45[00:30:11] *** Quits: tgunr (~davec@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
46[00:30:23] <HelloShitty> it doesn't work via sane or xsane
47[00:30:31] <HelloShitty> that's why I came here to try to get some more help
48[00:30:44] <somiaj> HelloShitty: ahh didn't fully read your problem, thanks for the clarification.
49[00:31:03] <joepublic> in my experience, "it isn't supported by sane/xsane" is about equivalent to "The scanner isn't going to work"
50[00:31:15] <joepublic> is it on their compatible scanners list?
51[00:31:20] <somiaj> HelloShitty: You aren't lucky enough to have a device that will just email you a .pdf of the scan, you need an actual applicationt o use the scanner?
52[00:31:34] <HelloShitty> It was working but yesteray I got a problem ib my router and I ha to reset it and reconfigure it
54[00:31:37] <joepublic> I scan to usb stick to get around a similar problem
55[00:31:41] <HelloShitty> and now I can only use the printer, not the scanner
56[00:31:56] <HelloShitty> I always use xsane to scann documents
57[00:31:58] <somiaj> I'm use to more complicated machines that can just email me a .pdf of the scan and not need software on my machine to do it.
58[00:32:37] <HelloShitty> ok, nevermind peeps
59[00:33:10] <HelloShitty> I cannot afford today to try more aggressive approaches because I'm deppendant of my aughter due to online classes
60[00:33:24] <HelloShitty> and I need at least to print her school assignments
61[00:33:45] <HelloShitty> an to scan documents an send them to teacher, I'll have to take pictures with my smartphone
62[00:33:49] <somiaj> HelloShitty: well to me it sounds like the problem is in the router, do you do this over ip.
63[00:33:58] <HelloShitty> and tomorrow, it's friday, so I think I can try other approcahes
64[00:34:00] <joepublic> you say the event was with the router. does the printer/scanner work over USB?
65[00:34:07] <somiaj> HelloShitty: install genius scan, it is really easy and creates very good scans (better than a picture)
66[00:34:30] <HelloShitty> yesterday the router problem was fixed
67[00:34:36] <somiaj> HelloShitty: that is just a I need a method now and have a smartphone solution. As for your problem if something use to work and didn't and the change was the router, I would expect the issue to be there
68[00:34:42] <HelloShitty> the printer is conencted to the router because I can see it
69[00:34:48] <somiaj> but in fixing it maybe configurations changed and the full issue wasn't fixed.
70[00:34:51] <HelloShitty> but this is probalbly some IP misconfiguration
83[00:37:19] <HelloShitty> see you tomorrow... Thanks
84[00:37:23] <somiaj> HelloShitty: again look up genius scan for your smart phone (I have my students use it). It doesn't fix your scanner problem, but it may deal with the creating a scan problem for the time
85[00:37:38] <HelloShitty> ah ok
86[00:37:41] <HelloShitty> I'll give it a try
87[00:37:46] <lwp> HelloShitty, My only guess at a suggestion, is to delete those scanner config files with the wrong IP from ~/.sane/xsane and then re-run whatever you did to create those files in the first place.
88[00:38:15] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
89[00:38:16] <HelloShitty> I guess that is hp-setup but hp-setup cannot detect any scanner
158[01:41:53] <denniss> I don't understand how to rename network interfaces: they always get renamed automagically by ... I don't know. Can anyone help me with this?
159[01:43:23] *** Quits: c0mrad3 (uid26809@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
160[01:44:06] <denniss> I read things about the classic udev rules, about the systemd-networkd, about udev.conf and naming policies, but everything I've intented until now has failed
170[01:47:24] *** Quits: tyzef (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
171[01:47:44] <denniss> phogg: yes, I have a udev rule that creates this interface
172[01:47:55] <denniss> it is named ap0 when created
173[01:48:13] <denniss> but then, instantly, it gets renamed to renameXX
174[01:48:26] <denniss> XX is a random number
175[01:49:02] <phogg> I don't know, systemd likely tries to screw with things also
176[01:49:04] <denniss> I tried to create a /etc/systemd/netxor/10-myif.link
177[01:49:17] *** Quits: s-h-i-n-o-b-i (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
178[01:49:19] <denniss> but didnt' work
179[01:49:26] <phogg> I don't know anything about systemd (I don't use it)
180[01:49:28] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
181[01:49:35] <denniss> yes, I don't know what exactly is renaming
182[01:49:51] <denniss> phogg: ok
183[01:50:52] <denniss> Well, reading the debian documentation, I really want to make some effort to do it the "new" way, but... man, one full afternoon without result, it's getting seriously puzzling
223[02:05:37] <lwp> denniss, don't know if it helps, but there's also this factoid:
224[02:05:40] <lwp> !dpni
225[02:05:41] <dpkg> To disable Predictable Network Interface naming and revert back to the old interface naming, run "ln -s /dev/null /etc/systemd/network/99-default.link" as root (without quotes). Creating this symbolic link prevents systemd from being able to change interface names. You will need to unplug/replug your device or reboot/reload module. Alternatively add net.ifnames=0 to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX in /etc/default/grub then run update-grub and reboot.
319[04:02:34] <JustTheDoctor> well when i try to do ./configure on one of my apps i wanna compile it says, A compiler with support for C++17 language features is required.
328[04:08:20] <sney> JustTheDoctor: according to gnu, c++17 has been in g++ since gcc version 5. debian 9 has gcc version 6.3. it should work, your configure script may have a bug
329[04:08:32] <dvs> !firmware iso
330[04:08:32] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
342[04:12:31] <dvs> foul_owl, anyways, I think you can copy the firmware files to a separate USB drive and select that drive when the installer asks for the firmware.
343[04:13:40] <lwp> foul_owl, if you have a working live CD, you can use the calamares installer inside the running live system, to install a permanent system.
344[04:13:43] <lwp> !calamares
345[04:13:43] <dpkg> Starting in Debian 10 Buster, the Calamares installer is included in the debian-live boot images. The (somewhat unreliable?) normal installer is also included, as one of the choices in the first menu after boot. Once in the live system look for an Install Debian icon, or type: sudo calamares See replaced-url
387[04:25:29] <lwp> I am out of here in 3 minutes, sorry. maybe others will try to help, if you try to explain what kind of firmware you think you need.
392[04:26:00] <lwp> or, as I suggested earlier, if the live system works OK for you, just use the "install debian" function of the live system, and then modify the installed system.
393[04:26:16] <foul_owl> I understand that is a workaround
394[04:26:16] <lwp> !ping
395[04:26:17] <dpkg> Yes, lwp you are either online or you are not... replaced-url
396[04:26:38] <foul_owl> My goal is to resolve the issue of missing firmware from the debian isos "off the shelf"
397[04:26:53] <foul_owl> As a diff across isos for "firmware" should have no output
398[04:27:06] <foul_owl> As long as the iso in question is the "firmware" iso
399[04:27:36] <lwp> foul_owl, if you can get a more specific complaint of some specific firmware that should be added to one of those images, then file a bug
400[04:27:48] <foul_owl> I have that right here: replaced-url
401[04:27:54] <foul_owl> That is the diff...
402[04:29:10] <foul_owl> To me, it would be the same as including a different kernel version between the livecd and the netinst. It's simply a mistake
403[04:29:54] <foul_owl> Anyways, thank you for the help!
410[04:36:56] <dvs> If the live and nonlive ISOs have different kernels then the ISOs were created at different times. I thought that they would be built at the same time too.
445[05:27:15] <lwp> foul_owl, in the same download directories as the debian-live+nonfree .iso files, are also corresponding .contents and .log files. in the parent directory of the download location for the .netinst images, are found directories named list-cd, and log
560[08:21:13] <somiaj> choice: why do you need lynx, is your goal to download something on this machine? Or what is the point of using this maching to browose the internet
561[08:21:46] <choice> somiaj: I only have this machine.
563[08:22:27] <somiaj> ahh okay, was just seeing if maybe wget or curl would work.
564[08:22:49] <choice> wget works.
565[08:22:53] <somiaj> anyways, you can copy binaries into your $HOME and run them, if they are missing libaries you have to deal with that issues as ayekat pointed out
566[08:23:54] <choice> somiaj: Ok, but how to get a lynx binary in the first place?
567[08:23:57] <themill> you'd also need to have all its dependencies unpackaged
568[08:25:00] <themill> (also how is this on-topic for both #debian and #ubuntu?)
569[08:25:09] <kopper> themill: and #bash
570[08:25:22] <themill> yay.
571[08:26:00] <kopper> choice: Is asking the administrator out of the question?
709[10:09:16] <simplicius> for some reason I don't have anymore programs like ristretto and the snap-shot taker.. I don't remember the name of the last
711[10:10:17] <xormor> simplicius, commandline: "apt search ristretto" without the quotation marks.
712[10:10:59] <simplicius> the problem is I don't remember the name of the screenshot taker.. Do all these program come from a same package?
713[10:12:42] <xormor> simplicius, by default - no.
714[10:13:40] <simplicius> it seems that al these programs related to images were removed
715[10:13:46] *** Quits: dooglus (~biufter@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
716[10:13:48] <xormor> $ apt search screenshot
717[10:13:56] <xormor> simplicius, by an upgrade
718[10:15:25] <xormor> simplicius, can you rollback? or can you just install the programs one by one? all of the 3 packages individually. do you use the commandline interface or a visual package manager? just search for the terms related to the application program.
738[10:35:23] *** Plasmoduck_ is now known as Plasmoduck
739[10:35:50] <ws2k3> im running glusterfs on debian 9. when i do service glusterfs-server stop. there still is a glusterfsd running which does not seem to stop. how should i close that?
748[10:37:23] <jomofcw> How can I force any files/folder created in a folder (and its subfolders) to have myUser:myGroup as owner, please ?
749[10:37:59] <ksk> ws2k3: I dont know glusterfs, but maybe take a look at what stop-command the systemd unit executes, and if that should stop that deamon or not
750[10:38:14] <ksk> like "systemctl show glusterfs-server"
751[10:38:29] <ws2k3> ksk: it seems that only stops the glusterd daemon and not the glusterfsd
753[10:39:01] <ksk> jomofcw: all files you create will belong to your use. If you want to change owners of existing files, you can utilize the "chown" command (as root)
754[10:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1352
755[10:39:10] <ksk> *to your user.
756[10:39:25] <ksk> ws2k3: then, is there another service/unit of that name glusterfsd?
760[10:41:01] <jomofcw> ksk hello. Currently when I create a file, it belong to myUser:myUser. I need to change this to automaticaly create files with owner myUser:myGroup. I know it's possible because I've alrezdy done it previously but I can't remember the command :/.
761[10:41:50] *** Quits: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
762[10:43:46] <ksk> files are created with your primary group as far as I know.
827[11:34:32] <netcrash> Hello, not sure if anyone uses it , but using feh or other openbox wallpaper setter , can I set a wallpaper per screen/desktop ?
840[11:41:16] <miskatonic> derivatives may easily introduce incompatibilities
841[11:42:15] <ansimita> !frankendebian
842[11:42:15] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
846[11:46:09] <oxek> I'll try to be more specific with my questions regarding those commands:
847[11:46:37] <oxek> I understand that it downloads a gpg key from the internet and adds it to apt. Is there a way of ensuring that this key is only valid for the signal repo and not for debian repos?
849[11:47:39] <oxek> I see that a repository is added, is there a way of restricting it so that e.g. if a tampered version of firefox appears on it, then apt update will not automatically pull it just because it is newer than the version in debian repos?
851[11:48:53] <BenNZ> oxek: if a repo would allow a tampered version of firefox , then why would you want to use it ?
852[11:49:08] <miskatonic> I install a lot of stuff from github, sourceforge, cpan, pypi etc. which is not available in debian repositories
853[11:50:14] <oxek> BenNZ: I just want to be safer, that's all. I have higher trust in debian repos than in signal repos. I don't want to suddenly see my kernel being updated from signal repos due to signal repos being compromised.
854[11:50:21] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
862[11:53:41] <oxek> it's like having a company - your employees have badges that let them in, but you're not gonna give every customer walking through the door the same badge that lets employees walk around freely.
863[11:53:45] <oxek> and you need customers...
864[11:53:56] <towo^work> download the source, build yourself
865[11:54:04] <BenNZ> oxek: but why accept software from someone you dont trust
867[11:54:39] <oxek> BenNZ: because I have to because I use it for work.
868[11:54:57] <BazookaTooth> oxek: you can't make trade-offs when using outside repo/ppa
869[11:55:33] <miskatonic> what is ppa?
870[11:55:35] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
871[11:55:54] <oxek> am I really the first person to come up with the idea of limiting the possible damage a malicious repo could do? Surely apt has some mechanisms already - and I can't find them.
873[11:56:14] <BenNZ> oxek: no people usually only install software from trusted sources
874[11:56:18] <BazookaTooth> apt does exactly what you tell it too
875[11:56:32] <ansimita> !ppa | miskatonic
876[11:56:37] <ansimita> !ppa
877[11:56:37] <dpkg> [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see replaced-url
878[11:57:28] <BenNZ> oxek: and it is possible to 'cherry pick' what software you want from a repo , but even then if the repo is untrusted i dont see the point , if one software in that repo is 'tampered' with , the rest cant be trusted either
882[11:58:20] <oxek> well I am trying to do the best I can wrt frankendebian and so on, but I also need to work
883[11:58:37] <BazookaTooth> !frankendebian
884[11:58:38] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
885[11:58:51] <oxek> I know debian aspires to various ideals, but they are not achievable in the real world for most
886[11:58:56] <BazookaTooth> so you already know you are doing things wrong
887[11:59:04] <oxek> yes
888[11:59:13] <oxek> but I want to do it less wrong as opposed to perfectly correct
889[12:00:11] <BazookaTooth> and you think others without more resources have already tried and failed withou.. nevermind
890[12:00:36] <oxek> I don't understand
891[12:00:42] <BenNZ> oxek: what youre wanting to do is lick one side of the stripper pole because you know the other side isnt good ....
892[12:00:44] <BazookaTooth> go reinvent the wheel
899[12:03:23] <BenNZ> oxek: i only add repos that i trust
900[12:04:19] <BazookaTooth> oxek: come tell us that when you grabbed a bad ppa/repo and your shit turned into a nice botnet
901[12:05:15] <BazookaTooth> you won't notice right away
902[12:05:17] <oxek> I don't think this line of discussion is being productive, so I'll get back to my issue: What danger am I exposing myself to by running the commands in replaced-url
903[12:05:39] <oxek> I am new, so please bear with me if I don't understand right away
912[12:08:21] <BenNZ> oxek: it will install software that you dont trust to do go knows what all the while ensuring you can install/remove any other software because of dep hell
913[12:08:40] <BenNZ> cant install/remove
914[12:08:50] <oxek> BenNZ: I trust it to do what it says on the can for now, but I don't trust it that it will not start downloading linux kernel upgrades from it in the future for example
915[12:09:06] <BazookaTooth> ...
916[12:09:19] <BazookaTooth> but lemme guess you are going to do it anyway
917[12:09:32] <oxek> not necessarily
918[12:10:07] <oxek> e.g. yesterday I successfully backported a package from debian sid into stable thanks to guidance here, so I can probably compile some stuff
919[12:10:20] <oxek> but this looks a level more difficult because the sources are not in debian sid
920[12:10:38] *** Quits: dselect (~dselect@replaced-ip) (Quit: ouch... that hurt)
928[12:12:08] <miskatonic> do dpkg force installs count as frankendebian?
929[12:12:11] <oxek> Space_Man: thanks, reading it now
930[12:12:24] <BazookaTooth> and stop expecting apt to give a shit about security. it just does what you tell it too
931[12:12:39] <ayekat> more brokendebian than frankendebian
932[12:12:54] <oxek> BazookaTooth: so perhaps I am looking for a better tool than apt. I am new, so I don't know what tools there are.
933[12:12:55] <BazookaTooth> ayekat: pretty sure they are aware
934[12:13:34] <BazookaTooth> oxek: there is no package tool that cares about security. if you feed it the wrong thing.. it is going to own you
935[12:14:48] <BazookaTooth> being new is not an excuse.. you are reminded constantly to not use 3rd party repos
936[12:16:43] <EdePopede> oxek, i was looking for it since i couldn't see it on debian. found this forum post with exactly your question and with this fine answer with a great link to the ubuntu forum: replaced-url
939[12:18:20] <oxek> Space_Man: the flatpak thing looks interesting, it might be what I am looking for. I'll read up a bit more about it, it looks like it even has some sort of sandboxing to prevent the app from taking over the system, so it might be a better tool than apt in this case.
957[12:33:48] <EdePopede> oxek: i looked into their files, they seem to have 2 different versions of the client and one in beta. can't see a reason for the first thing.
958[12:34:44] <oxek> "can't see a reason for the first thing" what does that mean? English is not my first language.
959[12:35:11] <oxek> I know they say that their repo contains the stable version and a beta version
960[12:35:18] <oxek> and they are installed with different names
964[12:37:19] <oxek> 1.33.3 was released today, so maybe a bug in their repo that they haven't removed the older version?
965[12:37:34] <oxek> I don't really understand how it works
966[12:38:37] <EdePopede> and if you're only concerned about their repo cluttering your system, but not about the client itself, it is as i expected it: everything goes into /opt, only the usual icons and docs and the desktop file into /usr. so you may as well dl it, and then unpack manually. but then it would be up to you ofc to stay up-to-date with fixes
968[12:40:40] <oxek> that's a relief to hear, thanks for checking that out. How did you find out? I'd like to learn so that I can do that myself without having to bother people in this channel with possibly very beginner questions.
969[12:40:44] <EdePopede> the postinst doesn't do more than the one for erm.. the other, proprietary, system everyone uses now. creates a link to the binary, updates mime, but then...
970[12:40:46] <EdePopede> # SUID chrome-sandbox for Electron 5+
973[12:42:11] <EdePopede> besides the fact that i don't like electron and then not have the ressource to run such a thing (tried Franz! some years ago, was a nice idea, but really, no) i surely won't run a MESSENGER SUID ROOT
981[12:46:50] <EdePopede> heh, even on the same site replaced-url
982[12:47:11] <oxek> ok so signal having SUID set is a bad thing. Is that malicious or a bug or intentional to get around some problem? (probably a question for signal devs, sorry)
998[12:56:02] <oxek> miskatonic: is that a question for me?
999[12:57:02] <EdePopede> ah, the other system i was referring to is Discord. same issues here. electron, suid root. that's exactly why i don't just curl | sudo packages from teh webz.
1005[12:59:29] <EdePopede> messengers using open protocols (irc, xmpp) surely can be replaced. just a matter of taste here. something that obviously doesn't work with proprietary crap like Discord and facebook.
1006[12:59:52] <oxek> signal claims to be opensource
1007[13:00:07] <EdePopede> oxek: existing programs are rewritten from scratch or new ones don't support anything but electron?
1008[13:00:31] <EdePopede> it is, and this gives you (theoretically at least) the freedom to use another client
1009[13:00:46] <EdePopede> of course someone would have to develop one first :)
1013[13:04:25] <EdePopede> oh. in the EU the parlament uses it and now also the commission. in the meantime Signal may stop supporting USA because of their Earn IT Act.
1019[13:05:29] <oxek> and both are electron-based on desktops
1020[13:05:34] <EdePopede> better than Discord or Whatsapp for sure. or even Zoom, which seems to be just a bad joke.
1021[13:06:00] <oxek> discord and whatsapp are also electron based. Everything is electron based :(
1022[13:06:10] <EdePopede> that's why i use irc. lots of clients without the need to install some SUID google browser
1023[13:06:17] <EdePopede> !sns
1024[13:06:18] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
1025[13:06:25] <EdePopede> just the sns webapp crap
1026[13:06:38] <miskatonic> so signal is for communication between computers across teh net, not between processes on the same computer? I had not understood that initially.
1027[13:06:38] <EdePopede> written by cay latte slurping yuppies
1028[13:06:56] <oxek> miskatonic: yeah, it's a chat app like ICQ
1029[13:07:34] <EdePopede> i really don't get it why people always have to use the newest shiny chat app with no value added compared to the old ones.
1031[13:07:55] <oxek> EdePopede: again, wasn't my choice, but i have to use it for work
1032[13:08:37] <EdePopede> skype was rewritten in electron some years ago, so i stopped using it. was a replacement for Ekiga which i didn't find really usable some more years back.
1034[13:08:57] <EdePopede> oxek: yea, and someone made the decision to use this particular system
1035[13:09:00] *** Quits: user217_ (~user217_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1036[13:09:05] <oxek> on windows, I ran it sandboxed, so I wasn't that worried, but on linux I don't know anything about sandboxes yet, so I am looking for the next best thing I am able to do with my current skillset
1042[13:10:51] *** Quits: user217_ (~user217_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1043[13:10:55] <oxek> I am looking at the flatpak version of signal-messenger from replaced-url
1044[13:11:00] <EdePopede> i don't really have an idea which model would be fitting on linux. there are many ways to run software separated from the rest of the system
1045[13:11:03] <oxek> it does not add any apt repositories nor does it use apt
1046[13:11:04] <miskatonic> icq seems to be more of a protocol than an app, as there are a variety of icq clients. I remember having used icq with a ncurses-based clients at the turn of the century
1047[13:11:20] <EdePopede> licq maybe
1048[13:11:25] <oxek> and the flatpak thing also seems to use some sandboxing
1049[13:11:42] <oxek> does using flatpak break debian or make a frankendebian or lead to dependency hell?
1050[13:11:44] <EdePopede> didn't they support xmpp for years and then stopped it?
1052[13:11:54] <EdePopede> same with fb messenger iirc
1053[13:12:43] <EdePopede> oxek: apt is just the management, there wouldn't even have been a need to create a .deb, a tarball would have been enough, just like firefox does it.
1054[13:13:19] <EdePopede> it's only for the convenience regarding updates i think
1055[13:13:49] <EdePopede> because it's just 3 commands after unpacking (and some files, granted)
1112[13:47:20] <EdePopede> joepublic: while i was rebuilding the new sysdisk on the other PC i took the opportunity to dd the live iso to a partition. just because. could be a usecase to have a live system around without the need of an extra drive. or maybe for some raw data, but no idea what kind of software wouldn't use a file on a fs.
1189[15:01:45] <holycow> does anyone know why on debian 10, gtk based apps that can stream sound by default change the pcm volume instead of just be mixed independently?
1191[15:03:00] <holycow> i can't use sites like youtube or whatever without absolutely destroying my speakers when adjusting the volume of any single youtube stream
1242[15:42:50] <shtrb> What is the proper approach for mongodb server these days: install from stretch , install from mongodb offical repo or something else ?
1283[16:02:26] <miskatonic> i do not know what golang-github-juju-testing is (not exitant in stretch), but I assume that it did not make it to buster, either ... at best to buster contrib?
1284[16:04:24] <shtrb> sorry I had pasted the wrong bug , mongodb-server had been removed from buster and all it's deps
1290[16:06:54] <Xogium> hi folks… Hopefully quick question, I have to install the package that provides ifconfig on a debian 10 box… I checked and net-tools is already installed yet ifconfig is missing, what else am I missing ? Yeah, I don't like net-tools/ifconfig and I know it has been replaced by iproute2, but the software I use needs it
1291[16:06:55] <eth01> hi, I'm looking to start a project of offering debian vps'es to the foss community for learning and development, is this something that would be of interest?
1292[16:07:25] <holycow> Xogium: sudo ifconfig
1293[16:07:32] <Xogium> huh
1294[16:07:32] <shtrb> Xogium, /usr/sbin/ifconfig
1295[16:07:51] <Xogium> hm, how come using it as my own user fails ?
1296[16:08:02] <Xogium> it just says ifconfig command not found
1297[16:08:17] <shtrb> You are running without it being in the PATH (sbin is not in path for normal users)
1298[16:08:17] <joepublic> because it's in sbin
1299[16:08:17] <Xogium> I've never used debian before so…
1309[16:09:41] <holycow> would anyone know why gtk apps that can stream sound set the pcm volume instead of get mixed as relative volume like apps using any other toolkit?
1310[16:09:51] <Xogium> hmmm alright
1311[16:09:59] <joepublic> to become root, use `su -` or `su -l` and not just `su` if you want the proper path including /sbin
1312[16:09:59] <miskatonic> sorry, i just selected a common first name by hazard
1330[16:16:13] <Xogium> but seeing that its more a ddclient config issue, that's not related to debian so I won't bother the channel more with this ;) thanks for explaining about ifconfig and the default path
1348[16:29:14] <dacencora> Hey guys! This directory usually has .isos in it, but it doesn't have any right now. replaced-url
1349[16:29:44] <miskatonic> is there an alternative to mongo? I fear it is a niche that cannot be filled easily by sql servers or arbitrary nosql servers
1360[16:34:46] <shtrb> miskatonic, There are better solution if you are on a design level , but I just wish to take something that used to work at stretch in buster. And my question was about what would better to use old versions from debian repo or using upstream versions.
1395[16:50:57] <sgo11> hi, I am not sure if I should ask this question here. Why can I use "ipset -N" but ipset manpage doesn't have "-N" argument? Thanks a lot.
1400[16:53:57] <bmomjian> Does this Debian buster kernel message just mean someone is trying to attack my server, and I can ignore it? RPC: fragment too large: 50331691
1407[16:57:44] <dacencora> So I am wondering, because I like rolling release more than I like numbered releases, is Sid more secure than testing? I know stable is the most secure, but how is Sid?
1448[17:23:38] <x0n> anyone here knowledgable with node.js? I'm trying to install from source package, build goes through but unit tests fail. I'll take that risk. how to disable the tests though? the makefile has lots of references to tests, can't have to rip them all out or must I?
1449[17:23:55] <miskatonic> badsector: not supported by whom or what?
1559[18:54:38] <mutantturkey> good morning. I am using sysvinit on buster and I have a problem booting. it is hanging during boot so I do not get a console. I am looking for strategies to debug this
1560[18:55:26] <greycat> f8e4: I've never heard that one. It sounds like rubbish.
1585[19:05:14] <mutantturkey> i am going to edit the boot params via grub
1586[19:05:21] <mutantturkey> 'doing this through digitalocean so its a bit weird
1587[19:05:22] <Choumou> Hi ! I'm trying to start a program at debian startup (before gnome startup). I tried to put my scrit into /etc/rc.local but it blocked gnome startup. Do you know how to start a script without block gnome ?
1588[19:05:40] <somiaj> mutantturkey: you will proibably still need a recovery method even if you figure out what service is hanging
1589[19:05:41] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1607[19:12:26] <Choumou> Hi again ! How can i be sure that my startup program is launched ? Cause it doesn't seem to be launch when i look at the "startup logs"
1608[19:12:30] <mutantturkey> Choumou: somiaj yeah, recovery mode works so it's not a problem
1609[19:12:57] <mutantturkey> somiaj: that certainly made the kernel boot process more verbose, butwhen it gets to services it isn't any mor everbose and then is stuck
1611[19:14:20] <somiaj> well it tells you last thing that worked, which helps you identify which service is having roblems
1612[19:14:32] <mutantturkey> that'd be /var/log/messages?
1613[19:14:39] <somiaj> Choumou: I smell an XY problem, my guess is rc.local is not the best way to achive your goal. What is your goal.
1614[19:14:49] <mutantturkey> yeah i tihnk pdns might be bailing, cool somiaj
1615[19:15:03] <joepublic> also, /var/log/kern.log substantially contains dmesg from the last boot
1616[19:15:03] <Choumou> My goal is to start a programm before gnome startup
1617[19:15:03] <somiaj> mutantturkey: often times the service freezes before any logs are produced, so you have to manually debug it, maybe disable the service and so on
1618[19:15:05] <greycat> rc.local is a quick hack, and if you want logging or any real management possibilities, use a systemd unit
1619[19:15:25] <greycat> Choumou: WHAT program, and what does it have to do with GNOME?
1620[19:15:28] <mutantturkey> somiaj: good tip
1621[19:15:43] <rnix> hi, i try to build ffmpeg from source package without gpl options. i removed gpl related compile flags one after another. when finally removing --enable-gpl, dh_install fails complaining about missing libpostproc binaries. any hint on this=
1622[19:15:47] <rnix> ?
1623[19:15:52] <mutantturkey> alphabetically there's pdns after my last entry (openvpn). this in combo with /var/ is telling me pdns is geting stuck. gool
1624[19:16:02] <Choumou> greycat : it's a script that do something everytime there is an authentification failure in gnome session
1625[19:16:17] <mutantturkey> rnix: sounds like you are missing libpostproc
1626[19:16:30] <mutantturkey> libpostproc-dev - FFmpeg library for post processing - development files
1627[19:16:33] <greycat> So it's meant to be run as PART of a gnome session? It has to interact with the user, or with the X/Wayland server? If that's the case, rc.local is the WRONG place for it.
1633[19:17:19] <greycat> or you might be able to cheat and use ~/.xsessionrc but with GNOME, all bets are off
1634[19:17:22] <greycat> GNOME is the worst
1635[19:17:35] <somiaj> Choumou: and what do you need to do if there is an authentification failure, what is causing these failures, maybe fix the actual problem vs creating some strange hack.
1636[19:17:43] <mutantturkey> rnix: weird
1637[19:17:50] <mutantturkey> rnix: maybe it's one OR the other that's required?
1638[19:17:56] <mutantturkey> rnix: i'd just check that first
1639[19:18:03] <Choumou> somiaj : it's just for logging when someone want to have access to a gnome session
1640[19:18:20] <Choumou> greycat : i can configure gnome to launch a programm at its startup ?
1641[19:18:35] <rnix> mutantturkey: i guess libpostproc gets build as dependency somehow as long as i leave --enable-gpl.
1645[19:19:36] <somiaj> gnome resepets xdg standards so you write a .desktop file and stick it in some autostart dir
1646[19:19:49] <Choumou> Cause i found on internet that we can start script at gnome session startup but in my case, i want to launch the script before gnome session startup
1647[19:19:54] <somiaj> still think this is an xy problem, for aren't authentication failures already logged
1648[19:20:33] <greycat> somiaj: I'm starting to agree with you. The language Choumou is using is dodgy as hell.
1719[20:19:34] <somiaj> f8e4: Debian main is fully open, and you are welcome to audit the code. Others do some auditing, and you can find any known security issues on security-tracker.debian.org
1720[20:20:32] <somiaj> f8e4: in addition debian is move to reproducible builds to ensure that the binaires on the mirrors are the exact same as the ones generated by the code. replaced-url
1730[20:25:47] <rwp> f8e4, Ubuntu infamously had direct channels to Amazon at times in the past. Sometimes it is private industry that is more insidious.
1731[20:26:52] <somiaj> this only applies to debian main, we cannot fully audit non-free code that gets on your system from contrib or non-free, though debian wouldn't knownly distribute malisious software through these unoffical repos
1732[20:28:41] <rwp> It would be a huge scandal if something were found. If you haven't heard of a huge scandal, then nothing has yet been found.
1734[20:29:23] <rwp> It can't be proven that something does not exist. But there are a lot of eyes looking. If someone saw something then they would say something.
1757[20:54:33] <mandeep> so seems like Zoom is taking over pulseaudio for other applications as well. is there a way i can stop zoom from accessing pulse settings?
1800[21:07:36] <somiaj> porton: most of us suggestion configuring this from the command line and don't expose your server using some web based pannel for this (it only open's up security holes and doesn't often provide any feature you like). If if don't want to follow our advise
1801[21:07:47] <somiaj> !free whcp
1802[21:07:48] <dpkg> FOSS Web Hosting Control Panels include: <DTC>, <GNUPanel>, <ISPConfig> and <ispCP> Omega. Don't use <Webmin>. replaced-url
1803[21:08:09] <somiaj> I mean any additional features
1821[21:13:30] <mandeep> that way i dont need to do sudo dpkg -i zoom.deb
1822[21:14:04] <somiaj> mandeep: you can extract the .deb, but depending on the package you have to do a bunch more stuff than that
1823[21:14:05] <jhutchins> mandeep: Doesn't really work that way.
1824[21:14:11] <greycat> mandeep: no, there is not.
1825[21:14:33] <mandeep> i see
1826[21:14:56] <somiaj> mandeep: appimages, flatpack, snap are prefered methods for having a self contained app in $HOME
1827[21:15:03] <jhutchins> mandeep: The only way to really achieve isolation is to build a complete chroot and run it in that.
1828[21:15:05] <somiaj> unsure if zoom provides any of those.
1829[21:15:17] <mandeep> ah yes forgot about flatpack and the like
1830[21:15:25] <jmcnaught> flathub has a zoom flatpak
1831[21:15:27] <mandeep> yeah i thought about a chroot too
1832[21:15:34] <jhutchins> There's probably a way to do it with docker, but docker and networking don't play well together.
1833[21:15:44] <somiaj> you still have to be root for chroots, so don't really gain much from that vs just installing the .deb on the systme.
1834[21:16:01] <mandeep> i imagine you face the same issues with flatpak though
1835[21:16:06] <somiaj> and chroots and xorg requires a bit more work to be able to run a gui app in a chroot on your current running xorg.
1836[21:16:09] <jhutchins> mandeep: You could try a different browser.
1837[21:16:43] <mandeep> jhutchins: i was having similar issues with chromium :(
1838[21:16:46] <jmcnaught> mandeep: flatpaks can be installed by non-privileged users, it's how I have Discord and Steam installed on buster.
1839[21:16:50] <jhutchins> mandeep: Yeah, sound settings aren't a matter of packaging, it's how zoom sets the audio preferences, which is internal to zoom.
1840[21:17:06] <jhutchins> It's not a question of installation.
1841[21:18:03] <NetTerminalGene> ubuntu 20.04 released. it beats buster now
1842[21:18:12] <NetTerminalGene> debian lose
1843[21:18:17] <greycat> Bye.
1844[21:18:18] <mandeep> jmcnaught: ah nice
1845[21:18:43] <mandeep> jhutchins: yeah seems like there's no way around it
1959[22:15:17] <greycat> I'm really getting tired of giving and answer, and then people don't read it, and ask the same damned question that I literally JUST ANSWERED.
1960[22:15:39] <greycat> Especially after spending multiple minutes and multiple search terms trying to FIND said answer.
1967[22:17:31] <warsoul> man systemed-journald.service
1968[22:17:31] <warsoul> No manual entry for systemed-journald.service
1969[22:17:34] <greycat> dpkg, (1) is <reply>Unix man pages are divided into sections, which normally have numeric names. ls(1) means the page "ls" in section "1". To read it, you type "man 1 ls".
1970[22:17:35] <dpkg> okay, greycat
1971[22:17:42] <greycat> warsoul: you're misspelling it.
1972[22:17:48] <greycat> FUCK
1973[22:17:50] <greycat> Just FUCK.
1974[22:17:56] <greycat> *plonk*
1975[22:18:10] <greycat> FUCK YOU TOO SYSTEMD FOR MAKING THIS SHIT SO GOD DAMNED HARD TO TYPE
1979[22:18:44] <dpkg> Unix man pages are divided into sections, which normally have numeric names. ls(1) means the page "ls" in section "1". To read it, you type "man 1 ls".
1991[22:23:46] <dpkg> methinks arch is a hardware architecture (i386, amd64, armel, mips, mipsel, sparc, powerpc, alpha, hppa, s390 && ia64). Also a source control revision system (GNU arch). Arch (and its twin brother ArX) resides at replaced-url
1992[22:24:31] <tharkun> greycat: Thanks. For some reason I believed there where not enough downloads to justify the build and fine tuning.
1993[22:24:57] <greycat> i386 is still widely used, if that's the particular 32-bit arch you meant. We're not Ubuntu.
1994[22:25:21] <tharkun> greycat: We know each other since sarge :)
1997[22:26:13] <somiaj> though unless you have really old hardware, amd64+multiarch is what many suggest, afiak debian has no plans to remove the i386 arch any time soon.
2002[22:26:58] <tharkun> somiaj: After I get this laptop its driving license I will nuke winxp and then install debian.
2003[22:27:21] <foul_owl> Debian has various types of install media "live", "netinst" etc. Each of these types has a corresponding "nonfree" also. Should each type of "nonfree" iso contain identical firmware, everything else being equal?
2008[22:28:38] <somiaj> foul_owl: only the debian-installer on the non-live systems without firmware (netinstall, cd1, dvd1) are considered offical.
2009[22:28:49] <somiaj> foul_owl: non-free firmware images and live installers are not offical.
2010[22:28:55] <foul_owl> Ahh, understood
2011[22:29:07] <foul_owl> Who builds the "nonfree" isos?
2012[22:29:18] <foul_owl> What is the project or org who does that
2013[22:29:28] <somiaj> greycat: From what i've seen in buster, the live images use the offical debian-installer and the new installer from inside the live image actually is quite relaiable, seen various people with sucess with it
2014[22:29:48] <somiaj> foul_owl: they are all built by debian, but due to DFSG, debian will never call anything with non-free software offical.
2028[22:31:02] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, somiaj
2029[22:31:19] <foul_owl> here's the diff: replaced-url
2030[22:31:22] <foul_owl> (live, netinst)
2031[22:31:23] <somiaj> foul_owl: the unoffical netinstall with firmware still doesn't have the correct firmware?
2032[22:31:28] <somiaj> !firmware images
2033[22:31:29] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
2034[22:31:38] <foul_owl> The netinst does not
2035[22:31:40] <somiaj> !calamares
2036[22:31:41] <dpkg> Starting in Debian 10 Buster, the Calamares installer is included in the debian-live boot images. The (somewhat unreliable?) normal installer is also included, as one of the choices in the first menu after boot. Once in the live system look for an Install Debian icon, or type: sudo calamares See replaced-url
2037[22:31:54] <foul_owl> I repack the netinst anyway with my preseed
2040[22:32:03] <somiaj> foul_owl: the unoffical netinstaller right? (if you say netinstall I assume offical and of course that doesn't have any firmware)
2044[22:32:21] <joepublic> the debian installer is somewhat unreliable?
2045[22:32:28] <foul_owl> I've only ever used "nonfree" since debian 6
2046[22:32:44] <foul_owl> As all systems I've installed debian on need some firmware unfortunately
2047[22:33:00] <foul_owl> So I copied the firmware over from live to netinst
2048[22:33:18] <foul_owl> But the installer still refuses to use it
2049[22:33:31] <somiaj> joepublic: the offical installre is fairly reliable in a wide varitie of situations, on both legach and ufi systems, from both usb and cdrom, but there are issues in edge cases.
2050[22:33:49] <joepublic> somiaj, yes, in contrast with the impression that the factoid above gives.
2051[22:33:53] <foul_owl> How do I convince netinst to use the entire contents of "firmware"
2052[22:34:11] <Delf> foul_owl: So this one has the firmware you want but the netinst isn't using it? replaced-url
2053[22:34:14] <somiaj> foul_owl: you have to put the firmware on a separate usb stick. Sounds like you have hardware that requires firwmare to new for the netinstall
2055[22:34:43] <foul_owl> Delf: It does not have that firmware. I had to copy the firmware over from the livecd
2056[22:34:45] <somiaj> joepublic: the debian-installer on the live images isn't as relaiable (and for some the calameres installer has better luck), but this is the debian-installer on the live images, not the offical debian install images.
2067[22:36:12] <somiaj> foul_owl: no, you have to supply it on a separte usb stick during the install
2068[22:36:22] <foul_owl> Why do any isos ship with a "firmware" directory at all then?
2069[22:36:55] <greycat> dpkg, persistent journal is <reply>In Debian releases 8-10, systemd's journal is not persistent by default. To enable the persistent journal, see systemd-journald.service(8) or «mkdir -p /var/log/journal; systemd-tmpfiles --create --prefix /var/log/journal». Persistent will be the default in Debian 11+.
2070[22:36:55] <dpkg> greycat: okay
2071[22:36:59] <somiaj> foul_owl: you just have poorly supported hardware, but the non-free netinstaller does provide firmware for many devices and requires no extra work.
2072[22:37:18] <foul_owl> Why does the livecd work but the netinst doesn't then?
2073[22:37:33] <foul_owl> Why aren't the "firmware" dirs identical?
2079[22:38:22] <greycat> It's almost like they're two different images!
2080[22:38:27] <Delf> Can someone verify that multi-seat is not working as intended on debian stable? At least update the wiki to let people know that it's partially broken replaced-url
2081[22:39:05] <foul_owl> It's almost as if making them different is causing a problem
2082[22:39:58] <greycat> You assume things that are not true, like "Debian is a single entity with a single and consistent policy".
2083[22:40:13] <greycat> the -live team is totally separate from the d-i team
2084[22:40:14] <foul_owl> Why not include a random firmware assortment for each type of desktop iso. mate will get firmware a, b, and c, and gnome gets firmware c, d, and e
2085[22:40:15] <trek00> foul_owl: it's just a matter of what is free and what's not, official debian installer images are completely free software, then there are the unofficial non-free images with firmware; the live images probably contains firmware because you could have more problems, installing firmware inside those live images every time you use it
2086[22:41:04] <foul_owl> greycat: That is an incorrect assumption on my part
2087[22:41:59] <foul_owl> I simply want a netinst with a directory containing all firmware that has ever shipped with any version of any iso built for debian 10
2090[22:42:47] <foul_owl> I don't mind repacking the iso myself
2091[22:43:06] <trek00> Delf: exactly, what it not working? may be the wiki howto is a bit outdated
2092[22:43:16] <foul_owl> But I don't want to load it from a separate usb drive as that negates the purpose of preseeding, a fully automated installation
2096[22:44:29] <greycat> He seems to be claiming that the non-free netinst is missing something, or has too-old something, but he's not saying what, because why be explicit and problem-focused when you can rant and ask for the moon?
2108[22:46:39] <trek00> foul_owl: diff of non-free images with the live one?
2109[22:46:46] <greycat> "I don't just want the one firmware package I *actually* need, so I won't tell you which one I want, because what I *ACTUALLY* *WANT* is for the entire Debian culture to be overhauled and for all the images to be unified under one central controller!!!"
2110[22:47:00] <foul_owl> trek00: yes
2111[22:47:22] <foul_owl> This isn't for just one install
2112[22:47:23] <trek00> foul_owl: which one is the live? it's not written in the diff
2113[22:47:27] <foul_owl> live, netinst
2114[22:47:46] <Delf> trek00: The wiki is not out dated. Debian old-stable is working but not current stable. Locking and unlocking doesn't work. When a user logs out from seat1 or seat2, seat0 gets locked and no gdm is respawned until someone else on another seat logs out… only seat0 is able to log out and respawn a gdm login.
2115[22:48:19] <trek00> Delf: may be something need to be configured with newer logind?
2116[22:48:29] <foul_owl> greycat: I'm not asking for anything to be overhauled, I'm happy to build the iso myself
2117[22:48:50] <greycat> The unofficial images are not supported by Debian. They are "as is". If your life would be improved by you making a new custom netinst image with more firmware, then do that.
2118[22:49:10] <greycat> !custom d-i
2119[22:49:10] <dpkg> To create customized Debian <netinst> images, see replaced-url
2129[22:50:42] <foul_owl> My question is simply: if I copy firmware over from the livecd to the netinst, why doesn't the netinst load that firmware?
2130[22:51:01] <foul_owl> I have built an iso that contains the union of both sets of firmware
2131[22:51:18] <foul_owl> But I can't convince the netinst to load it from the contents of the firmware dir
2132[22:51:42] <foul_owl> My question isn't some insane idea, it's the best solution for a fully automated install
2133[22:52:07] <trek00> foul_owl: if the contents are unpacked inside the correct /lib/firmware directory, the installer should see and use them (but not install)
2134[22:52:13] <foul_owl> Especially when every person I know is asking me for debian on their shitty laptop so they can ditch windows 10
2135[22:53:15] <foul_owl> trek00: Understood. This is my issue. I can see the firmware from the live cd in that location, but the installer is not loading it
2136[22:53:41] <foul_owl> Rather, I can confirm that the firmware from the livecd has been copied correctly to the netinst iso
2137[22:54:04] <kingsley> I wonder if Debian's package management infrastructure could benefit from the X Binary Package System (in short XBPS). Evidently its creator just resigned from the Void project. You can see this is so at
2150[22:57:31] <user217217> trek00: just stuck on 11%
2151[22:58:33] <trek00> kingsley: debian is based on dpkg and apt, may be some of those features could be incorporated inside the actual infrastructure, but it's unlikely that debian could switch to a completely different packaging system
2156[22:59:28] <user217217> trek00: I use console now
2157[22:59:35] <HelloShitty> Hello... Anyone with some hplip/sane/xsane knowledge that can hepl me to troubleshoot a problem I have with my scanner device?
2158[22:59:58] <petn-randall> HelloShitty: It's best if you ask away, anyone knowing the answer will respond.
2159[23:00:01] <trek00> user217217: which command you typed?
2160[23:00:01] <user217217> trek00: also I get timeout error when try to stop it
2161[23:00:27] <user217217> for remove: sudo apt purge redis-server
2162[23:01:04] <trek00> user217217: please paste the full output on replaced-url
2163[23:01:08] <user217217> to stop: /etc/init.d/redis-server stop
2172[23:04:56] <HelloShitty> I have connected my new router and I have been able to connect my AIO printer to the router but I can only print over wireless network
2173[23:05:04] <HelloShitty> but I can't scan over the wireless network
2174[23:05:18] <HelloShitty> when I start xsane, it says it couldn't find any scanner device
2175[23:05:48] <HelloShitty> I have hplip and hp-aio installed and when I try to run hp-check I get severall python errors
2176[23:06:38] <user217217> trek00: I'm on phone now. I can just make photo
2188[23:17:41] <foul_owl> trek00: both live and netinst have the same kernel version: 4.19.0-8-amd64
2189[23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1372
2190[23:20:19] <sney> HelloShitty: fwiw, I haven't had consistent success making my hp scanner work in debian either. I usually end up just scanning to a thumbdrive. Not sure what to suggest since hp doesn't have much in the way of non-windows support
2191[23:20:25] <Delf> trek00: It's not because of logind.conf :(. I'm miserable but it made me happy at least a little bit thinking it was it.
2192[23:20:56] <sney> I did have it working once, but I didn't write down the exact working versions of everything before an upgrade broke scanning again
2204[23:32:58] <lwp> foul_owl, if you can get a more specific complaint of some specific firmware that should be added to one of those images, then file a bug
2213[23:38:27] <trek00> foul_owl: what dmesg says?
2214[23:39:26] <lwp> foul_owl, we've all seen your lazy diff output. if you want something changed, you should create a specific request for adding some specific thing(s) to some specific version of some specific installer or live image. otherwise, you are just ranting
2215[23:39:59] <foul_owl> trek00: Correct, the firmware does not get loaded
2217[23:40:16] <sney> the live and installer teams are technically separate so it is possible for them to have some minor variance between releases. a bug report calling attention to this will probably result in the problem being fixed quickly.
2218[23:40:27] <trek00> foul_owl: please paste the full output to paste.debian.net/
2225[23:43:32] <foul_owl> trek00: I need to locate another usb drive so I can copy the output of dmesg off the installation target
2226[23:43:52] <foul_owl> sney: Thank you, you are first person to acknowledge that this is an issue
2227[23:43:59] <trek00> foul_owl: that could bring some more detailed info to debug it
2228[23:44:57] <foul_owl> I don't understand why me identifying a mistake in the iso builds qualifies me as a lunatic. If it were me, I would say "oh damn, that shouldn't be like that, I can see how that is messing up your preseed netinst"
2259[23:59:08] <sney> Delf: sddm definitely supports locking unless you mean something other than what it does automatically on my machine after I walk away for a while
2261[23:59:34] <sney> plantroon: netfilter upstream is pushing everyone from iptables to nftables. there are compatibility options to help with the transition
2262[23:59:43] <Delf> sney: Locking in multi-seat setup or single-seat?