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• 1[00:00:05] <kreyren> alike /home/something/bin /home/something/boot /home/something/dev /home/something/etc /home/something/home /home/something/lib /home/something/lib64 /home/something/media /home/something/mnt /home/something/opt /home/something/proc /home/something/root /home/something/run /home/something/sbin /home/something/srv /home/something/sys /home/something/theia /home/something/tmp /home/something/usr /home/something/var /home/something/workspac
• 2[00:00:08] <trek00> kreyren: but you need to set working directories for dpkg and apt
• 3[00:00:24] <kreyren> how?
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• 7[00:02:03] <trek00> kreyren: setting apt options like Dpkg::Options::="--root=/home/user/newroot"
• 8[00:02:22] <kreyren> i see
• 9[00:02:34] <trek00> kreyren: see man apt.conf
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• 11[00:02:43] <kreyren> checking
• 12[00:03:25] <kreyren> will it create the expected directories or do i have to make them?
• 13[00:04:14] <trek00> kreyren: you should copy your root fs on that directory before to run apt
• 14[00:04:27] <kreyren> noted
• 15[00:04:51] <kreyren> So theory: Making fsh somewhere accesible to the non-root and then using /etc/apt configuration to work with it?
• 16[00:05:11] <kreyren> /etc/apt being outside of this makeshift sandbox ?
• 17[00:05:19] <trek00> kreyren: yeah see also apt-config dump
• 18[00:05:29] <kreyren> noted
• 19[00:05:50] <trek00> kreyren: for example you should also set Dir "/home/user/something";
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• 22[00:07:05] <trek00> (apt and dpkg works in pair, but has different config options)
• 23[00:07:13] <kreyren> noted
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• 26[00:08:18] <trek00> kreyren: see also deboostrap, may be it helps to create the initial filesystem on your /home/user/something
• 27[00:08:51] <kreyren> noted checking
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• 30[00:12:16] <trek00> kreyren: but you really need to run apt for that? or you just need to build a package?
• 31[00:12:39] <kreyren> trek00, i need the end-user to have the ability to use apt for their development
• 32[00:13:04] <trek00> ok
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• 35[00:13:49] <trek00> kreyren: it seems to me fairly complicated, but i guess there are some motivations under this decision
• 36[00:14:23] <kreyren> Yep this is implemented until upstream is confident in giving root to users
• 37[00:14:46] <kreyren> assuming that i am user myself who is using gitpod for development and i want this functionality while i am rewriting their backend to support my expected distros
• 38[00:15:19] <kreyren> and also other users wants to have it so i felt like being nice :p
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• 40[00:15:50] <badsektr> why ubuntu has better fonts than debian?
• 41[00:16:12] <allizom> badsektr: what's the actual issue?
• 42[00:16:15] <kreyren> badsektr, change the fonts to whatever you like?
• 43[00:16:37] <trek00> kreyren: well it could work if your directory tree is owned by user and you set the correct config to apt and dpkg, but may be installations scripts inside packages will break
• 44[00:16:48] <badsektr> like rendering, i changed some things based on what i read on a forum post online and it improved somewhat
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• 47[00:17:36] <kreyren> trek00, that shoudn't be a concern i can make a custom downstream if neede
• 48[00:17:38] <kreyren> *needed
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• 51[00:18:50] <allizom> badsektr: you've got to be clearer than that
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• 65[00:37:08] <icebp241> im trying to make a ssh config file that will forward all ports on a speciifc network/ip address to a host. how can i go about this?
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• 70[00:39:06] <somiaj> icebp241: why not due this with a firewall (nftables)
• 71[00:39:42] <somiaj> icebp241: or are you trying to setup an ssh tunnel?
• 72[00:39:50] <icebp241> somiaj was planning on using this as a socks proxy for various webservers running on different ports
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• 94[00:57:48] <icebp241> +
• 95[00:57:53] <icebp241> any advice?
• 96[00:58:19] <kreyren> How can i specify different /etc/apt for apt ?
• 97[00:58:24] * kreyren can't find it in docs
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• 101[00:59:31] <trek00> kreyren: with -c or APT_CONFIG environment variable (see man apt-get for that)
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• 103[01:00:01] <kreyren> trek00, that seems to point to apt.conf i want to use the whole directory
• 104[01:00:28] <trek00> kreyren: it should be Dir::Etc
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• 107[01:01:49] <trek00> icebp241: may be this help? replaced-url
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• 109[01:02:48] <icebp241> trek00 sort of, thats a specfic port. i was hoping to do all
• 110[01:02:51] <somiaj> icebp241: sounds like you want an ssh tunnel, you should be able to google how to set that up. Though socks should already be secure, unsrue why you need ssh + socks
• 111[01:03:15] <icebp241> somiaj cant a ssh tunnel be used as a socks proxy?
• 112[01:03:20] <icebp241> im confused by that part
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• 114[01:04:09] <kreyren> trek00, that seems to work thanks ^-^
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• 116[01:04:50] <somiaj> icebp241: it can be, but ssh tunnel can only goto a single host, a proxy should be able to do multiple hosts
• 117[01:05:02] <trek00> kreyren: :)
• 118[01:05:10] <icebp241> somiaj single host, multiple ports
• 119[01:05:16] <somiaj> icebp241: Still unsure why ssh fits your use case best, but look up ssh tunnel, (note to use an ssh tunell people have to have an account on that system)
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• 121[01:05:37] <somiaj> icebp241: you will still need one tunnel per port I belive (I've only done this once or twice years ago)
• 122[01:05:42] <kreyren> Seems that apt-get ... install debootstrap does not know how to handle missing /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend replaced-url
• 123[01:05:44] <kreyren> any recommendation?
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• 127[01:07:08] <trek00> kreyren: debootstrap should be installed outside your rootfs copy, it will create a rootfs for you
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• 129[01:07:35] <kreyren> trek00, it should be making it in specified dir no?
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• 131[01:08:41] <trek00> kreyren: you should install debootstrap on your system, then call deboostrap to create your /home/user/copy and the you can use apt on that /home/user/copy
• 132[01:08:51] *** Quits: nksegos (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 133[01:08:55] <kreyren> i see trying
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• 140[01:12:23] <karlpinc> icebp241: Although you will need a tunnel per-port, you can do mutiple tunnels in a single ssh connection.
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• 144[01:13:28] <icebp241> karlpinc im a little confused by that. do you mean in my ssh config i could have multiple lines like this:
• 145[01:13:30] <icebp241> LocalForward 4000 localhost:4000
• 146[01:13:31] <kreyren> trek00, currently supported variants: buildd, fakechroot, minbase -- I assume i want minbase for this usecase?
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• 148[01:14:02] <icebp241> karlpinc i was just hoping i wouldnt have to specifiy a bunch
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• 150[01:14:16] <trek00> kreyren: i don't remember to have used any variant
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• 152[01:14:31] <kreyren> noted
• 153[01:14:52] <kreyren> trek00, `debootstrap --arch=amd64 --cache-dir="$HOME/.cache/apt" targetdir` like this?
• 154[01:15:04] <trek00> yes
• 155[01:15:47] <karlpinc> icebp241: Yes. Multiple LocalForwards.
• 156[01:16:06] <trek00> kreyren: debootstrap --arch amd64 buster targetdir replaced-url
• 157[01:16:07] <karlpinc> icebp241: It's either that or a full vpn, like openvpn/whatever.
• 158[01:16:35] <karlpinc> icebp241: Depends on what you're doing. ssh tunnels are easy.
• 159[01:17:10] <kreyren> trek00, noted
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• 161[01:17:59] <icebp241> karlpinc alright, i can live with multiple LocalForward lines. do you happen to know what a firefox proxy script would look like?
• 162[01:18:28] <icebp241> karlpinc my ssh config would start the tunnel and do several LocalForwards, I want firefox to use that host as a socks proxy for a ip range
• 163[01:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1394
• 164[01:19:21] <kreyren> trek00, seems to fail replaced-url
• 165[01:19:26] <kreyren> E: Cannot install into target '/home/gitpod/makeshift' mounted with noexec or nodev
• 166[01:19:51] <trek00> kreyren: yeah it can't work
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• 168[01:20:05] <kreyren> > Mounting required?
• 169[01:20:14] * kreyren doesn't have mount..
• 170[01:20:18] <somiaj> icebp241: Why are you wanting ssh for this? Would using nginx as an ssl proxy work?
• 171[01:20:18] <trek00> kreyren: you need to remove noexec at least
• 172[01:20:30] <karlpinc> icebp241: No. I decided long ago that SOCKS was clunky. And now I've forgotten all the details so I don't know how to substitute for SOCKS. But there's a possiblity that a, say, nginx proxy might be useful to you.
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• 174[01:20:38] <trek00> kreyren: or put it on another mount
• 175[01:20:54] <kreyren> trek00, this is docker environment so i dont have any other disks available
• 176[01:20:58] <karlpinc> somiaj: :)
• 177[01:21:02] <icebp241> somiaj host is already on network and configured. really dont want to stand up a new service or anything
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• 179[01:21:18] <icebp241> karlpinc gotcha. i had a file years ago that did exactly this but cant remember enough to search for it
• 180[01:21:20] <icebp241> thanks
• 181[01:21:39] <nlpqda> OMG fonts on debian browsers are ******** ugly, I did all google tricks trying to change them but nothing is works. are there any known not opensource from MS or anything that could be installed and improve the situation on my debian box? getting blind here!
• 182[01:21:48] <trek00> kreyren: create a directory on the rootfs owned by your user, may be it runs, but those "security protections" are not made for a system like that
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• 185[01:22:24] <trek00> kreyren: it's like solving an academic test just for fun without any real advantage
• 186[01:22:41] <karlpinc> nlpqda: The ("libre...", IIRC?) fonts are bit-for-bit compatible with the MS fonts. And they are usually installed. (I think?) So that's probably not your problem.
• 187[01:22:43] <kreyren> trek00, assuming it fits abstract i find it worth it
• 188[01:22:51] <sney> nlpqda: 'apt list fonts-*' to see what's available, but you might be having a text rendering issue if it's as bad as you say
• 189[01:23:12] <trek00> nlpqda: may be you need to enable font aliasing and sub-pixel rendering in your desktop settings
• 190[01:23:46] <trek00> kreyren: you need apt only to install your single package?
• 191[01:23:56] <kreyren> trek00, X amount of packages
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• 193[01:24:17] <trek00> kreyren: you need to build your own way, apt was not made for it
• 194[01:24:45] <trek00> kreyren: you are trying to put a circle inside a triangle
• 195[01:25:02] <kreyren> i have my solutions already: replaced-url
• 196[01:25:07] <kreyren> since that's also an option for end-users
• 197[01:25:33] <trek00> kreyren: sorry i really can't help
• 198[01:25:44] <nlpqda> sney: apt anything* gives me goosebumps , trek00 I believe I've done that already but will double check it.
• 199[01:25:51] <kreyren> thanks for info
• 200[01:25:55] <nlpqda> karlpinc: main problem is the browsers
• 201[01:26:22] <nlpqda> I'm not complaining much about gui or terminal fonts
• 202[01:26:47] <sney> most likely not a font problem then
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• 204[01:27:04] <trek00> i agree
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• 208[01:28:23] <kreyren> How can i disable these fail saves? replaced-url
• 209[01:28:26] <kreyren> *fail safes
• 210[01:29:20] <kreyren> maybe using fakeroot?
• 211[01:29:38] <nlpqda> sney: I wish I can show you but I'm sure Arabic language font won't make any sense to you. it looks so so ugly on the web specially for someone very particural about it like myself
• 212[01:30:29] <nlpqda> in the past it was possible to fix it from firefox preferences > general > language
• 213[01:30:48] <nlpqda> I've done it twice but it's not functional anymore
• 214[01:32:15] <nlpqda> I think left with the unthinkable now 'apt list fonts-*'
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• 216[01:32:33] <sney> all that command will do is give you a list of font packages that you could install
• 217[01:32:34] <kreyren> solved it by parsing --make-tarball=file apparently
• 218[01:32:39] <karlpinc> !arabic
• 219[01:32:39] <dpkg> مرحبا! للحصول على الدعم باللغة العربية لتوزيعة دبيان جنو\لينيكس , الرجاء التوجه الى قناة ##debian-ar
• 220[01:32:53] <karlpinc> nlpqda: Maybe try there ^?
• 221[01:33:14] <sney> though I guess if it's an arabic text display issue, it could be fixed by a font.
• 222[01:33:19] <sney> there are also pango issues sometimes
• 223[01:34:53] <nlpqda> karlpinc: linux terminal(S) don't show RTF alphabets correctly so I'm not sure what that is :D
• 224[01:35:11] <nlpqda> sney: what is "pango"
• 225[01:35:31] <sney> it is a text rendering library.
• 226[01:35:39] <nlpqda> oh debian-ar
• 227[01:35:45] <nlpqda> ok I've just noticed
• 228[01:36:07] <karlpinc> nlpqda: Don't forget the double #.
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• 231[01:37:21] <nlpqda> karlpinc: same difference ... just a sleeping channel there
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• 233[01:38:00] <sney> could you post a screenshot somewhere? even if we can't read it, the artifacts should be visible, right?
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• 236[01:39:04] <kreyren> more info to why is this failing? replaced-url
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• 240[01:40:04] <nlpqda> off you go Sney replaced-url
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• 243[01:43:16] <sney> would you say the text is too blurry?
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• 246[01:48:26] <nlpqda> sney: a 5 year old child would have a better handwriting than the font which you're seeing .. it's literally a punch in the eye.
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• 249[01:49:45] <sney> that doesn't give me any more information
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• 254[01:59:01] <nlpqda> I think this package will solve the issue ttf-mscorefonts-installer
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• 256[01:59:37] <nlpqda> sney: are you asking some more information? I didn't get that
• 257[02:00:15] <sney> try the font and see what happens
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• 280[02:11:45] <nlpqda> yep it works :)
• 281[02:11:52] <nlpqda> phereplaced-url
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• 290[02:16:00] <nlpqda> sney: does the new look make any sense at your end? replaced-url
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• 292[02:17:40] <sney> the strokes are thinner now and the dots are more pronounced. I don't know the technical terms but it does look better.
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• 297[02:24:28] <nlpqda> Perfect .. thanks
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• 314[02:41:28] <Sayona> Hi, I am try to chroot jail with jk_chrootsh, but I get: /usr/sbin/jk_chrootsh: Permission denied
• 315[02:41:37] <Sayona> after I log in with user
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• 329[02:58:31] <somiaj> You need root permissions to chroot
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• 331[02:59:24] <Sayona> somiaj, but I am root.
• 332[03:00:22] <somiaj> what is the output of ls -l /usr/sbin/jk_chrootsh
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• 334[03:00:38] <Sayona> somiaj, from root ?
• 335[03:00:41] <somiaj> also what do you mean, after you login as user, which is why I thought you were a normal user. I'm looking at jailkit, unsure what sort of extra layers it adds
• 336[03:00:46] <Sayona> -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 31280 Apr 17 03:33 /usr/sbin/jk_chrootsh
• 337[03:01:08] <Sayona> I enter the username to log in and I get that error (permission denied)
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• 340[03:03:27] <somiaj> google seems to suggest it might be a permission issue inside the chroot, I don't know jailkit well enough to think of what could be the issue there
• 341[03:04:05] <Sayona> thank you
• 342[03:04:28] <somiaj> is that the only output you get, or are you getting a lot of output and that is the last line, maybe paste all the output at paste.debian.net
• 343[03:04:48] <Sayona> yes
• 344[03:04:55] <wr> hi, when i do updates on my Debian XFCE my panel always disappears and i get this error replaced-url
• 345[03:05:19] <Sayona> replaced-url
• 346[03:05:26] <Sayona> somiaj, this is it
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• 349[03:06:57] <somiaj> Sayona: might ahve to find someone who is familar with jailkit
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• 353[03:08:23] <Sayona> :(
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• 385[03:28:05] <n-iCe> hi
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• 388[03:30:01] * annadane melts n-iCe
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• 391[03:31:53] <n-iCe> ea ea
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• 423[04:08:31] <teksimian> does anyone know whether it is possible change the character ( . dots) that tmux displays when a viewport resolution is constrained?
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• 429[04:15:07] <annadane> when installing a 3rd party .deb do i apt install /path/to/deb.deb or dpkg -i it?
• 430[04:16:45] <trek00> annadane: dpkg -i
• 431[04:17:21] <annadane> i thought apt instal satisfied the deps
• 432[04:17:24] <annadane> install*
• 433[04:17:29] <annadane> and dpkg didn't
• 434[04:17:47] <trek00> annadane: as far i know apt download packages and dpkg install them
• 435[04:18:11] <trek00> annadane: if you add a repository, then you could apt install packagename
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• 437[04:18:39] <trek00> or dpkg -i /path/to/packagename-version.deb
• 438[04:18:50] <themill> annadane: apt install ./foo.deb is much better
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• 440[04:19:05] <annadane> yeah, that's why i wondered
• 441[04:19:14] <trek00> well if it works it's better for sure
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• 443[04:19:49] <themill> if you "dpkg -i foo.deb; apt-get -f install" then you are first breaking things and then hoping that apt can sort it out later, which is a bit crap
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• 447[04:22:32] <hgl> i purchased a vps with debian installed. how do i make sure the apt keys are from debian and not being tempered with?
• 448[04:22:37] <trek00> annadane: it works?
• 449[04:22:48] <annadane> yeah apt install ./foo.deb works
• 450[04:22:54] <trek00> good!
• 451[04:23:16] <trek00> hgl: you can download those keys and compare with yours
• 452[04:24:57] <hgl> trek00, where do i download them? is there a man page or something to explain these?
• 453[04:25:33] <trek00> hgl: apt-key list
• 454[04:26:20] <hgl> thanks, this seems to list the keys i have, what should i compare them with?
• 455[04:26:36] <trek00> hgl: with the ones on the vps
• 456[04:27:29] <hgl> oh, my own machine isn't a linux. does debian have a page that lists the official keys?
• 457[04:27:55] <hgl> nvm, this seems to be the one replaced-url
• 458[04:28:00] <hgl> trek00, thanks a lot
• 459[04:28:10] <trek00> :)
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• 504[05:40:39] <Hatter_> I recently upgraded 2 debian 9 boxes to debian 10. I just noticed on both of them they stayed on kernel 4.9.0-12-amd64 why would this happen ?
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• 507[05:46:54] <trek00> Hatter_: try to install linux-image-amd64 (if you are on amd64)
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• 523[06:15:06] <Hatter_> trek00, thx I will try
• 524[06:15:50] <Hatter_> what situation stops the root user from being able write into a directory which appears to have correct permissions ?
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• 530[06:21:35] <Hatter_> Oh I see, Immutable bit is enabled
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• 551[06:54:39] <obiwahn> how do i find out when a deb has been created?
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• 553[06:55:25] <nvz> you mean you have a given deb and want to know when it was made, or you want to be aware when a new one comes out?
• 554[06:56:08] <obiwahn> when it has been made
• 555[06:56:15] <obiwahn> i think it is in the control file
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• 557[06:56:26] <obiwahn> but do i really have to download it?
• 558[06:56:46] <obiwahn> apt-cache show enlightenment
• 559[06:57:01] <obiwahn> just wondering if that is years old or not
• 560[06:57:02] <nvz> you /could/ depending on your purposes just look at the timestamp of the upload to the mirror
• 561[06:57:15] <nvz> ,i enlightenment
• 562[06:57:17] <judd> Package enlightenment (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: X11 window manager based on EFL. Version: 0.22.4-2; Size: 2225.4k; Installed: 7983k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 563[06:58:20] <obiwahn> i think a date shold be added to apt-cache show
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• 565[06:59:03] <nvz> well first step of that is knowing what you're suggesting
• 566[06:59:18] <nvz> which is adding date info to Packages.gz or Packages.xz on the mirrors
• 567[07:00:38] <obiwahn> well i do not need the exact date from the build machines
• 568[07:00:58] <obiwahn> it woul be nice but ctime would probably suffice
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• 570[07:01:49] <nvz> enlightenment_0.23.1-5_arm64.deb 2020-02-29 23:432.6M+
• 571[07:01:56] <nvz> ah wai.. wrong one
• 572[07:02:07] <obiwahn> it is a bit annoying to have no orientation
• 573[07:02:11] <obiwahn> sid?
• 574[07:02:16] <nvz> enlightenment_0.22.4-2_amd64.deb 2019-01-16 07:262.2M
• 575[07:02:18] <obiwahn> sid is good:)
• 576[07:02:40] <nvz> replaced-url
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• 578[07:03:50] <nvz> replaced-url
• 579[07:04:00] <nvz> replaced-url
• 580[07:04:18] <nvz> just a few places you can get that information.. the mirror, the changelog, and the tracker
• 581[07:04:45] <obiwahn> aha
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• 583[07:04:53] <obiwahn> Cool thank you!
• 584[07:05:08] <nvz> all three are linked from packages.debian.org
• 585[07:05:14] <obiwahn> The tracker is new to me:)
• 586[07:05:17] <nvz> replaced-url
• 587[07:05:41] <nvz> on the right where it says Debian Resoures the "Developer Information" link is to the tracker
• 588[07:06:58] <obiwahn> Ah super awesome!
• 589[07:07:14] <nvz> yeah PDO contains all the links you need for a given package..
• 590[07:07:30] <nvz> to the security, tracker, changelogs, packages, source, etc.
• 591[07:08:05] <nvz> might also want to look into UDD or Package Search
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• 593[07:10:05] <nvz> ah nm I dont think either of those has date info
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• 632[07:10:42] <nvz> if you use a GUI though package search has a more featured search.. easily search using debtags and such
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• 634[07:11:00] <nvz> ,i packagesearch
• 635[07:11:01] <judd> Package packagesearch (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: GUI for searching packages and viewing package information. Version: 2.7.10+b1; Size: 326.9k; Installed: 1443k; Screenshot: replaced-url
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• 681[07:15:10] <obiwahn> :+1:
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• 687[07:16:48] <nvz> !obiwahn--
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• 690[07:17:08] <nvz> dpkg, karma nvz?
• 691[07:17:09] <dpkg> nvz? has neutral karma
• 692[07:17:12] <nvz> dpkg, karma nvz
• 693[07:17:12] <dpkg> nvz has karma of 15
• 694[07:17:32] <nvz> iirc you can just do the dpkg trigger ! then a nick with ++
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• 697[07:17:46] <nvz> dpkg, karma obiwahn
• 698[07:17:47] <dpkg> obiwahn has neutral karma
• 699[07:17:55] <nvz> !obiwahn++
• 700[07:17:58] <nvz> dpkg, karma obiwahn
• 701[07:17:58] <dpkg> obiwahn has karma of 1
• 702[07:18:02] <nvz> !obiwahn--
• 703[07:18:04] <nvz> dpkg, karma obiwahn
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• 705[07:18:41] <nvz> it ignored me due to the frequency of requests but both ++ and -- work
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• 758[08:23:32] <mbnt> Hello?
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• 760[08:24:04] <nvz> you need something?
• 761[08:24:24] <mbnt> Yeah, I am having a difficult time installdebian.
• 762[08:24:47] <nvz> well, perhaps you should give some background and what your issues are
• 763[08:25:04] <nvz> what kind of machine are you installing on? what have you done so far?
• 764[08:25:06] <mbnt> I tried, but this problem may be too big...
• 765[08:25:33] <mbnt> Essentially I get a scrambled screen when I use the install disc
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• 769[08:25:48] <nvz> well I been here using and supporting debian for almost 20 years.. I seen a lot of issues :P
• 770[08:25:49] <mbnt> First, i tried some graphics parameters
• 771[08:25:56] <mbnt> That did not help
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• 774[08:26:14] <nvz> you skipped the highly relevant question in there
• 775[08:26:19] <mbnt> Then a helpful debianite put me to a link to download an amd friendly install disc
• 776[08:26:22] <mbnt> Same result
• 777[08:26:28] <nvz> your issues are hardware specific which is why I asked what the hardware is
• 778[08:26:36] <nvz> sounds like mac or nvidia
• 779[08:26:41] <nvz> based on my experience
• 780[08:26:57] <mbnt> nvz, Hold on a sec
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• 784[08:28:02] <nvz> also when it comes to the screen being messed up it would help to know exactly what you downloaded, how you prepared the install media, and at which point this occurs.. is it at the grub boot menu, immediately after, or what
• 785[08:28:23] <nvz> does the hardwares efi/bios screen look fine, do other OSes run properly on it?
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• 789[08:30:18] <mbnt> nvz, AMD A10-5750M APU HD graphics
• 790[08:31:14] <mbnt> nvz, So when I boot off the disc, the initial screen is fine, but when I enter install, the images are scrambled beyond reading
• 791[08:31:38] <mbnt> nvz, I have installed Debian many times and have not had this many issues since the early 2000's.
• 792[08:31:55] <mbnt> nvz, Other distos, like Ubuntu, install just fine
• 793[08:31:56] <nvz> ew, my sympathies
• 794[08:32:30] <nvz> I know this is lil less than constructive but my sincere personal advice is to try pawn that AMD APU off on someone and get a real piece of machinery
• 795[08:32:37] <nvz> they perform like total crap
• 796[08:32:42] <mbnt> nvz, Except, with Ubuntu, the graphics driver may not be as good as what debian offers
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• 798[08:33:00] <mbnt> nvz, This is a lappy
• 799[08:33:05] <nvz> mbnt: have you tried the non-graphical installer?
• 800[08:33:18] <nvz> its the same thing.. uses curses interface
• 801[08:33:36] <mbnt> nvz, You mean the options when I boot, graphical and non-graphical install?
• 802[08:33:38] <nvz> only real use difference is its no mouse support.. you just use enter and the arrows
• 803[08:33:55] <nvz> mbnt: yes, stands to reason the non-graphical install would not be loading X drivers
• 804[08:34:02] <nvz> and if that works, we know its an xorg related issue
• 805[08:34:07] <mbnt> both give me scrambled screen
• 806[08:34:13] <nvz> and not merely a kernel framebuffer
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• 809[08:34:23] <nvz> well if both do it than its the kernel side of things
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• 811[08:35:00] <mbnt> nvz, See, I get install and graphical install...
• 812[08:35:29] <nvz> I have no personal experience with the AMD APU's graphics cause I'd get rid of a machine with an AMD APU before I'd even try using it just cause they perform like shit
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• 815[08:35:59] <nvz> however I can look into it and try some boilerplate stuff like trying alternate drivers with/without kms and such
• 816[08:36:12] <nvz> really more detail would help
• 817[08:36:19] <mbnt> nvz, It sorta depends, I have a desktop with a discreet graphics card, AMD, and debian installed just fine on that
• 818[08:36:37] <nvz> I can only google with model numbers I can't lookup actual support info with generic information
• 819[08:36:50] <nvz> its the actual hardware IDs the kernel uses
• 820[08:37:08] <nvz> and several models could have same ID and vice versa
• 821[08:37:09] <mbnt> nvz, And ubuntu is okay, but do not like the screen tearing up when I watch a movie. The lappy dual boots so on windows, no tearing and on Ubuntu, tearing
• 822[08:37:31] <mbnt> nvz, And I got this feeling, if i can install debian, there will not be tearing when I watch my movies
• 823[08:37:47] <nvz> mbnt: the root of these issues is the hardware is crap which is why while I recognize thats not a good support response, its the best advice I can give
• 824[08:38:21] <nvz> I use older hardware and swap it before its obsolete.. its fairly easy in most places to offload one piece of equipment and get another
• 825[08:38:22] <mbnt> nvz, Sure, it's a ten year old hp pro book
• 826[08:38:42] <mbnt> nvz, Let us say I have a limited budget,
• 827[08:39:07] <nvz> hardware, especially machines like laptops where they are trying to push boundaries on portablility, power use..etc.. and be competitive they cut a lot of corners and most the stuff out there is horribly buggy IN HARDWARE
• 828[08:39:16] <nvz> and software developers mask this shit
• 829[08:39:22] <nvz> but it doesnt FIX it
• 830[08:39:27] <mbnt> nvz, yeah, I wuld agree
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• 832[08:39:36] <nvz> I can't make your mule a prize show horse :P
• 833[08:39:38] <mbnt> nvz, Manufacturers use cheap parts
• 834[08:39:55] <nvz> I can however offer advice on better hardware and how to get it
• 835[08:40:02] <mbnt> nvz, But know what, I have installed Linux on worse
• 836[08:40:09] <nvz> I am on a Lenovo T440 right now I traded a IBM t42p for
• 837[08:40:15] <mbnt> And got A LOT out of it.
• 838[08:40:19] <nvz> didnt pay a cent for it
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• 840[08:40:36] <mbnt> nvz, Yeah, I do not like what Lenovo is doing with batteries on newer models
• 841[08:40:50] <nvz> went from Intel Pentium M 1.8 Single core 1GB ram to Core i5 4th gen with 8GB ram
• 842[08:40:55] <mbnt> nvz, Making laptops so you cannot swap out batteries
• 843[08:41:05] <mbnt> And I boycot intel
• 844[08:41:07] <nvz> mbnt: the battery life on my T440 and X240 are amazing
• 845[08:41:24] <mbnt> nvz, I like to remove the battery when I plug in
• 846[08:41:28] <nvz> mbnt: and they have two batteries.. one is internal.. but its still removable
• 847[08:41:53] <mbnt> Why power cycle when battery is full
• 848[08:42:14] <nvz> if you have good working charge circuits that shouldnt be an issue
• 849[08:42:23] <mbnt> This HP
• 850[08:42:36] <mbnt> This is HP we are talking about
• 851[08:42:40] <nvz> I used to fret about that stuff.. I have not once ever fretted over power since I got this machine :P
• 852[08:42:45] <mbnt> good working charge circuits
• 853[08:42:50] <mbnt> nuh-uh
• 854[08:43:11] <nvz> we can try get this machine working.. but its not going to perform /well/ regardless
• 855[08:43:21] <mbnt> The laptop is great for stuff I do, I am pleased with it, I have modest needs from a laptop
• 856[08:43:29] <nvz> you can have your reasons and boycott whatever you want but an AMD APU is a piece of junk
• 857[08:43:34] <mbnt> Except when it comes to installing Debian
• 858[08:43:40] <nvz> at least get a real CPU..
• 859[08:43:45] <nvz> AMD makes those too :P
• 860[08:43:55] <mbnt> nvz, There may be other cpu contenders one day
• 861[08:43:59] <nvz> an APU is not a CPU by any measure
• 862[08:44:02] <mbnt> Be nice to have competition
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• 865[08:45:04] <nvz> mbnt: yeah well I felt much the same way recently when I got newer hardware.. but my and your modest needs are affected by forces beyond our control
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• 867[08:45:27] <nvz> if you wanna use the modern web and view modern content like HD video and high compression codecs and stuff..
• 868[08:45:27] <mbnt> yeah...so no way to do a slackware style debian install
• 869[08:45:33] <mbnt> or gentoo style
• 870[08:45:33] <nvz> you need a bare minimum of hardware these days
• 871[08:45:38] <kreyren> What would be the fastest and more reliable mirror assuming it being hardcoded for a system that travels all around the solar system
• 872[08:45:44] <mbnt> fug, installing gentoo was painful back in the day
• 873[08:45:49] <mbnt> probably still is
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• 875[08:45:55] <nvz> a real CPU with at least two threads, 4GB ram is minimum to be comfortable with modest use these days
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• 878[08:46:22] <kreyren> mbnt, `brl fetch gentoo` so difficult :p
• 879[08:46:28] <nvz> my approach is to try stay far enough behind the curve to have issues ironed out and not pay a lot.. yet stay current enough to be comfortable
• 880[08:46:45] <nvz> there is a certain art to getting rid of old hardware and getting new without paying a lot or anything
• 881[08:46:55] <nvz> I generally try to upgrade without paying :P
• 882[08:46:59] <mbnt> nvz, Yep, even the terminal screen is scrambled when I do alt f2
• 883[08:47:15] <nvz> mbnt: thats different.. if xorg has loaded that can change things
• 884[08:47:28] <nvz> if it still does it on text mode without ever starting xorg, its def the kernel
• 885[08:47:46] <nvz> more specifically whatever driver, mode, and options the kernel is selecting
• 886[08:47:55] <nvz> KMS doesnt work for everone
• 887[08:48:02] <mbnt> nvz, Why does ubuntu work then?
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• 889[08:48:17] <nvz> cause they do things differently.. have you tried a debian live?
• 890[08:48:39] <mbnt> nvz, Just the minimal install discs
• 891[08:49:08] <nvz> I have a Core i5 4300U and Intel HD 4400 graphics.. I have various drivers in both kernel and xorg I can use and various options
• 892[08:49:14] *** Quits: Ark74 (~Ark74@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 893[08:49:14] <nvz> with varying effects and performance
• 894[08:49:23] <mbnt> I think it is 'amd-firmware-graphics' I need to get in there first
• 895[08:49:31] <nvz> you may need that, you may not
• 896[08:49:34] *** Quits: phunyguy (~blaahchm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 897[08:49:35] <mbnt> proprietary crap
• 898[08:49:45] <mbnt> I want to Stallmanize my life
• 899[08:49:53] <kreyren> mbnt, there is also amdgpu which is FOSS afaik
• 900[08:50:01] <nvz> I have a HP T520 Thin Client here it works without the firmware with the Radeon R2E but if you want dual heads or audio over DP/HDMI you need the firmware
• 901[08:50:12] <kreyren> mbnt, if you want to Stallmanize your life then use trisquell :p
• 902[08:50:17] <mbnt> kreyren, This is pre amdgpu
• 903[08:50:25] <kreyren> assuming that you want apt-based system
• 904[08:50:31] <towo^work> kreyren, firmware-amd-graphics is allways needed für amd cards
• 905[08:50:34] <nvz> yeah.. I was thinking the same thing if you're trying to go RMS you may not find what you're looking for in Debian
• 906[08:50:40] <nvz> stallman is a bit extreme at times
• 907[08:50:40] <mbnt> kreyren, This is the good 'ol radeon days
• 908[08:50:41] <kreyren> where trisquell is being apt-based distro maintained by GNU and FSF
• 909[08:50:47] <mbnt> err not so good
• 910[08:51:08] <mbnt> I love Trisquel, I canot get dual monitors with my AMD stuff
• 911[08:51:23] <mbnt> Which is a shame because I really love Trisquel
• 912[08:51:25] <nvz> due to lack of firmware probably
• 913[08:51:32] <nvz> and firmware is usually a single file
• 914[08:51:35] <mbnt> nvz, Yes, not free as in freedom
• 915[08:51:36] <nvz> you can drop into any system
• 916[08:51:37] <kreyren> towo^work, On debian i assume? My paludis box seems to be satisfied with amdgpu
• 917[08:51:45] <mbnt> Heck Stallman went to jail because of AMD
• 918[08:51:46] <nvz> mbnt: and again this is your hardware choice, not your software
• 919[08:52:06] <kreyren> mbnt, go with bedrock then? Sandbox the proprietary outside of live system :p
• 920[08:52:06] <towo^work> kreyren, amdgpu depends on the non-free firmware, no matter, what distro
• 921[08:52:39] <nvz> mbnt: you need to think real hard about what your issues really are and where you are gonna compromise.. cause you probably if you are so firm on these ideals you have, need something like a Librem machine (expensive) and a more libre focused distro
• 922[08:53:05] <mbnt> nvz, Yeah, I would like to buy foss hardware one day
• 923[08:53:15] <mbnt> nvz, When I get the moneyz
• 924[08:53:27] <nvz> yeah well I think we all have these concerns.. but we have to weigh them
• 925[08:53:39] <kreyren> towo^work, does not seem to be case on exherbo.. or downstream forgot to place proprietary notice
• 926[08:53:55] <nvz> I am not 100% comfortable with all the crap in my various machines and software.. but for what I need to do and what it cost me in time and money.. I'm plenty happy
• 927[08:54:09] <towo^work> kreyren, i don't get, what you speak about
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• 930[08:54:20] <mbnt> I dunno if you guys can answer this, but can amd-firmware-graphics be installed on ubuntu, because it is sorta debian
• 931[08:54:28] <nvz> I got a Lenovo X240, T440, and HP T520 thin client and I do all I need, comfortably and probably got around $100 in all my stuff
• 932[08:54:38] * kreyren is checking
• 933[08:54:42] <towo^work> mbnt, ubuntu have own firmware packages
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• 935[08:55:17] <nvz> mbnt: firmware on linux is binary files in /lib/firmware usually hardware needs only one specific file
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• 938[08:55:20] <mbnt> towo^work, I get screen tearing when i watch movies and have a feeling that it does not need to be this way. I feel perhaps Debian has the better drivers
• 939[08:55:42] <towo^work> mbnt, why should debian have better dribvers?
• 940[08:55:47] <towo^work> *drivers
• 941[08:55:56] <nvz> mbnt: therefor you dont /need/ any package or support of any distro you just need the right file in the right place so when the kernel loads the driver it loads the firmware onto the hardware
• 942[08:55:57] <kreyren> towo^work, exherbo does not seem to depend on proprietary for amdgpu, see replaced-url
• 943[08:56:06] <kreyren> or i am blind and living in lies
• 944[08:56:08] <towo^work> debian (stable) have propably older ones
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• 946[08:56:12] <mbnt> towo^work, Because, Ubuntu does not give the option to install amd drivers, I just get defaul stuff
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• 949[08:56:30] <mbnt> towo^work, Whereas Debian can give me drivers
• 950[08:56:38] <mbnt> besides just default
• 951[08:57:01] <nvz> thats just a lack of understanding of how linux works
• 952[08:57:04] <towo^work> kreyren, i don't know, what exherbo is, but again, all amd cards needs the firmware installed for propper working
• 953[08:57:09] <mbnt> Because on Windows (when I dual boot) no tearing...but I hate windows
• 954[08:57:11] <nvz> distros are not really about OOBE
• 955[08:57:21] *** Joins: Purphoros (~purphoros@replaced-ip)
• 956[08:57:22] <nvz> Out Of Box Experience
• 957[08:57:28] <kreyren> towo^work, replaced-url
• 958[08:57:41] <towo^work> mbnt, why should ubuntu give you drivers, they come preinstalled by default
• 959[08:57:45] <nvz> they are about differences in priotities.. you can do anything on any of them you can do on another
• 960[08:57:58] <nvz> I am a debian user cause I agree with Debian's priorities
• 961[08:57:59] <mbnt> towo^work, Then Ubuntu drivers suck gassy monkey bum
• 962[08:58:05] <nvz> !social contract
• 963[08:58:05] <dpkg> The Debian Social Contract is the document that defines Debian's purpose, see replaced-url
• 964[08:58:08] <nvz> !why debian
• 965[08:58:08] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
• 966[08:58:32] <kreyren> towo^work, afaik it's using the kernel driver only replaced-url
• 967[08:59:03] <towo^work> kreyren, xf86-video-amdgpu is not a kernel driver, it's the DDX
• 968[08:59:16] <towo^work> kreyren, the kernel driver is amdgpu and needs firmware
• 969[08:59:23] <nvz> I could do the same crap I do on here on any linux distro out there cause I understand linux and how it works.. I use debian cause I want this community, these priorities..
• 970[08:59:31] <towo^work> kreyren, grep your logfiles for the load of that firmware
• 971[08:59:37] <mbnt> Free as in Freedom!
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• 973[08:59:51] <nvz> if I wanted the corporate backing, the ubuntuONE and such.. I'd be using ubuntu
• 974[08:59:58] *** Joins: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip)
• 975[09:00:08] <nvz> but due to their time based releases that break and crap.. I dont like it
• 976[09:00:26] <kreyren> towo^work, i didn't see anything relevant to proprietary firmware in logs for xorg-server dependencies and if it's using proprietary it has to mension it through license or bug O.o
• 977[09:02:03] <mbnt> Ahh well, thanks for helping tho, it is some kaka I have to eat.
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• 984[09:03:52] <badsektor> can you have a status bar sort of thing in gnome?
• 985[09:04:07] <badsektor> sorry, i mean a task bar
• 986[09:04:42] <kreyren> towo^work, i don't see any proprietary firmware in the package logic either replaced-url
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• 988[09:06:38] <kreyren> excluding adobe fonts that are optional
• 989[09:08:14] <badsektor> what are the best fonts to get?
• 990[09:08:22] <badsektor> does debian use the best fonts when they are available?
• 991[09:08:24] <kreyren> badsektor, the one that you make yourself :p
• 992[09:08:48] <badsektor> what is the second bets? :)
• 993[09:08:59] <badsektor> *best
• 994[09:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1382
• 995[09:09:12] <kreyren> depends on the person i guess
• 996[09:09:27] <kreyren> i am using Monospace mostly
• 997[09:09:52] <kreyren> but i would like something with more-sphery
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• 999[09:10:07] <badsektor> i just switched to debian from ubuntu, the first thing you notice that's different is the low quality font rendering
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• 1001[09:10:59] <towo^work> kreyren, again, the kernelmodule 'amdgpu' loads the needed firmware!
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• 1003[09:11:13] <kreyren> mb then
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• 1011[09:18:08] <mbnt> badsektor, Yeah, us AMD guys have it rough in Linux land when it comes to older hardware
• 1012[09:18:31] <mbnt> mbnt, The amdgpupro stuff is much nicer tho
• 1013[09:18:42] <mbnt> badsektor, I mean
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• 1015[09:19:49] <nvz> you can't be using an AMD APU and call yourself an AMD guy..
• 1016[09:19:50] <nvz> heh
• 1017[09:19:58] <nvz> an APU is a joke, not a CPU
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• 1019[09:20:05] <mbnt> yeah, it is cheapo stuff, by amd's own admission
• 1020[09:20:17] <mbnt> even though tyhey cal it a 'probook'
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• 1022[09:20:23] <mbnt> more like 'po book
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• 1026[09:21:11] <rain1> is there any dnla server in debian repos?
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• 1030[09:21:50] <SwedeMike> rain1: run "apt-cache search dlna" to find the applications that match that search. I use "minidlna" myself
• 1031[09:22:25] <rain1> thank you very much SwedeMike
• 1032[09:22:34] <binaryhermit> to be fair, a lot of users would be OK with even 10+ year old integrated intel graphics
• 1033[09:23:08] <binaryhermit> obviously not gamers or people heavily using GPU accelerated stuff
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• 1048[09:35:21] <badsektor> bro, how do you switch windows without a task bar?
• 1049[09:35:58] <UncleKiwi> alt-tab
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• 1077[09:55:51] <simplicius> hello
• 1078[09:55:54] <simplicius> Found unsuitable Qt version "" from NOTFOUND, this code requires Qt 4.x
• 1079[09:56:05] <simplicius> what's the name of package exaclty?
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• 1091[10:09:34] <oxek> does a new app (not just a new version of an app) ever get into debian 'stable' repositories or is that always reserved into testing->stable on new debian release?
• 1092[10:09:51] <Unit193> It can via -backports.
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• 1094[10:12:59] <oxek> ah I didn't think of that
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• 1096[10:13:38] <oxek> regarding backports, why don't all packages from testing simply appear in -backports after a week or so?
• 1097[10:14:14] <towo^work> simplicius, you should tell us, what yo do exactly, i would oracle you want to compile something. if so, you propably need libqt4-dev
• 1098[10:15:17] <towo^work> oxek, because it's not possible
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• 1100[10:15:52] <towo^work> oxek, many packages can't be backported since they have dependencies, whoch are not in debian stable
• 1101[10:16:02] <towo^work> s/whoch/which
• 1102[10:17:28] <oxek> can't the dependancies be backported too then?
• 1103[10:17:44] <Unit193> ...At that point, it sounds like you want to use testing?
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• 1105[10:19:47] <oxek> well, my ideal distro would be long-term versions of kernel and all the related system stuff, long-term versions of apps where developers provide long-term releases officially (like firefox-esr), and then the latest versions of all the other apps
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• 1107[10:20:18] <Unit193> The kernel is in backports. :P
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• 1109[10:20:44] <oxek> I seem to be fighting with debian stable all the time because I like having the stable versions of kernel etc. but would like to have a working version of e.g. youtube-dl (which exists in stable), a version of scrcpy (which exists in testing but not stable), etc.
• 1110[10:22:40] <oxek> Unit193: yeah but if I get debian testing, then I get the newest version of kernel, I can't easily get the lts version.
• 1111[10:23:18] <oxek> essentially, I am ok with userspace apps breaking on occasion, but am not ok with kernelspace apps breaking.
• 1112[10:23:46] <oxek> and I don't know how to achieve this combination in debian
• 1113[10:25:16] <Unit193> A major release of GNOME just happened, it broke for some testing/unstable users. If it were automatically backported, the same may well happen for stable users which seems far less than ideal.
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• 1117[10:28:56] <oxek> you're right. I would however consider gnome to be on the level of "kernelspace" rather than a user app.
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• 1125[10:35:51] <Antoine-> Hello, I am trying to set up ssh-agent forwarding. On the remote server, is `ssh-add -l` supposed to display the same lines as when I do it on my local computer?
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• 1144[10:56:45] <jjakob> If I set max mount count to 1 on an ext4 fs, it should get force checked on reboot, right?
• 1145[10:57:52] <jjakob> Trying to debug why it doesn't get fscked even if it's corrupted (this is a custom built distro using live-build)
• 1146[10:59:11] <jjakob> Yeah, max mount count 1, mount count 9, not getting fscked
• 1147[11:00:24] <jjakob> of course, it isn't in fstab at all, but it gets manually mounted by scripts, it probably needs to be in fstab to get checked
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• 1152[11:06:53] <jjakob> which script in initramfs does fsck? (on Buster)
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• 1159[11:11:17] <n_1-c_k> jjakob, maybe '# touch /forcefsck' before reboot?
• 1160[11:11:57] <jjakob> I don't think it does that if it isn't in fstab
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• 1162[11:13:28] <jjakob> I'll try adding it to fstab with noauto so the script can still mount it on its own (it's a pretty complicated custom build system that uses squashfs ro images and mounts / with overlayfs)
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• 1164[11:14:53] <jjakob> or maybe it's a function of init (systemd) itself and not scripts now?
• 1165[11:15:36] <Antoine-> I have "AllowAgentForwarding yes" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config in my server and "Host my_server ForwardAgent yes" in my .ssh/config on my client.
• 1166[11:16:03] <Antoine-> I must be missing something.. On my client ssh-add -l lists my keys but I don't seem to have them on my server.
• 1167[11:16:35] <Antoine-> Do I need to eval `ssh-agent` on my server? I put it on my .zshrc. I don't know if it's the proper place to put it
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• 1169[11:16:49] <mutante> Antoine-: do you also do "ssh -A" when connecting?
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• 1171[11:17:17] <jjakob> purism got hacked once I think because they had agentforwarding on
• 1172[11:18:00] <jjakob> rather the machine that had agentforwarding got hacked and they used that to get to all other machines
• 1173[11:18:06] <jjakob> iirc
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• 1175[11:18:25] <Antoine-> And I have "Remote: /home/antoine/.ssh/authorized_keys:1: key options: agent-forwarding port-forwarding pty user-rc x11-forwarding" displayed when I do ssh -vvv
• 1176[11:18:37] <Antoine-> mutate: I tried with and without -A
• 1177[11:19:01] <Antoine-> I thought -A wasn't needed since I have ForwardAgent yes in my .ssh/config
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• 1180[11:19:50] <Antoine-> jjakob: Oh yes that's a problem :s. But it might be better than leaving all my private keys directly on the machine, right?
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• 1182[11:21:12] <Antoine-> I wonder if my eval `ssh-agent` is at the right place. Because then I need to kill it before logging off, which seems weird to me
• 1183[11:21:57] <jjakob> I'd open ssh port forwards to other machines on the first one and just directly connect to them through the port forward
• 1184[11:22:10] <jjakob> if ssh to that one machine is all you have
• 1185[11:22:26] <jjakob> personally I have openvpn to the router
• 1186[11:23:08] <jjakob> storing your private key on anything other than your machine = big no-no
• 1187[11:23:55] <jjakob> ssh -NL 20022:remote_ip:22 you@proxyserver &
• 1188[11:24:18] <Antoine-> jjakob: Hmm I see. That might be better
• 1189[11:24:18] <jjakob> then do ssh -p 20022 you@localhost
• 1190[11:24:47] <jjakob> use a different local port for each one
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• 1195[11:29:14] <Antoine-> jjakob: Ok I'll probably not use agent-forwarding then :)
• 1196[11:29:23] <Antoine-> But I still wonder why it doesn't work..
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• 1201[11:34:47] <jjakob> idk, never used agent forwarding
• 1202[11:35:43] <jjakob> doesn't it decrypt your session on the intermediate host? if that host gets hacked it can be used to intercept that session
• 1203[11:36:12] <jjakob> in the port forward case the session stays encrypted to the end host
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• 1209[11:45:01] <mutante> yes, agent forwarding is dangerous. if somebody has or gets root on the machine you are connecting to they can steal your key
• 1210[11:45:15] <mutante> better use ProxyCommand or ProxyJump in ssh config
• 1211[11:45:36] <mutante> you get the same convenience without the forwarding
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• 1216[11:48:09] <Antoine-> mutante: I didn't know about proxyjump! Very nice!
• 1217[11:48:20] <Antoine-> jjakob: Yep ok :). I won't do it then!
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• 1219[11:48:44] <grauzikas> hello, today i have noticed that i cant update my server (debian stretch) via apt because of error:
• 1220[11:48:44] <grauzikas> Err:1 replaced-url
• 1221[11:48:45] <grauzikas> Temporary failure resolving 'mirror'
• 1222[11:49:03] <grauzikas> first about i thougth was dns or unreachable mirror
• 1223[11:49:19] <grauzikas> checked both, server is reachable, dns works perfect
• 1224[11:49:50] <grauzikas> then i checked that all mirrors in strecth doesnt has that file.... can it be that debian some how deleted it?
• 1225[11:51:13] <grauzikas> replaced-url
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• 1229[11:57:07] <mutante> grauzikas: kind of sounds like resolving mirror to the actual closest mirror server failed
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• 1231[11:57:53] <mutante> i would try replacing replaced-url
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• 1233[11:58:17] <mutante> it seems odd that there is no TLD at all and it's supposed to resolve
• 1234[11:58:38] <grauzikas> i changed mirror because there is no matter what mirror is used
• 1235[11:58:43] <grauzikas> with all mirrors same issue
• 1236[11:58:58] <grauzikas> because there is no file inrelease at all
• 1237[11:59:12] <grauzikas> buster has that file, strech no
• 1238[11:59:18] <mutante> when reporting issues it's best to paste the actual error and not replace stuff
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• 1240[11:59:56] <mutante> grauzikas: i see, but a missing file would not result in "failure to resolve" error. i would expect a 404 then
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• 1242[12:01:46] <mutante> grauzikas: here is some more info on what InRelease means replaced-url
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• 1245[12:02:48] <grauzikas> replaced-url
• 1246[12:04:42] <grauzikas> probably some had hard day and did something with all stretch mirror
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• 1249[12:07:54] <mutante> grauzikas: still sounds like a DNS problem ..hmmm
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• 1251[12:09:16] <mutante> you could try adding it to /etc/hosts manually or change the DNS server in /etc/resolv.conf
• 1252[12:09:34] <mutante> or maybe apt-get update -o Acquire::ForceIPv4=true
• 1253[12:09:56] <grauzikas> dig +short mirror.vpsnet.com
• 1254[12:09:56] <grauzikas> 91.211.244.15
• 1255[12:09:56] <grauzikas> dig @8.8.8.8 +short mirror.vpsnet.com
• 1256[12:09:56] <grauzikas> 91.211.244.15
• 1257[12:10:08] <grauzikas> yes ipv6 may be issue
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• 1261[12:11:29] <grauzikas> tryed to change dns to 8.8.8.8 in resolv.conf, didnt helped so probably issue not with dns
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• 1266[12:17:02] <grauzikas> added line in hosts
• 1267[12:17:09] <grauzikas> added another nameserver
• 1268[12:17:13] <grauzikas> replaced-url
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• 1270[12:17:24] <grauzikas> it gets update list
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• 1273[12:19:35] <grauzikas> but it wont update replaced-url
• 1274[12:19:42] <grauzikas> i can download files one by one
• 1275[12:20:01] <grauzikas> ghm.. may be need try to download all them to deb directory
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• 1279[12:24:18] <mutante> grauzikas: maybe try to create a fresh sources.list from replaced-url
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• 1281[12:30:04] <grauzikas> replaced-url
• 1282[12:30:10] <grauzikas> something is broken may be
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• 1286[12:33:44] <Dagger> something is clearly broken with name resolution
• 1287[12:34:05] <Dagger> try `getent ahosts deb.debian.org`
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• 1289[12:34:31] <fluxwave> Changed locale from LC_ALL=C to LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8, now getting those diamond question marks in manpages, w3m, pstree, etc. Do you have to reboot for it to properly take effect?
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• 1291[12:35:08] <Dagger> although apt-get uses SRV records which complicates things (and if e.g. wget works on the same URL, maybe that's where the difference is)
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• 1293[12:35:34] <grauzikas> replaced-url
• 1294[12:36:58] <Dagger> that looks fine, at least
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• 1297[12:38:51] <Dagger> maybe try `dig SRV _http._tcp.deb.debian.org` and verify you get a record back? (it should give "_http._tcp.deb.debian.org. 300 IN SRV 10 1 80 prod.debian.map.fastly.net.")
• 1298[12:40:31] <grauzikas> dig +short SRV _http._tcp.deb.debian.org
• 1299[12:40:31] <grauzikas> 10 1 80 prod.debian.map.fastly.net.
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• 1301[12:41:25] <Dagger> also sounds fine. no clue where that lookup error is coming from then
• 1302[12:42:20] <Dagger> I'd probably try `tcpdump -ni any port 53` and staring at it to see if anything stands out
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• 1304[12:43:38] <Dagger> it can sometimes be worth looking at /etc/nsswitch.conf too -- if the hosts line is anything other than "hosts: files dns` then there's extra stuff happening in your name lookups, although again I'm not sure how apt-get's SRV record support interacts here
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• 1306[12:45:53] <grauzikas> ok, thank you, i will try to check by my self and if it will not help will need to think about rewrite OS, nothing complex and very important on that server so some times faster to rewrite server. And previous that server was administrated by unknown person, so may be he did something.
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• 1378[14:04:39] <obiwahn> !nvz++
• 1379[14:05:05] <dvs> ???
• 1380[14:05:43] <obiwahn> dpkg, karma nvz
• 1381[14:05:43] <dpkg> nvz has karma of 16
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• 1384[14:08:39] <nvz> dvs: its from hours ago
• 1385[14:09:06] <nvz> dvs: they werent aware it seems of dpkg's karma system and were I gathered trying to do what they just did
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• 1388[14:10:38] <dvs> oh ok
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• 1396[14:14:44] <nvz> I had demonstrated the use of it I guess they just got around to reading it
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• 1441[14:49:09] <muAdmDev> I guess my server crashed, kern.log show "^@...^@" next entry is the "Linux version 4.9.0-6-amd64" of the system rebooting. I installed "crash" and yould use some hints on how to get to the root of all evil :)
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• 1507[15:50:20] <neilthereildeil> hey guys
• 1508[15:50:41] <neilthereildeil> im trying to gt opencl working on debian with an ATI card
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• 1510[15:50:53] <neilthereildeil> which package shoul i install?
• 1511[15:51:01] <neilthereildeil> should*
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• 1526[16:02:35] <AndreasLutro> muAdmDev: the @'s tend to indicate NUL bytes which typically means something went horribly wrong at the filesystem/kernel level. you can try to look at log lines before the @s or around the same time in other log files but it might also be something entirely out of your control, such as the hypervisor having had issues
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• 1538[16:18:04] <lwp> oxek, you can install the latest, greatest youtube-dl from its maintainers, alongside the debian version, see this dpkg advice:
• 1539[16:18:10] <lwp> !youtube-dl
• 1540[16:18:10] <dpkg> youtube-dl is a command line utility for downloading videos from <youtube> and other sites, and is available from debian repositories, but that version is not usually the newest. The most up-to-date version can be installed directly by instructions at replaced-url
• 1541[16:18:42] <joeatt> I need a goood soul to help me tweak my grub to enter in pure tty with 1024x768. I enter in 1024 and after the terminal shows goes back in low resolution
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• 1544[16:20:21] <joeatt> tryed GFXMODE=640x480 to 1024
• 1545[16:20:43] <joeatt> but i am missing something
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• 1551[16:24:14] <PaddyF> friendly greetings
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• 1554[16:27:58] <joeatt> replaced-url
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• 1556[16:28:28] <joeatt> 00_header content
• 1557[16:28:34] <joeatt> of grub
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• 1559[16:29:50] <jim> joeatt, maybe someone on #grub could help
• 1560[16:30:15] <PaddyF> is there a way to let python3 use a different language setting? i tried "lang=de python3" and variants of that, also with exports, without, etc.
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• 1563[16:31:52] <jim> try LANG=de
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• 1565[16:32:08] <jim> or LC_ALL=de
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• 1567[16:34:03] <PaddyF> when i pass "locale" as command to this "LANG=de_DE" (or variants of it) it shows the change. is the problem python then?
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• 1583[16:50:59] <joeatt> jim: #grub is not responsive :-(
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• 1588[16:57:29] <PaddyF> looks i am trying to display a german page that does not exist
• 1589[16:57:51] * PaddyF closes his "ticket"
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• 1606[17:11:08] <oxek> lwp: already done, thanks, it works. I'd however prefer a centrally managed solution using debian & apt eventually.
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• 1623[17:28:03] <jjakob> How does the initramfs init know which filesystems to check based on fstab?
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• 1626[17:28:47] <jjakob> I checked what gets put into it by mkinitramfs and etc/fstab is just an empty file (touched by mkinitramfs)
• 1627[17:28:55] <jjakob> But mtab gets put in there
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• 1632[17:29:40] <jjakob> But etc/mtab has all fsck fields 0
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• 1636[17:31:07] <jjakob> Well as far as I can see, the initramfs can't do fsck because even grep can't find a fstab line for my root fs in it
• 1637[17:31:37] <jjakob> So it must be done just by systemd-fsck.service after root has already been mounted
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• 1639[17:32:46] <jjakob> and the culprit is /usr/sbin/mkinitramfs which does 'touch ${destdir}/etc/fstab
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• 1642[17:33:09] <jjakob> maybe I can copy_file it into there after that
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• 1648[17:35:50] <jjakob> Nope, copy_file "we never overwrite the target if it exists"
• 1649[17:35:59] <jjakob> Why does it have to be so difficult
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• 1651[17:37:46] <lwp> oxek, well, you have the apt version in /usr/bin/youtube-dl, updated on debian's schedule, but when some video repo changes its workings, you also have the option to tell the /usr/local/bin/youtube-dl version to update itself right now
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• 1655[17:39:13] <jjakob> maybe I can just force cp fstab by myself in a hook, yeah
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• 1664[17:45:37] <jjakob> yep, 'cp -fpP /etc/fstab ${DESTDIR}/etc/fstab' in a hook actually worked, now to see if it runs fsck on boot
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• 1672[17:51:07] <Lope> is it possible to move a log file /foo.log to /tmp/foo.log where /tmp/ is a tmpfs WHILE the log file is open and being written to by some process?
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• 1674[17:51:29] <Lope> without messing up the open file handle, so it will continue writing to the file at the new location?
• 1675[17:51:40] <greycat> You'll get a copy of the log file's contents which may include partial writes from whatever's writing.
• 1676[17:51:54] <Lope> greycat, thanks, yes I know what happens.
• 1677[17:52:01] <greycat> It will be a NEW file, because it's in a different file system.
• 1678[17:52:10] <greycat> Nothing is preserved except content.
• 1679[17:52:11] <Lope> greycat, I want to know if there's a way to do it such that the file handle points to the new file?
• 1680[17:52:14] <greycat> No.
• 1681[17:52:30] <Lope> okay, then can I set a max size on a XFS file?
• 1682[17:52:41] <Lope> max size on a file in an XFS filesystem
• 1683[17:52:42] <jjakob> Nope, still no dice. Anyone have any idea how I can get my root fs checked in initramfs instead of later by systemd-fsck.service?
• 1684[17:53:07] <greycat> Usually artificial limits like that are done by setrlimit() on a process basis...
• 1685[17:53:16] <Lope> basically x2go loses it's shit sometimes and fills up a log file in ~
• 1686[17:53:20] <jjakob> Where do the initramfs-tools folks hang out?
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• 1688[17:53:34] <greycat> there's RLIMIT_FSIZE in setrlimit()
• 1689[17:53:52] <greycat> you can set that limit on the process before launching it
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• 1691[17:54:04] <greycat> (if it's launched by a shell script, use ulimit)
• 1692[17:54:14] <Lope> greycat, thanks, not quite what I'm looking for, but may work.
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• 1697[17:56:52] <jjakob> i'll try debian-kernel@lists.debian.org
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• 1701[17:59:10] <jjakob> actually I'll look at how ubuntu does it, since they supposedly do fsck in initrd...
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• 1774[18:37:49] <ens> hi, i'm trying to do a debootstrap. The command line is: "debootstrap --variant=minbase buster buster". This retreives the packages and validates them. When it goes to the extraction phase I get an error.
• 1775[18:37:53] <ens> E: Tried to extract package, but file already exists. Exit...
• 1776[18:38:12] <ens> looks like something added in this commit: replaced-url
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• 1778[18:38:22] <ens> but i'm not sure what to do. Is there some cache I can clear?
• 1779[18:38:58] <ens> the directory 'buster' was freshly created, no files or directories present before running the command.
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• 1804[19:01:30] <lwp> !devuan
• 1805[19:01:31] <dpkg> Devuan (replaced-url
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• 1811[19:02:47] <adga137> Hello, debian hurd what is actual version?
• 1812[19:02:49] <annadane> debootstrap doesn't mean the user is using devuan, though
• 1813[19:03:16] <lwp> well that url looks like a devian commit
• 1814[19:03:23] <lwp> devuan
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• 1816[19:03:38] <annadane> though by the wording it looks like ens is using devuan as the host, yeah...
• 1817[19:03:44] <annadane> never mind
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• 1831[19:19:45] <ens> sorry. back from debugging. i'm not using deuvan i'm using debian with the debootstrap package debootstrap_1.0.114_all.deb
• 1832[19:20:46] <sney> if you are using devuan's debootstrap package with their modifications, you should probably ask them for support
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• 1838[19:27:56] <ens> i'm not, i'm not actually using anything to do with devuan. i just saw that commit and saw it was the same code in 'functions' script on my filesystem and thought it might be relevant
• 1839[19:28:32] <ens> i think i might just put some kinda echo above the relevant line so i can see what command line args are passed in and if i can debug.
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• 1866[19:58:04] <Aurora_v_kosmose> How did Debian solve the Mozilla Firefox trademark issue in the end anyway?
• 1867[19:59:38] <sney> replaced-url
• 1868[20:00:02] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Ah, nice. Thanks.
• 1869[20:01:21] <Wulf> Aurora_v_kosmose: maybe described here? replaced-url
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• 1875[20:03:12] <Aurora_v_kosmose> The glandium tracker comments also reference it.
• 1876[20:05:49] <sney> I had forgotten as well, and reading these links now, it seems like debian didn't solve anything; rather, mozilla just eventually got over themselves.
• 1877[20:06:03] <Aurora_v_kosmose> huh
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• 1883[20:15:38] <flayer> they were being silly
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• 1885[20:17:10] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Presumably
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• 1889[20:17:42] <shirak> Hi, Mos Here
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• 1897[20:20:39] <Ede|Popede> !matrix
• 1898[20:20:39] <dpkg> it has been said that matrix is the coolest movie that ever existed. If you want to know what it is about, then go watch it .
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• 1902[20:20:53] <Ede|Popede> does a native client exist in debian?
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• 1904[20:21:53] <Aurora_v_kosmose> nheko?
• 1905[20:22:19] <annadane> ,i nheko
• 1906[20:22:20] <judd> Package nheko (net, optional) in buster/amd64: desktop IM client for the Matrix protocol. Version: 0.6.3-2; Size: 3937.3k; Installed: 8961k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 1907[20:22:25] <Aurora_v_kosmose> And quaternion, apparently
• 1908[20:22:26] <annadane> oh cool
• 1909[20:22:27] <Aurora_v_kosmose> ,quaternion
• 1910[20:22:34] <Aurora_v_kosmose> ,i quaternion
• 1911[20:22:35] <judd> Package quaternion (net, optional) in buster/amd64: desktop IM client for the Matrix protocol. Version: 0.0.9.3-1; Size: 250.0k; Installed: 889k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 1915[20:23:12] <Aurora_v_kosmose> Nheko died and was reborn (forked)
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• 1921[20:28:31] <Ede|Popede> oh cool
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• 1934[20:38:25] <joeatt> im aliiiive
• 1935[20:41:28] <Ede|Popede> any idea how to use tar's --one-top-level to unpack to a subdirectory?
• 1936[20:42:18] <Ede|Popede> > Extract all files into DIR, or, if used without argument, into a subdirectory named by the base name of the archive <-- doesn't work at all w/o the directory name, even with i get an error
• 1937[20:42:32] *** Parts: Aurora_v_kosmose (~Aurora_iz@replaced-ip) ("thanks")
• 1938[20:43:17] <Ede|Popede> and when i create the directory in advance it REMOVES it and writes the file into its place (or is it because control.tar.xz##/control?)
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• 1941[20:44:21] <Ede|Popede> yes, it is. *fp. it can't handle /$file inside of the $file.$ext archive?
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• 1981[21:14:32] <ragouel> why is debian still a thing, shouldn't you be using ArchLinux or something ?
• 1982[21:14:56] <greycat> !why debian
• 1983[21:14:57] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
• 1984[21:14:57] *** Joins: sixtysix (~sixtysix@replaced-ip)
• 1985[21:15:54] <ragouel> greycat: thanks for not kicking me XD
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• 1987[21:17:22] *** Joins: nulix (~Macro@replaced-ip)
• 1988[21:17:43] <Ede|Popede> ragouel: the fact that debian is around like forever isn't a reason not to use it. and that's true for a lot of things in general, newer (as in sth new, not as is new version) isn't always better
• 1989[21:18:41] <somiaj> ragouel: use case and community are huge factors in deciding what distro to use.
• 1990[21:19:03] <somiaj> many like debian's philosophy (see the social contract), its development cycle, and what it calls stable.
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• 2005[21:40:26] <L0aD1nG> yesterday i connected to irc.oftc.net there are many channels about debian there too
• 2006[21:40:51] <nvz> L0aD1nG: uh yeah.. thats where ALL the debian channels are
• 2007[21:40:51] <somiaj> !oftc move
• 2008[21:40:52] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
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• 2013[21:41:11] <joeatt> yessterdaaay alll my troubles seems so faaar away
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• 2015[21:41:35] <L0aD1nG> though there is not a big channel for debian there like this one
• 2016[21:41:49] <greycat> The only Debian channels that *aren't* on OFTC are this one, #debian-offtopic, and some of the non-English-language channels.
• 2017[21:42:27] <nvz> L0aD1nG: this /was/ the Debian channel for a long time Debian moved officially to a new network.. this is now just the reminants of the old channel
• 2018[21:42:28] <L0aD1nG> greycat: yea but this one here is the biggest.. right?
• 2019[21:42:52] <nvz> many of us didnt wanna leave
• 2020[21:43:01] <nvz> didnt really agree with the decision
• 2021[21:43:06] <L0aD1nG> nvz: there is not even close a big channel like that on irc.oftc.net i checked..
• 2022[21:43:12] <nvz> I only recently started hanging on OFTC too
• 2023[21:43:37] *** Joins: fnstudio (~test@replaced-ip)
• 2024[21:43:45] <greycat> The Debian developers all decided to move to OFTC, and the Debian users all decided to stay here. Well, mostly.
• 2025[21:43:49] <nvz> cause thats the majority of my contribution is irc support and I figured it wouldnt kill me to be on both
• 2026[21:44:07] <nvz> I still dont like the situation and rather be here :P
• 2027[21:44:31] <Ede|Popede> seems i've only been in debian related channels on OFTC since i switched to oldstable
• 2028[21:44:37] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2029[21:45:43] <Ede|Popede> and then there was irc.mozilla.org. and gimp also were on their own iirc. and i really don't feel like taking care for a dozen irc accounts or keep all those networks open all the time
• 2030[21:46:56] <L0aD1nG> i just wanted to ask some questions for tor and connected there but i should register to even join the main channel and i didnt
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• 2034[21:48:40] <nvz> Ede|Popede: yeah it just feels like an inconvenience to me over stuff I don't care about
• 2035[21:49:35] <Ede|Popede> may be i've lost my nick there already. haven't been there since december
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• 2039[21:50:22] <nvz> says created in 2015, verified, last seen in Dec
• 2040[21:50:31] *** Quits: k-man_ (~jason@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2041[21:50:45] <Ede|Popede> yay, still there. tkx.
• 2042[21:50:57] <nvz> I'm a lil pissy about them releasing my account while I was away
• 2043[21:51:16] <nvz> especially since I encountered plenty of friction trying to get staff to do things for me :P
• 2044[21:51:38] <nvz> makes me appear like a noob on records when I been here since like 2002
• 2045[21:51:44] <Ede|Popede> lost it here after i didn't connect for like 3 month. had a hiatus of 3+ years before, if not longer. they didn't purge it during that period. would be 16 years now :(
• 2046[21:52:56] <nvz> I believe it was late 02 or early 03
• 2047[21:53:05] *** Joins: ceska (~Cieska@replaced-ip)
• 2048[21:53:18] <nvz> I know I'd burned a full 3 cd set of 2.2r6 then woody had released shortly after
• 2049[21:53:37] <Ede|Popede> some admin offered help, took me hours to find my old password :D
• 2050[21:54:03] <nvz> for irc I always just used phonetic non-words
• 2051[21:54:09] <Ede|Popede> woody was 5? wasn't it the one that took forever?
• 2052[21:54:15] *** Quits: Makerblaker (~Makerblak@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2053[21:54:18] <nvz> ladeedadada or something
• 2054[21:54:19] *** Joins: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip)
• 2055[21:54:29] <Ede|Popede> i think i've seen someone around 04/05 waiting for the release
• 2056[21:54:33] <greycat> !woody
• 2057[21:54:33] <dpkg> Woody is the codename for Debian GNU/Linux 3.0, released on July 19, 2002. Security support for woody was terminated on 2006-06-30. Woody was archived on 2007-01-10, ISOs are available from replaced-url
• 2058[21:54:34] <nvz> lower security than I'd use on most things
• 2059[21:55:12] <greycat> From the days of the defective capacitors.
• 2060[21:55:19] <nvz> hmm I hadn't realized when I came back from OFTC I was in the main channel not the -ot channel until I saw greycat :P
• 2061[21:55:33] <Ede|Popede> uh. i'm really horrible with names.
• 2062[21:55:57] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2063[21:56:14] <nvz> I probably didnt get here right off the bat but I know I got here prior to that woody release so I guess it was actually early 2002
• 2064[21:56:25] <nvz> piggy would know
• 2065[21:56:37] <Ede|Popede> ah, woody to sarge were 3 years
• 2066[21:56:50] <nvz> was using variants of nandrew back then.. werdnan and such..
• 2067[21:57:00] *** Quits: nulix (~Macro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Sleep())
• 2068[21:57:10] <nvz> then seen so many people with short nicks here and I liked the idea
• 2069[21:57:40] <nvz> most the 1 and 2 letter nicks seemed to be taken
• 2070[21:58:45] <nvz> those were the good ol days
• 2071[21:58:51] <nvz> right before shit got crazy
• 2072[21:59:02] <nvz> migrations to devfs, hal, udev..
• 2073[21:59:05] *** Joins: tgunr (~davec@replaced-ip)
• 2074[21:59:13] <nvz> it got turbulant for awhile
• 2075[22:00:04] <Ede|Popede> it really was easier getting into this stuff. was far less than today.
• 2076[22:00:21] <Ede|Popede> even before systemd, but now... phew.
• 2077[22:00:43] <nvz> really for me systemd was less a shock.. it worked.. rather smoothly.. it was just a learning curve figuring out how far systemd's tenticles went
• 2078[22:01:00] <nvz> I'd tried changing the time and couldnt figure out wtf it wasnt working.. systemd.. lots of similar issues
• 2079[22:01:18] *** Quits: tds (~tds@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2080[22:02:05] <nvz> can no longer access dmesg/kmesg the same, primary logging became binary.. lots of little changes but it ran smoothly enough you didnt notice anything changed at first
• 2081[22:02:10] *** Quits: fission6 (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: fission6)
• 2082[22:02:27] <nvz> it wasn't like that at all with the whole devfs/hal/udev changes
• 2083[22:02:34] <nvz> the shit was rough
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• 2086[22:03:20] *** Joins: tobra (~tobra@replaced-ip)
• 2087[22:03:31] <nvz> and the audio was another thing that got real crazy.. with all the various sound daemons, that all sucked.. two different kernel subsystems..
• 2088[22:03:47] <tobra> Hello… My apt is throwing errors after running a dist-upgrade
• 2089[22:04:03] *** Quits: mzajc (~marko@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2090[22:04:05] <nvz> tobra: well we are going to need to see those errors and possibly more
• 2091[22:04:13] <nvz> !bat
• 2092[22:04:13] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 2093[22:04:19] <tobra> nvz on it ;-9
• 2094[22:04:57] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip)
• 2095[22:05:02] <tobra> nvz this is how it looks after `apt- --fix-broken install` replaced-url
• 2096[22:05:40] *** Joins: valentin (valentinne@replaced-ip)
• 2097[22:05:42] <tobra> This is `apt-get upgrade` replaced-url
• 2098[22:05:54] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip)
• 2099[22:06:02] *** Joins: R0b0t1` (~R0b0t1@replaced-ip)
• 2100[22:06:24] <R0b0t1`> hi, is there a good instruction page on how to build a kernel for debian? I need to build a kernel and a module specifically for my arm device
• 2101[22:06:26] <nvz> ,v libgstreamer
• 2102[22:06:28] <judd> No package named 'libgstreamer' was found in amd64.
• 2103[22:06:40] <nvz> R0b0t1`: yes and we have manuals for that
• 2104[22:06:43] <tobra> yep… what can I do about that
• 2105[22:06:52] <nvz> R0b0t1`: yes and we have manuals for that-gl1
• 2106[22:06:58] <nvz> ,v libgstreamer-gl1
• 2107[22:06:59] <judd> No package named 'libgstreamer-gl1' was found in amd64.
• 2108[22:07:08] <nvz> ,v libgstreamer-gl11.0
• 2109[22:07:09] <judd> No package named 'libgstreamer-gl11.0' was found in amd64.
• 2110[22:07:27] <nvz> I should've just copied and pasted the text is too small over there on that screen :P
• 2111[22:07:36] *** Quits: valentin (valentinne@replaced-ip) (Quit: irc_error)
• 2112[22:07:44] *** Joins: valentin (valentinne@replaced-ip)
• 2113[22:07:49] <nvz> ,v libgstreamer-gl11.0-0
• 2114[22:07:50] <judd> No package named 'libgstreamer-gl11.0-0' was found in amd64.
• 2115[22:08:12] <nvz> meh.. I'm just not firing on all cylinders here
• 2116[22:09:26] *** Quits: dfacto (~qwerty@replaced-ip) (Quit: ...)
• 2117[22:10:00] <nvz> tobra: is this all from a routine stable update?
• 2118[22:10:32] <nvz> or were you upgrading from an oldstable or something?
• 2119[22:11:07] *** Quits: tobra (~tobra@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2120[22:11:49] <L0aD1nG> when i was upgrading from debian stretch to buster i had to do "apt-get --fix-broken install" too but it worked...
• 2121[22:12:14] *** Joins: tobra (~goiken@replaced-ip)
• 2122[22:12:24] <tobra> sry got dc… did I miss an answer?
• 2123[22:12:44] <nvz> tobra: I asked if this was an upgrade from oldstable or just a normal stable upgrade that started all this
• 2124[22:13:08] <tobra> nvz from stretch to buster.
• 2125[22:13:21] <nvz> ah.. well that makes more sense..
• 2126[22:13:25] * nvz checks
• 2127[22:13:32] *** Joins: robobox2 (~robobox2@replaced-ip)
• 2128[22:14:06] <nvz> tobra: you didnt read the release notes
• 2129[22:14:14] *** Quits: tgunr (~davec@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 2130[22:14:18] <nvz> or didnt follow them if you did
• 2131[22:14:22] *** Joins: fission6 (~textual@replaced-ip)
• 2132[22:14:23] <nvz> is what the problem is
• 2133[22:14:42] *** Quits: foka (~foka@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2134[22:15:03] <tobra> I guess… there were a couple of really long docs that i got prompted for.
• 2135[22:15:03] <nvz> for a long time now Ch4 of the release notes for every release has said to disable all non official repos and remove any non official packages
• 2136[22:15:13] <nvz> dmo has been known for a LONG time to cause issues
• 2137[22:15:30] <nvz> and thats what your problem is a file conflict between an official and a dmo package
• 2138[22:15:50] *** Quits: robobox2 (~robobox2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2139[22:16:27] <tobra> replaced-url
• 2140[22:16:31] <nvz> tobra: for future reference you should ALWAYS go to the debian website and get the release notes for the release youre upgrading to and at least read chapter 4
• 2141[22:16:39] <nvz> yes
• 2142[22:17:09] <nvz> there are often well known and documented issues that can be avoided by doing so
• 2143[22:17:10] <tobra> yeah… I guess I’d rather do a fresh install instead
• 2144[22:17:40] <nvz> well its up to you but you need only remove dmo and its packages as described in the release notes or just let dpkg quash the file and see what happens
• 2145[22:17:41] *** Joins: gacekjk (~gacekjk@replaced-ip)
• 2146[22:17:55] *** Joins: dfacto (~qwerty@replaced-ip)
• 2147[22:17:56] <nvz> you're better off not using dmo
• 2148[22:18:07] <tobra> dmo?
• 2149[22:18:54] *** Quits: Ycarus (~Ycarus@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ycarus)
• 2150[22:18:56] <nvz> Debian Multimedia is a repository managed by Christian Marillat (prob spelled that wrong) its for special media related stuff
• 2151[22:19:02] <nvz> back in the day it was kinda required for some things
• 2152[22:19:07] <tobra> ok
• 2153[22:19:40] <nvz> we had issues where we couldnt include mp3 encoders and dvd encryption stuff and such in the past
• 2154[22:19:48] <nvz> and DMO was rather necessary for most people
• 2155[22:19:52] <nvz> thats not the case anymore
• 2156[22:20:06] <tobra> yeah… I remember doing somewthing like that
• 2157[22:20:10] <nvz> now its just a good way to break a debian system
• 2158[22:20:29] <nvz> and says as much on our wiki and in the release notes
• 2159[22:20:37] <nvz> as anyone here could tell you the same.. we all know
• 2160[22:21:43] <nvz> R0b0t1`: are you wanting to just rebuild the debian kernel or build a new one from upstream?
• 2161[22:22:19] <nvz> R0b0t1`: I apologize, I'm not real .. conscious right now :P
• 2162[22:22:26] <nvz> couldnt even think of the right word
• 2163[22:22:44] <annadane> !coffee nvz
• 2164[22:22:44] * dpkg decants a fine broth of organic, fair trade Peruvian for nvz, courtesy of annadane
• 2165[22:22:44] *** Joins: robobox2 (~robobox2@replaced-ip)
• 2166[22:22:54] <R0b0t1`> nvz: new from upstream, but rebuilding current or stable is fine
• 2167[22:23:08] *** Quits: chmykh (~chmykh@replaced-ip) (Quit: chmykh)
• 2168[22:23:10] <R0b0t1`> nvz: I need to change build options of a module, and/or compile a new one
• 2169[22:23:28] <R0b0t1`> nvz: specifically g_multi options and new module g_ffs (usb gadget function filesystem)
• 2170[22:23:32] <nvz> R0b0t1`: well from upstream its all included in the kernel now.. you just do something like make menuconfig or such then make deb-whatever
• 2171[22:23:47] <nvz> if I werent so groggy I'd remember what the default binary target for deb is
• 2172[22:23:52] <R0b0t1`> then how do I use it
• 2173[22:24:02] <R0b0t1`> I can compile it already, that is the sticking point
• 2174[22:24:03] <nvz> R0b0t1`: just install the deb package(s)
• 2175[22:24:06] <R0b0t1`> ah
• 2176[22:24:08] *** Quits: zylyb (~zyley@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2177[22:24:17] <nvz> the deb targets compile and built the package
• 2178[22:24:18] <tobra> ok thx for the advice… I’m off.
• 2179[22:24:20] *** Quits: tobra (~goiken@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2180[22:24:41] <nvz> there are only two steps for most people now, a configure and a make deb-something-or-other
• 2181[22:24:42] <R0b0t1`> looks like it's deb-pkg, thanks for heads up nvz
• 2182[22:25:24] <nvz> I need to do this too.. when I built this 5.x kernel I apparently set the CPUs to 2
• 2183[22:25:41] <nvz> thing is I have a i5-4300U and it can do 4 threads
• 2184[22:25:42] <nvz> heh
• 2185[22:25:56] <nvz> but not with this kernel cause I fudged it :P
• 2186[22:26:03] *** Joins: mzajc (~marko@replaced-ip)
• 2187[22:27:06] <nvz> I think I'm just gonna do a clean install on this machine and maybe even just put a new SSD in it before I really bother going through that again.. those 5.x kernels require a LOT of space to build
• 2188[22:27:57] <oiaohm> nvz so you disabled smt?
• 2189[22:28:08] <nvz> no CONFIG_NR_CPUS=2
• 2190[22:28:17] <nvz> only allowing it to do max of 2
• 2191[22:28:18] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip)
• 2192[22:28:36] <badsektor> could anyone show me what ls -l /etc/fonts/conf.d/10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf shows for you? :)
• 2193[22:28:42] <oiaohm> Ok the other sledge hammer.
• 2194[22:29:24] <nvz> all I know for sure is.. I got a T440 and an X240 and both are the same exact hardware inside.. the X240 shows 4 cpus the T440 running a custom build kernel only shows 2.. and when I looked at the config I saw that
• 2195[22:29:26] <L0aD1nG> badsektor: no such file
• 2196[22:29:31] <greycat> ,file 10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf
• 2197[22:29:34] <judd> Search for 10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf in buster/amd64: fontconfig-config: usr/share/fontconfig/conf.avail/10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf; kodi-data: usr/share/kodi/system/players/VideoPlayer/etc/fonts/conf.avail/10-sub-pixel-rgb.conf
• 2198[22:29:50] <badsektor> thanks!
• 2199[22:30:04] <oiaohm> nvz: Intel Core i5-4300U only physically has 2 cores to show 4 you are seeing 2 generated by SMT.
• 2200[22:30:20] <nvz> if its really affecting my performance or if thats the option causing it.. i'm not really certain of right now
• 2201[22:30:32] <oiaohm> That is why SMT disabled it will go back to 2 as well.
• 2202[22:30:43] <nvz> oiaohm: correct its only a dual-core
• 2203[22:30:50] <nvz> but can do 4 threads
• 2204[22:31:25] <oiaohm> As long as you don't set max or disabled smt in built or nosmt in command line of kernel.
• 2205[22:31:33] <nvz> I think though I dont know as my certs predate these cpus.. that these new core i cpus generate their maximum speeds by disabling the extra threads
• 2206[22:32:04] <nvz> its just the impression I get from them I haven't looked into it
• 2207[22:32:10] <joeatt> i stole a bank yesterday and now own an amd theadripper with massive cores to chat irc, so much faster
• 2208[22:32:28] <oiaohm> Due to SMT security faults a lot of code these days will disable the extra threads when running things.
• 2209[22:32:37] <nvz> greycat: you wanna field that one?
• 2210[22:32:54] <oiaohm> So you don't gain as much in performance from SMT as you use to.
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• 2213[22:33:53] <L0aD1nG> joeatt: give us some money..
• 2214[22:34:04] <nvz> it just that they market them with something like 1.9ghz but say they have a burst or whatever to like 2.9 which is a significant increase.. makes me think it has to disable things to achieve it
• 2215[22:34:28] <nvz> like it turbos by turning the hyperthreading off
• 2216[22:34:33] <oiaohm> nvz: max intel speed is normally when you are down like 1 core active so boost speed will max out. In theory that could be running SMT so 2 threads but in reality no so much.
• 2217[22:34:37] <nvz> and running the cores balls to the wall
• 2218[22:34:50] <oiaohm> Its not SMT it turns off its cores.
• 2219[22:34:51] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 2220[22:34:55] <joeatt> L0aD1nG: as Bill says, the money is to buy vaccines and seeds to african farmers
• 2221[22:35:07] <R0b0t1`> smt is basically 2x speedup as advertised, barring the vuln fixes
• 2222[22:35:15] <nvz> oiaohm: yeah thats what I figured.. it have to disable something to achieve such an increase
• 2223[22:35:17] <R0b0t1`> some workloads don't fit it but general workloads do
• 2224[22:35:23] <oiaohm> R0b0t1`: nop
• 2225[22:35:27] <R0b0t1`> yes
• 2226[22:35:32] <R0b0t1`> go test it
• 2227[22:35:32] <oiaohm> smt never gives a 2x speed up.
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• 2229[22:35:43] <b1ack0p> replaced-url
• 2230[22:35:46] <oiaohm> 1.5 if you are lucky.
• 2231[22:36:15] <R0b0t1`> it's close enough to 2x it's worth calling it 2x. older parts no, the cache was too deep, but if I say build a lot of packages in parallel (actually a good test due to the tree comprehensions etc GCC is doing) I get a clean 2x speedup
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• 2233[22:36:35] <R0b0t1`> like, I've tested it, most recently on my i7 4770k
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• 2235[22:36:50] <R0b0t1`> with the vuln fixes... maybe not, would need to redo it
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• 2237[22:37:02] <b1ack0p> ops
• 2238[22:37:02] <R0b0t1`> sorry s/cache/pipeline/
• 2239[22:37:03] <b1ack0p> sorry
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• 2244[22:44:26] <oiaohm> R0b0t1`: replaced-url
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• 2246[22:46:34] <nvz> I should prob make use of having two machines with same hw to test things like this
• 2247[22:46:51] <nvz> it'd make it easier having more than one machine and doing tests on different configs in parallel
• 2248[22:47:42] <oiaohm> nvz: the answer is no. You have forgot the horrible silicon lottery. There can be major differences chip to chip performance.
• 2249[22:48:05] *** Quits: criti (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2250[22:48:20] <nvz> I mostly just wouldnt mind knowing how to better utilize my hardware
• 2251[22:48:47] <nvz> cause for the most part I am very satisfied with my cheap 7 year old or so machines.. but at times I could use a lil more ooompf
• 2252[22:49:05] <nvz> and everything about these machines is rather foreign to me
• 2253[22:49:12] <oiaohm> nvz: no as for two machines todo testings like this. Two different cpus of different silicon quality could make it appear equal because you put the slowest one on the fastest mode and the fastest one on the slowest mode.
• 2254[22:49:19] <nvz> I'm not used to having an SSD, a Core i or any of this stuff
• 2255[22:49:29] <nvz> its a lot different than machines I had in the past
• 2256[22:49:42] <oiaohm> So this is a horrible thing you have to bench twice on a single machine.
• 2257[22:49:44] <nvz> I also am using FDE now where I didnt before
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• 2259[22:50:49] <nvz> and from what I gathered these SSD behave more like a CDRW in terms of reusing freed space.. and mine is rather small and often near full and I suspect that has a lot to do with lag I see at times
• 2260[22:51:02] <nvz> that its going and doing housekeeping stuff.. but idk
• 2261[22:51:27] <nvz> I'd noticed a lot of poor performance lately and thats what made me realize I didnt have all my threads working
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• 2266[22:52:00] <nvz> though I also added a dock and two additional monitors plus the laptop display
• 2267[22:52:15] <nvz> so I got 3x 1080p displays now regularly
• 2268[22:53:59] <nvz> overall I was blown away when I got these machines but then I started to become aware that I'm not using them properly somehow cause some things they seem worse than much older hardware
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• 2273[23:00:55] <R0b0t1`> oiaohm: the 40% slower is years ago
• 2274[23:01:16] <R0b0t1`> like over a decade now, early 2000s?
• 2275[23:02:14] <R0b0t1`> that's what I was trying to reference, looking at their benchmarks I guess I can concede your point, but a lot of them are not really what I'd consider an even workload
• 2276[23:02:28] <imMute> how is the linux-headers-* package generated? looks like it's more than just running `make install_headers` in the kernel source tree...
• 2277[23:02:34] <R0b0t1`> if that is what you are going to use the chip for you'd be hosed
• 2278[23:03:17] <greycat> when a Debian kernel is built, both an -image and a -headers package are created, from the same *configured* tree, and you need the -headers to build modules
• 2279[23:03:24] <R0b0t1`> also kind of tangential I think newer x86 chips regressed in some performance metrics for some reason
• 2280[23:03:26] <R0b0t1`> hmm
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• 2289[23:08:14] <imMute> greycat: yeah, I get that. I'm building my own kernel for an embedded system, but I'm not sure how to get the files that end up in that -headers package. that's what I'm asking
• 2290[23:08:57] <nvz> imMute: using the mainstream deb-pkg target compiles and builds ALL the packages
• 2291[23:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1399
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• 2293[23:09:26] <nvz> source, binary, headers, docs
• 2294[23:10:24] <imMute> hmm, I knew about that target. maybe I should give that one a spin and see if I like what pops out.
• 2295[23:10:31] <nvz> personally I miss kernel-package.. I could config, patch, build, package all in one command
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• 2299[23:11:16] <nvz> from a user perspective kernel-package was better, from a dev perspective the way it works now is better
• 2300[23:11:28] <nvz> its easier to maintain it seems
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• 2308[23:25:46] <dashs> Can you recommend a nice explicit tutorial for the replacement of a single (loadable) current kernel module?
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• 2318[23:37:14] <ratrace> dashs: replacement?
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• 2320[23:38:59] <imMute> ooh, so with that make deb-pkg, what if I'm cross compiling? is the resulting package for the host arch or the target arch?
• 2321[23:40:01] <oiaohm> R0b0t1`: I have particular workloads today that are 40% slower with SMT on with particular cpus. Turns out SMT on and putting 2 threads on single core results in core using more power so making more heat so more themal throatled.
• 2322[23:40:22] <oiaohm> R0b0t1`: fun of cooling basically.
• 2323[23:42:07] <dashs> ratrace: build just the one module and replace it in /lib/modules
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• 2325[23:44:10] <R0b0t1`> oiaohm: oh wow I'd heard about the thermal lying Intel was doing but didn't know it could get that bad
• 2326[23:44:28] <R0b0t1`> all I knew was that apparently they were lying about how safe it was to let the chips throttle and that they do actually damage themselves quite frequently
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• 2329[23:44:41] <joeatt> beyond 2 cores is useless for home work... unless you need 100 cores for a heavy irc kkkk
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• 2331[23:45:07] <imMute> R0b0t1`: they actually get permanently damaged? I thought they just trottle down really hard when hot. I've never heard of them actualy getting damaged.
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• 2333[23:45:50] <R0b0t1`> yeah apparently the overheating is not entirely benign
• 2334[23:45:54] <joeatt> i exchange 100 cores with 1Ghz for a 2 cores with 5 Ghz
• 2335[23:47:18] *** Joins: hramrach (~hramrach@replaced-ip)
• 2336[23:47:34] <joeatt> empirically and technicallly is the reality
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• 2342[23:55:52] *** Joins: johnfg (~johnfg@replaced-ip)
• 2343[23:56:00] <johnfg> hi folks
• 2344[23:56:00] *** Joins: Intelo (~Intelo___@replaced-ip)
• 2345[23:56:01] <Intelo> I am thinking to combine instances in replaced-url
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• 2347[23:56:35] <johnfg> I had another debian installation on this machine, using around 350gb on this hdd. It's all lvm.
• 2348[23:57:13] *** Quits: boturk (boturk@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2349[23:57:21] <johnfg> Do I just have to add the logical volumes to fstab to be able to use them (reformatting them if I want to clean them up first)?
• 2350[23:58:23] *** Quits: secntech (~secntech@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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• 2352[23:58:58] <oiaohm> R0b0t1`: to be correct running cpu at all is not benign as silicon heats up at all you get atomic drift. Hotter it is the faster that goes.
• 2353[23:59:03] *** Quits: bablux (~cyrillevi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2354[23:59:12] <tomreyn> johnfg: yes
• 2355[23:59:33] <tomreyn> johnfg: or you could make new ones.
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