightbulb.com)
387[05:26:30] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
388[05:26:31] <Gigglebyte> nvz> I am trying to configure the partitions, but encountered a problem. 120 GB of the 160 GB is how showing up as unusable . So far I have configured root, home, usr, and var. All were setup as primary partitions.
389[05:28:21] <Gigglebyte> Any idea on how I can make the unusable 120 GB usable?
390[05:32:02] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
391[05:33:22] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
425[06:14:20] <sgo11> how to add a key to .ssh/known_host from a pub key file?
426[06:14:51] <sgo11> In the old days, ip/hostnames are not hashed. I can simply copy and paste. In current days, they are all hashed. How to add it properly? Thanks.
430[06:16:13] <bomb> that's news to me sgo11 but ssh-keyscan seems to be the tool you need
431[06:17:28] <sgo11> bomb: thanks. I will see the manpage. I am checking ssh-keygen manpage. It can add keys by requesting keys from remote server. but don't find a way to do it from a file.
469[07:13:24] <jmcnaught> So there's no roadmap to other systems if your account gets compromised.
470[07:15:20] <sgo11> jmcnaught: what do you mean by roadmap? They are just public keys. public keys are public. Everyone can know it. What's so dangerous if anyone know my server's public keys?
471[07:15:34] <sgo11> Everyone can know https public keys. That is how it works.
472[07:15:37] <jmcnaught> ~/.ssh might also contain keys, if known_hosts is hashed it's a little harder to figure out what other systems they now have access to.
474[07:17:07] <sgo11> ok, I get the ideas. they knew the private keys. but if they don't know the hostnames, they don't know where to access. ok. kinda make sense.
478[07:20:03] <sgo11> If they know my private keys and hacked my OS, I don't think it's so hard for them to know my server hostnames. but it makes sense now.
479[07:21:32] <sgo11> jmcnaught: yeah, I am rececking all the known_hosts to have the right keys. Because I am using some kinda VPN service (hosted by third-party) to access the Internet. I just want to make sure those keys are the correct ones from my server to avoid man in the middle attach. I need to use third-party VPN to bypass the GFW (firewall).
522[08:08:26] <mi11k1> can somebody pls help me find a better hack for this? I have a script just in my home right now that does this "sudo netdiscover -r 10.42.0.0/24 -i wlan0 -PN > /tmp/ips.tmp"
523[08:08:42] <mi11k1> i have a line in my conky that cats this file every 60
524[08:09:01] <mi11k1> i tried to make a crontab to run the script every 30 mins
536[08:11:10] <mi11k1> so, just make it root? i was just trying it. ive never used crontabs before
537[08:11:20] <ksk> You should be able to make it work if you do it correctly, but creating a root crontab entry in the first place is much easier, and does not come with any (security) drawbacks in that scenario imho
538[08:11:54] <mi11k1> ok, will try.
539[08:12:07] <ksk> you just do "crontab -e" as root, and leave out the sudo in front of y our command - be aware that the "> tmp/ips.tmp" will then be owned by root though.
541[08:13:06] <ksk> if root does create files with read permissions for others you are fine. if not you either alter umask (to change which rights files have on creation, systemwide), or you do a little "chown/chmod" to the file after you created it.
542[08:13:32] <mi11k1> shown/chmod works for me, thx
548[08:17:00] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
549[08:17:13] <mi11k1> i was happy when i came in.
550[08:17:20] <ksk> :)
551[08:17:45] <InnovAnon-Inc> you could just create the file as non-root in the first place: <command-as-root> | sudo -u <non-root> tee tmp/ips.tmp > /dev/null
552[08:17:46] <mi11k1> the real problem is me and dns
553[08:18:09] <ksk> mi11k1: then, maybe, lets start with: What are you trying to do in the first place?
554[08:18:24] *** Quits: saxin (~saxin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
555[08:18:26] <mi11k1> thats it.
556[08:18:31] <ksk> Wardriving? :D
557[08:18:39] <mi11k1> i just dont use hostnames on my network
558[08:18:48] <mi11k1> and that maybe
559[08:19:17] <mi11k1> playin with wifite. wps attacks dont do anything these days
560[08:20:08] <mi11k1> i have a bunch of vm's, if i dont touch it for a week, its foreign
603[09:01:33] <savantgarde> Does anyone know how to force gpg (v2.1.18) in Debian Stretch to read the password from a file, and not ask the user? My options would work under Ubuntu, but no matter what I do, on Stretch it will always prompt the user
607[09:02:55] <savantgarde> Since I invoke it via `rpm --addsign`, I've configured it in ~/.rpmmacros: `%_gpg_sign_cmd_extra_args --batch --yes --no-tty --pinentry-mode loopback --passphrase-file /tmp/gpg-pass`
615[09:06:54] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
616[09:07:26] <savantgarde> I tried configuring it with `--passphrase-fd 0` in ~/.rpmmacros, still wants to prompt the user: `cat /tmp/gpg-pass| rpm --addsign -v file.rpm`
627[09:11:43] <savantgarde> Yeah, that's another complication
628[09:11:58] <savantgarde> RPM isn't the user friendliest software :/
629[09:12:09] <savantgarde> I'm going to read up more on ~/.rpmmacros
630[09:14:00] *** Quits: Sajesajama_ (Salsa@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
631[09:14:17] <ksk> Does this btw mean, that you are building rpms on Debian? I am not that into packaging, but as fas I know you kind of build on $target_system - at least if you need to pull in anything library related (which needs to match the system)
718[10:18:28] <rccc> i have one local server, hostname is 'diogene'
719[10:18:32] <savantgarde> I used `%__gpg_sign_cmd` instead of `%_gpg_sign_cmd_extra_args` in ~/.rpmmacros, since I suspected that `rpm` wasn't applying the extra args
720[10:19:04] <rccc> from my computer i can use my browser and type 'diogene.local' to get the web app on this server
721[10:19:23] <rccc> but i want to type 'my.app', not 'diogene.local'
722[10:20:01] <rccc> so i put 192.168.1.127 my.app oin /etc/hosts on my computer but this does not works...
723[10:20:57] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
724[10:23:59] *** Quits: vassenn (~vassenn@replaced-ip) (Quit: qicr for android: faster and better)
725[10:24:03] <gryffus> Please could anyone review and remove redundant lines from my preseed.cfg? replaced-url
728[10:25:09] <gryffus> I am not sure what is the difference between partman-auto/automatically_partition and partman-auto/init_automatically_partition, between partman-auto/disk and partman-auto/select_disk and so on...
744[10:45:28] <Haohmaru> gryffus i had to websearch what preseed is, and within 5 minutes i found this, which might be useful for you perhaps? replaced-url
754[10:48:59] <mebus> Hi! If I have "deb replaced-url
755[10:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1260
756[10:49:20] <Haohmaru> gryffus hm?
757[10:49:25] <mebus> For some reason I am still on 0.7.12-2+deb10u2 :-(
758[10:49:45] <gryffus> "If you choose guided partitioning for an entire disk, you will next be asked which disk should be used." .... why would I care what I will be asked next? I need to know what exactly that option does and not what question comes next...
759[10:50:13] <Haohmaru> oh
760[10:50:46] <Haohmaru> maybe test it..? ;P~
761[10:51:23] <gryffus> Haohmaru, yeah, I will have to test every option... great thanks Debian documentation :)
762[10:51:44] <Haohmaru> sarcasm?
763[10:51:50] <ratrace> mebus: did you run apt udpate after enabling buster backports?
765[10:54:36] <gryffus> Haohmaru, well, I will have to rebuild an iso, copy to server and boot it for about 30 times because I will have to test many of the options to tell what they actually do. So yeah, the thanks is a sarcasm
807[11:07:16] <frontrunnerrr> hello ! I have a specific question about my backup scenario, can I ask it here... ? My laptop came with a pre-installed WIN10 on a PCIe SSD (256GB) - I then installed debian on it, LVM with LUKS, full disk used
819[11:10:46] <Haohmaru> ratrace i remember times when kids used the enter key instead of the spacebar, literally
820[11:10:59] <frontrunnerrr> apt-get dist-upgrade throws errors from time to time. cryptsetup device not found, and it points to /dev/nvme0n1p5 - but everything seems to work fine. I am just trying to understand whats going on, any idea
821[11:11:27] <ratrace> Haohmaru: I blame PEP8!
822[11:11:38] <Haohmaru> who dat?
823[11:12:02] <ratrace> frontrunnerrr: when that happens, look at the end of `dmesg` to see if any hardware issues are reported
824[11:12:21] *** Quits: behanw (uid110099@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
825[11:12:32] <ratrace> you can also check logs since last boot, `journalctl -k -p err`
826[11:13:56] <frontrunnerrr> okay, good hint, let me check next time with dmesg
827[11:16:13] <frontrunnerrr> thank you, will check both commands and try to get a better understanding of whats going on; also of the difference between space key and enter key :-)
853[11:48:55] <dob1> I don't understand what I am doing wrong echo somestring_base64 |base64 -d gives me the real string but echo the_output |base64 doesn't gives me back the original string
866[12:04:20] <brutser> i installed minimal debian with some openbox on top, but for some reason zeitgeist is installed, is that with the minimal debian already installed? i don't need this package to collect logs on the device, this is embedded system i am developing for, how to remove this zeitgeist logger?
867[12:05:02] <brutser> and how can i find out what caused it to be installed?
931[12:49:46] <Dexx1_> I am trying to download all MP3's linked on a website/URL, but wget doesn't work - it simply says FINISHED without dowloading anything. My command: wget -r -l1 -H -nd -c -A mp3 -e robots=off replaced-url
948[13:04:10] <neox_> Ok ? I'm wondering... Because I uninstalled xorg-xserver-video-amdgpu and amdgpu is working perfectly. So is the driver included with wayland ?
1013[13:51:19] <brutser> i have a workstation with debian host and qemu-kvm with several debian guest vms (and some other distro's), primarily for development - now for copying text between those vm's i have spice-vdagent that works fine, but when i have some code editor opened, copy text, close the text editor - i lost the copy in memory < that is caused because of the
1014[13:51:19] <brutser> absence of a clipboard manager, right? < now my problem is, if i install the clipboard manager on the host, it seems to interfere with spice-vdagent, at least with diodon < what is a good solution here?
1113[15:27:18] <kodapa> hello, running debian sid. today upgrade removed some kde packages, kde-task-desktop among them. When installing kde-task-desktop again I got this:ibkpimkdav5abi2 : Depends: libkpimkdav-data (= 19.08.3-1) but it is not installable
1114[15:27:22] <kodapa> anyone saw this before?
1115[15:27:43] <karlpinc> !debian-next
1116[15:27:43] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1117[15:28:06] <kodapa> ah sorry, my bad I'll ask there :)
1208[17:08:30] <dpkg> Try to give enough context! For example, let us know which command/program you are running, what you expected, and what you got instead. Try to be as specific as possible. If your command produced output, share the complete command (with all parameters!) and its output on replaced-url
1316[18:39:50] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
1317[18:39:52] <somiaj> It is just partly due to how packages migrate into buster, debian-security provides a way for secuirty fixes to migrate into buster (a frozen repo) as security issues are found, and buster-updates provides a way for stuff to be avaialble before point release for grave bug fixes.
1324[18:41:19] <frabbit> release? isnt "buster" the release?
1325[18:41:51] <frabbit> or wait
1326[18:42:09] <frabbit> you wrote: debian-security provides a way for secuirty fixes to migrate into buster (a frozen repo) as security issues are found
1327[18:42:57] <frabbit> my question is why isnt there just one entry in sources.list that contains all that stuff (updates, security)
1328[18:43:06] <frabbit> i have to make 2 or 3
1329[18:43:31] <frabbit> but all have the same url
1332[18:44:31] <somiaj> frabbit: As the bot said, most will want 3, because they are different repos
1333[18:44:48] <jmcnaught> Well, you might not want buster-updates (bug fixes that may change how things work) so those are optional. And sómiaj already explained that security is separate because buster (and all Debian stable releases) are frozen, so a separate repo is needed for security updates.
1335[18:46:02] <petn-randall> frabbit: the security repo is only recently also on the deb.debian.org redirector. You might also want one repo but not the other ... for reasons.
1337[18:47:18] <somiaj> Also there is no method to upload directly to a stable repo, debian packages have to follow a certain flow, and comming through secuiryt is how security fixes get into stable.
1340[18:48:08] <somiaj> Not really, just take some time to learn it, might want to start at the debian development structure, packages get uploaded to sid, migrate to testing, testing freezes, after all the rc-bugs are dealt with, testing is released and becomes frozen.
1350[18:50:41] <frabbit> hmm.. but thats a lot of work that way. having a system that updates from one entry and fixes security issues and upgrade to new versions as soon as they are available is much easier to maintain isnt it?
1351[18:51:11] <frabbit> i dont say its bad how it s done, only more work
1352[18:51:21] <ravioli> is there a way to run a command and find out the maximum amount of memory consumed by that command?
1353[18:52:10] <gena2x> i do not think there is such tool, but you can record results of ps every second
1355[18:53:11] <ravioli> it's a python script that deals with a very large text file... it takes a very short amount of time (way less than a second) but I want to see what the memory impacts of a larger version of that text file is.
1356[18:53:30] <ravioli> i'm picturing something like the time command but for memory
1357[18:53:31] <ravioli> that'd be neat
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1381[19:01:43] <somiaj> frabbit: there are advantages to it, having an altnerative method to get packages into stable via a security repo then allows an alternative team access to upload packages, so in some resepcts it is easier to matain since there is more control of how packages get into a frozen relese.
1383[19:02:36] <somiaj> frabbit: but in general this is just debian's development model and policy. Buster if frozen, and packages dont' ever get uploaded directly to buster, they go through some entry point, and once stable is released, stable-updates and stable-security are the ways to get fixes into stable
1397[19:06:05] <frabbit> so in buster is gpg 2.2.12 while gpg project itself doesnt maintain this version of gpg anymore, menas debian need to maintain that old version to keep it secure
1398[19:06:08] *** Quits: b1ackandwh1te (~b1ackandw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1399[19:06:38] <frabbit> *means
1400[19:06:52] <frabbit> correct?
1401[19:07:25] <gswan> lol
1402[19:07:28] *** Quits: gswan (~gswan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1406[19:08:32] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: conta)
1407[19:08:41] <somiaj> frabbit: yes, the debian security team backports fixes to the frozen version. Often times upstream helps with this (Even if they dont' offically support the older version)
1411[19:09:46] <somiaj> In cases this is not possible debian has had to make some exceptions. chormium/firefox don't get backports, they get new releases to fix secirty issues. and virtualbox has been removed from debian since oracle policy won't allow their team to help backport fixes (even though the team offered to do so)
1415[19:10:41] <somiaj> frabbit: It is way more work if adding a new version breaks everyones servers, frozen releases have their place and many do not want new features to fix a secirty bug.
1416[19:10:50] <somiaj> frabbit: then debian is not for you
1418[19:11:07] <frabbit> somiaj: i undertsand that idea behind the debian structure
1419[19:11:15] <frabbit> *understand
1420[19:11:26] <greycat> If that's what you want, use upstream's code instead of Debian packages for this specific application.
1421[19:11:42] <frabbit> greycat: i think gentoo is like this?
1422[19:12:13] <frabbit> wrong tabbed
1423[19:12:26] <frabbit> greycat: what means upstream? the devs of a program?
1424[19:12:36] <greycat> If you're trying to say "Debian should be like Gentoo", just go away.
1425[19:12:42] <greycat> !upstream
1426[19:12:42] <dpkg> from memory, upstream is where Debian developers download software from. replaced-url
1427[19:13:22] <frabbit> greycat: wtf?! i didnt say anything like that, i jst try to understand why distributions handles versions so differently =/
1428[19:13:44] <frabbit> ah thats how that bot works
1429[19:13:57] <greycat> !stable
1430[19:13:57] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). replaced-url
1431[19:14:02] <frabbit> is that irc specific?
1432[19:14:08] <somiaj> because there are different use cases, and each distro has decided on its own policies of what a release is and how it will be supported
1435[19:15:54] <petn-randall> frabbit: You're probably look for "Linux from scratch"?
1436[19:16:03] <somiaj> debian provides a well tested frozen release with 60,000+ packages, which works great in lots of use cases, and many just need a few select pieces of new software and still use debian and install the few needs from upstream.
1438[19:16:23] <petn-randall> frabbit: Be prepared to spend weeks to get a working system, and repeat that process every time a security update comes out.
1439[19:16:26] <frabbit> and is there some statistic somewhere that shows wich structure has to do more security fixes? or debian specific: will there be (in summary) as much security fixes in a stable debian lifetime as in the same on a rolling release distro?
1440[19:17:41] <frabbit> petn-randall: with lfs? =) im sure it would be like this xD
1445[19:20:08] <petn-randall> frabbit: There are many good reasons that no distro packages the latest and greatest from upstream. Stability being mostly the issue.
1446[19:20:53] <frabbit> petn-randall: ok. and about the security statistics?
1447[19:21:19] <greycat> Distros that shovel the latest bleeding edge crap out the door ASAP probably don't bother fixing security bugs. They just rely on upstream to fix them.
1448[19:21:27] <gena2x> living on unstable here for last i do not know 15 years, it is in fact way more stable than let's say windows...
1449[19:21:58] <gena2x> just do not update daily and there would not be much to fix.
1450[19:22:06] <ratrace> greycat: well pretty much all distros, debian included, do that. patches are ported from upstreams githubs and whatnot, unless the upstream is dead or unresponsive which is rare
1454[19:22:38] <ratrace> perhaps you meant those distros (you mentioned) don't bother (back)porting cherry picked paches, but rely on upstream version bumps
1455[19:22:47] <greycat> yes, that's what I mean
1456[19:23:21] <frabbit> greycat: im more interessted in getting the software directly from the devs and they will probably fix security issues first arent they?
1462[19:23:51] <ratrace> frabbit: note that some (many?) will also add new (untested) features as well
1463[19:24:01] <frabbit> ratrace: sure
1464[19:24:44] <ratrace> frabbit: there's slackware if you want pristine upstream packages, and archlinux if you want most bleeding edge churn
1465[19:25:05] <petn-randall> frabbit: distros have certain policies for quality control, and act upon upstream software to ensure that this quality is ensured. So Debian for examples patches out problematic tracking out of chromium, or straight out refuses to package certain software due to lack of quality.
1467[19:25:22] <petn-randall> frabbit: If you fetch straight from upstream you'll have to do all that triaging yourself.
1468[19:25:24] <ratrace> gentoo is not bleeding edge, it's a rolling release that has a stable branch (default). some pacakges are older in gentoo than they're in debian for example
1472[19:27:52] <frabbit> petn-randall: i see. but "fetching ou problematic tracking" is a bad way to handle shitty google software ;) better policy would be to avoid software that comes wich such "features" then fixing them...
1483[19:32:14] <frabbit> i mean that would mean the most upstream stuff is crap and need to get fixed or qualify by debian maintainers...
1484[19:32:55] <ratrace> and that's about correct state of things :)
1485[19:33:51] <frabbit> ratrace: ah.. sorry cant translate that. can u rephrase it for me please?
1486[19:34:01] <ratrace> all software sucks. some just sucks more.
1487[19:34:02] <petn-randall> frabbit: Yes. upstream can't cater the needs of *everyone*. That's why distros patch software to adapt to their needs and policies.
1488[19:34:12] <frabbit> ratrace: lol
1489[19:34:19] <petn-randall> frabbit: And that's also the advantage of free software. :)
1490[19:34:47] <petn-randall> frabbit: If you're be that idalistic, no browser would be packaged in Debian. Firefox also had their issues in the past.
1491[19:35:24] <frabbit> i hate ff...
1492[19:35:36] <ratrace> and new ones are on their way... .like disposition: attachment for PDF files that's gonna be removed....
1493[19:35:37] <frabbit> atm im trying to get rid of it
1505[19:36:41] <EdePopede> ah. i wanted to set up a system with their stuff already
1506[19:36:59] <frabbit> EdePopede: i use a lot from them. love it! =>
1507[19:37:23] <Gigglebyte> I am wondering if someone can assist with recovering a lost username and password. So far I have followed the instructions found here for the username replaced-url
1508[19:37:23] <Gigglebyte> overy+mode+with+Debian+Linux%3F&oq=How+to+boot+into+recovery+mode+with+Debian+Linux%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.8232j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 and I still get an error message indicating incorrect password. I just installed Deiban Linux on a friend's computer which came with Windows Visa on an older legacy Toshiba Satellite.
1509[19:37:24] <ratrace> keep in mind that there's now only two or three browser engines out there. gecko (FF), blink (Chrome, chromium, Edge) aaand.... webkit methinks?
1510[19:37:47] <frabbit> ratrace: yes webkit
1511[19:37:49] <EdePopede> the problem with browsers is mostly the modern web. vivaldi or what i tried some time ago, couldn't even display 2-D lists (like youtube's video pages in channels)
1513[19:37:59] <ratrace> and consider that "alternative" browsers that don't use the above engines, are quite likely lacking features and security mitigations...
1514[19:38:06] <frabbit> EdePopede: yeah the web is broken
1515[19:38:13] <frabbit> broken by design
1516[19:38:37] <EdePopede> they want you to use their apps if they have one.
1517[19:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1292
1518[19:39:11] <EdePopede> so you'll end up with a dozen installed instances of chromium as basis for some electron crap
1519[19:39:30] <ratrace> and then those apps are written in HTML5+javascript, wrapped in phonegap and cross-platformed to all devices, so the circle is COMPLETE, everything leads back to HTML5 :)
1522[19:40:04] <EdePopede> i like html5 apps, but they shouldn't use this for pages.
1523[19:40:46] <frabbit> i block a lot, but i avoid websites that wnat to force me to use anything else then html, css (except some shops that need js)
1524[19:41:02] <EdePopede> or to say i like the idea that it is perfectly possible to have just a naked html container and let JS do all the rest. but that SHOULD stay restricted to apps.
1525[19:41:13] <ratrace> I don't care about that. I'm enjoying the internet in its fullest potential :)
1526[19:41:27] <frabbit> "potential"...
1527[19:41:27] <EdePopede> i can't even use the recent youtube ;)
1535[19:42:14] <EdePopede> maybe i should give the new raspi a chance, it has 8GB at least :>
1536[19:42:21] <EdePopede> frabbit: youtube-dl
1537[19:42:23] <frabbit> EdePopede: use mastdon instead of twitter
1538[19:42:26] *** Quits: xsisec_ (~xsisec@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1539[19:42:51] <frabbit> sure i browse youtube with lynx and watch it with mpv + ytdl
1540[19:42:58] <EdePopede> i don't have an accoung on either of them, but everyone seems to post shit to twitter and others have to tell the world about it *shrug*
1541[19:43:03] <ratrace> no wonder y'all hate the internet. y'all can't see it right! :)
1542[19:43:26] <frabbit> ratrace: dude...
1543[19:43:35] <EdePopede> i just don't like the corporated internet. and i like simple things to be simple.
1544[19:43:36] <ratrace> dude!
1545[19:43:43] <EdePopede> dudettes!
1546[19:43:46] <frabbit> please dont be provocative... =(
1547[19:43:55] <karlpinc> EdePopede: The touble with the rasppies is that the've always required non-free software to work because they had broadcomm chips. Haven't looked lately.
1548[19:44:04] <frabbit> the internet was sold long time ago...
1549[19:44:24] <frabbit> karlpinc: yeah and thats sad =(
1550[19:44:35] <EdePopede> karlpinc: the thing is i think i paid 10 times the price of the new one for this pc here 12 years ago :)
1551[19:44:37] <ratrace> provocative? haha, no. you mean opinion balanced against luddism.
1552[19:44:50] <frabbit> ratrace: ...
1553[19:45:29] <EdePopede> and it's a midi tower. the nvidia i used to replaced the broken amd (yes, blame me for having confused them) was about the price of that whole raspi.
1554[19:45:51] <ratrace> the internet and internet technologies are putting food on my table. good things. yummy things. I <3 them.
1555[19:45:54] <frabbit> ratrace: The Luddites hate machine, i do not.
1556[19:46:04] <EdePopede> frabbit: you didn't read them yet in #debian-offtopic ;)
1557[19:46:05] <frabbit> because i like them i hate the "modern" web
1560[19:46:59] <EdePopede> frabbit: Luddites? i thought it was the Bene Tleilax. and yes, "them". seems to be the gender neutral designation these days ;)
1561[19:46:59] <frabbit> is ratrace more then one person? =D
1562[19:47:11] <ratrace> we are
1563[19:47:11] <frabbit> err.. ok
1564[19:47:15] *** woot` is now known as yawn`
1565[19:47:20] <frabbit> we are legion? xD
1566[19:47:29] <EdePopede> we debian users? yes.
1567[19:47:37] <ratrace> EdePopede: I like the machines from Ix. Better than those on Richesse.
1568[19:47:38] <frabbit> but then legion changed the sites xD
1569[19:47:43] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1578[19:49:22] <frabbit> (and thats not correct english xD)
1579[19:49:55] *** stillyawning` is now known as yawningstill`
1580[19:49:56] <EdePopede> talking about books, does debian have some kind of doc server that could be put on top of some httpd? ideally something that could deliver manpages, info, package docs, and just stuff to read from somewhere on the disk.
1582[19:50:53] <ratrace> I'm not aware of such an all-in-one solution
1583[19:50:59] <greycat> ,info man2html
1584[19:51:00] <judd> Package man2html (doc, optional) in buster/amd64: browse man pages in your web browser. Version: 1.6g-11; Size: 29.2k; Installed: 141k; Homepage: replaced-url
1585[19:51:10] <ratrace> other than pure httpd and let your client launch proper app by mimetype
1586[19:51:34] <EdePopede> thanks, i'll look for it. if it's a scripted solution it may be a starting point to also implement pandoc or whatever.
1587[19:52:19] <EdePopede> i just was remembering the docserver task (or what they call it) suse had years ago, probably still has.
1588[19:53:22] <EdePopede> the url seems to be really old. package not maintained anymore and the linked .nl server is gone :(
1589[19:53:43] <frabbit> ratrace: btw. Luddites werent fighting against machine because they dont like them, they were fighting against the authorities that using machines to get the people into slavery
1596[19:55:45] <somiaj> Do you awnt your own local server for this? There are some out there already (Though I guess they have different versions of the man pages)
1599[19:57:00] <skyroveRR> Hey guys, slackware uses a script called "package.SlackBuild" that has all the configure/make/make install/makepkg statements for preparing packages from source. Is there a similar method debian uses to build packages? I'm looking for that particular file per package that debian uses for building packages from source. Which file is it? And where can I find it? Like for example, I'm looking for the options
1600[19:57:02] <skyroveRR> used in the build file debian used for compiling gcc?
1601[19:57:10] <somiaj> ,i debiman
1602[19:57:11] <karlpinc> EdePopede: Sounds like something you have to configure yourself. You could also look at gnu.org and see what components they use, since they put man and info pages on the web.
1603[19:57:12] <judd> Package debiman (devel, optional) in buster/amd64: generate a static manpage HTML repository out of a Debian archive. Version: 0.0~git20180905.9955035-1+b11; Size: 8255.4k; Installed: 31891k; Homepage: replaced-url
1605[19:58:30] <EdePopede> karlpinc: i thought already of looking into suse to see what they did. but it was some collection of scripts (perl iirc) and html templates. would be nice to transfer it to python and use pandoc somehow.
1611[20:00:20] <EdePopede> and i strongly prefer a good layout over just text cells. and linked, structured content.
1612[20:00:34] <karlpinc> EdePopede: In that case there's also /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/* which can also have useful "stuff" that's not anywhere else.
1613[20:01:00] <EdePopede> especially some manpages are insanely big, i really have problems getting through those similar to mpv and ffmpeg
1614[20:01:43] <EdePopede> karlpinc: yep. only i've seen so many packages with just the upstream and debian changelog and the gpl. frustrating :(
1615[20:02:07] <skyroveRR> Anyone?
1616[20:02:43] <somiaj> !nmg
1617[20:02:43] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
1618[20:02:44] <greycat> Debian's packages are created by Debian developers. Using labor.
1619[20:02:59] <greycat> You would NOT want an automatically created package. It would be shit.
1620[20:03:21] <petn-randall> skyroveRR: There's no single script that does the packaging if that's what you're asking for. The nmg is probably a good starting point to read up on it. ^^^
1621[20:03:47] <somiaj> If the source is fairly standard, debian helper can automate a lot for a local package, but it woudln't be the quality needed to get into debian, it is just a starting point.
1622[20:03:51] <karlpinc> skyroveRR: See, e.g.: replaced-url
1635[20:12:16] <skyroveRR> somiaj: I'd like to compare debian's package build methods with slackware's. Slackware has a single package build file, a slack-desc which is a package description file, and doinst.sh, which is a post-install script invoked by the slackware package manager. The package.SlackBuild file has everything, every single sentence from extracting the tarball to configure, make, make install, and the final package
1636[20:12:18] <skyroveRR> making command in it. I'm curious how debian does that. But looking at replaced-url
1637[20:13:05] <InnovAnon-Inc> most packages are going to have 'quirks' that'll get in the way of your magic script. I use a magic one-size-fits-all script to debianize my autotools projects, but I can make a lot of assumptions about them, and they're all pretty much the "same." ahh.. you may be able to script that.
1643[20:14:39] <skyroveRR> greycat: something like this: replaced-url
1644[20:15:12] <greycat> so it's *not* just one gigantic "how2build" file?
1645[20:15:23] <somiaj> skyroveRR: start with the new matainer guide, but debian provides a lot of (often needed) customizing to patches that are all contained in a debian/, in general debian ships both the unmodified upstream source, and the debian/ which contains build info (including patches)
1646[20:15:49] <skyroveRR> greycat: well no. But the slackbuild file has at least the autoconf options used to create that package.
1647[20:16:01] <greycat> Not every upstream package *uses* autoconf.
1648[20:16:29] <skyroveRR> greycat: I know. There's cmake, scons too. But even those things go into the package.SlackBuild.
1649[20:16:48] <skyroveRR> Like this one: replaced-url
1651[20:17:35] <greycat> The debian/rules file is a Makefile that tells the basic steps for building the source. But that is only one piece of creating a Debian package. There's also the changelog which contains vital information (including the package version number -- this *forces* the devs to write a changelog!), and license management.
1652[20:17:54] <skyroveRR> Ah!
1653[20:18:25] <InnovAnon-Inc> Q: how to do I magically build any package, even if it uses autoconf or cmake or pure make or whatever... A: what a nightmare. replaced-url
1654[20:18:31] <skyroveRR> greycat: yup! Now that's the kind of the file I was looking for.
1677[20:41:08] <skyroveRR> somiaj: karlpinc: greycat: thanks a lot for your inputs. I'm gonna take my time reading through the material you provided in your links.
1752[21:21:06] <greycat> yeah, thought so... the "bnc" is usually a good indicator
1753[21:21:16] *** Joins: wilson (~wilson@replaced-ip)
1754[21:21:37] <jelly> scarface, if you want someone to even begin guessing what went wrong, show the full output of the failed command. Or at least the lines where the errors START
1755[21:21:40] <jelly> !paste
1756[21:21:40] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
1757[21:21:58] <greycat> in any case, this "sbnc" thing was apparently removed from Debian after version 8, and yet you're not even trying to install the Debian 8 package, but rather, trying to compile what I can only assume is upstream's source code...
1758[21:22:21] <jelly> I set up multiple users and each user runs their own znc. But that is me.
1759[21:22:40] <greycat> Perhaps what's needed is a different "bouncer" that hasn't been abandoned and discarded.
1760[21:23:06] * jelly only knows of znc as still having a nondead upstream
1761[21:23:48] <scarface> Yeah i hate sbnc and use znc myself , but some newbie rather use sbnc instaid :((( and he is not wanna use znc :
1762[21:24:09] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1771[21:26:50] <greycat> It also helps to have a basic understanding of the toolchain. "make" reads a Makefile for instructions, compared timestamps on files, and runs compilers and linkers and stuff to build the software. If the compiler (or whatever) spits out an error, you'll see that error, and then make will catch the error status, and also write its *own* errors.
1868[22:50:28] <kale> hi i am looking for some project management tool. which is task oriented. i need to set up a template for a task, which then has several subtasks with dependencies. do you guys know of something like that in debian repository?
1918[23:40:54] *** Quits: Gerula (~Gerula@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1919[23:41:20] <annadane> needrestart or checkrestart but i think needrestart is the only one that hooks into apt and it's a fork of checkrestart which implies improvements
1920[23:41:26] <annadane> (checkrestart being part of the debian-goodies package)
1921[23:42:00] * annadane wonders if anyone doesn't use things like that and just tracks everything manually
1935[23:50:15] <efloid> needrestart is written in Perl
1936[23:50:25] *** Quits: fax (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1937[23:51:20] <efloid> maybe this is an area where Perl really shines: administrative system scripts
1938[23:52:03] <IanJ> efloid: that's probably testament to the coder who wrote it rather than the language itself. I've seen some god awful perl in my time :P
1939[23:52:23] <Deano59> can anyone explain why NM-APPLET under Debian buster fails to detect/give me an IP when a Openvpn config is set?
1940[23:52:38] <Deano59> if I run via bash it works just fine.
1941[23:53:30] <greycat> I suppose it's *possible* to write perl code that "looks nice", but it's not the norm.
1942[23:54:02] <greycat> That said, perl is a fine language for certain kinds of tasks, and if you want to learn it, by all means go for it.
1957[23:59:04] <miskatonic> I have heard of something called perlwm, but it is excluded from debian; and I am not sure that it holds a candle to ratpoison