21[00:06:47] <b1ack0p> sponix: well current 4.12 is feeling a bit buggy.. i wonder if they fixed in 4.14 or whatever the latest one is
22[00:08:01] <sponix> b1ack0p: well, if there are specific problems you are having. Try a search 1st for solutions, and if you don't get any good hits ask around in here
23[00:08:45] <b1ack0p> sponix: i just asked when will it be in debian
24[00:09:02] <b1ack0p> screenshots also looks cool for new version of xfce
25[00:09:08] <karlpinc> !guess the release date
26[00:09:08] <dpkg> Guess the release date is a game you can play! Look at replaced-url
27[00:09:17] <sponix> b1ack0p: Yeah.. I totally saw that
157[01:49:14] <BalooRJ> I'm getting an error when I attempt to create a launcher for a program that is prefaced with OPENSSL_CONF=""
158[01:49:41] <BalooRJ> "Failed to execute child process OPENSSL_CONF (No such file or directory)
159[01:49:56] <BalooRJ> However, when I put in the same command in the terminal, the program runs. Any assistance with this?
160[01:50:52] <somiaj> is this a .desktop file?
161[01:51:29] <somiaj> some launchers are wrapped in a command that launches them so you may have things nested in such a way it doesn't track OPENSSL_CONF="" as a enviorment variable.
162[01:51:41] <BalooRJ> it is an AppImage file
163[01:51:56] <somiaj> I mean the lunacher, not the actual item.
164[01:52:29] <BalooRJ> Oh, this is a launcher through XFCE.
166[01:52:52] <BalooRJ> Just using the "Create Launcher" prompt
167[01:53:26] <somiaj> xfce probably wraps that through some other thing so the enviorment variable isn't geting processed correctly, I wonder if it is trying to create a .desktop file or something else
168[01:53:45] <jehorn> Can apt or some other means give me a list of the current versions of packages in buster? Like that I could output to a text file?
176[01:55:13] <somiaj> jehorn: dpkg -l will list all installed packages, there are some other methods too, depending on how you want the info formatted
177[01:55:36] <somiaj> aptitude search ~i is also useful if you want autoinstall info
178[01:55:44] <somiaj> jehorn: what do you want to do with this list?
179[01:56:23] <BalooRJ> somiaj - That worked great, thank you so much!
180[01:56:29] <jehorn> I'm doing some porting want to follow the packages of the current version of Debian.
181[01:57:14] <somiaj> you can use apt policy to see version of packages not installed, though apt search now outputs versions in its search output
259[02:54:51] <oxek> that did not seem to do the job
260[02:55:13] <oxek> when I boot, my grub still has options for old kernel versions
261[02:55:23] <oxek> and I did run `update-grub`
262[02:56:24] <neox> You can do apt purge linux-image-<version to be deleted>-amd64
263[02:56:38] <neox> Bash completion can help you
264[02:57:05] <oxek> neox: that would work, but I know myself - I will definitely accidentally either delete all kernels, or the latest one. Hence was asking if there is a proper safe way of doing this.
265[02:57:42] <neox> Apt warns you if you try to delete the kernel in use
266[02:58:23] <neox> To be sure, you can do `apt list linux-image* --installed`
278[03:02:17] <oxek> neox: I did `apt purge linux-image-4.19.0-9-amd64` and aborted at "Do you want to continue? [Y/n]". There was no indication that it is the running kernel.
279[03:02:57] <neox> oxek: ok my bad. Perhaps because this is a new feature of the new apt...
280[03:03:17] <oxek> my /boot is slowly filling up, so I'll need to sort this out at some point.
281[03:03:18] <neox> (i'm on bullseye)
282[03:03:58] <neox> oxek: you can use apt list to figure out what are the old versions that you can purge
283[03:04:02] <dvs> oxek, what's stopping you from deleting the other kernels?
284[03:04:52] <oxek> ok, so it's safe if I first use `apt list linux-image-* --installed` to find out which versions I have, and then `apt purge` the old versions?
285[03:04:56] <oxek> that will remove everything?
286[03:05:04] <oxek> without messing any dependency?
287[03:05:42] <dvs> oxek, I'd leave the two latest kernels
288[03:07:34] <neox> oxek: using `apt purge` removes everything. And no problem with dependencies at all if you do that
299[03:11:36] <somiaj> oxek: apt autoremove should be removing old kernels. For saftey it always keeps the latest two kernels. Apt/dpkg has always warned you when trying to remove the running kernel.
300[03:12:02] *** Quits: inhetep (~inhetep@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
301[03:12:03] <oxek> well my apt is misbehaving then
313[03:16:03] <somiaj> I guess it can keep up to four kernels as it checks various things, though often times there is overlap, making two to normal it keeps around
324[03:20:32] <somiaj> is grub controlled by another os, wonder why update-grub isn't triggering? If you run update-grub manually does it find just the two kernels?
329[03:24:32] <soft_concrete> Hi, let's say I install a package, foo, and it installs dependencies bar1 and bar2. How do I remove foo, bar1 and bar2 if I forget the names of bar1 and bar2? i.e. how do I remove a package and its dependencies that aren't needed by other packages?
331[03:25:50] <dvs> soft_concrete, you just remove foo and bar1 and bar2 should be automatically uninstalled (unless another package can depend on them)
332[03:25:54] <somiaj> apt remove foo followed by apt autoremove will get rid of them
333[03:26:12] <oxek> not if some other package suggests bar1 or bar2
334[03:26:15] <somiaj> there are edge cases due to suggested depends (or recommends if you for some reason didn't install them previousally)
335[03:26:18] <soft_concrete> ok, thanks
336[03:26:31] <annadane> "suggests" would still get autoremove'd
337[03:26:38] <annadane> it's Depends or Recommends to watch out for
338[03:26:47] <annadane> same as regular packages
339[03:26:49] <somiaj> annadane: not if another package on your system that is manuall 'suggests' that apcakge.
340[03:26:51] <oxek> annadane: that's not my experience
341[03:26:58] <annadane> really. well, TIL
342[03:27:13] <somiaj> package X suggest Y, Y isn't installed, you install package Z, it pulls in Y as a depends, but autoremove won't get rid of Y
343[03:28:18] <somiaj> It is an edge case, often times disk space is all that is lost and it is neglectiable, and package X that you want installed now has more functionality.
344[03:28:34] <somiaj> But there is argument for having a slightly better rolleback method
345[03:29:19] <oxek> is there some installation log that apt keeps for every installation? Some text file that could be viewed to find out what was done to the system, where you could look up what was installed with a particular package you want to uninstall?
362[03:37:55] <oxek> the whole results look weird to me. It is reproducible - the order of fastest to slowest is always the same, and always by large margins
451[05:12:59] <Eryn_1983_FL> i am about to kill network-manager if it dont stop trying to make a new network connection and set it to dhcp each time i delete itr
452[05:13:02] <Eryn_1983_FL> grrrr
453[05:13:18] <Eryn_1983_FL> i only want it to make a static one and stay there..
454[05:13:28] <Eryn_1983_FL> help?
455[05:13:47] <sney> cheapie: 686 is considered "supported" but oddball 586 era cpus might still work depending on what they are. what's yours, out of curiosity?
459[05:14:46] <sney> Eryn_1983_FL: use /etc/network/interfaces if you want a static network interface that just does one thing. n-m ignores interfaces defined there.
460[05:15:22] <Eryn_1983_FL> i know
461[05:15:38] <cheapie> I have no idea what CMS version mine is running or if that would change the results at all anyway.
462[05:15:39] <Eryn_1983_FL> but i need the vpn stuff in network manager setup
463[05:15:46] <Eryn_1983_FL> i found a rogue wicd-daemon
464[05:15:51] <Eryn_1983_FL> purging that bs
465[05:15:57] <cheapie> Eryn_1983_FL: Doesn't network-mangler have the option for static stuff too?
466[05:16:19] <Eryn_1983_FL> it does
467[05:16:26] <sney> cheapie: I vaguely remember those, definitely more advanced than your average Pentium 90
468[05:16:42] <Eryn_1983_FL> but for some reason i get two config in there and it would switch to the dhcp one
469[05:16:43] *** Quits: RadoS (~cheater@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
470[05:16:48] <Eryn_1983_FL> even if i delete them all in nm-applet
471[05:16:58] <cheapie> sney: Well, by the time the board I have here was made in around 2005, an 800MHz Crusoe was already really, really slow :P
472[05:17:04] <cheapie> And it's not any faster today :P
473[05:17:32] <sney> sure, but 586 was much slower than that in general. the original 686 was, iirc, a 200MHz Pentium Pro
474[05:17:48] * cheapie nods, PPro is the lower bound for "686"
475[05:18:22] <sney> listing that crusoe as a 586 is probably just a weird edge case, spec-wise it looks like a below average pentium 3
477[05:18:55] <cheapie> Something I should do sometime... I do have a similar board, from the same model range and same time period, fitted with a VIA Eden ESP8000, also running at 800MHz like this Crusoe is - I should run some benchmarks and try to compare the two.
478[05:19:14] <Eryn_1983_FL> so i guess we will see if that fixes it now
479[05:19:23] <Eryn_1983_FL> seems to be holding for now
480[05:19:25] <sney> wasn't there a super tiny japan-only laptop that used that crusoe chip?
481[05:19:42] <cheapie> IIRC there were a few "ultra-mobile" laptops that did.
482[05:20:34] <cheapie> My board that has one is from a thin client, HP t5510. I upgraded the RAM to 512MB and added a 60GB hard drive with one of those 44-pin PATA cables.
488[05:24:02] <sney> fujitsu p1000! Even smaller than the asus netbook that I bought 5-ish years later. unusably small. but I guess it was a sign of the portability to come
489[05:24:53] * cheapie watches update-initramfs take a few minutes to complete
497[05:33:32] * cheapie rips MATE out to replace it with Fluxbox or something, will probably run a bit better that way especially without librsvg-based stuff crashing due to invalid opcodes all the time
499[05:35:05] <dvs> cheapie, yup, that's why the kernel is for a 686
500[05:35:53] *** Quits: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
501[05:35:55] <cheapie> dvs: Not kernel-related as far as I can tell, it's some other package (librsvg2-2) that wants a 686 or at least something better than what that thing is.
502[05:36:08] <sney> could just be xorg
503[05:36:32] <cheapie> X was running fine, and I doubt that would cause invalid opcodes to be present in some *other* package anyway.
531[06:29:27] <tinfoil-hat> Hey, there, I wanted to create an offline debian mirror, since I have several VMs and my workstation mostly are debian based. I came across debmirror, archvsync and ftpsync. I'm not very clear about what option I should choose. I want to mirror main crontrib and non-free of buster amd64. Maybe one could give me a hint
532[06:30:06] <somiaj> tinfoil-hat: would apt-cacher-ng work for you?
533[06:30:18] <somiaj> often times people don't need a full mirror, and just a cacher
534[06:31:03] <tinfoil-hat> I'd rather prefere a full mirror
535[06:31:43] <somiaj> even there you have to make choices, what arch, do you want just binary, or binay and source. Anyways a full mirror is 60,000+ packages and takes up a decent amount of space
536[06:32:16] <somiaj> I don't have any suggestion on what tool to use a full mirror, I personaly use apt-cacher
537[06:32:24] <tinfoil-hat> well the binary would work
538[06:33:16] <Gigglebyte> Does anyone have experience installing the Whatsapp client for Debian? I am running Debian stable, and noticed a bunch of files in the repository for yowsup-cli. Is this the same thing?
539[06:33:19] <somiaj> also do you want just amd64, or amd64 + i386, things you should decide first.
540[06:33:24] *** Quits: sixtysix (~sixtysix@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
541[06:33:37] <tinfoil-hat> amd64 would be enough
542[06:33:41] <somiaj> Gigglebyte: there are some libaries that talk with whatsapp, but I don't think any is a full client.
543[06:34:12] <Gigglebyte> Have you tried Yousapp-cli?
545[06:34:56] <somiaj> Gigglebyte: no, I just use my phone. But from what I saw the descriptions off I didn't see a client.
546[06:35:01] <somiaj> ,v yousapp-cli
547[06:35:02] <judd> No package named 'yousapp-cli' was found in amd64.
548[06:35:13] <somiaj> I also don't see that pacakge in debian, I only saw some python libaries when I searched
549[06:35:56] <Gigglebyte> There seems to be a client in the repository called Yousapp-cli. This showed up after I ran apt-cache search whatsapp. Along with this file are a bunch of related files, but yousapp0-cli is a command line tool.
550[06:36:04] <tinfoil-hat> somiaj: ty, I'll read trough, and will be careful with the amount and speed I downliad
551[06:36:53] <somiaj> Gigglebyte: what version of debian are you running? That package is not in debian.
552[06:37:07] <Gigglebyte> stable with the latest updates
553[06:37:18] <Gigglebyte> I thik it is Debian 10.3 or something like that.
554[06:37:31] <somiaj> what is the package name, there is no package name yousapp-cli in debian.
555[06:38:26] <Gigglebyte> There are a number of YOutube presentations that indicate the program runs on Debian 8+, but I am very reluctant to install files that are not in the repository.
556[06:39:02] <somiaj> anyways all I see is some python libaries and a cli client based on them
557[06:39:22] <Gigglebyte> Well need to get my beauty rest. Thanks for chatting.
558[06:39:29] <somiaj> ,v yousup-cli
559[06:39:30] <judd> No package named 'yousup-cli' was found in amd64.
675[09:26:51] <jim> hi, running kde and debian 10; noticed a kinda weird behavior: around the time kde tries to connect to a wireless net, it tries to open the kdewallet before and after... do these have to do with each other/
676[09:26:52] <jim> ?
677[09:28:55] <aeplus> is the wireless net secured by a key?
681[09:30:53] <jim> the wireless router I got, I assigned one password to (other than the admin password), which I use to connect, I think it's a wpa or wpa2
682[09:31:27] <aeplus> perhaps, that key/passphrase is being managed by kdewallet
683[09:31:54] <jelly> it's reasonable to assume KDE apps, including NetworkManager integration, use KDE's secure storage to store secrets like wifi passwphrases
684[09:32:04] <jim> I don't seem to have a password for the kdewallet... is there a default? or, can I set one? (I don't think I ever did)
685[09:32:27] <aeplus> you may just open kdewallet
686[09:32:33] <jelly> I _think_ your unix account user password is default
744[09:43:47] <r3> ok... thought I would ask because I've seen some odd things with kdewallet/pam when rdp'd into a headless box 2 feet away (heh) - cheers :) bon chance
748[09:45:17] <jim> one article suggests I make a new wallet, make it the default, and delete the original one... now, I hadn't used a kdewallet up to this point... so this should be a safe thing to do?
749[09:45:57] <r3> I would think so, as long as you don't wish to use the old one - and if you say you've never used it then I don't see a downside
750[09:46:08] <miskatonic> does each de come with its own wallet?
754[09:47:08] <r3> and that whatever is being used to create the new wallet does whatever magic is required for it to be integrated into the desktop, etc
755[09:47:35] <jim> a kdewallet'
756[09:47:38] <r3> integrated as in associated with you
757[09:47:39] <jim> err. ot
758[09:48:04] <jim> its purpose is to store passwords? (sorry for noise)
784[10:13:03] <morsik> Hello there. Does anyone knows how can I disable DHCP in Debian's cloud image? :/ Comment in /etc/network/interfaces clearly states that: "# Set this one last, so that cloud-init or user can override defaults." and it does "source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*"
788[10:13:26] *** Quits: otmi (~mito@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
789[10:13:39] <morsik> And I need to wait 1 minute until dhcp request will timeout before network will come up by cloud-init :/
790[10:13:49] <morsik> (i'm using Debian cloud image in Proxmox without DHCP)
791[10:15:28] <morsik> (of course I'm asking for valid options that doesn't need changing official image - because currently only way I see is to override /etc/network/interfaces by my own and add modified image to Proxmox as base image instead of official one)
793[10:17:29] <sney> if that's a dhcp client in a vm it's likely that address assignment is happening at the host level and tinkering with things on the guest OS will accomplish little
794[10:17:35] <sney> check your provider's docs
795[10:18:36] <morsik> my provider (which is NoCloud or ConfigDrive) uses just .iso with setup, and it's working correctly… the problem is: cloud-init runs AFTER actual Debian network so Debian enforces DHCP doesn't matter what :/
815[10:33:43] <morsik> yeah, cloud-init-local configures /etc/network/interfaces.d/50-cloud-init.cfg but regardless of that - it doesn't works… what I don't understand here? replaced-url
860[11:10:25] <ayekat> either resolved is the tool providing the content of resolv.conf, or it's the tool reading from it, as resolv.conf is generated/managed by another tool
861[11:10:41] <tomtastic> And becomes very hard to predict the behaviour of, esp when you might be receiving DNS options from DHCP, and you wish to override them.
865[11:11:54] <ayekat> if you find yourself manually modifying resolv.conf, you may want to configure your DHCP server to stop managing that file - that's not specific to resolved
866[11:12:29] <randompleb> I disabled my internal mic in the BIOS a few days ago. Today, I enabled it and I can't seem to use my internal mic anymore. I already tried messing with pavucontrol and gnome settings but no dice.
867[11:12:32] <tomtastic> Not an insignificant assumption that you have control over that.
868[11:13:28] <tomtastic> Anyway, I shouldnt rant about systemd. I came here to rant about the old version of nodejs :)
869[11:13:38] <ayekat> I'm curious what setup gives you only partial control over your network setup such that you can edit resolv.conf but not your network manager's setting
870[11:14:38] <tomtastic> ayekat : imagine you're a home user, and the CPE hardware your ISP supplies doesn't let you specify custom DNS servers
871[11:15:55] <ayekat> tomtastic: but that would be the DHCP *server* - your laptop/workstation is not obliged to take all its settings as-is
872[11:16:34] <tomtastic> Of course not, thats why youd be specifying your own resolver config.
873[11:16:39] <ayekat> in 90% of all cases, I haven't got control over the router/DHCP server anyway
874[11:17:02] <ayekat> tomtastic: sure, but as I said, you'd configure your network management tool to handle that
876[11:17:23] <tomtastic> Now imagine you live in a country of heavy internet censorship, so you want to run a DNS-over-TLS service and resolve via that.
877[11:17:55] <joze> how to restart dhclient via systemctl?
878[11:18:00] <tomtastic> Now try setting up systemd-resolved and systemd-networkd to do that reliably.
884[11:19:29] <tomtastic> Yes, and now it can't resolve anything on the home network,
885[11:20:08] <tomtastic> so you start playing with networkd more and realise that unless you're using networkmanager some options simply arent available
886[11:20:42] <tomtastic> Anyway, there are still tickets open for these issues, so no point going over them here
887[11:21:19] <ayekat> I never claimed resolved was almighty, and yes, it would be nice to have domain-specific DNS resolvers (though I don't know if they're really missing) - I just don't see the "insanity" yet
888[11:21:26] <joze> i am still running a vulnerable dhclient after a security update
889[11:21:26] <KBme> Hello.
890[11:21:41] <joze> they will attack me :(
891[11:21:41] <ayekat> it's more of just "resolved is missing a feature"
892[11:21:57] <joze> i don't want to reboot
893[11:21:59] <ayekat> joze: who is "they"? also, how do you manage your network?
894[11:22:05] <KBme> I have two stretch machines, one with systemd the other with sysv. It looks like I am getting a different behaviour on apt cache cleaning on the two systems.
895[11:22:18] <joze> ayekat: I want to restart dhclient
896[11:22:32] <KBme> Both do have their respective apt daily task enabled, but on the systemd node the apt cache doesn't get cleaned. I am trying to find out why.
897[11:22:34] <ayekat> joze: yes, you already said that - but how are you managing your network?
902[11:23:13] <KBme> I can see that the two scripts are not the same (sysv vs. systemd apt daily script), but it looks like the cache cleanup should be controlled by a configuration variable that isn't set on either of the hosts.
904[11:23:43] <joze> i will just reboot in a month
905[11:23:46] <ayekat> joze: which tool are you using to manage your network? is it one of the following: networkmanager, ifupdown (/etc/network/interface), systemd-networkd, dhcpcpd)?
938[11:38:49] <ayekat> automagically morphing a running process into a new version of the underlying software would be a futuristic feature I definitely don't want
939[11:39:31] <joze> I read about rumors like this
941[11:39:44] <r3m1> anyone here familiar with autossh ? I have a field device that opens a reverse tunnel to my server using autossh at startup so that I can have an SSH to this device field through my server eventually
942[11:40:05] <r3m1> I could not reach my device field through SSH
948[11:44:55] <n_1-c_k> r3m1, I see the same thing. I think 'kill <sshpid>' must be considered as scenario 1 under 'SSH exits' in the man page. Not obvious to me why that should be so, if it really is.
976[12:12:42] <rotaticus> hmm i've got a ntfs usbstick and it looks destroyed as it only mounts readonly, but it also forbids root to mkfs ... is it unrecoverable dead? i dont care about the data, im interested in the space
978[12:13:38] <klaas> I have a server that is going off site for dedicated hosting, can I configure the same static address on multiple interfaces and only the one with the plugged in cable will be active? I was thinking about catching a failure where cable is in the wrong network port -- or in case of a hardware problem with nic I can just have em put the cable into a
1055[13:38:21] *** Joins: bello (~Guest@replaced-ip)
1056[13:40:47] <b1ackandwh1te> was funny the answer in reddit for the question: what is the smallest debian distro (not the damn)?... Answ: the smallest debian distro is debian (you just remove what you dont want or use)... lmao
1059[13:44:33] <bello> hi, can you say me what should i do before termination a vps? i have an open vz server and its time finishing. i dont want lose my configurations settings etc. for example web server, MySQL, mail server etc.
1060[13:44:34] <miskatonic> slant is worse than reddit
1076[13:52:37] <bello> ratrace: hello thanks for response. can you give me a link which helps for these processes please?
1077[13:52:51] *** Quits: randompleb (dfbbcc98@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1078[13:53:43] <miskatonic> according to free, I use less than half of a Gigabyte ... whatever free is worth
1079[13:54:03] <ratrace> no I don't know of any _single_ link for that . to back up your filesystem, the simplest thing is to copy/rsync it somewhere else. there are other tools and whole suites for backup as well
1080[13:54:07] <ratrace> bello: ^
1081[13:54:14] <sgo11> hi, how can I match two extended attributes in one getfattr search? right now, I can do `getfattr -R -m user.tag1 .`. but how to match user.tag1 and user.tag2 in AND relationship? thanks.
1082[13:54:22] <b1ackandwh1te> just to share a thought (my last attempt to use apt-clone was troublesome).
1085[13:55:15] <miskatonic> what is apt-clone? something like git-clone?
1086[13:56:07] <jmcnaught> bello: for MySQL you should use mysqldump to get dumps of each database to back up. Other stuff to consider here: replaced-url
1089[13:56:23] <dpkg> methinks apt-clone is a utility to clone/restore the packages on an apt-based system. It will save/restore the packages, sources.list, keyring and automatic-installed states. It can also save/restore no longer downloadable packages using <dpkg-repack>.
1095[14:02:09] <bello> ratrace: can i copy/rsync it into my phone? which tools you use?
1096[14:03:18] <ratrace> bello: I use ZFS and BTRFS filesystems and their snapshot sending capabilities. otherwise I'd use rsync, and there's also rsnapshot tool for rsync+hardlink based backups. I have no idea if you can copy into your "phone" and that sounds like a terrible thing to do.
1098[14:03:51] <bello> jmcnaught: can i take full back up instead of one by one? i think i even forgot its password. i created them 5-6 years ago. can i take its backups in my phone? i don't use pc
1099[14:05:06] <bello> ratrace: oh i use ssh bash from phone. i don't have computer
1100[14:05:07] <dutchfish> ratrace, You want to push in your phone? Delve into HTTP/2 from your webserver, that serves your files.
1101[14:05:28] <b1ackandwh1te> i only believe on 1 sort of full trust backup, full system backup (not easy to do for remote server).
1102[14:06:50] <ratrace> dutchfish: no, I don't
1103[14:06:50] <norkle> U NEED SAMSUNG
1104[14:07:32] <jmcnaught> bello: mysqldump can do all databases, check the man page. Not going to lie, this will be pretty challenging without a computer. If you can borrow one for a bit it might make it easier.
1105[14:07:37] <norkle> MY PHONE IS BOMB, MY 32" MONITOR IS ALL BLOOD!
1106[14:07:37] <ratrace> bello: that sounds like a terrible thing to do. for starters, what filesystem is on your phone? does it accept xattrs and acls? otherwise you'd need to use tar and stream it via ssh
1107[14:07:38] <dutchfish> ratrace, sorry then, i just dropped in. Maybe i can help you, but maybe rephrase your question what you want to do from where to where?
1108[14:07:46] <ratrace> dutchfish: I had no question
1109[14:08:06] <dutchfish> ratrace, ah ok, nvm then, no harm done, i hope.
1110[14:08:16] <ratrace> right :)
1111[14:08:34] <b1ackandwh1te> but, full system backup for desktop is a piece of cake.
1119[14:10:22] <bello> jmcnaught: i was using vps from my phone since about 5 years already. but first times i had pc. its broken.
1120[14:11:45] <bello> ratrace: i've Xiaomi android 8 miui phone. im not sure if it accept those you mentioned
1121[14:11:46] <ratrace> miskatonic: yes and no, they do have local filesystems. android is, after all, java userland atop of the linux kernel with selinux enforcement
1122[14:12:30] <ratrace> bello: just forget about the nonsense of backing up to a phone. get a proper computer. get another VPS, back it up there.
1123[14:13:23] <bello> ratrace: can i do all process from the phone still ?
1124[14:14:09] <ratrace> bello: if you have a terminal and ssh, technically you can. if you really want to go that route, use tar to create a "tarball" on the server, then copy that single file to your phone. don't copy the filesystem tree!
1125[14:14:11] <bello> i have bought new kvm vps. i didn't install operation system yet
1131[14:17:09] <bello> ratrace: yes i use juicessh from phone to login. i thought to take backups in my phone and copy it on new server later.
1132[14:17:32] <miskatonic> are public VPS reliable even with admin skills, or are they snooped as much as facebook and google services?
1133[14:17:57] <ratrace> define "reliable" in this context
1134[14:18:34] <ratrace> the problem with running a public server with no skills is that you don't know how to secure it, and it's compromised fast and used to attack other machines on the net. therefore you're a liability and danger to others online.
1135[14:18:34] <bello> ratrace: i bought new kvm nvme vps. my current vps was open vz debian wheezy. i think they'll be incompatible if i'll copy files there?
1136[14:19:12] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1137[14:19:16] <ratrace> bello: yes, you probably can't even copy configurations verbatim, without modifying them for new versions, new syntax changes, etc...
1138[14:20:03] *** Quits: fjavier (~fjavier@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1139[14:20:24] <ratrace> assuming the new vps is buster. otherwise hypervisor makes no difference, except openVZ is not virtualization, it's a container. so you'd be switching from a container into a VM, which also includes many differences in configuration.
1152[14:26:16] <bello> i thought so. i'll modify everything from beginning i think. but i need to back up now as i can understand.
1153[14:26:53] <bello> MySQL database will work on another vps if i'll copy it there?
1154[14:27:41] <ratrace> bello: make sure you do a full mysql dump into an SQL file like jmcnaught suggested. due to version changes (again, assuming you're migrating to buster) the SQL file might not even be compatible verbatim, and might require modifications.
1155[14:27:54] <miskatonic> if the otehr vps comes with a compatible mysql server, and the dumped data are properly committed
1156[14:28:08] <b1ackandwh1te> some storage devices and cloud services complain about file sizes for backup. download huge files from google drive is a nightmare. and ive recently experinced trouble storing big files in pendrive, i guess is because of fat filesystem.
1161[14:29:57] <ratrace> fat is.... I really have no idea why EFI opted for FAT but that's the ONLY use case one should use fat these days, unless you're toying with DOS
1179[14:40:43] <b1ackandwh1te> 7z a -mx=9, the best compression in the market.
1180[14:41:00] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
1181[14:42:07] <ratrace> that really depends
1182[14:43:26] <ratrace> and -mx=9 looks wrong. 9 is for -x but you need to specify method for m. default is deflate which is among the worst compression algos
1183[14:43:35] <bello> ratrace: i don't know how. but i want web server, mail server and databases. user files. conf files.
1184[14:44:57] <b1ackandwh1te> yes, my bad.
1185[14:45:06] <ratrace> bello: maybe best thing you back up _everything_ and sort it out later
1199[14:53:28] <bello> ratrace: how can i reset sudo user password from kvm panel? it seems i forgot my password and can't find it. but im on kvm control panel now.
1201[14:54:23] <b1ackandwh1te> ive learned from experience, the less i say the smarter i look, :P
1202[14:55:20] <jmcnaught> bello: sudo password is the user's regular password, so if you can log into the account and are in the sudo group or the sudoers file you should be able to use sudo.
1215[14:59:38] <bello> i wrote email for support and since 2 hours waiting. i hope they works today. if somebody knows how to do it here, i will do it instead waiting
1216[14:59:54] <ratrace> PonySoldier: logrotate is a default package on debian, if you don't have it, install it, and add configs for logfiles that aren't standard / covered already
1217[14:59:56] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1218[15:00:15] <ratrace> bello: we cannot possibly know what your "kvm panel" does
1219[15:00:44] <ratrace> bello: otherwise, you need to log in as root and change a user password without knowing its existing password.
1220[15:01:07] <bello> it's SolusVM
1221[15:01:24] <ratrace> some VPS providers have "cloudy" applications running in the guests so they can run these administrative tasks, password changes include, via their control "panels"
1223[15:02:11] <ratrace> if your provider doesn't do that, and you forgot all the passwords, it's rescue system boot time, and mounting your rootfs in a chroot (or if you have console access, boot with init=/bin/bash and run `passwd` once it "boots")
1224[15:02:21] <bello> ratrace: but i forbidden root login.
1225[15:02:33] <jmcnaught> PonySoldier: if something is spamming the logs it would be good to figure out which program's log files are huge, and determine why it's spamming the logs so much. Something's probably wrong, or can at least be told to shut up.
1226[15:02:40] <ratrace> bello: ah yes, because that's a container, not a vm
1227[15:02:45] <FuzzyByte> bello: Try logging in with your user account.
1253[15:12:35] <AquaL1te> hi, question about vlans in debian. i see examples where virtual interfaces are made in order to setup vlans. however, that looks like the deprecated method of ifconfig. are the docs out of date? it does mention (very) old debian releases: replaced-url
1254[15:12:41] <AquaL1te> documentation for debian 10?
1255[15:13:09] <FuzzyByte> AquaL1te: What's your problem with ifconfig? Doesn't it work?
1256[15:13:50] <AquaL1te> FuzzyByte: iproute2 tools have replaced ifconfig tools and alike for a few years already
1266[15:16:50] <AquaL1te> FuzzyByte: it's not recommended to use ifconfig, for a number of years. but anyway, that's not the question. the point is, the documentation seems unmaintained. does anyone know why it's still focused on old debian releases? is there a different page i should use for debian docs beside the debian wiki?
1267[15:16:53] <bello> FuzzyByte: its ok bro, thanks for everybody for helps.
1273[15:18:59] <AquaL1te> bello: check the man page of ifconfig itself "This program is obsolete! For replacement check ip addr and ip link. For statistics use ip -s link.", there are also examples in there when and where ifconfig fails
1274[15:19:05] <Haohmaru> well ifconfig stuff is ancient, i bet there wasn't wifi yet back then
1275[15:19:10] <petn-randall> bello: ifconfig is missing many modern features, which were replaced by newer tools.
1285[15:22:35] <qman__> ifconfig still works as well as it always did, but it doesn't support certain features
1286[15:22:37] <bello> AquaL1te: ok im familiar to ip addr. i'll use it thx
1287[15:22:46] <dadinn> not sure why this is, it seems to be complaining about mounting /boot, and local filesystems, but when I do the exact same installation using BIOS I don't have such issues
1288[15:23:00] <dadinn> so fstab/crypttab problems are unlikely
1290[15:23:26] <jmcnaught> AquaL1te: I don't know enough about VLANs to be much help, but the wiki link you provided shows ifconfig commands only for the manual set up. Did you try configuring /etc/network/interfaces the way it shows? On buster you may need to use different interface names than what's on that page.
1291[15:23:32] <qman__> I still use ifconfig sometimes depending on what I want to do; for example, clearing all addresses off an interface is easy by doing ifconfig ifname 0.0.0.0 up
1292[15:23:47] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
1293[15:24:09] <bello> petn-randall: its better to use new tools, right
1295[15:24:43] <jmcnaught> AquaL1te: maybe unpopular around here, but perhaps also consider using systemd-networkd to configure networking. Its documentation will at least be more current.
1300[15:27:17] <AquaL1te> jmcnaught: i have some configs ready to test. but if i have to believe the docs, it will create these virtual interfaces. which won't go well with pacemaker, at least, they state you shouldn't assign floating ips to virtual interfaces. using physical interfaces would exclude it from a vlan. with the docs not being maintained, i'm wondering if debian is the best choice. downside is that i want to do this
1301[15:27:23] <AquaL1te> on raspbian pi's, which raspbian supports best
1308[15:29:59] <qman__> ip addr add 1.2.3.4/24 dev eth0.222
1309[15:30:31] <AquaL1te> jmcnaught: probably so, but i'm not looking for a black box distribution, not meant in a negative way. if centos had proper images for a rpi then i would be using that
1312[15:31:35] <qman__> AquaL1te: that is how VLANs are done on linux interfaces, across all distros
1313[15:31:46] <AquaL1te> qman__: still creating an alias. not sure, but the debian network stack doesn't seem modern. networkmanager would've fixed this in a heartbeat the proper way
1314[15:32:22] <qman__> it's not a per distro thing, it's a linux kernel thing; a vlan-tagged interface is the actual interface, dot, vlan number
1315[15:32:23] <jmcnaught> AquaL1te: why not use NetworkManager then?
1321[15:34:07] <qman__> AquaL1te: can you link said pacemaker documentation that suggests you shouldn't do this? I'm curious if they're referring to something more specific
1330[15:36:55] <qman__> it's referring to the "new" method of assigning addresses to interfaces, when using the ip addr command, the address is aliased to the interface
1331[15:37:14] <qman__> (by new I mean sometime in 2.6 kernels)
1332[15:37:25] <AquaL1te> i stand corrected about the . vs : replaced-url
1337[15:38:10] <qman__> prior to iproute2, you would add multiple addresses to the same interface by creating an interface alias with a colon
1338[15:38:35] <qman__> that's completely deprecated, and now you just add addresses to an interface, interfaces support as many addresses as you need (not sure what the upper limit is)
1339[15:39:15] <AquaL1te> so the debian networking stack is up2date in that regard? it uses iproute2 (or alike) stuff to create the interfaces in /etc/interfaces?
1357[15:50:05] <b1ackandwh1te> the default graphical file managers of debian lack a find file/directory while windows explorer has this since ancient times (cant believe this is happening in 2020).
1358[15:52:18] <jmcnaught> I can search for files in Nautilus. It's the magnifying glass icon.
1359[15:52:42] <b1ackandwh1te> hum, i didnt know.
1360[15:52:59] <dadinn> hi all
1361[15:53:40] *** Quits: forgotmynick (uid24625@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1362[15:54:40] <dadinn> I am getting these errors when rebooting after a scripted installation with debootstrap, using UEFI boot: replaced-url
1363[15:54:48] <AquaL1te> b1ackandwh1te: gnome can do this perfectly, make sure you have included the dirs as indexed. not sure what debian uses. in fedora 31 with gnome 3.36, go to settings --> search --> search locations. from there you can enable folders. after indexed. you can search files in the gnome shell like spotlight on a macbook. also in nautilus you can search on the fly. if not indexed, it takes a bit longer in
1364[15:54:54] <AquaL1te> nautilus
1365[15:55:15] <dadinn> I am not sure what is going on, when I run the same scripts with BIOS boot, everything works fine
1366[15:55:49] *** Quits: ctrlbreak_MAD (~ctrlbreak@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1367[15:55:58] <miskatonic> terminal file managers are faster
1373[15:57:05] <somiaj> or just use find, been around for ages, can do lots of nifty things...
1374[15:57:08] <AquaL1te> miskatonic: depends on the context. gnome shell is super fast as well. and easy, and opens the right app to open the file as well
1380[16:00:23] <EdePopede> find is more reliable than xdg
1381[16:00:31] <miskatonic> how can gnome-shell know whether you want to edit or to execute an *.sh file?
1382[16:00:34] <EdePopede> err... file
1383[16:01:16] <somiaj> EdePopede: it is, but doesn't file just tell you info, not actually try to launch it
1384[16:01:47] <EdePopede> miskatonic: the best solution would be to stay with established standards: F3 view, F4 edit, Enter execute. F13/S-F3 may even be rawview
1385[16:02:04] <AquaL1te> EdePopede: what does that even mean? if i want to find "bob marley" and play a song. i press the hotkey "bob marley" and enter. opens the music player and done. you want to do that with find? use the right tools for the right job...
1392[16:03:47] <somiaj> Gui's have their place, provided what you want to do can fit into replaced-url
1393[16:04:07] <somiaj> problem is many want to do more than you can squeeze into a gui
1394[16:04:52] <AquaL1te> EdePopede: in gnome shell the hotkey is your windows key
1395[16:05:12] <jmcnaught> I don't think GNOME has a problem with squeezing too *many* features in ;)
1396[16:05:50] <jmcnaught> gnome-shell's model of "press super key and type to search" is my favourite GUI style
1397[16:06:25] <somiaj> Yea, I think guis should be simple and not squeeze every feature in, but many sure try to, vs a balance from when a feature should be in the gui vs just open up a terminal.
1400[16:09:53] <EdePopede> somiaj, nice text. gnome broke each of these rules already i bet?
1401[16:10:20] *** Quits: otmi (~mito@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1402[16:11:04] <b1ackandwh1te> one thing that i think is many apps are installed by defauld to a specific graphical environment. I know i can install later any tool with apt. but is a lack of standardization (for many people?).
1403[16:11:13] <miskatonic> gnome3 is broken, period
1412[16:13:24] <annadane> though i didn't hear that about torvalds
1413[16:13:34] <EdePopede> didn't they say something like "we don't build a desktop for people who like to chose their text editor"?
1414[16:13:57] <b1ackandwh1te> (im on xfce4 now :P)
1415[16:14:07] <annadane> the thing i love about xfce is the subtle ways it does little things right
1416[16:14:10] <annadane> i keep discovering little new things
1417[16:14:24] <Haohmaru> like wot?
1418[16:14:34] <annadane> can't recall any at the moment tbh :P
1419[16:15:17] <dazo> Hey! I have a colleague who installed a new Debian 10 box using debian-10.3.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso .... and when running 'apt-key' it complains about missing gnupg, gnupg2 or gnupg1 ... is this expected?
1420[16:15:48] <dazo> this is from a freshly installed system
1425[16:18:17] <dazo> eclair: sure, that works ... but ... I'm wondering if it is expected that the apt-key packaging didn't pull in gnupg as a dependency
1426[16:18:29] <dadinn> hey, sorry to interrupt, on rebooting my UEFI install I am getting into emergency mode... but since I have the root account locked, I cannot get a console to do anything
1428[16:18:58] <AquaL1te> miskatonic: that's a pretty ancient quote. linux torvalds happily uses gnome now (fedora), for a number of years already. EdePopede: search files in home or whatever you which to index. it's really nice, and really not that smart. it just indexes your files and then does a lookup in a database.
1429[16:19:29] <eclair> since debian 8, I think the dependencies are unimaginably
1435[16:21:01] *** Quits: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1436[16:21:05] <jmcnaught> dazo: by default Debian just installs the gpgv package which is a gnupg stripped down to only be able to check signatures.
1437[16:21:47] <jmcnaught> or at least, gpgv is priority important while the other gnupg packages are priority optional, but may get pulled in by other dependencies.
1438[16:21:47] <EdePopede> AquaL1te: find is pretty fast too. at least when i run it a 2nd time, so it seems the results are cached at some level, maybe even fs.
1440[16:23:24] <EdePopede> AquaL1te: is this related to gvfsd? never understood what it is good for.
1441[16:24:09] <b1ackandwh1te> one cool update would be block /bin/sh from deletion and allow boot on root with default to sh. once i did a stupid thing, installed zsh and set it to *users*, and then uninstalled zsh as other sudo user... guess what? OSs must be idiot people fail proof...
1442[16:24:13] <jmcnaught> EdePopede: do you use find to search for and open PDFs and other documents, or contacts in your address book, or special characters, or packages available to install etc? All of that and more is accessible by tapping the windows key and starting to type, including launching and switching applications.
1443[16:24:23] *** Quits: asymptotically (~asymptoti@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1444[16:24:40] <dazo> jmcnaught: ahh, thx! that makes a bit more sense ... not ideal when using 'apt-key', but I now understand how gpg verification can still happen
1445[16:24:41] <b1ackandwh1te> *all users
1446[16:24:49] <bello> i found my sudo password at last. can i reset root user password by sudo ?
1450[16:25:15] <jmcnaught> dazo: also there is a mandatory warning about adding third-party repositories: be careful, it can cause problems.
1451[16:25:23] <dadinn> is there a better channel for this?
1452[16:25:36] <ksk> b1ackandwh1te: you cannot remove sh via apt. You should not delete random files outside of /home invoking root..
1453[16:25:45] <bello> it will change root user's password? right?
1454[16:26:05] <jmcnaught> dadinn: if you're using Debian you're welcome to ask here, but you might need to be patient.
1455[16:26:16] <ksk> bello: you can check the manpages of both sudo and passwd to answer that question yourself
1456[16:26:22] <miskatonic> have you read the topic of the #dash channel?
1457[16:26:42] <ksk> the "description" should be enough to give you a basic understanding of what commands do
1458[16:26:53] <EdePopede> jmcnaught: i use a lot of text files, which includes things like markdown to be translated to html for the local httpd, sometimes i use find, sometimes mc's search. panelizes results on request and i can simply F3-View them.
1459[16:27:02] <dazo> jmcnaught: well, in this case I'm kind of the provider of a third-party repository :-P replaced-url
1461[16:27:23] <dazo> Just got some complaints the 'apt-key' instructions didn't work as expected on Deb10
1462[16:27:40] <jmcnaught> dadinn: do you have a netinst debian-installer handy? It has a rescue mode under advanced boot options, can do a chroot shell and also reinstall GRUB.
1463[16:27:49] <jmcnaught> dazo: cool!
1464[16:28:04] <bello> thanks you. :)
1465[16:29:50] <dazo> In coming weeks/months, I'll start divining into what it takes to get openvpn3 into the main Debian repositories (becoming the Debian package maintainer for it, if needed) ... but we have something which works and will publish our build scripts for it
1467[16:30:16] <dadinn> jmcnaught: I have done the installation from live CD inside KVM, so i can chroot into it and try to fix it, but I don't understand what the errors say, and the same install scripts work on BIOS boot, so I am confused what the issue is
1471[16:31:50] <dadinn> jmcnaught: it seems to have some problem with mounting local filesystems and boot, but as to my understanding that depends on correct fstab/crypttab only... and under BIOS boot, i do it exactly the same way... so i don't see why there is that issue
1472[16:32:16] <jmcnaught> dadinn: are you mounting /boot/efi?
1473[16:32:23] <ksk> dazo: Do you think OpenVPN is viable in the mid-term now that we have wireguard?
1474[16:32:52] <ksk> even from an "linux proffesional" background it is so much nicer to use - though I have not seen it in large deployments yet (also its still beta? not sure..)
1477[16:34:18] <dadinn> jmcnaught: actually good point, I have a ef00 FAT32 formatted partition mounted as /boot... then I install grub with the following command:
1482[16:35:15] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1483[16:35:18] <dazo> ksk: Yes, OpenVPN is more capable on the authentication side, for environments wanting to do SAML based user authentication, 2FA, etc
1484[16:35:19] <jmcnaught> dadinn: it's better for /boot to be ext2 and /boot/efi to be FAT32 because FAT32 does not have UNIX permissions, so your kernel is world writable
1485[16:35:21] <dadinn> i will try the LUKS encrypted /boot later on, with the separate /boot/efi... but i was thinking this should work as well
1488[16:36:02] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1489[16:36:02] *** conta1 is now known as conta
1490[16:36:08] <dazo> ksk: plus ... OpenVPN has been through several security audits and another one audit for the coming 2.5 release is also in the pipe
1495[16:37:18] <dazo> ksk: And for the performance side ... we're working on a kernel module for OpenVPN, which moves the data channel (encrypted network traffic) encryption/decryption into kernel space which boost the performance a lot
1496[16:37:27] *** Quits: keebler (~keebler@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1497[16:37:44] <ksk> will this mean openvpn will be able to utilize more than one core server-side?
1500[16:38:15] <dadinn> jmcnaught: I wasn't sure if my scripts would work with LUKS encrypted /boot and plain FAT32 /boot/efi... that would be preferrable, but first steps firsts...
1509[16:43:13] <dazo> ksk: our fairly simple preliminary internal lab tests, using a closed Amazon VPC between client and server, using an early PoC kernel module managed 4Gbit/s+ throughput on a 5Gbit/s link .... openvpn 2.x with user space was around 1 Gbit/s and the new openvpn3 client managed 1.4Gbit/s against the same server ... an open sourced OpenVPN 3 based server is also planned further down the road, which is also multi-thread capable
1515[16:48:50] <AquaL1te> EdePopede: it's cached in memory, so after a or memory cleanup you have the problem again. if you like cli, you can also use the tracker command to do searches. however, gnome shell uses tracker in the background as well. use whatever you think is best. but if speed is your goal. then use gnome shell. less typing and searches are instant since it's indexed. it also includes contacts, software in the
1516[16:48:56] <AquaL1te> repo's and more. but again, if you feel more comfy to open a libreoffice doc by using find or other cli methods. that's your choice :)
1517[16:49:36] <miskatonic> yes, I use cli commands for opening things
1536[17:00:02] <somiaj> does sound nice, though not something I personally need, so glad I don't have it eating up memeory.
1537[17:00:08] <b1ackandwh1te> i installed snap and it messed my PATH variable... GRRRRR
1538[17:00:21] <EdePopede> AquaL1te: most of all i try to avoid bloat. bad enough i need something like firefox to not get presented half of the web as unusable or broken. sometimes it needs minutes only to tell me why it is not reacting at all.
1539[17:01:06] <somiaj> b1ackandwh1te: what did it do that you don't like? It seems reasonable that you should have snap binaries added to your $PATH
1540[17:01:25] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1554[17:09:59] <b1ackandwh1te> somiaj, i could use sudo, i installed snap, and snap command was not recognized, i added snap to PATH.... now sudo and snap dont work... i just realized that *I* messed the path variable.
1555[17:10:32] <b1ackandwh1te> fk
1556[17:10:40] <ksk> thats a great first step in fixing the problem ;)
1565[17:15:17] <AquaL1te> EdePopede: that seems to be a network issue. if the other host is not sending a reject message or other network message, firefox will keep trying. lynx will do the same, if that's favorite browser. anyway use whatever you like. but be realistic with what you give as an advice to others :)
1578[17:20:02] <ksk> looking at .profile over here it seems PATH is indeed comming from a system wide location (etc/profile maybe), so adding the path like that to your user based startup scripts (~/.profile or ~/.bashrc) should do.
1582[17:21:44] *** Quits: three (~three3@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1583[17:22:58] <b1ackandwh1te> this fixed the sudo and all system binaries, but snap still dont work... export PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/lib/snap:/usr/lib/snap/snap/:/usr/share/snap:$PATH
1608[17:35:43] <ksk> b1ackandwh1te: might be your user needs to be added to a snap group or so? Did you check the wiki and manapges?
1609[17:35:50] <jmcnaught> Zewwy: restarting the network service was deprecated a long time ago. You can use ifup and ifdown on the interfaces listed in /etc/network/interfaces
1610[17:36:02] <Zewwy> Thats should be in the wikik
1611[17:36:06] <Zewwy> thanks
1612[17:36:07] <b1ackandwh1te> ksk, not yet!
1613[17:36:28] <jmcnaught> Zewwy: that wiki page does not say to restart the networking service
1620[17:38:37] <somiaj> Zewwy: as jmcnaught said, you use 'ifup interface' and 'ifdown interface' to bring up and down interfaces in the interfaces file.
1621[17:38:50] <Zewwy> yes i know thank you for that info
1625[17:40:50] <Zewwy> Thanks. :) my follow up suggestions are merely constructive critisim on the wiki to hopefully make it more transparent and easier for everyone in the future
1626[17:41:24] <somiaj> though you woul dhave to notice the 'see also' part, so I can see it not being clear that the interfaces file interacts with the ifupdown package (though it says it rightin the wiki, it does mention ifupdown
1627[17:41:43] <somiaj> but yea, the focus is how to create an interfaces file, you need to also know that it connects to the ifupdown package
1630[17:41:55] <jmcnaught> Zewwy: it's a good point, that page should mention ifup and ifdown. Maybe I'll edit it later today if you don't get to it first ;)
1717[18:34:03] <CarlFK> what in grub.cfg will dumb down the video so that my cranky display will display it? (/boot/.. grub.cfg so that it is kinda temporary as I am experimenting )
1718[18:35:03] <CarlFK> i don't see the grub menu, lcd stays 'off' until x desktop login.
1799[19:50:57] <grzes> hi there, i have debian 10, i installed msmtp msmtp-mta packages and i am able to send email from shell but somehow cron emails are not sent :(
1818[20:01:57] <somiaj> ahh it is just a relay that uses some other SMTP to send
1819[20:01:57] <grzes> petn-randall: in /etc/cron.d i created a file with MAILTO=some@email.com
1820[20:02:36] <grzes> msmtp is a proxy to external SMTP server
1821[20:03:07] <petn-randall> msmtp-mta does not provide "mail-transport-agent", and does not conflict with any other nullmailer. So I'm strongly assuming it actually isn't a nullmailer.
1822[20:03:17] <petn-randall> !nullmailer
1823[20:03:17] <dpkg> well, nullmailer is a minimal <MTA> for hosts which just sends directly to smart relays. Does not support /etc/aliases; define a catch-all alias in /etc/nullmailer/adminaddr instead, see adminaddr(5). replaced-url
1824[20:03:30] <petn-randall> grzes: You want an actual nullmailer. ^^^
1825[20:04:03] <grzes> petn-randall: ok i will give it a shot then
1826[20:04:41] <ratrace> ssmtp is deadware. I'd recommend dma
1835[20:08:10] <ratrace> dma? yes, dragonfly mail agent
1836[20:08:15] <karlpinc> ratrace: Yeah. But I tend to stick with "one thing" that will do everything, so that when I want it to do more it can.
1837[20:08:19] <somiaj> I just use the exim4-daemon-light with local system configuration that is default.
1838[20:08:25] <miskatonic> is dma handled by systemd or does it not work as a daemon at all?
1839[20:08:38] <jmcnaught> It works, I trust it, it's under active development, I use Postfix on my actual MTA. It's not like it takes up a lot of disk space.
1840[20:08:52] <karlpinc> I'm wondering what the strict definition of a null mailer is. A forwarding only MTA?
1841[20:09:01] <ratrace> miskatonic: it's not a daemon because it needn't be a daemon. it installs a sendmail-compatible binary and runs SMTP with the configured upstream, on demand
1842[20:09:41] <karlpinc> Seems like the main MTAs all have a dpkg-reconfigure option for "relay only", so it's simple enough to use any of them. Or that's what I hear.
1843[20:10:08] <ratrace> karlpinc: "forwarding" has a different meaning in context of e-mail, and nullmailer is not that
1844[20:10:45] <ratrace> typically a "nullmailer" is a submission agent that uses an actual MTA to submit mail to.
1845[20:11:07] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
1848[20:11:48] <ratrace> (the said MTA can be anywhere in the network, needn't be locally installed)
1849[20:11:53] <karlpinc> ratrace: Do you think it has to supply an interface other than submission? I'm thinking of the "sendmail" command, which is still sorta-kinda-standard.
1861[20:14:16] <ratrace> a PHP script that runs local sendmail needn't speak SMTP. but local sendmail can be a DMA submission agent that then submits that mail to an actual MTA that queues it and relays forward.
1862[20:15:20] <karlpinc> ratrace: So how does a "null mailer" fit in then? What distinguishes it from a DMA?
1863[20:15:52] <ratrace> the confusion here is that a "nullmailer" is both a class of programs, and a program itself called nullmailer
1864[20:15:58] *** Quits: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1865[20:16:15] <karlpinc> ratrace: Right. I'm curious about the "class of programs" definition.
1866[20:16:30] <ratrace> dma, in this case, is just a sendmail-compatible program that uses smtp with the configured MTA to send out an email
1996[22:23:58] <mystic> anyoen know how to get qtox working?
1997[22:25:09] <annadane> are you having specific issues with it?
1998[22:25:34] <mystic> it wont run when i click it
1999[22:25:48] <mystic> use to run before i upgraded from ubuntu 18 to 20
2000[22:25:50] <greycat> try running it in a terminal, and see if it produces useful errors
2001[22:25:54] <greycat> Oh. Byte.
2002[22:25:57] <greycat> Bye*
2003[22:26:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
2004[22:26:13] <mystic> ?
2005[22:26:15] <sney> !ubuntuirc
2006[22:26:15] <dpkg> This is not the Ubuntu help channel. Please do /server chat.freenode.net and then /join #ubuntu. If you are using HexChat, you can right-click the following link and choose connect. irc://chat.freenode.net/ubuntu
2007[22:26:20] <annadane> debian != ubuntu, ask ubuntu people
2034[22:41:59] <sney> freenode (still) officially refers to chat.freenode.net as the server address: replaced-url
2035[22:42:07] * greycat wonders whether OFTC's #debian gets any Ubuntubies.
2036[22:42:40] <annadane> not... much?
2037[22:42:48] <sney> greycat: we used to get them all the time but it's been a while. possibly due to the hexchat defaults patch
2038[22:42:51] <annadane> it's predominantly kali and parrot
2039[22:43:02] <greycat> *shudder*
2040[22:43:10] <annadane> with a healthy sprinkle of mx
2041[22:43:26] <annadane> though it's cut down; now it's a bunch of people saying "hi" and not asking questions and leavin
2042[22:43:27] <annadane> g
2043[22:43:54] * sney will never get over the humor of wannabe hackers running a chat client and announcing to a room full of strangers that they want to break into other networks/machines
2044[22:44:07] <sney> real good opsec right there
2045[22:44:13] <annadane> no, no, it's *ethical* hacking
2053[22:50:37] <war9407> Google Chrome on Linux - the latest update, the fonts & UI shrunk horribly with the latest update. It only goes back to normal with: /usr/bin/google-chrome-stable --force-device-scale-factor=1
2054[22:50:50] <war9407> Is there a place I need to set this in my .gtkrc or elsehwere so it just looks normal without specifying that flag?
2065[22:57:29] *** Quits: gravitos (uid355353@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2066[22:58:09] <b1ackandwh1te> just my opinion: windows 10 iso is already above 5GB, we have blueray, pendrives big in market, make available bigger complete iso is desirable, instead of having to manage many CDs, DVDs... sombody will say, go for a netinst iso and solved... well.. just a think....
2072[23:01:02] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
2095[23:13:35] *** Quits: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2096[23:15:12] <jhutchins> b1ackandwh1te: Most people only need the first DVD. Why download a bluray image when you don't need most of it?
2097[23:17:16] <b1ackandwh1te> i agree, i never (in the first installation) reached the second DVD. but someone could need a more complete first installation, dont know jhutchins...
2100[23:18:05] <sney> downloading the whole package archive is really only justified in situations where the system wouldn't have a reliable internet connection
2102[23:18:43] <b1ackandwh1te> well, think, why the default installation *always* ask for taht contest more user apps?
2103[23:18:48] <sney> those situations exist, so the images are available, but most users are better suited by downloading only needed packages via apt
2113[23:20:00] <dpkg> [popcon] the Debian Popularity contest, the basis for what packages appear on the first few CDs/DVDs etc (by rank). Install the popularity-contest package to participate. See the results at replaced-url
2114[23:20:43] <jhutchins> miskatonic: Do you use a language other than English?
2153[23:38:44] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2154[23:38:45] <b1ackandwh1te> is way faster install from local than it is from internet.
2155[23:39:03] <greycat> I installed buster for the first time today. My workplace firewall's refusal to let an HTTP mirror work kinda sucked, but I was able to install things after rebooting into Debian and manually editing sources.list.
2157[23:39:52] <greycat> I learned things. For example, I learned that if you can't get a mirror to work during the install, the tasksel menu only contains "Standard" and nothing else. (Assuming you used a CD image.)
2158[23:40:11] <greycat> I also learned that there's no user interface support for using an HTTPS mirror.
2159[23:41:00] <petn-randall> greycat: That sounds like a weird policy, sorry to hear that.
2202[23:58:39] <b1ackandwh1te> and for automated recovery/installation of an original big system, would be *fast*. more then 1 installation with same big spec.