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• 3[00:03:03] <Aebian> can I use a variable inside a cd command in a function? I'm trying to archieve tat $USERNAME gets replaced by the username which doesn't work when passed directly onto cd. I only get cd'd until /users/ The code I tried is: cd /datastore/users/$username
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• 5[00:03:54] <Aebian> oh
• 6[00:04:05] <Aebian> variable had to be in capital
• 7[00:04:10] <Aebian> my bad
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• 12[00:08:10] <jim> Aebian, well the thing is, variable names are case sensitive... so you can have username USERNAME uSeRnaME, as long as you spell it the same way everywhere
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• 14[00:08:25] <Mandorallen> Hi. Has anyone been able to install wine 5 in buster?
• 15[00:08:29] <Mandorallen> Getting this error winehq-stable : Depends: wine-stable (= 5.0.0~buster)
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• 21[00:10:34] <jim> Mandorallen, which release of debian do you have?
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• 25[00:11:51] <Mandorallen> Debian 10 buster
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• 28[00:12:12] <jim> hmm
• 29[00:12:29] <jim> do you have other wine stuff installed?
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• 32[00:13:50] <jim> Mandorallen, do you have nc (package netcat) installed?
• 33[00:14:06] <jim> (try: which nc)
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• 41[00:16:50] <Mandorallen> jim, basically this is the commands ive run replaced-url
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• 45[00:19:16] <jim> Mandorallen, ok. nc/netcat installed?
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• 51[00:20:29] <Mandorallen> can run both nc and netcat command
• 52[00:20:31] <Mandorallen> so i'd say yes
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• 56[00:20:49] <Mandorallen> replaced-url
• 57[00:20:54] <jim> Mandorallen, ok good...
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• 59[00:23:54] <jim> dunno much about wine specifically... and, could you run: (echo whats installed ; dpkg --get-selections | grep wine ; echo policy ; apt-cache policy winehq) | nc termbin.com 9999
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• 62[00:25:06] <Mandorallen> dd@DD:~$ sudo echo whats installed ; dpkg --get-selections | grep wine ; echo policy ; apt-cache policy winehq | nc termbin.com 9999
• 63[00:25:06] <Mandorallen> whats installed
• 64[00:25:06] <Mandorallen> policy
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• 66[00:26:38] <jim> you missed the parens and a few other things. also I don't think you need sudo
• 67[00:26:40] <daedeloth> what could cause /etc/ssl/certs to be populated with pem files, but not with the hashex abcdef.0 files?
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• 71[00:27:56] <Mandorallen> seems to work now when i used this replaced-url
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• 79[00:31:09] <jim> Mandorallen, be very careful when you're installing stuff from places other than official debian archives
• 80[00:32:22] <adikt> +
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• 87[00:41:58] <lavaflow> how can I list installed packages which *aren't* installed because they're dependencies of another installed package?
• 88[00:45:27] <jim> you want installed packages which aren't installed?! they faced each other back to back, drew swords, and shot each other...
• 89[00:45:59] <lavaflow> no, I want installed packages that are leaf nodes in the dependency graph
• 90[00:46:19] <lavaflow> packages which are installed, but aren't considered dependencies of any other installed package
• 91[00:46:36] <jim> maybe packages which weren't manually installed?
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• 93[00:47:22] <jim> rather, packages which -were- manually installed
• 94[00:47:33] <lavaflow> regardless of the method of installation. so including packages that were once installed automatically as dependencies, but for which the package that depended on them is no longer installed (these would be candidates for autoremoval)
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• 96[00:48:31] <jim> so what you want are those candidates?
• 97[00:48:57] <lavaflow> no, I want all leafs in the dependency graph, including but not limited to those autoremoval candidates
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• 100[00:49:43] <jim> you might want to build a dependency graph for all the packages you have installed, then parse that graph
• 101[00:50:29] <lavaflow> do any of apt/aptitude/dpkg have such a feature already?
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• 103[00:51:06] <jim> yeah, apt builds a dep graph each time it installs a package
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• 105[00:51:34] <jim> I dunno if you can normally get access to it
• 106[00:51:51] <jim> however, maybe that's in the apt libs
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• 110[00:54:47] <lavaflow> hmm, I guess I could just use `apt-mark showmanual` and apt autoremove together
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• 118[00:58:02] <lavaflow> apt-mark showmanual actually shows packages I wouldn't consider manually installed. I guess it includes those installed by metapackages like gnome?
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• 122[00:59:05] <Mandorallen> Got wine working but can't seem to install a 32bit application. Damn blizzard, WoW classic is 64bit but the launcher is 32bit...
• 123[00:59:17] <Mandorallen> Getting "Failed to create a graphics context
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• 125[00:59:26] <Mandorallen> Sounds like the nvidia drivers but i got the latest installed
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• 128[00:59:56] <lavaflow> I certainly never manually installed quadrapassel at least..
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• 141[01:09:55] <toli_> guys, do you know if i can download the default systemd services scripts?
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• 143[01:10:46] <toli_> I am looking for the default systemd-suspend.service in particular
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• 147[01:12:46] <mason> toli_: apt download systemd
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• 152[01:19:06] <toli_> mason, thanks, i get a permission error:
• 153[01:19:08] <toli_> ~# apt download systemd
• 154[01:19:08] <toli_> Get:1 replaced-url
• 155[01:19:08] <toli_> Fetched 3,495 kB in 1s (6,252 kB/s)
• 156[01:19:08] <toli_> W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/root/systemd_241-7~deb10u3_amd64.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
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• 159[01:19:56] <epsilonKNOT> lmao
• 160[01:19:58] <epsilonKNOT> toli
• 161[01:20:12] <epsilonKNOT> use something like dpaste to share error messages
• 162[01:20:19] <epsilonKNOT> replaced-url
• 163[01:20:32] <epsilonKNOT> bot kicked you out
• 164[01:20:47] <toli_> Yes, thanks
• 165[01:21:13] <mason> toli_: Don't do it as root.
• 166[01:21:26] <mason> toli_: But either way, your file is there.
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• 175[01:24:24] <toli_> mason, i don't know what i did, but I cannot enable my suspend service, as I get Failed to enable unit: Too many levels of symbolic links
• 176[01:24:34] <toli_> mason, so i am trying somehow to fix this
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• 183[01:32:01] <mason> toli_: systemd is ridiculously fragile this way. That said, maybe look at the actual symbolic links involved. Maybe mask the thing and then enable it again. I'm not sure where it's fouled itself up here... Did you do anything custom with that unit?
• 184[01:33:21] <toli_> mason, but how can I restore the original version of systemd-suspend.servce?
• 185[01:34:09] <mason> toli_: Maybe reinstall systemd from within a chroot, with rescue media.
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• 190[01:38:04] <mason> toli_: Or look at it manually from your downloaded copy and see if there are changes. Diff it. As for the symlink breakage, compare with another system.
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• 234[02:16:47] <chocolate> Is it possible to usb boot at grub command line of a damaged debian install?
• 235[02:17:27] <chocolate> I did find the usb from grub command line
• 236[02:17:39] <chocolate> Is there a command to boot from it?
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• 251[02:28:44] <HSN> hello
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• 262[02:37:38] <jim> hi
• 263[02:38:20] <ryouma> nyov: ltl sound works. thank you very much! the only remaining problem is that the sound is fuzzy. this occurred on the old computer also (same debian installation). so it must be either (1) configuration was and still is wrong (but why would that make sound fuzzy???) or (2) the speakers or cable got old and that made the speakers fuzzy.
• 264[02:39:21] <LtL> ryouma: thats possible, try different spears or headphones.
• 265[02:39:30] <LtL> *speakers
• 266[02:39:43] <somiaj> also go mute the mic, maybe you are getting some strange feedback
• 267[02:40:00] <ryouma> no mic here
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• 269[02:40:12] <ryouma> i will mute it anyway
• 270[02:40:26] <ryouma> alsamixer should be run as user?
• 271[02:40:34] <LtL> ryouma: run alsamixer, check settings, install it if you need to.
• 272[02:40:42] <LtL> yes user
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• 274[02:41:14] <ryouma> mic has been muted
• 275[02:42:05] <ryouma> there are stuff like surround, center, lfe, s/pdif. the last is 0. maybe i should mute the first 3.
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• 278[02:45:04] <ryouma> ok, muted or disabled auto mute loopback line s/pdifs. leaving only pcm master front. (no idea what i am doing but will try.)
• 279[02:45:34] <LtL> ryouma: can't hurt to try. wiggle the speaker jack, see if it creates noise, clean it too.
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• 281[02:46:52] <somiaj> also go check pulse (most desktops pull that in)
• 282[02:47:04] <somiaj> and turn down your volumes, sometimes high volumes causes cheap speakers to be fuzzy
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• 287[02:54:10] <LtL> ryouma: also, if theres a volume control on the speakers, spin the volume up and down, see if the switch is causing distortion.
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• 291[03:00:04] <nvz> ryouma: idk what you call fuzzy but having too much pre-amp (sound card) going into an amp (speakers) causes humm/buzz and dirty controls (like manual knobs on speakers) causes scratchy sounds as does blown speakers
• 292[03:00:39] <nvz> usually dirty knobs only causes issues when adjusting them but if its sitting on dust and the speaker is vibrating it...
• 293[03:00:51] <ryouma> somiaj: i need all the volume i can get, unfortunately. i think the speakers worked before at high volume without fuzziness, and low volumes are still fuzzy. unless yuo mean turning down specific controls along the chain of various controls (master, front, speaker, source). in which case, dunno which would apply.
• 294[03:01:02] <millican> I have to find the "sweet spot" on plugging the speaker jack into the port on one of my computers or it sounds off.
• 295[03:01:24] <somiaj> ryouma: often times it is best to turn the volume down ont he machine, and turn the volumn up on the speakers (let the amplifers do their job)
• 296[03:02:08] <ryouma> nvz: sitting on dust? that would vibrate the control and oh i see the control would caue the fuzziness. i will have somebody trun the knobs down and up again.
• 297[03:02:23] <ryouma> somiaj: agreed, but everything is at max and smoe sources are too soft
• 298[03:02:41] <nvz> I just went out and bought a replaced-url
• 299[03:02:48] <ryouma> millican: interesting. i think it is always fuzzy but worth trying at somet point.
• 300[03:03:29] <ryouma> nvz: i have not heard of blown speakers. maybe that is it then?
• 301[03:03:56] <nvz> ryouma: perhaps, you'd need to try some headphones or other speakers and such
• 302[03:04:07] <ryouma> ah
• 303[03:04:10] <nvz> ryouma: could also be a ground loop issue, or a number of other things
• 304[03:04:42] <ryouma> meaning electricity source? i guess we're diverging from debian here, but hmm
• 305[03:04:52] <ryouma> i could try another outlet i guess
• 306[03:05:19] <nvz> ryouma: yes. a ground loop occurs when there are multiple points of ground in a circuit and there is potential difference between them
• 307[03:05:43] <nvz> ryouma: i.e. the pc is grounded, the speakers are grounded.. and there is a difference in electrical potential between the two grounds
• 308[03:05:53] <ryouma> somiaj: if there were some preamp in ebian taht would make youtube louder when the source is soft that would be great. but it would still be a high preamp feeding into speakers at max
• 309[03:06:43] <ryouma> so i could test that by plugging into same place computer is plugged in then it wounds like
• 310[03:06:45] <ryouma> s
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• 315[03:07:27] <millican> If the speakers plug in via a 3.5mm jack, you could test them with a different source, such as a phone or mp3 player.
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• 318[03:07:40] <nvz> ryouma: if is a ground-loop issue you will often on a pc not only hear some kind of sound when its silent, but you'll hear other things in the computer.. like disk access and other things that change the ground potential.. coming through the speakers.. in the form of faint click/beep like sounds
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• 324[03:08:52] <somiaj> ryouma: I'm just pointing out that often times the speaker port of a sound card is kinda a crappy amp, and turing it way up can cause distortion, and thus turn the volumn down for the sound card but up on your speakers.
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• 326[03:09:16] <nvz> ryouma: due to the complexity of modern sound systems, ground-loop terminators are often a part of higher end audio equipment.. but cheaper stuff (speakers, sound cards, etc.. ) don't have them
• 327[03:10:02] <nvz> a ground loop terminator has to control direction of current and provide resistance/capacitance to compensate for the difference in ground potential
• 328[03:10:39] <ryouma> somiaj: yeah, got it. just can't do that and ahve loud enough speakers. but even when i turn vlc or youtube or gkrellm down the speakers are fuzzy. dunno if i have tried turning alsamixer things down just to find out what the deal is, but in any case it would be too soft.
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• 330[03:11:21] <somiaj> might just need a new soundcard and/or speakers
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• 332[03:11:51] <ryouma> huh no click beep type computer sounds / crosstalk type stuff i think. but there might be hum, dunno
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• 334[03:12:11] <ryouma> somiaj: yeah, i think it's speakers if so as i have tried 2 computers
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• 336[03:13:07] <nvz> the idea is, you want an audio amp to amplify audio, but it has to obey physics and will amplify whatever signal it gets.. and its expecting to get only audio.. when you have difference in ground potential it gets noise from unexpected current on the ground
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• 338[03:14:18] <nvz> with headphones you shouldn't experience a ground-loop issue cause they wouldnt have their own ground to have a potential difference
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• 341[03:15:51] <nvz> and bluetooth typically addresses these issues too cause there is no hard connection
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• 345[03:20:38] <millican> hmmm. I may be looking at a re-install.
• 346[03:20:55] <millican> I didn an update, and now it boots to a black screen with a cursor instead of the login.
• 347[03:21:01] <dvs> reinstall for a sound problem?
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• 349[03:21:17] <millican> no. that's ryouma
• 350[03:21:32] <millican> I seem to be console only now.
• 351[03:21:59] <ryouma> just an up...grade?
• 352[03:22:20] <millican> yes. sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
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• 354[03:22:28] <millican> typical
• 355[03:22:28] <ryouma> :(
• 356[03:23:12] <millican> I've been trying to figure out what's going on with the video driver. The error I get for the startx command is for nvidia drivers. I have an ATI onboard chip.
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• 359[03:24:31] <millican> The sound probably still works though. ryouma, we just need to put our computers together and we'll have everything.
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• 363[03:29:12] <nvz> millican: (uname -r; lspci -nn; lsmod; cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log)|nc termbin.com 9999
• 364[03:29:39] <ndorf> heh. the buster installer wants to create a 100GB swap partition on this system
• 365[03:30:14] <nvz> ndorf: nonsense..
• 366[03:30:30] <millican> big swap
• 367[03:30:49] <ndorf> this is with auto LVM, the only way out is to partition manually.
• 368[03:30:57] <dvs> well, buster might but you can change that.
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• 370[03:31:18] <ndorf> i should say lv, not partition. but anyway... seems wrong
• 371[03:31:19] <nvz> I talked to the buster installer, it said that it has many modes of operation and only does as instructed
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• 374[03:33:16] <millican> nvz: replaced-url
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• 376[03:33:29] <millican> I've not seen the termbin direct before. nice
• 377[03:34:31] <millican> My wife has been telling me to buy a new computer. I might follow her suggestion soon.
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• 380[03:36:48] <dudz> what a nice way for a wife to be
• 381[03:36:54] <dudz> mine doesn't want me to have the ones i have
• 382[03:37:09] <millican> lol
• 383[03:37:11] <nvz> millican: well def have no nvidia anything in there and no nvidia modules loaded, seems you are using stretch (oldstable) and the xlog was truncated.. if you can the full output of /var/log/Xorg.0.log or startx and the output (as root) of journalctl -k would help to see what may be going on
• 384[03:41:01] <millican> nvz: replaced-url
• 385[03:41:30] <millican> interesting. There is something about the bios agp aperture setting. I should check that.
• 386[03:41:47] <millican> don't know why it would change, but ...
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• 391[03:45:32] <nvz> millican: did you unplug the mouse multiple times ?
• 392[03:45:52] <millican> no.
• 393[03:45:58] <millican> should I?
• 394[03:46:12] <millican> hasn't been unplugged in months
• 395[03:46:26] <nvz> millican: no, but it shows it being found, disconnected, found, disconnected.. etc.. many many times.. indicating a possible short or USB bus issue
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• 397[03:46:41] <millican> I'll try a different usb port
• 398[03:46:45] <millican> good eye
• 399[03:46:58] <nvz> millican: also I dont know your usage needs or budget .. but I'd feel bad giving YOUR wife that comptuer much less letting MY wife use something that old :P
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• 401[03:47:29] <millican> lol
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• 403[03:47:32] <nvz> millican: don't see anything else of interest in there other than the machine is old and there is a USB bus issue
• 404[03:47:57] <nvz> millican: the X output might tell more, but it barely showed a few lines of it
• 405[03:48:30] <millican> It does have a few issues. Just didn't expect the video driver oddity.
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• 407[03:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1504
• 408[03:50:13] <nvz> millican: yeah.. I'm using a 5-6 year old Lenovo Thinkpad T440.. they go for around $200 give or take.. nice systems.. Dell also has various Optiplex in smaller MT/SFF/USFF varieties for less than that that are Core2 or Core i w/ 4-8GB ram ..
• 409[03:50:44] <nvz> millican: not just trying to advocate your wife.. I just don't feel the 2GB ram specs say that model came with is sufficient for modern web use
• 410[03:51:02] <millican> We have Thinkpads that we like - I'm on irc with one here. The old Lenovo is a desktop mahine that's been around.
• 411[03:51:04] <nvz> I think 4GB ram is like a minimum for modern web use
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• 413[03:52:10] <millican> It has 8GB. It came with 3, but you're right, it wasn't enough for modern web usage and all the marketing.
• 414[03:52:25] <nvz> millican: yeah its been around alright.. its an Athlon X2.. thats the same kinda machine I'm irc'ing on right now.. its sitting in my father's furnace room I use it as a server cause I'm too cheap to buy a proper server
• 415[03:52:58] <millican> It should work fine for a server.
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• 417[03:53:21] <millican> I appreciate your help.
• 418[03:53:53] *** Joins: r1nt3c (~r1nt3c@replaced-ip)
• 419[03:54:01] <nvz> millican: replaced-url
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• 421[03:54:36] <dudz> yeah usb ports on this laptop have had it, i'm down to 2x, and if i use any unpowered usb hubs from either one the devices will continually disconnect/connect
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• 423[03:54:54] <dudz> Dell studio 1500? something like that
• 424[03:55:05] <millican> nice. and you've somehow removed every trace of dust.
• 425[03:55:21] <dudz> yeah i've pulled it apart once since i've had it
• 426[03:55:33] <dudz> the battery is dead, only works while on 'charge'
• 427[03:56:02] <dudz> i've never bought a laptop before
• 428[03:56:04] <millican> Somehow, the battery on this old X120e can still run for hours. I often don't even take the power adapter with me to work.
• 429[03:56:06] <nvz> millican: yeah I cleaned it before I set it up.. and had to go crazy with the fans cause I ordered two of these and got $10 off each one replaced-url
• 430[03:56:06] <dudz> i'm 35 this yr
• 431[03:56:24] <nvz> millican: they're server class drives, they work great, but they generate some heat
• 432[03:56:45] <millican> nvz: do they use much more power than other drives?
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• 436[03:57:55] <nvz> millican: not that I know of.. I was using them in a USB3 dock with a thin client as my server but they were getting too hot in there.. and when they get hot they slow down.. so I setup that old Athlon X2 desktop with plenty of fan power
• 437[03:58:09] <millican> nice
• 438[03:58:47] <nvz> millican: I've had those drives for almost a year now.. I ordered them last Feb and they've been working great.. its a good deal for some large perm storage.. I got 6TB for around $80
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• 440[04:00:25] <millican> I remember walking with my grandfather in a store years ago and hearing him say, "A 1GB hard drive! How could anyone use that much space?"
• 441[04:01:54] <thenori> lmao
• 442[04:02:23] <nvz> millican: yeah I know the feeling.. I think our first hdd when I was little was 20MB and we said the same thing
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• 444[04:03:03] <nvz> but back then you didnt have mp3s and 12mp photos and all that
• 445[04:03:09] <millican> true
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• 447[04:03:59] <nvz> I could easily fill 30TB if I could bring myself to buy that much..
• 448[04:04:08] <millican> movies?
• 449[04:04:20] <nvz> VMs, local package mirror.. you name it
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• 451[04:04:35] <nvz> if you can't think of ways to use a lot of storage these days, you're not trying :P
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• 456[04:06:27] <nvz> my laptop currently only has a 128GB ssd in it and I'm using nearly half of that to have 9 Buster VMs one for std/base and one for each of the 7 DEs.. I'd like to have one for every version of debian and various different setups if I had the space
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• 458[04:07:04] <dvs> tiny!
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• 460[04:07:13] <millican> Is there much of a difference between Debian 8 and say, Debian 10?
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• 468[04:09:21] <z8z> nvz: A 500gb ssd costs 35$
• 469[04:09:37] <nvz> millican: yes, a lot of difference.. 4 years of development..
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• 471[04:10:05] <dvs> Is Debian 8 even supported anymore?
• 472[04:10:13] <millican> don't think so
• 473[04:10:15] <nvz> z8z: o.O I paid $42 I think for the 240G m.2 I'd bought to put in here and wound up swapping with the 8GB one in my thin client instead
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• 475[04:10:41] <developer24> Debian 8 LTS is done June 2020 replaced-url
• 476[04:11:04] <developer24> LTS is wonderful. Update before June, and go to the next LTS.
• 477[04:11:14] <nvz> ELTS is still going for Debian 7 afaik
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• 484[04:17:12] <ZaZaGX> is Debian 10 LTS?
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• 489[04:22:27] <swift110> sup
• 490[04:22:32] <swift110> z8z, from where
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• 492[04:22:33] <_alx_> I'm having trouble compiling a specific version of Qt5 on debian (windows.h: No such file.) So I know I need to get a toolchain to build for windows, so I installed g++-mingw-w64-x86-64 thinking that would be it but I still get the same error when trying to build. Any thoughts?
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• 494[04:23:47] <z8z> swift110: HP hard drive 4000yen in Japan
• 495[04:23:55] <z8z> swift110: I bet everywhere else too
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• 497[04:24:10] <z8z> swift110: sorry i mean.... ssd
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• 500[04:26:03] <swift110> oh ok
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• 502[04:27:26] <z8z> swift110: There are also cheaper from cfd or crucial but i wouldn't bet on the quality of the cells
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• 505[04:27:38] <z8z> swift110: Prolly very low TBW
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• 509[04:29:21] <swift110> boh i xdd
• 510[04:29:24] <swift110> oh i see
• 511[04:30:31] <bann> anyone?
• 512[04:31:32] <ZaZaGX> no one is here
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• 521[04:43:25] <annadane> hi bann, just ask your question
• 522[04:43:33] <annadane> if we know, we'll answer
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• 537[05:00:09] <retr> guys i can't install new debian 10.3 on my main machine hp ryzen 2500u
• 538[05:00:27] <ZaZaGX> what happened?
• 539[05:00:41] <retr> dark screen
• 540[05:00:58] <retr> just like open terminal but nothing
• 541[05:01:11] <retr> can't type even
• 542[05:02:20] <dvs> is the install media doing this?
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• 555[05:12:50] <TESTED123> hey. Im trying to rename my network adapter to an easy to use name. I created two files on etc/systemd/network namely 10-ethernet.link and 11-wireless.link. Both have a match and link section being match using driver. It doesnt seem to have any effect, i just use ifconfig and the interface names doesnt change. Ive just rebooted. How do i enable the new .link files without rebooting? the man doesnt say how should i reload the .link files for udev
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• 558[05:13:13] <TESTED123> sorru for udev no, for systemd
• 559[05:15:15] <nvz> TESTED123: I was trying to help out systemd maintainer run down an issue with various wifi devices and I was not able to get that to work either.. there is a #systemd channel on this network though where perhaps you could get more help
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• 561[05:16:23] <TESTED123> ok...thanks mate :)
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• 589[05:57:08] <swift110> oh
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• 603[06:10:47] <shat___> How do I get my toolbar back in Hexchat?
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• 605[06:10:53] <shat___> I pressed something. It's gone.
• 606[06:11:31] <shat___> petn-randall: you love CP. I love loli btw
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• 611[06:15:28] <Drizzt321> For the latest 10.3.0 amd64 netinst image, when I try to install on FreeBSD Bhyve virtualization on an AMD 1700x CPU the kernel panics, looks like it's trying to install the spectre_v2 mitigation microcode.
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• 614[06:16:36] <sponix> shat___: you still around ?
• 615[06:16:44] <shat___> sponix: yep.
• 616[06:16:53] <shat___> I love loli.
• 617[06:17:05] <sponix> shat___: right click in the middle of the channel text here ... Go to "view" in that menu popup, and then select "Menu Bar"
• 618[06:17:19] <shat___> Ah, thanks.
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• 620[06:17:28] <sponix> shat___: maybe it was an update that toggled it off, because mine disappeared recently also
• 621[06:18:14] <mkxone> hey, do i get this right -> logrotate cleans up my logs of services apache daily? what i wanted to keep the longer? copy them to another file or increase the logrotate timer?
• 622[06:18:40] <mkxone> *what if i wanted to keep the logs longer. excuse me.
• 623[06:19:19] <sponix> mkxone: to my knowledge it doesn't nuke anything, it just rotates and compresses things for storage
• 624[06:19:51] <sponix> so you should be able to take apache.2.gz and things
• 625[06:20:15] <mkxone> alright so my problem is that the apache 2 logs empty themselves
• 626[06:20:26] <mkxone> okay loooking for the .gz file
• 627[06:20:42] <sponix> mkxone: /var/log/apache2 dir
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• 632[06:22:55] <mkxone> found it, ty
• 633[06:23:09] <sponix> your welcome
• 634[06:23:27] <sponix> use apache2 myself still
• 635[06:23:35] <sponix> easiest setup for what little I do
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• 649[06:36:30] <mkxone> i'm new to hosting and configuring nginx is complicated. not that i've given up on it, still trying. but until i know what i'm doing apache2 is nice.
• 650[06:37:27] <sponix> site I help with has thousands of users and apache2 is still holding up for it. So even pretty large scale doesn't require nginx
• 651[06:37:36] <sponix> well, unless you are talking HUGE
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• 667[07:07:56] <annadane> so i'm going to start using sudo more often instead of just going into the root shell, any caveats i need to know? i guess the only thing is i need to find the option that preserves the root environment as in su -l
• 668[07:09:06] <sponix> annadane: check like sudo -i for that
• 669[07:09:36] <sponix> not sure though.. I sudo the shit outta everything -- just an Ubuntu habit
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• 671[07:10:58] * annadane will look over the wiki
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• 673[07:11:47] <annadane> i have a weird relationship with questions where i know there are resources but i just ask the question anyway and then go digging for stuff while other beleagered users answer
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• 710[07:41:39] <nvz> annadane: there is also sudo -v which allows you to auth and stores credentials until you sudo -k
• 711[07:42:09] <nvz> annadane: useful for repeated operations without having to verify each time
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• 716[07:44:23] <nvz> annadane: sudo -v id; for i in `seq 1 10`; do echo -n "$i: "; sudo id; done; sudo -k; sudo id
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• 719[07:45:05] <nvz> erm
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• 721[07:45:39] <nvz> sudo -v; for i in `seq 1 10`; do echo -n "$i: "; sudo id; done; sudo -k; sudo id
• 722[07:45:44] <nvz> rather..
• 723[07:46:01] <nvz> auth once, sudo 10 times
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• 727[07:49:25] <nvz> though you could just get used to using pkexec instead as sudo isn't installed by default on debian unless no root pw is set, and polkit is on all DE installs, its more modern.. going forward it'd probably be better to get used to
• 728[07:49:33] <nyov> annadane: that's called redundancy
• 729[07:49:40] <nyov> ;)
• 730[07:50:19] <nvz> nyov: c'mon.. annadane used the word beleaguer even if mispelled, I think their vocabulary isn't in question :D
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• 732[07:50:36] * nvz had to look it up
• 733[07:50:43] <nyov> okay, got me there
• 734[07:51:55] <nvz> I suppose its a good word.. fits.. and I couldn't think of another that does
• 735[07:52:16] <nvz> though its goin on 2am and I'm tired and a lil saucy..
• 736[07:53:12] <nvz> took me the last half an hour to realize that blacklight I though I turned on isnt in fact on.. cause its not plugged in :P
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• 751[08:02:56] <yibotg> I can't use the Fcitx on Chromium,How can I solve it?
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• 822[08:52:27] <ksk> hola. quick question. If current working directory has owner == me, should I not be able to chown anything in that folder? I am a bit confused (its quite early over here..)
• 823[08:53:24] <jm_> no, you can't chown to random user
• 824[08:54:39] <ksk> mhhm, in regards to setuid that makes perfectly sense. thanks :)
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• 830[08:57:54] <jelly> you can't even chown to yourself
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• 869[09:19:25] <no_gravity> Good Morning
• 870[09:19:28] <no_gravity> Does aynbody know how to install vim plugins from the debian repos?
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• 883[09:31:15] <jm_> as in packaged vim plugins or what?
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• 888[09:33:32] <ZaZaGX> hello
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• 895[09:36:09] <no_gravity> jm_: replaced-url
• 896[09:36:43] <jm_> no_gravity: right, what about it?
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• 899[09:37:15] <no_gravity> jm_: I wonder how to install it. When I "apt install vim-editorconfig" it throws a bunch of files into /usr/share/vim but it seems vim does not read those.
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• 901[09:38:30] <jm_> no_gravity: try using say vim-addon-manager
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• 904[09:39:09] <no_gravity> jm_: Will that also install it from the debian repos?
• 905[09:39:36] <jm_> no_gravity: it's the debian package name and also command name (you can shorten it to vam)
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• 909[09:39:58] <jm_> no_gravity: i.e. it's used to manage your vim setup
• 910[09:40:27] <jm_> similar tool is vim-pathogen
• 911[09:40:44] <no_gravity> jm_: Yeah, but manage how? Will it pull from the debian repos or from 3rd parties?
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• 920[09:43:34] <jm_> no_gravity: addons register themselves and vam command is used to enable it in your vim config
• 921[09:44:26] <jm_> try man vam
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• 923[09:45:21] <no_gravity> No manual entry for vam
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• 925[09:46:22] <jm_> have you installed vim-addon-manager as suggested before?
• 926[09:46:59] <no_gravity> Kinda. It came as an install-recommend with vim-editorconfig
• 927[09:47:38] <jm_> how do you not have vam man page then? that package includes /usr/share/man/man1/vam.1.gz symlink
• 928[09:48:05] <no_gravity> I don't even have a dir "/usr/share/man/man1/"
• 929[09:48:16] <jm_> on debian?
• 930[09:48:21] <no_gravity> Yup, buster.
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• 933[09:49:39] <jm_> is that on purpose or is that system just utterly broken?
• 934[09:50:18] <jelly> no_gravity: is there anything in /usr/share/man ?
• 935[09:50:19] <no_gravity> It's a pretty normal debian install.
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• 937[09:50:33] <no_gravity> jelly: No. The dir exists but its empty.
• 938[09:50:53] <jm_> it's certainly not normal debian install :)
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• 941[09:51:15] <jelly> perhaps you have a non-standard dpkg hook that removes all man pages at installation
• 942[09:51:37] <no_gravity> It's the debian:10-slim image from docker hub.
• 943[09:51:50] <jm_> ok, then read the man page online
• 944[09:51:59] <jm_> replaced-url
• 945[09:52:11] <jelly> no_gravity: so it's not a normal debian 10, it's something "slim"
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• 947[09:52:21] <no_gravity> Yup
• 948[09:52:47] <jelly> I have no idea who provides that image or what they have done compared to a normal isntallation.
• 949[09:52:55] <no_gravity> The man page looks similar to what I get with "vam -h"
• 950[09:53:05] <no_gravity> But I cannot grasp how you enable a plugin with it.
• 951[09:53:09] <jelly> it's basically a derivative distro
• 952[09:54:07] <jm_> vam list
• 953[09:54:19] <no_gravity> jm_: That shows editorconfig.
• 954[09:54:41] <jm_> vam enable editorconfig
• 955[09:54:50] <no_gravity> jm_: Warning: editorconfig can't be enabled (since it has no disabledby field)
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• 958[09:55:26] <jelly> no_gravity: these "slim" images are not supposed to be used for daily, interactive work
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• 960[09:55:51] <no_gravity> jelly: Works for me so far.
• 961[09:56:16] <jelly> they're there to run a single app in docker
• 962[09:56:32] <jm_> no_gravity: then try install instead of enable (I use pathogen myself)
• 963[09:56:43] <no_gravity> jm_: When I install, where will it pull from?
• 964[09:56:44] <jelly> a non-slim image will have man pages
• 965[09:57:19] <jm_> no_gravity: where the entry in its registry tells it to pull from
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• 967[09:57:43] <no_gravity> jm_: Where do I find that registry and that entry?
• 968[09:57:54] <jm_> no_gravity: man vim-registry
• 969[09:58:01] * jelly looks at replaced-url
• 970[09:58:11] <no_gravity> jm_: No manual entry for vim-registry
• 971[09:58:36] <jm_> no_gravity: I am not going to waste my time giving your links to man pages if you insist on using that slim stuff
• 972[09:58:36] <jelly> jm_: they're using a crippled image where all /usr/share/doc and /usr/share/man is intentionally removed
• 973[09:58:42] <jm_> jelly: yeah noted
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• 976[09:58:54] <no_gravity> ":help registry" in vim works.
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• 978[09:59:27] <jm_> I am trying to show you why removing man pages is a bad idea
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• 982[09:59:54] <no_gravity> Well, I can read those online.
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• 984[10:00:06] <jelly> well, it's useful if you need a minimal OS just to run a single service inside it
• 985[10:00:21] <jm_> then do that instead of showing us "No manual entry for vim-registry"
• 986[10:00:31] <no_gravity> jm_: Yup, just did.
• 987[10:00:32] <jelly> (... which is the whole point of docker, separating single services)
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• 990[10:01:00] <no_gravity> jm_: But it does not really tell me where I find the registry of vim-addons.
• 991[10:01:35] <no_gravity> There is a dir /usr/share/vim/registry/ but that does not have vim-addons.
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• 996[10:02:20] <no_gravity> So I still wonder where "vam install vim-editorconfig" would pull vim-editorconfig from.
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• 999[10:02:50] <jm_> but it had vim-editorconfig.yaml
• 1000[10:03:04] <jm_> has*
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• 1003[10:03:57] <no_gravity> Yes
• 1004[10:04:02] <jm_> read it
• 1005[10:04:06] <no_gravity> And vim-runtime.yaml
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• 1007[10:04:40] <no_gravity> jm_: There is no info where it was pulled from.
• 1008[10:04:50] <jm_> no_gravity: sure there is, it has basedir set
• 1009[10:04:58] <no_gravity> This is a misunderstanding.
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• 1011[10:05:28] <jelly> dpkg: docker-slim is <reply>Official Debian <docker> images each have a slim variant that removes most documentation and is unsuitable for daily use. See .slimify-includes at replaced-url
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• 1013[10:05:28] <dpkg> jelly: okay
• 1014[10:05:51] <no_gravity> jelly: What I mean is: When you tell vam to "install" a plugin. Where does it send tcp packets to and where does it get tcp packets back from with the plugin?
• 1015[10:06:03] <no_gravity> Sorry, that was for jm_ ^
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• 1017[10:06:28] <jm_> no_gravity: nowhere, it relies on files specified in its registry entry, so it only uses what's on your file system
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• 1020[10:06:50] <no_gravity> jm_: Somehow I doubt that. Let me try.
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• 1022[10:08:15] <no_gravity> Hmm.. you might be right ...
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• 1024[10:09:25] <no_gravity> Interesting.
• 1025[10:09:41] <no_gravity> So "vam install editorconfig" does not "install" it in the sense of bringing it to the system.
• 1026[10:09:53] <no_gravity> But rather it creates some symlinks or something.
• 1027[10:10:45] <jm_> yes, that part happens when you use apt to install the relevant package
• 1028[10:10:54] <no_gravity> Nice. That is good.
• 1029[10:10:56] <no_gravity> Thanks a lot!
• 1030[10:11:01] <jm_> no problem
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• 1032[10:11:31] <no_gravity> I'm surprised that nerdtree is not in the repos.
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• 1036[10:12:17] <no_gravity> I would have thought that is the most popular one.
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• 1136[10:58:50] <pluggy> приветствую смотрящих
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• 1138[10:59:09] <pluggy> wtf
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• 1140[10:59:55] <Haohmaru> your bulgarian is kinda broken
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• 1146[11:02:13] <jelly> smells more ukranian or russian to me
• 1147[11:02:42] <Haohmaru> that's why it's broken
• 1148[11:02:44] <Haohmaru> >:)
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• 1153[11:04:52] <Haohmaru> when they sent bulgarian to the russians, they didn't put checksums and sh*t, and it got corrupted during transmission
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• 1156[11:05:16] <Haohmaru> only the alphabet survived
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• 1161[11:06:57] <mindlessmiss> Hi I have a .deb file I want to install how is the best way to install it?
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• 1163[11:07:58] <Haohmaru> the best way is to use apt/synaptic with packages coming from the official places
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• 1165[11:08:15] <Haohmaru> not some dangling .deb file which came from who-knows-where
• 1166[11:08:24] <Haohmaru> mindlessmiss where's the .deb from?
• 1167[11:08:32] <mindlessmiss> google
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• 1169[11:08:37] <Haohmaru> aww noes
• 1170[11:08:47] <mindlessmiss> it's chrome, I already have chromium but I want chrome also
• 1171[11:09:00] <mindlessmiss> i mean google's official chrome
• 1172[11:09:14] <Haohmaru> in that case, it's best that you check if debian documentation or wiki pages have something to say about that foreign package
• 1173[11:09:22] <Haohmaru> since it's "popular"
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• 1175[11:09:35] <Haohmaru> let's see here
• 1176[11:09:38] <Haohmaru> !chrome
• 1177[11:09:38] <dpkg> somebody said chrome was Mozilla's term for a theme or skin, or "Google Chrome", a web browser by Google based on Chromium, ask me about <chromium>. For VIA UniChrome / Chrome9 support, ask me about <openchrome>.
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• 1181[11:11:06] <Haohmaru> other than that, for .deb packages that are on yer harddisk or somewhere, you could use some speshul apt/dpkg commands to install them, but i've personally used "gdebi" which is a GUI thing with a context-menu
• 1182[11:11:20] <Haohmaru> but beware, you might mess up your system
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• 1189[11:13:48] <mindlessmiss> thanks Haohmaru
• 1190[11:13:56] <EdePopede> it must have been chrome i installed a long time ago (since chromium is in the repo)
• 1191[11:14:32] <EdePopede> came as an install.sh, don't remember if there wasn't any .deb yet or of i decided not to use it
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• 1193[11:14:46] <ratrace> mindlessmiss: iirc you can install it with apt. apt install <your deb file>
• 1194[11:14:53] <mindlessmiss> I just like to have both chrome and chromium because I have a bunch of addons etc installed on one and run the other one very baic
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• 1198[11:15:01] <mindlessmiss> basic*
• 1199[11:15:05] <Haohmaru> i'd prefer to have least amount of google crap on my system
• 1200[11:15:08] <Haohmaru> and in my life
• 1201[11:15:16] <EdePopede> but at least with some other 3rd party packages i found out that even .debs are usually working when installing manually into /usr/local
• 1202[11:15:20] <ratrace> but I thought google had a _repo_ you could set up and then install a package regularly
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• 1204[11:15:43] <mindlessmiss> I downloaded the .deb from google but I will try find the repo thanks guys
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• 1208[11:16:10] <EdePopede> ratrace: i still would be concerned of potential name conflicts, or is there a method for packagers to avoid them?
• 1209[11:16:15] <ratrace> mindlessmiss: replaced-url
• 1210[11:16:30] <ratrace> EdePopede: one can set repo priority
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• 1214[11:19:28] <EdePopede> ah, that was something i wanted to ask anyway. say i plan to use some 3rd party stuff using their repo, but they also have packages i want to stay in the official repos with. maybe wouldn't work if there was a direct dependency, but what if the packages are not really related to each other?
• 1215[11:19:47] <ratrace> EdePopede: replaced-url
• 1216[11:20:25] <EdePopede> yay. thanks. another entry going away from my debian bucket list.
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• 1220[11:25:37] <EdePopede> later i may try later to get something from sid sitting at the end of the dependency chain.
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• 1224[11:28:14] <EdePopede> youtube-dl looks like a good candidate. only used by mpv here and new releases already waiting before i even unpacked downloads from upstream
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• 1226[11:28:59] <ratrace> EdePopede: you could pip youtube-dl into a virtualenv FTW
• 1227[11:30:05] <EdePopede> ratrace: once i had one of these exosystems installed, may have been pip. iirc right before i abandoned squeeze. really didn't like the implementation. cluttering everything
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• 1229[11:30:58] <EdePopede> my plan was to have a user account to try out things with it, but most of the env was related to that thing later. and every login recreated all the scripts in $HOME
• 1230[11:31:02] <ratrace> you used it wrong then. installing pip MUST be done inside virtualenv only because therwise, yes, it will splat all over your debian package pythons
• 1231[11:31:48] <EdePopede> may be it was was virtualenv. i never was sure about how to use that whole thing anyway. may also have been the npm thing.
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• 1233[11:32:14] <EdePopede> what i remember were the tons of functions with names starting with 2 underscores
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• 1236[11:32:44] <ratrace> doesn't sound pythonic
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• 1240[11:33:26] <EdePopede> could be i was trying to install something that wanted the newest environment, so i went upstream and was sent around in circles.
• 1241[11:34:56] <EdePopede> i was willing to look at these things a few times over the years, though never really had the need for them. so i ignored them for longer periods and went back occasionally. only to ignore them again because it all looked borked.
• 1242[11:35:37] <EdePopede> it was a bit of a hassle in the past with youtube-dl, but since python now has packages that's over.
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• 1250[11:42:08] <EdePopede> and that's another thing replaced-url
• 1251[11:42:23] <EdePopede> how good are such projects in securing and managing their own stuff?
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• 1253[11:44:53] <EdePopede> during my suse/kde days i once used their multimedia repo. or 3rd party, can't remember. ended up with 3 entries in the menu for multimedia. or media players, can't remember. they used variants of the submenu name, just a typo or "who cares", well i don't care why it was possible. it should not.
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• 1256[11:46:03] <EdePopede> in such an environment you can't simply trust hundreds if not thousands of uploaders to do everything correct, you have to check it and give them the docs and the tools. obviously it didn't happen there, so no.
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• 1261[11:50:02] <ratrace> EdePopede: unfortunately that's a problem, and I'm trying to use third party python modules as minimally as possible. Note, though that debian packged python modules are in the same pickle, because the supply chain attacks occur upstream to debian.
• 1262[11:50:52] <ratrace> but so far the "only" problem was typosquatting packages. breaking into githubs and committing/PR-ing malicious code is an entirely different problem
• 1263[11:51:04] <EdePopede> but debian doesn't throw in new packages all the time, so that can happen just in the freezing window
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• 1265[11:51:47] <EdePopede> the only serious incident with debian i can remember so far was something related to some dev keys years ago
• 1266[11:52:51] <ratrace> don't forget point releases, some packages get bumped to new upstream
• 1267[11:52:55] <EdePopede> and granted, devs shouldn't become so comfortable they forget about the basic rules
• 1268[11:53:41] <EdePopede> ah right, checked ytdl before. buster is done, bullseye and sid are on upstream level
• 1269[11:54:12] <EdePopede> devs including the people running these platforms
• 1270[11:54:20] <ratrace> problem with ytdl is that it _requires_ frequent updates because googs messes up their apis all the time
• 1271[11:54:42] <ratrace> therefore your best bet is pip it into a virtualenv and upgrade when it breaks.
• 1272[11:55:30] <EdePopede> i had a function checking their redirection header for the upstream version, now i only update if something breaks for me
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• 1276[11:58:08] <EdePopede> gosh, what a crap: replaced-url
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• 1278[11:58:27] <EdePopede> "it is like installing locally instead of globally, just like npm"
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• 1280[11:58:42] <EdePopede> explaining exactly NOTHING
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• 1283[11:59:27] <EdePopede> see? > $ pip install virtualenv
• 1284[11:59:29] *** Quits: nksegos (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1285[11:59:33] <EdePopede> install pip in virtualenv
• 1286[11:59:34] <ratrace> EdePopede: apt install virtualenv ; virtualenv --no-site-packages -p python3.7 /some/path/to/where/you/want/virtualenv/dir
• 1287[11:59:39] <EdePopede> install virtualenv with pip
• 1288[11:59:54] <EdePopede> and they ALL go like this
• 1289[12:00:04] <ratrace> source /that/path/bin/activate ; pip install youtube_dl ; <use it>
• 1290[12:00:24] <ratrace> EdePopede: then later uses just source /that/path/bin/activate ; <use it>
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• 1292[12:01:11] <ratrace> the activate script really only mungles your PATH so that any invocation to python checks inside virtualenv first, and any installed package there is aware of it as well
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• 1304[12:09:36] <EdePopede> and again some crap from the web: replaced-url
• 1305[12:09:42] <EdePopede> > wget replaced-url
• 1306[12:09:57] <EdePopede> exactly that's how i'd install such an environment on my pc
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• 1309[12:10:14] <EdePopede> download some installer from some obscure domain and run it as root
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• 1353[12:52:11] <ArsenArsen> hey I am trying to build a docker image but I constantly fail on this apt-get step (the image is FROM debian:buster)
• 1354[12:52:13] <ArsenArsen> 1mE: Failed to fetch replaced-url
• 1355[12:52:16] <ArsenArsen> E: Failed to fetch replaced-url
• 1356[12:52:31] <zamuro> !paste
• 1357[12:52:31] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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• 1362[12:54:52] <ratrace> ArsenArsen: did you run `apt update` first?
• 1363[12:55:10] <ArsenArsen> yep, lemme post the two lines
• 1364[12:55:15] <ArsenArsen> RUN apt-get update
• 1365[12:55:17] <ArsenArsen> RUN apt-get -y install build-essential pkg-config autopoint bison curl flex gettext git gperf help2man m4 mercurial ninja-build python3-mako python3-protobuf python3-yaml texinfo unzip wget xsltproc xz-utils libexpat1-dev rsync python3-pip doxygen
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• 1367[12:55:47] <jm_> ,versions python3.7-minimal
• 1368[12:55:48] <judd> Package: python3.7-minimal on amd64 -- buster: 3.7.3-2+deb10u1; bullseye: 3.7.6-1+b1; sid: 3.7.6-1+b1
• 1369[12:56:00] <ratrace> ArsenArsen: I guess the mirror you're using is out of sync. you could try another
• 1370[12:56:20] <ArsenArsen> I'm not specifying any myself, but I could yeah
• 1371[12:56:27] <ArsenArsen> wait, it may have gone through now
• 1372[12:56:56] <ArsenArsen> yeah it's setting packages up, presumably that means that it worked
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• 1374[12:57:31] <ArsenArsen> oh it did! great, so it was just the mirror being behind at an unfortunate time
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• 1407[13:28:42] <TomyWork> how do i list installed appstream packages?
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• 1414[13:36:11] <Haohmaru> do you mean upstream?
• 1415[13:36:50] <TomyWork> no.
• 1416[13:37:26] <jelly> appstream can be upstream but sometimes appstream is downstream of an upstream
• 1417[13:37:36] * Haohmaru cannot compute an answer
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• 1419[13:38:21] <ws2k3> i plan to do as following. i wanne generate a CSR. send it to the external party they then buy a certificate. and then they can generate a client certificate on that. does this does correct?
• 1420[13:38:23] <TomyWork> basically I asked IT to give me a debian and they installed a desktop debian and i'm trying to turn it into a server debian
• 1421[13:38:53] <ws2k3> TomyWork: there is no debian desktop or debian server there is just debian :P
• 1422[13:39:09] <Haohmaru> just.. uninstall the desktop-y thangs?
• 1423[13:39:11] <ws2k3> TomyWork: you can just remove the GUI. then its a server :P
• 1424[13:39:39] <TomyWork> ubuntu-server and ubuntu-desktop have some more differences than just packages. not so for debian?
• 1425[13:39:45] <ws2k3> TomyWork: correct
• 1426[13:39:53] <TomyWork> i see NetworkManager, for instance
• 1427[13:40:02] <ws2k3> remove it if you dont wane it
• 1428[13:40:08] <petn-randall> TomyWork: They do have more differences? AFAIK they just install different packages.
• 1429[13:40:09] <TomyWork> is that used on debian servers usually?
• 1430[13:40:17] <jelly> TomyWork: the installer is exactly the same; choice of package sets ("tasks") installed makes the difference
• 1431[13:40:27] <ws2k3> TomyWork: jelly exacly that.
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• 1433[13:40:55] <TomyWork> jelly, yeah but purging the packages from the desktop tasks didn't go all the way
• 1434[13:40:57] <Haohmaru> crapbuntu is dumb, don't judge debian by that
• 1435[13:41:12] <TomyWork> Haohmaru, not helpful
• 1436[13:41:25] <ws2k3> TomyWork: just remove what you wanne remove
• 1437[13:41:26] <ratrace> TomyWork: btw, ubuntu-server and ubuntu-desktop have no more differences than which packages they install, which includes meta-packages that yes, might pull in different configs or such, but _all_ of it is based on packaging. (installer differences nonwithstanding) :: same applies to debian
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• 1439[13:42:09] <ws2k3> TomyWork: seems networkmanager is the gui network manager thing you may remove it
• 1440[13:42:25] <TomyWork> the question is: should I just get them to reinstall the thing properly or can i get it mostly okay-ish
• 1441[13:42:47] <Haohmaru> i'd think complete reinstall would take longer
• 1442[13:43:10] <EdePopede> debian stable is how many? 16 DVDs right now? as far as i can see ubuntu is far away from it, so they really may need different flavours.
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• 1444[13:45:45] <jelly> TomyWork: doing a reinstall of just the base system and openssh-server would leave less cruft
• 1445[13:46:12] <joepublic> It's only 3 discs I think if you use BD-R
• 1446[13:46:19] <nevivurn> A reinstall would be better, but you can probably get pretty close with purging task-desktop and the such
• 1447[13:46:22] <ratrace> EdePopede: o.O ?
• 1448[13:46:24] <Haohmaru> but if you're not gonna install fancy desktops the reinstall might be quick
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• 1451[13:46:57] <jelly> !standard task
• 1452[13:46:57] <dpkg> standard task is, like, a "task" that should be installed on all machines during the installer stage. It installs packages that are important, required and standard (i.e. "aptitude install ~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant"). Packages in the <essential> set are always installed. Also ask me about <tasksel>.
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• 1455[13:48:29] <jelly> TomyWork: pastebin the output of "aptitude -s purge '~i !(~pstandard ~prequired ~pimportant)"
• 1456[13:48:57] <EdePopede> ratrace: never used ubuntu, the thing that comes nearest to debian download page is replaced-url
• 1457[13:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1558
• 1458[13:49:11] <ratrace> EdePopede: no I was wondering about the 16 DVDs
• 1459[13:49:13] <TomyWork> jelly, isn't aptitude deprecated?
• 1460[13:49:22] <TomyWork> or has it caught up again?
• 1461[13:49:32] <EdePopede> ratrace: look into the list directory, not the one with the ISOs ;)
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• 1463[13:50:06] <joepublic> aptitude can do certain things that the other apt tools can't. For those things, aptitude is most definitely not deprecated :)
• 1464[13:50:07] <jelly> TomyWork: aptitude is aptitude, it's not deprecated
• 1465[13:50:17] <EdePopede> ratrace, or jigdo: replaced-url
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• 1467[13:50:37] <ratrace> oh look at that
• 1468[13:52:09] <joepublic> jigdo. jig do. now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. long time.
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• 1473[13:53:32] <TomyWork> hmm, removing network-manager and rebooting killed it
• 1474[13:53:42] <TomyWork> looks like there is no fallback
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• 1476[13:54:02] <joepublic> dhcpd (name of network card)
• 1477[13:54:13] <TomyWork> if i had console access :D
• 1478[13:54:20] <joepublic> ah, yes, well.
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• 1480[13:55:22] <joepublic> it's in a... laptop farm?
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• 1489[13:58:10] <jelly> TomyWork: mmm, ignore that aptitude thing, it seems to want to remove required packages and that's bad
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• 1504[14:05:07] <TomyWork> joepublic, it's on an esx cluster
• 1505[14:05:36] <TomyWork> dhcpd ens160 didn't bring the interface up, unfortunately
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• 1508[14:07:56] <TomyWork> I'll probably just ask them to reinstall it
• 1509[14:07:57] <joepublic> oops.
• 1510[14:08:01] <jelly> TomyWork: is thay a typo? dhcpd is a dhcp server, not client
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• 1512[14:08:20] <TomyWork> also asked them to run "dhclient ens160"
• 1513[14:08:25] <joepublic> hmm my typo, sorry
• 1514[14:08:33] <jelly> you don't have console access yourself?
• 1515[14:08:47] <TomyWork> they wont give me console access, so whether they typed it correctly is hearsay
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• 1517[14:09:39] <jelly> TomyWork: reinstall, then, ask them to disable desktop task and only leave standard task and openssh server task enabled
• 1518[14:09:56] <TomyWork> yeah that's what i'll do
• 1519[14:10:14] <joepublic> promise them doritos and diet coke if necessary
• 1520[14:10:22] <TomyWork> they're in another city
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• 1522[14:11:11] <joepublic> working on a laptop in another city is not the most common use case. Nice to see some niche work.
• 1523[14:11:23] <jelly> TomyWork: replaced-url
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• 1525[14:11:57] <jelly> joepublic: not giving access to do your job isn't "niche" either, it's unreasonable
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• 1527[14:12:31] <joepublic> corporate policy vs. IT policies perhaps
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• 1544[14:22:55] <friendlyguy> hi there! i am trying to get timesync via ntp running on a raspberry pi (3b) thats running armbian buster. i know its not stricly debian. but i was hoping since its something "quiet stardard" that i could get some ideas here. :)
• 1545[14:23:17] <friendlyguy> i am trying to use systemd-timesyncd, its configured, and its started
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• 1547[14:24:06] <friendlyguy> when i look at the traffic with tcpdump on udp 123 i can see the clients requests and the servers answers
• 1548[14:24:18] <jelly> !armbian
• 1549[14:24:18] <dpkg> Armbian is a project that has pre-compiled custom Debian and Ubuntu installer images for <ARM> boards, and a small package repository with kernels, drivers, and utilities which are supported in #armbian. It is not a complete distribution, and uses unmodified Debian or Ubuntu official package repos. kernel/hw/installer/building questions: #armbian on chat.freenode.net
• 1550[14:25:15] <friendlyguy> so: something on that machine is actually asking the right server(s) and its getting answers
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• 1552[14:26:58] <jelly> I have no idea how timesyncd works, maybe it needs time to sync up
• 1553[14:27:06] <jelly> like ISC ntpd does
• 1554[14:27:07] <qman__> why do you believe it is or isn't working? did you check the output of timedatectl?
• 1555[14:28:11] <friendlyguy> yes i did, because it says "System clock synchronized: no"
• 1556[14:28:34] <r0me_> hi @aLL - i have an debian system with running sw raid1 - 2 x 2tb - this is an nonproductive server and i want to switch the 2 hdds into raid0 without reinstalling the OS - how could this be done the best/fastest/easiest way?
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• 1558[14:28:37] <friendlyguy> and because " timedatectl timesync-status
• 1559[14:28:58] <friendlyguy> gives me a "Packet count: 0"
• 1560[14:29:13] <friendlyguy> even though i see the packets with tcpdump
• 1561[14:29:44] <qman__> is the local time close to accurate or way off? I'm also not an expert on systemd-timesyncd but other ntp daemons can require the date to be somewhat close in order to work without special configuration options
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• 1564[14:30:12] <friendlyguy> its close to accurate: had to set time to something "close to yet" in order to install tcpdump
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• 1567[14:30:38] <ratrace> friendlyguy: just give it time
• 1568[14:30:42] <ratrace> puns intended
• 1569[14:31:07] <ws2k3> r0me_: i think you cant do that
• 1570[14:31:15] <joepublic> usb real time clocks exist for this reason
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• 1572[14:31:28] <ws2k3> r0me_: from mirror to stripe. yes thats possible but it aint easy
• 1573[14:31:36] <friendlyguy> but if it claims 0 packets and i see packets flowing on udp 123 regularly i think there must be something else trying to sync the time
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• 1575[14:31:56] <ratrace> r0me_: mdadm raid?
• 1576[14:31:57] <joepublic> not successfully, apparently
• 1577[14:32:01] <r0me_> yes
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• 1579[14:32:22] <ratrace> not sure you can because mdadm can't rebalance
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• 1581[14:32:49] <qman__> you can, but not without downtime
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• 1583[14:32:59] <r0me_> donwtime is np
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• 1585[14:33:06] <r0me_> i just need to know the way
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• 1587[14:33:40] <r0me_> on internet you found nothing clear and i already seen this done on another machine
• 1588[14:34:13] <r0me_> i think i have to but one drive offline or mark as defekt - so breaking the raid1
• 1589[14:34:31] <ratrace> pretty sure you can't do that without complete "reformat"
• 1590[14:34:43] <qman__> 1. remove one drive from the array, 2. put that drive in a raid 0 with one missing, 3. copy all data from raid 1 to raid 0, 4. reboot to the raid 0, 5. add the other disk to the raid 0
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• 1592[14:34:58] <ratrace> qman__: raid0 with one missing? how does that work
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• 1594[14:35:13] <qman__> that's true, that might not work
• 1595[14:35:16] <ratrace> RAID0 is stripe, not mirror. there's no "missing". one goes out, the array goes out.
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• 1597[14:35:43] <r0me_> ok this was what i reasearch too @qman__
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• 1599[14:36:06] <r0me_> but i need to edit the grup file before rebooting right ?
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• 1601[14:36:09] <qman__> assuming that it doesn't work that way, you'd then have to muck around with partitions until you get there
• 1602[14:36:32] <r0me_> i have it actually in rescue mode
• 1603[14:37:04] <qman__> in any case, if you're doing this because you don't want to lose some data, you shouldn't be going to raid 0; the best way is to just back up, recreate the raid, and restore
• 1604[14:37:08] <r0me_> and after copy everything on that new raid0 device i need to change th uids in grub right ?
• 1605[14:37:21] <r0me_> the server is empty
• 1606[14:37:34] <r0me_> as i wrote its a nonproductive machine
• 1607[14:37:40] <qman__> then just reinstall, it will be much faster and easier
• 1608[14:37:59] <ratrace> indeed.
• 1609[14:38:03] <r0me_> is a server at isp
• 1610[14:38:21] <r0me_> their netinstall is not able to do it-.-
• 1611[14:38:40] <ws2k3> r0me_: no kvmi/ipmi?
• 1612[14:38:42] <r0me_> and i have no kvm
• 1613[14:38:51] <ratrace> no rescue system to reboot into?
• 1614[14:38:51] <r0me_> and no ipmi sry
• 1615[14:38:57] <ratrace> (with ssh access)
• 1616[14:38:57] <r0me_> yes rescue i have
• 1617[14:39:01] <r0me_> with ssh
• 1618[14:39:09] <qman__> why do you want to go raid 0 in particular? there are a few options that might work depending
• 1619[14:39:11] <ratrace> if it's a decent linux rescue env, then you can do this
• 1620[14:40:06] <r0me_> i just need the full space - thats it
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• 1623[14:40:43] <ws2k3> r0me_: then do it in the linux rescue
• 1624[14:40:48] <qman__> if you just need space, you could go to LVM instead of raid, set up LVM on one disk, copy data, get it booting, then format the other disk and add to the volume group
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• 1626[14:42:43] <qman__> another option that oculd work is to create a new, much smaller raid 1 on one of the disks, copy data to that one, format the other disk and add it as a mirror, then create a raid 0 on the rest of the space, so you wouldn't have all of the space but a lot more
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• 1636[14:49:54] <rafalcpp> when enigmail will work again in debian stable?!
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• 1639[14:52:03] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: Is there any reason why it doesn't work?
• 1640[14:52:18] *** Joins: netmk (~alex@replaced-ip)
• 1641[14:52:56] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: Oh, you probably mean replaced-url
• 1642[14:52:57] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1643[14:53:06] <petn-randall> In which case, the details are in the bug report.
• 1644[14:53:21] <b1ack0p> hi
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• 1646[14:53:58] <b1ack0p> i am still looking for a solution for non working capslock indicator light on tty command line
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• 1648[14:54:43] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: I can't use it in debian 10 buster
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• 1651[14:55:23] <petn-randall> That's probably the vaguest bug description I've heard of all day.
• 1652[14:55:35] <petn-randall> Is your issue related to the linked bug report?
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• 1654[14:56:03] <joepublic> patience, the day is young.
• 1655[14:56:11] <b1ack0p> which one?
• 1656[14:56:17] <rafalcpp> petn-randall: yeah I am confused too. your link mentiones Debian Stretch, not Buster, and is closed
• 1657[14:56:52] <rafalcpp> the but for me is that on Debian 10 (Buster) enigmail is not installable while thunderbird is installed. is this particular subcase reported/being fixed?
• 1658[14:57:40] <petn-randall> !bat
• 1659[14:57:40] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 1660[14:58:15] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: Can you provide the logs for installing enigmail, and 2) for enigmail and thunderbird?
• 1661[14:58:45] <rafalcpp> wait, oh. The thing was that it conflicted now with "icedove" not with thunderbird.
• 1662[14:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1572
• 1663[14:59:59] <petn-randall> Given that icedove doesn't exist in buster it seems like an old remnant from an upgrade.
• 1664[15:00:06] <rafalcpp> indeed
• 1665[15:00:43] <rafalcpp> well that's solved then. I think at first it was indeed conflicting with thunderbird itself, and it got solved recently
• 1666[15:01:26] <rafalcpp> shouldn't such old, unneeded packages be removed, as they cause such confusion? or maybe enigmail should not conflict with any version of icedove as icedove does nothing now?
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• 1670[15:03:59] <petn-randall> rafalcpp: Removing obsolete packages is documented in the upgrade guide, as obsolete packages cause just such things.
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• 1688[15:19:53] <TomyWork> jelly, i sent them a step-by-step guide
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• 1692[15:20:28] <TomyWork> I called it "installation protocol" so they'd hopefully not feel threatened :)
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• 1701[15:24:08] <EdePopede> i think that's why there are all these software "bible"s around, the hope people would follow them without questioning ;)
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• 1722[15:36:26] <b1ack0p> while installing something on other tty screen does it work in background? or should i stay at that tty?
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• 1726[15:38:47] <joepublic> it works on that tty whether you are watching it or not
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• 1734[15:44:13] <b1ack0p> okk
• 1735[15:44:16] <b1ack0p> thx joepublic
• 1736[15:44:29] <joepublic> but of course.
• 1737[15:44:55] <joepublic> for "it works on that tty even if it is closed or destroyed" see screen or tmux
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• 1768[16:00:05] <Cybertinus> hi!
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• 1770[16:02:52] <Cybertinus> I found a Debian 9.0 install just now, in the network that I maintain since 2 week, but when I run `apt update` I get the following error on the security repo:
• 1771[16:02:52] <Cybertinus> Err:11 replaced-url
• 1772[16:02:52] <Cybertinus> 500 Connection failure: Network is unreachable
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• 1775[16:03:24] <Cybertinus> Can I fix this by temporarily disabeling the security repo, upgrade to Debian 9.12, and then enable it again? Or should I fix this in some different way?
• 1776[16:03:48] <Cybertinus> I'm planning on upgrading this machine to 10.3 later on, but first I want to update to a more recent Debian 9, before I do that
• 1777[16:04:36] <Cybertinus> the repo definition looks like this: replaced-url
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• 1779[16:05:49] <zodd> isn´t the new approach to put interface definitions in interfaces.d and keep interfaces clean?
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• 1781[16:06:14] <zodd> oeps. Replying to something in the past... Sorry
• 1782[16:06:52] <zodd> Cybertinus, is no longer the stable release
• 1783[16:07:06] <Cybertinus> zodd: I know, it is the oldstable
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• 1785[16:07:34] <Cybertinus> but for oldstable you can still get security updates, right? For when you aren't running the latest oldstable version :)
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• 1787[16:07:49] <zodd> iirc yes
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• 1789[16:08:27] <Cybertinus> ok, then why do I get this error? :)
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• 1791[16:09:18] <Cybertinus> replaced-url
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• 1794[16:10:41] <zodd> I would check if you have inet access at all from that machine. Also I would consider disabling the src line (add # in font of it)
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• 1796[16:10:49] <zodd> ok
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• 1805[16:14:25] <zodd> Cybertinus, see FAQ at: replaced-url
• 1806[16:14:42] <zodd> could very well be that Buster (current stable) is 1 year old approx
• 1807[16:16:03] <zodd> nope: replaced-url
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• 1825[16:27:55] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: "Connection failure: Network is unreachable" sounds pretty much like a networking issue on that machine, not a problem with the security repos.
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• 1828[16:28:48] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: yeah, sounds like it. But the curl works without an issue...
• 1829[16:29:13] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: curl of what exactly? And from which machine?
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• 1831[16:29:19] <annadane> just curious if anyone knows why the adwaita dark theme in xfce also applies to thunar but some other dark themes don't, like xfce dusk?
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• 1833[16:29:47] <TomyWork> our old internal repo signing key without an expiration date seems to create signatures that stretch's apt considers invalid: W: GPG error: <repo url> stretch Release: The following signatures were invalid: <fingerprint here>
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• 1836[16:30:03] <petn-randall> annadane: IIRC I digged into it, and it might be because the theme only ships data for GTK2 but not GTK3.
• 1837[16:30:10] <petn-randall> (or vice-versa)
• 1838[16:30:40] <TomyWork> I already recreated Release.gpg in the repo and exported and reimported the public key twice, no change, still getting that warning
• 1839[16:30:51] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: a curl to security.debian.org, from the machine which gives this error in the `apt update` output
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• 1845[16:32:50] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: Can you paste the complete output of `apt-get update`? Also, is this machine using a proxy or something?
• 1846[16:33:28] <thome_> how do i determine which applications created a username when they were installed or, even more importantly which applications are still using it?
• 1847[16:33:39] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: the full apt update output: replaced-url
• 1848[16:33:48] <Strife89> I'm confused as to why apt wants to install new packages - especially stuff like "libtrackerminer". replaced-url
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• 1851[16:35:06] <TomyWork> gpg --fingerprint on the repo says "pub 4096R/<fingerprint here> <ancient date here>" for that key. we're signing it with "gpg --output Release.gpg -ba Release" (this is the only secret key on that system)
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• 1853[16:35:11] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: replaced-url
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• 1855[16:35:12] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: "503 OUT OF DISK SPACE" is also something you want to fix.
• 1856[16:35:42] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: yes, that is the next one I'm gonna investigate :). One issue at a time, otherwise I will loose track :)
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• 1858[16:36:24] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: I'm putting my money on a proxy that's breaking stuff, but I'd say a full disk is more urgent and will likely cause unpredictable issues when using apt.
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• 1860[16:37:34] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: it is the remote server that has a full disk. My disk is not full: replaced-url
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• 1865[16:39:06] <petn-randall> Eh?
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• 1868[16:39:31] <petn-randall> I mean the server of course, how would a full disk on your desktop affect your server?
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• 1874[16:41:06] <thenori> How does Debian know what icon corresponds to a binary when it's not launched with a .desktop file?
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• 1888[16:48:27] <TomyWork> thenori, you mean which icon to use in the task bar and such?
• 1889[16:48:40] <TomyWork> the application sets that on startup
• 1890[16:49:17] <thenori> How?
• 1891[16:49:41] <Haohmaru> thenori where are you seeing this icon then?
• 1892[16:49:47] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: yes, I mean the remote repo server. The server that runs ftp.nl.debian.org. Not my server, because that doesn't have a full disk, as shown in the paste. I never mentioned anything about my desktop (which runs Fedora, so discussing that here is very offtopic, and also doesn't have a full disk)
• 1893[16:50:08] <TomyWork> thenori, some X11/Wayland API, I would guess
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• 1895[16:50:20] <thenori> The icon appears when you launch the .desktop file, but it doesn't appear when you launch the binary. Some binaries do show icons when you launch them, though.
• 1896[16:50:42] <thenori> @TomyWork, I can work with that
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• 1899[16:51:12] <davis> hmm. I have detailed notes of my networking woes here, if anyone wishes to help
• 1900[16:51:15] <davis> replaced-url
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• 1904[16:52:43] <thenori> if any lurkers are following along, the Xlib manual is here replaced-url
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• 1907[16:54:08] <TomyWork> what are you trying to do?
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• 1912[16:55:18] <thenori> There's a binary which launches with the icon [unknown] and I'm trying to see if I can get it to launch with an icon.
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• 1919[16:59:56] <TomyWork> thenori, replaced-url
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• 1922[17:00:49] <TomyWork> always better to ask your original problem instead of the problems with your current approach to the original problem :)
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• 1924[17:01:31] <thenori> If you look at my original question, I did actually ask my original problem.
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• 1926[17:01:56] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: Oh wow, yes, it might indeed be from the remote repo. My bad! You might want to change repos, then.
• 1927[17:02:10] <thenori> "How does Debian know what icon is associated with a binary when it's not launched with a .desktop file'
• 1928[17:02:33] <petn-randall> Cybertinus: Though I don't know how fetching a file from the remote repo would cause a "503 OUT OF DISK SPACE".
• 1929[17:02:42] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: yes, I might want to do that, but that's an issue for later
• 1930[17:02:44] <TomyWork> <thenori> How does Debian know what icon corresponds to a binary when it's not launched with a .desktop file?
• 1931[17:02:46] <TomyWork> this?
• 1932[17:03:05] <Cybertinus> petn-randall: now I'm focussing on the security.debian.org error
• 1933[17:03:09] <TomyWork> this is the first time i saw your question. if you asked your original problem before that, i did not see it
• 1934[17:03:10] <thenori> The answer: X11. By the time you linked me the stackoverflow page, I'd already skimmed the entire Xlib documentation and found the XSetIconName and XSetIcon functions
• 1935[17:03:25] <thenori> You answered my question perfectly :)
• 1936[17:04:05] <thenori> I wasn't asking 'how do you set a binary's icon from the command line' bc that's not my problem, my problem is 'How does debian know what icon is associated with a binary when it's not launched with a .desktop file'
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• 1939[17:04:29] <thenori> The stackoverflow page is helpful also though
• 1940[17:04:30] <greycat> that isn't a *problem*. that is an academic curiosity.
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• 1942[17:04:37] <TomyWork> ^
• 1943[17:04:46] <thenori> I'm inclined to disagree.
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• 1945[17:05:01] <TomyWork> then you're doomed to repeat the mistake
• 1946[17:05:04] <thenori> If I know how Debian associates an icon with a binary, I can use that information to associate an icon with a binary.
• 1947[17:05:11] <thenori> In fact, I did.
• 1948[17:05:24] <thenori> My curiousity was purely pragmatic.
• 1949[17:05:31] <greycat> so the actual problem is "I'm developing a brand new X11 application and I want it to have an icon even if ot'
• 1950[17:05:35] <greycat> s run from a terminal"?
• 1951[17:05:41] <TomyWork> you call it pragmatic curiosity, i call it an x-y problem
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• 1953[17:05:44] <thenori> That's not my actual problem, though.
• 1954[17:06:09] <thenori> I'm familiar with the x-y problem and I simply believe it doesn't apply in this situation. Further dissent is irrelevant.
• 1955[17:06:16] <thenori> I appreciate your concern, however.
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• 1958[17:07:12] <petn-randall> moving on.
• 1959[17:07:21] <thenori> You see an x-y problem, I see myself asking "Where can one catch some fish in these parts" instead of "Where can I find dinner?"
• 1960[17:07:26] <greycat> *sigh*
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• 1962[17:07:46] <greycat> I assume the actual problem is a secret, and he will never ever tell us, so ... ignored.
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• 1964[17:07:55] <thenori> replaced-url
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• 1966[17:08:15] <thenori> erm, accidental paste. replaced-url
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• 1970[17:08:58] <thenori> The actual problem is identical to my explanation. It launches with icon from a .desktop, but when launched from binary it has no icon.
• 1971[17:09:11] <jelly> oh wow, someone else is using zynaddsubfx
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• 1975[17:09:47] <tsarompy> just make your own
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• 1977[17:10:48] <tsarompy> i would sudo vim /usr/share/applications/problem.desktop
• 1978[17:11:06] <thenori> It has a .desktop file and it works fine.
• 1979[17:11:25] <tsarompy> in that file you specify the icon
• 1980[17:11:31] <thenori> If you check the first response, it's my name saying "just use a .desktop file"
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• 1983[17:12:12] <tsarompy> Icon=/path/to/icon.png
• 1984[17:12:13] <thenori> only response, really. However, it'd be more professional if the binary was directly associated with an icon like many binaries are.
• 1985[17:12:24] <thenori> tsarompy, you're really not listening.
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• 1988[17:13:53] <jelly> thenori: for X, the icon is an X11 resource of (each) X window. For Wayland apps, no idea.
• 1989[17:14:17] <thenori> Thanks! I'm already on it ^-^ I found the Xlib manual
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• 1991[17:14:31] <jelly> thenori: try running "xprop" on a window of an app that has an icon, and on your app.
• 1992[17:14:49] <jelly> #xorg channel will probably be more useful.
• 1993[17:14:58] <thenori> I might check it out in a bit :)
• 1994[17:15:21] *** Joins: friendly1 (~friendlyg@replaced-ip)
• 1995[17:15:38] <thenori> Right now I'm examining the source code of the project in question to find out where X11 variables get set!
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• 2003[17:18:32] <shigana> .l
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• 2031[17:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
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• 2040[17:34:28] <budlight> hello
• 2041[17:35:15] <Haohmaru> echo.. echo.. echo..
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• 2044[17:36:52] <andruser> I like xfce blender3D python androidos
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• 2046[17:37:28] <Haohmaru> u wot o_O
• 2047[17:38:15] <Haohmaru> did he just came in to quickly tell his dirty secret and run away?
• 2048[17:39:35] <annadane> it's irc, assume yes
• 2049[17:39:51] <annadane> "hi is anyone here pls answer pls pls anyone hello hello hello hello pls" <leave>
• 2050[17:39:54] * Haohmaru goes to get teh eye bleach
• 2051[17:40:44] <Haohmaru> it seemed more to remind of someone coming in, opening up his coat to reveal that he's nekkid, and then running away
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• 2054[17:41:42] <Haohmaru> * joins, "hi, i voted for dolan >:)", * quits
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• 2079[17:57:08] <ratrace> Haohmaru: everyone loves uncle dolan!
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• 2093[18:03:37] <thenori> How do you view the contents of an $app$-docs package?
• 2094[18:03:59] <thenori> e.g. sudo apt install xorg-docs... now what
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• 2098[18:04:52] <somiaj> check /usr/share/doc/packagename
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• 2103[18:06:58] <thenori> is there a widely-accepted docbook xml viewer?
• 2104[18:07:13] <thenori> It doesn't look very pretty in vim and navigating pages is clumsy.
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• 2119[18:14:07] <Zeshy> Did I just discover a monster bug in APT, or do I miss something? "apt full-upgrade" on my testing/amd64 installation wants to remove a manually installed package: replaced-url
• 2120[18:14:27] *** Quits: tyzoid (~tyzoid@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2121[18:15:04] <thenori> @Zeshy, manually installed packages aren't pinned by default
• 2122[18:15:13] <Zeshy> =:-O
• 2123[18:15:16] <thenori> err, not pinned but 'held
• 2124[18:15:28] <greycat> if you don't like apt's solution, you can manually install/delete things yourself, or you can try aptitude... also, this isn't the testing support channel
• 2125[18:15:30] *** Quits: ajazdzewski (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2126[18:15:31] <greycat> !debian-next
• 2127[18:15:31] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 2128[18:15:51] <Zeshy> greycat: Ooops, thanks.
• 2129[18:15:57] <thenori> @Zeshy I can show you how to find all manually installed packages so you can apt-mark hold them all in one command
• 2130[18:16:10] <Zeshy> thenori: If "installed-manually" is ignored anyway, what is it good for?
• 2131[18:16:19] *** Joins: Prath (~Prathames@replaced-ip)
• 2132[18:16:25] <Zeshy> thenori: apt-mark showmanual ... etc. thx =)
• 2133[18:16:47] <greycat> the "manual" mark is there for apt autoremove
• 2134[18:17:00] <greycat> it disqualifies packages from autoremove, if you actually use that
• 2135[18:17:03] <thenori> I have a command for showing all manually installed packages where the version was specified
• 2136[18:17:14] <thenori> zgrep 'Commandline: apt install' /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/history.log.*.g | grep '='
• 2137[18:17:19] <Zeshy> thenori: And actually ... I don't want to block upgrades (which hold would do, right?), just want them to not be deleted.
• 2138[18:17:24] <thenori> Then just use 'apt-mark hold'
• 2139[18:17:40] *** Quits: PsynoKhi0 (~psnkh@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2140[18:17:59] <JackFrost> ...Why would you want to avoid upgrades for all packages you install manually...?
• 2141[18:18:16] <thenori> I avoid upgrades for all packages I've installed manually *where the version was specified*
• 2142[18:18:19] <Zeshy> greycat: "apt" seems to have two autoremove mechanisms: The first is: Make suggestions for autoremove, then second is: remove packages upon e.g. full-upgrade.
• 2143[18:18:45] <greycat> full-upgrade resolution isn't related to autoremove, as far as I know
• 2144[18:19:05] <thenori> Just put them on hold. They'll still show up as having an upgrade available.
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• 2146[18:19:21] <JackFrost> 'apt upgrade' will install new packages if needed, but will not remove. Perhaps that's the one to try here.
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• 2148[18:19:43] <Zeshy> thenori: Err ... but then I would have to manually update each pkg on hold for each available upgrade? That cannot be the solution ...
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• 2150[18:20:07] <thenori> 'manually update' is a dramatization of the effort involved
• 2151[18:20:28] <thenori> you copy the string of 'packages held back' and then paste it into apt-mark unhold
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• 2153[18:20:53] <Zeshy> thenori: Hm, what happens to pkgs on hold? You said the will show up as having an upgrade available. And then what? Does this upgrade happen automatically? Or is there a "apt upgrade-held-packages" command?
• 2154[18:20:57] <thenori> packages stay on hold till they're unheld
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• 2156[18:21:04] <Zeshy> Which would be good enough a solution for me ...
• 2157[18:21:13] *** Joins: tyzoid (~tyzoid@replaced-ip)
• 2158[18:21:31] <thenori> There's no command, but the packages which are available for upgrade but held back are listed each time you apt upgrade
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• 2160[18:21:39] <thenori> so, you can just copy and paste after apt upgrade if you want
• 2161[18:21:45] <Zeshy> oO
• 2162[18:21:57] <Zeshy> That seems like ... a Windows-like solution ...
• 2163[18:22:17] <thenori> lmao you jest
• 2164[18:22:18] <thenori> `zgrep 'Commandline: apt install' /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/history.log.*.g | grep '='`
• 2165[18:22:21] <thenori> mispaste
• 2166[18:22:23] *** Quits: KDr2 (uid216276@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2167[18:22:26] <thenori> The following packages have been kept back:
• 2168[18:22:27] <thenori> libpng-dev libpng-tools libpng16-16
• 2169[18:22:27] <thenori> The following packages will be upgraded:
• 2170[18:22:27] <thenori> carla-git carla-git-data
• 2171[18:22:27] *** thenori was kicked by debhelper (flood)
• 2172[18:22:32] <Zeshy> There /must/ be an official way to make "apt full-upgrade" etc. automatically upgrade all packages, but never remove manually installed packages.
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• 2174[18:22:53] <thenori> My apologies for the flooding my good folks
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• 2176[18:23:18] <Zeshy> thenori: Hmmm ... okay ... so that line would be my "apt upgrade-heldback-packages", so to say ...
• 2177[18:23:30] <thenori> It's the opposite of a windows solution, though. You manage it yourself and they give you all the information openly.
• 2178[18:23:37] <thenori> You've got the right idea.
• 2179[18:23:40] <jelly> !held
• 2180[18:23:41] <dpkg> Packages currently on <hold> can be listed with «dpkg --get-selections | grep 'hold$'» (on hold for apt-get), or «aptitude search ~ahold» (on hold for aptitude). See also <unhold>.
• 2181[18:23:43] *** Joins: ob-sed (~obesd@replaced-ip)
• 2182[18:24:10] <thenori> That line only lists held packages that have an upgrade available.
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• 2185[18:24:54] <Zeshy> thenori: Windows forces me to do stupid work by hand. I expect Linux/Unix to let me automate things -- and for the absolute core competence of Debian, the package management, I do expect this to happen automatically -- which, as it seems, is what aptitude(1) does ... alas, aptitude has dependency resolution problems. :-/
• 2186[18:25:02] *** Quits: shiv_ (~shiv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2187[18:25:16] <jelly> thenori: which line?
• 2188[18:25:27] *** Quits: Q_Continuum (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2189[18:25:28] <thenori> 'the following packages have been kept back:'
• 2190[18:25:46] <thenori> I do 10,000,000x more manual sysadmin work with Linux
• 2191[18:26:07] <Zeshy> thenori: w0000t?!
• 2192[18:26:13] <Zeshy> thenori: You're doing it wrong. =)
• 2193[18:26:16] <thenori> I love sysadmin work
• 2194[18:26:21] <Zeshy> I hate it.
• 2195[18:26:28] <Zeshy> Who doesn't? (thenori doesn't count ;)
• 2196[18:26:31] *** Quits: zodd (~Zzzzzzzzz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2197[18:26:37] <thenori> I don't think I'm doing it wrong, though
• 2198[18:26:43] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2199[18:26:44] <thenori> It produces genuinely joy inside me
• 2200[18:26:49] <Zeshy> O.O
• 2201[18:26:51] <Zeshy> Wow ...
• 2202[18:27:12] *** Quits: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip) ()
• 2203[18:27:17] <thenori> When you find work that's effortless joy, you know you're not doing it wrong.
• 2204[18:27:19] <Zeshy> I mean ... I enjoy the result of automation, but I hate the process (writing scripts/hooks/etc.)
• 2205[18:27:25] <thenori> I love the process
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• 2207[18:27:37] <Zeshy> "thenori is now known as zenori."
• 2208[18:27:43] <thenori> the results I honestly don't worry about too much
• 2209[18:27:48] <Zeshy> :)
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• 2211[18:28:32] <thenori> I do need to attend to the results a bit more than I do.
• 2212[18:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1570
• 2213[18:29:10] <Zeshy> thenori: lazy zen monk
• 2214[18:29:13] <thenori> I'm having fun and learning things though. That's not so bad.
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• 2216[18:29:39] <thenori> I am some lazy, I have some discipline though.
• 2217[18:29:58] <thenori> The monastic life would be an excess in this day and age.
• 2218[18:30:10] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
• 2219[18:30:15] <thenori> One neither I nor my society can afford.
• 2220[18:30:20] <Zeshy> Yeah, but after you've slowly come to the conclusion (over the years) that software is just a terrible, evolutionary heap of trash, the joy shrivels.
• 2221[18:30:33] <thenori> hahahaha
• 2222[18:30:38] <Zeshy> :\
• 2223[18:30:38] <thenori> what a silly thing to say
• 2224[18:30:40] <Zeshy> :}
• 2225[18:30:52] <jelly> Zeshy: the "apt" command has slightly different defaults than "apt-get". Does an "apt-get -s dist-upgrade" have different results?
• 2226[18:30:55] *** Quits: factor (~factor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2227[18:31:08] <thenori> apt is a completely different command from apt-get
• 2228[18:31:09] <Zeshy> jelly: Aaaah, thanks for the hint! Let's try it ...
• 2229[18:31:31] <Zeshy> jelly: Naah, same result. :-/
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• 2232[18:32:50] <jelly> Zeshy: which debian release is this supposed to be?
• 2233[18:32:52] <Zeshy> I wish someone would integrate apt/apt-get's dependency resolution algorithm in aptitude ...
• 2234[18:32:59] <Zeshy> jelly: testing/amd64
• 2235[18:33:05] <Zeshy> jelly: (yeah, wrong channel, I know :-}
• 2236[18:33:13] <Zeshy> jelly: But actually, this probably affects all flavors ...
• 2237[18:33:28] <jelly> oh
• 2238[18:33:36] <Zeshy> Let me try this on a stable rig ...
• 2239[18:34:06] <jelly> ,v qdbus
• 2240[18:34:07] <judd> Package: qdbus on amd64 -- jessie: 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 4:4.8.6+git64-g5dc8b2b+dfsg-3+deb8u2; stretch: 4:4.8.7+dfsg-11; buster: 4:4.8.7+dfsg-18; sid: 4:4.8.7+dfsg-20
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• 2245[18:35:27] <JackFrost> jelly: The question posed seems to be 'how do I run updates without it offering to remove manually installed packages?' rather than 'how do I do this update?', which is certainly more complicated.
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• 2249[18:36:31] <greycat> "I want apt full-upgrade's resolution heuristics to put a higher weight on manually-installed as an indicator to avoid removal" could be a wishlist bug.
• 2250[18:36:33] <jelly> JackFrost: it's not just a manually installed package, it's an obsolete package that used to exist, and some other already existing package may have an explicit Breaks:
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• 2253[18:37:08] <Zeshy> jelly: OMG ... on Stretch, I did "apt-mark auto jed-common jed-extra", while leaving "jed" manual. Then I did "apt remove jed", it suggests "jed-common" for auto-removal, but completely ignores "jed-extra". Argl?
• 2254[18:37:20] <JackFrost> Yes, if you note there's several obsolete qt4 packages installed.
• 2255[18:37:24] <jelly> so it might be impossible to upgrade some other installed package while this one exists
• 2256[18:37:29] *** Quits: b1ack0p (~M@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2257[18:37:40] * Zeshy 's image of the world crumbles under reality.
• 2258[18:37:50] <JackFrost> Yeah, 'apt upgrade' would show what's held back.
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• 2261[18:38:21] <Zeshy> greycat: That sounds great! I think I'm gonna file exactly that!
• 2262[18:38:42] <jelly> Zeshy: some other app may have a dependency on jed-extra. "aptitude why jed-extra"
• 2263[18:39:17] <jelly> (after the autoremove)
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• 2265[18:39:47] <greycat> I see no surprises in Zeshy's auto remove scenario. The two marked as manual are NOT suggested for automatic removal. The one that's not marked, is suggested.
• 2266[18:40:30] <jelly> "apt-mark auto jed-common jed-extra" [...] suggests "jed-common" [only for auto-removal
• 2267[18:40:33] <Zeshy> greycat: nono, I marked TWO (jed-extra, jed-common) as auto, leaving ONE (jed) as manual
• 2268[18:40:56] <greycat> oh, I misread. there's too much going on.
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• 2270[18:41:46] <Zeshy> jelly: Hm, havn't autoremoved yet, but executing "aptitude why jed-extra" prints "i perl-doc Suggests man-browser" and "i A jed-extra Provides man-browser" -- I guess the second line is the culprit, right?
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• 2274[18:42:51] <greycat> The two together.
• 2275[18:43:17] <Zeshy> greycat: Wow ... but that is a mere Suggests ...
• 2276[18:43:38] <Zeshy> greycat: Which should get ignored by default (I even have configured install-recommends: false in apt preferences)
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• 2281[18:46:01] <greycat> what gets *installed* is not necessarily the same as what gets *autoremoved*
• 2282[18:46:10] <greycat> autoremove has its own configs
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• 2285[18:48:39] <jelly> Zeshy: if gets ignored for an install action, autoremove is a different action.
• 2286[18:48:44] * jelly slow
• 2287[18:50:16] <jelly> Zeshy: /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/configure-index.gz mentions AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant "<BOOL>";
• 2288[18:50:23] *** Quits: Pallas_XD (~PallasXD@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2289[18:51:16] <jelly> I could not find that in either apt.conf(5) or apt-config(8) man pages, go figure
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• 2291[18:52:28] <Zeshy> greycat: thx for the hint
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• 2293[18:53:03] <johnfg> hi folks
• 2294[18:53:09] <jelly> so go try your apt/apt-get commands with different -o APT::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant=... and see what happens
• 2295[18:53:27] <Zeshy> Holy cow ... in which package or manpage do I find "APT::Install-Recommends"? It's not in pkg "apt-doc" (tried grep -ir)
• 2296[18:53:36] <Zeshy> jelly: Thx!
• 2297[18:53:44] <jelly> fiik
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• 2299[18:54:23] <johnfg> Any idea where this last group is coming from - uid=1000(johnfg) gid=1000(johnfg) groups=1000(johnfg),24(cdrom),25(floppy),29(audio),30(dip),33(replaced-url
• 2300[18:54:41] <johnfg> i.e., the number after the last comma.
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• 2303[18:54:51] <johnfg> that's from running id
• 2304[18:55:05] <jelly> johnfg: show your: grep ^group /etc/nsswitch.conf
• 2305[18:55:09] <greycat> you could start with grep -r 1095377319 /etc
• 2306[18:55:24] <greycat> or start with jelly's suggestion
• 2307[18:56:18] *** Quits: Prath (~Prathames@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2308[18:56:27] <johnfg> K, I'll do jelly's first, thanks guys.
• 2309[18:56:32] <Zeshy> jelly: Found it! It's in package "aptitude-doc" or on the web: replaced-url
• 2310[18:57:07] <johnfg> group: files ldap systemd
• 2311[18:57:20] <Zeshy> Which means that it only pertains to aptitude, not apt/apt-get ...
• 2312[18:57:57] <johnfg> The latter cmd, from greycat didn't return anything.
• 2313[18:58:15] <greycat> so it's probably coming from LDAP, not a local configuration
• 2314[18:58:32] <jelly> johnfg: it might be coming from nss_files module (which stores group memberships in /etc/group file), or nss_ldap (blah blah ldap), or ... you get the drift
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• 2316[18:59:01] <johnfg> I checked my cn=config, and my data db, and don't find anything out of the ordinary.
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• 2318[18:59:28] <jelly> johnfg: if you're very very lucky "getent group | grep 1095377319" may show it
• 2319[19:00:12] <greycat> the fact that it has no name means it's not likely, but sure, doesn't hurt to look
• 2320[19:00:56] <johnfg> I'm not. That last cmd returned nothing.
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• 2322[19:01:25] <jelly> oh right. nss might not show it. HOWEVER something assigned it at login/su/ssh time, and that would have probably been a PAM module.
• 2323[19:02:11] <jelly> johnfg: what's the parent of that shell, or, how did the user log in?
• 2324[19:02:23] <johnfg> jelly: That's what the folks over at openldap thought, that since there's nothing out of the ordinary in ldap, it probably was from a PAM module. Not sure how to find the culprit though.
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• 2326[19:03:23] <johnfg> jelly: It happens both through the console, e.g. tty1, and through lightdm.
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• 2329[19:03:33] <jelly> johnfg: it is good, if you've investigated this in some depth in a different channel, to TELL the new channel all about it so we can skip all the more obvious quiestions
• 2330[19:03:34] <johnfg> i.e., tty7
• 2331[19:04:14] <johnfg> jelly: I guess I should have told you that I'm quite sure the problem is *not* ldap.
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• 2336[19:04:34] <johnfg> And it's probable that the problem is a PAM module.
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• 2338[19:04:39] <greycat> does it happen with all user accounts, or just you? does it happen if you comment out ldap in your nsswitch.conf?
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• 2340[19:04:48] <johnfg> That's about all I've got.
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• 2349[19:05:09] <greycat> (don't comment it out if this is a multi-user production server)
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• 2359[19:05:44] <jelly> johnfg: and over ssh? It is likely it's a module enabled in an /etc/pam.d/common-* file, or all the {login,lightdm,...} are changed from default
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• 2399[19:10:10] <johnfg> I'm doing some checking, not ignoring your last suggestions...
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• 2417[19:13:07] <johnfg> so, the interesting thing is, root (after doing a su -i), another user from tty1, and I (johnfg) all get 'a' number at the end of id, but they're all different.
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• 2421[19:13:51] <greycat> each accounts gets a different unique number, that stays the same for that account? or is it just random?
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• 2425[19:14:58] <johnfg> greycat: I'll check that. I don't have my passwd/user info in /etc/passwd, but in ldap. Except for a test user.
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• 2429[19:15:41] <greycat> another obvious test to perform would be logging in with the same user account on a different LDAP client system
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• 2431[19:16:50] <johnfg> It looks as though that last number is incremented by one with successive logins.
• 2432[19:17:26] <jelly> that sounds silly
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• 2437[19:18:59] <johnfg> jelly: I agree. But at tty1 (but I'm sure it doesn't matter which tty[1-6], if I login as user, do 'id', then logout, login and do 'id' again, that last number returned is incremented by 1.
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• 2445[19:19:16] <jelly> also, do your ldap admins like apples? The number 1095377319 looks like AJ!§ is you squint just right
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• 2447[19:19:22] <greycat> It doesn't matter which tty. They're all using the same login program and PAM configs.
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• 2450[19:19:39] <jelly> johnfg: what about a login via ssh?
• 2451[19:19:44] <johnfg> greycat: Yup, that's what I thought.
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• 2456[19:20:51] <johnfg> jelly: same over ssh. that number isn't always just incremented by one, but does get incremented after successive logins.
• 2457[19:21:05] <mutantturkey> hello, i am looking to upgrade to buster
• 2458[19:21:13] <mutantturkey> however, sysvinit-core has no installation candidate
• 2459[19:21:18] <mutantturkey> did sysvinit get dropped for buster?
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• 2461[19:22:18] <jelly> mutantturkey: it's slighty repackaged.
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• 2463[19:22:48] <jelly> ,v sysvinit-core
• 2464[19:22:50] <judd> Package: sysvinit-core on amd64 -- jessie: 2.88dsf-59; stretch: 2.88dsf-59.9; buster: 2.93-8; bullseye: 2.96-2.1; sid: 2.96-2.1
• 2465[19:23:18] <johnfg> jelly: I am running both kerberos and openafs clients on this debian buster machine, but I'm not manually configuring the files in /etc/pam.d, but allowing 'pam-auth-update' do it for me.
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• 2467[19:23:29] <mutantturkey> gotcha, so it does mention sysvinit-core replaces it
• 2468[19:23:35] <johnfg> to do it...
• 2469[19:23:38] <mutantturkey> but that then says, E: Package 'sysvinit-core' has no installation candidate
• 2470[19:23:47] <jelly> !bat
• 2471[19:23:47] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 2472[19:23:53] <jelly> mutantturkey: ^ all of that
• 2473[19:24:16] <mutantturkey> it specifically says 'However the following packages replace it: systemd-sysv runit-init"
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• 2475[19:24:32] <mutantturkey> ok thanks jelly
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• 2477[19:25:41] <jelly> johnfg: you might still need to do some manual config changing to find the source
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• 2480[19:27:00] <johnfg> jelly: What should I be looking for? And are you thinking it may be in common-session
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• 2482[19:27:13] <jelly> johnfg: (same warning about messing with config files of a production system applies)
• 2483[19:27:33] <jelly> johnfg: I have no idea. Pastebin the lot.
• 2484[19:27:35] <mutantturkey> jelly: please see: replaced-url
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• 2491[19:28:01] <il> jelley il
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• 2493[19:28:07] <JordiGH> After installing docker.io, how do I start the daemon?
• 2494[19:28:25] <jelly> johnfg: grep -vE '^$|^#' /etc/pam.d/common-*
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• 2499[19:29:17] <johnfg> jelly: I'll pastebin it in a few. First this: not all of the users even get a kerberos ticket or an openafs token, so that number is probably coming from elsewhere.
• 2500[19:29:46] <jelly> mutantturkey: you seem to have pinning in place
• 2501[19:29:55] <JordiGH> Feb 17 13:29:34 chloe systemd[1]: docker.socket: Failed with result 'service-start-limit-hit'.
• 2502[19:29:57] <JordiGH> Eh?
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• 2504[19:31:02] <johnfg> jelly: greycat: replaced-url
• 2505[19:31:07] <usrlocal> cool distro
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• 2507[19:31:47] <jelly> mutantturkey: pastebin also: grep . /etc/apt/preferences /etc/apt/preferences.d/*
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• 2510[19:32:17] <greycat> You remember how they DNS-nuked termbin.com? They did that to dpaste.com too.
• 2511[19:32:21] <greycat> termbin.com has address 146.112.61.107
• 2512[19:32:23] <greycat> dpaste.com has address 146.112.61.107
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• 2514[19:32:36] <mutantturkey> yeah, i have that pinned on jessie to prevent systemd-sysv getting installed
• 2515[19:32:38] <greycat> ("they" being my workplace)
• 2516[19:32:42] <mutantturkey> sounds cray but
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• 2518[19:32:58] <mutantturkey> now it sounds like thats's the replacement for sysvinit-core?
• 2519[19:33:02] <greycat> mutantturkey: there's an actual *procedure* for dist-upgrading from wheezy to jessie and keeping sysvinit in place.
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• 2522[19:33:11] <mutantturkey> this is jessie to buster.
• 2523[19:33:21] <greycat> well, you can't do that in one step
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• 2527[19:33:44] <coot> Is there a way around using a repository in `sources.list` which does not have the `Release` file
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• 2529[19:34:02] <greycat> I'd be rather surprised if a sysvinit jessie system, upgraded to stretch, would switch init systems. But I haven't tested.
• 2530[19:34:18] <johnfg> greycat: Was that about dpaste for me? I tried debian.paste.com, but it says it's down.
• 2531[19:34:25] <greycat> paste.debian.net
• 2532[19:34:26] <mutantturkey> johnfg: okturing works
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• 2535[19:35:10] <mutantturkey> sorry, to clarify this is actually not an upgrade. I am upgrading our scripts which we use to build versions our server images, we are upgrading our systems to buster
• 2536[19:35:32] <mutantturkey> so we start with a base buster image and then run scripts on top get all the software/configs/ etc in the right place
• 2537[19:35:34] <greycat> you're building a buster-installer?
• 2538[19:35:36] <jelly> mutantturkey: that pinning would have only maken sense for jessie, not other releases.
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• 2540[19:35:59] <jelly> mutantturkey: get rid of all the pinning for a test, then show what's happening
• 2541[19:36:18] <johnfg> jelly: Did you see anything in my paste?
• 2542[19:36:22] <mutantturkey> sure, then it should probably work i guess
• 2543[19:36:33] <mutantturkey> so now we get systemd-sysv as the replacement package
• 2544[19:36:39] <jelly> johnfg: only that this config is over my head :-)
• 2545[19:36:47] *** Joins: neechan (~neechan@replaced-ip)
• 2546[19:37:01] <mutantturkey> which depends on systemd
• 2547[19:37:06] *** Joins: grantdb (~kvirc@replaced-ip)
• 2548[19:37:09] <mutantturkey> so sounds like we'll end up with system on the system
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• 2550[19:37:26] <jelly> johnfg: It'd probably try randomly commenting out afs and kerberos and ldap in common-auth and common-session and see if anything makes a difference
• 2551[19:37:44] <johnfg> jelly: I can do that.
• 2552[19:37:47] <mutantturkey> (not trying to re argue systemd/sysvinit, just trying to understand what buster provides)
• 2553[19:37:57] <greycat> !stretch sysvinit
• 2554[19:37:58] <dpkg> To replace systemd with sysvinit in stretch, simply "apt-get install sysvinit-core" and reboot. To switch from systemd to runit in buster or sid, "apt-get install runit-systemd", reboot, "apt-get install runit-init", and reboot again.
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• 2556[19:38:06] <greycat> Not sure about buster.
• 2557[19:38:22] <jelly> mutantturkey: both, but you'll probably get some systemd components install (not the actual init)
• 2558[19:38:32] <johnfg> If you look at the files themselves (which I didn't paste, since I ran the output of that grep cmd) you'll see that the changes were made by pam-auth-update.
• 2559[19:38:34] <greycat> I remember that runit was temporarily unsupported at stretch's release point, hence the factoid being worded that way.
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• 2561[19:38:53] <mutantturkey> this is !buster
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• 2563[19:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1565
• 2564[19:39:04] <jelly> mutantturkey: did you pastebin your preferences and I've missed them?
• 2565[19:39:12] <mutantturkey> sorry, let me do that now
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• 2569[19:40:04] <jelly> buster is _probably_ about the same
• 2570[19:40:38] <mason> mutantturkey: It's entirely possible to do a debootstrap-based install straight to sysvinit. (I'm just catching up, so maybe I missed something.)
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• 2572[19:40:58] <mutantturkey> replaced-url
• 2573[19:41:14] <mutantturkey> mason: for building a chroot etc?
• 2574[19:41:20] <mason> mutantturkey: Yes.
• 2575[19:41:36] *** Quits: OS-67104f (~kali@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2576[19:41:41] <mutantturkey> right now this grabs a stock digitalocean buster install and builds on top of it
• 2577[19:41:51] *** Quits: bayveri (~bayveri@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2578[19:42:03] <mutantturkey> but we also do use FAI to build stuff
• 2579[19:42:08] <mason> mutantturkey: For a chroot you can do whatever. For converting the droplet you'll want to look at one of the guides to do it in order.
• 2580[19:42:35] <mason> Ah, I haven't ever mucked with FAI. My deboostrap installs are standalone scripts.
• 2581[19:42:53] <mutantturkey> mason: FAI is pretty cool. works well for us
• 2582[19:43:07] <mason> mutantturkey: Yeah, it seems nifty. I guess I should look at it sometime.
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• 2584[19:43:43] <mutantturkey> just depends on what you are doing if its useful
• 2585[19:44:03] <jelly> mutantturkey: this does not exist: Pin: release v=8.*,n=buster,l=Debian
• 2586[19:44:12] <jelly> buster is v=10.*
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• 2589[19:44:57] <johnfg> what is FAI?
• 2590[19:45:05] <jelly> mutantturkey: look at "apt-cache policy" output: release v=10.3,o=Debian,a=stable,n=buster,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
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• 2593[19:45:58] <jelly> !fai
• 2594[19:45:58] <dpkg> Fully Automatic Installation (FAI) is an automated tool to install or deploy Debian (and other distributions) on a bunch of different hosts or a cluster. It is more flexible than tools like <kickstart> (Red Hat), autoyast and alice (SuSE) or jumpstart (Oracle Solaris). FAI can also be used for configuration management of a running system. replaced-url
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• 2598[19:47:05] <JordiGH> apt-purging docker.io and reinstalling worked.
• 2599[19:47:16] <JordiGH> yay, so does this mean that docker really does work on Debian without needing dirty 3rd party repos?
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• 2603[19:48:04] <jelly> JordiGH: did you mean: dirty 1st party repos?
• 2604[19:48:26] <JordiGH> Debian is 1st, everyone else is third.
• 2605[19:48:33] <jelly> upstream is first.
• 2606[19:48:49] <JordiGH> Upstream doesn't know what it's doing.
• 2607[19:48:50] <greycat> dirty upstream repos
• 2608[19:48:59] <johnfg> docker works great on both squeeze and buster, imho.
• 2609[19:49:00] <jelly> there's no Debian without upstreams.
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• 2611[19:49:30] <JordiGH> And no upstreams without Debian! (although less directly so, the world would be a much poorer dev place without Debian and derivatives)
• 2612[19:49:34] <jelly> if Debian is first party, upstream is 0th
• 2613[19:50:13] <jelly> so, without dirty zeroth party repos? nullth?
• 2614[19:50:24] <JordiGH> Dirty upstream repos that don't know how to Debian.
• 2615[19:50:46] <jelly> I solve that issue by not using docker at all.
• 2616[19:50:50] <JordiGH> They usually just stick everything in /opt and call it a day.
• 2617[19:51:22] <JordiGH> That had been my solution until now but someone else's code broke today and it was using Docker and guess who they called to fix it?
• 2618[19:51:28] <jelly> sometimes shaking head and writing factoids like !docker-slim
• 2619[19:51:40] <JordiGH> (and it wasn't the Ghostbusters)
• 2620[19:51:41] <jelly> Ghostbusters?
• 2621[19:52:04] <JordiGH> !docker-slim
• 2622[19:52:05] <dpkg> Official Debian <docker> images each have a slim variant that removes most documentation and is unsuitable for daily use. See .slimify-includes at replaced-url
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• 2624[19:52:53] <jelly> "I'm running Debian! buster! Except my system has no /usr/share/man/man1. Or any docs really."
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• 2627[19:53:38] <JordiGH> Oh, it took me a while to figure out what this was sying.
• 2628[19:53:46] <JordiGH> So if you use Debian via docker, it's not Debian, got it.
• 2629[19:54:11] <jelly> it's complicated. There are less crippled images.
• 2630[19:54:16] <greycat> how does one "use Debian via docker", given that docker is meant to run a single process in a glorified chroot environment?
• 2631[19:54:42] <jelly> greycat: the answer is apparently "easily" and also "everywhere"
• 2632[19:55:20] <jelly> and whodathunk, people are using tools for other purposes than what they were designed to
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• 2643[19:57:30] <jelly> we get opaque VM images from vendor with a random distro and half a dozen actual services inside docker inside that VM image. Because somewhere, some dev was taught that running things inside docker was good.
• 2644[19:58:32] *** Quits: forgotmynick (uid24625@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2645[19:59:04] <JordiGH> Docker: because collaboration between software is impossible.
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• 2648[20:00:56] <jelly> go try to figure out which obsolete jvm or libssl is running somewhere without having to do a recursive depth search
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• 2650[20:01:11] <tds> it works on the dev's laptop? great, tar up the laptop and put it in prod
• 2651[20:01:32] <jelly> they honestly look like the result of that, yes
• 2652[20:01:48] <mutantturkey> jelly: yeah so i removed that preference
• 2653[20:01:53] <mutantturkey> i then installed the suggesated replacement packages
• 2654[20:01:54] <johnfg> Thanks for the help and suggestions today guys! I'll let you know if I track down the problem.
• 2655[20:01:59] <mutantturkey> now i am running systemd
• 2656[20:02:04] <mutantturkey> lol
• 2657[20:02:19] <jelly> mutantturkey: does it work?
• 2658[20:02:27] <JordiGH> tds: Yeah, tarring up the laptop and putting it on prod is what Docker is.
• 2659[20:02:43] <mutantturkey> does systemd work? sure it's worked for years, great product
• 2660[20:02:48] *** Quits: neechan (~neechan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2661[20:02:57] <mutantturkey> but not part of our systems so far
• 2662[20:03:02] <jelly> I mean whatever your system is supposed to actually do.
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• 2667[20:05:03] <JordiGH> replaced-url
• 2668[20:05:09] <jelly> I've done the pinning thing during jessie, but after that most bugs got fixed and things generally work in sane manner with systemd. Roughly the same amount of changes to debian defaults required.
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• 2673[20:05:46] <JordiGH> mutantturkey: systemd is great, would never go back to sysv madness
• 2674[20:06:01] <jelly> both are mad, just in different ways
• 2675[20:06:01] <JordiGH> I love how easy it is to add new services to it.
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• 2677[20:06:19] <JordiGH> I love that I don't have to write shell scripts that handle all of the standard options.
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• 2680[20:07:29] <jelly> I don't live the syntax.
• 2681[20:07:37] <jelly> or die it.
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• 2683[20:07:43] <davis> hello, I have managed to get my usb adapter working as a wifi access point. However, my clients can only ping the wifi adapter but not any hosts past the adapter. I suspect its a routing problem. Here are my notes so far. Any help is appreciated.
• 2684[20:07:47] <davis> replaced-url
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• 2686[20:08:28] <mutantturkey> jelly: JordiGH yeah i am not trying to litigate that
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• 2688[20:08:45] <mutantturkey> more that, we already have x hundred crappy scripts and do i really trust they are even sysvinit compatible?
• 2689[20:08:50] <mutantturkey> do i trust that systemd will work? meh
• 2690[20:09:03] <mutantturkey> and yeah "replaced-url
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• 2693[20:10:16] <jelly> mutantturkey: and what happens if you do the install sysvinit-core and reboot. after all that jazz?
• 2694[20:11:05] <jelly> I suspect you'll be able to continue living with the devil you know
• 2695[20:11:38] <mutantturkey> alright so
• 2696[20:11:44] <mutantturkey> rebooted after installing systemd-sysv
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• 2701[20:12:24] <mutantturkey> nvm, i have no clue
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• 2720[20:16:19] <Peyam> hi
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• 2730[20:18:03] <Peyam> Can anyone explaing to me what this line means? virtual const char *what() const throw() . It is a virtual function which means it can be overrided, const char* means that the return value should be a constant char . what does "const what()" means?
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• 2732[20:19:21] <jelly> that sounds more like a question for ##programming or a C++ channel (if that's C++)
• 2733[20:19:33] <Peyam> ohh I though i was in ##programming
• 2734[20:19:35] <Peyam> hahahah
• 2735[20:19:36] <Peyam> sorry
• 2736[20:19:40] <jelly> np
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• 2747[20:25:15] <Whyvn> if there isn't a xorg.conf.d directory by default should I create one? or is there a different convention for debian?
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• 2754[20:26:53] <jelly> Whyvn: mkdir it manually.
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• 2760[20:29:35] <aphorise> How to firmware update so as to have the latest PCI details? just wondering why some things in lsmod are not showing as I expect.
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• 2770[20:35:34] <aphorise> sorry I ment lspci*
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• 2775[20:38:17] <jelly> aphorise: update-pciids, but the file will get overwritten next time pciutils package is upgraded
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• 2777[20:38:48] <jelly> /usr/share/misc/pci.ids
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• 2781[20:40:33] <jelly> aphorise: if your root PATH is broken, the command's full path is /usr/sbin/update-pciids, run it as root
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• 2785[20:43:36] <aphorise> jelly is it also avaible on rpi? :-p
• 2786[20:44:22] <jelly> I don't know, is Debian available on rpi?
• 2787[20:44:32] <JordiGH> "RDD Process"?
• 2788[20:44:53] <JordiGH> Huh, it's some Firefox thing?
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• 2790[20:46:16] <jelly> judd: file bin/update-pciids --arch armhf
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• 2792[20:46:22] <judd> Search for bin/update-pciids in buster/armhf: pciutils: usr/sbin/update-pciids
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• 2813[20:54:43] <aphorise> Having a tearing issue with a hdmi display that in landscape connected to windows on the same orientation works just fine but on rpi's default display manager it only works in vertical mode. Guess I got to dive into X / Gnome settings.
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• 2824[21:00:48] <jelly> if you're actually running Raspbian, ask in
• 2825[21:00:50] <jelly> !raspbian
• 2826[21:00:51] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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• 2835[21:04:36] <aphorise> jelly thx very much
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• 2858[21:19:28] <mason> Is there a way to search out packages in a specific repository? What I specifically want is to be able to point to my local repository and install all the available packages without having to specify them individually, ideally by searching for a keyword or somesuch and awking out the package names.
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• 2862[21:21:35] <greycat> Create a metapackage that depends on all the things you want to install.
• 2863[21:21:56] <mason> greycat: That's reasonable. And grepping through /var/lib/apt/lists also just came up in a search.
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• 2867[21:22:18] <mason> I like the metapackage idea better, though. Thank you.
• 2868[21:23:46] <raver> .
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• 2873[21:24:52] <jelly> raver: this isn't imgur!
• 2874[21:25:09] <raver> Sorry
• 2875[21:25:47] <jelly> just checking you're not a bot
• 2876[21:26:12] <raver> 🙂✌️
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• 2912[21:36:42] <Alio88> can anybody give me the correct syntax to copy a file in the current directory to a d.64 disk image in vices c1541?
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• 2943[21:57:37] <TailsMcPrower419> how do I get an update manager?
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• 2948[22:00:12] <sponix2ipfw> !mint
• 2949[22:00:12] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
• 2950[22:00:24] <sponix2ipfw> !lmde
• 2951[22:00:24] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
• 2952[22:00:36] <sponix2ipfw> TailsMcPrower419: Mint has an "Update Manager"
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• 2954[22:01:44] <TailsMcPrower419> Yes I just have Debian
• 2955[22:01:57] <TailsMcPrower419> I want an update manager like the one they have
• 2956[22:02:04] <TailsMcPrower419> isn't it more a part of the old gnome?
• 2957[22:02:39] <somiaj> TailsMcPrower419: What do you mean by an update manager? A tool to tell you when you have package updates?
• 2958[22:02:46] <TailsMcPrower419> their's always worked while gnome-software says /var/lib/dpkg/lock-frontend is in use cannot download updates
• 2959[22:02:52] <TailsMcPrower419> update the system from a gui
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• 2961[22:03:03] <TailsMcPrower419> instead of sudo sh -c 'apt update && apt dist-upgrade'
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• 2963[22:03:42] <somiaj> synamptic is a gui package manager that can also do updates.
• 2964[22:03:51] <TailsMcPrower419> alright
• 2965[22:04:02] <greycat> synaptic ... no m
• 2966[22:04:11] <somiaj> for the most part you should be doing upgrade not dist-upgrade, but there is a gnome tool that just does upgrades (not a full graphical package manager)
• 2967[22:04:25] <TailsMcPrower419> yeah i want that small gnome tool
• 2968[22:04:36] <jelly> somiaj: what make you say that
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• 2971[22:04:57] <jelly> there's absolutely nothing wrong doing dist-upgrade all the time
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• 2978[22:05:52] <TailsMcPrower419> where can I ask about making those clear egg rolls that aren't cooked and have cucumber and other veggies inside?
• 2979[22:06:00] <TailsMcPrower419> I don't know what they are called
• 2980[22:06:17] <jelly> probably not freenode irc network
• 2981[22:06:24] <TailsMcPrower419> right but it's a quickie
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• 2983[22:06:47] <jelly> you're a quickie
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• 2985[22:07:08] <jelly> /msg alis list *cooking*
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• 2987[22:07:23] <somiaj> TailsMcPrower419: I see gnome-packagekit -- though I thought there was some tool that just did upgrades, can't find it though.
• 2988[22:07:44] <jelly> ,i gnome-packagekit
• 2989[22:07:45] <judd> Package gnome-packagekit (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: Graphical distribution neutral package manager for GNOME. Version: 3.30.0-1; Size: 130.6k; Installed: 622k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 2991[22:07:59] <TailsMcPrower419> I imagine the Linux has little intelligent worms hiding it it from the lack of least privilege
• 2992[22:08:14] <TailsMcPrower419> Linux does support this to a great extent in kernel but nobody will use the suppot
• 2993[22:08:17] <TailsMcPrower419> support
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• 2995[22:08:47] <greycat> *what*
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• 2997[22:09:04] <sponix2ipfw> hmm, and someone needs to go take their meds
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• 3000[22:09:16] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
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• 3002[22:09:18] *** jelly sets mode: +b tailsmcprower419!*@*
• 3003[22:09:19] *** jelly sets mode: +b *!*@cpe-70-123-239-134.satx.res.rr.com
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• 3005[22:09:20] <sponix2ipfw> This is why we can't have nice things
• 3006[22:09:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
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• 3012[22:14:33] <somiaj> jelly: just old habbits mostly.
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• 3023[22:28:17] <jelly> honestly I do not remember the last time I used safe-upgrade / upgrade within a stable release
• 3024[22:28:32] <jelly> if there's patching up to do I want all of it
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• 3050[22:46:35] <bodqhrohro_> How does `apt-cache policy` retrieve the version table and marks the installed version with asterisks? Does APT store the information on what repository is the package installed from, or it just compares the version and may give incorrect results if two repos have exactly same version of a package?
• 3051[22:47:06] <greycat> the lists of what's available are in /var/lib/apt/lists/ and the list of what's installed comes from dpkg
• 3052[22:47:15] <jelly> bodqhrohro_: the latter. What do you mean incorrect results?
• 3053[22:47:59] <bodqhrohro_> jelly: I mean highlighting the wrong repo if two repos contain exactly the installed version.
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• 3055[22:48:16] <greycat> your error, then, is that you have multiple competing/overlapping repositories
• 3056[22:48:21] <greycat> stop doing that
• 3057[22:48:46] <jelly> bodqhrohro_: the tuple (package name, version, architecture) is supposed to be unique on dpkg/apt systems, it should not happen that two different package build have the exact same version
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• 3059[22:49:34] <jelly> apt gets rather confused when that happens and may offer to upgrade to the same version
• 3060[22:49:59] <jelly> (don't ask how I know!)
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• 3063[22:50:42] <bodqhrohro_> So it's generally impossible to know what repository the packages were installed from with APT/DPKG, right?
• 3064[22:50:48] <jelly> yes
• 3065[22:50:59] <jelly> that info is not saved
• 3066[22:50:59] <bodqhrohro_> Okay, thanks.
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• 3070[22:52:35] <jelly> different additional distros deal with this in different ways. Some ask you to use pinning. Some keep unique substrings in version numbers.
• 3071[22:52:43] <jelly> additional repos* sorry
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• 3097[23:08:06] <ratrace> bodqhrohro_: but you can correlate apt lists and dpkg's database of installed ones: replaced-url
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• 3099[23:08:56] <greycat> ... which is what apt-cache policy does for you, yes?
• 3100[23:09:34] <ratrace> yes for individual packages, but teh script at that askubuntu post lists packages per repo
• 3101[23:10:23] <greycat> sounds like a thing an Ubuntu user would want, since those people are the ones who seem to need multiple repositories
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• 3103[23:11:16] <greycat> I already know which repository google-chrome-stable came from, and everything else, well, it came from Debian.
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• 3105[23:11:50] <somiaj> aptitude search has an origin flag which can be used to identify packages not from debian
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• 3107[23:11:57] <ratrace> a forest of PPAs
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• 3114[23:12:42] <greycat> To be clear, the "origin" is *not* where the package came from, because that information is not recorded. It's where the package *could be* obtained from, if you wanted to reinstall it.
• 3115[23:13:10] <ratrace> yes that is more correct.
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• 3132[23:23:09] <DammitJim> do you guys know if there is another utility besides 7-zip that can decompress .exe files in linux?
• 3133[23:23:33] <jelly> depends on what's in the exe files.
• 3134[23:23:34] <DammitJim> Apparently, I'm receiving .exe files that are compressed with a 7-zip application
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• 3137[23:23:51] <DammitJim> the .exe just decompresses the directories and files
• 3138[23:24:03] <jelly> maybe they are just 7zip archives with a tiny .exe selfextract wrapper.
• 3139[23:24:13] <DammitJim> that's what I'm thinking
• 3140[23:24:22] <DammitJim> so, does that mean that only 7 zip can handle them on Linux?
• 3141[23:25:04] <jelly> if it's a 7zip archive inside, other tools that handle 7zip archives might work
• 3142[23:25:42] <jelly> do you have a sample you may share?
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• 3145[23:28:42] <ratrace> uh.... that more sounds like malware.... exe files are never compressed, and if they are somehow, then it's code containing compressed payload
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• 3150[23:29:18] <jelly> ,i upx-ucl
• 3151[23:29:19] <judd> Package upx-ucl (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: efficient live-compressor for executables. Version: 3.95-1; Size: 395.4k; Installed: 2001k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 3153[23:29:50] <jelly> you have not seen many exe files have you
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• 3155[23:31:00] <jelly> here's what a 4KiB exe can do: replaced-url
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• 3160[23:35:27] <bodqhrohro_> ratrace: that script shows no more than synaptic does, perharps even worse, because it doesn't do any version checks at all. So I'll better stick to my slow-but-reliable solution that just calls apt-cache policy for every package.
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