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• 1[00:00:09] <FUtz> okk
• 2[00:00:20] <FUtz> natewik trek00 thankss
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• 16[00:20:55] <FUtz> natewik the command tee overwrite old file
• 17[00:21:10] <FUtz> natewik i can use like >> ?
• 18[00:21:24] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> tee -a is for append
• 19[00:21:27] <dob1> is there any command to see a clock with seconds?
• 20[00:21:28] <natewik> use tee -a to append
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• 22[00:22:07] <FUtz> :D
• 23[00:22:21] <FUtz> thks
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• 25[00:24:07] <natewik> dob1, date +"%m-%d-%y %H:%M:%S"
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• 27[00:24:44] <dob1> natewik, sorry I was not clear, a clock not just the at a given moment. I found tty-clock
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• 34[00:28:09] <ws2k3> what action should i do to install grub on a gpt disk? when i try to install grub i get grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible.
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• 39[00:34:20] <lupulo> ws2k3, you need a fat partition
• 40[00:34:37] <lupulo> ws2k3, replaced-url
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• 43[00:35:08] <lupulo> ws2k3, because it is like grubx64.efi, inside the fat partition
• 44[00:35:35] <ws2k3> lupulo i run on bios not uefi
• 45[00:35:41] <jhutchins> I tried to do both on this laptop. When I boot, I gert "Invalid Partition Table" and it hangs until I hit any key.
• 46[00:35:51] <ws2k3> lupulo im reading i need to make a bios boot partition for this?
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• 48[00:36:19] <lupulo> ws2k3, if you find difficult that, you could see another project replaced-url
• 49[00:36:39] <lupulo> ws2k3, uefi is another thing
• 50[00:37:09] <lupulo> ws2k3, see replaced-url
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• 53[00:38:39] <lupulo> ws2k3, replaced-url
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• 55[00:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1486
• 56[00:39:12] <lupulo> ws2k3, if you install debian in your filesystem without grub and install that inside a pendrive you could boot from debian
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• 59[00:39:35] <lupulo> efi doesn't hang out
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• 66[00:42:29] <hk238> hello, any advice on how to install torbrowser on debian? The instructions on debianwiki don't seem to be working?
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• 71[00:44:01] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Yes.
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• 73[00:44:27] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> 'sudo apt install torbrowser-launcher', then run torbrowser-launcher
• 74[00:44:36] <annadane> it's in backports
• 75[00:44:40] <annadane> ,v torbrowser-launcher
• 76[00:44:41] <judd> Package: torbrowser-launcher on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 0.1.9-1+deb8u3; stretch-backports-sloppy/contrib: 0.3.2-7~bpo9+1; buster-backports/contrib: 0.3.2-7~bpo10+1; bullseye/contrib: 0.3.2-7; sid/contrib: 0.3.2-7
• 77[00:44:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, worth saying it's in backports, yes
• 78[00:44:48] <annadane> !debian backports
• 79[00:44:48] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
• 80[00:44:57] <annadane> you also need to add contrib to your sources.list
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• 85[00:50:30] <hk238> I followed the instructions accordingly on the wiki but it didn't work
• 86[00:50:41] <hk238> but then I downloaded it from the tor website and it seems to work
• 87[00:51:10] <hk238> Is there a DNS service useable by the browser to look up the IP of a website?
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• 90[00:52:38] <ws2k3> is it possible with parted to use just commands in the cli to do the stuff you want instead of using the parted menu?
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• 99[01:01:05] <icomputo> debian is missing something like yast
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• 102[01:03:17] <lupulo> icomputo, uk is missing something like SUSE :'(
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• 106[01:05:21] <trek00> icomputo: try synaptic
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• 110[01:07:30] <BazookaTooth> ws2k3: see the man page
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• 114[01:12:11] <Akuw> why i cont find fsu.edu in replaced-url
• 115[01:12:12] <Akuw> ?
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• 119[01:16:09] <trek00> Akuw: because .edu is not supported on this website, try with a more generic website or with dig kdig nslookup command line tools
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• 121[01:17:37] <LtL> Akuw: fsu.edu has address 146.201.111.62
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• 128[01:26:58] <InvisibleRasta> guys, kodi has to be installed from the jessie-backports repo? i am on buster
• 129[01:27:35] <dvs> ,v kodi
• 130[01:27:36] <judd> Package: kodi on amd64 -- stretch: 2:17.1+dfsg1-3; buster: 2:17.6+dfsg1-4+b1; bullseye: 2:18.6+dfsg1-1; sid: 2:18.6+dfsg1-2; stretch-multimedia: 5:17.6-dmo1+deb9u3; buster-multimedia: 5:18.6-dmo0+deb10u1; bullseye-multimedia: 5:18.6-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 5:18.6-dmo2
• 131[01:28:00] <InvisibleRasta> does this package come with the option to launch it as if it was a desktop environment?
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• 136[01:33:56] <wikan> hello, I don't want to invent already invented thing
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• 138[01:34:51] <wikan> never mind :|
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• 140[01:35:04] <wikan> dunno how to explain huh
• 141[01:36:18] <wikan> do you know readable engine I could use to build my own language on it?
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• 144[01:37:52] <wikan> i need to code small "language" tool to compile documents into something similar to wiki/book stuff
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• 148[01:44:03] <dashs> mythtv-users
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• 156[01:53:24] <Eduard_Munteanu> wikan, what language? There are many markup languages, do you want one that already exists?
• 157[01:54:25] <wikan> well I wanna to write text, a lot of text
• 158[01:54:27] <wikan> there are rules
• 159[01:54:50] <wikan> so I "invented" language much readable than LaTeX and HTML
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• 162[01:55:16] <wikan> and I can define "nodes". Like "x" node can be inside "y"
• 163[01:55:43] <wikan> it looks like ":desc Some description :title some title :section some section
• 164[01:56:17] <wikan> and my scripts builds HTML documents
• 165[01:56:44] <Eduard_Munteanu> Ok.
• 166[01:56:44] <wikan> proof of concept told me it works and is good
• 167[01:56:46] <trek00> wikan: you should write a parser too, may be you can use instead something like replaced-url
• 168[01:56:50] <wikan> but now I wanna do it well
• 169[01:57:32] <wikan> yea maybe
• 170[01:57:53] <Eduard_Munteanu> wikan, consider a static site generator like Jekyll. You give it markup and some templates and you get HTML back.
• 171[01:58:58] <wikan> but I look for something "normal" :)
• 172[01:59:18] <wikan> you know... C/C++, something compiled
• 173[01:59:31] <wikan> I am sick of ruby, python, nodejs stuff
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• 175[02:00:07] <wikan> but thanks ;) i will check it anyway
• 176[02:00:31] <Eduard_Munteanu> wikan, well, you can write a parser in C. There are lexer generators and parser generators if you have a grammar.
• 177[02:00:45] <Eduard_Munteanu> See bison/yacc.
• 178[02:00:51] <wikan> I have very good gramar
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• 184[02:02:20] <wikan> yea I will try it again, but I think it is much easer to write it from scratch because I completely don't understand bison and yacc :)
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• 186[02:03:56] <trek00> wikan: bison and lex are complex because writing a parser is really complex
• 187[02:04:02] <Eduard_Munteanu> wikan, I'd advise against hand-rolling a parser in C. It's not very useful, it's very error-prone and you should probably learn a bit about grammars.
• 188[02:04:43] <annadane> and not kelsey grammer
• 189[02:04:44] <Eduard_Munteanu> *can be very error-prone
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• 191[02:05:49] <wikan> I know and this is why I look around
• 192[02:06:09] <trek00> wikan: the .rst format is widely used, there are many tools to convert it to html, may be it can fits your needs
• 193[02:06:30] <wikan> I did proof-of-concept in PHP because it is much easer and it has many bugs impossible to fix
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• 196[02:07:07] <wikan> it is not about convert - it is about keeping rules
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• 199[02:09:17] <wikan> ok, let me change topic
• 200[02:09:23] <phogg> wikan: tried raku and its grammars? Or try Racket, a platform for making languages.
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• 202[02:10:46] <phogg> even in PHP there are parser generator libs you can grab to do some of the work for you
• 203[02:11:19] <wikan> I know, but it must be compiled
• 204[02:11:25] <wikan> I don't write scripts
• 205[02:11:26] <phogg> that's not how it works
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• 207[02:12:06] <wikan> it isn't logical if you wanna "compile" language X but you need compiler for language "Y"
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• 209[02:12:20] <Eduard_Munteanu> Golang? Java? Haskell?
• 210[02:12:54] <phogg> wikan: you need a parser one way or another. Parser generators make it easier to build them (you write less code)
• 211[02:12:58] <phogg> you never write zero code
• 212[02:13:07] <Eduard_Munteanu> If this is part of a build system I kinda understand minimizing external deps.
• 213[02:13:30] <wikan> kinda
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• 215[02:13:44] <phogg> maybe if you explained more about where you are and what your goal is
• 216[02:13:47] <wikan> I know C, so I choosed C ;)
• 217[02:13:47] <JordiGH> Getting debug symbols for a library isn't automatic, is it?
• 218[02:13:55] <JordiGH> Not every library has debug symbols?
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• 220[02:14:27] <wikan> never mind :)
• 221[02:15:03] <phogg> wikan: writing parsers by hand is a miserable kind of experience. What you want is to define the syntax in some syntax definition language and then generate the parser. That's what parser generators are for.
• 222[02:15:10] <wikan> I can use PHP yet
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• 224[02:15:18] <JordiGH> If it's not here, I don't have debug symbols? replaced-url
• 225[02:15:22] <wikan> I am far from final project so ... :)
• 226[02:15:31] <phogg> wikan: PHP is worse than C for this. Even then I'd use a parser generator.
• 227[02:15:50] <wikan> PHP for "me" when I work on this project
• 228[02:16:04] <wikan> when I finish, I will use C
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• 232[02:17:10] <wikan> I am working on my second project
• 233[02:17:24] <wikan> and I would love to ask you for your opinion
• 234[02:17:26] <Eduard_Munteanu> JordiGH, I think there are helpers to package up the debugging info, but you still need to create proper entries in the source package control file and some rules.
• 235[02:17:52] <JordiGH> So I'd have to patch and rebuild, eh?
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• 237[02:18:01] <wikan> because I use i3 window manager and I got idea to learn and make my own
• 238[02:18:20] <Eduard_Munteanu> JordiGH, yeah, I think so
• 239[02:18:24] <wikan> can I share my idea?
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• 241[02:18:49] <JordiGH> I just wanna know why Firefox is crashing, man: replaced-url
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• 244[02:20:20] <phogg> wikan: I don't mind, but this is maybe not the best channel for it.
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• 246[02:20:58] <Eduard_Munteanu> JordiGH, I just found this: replaced-url
• 247[02:21:16] <wikan> just wonder what ppl think about "original" functionality
• 248[02:22:27] <Eduard_Munteanu> JordiGH, found it referenced here: replaced-url
• 249[02:22:41] <Eduard_Munteanu> That might be useful.
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• 251[02:23:28] <phogg> wikan: There are few novel ideas. More usually there are improved/altered variations on something that has existed before. New ideas are always interesting, and sometimes even useful.
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• 253[02:25:03] <JordiGH> Eduard_Munteanu: Thanks.
• 254[02:25:07] <wikan> mockup -> replaced-url
• 255[02:25:41] <JordiGH> But bumping debhelper will probably break other things.
• 256[02:26:47] <wikan> Desktop as Webkit Webview easy to modify and script for anybody. Desktops as activities with multiple "desktops"
• 257[02:27:14] <Eduard_Munteanu> JordiGH, I don't think you need to do that for the binary packages, only if you want to build the sources yourself
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• 259[02:28:23] <JordiGH> Oh, wait, buster-debug?
• 260[02:29:02] <Eduard_Munteanu> buster is stable so I guess so.
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• 262[02:29:59] <Eduard_Munteanu> See the backtraces page for an example for buster.
• 263[02:31:47] <JordiGH> Alrighty thanks!
• 264[02:31:48] <JordiGH> wfm
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• 320[03:28:07] <vvor> Any trackball users? recommendations?
• 321[03:28:23] <vvor> Thinking on the line of: Kensington orbit-trackball-with-scroll-ring
• 322[03:28:31] <phogg> I recommend not using a trackbackll (-;
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• 324[03:29:23] <vvor> Or a moues :)
• 325[03:29:46] <BazookaTooth> vim-key all the things
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• 327[03:30:11] <annadane> trackballs otherwise known as Dust City
• 328[03:30:16] <annadane> use a lazor
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• 330[03:30:45] * annadane puts pinky to mouth
• 331[03:31:02] <phogg> I haven't used a trackball since 1992. I don't remember it being a particularly good experience. Are they really hard to keep clean?
• 332[03:31:07] <annadane> sorry, i'm so not being helpful
• 333[03:31:55] <annadane> i do prefer lasers (yeah they do get dusty and i find mousepads to just be a waste of space) but if the question asker really a trackball i should stop being snarky :P
• 334[03:32:15] <annadane> i accidentally a word
• 335[03:32:19] <annadane> really wants a trackball*
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• 338[03:32:49] <phogg> I think trackballs are more for people who find it difficult to move the elbow that much
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• 341[03:33:45] <dvs> or have little table space
• 342[03:34:00] <BazookaTooth> also people that use tenkey-less keyboards but that's usually all of the above
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• 347[03:37:41] <soft_cement> Hi, I'm looking at a wiki page: replaced-url
• 348[03:37:44] <vvor> annadane: phogg: Thank you trackball users for great recommendations ;-)
• 349[03:37:52] <vvor> ...
• 350[03:38:21] <soft_cement> I'm trying to see if there's an equivalent package with a different name, but I can't find anything
• 351[03:38:37] <phogg> I sometimes wonder if a trackball might be the answer to cat hair on the mousepad
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• 353[03:40:15] <klys> ,v libmysql-java
• 354[03:40:17] <judd> Package: libmysql-java on amd64 -- jessie: 5.1.42-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 5.1.42-1~deb8u1; stretch: 5.1.42-1
• 355[03:41:38] <klys> soft_cement, if you want an older debian there's always debootstrap and chroot
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• 359[03:44:50] <sney> there's probably just a different way to interact with mysql in java now
• 360[03:44:53] <soft_cement> I'm still new to Debian and I can't remember these version names. Debian 10 is what, buster?
• 361[03:45:20] <dvs> yup
• 362[03:47:16] <sney> ,info libmariadb-java
• 363[03:47:18] <judd> Package libmariadb-java (java, optional) in buster/amd64: Java database driver for MariaDB and MySQL. Version: 2.3.0-1; Size: 534.9k; Installed: 605k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 364[03:47:20] <sney> I found it
• 365[03:47:21] <klys> this page might help you: replaced-url
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• 367[03:47:59] <sney> soft_cement: you want libmariadb-java, see judd's message above.
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• 369[03:48:42] <soft_cement> thanks everyone :)
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• 380[03:59:38] <annadane> vvor, so i can at least be a *little* helpful you can maybe ask on ##hardware
• 381[03:59:52] <annadane> unless there's a debian-specific reason you're asking about a trackball in here
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• 410[04:16:23] <soft_cement> is there some way to "reload" resolv.conf without rebooting? would ifdown ens3 && ifup ens3 do it?
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• 414[04:20:49] <FUtz> !jessie-lts
• 415[04:20:49] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until June 30, 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See replaced-url
• 416[04:21:15] <FUtz> !wheezy-lts
• 417[04:21:15] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 7 "Wheezy" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2016-04-25. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures receive additional long term support (LTS) via <wheezy/updates> until 2018-05-31. See replaced-url
• 418[04:22:25] <vvor> annadane: Thanks, hopefully make sure it runs with full features on debian.
• 419[04:23:19] <annadane> trackballs don't have firmware, i don't think most mouses really need firmware to run on debian at all
• 420[04:23:35] <annadane> should be just about fine with anything on debian, unless someone else can say differently
• 421[04:25:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Rather, most USB mouses & trackballs conform to standard USB HID stuff
• 422[04:26:02] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> They may extend them with non-standard stuff for special features, but whatever.
• 423[04:26:55] <sney> there was some weird stuff back in the day with ps/2 standards but none of that needed firmware either, just X config finagling
• 424[04:26:56] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Drawing tablets are an example where you might see some missing features if you don't have drivers for them.
• 425[04:27:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Mind I think for tablets it only applies to those with integrated display
• 426[04:27:50] <vvor> annadane: Not sure if all multiple keybinding and rotations swivel and whatnot can be set up without software/drivers in those fancy modules.
• 427[04:28:30] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> One can probably manually map them by listening with xev & adding configs to their WM config. At least that's how one deals with it on i3wm
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• 431[04:30:36] <vvor> Yep, just hoped for conformation on a specific module from someone who might have done it.
• 432[04:31:54] <vvor> OR Whois the one who dealt with it on i3wm or dwm for that mater.
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• 434[04:32:06] <vvor> :)
• 435[04:32:14] <annadane> again though i'm sorry for brushing off your question initially
• 436[04:32:17] <annadane> that was very rude
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• 438[04:32:58] <vvor> All is well... :) :)
• 439[04:33:33] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> vvor: Oh, just the scrol ring + two buttons?
• 440[04:33:54] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> vvor: Yeah, it'll work fine. But it'll middle-button click.
• 441[04:34:00] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> *lack
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• 444[04:34:13] <trek00> soft_cement: when you modify resolv.conf it should be ready just after saving the file, but may be you need to restart some application
• 445[04:34:20] <soft_cement> trek00: ok, thanks
• 446[04:34:49] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Say... how's the least troublesome manner one would artifically inject click events by some arbitrary scripted way?
• 447[04:34:56] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> e.g.: a mapped keyboard key
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• 450[04:37:17] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, xinput mapping. Hm. Slightly more bothersome than hoped.
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• 454[04:46:23] <soft_cement> ,v guacd
• 455[04:46:24] <judd> Package: guacd on amd64 -- jessie: 0.8.3-1+b2; sid: 0.9.9-2; stretch: 0.9.9-2
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• 462[05:02:14] <FUtz> how can i install gcc in my Debian 7.6 wheezy ?
• 463[05:02:28] <His_Dudeness__> lol
• 464[05:03:14] <His_Dudeness__> sudo apt install gcc ?
• 465[05:03:18] <FUtz> i need keep this system
• 466[05:03:52] <FUtz> no have suport
• 467[05:04:03] <FUtz> it's an old version
• 468[05:04:19] <FUtz> source.list dont work
• 469[05:04:22] <His_Dudeness__> got it ... sorry ... my fault
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• 471[05:05:00] <sney> !wheezy sources.list
• 472[05:05:00] <dpkg> Debian 7 "wheezy" is archived. A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for wheezy has one line: «deb replaced-url
• 473[05:05:20] <sney> FUtz: ^ adjust your sources.list accordingly and you'll get wheezy's gcc
• 474[05:05:56] <FUtz> sney i tried do it but.. look
• 475[05:06:04] <FUtz> wait
• 476[05:07:28] <FUtz> # apt-get update
• 477[05:07:28] <FUtz> 0% [Conectando a archive.debian.org]
• 478[05:07:32] <FUtz> after a long time
• 479[05:07:34] <FUtz> Err replaced-url
• 480[05:07:51] <FUtz> W: Failed to fetch replaced-url
• 481[05:08:34] <FUtz> i think this problem is a firewall
• 482[05:08:49] <sney> archive.d.o is definitely up, I'm looking right at it. if you have problems with name resolution you could add a static entry to /etc/hosts for archive
• 483[05:08:50] <FUtz> do you think so too?
• 484[05:09:08] <sney> usually firewalls don't selectively break name resolution
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• 486[05:09:44] <sney> what does that system have in /etc/resolv.conf? and can it ping any other domains?
• 487[05:09:57] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> They might just be timing out.
• 488[05:10:25] <sney> also a possibility
• 489[05:10:37] <sney> well, timing out reaching dns
• 490[05:10:57] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> If they're using the ISP's default and its not well maintained, it's possible.
• 491[05:11:06] <FUtz> sney i put 130.89.148.13 klecker-archive.debian.org debian in /etc/hosts ?
• 492[05:11:08] <sney> hence asking about resolv.conf
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• 495[05:11:53] <sney> well, without the klecker- part
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• 497[05:12:10] <karlpinc> start with "getent hosts archive.debian.org", just be sure. Then move on to checking with dig, looking at resolv.conf, etc.
• 498[05:12:16] <FUtz> sney in my resolve.conf > domain ccae.local search ccae.local nameserver 10.10.102.2
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• 500[05:13:02] <sney> add a nameserver entry for 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8, some public dns that you know that machine can reach
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• 504[05:14:23] <FUtz> wow
• 505[05:14:34] <FUtz> sney its work
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• 507[05:14:51] <sney> yep
• 508[05:15:00] <FUtz> Downloaded 12.8 MB in 11s (1,135 kB / s)
• 509[05:15:01] <FUtz> Reading package lists ... Done
• 510[05:15:05] <FUtz> :)
• 511[05:15:06] <Aurora-Sensei> 10.10.102.2 ; Are they inside some crappy NAT? The "unmaintained DNS" is getting more plausible.
• 512[05:15:20] <sney> the 'search somedomain.local' implies a private network as well
• 513[05:15:23] <Aurora-Sensei> FUtz: I second the suggestion for adding nameserver entries for 1.1.1.1 & 8.8.8.8
• 514[05:15:38] <sney> is there a lag in here? it already happened
• 515[05:15:59] <Aurora-Sensei> sney: Aye, I said I second your suggestion.
• 516[05:16:04] <sney> FUtz: in the future you don't need to paste everything to the channel, and any pastes longer than 2 lines should go to replaced-url
• 517[05:16:13] <FUtz> ok sorry
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• 519[05:16:32] <FUtz> thanks bra
• 520[05:16:34] <FUtz> :]
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• 522[05:16:54] <sney> np
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• 570[06:30:35] <quantum> Anyone see how to combine these into one command?
• 571[06:30:49] <quantum> replaced-url
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• 580[06:46:32] <nkuttler> quantum: a script? a shell alias?
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• 582[06:47:07] <quantum> It's part of a script, but I got it now.
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• 610[07:37:39] <Wulf> Hello! I'm looking for a minimal monitoring solution, e.g. a cron job that runs once/day and checks basic things like disk space, sending me an email if anything is off.
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• 613[07:41:07] <derpadmin> Wulf : I wrote mine
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• 615[07:41:22] <derpadmin> I basically re-wrote nagios :)
• 616[07:41:28] <derpadmin> cgi-bash
• 617[07:42:02] <derpadmin> and some snmp
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• 619[07:43:03] <Wulf> derpadmin: I could write my own, but was looking for existing options first.
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• 621[07:43:44] <derpadmin> nagios is neat and easy
• 622[07:43:51] <Wulf> too big.
• 623[07:49:16] <vvor> Wulf: conky, statsd, collectd, glances...
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• 679[09:30:39] <KMPLSV> hola. anyone around?
• 680[09:30:55] <Wulf> KMPLSV: Hello. I'm not here.
• 681[09:31:40] * xnaas is also not here.
• 682[09:31:53] * xnaas shouldn't be, anyway, since it's 02:30 😪
• 683[09:32:38] <Wulf> Are there any estimates when wireguard will be available for buster without dkms?
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• 688[09:42:08] <ratrace> Wulf: is it in 5.4 kernel? If yes, then probably with Bullseye. Is it not? Then probably with next LTS release of the kernel, which means bullseye+1 . Or via backports, when the next LTS kernel becomes available
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• 699[09:53:27] <Wulf> ratrace: in unstable it's in the 5.5 kernel.
• 700[09:56:07] <Wulf> ratrace: I'm hoping for buster-backports
• 701[09:58:46] <Wulf> looks like LTS kernels are released about once per year about November.
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• 711[10:18:51] <omer681> So I'm trying to cross compile to arm, but it seems like the gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi package doesn't include a big endian libgcc
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• 713[10:19:17] <omer681> is there a package that does?
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• 779[12:01:13] <pingouin> hello #debian !
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• 793[12:17:38] <jim> pingouin, HI
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• 795[12:17:53] <jim> er hi
• 796[12:19:26] <pingouin> :)
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• 801[12:28:52] <KMPLSV> lookin' to toss up a digital ocean droplet just to have a basic znc server and irc to start with. any reason i should stick with debian 9 instead of going with 10?
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• 805[12:32:04] <kale> hi, i am having trouble with parted, as it reports wrong sizes. if i use fdisk or cfdisk, i get the correct size=688GB, but parted says it is 739GB. when resizing with parted it also make the wrong size. setting to 670G makes ie 624G. what do i do here?
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• 809[12:47:41] <kale> ahh, setting the unit to MiB gives a more readable result
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• 817[12:56:32] <ws2k3> i wish to install debian on a gpt disk using grub. do i need to make a partition for grub? or how is that supposed to work?
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• 820[13:00:03] <kale> ws2k3: usually grub stage 1.5 has drivers to read a partition in the end of the disk, so you should be able to install in any partition. i usually use a /boot partition myself, that for historical reasons (when we had lilo) and to be able to encrypt everything else than /boot
• 821[13:01:29] <tomreyn> ws2k3: depending on how you'll boot you'll either need a bios-grub partition or an efi system partition to place grub on.
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• 824[13:04:17] <kale> what is a bios-grub partition?
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• 827[13:05:49] <tomreyn> replaced-url
• 828[13:07:22] <kale> ok, so its stage 1.5
• 829[13:09:28] <tomreyn> "The image files (see Images) that make up GRUB have been reorganised; Stage 1, Stage 1.5, and Stage 2 are no more." replaced-url
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• 831[13:11:25] <kale> interesting, must have been many years since i installed my system :-)
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• 844[13:30:47] <pingouin> ws2k3: i think you have to have a small partition with a flag "bios_grub" in fat32
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• 848[13:31:41] <pingouin> you can create it and "flag" it with some tools, but i only know gparted on a live usb key (always good to have one ready)
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• 852[13:34:54] <pingouin> ws2k3: for instance : fdisk -l /dev/sde1 2048 38911 36864 18M BIOS boot
• 853[13:36:11] <pingouin> you can see the partition /dev/sde1 is a small one, "flaged" bios_boot
• 854[13:36:23] <pingouin> on a GTP formated SSD
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• 857[13:36:42] <pingouin> /s/GTP/GPT
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• 859[13:37:53] <ws2k3> pingouin so 18 mb is sufficient?
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• 861[13:38:24] <pingouin> ws2k3: i think i had made it 20MO maybe
• 862[13:38:30] <ws2k3> pingouin cause here i see someone making one of 500 mb replaced-url
• 863[13:39:43] <pingouin> not a problem, 2GB if you want...depend the side of your HD and what real estate you want to keep for your data, or for some only boot system things...
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• 865[13:40:23] <ws2k3> pingouin i only want it for grub nothing else
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• 867[13:40:50] <tomreyn> 2 MB should suffice for bios_grub
• 868[13:40:53] <pingouin> i think it's a system thing/rule for GPT you have to have this partition and flaged "bios_boot" after that, i do not think its used much
• 869[13:41:06] <ws2k3> pingou if i already have another partition that is 6 gb where i installed my OS can i not use that to install grub?
• 870[13:41:19] <ws2k3> so mark my exsisting 6 gb partition as the bios_boot
• 871[13:41:26] <ws2k3> there my whole / will live
• 872[13:41:43] <pingouin> what?!
• 873[13:41:44] <pingouin> :)
• 874[13:41:56] <pingouin> 6GB for a flag boot...
• 875[13:42:41] <ws2k3> pingouin no you misunderstand ^^ i alreayd haartition where my OS is installed on. can i not enable the bios_boot flag there? and install grub there? or does it need to be a seperate partition
• 876[13:43:07] <pingouin> as tomreyn just said : 2 MB seems to be a lot...i did a 20MB and never had troubles so few MO waisted :)
• 877[13:43:21] <tomreyn> needs to be a separate partition
• 878[13:43:34] <pingouin> yep tomreyn is fast !
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• 880[13:44:22] <abrotman> 2MB is a lot?
• 881[13:44:45] <pingouin> relatif
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• 883[13:45:35] <pingouin> let's say enought for this bios_boot flaged partition for a GPT system ? better ?
• 884[13:46:05] <pingouin> aaahh it was supposed to make life easier from MBR.... :/
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• 887[13:47:04] <pingouin> ws2k3: my advice - very bad one - i always format / partition on a clean drive.
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• 889[13:47:50] <pingouin> so (bad advice) backup whatever you have on this HD, get gparted, choose GPT, make the partition you'll need to install debian, and start the installation
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• 894[13:48:46] <ws2k3> pingouin yes this is a new setup. so thats why im asking for some advice
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• 897[13:52:49] <pingouin> ws2k3: replaced-url
• 898[13:53:12] <pingouin> a gpt with bios_grub flag
• 899[13:53:16] <ws2k3> thx pingouin
• 900[13:53:51] <pingouin> i put it at the begining, on your replaced-url
• 901[13:54:21] <pingouin> and i read : This partition can be in any position order but has to be on the first 2 TiB of the disk. This partition needs to be created before GRUB installation.
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• 905[13:57:43] <pingouin> ws2k3: oh forgot : the bios_boot partition need to be "turned on" as mention in the link you've provided
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• 907[13:57:58] <pingouin> you'll find the option if you use gparted.
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• 910[13:59:46] <ksk> hola. I moved my computer from one place to another, and now F1-10 are not working anmore :o
• 911[13:59:49] <ksk> xev tells me "state 0x0, keycode 121 (keysym 0x1008ff12, XF86AudioMute)" when I press F1 - why is that?
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• 913[14:00:36] <tomreyn> because you enabled the lock key which switches the function (F) keys' primary function to be media keys
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• 915[14:00:51] <ksk> looking at the key that makes perfectly sense O_o
• 916[14:00:56] * ksk gets more coffee.
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• 918[14:01:16] <ksk> ah, I can lock in FN by pressing control+FN.
• 919[14:01:20] <ksk> many thanks!
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• 921[14:01:30] <tomreyn> you're welcome.
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• 945[14:20:36] <ice9> is upgrading Debian to higher version a safe procedure? and in case of failure, downgrade is possible?
• 946[14:21:06] <joepublic> downgrade has been done successfully, but is not a supported procedure.
• 947[14:21:07] <klys> you should back up your system, because downgrade is not likely possible, no.
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• 949[14:22:10] <pingouin> ice9: it's safe to upgrade if your read the release notes. and do not come from patato to buster.
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• 951[14:23:58] <GNU\colossus> (woody to buster works fine)
• 952[14:24:42] <klys> it might if you do it a suite at a time, but you might have to reformat your ext2 partition on the way from etch to lenny.
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• 954[14:28:04] <ice9> pingouin, what about downgrade?
• 955[14:28:23] <cyveris> ice9: 08:21 <joepublic> downgrade has been done successfully, but is not a supported procedure.
• 956[14:28:42] <ice9> ah thanks
• 957[14:29:54] <klys> particularly, the apt tools don't allow for downgrades, and so you would be doing it manually somehow.
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• 959[14:30:54] <joepublic> the apt tools do the downgrade based on arcane repository preference settings, actually
• 960[14:33:01] <klys> and if you can find such settings documented, you likely have to use a bunch of them, or at least more than one.
• 961[14:33:02] <pingouin> ice9: never did that...sorry
• 962[14:33:40] <pingouin> ice9: but if you have in mind already to downgrade...i would not upgrade at all.
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• 964[14:34:48] <jelly> ice9, there's no downgrade that works 100%, make a backup of the whole system or snapshot, and restore if things break
• 965[14:35:29] <tds> if you think it's going to be a painful upgrade, may also be worthwhile cloning the system and testing upgrading there
• 966[14:35:29] * pingouin think ice 9 is a great joe satriani's tune
• 967[14:38:04] <jelly> ice9, it's safer to do a release upgrade of Debian than most other distros, provided you follow the procedure. Each release version has Release Notes that document how to do the upgrade.
• 968[14:38:09] <jelly> for example,
• 969[14:38:14] <jelly> dpkg: stretch->buster
• 970[14:38:14] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
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• 975[14:45:10] <ice9> jelly, safer than Ubuntu?
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• 991[15:01:46] <NetTerminalGene> can i install ubuntu20.04 theme to debian 10?
• 992[15:01:56] <NetTerminalGene> how can i do that?
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• 1003[15:07:24] <velix> When joining a chroot, can it be /etc/defaults/ is ignored?
• 1004[15:07:45] <velix> The last sentence was missing a "that".
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• 1007[15:09:50] <velix> No matter what I do, my keyboard settings get ignored when joining a chroot.
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• 1010[15:11:56] <velix> maybe I should better as in #linux
• 1011[15:12:02] <velix> It's no generic Debian problem
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• 1103[16:41:17] <Ede|Popede> NetTerminalGene: with theme you mean a theme for your desktop?
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• 1105[16:42:21] <n-iCe> can I usee a microsd as a ssd hard drive?
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• 1111[16:50:53] <Kyros> n-iCe: it depends on the bios. a lot of them wont boot from it
• 1112[16:51:06] <NetTerminalGene> Ede|Popede, yes gnome
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• 1114[16:52:20] <SwedeMike> n-iCe: yes, but just beware that lots of microsd cards were not designed to be written a lot to, and they will break if you put a write-intensive load on them
• 1115[16:53:53] <n-iCe> ok, gonna use my hdd then.
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• 1117[16:54:11] <n-iCe> debian is in the usb, gonna reboot, thank you brb
• 1118[16:54:13] <Ede|Popede> NetTerminalGene: i touch aptland only with apt toos, and i don't like third party packages to clutter it. may break things since there MAY be name clashes, even if only with backported packages. maybe not with themes, since that's just a bunch of files which go into their own directory. i still prefer to just download and unpack them into /usr/local or $HOME, all the extras from .deb files are probably not needed here.
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• 1123[16:55:29] <NetTerminalGene> Ede|Popede, i want gtk and gnome shell theme from ubuntu
• 1124[16:55:37] <NetTerminalGene> 20.04
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• 1126[16:56:36] <Ede|Popede> NetTerminalGene: my approach would be to download and unpack and copy just the subtree needed into place (remember, outside of aptland)
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• 1129[16:57:24] <Ede|Popede> NetTerminalGene: in the case of a desktop theme maybe even into .themes, where i can play with it
• 1130[16:57:27] <NetTerminalGene> Ede|Popede, ubuntu 20.04 uses gnome 3.36 or something. but buster uses 3.30
• 1131[16:58:21] <Ede|Popede> NetTerminalGene, see if it works. such small differences shouldn't be relevant for just a theme. you still may read the release infos.
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• 1133[16:59:14] <Ede|Popede> if it doesn't work, just select another theme and delete the folder if you can't fix it or don't want to.
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• 1145[17:17:08] <soft_concrete> Hi, is anyone here familiar with the virsh tools for managing VMs? I deleted a VM to start from scratch and re-create it, but I forgot to run "virt destroy VM_NAME" before I ran "virt undefine VM_NAME" and now when I try to run the same command I ran before to (re) create the VM, I get this error: ERROR Could not determine original disk information: Storage volume not found: no storage vol with matching path
• 1146[17:17:40] <soft_concrete> And please let me know if there's a better place to ask this
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• 1148[17:18:40] <soft_concrete> If I try to use a different name for the diskfile, I get the same error.
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• 1151[17:20:10] <tds> how are you creating the vm?
• 1152[17:21:07] <soft_concrete> I make it by cloning a base install of Debian 10, something like this: virt-clone -o Debian10-base -n server_guacamole -f /dev/vg1/server_guacamole
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• 1157[17:22:45] <soft_concrete> This is the same command that I ran before to create it, with no issues
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• 1159[17:23:07] <tds> does that lv already exist?
• 1160[17:23:14] <soft_concrete> No, it doesn't
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• 1163[17:24:06] <soft_concrete> I'm thinking the error might have to do with some lingering metadata from the old VM that's still hanging around somewhere...
• 1164[17:24:32] <soft_concrete> because apparently, the correct way to delete a VM is "virsh destroy VM_NAME && virsh undefine VM_NAME" and I forgot about the "destroy" part
• 1165[17:24:39] <tds> destroy should just shut the vm down
• 1166[17:24:44] <soft_concrete> oh okay.
• 1167[17:25:11] <soft_concrete> maybe I should try just calling the new one server_guac, instead of server_guacamole - give it a different name, and see what happens?
• 1168[17:25:19] <tds> ah! is the old vm still running?
• 1169[17:25:24] <soft_concrete> although I'd like to keep the guacamole name, it's more descriptive
• 1170[17:25:30] <soft_concrete> No, I manually shut it down before I undefined it.
• 1171[17:25:39] <soft_concrete> The only thing I can think of now, is to reboot the host...
• 1172[17:25:46] <tds> oh, that should be identical to doing it manually then
• 1173[17:25:51] <tds> have you fiddled with LVM by hand at all?
• 1174[17:26:25] <soft_concrete> No I haven't. I could take a look in there, but I wouldn't be comfortable making any changes - I'd leave that to my colleague
• 1175[17:27:03] <tds> may be worth checking the details of the template
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• 1177[17:27:21] <tds> since that error implies the error is with working out where the template is, rather than the new vm
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• 1179[17:27:55] <soft_concrete> ok, how do I do that, or what do I look up to figure out how to do it?
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• 1181[17:28:11] <tds> `virsh dumpxml Debian10-base` should print out all the details
• 1182[17:28:34] <soft_concrete> by template, you mean the vm we're using as a template, not some LVM term?
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• 1184[17:28:40] <tds> yes, sorry
• 1185[17:28:47] <soft_concrete> oh okay, np
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• 1188[17:31:58] <soft_concrete> the template VM can start no problem, so I think it knows where its diskfile is...
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• 1192[17:33:41] <soft_concrete> tds: is it possible that the "rm -f /dev/vg1/server_guacamole" caused some issue with lvm?
• 1193[17:34:07] <tds> yes
• 1194[17:34:22] <tds> you'd want to properly remove the LV so the space isn't allocated anymore, rather than just deleting the bit exposed in /dev
• 1195[17:34:32] <soft_concrete> is it too late to try and do that?
• 1196[17:34:47] <soft_concrete> what command *should* I have run?
• 1197[17:35:35] <soft_concrete> I know it's lvcreate to make a new logical volume
• 1198[17:35:56] <tds> what does lvs say?
• 1199[17:36:31] <soft_concrete> According to lvs, the old server_guacamole volume is still allocated
• 1200[17:36:56] <tds> you'd want to lvremove it then
• 1201[17:37:04] <soft_concrete> just did that, it seemed to work
• 1202[17:37:34] <soft_concrete> I completely forgot about lvcreate when I was trying to delete the disk file...
• 1203[17:38:22] <soft_concrete> everything seems to be working like it should again. thank you :)
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• 1208[17:41:20] <n-iCe> Done, I'm on Debian!
• 1209[17:41:36] <n-iCe> question, can't find/enable click on touch in my laptop, any idea why?
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• 1218[17:49:01] <karlpinc> n-iCe: Did you use the unoffical installer with non-free firmware included? If not, could be a firmware issue. Check dmesg output and the kernel logs to see if the device is recognized.
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• 1223[17:51:50] <ice9> I have an app with docker-compose.yml; how do I run it for the first time?
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• 1241[18:06:23] <er5e> I have added rtl_
• 1242[18:07:49] <er5e> wi have added rtl_wifi to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules but upon boot i revieve "failed to load rtlwifi/rtl18821ae"
• 1243[18:07:57] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip)
• 1244[18:08:06] <er5e> i also attempted force_load in a custom hook
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• 1249[18:14:55] <lwp> er5e, did you run update-initramfs
• 1250[18:15:03] *** Quits: obengdako (~obengdako@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1251[18:15:03] <er5e> of course
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• 1263[18:25:02] <ratrace> er5e: is that module or firmware? do the files appear in the output of lsinitramfs /boot/initrd.img.... ?
• 1264[18:25:17] <er5e> This was my apology, i was using rtl
• 1265[18:25:23] <er5e> rtl_wifi and not rtlwifi
• 1266[18:26:11] <ratrace> er5e: what are you even trying to do, I tried to scroll back but don't see the context or history of the issue...
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• 1269[18:28:08] <Laserburn> hey guys, I'm setting up Splunk and setting directories for it to read log files out of. My syslog-ng directory, where all the remote syslog files are, is set with group 'adm' having read access, recursively. My Splunk user, however, can't read the directory at all. I have su'ed as the splunk user and made sure groups returns that it's part of the 'adm' group, rebooted the server, and still can't
• 1270[18:28:14] <Laserburn> read the directory. Any idea what to check next?
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• 1273[18:28:40] <Laserburn> $ cd HOSTS
• 1274[18:28:40] <Laserburn> sh: 8: cd: can't cd to HOSTS
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• 1276[18:29:22] <er5e> however now after module load ip a does not show wireless interface, only loopback. I am unable to operate on interface per
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• 1278[18:30:16] <ratrace> Laserburn: so running `id <splunk user>` shows "adm" in groups?
• 1279[18:30:18] <er5e> ratrace load wireless modules into initramfs and connect to wireless for use with
• 1280[18:30:42] <ratrace> er5e: why in initramfs? do you need network there?
• 1281[18:30:46] <Laserburn> @ratrace yeah: uid=1001(splunk) gid=1001(splunk) groups=1001(splunk),4(adm)
• 1282[18:30:58] <er5e> I do that is why i am configuring network there.
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• 1284[18:31:11] <ratrace> Laserburn: and all path elements are readable to adm? parent dir(s) too? read+exec?
• 1285[18:31:35] <Laserburn> drwxr--r-- 26 root adm 4096 Mar 22 15:18 HOSTS
• 1286[18:31:39] <Laserburn> not exec
• 1287[18:31:45] <ratrace> you need exec for dirs
• 1288[18:31:49] <Laserburn> do ya? TIL
• 1289[18:31:50] <ratrace> (to descend into them)
• 1290[18:31:54] <Laserburn> thanks
• 1291[18:32:22] <ratrace> Laserburn: basically you need 750 or less strict, on all dirs
• 1292[18:33:00] <Laserburn> @ratrace thank you sir, I'll verify working now
• 1293[18:33:06] <ratrace> !next
• 1294[18:33:06] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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• 1297[18:35:26] <lwp> er5e: in your first message you wrote "failed to load rtlwifi/rtl18821ae" ... is that a typo ? is it possibly really rtl8821ae ?
• 1298[18:37:07] <er5e> @lwp the mistake was my own, im assume to use rtl_wifi instead of rtlwifi the issue is now resolved, however when I execure ip a it only show loop interface cannot find wireless device
• 1299[18:38:26] <ratrace> er5e: you need firmware
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• 1301[18:38:48] <ratrace> you also don't need to load anything into initramfs, unless you want networking before root mounts
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• 1303[18:39:47] <ratrace> er5e: if lwp is correct about you making a typo, and thats rtl8821ae , then you need the "firmware-realtek" package, from non-free I think
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• 1305[18:40:44] <er5e> for device RTL8821AE im assume rtlwifi is proper firmware/driver per replaced-url
• 1306[18:41:21] <er5e> so module is already loaded, as prior stated
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• 1308[18:41:27] <ratrace> er5e: you are not listening
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• 1310[18:41:55] <er5e> the module loads correctly, as it is already installed.
• 1311[18:42:13] <ratrace> er5e: but that "failed to load" message is about firmware, not kernel modules
• 1312[18:42:27] <er5e> no need simply use replaced-url
• 1313[18:42:33] <ratrace> and it's rtl8821ae not rtl18821ae
• 1314[18:42:48] <er5e> no need simply use replaced-url
• 1315[18:42:52] <ratrace> er5e: no need? so you got the networking working alright?
• 1316[18:42:58] <er5e> 10:37:06@lwp the mistake was my own, im assume to use rtl_wifi instead of rtlwifi the issue is now resolved, however when I execure ip a it only show loop interface cannot find wireless device
• 1317[18:43:15] <er5e> perhaps you need glasses
• 1318[18:43:15] <ratrace> er5e: do you have "firmware-realtek" installed?
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• 1320[18:43:25] <Lope> hey guys, I'm trying to connect x2goclient to an x2goserver. My client can SSH into the server. But x2goclient says my server's fingerprint is unknown and shows a md5 fingerprint hash asking me to confirm it. The problem is that hash DOES NOT belong to my server. My server does not have any SSH host keys with that md5 fingerprint. Does x2goserver setup some different ssh keys somewhere other than /etc/ssh/ ?
• 1321[18:43:27] <er5e> im assume you cannot read or have trouble my english
• 1322[18:43:42] <ratrace> er5e: good luck with that shit attiude.
• 1323[18:43:56] <Lope> hey ratrace :)
• 1324[18:44:01] <ratrace> hey Lope.
• 1325[18:44:48] <er5e> you yourself say you cannot read "er5e: what are you even trying to do, I tried to scroll back but don't see the context or history of the issue..."
• 1326[18:45:01] <er5e> so please excuse your language
• 1327[18:45:28] <ratrace> Lope: shouldn't. there's several host keys by default, you sure that's neither of them?
• 1328[18:45:58] <Lope> ratrace, yes, I've deleted the DSA one. My server only has a RSA and an ED25519 key
• 1329[18:45:59] <ratrace> Lope: there's rsa, ecdsa and ed25519 if I'm not mistaken
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• 1331[18:46:17] <Lope> ah, i meant I deleted ecdsa and disabled it in sshd_config
• 1332[18:46:45] <ratrace> just note that ecdsa (elliptic curve) and dsa aren't the same thing
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• 1335[18:47:14] <Lope> ah yeah, I know, just mixed up one thing I don't trust with another thing that I don't trust.
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• 1337[18:47:32] <ratrace> Lope: when you ssh regularly as that user, does it complain about unknown key? those are stored in ~/.ssh/known_hosts, so it's per (client side) user
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• 1339[18:47:50] <ratrace> Lope: and btw.... xorg over ssh is gonna be very, very, very, very painful.
• 1340[18:47:52] <er5e> @lwp he assume i make trivial mistake fom start becuz im want network in initramfs and unusal circumstance Im try to read document in english and mistake rtl_wifi with rtlwifi and that cause my issue. his attidude course like grains of sand and all i figure was my solution to my problem. Can i correct to assume for my device RTL8821AE load in
• 1341[18:47:52] <er5e> rltwifi sufficient?
• 1342[18:48:08] <Lope> I've tried ssh-ing in from the client as a new user, and check the fingerprint that it asks me about. it's absolutely not the same fingerprint.
• 1343[18:49:15] <Lope> ratrace, on the server, I do this: ssh-keygen -E md5 -lf /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key; ssh-keygen -E md5 -lf /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key
• 1344[18:50:23] <Lope> on the client, from a new user, I check the server's host fingerprint like this also: `ssh -o HostKeyAlgorithms=ssh-rsa -o FingerprintHash=md5 user@server`
• 1345[18:50:49] <ratrace> Lope: well did you try just accepting it and see what happens next?
• 1346[18:50:51] <Lope> and if I don't specify HostKeyAlgorithms=ssh-rsa, it shows me the ed25519 key
• 1347[18:51:03] <Lope> ratrace, well, i don't want to accept an unknown key
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• 1349[18:51:36] <ratrace> that's just the host key. you can remove it from ~/.ssh/known_hosts later if you don't want it
• 1350[18:51:39] <Lope> the only explanation I can come up with is that the x2go server must be using a different ssh host key
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• 1353[18:52:03] <Lope> the issue is I can't find the host fingerprint that the x2go client is asking me about
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• 1355[18:52:11] <ratrace> I don't think x2go is doing anything ssh, and assumes existing OpenSSH server with x11 forwarding
• 1356[18:52:13] <ayekat> Lope: check how the server is invoked (which config it uses, and where it really gets its host key(s))
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• 1358[18:52:33] <Lope> ayekat, okay, I'll re-check sshd_config
• 1359[18:53:05] <ayekat> yeah... and also the command line arguments to sshd itself - i.e. whether it even uses that sshd_config
• 1360[18:53:46] <Lope> ayekat, ratrace: it's right there in my /etc/ssh/sshd_config HostKey /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key and /etc/ssh/ssh_host_ed25519_key
• 1361[18:54:22] <Lope> ayekat, the thing is that the sshd seems to be working as expected when I connect to it using an ssh client.
• 1362[18:54:25] <ratrace> Lope: ayekat is onto something. is x2go launching sshd daemon itself? maybe it has some custom cli optoins in that invocation with indeed custom host keys?
• 1363[18:54:41] <Lope> interesting, it must be using a different ssh host key.
• 1364[18:54:50] <Lope> cos it's not the keys in /etc/ssh/
• 1365[18:54:59] <Lope> I'll look around in the x2go dir.
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• 1367[18:55:20] <ayekat> Lope: I'd just check the arguments to the sshd process for a start
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• 1369[18:55:58] <ratrace> bah, no answer... replaced-url
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• 1371[18:58:06] <ratrace> aaaaah replaced-url
• 1372[18:58:17] <ratrace> "X2go bundling a poor-quality SSH client library" /me facepalms if true
• 1373[18:59:04] <Lope> ratrace, ayekat: it's so bloody weird. there's only one sshd process running on the server. If I stop the 'ssh' service on the server, then try connect the x2goclient it says connection refused.
• 1374[18:59:33] <Lope> if I start the ssh service on the server again, and try connect the x2goclient it asks me if I accept the unknown fingerprint.
• 1375[18:59:34] <ratrace> Lope: apparently x2go client side is implementing a DIY ssh thingy, so it's not server side
• 1376[18:59:43] <ratrace> Lope: just accept it.
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• 1378[18:59:58] <Lope> ratrace, weird. I suppose I should at least make a note of it.
• 1379[19:00:00] <ayekat> so tl;dr is "don't expect security" with x2go
• 1380[19:00:12] <Lope> that's ridiculous.
• 1381[19:00:31] <Lope> I suppose I could port forward my x2go through a proper ssh connection.
• 1382[19:00:37] <ratrace> anyway X11 over ssh is going to be ridiculously bad. high latency and low video quality. you can forget watching vids like youtube
• 1383[19:00:56] <Lope> ratrace, yeah, I don't need to watch video thru it.
• 1384[19:01:05] <Lope> I'm just planning to browse and write code.
• 1385[19:01:16] <Lope> the x2go server is in a vm on the same physical machine that I'm on.
• 1386[19:01:20] <Lope> So I'll see how it goes.
• 1387[19:01:31] <Lope> if that doesn't work well I'll use virt-viewer
• 1388[19:02:16] <Lope> I tried virt-viewer earlier. I couldn't get multiple monitors working and was not able to change the resolution. every time I changed the resolution it killed the kde session. when I logged back in it was still stuck on 1024x768
• 1389[19:02:58] <ratrace> Lope: I didn't try out x2go, but I ran regular xorg over tcp socket. VM and (local)host, so no actual network between them. considering that lo stack behaves differently than non-localhost networking, and even then it was terrible performance. I know x2go will adjust bitrate and all but it's gonna do that noticeably
• 1390[19:03:05] <Lope> even though I added multiple video devices to the VM and xrandr in the vm showed a bunch of "disconnected" video outputs, I wasn't able to activate them with the kde display widget.
• 1391[19:03:39] <ratrace> I ended up punching a netcat hole between them, thus no encryption, it was still terrible. only unix socket worked, but thta was unusable with VMs
• 1392[19:03:57] <Lope> weird
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• 1394[19:04:06] <ratrace> I'm really looking forward to your experience with x2go.
• 1395[19:04:19] <Lope> did you try regular ssh session forwarding?
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• 1397[19:04:52] <ratrace> Lope: yes. even recompiled ssh for no encryption
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• 1399[19:05:33] <Lope> Once I wanted to be able to browse the web on a RbPi. the experience was too shit. so I did ssh session forwarding to the RbPi and it was okayish. Then I just forwarded only the web browser via X forwarding to the RbPi and then the experience was 95% as good as working on the actual PC (over 100mbit lan)
• 1400[19:05:44] <Lope> and a million times better than actually running a browser on the RbPi.
• 1401[19:05:58] <Lope> okay gtg bbl afk suppertime
• 1402[19:06:04] <ratrace> bon apetit
• 1403[19:06:36] <kline> bone apple tea
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• 1430[19:43:19] <Lope> thanks. BTW ratrace ayekat the problem with what you're saying about x2go doing it's own thing with regard to SSH, is that if I stop the SSH server, then the x2goclient's connection gets refused.
• 1431[19:43:42] <Lope> Surely the ssh server has it's keys as defined in sshd_config, end of story?
• 1432[19:44:04] <Lope> So how can x2goserver receive connections through the ssh service, but somehow have a different host key?
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• 1438[19:48:02] <n-iCe> Ok, just installed Debian, but I don't see the bluetooth icon which I use a lot, why? Debian xfce does not come with bluetooth manager?
• 1439[19:48:22] <n-iCe> Don't see any about bluetooth under settings either
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• 1442[19:49:41] <ratrace> Lope: I'd guess the problem is in checksumming the key. Maybe it's doing it partially or wrongly, or somethign else entirely
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• 1446[19:51:13] <ratrace> n-iCe: are "bluetooth" or "bluez" packages installed?
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• 1448[19:52:01] <n-iCe> ratrace: let me check
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• 1450[19:52:36] <n-iCe> ratrace: yes, both
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• 1453[19:56:21] <n-iCe> found this ratrace [ 12.378647] usb 1-5.1: firmware: failed to load ar3k/AthrBT_0x31010000.dfu (-2)
• 1454[19:56:26] <n-iCe> maybe that's the bluetooth?
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• 1456[19:57:23] <n-iCe> installed firmware-atheros
• 1457[19:57:39] <n-iCe> rebooting
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• 1465[20:00:22] <n-iCe> Same ,did not work
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• 1467[20:01:21] <sney> does it still have the "failed to load" firmware message?
• 1468[20:02:12] <n-iCe> no
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• 1496[20:40:07] <Lope> ratrace, you gave me an idea. I decided to change SSH host keys and see if the key it reports would change. It does.
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• 1498[20:43:58] <ratrace> Lope: so, partial or wrong checksumming going on?
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• 1503[20:46:35] <soft_concrete> what's a good public key server that I could find keys from the Apache project on? I tried pgpkeys.mit.edu but it seems to be down right now
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• 1506[20:50:11] <Lope> ayekat, ratrace, x2go is using whichever ssh host key is offered by default by SSH. For example if I have an ed25519 and a RSA key available. ed25519 takes priority, if I swap out the rsa key the key reported by x2goclient doesn't change. but if I swap the ed25519 key, then the reported key changes. If I disable the ed25519 key it reports some checksum for the RSA key, then if I swap the RSA key, the key reported by x2goclient changes.
• 1507[20:50:41] <Lope> so it's either wrong checksumming or perhaps re-wrapping the key? whatever it is, it's weird.
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• 1521[21:06:30] <Lope> ayekat, ratrace: so weirdly x2go seems to implement some dumpster-fire version of SSH. So basically one should ignore any fingerprint messages one sees from the x2go client and just tunnel the connection through a proper ssh connection.
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• 1533[21:21:05] <Lope> ratrace, first impression, it's light years ahead of any VNC server I've ever tried.
• 1534[21:21:32] <Lope> I managed to watch a 1080p60hz video in full screen without any noticable frame dropping.
• 1535[21:21:52] <Lope> However the system got a bit stuttery when doing that. Though that's likely due to my CPU not keeping up.
• 1536[21:23:04] <Lope> it handled multiple monitors like an absolute champion (3x full HD monitors)
• 1537[21:23:17] <Lope> I was able to setup my desktop with ease as if I was on the metal.
• 1538[21:23:34] <Lope> The only way you notice you're not using metal directly is if you drag windows around, the dragging is laggy.
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• 1540[21:24:35] <Lope> I set it to "LAN" speed, and for the compression algo I selected none.
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• 1543[21:24:52] <Lope> (not saying that's the best option, it's the first thing I tried)
• 1544[21:25:12] <Lope> also the encryption I used for the SSH connection was AES accelerated.
• 1545[21:26:56] <ratrace> Lope: any compression artifacts?
• 1546[21:28:29] <Lope> absolutely none
• 1547[21:28:37] <Lope> I set the compression to none :p
• 1548[21:29:25] <ratrace> interesting. then I suppose my experience was either due to bad xorg networking performance or... xorg on FreeBSD. the tests I ran were with debian in a VM to have netflix (widewine aint' working on freebsd), and that was localhost even!
• 1549[21:30:08] <Lope> ratrace, So one doesn't really want to watch youtube inside the x2go session, fullscreen. because while it was full screen I couldn't click stuff in other windows on other monitors. and the mouse was disappearing on the youtube player timeline and response to my clicks was extremely sluggish during the fullscreen 1080p 60hz playback.
• 1550[21:30:23] <ratrace> I was expecting you'd see compression artifacts in order to keep low latency
• 1551[21:30:35] <Lope> I'm going to check whether the CPU was pegged. I'm playing a 1080 video fullscreen on the metal now to establish a baseline.
• 1552[21:30:59] <Lope> on my i5 4670K 4c4t @ 4.2ghz it's about 22% CPU usage while playing on the metal.
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• 1554[21:31:51] <Lope> ratrace, well, there's an option to disable the compression entirely. and the perf was impressive, though I'll see what the CPU overhead was now. Also sound didn't work as advertised.
• 1555[21:32:40] <Lope> I'll try going thru the diff sound passthru options and also will check that I can get sound using virt viewer and so on. The VM does have an AC97 audio device.
• 1556[21:32:51] <ratrace> Lope: well without compression it has to pipe out full 1080 bandwidth which is 8MB per frame.
• 1557[21:32:57] <Lope> did you test on a decent computer?
• 1558[21:33:11] <ratrace> Lope: yes
• 1559[21:33:17] <Lope> my PC is very old, but it's still decent per core perf.
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• 1561[21:33:26] <Lope> waiting for ryzen 4000 series to upgrade.
• 1562[21:33:43] <ratrace> so if you're assuming 30 frames per second, that's 240MB/s that needs to go through the wire!
• 1563[21:34:06] <Lope> ratrace, yeah, so 8mb per frame, but that's going thru AES which can do about 3GiB/s on my CPU I think.
• 1564[21:34:25] <ratrace> Lope: yes but network... 240MB is ~2Gbps
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• 1566[21:34:35] <Lope> roughly 380 frames/sec max in theory.
• 1567[21:34:51] <ratrace> Lope: AES never was bottleneck
• 1568[21:34:56] <Lope> it's localhost network
• 1569[21:35:06] <ratrace> oh.
• 1570[21:35:14] <Lope> well, it's virtio etc.
• 1571[21:35:26] <Lope> going to check the CPU usage now.
• 1572[21:35:32] <ratrace> so if you enable compression I bet that youtube fullscreen vid will be watchable
• 1573[21:35:38] <Lope> what PC did you test on
• 1574[21:35:53] <ratrace> i5-4460
• 1575[21:35:56] <Lope> Problem with enabling compression is that reduces the IO burden but increases the CPU burden
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• 1577[21:36:07] <Lope> oh, so my system is stronger
• 1578[21:36:16] <Lope> what clock and cores etc?
• 1579[21:36:25] <ratrace> 4c4t 3.2GHz
• 1580[21:37:24] <Lope> so this is the same generation, 4c4t 4.2ghz with 32GB DDR3 2400mhz corsair vengence dual mode ram (basically maxed out for the platform)
• 1581[21:37:37] <ratrace> compression is also vectorizeable so I don't think it'll be THAT much of cpu burden
• 1582[21:37:51] <Lope> I'm keen to delid but not keen to brick the CPU of my best PC at the moment hahaha
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• 1584[21:38:18] <Lope> yeah, depends on the algo, agreed
• 1585[21:39:19] <ratrace> Lope: it's supposed to be vbr, so technically it sacrifices quality to achieve framerate. so it needn't compress full frame
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• 1587[21:42:21] <Lope> ratrace, I'm trying to get sound out of my VM. Any ideas? it's buster KDE host, buster KDE guest, the guest has an AC97 audio device. Sound works on the host (tested)
• 1588[21:42:31] <Lope> but no sound out of the VM, volume is up etc.
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• 1590[21:43:08] <Lope> my host's sound control thing shows virt-viewer is trying to play sound, (listed under Applications (producing playback sound)) but nothing comes out.
• 1591[21:43:20] <Lope> I've tested with virt-manager and also virt-viewer
• 1592[21:43:42] <Lope> ratrace, ok, regarding VBR
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• 1594[21:47:11] <Lope> I've tried AC97 and ICH9 as above, no dice.
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• 1599[21:51:02] <Lope> I tried ICH6 as well now.
• 1600[21:51:05] <Lope> weird.
• 1601[21:53:19] <Lope> apparently people say that it's an apparmour issue
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• 1603[21:53:48] <ratrace> easy to test.... journalctl -eb _TRANSPORT=audit
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• 1608[21:57:10] <Lope> ratrace, the journal mentioned libvirt in a profile called unconfirmed and says apparmour=STATUS" operation="profile_replace"
• 1609[21:57:15] <Lope> no idea what that's all about.
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• 1627[22:10:21] <ratrace> Lope: you can ignore that. apparmor=DENIED would've been interesting here
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• 1638[22:20:00] <Lope> ratrace, yeah, there was no DENIED for libvirt
• 1639[22:20:27] <Lope> I couldn't get sound working. Neither thru virt-viewer virt-manager nor through x2go's magic.
• 1640[22:21:13] <Lope> How can I check if I'm using also or pulseaudio in the guest?
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• 1642[22:21:21] <Lope> cos apparently x2go supports pulseaudio
• 1643[22:23:30] <Lope> ratrace, I see my VM doesn't have any services running with pulse or audio in the name. only alsa-state and alsa-restore.
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• 1645[22:24:31] <ratrace> Lope: what system is that? regular debian installation?
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• 1651[22:29:14] <Lope> yes, debian 10 buster standard host and vm
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• 1670[22:54:11] <ratrace> Lope: weird . what DE or WM did you put in the guest?
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• 1711[23:24:25] <Lope> ratrace, it's debian 10 kde host and guest
• 1712[23:24:57] <Lope> ratrace, BTW I tested the CPU usage now on the host. 75% all 4c4t for playing the youtube video at 1080p30hz
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• 1714[23:27:12] <Lope> 1080p60hz it drops a few frames, but still very watchable.
• 1715[23:27:23] <Lope> depends on the content of course.
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• 1721[23:34:11] <Lope> interestingly, just playing a 1080p60hz video but with another window completely covering it, uses 32% of my CPU all core 4c4t
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• 1724[23:36:22] <Lope> ratrace, changing the x2go client from nopack to adaptive actually drops CPU usage 5-10% while playing a video full screen. makes system a little more usable.
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• 1744[23:50:41] <ratrace> Lope: nice!
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