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94[00:12:10] <annadane> nooo
95[00:12:15] <annadane> greycat changed his logoff message
96[00:12:20] <annadane> everything is ruined
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108[00:17:26] <kingsley__> Can you recommend video conferencing that's
109[00:17:31] <kingsley__> 1.) open source
110[00:17:37] <kingsley__> 2.) packaged for debian
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112[00:17:57] <kingsley__> 3.) encrypts traffic and
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114[00:18:20] <kingsley__> 4.) is easy to install and use, particularly for Windows users?
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117[00:19:26] <trek00> kingsley__: for 1-3 tox chat, but i don't know if it's easy to install
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120[00:19:52] <tds> jitsi meet is packaged for debian, but in their own repos, not directly in debian's
121[00:20:03] <trek00> qtox on debian
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123[00:22:19] <kingsley__> trek00: I'm researching qtox now. Through no fault of yours, I failed to mention that it should be able to connect at least 4 people.
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125[00:23:11] <Allain> riot ?
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127[00:23:39] <colinmr> jitsi doesn't work well just saying
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132[00:24:54] <trek00> kingsley__: i don't know if i can make group video calls
133[00:24:55] <kingsley__> q
134[00:25:17] <kingsley__> Oops! Sorry. I accidentally typed "q" in the wrong window.
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139[00:25:39] <annadane> Quite.
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142[00:26:49] <Unit193> For meeting type things I've used mumble, which doesn't fit your needs as it's audio-only (but rather good, actually.)
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149[00:29:14] <FUtz> hey guys anyone can help me in shellscript ?
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151[00:29:18] <FUtz> replaced-url
152[00:29:32] <FUtz> i need do it
153[00:29:51] <FUtz> only one "read"
154[00:30:00] <FUtz> its possible? :S
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158[00:30:46] <trek00> FUtz: if i understand, you need a way to convert 2.3.5x to 2.3.5?
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171[00:32:22] <FUtz> trek00
172[00:32:25] <FUtz> replaced-url
173[00:32:40] <FUtz> i need download from here
174[00:32:50] <FUtz> but have folders
175[00:33:09] <FUtz> site/source/old/[versions]/file
176[00:33:49] <FUtz> I would not like to use two "read"
177[00:34:00] <trek00> FUtz: DIR=$(echo $VER | sed 's/$[0-9]\+\.[0-9]\+\.[0-9]\+$.*/\1/')
178[00:34:00] <FUtz> just one, is possible?
179[00:34:27] <FUtz> oh my god
180[00:34:30] <FUtz> :O
181[00:34:45] <FUtz> i will try , wait
182[00:36:22] <FUtz> oh my god
183[00:36:26] <FUtz> oh my god
184[00:36:29] <FUtz> thank you very much :D
185[00:36:31] <trek00> it's ok?
186[00:36:33] <trek00> good :)
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189[00:36:52] <FUtz> you are amazing :D
190[00:36:59] <trek00> :)
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200[00:46:06] <kingsley__> Allain: Is riot packaged for debian? If so, what is it called?
201[00:47:15] <annadane> seems not to be from a quick apt search
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203[00:47:27] <annadane> the riot chat thing, anyway, i assume that's what is meant
204[00:47:34] <joepublic> riot-web is not packaged in debian
205[00:48:57] <joepublic> riot provides instructions, use at your risk. replaced-url
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233[01:10:16] <Akuw> i just installed debian in new laptop, but when screen saver start, screen is black and there is now way to use Ctrl+Alt+F1
234[01:10:31] <Akuw> of any other
235[01:10:38] <Akuw> never seen that
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237[01:10:47] <Akuw> Thinkpad P53s
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240[01:11:55] <trek00> Akuw: ctrl+alt+f2 too i guess
241[01:13:20] <trek00> Akuw: may be blindly typing this command will bring up again the monitor? xset dpms force on
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252[01:22:36] <aleph-> trek00: Yeah looking at the postint script, it doesn't do anything to ensure it restarts. Maybe it's because there's a sysvinit script under /etc/init.d/ is what causes the restart after upgrade? Yet querying system limits on the restarted processes, and they've inherited system limits I only designate in the systemd service file... So this is odd...
253[01:25:14] <groovygravy49> hello I am having some confusion as to where to back up files to. I have a root partition that keeps getting crammed because of backing up files to a hdd. It is probably an easy solution but I can't seem to figure it out.
254[01:25:16] <trek00> aleph-: i'm not familiar with systemd, sorry, with init scripts the package needed to restart the service after upgrade
255[01:25:24] <groovygravy49> replaced-url
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258[01:26:43] <trek00> aleph-: checking cron pacakge postinst it needs to restart also with systemd
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260[01:26:53] <aleph-> trek00: Perfectly alright, just such a weird situation....
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266[01:29:12] <trek00> groovygravy49: ideally you would backup on another disk, so if one disk fails you have the backup on the other
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269[01:29:46] <Akuw> found the way
270[01:30:09] <Akuw> i have to press Fn+Ctrl+Alt
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272[01:30:29] <Akuw> how can install wifi drivers now?
273[01:30:56] <groovygravy49> @trek00 thats what Im trying to do. However the root partition on the non backup gets full from each backup.
274[01:31:09] <groovygravy49> trek00 if that makes sense
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282[01:33:17] <trek00> groovygravy49: if /media/user/22ca..... is on another disk, i can't figure why the root partition gets ful
283[01:33:53] <trek00> Akuw: it depends by the hardware may be lspci will show you the exact model of the wifi adapter
284[01:33:54] <groovygravy49> trek00 yeah /media/user/ is the hdd
285[01:34:11] <groovygravy49> external
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288[01:34:44] <trek00> groovygravy49: rsync simply copy things from the source to destination, so the source should not grow
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290[01:35:02] <lwp> groovygravy49, can you show us some output illustrating what you mean about the root getting full ?
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292[01:36:05] <Akuw> Intel Corporation Cannon Point-LP CNVi
293[01:36:26] <Akuw> but to install i need just install .deb file?
294[01:36:28] <Akuw> package
295[01:36:32] *** Quits: InvisibleRasta (~Invisible@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
296[01:36:40] <WoC`> dpkg -ivh <file>
297[01:36:40] <dpkg> bugger all, i dunno, WoC`
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299[01:37:11] <dvs> !iwlwifi
300[01:37:12] <dpkg> The iwlwifi Linux kernel driver supports several Intel 802.11n (WiFi Link, Wireless-N, Advanced-N, Ultimate-N) and 802.11ac adapters. Firmware is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-iwlwifi package to provide. Supported devices and troubleshooting hints are listed at replaced-url
301[01:37:28] <trek00> Akuw: may be you need the firmware
302[01:38:15] <Akuw> where can i get the firmware
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304[01:38:25] <Akuw> replaced-url
305[01:38:27] <Akuw> there
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308[01:38:49] <Akuw> i downloaded that
309[01:38:56] <trek00> Akuw: jessie is your debian version?
310[01:39:23] <Akuw> no, Debian 10
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313[01:39:28] <trek00> ok
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317[01:40:25] <trek00> Akuw: this package replaced-url
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321[01:42:21] <Akuw> installed
322[01:42:44] <Akuw> now what
323[01:43:15] <trek00> Akuw: well, this should bring up your driver: modprobe iwlwifi
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325[01:44:19] <trek00> Akuw: and then you could configure it with your preferred method (with network-manager, wicd, interfaces file or manually)
326[01:44:51] <Akuw> what package is modprobe ?
327[01:45:01] <Akuw> command not found
328[01:45:12] <deego> kmod
329[01:45:16] <trek00> Akuw: you need to run it as root
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331[01:45:38] <Akuw> no output
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333[01:46:02] <trek00> Akuw: it's good
334[01:46:30] <groovygravy49> @lwp hope this helps. The externall hdd is no mounted. I just deleted all the files I recently backed up to it and it "cleared" 40% of the root partition. However this will dissipate once I back up again. Before: replaced-url
335[01:46:38] <trek00> Akuw: it should printed something in the logs, it should be ready to be configured
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337[01:47:27] <trek00> groovygravy49: if it is not mounted, you are actually writing to the root partition
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339[01:48:27] <groovygravy49> @lwp maybe im not using rsync right. No I backed up the files of course when the hdd was mounted duh. But there is a "copy" of the backup that is stored in root.
340[01:48:45] <groovygravy49> @lwp which is redundant
341[01:49:35] <trek00> groovygravy49: where that copy is stored? under which directory?
342[01:50:16] <groovygravy49> trek00 /media/user/22ca..... is where the copy is stored
343[01:50:57] <trek00> groovygravy49: well probably you done an rsync when /media/user/22ca... whas not mounted
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351[01:58:56] <groovygravy49> trek00 wiping the whole drive clean and starting over. Will let you know . Thanks
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360[02:01:22] <trek00> groovygravy49: when you mount a partition on top of a directory, then you write on that partition, but if you don't mount you write directly in that directory (on the root fs)
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368[02:04:02] <groovygravy49> trek00 how can I determine which directory to mount to? I am kinda ignorant to how it works. The hdd "just" mounts.
369[02:04:41] <trek00> groovygravy49: well you have installed something that automount disks
370[02:05:07] <groovygravy49> @trek00 how do you personally mount drives
371[02:05:39] <trek00> groovygravy49: you just need to check on which directory it was automounted and then rsync to that directory
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373[02:05:56] <trek00> groovygravy49: using the mount command, but automount is more user friendly
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379[02:08:40] <groovygravy49> @trek00 the drive probably automounts to root thats the problem
380[02:09:52] <trek00> groovygravy49: plug in the disk and then do a df and it will show where it is mounted
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521[03:43:49] <someone934> What is the help channel question mark
522[03:43:56] <someone934> Where}
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531[03:50:27] <WoC`> someone934, help channel for ?
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533[03:54:41] <tomg> someone934, you're in the help channel
534[03:54:50] <tomg> !ask
535[03:54:50] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
536[03:55:12] <someone934> I have a problem with the Debian-Installer for Windows 10, I installed for experimental testing and now after I deleted a Debian partition on my computer Windows doesn't boot, instead, the Debian install loads. I tried to mount the windows partition in a live CD but it says that its hibernating.
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538[03:55:53] <BazookaTooth> you can clear that flag
539[03:56:09] <BazookaTooth> just not going to get into it cuz it's not a debian thing
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543[03:59:20] <BazookaTooth> xy problem
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547[04:02:02] <someone934> Its more a Debian thing that a windows thing
548[04:03:35] <BazookaTooth> debian seems to be working. what about your windows?
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553[04:05:29] <BazookaTooth> look up how to clear the flag and repair your bootloader
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558[04:08:19] <rocketmagnet> gb8
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566[04:10:48] <geof270_> help set up shared folder xubuntu 18.04 host to VB linuxMint 19.02 guest
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571[04:13:37] <someone934> BazookaTooth ill try, thank you
572[04:14:00] <mspe> geof270_ lol
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577[04:19:03] <ectospasm> geof270_: this is #debian, why do you think it's appropriate to ask about Ubuntu or Mint in this channel?
578[04:19:34] <geof270_> packages are debian
579[04:19:39] <ectospasm> geof270_: you might have better luck in #virtualbox
580[04:19:50] <geof270_> thanks
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582[04:20:09] <ectospasm> geof270_: That's because Ubuntu and Mint are derived from Debian, but they're different enough this is the wrong place to ask.
583[04:20:32] <ectospasm> geof270_: That's like asking in #fedora how to get OpenSuSE working because they both use RPM.
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586[04:21:56] <BazookaTooth> dpkg has a trigger for derivatives..
587[04:21:56] <dpkg> BazookaTooth: have you tried replaced-url
588[04:22:09] <BazookaTooth> yes you silly bot
589[04:22:29] <ectospasm> Is tldp even being updated anymore?
590[04:22:52] <BazookaTooth> don't think so but still a thing
591[04:22:57] <BazookaTooth> !not-debian
592[04:23:08] <BazookaTooth> can't recall his trigger
593[04:23:16] <ectospasm> I've found the Arch wiki to be more relevant, to be honest (this laptop is running Arch, but a lot of it is useful for other distros)
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595[04:23:40] <BazookaTooth> just don't ask in the arch channel
596[04:23:53] <BazookaTooth> :D
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598[04:25:15] <ectospasm> Not if you're asking about Debian (or one of its myriad of derivatives!)
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602[04:26:56] <BazookaTooth> !debian based
603[04:26:57] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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605[04:27:12] <BazookaTooth> other guy, not you
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607[04:28:07] <ectospasm> I get it! geof270_ ^
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612[04:28:36] <ectospasm> Same goes for any distro, really. If you really don't know where to ask, you can always try ##linux.
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614[04:29:10] <BazookaTooth> ectospasm: you might be surprised. manjaro even tells people not to bother arch and it's the first place they end up because manjaro is "based on arch"
615[04:29:29] <BazookaTooth> same here with mint
616[04:29:46] <annadane> hi how can i install pacman in debian ????????????????????????????????????????????????????
617[04:29:52] <BazookaTooth> hehe
618[04:29:53] <ectospasm> BazookaTooth: Oh, I know, I'm in #archlinux too
619[04:29:53] <annadane> ive herd its kool
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621[04:30:08] <annadane> *that* is an active channel
622[04:30:10] <adeel> hey everyone...i'm having a bit of a challenge trying to remember/figure out why a pci-e ssd that's slotted in (and lights up and all) is not being recognized in either the dmesg or lspci output....any tips on what to check/look for?
623[04:30:11] <annadane> i've lurked occasionally
624[04:30:13] <ectospasm> The problem is #manjaro is either dead or clueless, not sure which is worse.
625[04:30:13] <BazookaTooth> pacman does work on debian btw
626[04:30:18] <ectospasm> !ot
627[04:30:18] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
628[04:30:21] <BazookaTooth> both really
629[04:30:22] <annadane> does it? huh
630[04:30:33] <BazookaTooth> yup
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632[04:30:54] <BazookaTooth> you know how alien works with rpm?
633[04:30:56] <BazookaTooth> similar
634[04:31:12] <BazookaTooth> there are ways to get stuff working
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667[04:53:30] <trek001> adeel: may be the bios?
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694[05:19:32] <adeel> trek001: checking that now...don't see anything overly wrong, but lets see
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704[05:27:18] <Unit193> annadane: Actually someone did want to do that at some point, but never completed: #511994
705[05:27:20] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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714[05:32:32] <annadane> i have no idea how you'd do that, if packages were made for apt-get; but then i guess i lack imagination
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716[05:33:12] <ritzton> Hello
717[05:33:15] <annadane> hi
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723[05:35:17] <ritzton> intel wont patch older cpu like core 2 duo for spectre flaws so my question is should we throw those computers to the trash ?
724[05:35:46] <trek001> ritzton: linux has protections on these cpus
725[05:36:25] <trek001> ritzton: they are only slower than advertised
726[05:36:54] <ritzton> trek001: so why spectre-meltdown-checker says they are vulnerable ?
727[05:37:44] <ritzton> trek001: can you find any article saying older cpu like core 2 duo are safe with spectre attacks ?
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729[05:38:49] <trek001> ritzton: you can check yourself with: rgrep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities
730[05:39:13] <annadane> how does everyone know which grep to use?
731[05:39:47] <trek001> ritzton: some mitigation are disabled by default, because of too much slowness
732[05:40:06] <ritzton> trek001: it will probably says it is vulnerable doing this command, I don't get your point
733[05:40:27] <trek001> annadane: like rgrep?
734[05:40:59] <trek001> ritzton: vulnerable but mitigated
735[05:41:10] <trek001> ritzton: if you have an updated linux kernel
736[05:41:13] <BazookaTooth> annadane: vanilla 'grep' is always there on every system so..
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738[05:41:52] <ritzton> trek001: mitigated does not mean safe right ?
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740[05:42:06] <trek001> ritzton: actually it means safe
741[05:42:27] <trek001> ritzton: for example on this cpu for spectre_v2 it says: Mitigation: Full AMD retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling
742[05:43:47] <annadane> yeah rgrep, egrep and so on
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744[05:43:57] <annadane> it's probably in man grep, i'm just lazy, i'll read the thing
745[05:44:25] <ritzton> trek001: what about SSB variant 4 ?
746[05:44:33] <trek001> ritzton: it means this is not fully safe, because STIBP is disabled, but it is really relevant on an host with untrusted guests VM
747[05:45:06] <trek001> ritzton: usually the mitigation on ssb is disabled by default, but you can enable it
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749[05:45:50] <trek001> annadane: rgrep is recursive grep, you can write also grep -r and egrep is like grep -E
750[05:46:19] <annadane> ah gotcha
751[05:48:45] <ritzton> trek001: what do you have for : less /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spec_store_bypass ?
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754[05:49:29] <trek001> ritzton: if you enable full mitigation you are safe even with older cpus, you only got scammed by intel, which advertised much more performances than you will get once all security bugs are mitigated
755[05:49:56] <trek001> ritzton: on this cpu it says: Mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
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757[05:50:58] <ritzton> trek001: and what about if it says only "Vulnerable" ?
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759[05:51:26] <trek001> ritzton: probably you have an old kernel?
760[05:51:47] <ritzton> trek001: not debian 10 updated
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762[05:52:02] <ritzton> I mean the kernel is not old
763[05:52:08] <trek001> ritzton: well, which cpu?
764[05:52:40] <ritzton> core 2 duo
765[05:53:45] <trek001> ritzton: i guest there is no microcode update for this?
766[05:53:49] <trek001> guess
767[05:54:28] <ritzton> trek001: yes that's what I am saying since the beginning "intel wont patch older cpu like core 2 duo for spectre flaws so my question is should we throw those computers to the trash ?"
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769[05:55:27] <trek001> ritzton: try to boot with this kernel command line added: spec_store_bypass_disable=on
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775[06:00:11] <ritzton> trek001: i will try to see if it changes anything
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777[06:03:24] <ritzton> trek001: why do you have it disable if you never added any parameters ?
778[06:04:04] <joepublic> if anyone is throwing computers away because they are unhappy with the output of the `lscpu` command, please consult me for a shipping address.
779[06:04:22] <trek001> because the speculative store bypass is a feature of your cpu that you want to disable for full mitigation (but do you really need to mitigate that specific bug?)
780[06:05:05] <trek001> joepublic: :D
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782[06:05:44] <ritzton> trek001: I am just trying to understand why you have it disabled and not a fresh debian install ?
783[06:05:49] <ryouma> folding at home could use it for covid
784[06:06:26] <ritzton> joepublic: spectre attacks are not a joke, you should take it more seriously
785[06:06:31] <trek001> ritzton: may be something related to microcode and cpu model
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788[06:06:56] <BazookaTooth> annadane: those are usually aliases anyway
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790[06:07:48] <joepublic> I was not joking.
791[06:07:59] <annadane> i have my grep aliased to grep -i
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794[06:08:56] <BazookaTooth> i only mention because there are past distros that made zsh friendly scripts rather than assuming bash
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796[06:09:05] <ritzton> trek001: ok you probably have a more recent cpu that's why...
797[06:09:30] <trek001> ritzton: yes, with updated microcode and it's an amd
798[06:10:16] <ritzton> with updated microcode on core 2 duo, it is still written Vulnerable but I am going to try the parameter you said
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800[06:11:21] <joepublic> for my application, many CPU vulnerabilities are less relevant.
801[06:11:56] <annadane> i don't even bother with mv -i or rm -i but grep -i? all over that, one of the first things i set up
802[06:12:47] <ritzton> joepublic: if you only run your own code yes but it means no javascript website etc...
803[06:13:07] <BazookaTooth> annadane: kinda like the '-i' alias
804[06:13:15] <joepublic> I am building a game room full of emulated arcade machines.
805[06:13:23] *** Quits: flygoat (~sys@replaced-ip) (Quit: Go fishing)
806[06:13:47] <joepublic> They will not have Internet access, much less 'javascript websites'
807[06:14:06] *** Quits: polyphem (~p0lyph3m@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
808[06:14:12] <BazookaTooth> annadane: skeleton bashrc for debian is a nice bit to learn from though
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810[06:15:33] <joepublic> There are many applications for such hardware other than "throwing it away" because you don't like the vulnerability report.
811[06:16:27] <BazookaTooth> when stoned was here, he had some nice examples of fucntions to drop in bashrc rather than making aliases. might want to find his gitlab or whatever he's using lately
812[06:16:53] <annadane> i don't trust stoners
813[06:17:08] <joepublic> I like to make my bash functions explicitly state that they are bash functions so I don't drive myself nuts looking for the executable
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815[06:18:19] <BazookaTooth> i don't trust people who make blanket statements about others but to each their own
816[06:18:22] <binaryhermit> a lot of those vulnerabilities aren't even all that terrible in practice
817[06:18:45] <annadane> i just said that to make a stupid joke
818[06:18:49] <binaryhermit> like, it's easier to exploit (long list of software bugs your system has) than the HW bugs
819[06:18:50] <annadane> no basis in reality
820[06:19:02] <trek001> joepublic: you can know if it is a function with: type commandname
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822[06:19:43] <binaryhermit> but if you're computer's never online, the mitigations to those bugs are likely harmful due to decreased performance for no real benefit?
823[06:19:49] <annadane> and then there's stuff like PSP which is its own category
824[06:19:54] <annadane> PSP/IME
825[06:21:20] <BazookaTooth> a decent portion of that shit doesn't even apply to systems attached to a soho router
826[06:21:26] <joepublic> binaryhermit, I would guess if you feel better having the bugs mitigated, that's a real benefit, even if the chance of their being a viable exploit is low.
827[06:21:34] <joepublic> *if one feels better
828[06:22:08] <binaryhermit> true, I suppose (bites tongue on the rest of this)
829[06:22:21] <trek001> BazookaTooth: if you run javascript, there is no soho router that can help you :)
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831[06:22:46] <ritzton> trek001: I added the parameter to the grub command on a machin, I have reload grub and then I have reboot, it is still writing "Vulnerable" with core 2 duo
832[06:22:49] <joepublic> I would consider a deliberate slowdown harmful on an isolated system.
833[06:22:51] <BazookaTooth> why do i feel like i am back in #security all of a sudden
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835[06:23:24] <trek001> ritzton: well probably it really needs an updated microcode
836[06:23:25] <BazookaTooth> tin foil hats for all
837[06:24:23] <binaryhermit> I suspect something as old as a core2duo hasn't gotten new microcode in quite a while
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840[06:25:48] <BazookaTooth> airgap it, wrap it in a portable faraday cage then drop it in the trash and upgrade
841[06:26:27] <ritzton> trek001: intel-microcode is already installed...
842[06:26:56] <BazookaTooth> the lower tdp on an i3 laptop would probably pay itself off anyway
843[06:26:59] <ritzton> is debian community able to do something against intel leaks ?
844[06:27:00] <trek001> ritzton: yep but probably intel not released an updated microcode for that cpu
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846[06:28:01] <binaryhermit> the last core2 chip released was in January 2010
847[06:29:05] <trek001> binaryhermit: intel cpus have a "best before" label like food? :D
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849[06:29:33] <binaryhermit> at some point they just stop updating stuff
850[06:29:37] <ritzton> binaryhermit: well I agree with this but does that mean we have to throw away (not on the trash for joepublic) all computers before 2010 ?
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852[06:30:00] <binaryhermit> ritzton: either deal with potential hw bugs or buy something newer
853[06:30:15] <joepublic> that sounds suspiciously like a "yes"
854[06:30:18] <binaryhermit> it's likely not that big of a deal
855[06:30:39] <joepublic> "yes, but don't worry about it" lol
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859[06:31:11] <ritzton> we do worry about security otherwise we would be using microsoft products
860[06:31:29] <binaryhermit> *facepalm*
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862[06:31:54] <binaryhermit> there's likely other more easily exploitable SW issues anyway
863[06:32:22] <annadane> i will steal ur warez
864[06:32:27] <binaryhermit> that as far as I can tell, nobody's really ever bothered to exploit any of these bugs in the wild
865[06:32:30] <annadane> sorry i'm extremely bored and sleepy
866[06:32:51] <binaryhermit> except possibly various three letter agencies, and if they want to get you, you're probably ****ed anyway
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868[06:33:04] <trek001> binaryhermit: yes but sw can be upgraded, if hw can't that exploit is more valuable as it will continue to run fine for long time
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870[06:33:46] <binaryhermit> I wonder if anyone ever exploited the pentium f00f HCF bug
871[06:33:50] <ritzton> binaryhermit: replaced-url
872[06:33:57] <trek001> binaryhermit: yeah! via ping!
873[06:34:11] <trek001> the ping of death :D
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875[06:35:36] <binaryhermit> ritzton: as far as I can tell, no core2 chips are listed as vulnerable
876[06:36:00] <ritzton> binaryhermit: maybe three letter agencies are more dangerous than mexican mafia
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878[06:37:00] <ritzton> binaryhermit: where did you get this information from ?
879[06:37:29] <binaryhermit> ritzton: replaced-url
880[06:37:51] <ritzton> binaryhermit: but maybe you are working yourself for this 3 letters agency right ?
881[06:37:53] <binaryhermit> it lists a bunch of processors
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883[06:38:44] <binaryhermit> and that's listed as vaguely on the low-end of the "medium" CVSS range
884[06:38:59] <binaryhermit> and probably can be mitigated by the kernel if you really care
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886[06:39:51] <ritzton> isn't replaced-url
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888[06:40:20] <trek001> replaced-url
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891[06:40:44] <binaryhermit> I'm pretty sure that core2 != 2nd gen intel core
892[06:41:01] <binaryhermit> the first gen intel core was when they switched to the core i(something) branding
893[06:41:23] <trek001> binaryhermit: core 2 duo is 2nd generation replaced-url
894[06:42:22] <ritzton> trek001: forget about it probably he is working for 3 letters agency :-)
895[06:42:29] <binaryhermit> trek001: Except they didn't switch to (number) gen core until they went to the core i-whatever crap
896[06:42:58] <trek001> ritzton: don't be paranoid, he only says his own opinion
897[06:43:45] <ritzton> trek001: an american opinion right
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900[06:45:09] <trek001> ritzton: as last chance you can disable javascript, that is ok with many sites
901[06:45:19] <jm_> heh you wish
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904[06:45:51] <trek001> my main browser has javascript disabled since years :)
905[06:46:03] <ritzton> trek001: well nowdays most of the websites require javascript and use stuff like websockets...
906[06:46:41] <trek001> ritzton: may be you need to buy another cpu, better not an intel :)
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908[06:46:51] <binaryhermit> replaced-url
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911[06:47:07] <trek001> ritzton: you can find cpu for 30$ fast as your old core 2 duo
912[06:47:16] <binaryhermit> notice the mention of core i3, core i5, core i7 but not core2
913[06:47:26] <BazookaTooth> uh
914[06:47:32] <ritzton> trek001: yeah I will probably have to throw all the company computer with this cpu
915[06:48:19] <BazookaTooth> you guys don't recycle them into new money for future systems and maintenance?
916[06:48:43] <BazookaTooth> core2 is so far from core i3
917[06:49:26] <ritzton> trek001: that's probably true for desktop computers but not for labtops
918[06:49:27] <binaryhermit> right, I'm saying that "second gen intel core" != "core 2"
919[06:49:38] <trek001> binaryhermit: yeah intel names are recycled everytime
920[06:50:12] <binaryhermit> that "second gen intel core" is "second gen of processors since intel went to core i-whatever branding"
921[06:50:22] <binaryhermit> they really need to cut it with that stuff
922[06:50:27] <ritzton> bazookatooth: some companies will take all valuable metals and throw the rest away
923[06:50:30] <binaryhermit> like, look what they did with the pentium brand
924[06:50:36] <binaryhermit> used to be high-end
925[06:50:45] <binaryhermit> now it's vaguely mid-range
926[06:50:56] <binaryhermit> between celeron and core i3 or whatever
927[06:50:59] <BazookaTooth> ritzton: better than scrap heap
928[06:51:40] <binaryhermit> I really think ritzton needs to stop being so paranoid
929[06:51:49] <binaryhermit> That the bugs can be mitigated in software
930[06:52:05] <binaryhermit> not that there's really much of a need to
931[06:52:31] <ritzton> binaryhermit: your agency found out other variant ?
932[06:52:44] <binaryhermit> I don't work for any governmental agency
933[06:53:08] <binaryhermit> Not that, say, qualcomm is much better than intel on the branding front
934[06:54:01] <binaryhermit> like, the pixel 3a with a snapdragon 670 vaguely outperforms the pixel with a snapdragon 821
935[06:54:05] <trek001> binaryhermit: that ssb needs microcode update
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937[06:54:38] <binaryhermit> that said, it's not that surprising that a 2 year or so newer midrange chip outperforms a flagship chip
938[06:54:43] <binaryhermit> "ssb"?
939[06:55:09] <binaryhermit> but just, the numbers are kinda arbitrary
940[06:55:17] <lwp> single side band
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943[06:55:57] <trek001> binaryhermit: speculative store bypass
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950[07:05:26] <trek001> ritzton: for just 20$ you can get an a4-4000 with integrated graphics :)
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984[07:30:25] <tyzef> Hi guys !!! I am on debian10buster... and on Buster we do not have "python-uniconvertor", however it's available on Sid ! and I need to install only that one "python-uniconvertor" please can you guide me?
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990[07:34:02] <jm_> tyzef: it has also been removed from sid
991[07:34:21] <tyzef> aayyyooooo!
992[07:35:35] <tyzef> so sad... my Inkscape crash because of no python-uniconvertor
993[07:35:45] <tyzef> when I do a copy
994[07:35:59] <tyzef> it's Inkscape0.92
995[07:36:18] <jm_> judd, bug rm python-uniconvertor
996[07:36:21] <judd> Bug replaced-url
997[07:36:25] <tyzef> I am also looking in #inkscape
998[07:36:45] <jm_> so it does not work with python 3 it seems
999[07:36:46] <tyzef> thanks jm_
1000[07:36:50] <jm_> np
1001[07:37:04] <jm_> tyzef: have you also looked at inscape bugs if there's something there?
1002[07:37:25] <tyzef> not yet, haven't think about that !
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1009[07:44:10] <tyzef> thank you jm_ for guidance, see !replaced-url
1010[07:44:25] <tyzef> by the way I am on Lzqt
1011[07:45:52] <tyzef> yaa super ! I just quit "qlipper" and it work !
1012[07:46:03] <tyzef> thanks !
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1018[07:51:39] * sahag Hey all
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1070[08:19:50] <dynek> Hello guys! No much hope but I have an Intel Nuc onto which kernel 5.3.13 was running with cpu governor powersave, I could see the frequency vary and it used to remain pretty low. I update to 5.3.18 and not 5.4.24 and on both version the cpu gets quite hot because the frequencies of the cores are at their maximum even though governor is still set. Does it right a bell? Any known issue I haven't found so
1071[08:19:56] <dynek> far? Thanks
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1078[08:23:28] <diogenes_> dynek, maybe it's some process using all that CPU?
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1080[08:25:50] <dynek> diogenes_: nothing changed much process and load wise before / after and load average: 1.48, 1.94, 2.30
1081[08:25:54] <jm_> dynek: which scaling_driver is selected?
1082[08:26:21] <dynek> jm_: intel_pstate
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1084[08:27:21] <sney> fwiw, there's no 5.3.x or 5.4.24 in any debian release right now. is there a reason you're targeting these versions specifically?
1085[08:27:46] <dynek> sney: proxmox
1086[08:28:07] <dynek> and network issue with kernel prior 5.4.x something
1087[08:28:08] <sney> ah, well, who knows what they're up to
1088[08:28:56] <sney> definitely take your modified kernel issue to the channel belonging to the group that modified it
1089[08:29:04] <jm_> dynek: same here and scaling_governor is powersave and it adjusts freq. as expected, haven't tried 5.x yet, but will upgrade one of these days
1090[08:30:02] <dynek> jm_: which kernel version?
1091[08:31:32] <jm_> dynek: 4.19 still
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1094[08:34:34] <dynek> gonna try a rollback to 5.3.13 and see if it goes back to what it used to be
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1134[09:10:45] <CruX|> hello, can you recommend eeprom memory tester which is accessible via /sys/.../eeprom ? (i'm using my own driver based on at25 driver) I want to test random unaligned reads/writes
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1136[09:10:48] <CruX|> most of tools is ysing mmap which can't be used
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1155[09:25:03] <Pitron_Cresse> Bonjour
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1161[09:28:18] <Haohmaru> je nes schprachen ze italiano
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1220[10:06:55] <nvz> o.O
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1224[10:11:52] <DarkiJah> So how do I registrer a channel?
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1226[10:12:31] <DarkiJah> And should it be ## or # ?
1227[10:12:35] <nvz> DarkiJah: well thats not on topic here, but rather than contemplate the mispelled frisian above..
1228[10:12:53] <DarkiJah> Ohhh, wrong channel!!! :D
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1230[10:13:00] <nvz> DarkiJah: what is it you're trying to accomplish? channels dont really need /registration/
1231[10:13:03] <DarkiJah> I thought I was in.....
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1233[10:13:16] <DarkiJah> Freenode
1234[10:13:40] <DarkiJah> Well, I think there was something about registrering a channel - so I always have it even if I'm not there.
1235[10:14:02] <DarkiJah> I had my first person come through my website and ask me a Question
1236[10:14:12] <nvz> thats setting guard, so chanserv sits there keeping the topic and crap in place when the channel empties
1237[10:14:15] <DarkiJah> So I guess I need to get moving on setting things up
1238[10:14:29] <DarkiJah> Freenode runs that?
1239[10:14:40] <mzajc> yes
1240[10:14:55] <DarkiJah> Yea, well I guess I need to setup that then :)
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1242[10:15:14] <mzajc> ./msg chanserv help
1243[10:15:45] <nvz> DarkiJah: /msg chanserv help set guard
1244[10:16:07] <DarkiJah> Yea that was something of the thing I was looking for
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1247[10:17:05] <DarkiJah> So, the question is should my channel be one # or ##
1248[10:17:08] <nvz> DarkiJah: when you /join a channel that doesnt exist it is created and you are given the founding rights to it.. if the channel empties, the topic, entrymsg, access lists and everything can be lost.. to avoid this you set the chanserv bot to sit in the channel
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1250[10:17:18] <DarkiJah> Still not totally understood what the difference is
1251[10:17:43] <DarkiJah> Okay nvz - that's the thing I'm looking for.
1252[10:17:45] <nvz> DarkiJah: idk.. on freenode read ## as about
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1254[10:18:06] <nvz> DarkiJah: as in ##linux isn't a channel for the linux kernel.. its a channel about linux
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1256[10:18:26] <DarkiJah> aha okay
1257[10:18:58] <nvz> its a designation for something less official bascially.. but if there isnt a namespace issue doesnt matter really
1258[10:19:13] <DarkiJah> okay
1259[10:19:19] <DarkiJah> So just standard # would do fine
1260[10:19:32] <nvz> unless whatever the name is, becomes some project :P
1261[10:19:42] <DarkiJah> Project in what way?
1262[10:19:46] <DarkiJah> program?
1263[10:19:53] <nvz> freenode is for peer directed projects
1264[10:20:18] <DarkiJah> Sure - this is only for mostly some chat :)
1265[10:20:29] <DarkiJah> for Questions on the website or information
1266[10:20:31] <DarkiJah> or a Trivia
1267[10:20:31] <arseniko> how i can add sudoes on debian?
1268[10:20:33] <nvz> I just used ##nvz for mine.. but I never really used it
1269[10:20:40] <arseniko> adduser command ndont work
1270[10:20:58] <DarkiJah> But ##nvz would not be the same as #nvz correct?
1271[10:21:01] <DarkiJah> 2 different channels
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1273[10:21:11] <nvz> DarkiJah: yes two different channels
1274[10:21:26] <nvz> arseniko: apt install sudo
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1276[10:21:55] <nvz> arseniko: or just use pkexec
1277[10:22:12] <DarkiJah> I guess one could maybe use one for the project website and the other for chat?
1278[10:22:22] <diogenes_> nvz, sudo apt install sudo )
1279[10:22:30] <nvz> diogenes_: heh
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1282[10:23:45] <Haohmaru> a channel might not even have a #
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1284[10:24:25] <DarkiJah> Seems every channel has a #???
1285[10:24:28] <DarkiJah> at least one
1286[10:24:34] <DarkiJah> on freenode???
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1288[10:24:58] <DarkiJah> Can't make a channel without or join anyone without using at least one #
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1293[10:26:13] <Haohmaru> CHANTYPES=# .. seems not on freenode
1294[10:26:32] <DarkiJah> :)
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1296[10:26:45] <DarkiJah> Good I've not lost total sanity.
1297[10:26:49] <nvz> have you been to ## ?
1298[10:26:56] <DarkiJah> Yes
1299[10:27:02] <nvz> pretty neat
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1301[10:27:07] <DarkiJah> I also tried joining ## and #
1302[10:27:15] <DarkiJah> to see... and it is indeed 2 different rooms
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1304[10:27:30] <DarkiJah> Theory fit the practice...
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1307[10:27:39] <nvz> yeah... doing /j/j is always fun too
1308[10:27:42] <DarkiJah> or the Theory was confirmed
1309[10:27:45] <nvz> /j/j
1310[10:27:46] <DarkiJah> ???
1311[10:27:57] <nvz> erm /j /j rather
1312[10:28:01] <DarkiJah> .....
1313[10:28:03] <DarkiJah> what?
1314[10:28:21] <nvz> yeah.. beware of dog..
1315[10:28:23] <DarkiJah> and that does?
1316[10:28:33] <nvz> joins #/j obviously
1317[10:28:43] <nvz> and prob gets you raped by a gay dog
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1320[10:28:48] <nvz> but thats not gaurenteed
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1322[10:29:15] <DarkiJah> You put an animal like that down.
1323[10:29:21] *** Quits: lanyue_ (~lanyue@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1324[10:29:27] <DarkiJah> I think it says in the Torah
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1326[10:29:43] <nvz> you'd think.. but none the less..
1327[10:29:50] <nvz> feel free to see for yourself :P
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1331[10:30:31] <DarkiJah> nothing happens
1332[10:30:44] <nvz> ah, must just be your client
1333[10:30:55] <nvz> mine assumes the # it seems
1334[10:30:55] <DarkiJah> HexChat
1335[10:31:10] <nvz> you might have to specify /j #/j
1336[10:31:22] *** Quits: ddavid (~Dennis@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1337[10:31:29] * jelly points nvz and DarkiJah over to #freenode or #hexchat or #debian-offtopic
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1342[10:31:53] <DarkiJah> Sigh
1343[10:32:23] <DarkiJah> I need some sleep
1344[10:32:35] <DarkiJah> This forum thing has really teared on my these last weeks
1345[10:32:41] <DarkiJah> Tried different kinds of forums
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1348[10:32:46] <DarkiJah> and trying to figure out which to use
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1357[10:35:35] <DarkiJah> You would think weird things could not go from one place to another place
1358[10:36:39] <nvz> thats what makes them weird..
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1361[10:38:21] <hiya> Do I need to make any changes post updating RAM in Debian server?
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1363[10:38:35] <hiya> Does it utilize the RAM automatically?
1364[10:38:39] <nvz> no, yes
1365[10:38:47] <hiya> Ok thanks
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1367[10:38:54] <nvz> we''
1368[10:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1549
1369[10:39:04] <nvz> well by updating you mean adding ram?
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1372[10:39:49] <nvz> presumably on baremetal hardware and having rebooted?
1373[10:39:57] <hiya> yes correct
1374[10:40:20] <nvz> then yes as long as its not running a i686 kernel
1375[10:40:26] <nvz> which has a ram limit
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1378[10:40:43] <nvz> hence the i686-pae kernel
1379[10:40:44] <hiya> i went from 1GB to 2GB
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1381[10:40:53] <nvz> ah, well thats below the limit
1382[10:41:09] <nvz> free -mh
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1385[10:42:49] <hiya> is swap done by itself?
1386[10:42:56] <nvz> no
1387[10:43:12] <hiya> it was 1G before
1388[10:43:13] <nvz> it may have been done by auto partitioning during install if you used that
1389[10:43:18] <hiya> should I keep it?
1390[10:43:35] <nvz> o.O
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1394[10:44:17] <nvz> hiya: as root do this command
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1396[10:44:26] <nvz> swapon|nc termbin.com 9999
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1400[10:45:09] <nvz> your swap should not have automatically increased
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1402[10:45:21] <DarkiJah> Another Forum installed SMF
1403[10:45:24] <DarkiJah> to try out
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1406[10:45:45] <nvz> and I dont offhand know of anything in Debian that does such things
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1413[10:48:43] <nvz> hiya: the utility of swap is to house unused pages, prevent OOM, and hibernate
1414[10:48:50] <b1ack0p> sup
1415[10:48:58] <nvz> to hibernate you need at least as much swap as you have ram
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1417[10:49:15] <nvz> if a server is OOMing or swapping you have bigger problems
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1428[10:54:28] <kristijonas> my aunt (she was on wheezy) yesterday missclicked started updating the system and then thought it takes too long and hard-poweed off her pc. now she is stuck at tty1 login
1429[10:54:54] <jelly> hiya, did you add RAM live on a VM, or is it a physical machine? If it's physical you don't need to do anything.
1430[10:54:58] <kristijonas> she is also not sure if she remembers her username
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1432[10:55:03] <jm_> kristijonas: check if upgrade finished
1433[10:55:17] <RuGaL> Hello I want to update tls to 1.7.18
1434[10:55:21] <RuGaL> Lastest
1435[10:55:21] <hiya> nvz: ok
1436[10:55:27] <hiya> jelly: if on VM?
1437[10:55:31] <jelly> RuGaL, what do you mean by "tls"?
1438[10:55:35] <nvz> kristijonas: at this point its probably easier to backup data and reinstall buster unless there is a reason for staying on wheezy
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1442[10:56:01] <jelly> hiya, if you want to avoid a reboot you need to enable the RAM manually. Just a second.
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1444[10:56:19] <RuGaL> jelly: tls
1445[10:56:24] <kristijonas> jm_, the system was installed without root user, and she is not sure whether the username she types is correct, but when she types it, and then password (she is sure about the password) it says that password is wrong
1446[10:56:25] <hiya> jelly: i am fine with reboot
1447[10:56:37] <RuGaL> its a package
1448[10:56:45] <kristijonas> is there a way to check what was that one and only username?
1449[10:56:59] <nvz> kristijonas: sure, if you're logged in :P
1450[10:57:22] <nvz> kristijonas: you'd need to chroot rescue or bypass init at this point sounds like
1451[10:57:36] <jm_> kristijonas: just boot like so:
1452[10:57:42] <jm_> !i forgot root's password
1453[10:57:43] <dpkg> For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
1454[10:58:31] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
1455[10:58:40] <RuGaL> tcl-tls_1.7.18-2_amd64.deb
1456[10:58:44] <kristijonas> jm_, she is sure about password, but not about username
1457[10:58:46] <RuGaL> I need this package
1458[10:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
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1460[10:59:14] <jm_> kristijonas: that will allow you to check the username too, just use 'cat /etc/passwd'
1461[10:59:24] <ratrace> instead of step 3
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1463[10:59:58] <jm_> yeah stop at step 3 and use that command
1464[11:00:16] <RuGaL> jelly
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1466[11:02:02] <jelly> ,v tcl-tls
1467[11:02:03] <judd> Package: tcl-tls on amd64 -- jessie: 1.6+dfsg-3; stretch: 1.6.7+dfsg-1.2; buster: 1.7.16-1; bullseye: 1.7.20-1; sid: 1.7.20-1
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1469[11:02:56] <jelly> RuGaL, there is no package with that particular version in any release of Debian right now. Which Debian release are you using?
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1479[11:04:59] <jelly> hiya: echo online | sudo tee -a $(grep -l offline /sys/devices/system/memory/*/state)
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1483[11:05:13] <jelly> hiya, remove sudo if you're already root
1484[11:05:28] <jelly> hiya, run "free" before and after
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1488[11:07:58] <hiya> jelly: it says online
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1492[11:10:39] <jelly> hiya, that's not important. run "free" to see how much RAM you have now.
1493[11:10:55] <hiya> jelly: I have 1GB
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1495[11:11:04] <hiya> I didn't upgrade yet on the VM.
1496[11:11:15] <hiya> Just wondering what happens when they set it to 2GB
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1500[11:12:10] <jelly> hiya, if it's a decent platform they do it without reboot, the kernel notices some offline memory was added, and then you run that command or an equivalent
1501[11:12:11] <hiya> Right now it says replaced-url
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1505[11:13:13] <hiya> jelly: so, only 180M is free, is that good enough situation? Do you think I should upgrade at all?
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1509[11:14:26] <jelly> hiya, "free" is not relevant. "available" is what's important, together with "used swap"
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1511[11:14:53] <jelly> and you have 500MB available, only half is in use right now
1512[11:14:58] <jelly> !free ram
1513[11:14:59] <dpkg> Unlike information, your computer's memory does *not* want to be free. Free RAM is wasted RAM! Linux tries to use free physical memory for caching files from disk which speeds up disk access considerably. Linux releases RAM from these caches if programs need it. If you want to know how much physical memory the free(1) tool says you have left for program use, it's 'free' + 'buffers' + 'cache'. Also ask me about <swapwake>.
1514[11:15:01] <hiya> jelly: available is 446?
1515[11:15:08] <jelly> yes
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1517[11:15:21] <hiya> So, I won't upgrade then
1518[11:15:22] <hiya> Thanks!
1519[11:15:47] <jelly> if what is running _right now_ is your common workload, then there's no need to upgrade
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1521[11:16:20] <hiya> jelly: just to be sure, when should I look for upgrade? what should this free command's results look like?
1522[11:16:36] <hiya> Available ram < 100M? And swap used to 50%?
1523[11:17:17] <hiya> jelly: Yes, it is common workload but might increase when wp is loaded a bit with more posts. But I am not sure, because I might not use any weird plugins.
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1530[11:24:01] <jelly> hiya, something like that, yes
1531[11:24:31] <hiya> jelly: If I am getting 1GB upgrade for 0.5USD recurring, should I just go for it?
1532[11:24:48] <hiya> 0.5 USD/m
1533[11:25:08] *** Quits: emilsp (~emilsp@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
1534[11:25:14] <hiya> I think upgrading uselessly makes no sense
1535[11:25:16] <hiya> Thanks!
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1539[11:26:13] <hiya> jelly: If I am not using FDE, can a decent platform upgrade disk space too without causing harm?
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1546[11:29:46] <ratrace> hiya: if it ain't broken, don't fix it.
1547[11:29:47] <jelly> hiya, it depends how decent, sometimes you need a reboot, sometimes not.
1548[11:30:14] <ratrace> (that was in response to "should I upgrade")
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1550[11:31:01] <jelly> hiya, at work we set up all VMs with a separate tiny disk just for /boot, and a second unpartitioned disk for LVM PV. This way the second disk and anything on it can be grown online without reboot.
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1553[11:32:36] <jelly> hiya, if your VM only sees a single disk, usually you need a rescan to update the disk size, then you edit the partition table carefully, then you reboot because kernel can't update its notion of partitions and their sizes on they fly, and then you resize the filesystem
1554[11:32:44] <hiya> ratrace: thanks!
1555[11:33:05] <ratrace> basically partitions and most if not all filesystems, even if LUKS'd, can be _grown_ online, rootfs included
1556[11:33:15] <hiya> jelly: omg that is too much of work. I don't think I can do it, I will ask provider to do it for me.
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1558[11:34:05] <jm_> think twice about that :)
1559[11:34:21] <hiya> jm_: Why? :P
1560[11:34:34] <hiya> Why did I get so tiny disk :(
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1564[11:35:54] <jm_> hiya: well I guess if you have backups it's OK, but otherwise I'd rather do it myself
1565[11:38:25] <ratrace> jelly: no need to reboot, running `partprobe` suffices for teh kernel to notice changes
1566[11:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1569
1567[11:39:01] <jelly> ratrace, that fails more often than it works
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1569[11:39:14] <jm_> yeah there are cases where sfdisk -R fails
1570[11:39:31] <hiya> 50% of disk is free too. /dev/mapper/debian--vg-root 8.6G 4.0G 4.2G 49% /
1571[11:39:43] <jelly> at least it's a LVM so that's a good sign
1572[11:40:02] <ratrace> jelly: if you say so, but I never saw a problem and did quite a number of such resizes in my life. growing, that is. shrinking is a compeltely separate story even for non-rootfs fs
1573[11:40:10] <jm_> ahh they removed -R now :)
1574[11:40:13] <jelly> hiya, if nothing else they can just add a new disk and you can join it into the same LVM VG online
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1576[11:40:50] <jelly> ratrace, I've seen it work maybe 1 in 5 cases, almost never on Debian, sometimes on Ubuntus and CentOSes.
1577[11:40:57] <hiya> Ok thanks! I will let a couple of months go and then only decide
1578[11:41:23] <ratrace> jelly: I find that hard to believe
1579[11:41:41] <ratrace> hiya: if you don't need it, don't bother messing stuff up
1580[11:41:42] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1581[11:42:25] <hiya> ratrace: Ok thanks
1582[11:42:26] <ratrace> jelly: but bottom line, what kind of failure was it? "oh,shi-! we must reboot after all" or "oh,shi-! we just corrupted all teh datas!"
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1584[11:43:38] <jm_> the former, kernel does not update its info about part. table
1585[11:43:54] <ratrace> jm_: it does if you run partprobe
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1587[11:44:21] <jm_> ratrace: it's that part that sometimes fails
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1589[11:45:14] <ratrace> I accept the possibility of failure, but I find it hard to believe that 4/5 cases were failures. I ran such growths many many times over the years, from 2.6.x kernels up to, just now a test with 4.19 buster.
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1592[11:50:44] <jelly> ratrace, ioctl returned failure and /proc/partitions and devices did not change size.
1593[11:51:08] <jm_> yeah that's the one
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1597[11:51:34] <jm_> BLKRRPART
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1599[11:52:24] <ratrace> jelly: okay, so the kind of failure that allows one to try online growth first, and reboot if it fails.
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1601[11:54:11] <jelly> I don't never even try it these days on the remaining physical or old VM machines, just schedule downtime right away.
1602[11:55:46] <ratrace> you're not lazy enough for supreme sysadminship :))
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1646[12:29:50] <shtrb> Should application run under snap be able to share the entire desktop ?
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1670[12:38:36] <Wotac> is anyone else having task switch text getting pixelated after long enough time in KDE plasma?
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1675[12:41:59] <Wotac> they just suddenly get pixelated and never recover on their own anymore, at least reboot fixes it and i don't know if relog fixes it
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1678[12:42:46] <Wotac> i took a screenshot to demonstrate it replaced-url
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1681[12:44:18] <belka-ru> hi, memtest86+ not work on dabian testing
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1695[12:53:39] <mzajc> Wotac: your fonts.conf got corrupted, happened to me too once
1696[12:53:47] <mzajc> hang on, let me give you the location
1697[12:54:25] <mzajc> ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf
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1700[12:54:43] <mzajc> I'm pretty sure you can just remove it, restart plasma, and reconfigure fonts in system settings
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1704[12:55:17] <Wotac> i'll try that now
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1713[12:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
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1724[13:04:22] <Wotac> i relogged and it's back to normal again, although i don't know if relogging would fix it anyway temporarily
1725[13:04:31] <Wotac> but it might be fixed now so thanks
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1745[13:12:10] <[garmapplan]> Hi I got an question. My systemmonitor warns that disk is not mounted with "data=ordered"
1746[13:12:12] <[garmapplan]> dmesg says:
1747[13:12:13] <[garmapplan]> [ 1.924290] EXT4-fs (sda3): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: (null)
1748[13:12:15] <[garmapplan]> ....
1749[13:12:16] <[garmapplan]> [ 2.232195] EXT4-fs (sda3): re-mounted. Opts: data=ordered,errors=remount-ro
1750[13:12:17] *** [garmapplan] was kicked by debhelper (flood)
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1752[13:12:19] <[garmapplan]> but mount:
1753[13:12:20] <[garmapplan]> /dev/sda3 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro)
1754[13:12:23] <[garmapplan]> Any idea's as of why ?
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1783[13:30:45] <afx_> Hello everyone ! Is there a way you can use a list (txt file for example) with regex for meld , or is everything controlled through the GUI?
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1799[13:37:44] <Sachin`> i am trying to install get-psy on my server
1800[13:37:49] <Sachin`> but i got stuck
1801[13:37:54] <Sachin`> any who can help me
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1813[13:44:00] <Seaspeed> any one know about get-psy ?
1814[13:46:01] <joepublic> ,v get-psy
1815[13:46:02] <judd> No package named 'get-psy' was found in amd64.
1816[13:46:49] <Seaspeed> its psybnc ... which we install in root so user just need to type get-psy and psybnc is install for user
1817[13:47:46] <fmatt> is anyone having trouble with keyboard layout? after an upgrade, i'm facing the same problem described in bug #922020
1818[13:47:48] <judd> Bug replaced-url
1819[13:47:56] <Seaspeed> if u dont mind can i paste on link here
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1821[13:48:12] <joepublic> of course
1822[13:48:21] <Seaspeed> replaced-url
1823[13:49:04] <joepublic> that's a pretty old tutorial; it even references getting the file from geocities
1824[13:49:51] <Seaspeed> thats what
1825[13:50:01] <Seaspeed> i got stuck there only
1826[13:50:09] <joepublic> geocities used to be a free hosting service. it doesn't exist anymore.
1827[13:51:00] <joepublic> this tutorial is probably too old to be useful for anything other than studying Internet history
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1829[13:51:36] <Seaspeed> thats true
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1838[13:54:19] <watom> isn't psybnc itself a dead project?
1839[13:54:27] <watom> why don't yo use supported bouncer?
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1853[13:58:54] <Seaspeed> i need auto install
1854[13:58:59] <Seaspeed> like znc
1855[13:59:32] <watom> so use znc? :D
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1859[14:01:32] <jelly> ,v znc
1860[14:01:33] <judd> Package: znc on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4-2; jessie-security: 1.4-2+deb8u2; stretch: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 1.7.2-3~bpo9+1; buster: 1.7.2-3; buster-backports: 1.7.5-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.7.5-4; sid: 1.7.5-4
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1866[14:07:20] <Seaspeed> ,v get-psy.txt
1867[14:07:21] <judd> No package named 'get-psy.txt' was found in amd64.
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1872[14:08:26] <jelly> Seaspeed, what does "auto install" mean for you? Do you have root access on the machine to install znc from an official repo the normal way?
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1888[14:15:47] <Seaspeed> yeah i have root access
1889[14:16:00] <Seaspeed> i did install znc
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1891[14:16:22] <Seaspeed> but some user are requesting for psybnc
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1894[14:17:06] <jelly> ,v psybnc
1895[14:17:07] <judd> No package named 'psybnc' was found in amd64.
1896[14:17:12] <jelly> ,bug rm psybnc
1897[14:17:13] <judd> Sorry, no removal reasons were found.
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1902[14:18:42] <watom> the reason is that the project is old and dead
1903[14:19:05] <watom> i don't think we want things with pubblic exploits in debian repositories
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1906[14:19:34] <watom> also who is interested to mantain it :p
1907[14:20:00] <watom> Seaspeed give them the bad new. psybnc is not with us anymore. time to move on
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1923[14:26:39] <ice999> how to creaate .htpassws file? the command htpasswd is not there
1924[14:27:07] <watom> you need apache2-utils
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1927[14:27:25] <ice999> watom, even if i will need it for nginx only?
1928[14:27:49] <watom> idk. if nginx hasn't the own thing i gues yes?
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1930[14:28:10] <watom> replaced-url
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1932[14:28:18] <watom> they ask to use the apache tool
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1941[14:32:40] <jelly> judd, file bin/htpasswd
1942[14:32:44] <judd> Search for bin/htpasswd in buster/amd64: apache2-utils: usr/bin/htpasswd
1943[14:32:55] <jelly> ice999, ^ install that.
1944[14:33:04] <ice999> thanks
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1946[14:33:20] <jelly> which is what watom said before, sorry
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1982[14:53:19] <Wotac> after removing ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf i'm now getting error messages that setting locale failed, i already tried locale-gen and dpkg-reconfigure locales but it still happens
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1984[14:54:07] <greycat> My lovely wonderful corporate networking department has fully broken the hell out of HTTP apt. So I'm trying to use https. It's nearly working, but security.debian.org is not:
1985[14:54:10] <greycat> Err:2 replaced-url
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1988[14:54:51] <greycat> Is there, like, a *trick* to get security.debian.org to work over https? Especially on older releases?
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1991[14:55:59] <ratrace> greycat: it simply does not listen on port 443 it seems
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1993[14:56:09] <ratrace> I really don't understand Debian and its insistence not to use TLS
1994[14:56:25] <greycat> Ah, if I comment out the squid proxy in apt.conf I get Failed to connect to security.debian.org port 443: Connection refused
1995[14:56:53] <greycat> I understand it, but it's becoming a pain for me, personally, because of the stupidity being piled on by my workplace.
1996[14:57:14] <shtrb> greycat, proxy ?
1997[14:57:26] <greycat> after commenting that out, I get the other error
1998[14:57:33] <ratrace> greycat: what can possibly be the justifiable reason, in the age of letsencrypt and AESNI cpus?
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2000[14:57:44] <greycat> bandwidth
2001[14:57:53] <ratrace> what bandwidht?
2002[14:58:00] <greycat> http sources can be cached
2003[14:58:11] <ratrace> hrm
2004[14:58:19] <shtrb> greycat, Are you trying to access security.debian.org using an http proxy ? (that should break by definition)
2005[14:58:28] <ratrace> is anyone really using that... that applies only to proxies. meanwhile there's a megaton of mirrors
2006[14:58:28] <greycat> shtrb: NOT ANY MORE.
2007[14:58:41] <greycat> ratrace: got a security.debian.org mirror for me?
2008[14:58:52] <ratrace> oh I see what you mean
2009[14:59:08] <jelly> greycat, most security.d.o are broken wrt https, good luck finding one that accidentally works
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2012[14:59:41] <ratrace> greycat: but again, caching only applies to proxies. I'm very curious to know what % of connections to s.d.o is proxied...
2013[14:59:55] <themill> greycat: replaced-url
2014[15:00:12] <greycat> for security, on stretch and buster? and maybe older releases too?
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2017[15:00:39] <jelly> if tor is an option you can try security.debian.org: replaced-url
2018[15:00:49] <themill> greycat: yes
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2020[15:02:08] <greycat> themill: hmm... ok, thanks.
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2022[15:02:28] <themill> see replaced-url
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2024[15:03:51] <jelly> when did that start working
2025[15:03:51] <jelly> deb replaced-url
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2028[15:04:12] <themill> yonks ago
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2038[15:06:49] <themill> DSA has been putting security.d.o behind a CDN for ages because every kernel update would take down the small security mirror network. When you have people bleating for https and lots of mirrors, the only way to do that is a CDN like fastly
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2067[15:14:08] <ice999> i just installed mariadb on a fresh server and 'root' can login to mysql without a password; how do I set a root's password?
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2073[15:15:11] <greycat> replaced-url
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2094[15:23:01] <greycat> The (ridiculous) surprising thing about mysql/mariadb authentication is that an account isn't identified just by a username. It's identified by a username + hostname combination. So you have a password for 'fred'@'localhost', and then a separate password for 'fred'@'*' or whatever, for sites that come in via TCP instead of unix domain socket.
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2096[15:24:34] <jelly> and the name "localhost" is hardcoded in mysql client library to mean "connect to unix domain socket, not localhost"
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2099[15:26:14] <iateadonut> remember BBS games? some colors on my terminal recently made me want to play some.
2100[15:26:29] <iateadonut> any suggestions on how/where? something like trade wars or whatever (but not trade wars)
2101[15:26:55] <jelly> ice999, don't do what google tells you to. As root, run mysql_secure_installation and answer the questions.
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2104[15:28:40] <jelly> if you already did what google told you to, it's not a problem, that's the most important stuff of what the mysql_secure_installation script does (but the script also does some more bits IIRC)
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2124[15:34:45] <Delemas> I'm trying to write firewall rules to allow dput use from a host. Has anyone found documentation on what it uses?
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2127[15:37:26] <Delemas> You'd think this would be simple but there are actually zero hits on Google for example rules...
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2141[15:45:02] <themill> Delemas: you can configure dput to use lots of different protocols and talk to lots of different hosts
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2148[15:48:40] <faceface_> hello
2149[15:48:49] <Haohmaru> hai
2150[15:48:51] <faceface_> I'm grabbing a qcow2 vm to run from here: replaced-url
2151[15:48:57] <faceface_> what is the root password?
2152[15:49:16] <faceface_> and is this a good choice for a 'generic server'?
2153[15:49:24] <keropok> ****
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2157[15:51:29] <frojnd> Hi there.
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2159[15:52:05] <frojnd> I programatically created crontab in /var/spool/cron/crontabs/cambugger
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2162[15:53:00] <frojnd> Inside I added one line: @reboot /bin/bash -c "/home/cambugger/work/start_picocom.sh"
2163[15:53:19] <frojnd> But on boot... I can see two "start_picocom.s" processes started
2164[15:53:27] <frojnd> cambugg+ 477 0.0 0.0 2388 756 ? Ss 15:47 0:00 /bin/sh -c /bin/bash -c "/home/cambugger/work/start_picocom.sh"
2165[15:53:35] <frojnd> cambugg+ 478 0.1 0.0 7160 3660 ? S 15:47 0:00 /bin/bash /home/cambugger/work/start_picocom.sh
2166[15:53:37] <frojnd> Why is that?
2167[15:53:50] <frojnd> So now they are overlapping
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2169[15:54:10] <themill> that's not two start_picocom, that's sh running bash to run your script
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2172[15:55:30] <frojnd> I'm pretty sure that's not correct way there should only be one, because if I remove entry from /var/spool/cron/crontabs/cambugger then there is no processes upon boot
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2175[15:56:15] <frojnd> My question is why are there 2 processes?
2176[15:56:19] <frojnd> How can I fix this
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2178[15:57:11] <themill> There's nothing to fix other than a redundant use of "bash -c"
2179[15:57:14] <greycat> one is clearly a child of the other. that's extremely common with shells cripts.
2180[15:57:35] <jelly> frojnd, if you have shell wrappers for an actual tool, and the actual tool is the last command you're running from the shell wrapper, run it with exec SOME COMMAND, not just SOME COMMAND. That will replace the shell process completely.
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2183[16:00:16] <frojnd> jelly: tool?
2184[16:00:25] <greatgatsby> faceface_, you can change the root password on the qcow image with: sudo virt-customize -a <path-to-image> --root-password password:MyBadPassword
2185[16:00:27] <jelly> frojnd, the thing you actually want to run.
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2187[16:00:55] <greatgatsby> faceface_, if you get an error, you might need to set an env var: sudo LIBGUESTFS_BACKEND=direct virt-customize .... (the rest of the command)
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2189[16:01:06] <frojnd> jelly: jeah... start_picocom.sh is a bash script
2190[16:01:11] <greatgatsby> faceface_, you might also want to resize it first too
2191[16:01:13] <frojnd> jelly: with bash shebang
2192[16:01:14] <jelly> frojnd, and what does it DO?
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2195[16:01:36] <greycat> it's got a .sh extension so it's clearly not very well-written
2196[16:01:45] <greycat> probably all kinds of inefficiencies and bugs
2197[16:01:45] <greatgatsby> faceface_, replaced-url
2198[16:02:04] <jelly> frojnd, if it's a #!/bin/bash script, then make it executable and call it directly. No need for bash -c
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2200[16:02:27] <frojnd> jelly: replaced-url
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2204[16:03:04] * greycat scrolls up and sees the /bin/sh -c /bin/bash -c "..." thing
2205[16:03:14] <greycat> that's quite ridiculous indeed
2206[16:03:20] <jelly> frojnd, make is executable and just call /home/cambugger/work/start_picocom.sh from the cron job.
2207[16:03:22] <jelly> nothing else
2208[16:03:33] <frojnd> jelly: ok let me try it. Thank you btw
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2210[16:04:06] <ice999> when i enable ChrootDirectory for sftp in sshd, the connection terminates when the user tries to connect, any idea?
2211[16:04:06] <faceface_> greatgatsby: thanks
2212[16:04:14] <jelly> frojnd, the first /bin/sh -c is PROBABLY from cron itself, because something in your command line made it think you were using shell syntax. Probably doublequotes.
2213[16:04:18] <greycat> by the way, if cambugger is the one whose cron job this IS, I would recommend calling ./work/start_picocom.sh
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2216[16:04:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
2217[16:04:39] <greycat> there's no good reason to hard-code /home/cambugger/ in the cron job if it's cambugger's cron job
2218[16:04:50] <frojnd> greycat: yeah it's cambugger's cron
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2220[16:05:00] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
2221[16:05:44] <frojnd> greycat: Yeah makes sense.. was runing it as frojnd on my virtualbox but forgot to change it.. RUnning it on real hardware now
2222[16:06:22] <jelly> ,file bin/mapfile
2223[16:06:25] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
2224[16:06:39] <themill> jelly: it's a bash builtin
2225[16:06:42] <frojnd> jelly: so I must make it /bin/sh compatible then so cron won't run it as bash?
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2228[16:07:17] <jelly> frojnd, no. Just omit bash -c and quotes in the cron job definition, don't change the script
2229[16:07:25] <frojnd> jelly: ok
2230[16:08:04] <greycat> I doubt the script is error-free either, but... that's outside of our scope here.
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2232[16:08:13] <faceface_> greatgatsby: thanks so much for these pointers... I've been in the weeds all day
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2235[16:08:59] <greatgatsby> faceface_, no problem, I've got that page bookmarked, and some cloud-img notes, otherwise there's no way I'd remember that
2236[16:09:29] <jelly> frojnd, cron usually runs jobs directly. But when it detects shell syntax, it switches to running with /bin/sh -c '...'
2237[16:09:58] <jelly> frojnd, if you coerce it to run the app directly, /bin/sh will be gone
2238[16:10:16] <jelly> that's what my suggestion is supposed to accomplish
2239[16:10:27] <faceface_> greatgatsby: what package includes virt-customize?
2240[16:11:41] <faceface_> libguestfs-tools I guess
2241[16:12:05] <frojnd> jelly: hm still I have /bin/sh -c ./work/start_picocom.sh and /bin/bash ./work/start_picocom.sh
2242[16:12:22] <greatgatsby> yeah, was just about to reply. BTW - "apt-file" will help you with these questions (if you weren't aware of that tool)
2243[16:12:33] <greycat> start_picocom.sh probably calls itself recursively, or something like that, who the hell knows
2244[16:12:38] <faceface_> thanks, I always forget how to use it!
2245[16:12:49] <jelly> frojnd, what does your crontab line look like now
2246[16:12:49] <frojnd> greycat: why would it calls itself? I've pasted the code
2247[16:12:59] <themill> greycat: well we have a copy of it and we know it doesn't
2248[16:13:18] <frojnd> @reboot ./work/start_picocom.sh
2249[16:13:19] <greycat> OK, then it's just cron doing the extra sh -c layer and nothing to fret over.
2250[16:13:36] <jelly> huh, ok, that should have gotten rid of /bin/sh
2251[16:13:44] <jelly> frojnd, which debian release is this?
2252[16:14:05] <jelly> greycat, it shouldn't do that
2253[16:14:09] <frojnd> err... I thin buster net install with just basic tool and ssh (I choose during installation)
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2255[16:14:23] <jelly> frojnd, dpkg -l cron|tail -n1
2256[16:14:28] <jelly> ,v cron
2257[16:14:29] <judd> Package: cron on amd64 -- jessie: 3.0pl1-127+deb8u1; jessie-security: 3.0pl1-127+deb8u2; stretch: 3.0pl1-128+deb9u1; buster: 3.0pl1-134+deb10u1; bullseye: 3.0pl1-136; sid: 3.0pl1-136
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2259[16:14:45] <frojnd> jelly: ii cron 3.0pl1-134+deb10u1 amd64 process scheduling daemon
2260[16:14:56] <jelly> okay, that looks like buster
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2262[16:15:13] <frojnd> As I said.. I did it programatically
2263[16:15:21] <frojnd> I didn't do it like this: crontab -e
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2266[16:15:56] <greycat> "because DOCKER!!!"
2267[16:16:06] <frojnd> No..
2268[16:16:08] *** Joins: thor_ (~thor@replaced-ip)
2269[16:16:27] <frojnd> Because I have a coworker and he is not so keen with terminal
2270[16:16:37] <frojnd> Here is how I did it
2271[16:17:36] <jelly> frojnd, it doesn't really matter whether you ran "crontab -u cambugger tempfile" or "crontab -u cambugger -e" and edited, that's fine
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2275[16:18:48] <greycat> I'm betting it was "I wrote a script that writes a script that ssh-es in and uses sudo and has multiple passwords involved, and presto bingo, it ends up writing @reboot ./foo to /var/spool/cron/user"
2276[16:18:53] <frojnd> jelly: I mean I didn't touched crontab -e whatsoever, I created file like this: replaced-url
2277[16:18:59] <frojnd> After this I played with crontab -e
2278[16:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1590
2279[16:19:08] <frojnd> Or crontab -u cambugger -e
2280[16:19:41] <LCRERGO> Is there a recommended way to manage different versions of python in a Debian system, besides virtualenv?
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2283[16:20:25] <frojnd> And I forgot to double quotes my vars
2284[16:20:29] <frojnd> But that's another issue
2285[16:20:34] <frojnd> jelly: any more ideas?
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2290[16:22:10] <frojnd> If I run just once,... start_picocom.sh it works just fine
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2292[16:23:10] <greycat> but it *already* works fine, and you're just stressing over this extra harmless process that shows up in ps's output
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2294[16:23:49] <frojnd> It doesn't work fine... if it would then it would write into file which is defined inside script I pasted
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2297[16:24:08] <faceface_> greatgatsby: I'm getting this error: error: Failed to start domain Test1 / error: internal error: process exited while connecting to monitor: Could not access KVM kernel module: Permission denied
2298[16:24:24] <greycat> Having process N "sh -c ./foo" and process N+1 "bash ./foo" is completely NORMAL and does not cause misbehaviors.
2299[16:24:28] <faceface_> When it says 'monitor' does it literally mean my monitor? I'm trying to do this headerless
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2301[16:24:34] <greycat> If your script isn't working, that's a completely SEPARATE question.
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2303[16:25:31] <faceface_> I guess not
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2307[16:27:06] <greycat> replaced-url
2308[16:27:12] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip)
2309[16:27:17] <greycat> buster's cron. It uses shell -c, every time.
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2312[16:28:18] <frojnd> So it runs it like this: shell -c ./work/start_picocom.sh ?
2313[16:28:37] *** Joins: debbers (3307464b@replaced-ip)
2314[16:28:46] <greycat> where "shell" is /bin/sh, yes.
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2317[16:29:09] <debbers> Hello, quick question for people.
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2320[16:29:31] <debbers> I run a few services such as Logitech Media Server and Airsonic on Debian 9
2321[16:29:43] <debbers> I want to run RetroPie but it requires me to use Debian 8
2322[16:29:58] <debbers> What are the 'dangers' / security risks of running debian 8?
2323[16:30:04] <debbers> Thank you :)
2324[16:30:34] <greycat> jessie is still under LTS (Long Term Support) for server stuff, but not necessarily for desktop stuff
2325[16:30:52] <petn-randall> debbers: I don't know Logitech Media Server and Airsonic. You'll have to look at the vendor's site if they still support that, and if yes, under which Debian releases.
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2330[16:33:05] <debbers> greycat Is Jessie Debian 9? - I am new to Linux / debian so please take this question seriously. Thank you
2331[16:33:25] <trek00> debbers: have you tried retropie on debian 9?
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2334[16:33:38] <trek00> debbers: jessie is debian 8
2335[16:33:40] <greycat> jessie is Debian 8, stretch is Debian 9
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2337[16:34:31] <f-a> hello quarantined people. I plan to install debian on a new laptop which has an atheros card. I suspect I need this replaced-url
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2342[16:35:22] <debbers> petn-randall it's not so much if AirSonic and Logictech Media Server is compatible with 8, it's more that I will make the server avaliable online from my home network and I wondered if running it online presents a security risk to my home network? Could an Deb-8 be easily hacked?
2343[16:36:19] <debbers> greycat so Jessie is Deb-8 and that is still supported?
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2345[16:36:29] <greycat> Barely supported, partially supported....
2346[16:36:37] <klys> most recent vulns have more to do with your kernel than anything else. debian 8 should be pretty close to just as secure as debian 9 or 10.
2347[16:36:42] <greatgatsby> LCRERGO, pyenv
2348[16:36:48] <greycat> Server stuff on Deb 8 is probably OK, for now.
2349[16:37:02] <greycat> Unless it's weird niche server stuff.
2350[16:37:20] <jm_> f-a: there are installer images with non-free firmware available
2351[16:37:24] <watom> f-a you can download the firmware package and put it into the debian media or an external memory
2352[16:37:34] <jm_> !firmware images
2353[16:37:34] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
2354[16:37:41] <jm_> f-a: ^^^^^^
2355[16:38:00] <debbers> I think I can reformulate my question now I have unpicked this a little with people - I want to know if running Debian 8 on my home network and open to the internet poses any security risks for my home network or the Deb-8 server? Thank you :)
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2357[16:38:59] <greycat> It depends on what you run ON debian 8.
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2359[16:39:13] <trek00> debbers: retropie is not running on debian 9?
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2361[16:39:54] <f-a> watom: jm_: thanks. Tho, is that nonfree?
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2363[16:40:24] <jm_> f-a: most firmware files are
2364[16:40:36] <debbers> trek00 when I checked a couple of weeks ago people on the forums were recommending to use Debian 8 for retropie.
2365[16:41:00] <watom> f-a really depends on your network card
2366[16:41:06] <trek00> debbers: give it a try on debian9, may be those forums was old?
2367[16:41:16] <debbers> trek00 I have RetroPie installed on Debian 9 but when I open it the screen flashes black and then I am taken back to the desk top.
2368[16:41:21] <f-a> ok, thanks
2369[16:41:26] <watom> i didn't review if you need it. i just showed you a way to include firmwares in case
2370[16:41:27] <jm_> no problem
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2372[16:41:49] <trek00> debbers: ok, it was just to be sure
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2374[16:42:27] <debbers> trek00 totally understand, so yes Deb-9 doesn;t seem to work, that's why I am looking to test it on Deb-8 next.
2375[16:43:05] <debbers> trek00 I am just worried that running Deb-8 will expose my system to vulnerabilities, especially as I have some services open to the internet on it .......
2376[16:43:15] <greycat> !jessie lts
2377[16:43:32] <greycat> !jessie-lts
2378[16:43:32] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 8 "Jessie" from the Debian Security Team ended on 2018-05-17. The amd64, i386, armel and armhf architectures will receive additional long term support (<LTS>) via <jessie/updates> until June 30, 2020 for a 5 year lifetime total. See replaced-url
2379[16:43:42] <debbers> Any know vulnerabilities with Deb-8 ?
2380[16:43:47] <greycat> You've got limited support until June.
2381[16:44:28] <trek00> debbers: the list of known vulnerabilities is here replaced-url
2382[16:44:32] <debbers> greycat Well some updates till June is better than nothing.
2383[16:45:20] <debbers> greycat trek00, Can you tell me is Deb-8-lts different to Deb-8, I just want to make sure I download the correct Deb .ISO
2384[16:45:37] <trek00> debbers: not it's the same
2385[16:45:51] <trek00> debbers: lts only means that support is extended
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2387[16:46:16] <debbers> So Deb-8 is the same as Deb-8-lts? They are the same thing?
2388[16:46:27] <greycat> There is only one thing.
2389[16:46:30] <karlpinc> debbers: Every debian release goes into long-term support.
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2391[16:46:51] <karlpinc> debbers: (But there is the question of why you'd want to start by _installing_ something old.)
2392[16:47:10] <greycat> "See replaced-url
2393[16:47:20] <debbers> trek00 - I don't really understand that list of vulnerabilities, but I assume that it must be 'safe' to use if it is still being supported?
2394[16:47:21] <karlpinc> debbers: Note that not every package in the release has long term support. (And I don't know how to tell the difference.)
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2396[16:47:58] <debbers> greycat There is only one Deb-8 ...... Affirmative, understood.
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2402[16:49:14] <debbers> Karlpinc - I am needing to run something old as the software I wish to run (RetroPie) Needs to run on Deb-8 as it can't run on the newer Deb OSes.
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2408[16:50:42] <dacencora> debbers: just run retroarch + emulationstation
2409[16:50:59] <karlpinc> debbers: Well, that's a good reason. (Although I'd think there'd be a better alternative that gives you the same result.)
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2415[16:51:49] <debbers> karlpinc No doubt there are many alternative ways to achieve what I am doing. But I'm not a Linux wizard so I generally go with the way that works best for me.
2416[16:52:18] <dacencora> debbers: RetroPie is just retroarch + emulationstation
2417[16:52:39] <karlpinc> dacencora: Would that work with the buster retroarch package?
2418[16:52:49] <dacencora> Both retroarch and emulationstation will run with basically any debian version
2419[16:53:12] <debbers> dacencora Thanks for the tip. Will this give me a nice glossy easy to use interface like RetroPie? I once installed RetroArch, but then it required me to install each emulator separately and it got real messy real quick ....
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2421[16:53:42] <dacencora> karlpinc: good question. I am running bullseye, and I ended up building both retroarch and emulationstation, but I think it's easier/better in buster
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2423[16:54:34] <dacencora> debbers: I know this is the debian IRC but are you opposed to using Ubuntu? The xmbc PPA makes setting up RetroArch super easy. (I like Debian much better than Ubuntu, but that PPA in particular is nice)
2424[16:54:44] <dacencora> *retroarch ppa
2425[16:54:48] <dacencora> Not xmbc sorry
2426[16:54:58] <debbers> Just looking up guides to install retroarch and emulation station in debian,
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2430[16:56:13] <debbers> On the retroarch webpage, I don't see instructions for debian but there is a guide for Ubuntu, is the Ubuntu guide the best one to follow?
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2432[16:56:46] <dacencora> debbers: retroarch also comes as a flatpak
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2435[16:57:00] <dacencora> That's the "official" way of doing it
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2437[16:57:09] <debbers> Should I use the flatpak?
2438[16:57:14] <dacencora> I forgot that they had changed it in recent releases
2439[16:57:22] <dacencora> Flatpak will likely make things easier
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2442[16:57:44] <dacencora> (I personally don't like or use flatpak myself, but I appreciate its usefulness)
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2448[16:59:08] <jelly> frojnd, don't manipulate files in /var/spool/cron/crontabs/ directly. Replace whole contents with "crontab tempfile" syntax.
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2450[16:59:41] <jelly> frojnd, otherwise you a) need to restart cron service b) if there's a syntax error you won't be alerted to that
2451[16:59:54] <slanck> hi, i would like to do kernel debugging on Debian 10.0.0 but I can't get the default kernel with symbols.
2452[17:00:00] <slanck> Does anyone know how to help me?
2453[17:00:06] <dacencora> debbers: As far as the "easy-to-use" interface, that will come from emulationstation. retroarch's interface is still lacking IMO. You could also use something like the Internet Archive Game Launcher for Kodi as a frontend, but you will need to get the Kodi version from the testing repos, or build it yourself
2454[17:00:08] <debbers> dacencora Yes I try where possible to stay a way from the easier stuff and do it in the more traditional Linux way, in the hope that it will aid me to Learn Linux better.
2455[17:00:33] <debbers> Is it Flathub that i search for Flatpak apps?
2456[17:00:50] <karlpinc> slanck: Have you tried installing the linux-image-*-dbg package?
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2458[17:01:08] <dacencora> debbers: yep. Or you can use Snaps and go to Snapcraft
2459[17:01:15] <trek00> slanck: there is a linux-image-*-dbg package that you need to install
2460[17:01:36] <slanck> karlpinc: yes but I do not find the package for Debian 10.0.0, it seems only to have the 10.3.0 kernel
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2462[17:01:58] <dacencora> debbers: "more traditional" Linux is sort of a misnomer. Many things have changed over the years. Flatpak/Snap are likely the way of the future
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2464[17:02:13] <debbers> What is the difference between snaps and Flatpak dacencora?
2465[17:02:19] <slanck> trek00: yes, for latest version but I am interested to get the kernel with symbols for all Debian 10 releases and I can't find for older ones
2466[17:02:34] <ratrace> debbers: different vendor, same concept, similar implementations.
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2468[17:02:46] <karlpinc> !snapshot
2469[17:02:47] <dpkg> replaced-url
2470[17:03:04] <debbers> Yes I understand that things will move forwards and if more people are to use Linux then snaps and Flatpak are likely to be the way of the future. I 100% get that.
2471[17:03:06] <karlpinc> slanck: ^
2472[17:03:11] <ratrace> dacencora: flat/snaps have use and function, but will never replace traditional packaging.
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2475[17:04:22] <debbers> I'm happy enough to run a sudo apt command, it's when there are dependencies involved that I start to panic and melt ......
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2477[17:04:48] <trek00> debbers: flatpak and snap helps programs which have compatibility problems
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2479[17:04:56] <debbers> So snaps and Flatpak or pretty much similar things just made by different people / organisations?
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2481[17:05:14] <ratrace> debbers: use packages in standard debian repos, those won't melt in Stable. for anything else that isn't packaged regularly, flat/snaps provide an alternative method that does' pollute the system too much.
2482[17:05:28] <ratrace> debbers: yes
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2484[17:05:38] <ratrace> and appimage, but its implementation and concept is slightly different
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2486[17:05:49] <slanck> karlpinc: thank you very much. I took a look there before asking here but I couldn't find it anyway. I will try again, ty
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2490[17:06:31] <ratrace> flatpak, snap, appimage, docker, rocket, podman and I'm sure I'm forgetting some, they're all trying to solve the same set of problems.
2491[17:06:45] <dacencora> ratrace: I certainly hope not. I far prefer Distro-specific packaging and repos
2492[17:07:09] <alioui_> hi, is it possible to shrink a partition /home and add space to /var ?? if so how
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2495[17:07:22] <jelly> frojnd, so depending on how your system starts up, you may have _thought_ you changed cron job but the change was not active
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2499[17:08:03] <debbers> ratrace, it's not the sytem that melts it's my brain. I'm new to Linux so when I read through and see dependencies I often don't understand what I am required to do to add the dependencies
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2503[17:08:42] <ratrace> debbers: then best don't deviate from Debian Stable defaults until you feel more comfortable. if you _must_ then use snaps or flatpaks as those are least likely to pollute the system
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2505[17:08:43] <debbers> Don't think I have heard of appimage,, rocket, podman
2506[17:09:10] <dacencora> debbers: there are a few different ways to install packages on any distro, but for Debian in particular there are the official repos (BEST), .deb packages (usually the worst, because dependency resolution can become a nightmare), snap/flatpak/etc (they're ok, but the way they run programs is sort of a blackhole), and building from source (usually the more advanced/more difficult, but affords the
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2508[17:09:17] <dacencora> greatest freedom and customizability)
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2510[17:09:32] <ratrace> debbers: like pretty much everything else in *NIX world, every problem has a ton of separate implementations of the same or similar solutions :)
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2512[17:09:56] <debbers> Docker is another thing that melts my brain a little, but Iknow it's something I REALLY need to learn as it seems to remove a lot of the complications of installing apps on a Linux system. Often all the depenncies are already set up and ready to go. It's as if Dicker gives you a complete and ready to deploy app, that's how I understand it ??
2513[17:10:01] <trek00> alioui_: yes, which filesystem?
2514[17:10:43] <ratrace> debbers: all these are "containerized application deployment" systems. Each app is a tarball, so to speak, of a mini-distro inside, complete with libc and every lib and dependency some program requires to run, sans the kernel itself.
2515[17:11:19] <ratrace> debbers: so basically, you're installing a mini-OS (sans kernel) under a directory, for each application installed via these platforms.
2516[17:11:37] <jelly> dpkg, dicker is <reply>see docker
2517[17:11:39] <dpkg> okay, jelly
2518[17:12:11] <ratrace> there are minor exceptions to this, like flatpak and snap offering so called "runtimes" which include boilerplate dependencies so individual applications need to package a bit less than literally a full OS sans the kernel.
2519[17:12:18] <ratrace> jelly: +1
2520[17:12:25] <debbers> I think a lot of people in the Linux world prefer their distro-specifi repos though? But as I said if more people are to use Linux snaps and Flatpak etc will probs need to become a standard,
2521[17:12:29] <trek00> alioui_: also, do you have lvm?
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2524[17:12:57] <alioui_> debian os and not lvm
2525[17:13:04] <alioui_> ext4
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2528[17:13:48] <ratrace> debbers: hope note. also dont' forget that anyone can upload anything to their hubs, there is no maintainership and vetting by "your distro", which is by design, so those platforms will never replace standard packaging.
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2530[17:13:55] <ratrace> augment yes, replace never.
2531[17:14:09] <debbers> ratrace and how do I find out / know if I am using Debian Stable defaults ? This is new terminology to me so I'm not sure if I am understanding correctly.
2532[17:14:11] <trek00> alioui_: well you can shrink easily, but to add space to another partition it will probably require to backup and recreate that partition
2533[17:14:51] <dacencora> debbers: if you install things via "sudo apt install" or "sudo apt-get install" you're doing it the default way
2534[17:14:57] <fuxxy> Attempting to craft some errorchecking into my apache2 virtualhost configs. It appears <IfModule mod_ssl.c> works (assuming 'a2enmod ssl' was loaded). However, mod_ssl.c does not exist on the system. The actual module is mod_ssl.so. What would be the "proper" directive?
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2536[17:15:05] <ratrace> debbers: if you installed using the installer and didn't add alien repositories, then you're using default repos. Buster is currently "the" Debian Stable release.
2537[17:15:20] <dacencora> Also nothing will change on its own, so you are already using defaults unless you change something
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2539[17:15:31] <debbers> dacencora I didn't know .debs are considered the worst. I intalled Logitech Media Server on my servea via a .deb and didn't have any issues, it was a very smooth and easy process.
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2541[17:15:52] <alioui_> trek00: ok thanks
2542[17:16:21] <dacencora> debbers: technically that is just my opinion, but I have always had issues with .deb packages. If that is all I have, I usually tend to build from source, because the dependency management is easier when building from source
2543[17:16:30] <debbers> I have never built anything from source, I wouldn't even know how to build from soucre. From my understanding building from source is for true Linux ninjas ;)
2544[17:16:55] <fuxxy> debbers, from my experence, .deb installation is the same as "normal" repo installation. The biggest issue from installing an up-to-date .deb on a system with proper dependancies is the lack of version control and package updates
2545[17:17:01] <trek00> alioui_: the command to shrink or expand a filesystem is resize2fs
2546[17:17:12] <ratrace> debbers: they're "the worst" (assuming .deb files from random sources) because they're intrusive and have huge potential to break your system. But for many applications there are tidy and quality repositories for debian that one can use in addition to default repos.
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2548[17:17:40] <dacencora> debbers: well I use a source-based distro for my everyday computing, but the main issue is that most distros (debian included) don't install headers by default
2549[17:17:55] <fuxxy> debbers, you're trusting the packager of the .deb to not be doing anything harmful, and there's no oversight on what was put in the .deb
2550[17:18:01] <debbers> ratrace snaps and flatpak are examples of "containerization" - Is that correct? I didn't know that ......
2551[17:18:10] <ratrace> dacencora: and for majority of use cases, unless you're developing for those packages, the headers are not needed
2552[17:18:15] <ratrace> debbers: yes
2553[17:18:20] <dacencora> So you have to go and install the -dev versions of all the libraries that you need
2554[17:18:27] <dacencora> ratrace: absolutely true
2555[17:18:35] <dacencora> Just an fyi for building from source
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2557[17:18:58] <greycat> *Some* things are easy to build from source. Some are not.
2558[17:19:00] <ratrace> though building from source is the last thing a newcomer to linux should attempt.
2559[17:19:02] <serard> Hello
2560[17:19:09] <serard> Is it possible in preseed to remove man ?
2561[17:19:13] <dacencora> Distros like slackware and Gentoo include the headers as part of the base package, so you rarely need to install anything to build
2562[17:19:21] <dacencora> ratrace: Oh I absolutely agree
2563[17:19:22] <greycat> Generally speaking, the more mature and popular a program is, the easier it will be to build, but there are exceptions.
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2566[17:19:49] <fuxxy> ratrace, I started my linux experience with Gentoo. I'm a glutton for punishment via steep learning curves, I guess.
2567[17:20:02] <dacencora> Not that I disagree with Debian's way of doing things. (Debian is one of my favorite distros by far)
2568[17:20:12] <dacencora> fuxxy: haha that is pretty crazy
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2573[17:21:19] <fuxxy> dacencora, I've since then learned how difficult maintaining a source-based distro was on a 'stable' platform can be. I switched to debian for my production and homelab servers
2574[17:21:34] <debbers> rartrace when you say hubs you are referring to Flatpak and snaps etc? So Who owns Flatpak and snaps? I am starting to see why they are less secure and less prefered than using repo hubs now. Does anything nasty ever get in to repo hubs?
2575[17:22:23] <debbers> So repos - regardles of if they come from debian or not are usually considered good? / the best way to install apps?
2576[17:22:30] <dacencora> fuxxy: interesting, in my experience Gentoo is incredibly stable, even when using ~arch. I don't think I have ever broken my Gentoo install. Debian and Ubuntu are obviously easier/better/faster to maintain
2577[17:22:56] <ratrace> debbers: yes. flatpak and snaps have their "hubs", which are their official repositories. those hubs are external to distros and have zero oversight from any distro. anyone can upload MySQLTotallyNotWithMalwareISwear there and it may be installed by people. THAT already happened (malware in one of the snaps).
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2579[17:23:32] <fuxxy> dacencora, Oh, I didn't have stability issues. My issues were relating to incomplete/broken deps requiring complete toolchain recompiles for seemingly minor version updates
2580[17:23:33] <debbers> dacencora When you ttalk about headers I am lost, I haven't heard that terminology before.
2581[17:23:34] <ratrace> debbers: of course, there are vetted "verified" vendors at leat in Snapstore, but that's the closest you get to any maintainership.
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2584[17:23:57] <greycat> debbers: in Debian context, that would be a -dev package.
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2586[17:24:10] <annadane> hey at least gentoo is documented
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2588[17:24:14] <greycat> e.g. to build things that use the curses library, you need to install libncurses5-dev
2589[17:24:17] <annadane> you can do worse, i'm sure
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2591[17:24:58] <fuxxy> debbers, the headers are basically instructions for third-party packages to interface with a support package. Kindof like a user manual, but for code. If you're familiar with APIs, the idea is similar
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2593[17:25:44] <dacencora> fuxxy: hmm that's interesting. I honestly update pretty irregularly and it works pretty darn amazingly well. I just run emerge --sync once or twice a month and then emerge -avuDN @world
2594[17:25:49] <greycat> that is the oddest definition of "headerd" I've heard
2595[17:25:51] <debbers> ratrace - ah so anyone including the general public are able to upload to flatpak and snaps. There is litterally no one checjking what goes on there? That seems nice and dangerous!
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2600[17:26:12] <ratrace> debbers: yes. and there already WAS malware in a snap. some cryptominer thingy.
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2603[17:26:54] <fuxxy> greycat, that's just my interpretation. Is it incorrect?
2604[17:27:08] <ratrace> debbers: some will say "so what, it's in a container, and it won't pollute the system", but the problem is, it doesn't NEED to. plenty of malware (like spam bots, crypto miners, etc...) can function contained just fine.
2605[17:27:15] <greycat> Not incorrect... just weird. :)
2606[17:27:23] <debbers> I am guessing because of the way Linux works anything that is a distro repo is carefully checked for bugs, malware and compatibility .... ???
2607[17:27:49] <debbers> ratrace (there was malware in a snap) - I hate snaps already!
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2610[17:28:00] <dacencora> debbers: not necessarily for every distro, but for Debian -- absolutely
2611[17:28:10] <ratrace> hold on, you can't guarantee that.
2612[17:28:27] <LunaLovegood> Is there a DNS resolver app that's lightweight? I only need to retrieve the first A record for a host in a bash script. 'host' from bind9-host or 'dig' from dnsutils would each pull 39 megs of dependencies.
2613[17:28:41] <dacencora> I suppose that's true
2614[17:28:47] <dacencora> But in general
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2616[17:29:00] <greycat> LunaLovegood: even with no recommends?
2617[17:29:06] <debbers> dacencora This makes me love Debian that little bit more than I already do, what a great learning experience this chat has been.
2618[17:29:16] <jm_> LunaLovegood: getent hosts not good enough for you?
2619[17:29:32] <ratrace> debbers: dacencora: in theory, it is possible for a malicious maintainer to package stuff up, but it's also much easier to spot malicious activity, because software is not contained. that same isolation/containment that protects the host is ALSO an iron curtain for the host to peek into and see wth is going on.
2620[17:29:52] <fuxxy> debbers, dacencora the idea is that the packages are overlooked by everyone involved in the maintainer dev chain. Like any other group, it's only as comprehensive as the people involved are willing to be.
2621[17:29:58] <ratrace> maintainer = mainter of .deb files in standard debian repos
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2623[17:30:32] <debbers> greycat dacencora so I snaps and Flatpak for RetroArch but not for EmulationStation .......
2624[17:30:35] <LunaLovegood> Didn't know about getent, thanks jm_
2625[17:30:40] <jm_> LunaLovegood: no problem
2626[17:31:10] <technobi> Hello All, where would I find the person that contributed to the package? I would like to contact the elinks maintener. I mean not the original one. I'm in touch with him and he doesn't develop it anymore. However someone updated the sources in the distribution to newer version. Is that possible? I'd have something to contribute....
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2630[17:31:58] <debbers> greycat dacencora I will install the RetroArch via the commandline though, but why no emulationstation in Flatpak or snaps?
2631[17:32:04] <greycat> technobi: apt-cache show pkgname | grep Maintainer
2632[17:32:47] <technobi> Very well... thank You very much
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2635[17:32:53] <dacencora> debbers: likely because the devs haven't ported it to snap/flat
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2638[17:34:28] <debbers> dacencora .... ah OK - I wonder why not as it seems like a well liked piece of software ....
2639[17:34:47] <dacencora> debbers: replaced-url
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2644[17:35:06] <dacencora> There are .deb pre-builts or there is building from source for debian for emulationstation
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2647[17:36:32] <debbers> dacencora I will just go down the sudo apt route to install emulation station - Don't forget it'sd more safe and secure to pull from the repos ;)
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2650[17:38:32] <dacencora> debbers: unfortunately it's not in the official repo tree :/
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2652[17:39:04] <debbers> dacencora - Ah OK I am still learning ..... clearly I have a lot to learn yet!
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2659[17:39:38] <karlpinc> debbers: Yes, you need to be careful with using non-debian repos.
2660[17:39:41] <karlpinc> !don't break debian
2661[17:39:42] <dpkg> from memory, dont break debian is replaced-url
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2663[17:40:04] <InvisibleRasta> hmm
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2665[17:40:59] <debbers> I will giove all the retropie stuf / retro arch / emulation station a try later to this evening.
2666[17:41:30] <debbers> I want to say a massive thank you to everyone for being so friendly and so helpful!
2667[17:42:02] *** Quits: joepublic (~joepublic@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2668[17:42:10] <debbers> I always thought IRC places were a bit unfriedly and a place where the answer is usually just 'read the docs'
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2670[17:42:56] <greycat> depends on the questions, and who's online at the moment
2671[17:43:21] <dacencora> Yeah that's very true
2672[17:43:23] <debbers> You have all proved me wrong, so a massive thank you for your time and help.
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2674[17:43:29] <dacencora> Also depends on the channel
2675[17:44:12] <dacencora> *cough* ##slackware *cough*
2676[17:44:42] <ratrace> "hey how do I" > "look at the manpage for option X" > "oh, thanks, wow, manpages!" is acceptable kind of RTFM. "how do I..." > "RTFM NOOOB HAW HAW" is not.
2677[17:44:52] <debbers> Well #Debian seems friendly, is thartt normally the case?
2678[17:45:16] *** Quits: Henkla (~hela@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2679[17:45:25] <dacencora> I have found #debian and #gentoo to be very friendly and active
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2682[17:46:32] <debbers> Well as someone who learns best by watching and observing, man pages are little help to me unfortunatley. I can read man pages 6, 8 maybe 19 times and I still wont 'get it'
2683[17:46:36] *** Joins: Ceber (~cerberus@replaced-ip)
2684[17:47:00] <debbers> dacencora greycat ratrace are you normally in this channel?
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2688[17:47:39] <greycat> this may not be the best month to try to predict schedules
2689[17:47:49] <dacencora> debbers: actually no haha. I am usually not in this channel
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2692[17:48:49] <debbers> greycat dacencora areplaced-url
2693[17:49:20] <ratrace> debbers: this channel is very active. if you need help, pop in and there will be someone. be patient if there isn't at that particular moment.
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2696[17:51:06] <debbers> Great advuce, thank you ratrace,
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2702[17:53:10] <wrksx> I heard about debian allowing cinnamon as a default option
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2704[17:53:45] <wrksx> that's cool
2705[17:53:45] <debbers> A last topic discussion before I got, I am interested in self hosting, and finding out about software I can run on my Debian system, one other useful thing I run on my network is PiHole, does anyone have any recommendations of other useful software?
2706[17:54:05] <debbers> Anything I can do to improve Pi Hole?
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2708[17:54:33] <debbers> Anything or anywhere you would recommend as a way for me to become more confident as a Linux user?
2709[17:54:58] <wrksx> Using linux daily is a great way to get confident.
2710[17:54:59] <annadane> debbers, i'd probably read replaced-url
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2712[17:55:08] <annadane> that's for linux in general, and for debian:
2713[17:55:10] <annadane> !newcomer
2714[17:55:10] <dpkg> Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: replaced-url
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2719[17:57:25] <wrksx> debbers: about self hosting, you mean you want to host services open to the internet?
2720[17:58:17] <debbers> Thanks for the tip wrksx I do use Linux when and where I can, and I am making the switch to using more and more OpenSource software :)
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2723[17:58:46] <debbers> annadane, thanks for the link, I will take a look :)
2724[17:59:09] <fuxxy> debbers, I'd wholly recommend spinning up an ESXi install on a spare machine, and use that as a homelab. It will give you many, many opportunities to interconnect things that you may not have had before
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2726[18:00:10] <debbers> wrkx Selfhosting = running things at home on an old machine and making them avaliable over the internet. Eg. Nextcloud .....
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2728[18:01:32] <debbers> fuxxy I do mean to progress to using a virtual machine, right now I use a number of raspberry Pi's and an old thin client for learning linux on.
2729[18:01:40] <greycat> annadane: wow, this "linuxcommand.org" web site is really bad... there's a set of nagivation links on the left hand side, but they do nothing at all, if you didn't come in through the "front page"
2730[18:02:02] <fuxxy> debbers, Pi's are great, but you're limiting yourself with the ARM platform
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2733[18:03:03] <debbers> fuxxy I don't suppose you know, could I run VMs on an old thinclient or would the specs be too limited?
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2735[18:03:24] <fuxxy> debbers, I wouldnt
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2737[18:03:50] <debbers> fuxxy Yes I feel the Pi platform is limited, That's why I moved to a ThinClient, next stop for me a hope is an Intel NUC.
2738[18:03:51] <fuxxy> With ESXi, specifically, you need dedicated, upgradable storage, as well as RAM
2739[18:04:19] <fuxxy> Even an old Intel Core series on a proper motherboard is preferable
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2741[18:04:47] <debbers> The ThinClient I have runs an Intel Atom I think ....
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2743[18:04:58] <debbers> I'd only spin up a singfle VM at a time,
2744[18:05:06] <debbers> single*
2745[18:05:16] <fuxxy> debbers, the idea is to run multiple simultaneously
2746[18:05:46] <fuxxy> otherwise you won't have a need to lean "how do I utilize a mysql database on another machine"
2747[18:05:50] <fuxxy> stuff like that
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2750[18:06:52] <debbers> fuxxy Yes I understand the idea is to run multiple, but for my use purposes, I could say have one sytem with Retropie, one to learn programming on, one to do X, then I aren't borking everything when something goes wrong with one of the VMs .... ??
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2753[18:07:48] <fuxxy> You could do that simply by swapping storage devices
2754[18:08:02] <debbers> fuxxy, I dont think I am ready for MySQL yet
2755[18:08:32] <wrksx> debbers: bad mindset =) you are ready to take over the world mate
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2757[18:09:02] <fuxxy> It's up to you. It was just an example, but the idea is to give you goals you wouldnt normally have in a single instance
2758[18:09:30] <debbers> I guess I could swap storage devices, but that means having to buy lots of storage devices and having them cluttering up the place when I am not using them
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2761[18:10:02] <debbers> wrksx "if you think you can or you think you can't you are right" ;)
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2763[18:10:26] <fuxxy> debbers, If I were attempting to accomplish that goal (for a student or offspring, for instance), I would buy a handful of USB flash drives and use those for bootable storage
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2765[18:10:43] <debbers> fuxxy, I appreciate all the suggestions you are sending my way, I'm not intentially being obstructive! I appreciate the examples you are giving me :)
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2767[18:10:54] <graphine> moin
2768[18:11:10] <fuxxy> Use a NAS with "big" storage, and use the USB drives for the OS
2769[18:11:21] <graphine> no one helped me in the freenode channel can someone tell me how to register please
2770[18:11:40] <fuxxy> . /msg nickserv register password
2771[18:11:49] <graphine> thanks
2772[18:11:53] *** Joins: R0nd (~Rond@replaced-ip)
2773[18:12:03] <wrksx> "in the freenode channel" =)
2774[18:12:06] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2775[18:12:46] <wrksx> is there #freenode? never even though about checking it out
2776[18:13:01] <fuxxy> there is
2777[18:13:01] <graphine> yes it was my first idea
2778[18:13:44] <e> you were there for 5 minutes. we all have jobs...
2779[18:14:12] <graphine> all?
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2781[18:14:15] <fuxxy> debbers, and don't forget, breaking things also gives you the opportunity to fix them as well
2782[18:14:25] <graphine> thanks fuxxy
2783[18:14:31] *** Quits: DaRock (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2784[18:14:46] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
2785[18:14:47] <fuxxy> de nada
2786[18:14:48] *** R0nd is now known as Rond
2787[18:14:56] <graphine> how do i put someone on ignore fuxxy ?
2788[18:15:20] <fuxxy> . /ignore nickname
2789[18:15:22] <debbers> fuxxy - So is ESXi the software that takes over the whole system and acts at the OS, to allow you to launch VMs? I know there is one Hypervisor that workls like this and I forget which it is ......
2790[18:15:22] *** Joins: hugh_marera (~hugh_mare@replaced-ip)
2791[18:15:34] <graphine> your stalking is not appreciated e
2792[18:15:36] <fuxxy> debbers, ESXi.
2793[18:16:04] <fuxxy> debbers, a "true" hypervisor is installed on the bare metal, and allows you to allocate system resources to the virtual machine containers
2794[18:16:06] *** Quits: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2795[18:16:19] <fuxxy> google "bare metal hypervisors" for more options
2796[18:16:22] <debbers> Due to using Raspberry Pi I am all to familiar with the multiple storage method. I have lots of MicroSD cards around my house, the logistics of managing where they are and what is on them is a nightmare :D
2797[18:16:52] <wuyx> hello, I cant connect wifi network through my tp-link wn722n adapter with ar9271 chip, does anyone know how to make it work on Debian? Thanks
2798[18:16:54] <fuxxy> debbers, you may actually have use for a boot/PXE server
2799[18:16:59] <graphine> hope people here are often like fuxxy and less like e
2800[18:17:01] <graphine> :-)
2801[18:17:11] *** Joins: prince1 (~prince@replaced-ip)
2802[18:17:29] <fuxxy> debbers, you can load lots of bootable installs on the PXE server, and through rules which you decide, can boot from whatever you want, all over the network
2803[18:17:36] <debbers> I usually consult some place like this when I break things ......
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2805[18:17:39] *** Quits: Whyvn (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2806[18:17:43] <annadane> wuyx, does anything show up on sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware?
2807[18:17:55] <graphine> take good care fuxxy god bless you stay healthy :-)
2808[18:17:56] <debbers> fuxxy I've never quite been sure what BareMetal is .... please enlighten me :)
2809[18:18:03] *** Parts: graphine (~demo@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
2810[18:18:13] <fuxxy> "Bare Metal" is the generic term used for the actual, physical hardware
2811[18:19:12] <debbers> fuxxy I'm not familair with boot/PXE server please can you say more about what they are and what they do .... ?
2812[18:19:44] *** Joins: Guest27 (4514a0b9@replaced-ip)
2813[18:19:49] <fuxxy> basically, whatever is installed on "bare metal" has access to EVERYTHING on the physical system. The Virtual Machines installed within are just files on the hypervisor's storage
2814[18:19:56] <wuyx> yes
2815[18:20:00] *** Guest27 is now known as ottomang7
2816[18:20:38] <annadane> wuyx, can you maybe paste the output to paste.debian.net?
2817[18:20:41] <debbers> fuxxy - think I need to look in to PXE/boot servers I am not sure I am understanding what they do.
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2821[18:20:45] <wuyx> see, i've installed the firmware of it,but i simply can't make it work, it doesn't connect to the wifi, but it's turned on
2822[18:21:11] <wuyx> the firmware is firmware-ath9k-htc
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2825[18:22:01] <wuyx> well, honestly speaking i'm not familiar with debian, i just got on it for a week
2826[18:22:25] *** Quits: prince1 (~prince@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2827[18:22:51] <annadane> okay, i'll leave it to others to diagnose, then; often the problem is missing firmware
2828[18:23:06] <debbers> fuxxy not sure I am understanding bare metal either - but thank you for trying to explain it to me.
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2832[18:23:48] <wuyx> thanks
2833[18:23:55] <annadane> bare metal in general just means running on an actual computer and not virtualizaed
2834[18:24:05] <annadane> i can't spell, but anyway
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2836[18:24:30] <fuxxy> debbers, replaced-url
2837[18:24:34] <debbers> Fuxxy - you seem very knowledgeable about computers and networking - where did you learn all your knowledge, do you work in I.T by any chance?
2838[18:24:57] <fuxxy> debbers, I do not. I'm a chemical industry operator
2839[18:25:02] <debbers> annadane so bare metal means running on a physical computer that you can touch and see in the 'real world'
2840[18:25:29] *** Quits: hugh_marera (~hugh_mare@replaced-ip) (Quit: hugh_marera)
2841[18:25:46] <fuxxy> debbers, essentially, yes. However, VM's qualify in your definition as well
2842[18:26:17] <annadane> there's certain differences when you run something "natively" compared to when you abstract it by virtualizing
2843[18:26:35] <fuxxy> debbers, think of "Bare Metal" as the first layer. That's what's booted when the computer is first powered on
2844[18:26:41] <debbers> So EXSi runs on a physical computer but does, it take over the whole system and run as the OS, or does it run ontop of an OS?
2845[18:27:23] <fuxxy> the hypervisor (ESXi or otherwise) - will be the only operating system installed on the machine
2846[18:27:50] *** Joins: sysbrk (~mr_reeds@replaced-ip)
2847[18:27:53] <wuyx> What does paste.debian.net do?
2848[18:28:04] <debbers> Something that is booted when the computer is powered on . Like a BIOS?
2849[18:28:17] <fuxxy> everything else will be installed to 'containers' that the hypervisor manages
2850[18:28:39] <debbers> I have seen Hypervisors that run inside an OS I think VirtualBox runs ontop of the OS like an app?
2851[18:28:54] *** Quits: fightthewalrus (maomkosdj@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2852[18:28:55] <fuxxy> BIOS is the initial set of instructions that tells the hardware where to look after the initial tests pass
2853[18:29:18] <debbers> BIOS is baremetal though no?
2854[18:29:38] <fuxxy> debbers, Those are typically called hypervisors (and fall in to the category, I suppose), but they're technically jails
2855[18:29:39] <debbers> BIOS is the first thing that runs when you switch the computer on as far as I understand?
2856[18:29:58] <fuxxy> correct. BIOS is a physical chip on the mainboard
2857[18:30:15] <fuxxy> Basic Input Output System
2858[18:30:28] <annadane> wuyx, it's just a paste site that allows us to see your output as pasting long lines to the chat is inconvenient for everyone
2859[18:30:35] <annadane> we prefer it to pastebin.com
2860[18:31:13] <fuxxy> it initalizes the hardware, runs some tests, performs initial configuration, and then hands the boot process to the specified boot device
2861[18:31:37] <debbers> I think I have got lost with the thread of this conversation - so Does EXSi work like an OS that takes over the whole machine or is it more like an app that runs inside an OS?
2862[18:31:56] <fuxxy> ESXI will take over the entire machine
2863[18:32:26] *** Quits: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2864[18:32:45] <debbers> Ah yes EXSi must be the software I have seen in the past where you press the "Playy button" to start each VM - I really like the look of it.
2865[18:32:58] <debbers> Just watching your video about PXE/DHCP now :)
2866[18:33:24] <wuyx> annadane, i just found out that i can connect the wifi after i turn it to monitor mode with airmon-ng, and then turn it back to Managed mode. Odd
2867[18:33:54] <fuxxy> The only GUI ESXi will present is a black and yellow text screen. It tries to be as minimal as possible, to ensure as many resources as possible are available to the VMs
2868[18:34:07] <wuyx> So is this is because i didn't make the settings correct?
2869[18:34:17] <annadane> i don't know
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2871[18:35:14] <wuyx> On Ubuntu it works perfect, i just cant understand why it doesn't work on debian.Good thing is that i have a backup adapter
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2877[18:36:36] <ratrace> wuyx: one thing to consider is that ubuntu adds so called "SAUCE" patches which are specific to Ubuntu and not (yet) upstreamed, for hardware compatibility
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2880[18:37:53] <annadane> "Imagine there's no closed hardware, it's easy if you try..."
2881[18:38:01] <debbers> fuxxy - so PXE looks pretty magical and special. Am I right in thinking it can pipe out the operating system to any computer network card that runs thePXE?
2882[18:38:07] <karlpinc> wuyx: Can you give us the pciid of the device from lspci -nn (as root)?
2883[18:38:17] <wuyx> i try
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2885[18:38:59] <fuxxy> debbers, it doesnt pipe anything, it just presents the same files a HDD would present to a booting system, but over the network
2886[18:39:10] <karlpinc> debbers: You can boot any os you can deliver a boot loader for, and an os for the boot loader to load.
2887[18:39:22] *** Quits: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip) (Quit: saundkim)
2888[18:39:30] <debbers> So for example let's say I have 3 OSes on the PXE sever MacOS Win10 and Win XP. If I want to work n WinXP on every decive on my network, I don't have to install it on each client I can just get the PXE server to pipe it to the device I want to work on?
2889[18:39:58] <fuxxy> debbers, correct. You'd have to craft a boot menu for that though
2890[18:40:19] <debbers> fuxxy so how would i find out if my client devices support PXE?
2891[18:40:24] <wuyx> karlpinc, i which line should i pay attention to? i cant find anything related to the wireless adapter?
2892[18:40:25] *** Joins: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip)
2893[18:40:50] <fuxxy> The thinclient does, that's the idea behind a thinclient
2894[18:41:07] <fuxxy> but you can google the system model and find out
2895[18:41:15] *** Quits: finalalpha (~finalbeta@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2896[18:41:17] <karlpinc> wuyx: Should be there, unless it's a usb wireless adapter.
2897[18:41:28] <wuyx> Wait, i just found an output that says "[ 1509.093877] usb 2-1.1: ath9k_htc: Firmware ath9k_htc/htc_9271-1.4.0.fw requested"
2898[18:41:40] <debbers> fuxxy Oh OK well I guess having multiple easy to swap out my OSes on my thin client would be super useful,
2899[18:41:48] <wuyx> indeed it is
2900[18:41:53] <fuxxy> even devices that don't natively support PXE are capable of PXE boot, with a locally installed PXE loader
2901[18:41:58] <karlpinc> wuyx: Now you need to do "pciid -nn" to find the number inside the [] braces.
2902[18:41:59] <wuyx> it's a usb adapter
2903[18:42:04] <debbers> So can I make a save state of the OS and send it back to the PXE server?
2904[18:42:26] <wuyx> on my desktop box
2905[18:42:32] <karlpinc> wuyx: Humm....
2906[18:42:32] *** Quits: a0z (~a0z@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2907[18:42:52] <greycat> !ar9271
2908[18:42:52] <dpkg> ath9k_htc is a Linux kernel driver for Atheros AR9271 and AR7010-based 802.11n USB wireless LAN devices, introduced in Linux 2.6.35. Firmware is required, ask me about <atheros firmware> to provide. replaced-url
2909[18:43:05] <debbers> If I can get PXE to run on all my devices I would be tempted to create a PXE server. I can see how it would be useful .
2910[18:43:21] <debbers> I'd quite like to be able to swap out OSes across al my systems ....
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2912[18:44:32] <karlpinc> wuyx: So do you have the firmware-atheros package installed?
2913[18:44:45] <wuyx> yes
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2915[18:45:03] <wuyx> karlpinc, i don't even have pciid
2916[18:45:07] <wuyx> not even in /sbin
2917[18:45:14] <greycat> it's lspci -nn
2918[18:45:20] <karlpinc> debbers: Well, to really "swap out" you also need disk images served over the network, so your OS has a disk with programs on it.
2919[18:45:25] <wuyx> okay...
2920[18:46:33] <karlpinc> wuyx: If you have the right firmware, maybe a newer kernel will help. (?) It wouldn't hurt to follow the instructions at backports.debian.org and install a newer "linux-image" package. You can install it and keep your current one and decide which to use at boot.
2921[18:47:03] <karlpinc> wuyx: But I've not really been following along. It is also possible that what you already have works, and is just not being configured properly or something.
2922[18:47:11] *** Quits: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2923[18:47:16] <karlpinc> wuyx: I'm not really the person to debug wireless issues.
2924[18:47:17] *** Quits: Mazhive (~Mazhive@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2925[18:47:38] <wuyx> yes, i think it's just not configured properly
2926[18:47:42] <debbers> karlpinc is the PXE not sending disk images (.ISOs)?
2927[18:47:45] <wuyx> but i thought it's automatic?
2928[18:48:34] <karlpinc> wuyx: You only need a newer kernel if your hardware is "too new". How recently was it introduce by the manufacturer?
2929[18:48:39] <wuyx> you know, i have a mercury mw150us adapter and it works perfect on debian
2930[18:49:00] <wuyx> No ,it's a 2009 machine
2931[18:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1581
2932[18:49:14] *** Quits: tombs_ (~tombs@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2933[18:49:31] <debbers> fuxxy are you still here?
2934[18:49:32] <wuyx> i assembled with only 100 dollars
2935[18:49:38] *** Joins: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip)
2936[18:49:45] <fuxxy> debbers, I am. Scripting
2937[18:49:48] <karlpinc> debbers: No. It is sending a boot loader and a kernel. If you want the kernel to run from a disk shared over the network then that has to be configured into the kernel's boot parameters (or whatever the kernel uses to decide what disk to use as root/whatever MS Windows does.)
2938[18:50:07] <karlpinc> wuyx: Should work.
2939[18:50:30] <debbers> Well I think my chats have dried up. Thanks for helping me great to chat with you all :)
2940[18:50:32] *** Joins: john__ (~ritzton@replaced-ip)
2941[18:50:33] <karlpinc> wuyx: But network interfaces don't "just work". They have to be told how they are supposed to talk to the network.
2942[18:50:44] <debbers> Bye and hoepfully spealk to you all again soon :)
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2945[18:51:14] <karlpinc> wuyx: You could share /etc/network/interfaces, or whatever networkmanager uses if you use network manager.
2946[18:51:17] <wuyx> it works, it just cann't connect to the essid( or Access Point), and i don't know why
2947[18:51:21] <karlpinc> !tell wuyx about paste
2948[18:51:29] *** Joins: chele (~chele@replaced-ip)
2949[18:52:21] <karlpinc> wuyx: That's the sort of stuff I don't often deal with. Maybe if you provide more detail, like errors that show up in the logs or something, somebody can help.
2950[18:52:27] <trek00> debbers: see you later! :)
2951[18:52:49] <debbers> Thanks trek00, bye now *waves*
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2954[18:53:19] <wuyx> No error, nothing, you know, like, there is a circle just spinning all the time and doesn't connect to the wifi
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2959[18:55:00] <trek00> wuyx: to spot errors usually i open a terminal and type: sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog
2960[18:55:09] *** Quits: debbers (3307464b@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2961[18:55:19] <trek00> wuyx: then try to connect to a wireless network and see if it prints new messages
2962[18:55:54] <wuyx> ok, i'll be back online in a short period
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2966[18:58:12] <b1ack0p> is this the correct debian iso with firmware? replaced-url
2967[18:58:25] *** Quits: Prokofiev (~Sergei@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2968[18:58:41] *** Quits: iank_ (~iank3@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - ##replaced-url
2969[18:58:44] <trek00> b1ack0p: yes!
2970[18:58:59] <trek00> b1ack0p: for 32 bit systems
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2978[19:07:06] <wuyx> karlpinc, hey, be back online, i just paste logs to the paste.debian.org
2979[19:07:12] <karlpinc> b1ack0p: Most people have 64 bit systems....
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2983[19:08:19] <karlpinc> wuyx: You have to give us the url.
2984[19:08:39] <wuyx> replaced-url
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2987[19:09:09] <b1ack0p> karlpinc: i have 32bit system :p
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2992[19:13:00] <fuxxy> in bash, I can create a variable that returns a version number. I can then create /another/ variable that strips the last octect off the version from the first variable. Is there a way to do the same thing but from a single variable? replaced-url
2993[19:13:58] <greycat> if you've got newver=${ver*.} right now, but you want to have only one variable, just change it to ver=${ver*.}
2994[19:14:24] <greycat> or %.*} or whatever it is
2995[19:14:31] <fuxxy> so just use the same name?
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2997[19:15:35] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip)
2998[19:16:11] <trek00> wuyx: i don't understand why it disconnect just 5 seconds after it got authenticated: "aborting authentication with 8c:a6:df:d6:5f:de by local choice"
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3000[19:16:50] *** Quits: jazz (~jazz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
3001[19:17:39] <fuxxy> I'm looking for a single command that will strip the last octect of the version off, that I can tack on the initial variable. I'm not sure how to add that %.* to the initial variable
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3005[19:18:27] <wuyx> trek00, if you don't know, only god knows
3006[19:18:35] *** Joins: argus (~tls@replaced-ip)
3007[19:18:45] <greycat> replaced-url
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3009[19:18:50] <b1ack0p> i am going to create bootable usb key with rufus on windows. it is asking if i should write ISO image mode (recommended) or DD image mode ?
3010[19:19:12] <b1ack0p> which one is recommended?
3011[19:19:41] <greycat> unicorn:~$ ver=10.2.3; ver=foo-${ver%.*}-bar; echo "$ver"
3012[19:19:46] <greycat> foo-10.2-bar
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3018[19:22:27] <b1ack0p> ok i will write in iso mode
3019[19:22:41] <b1ack0p> how much hdd capacity is enough for debian 10.3?
3020[19:22:45] <b1ack0p> 15?
3021[19:22:59] <b1ack0p> i have 60gb total but i will dual boot with windows
3022[19:23:02] <b1ack0p> 2k
3023[19:23:06] <b1ack0p> win2000
3024[19:23:31] <trek00> wuyx: it may be you have networkmanager, systemd-networkd and/or wpa_supplicant running? you need only one of these or they will conflict each other
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3026[19:24:24] <trek00> b1ack0p: 10gb should be enough (actually I use only 4GB)
3027[19:24:31] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Quit: deadlightbulb.com)
3028[19:24:38] <b1ack0p> trek00: with DE or without desktop?
3029[19:24:38] <noway> dont forget about the swap
3030[19:24:50] <b1ack0p> noway: it is old laptop.
3031[19:24:53] <b1ack0p> 1.5gb ram
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3034[19:24:59] <trek00> b1ack0p: with a minimal DE and no games :)
3035[19:25:03] <b1ack0p> xfce
3036[19:25:07] <b1ack0p> 10 enough i think
3037[19:25:11] <b1ack0p> i will just connect here :p
3038[19:25:26] <b1ack0p> i wanna type on it here in irssi :p
3039[19:25:28] <noway> hehe
3040[19:25:34] <trek00> :)
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3042[19:25:54] <b1ack0p> it is ibm thinkpad t42 with fantastic keyboard so typing is really fun on it :p
3043[19:26:06] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3044[19:26:11] <b1ack0p> unfortunately it has QWERTZ swiss-german keyboard.. not easy to type
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3048[19:26:41] *** Joins: root (~root@replaced-ip)
3049[19:26:44] <b1ack0p> maybe i can stream 240p yt videos :p
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3053[19:29:34] <trek00> wuyx: it may be a networkmanager issue, may be you can try uninstalling it and installing wicd
3054[19:30:04] <trek00> wuyx: but i don't really know if it will fix your issue
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3056[19:30:21] <wuyx> i just found a "networking" service
3057[19:30:24] *** Quits: liron_ (~liron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3058[19:30:35] <wuyx> along with the network-manager
3059[19:30:59] <trek00> wuyx: the networking service should be a basic service, do not disable it
3060[19:31:17] <wuyx> oh, i didn't
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3063[19:32:05] <wuyx> does it have anything to do with the interface's name? like mine isn't wlan0
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3066[19:34:09] <wuyx> What's NetworkManager-dispatcher.service?
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3068[19:35:36] <trek00> wuyx: may be you can add wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no to your networkmanager.conf as said here replaced-url
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3071[19:37:58] <wuyx> I can't even connect to the site because international network traffic here in China is so limited
3072[19:38:00] <fuxxy> aha, I figured out why this script is killing my ssh console
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3075[19:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1575
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3079[19:40:02] <wuyx> i guess i have to live with it, thanks trek00 & karlpink for your help.But I have to go to sleep....Bye!
3080[19:40:03] <fuxxy> I should be using 'return' instead of 'exit'
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3082[19:40:17] *** Parts: wuyx (~idec@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.3")
3083[19:41:17] <trek00> fuxxy: return is used to terminate a function, exit will terminate the script
3084[19:41:55] <fuxxy> the problem is, when the exit code is triggered from the script, i get kicked off of ssh as well
3085[19:42:20] <trek00> you can omit exit if you don't need the exit code
3086[19:42:24] <fuxxy> since I started the script from the ssh connection
3087[19:42:39] <trek00> fuxxy: how you run the script?
3088[19:42:40] *** Joins: mzajc (~marko@replaced-ip)
3089[19:42:42] <fuxxy> I don't want the script to continue if the exit code is reached, that's the point
3090[19:43:08] <fuxxy> trek00, it will eventually be ran from cron, but I'm testing with the shell
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3092[19:43:30] <fuxxy> . /path/to/script.sh
3093[19:43:34] <trek00> fuxxy: if you run it with sh scriptname.sh it's ok, if you source it not
3094[19:43:51] <trek00> fuxxy: you should run with sh /path/to/script.sh
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3096[19:44:03] <fuxxy> ahh, okay
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3099[19:46:01] <greycat> or simply /path/to/script, if you chmod +x it, which you SHOULD.
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3105[19:48:06] <fuxxy> so the exit code wasn't the problem, it was a symptom. The thing is, I had a failure condition that triggered the exit code, that wasn't accounted for
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3107[19:48:51] <trek00> fuxxy: if you run sh -x /path/to/script.sh you will see each command executed, just to debug
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3109[19:49:55] <fuxxy> basically, the script was looking at a conf file for a string, and used that string to see if a file existed on disk. I should be instead matching the version I asked about earlier to what's on the conf file, and THEN matching it to a file on disk
3110[19:51:50] <fuxxy> hmm
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3114[19:54:07] <trek00> fuxxy: paste your script, may be we can help :)
3115[19:54:21] *** Quits: PyR3X (~PyR3X@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
3116[19:54:26] <fuxxy> I'd need to sanitize first
3117[19:54:26] <trek00> fuxxy: (paste on paste site, not here)
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3129[19:58:12] <wrksx> I've got a .rar file to extract/open. Is there a way to do that safely?
3130[19:58:35] *** Quits: troys (~troy@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
3131[19:58:49] <greycat> install unrar, and use it
3132[19:58:50] *** Joins: CombatVet (~c4@replaced-ip)
3133[19:59:11] <greycat> (it's in non-free)
3134[19:59:25] <Thorax2015> Does mxlinux not come with an archive manager?
3135[19:59:35] <greycat> how would we know what mx linux comes with
3136[19:59:42] <oerheks> Thorax2015, interesting.
3137[19:59:50] <wrksx> lol
3138[20:00:16] <Thorax2015> Oops haha
3139[20:00:24] <Thorax2015> Wrong channel
3140[20:00:26] <oerheks> Thorax2015, have you been on distrowatch stats?
3141[20:00:42] <Thorax2015> oerheks, Why do you ask that?
3142[20:00:51] <wrksx> That .rar file is from an unknown source
3143[20:01:05] <wrksx> and I'm not sure it's safe to use unrar
3144[20:01:09] <wrksx> is it?
3145[20:01:17] <greycat> *plonk*
3146[20:01:56] <wrksx> Thing is I have absolutely no idea how rar works and I would just like to see the files.
3147[20:02:53] <wrksx> I thought about launching unrar using the nobody user in a directory owned by nobody. Does that make any sense or is that stupid
3148[20:03:18] <oerheks> unrar l List archive content/ e Extract files to current directory. what more do you need from 'man unrar'
3149[20:03:22] <trek00> wrksx: it's not stupid, i've created a user exactly for those things
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3163[20:08:42] <ratrace> wrksx: it's a safe approach. a vuln in unrar + crafted package = executed code
3164[20:09:12] <wrksx> ratrace: exactly my fear
3165[20:09:22] *** faceface_ is now known as faceface
3166[20:09:39] <karlpinc> wrksx: I like ratrace's approach. Make a new user. su to it to unrar.
3167[20:09:39] <wrksx> trek00: tyx =) im not crazy
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3169[20:10:22] *** Quits: sauvin (sauvin@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3170[20:10:42] <wrksx> I used sudo -u nobody untar [...] in a folder owned by nobody
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3177[20:14:08] <ice999> when i try to login with nginx basic auth i get "open() "/etc/nginx/.htpasswd" failed (13: Permission denied)", and throws 500 internal server error in the browser; what could be the issue? it was working before
3178[20:14:45] <greycat> "Permission denied" is really clear. Try looking at the permissions.
3179[20:14:49] *** Joins: falconshinji (~nix@replaced-ip)
3180[20:15:02] <greycat> (of the file *AND* the directories leading to it)
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3184[20:16:17] <lwp> b1ack0p, you must use the rufus DD mode, not iso mode
3185[20:16:20] <lwp> !rufus
3186[20:16:20] <dpkg> rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. Debian CD/DVD images MUST be written in "DD Mode," otherwise it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
3187[20:16:27] *** Joins: zapatista (~zapatista@replaced-ip)
3188[20:16:31] *** Quits: liron_ (~liron@replaced-ip) (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:ssl3_get_record:wrong version number)
3189[20:16:46] <jordanm> ice999: also check your audit.log if you have SELinux enabled
3190[20:16:55] *** Joins: openface (~openface@replaced-ip)
3191[20:16:56] *** Joins: liron_ (~liron@replaced-ip)
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3193[20:17:24] <b1ack0p> lwp: thanx for late response :p
3194[20:17:33] <b1ack0p> i used iso but i can write again with dd
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3198[20:17:57] <lwp> b1ack0p, welcome. yes, you will save yourself lots of problems by using DD instead
3199[20:17:59] <ice999> greycat, i set it to 777 for testing but still
3200[20:18:04] *** Joins: prince1 (~prince@replaced-ip)
3201[20:18:06] <ice999> jordanm, nothing in the audit log
3202[20:18:07] <greycat> STTOOPPPPP DOING THAT
3203[20:18:10] <greycat> !777
3204[20:18:10] <dpkg> 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>.
3205[20:18:16] *** Quits: neldogz (~neldogz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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3207[20:18:38] <greycat> Make the permissions CORRECT. Make them what they SHOULD BE. Not what a moron would make them.
3208[20:18:44] *** Quits: colttt_ (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3209[20:19:08] <greycat> make nginx is one of the programs that will abort if the permissions are wrong, just like ssh does
3210[20:19:12] <greycat> maybe*
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3212[20:20:09] <greycat> I mean, it doesn't *look* like it based on the error message, but that's still no freaking excuse to break your permissions even MORE.
3213[20:20:31] <trek00> ice999: chmod 644 should be better instead of 777
3214[20:21:03] <ice999> alright i did that now what about the permission error?
3215[20:21:08] <greycat> Not on the directory, of course.
3216[20:21:22] <greycat> You remember, when I told you to check the directories as well as the file?
3217[20:21:28] <greycat> You wouldn't set 644 on a directory.
3218[20:21:40] <trek00> yeah, 755 on directories
3219[20:21:43] <wrksx> chmod -R 777 /
3220[20:21:47] <wrksx> ?
3221[20:21:47] <trek00> nooo
3222[20:21:56] <wrksx> oh I misread =)
3223[20:21:57] *** Joins: Cecil (~cecil@replaced-ip)
3224[20:22:11] <trek00> chmod -R is evil
3225[20:22:47] *** Quits: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip) (Quit: saundkim)
3226[20:22:50] <annadane> !777
3227[20:22:51] <dpkg> 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>.
3228[20:22:52] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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3233[20:23:32] <annadane> oh. i'm slow.
3234[20:23:35] <fuxxy> Is there a guide somewhere for converting a Debian system from MBR bios to EFI? (This is an ESXi VM, so I'd like NOT to reinstall)
3235[20:23:43] <ice999> greycat, replaced-url
3236[20:23:43] <annadane> scrollback exists
3237[20:23:53] <wrksx> I never had any permission issues after having 777ed my root
3238[20:24:08] <annadane> because everyone is allowed to do everything
3239[20:24:17] <wrksx> Joking mate ;)
3240[20:24:25] <trek00> :p
3241[20:24:26] <greycat> ice999: ok, you see how the permissions on "nginx" are missing the "other" bits?
3242[20:24:29] *** Joins: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip)
3243[20:24:35] <annadane> i use xfce, not mate
3244[20:24:43] <greycat> that means only the directory's owner and group-owner can get there
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3250[20:26:39] <ice999> thanks greycat
3251[20:27:13] <dob1> !ftp must die
3252[20:27:14] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE! replaced-url
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3254[20:27:36] *** Joins: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip)
3255[20:27:38] <ratrace> ice999: instead make the file owned by root:replaced-url
3256[20:28:12] <trek00> yeah
3257[20:28:16] *** Quits: Raptocop (~admin@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3258[20:28:24] <greycat> it's not like http basic auth is actually secure...
3259[20:28:53] *** Joins: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip)
3260[20:29:37] *** Quits: pagetelegram (~pageteleg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3261[20:29:56] <wrksx> greycat: How is it unsecure? I honestly thought it could be okay if not used in plain http
3262[20:30:05] <ratrace> it's just auth, the security of it is orthogonal to the token itself
3263[20:30:37] *** Quits: Xyle (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
3264[20:30:52] <greycat> if someone's breaking into your box to read your .htpasswd file, chances are they're breaking in as replaced-url
3265[20:31:10] <ice999> ratrace, i did that but still have permission problem if o+x not there
3266[20:31:15] <ratrace> if they break in as replaced-url
3267[20:31:23] <wrksx> lol
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3269[20:31:46] <greycat> ice999: the process that wants to read the file must have x permissions on all the directories in the path up to the file, and r permission on the file
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3272[20:32:26] <ratrace> ice999: what greycat said. replaced-url
3273[20:32:30] *** Joins: ddavid (~Dennis@replaced-ip)
3274[20:32:34] *** Joins: mr_machina (~user@replaced-ip)
3275[20:33:08] <greycat> so if you want to tighten things up, you could do "chown root:replaced-url
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3278[20:34:39] <ocx32> hello, debian 9 comes with ffmpeg 3.2, how can i upgrade to 3.4 please?
3279[20:34:45] <ratrace> ice999: default on debian is root:root and 755 on /etc/nginx tho. so someone or something changed that. make sure it doesn't change that back again (if eg. you used some ansible play or whatever)
3280[20:34:49] <greycat> ,v ffmpeg
3281[20:34:50] <judd> Package: ffmpeg on amd64 -- stretch: 7:3.2.14-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 7:3.2.14-1~deb9u1; buster: 7:4.1.4-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 7:4.1.4-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 7:4.2.2-1+b1; sid: 7:4.2.2-1+b1; stretch-multimedia: 10:3.3.9-dmo1+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 10:4.1.5-dmo1+deb10u1; bullseye-multimedia: 10:4.2.2-dmo6; sid-multimedia: 10:4.2.2-dmo6
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3283[20:35:22] <greycat> would 4.1.4 suffice, or does it *have* to be 3.4?
3284[20:35:40] <ocx32> greatgatsby yes i can do with 4.1.4
3285[20:35:50] <greycat> dpkg, stretch->buster
3286[20:35:51] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
3287[20:35:51] <ocx32> how can i install it with apt ?
3288[20:35:57] <greycat> Upgrade to Debian 10.
3289[20:36:06] <ocx32> i need to stay on 9
3290[20:36:21] <wrksx> lol greycat
3291[20:36:41] <sponix2ipfw> greycat: I thought that multimedia repo shut down. I must be thinking of Ubuntu or something
3292[20:36:44] <ocx32> ?
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3295[20:36:56] <greycat> we just wish it would
3296[20:37:11] <ocx32> i didnt understand
3297[20:37:14] <ocx32> cant i ?
3298[20:37:26] <wrksx> ocx32: he just said upgrade to Debian 10
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3300[20:37:35] <ocx32> i cant
3301[20:37:39] <wrksx> and I found this a funny answer to your questiopn
3302[20:38:02] <ratrace> ocx32: then backport it.
3303[20:38:04] <ratrace> !ssb
3304[20:38:04] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
3305[20:38:12] <ocx32> can i use this add-apt-repository ppa:jonathonf/ffmpeg-4
3306[20:38:29] <ocx32> ratrace can i install that ^ ?
3307[20:38:31] <ratrace> ocx32: this is not ubuntu
3308[20:38:33] <sponix2ipfw> ocx32: if you are on Ubuntu
3309[20:38:33] <greycat> You're willing to use RANDOM CRAP REPOSITORIES FROM THE WEB but not to upgrade to the current stable relase.
3310[20:38:36] <greycat> what.
3311[20:38:38] <ocx32> i am on debian
3312[20:38:53] <wrksx> ocx32: some distros are all about install anything whatever but not debian
3313[20:38:57] <ocx32> i cant afford a downtime
3314[20:39:04] <greycat> *plonk*
3315[20:39:25] <ratrace> ocx32: ppa are for ubuntu
3316[20:39:41] <wrksx> run ffmpeg in a container
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3318[20:39:47] <ocx32> ratrace can you point me to some ?backport
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3321[20:40:14] <trek00> ocx32: best thing you can do is to compile it yourself, see the dpkg answare on backport
3322[20:40:40] <greycat> backporting something with as many deps as that sounds kinda nightmarish to me...
3323[20:40:45] <ratrace> ocx32: no, you must do it yourself, see the bot's (dpkg) response above. meanwhile, indeed a container might save you
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3325[20:41:11] <greycat> yes, installing Debian 10 in a chroot might be easier than backporting ffmpeg
3326[20:41:27] <ocx32> what if i install a .deb ffmpeg file ?
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3328[20:42:07] *** Quits: chrissl (~chris@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3329[20:42:46] <ocx32> replaced-url
3330[20:42:54] <ratrace> ocx32: you have only THREE solutions: 1) upgrade to Buster. 2) use a Buster chroot/container 3) use a docker, or a snap replaced-url
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3332[20:43:35] <sponix2ipfw> ratrace: or 4, do the backport
3333[20:43:47] <ratrace> apt install snapd ; snap install ffmpeg
3334[20:44:08] <ratrace> sponix2ipfw: oh yeh
3335[20:44:44] <ratrace> but I wrote that one out, they don't seem to be interested in backporting themselves
3336[20:44:53] <sponix2ipfw> ratrace: I didn't know Debian 9 had snap support. The things we learn
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3338[20:45:51] <ratrace> sponix2ipfw: the package exists, so I'm assuming it's tested to work with 4.9 kernel
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3340[20:46:28] <teo7> hi, i'm trying to install jitsi-meet on debian, but i'm in an strange error with jitsi-meet-prosody post-install. This is the error: replaced-url
3341[20:46:31] <ratrace> sponix2ipfw: shouldn't be an issue, snaps are supposed to work on kernels as old as that on ubuntu 14.04
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3344[20:47:28] <teo7> It say "The given hostname does not exist in the config" but it didn't ask me an hostname?
3345[20:47:32] <teo7> *.
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3347[20:48:38] <trek00> teo7: where you got this jitsi package?
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3380[21:08:58] <mspe> trek00: replaced-url
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3386[21:11:52] <d7ud90> Hi, i can't seem to access internet on Firefox ... Chromium work fine thought ... Any idea how to fix that please ?
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3388[21:12:03] <fuxxy> alright, BIOS to EFI conversion finished
3389[21:12:50] <sney> d7ud90: what does firefox say when you try?
3390[21:13:01] <d7ud90> nothing keep loading
3391[21:13:03] *** Quits: jjmonrod (b5c2a1f2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3392[21:13:20] <trek00> d7ud90: may be a proxy setting?
3393[21:14:09] <d7ud90> No the option is on "No proxy"
3394[21:14:45] *** Quits: pagetelegram_ (~pageteleg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3398[21:15:15] <sney> is there a proxy configured for chromium? or set with http_proxy (from the installer)?
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3401[21:16:16] <greycat> I don't know about chromium, but google-chrome has to be started with a --proxy-server= command line argument.
3402[21:16:23] <NetTerminalGene> d7ud90, have you tried with new firefox profile?
3403[21:16:35] <d7ud90> No there isn't a proxy ... By the way i just checked tor and it work fine (Clearnet and onion adress)
3404[21:17:17] <NetTerminalGene> d7ud90, also check if it is on DoH
3405[21:17:36] <NetTerminalGene> maybe that's the problem
3406[21:18:26] <NetTerminalGene> DNS over HTTPS feature in firefox
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3410[21:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1568
3411[21:19:07] <d7ud90> It is in about:config ?
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3415[21:19:25] <NetTerminalGene> oh i am on debian channel!
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3418[21:19:35] <NetTerminalGene> d7ud90, do you use ESR firefox?
3419[21:19:47] *** Joins: Eggman1 (~realname@replaced-ip)
3420[21:20:17] <d7ud90> Yes the version 68.6.0 (Just did a update)
3421[21:20:33] *** Joins: pagetelegram_ (~pageteleg@replaced-ip)
3422[21:20:35] <NetTerminalGene> ok. forget what i said then
3423[21:21:09] <NetTerminalGene> i switched to brave browser
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3425[21:21:33] <d7ud90> I forget how to change firefox profile at startup ... There was an option in about:config ?
3426[21:21:46] *** Joins: MYK-78 (~MYK-78@replaced-ip)
3427[21:21:53] <NetTerminalGene> enter about:profiles
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3430[21:23:22] <d7ud90> Thanks it was the problem ... With a new profile it work
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3434[21:25:01] <circ-user-7VFfv> Hello
3435[21:25:16] <circ-user-7VFfv> I am getting a segmentation fault
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3438[21:25:22] <circ-user-7VFfv> how to debug
3439[21:25:27] <circ-user-7VFfv> ?
3440[21:25:34] <sney> !what
3441[21:25:34] <dpkg> What package are you having trouble with? What did you do? What happened? What did you expect to happen?
3442[21:25:52] <circ-user-7VFfv> i custom built yuzu
3443[21:25:55] <teo7> trek00
3444[21:26:12] <teo7> I download it from official jisti repo
3445[21:26:13] <greycat> then you contact the developers/maintainers of yuzu
3446[21:26:14] <circ-user-7VFfv> replaced-url
3447[21:26:25] <greycat> or file a bug report
3448[21:26:32] <circ-user-7VFfv> fact
3449[21:27:05] <circ-user-7VFfv> my question is how can i reveal more info about the segmentation fault
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3451[21:27:19] <greycat> gdb /path/to/yuzu core
3452[21:27:21] <greycat> bt
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3459[21:30:08] <circ-user-7VFfv> thanks
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3461[21:30:14] <circ-user-7VFfv> will test that out
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3465[21:30:24] <trek00> teo7: may be you downloaded a version not suitable for debian or may be it is bugged?
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3467[21:30:30] <d7ud90> Update : It wasn't firefox which was the problem neither the profile it was Umatrix ...
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3469[21:31:05] <circ-user-7VFfv> anyone using broadcom wifi drivers?
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3472[21:32:19] <d7ud90> Is there others people that have problem with the addons Umatrix ?
3473[21:32:21] <sney> teo7: jitsi's packages are wonky and one of them has a debconf prompt that asks you for the hostname of the *jitsi* instance, that's probably what it's referring to, and if you are installing the packages out of order that's why it's erroring out. Just follow their quick install doc and it will work.
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3475[21:33:03] <sney> !anyone
3476[21:33:03] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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3478[21:33:11] <sney> circ-user-7VFfv and d7ud90 ^
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3501[21:41:12] <teo7> sney: ok i'll try. thanks
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3510[21:45:36] <d7ud90> It work ! Thought I don't know why ... (I just disable and activate some setting on Umatrix) Thanks for the help :)
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3550[22:08:26] <f-a> I installed Debian on a laptop (excellent installer, as usual), everything works bar the sound, where do I start diagnosing this?
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3558[22:10:57] <Aebian> can someone share the thoughts on this one? I got a Debian 10 machine, that machine is on IP 10.0.0.9. For some strange reason it resets the SSH connection and then I can't reach it via SSH anymore. Host ID changes and the Certificate auth is no longer possible. Password doesn't work as well. Only way of temp fix is to use my direct console and change the SSHD port via the config to something different.
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3562[22:11:03] <Aebian> Then restart, then set it back to 22 again. It does not happen with any other Debian VM in my home network, just this one and I'm not sure whats wrong
3563[22:12:09] <nt80> there is some IP conflict, check if some other machine is using the same ip
3564[22:12:56] <Aebian> my router says no one else has this IP as it is static assigned to the mac address of that Debian box, but I'll check again
3565[22:13:22] <nt80> check arp with tcpdump
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3567[22:15:45] <trek00> f-a: this should list your sound cards, if detected: aplay -l
3568[22:16:59] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3569[22:17:16] <dvs> !alsa-checklist
3570[22:17:16] <dpkg> 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
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3574[22:18:49] <f-a> aaand master volume was muted, I feel silly. thanks dvs and trek00
3575[22:19:00] *** Joins: prince1 (~prince@replaced-ip)
3576[22:19:12] <dvs> np
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3580[22:23:03] <Aebian> sudo arp 10.0.0.9 lists only the debian vm as entry, no other devices. But good catch, it seems my UPS claims that IP for some reason
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3582[22:23:17] <Aebian> nt80: thanks I will check my ups network card why it is using that IP
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3584[22:23:51] <nt80> Aebian, probably the faster check could be trying to use a different ip first
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3586[22:24:06] <nt80> that's prove if it's an ip conflict or not
3587[22:24:09] <Aebian> well I know that it will work with another ip
3588[22:24:20] <Aebian> I only have issues witj 10.0.0.9
3589[22:24:28] <nt80> and then it is an ip conflict :)
3590[22:24:41] <Aebian> and if I open up a browser I get the login page of my UPS SNMP card instead
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3593[22:26:32] <Aebian> yup it was the UPS
3594[22:26:40] <Aebian> just plugged the network cable
3595[22:26:48] <Aebian> access to the VM works again
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3604[22:31:07] <strk> what's the easiest way to mount a remote directory locally ?
3605[22:31:11] <strk> mount -tnfs ?
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3608[22:31:54] <greycat> depends on what's already set up... if NFS is already set up, use that, otherwise you can consider sshfs or something
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3613[22:34:55] <strk> I've to check if nfs is setup, probably not
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3616[22:35:07] <strk> do you think sshfs would not be too slow for ardour ?
3617[22:35:26] <strk> also, should I make sure to use the SAME absolute path on the two machines or it doesn't matter ?
3618[22:35:36] <strk> ops, sorry, this was really meant for #ardour
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3622[22:37:59] <greycat> you asked for "easiest", not fastest
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3624[22:38:32] <strk> right, yes, I guess sshfs would do
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3631[22:42:17] <fuxxy> I just installed oracle java_14, and it's not listed in update-alternatives?
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3635[22:44:18] <fuxxy> ahh, I guess 8u241 is the latest JRE. I have no idea what I installed
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3642[22:46:30] <LunaLovegood> Is there something to manage processes/daemons that looks like the GNURadio companion? I want something with hierarchical blocks and that can manage numa node/cpu/mem affinities, and that can be used for parametereiszing the sockets and SHM objects connecting my processes.
3643[22:46:31] *** Joins: Whyvn (~user@replaced-ip)
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3646[22:47:57] <LunaLovegood> Or more like it could automatically generate command arguments based on how the "blocks" are connected.
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3653[22:51:21] <blacer> hi every one
3654[22:51:52] <annadane> hi every blacer
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3659[22:54:17] <blacer> how can i set the trackpad gesture for go back and go forward just like the mac os ones
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3669[23:00:53] <annadane> hmm no idea, maybe look at replaced-url
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3679[23:06:39] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3680[23:07:06] *** Quits: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip) (Quit: srgg)
3681[23:07:17] <b1ack0p> i installed debian netinstal with firmware but it couldnt find my wifi cards firmware so installation finished with very minimal system without any DE
3682[23:07:25] <b1ack0p> now i dont have access to internet
3683[23:07:43] <sney> what wifi card is it?
3684[23:07:48] <b1ack0p> is it possible to download my wifi firmware and install it via command line inside an usb stick?
3685[23:07:59] <b1ack0p> old wifi - intel wifi 2100 bg
3686[23:08:09] <greycat> !listkeys 2100
3687[23:08:11] <dpkg> Factoid search of '2100' by key (5): rfc2100 ;; ipw2100 ;; n2100 ;; _default ipw2100 ;; #debian ipw2100.
3688[23:08:18] <b1ack0p> ipw2100 yes
3689[23:08:19] <greycat> !ipw2100
3690[23:08:19] <dpkg> ipw2100 is a Linux kernel driver supporting the Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 802.11b device. Firmware is required, ask me about <non-free sources> and install the firmware-ipw2x00 package to provide. replaced-url
3691[23:08:40] <b1ack0p> i dont have access to internet how can i install it?
3692[23:08:49] <b1ack0p> installation couldnt find in the iso
3693[23:09:01] <b1ack0p> so i finished the installation without any connection with very minimal
3694[23:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1555
3695[23:09:05] <sney> download the deb from replaced-url
3696[23:09:08] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3697[23:09:28] <openbsdtai123> I have created bsdscience.c for science, if you want to adapt for debian and make a deb for sid, let me know... source code is: replaced-url
3698[23:09:44] <b1ack0p> download stable or backports?
3699[23:09:50] *** Quits: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3700[23:10:02] <sney> b1ack0p: stable, to match the stable kernel
3701[23:10:26] <FSF-GNU-Soldier> @b1ack0p use ethernet cable to connect machine to internet - hopefully ethernet works. Add non-free sources as greycat suggested.
3702[23:10:30] *** R0nd is now known as Rond
3703[23:10:59] <sney> openbsdtai123: #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net is a better place to ask about contributions for debian, though you should also probably describe the what/why of that code rather than just pasting something with no context
3704[23:11:06] <b1ack0p> FSF-GNU-Soldier: if i could use ethernet i would do it but i dont have access to modem now
3705[23:11:44] <b1ack0p> ok downloaded the package now how can i install via usb?
3706[23:11:53] <b1ack0p> replaced-url
3707[23:11:57] <b1ack0p> i downloaded this only
3708[23:12:08] <b1ack0p> is it enough?
3709[23:12:19] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3710[23:12:20] <sney> put the usb stick in your computer, mount it, and as root or with sudo dpkg -i filename.deb
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3713[23:12:49] <b1ack0p> let me try
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3720[23:21:05] <b1ack0p> installed firmware but wifi led indicator doesnt turn on
3721[23:21:14] <b1ack0p> how can i connect to wifi?
3722[23:21:28] <b1ack0p> on command line
3723[23:21:40] *** Quits: suffer (spider@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3724[23:21:55] <b1ack0p> or can i install again debian and when it asks about usb media to install firmware can i use the current usb?
3725[23:21:56] *** Joins: suffer (spider@replaced-ip)
3726[23:22:30] <b1ack0p> actually firmware is inside same installer usb key
3727[23:22:44] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3728[23:24:13] *** Quits: trewas (~trewas@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3729[23:25:00] <b1ack0p> does the netinstaller finds the firmware.deb inside the usb while detecting network?
3730[23:26:36] *** Joins: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip)
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3732[23:26:55] <sney> b1ack0p: after installing the firmware package you will need to reboot
3733[23:27:19] *** Joins: Lord_of_Life_ (~Lord@replaced-ip)
3734[23:27:23] <sney> the installer has a firmware directory that contains those debs, but it'll result in the same thing as installing the package afterwards
3735[23:27:44] <b1ack0p> sney will it detect wifi automatically after reboot?
3736[23:27:51] <b1ack0p> rebooting now
3737[23:28:05] <sney> it'll load the driver and let you use wifi, though you'll still need to configure it
3738[23:28:05] <b1ack0p> yea wifi light turned on but i dont know how to connect to wifi
3739[23:28:24] <b1ack0p> it opened on tty cli as there is no any desktop
3740[23:28:25] <sney> replaced-url
3741[23:28:42] <b1ack0p> not again
3742[23:28:44] *** Joins: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip)
3743[23:28:55] <b1ack0p> that s difficult for me
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3745[23:28:55] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
3746[23:29:00] <b1ack0p> last time i struggled a lot
3747[23:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1547
3748[23:29:24] *** Quits: Lovepump (~Lovepump@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3749[23:29:26] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3750[23:29:28] <sney> don't get lost in the whole page. look at only the "command line" section.
3751[23:29:31] <b1ack0p> can i just install network manager or something?
3752[23:29:44] *** Joins: boubou (znc@replaced-ip)
3753[23:29:45] <sney> network manager is complex and annonying on the command line
3754[23:30:04] <sney> this is easier. it has 3 steps.
3755[23:30:11] *** Joins: devfil (~dfiloni@replaced-ip)
3756[23:30:15] <b1ack0p> command not found
3757[23:30:18] <b1ack0p> iwconfig
3758[23:30:19] <sney> which
3759[23:30:42] *** Quits: devfil (~dfiloni@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3760[23:30:43] <b1ack0p> iwconfig not found
3761[23:30:50] <sney> are you root?
3762[23:30:52] <b1ack0p> yes
3763[23:30:54] *** Joins: Plan_IX (~P9@replaced-ip)
3764[23:31:18] <sney> well, that's in wireless-tools. you can install that package manually or just skip it, if you know your SSID for the network all you really need to do is edit /etc/network/interfaces
3765[23:31:34] *** Quits: olegfusion (~olegfusio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3766[23:31:35] *** Quits: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3767[23:34:50] <b1ack0p> sney: where will i write my essid here >> wireless-essid [ESSID]
3768[23:34:58] <b1ack0p> inside [ ] ?
3769[23:35:03] <b1ack0p> or without [ ]
3770[23:35:08] *** Quits: greatgatsby (~greatgats@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3771[23:35:09] <sney> no brackets, just the essid
3772[23:35:13] <b1ack0p> ok
3773[23:35:51] <b1ack0p> what is wireless-mode [MODE] ?
3774[23:36:19] <b1ack0p> and where will i write the password?
3775[23:36:35] <sney> actually, that is a little outdated. I've been looking at it for so long that I didn't even look
3776[23:36:37] *** Joins: dfiloni (~dfiloni@replaced-ip)
3777[23:36:50] <sney> the two fields should really be 'wpa-ssid' and 'wpa-psk'. the syntax is the same, and the second one is the password
3778[23:37:16] <b1ack0p> can i change that way?
3779[23:37:17] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3780[23:38:10] *** Joins: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip)
3781[23:38:37] <b1ack0p> ok i edited that way and saved
3782[23:38:40] <b1ack0p> now what?
3783[23:38:41] <sney> so it should really look something like this replaced-url
3784[23:38:56] <sney> save, close, and 'ifup wlp4s0' or whatever the device name is
3785[23:39:07] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
3786[23:39:08] <b1ack0p> sney: yes it looks like your paste
3787[23:39:46] <b1ack0p> it is doing something
3788[23:40:02] <b1ack0p> DHCPDISCOVER on ....... port 67 interval 20
3789[23:40:03] <b1ack0p> ..
3790[23:40:03] <b1ack0p> ..
3791[23:40:11] <b1ack0p> connecting or not?
3792[23:40:21] <b1ack0p> or i wrote password wrong?
3793[23:40:30] <b1ack0p> ok not
3794[23:40:32] <sney> that's normal behavior, let it go through the dhcp process. sometimes it takes a minute
3795[23:40:40] <b1ack0p> No DHCPOFFERS received
3796[23:40:50] <b1ack0p> No working leases in persistent database - sleeping
3797[23:40:50] *** Quits: Ark74 (~Ark74@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3798[23:41:21] *** Joins: Ark74 (~Ark74@replaced-ip)
3799[23:41:36] *** Quits: greycat (~greg@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
3800[23:41:41] <blacer> how can i set the trackpad gesture for go back and go forward just like the mac os ones
3801[23:42:07] *** Joins: KaiForce (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
3802[23:42:10] *** Quits: mspe (~mspe@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3803[23:42:36] <b1ack0p> sney:
3804[23:42:42] *** Quits: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3805[23:42:49] <sney> b1ack0p: you are so impatient lol
3806[23:42:56] <b1ack0p> sorry :p
3807[23:43:01] <sney> ok, try 'iw wlp4s0 link' and see if you are associated
3808[23:43:29] <b1ack0p> iw command not found
3809[23:43:35] <sney> as root?
3810[23:43:40] <b1ack0p> yes
3811[23:44:09] *** Joins: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip)
3812[23:44:12] <sney> sigh, I wish the installer would install wireless utilities even if it doesn't detect a wlan interface
3813[23:44:12] *** Joins: karstensrage (~karstensr@replaced-ip)
3814[23:44:29] *** Quits: finalalpha (~finalbeta@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3815[23:45:11] <b1ack0p> so it doesnt install any package offline
3816[23:45:13] <sney> you know what, put the firmware deb in the firmware/ directory in the installer usb and run the install again
3817[23:45:13] <b1ack0p> that s bad
3818[23:45:26] *** Joins: mspe (~mspe@replaced-ip)
3819[23:46:08] *** Quits: mspe (~mspe@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3820[23:46:13] <sney> it tries to be "smart" about what hardware is on the machine, and doesn't install anything that is "unnecessary" but wifi is so common now, having those utilities be standard regardless would be better IMO. but they don't let me make those decisions. :)
3821[23:46:15] <b1ack0p> sney: you know what there is already ipw2100 firmware in the usb firmware dir
3822[23:46:21] *** Joins: alencc1986 (~alencc198@replaced-ip)
3823[23:46:23] <b1ack0p> i dont understand why it didnt install
3824[23:46:23] *** Joins: FatalMeltDown (~FatalMelt@replaced-ip)
3825[23:46:41] *** Joins: igi_xmpp (~igi_xmpp@replaced-ip)
3826[23:46:44] *** Joins: mspe (~mspe@replaced-ip)
3827[23:46:53] <sney> hmmmm you're right
3828[23:47:14] <sney> ok, go back to packages.debian.org and get the following packages: iw, wireless-tools, wpa-supplicant
3829[23:47:22] <b1ack0p> it says not found and if i have put usb ..etc
3830[23:47:35] <sney> copy them to your system, install them like you did with the firmware deb
3831[23:47:44] <sney> then you should be able to actually control and troubleshoot this.
3832[23:48:12] *** Quits: Henkla (~hela@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1)
3833[23:48:25] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3834[23:49:07] <b1ack0p> ok
3835[23:49:13] *** Quits: untakenstupidnic (~untakenst@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3836[23:50:32] *** Joins: jsync (~nosaj@replaced-ip)
3837[23:50:36] *** Joins: wondiws (~Jasper@replaced-ip)
3838[23:50:45] *** Joins: z1pher (~tbelanger@replaced-ip)
3839[23:50:57] *** Parts: dfiloni (~dfiloni@replaced-ip) ("Konversation terminated!")
3840[23:51:25] *** Parts: z1pher (~tbelanger@replaced-ip) ()
3841[23:51:30] <jsync> Hey. Is it potential to use an old Netinstaller to install an older release of Debian out of the archives?
3842[23:51:41] <wondiws> some time ago, I wanted to install gitlab on my debian sid. I did not find it in sid, so I added the gitlab repository from gitlab itself and installed that. And now I certainly see gitlab in debian itself. Have you added a gitlab package recently by any chance?
3843[23:51:49] *** Quits: f-matt (~fernando@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3844[23:52:02] *** Parts: alencc1986 (~alencc198@replaced-ip) ()
3845[23:52:06] <wondiws> jsync, I think that is possible, yes
3846[23:52:12] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3847[23:52:20] *** Joins: djdduty (~textual@replaced-ip)
3848[23:52:23] <wondiws> jsync, you can see if the packages are still there on the http and ftp server?
3849[23:52:27] <sney> jsync: how much older? some releases are archived so the files are no longer where the installer is going to look
3850[23:52:37] <sney> ,info gitlab
3851[23:52:38] <judd> No package named 'gitlab' was found in buster/amd64.
3852[23:52:46] <wondiws> sney, how about sid?
3853[23:52:51] <sney> ,info gitlab --release sid
3854[23:52:52] <judd> Package gitlab (contrib/net, optional) in sid/amd64: git powered software platform to collaborate on code (non-omnibus). Version: 12.6.8-3; Size: 85490.0k; Installed: 171617k; Homepage: replaced-url
3855[23:52:59] <wondiws> replaced-url
3856[23:53:08] <wondiws> sney, when was this added?
3857[23:53:14] <jsync> The netinstaller doesn't use the archive site in the list of mirrors. I want to install Wheezy 64 bit.
3858[23:53:24] *** Quits: hwpplayer1 (~hwpplayer@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
3859[23:53:33] <sney> wondiws: according to replaced-url
3860[23:53:55] <wondiws> sney, hmm, time flies
3861[23:55:28] <b1ack0p> sney: it doesnt install packages because they require other packages like libxxxx
3862[23:55:42] <annadane> not such a great idea to install wheezy during the coronavirus now is it?
3863[23:55:46] <annadane> ...sorry
3864[23:55:54] <sney> jsync: you're probably better off installing from CD1 replaced-url
3865[23:56:54] *** Quits: totonika (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3866[23:56:54] <sney> b1ack0p: then download those libs too and install them. there won't be very many.
3867[23:57:15] *** Joins: Aussie_matt (~quassel@replaced-ip)
3868[23:57:59] <jsync> The Netinstaller allows metapackage installs of gnome, etc. I wanted to avoid looking for all those components.
3869[23:58:11] *** Joins: Betal (~Betal@replaced-ip)
3870[23:58:23] <sney> you can get that same menu in a running system by running 'tasksel'
3871[23:58:23] *** Quits: LCRERGO (~lucas@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
3872[23:58:47] <jsync> The netinstaller menu?
3873[23:59:19] <sney> the software selection menu, the one that looks more or less like this replaced-url
3874[23:59:39] *** Quits: CruX| (~jozo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3875[23:59:48] <sney> (actual menu options vary by release) but that's just tasksel, it isn't exclusive to the installer at all
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