People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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44 [00:28:16] <bestthespian> what a general channel on freenode where you can say anything?
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47 [00:29:08] <somiaj> !chat
48 [00:29:09] <dpkg> This is not a chat channel, this is a Debian user support channel. Unless you have a Debian support question, please chat elsewhere, like #debian-offtopic or #moocows on irc.oftc.net, chat on irc.freenode.net, or search for a chat topic of your choice at ##replaced-url
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51 [00:29:15] <somiaj> bestthespian: ##chat
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87 [00:59:08] <bop> trying to upgrade from jessie to stretch. stuck with a bunch of packages saying "Depends: perlapi-5.14.2 but it is not installable"... maybe i can install something else instead?
88 [00:59:25] <abrotman> show us your sources.list
89 [00:59:31] <abrotman> paste.debian.net please
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92 [01:00:52] <abrotman> and did you run dist-upgrade?
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100 [01:03:15] <bop> yes, it was when i ran -dist-upgrade that it came up. pasted.
101 [01:03:43] <abrotman> you have to give us the URL ...
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103 [01:04:31] <bop> right, sorry. replaced-url
104 [01:05:11] <abrotman> and if you run `apt update;apt full-upgrade` ?
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109 [01:06:32] <bop> i get the same stuff, perlapi-15.4.2 but it's "not installable"
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114 [01:08:24] <abrotman> can you give us a sample package that is complaining?
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117 [01:09:57] <abrotman> or show us the complete output of "apt update"?
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119 [01:12:17] <bop> it's mostly perl stuff, eg. libapt-pkg-perl. i don't know if i need perl necessarily, but i want to be cautious.
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122 [01:12:59] <abrotman> you do
123 [01:13:34] <bop> here is apt update: replaced-url
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125 [01:13:44] <bop> yeah i thought i might...
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132 [01:17:24] <abrotman> i'd probably go into whatever files you have in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and comment out those sources
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134 [01:17:31] <somiaj> !don't break debian
135 [01:17:32] <dpkg> methinks dont break debian is replaced-url
136 [01:17:49] <somiaj> bop: ^^ might want to read that over too (notice you have various ppa (ubuntu) and lots of third party packages.
137 [01:17:57] <somiaj> well third party sources
138 [01:18:06] <oerheks> apt-cache policy perlapi-15.4.2
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142 [01:19:14] <iiee> dudes for realz tho
143 [01:19:16] <iiee> imma do /d/a/t/
144 [01:19:18] <iiee> hahah
145 [01:19:21] <iiee> imma lit af rite no
146 [01:19:23] <iiee> debian sucks
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149 [01:19:32] <iiee> debian sucks windows rocks
150 [01:19:33] <dvs> heh
151 [01:19:55] <iiee> Version for dvs is HexChat 2.14.2 / Linux 4.19.0-8-amd64
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153 [01:20:15] <iiee> debian doesn't even run a game lol
154 [01:20:22] <joepublic> !ops iiee babblespam
155 [01:20:23] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall, bremner: joepublic complains about a problem (see above)
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161 [01:21:30] <dvs> babblespam?
162 [01:21:34] * dvs hides
163 [01:21:48] <joepublic> kind of a hybrid between babbling and spam.
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165 [01:22:50] <KNERD> Funny though as I have Steam installed on Debian
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170 [01:25:40] <deego> what's the point of using debian if you will go install malware and/or closed source untrusted stuff on it anyway?
171 [01:27:19] <joepublic> debian has many attractive features, actually, which, while excellent, unfortunately can serve to mask the primary benefit, that of a free software basis.
172 [01:27:31] <KNERD> because I have control over the OS/. WHat is the poiint of using an OS which woudl limit you?
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174 [01:28:41] <deego> KNERD: fair point. i'm used to using windoze for games, because something is always broken in the linux ports. maybe things have changed now.
175 [01:28:43] <annadane> i bought my computer before i knew nvidia = bad
176 [01:28:48] <annadane> so i'll suffer through it
177 [01:29:07] <annadane> oh that was re: steam
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194 [01:41:34] <KNERD> zyley: Half of my games in Steam are available on Linux. And nearly all of they work great
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197 [01:44:49] <KNERD> Problem with Linux though it tryng to support multiple diffeent versions as many closed source software has certain rewuirments (usualy outdted), and the same requirement versions may not be on a different version. Gets to be a bit cumbersome having to do multiple packages for all the distros
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208 [02:01:13] <nevyn> steam manages it by mostly largly replicating lib
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218 [02:07:40] <annadane> i need to revisit gog on linux again
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221 [02:08:30] <annadane> although playing video games is generally a sign you're bored and have too much time
222 [02:08:37] <annadane> neither of which are very good
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228 [02:10:27] <JackFrost> Depends, it could be something you rather enjoy and a way to destress.
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232 [02:26:16] <nevyn> yea or an escape from reality that's too painful/stressfull to dealwith
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249 [02:43:51] <tomreyn> but then chatting on this on irc could be, too
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257 [02:53:20] <KNERD> So, I want to upfate to a newer version of libmutter. I tried to uninstall it then I was going to instal the source. However, apt wants to remove all related items also which need mutter, but I do not want to do that. Is there a way to remove it without removeing depends packages? I tried the apt-mark hold, but it still fails. WHat about installing source over package?
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259 [02:54:59] <themill> The best approach is to build a package with the updated source. Plan B is to use equivs to fake the dependency but that can go wrong in so many ways.
260 [02:55:38] <themill> Remember that apt has one job and that is to ensure that all the dependencies are satisfied. There is no way around that.
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265 [02:59:17] * themill would be very surprised if it were possible to do actually worked
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267 [02:59:52] <KNERD> themill: thanks. I got zero experience building packahes, so I guess I can learn on this. Problem is I am not even sure the difference between apt_name and apt_name-dev
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270 [03:01:05] <themill> they are different packages for different purposes -- the difference would normally be explained in the package description
271 [03:02:02] <KNERD> well, what I meant was, how they dresive the differences when the source package building has no such differences
272 [03:02:11] <KNERD> you just make and install
273 [03:02:21] <KNERD> I can I can read up on that
274 [03:03:20] <themill> From what I can see, mutter won't build on buster to begin with; even if you could get it to build, nothing will be able to use the new version
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277 [03:03:55] <KNERD> then how they geting all these broken packages to build for the repos?
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280 [03:05:05] <themill> they're not broken at all
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282 [03:05:32] <themill> packages in buster work in buster and build in buster. packages in unstable work in unstable and build in unstable
283 [03:05:34] <KNERD> if they cannot be built on Debian, then something I would say is broken
284 [03:05:41] <themill> that's not what I said
285 [03:06:44] <KNERD> I am trying to compile Budgie Deskop, but I am getting a syntax error. Others are reporting if a newer version of mutter is used, then it would compile
286 [03:07:38] <themill> budgie is already in Debian btw
287 [03:07:40] <KNERD> But I am saying something is broken if you are saying newer version of Mutter may not compile
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289 [03:07:51] <KNERD> yes, I know, but I want to built it myself
290 [03:08:12] <themill> there is nothing surprising about a newer version of a package not being able to be compiled on an old release. that is entirely expected
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292 [03:08:47] <themill> an old version of a package might also not be compilable on a newer release; that's also entirely expected
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294 [03:09:04] <KNERD> yes, this is minor version though
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303 [03:20:31] <KNERD> But what I men by broken is, how is it that Budgie desktop was succesfully compiled on their end, but when I try, I am getting sytx error in the code? I even tried applying the patches from the Debian sources, but ti seems all but one had been applied in the Github original source, and I still get Syntax error
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350 [04:02:24] <DracoSentien> why does Debian have a reputation for being hard to install and configure ? I find it easier to install and configure than slackware, void linux, crux linux and gentoo etc...
351 [04:03:33] <dvs> DracoSentien, well if you're comparing Debian to those then I'd say yes.
352 [04:03:49] <cstls> it used to be harder to install
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354 [04:04:00] <cstls> but slack is fairly straightforward and simple, too, imo
355 [04:04:00] * dvs drags out dselect
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357 [04:04:27] <DracoSentien> cstls: I first installed Debian in 1999 with Debian slink and I thought it was not too hard to install back then after having 2 years linux experience
358 [04:04:41] <DracoSentien> cstls: I remember I had to compile a kernel just to get sound to work though !
359 [04:05:10] <dvs> DracoSentien, you're hardware was too new then!
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361 [04:06:35] <cstls> yeah, that's around the time i first tried as well. i got on slack in 98
362 [04:06:37] <DracoSentien> cstls: yeah, well the only reason why I installed Debian instead of Slackware, on my laptop, is because I don't run bet software (slackware-current) and last release was in 2016
363 [04:06:59] <DracoSentien> I am not going to lie if slackware had a release at the sametime as Buster I would be using slackware right now
364 [04:07:40] <cstls> yep, i remember the arduous days trying to get xfree86 working with my monitors hsync and vsync
365 [04:07:45] <DracoSentien> s/bet/beta/g
366 [04:08:16] <DracoSentien> cstls: yeah, you could possibly damage your monitor back in those days with a wrong configuration but it never happened to me
367 [04:09:12] <cstls> but yeah, i'd go back to slack as well if things were a bit fresher, but for now, i stick to buster. switched to debian around 2005
368 [04:09:43] <cstls> never messed with gentoo at all, or void or arch for that matter
369 [04:10:28] <DracoSentien> cstls: I messed with arch but the BSDs gave me a taste for stability and arch is bleeding edge rolling release and it can hose your system with an update which you have to fix yourself
370 [04:10:32] <cstls> the biggest pain i remember was configuing ppp with my modem. win modems were notoriously difficult to get working, so i bought a true hardware external modem -- think it was a hayes, even?
371 [04:10:54] <DracoSentien> cstls: I eventually just bought an external dipswitch modem back then
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374 [04:12:43] <DracoSentien> cstls: I downloaded Debian Slink over a modem for several days to a windows partition. I booted the debian installation medium setup dual boot and loaded a vfat kernel module and mounted the windows partition and installed Debian that way back in 1999. The Debian installer has always been very comprehensive
375 [04:13:06] <DracoSentien> I was not even sure I could do it beforehand but I figured it would work
376 [04:13:53] <DracoSentien> I have everything setup in Debian on my laptop now I just have to install codecs now the last thing
377 [04:14:02] <cstls> ah nice.
378 [04:14:38] <cstls> these days, even stable works great on a lot of systems. i'm on an old thinkpad and it just took a tiny bit of searching to find my wireless card firmware
379 [04:15:05] <cstls> everything else worked out of the box
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381 [04:16:19] <DracoSentien> cstls: yeah, I'm on Dell e7270 I used the unnoficial install images but even that did not have my non-free wifi firmware
382 [04:16:51] <DracoSentien> so I stuck an ethernet cord into my laptop installed from there edited sources.list for non-free then installed my firmware blobs etc...
383 [04:17:34] <DracoSentien> This dell only has 4GB of ram but it is easily upgradeable to 16 GB so I going to upgrade
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385 [04:19:02] <DracoSentien> cstls: if I had a thinkpad I would be too tempted to install OpenBSD. I got this Dell and OpenBSD would not install on it because it would not recongize my SSD drive
386 [04:20:07] <cstls> i've tried to jump on openbsd before, but i'm just too acustom to debian and too lazy to really try and switch. i installed openbsd on an old macbook and it worked great aside from the wireless
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389 [04:20:57] <cstls> but i can see it's stregths. very lean and as everyone touts, the man docs are great
390 [04:21:05] <KNERD> if you used a mac in the past 20 years, you should be used to BSD ha-ha
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392 [04:21:39] <DracoSentien> cstls: yeah, I dunno I like OpenBSD because it is so clean, flexible , coherent , tight and the documentation is great. I need linux thought because it is harder to make money with OpenBSD skills
393 [04:21:50] <DracoSentien> s/thought/though/g
394 [04:22:27] <DracoSentien> I am more likely to make money on github through donations hacking on some Linux software
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396 [04:23:17] <cstls> all my work is in linux variants.
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398 [04:23:45] <DracoSentien> or even parlay Linux sys admin skills into a job because OpenBSD is niche and has no official vendor support like redhat
399 [04:23:47] <cstls> but my last job the guy i worked for was a huge bsd fan. he eventually switched to ubuntu, though, just simply because of config issues.
400 [04:24:06] <DracoSentien> I can't figure out how to make money with OpenBSD so I need to stay away from it
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402 [04:24:54] <DracoSentien> cstls: interesting
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404 [04:25:17] <soulreaver> /msg NickServ REGISTER
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407 [04:25:30] * dvs steals the nonpassword
408 [04:26:05] <cstls> lol
409 [04:26:31] <DracoSentien> cstls: that is why I was looking into crux linux and stuff because it is BSD based but it is pain in the ass to install. I can do it as I've installed things like arch linux and slackware but I see no point in compiling a kernel just to install a linux system
410 [04:26:58] <DracoSentien> crux linux and gentoo too , I think, make you compile a kernel
411 [04:27:03] <DracoSentien> just to install the system
412 [04:27:07] <cstls> the openbsd installer is easy
413 [04:27:35] <cstls> yeah, that's what i thought i'd heard re gentoo
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415 [04:28:12] <DracoSentien> cstls: I find OpenBSD extremely easy to install, configure and use but people think text installers are hard for some weird reason
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417 [04:28:59] <cstls> it scares people off. same reason people think terminal emulators are difficult.
418 [04:29:37] <DracoSentien> cstls: hence sudo
419 [04:29:40] <DracoSentien> lol
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422 [04:30:39] <DracoSentien> cstls: terminal emulators are not difficult for me because I started using Linux in the 1990s when Linux was still exclusively for Geeks and you had to be familiar with the shell
423 [04:30:51] <DracoSentien> way back before ubuntu
424 [04:32:05] <cstls> yeah, most of the folk i remember chatting with in slackware were rarely even using x
425 [04:32:32] <DracoSentien> cstls: RMS still rarely uses X I hear
426 [04:32:42] <DracoSentien> He does use it sometimes , though
427 [04:32:48] <cstls> tldp was kind of my resource for help then
428 [04:33:01] <cstls> bought a few books from walnut creek that were basically facsimilies of that site
429 [04:33:46] <DracoSentien> yeah I remember the linux documentation project and walnut creek but I nefver bought anything from walnut creek
430 [04:34:04] <cstls> that's how i got my first cd of slack
431 [04:34:21] <DracoSentien> I was in a library in 1997 and there was a book with a Redhat 5.0 Hurricane CD-ROM in it that was my first linux distro
432 [04:34:33] <DracoSentien> wasn't until 1999 I got into Debian and Slack
433 [04:35:22] <cstls> making boot disks and rebooting to windows to look up what went wrong, haha
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435 [04:35:34] <DracoSentien> lol
436 [04:35:46] <DracoSentien> yeah, I used to dual boot
437 [04:35:58] <DracoSentien> that was before virtual machines were a thing
438 [04:36:07] <KNERD> Gosh what noobs, I first installed with 3.5 inch disks in summer of '92 on an i386 machine :-P
439 [04:36:09] <DracoSentien> or a big thing
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441 [04:36:30] <DracoSentien> KNERD: lol
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443 [04:36:59] <DracoSentien> I consider anyone after the 1990s to be a n00b because Linux went from being a system for only Geeks to being for everyone
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445 [04:37:19] <cstls> 386 sx?
446 [04:38:02] <KNERD> yes, 386 sx with added math co prosessor
447 [04:38:15] <KNERD> 387
448 [04:38:16] <cstls> ooh fancy
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451 [04:38:40] <KNERD> yeah, it cost more than the CPU
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453 [04:38:43] <DracoSentien> I had a 486 or 386 I can't remember but it was ridiculously expensive back then so my parents probably would have killed me for installing linux on it
454 [04:38:52] <DracoSentien> I was just a kid
455 [04:39:38] <cstls> still insane what id software was able to do on a freaking 386
456 [04:40:19] <cstls> got myself the 486/dx2 when win95 came out
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458 [04:40:49] <oiaohm> DracoSentien: I still remember fruit picking to collect the money for my first computer so what I did with it was not under my parents control.
459 [04:41:39] <DracoSentien> oiaohm: I see
460 [04:41:42] <cstls> that's hardcore. i picked no fruit.
461 [04:42:01] <DracoSentien> when computers first came out they were crazy expensive
462 [04:42:11] <DracoSentien> the PC
463 [04:42:13] <DracoSentien> I mean
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465 [04:43:00] <oiaohm> I know lot of people could not believe I wasted a summer with fruit picking and thinning to collect enough money to buy a computer and with that amount of money I could have bought 2 second hand cars.
466 [04:43:16] <oiaohm> 2 decent second hand cars.
467 [04:43:40] <cstls> actually, i picked blueberries to buy a skateboard in 97.
468 [04:43:50] <cstls> not nearly as much as a car or a pc
469 [04:44:00] <DracoSentien> cstls: I use skateboard and snowboard
470 [04:44:27] <cstls> used to be a chan on undernet #skaters and most were linux nerds.
471 [04:44:57] <cstls> for that matter, most people in a lot of the channels back then were into unix varients. kind of what got my interested.
472 [04:45:08] <oiaohm> Todo what I did it was picking a 1ton and a half of fruit per day for the complete summer break here in Australia. No weekends off.
473 [04:45:35] <oiaohm> You have to be stubborn to get something to work that hard.
474 [04:45:44] <cstls> that's impressive, how old were you?
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476 [04:45:54] <DracoSentien> cstls: I used be on dalnet on #hackers and #linux and #2600 but now IRC is for black hat hackers, terrorists, and government agents
477 [04:46:06] <DracoSentien> cstls: except for freenode which is still normal
478 [04:46:10] <cstls> dalnet! i remember switching to dal during some issues on undernet.
479 [04:46:32] <DracoSentien> dalnet used to be popular
480 [04:46:35] <oiaohm> cstls: that was when I was 15 years old. Due to my English issues I was needing a computer with software spell check to help out with doing my year 10,11 and 12 assissment work.
481 [04:46:37] <cstls> on undernet #7thsphere was where i sat mostly.
482 [04:47:38] <oiaohm> cstls: mind you I did go back and fruit pick and buy my first car as well.
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497 [05:01:59] <KNERD> I still have a Linux CD tdistro hat came with a bo ok that has Doom on it
498 [05:02:47] <KNERD> The Linxu was free , but they wanted to sell you the DE for $99
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589 [06:38:10] <bn_x> hi i have a bug can anybody help?
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595 [06:39:52] <jm_> !ask
596 [06:39:52] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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598 [06:40:18] <diogenes_> bn_x, is it you or the system who has a bug?
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615 [06:56:10] <bn_x> i'm running debian 10 buster. i have battery indicator saying "estimating" after updates. does anybody idea of that?
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618 [06:58:48] <jm_> does this command show anything useful? upower -e | grep 'BAT'
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640 [07:10:29] <bn_x> it says /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT0
641 [07:11:34] <jm_> then you can run «upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT0» to get the details
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649 [07:14:55] <Randolf> How can I get the older EasyRSA package? The currently one, EasyRSA3, is broken. Thanks.
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651 [07:15:53] <jm_> Randolf: and how is it broken?
652 [07:16:46] <Randolf> jm_: Well, I've been trying to use various instructions to get OpenVPN configured, and so far none of the instructions for EasyRSA3 actually works. And quite a few of them expect old EasyRSA commands (as if there's a mixture of the two versions).
653 [07:17:26] <jm_> Randolf: well that could simply mean those instructions need updating rather than easy-rsa being totally broken, no?
654 [07:17:35] <Randolf> I've been fighting with this since last week, and I'm at the point where I just feel like I want to give up on EasyRSA3 and use manual commands to configure OpenVPN instead, but I know that's not going to be as easy as getting the older EasyRSA installed.
655 [07:17:50] <Randolf> jm_: That's fair.
656 [07:18:25] <jm_> Randolf: are these commands not working either? replaced-url
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658 [07:18:44] <Randolf> The thing is, EasyRSA is pretty important for configuring OpenVPN. When I use apt to search for EasyRSA, the only option available is EasyRSA3 which doesn't do the job.
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660 [07:19:23] <Randolf> jm_: That's one of the first ones I tried.
661 [07:19:34] <Randolf> Search for this text: export KEY_COUNTRY="US"
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663 [07:20:54] <Randolf> The "vars" file created doesn't have that line in it. Instead, it has this line: set_var EASYRSA_REQ_COUNTRY "US"
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666 [07:21:48] <Randolf> But I tried going with this instead. Unfortunately, the next commands fail: ". ./vars" reports that this method is no longer used, and ./clean-all doesn't even exist.
667 [07:22:19] <Randolf> So, I tried various other instructions I could find. (OpenVPN's web site has instructions for an older EasyRSA version, not EasyRSA3.)
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669 [07:23:02] <jm_> yeah looks like they completely removed /usr/share/doc/openvpn/examples/easy-rsa in newer openvpn version, well you could try using the version from debian 9 but I somehow doubt it will work - that must have been removed for a reason
670 [07:24:08] <Randolf> Where is the best place to get that older version?
671 [07:24:51] <Randolf> Ideally, I'd like to get it with apt.
672 [07:25:14] <jm_> note that I highly discourage you to go that route - replaced-url
673 [07:25:17] <jm_> !snapshot
674 [07:25:17] <dpkg> replaced-url
675 [07:25:21] <Randolf> I'm still fairly new to apt though, as I'm more familiar with NetBSD's packaging system (which I find is not as robust as apt).
676 [07:25:33] <Randolf> Thanks!
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680 [07:30:33] <Randolf> That first link only has EasyRSA version 3. I'll take a look at the snapshot link. replaced-url
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690 [07:34:41] <Randolf> Looks like EasyRSA 2.2.2.2 is the newest in the pre-version3 series. replaced-url
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694 [07:36:14] <jm_> yes, that's the version from debian 9 (oldstable)
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696 [07:37:03] <Randolf> I'm just looking into how to install .deb files with apt. It seems I need to use "dpkg -i" instead.
697 [07:38:19] <Randolf> Is there a way to check if it has any dependencies? I know OpenSSL is one, but I've already got that on my system. Or will dpkg just refuse to install and show me an error?
698 [07:39:38] <jm_> dpkg -i file.deb
699 [07:39:38] * dpkg removes a kidney from jm_ and replaces it with file.deb
700 [07:39:51] <jm_> dpkg -I file.deb
701 [07:39:51] * dpkg installs file.deb into jm_'s head with a bone saw and a few screws
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703 [07:39:59] * Randolf laughs
704 [07:40:02] <jm_> first one to install, second one to get details
705 [07:40:13] <Randolf> Oh, cool.
706 [07:41:10] <annadane> dpkg, botsnack
707 [07:41:11] <dpkg> annadane: thanks
708 [07:41:22] <Randolf> Looks like OpenSSL is the only dependency. Good.
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728 [08:01:22] <CQ2> can I get apt to show me the dependencies for a not installed package?
729 [08:01:46] <jm_> yes
730 [08:02:56] <CQ2> apt-cache depends getmail ... found it
731 [08:04:09] <jelly> apt-cache show packagename is nice
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734 [08:04:31] <jm_> apt-cache show pkg ; there are other tools to only show desired fields, i.e. aptitude with its format strings, or dctrl-tools family of tools or dpkg-awk and so on
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738 [08:05:20] <CQ2> jm_ this is enough ... Depends: python:any (<< 2.8), python:any (>= 2.7~) for getmail, does this mean that python3 is unsupported?
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743 [08:07:44] <Randolf> jm_: Thanks for your help. EasyRSA 2.2.2.2 is working great.
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745 [08:09:40] <jm_> CQ: you mean if getmail would work with python3?
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747 [08:10:39] <CQ> jm_ yes
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749 [08:10:58] <jm_> CQ: apparently, see replaced-url
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751 [08:14:22] <CQ> replaced-url
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754 [08:16:13] <jm_> such bug already exists
755 [08:16:27] <jm_> see #936604
756 [08:16:28] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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761 [08:20:38] <CQ> replaced-url
762 [08:20:44] <CQ> ... is that a bug ? ; )
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764 [08:20:51] <CQ> I just saw it on reportbug
765 [08:21:23] <themill> no
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767 [08:21:48] <themill> #936604 is reported against the source package, that URL is looking at the binary package
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769 [08:22:26] <CQ> ah. now would an end-user know that?
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771 [08:22:42] <jm_> cq: replaced-url
772 [08:22:57] <themill> you should basically only look at the source package bugs unless you have a specific reason to filter down to binary packages
773 [08:22:59] <jm_> has useful links
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775 [08:24:57] <themill> FWIW it seems that the getmail developers would rather continue to support Python 2.5 than support Python 3 and that will be the end of the tool.
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784 [08:33:36] <albert> hi
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788 [08:34:22] <CQ> themill understood, but someone just coming from packages.debian.org/getmail will not know that
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792 [08:36:51] <themill> CQ: there is discussion about whether changing the default view would be a good idea. On the bug listing, it did include "you might like to refer to the source package src:getmail's bug page" right at the top.
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794 [08:37:29] <themill> On in terms of "how would you know to look at the source package bug page", that sentence is there for that exact reason
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796 [08:38:09] <Randolf> It appears that the getmail package supports version 2.7 of Python. Or am I not reading this correctly? Depends: python:any (<< 2.8), python:any (>= 2.7~)
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801 [08:39:21] <jm_> Randolf: yes, in debian - in reality it would also work with python 2.5 as themill said earlier
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803 [08:41:11] <ghormoon> hi, is there some tool that would be able to trace specific sector if it was in file or free space? (ntfs)
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811 [08:43:47] <jm_> ghormoon: for ext4 debugs would help with that question
812 [08:43:52] <jm_> well ext#
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814 [08:45:19] <ghormoon> i just googled up ntfscluster, will try when the dd finishes (copying spining disk to ssd, had to seek past dead sector)
815 [08:45:41] <ghormoon> most propably i can wing it, but would be nice to know if it corrupted anything interesting
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817 [08:46:34] <jm_> maybe there's a ntfs channel somewhere that could help
818 [08:47:05] <Randolf> ghormoon: Failing that, there is a Windows-based tool I use to copy disks with bad sectors -- it has a method of reporting which file occupies a bad sector (a second step that requires cross-referencing between the disk image it creates and the disk with the bad sector): replaced-url
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820 [08:47:57] <ghormoon> thanks, will see what i'll get. at worst, it's just a gaming pc, so it can be reinstalled at worst
821 [08:48:24] <ghormoon> but there's still about 50% chance it's just a free space :D
822 [08:48:48] <Randolf> ghormoon: Good luck (the instructions for the cross-referencing are in the "bad sectors" report text file it generates -- if no bad sector report is generated, then the bad sector didn't hit any of the allocated sectors).
823 [08:49:53] * Randolf won't say any more on this subject as it's off-topic here -- the #windows channel admins keep kicking him off, so he doesn't go there anymore.
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827 [08:52:10] <ghormoon> yah, there are reason's i'd rather boot linux flashdisk even on the windows boxes. much better support on irc if something goes bad :D
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830 [08:53:08] <ghormoon> this is specific case where the win tools might be more common, but still ,ni linux there's often a bunch and less hidden magic in them and they tell what they do
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832 [08:55:01] <Randolf> ghormoon: I've got a back-burner project that occasionally gets my attention -- getting Xen on Debian to share KVM (Keyboard, Video, Mouse), etc., with a virtualized Windows. Once this is working, I can have Debian boot and contain Windows for easier remote support via SPICE or VNC.
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834 [08:55:22] <Randolf> Video isn't so straight-forward to pass through though.
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838 [08:57:46] <ghormoon> i was playing around with gpu passthrough, but at that point i just passed in the keyboard/mouse too for the time the VM was up
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845 [09:01:54] <Randolf> Do you find that Windows installs and runs faster under virtualization? I find that this normally is the case.
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848 [09:02:51] <ghormoon> installs definitely yes. reboots take like 1-2seconds, literally. love zfs caches :D
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850 [09:03:22] <Randolf> Oh, you're doing it with zfs? I'm using ext4.
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852 [09:03:29] <Randolf> I haven't explored zfs yet.
853 [09:03:34] <ghormoon> but i had issues in games with occasional lags. tuned it down a bit with disabling sync writes on the dataset, but maybe it;s not the right place for gaming vm
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856 [09:04:02] <Randolf> Are you using the qcow2 format?
857 [09:04:33] <ghormoon> but in the end, i bought a TV to the other room and took out the gpu and built another pc from scraps. not i got it a ssd, as the spinning disk was pain
858 [09:04:41] <ghormoon> zvol
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860 [09:04:54] <ghormoon> then present it as raw to qemu
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862 [09:04:57] <Randolf> Yeah, SSD is great for serious gaming.
863 [09:05:11] <ghormoon> nah, win win 10, you need it too boot under 10 minutes :D
864 [09:05:15] <ghormoon> *with
865 [09:05:29] * Randolf laughs
866 [09:05:51] <ghormoon> seriously, i upgraded it from 7 to 10 and it slowed about 10 times
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875 [09:08:14] <albert> please, i need to kill a song but i can't
876 [09:08:30] <Randolf> Well, the newer versions of Windows always use a lot more resources. For my business clients, I always recommend 16 GBs of RAM for Windows 10 so that the swap file activity doesn't go mad. You might also need to update the Xen drivers in Windows as that won't happen automatically.
877 [09:08:34] <albert> the song is repeating all the time
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879 [09:08:43] <ghormoon> albert: shred song.mp3
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883 [09:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1513
884 [09:09:07] <Randolf> If you're using SPICE with vdagent and QXL under Windows 10, then that's likely what's slowing things down -- change QXL to Standard VGA and that should resolve the problem.
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886 [09:09:41] <ghormoon> nope, this was real machine. on the VM, i was passing ral GPU in, no virtual GPU at all
887 [09:09:44] <ghormoon> *real
888 [09:10:02] <albert> ghormoon: i was playing this song using cantanta, it is a song of jamendo it is online is not on my computer. I kill cantanta and this still playing. I had this song in a repeated mode. I restart the system and it still playing
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891 [09:11:10] <Randolf> Oh.
892 [09:11:30] <autopsy> Oh my god I've got a cat licking my hands all the time, I kill the cat and feed it to the birds and it stilll lick my hands help.
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894 [09:11:40] <ghormoon> i'd try to look for the source in pactl list, what it might be
895 [09:11:55] <Randolf> autopsy: You probably just need to decompress it with zcat.
896 [09:12:13] <autopsy> zcat yeah I'l do that.
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902 [09:13:59] <annadane> please don't kill kitties
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904 [09:15:30] * Randolf wonders how many people just typed "man zcat" in the past two minutes. ;)
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910 [09:16:28] <Randolf> annadane: Given that cats have 9 lives, a "kill -9" would likely be required.
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913 [09:17:09] <ghormoon> or maybe for x in `seq 1 9`; do kill $cat; done? :)
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917 [09:18:01] <Randolf> Now that's the cat's meow!
918 [09:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1520
919 [09:20:14] <autopsy> ooh ooh free the cat man du!
920 [09:20:17] <ghormoon> maybe autopsy did only kill it? so now he needs to kill -8 to finish it? :D
921 [09:20:32] <autopsy> What is signal 8?
922 [09:20:40] <ghormoon> floating point exception
923 [09:20:56] <autopsy> Oh yeah she sure is a ghost maybe 8 will work.
924 [09:20:58] <ghormoon> (had to look it up too) :D
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926 [09:21:16] * Randolf is enjoying these puns.
927 [09:21:31] <annadane> UNIX feels a lot like the history of mathmatics
928 [09:21:40] <annadane> "so then we needed this, so we invented that"
929 [09:21:43] <ghormoon> ofc it's FPE, because you're killing only 0.88888888 cat now
930 [09:21:48] <autopsy> At first I read that he was enjoying these buns.. wow.
931 [09:22:15] <annadane> you can probably use rsync to run your toaster at this point
932 [09:22:22] <Randolf> annadane: Sometimes it also feels like sexual harassment -- finger, ping (Packet INternet Groper), etc.
933 [09:22:31] <ghormoon> annadane: it kinda sort of is how it started ... some geeks at universities
934 [09:22:33] <Randolf> ...and, OpenPAM!
935 [09:23:13] <autopsy> In between the legs I sam Open Sesame
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937 [09:23:37] <Randolf> Sometimes we just say fsck it!
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939 [09:23:50] <ghormoon> i though it was sudo
940 [09:24:08] <autopsy> Why should I not us sdo su - root?
941 [09:24:10] <ghormoon> nevermind, can't read this late
942 [09:24:29] <ghormoon> sort of read "have to" somewhere in his sentence
943 [09:25:21] <Randolf> I've heard that "strip" can do a "pipe" dance.
944 [09:25:23] <autopsy> Is Debian distribution still controlled by the Nazis?
945 [09:25:59] <autopsy> Youguysget back in yor trenches.
946 [09:26:37] <Randolf> touch ... unzip ... gawk!
947 [09:28:11] <ghormoon> damn spinning disks. 1.5hours and it's in half (~160gb). gotta fall asleep before it finishes
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954 [09:36:25] <Randolf> Type this bash command for a hilarious error message: %blow
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984 [09:50:39] <autopsy> No such job
985 [09:53:01] <Randolf> autopsy: I got a bit more detail: bash: fg: %blow: no such job
986 [09:53:27] <ratrace> What are you, 12?
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988 [09:54:00] <dff> how do i install php 7.1 on buster?
989 [09:54:12] <Randolf> ratrace: You must have missed the puns over the past few minutes.
990 [09:54:20] <dff> replaced-url
991 [09:54:25] <dff> or is there some other way
992 [09:54:54] <GNU\colossus> dff, 3rd party repos are neither supported in nor recommended by this channel, sorry
993 [09:54:56] <jm_> dff: why 7.1? buster has 7.3
994 [09:55:09] <ratrace> dff: yes, doing manually what sury does.
995 [09:55:19] <ratrace> Randolf: that's why I ask.
996 [09:55:29] <dff> jm_: because i broke an application by going from 7.0 to 7.3
997 [09:55:36] <dff> i need to use 7.1 to update it
998 [09:56:28] <jm_> dff: then that repository is your only sensible option
999 [09:56:55] <Randolf> jm_: Could this be helpful to dff? replaced-url
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1003 [09:58:53] <ratrace> no it couldn't. don't install deb files that aren't built for your release.
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1006 [09:59:26] <jm_> Randolf: no, it's too complex
1007 [09:59:41] <Randolf> Ah, too many dependencies and whatnot.
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1072 [10:47:20] <crivrc> #winehackers
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1086 [10:59:53] <RadoS> Moin. On my old notebook dell d600 I have a touchpad with 2 buttons below and 2 above it. On my d620 & d820 I have the same touchpad constellation. However, with d600 both button pairs work for emulating middle-mouse, with d620/d820 only the lower buttons emulate, the upper fail.
1087 [11:00:39] <RadoS> Where to look for why it behaves differently and how to unify it so middle-mouse is emulated for both pairs on all 3 systems?
1088 [11:01:47] <RadoS> That's on/in X.
1089 [11:02:06] <RadoS> (can't remember, but maybe with gpm, too)
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1205 [12:11:35] <bn_x> it says native-path: BAT0
1206 [12:11:35] <bn_x> vendor: TKBSS
1207 [12:11:35] <bn_x> model: NS2P3SZMC4WR
1208 [12:11:35] <bn_x> power supply: yes
1209 [12:11:35] <bn_x> updated: Tue 03 Mar 2020 02:10:39 PM +03 (40 seconds ago)
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1213 [12:15:03] <Ede|Popede> Golden Rules of IRC: 1) don't read the topic so you won't get kicked. 2) don't read the message after the kick.
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1228 [12:24:05] <bibble> What's the best and easiest way to change the systems DNS nameservers currently ?
1229 [12:24:25] <bibble> Is there a systemctl command ?
1230 [12:25:12] <jm_> I just edit /etc/resolv.conf
1231 [12:26:12] <bibble> Use to be OK 😊 But now /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten on laptop reboot.
1232 [12:27:00] <jm_> DHCP? dhclient has a setting for that
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1234 [12:27:32] <bibble> Think so. Just using a default Linux Mint desktop environment. So
1235 [12:27:47] <jm_> we can only help you with pure debian here, so:
1236 [12:27:49] <jm_> !mint
1237 [12:27:49] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
1238 [12:28:49] <bibble> Right. This is the Debian version. Also, it would be the same problem/answer on Debian with XFCE
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1240 [12:29:44] <bibble> All stackoverflow answers seem to be old, like yours, or complicated. It's strange.
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1242 [12:30:08] <jm_> see replaced-url
1243 [12:30:41] <jm_> and it's got very little to do with age
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1246 [12:32:07] <bibble> Thank you jm_ . Though that's complicated for normal users. How would they change them ? If you have to do that "chattr -i /etc/resolv.conf" too, that's very hacky.
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1248 [12:33:02] <jm_> bibble: there's a reason why it's the last method listed - the first two are simple enough, no?
1249 [12:34:16] <bibble> True. Will try the 2nd one. dhclient approach.
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1252 [12:35:14] <bibble> The network manager GUI has an "additional DNS servers", but doesn't seem to work/enable.
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1258 [12:38:24] <bn_x> test
1259 [12:38:35] <bibble> success
1260 [12:38:42] <nevyn> sigh. hydrogen got dropped from unstable :(
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1262 [12:39:01] <jm_> bn_x: use the paste site for pasting stuff, replaced-url
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1267 [12:41:33] <jm_> ,bug rm hydrogen
1268 [12:41:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1270 [12:42:59] <nevyn> oh I got that far and know why. I'm just unhappy about it partiuclalry as upstream doesn't have debian packaging info in their repo
1271 [12:44:21] <jim> in bash, what's the difference between set and declare?
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1275 [12:45:12] <jm_> set deals with shell options, declare is for variables
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1285 [12:52:15] <mlokpc> Hello, what is the best way to look for RAM issues except memtest? Thank you
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1287 [12:54:37] <jm_> mlokpc: when I had memory issue compiler was segfaulting left and right, so try build something big in parallel
1288 [12:54:58] <nkuttler> mlokpc: define best
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1295 [12:55:56] <jim> mlokpc, curious, what has you exclude memtest?
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1303 [13:00:00] <mlokpc> jim: just wondering if there is any other tool
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1305 [13:01:48] <mlokpc> If ram has free capacity yet a swap is running at the max is it a good idea to increase swappiness?
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1308 [13:02:38] <EriC^> i think increasing swappiness will make it swap more not less
1309 [13:02:50] <EriC^> what's its current value?
1310 [13:03:05] <mlokpc> EriC^: 7.45G
1311 [13:03:12] <EriC^> i mean the swappiness
1312 [13:03:22] <EriC^> i think 20 is default
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1318 [13:05:57] <mlokpc> EriC^: yepp that would match
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1323 [13:07:51] <Iridos> Next to <debian clone> and <aptitude clone> … is there also a method using the apt binary?
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1354 [13:31:34] <ksk> Iridos: what is "debian clone"?
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1356 [13:32:11] <jm_> ksk: /msg dpkg debian clone
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1359 [13:33:31] <Orbstheorem> Why dh-python is able to infer the package dependencies from the setup.py, but not the build-depends ?
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1367 [13:37:36] <ksk> !tell Iridos about apt-clone
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1383 [13:47:08] <themill> Orbstheorem: build-deps have to be installed before dh-python is ever run
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1397 [14:01:51] <bibble> Even with different nameservers active, Google & Cloudflare, "dig -t a torproject.org" is wrong. ISP hijacking the requests ? How to ensure real DNS lookups ?
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1400 [14:02:40] <bibble> dig reports using 8.8.8.8:53
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1402 [14:03:06] <bibble> But answers with self ip address.
1403 [14:03:25] <bibble> Normal sites work normally.
1404 [14:03:41] <tds> that zone is dnssec signed, so you should be able to have a local validator tell when false records are being returned
1405 [14:03:46] <hwm4rgs> dig has a +dnssec flag i think you can use that
1406 [14:04:03] <bibble> Will try
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1410 [14:04:04] <hwm4rgs> or DoH if you like wrapping protocols in protocols
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1412 [14:04:12] <tds> that will set the dnssec ok flag on outgoing queries, but won't do any validation for you
1413 [14:04:16] <hwm4rgs> ah
1414 [14:04:19] <tds> but yeah, DoH or something similar might be an option
1415 [14:04:35] <tds> it's possible the nameserver will just stop lying to you when you ask for dnssec though
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1418 [14:05:20] <bibble> "+dnssec" after and before URL gives same wrong address.
1419 [14:06:13] <bibble> Not sure how to clean this poisoned dns
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1422 [14:07:11] <bibble> Might have to send whole desktop through a VPN ;__;
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1424 [14:08:12] <bibble> Residential ISPs are becoming so restrictive.
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1449 [14:27:40] <JadeTheArcticFox> Hello?
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1451 [14:29:22] <jan6> something weird: tor's systemd unit starts the torsocks proxy and stuff, but not the hidden service, while manually running tor with the same line starts everything correctly... any ideas?
1452 [14:30:32] <NetTerminalGene> guys, what is the default image viewer of debian xfce?
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1463 [14:38:02] <diogenes_> NetTerminalGene, should be ristretto.
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1465 [14:39:55] <NetTerminalGene> diogenes_, thanks
1466 [14:40:09] <diogenes_> you're welcome
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1506 [15:11:15] <randompleb> I have 2 ips on my local network that show up in my neighbour routing table (ip neigh). What's this about?
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1508 [15:13:57] <Malivaso> 2 ips?
1509 [15:14:17] <randompleb> yes, 2 ip addresses
1510 [15:14:30] <randompleb> actually, 3 but the third one is the router
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1537 [15:25:38] <zumba_addict> is logrotation turned on by default?
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1552 [15:37:22] <Akuw_> hi
1553 [15:38:01] <Malivaso> hi
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1557 [15:40:17] <Akuw_> i cant login in vsftp server
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1651 [16:35:49] <Akuw_> i cant connect to vsft
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1653 [16:35:53] <Akuw_> vsftp
1654 [16:36:05] <Akuw_> the same users for ssh are dfor ftp?
1655 [16:36:23] <Akuw_> s/dfor/for/g
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1657 [16:36:28] <greycat> That would depend on which FTP service you're using and how you configure it. I imagine some of them use "virtual users".
1658 [16:36:42] <greycat> Some may be configured for anonymous FTP only.
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1665 [16:38:57] <nifker> Does debian have packages for this? replaced-url
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1667 [16:39:37] <nifker> libratbag doesnt support my device
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1675 [16:41:47] <Akuw_> greycat: anonymous is disabled --> "anonymous_enable=NO"
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1677 [16:42:22] *** adikt is now known as everyone
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1679 [16:42:40] <Akuw_> i am getting "530 Login incorrect."
1680 [16:42:55] <greycat> Did you enable whatever it is that allows it to use Unix accounts?
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1683 [16:44:34] <Akuw_> no
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1688 [16:46:07] <greycat> according to replaced-url
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1696 [16:50:13] <catphish> debian appears to have /sys/devices/system/memory/auto_online_blocks disabled, is there a correct way to enable this permanently?
1697 [16:52:19] <Akuw_> "local_enable=YES"
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1699 [16:52:44] <greycat> !ftp
1700 [16:52:44] <dpkg> File Transfer Protocol (FTP) is a method of moving files between systems using TCP/IP. Not secure; consider using superior protocols (sftp, rsync) for new setups. Ask me about <ftp must die>, <scp>, <sftp>. See also <ftpd>.
1701 [16:52:49] <greycat> !ftp must die
1702 [16:52:49] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE! replaced-url
1703 [16:52:57] <greycat> Recommended reading.
1704 [16:55:08] <Akuw_> is vsftp
1705 [16:55:16] <Akuw_> very secure ftp
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1707 [16:55:30] <greycat> It's secure by default, because it doesn't let anyone in by default.
1708 [16:55:35] <greycat> Letting people in makes it less secure.
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1710 [16:55:55] <catphish> "the most secure FTP server", great
1711 [16:56:10] <greycat> "the least painful stab wound"
1712 [16:56:23] <catphish> ^ this
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1715 [16:57:04] <catphish> more generic question, is there a standard place to control /sys/devices settings? like sysctl?
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1731 [17:08:37] <jelly> catphish: there's sysfsutils and /etc/sysfs.conf but honestly that package brings a shell init script, you might as well do it from rc.local
1732 [17:09:37] <catphish> jelly: any idea how other distros handle it (it seems to have the default i want in ubuntu and centos), a kernel compile time option perhaps?
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1736 [17:10:00] <jelly> I have no idea.
1737 [17:10:04] <catphish> thanks anyway!
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1744 [17:10:48] <catphish> according to the kernel docs, the default is "offline" (not the value i want) so they must be changing it somewhere
1745 [17:11:36] <jelly> I've noticed centos VMs get their RAM increase automagically as well
1746 [17:11:43] <catphish> some explanation here replaced-url
1747 [17:12:08] <catphish> yeah it works nicely in centos and ubuntu, i'm hoping to apply the same setting to my debian VM templates
1748 [17:12:14] <catphish> or postinstall
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1750 [17:14:36] <catphish> here we go... "Some other distributions like RHEL carry special udev rule with them:" SUBSYSTEM=="memory", ACTION=="add", ATTR{state}=="offline", ATTR{state}="online"
1751 [17:15:11] <catphish> they go on to say "To make things work automagically CONFIG_MEMORY_HOTPLUG_DEFAULT_ONLINE option was introduced. I'd like to have it enabled in Fedora."
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1753 [17:15:40] <catphish> so i guess in time, this will be the default across more distros, but for now the udev approach looks sane
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1755 [17:15:53] <catphish> i apply something very siumilar with CPUs anyway
1756 [17:15:55] <jelly> > We currently document that /sys tunables shall be written with tmpfiles drop-ins
1757 [17:16:07] <jelly> said the systemd peoples
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1761 [17:16:41] <jelly> I'm not sure that udev thing works
1762 [17:17:24] <catphish> that should online memory as it appears rather than setting auto_online_blocks, but the result would be the same i hope
1763 [17:17:31] <catphish> i'll try it
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1765 [17:17:58] <dka> My gf was on her way to seoul and she just called me and pretext that south korea is refusing foreign flight due to corona, is that true?
1766 [17:18:04] <dka> Oups wrong channel
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1790 [17:35:02] <dob1> dka, there is a channel on freenode to ask these things?
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1792 [17:38:11] <twobitsprite> dob1: probably connected to multiple networks
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1809 [17:47:45] <catphish> jelly: that udev rule does work :)
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1811 [17:48:27] <catphish> jelly: i now have replaced-url
1812 [17:48:31] <catphish> thanks
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1814 [17:48:47] <jelly> !win catphish
1815 [17:48:47] <dpkg> Congratulations, catphish! You have won a lifetime supply of spam!
1816 [17:48:59] <catphish> lol
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1821 [17:49:38] <bibble> Jesus, Mary, & Joseph! Downloaded latest Tor Browser, changed security shield setting to safest (JavaScript disabled), and JavaScript is still enabled. Won't even change after switching between settings. That's crazy.
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1839 [17:58:33] <no_gravity> I wish there was a solution to make "ls" show files starting with a dot first and not all over the place.
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1841 [18:00:15] <greycat> *sigh* FUCKING CROSS POSTING IDIOTS
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1843 [18:00:34] <greycat> As I said in ONE OF THE OTHER CHANNELS WHERE YOU JUST CROSS-POSTED... LC_COLLATE=C ls -a
1844 [18:00:38] <greycat> *plonk*
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1848 [18:03:41] <annadane> bibble, then ask tor support, #debian probably can't help you
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1851 [18:05:13] <ratrace> greycat: lol!
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1853 [18:06:42] <jelly> !comfort greycat
1854 [18:06:42] <dpkg> There, there, greycat. It's OK. I'm here for you.
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1858 [18:08:33] <jelly> greycat: could have also said "no_gravity: already answered in #bash" instead of subjecting everyone else to SHOUTING and public plonking
1859 [18:09:19] <no_gravity> Setting LC_COLLATE to C will have other terrrible consequences. Like "Low" now coming before "high"
1860 [18:09:30] * jelly does not see how EXTRA CAPS IN CROSSPOSTED CHANNEL helps anyone (except, possibly, greycat's psyche)
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1862 [18:09:46] <jelly> no_gravity: so sad!
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1865 [18:10:30] <jelly> solution: write your own locale definition which has dots first, and case insensitive
1866 [18:12:00] <no_gravity> "ls -v" might be a glimmer of hope. It has side consequences but not as dire as setting LC_COLLATE to C.
1867 [18:12:01] * jelly has gotten used to us ascii order where Low should, indeed, come before high.
1868 [18:12:20] * greycat experimented with a tweaked en_US locale, following the abomination that buster performed with LC_TIME, but in the end, he went with LC_TIME=C instead
1869 [18:12:41] <jelly> what did... wait, I don't want to know.
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1874 [18:16:47] <ratrace> jelly: at least to me that's okay, I love when greycat shouts and plonks. :)
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1876 [18:17:00] <greycat> wooledg:~$ LC_TIME=en_US.UTF-8 date; LC_TIME=C date
1877 [18:17:00] <greycat> Tue 03 Mar 2020 12:16:55 PM EST
1878 [18:17:00] <greycat> Tue Mar 3 12:16:55 EST 2020
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1881 [18:17:37] * greycat punishes jelly with knowledge
1882 [18:17:39] <no_gravity> "ls -v" it be. Even though then "100" comes before "0200".
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1887 [18:19:53] <bibble> annadane: 👍
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1889 [18:20:22] <jelly> no_gravity: well 100 is less than 128.
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1891 [18:21:11] <no_gravity> jelly: filenames are strings
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1925 [18:40:30] <Wulf> How can I configure grub2 to require a password if and only if something other than default is booted?
1926 [18:41:13] <Wulf> I managed to require always a password, but unattended boots are needed.
1927 [18:42:32] <Randolf> Wulf: Have you seen this document? replaced-url
1928 [18:43:14] <Wulf> not yet
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1930 [18:44:41] <Randolf> Hopefully that helps.
1931 [18:45:00] <Wulf> a bit, thanks
1932 [18:46:08] <Randolf> Excellent! Hopefully you can get things going the way you want now.
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1942 [18:51:33] <Wulf> Randolf: works partially. Problem I'm facing is a) modifying existing config files means problems on pkg upgrades; b) that parameter is added to all entries
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1945 [18:52:56] <Randolf> I've never tried to do what you're attempting, so I don't know the answer. It's a shame that document doesn't quite resolve the problem for you. :(
1946 [18:53:08] <siodor> good evening :-) Is there a "sane" way to create a Debian VM template which will install the correct VM extension package depending on what it detects on first run or is it easier to maintain multiple Debian VM templates tailored for different Hypervisors?
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1949 [18:55:07] <embden__> hello, are there kvm related packages in debian for arm?
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1952 [18:57:30] <Wulf> Randolf: okay, can't think of any better option. thx
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1970 [19:11:42] <GrimSleepless> Hi guys! I have an issue with Debian Buster on ARM. I am trying to update my DNS using resolvconf but it doesn't work. Can someone give me a hand to understand what I am doing wrong?
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1972 [19:12:23] <greycat> resolvconf is used to take *control* of things that are modifying your /etc/resolv.conf against your will, or to coordinate when there's more than one such thing.
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1974 [19:13:29] <GrimSleepless> and resolv.conf is the one that keeps track of the dns that I am using, right?
1975 [19:13:40] <GrimSleepless> as far as my comprehension goes
1976 [19:13:53] <greycat> /etc/resolv.conf is the file that tells libc where to send DNS query packets, yes.
1977 [19:14:23] <greycat> on a typical non-server system, your DHCP client daemon updates /etc/resolv.conf whenever instructed to do so by the DHCP server
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1979 [19:15:29] <GrimSleepless> In my case, I have no DHCP server. And I can override the DNS manually in the /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/base
1980 [19:15:38] <GrimSleepless> Am I still correct?
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1982 [19:16:04] <greycat> If you're not using DHCP, just remove resolvconf and make sure /etc/resolv.conf is a FILE and not a symlink created by some abomination daemon thing, and edit it by hand.
1983 [19:16:58] <GrimSleepless> When I run `resolvconf -u`, it should update the DNS I speak to and allow me to resolve the domain e.g replaced-url
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1987 [19:17:25] <greycat> If you're not using DHCP, where do you think it's going to get the nameserver IP addresses from?
1988 [19:17:31] <greycat> Just edit /etc/resolv.conf by hand.
1989 [19:17:38] <greycat> Get rid of all the extra complicating layers.
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1991 [19:17:59] <GrimSleepless> greycat: Alrigh! Good! Thank you! You helped me greatly!
1992 [19:18:09] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: You can add "dns-nameservers 8.8.8.8" to your /etc/network/interfaces file to make sure that your desired nameservers are included in /etc/resolv.conf (I use this with Static IP configurations, but I don't see why it shouldn't work with DHCP as well).
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1994 [19:18:27] <greycat> Randolf: and what program reads those?
1995 [19:18:59] <greycat> Meh, who knows, who cares... people gotta make things more complex.
1996 [19:19:23] <greycat> "I want file X to contain content Y, so I'll edit file Z!"
1997 [19:19:24] <Randolf> greycat: I don't know off hand, but I've been using this approach successfully.
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1999 [19:20:01] <Randolf> /etc/resolv.conf is, in a sense, a shared resource, so there are systems in place to manage it through automation.
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2001 [19:21:24] <GrimSleepless> If I remove the resolv.conf and stop the deamon of resolv.conf. I should be able to add the dns directly to /etc/interface/network and not worry about this ever again? This is what I understand from this.
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2004 [19:22:14] <greycat> "resolvconf" is a package. It can be removed. "resolv.conf" is a file in /etc/ and should not be removed.
2005 [19:22:18] <Randolf> You don't need to remove the resolv.conf file.
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2007 [19:22:50] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: I suggest trying the /etc/network/interfaces approach first. If that works well for you, then stick with it because you're not having to remove something that comes with the system.
2008 [19:23:31] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: You also don't need to mess around with the daemon. Just use "systemctl restart network" after you've updated your interfaces file.
2009 [19:23:31] <greycat> !override dns
2010 [19:23:32] <dpkg> To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See replaced-url
2011 [19:23:35] <greycat> Also see that.
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2018 [19:25:40] <GrimSleepless> Cool guys! Thank you for your help!
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2020 [19:29:14] <Randolf> You're welcome. Did that modification to /etc/network/interfaces work for you?
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2022 [19:29:44] <GrimSleepless> Randolf: I will in a minute. I have a thing or two to do first!
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2031 [19:35:29] <GrimSleepless> It there an archive somewhere of this chat?
2032 [19:35:44] <greycat> !irc log
2033 [19:35:45] <GrimSleepless> I would like to keep your suggestions somewhere if you don't mind
2034 [19:35:46] *** Joins: Justme (~Justme@replaced-ip )
2035 [19:35:50] <GrimSleepless> !irc log
2036 [19:35:50] <greycat> !irclog
2037 [19:35:50] <dpkg> i heard irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at replaced-url
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2040 [19:36:03] <GrimSleepless> You guys are awesome :)
2041 [19:36:04] <Randolf> Feel free to copy what I've written here and share it with others.
2042 [19:36:16] <GrimSleepless> Randolf: Great Thank you!
2043 [19:36:16] <bn_x> test
2044 [19:36:24] <Randolf> bn_x: Test passed.
2045 [19:36:27] <GrimSleepless> bn_x: It worked!
2046 [19:36:37] <bn_x> oh hello
2047 [19:37:06] <bn_x> i have a problem. i'm running debian 10. my battery indicator says "estimating". how can i resolve this?
2048 [19:38:24] <Randolf> bn_x: Some systems need a longer period of time to estimate battery life.
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2050 [19:38:34] <Randolf> Is this a new installation?
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2052 [19:39:25] <bn_x> when i installed, it was indicating the percentage but after the updates it began to says estimating. and it never changes
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2056 [19:40:16] <Randolf> Have you rebooted?
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2058 [19:40:45] <st4rry> hi all
2059 [19:41:27] <st4rry> do u recommend some encryption tools for debian? encryptfs still okay ? coz I don't see it in the deb repo
2060 [19:41:59] <greycat> replaced-url
2061 [19:42:08] <greycat> "The ecryptfs-utils package is not part of buster due to an unfixed serious bug (#765854). At the time of writing this paragraph, there was no clear advice for users of eCryptfs, except not to upgrade."
2062 [19:42:47] <bn_x> Randolf, yes. it says like that for 2-3 days
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2064 [19:43:35] <st4rry> thanks @greycat
2065 [19:45:38] <st4rry> I actually needing some good encryption tool, I found zulucrypt in the cache. But cryptsetup with luks might be okay I think
2066 [19:45:54] <st4rry> do u recommend something else ?
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2068 [19:46:10] <Randolf> bn_x: I don't know then. I wonder if there's some sort of a history for the power daemon that needs to be cleared since the update?
2069 [19:46:47] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: You may find this document to be of interest as it talks about resolveconf and how to configured it in your interfaces file: replaced-url
2070 [19:47:13] <bn_x> @Randolf, i didn't get the second sentence. can you explain it clearly?
2071 [19:47:27] <GrimSleepless> Randolf: Thank you! I will have a look!
2072 [19:47:28] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: Note that "dns-nameservers" is just like the "dns-nameserver" command except that it can support multiple DNS servers (space-delimited).
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2074 [19:47:52] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: The "dns-search" parameter should also be noted as it can be very useful in system administration.
2075 [19:48:19] <GrimSleepless> Randolf: Yes, I was aware of this , dns-search is especially useful at the office!
2076 [19:48:35] * greycat still does not understand why it's desirable to learn a whole new syntax for a whole new file just so you ca put information in file X to have it get mutated and copied into file Y, instead of just putting the info into file Y in the first place
2077 [19:48:55] <Randolf> bn_x: I'm wondering if the power daemon that was updated might need something akin to a fresh start -- if there's a cache or history datafile of some sort, then clearing that might help. (I don't know if such a file exists though as I don't know much about the power daemon.)
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2079 [19:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1556
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2082 [19:49:28] <greycat> bn_x: or maybe you need some non-free firmware?
2083 [19:50:12] <Randolf> greycat: The problem is that /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten by automation, and this is what most administrators are expecting these days -- there are multiple triggers that can update /etc/resolv.conf through automation, and placing DNS resolver details into /etc/network/interfaces makes sense.
2084 [19:50:46] <GrimSleepless> Weird, I don't see our conversation on replaced-url
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2086 [19:51:07] <greycat> GrimSleepless: the same *day*? uh...
2087 [19:51:27] <GrimSleepless> I hoped haha
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2094 [19:53:02] <bn_x> @Randolf i get it. but i dont know how to acquire logs
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2096 [19:53:41] <bn_x> @greycat i have no idea. after the update it began to say estimating, thats all i know
2097 [19:53:55] <greycat> sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware
2098 [19:53:56] <st4rry> are you guys all debian developers ?
2099 [19:54:00] <greycat> no
2100 [19:54:10] <Randolf> GrimSleepless: I believe that's for the oftc.net IRC server. You're having this conversation on irc.freenode.net, which is a different IRC network.
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2102 [19:54:47] <Randolf> st4rry: I'm not. I'm a systems administrator who has a background in Novell NetWare, NetBSD, and now moving things along into Debian Linux. What about you?
2103 [19:55:20] <st4rry> cool and very impressive .. I was system admin and IT support on windows
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2106 [19:56:09] <st4rry> I moved on linux .. and my first linux was debian based (Kali) yes I know I was wanna be hacker once and I moved on to debian
2107 [19:56:21] <st4rry> and fall in love with deb :D
2108 [19:56:26] <Randolf> st4rry: Oh, I look after Windows [so-called] servers too, but that doesn't make me feel proud. I'm often decommissioning then to solve site problems for people, and virtualizing whatever requires Windows.
2109 [19:56:41] *** Joins: marus (~isy@replaced-ip )
2110 [19:56:52] <st4rry> yeah ! it doesn't make me feel proud too
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2112 [19:57:12] <bn_x> are you guys it?
2113 [19:57:28] <Randolf> One of the things I really like about Debian is that it comes with very little software pre-installed by default. I also really like that it uses ifupdown and not the disaster that NetPlan is (which is where Ubuntu is going -- it's okay for end-user workstations, but not for servers).
2114 [19:57:41] <Randolf> bn_x: It?
2115 [19:57:52] <st4rry> bn_x u mean IT ?
2116 [19:58:09] <greycat> maybe he's going to hide and expects us to look for him
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2118 [19:58:21] <marus> hello everyone, i have debia buster, and want to install flash player following this Tutorial, and without success: replaced-url
2119 [19:58:26] <st4rry> Randolf: Yeah I love the it has huge community and most of the great systems are based on debian
2120 [19:58:33] <marus> any recommendation about install flash player for firefox
2121 [19:58:36] <marus> in debian 10
2122 [19:58:38] <bn_x> IT
2123 [19:58:40] <bn_x> i mean
2124 [19:58:58] <st4rry> bn_x: yeah IT
2125 [19:59:01] <st4rry> what about u
2126 [19:59:25] <Randolf> st4rry: If you meant IT, then I do a lot of that. I also do a lot more. I'm running approximately 50 internet servers that I co-locate here in Greater Vancouver, BC, Canada, and have a whole bunch of related work in this area.
2127 [19:59:40] <st4rry> people call us "IT" haha :D "hay , IT! come and solve this and that! HURRY !"
2128 [19:59:50] <Randolf> Heheh.
2129 [20:00:03] <greycat> marus: download flash_player_npapi_linux.x86_64.tar.gz from adobe's web site, unpack it somewhere, mkdir -p ~/.mozilla/plugins, and copy libflashplayer.so into it
2130 [20:00:06] <NetTerminalGene> marus, are you sure firefox support flash nowadays?
2131 [20:00:12] <bn_x> cool, i like admins
2132 [20:00:21] <st4rry> Randolf: that's so great ! that
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2134 [20:00:28] <st4rry> that's why people call us I.T
2135 [20:00:29] <st4rry> hehe
2136 [20:00:38] <greycat> NetTerminalGene: it is my grave misfortune to be able to confirm that, yes, firefox-esr still supports Flash Player
2137 [20:00:48] <Randolf> st4rry: I have a client who has me looking into switching their whole office over to Linux. They don't trust Microsoft, and Windows 10 has serious privacy issues.
2138 [20:00:57] <NetTerminalGene> greycat, :O
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2140 [20:01:24] <Randolf> marus: You might find folks in the #Firefox (or whatever channel it is) to be most helpful with that.
2141 [20:01:36] <bn_x> i didnt get the joke :p
2142 [20:01:42] *** Quits: Hammerschlag_ (~Hammersch@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2143 [20:01:47] <marus> Randolf: i hope that also ;-)
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2145 [20:02:03] <greycat> You don't think my answer will work? Um. OK. Have fun.
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2150 [20:03:13] <Randolf> marus: I mostly use Opera for all my web browsing. Firefox and Chrome are the two others I occasionally use. Once in a blue moon someone asks "What about Internet Explorer" or "What about Edge?" to which I reply "What about them? They're dead technology that hardly anybody uses anymore."
2151 [20:03:27] *** holgersson_ is now known as holgersson
2152 [20:03:28] <st4rry> Randolf: yeah .. Linux already conquered almost the whole world !
2153 [20:04:04] <marus> Randolf: i use it because it's default debian webbrowser :P
2154 [20:04:30] <st4rry> people know the taste of open-source nowadays
2155 [20:04:54] <Randolf> st4rry: ...and then the smartphone marketshare being overwhelmingly Android and Apple have left Internet Exploder and Bleeding Edge out in the cold in a way that has forced die-hard vendors to support different web browsers since they can no longer tell users to use the dead technology from Microsoft anymore.
2156 [20:04:56] <bn_x> closed source is best
2157 [20:04:59] <st4rry> Randolf: do u recommend some encryption tool?
2158 [20:05:43] <NetTerminalGene> Randolf, i denounce you because you use opera
2159 [20:05:48] <Randolf> st4rry: I use OpenVPN. I also like OpenSSL. On the Windows side I used TrueCrypt, but it doesn't work in Windows 10 and none of the forks of TrueCrypt are ready yet as far as I know.
2160 [20:06:00] <NetTerminalGene> it was bought by a chinese company
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2162 [20:06:07] <Randolf> NetTerminalGene: Ha ha ha! I support your right to freedom of opinion and freedom of expression!
2163 [20:06:20] <st4rry> Randolf: Thanks , I mean for Debain
2164 [20:06:25] <Randolf> NetTerminalGene: Fun fact: The USA has borrowed a lot of money from China.
2165 [20:07:00] <Randolf> st4rry: I haven't looked into this yet. I will be as part of moving one of my client's entire offices over to Linux (from Windows).
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2167 [20:07:17] <st4rry> I used to use ecryptfs , but it looks a bit buggy now .. wanna use something better to encrypt my external hard drive
2168 [20:07:40] <NetTerminalGene> st4rry, luks?
2169 [20:07:48] <st4rry> Randolf: yeah i know.. U are getting busy
2170 [20:07:49] <Randolf> On NetBSD there was cgd, but I'm pretty sure Linux doesn't use that.
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2175 [20:08:03] <st4rry> NetTerminalGene: Thanks ! cryptsetup ?
2176 [20:08:13] <NetTerminalGene> i think so
2177 [20:08:27] <st4rry> okay .. I'll figure it out.. Thanks always
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2179 [20:08:53] <NetTerminalGene> i use it on my external drives
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2183 [20:09:35] <NetTerminalGene> i plug in my usb drive and it popups password autentication
2184 [20:10:15] <Randolf> NetTerminalGene: Thanks, I'm making a note of this software. I'll take a look at cryptsetup in the future: apt show cryptsetup
2185 [20:10:18] <st4rry> NetTerminalGene: Great, So I'll use it as per your recommendation . Thanks.
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2187 [20:10:37] <st4rry> really good to know you guys !
2188 [20:10:53] <NetTerminalGene> st4rry, but it only works on gnu/linux
2189 [20:11:00] <fbm> Hi, I migrated to Debian from another OS and have some problems. For example, .icedove keeps inhibiting the launch of Thunderbird, and when i delete it, it keeps auto-regenerating at each boot. Also, I have a bunch of desktop icons from wine installs and they keep auto generating even after I delete them. Do you think a re-install would fix this?
2190 [20:11:41] <st4rry> yep, I'd use it only with my debian
2191 [20:12:17] <fbm> When i copy the contents of the previous install over, I would just make sure to exclude these problem files.
2192 [20:12:18] <NetTerminalGene> st4rry, luks is your best bet then
2193 [20:13:00] <greycat> I still think you tried to move from a NEW version of thunderbird/firefox/whatever to an OLDER version.
2194 [20:13:07] *** Joins: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip )
2195 [20:13:17] <greycat> Going forward usually works painlessly. Going backward is likely to fail.
2196 [20:13:17] *** Joins: hugh_marera_ (~hugh_mare@replaced-ip )
2197 [20:13:19] <st4rry> FYI: I'd look into vera crypt if I wanna use on multi platform
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2199 [20:14:20] <Wulf> Randolf: I now created a /etc/grub.d/99_pwd that runs sed to write --unrestricted to grub.cfg.new; not perfect but works.
2200 [20:14:31] <st4rry> see ya guys: I'd get my disk encrypted
2201 [20:14:57] *** Quits: hugh_marera (~hugh_mare@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2202 [20:14:57] <Randolf> Wulf: That's excellent! I'm glad you got it working. Perfection can come later.
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2208 [20:17:21] <jhutchins_wk1> ow do I test a UDP connection?
2209 [20:17:26] <jhutchins_wk1> How
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2211 [20:17:45] <st4rry> Randolf: FYI, clamAV is better to use to protect ur linux sys if you have to access some windows files on ur linux (coz we don't know they are clean). Linux doesn't need an AV tho
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2214 [20:18:31] <fbm> greycat, was that comment for me?
2215 [20:18:32] <st4rry> use it with apparmor
2216 [20:18:55] <greycat> fbm: yes, just like the last time
2217 [20:19:00] <st4rry> and firejail for sandboxing
2218 [20:19:16] <fbm> greycat, I can still launch Thunderbird, i justy have to delete that folder each time?
2219 [20:19:27] <fbm> ignore the question mark
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2221 [20:19:57] <greycat> I've never used thunderbird in my life. If my guesses aren't on point, well, it's your fault for not giving us ANY information to work from.
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2224 [20:20:59] <fbm> greycat, well crap keeps auto-generating
2225 [20:21:11] *** Quits: tacatacatique (~latacata@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2226 [20:21:13] <fbm> greycat, even when I hit delete
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2230 [20:23:13] <fbm> icedove originally came from Debian, actually, before they decided to stop using it, leaving me with this issue.
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2233 [20:24:20] <fbm> So when I migrated to other OS', it had no idea what icedove was so it caused no issues, but back in Debian land, where it came from, it does cause issues.
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2235 [20:25:00] <fbm> The prodigal bag of debian merde returns
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2240 [20:26:21] <dob1> icedove was not thunderbird renamed?
2241 [20:26:30] *** Quits: FozzWorth (~FozzWorth@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2242 [20:26:34] <greycat> !Icedove
2243 [20:26:35] <dpkg> [icedove] the name Debian used for Mozilla Thunderbird until March, 2016. See <replaced-url
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2248 [20:29:09] <dob1> ok
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2252 [20:32:15] <dob1> I would like to get more informations about memory usage by processes, not htop. what can I use?
2253 [20:32:32] <ratrace> /proc/meminfo
2254 [20:32:49] <dob1> with the process
2255 [20:33:14] <dob1> my question is, how much memory is consuming gocryptfs I would like to get information about it
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2257 [20:34:06] <greycat> ps auxw | grep gocrypt
2258 [20:34:18] <greycat> or similar, see ps(1) for available options
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2261 [20:34:47] <jelly> fbm: do these issues persist if you create a fresh new user and log in as that?
2262 [20:34:56] *** Quits: kamog (~kamog@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2263 [20:35:02] <greycat> You'll need to understand Unix memory management, in particular the difference between VSZ (virtual size) and RSS (resident set size)
2264 [20:35:38] <dob1> 4.4 1766992 354084 I see these numbers
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2266 [20:35:55] <fbm> jelly, I think I will just reinstall and instead of selecting the whole dang /home folder, I will just select what I want to migrate over.
2267 [20:35:57] <dob1> it's a lot of memory and I am doing nothing on the mounted partition
2268 [20:36:05] <dob1> I don't understand if it's normal
2269 [20:36:28] *** Quits: foka (~foka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2270 [20:36:46] <fbm> jelly, I have swapped from so many OS', who knows what I brought over.
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2272 [20:37:02] <greycat> oh, now it's *more than one*
2273 [20:37:06] <greycat> looooovely
2274 [20:37:19] <fbm> greycat, Is that for me?
2275 [20:37:23] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip ) (Quit: I'll be back.)
2276 [20:37:29] <greycat> Not. Any. More. *plonk*
2277 [20:37:51] <fbm> greycat, Well, some bags of merde originated from Debian, so there
2278 [20:38:10] *** Quits: xb939 (~xb939@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2279 [20:38:29] <fbm> The other stuff came from WINE, and that's another bag of merde alltogether
2280 [20:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1549
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2284 [20:40:56] <fbm> I don't feel like deleting .icedove each time I want to launch my email client.
2285 [20:41:13] <jelly> fbm: do these issues persist if you create a fresh new user and log in as that?
2286 [20:41:43] <fbm> jelly, Yes, as long as I have those icky folders, I can be any user I want
2287 [20:41:56] <fbm> jelly, it's like Agent Smith
2288 [20:42:04] <fbm> keeps coming back
2289 [20:42:19] <marus> anyone here with working flash player on default debian 10 installation with firefox?
2290 [20:42:25] <jelly> fbm: are you starting icedove or thunderbird?
2291 [20:42:32] <greycat> You mean anyone besides me?
2292 [20:42:49] <fbm> jelly, THUNDER! (AAAAAAAAAAA) THUNDER! (AAAAAAAAAAA)
2293 [20:42:50] <greycat> You know, the guy who explicitly told you step by step how to do it?
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2297 [20:45:10] <fbm> greycat, what email client do you use?
2298 [20:45:27] *** Quits: Lord_of_Life (~Lord@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2304 [20:49:19] <jelly> fbm: I can't reproduce that on Debian 10 with a fresh user. thunderbird, run from a terminal, creates ~/.mozilla and ~/.thunderbird, and does not create ~/.icedove
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2306 [20:49:43] <fbm> jelly, Yeah, it's legacy crap.
2307 [20:49:58] <jelly> fbm: what kind of legacy do you have with a fresh user?
2308 [20:50:04] <fbm> jelly, My solution of being selective of what I bring in seems best
2309 [20:50:16] <st4rry> @NetTerminalGene, it works like a charm ! Thanks.
2310 [20:50:19] <fbm> jelly, After a fresh reinstall
2311 [20:50:34] <jelly> I did not ask about a reinstall. I asked: <jelly> fbm: do these issues persist if you create a fresh new user and log in as that?
2312 [20:50:41] <NetTerminalGene> st4rry, \o/
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2314 [20:50:52] <fbm> jelly, Yes, they persist, ooh, do they ever
2315 [20:50:59] <jelly> fbm: to try and see whether the cause was something specific to your user, or not
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2318 [20:51:25] <fbm> fbm, No, I can create users till the GNU comes home and it will be there
2319 [20:52:01] <jelly> fbm: okay. Can you create a new user with "adduser test5", pastebin the outpuf of "ls -la ~test5/", and only then log in as test5 and start /usr/bin/thunderbird?
2320 [20:52:22] <jelly> fbm: and show "ls -la ~test5/" after that.
2321 [20:52:27] *** mrinfinity is now known as infinitybeard
2322 [20:52:28] <joepublic> ~/test5/ ?
2323 [20:52:35] <greycat> no.
2324 [20:52:38] <greycat> ~test5
2325 [20:52:45] *** Quits: st4rry (~st4rry@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2326 [20:52:46] <joepublic> ok. just trying to follow along.
2327 [20:52:52] <jelly> "home of fresh new user named test5"
2328 [20:53:00] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2329 [20:53:09] <greycat> ~usernamne is the generalized form of ~ (tilde expansion) which gives you the home directory of username
2330 [20:54:01] <jelly> fbm: because I'm somewhat skeptical /usr/bin/thunderbird creates ~/.icedove unprovoked, if it does, it means there's a system-wide cause and that can probably be fixed
2331 [20:54:34] <fbm> jelly, At one point, the two were one.
2332 [20:54:50] <fbm> jelly, And the one became two.
2333 [20:54:55] * jelly waits for output
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2336 [20:55:26] <dob1> it's not that you are running a script and not the binary of thunderbird?
2337 [20:55:41] <jelly> dob1: /usr/bin/thunderbird is in fact a script
2338 [20:55:41] <fbm> dob1, I just double click the icon.
2339 [20:56:54] *** Quits: starch (~starch@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 27.0.60)
2340 [20:56:54] <jelly> and "the icon" might be calling something else
2341 [20:56:55] <dob1> jelly, why?
2342 [20:57:19] <dob1> for update-alternative?
2343 [20:57:37] <jelly> dob1: there are comments in it that explain the why
2344 [20:57:54] <dob1> jelly, I have not installed on my system
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2351 [21:02:41] <mutantturkey> is there a way to force dh-make-perl to stop fucking with dependencies and just build the package
2352 [21:02:57] <mutantturkey> HTTP::Message is just broken completely building with dh-make-perl
2353 [21:03:40] *** Joins: honsa__ (~honsa@replaced-ip )
2354 [21:03:43] <jelly> mutantturkey: you can try installing as many (build-)deps as packages first
2355 [21:04:13] <jelly> ,v libhttp-message-perl
2356 [21:04:14] <judd> Package: libhttp-message-perl on amd64 -- jessie: 6.06-1; stretch: 6.11-1; buster: 6.18-1; bullseye: 6.22-1; sid: 6.22-1
2357 [21:04:38] <jelly> someone has managed to package it, apparently
2358 [21:04:44] <jelly> so it can be done!
2359 [21:05:11] <greycat> judd build-dep libhttp-message-perl
2360 [21:05:12] <judd> Package libhttp-message-perl in buster -- Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 10); Build-Depends-Indep: libencode-locale-perl, libhttp-date-perl, libio-html-perl, liblwp-mediatypes-perl, libtry-tiny-perl, liburi-perl, perl.
2361 [21:05:21] *** Quits: honsa__ (~honsa@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2362 [21:05:24] <jelly> mutantturkey: which version do you need?
2363 [21:05:25] *** Quits: fbm (~fbm@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2366 [21:06:13] <Noboru55> Hello everybody
2367 [21:06:46] <Noboru55> i am running debian buster and i can't use my intel wifi here
2368 [21:07:13] <Noboru55> when i was running the debia 9, i just added the non-free on sources.list and installed that firmware-iwilsometing
2369 [21:07:27] <Noboru55> and worked, but it's not working in debian 10
2370 [21:07:33] <greycat> firmware-iwlwifi
2371 [21:07:37] <jelly> Noboru55: that ought to work for buster as well
2372 [21:07:58] <Noboru55> firmware-iwlwifi is already the newest version (20190114-2).
2373 [21:08:12] <jelly> Noboru55: are you using a nonstandard kernel maybe?
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2376 [21:08:25] <Noboru55> debian 10 lxde_live (installed now)
2377 [21:08:32] *** Joins: zyley (~zyley@replaced-ip )
2378 [21:08:43] <jelly> Noboru55: what does "uname -a" say
2379 [21:08:47] <Noboru55> the wicd doe not show any wireless connection
2380 [21:08:54] <Noboru55> Linux pc204 4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1 (2020-01-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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2383 [21:09:11] <jelly> ,v firmware-iwlwifi
2384 [21:09:12] <judd> Package: firmware-iwlwifi on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 0.43; jessie-security/non-free: 20161130-5~deb8u1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-5; stretch-backports/non-free: 20190114-2~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-2; buster-backports/non-free: 20190717-2~bpo10+1; bullseye/non-free: 20190717-2; sid/non-free: 20190717-2
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2387 [21:09:31] <jelly> Noboru55: do you have the OS installed or are you still booting from live?
2388 [21:09:37] <Noboru55> os installed
2389 [21:09:46] <Noboru55> i installed through live
2390 [21:09:50] <jelly> that's fine
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2392 [21:10:13] <jelly> Noboru55: can you pastebin your "dmesg" output?
2393 [21:10:23] <Noboru55> how can i use the pastebin ?
2394 [21:10:37] <jelly> !pastebinit
2395 [21:10:37] <dpkg> A command-line tool to send data to a <pastebin>. To paste e.g. your sources.list do "apt-get install pastebinit; pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list"; to paste the output of a program do e.g. "dmesg 2>&1 | pastebinit". For a list of pastebin sites do "pastebinit -l". See also <pastebinit config>, <nopaste>.
2396 [21:10:52] <Noboru55> ok, a minute please
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2400 [21:11:24] <jelly> or, if you have curl, maybe
2401 [21:11:32] <jelly> dmesg | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' replaced-url
2402 [21:12:12] <Noboru55> replaced-url
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2404 [21:12:42] <jelly> [ 15.148047] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware iwlwifi-3160-17.ucode
2405 [21:12:42] <jelly> [ 15.148809] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: loaded firmware version 17.3216344376.0 op_mode iwlmvm
2406 [21:12:50] <jelly> well that looks firmwareful.
2407 [21:12:56] <Noboru55> weird
2408 [21:13:17] <Noboru55> my wicd shows nothing.. no wireless connections avaliable
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2410 [21:14:09] <Noboru55> it worked very well in debian 9... but i am not sure that i used xfce i guess
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2414 [21:16:44] <jelly> well you could install kernel and firmware-iwlwifi from buster-backports and see if there's any difference. Maybe it's not kernel/driver/firmware's fault but something else
2415 [21:16:52] <jelly> !bdo kernel
2416 [21:16:52] <dpkg> Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the <buster-backports> repository. After modifying your sources.list, run «apt update». To install the current backported kernel: «apt -t buster-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
2417 [21:17:01] <jelly> !buster-backports
2418 [21:17:01] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Bullseye (Debian 11) but recompiled for use with Buster (Debian 10) can be found in the buster-backports repository. See replaced-url
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2424 [21:18:20] <Noboru55> my sourcers.list
2425 [21:18:22] *** Joins: enoch85 (~enoch85@replaced-ip )
2426 [21:18:22] <Noboru55> deb replaced-url
2427 [21:18:26] <Noboru55> the end i meant
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2429 [21:18:38] <Noboru55> already apt update and upgrade
2430 [21:18:45] <Noboru55> nothing changes
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2432 [21:19:52] <dvs> Noboru55, you need the -t buster-backports options if you want to install the kernel and firmware from backports
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2434 [21:20:03] <Noboru55> ah,
2435 [21:20:43] *** Quits: Peyam (~maroufi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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2437 [21:21:21] <Noboru55> when i am typing in terminal, and i press tab, it doesn't complete the command
2438 [21:21:26] <jelly> you need to... read the instructions link, actually
2439 [21:21:39] <Noboru55> sorry for my newbie ubuntu thinkings
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2442 [21:22:37] <jelly> completion might not be enabled by default, see if "bash-completion" package is installed
2443 [21:22:50] *** Quits: prince1 (~prince@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2444 [21:23:06] <Noboru55> ok, thank you
2445 [21:23:11] <greycat> it has priority standard, so it should be present unless you went out of your way not to install the standard task
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2447 [21:23:20] <jelly> huh!
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2452 [21:24:00] <Akuw_> with webmin can i configure mail, multi domain hosting, etc like cpanel?
2453 [21:24:28] *** Joins: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip )
2454 [21:25:00] <Sepultura> is there a channel for coding for debian?
2455 [21:25:02] <jelly> !webmin
2456 [21:25:02] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
2457 [21:25:45] *** Quits: wodencafe (wodencafe@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.2 - ##replaced-url
2458 [21:25:54] <jelly> Akuw_: I haven't seen any actually decent control panel that was free.
2459 [21:26:14] <Akuw_> jelly: ok, then i have to use cpanel
2460 [21:26:26] <jelly> or plesk, or dunno.
2461 [21:26:27] <greycat> ...
2462 [21:26:44] <jelly> or learn how underlying components work
2463 [21:29:03] <dob1> ,v libvirt-bin
2464 [21:29:04] <judd> Package: libvirt-bin on amd64 -- jessie: 1.2.9-9+deb8u5; jessie-security: 1.2.9-9+deb8u7
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2466 [21:29:48] <dob1> what this package is on buster?
2467 [21:29:54] <dob1> it has renamed?
2468 [21:30:07] <dob1> on this guide replaced-url
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2487 [21:40:21] <jxel> join #fedora
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2490 [21:41:22] <jxel> oops
2491 [21:41:23] <jxel> lmao
2492 [21:41:32] <dvs> traitor1
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2497 [21:49:34] <wMw> haha
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2501 [21:51:53] <bray90820> Just checking is the correct Debian image for the Raspberry Pi 4
2502 [21:51:55] <bray90820> replaced-url
2503 [21:52:59] <Mathisen> yes
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2505 [21:53:53] <bray90820> Thaks
2506 [21:53:59] <bray90820> *Thanks
2507 [21:55:29] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2508 [21:55:43] <dvs> !raspbian
2509 [21:55:43] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
2510 [21:55:50] <KNERD> If you asked if that was CenttOS and this was the CentOS channel , they would say that is not CentOS and go elsewhere for help
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2641 [22:59:36] <tom_work> I maintain some open source projects and would really benefit from a mailinglist so that people may collaborate easier in it's development and discuss usage of the software. Would it be possible to use the Debian Alioth system for this? and if so who should I ask about that?
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2676 [23:15:02] <annadane> tom_work, perhaps ask #alioth on OFTC
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2686 [23:17:34] <tom_work> thanks
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2698 [23:23:28] <kamil2> i'm writing from lg e610 on Android 6 :)
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