56[00:18:41] *** Quits: KOOL_DUDE (~KOOL_DUDE@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
57[00:19:43] <annadane> i can't believe it's not butter
58[00:19:53] <VexToR> the colloquial term "BUSTER" has some distasteful associations, in the future one should investigate the nomenclature more thoroughly before committing changes like that, I thought there was a policy of inclusion now
61[00:21:00] <VexToR> I hands down refuse to use APACHE, as I am Native American, I assume many people were offended by this BUSTER thing in the same way
62[00:21:09] *** Quits: user217217 (~user21721@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
63[00:21:24] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
64[00:21:52] <Lope> sounds like you want to be offended and enjoy it.
65[00:22:12] <Lope> if I make a piece of software and call it human will you be offended by that too?
76[00:23:36] <Jaami> WoC: there was advanced setting in rufus where i enabled USB. advanced settings text was grayed out that is why i ignored it. i am now ready to reboot. hope it will replace windows on C with debian.
77[00:23:45] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
78[00:23:54] <Lope> well, if you think about it, if I make some software and name it "human" I'm either an anti-human, or I'm excluding the extra terrestrials and other mammals etc.
92[00:26:08] <greycat> And, for the record, buster is named for a character from one of the Toy Story movies.
93[00:26:49] <WoC> And the "native americans" are actually from asia, there are no natives in the Americas, neither north nor south
94[00:27:17] <Lope> I saw a funny definition of conservative vs liberal. Conservative: "I'm a vegetarian". Liberal "You should become a vegetarian." hahaha
96[00:28:04] <annadane> i would be at least a little sympathetic if someone did in fact find apache offensive but that person clearly isn't serious and is trolling based on the language used
97[00:28:17] <WoC> Aye
98[00:28:21] <annadane> i'd think it's a bit dumb to be offended but it isn't even a legitimate concern
99[00:28:26] <annadane> it's purely to troll
100[00:28:54] <WoC> Just looking to have a verbal fight... to each their own... ;P
101[00:29:01] <Lope> Objectively I see nothing offensive about Apache.
137[00:34:20] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See replaced-url
138[00:34:21] <Rozha> srry i dont know
139[00:34:22] <annadane> Rozha, become root by su -
140[00:34:23] <Rozha> )
141[00:34:28] <WoC> You seem to lack the PATH Rozha
142[00:34:29] <annadane> yeah, like greycat/dpkg posted
187[00:43:26] <annadane> apache itself probably has so many features that if you don't know what you're looking for it's probably fine to use it and if you're missing something then try something else
188[00:43:35] <annadane> i don't know very much about this kind of stuff in detail
189[00:43:57] <Lope> after being exposed to too much liberalism I watch this to detox replaced-url
190[00:44:09] <WoC> Not to mention, you said https which would require a server certificate
191[00:44:12] <annadane> okay, let's not make this politicial for no reason
253[00:54:45] <ratrace> I wonder if it really works as simple as that, no hiccups...
254[00:54:51] <misteradler> does xinitrc count as a dm?
255[00:55:18] <scala_pigs> the Apaches Logo has a feather in it
256[00:55:20] *** Quits: rotaticus (~fnord@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
257[00:55:26] <scala_pigs> its clearly racist
258[00:55:32] <ratrace> misteradler: xinitrc is sourced by xinit which is spawned by startx which must be run after you log in, so technically not quite.
278[00:58:51] <Rozha> Lovepump it good it run for terminal it doesnot goes sleep ?
279[00:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1539
280[00:59:32] <Rozha> what to best for debian to install apache nginx ? apache and for email ?
281[00:59:38] <annadane> it would be lovely to have them all organized in some sort of /usr/bin/startx/<list of xsessions you have installed>
282[01:00:02] <misteradler> or just simply use sddm
283[01:00:13] <annadane> depends, Rozha, there's different email solutions; a very simple MTA is dma
284[01:00:15] <annadane> !dma
285[01:00:16] <dpkg> [dma] (Direct Memory Access) PCs have DMA channels that allow certain devices to directly access memory in order to speed up the process. replaced-url
288[01:00:25] <dpkg> The DragonFly Mail Agent (DMA) is a small mail transport agent designed for home and office use; it does not listen for incoming connections. Packaged for Debian as dma, not part of the Debian 7 "Wheezy" release. replaced-url
289[01:00:30] <ratrace> Rozha: my recommendation, nginx unless you need Apache specific functionality like per-directory .htaccess, or something else. email? postfix for smtp, dovecot for imap/pop3.
290[01:00:42] <Rozha> @i:~# apt-get irssi
291[01:00:42] <Rozha> E: Invalid operation irssi
292[01:00:46] <ratrace> dma is not an MTA
293[01:00:49] <Rozha> ls
294[01:01:07] <annadane> it's apt-get install
295[01:01:10] <annadane> apt-get install irssi
296[01:01:16] <annadane> anyway, listen to ratrace
311[01:05:04] <annadane> "my recommendation, nginx unless you need Apache specific functionality like per-directory .htaccess, or something else. email? postfix for smtp, dovecot for imap/pop3."
312[01:05:06] <ratrace> well that was just a recommendation.
315[01:05:24] <dpkg> The DragonFly Mail Agent (DMA) is a small nullmailer designed for home and office use; it does not listen for incoming connections. Packaged for Debian as dma, not part of the Debian 7 "Wheezy" release. replaced-url
330[01:08:02] *** Quits: plutes (~plutes@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
331[01:08:30] <ratrace> well then if we're on the subject of the factoid, that "designed for home and office use" is grating my nerves a bit :) it's a nullmailer, suitable for any use case where a system needs to send email and there's an upstream MTA/smarthost available. it can be used quite well in server farms as well, so "home and office use" really means nothing.
341[01:09:58] * ratrace wonders how come nobody vandalized them yet :)
342[01:09:58] <ZedHeadTed|> ratrace: Thanks. I was wondering what "nullmailer" and "home and office" had to do w/ eachother.
343[01:10:34] <joepublic> in the distant past, except for home and home-office, everyone ran their own mailer and didn't get blackholed into spam folders
352[01:11:36] <dpkg> The DragonFly Mail Agent (DMA) is a small nullmailer; suitable for cases where a system needs to send email and there's an upstream MTA/smarthost available. It does not listen for incoming connections. Packaged for Debian as dma. replaced-url
355[01:11:58] <ZedHeadTed|> ZedHeadTed|: Wish I could remember those days. Now you basically have to go with a big company for email or none of your family members will get anything from you.
356[01:12:02] <joepublic> ah, so breathtaking it makes one cry
357[01:12:33] <annadane> i like how we all have these lacking areas of knowledge :P i'm borderline useless, yet know how to edit dpkg factoids
358[01:12:35] <Rozha> need some one help
359[01:12:35] <Rozha> checking for APR... no
360[01:12:35] <Rozha> configure: error: APR not found. Please read the documentation.
361[01:12:35] <Rozha> root@i:~/httpd-2.4.43#
362[01:12:53] <medard> ZedHeadTed|, how come?
363[01:12:54] <ratrace> ZedHeadTed|: two years ago I'd vehemently disagree citing "I've been running an MTA for many years... blah blah blah". But in 2020 I'll agree with you instead, having seen GMail eat up or junk mail from us regularly, we never spam.
364[01:13:15] <ratrace> regularly in the past year or two.
365[01:13:16] <ZedHeadTed|> annadane: As Peter Griffin once said, "There are gaps in my knowledge, Lois."
366[01:13:38] <annadane> watchers of family guy actively lose IQ point so that makes sense
367[01:13:43] <medard> what's with this btw? I in our company we sometimes have to ask microsoft to whitelist some of our contractors mail domains
368[01:13:43] <ratrace> Rozha: are you compiling something?
386[01:16:43] <ratrace> Rozha: WHY are you compiling Apache?
387[01:16:44] <medard> Are their blacklists public?
388[01:16:50] <Pegasus_RPG> Hello. I have a Debian system that provides PXE booting services for other network hosts, which I can use to boot them into Rescue mode. Now this system is in need of rescuing (it mysteriously hangs with no explanation in the syslog) so I'm wondering if I can put the Debian netinaller onto an LVM logical volume and boot to it?
389[01:16:50] <joepublic> if you don't already have a clearly articulable reason to be compiling apache, probably best not to compile it, but rather install the binary.
390[01:16:51] <ratrace> medard: nope
391[01:16:56] <ZedHeadTed|> The majority of Internet traffic is going to the same 5-10 companies.
396[01:17:28] <ratrace> if you want apache. otherwise "apt install nginx"
397[01:17:51] <annadane> google pisses me off because they're the ultimate "we will do whatever we want and take no responsibility and we are impossible to contact for any feedback that you can give to any of our 927 unethical practices"
398[01:17:57] <medard> so nullmailer from my own domain is prorably useless because most of my friend who use gmail won't get it?
400[01:18:12] <ratrace> medard: funny thing I've noticed with GMail is that sometimes mail just disappears. it accepts from US, but the recipient swears it's not anywhere, not in the inbox, not in the Junk folder, nowehere.
401[01:18:15] <Rozha> ratrace and if i want for any user ./hhtp://replaced-url
409[01:19:06] <medard> i never cared to investigate but is there a way to trace emails sent/received from/to gmail?
410[01:19:07] <annadane> "we take your feedback very seriously" feels like "yeah, we say this, but really the corporate direction has already been decided in advance"
411[01:19:17] <ratrace> annadane: it was actually. Google's moto was "Do no Evil" until they removed it from their... list of motos. :)
412[01:19:30] <Rozha> debian start systemctl ??
413[01:19:36] <Rozha> or other command ?
414[01:19:45] <ratrace> systemctl
415[01:19:50] <annadane> Rozha, general piece of advice, stop rushing. slow down, figure out what you want to do
416[01:19:57] <joepublic> taking feedback seriously doesn't mean you want to follow it; they might take it seriously to evaluate how well people are lying down for world conquest. or many other possible meanings.
419[01:21:17] <annadane> joepublic, yeah really. there has to be real world consequences for saying certain things
420[01:21:24] <annadane> and there never is
421[01:21:40] <Rozha> annadane from router port 80 open how to open from debian
422[01:21:41] <somiaj> this does seem more appropriate for #debian-offtopic
423[01:21:49] <joepublic> well, there only will be if the real world imposes said consequences, instead of trading freedom and privacy for immediate convenience. We're sunk.
425[01:21:57] <tds> Rozha: you want to look at mod_userdir - replaced-url
426[01:21:58] <joepublic> point taken.
427[01:22:37] <sponix> annadane: the Politicians and big corporations just set such a bad example of "say anything and get away with it" it is contagious
428[01:22:41] <ratrace> medard: btw, you can use a nullmailer with GMail as upstream
434[01:23:32] <Rozha> annadane mabe to unlock all ports ?
435[01:23:52] <ratrace> Rozha: consult your router's documentation . by default, there's no packet filtering on Debian unless you configured it yourself.
436[01:24:16] <ratrace> (I did assume you wanted to port forward / DNAT from WAN to LAN)
489[01:37:09] <Lope> ratrace, ZedHeadTed| I've been running my own mailserver for 5 years. and I've also setup a transactional email address with mailgun. for my own mailserver, the first time I emailed foo@live.com microsoft asked me to fill out a manual application form to have my mailserver IP whitelisted because they said they blacklist all IPs by default.
490[01:37:20] <joepublic> I dunno, this was not recently
501[01:38:45] <Lope> ratrace, ZedHeadTed|: on my own mailserver I was a bit of a DNS noob at the time and made some mistakes, which caused some of my mail to go into spam folders. But in both cases for my own mailserver as well as a mailgun address, I improved my rating with google by sending emails to all my friends who had gmail addresses, asked them to add the email to their contact list and star it, before deleting it. It seemed to help.
502[01:38:57] <ratrace> been using roundcube for several years now. But I hear there's a new contender, MailPile
503[01:39:15] <Lope> I setup a new mailserver a few months ago. I've not had any issues with being regarded as spam.
504[01:39:25] <ratrace> Lope: we automatically assign score 6.0 to all mail from Mailgun on our MTAs :)
522[01:43:00] <Rozha> ratrace and wome config for all users ?
523[01:43:04] <Lope> ratrace, do you actually use roundcube?
524[01:43:13] <ratrace> though personally I install roundcube straight from upstream. they have concept of LTS and I manage to get updates way faster that way.
525[01:43:18] <ratrace> Lope: yes, for years now.
526[01:43:19] <Lope> ratrace, I've always tended to use thunderbird or android mail clients.
528[01:43:34] <ratrace> Rozha: please use google translate, I have no idea what you just said.
529[01:43:42] <Lope> I prefer the speed of having my mail locally
530[01:43:46] <joepublic> thunderbird and random.apk are hardly going to provide webmail for clients.
531[01:44:08] <ratrace> Lope: well we have a webmail for hundreds of our users, and I'm using it too.
532[01:45:07] <Lope> ratrace, do you provide a hosting service?
533[01:45:34] <ratrace> Lope: the company I work for, we provide turnkey web solutions, hosting is part of it, but it's managed. you can't get direct access to it as a client.
535[01:46:02] <Lope> ratrace, my mailserver is mymail.myfoo.com but when I have emails and domains like qux@bar.com the email clients never get the mailserver incoming and outcoming hostname right.
536[01:46:06] <Lope> I have to manually specify it
537[01:46:17] <Lope> What's needed to make that work?
543[01:46:55] <ratrace> Lope: it never worked in my experience. all clients are trying the email domain, some will attempt smtp. or imap. prefix
544[01:47:28] <Lope> ratrace, so do you send them instructions to put in the incoming and outgoing addresses manually?
545[01:47:35] <Lope> I'm surprised it's not handled by DNS.
546[01:47:54] <ratrace> there's some autoconfig way via http.... but..... it's a total mess that never worked correctly. what we do, we have a PDF instructions with pretty pictures on how to set it up, because you don't access your domain dot com, you access our MTA's hostname. because TLS certs and postfix couldn't do SNI unutil recently.
547[01:48:22] *** Quits: jeeves (~jeeves@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
548[01:48:26] <Lope> ratrace, exactly, they all try the email domain. And the problem with that is you can't have mymailserver.foo.com have a certificate for bar.com
549[01:48:40] <Lope> so it's an unworkable scenario to support what mail clients attempt.
550[01:49:00] <tharkun> Good $DAY I have some doubts regarding the html protocol and SOP and CORS "policies" I know this is not the place to ask but can someone redirect me to the appropiate channel please.
551[01:49:02] <ratrace> Lope: well these days Postfix can do SNI, so I'll probably be reconfiguring our mail service to allow the clients to use their domains to connect.
569[01:52:34] <squirrel> still kicking thank you very much
570[01:52:36] <ratrace> Lope: for Dovecot :: replaced-url
571[01:52:36] <tharkun> In a nutshell the browser world response to insecure javascript
572[01:52:53] <ratrace> squirrel: bwahahaha, k :) meant squirrelmail ;)
573[01:52:56] <Lope> I setup an email address for my father. I sent him his email addr, password. Told him to click manual setup and set the incoming and outgoing hostname. He just kept complaining bitterly that it didn't work. Eventually with screenshots I drew on his screenshots.
581[01:54:00] <ratrace> Lope: For us the biggest problem is not server hostname. It's enforced TLS. the stupid client programs apparently aren't defaulting to it and the users have no idea what that even means
582[01:54:08] <tharkun> Lope: There is a way to automagically set up an email client. I have seen it done on some domains. I haven't figured out how to do it.
583[01:54:21] *** Quits: ledeni (~ledeni@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
584[01:54:21] <tharkun> ratrace: port587
585[01:54:25] <Lope> "I'll just use my one password everywhere" "okay okay, I've got one secure password now, and then one insecure password"
586[01:54:40] <ratrace> in addition, various outlooks have "Secure Password Authentication (SPA)" enabled by default which is totally some microsoft specific extension
587[01:55:00] <Lope> tharkun, sogo is supposed to do it I think. I tried an auto setup thing for it. But it didn't work.
588[01:55:12] <ratrace> tharkun: what about port 587? btw, STARTTLS should not be used. dedicated wrapped TLS port 465 should.
589[01:55:24] * annadane feels very stupid
590[01:55:34] <Lope> ratrace, do you mean instead of STARTTLS?
591[01:55:48] <ratrace> Lope: yes. read up RFC 8314
592[01:55:57] <Lope> ah, I've been using STARTTLS, Is it shit?
593[01:56:01] <tharkun> ratrace: ssmtp I believe is deprecated. I will not quarel with you about it.
594[01:56:18] <ratrace> Lope: it's plaintext until the client upgrades to TLS via STARTTLS... .so go figure. it's plaintext.
595[01:56:27] <Rozha> ratrace i try install web mail and this gose no msql /
601[01:57:12] <ratrace> Lope: initial connection and anything up until "STARTTLS" is issued. the client may even attempt sending user+pass and the server (if properly configured) will reject it, but the client already sent it.
604[01:57:45] <ratrace> Lope: it's just stupid. plaintext until you upgrade to TLS... o'rly. 465 is better as it's dedicated TLS port. you ned 4-way handshake and there's no plaintext oopsie-I-forgot-starttls
605[01:58:04] <Lope> ratrace, do you know offhand what settings are needed to select TLS?
606[01:58:12] *** Quits: alina (~irc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
612[01:59:09] <Lope> ratrace, I've tried using TLS with my mailserver and it didn't work. So I stuck with starttls, and just assumed it would be good cos it has TLS in the name haha.
613[01:59:45] <Lope> someone needs to make a new email protocol that uses SSH.
614[01:59:46] <Rozha> ratrace i try install web mail and that you recomend this gose no msql /
615[01:59:54] <Lope> that would be so much better.
623[02:01:29] <ratrace> Lope: well you need the cert, the key, the ciphers, protocols (eg. it still defaults to TLSv1.0+), and disable plaintext auth (aka refuse auth if set over unencrypted connection)
625[02:01:45] <ratrace> that's the thing I mentioned before. the server might reject auth, but the client has already commited the crime.
626[02:01:57] <Lope> ratrace, haha, i used iredmail and assumed it would setup sane options.
627[02:02:08] <Lope> gotcha
628[02:03:01] <ratrace> Rozha: if I'm understanding what you're saying (and PLEASE USE GOOGLE TRANSLATE!) you need to install MySQL. which is MariaDB these days, so I suppose you need to apt install mariadb-server-10.3
629[02:03:16] <Rozha> ratrace https doesn`t work
630[02:03:29] <ratrace> Rozha: yes you need to set up a certificate...
631[02:03:32] <Lope> ratrace, how does this look? replaced-url
642[02:05:11] <ratrace> Rozha: buy it or use a letsencrypt client. certbot if I'm not mistaken is a kitchen-sink suite these days. personally I prefer dehydrated. lightweight and simple but not for novices.
646[02:06:14] <Lope> Rozha, you can use a custom domain with protonmail if you want ultra easy.
647[02:06:21] <ratrace> Lope: nah it also has all the options to enable ssl, set up certs etc... it has a bit more, as it separates smtp from smtpd, and you need to enable services via master.cf for dedicated ports (aka smtps and submissions .. thta's not pluraral, that's "s" for "secrue")
649[02:06:26] <joepublic> you say "go go gadget certbot" and it asks you a single-digit number of questions and says "all done" and keeps up with it for you. All computer software should take inspiration from this.
651[02:07:17] <ratrace> joepublic: for novices yes, but once the novices graduate, it's just a megaton of highly opinionated bloatware.
652[02:07:57] <ratrace> dehydrated is a SINGLE shellscript that does all the work you need, and you write a simple hook.sh for various stages of operation, to interact with your httpd or dns, to install certs, to report errors. 'n stuff.
653[02:07:59] <Gerowen> joepublic: I installed certbot on my Apache/Nextcloud server because there were a handful of apps that didn't like connecting with my self-signed certificate. Plus the fact that it auto-renews and gets fresh certs every 3 months means I don't have to babysit.
654[02:08:02] <joepublic> i find that the older I get, the more I mentally transpose that into "one less thing to worry about" - even if they don't do it exactly as I would, it's being done, strike one thing off my list
658[02:09:38] <ratrace> and I find the older I get I'm way more grumpier and prefer simplicity and control, over opinionated bloatware written by a PFY hipster who just learned electron two days before their first release of CoolSoftware-ng. Now.... get off my lawn :)
659[02:10:11] <joepublic> upon consideration, I think that you should either use dehydrated, or manually procure and install the keyus
662[02:11:00] <ratrace> well I did and do recommend certbot for novices. :) just stating my non-novice preference.
663[02:11:09] <tds> few lines of apache config and it's magically obtained certs
664[02:11:44] <annadane> i have a very stupid question, if i accidentally mark something as manually installed <apt install foo when foo is already installed> is it a good idea to set it to automatic again, or does it not matter... i'm just thinking in terms of autoremove lists
665[02:11:47] <ratrace> tds: in hook.sh?
666[02:12:15] <ratrace> annadane: I'd prefer to revert it back to automatic. My OCD would kill me if it found out I allowed unneeded packages to remain installed.
667[02:12:33] <tds> ratrace: no, it's a full acme client of its own
668[02:12:41] <ratrace> oh, I see
669[02:12:59] <annadane> yeah i'm OCD about it too i just wondered if it was like, a common thing people did
670[02:13:21] <annadane> but yeah i do want the proper stuff marked as manual so it gets taken out with autoremove
671[02:13:26] <annadane> i guess i could've answered my own questio
685[02:14:59] *** Quits: Tobbi__ (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
686[02:15:37] <ratrace> tds: that limits it to apache only? can you use that to dispatch the same certs to other services that are using the same domain names?
687[02:15:38] <sponix2ipfw> tds: apache2 from backports works well for me
688[02:15:39] <Lope> ratrace, what about port 993?
689[02:15:41] <annadane> "don't warn me when i apt-mark manual foo but do warn me when i type apt install foo because if i'm typing apt install foo 99.9999% of the time i'm making a mistake and trying to install something i already have installed, not trying to mark it as manual"
690[02:16:05] <ratrace> Lope: yes, that's for imap. and 995 if you allow pop3
691[02:16:29] <sponix2ipfw> annadane: I agree. That is common for me also
692[02:16:33] <Lope> ratrace, but you suggested using port 465?
693[02:16:34] <ratrace> ugh... imaps and pop3s respectively
694[02:16:41] <ratrace> Lope: yes for Postfix and submission
701[02:18:15] <Jaami> debian non-free net and non-free dvd both failed. every time setup when start it shows many mount errors and then finally go for cd-rom check and never passed through that point. what shoul i do next?
702[02:18:31] <tds> though I still quite like dehydrated as a standalone acme client, for other services or whatever - but the simplicity of just being able to magically enable tls for a vhost is great with mod_md
703[02:18:43] <Lope> ratrace, I've got "ssl_min_protocol = TLSv1.2" but how do I prevent 1.3?
704[02:18:47] <ratrace> Jaami: did you verify the ISO you downloaded has the correct checksum?
705[02:19:02] <ratrace> Lope: why would you want that?
710[02:19:44] <ratrace> Lope: maybe you were thinking of SSLv3
711[02:19:48] <Lope> ah, I was getting mixed up yeah.
712[02:20:06] <annadane> i wonder if i file a wishlist bug against apt whether that will happen for debian 11
713[02:20:14] <annadane> may as well try
714[02:20:20] <ratrace> the order is SSLv1 < SSLv2 < SSLv3 < TLS1.0 < TLS1.1 < TLS1.2 < TLS1.3
715[02:20:56] <ratrace> TLSv1.2 should be minimum, unless (like me) you need to support Outlook 2010.......
716[02:21:08] <ratrace> (then you need TLSv1.0 as minimum)
717[02:21:32] <Lope> ratrace, then authentication method should be "normal password" ?
718[02:22:12] <ratrace> yes. plaintext over TLS. there's things like challenge-response, microsoft's LOGIN, cram* etc... but with TLS you don't need any of those
724[02:23:23] <ratrace> Lope: btw, there's #postfix and #dovecot here on Freenode, for dedicated support, so #debian isn't cluttered with such highly specific topics
725[02:23:42] <tds> and ##email for something a bit more generic if you need it :)
739[02:35:08] <lwp> Jaami, let's talk about how you wrote the .iso onto your USB again. If you are using rufus, you MUST use the "DD" mode
740[02:37:55] <doubletwist> In buster, I see the 'logrotate.service' daemon is enabled but 'dead'. It seems like it's run by systemd timer instead of cron now, so is that the expected state for this service?
742[02:38:47] <tds> yes (unless logrotate is actively running)
743[02:39:15] <tds> if you `systemctl list-timers` you'll see when it will next run
744[02:39:23] <doubletwist> which should only be sporadically and for a short period of time I assume? I ask because I'm trying to figure out how to tell Saltstack to manage the service
749[02:40:16] <tds> what are you trying to manage exactly? you'll want to ensure the timer is enabled and started, but that should be the default state when the package is installed
752[02:41:37] <doubletwist> Well I'm modifying an existing formula which historically has managed logrotate on RedHat based systems, which tells the system to have a service enabled and running. In RedHat it's the 'crond' service that it's looking for. I told it to manage 'logrotate' instead but of course it (by default) tries to
753[02:41:52] <doubletwist> start the service, which then goes dead practically immediately, so it shows up as a failure
754[02:41:56] <doubletwist> Comment: Service logrotate is already enabled, and is dead
772[02:46:49] <doubletwist> Looks like RedHat systems might start using it soon too. Not sure if it's there in EL8 (I don't have any) but I guess i'll burn that bridge when I get there. :)
827[03:17:22] <Gerowen> I'm guessing it upgraded your installed version then? I'm not certain, but you might try doing apt clean to delete the cached copy of the deb you installed, if it's cached, followed by an apt reinstall packagename
938[04:44:03] <themill> If 60k of disk space is a problem for you, then don't use a binary distribution like Debian.
939[04:44:59] <BloatHunter> At best its bloat, at worst its a security concern. "Therefore in October 2015, the 1394 Trade Association board of directors voted to close official operations[...]"
948[04:48:13] <themill> Considering that there are still plenty of people out there with 1394 cameras that work just fine, I doubt anyone is going to be interested in removing working software from under them
969[04:53:32] <usr01234321eq111> a user told me a days ago that i can run x64 on x32, you know something about it? I mean, it's possible, but if it runs, it won't be the same (as far i know)
970[04:53:37] <BloatHunter> I see adapters and custom built one offs that wouldn't even apply in this case (gstreamer)
1096[06:35:38] <dadinn> I have a question about mkfs.ext4... Does anyone know what the -j option supposed to do? the manpage says it create a filesystem with ext3 journal... can't find anything on the internets about what this means
1105[06:39:12] <jim> I wonder if the journal format between ext3 and ext4 didn't change?
1106[06:39:20] <jm_> all mkfs.ext* man pages point to the same file, it appears no-one changed this to say ext4
1107[06:41:00] <dadinn> it is supposed to format a boot partition, and I vaguely remember I have copied this code because somehow it might disable journaling... which i don't think it does
1108[06:41:20] <BloatHunter> When is debian getting f2fs option by default
1111[06:42:09] <jim> jm_, yep, no doubt... even mkfs.ext2 seems to have -j and -J, which say -j makes an ext3 journal
1112[06:42:33] <dadinn> jim: the manpage definitely says Create the filesystem with an ext3 journal. If the -J option is not specified, the default journal parameters will be used to create an appropriately sized journal (given the size of the filesystem) stored within the filesystem. Note that you must be using a kernel which has ext3 support in order to actually make use of the journal.
1194[07:30:31] <annadane> BloatHunter, try #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
1195[07:32:35] <bt40> I want to install debian on my smartphone (debian-arm). Not side by side, clean install. is it possible? If only touch-display and network work, it will be fine for me.
1225[07:45:13] <themill> does /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1.7.0 exist at present? What package owns it (dpkg -S /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1.7.0)
1245[08:18:20] <laughingtiger> I have a strange problem, on windows when I play 1080p videos in full screen mode, there's a line on the right side of the screen, the color on the two sides of the line is different. on debian 10 same video, same machine but no such a problem. I'm just trying to look for an answer here so pls don't feel be annoyed because I couldn't find any elsewhere.
1251[08:19:26] <laughingtiger> a vertical line. upgrad video card driver didn't solve it.
1252[08:21:03] <laughingtiger> if you say it's video's problem because some 2160p video I don't remember have this problem, why on debian it's ok to play without this problem?
1267[08:27:18] <kingsley> laughingtiger: So, is my understanding correct that the same 1080p video, hardware and full screen mode renders a line of the right side of your screen on Windows, but not on Debian 10?
1268[08:27:46] <laughingtiger> kingsley, yes it is the case.
1270[08:28:28] <kingsley> laughingtiger: OK, thank you for clarifying. What do you want?
1271[08:28:43] <laughingtiger> even with the same mpv player. I wonder if it's the windows version's mpv's problem.
1272[08:28:46] *** Quits: soft_cement (uid323143@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1273[08:29:43] <laughingtiger> kingsley, lol, I'm just desperate to find a solution to this problem, since I couldn't find any, not even a similar case like mine on google or bing.
1274[08:30:08] <laughingtiger> but I've tried some other players, all showed the same result.
1275[08:30:53] <kingsley> laughingtiger: So, is my underderstanding correct that you want to watch the 1080p video Windows without the extra line on the right side of your screen?
1276[08:31:32] <laughingtiger> kingsley, yes, but are you kidding me?
1277[08:31:43] *** Quits: nt80 (~nt80@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1278[08:32:02] <kingsley> laughingtiger: OK, no. Thank you for clarifying.
1283[08:35:15] <kingsley> 1.) Using a search engine like Google's or DuckDuckGo's to look for web pages containing windows, bug, vertical line video and the name of your video card?
1284[08:35:29] <kingsley> 2.) Asking in ##windows?
1286[08:36:42] <kingsley> 3.) Asking in an IRC channel for the company that made your video card? (I suppose there may be channels with names like "nvidia" and "amd".)
1287[08:36:48] <laughingtiger> kingsley, let me try your No.1 advice. I just found out there's a ##windows channel and it's not helping.
1298[08:47:19] <Haohmaru> it might help to see a screenshot of the vertical line
1299[08:47:40] <laughingtiger> kingsley, let me check it.
1300[08:48:26] <Haohmaru> iirc, mpv should have tons of options for the decoding, and displaying of the videos.. btw
1301[08:48:38] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, oh right you reminded me that when the video is paused, the line disappeared, it only appears when the video is playing.
1302[08:48:45] <Haohmaru> some combinations might not work
1310[08:52:44] <kingsley> laughingtiger: It seems to me that your video card's name and/or model number may also improve the specificity of your search results.
1312[08:53:23] <laughingtiger> and I also forgot to say the line only appears after the video has been played for a while, it didn't appear instantly when the video is played.
1313[08:54:07] <laughingtiger> kingsley, I see.
1314[08:54:50] <kingsley> laughingtiger: So maybe "delay" is another key word to try.
1315[08:54:50] <Haohmaru> screenshot of the "line" because i'm starting to suspect it's not really a line
1339[09:03:51] <Haohmaru> well, if nothing else - the solution seems to be to ditch crapdows and use debian >:)
1340[09:05:10] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, I can do that but some software doesn't work at all on debian but work fine on windows, they just don't care about their linux version.
1355[09:08:26] <BloatHunter> Expecting Debian to write those features is like expecting your roof to keep your house standing.
1356[09:08:33] <kingsley> laughingtiger: Yeah, I used to worry about Windows software on Debian too. My epiphany was realizing linux supported more apps. That was in 1996. I've been using Debian as my daily driver ever since. Please remember linux has emulators that let you run multiple operating systems like qemu and maybe wine.
1357[09:08:41] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, now the video plays fine, the line still hasn't appeared, I don't know what to say. I'm not messing with you, I swear.
1358[09:08:58] <BloatHunter> Its probably playing off the intel now
1359[09:09:13] <BloatHunter> Is bumblebee still a thing?
1372[09:16:21] *** Quits: badar (~Badar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1373[09:16:44] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, it's still not appearing, I can paste it some time later but idk if you'll still be here then. if you just want to say whether I'm joking or not, I swear it on my life I'm not joking at all. it's a real problem.
1403[09:41:40] <user217_> ratrace: I cant do anything. Even: apt-get update
1404[09:42:38] <ratrace> user217_: well, you're out of disk space. you need to free it. delete stuff. for starters, check /var/log/ and see if there are any rotated files you could remove
1406[09:42:53] <nkuttler> and yeah, clean out logs, and then everything else..
1407[09:43:00] <ratrace> ah yes, apt-get retains the cache, right?
1408[09:43:05] <karlpinc> user217_: "apt-get clean" is a good way to recover some space. It removes retrieved package files, that are presumably already installed.
1409[09:43:36] <user217_> nkuttler: karlpinc still have error after apt-get clean
1410[09:43:39] <mutante> yea, always the first thing i do when a server is about to run out of disk.
1411[09:43:52] <mutante> usually gets you some breathing room
1412[09:43:54] <nkuttler> user217_: what did you do *before* you ran out of disk space?
1413[09:44:09] <karlpinc> user217_: "df -h" will tell you what fs is full....
1414[09:44:29] <ratrace> problem is, all these are probably temporary measures, depending on disk size.
1415[09:44:42] <nkuttler> user217_: also find / -size +100M and such can find big files you may or may not want to keep..
1416[09:44:48] <mutante> user217_: also du -hs /var/log/* etc to see which dirs are the culprit
1417[09:44:56] <nkuttler> and buy bigger disks
1418[09:45:00] <ratrace> try to remove unused logs and install "ncdu" then hunt down where the space is used and see if you can free it
1419[09:45:04] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1432[09:52:40] <ratrace> user217_: look into /var/log/ and see if there are rotated files. rotated files have .<number>.gz suffix added by default, so some.log will have some.log.1, some.log.2.gz, some.log.3.gz etc... you can safelry remove those with .gz
1447[10:09:22] <ratrace> user217_: and you need less than 100k freed to install ncdu.
1448[10:09:49] <user217_> ratrace: it already installed, I think
1449[10:10:55] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1450[10:11:47] <ratrace> user217_: then use it to find out where teh space is being used . but realistically.... if it's not the logs or apt cache, it's probably something in your ~/ .
1451[10:12:09] <ratrace> I mean... stuff that can be removed to free up space.
1475[10:22:46] <ratrace> for example, running it on my system now, it wants to remove cryptsetup. if it did that, I'd never be able to boot into my encrypted rootfs system. I wonder why it's considered unused.... :/
1476[10:22:48] <BloatHunter> I start from so little that its pinned and manual
1545[11:01:01] <BloatHunter> Most people dropped it after PG json b sharding
1546[11:01:18] <Lopenew> ratrace, I had the weirdest issue last night. After adding the smtps snippet you gave me to postfix (and restarting postfix service), the "master" process (postfix) was listening on 465 in addition to 587. And I could connect to the port like this from with the mailserver container `nc -z 192.168.x.y 465; echo $?` (returns 0) but from outside the mailserver container I could only connect to the 587 port, not the 465 port. It's the weirdest thing ever,
1547[11:01:19] <Lopenew> because there is no iptables setup on my mailserver container. (`iptables-save` on it returns nothing) and the 465 rules are in exactly the same place as the 587 rules, in the same position in the iptables.
1549[11:02:49] <Lopenew> (testing the connection directly from the host that the container runs on). so weird.
1550[11:03:06] *** Quits: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1551[11:03:43] <Lopenew> mutante, yes, I know, but my systems tools already use it. it's a huge dependency and not going anywhere until upstream provides alternatives.
1552[11:03:56] <Lopenew> BloatHunter, yes, PG json looks awesome, I'm keen to try it some time.
1563[11:08:59] <Lopenew> to clarify what I said above, I could only connect to the 465 port (on either localhost or 192.168.x.y) from within the mailserver container. From the hostnode that the container is on, I could not connect. the mailserver container has no iptables. The hostnode's iptables entries for 587 and 465 pertain only to forwarding connections from the outside, and are exactly the same rules in the same position in the iptables and don't relate to the hostnode
1564[11:08:59] <Lopenew> connecting to the container. Which is why I'm scratching my head not knowing why the hostnode can't connect to the mailserver container on port 465.
1571[11:10:43] <Lopenew> mutante, now that Meteor has been acquired by tiny, and they're investing developers and developing it actively again, alternatives to mongodb will likely come.
1572[11:11:32] <BloatHunter> PG has been around since.... 95?
1573[11:11:37] <mutante> Lopenew: did you already check with "netstat -tulpen" or similar if postfix is actually listening on these ports on the interface/IP you expect it to?
1597[11:23:03] <Lopenew> there is a private bridge that the containers are on, it's already setup, mail, web etc servers have been running for years like this.
1605[11:27:29] <Lopenew> mutante, yeah thanks, will try that. because I suspect that for some odd reason the connections might be getting rejected based on originating ip, by postfix.
1706[12:20:25] <pasiz> that is the mac of your wlan station
1707[12:20:35] <pasiz> what is your question then?
1708[12:21:20] <simplicius> I go in the DHCP server section there is the list of connected clients with their MACs, mine is different for that you just seen
1754[12:46:13] <cyveris> pasiz: Nearly every protocol can be encapsulated within another. Example: iSCSI over Ethernet. Doesn't mean it will work well. There are wireless USB solutions.
1765[12:49:23] <cyveris> No, that's PART of the standard. There's also the protocol layer, which is where the overwhelming majority of what you actually do with USB takes place.
1766[12:49:34] <pasiz> it's like saying wifi is rj45 over air ;)
1767[12:49:40] *** Quits: marcello1 (~marcello1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1768[12:49:49] <cyveris> RJ45 is the physical layer.
1769[12:49:55] <pasiz> so is USB
1770[12:50:13] <cyveris> There is a physical layer in USB, yes. But that is not the entire standard.
1773[12:51:12] *** fereneme_ is now known as fereneme
1774[12:51:20] <cyveris> Wifi takes most of 802.3 Ethernet (L2-LLC and up, if you like the OSI model) and transplants it onto a new physical and media access control layer. There's no reason the same can't be done with USB, from a communications protocol standard.
1783[12:55:48] <pasiz> yes, on aeronautics, you could carry usb compliant devices on board
1784[12:56:30] <Surfer2011> hello, what is the easiest way to create a file (xxx.desktop) with all the neccesary lines in one command?
1785[12:57:03] <cyveris> pasiz: The USB *protocol* absolutely could be adapted to a radio-based PHY, just how Wifi did so with the data-link facilities within Ethernet. </end>
1815[13:07:11] *** Quits: Inablue (524d6398@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1816[13:08:08] <Surfer2011> i thought like [Desktop Entry] >> /home/chef/Schreibtisch/bsw.desktop && Name=BSW >> /home/chef/Schreibtisch/bsw.desktop && ...
1817[13:08:27] <Surfer2011> but i think those special char. cause the problem
1823[13:10:48] <Surfer2011> ahh okay i will try this
1824[13:11:36] <Lope> ratrace, I've just checked the container config (proxmox) there are no port specific settings in there. I'll double check that the proxmox firewall isn't running.
1834[13:16:23] <Lope> ratrace, there is no proxmox firewall enabled for the container. I do my iptables myself. the hook script for the container also does not contain anything about ports
1894[13:47:26] <bionade24> user217_: LMDE is a stretch based, too.
1895[13:47:54] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1896[13:47:58] <mutante> user217_: what made you install that?
1897[13:48:04] *** Quits: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip) (Quit: Famous quotes #64: "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." - Alan Kay)
1915[13:55:51] <user217_> mutante: I dont remember now for shure, sorry
1916[13:56:02] <mutante> user217_: how about installing Debian then and having support :)
1917[13:56:10] <user217_> mutante: I think that I wanted to try something new
1918[13:56:25] <mutante> i see, *nod*
1919[13:56:57] <user217_> mutante: now chances at this time, sorry( But all you are nice, I see this)
1920[13:57:09] <mutante> user217: i think i would argue that: new = many bugs exotic = few others to ask for help
1921[13:58:47] <user217_> mutante: as I said there is no chanse now to change distro
1922[14:00:02] <bionade24> user217_: If you would have simply typed your question instead of the stupid pre-question you would now probably had the answer.
1973[14:34:11] <L0aD1nG> suggests basicly only ubuntu repos for the source.list, though i dont encourage you to try it because i dont know the results..
1974[14:34:43] <user217_> L0aD1nG: Im not shurethat there is any problem with my sources
1975[14:35:21] <user217_> L0aD1nG: I use this manual replaced-url
2091[16:00:36] <Ede|Popede> f-a: tested it both in a user shell (but w/o sudo) and in a root shell. for umount in the user shell it first gives me a / and then all the mountpoints. for root it completes with entries in $CWD
2101[16:04:17] <thenori> I've spent three days cracking my skull against nvidia drivers and all I have to show for it is a functional display manager and a cracked skull
2107[16:06:25] <jm_> right, I assumed it's optimus setup - have you tried configuring that?
2108[16:06:30] *** Quits: halvors (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2109[16:06:51] <jm_> !bumblebee
2110[16:06:51] <dpkg> The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <stretch> and <buster> and <bullseye>. replaced-url
2111[16:07:21] <thenori> I tried bumblebee & prime and I just ended up in and out of rescue mode for three days
2115[16:09:04] <thenori> I scoured the internet for fixes & config files, I even found someone with my exact model of laptop (inspiron 7559) and I could not get it to work
2123[16:11:12] <jm_> apparently there are two ways, using nouveau and nvidia non-free driver - I thought only the latter is possible (well it was back then)
2124[16:11:24] *** Quits: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2125[16:12:08] <thenori> it just doesn't detect my video card
2133[16:14:55] <thenori> "Since Debian bullseye libgl1-nvidia-glx no longer exists, the correct package is libgl1-nvidia-tesla-glx libnvidia-tesla-glcore so to install nvidia drivers from bullseye or more recent versions: "
2134[16:15:01] <thenori> this edit was made in the last two days
2171[16:25:29] <uniqdom> Hello, I have a week ago I have disabled and stopped exim4 using: systemctl stop exim4 ; systemctl disable exim4, I'm receiving everyday an email from the server with the subject "exim paniclog on zeus.coders.cl has non-zero size", and the body says: "... socket bind() to port 25 for address 127.0.0.1 failed: Address already in use: daemon abandoned ...". I have a docker container exposing port 25.
2183[16:33:04] <uniqdom> jm_: thanks, I see that the file you pointed says: "if [ -s "/var/log/exim4/paniclog" ]; then", then erasing the contents should work. I will have to wait until tomorrow.
2184[16:34:03] <pingouin> hello
2185[16:34:07] <pingouin> debian buster. dhclient[563]: bound to 192.168.0.2 -- renewal in 37052 seconds . what control this "renewal" parameter ? the /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf is commented (#send dhcp-lease-time 3600;) i can't figure it out.
2186[16:35:04] <pingouin> systemd ? Cron ?
2187[16:35:18] *** Quits: undercovertux (~undercove@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2212[16:43:35] <jm_> pingouin: that makes no sense. the client should do this long before the lease expires, so you should not even be aware this is happening
2331[17:56:45] <f-a> in my sudoers.d/f I have a line like `f extensa = NOPASSWD: MOUNT, NETWORK, APT, VPN, MACHINE, FIREWALL`. (`f` is my username). What should I put in place of "extensa" to match all hosts? I ask because I always forget to modify this file when I buy a new machine
2423[18:36:19] <somiaj> anyways one hack you can do is put 'exit 0' at the top of the post install script then run dpkg --configure -a, and it will install, but the install script will fail to do what it was supose to, and there maybe issues because of this.
2430[18:39:30] <somiaj> for what it is worth, fuse3 installed just fine on a buster test system I have.
2431[18:40:06] <somiaj> but the only way I know to debug your issue is look at the post install script and try to determine what is failing. Since the script produced no errors, I'm not sure what it could be.
2460[18:46:02] <karlpinc> velix: Well, it's also the release with the most packages in Debian history. Is it proprortionally more broken? Is it that newly introduced packages are broken? (Just curious.)
2462[18:46:26] <velix> This flap attitude that Debian is bug-free is terrible. Many packages are so old that even the maintainers do not release patches for them.
2463[18:47:04] <karlpinc> velix: Debian is not bug free. It's just that the bugs don't change.
2464[18:47:13] <velix> karlpinc: There are some important packages, which never have been touched since Buster release.
2467[18:47:21] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). replaced-url
2471[18:47:48] <velix> karlpinc: I know Debian's policy. But a broken package is critical to me ;)
2472[18:48:11] <karlpinc> velix: I know how that feels.
2473[18:48:30] <velix> I'm in the big fortune that I'm able to benefit and that I know the risk of doing it.
2474[18:48:46] <velix> But always answer "your system is broken" doesn't help anyone :(
2475[18:49:27] <velix> Maybe I should push the backport to buster-backports. All tests run successfully.
2476[18:49:48] <karlpinc> velix: somiaj tried to help you with it, and gave you suggestions. If you don't follow them and want to do something else that's fine, but it's on you.
2478[18:50:11] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2479[18:50:15] <mdk> Hi, trying to install libwxgtk3.0-dev, but it depends on wx3.0-headers (= 3.0.4+dfsg-14), but I only see version 3.0.4+dfsg-15 available, what did I get wrong?
2481[18:50:29] <jelly> velix, noone said debian was bugfree, it's you that had a fit when it wsa implied your environment has something weird that triggered a bug that does not happen normally
2482[18:50:30] <karlpinc> velix: You could. But then you're supposed to commit to maintaining the backport. Which means keeping up with problems with security and fixing the backport when there's security issues.
2483[18:50:34] <velix> karlpinc: I want to do so, but getting punished with "having a broken system" is way too much to handle. I'm administrating more than 12 debian servers right now.
2484[18:50:48] <velix> karlpinc: I thought, backports don't come without any warranty?
2494[18:53:22] *** Quits: barteks2x__ (~barteks2x@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2495[18:53:56] <jelly> this isn't the greatest idea; <somiaj> anyways one hack you can do is put 'exit 0' at the top of the post install script then run dpkg --configure -a,
2497[18:54:04] <mdk> karlpinc: (pasting commands are better, I think I managed to get it wrong in my first message :p)
2498[18:54:09] <karlpinc> velix: They don't come with an official debian warranty. They are _supposed_ to be useful, which means have some sort of security maintenance.
2502[18:54:44] <jelly> somiaj, adding "set -x" and figuring out what, exactly, fails is more sane
2503[18:55:22] <jelly> velix, I don't think I have a single system with ONLY Debian packages.
2504[18:55:32] *** Quits: StrongMan40 (~StrongMan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2505[18:55:33] <karlpinc> mdk: You're running testing. Testing breaks. For support see #debian-next.
2506[18:55:37] <karlpinc> !debian-next
2507[18:55:37] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
2508[18:56:04] <mdk> karlpinc: thanks :)
2509[18:56:13] <velix> somiaj: Sorry for being so upset... homeoffice makes me crazy.
2510[18:56:31] <mdk> karlpinc: I'm OK with it breaking, I'm also OK to try to report it cleanly to who can be interested :) joining #debian-next, thanks!
2511[18:56:51] <jelly> velix, but Debian is still my preferred platform, because there's the least amount of extra stuff to add to make machines do useful things
2513[18:57:28] <velix> Comtainers made me stay at Debian.
2514[18:57:32] <karlpinc> velix: That said, I bet that not a whole lot of people who upload backports actually monitor and update when there are security issues. The kernel is probably an exception, just because so many people use it. But that's a guess.
2515[18:58:07] <karlpinc> jelly: Same here. Of everything, debian is easiest.
2517[18:58:37] <karlpinc> velix: What flavor of containers do you use?
2518[18:59:24] <velix> karlpinc: In the past, I've used chroots to backport stuff. Now I'm using rootless containers using podman and run the containers contributed by the coders theirself (or I build my own ones).
2519[18:59:36] <annadane> i guess we sort of build systems and make a few reasonable guesses about what the case will be (backports will be generally well supervised, packages in stable will avoid most *critical* bugs because of the testing of going through two branches before stable etc) and when things fail, we adjust accordingly and address those specific concerns
2520[19:00:28] <annadane> or become contributors ourselves like people in the debian project suggest, step up and fix the problems ourselves
2521[19:00:42] <karlpinc> annadane: Hard to know backports are not getting security updates though. :-P
2522[19:00:52] <velix> Just to emphasize this again: I am NOT complaining that the packages are too old. I'm just curious that some of the packages are obviously broken, like fuse3. Most tools use fuse2, so the fuse3 bug may not have been noticed.
2523[19:01:03] <annadane> it does seem like a bit of a magic bullet for new users when they're not necessarily aware of stuff like that, yes
2527[19:02:02] <velix> karlpinc: I'm calming down, since my backport works great ,)
2528[19:02:15] <annadane> there's no perfect solution between "stable has some broken packages (which btw we should look into fixing more of those for point releases), testing has broken packages for a while and the slowest security updates, sid is you get to keep all the pieces if it breaks"
2529[19:02:34] <karlpinc> velix: Crank up. Drink some RedBull. Become a Debian dev. Fix the world!
2531[19:03:40] <annadane> the thing with backports though is that in theory they should avoid a lot of problems, you have to be motivated to upload a backport, you're clearly doing it because it fulfills a function you need so in theory there's going to be care put into it
2533[19:04:10] <jelly> velix, when someone says thing is broken on YOUR system, that means you have a combination of elements that triggers a bug; the bug might NOT happen on other systems.
2534[19:04:16] <annadane> i feel like packages are broken rarely, and while they cause frustration as witnessed today it's not "every package is broken all the time"
2535[19:04:20] *** linuxraven is now known as plaur_27
2536[19:04:26] <jelly> velix, so what's obvious to YOU is not obvious to US
2537[19:04:34] <karlpinc> annadane: Yeah. But 70% of the work is keeping up with changes. (In so far as maintaining software anyway.) And that's an additional 70% that people don't want to do.
2538[19:04:39] <jelly> annadane, oh some are so broken.
2539[19:05:14] <jelly> but it's a rare thing to have a completely uninstallable package end up in stable if anyone is using it
2540[19:05:17] <karlpinc> annadane: Every package probably _is_ broken all the time. We just don't know it or don't care. :)
2541[19:05:17] <annadane> in the end it's a cliche to say debian is a volunteer project so step up you lazy sod, but it is also partially true
2542[19:05:53] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> There's some broken packages though even in stable.
2543[19:06:11] <jelly> Aurora_iz_kosmos, uninstallable and without a RC bug?
2544[19:06:16] *** Inablue is now known as ina_23
2545[19:06:20] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: RC?
2546[19:06:30] <jelly> release critical
2547[19:06:36] <jelly> !rc
2548[19:06:37] <dpkg> i guess rc is <Release-Critical>, or Release Candidate, or "run commands": a filename extension convention used in Unix configuration files (e.g. .muttrc, .screenrc, .vimrc).
2549[19:06:44] <jelly> !Release-Critical
2550[19:06:45] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
2551[19:06:49] *** ina_23 is now known as inablue
2552[19:07:14] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: Hardly. They just make Geiser completely unusable for Guile-2.2 on systems that have both Guile-2.0 and Guile-2.2 installed.
2553[19:07:29] *** Quits: paco (~dell@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2554[19:08:09] <annadane> at least debian has the least surprises and the bugs are known and you can address it then rather than have a torrent (as in a lot of; not downloadable torrents) of new packages/bugs that you have to keep up with updates for like arch (to be fair, i hear arch is quite good quality-wise)
2555[19:08:51] <annadane> i guess i'm also preaching to the choir so sorry for the rant
2559[19:10:10] <annadane> i guess this is also why it's good to not discourage people from running testing/sid if they know the risks and they're willing to solve problems, because more testing is a good thing before these packages enter stable
2563[19:11:17] <greycat> people who know how to triage a problem and write a coherent bug report are wonderful, and we need more of those... unfortunately, most of the people who run testing and then come here are just looking for "n3w3r p4ckag35"
2567[19:12:40] <wwilliam> what hardware do you recomment for a home desktop with at least 64GB ram not for gaming mostly to created VM's so an extreme video card is not need it.Thank you
2602[19:32:32] <doubletwist> So I'm a little unclear. If I want to manage repo gpg trust via saltstack. In RHEL based systems I can place the keys in /etc/pki/rpm-gpg then import them. Is there a similar 'proper' place to put gpg repo keys in debian? ( eg /usr/share/keyrings ?) and once the files there, are they automatically imported or do I still need to do apt-key add ?
2603[19:33:28] <somiaj> doubletwist: usually /usr is for debian packages to put files, so what you see in /usr/share is put there by debian packages.
2606[19:34:01] <somiaj> doubletwist: so I don't think /usr/share/keyrings would be appropriate for to manually put a key, though I don't know the prefered place.
2618[19:38:08] <doubletwist> Or I'm thinking it's saying there is no real place to put them, just pipe the key through "apt-key add" and not actually store a file anywhere - other than the keyring that 'apt-key add' itself adds it to
2623[19:39:25] <somiaj> doubletwist: I guess I'm surprised they are suggesting using /usr/share/keyring on that wiki, but that is there suggestion. Guess it is as good as any.
2625[19:40:26] <doubletwist> Actually I'm starting to think I'd be better off doing it differently on the salt side aptpkg.add_repo_key might be a better path for me
2626[19:40:29] <somiaj> s/there/their/
2627[19:41:37] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2628[19:42:43] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
2644[19:49:19] <jozefk_2> hi. I messed up my initramfs it seems. Or the grup. Whatever is used for booting the system. I tried to install drivers for USB WiFi dongle and things didn't go well after reboot. I ended up in initramfs prompt. Is there a way to fix that somehow?
2678[19:59:06] <jjoeshua> just share link where to register
2679[19:59:14] <greycat> If you need help registering with nickserv, beyond what "/msg nickserv help" says, go ask in #freenode.
2680[19:59:21] <ratrace> ah with that? ok... replaced-url
2681[19:59:29] <BloatHunter> The color-helper has a 404'd URL that is http, also the tls cert seems to be for a birth hypnosis website: gsettings get org.freedesktop.ColorHelper profile-upload-uri
2846[20:54:45] <Mazhive_one> guys i dont know what happen ery strang i have a enp4s0 dev up but my networking service failes to startup but it has local network how is that possible ,according to systemctl status : ifup[9181]: ifup: failed to bring up eth0 but i do not have a eth0 yet a enp4s0 if i down the device yet i have still connection ??
2853[20:59:42] <Mazhive_one> i must confess i think i installed it recently just yesterday i had to down my computer due to power outage so this could be a result of installing network manager..
2906[21:37:03] <fuxxy> I'm running Deluge on a machine with two network cards. I've bound the user 'deluged' to one of the NICs, but DNS queries are still being sent to the top DNS resolver in /etc/resolv.conf. Is there a way I can force DNS queries to a specific nameserver, like I did with the interfaces?
2916[21:44:46] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2917[21:45:45] <gp5st__> I'm having trouble finding information on this. Does debian run on an STM32 board? I was thinking specifically of an 32F746GDISCOVERY but my searching skills don't seem up to the task
2935[21:55:23] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Well, I'd just comment everything and restart the network manager service then add a configuration for the interface.
2949[21:58:02] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I think it's NetworkManager.service
2950[21:58:07] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> (For some reason capitalized)
2951[21:58:29] <Mazhive> yep thanx
2952[21:59:29] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> If you cannot use the machine without an online connection, get it provisioned with two interfaces, and start with only commenting out one of them and having it managed by network-manager, then the second once you're sure the first works.
2966[22:03:02] <fission6> i need to install `apt-get install postgresql-10-repack` but its not available inside of a docker container, so i am trying to be as precise as possible and add it to the image
3065[23:14:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Can a route have ipv4 & ipv6 hops?
3066[23:14:51] <somiaj> I think the suggestion you were given was to use the version from backports. So if you have backports in your sources.list 'apt-get -t buster-backports install torbrowser-launcher'
3067[23:15:51] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: if you still get some python errors with that, maybe paste the output of the command you ran and the errors at someplace like paste.debian.net
3070[23:17:23] <L0aD1nG> somiaj: i have it in my list and i thought it was setted to select backports first but in my /etc/apt/prefferences was still "wheezy-backports"...
3076[23:18:51] <L0aD1nG> somiaj: why? i thought is for newer and stable packages..
3077[23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1550
3078[23:19:06] <BloatHunter> so just pin the package
3079[23:19:16] <L0aD1nG> i will delete it then okay
3080[23:19:21] <BloatHunter> this is seriously a solved problem
3081[23:19:32] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: part of debian stability is a frozen system that has undergone a lot of testing. Backport packages do not have this testing. In addition backport packages don't have security support.
3084[23:19:54] <BloatHunter> did you read what the package does
3085[23:20:29] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: backport packages are provided for users who need newer versions than provided by debian stable. In practice one should only install the package backports they need (not just get any backport that is avialble).
3106[23:24:29] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3107[23:24:37] <L0aD1nG> it askes for a object instead of a string
3108[23:24:53] <somiaj> user217217: no debian allows you to install one of many desktops. There isn't a special kde one, you can can choose to install KDE during the install.
3109[23:25:00] *** Quits: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
3126[23:30:42] <L0aD1nG> somiaj: if i am not mistaken the error is both either from stable or backports
3127[23:30:57] <L0aD1nG> cause i installed it from both and the error remains
3128[23:31:26] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: Can't find any info regarding this issue, but some suggestion I have seen. you could try 'torbrowser-launcher --settings' see if you can force it to redownload things. You might also want to remove the local cache of files in $HOME.
3130[23:31:55] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: one thing you could test is create a new user, log into X with that new user, and run torbrowser-launcher, this will let you know there is some issue in the $HOME dir of your current user.
3131[23:32:50] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3132[23:33:14] <L0aD1nG> torbrowser-launcher --settings is throwing the same error i posted
3133[23:33:39] <Gerula> I'm on debian xfce, and sometimes vlc goes to 100% cpu usage and the system is unusable. I switch to a different tty, kill vlc but then when I go back there's only the cursor. if I kill any other process X restarts the session. I looked into earlyoom and installed it but it doesn't make a difference. What would be a correct way to handle this problem?
3135[23:34:05] <L0aD1nG> i ll just stick out with the set up of tor browser i had. I just wanted to see if i can have via the repos so have no external programs installed at all
3136[23:34:30] <L0aD1nG> now for the tor-browser i can do an exception
3137[23:34:53] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: I didn't see any bug report about your issue, so I would try to see if a user with a clean $HOME still has this problem.
3138[23:35:33] <L0aD1nG> i am about to sleep now do you want me to do it tommorow?
3153[23:40:20] <somiaj> should be, though instead of delete you can move it somewhere else (As a backup) in case you want (or need) to change other thigns from the default.
3154[23:41:32] <L0aD1nG> okay. thank you so much for the help!
3155[23:41:53] *** Quits: Twemlow (~exodus@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)