• 0[00:00:22] <fuxxy> with virt-manager, you'll need to create the group 'libvirt' and add your user to that group
• 1[00:00:30] <fuxxy> replaced-url
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• 3[00:00:53] <sudomake> fuxxy, I remember having read something like that wasn't required anymore with wayland
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• 5[00:02:01] <_72y9op> Hellow users !
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• 7[00:02:56] <sponix> I currently have my rig setup to require no passwords because I am lazy
• 8[00:03:17] <sponix> BUT, that took a little research
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• 13[00:04:14] <fuxxy> I'm reading about a method involving PolicyKit, that you can adjust to suit your needs
• 14[00:04:18] <fuxxy> replaced-url
• 15[00:04:18] <sponix> fuxxy: you get that archive extraction figured out yet ?
• 16[00:04:22] <fuxxy> sponix, no
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• 19[00:04:54] <sponix> fuxxy: I'd say treating it similar to a multi file rar pack could work
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• 21[00:05:42] <sponix> fuxxy: Yeah, I have Polkit and sudo both setup to be password-less for my user
• 22[00:05:45] <fuxxy> sponix, IIRC, I compressed the top-level folder. Unsure why the individual files are coming up compressed
• 23[00:06:00] <sudomake> fuxxy, thank you, adding the user solved it
• 24[00:06:35] <sponix> fuxxy: on the rar's you just aim at the head blah.rar for extraction, and it picks up all the file.r01 file.r02 on its own and extracts the whole damn archive
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• 27[00:07:15] <sponix> fuxxy: I would guess the 7z one does similar.. you like p7zip -flag blah.7z and see if the rest unfold
• 28[00:07:31] <fuxxy> hm.
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• 46[00:10:04] <fuxxy> sponix, firstly, they're not rar files, second, I don't have a 'head compressed file'. After the initial EMULATORS.7z is extracted, the subfolders are /all/ filename.7z.001
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• 60[00:14:19] <shiv> Hi all
• 61[00:14:22] <shiv> need help :(
• 62[00:14:29] <shiv> I am following this to the dot
• 63[00:14:30] <shiv> n
• 64[00:14:43] <shiv> replaced-url
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• 66[00:15:04] <shiv> I cannot exec the command at the last step. says apfs-fuse not found
• 67[00:15:15] <shiv> I have doen the clean install from github
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• 69[00:15:19] <shiv> all goes well
• 70[00:15:32] <shiv> I am unable to mount the the apfs partiion
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• 74[00:16:58] <sponix> replaced-url
• 75[00:17:09] <sponix> replaced-url
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• 77[00:17:38] <Exagone313> Hi, I upgraded lxc from 2 to 3 (stretch to buster) and now I get "Failed to set up mount namespacing: Permission denied" errors when some services start inside my lxc container. I disabled apparmor service temporarily (and rebooted) and it's still the same. What else could cause this? lxc container config: replaced-url
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• 79[00:18:14] <sponix> shiv: you should probably be looking for an installing an APFS Fuse package or two.
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• 82[00:18:54] <sponix> fuxxy: that is what Google told me, hope it helps
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• 84[00:19:01] <greatgatsby> shiv, did you cd into the build directory and then do `sudo cp apfs-* /usr/local/bin`? If so, it /usr/local/bin in your path?
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• 88[00:19:52] <fuxxy> sponix, my memory is failing, I *could* have compressed each subfolder separately, then attempted to compress the resulting files into the top folder, but I dont remember
• 89[00:19:53] <Exagone313> if there is a quick way to downgrade to lxc 2 it would be easier also, I got a copy of previous config format
• 90[00:20:16] <Exagone313> (but I think it would make dependency issues)
• 91[00:20:19] <shiv> greatgatsby, let me see
• 92[00:20:22] <greatgatsby> shiv, you can also just cd into the build dir and do ./apfs-fuse from there
• 93[00:20:26] <greatgatsby> as the docs show later
• 94[00:20:30] * greatgatsby is just skimming
• 95[00:20:52] <bacoder> when I close my laptop lid, my computer apparently goes to sleep (which is OK)
• 96[00:22:04] <bacoder> but when I open the lid back up the screen is off
• 97[00:22:34] <bacoder> and there is nothing I can do about it as far as I can see
• 98[00:22:52] <Exagone313> it seems I misunderstood how to disable apparmor, adding apparmor=0 to cmdline
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• 100[00:23:20] <shiv> greatgatsby, I di dthat. I only see apfs-dump in the build directory
• 101[00:23:36] <Exagone313> and it "fixes" the issue, thanks anyway
• 102[00:23:37] <bacoder> can I get some help on that, because it is quite annoying that I need to restart my computer if I happen to forget about it
• 103[00:25:09] <greatgatsby> bacoder, does pressing the power button once quickly do anything? I don't have a laptop, and power-managmement is not my thing, so this is just a guess, sorry.
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• 106[00:25:53] <greatgatsby> shiv, did your builds all succeed?
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• 108[00:26:12] <shiv> greatgatsby, yes
• 109[00:26:19] <shiv> greatgatsby, no issues there
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• 112[00:27:06] <bacoder> greatgatsby: I don't know, but I am pretty sure the machine is 'on' and working and I have keyboard backlight even. I'll try it now, and if I get offline then you know it didn't work....
• 113[00:27:47] <fuxxy> sponix, Apparently that's what I did. After extracting the second-level .7z.001 files, the resulting directory structure is normal
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• 116[00:28:43] <sponix> fuxxy: glad you got it figured out
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• 125[00:30:00] <fuxxy> And for future reference, compressing all these files didnt help me on my backup scheme. I still needed 14 drives, and the space I saved with 7z was ultimately unneeded, as the last drive had plenty of space
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• 128[00:30:40] <sponix> fuxxy: you do you :)
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• 130[00:31:21] <sponix> fuxxy: I recently bumped up to 30TB of storage to help avoid such messes
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• 132[00:31:26] <bacoder> well
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• 134[00:32:04] <bacoder> as you saw , it didn't work - If I press the power button quickly then I put the laptop in a 'sleep' state apparently
• 135[00:32:30] <fuxxy> sponix, put it this way, I could use another DAS shelf. :)
• 136[00:32:41] <bacoder> and if I press the power button quickly once again, I restore it into the 'active' state (I get keyboard backlight and I hear fans and shit)
• 137[00:32:54] <bacoder> however ALLWAYS black screen
• 138[00:32:58] <bacoder> no matter what I do
• 139[00:33:25] <bacoder> so my solution is really pressing the power button for long enouh so I can really poweroff the computer and power it back on again
• 140[00:33:32] <sponix> fuxxy: for some people - like myself ... No amount of storage space will ever be Enough
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• 142[00:33:46] <bacoder> And I am using debian buster
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• 148[00:36:47] <bacoder> replaced-url
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• 170[00:51:13] <urxtnw> I've recently switched to Debian from Ubuntu. I have an issue: I had a windows 7 Virtualbox .vdi file and I just read virtualbox is not secure in Debian and not in the repos. I can't seem to find a way to convert from .vdi to .qcow2 without Virtualbox
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• 172[00:52:04] <sponix> urxtnw: there is a way to convert, think its qemu-tools package giving you that
• 173[00:52:36] <sponix> urxtnw: But, I run vbox on something near Debian, and haven't noticed any problems
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• 176[00:53:52] <bacoder> urxtnw: lol wtf? not secure?
• 177[00:53:58] <bacoder> urxtnw: why would that be?
• 178[00:54:45] <terr__> well this is strange. update-grub and grub-install are not present. apt-get install does not find them. clearly I am doing something wrong
• 179[00:55:24] <urxtnw> sponix, thanks you
• 180[00:55:28] <ratrace> bacoder: urxtnw: replaced-url
• 181[00:55:29] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 182[00:55:40] <ratrace> so it was dropped.
• 183[00:56:07] <urxtnw> ratrace, I was just about to paste that haha
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• 185[00:56:41] <urxtnw> I wanted to say that I did a debian minimal install and it's so snappy even with gnome. It's really awesome
• 186[00:56:52] <sponix> way that reads to me, is vbox doesn't backport patches and bugfixes to old branches long enough to meet Debians terms
• 187[00:56:54] <urxtnw> What themes do you guys use?
• 188[00:57:06] <sponix> so they dropped it
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• 190[00:57:49] <sponix> urxtnw: I Dark Mode everything these days
• 191[00:57:53] <somiaj> basically, but vbox is not alone, there are other software that does this (browsers, think the old iceweasel issue)
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• 193[00:58:35] <bacoder> ratrace: big deal, its outdated, I don't think that is a serious security problem
• 194[00:59:11] <sponix> somiaj: I am far from a Debian "purist" ... I just like to use whatever works best for me, despite what others think etc
• 195[00:59:12] <somiaj> I think debian is playing around with ideas on how to support such software that cannot be offically put into main (browsers were given exception, but they don't want to keep adding exceptions) due to upstream not able to help support a frozen system. fasttrack.debian.net is one idea that may (or may not) become such a method.
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• 199[01:01:06] <terr__> I am very tired, I am going to get some rest. Maybe even a nap. thanks for the help guys and I'll take this on later.
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• 205[01:02:57] <ratrace> bacoder: it's a problem because debian has certain quality and security standards that VBox no longer meets.
• 206[01:03:40] <urxtnw> somiaj, do you happen to know if qemu-tools is able to turn .vdi to .qcow2? I can't seem to find this
• 207[01:04:05] <somiaj> urxtnw: I don't know.
• 208[01:04:31] <bacoder> ratrace: from what I see from that link, they do, but Debian can't keep up with all the updates?
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• 212[01:04:37] <bacoder> correct me if I am wrong
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• 214[01:04:56] <sponix> urxtnw: just google "how to turn vdi into qcow2 with qemu-tools"
• 215[01:05:11] <somiaj> urxtnw: a quick google search found a guide that says 'qemu-img convert -f vdi -O qcow2 foo.vdi bar.qcow2'
• 216[01:05:24] <somiaj> urxtnw: ymmv, so backup of course.
• 217[01:05:31] <sponix> somiaj: I know it was possible, because I've done it before :)
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• 219[01:05:50] <urxtnw> somiaj, thank you
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• 221[01:06:45] <sponix> bacoder: the way it read to me, was just the Debian life cycle, and vbox major version support cycles do not meet up well enough to support vbox in the main repos
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• 223[01:07:14] <ratrace> bacoder: no, it's about keeping old releases with only security fixes, that the upstream no longer guarantees. security problems are fixed in new versions which also come with new (often untested) features and that's thus unacceptable to the maintainers.
• 224[01:07:23] <sponix> Debian is pretty picky about what makes it in these days. And that can be good or bad depending on your view point
• 225[01:08:10] <somiaj> bacoder: it is more orcale's corprate policy forbids the vbox devs to help debian backport patches, and debian doesn't have the manpower (and knowledge of the vbox code) to do this themselves, so they cannot support vbox and had to remove it from stable.
• 226[01:08:41] <somiaj> bacoder: my understanding on this issue is the vbox devs are willing to help (they use to help debian) but oracle's policy is 'only support the current released version'
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• 228[01:09:19] <terr__> update-grub and grub-install are present. I wonder why they weren't found before. I _think_ I should be installing grub into /dev/sdc (in my case) abut /dev/sdc3 is mounted. so catch22?
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• 231[01:09:48] <somiaj> in debian stretch, vbox was provided via backport (since backports don't get offical security support and can have new upstream versions added to it) but in buster they decided this is against debian policy, and are currently working out how to deal with vbox (or in other software in the same boat).
• 232[01:10:13] <somiaj> I kinda hope fasttrack makes some headway and is provided along side backports (at one time backports was just a side project and now it is offical)
• 233[01:10:24] <bacoder> I see , personally I don't mind a lot if vbox security bugs
• 234[01:10:32] <bacoder> a lot with*
• 235[01:10:45] <somiaj> bacoder: upstream vbox repo isn't that bad, you can just get it from there
• 236[01:11:04] <bacoder> I just download a version from their website and stick with it
• 237[01:11:04] <terr__> I did the debootstrap into the target HDD. I can move all this to the boot media.
• 238[01:11:11] <somiaj> bacoder: yea, but since people maybe running servers with vbox, securty support is essential for it to be offically in debian stable.
• 239[01:11:11] <bacoder> works fine for me
• 240[01:11:32] <somiaj> yea, that is my suggestion, is just use the upstream package/repo, it is the best bet at this time.
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• 248[01:16:03] <urxtnw> sponix, I just conveted vdi to qcow2 and windows 7 is giving me blue screen of death :(
• 249[01:16:25] <sponix> urxtnw: isn't that what Windows is supposed to do ?
• 250[01:16:36] <urxtnw> hahahahahah
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• 252[01:17:10] <bacoder> urxtnw: are you sure you don't want to just download some vbox deb package from oracle?
• 253[01:17:22] <bacoder> and just go on with your life?
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• 255[01:18:05] <terr__> well - I"m moving the packages from the target HDD to the boot media - and I'll try again. I think the fog is clearing - this is looking like it makes sense
• 256[01:18:19] <somiaj> or use vbox to do the conversion for you, maybe make vbox convert .vdi to .img?
• 257[01:18:46] <urxtnw> bacoder: this page told me not to do that: replaced-url
• 258[01:18:59] <somiaj> urxtnw: this could be nothing to do with the conversion, but the options you are giving the vm to boot, also note that vbox I think uses different 'virtual hardware' than qemu does (unsure if both use virtrio or not), and windows doesn't like it when its hardware is changed.
• 259[01:19:13] <somiaj> so it could be the issue is not the conversion, but in making sure qemu provides the same hardware vbox did
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• 262[01:19:24] <urxtnw> somiaj, yeah thats the error, it's the hardware
• 263[01:19:32] <somiaj> (windows does not like it when you swap out a mobo for instance)
• 264[01:19:47] <urxtnw> somiaj, good point, definitely
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• 266[01:20:35] <bacoder> urxtnw: well that is general advice, as in general rule of thumb rules, there are particular instances of things however
• 267[01:20:36] <urxtnw> somiaj, I'm better off just installing it again though, than spending hours to trying to fix it
• 268[01:20:53] <bacoder> urxtnw: I can tell you that I have been doing that since forever and it has allways worked out for me
• 269[01:21:17] <urxtnw> brb need to switch spots/internet connection
• 270[01:21:19] <bacoder> urxtnw: for vbox this is an exception as you have already seen, vbox support in debian is basically non-existent
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• 273[01:22:29] <somiaj> (though I think the vbox matainers are trying to find a way to get it back into debian in a way that complies with debian's security/support/frozen stable release policy)
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• 277[01:22:52] <somiaj> but one would have to wait for at least bullseye for that
• 278[01:23:12] <bacoder> damn that page is so lame
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• 280[01:23:49] <bacoder> lol why don't they add as well "Dont eat your own shit, and btw don't shoot yourself in the foot, some would claim it hurts and its kinda bad"
• 281[01:24:21] <somiaj> not sure what 'page' you're talking about, but it feels off topic.
• 282[01:24:32] <bacoder> replaced-url
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• 284[01:25:10] <somiaj> well after you see people often breaking things, to a point it cannot be easily fixed, such a page gets created
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• 286[01:25:45] <annadane> it's pretty easy to break debian if you don't already know certain things
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• 290[01:25:57] <annadane> it's intuitively appealing to mix packages, or add PPA repos, or whatever
• 291[01:25:58] <somiaj> A lot of people use to the windows delimia don't really understand the difference between static linked libaries, and shared libaries.
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• 295[01:26:19] <somiaj> well with windows, you just go find the software you want, download, install, it works.....because of static linked libaries.
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• 300[01:27:13] <bacoder> somiaj: wtf are you even talking about... binaries in windows are very often dynamically linked, but are usually also dropped in install dirs
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• 302[01:27:44] <bacoder> so it just works
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• 304[01:28:18] <somiaj> bacoder: guess I am over simplifying things, but yea, the binaries usually provide the libaries (guess it shouldn't matter if they are static linked or come with the binary)
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• 306[01:28:50] <bacoder> on linux, people tend to re-use libs a lot, but that also comes with a problem that if something is changed on one lib , THE ENTIRE SOFTWARE BASE needs to be compatible with that change as well
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• 309[01:29:01] <bacoder> thats one thing I hate about linux
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• 312[01:29:19] <bacoder> but I was forced into using linux because windows 10 is essentially unuseable
• 313[01:29:21] *** Joins: sbetrium (~sbetrium@replaced-ip)
• 314[01:29:22] <somiaj> its a give take, I like it because software is smaller as a result (less duplication)
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• 316[01:29:52] <bacoder> somiaj: yes and as we know nowadays we need to save disk space for those libs (its very important to save disk space!!!)
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• 318[01:30:29] <somiaj> linux has tried to do this though, AppImage, snap, flatpak, are the ones that come to mind
• 319[01:30:48] <somiaj> bacoder: maybe it isn't needed on a desktop, but embeded systems, and virutal machines, space still matters.
• 320[01:31:02] <jaesreswrkk> I'm dying.
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• 322[01:31:05] <jaesreswrkk> no LXD on Debian
• 323[01:31:07] <jaesreswrkk> oof
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• 326[01:31:32] <jaesreswrkk> I can't wrap my head around docker. It just feels so horrible, systemd-nspawn doesn't look like it will ever be used in enterprise
• 327[01:31:39] <jaesreswrkk> so I don't want to waste my time learning that even though it's neat
• 328[01:33:25] <jaesreswrkk> Well not just that
• 329[01:33:28] <jaesreswrkk> Docker's future looks bad
• 330[01:33:31] *** Quits: allium (~allium@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 331[01:34:19] <jaesreswrkk> IDK
• 332[01:34:21] <jaesreswrkk> any advice?
• 333[01:34:30] <jaesreswrkk> what container system should I work with
• 334[01:34:37] <somiaj> Might depend on what software you are using, and your overall goals.
• 335[01:34:41] <somiaj> What is wrong with LXC?
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• 337[01:34:47] <jaesreswrkk> I like LXC
• 338[01:34:53] <jaesreswrkk> It's just not as nice to work with as LXD
• 339[01:34:54] <somiaj> (LXD is just on top of it, could you get what you want from just using LXC)
• 340[01:35:04] <jaesreswrkk> Having a nice hypervisor is nice
• 341[01:35:58] <somiaj> as for docker, I haven't used it (though I need to learn, wonder if running docker inside a vm would work), but if the software you need provides docker images, docker is probably the way to go (I have software I'm intersted in using that only provides docker images so I can't use a vm for it)
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• 343[01:36:16] <jaesreswrkk> oh god no
• 344[01:36:18] <JackFrost> jaesreswrkk: To be fair, the only lxd on Ubuntu is a snap, which could also be installed in Debian.
• 345[01:36:34] <jaesreswrkk> somiaj I'm just setting up samba manually
• 346[01:36:52] <jaesreswrkk> I want to containerize samba so I can have my NAS more like a pluggable service
• 347[01:36:57] <jaesreswrkk> Same with a few game servers and apache
• 348[01:37:03] <jaesreswrkk> Kinda like chroots, but good
• 349[01:37:17] <somiaj> And you would rather have a container like LXC as opposed to a full vm?
• 350[01:37:21] <jaesreswrkk> yea
• 351[01:37:35] <jaesreswrkk> The isolation of a VM is nice but the overhead is not
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• 354[01:40:40] <jaesreswrkk> JakeSays aaah
• 355[01:40:42] <jaesreswrkk> I'm tryna avoid snaps
• 356[01:41:07] <jaesreswrkk> I was thinking of just using systemd-nspawn
• 357[01:41:16] <jaesreswrkk> but I don't know if anyone uses it in production yet
• 358[01:41:23] <jaesreswrkk> LXC / LXD / Docker are all in enterprise
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• 361[01:43:08] <JackFrost> lxc is actually useful for autopkgtests. But anyway, you wouldn't be able to install lxd in Ubuntu without using a snap either, soo...
• 362[01:43:19] <jaesreswrkk> Sad
• 363[01:43:24] <jaesreswrkk> But what should I learn
• 364[01:43:37] <jaesreswrkk> systemd-nspawn is so new IDK where it's used
• 365[01:44:03] <jaesreswrkk> LXC/LXD has the 100k ton elephant behind it (Canonical) so it's not going anywhere anytime soon
• 366[01:44:15] <cast4d> is there any source where i can read about why linux-image-grsec was discontinued on buster? replaced-url
• 367[01:44:16] <jaesreswrkk> Docker has Google to rescue them from themselves
• 368[01:44:29] <jaesreswrkk> cast4d TL;DR Licensing
• 369[01:44:50] <jaesreswrkk> Debian isn't allowed to share the kernel source with gresecurity applied. That doesn't fly with a RYF distro
• 370[01:45:15] <cast4d> thank you !
• 371[01:45:28] <jaesreswrkk> np. You're better off with things like SeLinux anyways
• 372[01:45:43] *** Joins: r1nt3c (~r1nt3c@replaced-ip)
• 373[01:45:45] <jaesreswrkk> SeLinux has the NSA behind it, so you know it's constantly updated and exploits patched fast
• 374[01:45:57] <JackFrost> cast4d: See also: replaced-url
• 375[01:45:58] <jaesreswrkk> GrSecurity has dev's that post 0days for other security measures on twitter like candy
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• 377[01:46:30] <JackFrost> jaesreswrkk: I believe Debian is leaning more towards apparmor, though.
• 378[01:46:42] <jaesreswrkk> It is and isn't
• 379[01:46:47] <jaesreswrkk> it's a bit complex
• 380[01:47:02] <jaesreswrkk> also JackFrost, jasperarcola this is from the GrSecurity page, prepare to laugh
• 381[01:47:03] <jaesreswrkk> "Unfortunately, in contrast to Microsoft's post-Windows XP Trustworthy Computing initiative which drastically changed its security trajectory, the Linux community at large has failed to invest adequately in security over the past two decades. Partially due to this, there is no direct alternative to grsecurity or even any option that provides a
• 382[01:47:04] <jaesreswrkk> substantial fraction of grsecurity's features or overall benefits."
• 383[01:47:14] <jaesreswrkk> >the Linux community at large has failed to invest adequately in security over the past two decades
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• 385[01:47:26] <jaesreswrkk> what is SeLinux. What is AppArmour, What is the kernel hardening project
• 386[01:47:31] *** Quits: __imp__ (~imp@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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• 388[01:47:52] <jaesreswrkk> What are cgroups?
• 389[01:48:12] *** Joins: yue-lan (~lanyue@replaced-ip)
• 390[01:48:49] <jaesreswrkk> Overly simplified, strong restrictions that are implemented by the kernel that you can request on a process
• 391[01:48:55] <jaesreswrkk> so you can disable a lot of things
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• 397[01:50:38] <cast4d> "Today we are handing over future maintenance of grsecurity test patches to the community." this also doesn't make any sense, what exactly they handed to the community?
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• 400[01:53:35] <cast4d> oh basically they meant they handed over the all old stuff that was publicly released to the community
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• 420[02:07:14] <jaesreswrkk> :v
• 421[02:07:21] <jaesreswrkk> JackFrost
• 422[02:07:36] <jaesreswrkk> I'm thinking of going simpler and just using chrooted systemd services
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• 426[02:09:48] <jaesreswrkk> replaced-url
• 427[02:11:23] <sponix> simple and systemd in the same sentence ? hmm
• 428[02:11:37] <jaesreswrkk> sponix what about it?
• 429[02:11:46] <jaesreswrkk> systemd simplifies system administration massively
• 430[02:12:00] <sponix> sure sure
• 431[02:12:18] <jaesreswrkk> It's also easier to use nspawn than it is to use docker / lxc
• 432[02:12:18] *** Quits: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 433[02:12:42] <sponix> probably does for a lot of situations...
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• 437[02:13:15] <sponix> BSD or SysV Init has always done just fine for me
• 438[02:13:30] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 439[02:13:32] <jaesreswrkk> sponix did you have alerts for when the word systemd is said?
• 440[02:13:45] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 441[02:13:54] <sponix> ha
• 442[02:14:08] <jaesreswrkk> You keep making subtle remarks about systemd implying you hate systemd
• 443[02:14:18] <jaesreswrkk> this is #debian not #devuan
• 444[02:14:24] <sponix> nope, I'm just always just lurking
• 445[02:14:46] <jaesreswrkk> hm
• 446[02:15:21] <bacoder> jaesreswrkk: you and your funky secs, linux is a free operating system, security shouldn't even be considered
• 447[02:15:39] *** Quits: areisp (~ars@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 448[02:15:52] <bacoder> freedom is the number one priority, the rest is pretty much "meh"
• 449[02:15:53] <sponix> bacoder: who, what ?
• 450[02:16:03] *** Quits: Rick_Mac82 (~mint@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 452[02:16:08] <bacoder> xD
• 453[02:16:51] *** Joins: CaCO3 (~CaCO3@replaced-ip)
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• 455[02:16:56] <jaesreswrkk> lmao
• 456[02:16:59] *** Parts: ryouma (~user@replaced-ip) ("Killed buffer")
• 457[02:17:00] <jaesreswrkk> bacoder hey, systemd bad.
• 458[02:17:15] <jaesreswrkk> Linux != Unix but it should follow muh unix philosiphy!
• 459[02:17:18] <jaesreswrkk> >.>
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• 462[02:17:46] <JackFrost> jaesreswrkk: That's not helping.
• 463[02:17:58] * jaesreswrkk shrugs
• 464[02:18:27] *** Joins: Rick_Mac82 (~mint@replaced-ip)
• 465[02:19:02] <jaesreswrkk> Hey, I'm not the one who has an alert setup for the word systemd to come make snarky remarks under the guise that I'm not trying to instigate while going on about sysv
• 466[02:19:08] <jaesreswrkk> Just saying JackFrost
• 467[02:19:15] <bacoder> look : the best security you can have is not to open "free penis enlargement pills" emails and not running get_pills.pdf.sh
• 468[02:19:37] <bacoder> (as root)
• 469[02:20:11] *** Joins: peterrooney (~peter@replaced-ip)
• 470[02:20:19] <JackFrost> jaesreswrkk: 'just saying' is a poor excuse, and you're putting words in others mouths. Perhaps you could just accept that others won't like systemd, even if they do use it? Maybe we can just move on without mocking others? :)
• 471[02:20:24] *** Joins: areisp (~ars@replaced-ip)
• 472[02:20:25] <jaesreswrkk> bacoder or just drop uneeded privileges
• 473[02:20:39] *** Joins: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip)
• 474[02:20:46] <jaesreswrkk> JackFrost Hey, don't join a systemd based distro's channel to push sysv
• 475[02:21:00] <jaesreswrkk> or wait until systemd is mentioned to go on how "well systemd is nice but sysv
• 476[02:21:02] <jaesreswrkk> "
• 477[02:21:40] <jaesreswrkk> eh
• 478[02:21:50] <sponix> hmm
• 479[02:21:59] <sponix> odd, don't recall it going that way
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• 482[02:22:35] <sponix> I just said that systemd and the world "simple" in the same sentence was odd IMHO
• 483[02:23:10] <jaesreswrkk> sponix you know exactly what your goal was
• 484[02:23:19] <sponix> and maybe that is just me perspective of it being new and different. But to me anyway, it seems a LOT more complex than the old BSD and SysV init did
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• 486[02:23:34] <jaesreswrkk> Have you tried working with it or did you just look at it?
• 487[02:23:42] <jaesreswrkk> I used to hate systemd.
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• 489[02:24:02] <sponix> And I didn't see a problem with either. So it is kinda like a solution for a problem that didn't really exist -- to me :)
• 490[02:24:35] <sponix> guess he needs to dial in again
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• 493[02:25:38] <bacoder> but seriously though windows 10 is a piece of shit, right?
• 494[02:25:39] <jaesreswrkk> oof my connection
• 495[02:25:53] <jaesreswrkk> I'm back
• 496[02:25:58] <sponix> thanks for the warning
• 497[02:26:05] <jaesreswrkk> bacoder I used to look at systemd with a sysv mindset
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• 499[02:26:18] <jaesreswrkk> I hated it. A giant complex beast
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• 501[02:26:31] <jaesreswrkk> Then I dropped my sysv mindset and read some of the documents to get started with systemd when debian made the full switch
• 502[02:26:45] <bacoder> oh?
• 503[02:26:51] <jaesreswrkk> I started to learn about features like dropping privileges and how easy it was to drop them in systemd service files
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• 506[02:27:18] <jaesreswrkk> And how standardized the files where. I can almost guarantee the files I wrote for my debian box will work if I switch to fedora and vice versa
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• 508[02:27:31] <jaesreswrkk> systemd started to get some cool friends like journald
• 509[02:27:56] <sponix> and resolvd lol
• 510[02:27:59] <jaesreswrkk> Journald would let you vacuum up all your logs and store them with rsyslogd even if your software didn't like rsyslogd
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• 512[02:28:17] <sponix> cause everyone needs their init to resolve dns
• 513[02:28:17] <jaesreswrkk> But if you didn't like this, you could just tell systemd in your .service files, please don't vacuum my logs
• 514[02:28:28] <jaesreswrkk> sponix that doesn't run in PID 1
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• 516[02:29:03] <jaesreswrkk> It's also not mandatory
• 517[02:29:27] <jaesreswrkk> bacoder But again with systemd things got really simple
• 518[02:29:45] <jaesreswrkk> journald would let me get to my logs without finding them on the disk, it would let me follow them
• 519[02:29:58] <jaesreswrkk> systemd let me easily start and stop services and I could request this over dbus
• 520[02:30:06] <jaesreswrkk> No more invoking bash
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• 522[02:30:17] <jaesreswrkk> When people look at systemd they see a big scary beast
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• 524[02:30:28] <jaesreswrkk> but once you break it down into it's many components, systemd is actually quite simple
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• 526[02:31:28] <jaesreswrkk> journald is an amazing thing that gets a lot of hate
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• 528[02:31:41] <jaesreswrkk> people scream 'WHAT IF MY MACHINE SHUTS DOWN AND THE BINARY FILES GET DESTROYED!"
• 529[02:31:49] <jaesreswrkk> Same issue with text files, they can get corrupted too
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• 531[02:32:02] <jaesreswrkk> journald is meant to be a broker for your logs
• 532[02:32:04] <jaesreswrkk> not your logging daemon
• 533[02:32:34] <JackFrost> jaesreswrkk: Reminder: This is the Debian support channel, it's a channel for support question regarding Debian. If you don't have a Debian support question, there's #debian-offtopic where you are free to continue.
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• 535[02:33:34] <jaesreswrkk> bacoder sponix if you want to hear more about why not to fear but embrace systemd
• 536[02:33:38] <jaesreswrkk> join me in #debian-offtopic
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• 543[02:36:35] <urxtnw> what can I use for creating a USB drive in Debian?
• 544[02:37:23] <urxtnw> besides using dd, I was looking for something with a GUI
• 545[02:37:42] <sponix> urxtnw: get the tool from etcher.io website, makes in nice and fancy
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• 549[02:39:50] <urxtnw> sponix, thanks! anything in the repos?
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• 551[02:40:20] <sponix> urxtnw: I'm sure there is, but not that I know off the top of me head like that
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• 556[02:41:59] <urxtnw> sponix, btw with the virtualbox thing, I think I have to convert to .raw first before i use qemu
• 557[02:42:12] <urxtnw> sponix, I will try it and see if windows 7 still goes blue screen
• 558[02:42:37] <sponix> urxtnw: good luck ... I'd just dump Win 7 in the bin and call it a day personally
• 559[02:42:43] <sponix> but whatever does it for ya
• 560[02:43:22] <JackFrost> That might be the recommended course of action soon though, since it's soon to be unsupported.
• 561[02:43:47] <sponix> JackFrost: EOL for 7 already happened 14 Jan 2020
• 562[02:44:36] <JackFrost> Oh. Right, thanks.
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• 570[02:49:39] <urxtnw> sponix, I need to use photoshop/lightroom sometimes so that's why I use the VM
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• 575[02:50:42] <JackFrost> urxtnw: If that works for you then there's no problem, but have you looked those up on Wine's DB?
• 576[02:50:44] <sponix> urxtnw: umm, download your free Windows 10 ISO from Microsoft, and use that ?
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• 579[02:51:12] <sponix> JackFrost: hmm, not a bad idea
• 580[02:52:20] <urxtnw> JackFrost, doesn't wine open up vulnerabilities in your system?
• 581[02:52:49] <abrotman> because what?
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• 584[02:53:22] <JackFrost> I believe the logic goes that one could then run windows viruses.
• 585[02:54:19] <JackFrost> Ticho: I am sorry for the ping on your join, but I've always wanted to ask what the third flower's color was, to know if I should be worried? :)
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• 589[02:56:18] <abrotman> that malware would hopefully not be running as root, and be limited to what your own user can destroy
• 590[02:56:24] <abrotman> if that's even a thing ...
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• 592[02:57:27] <urxtnw> you're running executables that can see your files if you're using the program in your distro with your files
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• 601[03:03:54] <abrotman> urxtnw: FWIW, you run a browser too ..
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• 608[03:04:58] <thenori> hey everyone o/ I want to run Docker on Debian, but I'm running sid. Y'all think I can just set the repository for buster?
• 609[03:05:22] <sponix> thenori: Sid doesn't have Docker ?
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• 612[03:05:30] <sponix> ,v docker
• 613[03:05:31] <judd> Package: docker on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5-1; stretch: 1.5-1+b1; bullseye: 1.5-2; buster: 1.5-2; sid: 1.5-2
• 614[03:05:38] <sponix> ,v docker.io
• 615[03:05:39] <judd> Package: docker.io on amd64 -- buster: 18.09.1+dfsg1-7.1+deb10u1; buster-security: 18.09.1+dfsg1-7.1+deb10u1; bullseye: 19.03.5+dfsg1-2; sid: 19.03.5+dfsg1-2
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• 617[03:05:57] <thenori> Index of download.docker.com/linux/debian/dists says buster, jessie, stretch, & wheezy
• 618[03:06:21] <sponix> thenori: lol .. check your package manager bro.. seems like Sid already had docker
• 619[03:06:34] <sponix> "has Docker"
• 620[03:06:45] <thenori> I found it in the package manager, it's 'docker' and not 'docker-ce'
• 621[03:07:13] <sponix> could check "docker.io" also -- at times it is called that
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• 623[03:07:19] <thenori> The site said the difference was relevant idk
• 624[03:07:24] <sponix> that is why I dropped the version thing on both
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• 629[03:08:36] <thenori> So I can just remove the docker repository and run docker or docker.io
• 630[03:08:41] <thenori> What's the difference?
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• 633[03:10:30] <thorie2> docker - System tray for KDE3/GNOME2 docklet applications
• 634[03:10:31] <thenori> just started learning docker, so with step 1 being remove all packages and step 2 being install a package with a different name I uninstalled the package I got off default repo
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• 640[03:12:43] <thenori> looks like they're just certified vs debian maintained version of the same stuff
• 641[03:12:47] <thenori> sounds good to me
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• 681[03:45:09] <duude__> Hello people
• 682[03:45:37] <duude__> I'd check this myself, but I don't have a debian install nearby, could someone please run a quick file -h /bin/sh for me? Does it point to bash or dash?
• 683[03:46:05] <sponix> duude__: wait one
• 684[03:46:17] <duude__> sponix: gotcha, thank you a lot
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• 686[03:46:32] <sponix> duude__: dash
• 687[03:46:38] <duude__> oh great!
• 688[03:46:40] <duude__> Thank you so much :)
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• 691[03:50:25] <abrotman> duude__: depends on the system
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• 714[04:06:03] <fuxxy> Anyone running Debian on an ESXi VM - ESXI allows you to place the VM swap space on a different dataset. How would I specify that swapspace in debian?
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• 798[05:15:32] <Wulf> fuxxy: hello. What does "lsblk" output?
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• 814[05:34:12] <afidegnum> hello, how do i get php 7.0 for debian 10?
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• 817[05:39:32] <Wulf> afidegnum: really 7.0, not 7.3?
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• 819[05:40:22] <afidegnum> i'm having a compatibility issue with my scripts
• 820[05:40:47] <Wulf> afidegnum: fix the scripts or run them in a docker container
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• 822[05:41:16] <Wulf> afidegnum: you could of course try to install the stretch packages or recompiling them for buster. But that's always an ugly solution which is likely to break.
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• 847[06:11:48] <fuxxy> Wulf, replaced-url
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• 905[07:00:18] <Wulf> fuxxy: so there's only one disk. I really wonder how it should work.
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• 907[07:00:49] <Wulf> fuxxy: I assumed that you had created two separate disks
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• 932[07:23:06] <pragomer> how can I create a tar file that preserves all mac-timestaps even when I extract it again? I tried: tar --atime-preserve -czf myarchive.tar.gz /myfoldertoarchive
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• 934[07:23:34] <pragomer> but when I extract the file in the folder gets atime and ctime of the extraction
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• 943[07:30:04] <RonWhoCares> Is it possible to install python 2.7 and 3.5 on the same system?
• 944[07:30:17] <Wulf> RonWhoCares: yes.
• 945[07:30:30] <RonWhoCares> I already have 3.5 installed. How do I get 2.7 to install?
• 946[07:30:38] <dudz> use your package manager
• 947[07:30:44] <dudz> apt search python
• 948[07:30:47] <Wulf> RonWhoCares: why? it's obsolete. But try apt install python
• 949[07:31:22] <RonWhoCares> I need to run a command that is limited to work with it
• 950[07:31:24] <dudz> apt update;apt search;apt install
• 951[07:31:38] <Wulf> I just removed python2 from my system. Thanks debian devs for making this possible!
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• 955[07:32:49] <dudz> i don't look to see if python is installed or not
• 956[07:32:54] <dudz> i'm sure it is though
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• 958[07:34:56] <dudz> yep i got the entire lot of it
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• 961[07:35:29] <dudz> python2, python2.7, python3, python3.7
• 962[07:35:38] <dudz> python 3.5
• 963[07:35:46] <jm_> pragomer: --atime-preserve is an option for extraction, not for creation of the archive
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• 965[07:36:57] <ayew> Wulf: I pretty much installed python2 and python3 by default on my system, theres so much stuff still using python2
• 966[07:37:06] <ayew> install*
• 967[07:38:15] <dudz> python2-gtk
• 968[07:38:25] <dudz> heaps of other python- packages on my system
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• 970[07:39:10] <dudz> i dont even install them but things i install have them as dependencies
• 971[07:39:32] <jm_> in buster ptyhon gives you 2.7 and you can install python3.2 or 3.5 alongside
• 972[07:39:49] <dudz> i'm on testing atm, that must be why i have 3.7
• 973[07:40:41] <Wulf> ayew: really? Like what?
• 974[07:40:54] <ayew> hmm, its more on my server computer that its needed
• 975[07:41:04] <ayew> which is where I run debian anyway...
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• 978[07:41:44] <ayew> I can't remember explicitly, but I remember some big software using 2.7. I think calibre only switch to 3.x recently for example.
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• 999[08:04:54] <pragomer> jm_: Ok ok... for extraction... so I will try this now. Thank you..
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• 1032[08:21:24] <mindlessmiss> greetings; I have just spent a considerable amount of time browsing through a catergory in Synaptic - found plenty of interesting sounding software and marked a lot of them for installation. When I finally clcik APPLY I get these errors: E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
• 1033[08:21:24] <mindlessmiss> E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.
• 1034[08:21:37] <mindlessmiss> E: Unable to correct dependencies
• 1035[08:21:38] <mindlessmiss> E: Unable to lock the download directory
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• 1038[08:22:59] <mindlessmiss> I don't want the damn thing to "forget" all the packages I have selected
• 1039[08:23:38] <stew> mindlessmiss: the normal solution to "held or broken" is to run something like "apt -f install" or "apt-get -f install" (for --fix-missing)
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• 1041[08:24:10] <mindlessmiss> any suggestions how to solve without having to start over - its was a lot of smaller packages mostly totally 700mb or so
• 1042[08:24:54] <mindlessmiss> stew thanks, I assume Synaptic will probably lose track of what I currently have selected?
• 1043[08:24:59] <stew> personally I like aptitide for solving these kind of dependency problems, its much more flexible, but understanding how to navigate that is, uh, nuanced
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• 1045[08:25:10] <stew> mindlessmiss: it shoudn't lose track, no
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• 1047[08:25:59] <stew> mindlessmiss: and you should be able to check this. if you run "dpkg -l packagename" for one of the packages you should see that the second column is different fro the first column, indicating a disparity between the current and desired state
• 1048[08:26:15] <stew> (I've not worked with synaptic much, but this is what I suspect)
• 1049[08:26:28] <stew> abrotman: wha gwan?
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• 1052[08:27:20] <mindlessmiss> thanks stew.. fingers crossed lol
• 1053[08:27:52] <stew> check it? show us what you see for some "dpkg -l packagename"?
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• 1055[08:28:51] <mindlessmiss> dpkg -l png2html
• 1056[08:28:52] <dpkg> No packages found matching png2html
• 1057[08:28:52] <mindlessmiss> dpkg-query: no packages found matching png2html
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• 1063[08:33:24] <stew> judd: versions png2html
• 1064[08:33:25] <judd> Package: png2html on amd64 -- jessie: 1.1-5+b1; stretch: 1.1-6; bullseye: 1.1-7; buster: 1.1-7; sid: 1.1-7
• 1065[08:33:28] <stew> OMG
• 1066[08:33:43] <stew> judd: I am your father. I'm so happy you are still alive
• 1067[08:33:44] <judd> No package named 'am' was found in buster/amd64.
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• 1069[08:33:57] <stew> i'm seriously chuffed that judd still exists, who is running that?
• 1070[08:34:07] <stew> I own whoever some brown water
• 1071[08:34:44] <mindlessmiss> seems to be working now, thanks
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• 1073[08:34:54] <stew> mindlessmiss: if dpkg -l doesn't know what it is that synaptic hasn't yet told the rest of the debian package manager things about your desires
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• 1075[08:35:07] <stew> but ok. happy its working!
• 1076[08:35:17] <mindlessmiss> thank you =)
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• 1078[08:35:57] <stew> !qotd
• 1079[08:35:57] <dpkg> Quote of the Day. Ask me about <qotd0> to get a random one. See <literal qotd0> for which numbers are used already and <qotdx> for which numbers have been voted as "replaceable". At 300 (2018-03-30).
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• 1081[08:36:03] <stew> !qotd0
• 1082[08:36:04] <dpkg> <{Fatalfury}> hi, do u know a way to limit the /proc directory size? now it's over 500MB and i have a very little hd
• 1083[08:36:30] <mindlessmiss> lol
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• 1087[08:37:31] <cuco> hi all, I am running irssi right now, and looking for other alternatives. What do you recommend?
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• 1089[08:38:27] <jm_> maybe weechat
• 1090[08:39:26] <cuco> @jsm_: nice, will look into it. irsse works, but feel so.. "90"... perl extensions?
• 1091[08:39:57] <BazookaTooth> weechat is an updated spin of irrsi
• 1092[08:39:58] <jm_> heh if it was for me having perl would be a major plus
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• 1094[08:41:03] <stew> irssi, yes
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• 1096[08:41:19] <jm_> irssi also supports python, tcl, lua and javascripts
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• 1099[08:41:58] <jm_> ahh maybe debian's build doesn't?
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• 1102[08:43:54] <stew> and those other ones don't have a $[ variable, so they are less programmer friendly than perl
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• 1200[09:39:09] <quarterback_> Graphics problem seems to have gone. All windows are fast in Gnome with debian 64 version compared to i386.
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• 1202[09:39:20] <quarterback_> Video card is also detected correctly.
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• 1206[09:41:12] <quarterback_> is schedutil CPU governor better than ondemand if I don't require lot of CPU performance and for saving energy?
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• 1215[09:45:02] <OS-11111> helo
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• 1248[10:01:04] <Hawkao> FA♂Q
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• 1273[10:13:43] <b1ack0p> hi
• 1274[10:14:00] <b1ack0p> when i ran update&upgrade command i faced some warnings : replaced-url
• 1275[10:14:07] <b1ack0p> what are they about and what can i do?
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• 1280[10:15:54] <towo^work> b1ack0p, if you have intel graphics, install firmware-misc-nonfree, if not, ignore them
• 1281[10:16:06] <b1ack0p> i have intel
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• 1283[10:16:39] <towo^work> more precise, if you have intel graphics >= skylake
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• 1293[10:19:57] <b1ack0p> this is my dmesg : replaced-url
• 1294[10:20:00] <b1ack0p> there are some errors
• 1295[10:20:05] <b1ack0p> how can i fix them?
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• 1298[10:20:24] <b1ack0p> [ 551.385645] xfdesktop[5795]: segfault at 1c ip 00007f25ec4639ea sp 00007ffec8479670 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5800.3[7f25ec413000+7e000]
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• 1300[10:20:45] <ZAJDAN> hi...what type of error will return rsync when remote side has no space on disk?
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• 1302[10:20:52] <b1ack0p> [ 327.956495] xfdesktop[5438]: segfault at 1c ip 00007f57188709ea sp 00007ffd101e5880 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5800.3[7f5718820000+7e000]
• 1303[10:20:55] <ZAJDAN> Error in file I/O ?
• 1304[10:21:06] <b1ack0p> [ 310.955846] xfdesktop[1267]: segfault at 1d ip 00007f86a5f1f9ea sp 00007ffd228034e0 error 4 in libglib-2.0.so.0.5800.3[7f86a5ecf000+7e000]
• 1305[10:21:33] *** Quits: r2rien (~me@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1306[10:22:13] <jm_> b1ack0p: that's an application crash
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• 1310[10:23:04] <b1ack0p> these are the errors in dmesg : replaced-url
• 1311[10:23:16] <b1ack0p> jm_: how can i find out which app error is that?
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• 1315[10:25:13] <jm_> ZAJDAN: «rsync: write failed on "...": No space left on device (28)» for me
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• 1317[10:25:38] <ZAJDAN> jm_ thank for the info
• 1318[10:25:47] <jm_> b1ack0p: it tells you, xfdesktop (twice, with different PID)
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• 1320[10:26:14] <ZAJDAN> jm_ such code number is not here int the list
• 1321[10:26:19] <b1ack0p> actually 3 times with different pid
• 1322[10:26:23] <jm_> ZAJDAN: what list?
• 1323[10:26:31] <jm_> yeah missed that first one
• 1324[10:26:33] <ZAJDAN> replaced-url
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• 1326[10:26:48] <jm_> you mean 28?
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• 1328[10:27:16] <jm_> those are rsync exit codes, the 28 is errno -- try «errno 28»
• 1329[10:27:32] <ZAJDAN> jm_ yes the 28
• 1330[10:27:49] <b1ack0p> but how can i know which app is that?
• 1331[10:28:02] <b1ack0p> all 3 same app ?
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• 1333[10:28:47] <jm_> uhm, xfdesktop binary, from the xfdesktop4 package
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• 1336[10:30:25] <b1ack0p> maybe it is temporary error
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• 1338[10:30:58] <jm_> found a few crash related bug reports for that package, but with different characteristics
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• 1340[10:32:04] <b1ack0p> ok
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• 1346[10:33:33] <jm_> so if you don't know how to debug that further try submitting a bug report
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• 1351[10:37:24] <PaddyF> i think i submitted 5 bug reports in the whole time of using debian. and 3 of them got not feedback at all
• 1352[10:37:46] <tarzeau> PaddyF: your submitter email address?
• 1353[10:38:29] <PaddyF> not sure, 4 of those 5 reports are years old. why would you need my address?
• 1354[10:38:49] <PaddyF> i could try to find out
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• 1359[10:40:10] <tarzeau> PaddyF: to look and maybe answer?
• 1360[10:40:17] <tarzeau> PaddyF: mine are 20 years old :) so what?
• 1361[10:40:19] <PaddyF> cool
• 1362[10:40:23] <PaddyF> :D
• 1363[10:40:31] <ZAJDAN> jm_ do you know how to catch the rsync errno 28? something like: if [ "$?" -eq "28" ]
• 1364[10:40:53] <PaddyF> tarzeau: the last one was a bit weird, i admit but here we go: replaced-url
• 1365[10:40:55] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1366[10:41:29] <jelly> ZAJDAN: first store $? in a variable, you might want to check for other values in the future
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• 1368[10:41:42] <jm_> ZAJDAN: no, that won't work, 28 is not in $?
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• 1370[10:42:49] <tarzeau> PaddyF: looked at the three open ones, can't help sorry
• 1371[10:43:00] <PaddyF> thanks for checking, tarzeau
• 1372[10:43:56] <jm_> ZAJDAN: I get exit code 11, which matches with your exit codes table from before
• 1373[10:44:06] <PaddyF> when i heard in a talk that quite a few debian developers have hundreds of bug reports to manage for certain packages i was stunned
• 1374[10:44:33] <ZAJDAN> jm_ ok...thank You
• 1375[10:44:48] <b1ack0p> so they need help :p
• 1376[10:44:50] <jelly> I wouldn't be surprised if there were packages with a thousand open bug reports
• 1377[10:44:57] <b1ack0p> that s why i try to be developer :p
• 1378[10:44:57] <PaddyF> b1ack0p: yeah :)
• 1379[10:44:58] <b1ack0p> lol
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• 1381[10:45:26] <PaddyF> b1ack0p: are you a maintainer already?
• 1382[10:45:30] <b1ack0p> wait for me bugs :p
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• 1384[10:45:34] <b1ack0p> PaddyF: no not at all
• 1385[10:45:40] <b1ack0p> i am nothing lol
• 1386[10:45:47] <PaddyF> or everything
• 1387[10:45:56] <b1ack0p> well i am just nothing at the moment :p
• 1388[10:45:58] <b1ack0p> nobody lol
• 1389[10:46:22] <PaddyF> at the moment i try to help by stopping to cause drama
• 1390[10:46:28] <b1ack0p> i am not in CS field :p
• 1391[10:46:37] <b1ack0p> what drama?
• 1392[10:46:49] <PaddyF> no comment :)
• 1393[10:46:52] <tarzeau> jelly: it's not that bad, i got a bts mirror with stats:
• 1394[10:47:11] <PaddyF> b1ack0p: hang on, i come back to the offtopic place
• 1395[10:47:20] <b1ack0p> okkk
• 1396[10:47:22] <tarzeau> jelly: replaced-url
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• 1424[11:04:50] <ZAJDAN> is possible with rsync delete all on remote?
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• 1427[11:06:10] <ratrace> ZAJDAN: in what context? rsync can delete files in destination that are missing in source
• 1428[11:06:25] <ratrace> (see --delete and --delete-excluded flags)
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• 1432[11:07:19] <ZAJDAN> on source I wan to keep 30day(daily backup) and on remote want to keep only last(from today))
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• 1434[11:07:49] <ratrace> ZAJDAN: why aren't you using something like rsnapshot? It's a rsync based tool exactly for that purpose...
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• 1436[11:08:19] <ZAJDAN> retrace: the remote is synology NAS
• 1437[11:08:26] <ratrace> so?
• 1438[11:08:33] <ratrace> if you can rsync, you can use rsnapshot too
• 1439[11:08:43] <ZAJDAN> Iam not sure if such tool have to be also on remote
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• 1441[11:09:03] <ZAJDAN> ok..let say...with pure rsync it is not possible
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• 1444[11:11:23] <jelly> synology has their own ecosystem with packages and updates, you can probably find one of dozen rsync wrappers to install on the NAS
• 1445[11:11:35] <jelly> or something better like restic or borg
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• 1452[11:13:46] <ratrace> ZAJDAN: if you can rsync, you can use rsnapshot too. rsync requires the remote side to have the rsync tool, you otherwise can't use it.
• 1453[11:14:07] <ZAJDAN> ok..thank you gonna look
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• 1506[12:10:39] <PaddyF> is there a game in the archive similar to theme hospital?
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• 1508[12:11:27] <henti> Corsix TH
• 1509[12:11:33] <PaddyF> i wanna use the network of people not a search tool
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• 1511[12:12:10] <PaddyF> in case there is people at all, of course
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• 1514[12:12:44] <petn-randall> PaddyF: You want to use the network of people for what exactly?
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• 1516[12:13:23] <PaddyF> i want to use the network of people to find out of there are any games in the debian archive that are similar to the proprietary game theme hospital
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• 1521[12:16:05] <henti> Has there been any changes to apt sources lately .. my update broke last night with "E: The repository 'replaced-url
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• 1523[12:16:18] <henti> PaddyF: apt-cache search would be quicker :P
• 1524[12:16:45] <PaddyF> ugh
• 1525[12:16:59] <henti> Put still. replaced-url
• 1526[12:17:39] <PaddyF> henti: now i managed to catch it, thanks a bunch
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• 1536[12:32:08] <henti> any ideas why update is breaking ?
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• 1542[12:35:48] <quarterback_> A interesting problem I saw was that my hdd was switching off and on during installation of debian and other distros. The real problem seems to be lack of computer case cooling .When the HDD was taken out of the case and connected to a sata port, linux installed worked fine. When hdd heats up, it switches off and on every few seconds or minutes.
• 1543[12:36:55] <petn-randall> henti: Can you paste the full output of `apt update` to replaced-url
• 1544[12:36:57] <quarterback_> Its a seagate 160 GB hdd
• 1545[12:37:35] <ratrace> quarterback_: sounds like a very old drive. checked its S.M.A.R.T attributes?
• 1546[12:37:47] *** Quits: Plasmoduck (~Plasmoduc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1547[12:38:05] <quarterback_> ratrace, Smart attributes seem fine without any errors. the only error I got was air_flow intake or something.
• 1548[12:38:23] <quarterback_> ratrace, It looks like a old drive with 45000 hours on it.
• 1549[12:38:34] <quarterback_> but I bought it as "new".
• 1550[12:38:40] <ratrace> you were duped
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• 1552[12:38:49] <quarterback_> Seems so.
• 1553[12:39:02] <ratrace> could be so worn out mechanically that it easily overheats.
• 1554[12:39:09] <eypo> OMG, 45k hours... it deserves retirement
• 1555[12:39:34] <quarterback_> How many hours do HDD's last? I'm guessing it can put on another 10000 hours atleast.
• 1556[12:39:41] <ratrace> it's older than Kirk Douglas (in comparative HDD years), and even HE is RIP. (too soon?)
• 1557[12:39:46] <quarterback_> if proper cooling is provided for it.
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• 1559[12:40:24] <eypo> I usually replace HDDs when they reach 25k hours or so
• 1560[12:40:33] <ratrace> why risk it. you can get 10x bigger disks nowadays for realtively little money
• 1561[12:40:57] <quarterback_> eypo, Actually, HDD"s are reliable for first 50000 hours or upto 45000 hours. The actual data is 55 TB writes per year.
• 1562[12:41:13] <eypo> or even get a comparable sized SSD for just a few bucks
• 1563[12:41:20] <ratrace> though this is a seagate, so it's probability for failure is a bit higher
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• 1565[12:41:41] <quarterback_> Seagate < western digital although their marketing hype is high.
• 1566[12:41:54] <ratrace> "just a few bucks" SSDs are probably one of those with faulty firmware. Beware of those. I'd only get well known SSD quality brands.
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• 1568[12:42:23] <quarterback_> How many hours do SSD's last if you write less than 50 TB/ year?
• 1569[12:42:40] <eypo> ratrace, I mean Kingston or WD Blue, not those unknown chinese drives
• 1570[12:42:43] <ratrace> quarterback_: replaced-url
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• 1573[12:43:10] <eypo> or even Crucial bx.
• 1574[12:43:12] <ratrace> eypo: yeah. Kingston, WD, Samsung or Intel (newer ones)
• 1575[12:43:39] <quarterback_> ratrace, It seems that hard drives ( the normal ones) last longer if you write less than 55 TB/year although not at once. They can go more than 3 years.
• 1576[12:43:40] <ratrace> cheap-o SSDs will kick a bucket at 50TB TLBs written
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• 1578[12:44:08] <ratrace> quarterback_: HDD longevity isn't measured with data written
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• 1580[12:44:32] <quarterback_> ratrace, It is with number of terabytes written and hours it is run.
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• 1584[12:45:12] <quarterback_> ratrace, I am not a expert on HDD's. I just read this somewhere.
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• 1587[12:45:50] <ratrace> data written has no (significant) impact on HDDs
• 1588[12:46:18] <ratrace> it _may_ correlate with the head wearing out due to a lot of seeks over time but that would apply to reads as well, not just writes
• 1589[12:47:01] <quarterback_> HDD's are very sensitive to temperature though. If temperature becomes high due to lack of airflow, it may fail even if that is temporary.
• 1590[12:47:08] <quarterback_> Then it will start to work again.
• 1591[12:47:08] <jm_> I wonder if that'll still hold true with new technology drives
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• 1594[12:47:44] <quarterback_> Newer technology seems to solve these problems.
• 1595[12:48:03] <ratrace> what kills drives is: 1) age, so mechanical parts get worn out. 2) imperfections in manufacture where parts lose magnetism related abilities over time so bad sectors start cropping up, 3) age so electronic components get worn out (like condensers primarily)
• 1596[12:48:20] <ratrace> so age is number one drive killer
• 1597[12:48:29] <quarterback_> I sort of agree
• 1598[12:48:51] <ratrace> yes temperature is a factor as well, but due to mechanical forces, so part of 1)
• 1599[12:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1561
• 1600[12:49:33] <eypo> IIRC HDDs wearing is correlated to the load cycle count
• 1601[12:49:34] <ratrace> but I recall reading some papers where temperature wasn't as significant contributor as one would think. as in, yes it made an impact, but little one
• 1602[12:50:05] <eypo> Anyone remember those WD green that parked heads after 5 seconds idle?
• 1603[12:50:06] <Ede|Popede> eypo, what about 79498 them? ;)
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• 1605[12:50:30] <quarterback_> I am in a tropical country where the average temperature is like 27 to 33 C throughout the year. So the weather is a big HDD killer here.
• 1606[12:50:31] <jm_> yeah luckily WD has a tool to disable that
• 1607[12:51:02] <eypo> Ede|Popede, your disk must be enterprise-grade...
• 1608[12:51:09] <quarterback_> If you are in a colder country, your hardware could last longer.
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• 1610[12:51:22] <Ede|Popede> ST380011A, must be from the beginning of the 00 years
• 1611[12:51:30] <Ede|Popede> or maybe even older
• 1612[12:52:37] * eypo is saving for new SSDs. Damn data hoarding...
• 1613[12:54:02] <ratrace> quarterback_: probably not. colder climate means higer differences between power-off and power-on states, which translates to more stress and thus less durability
• 1614[12:54:25] <henti> petn-randall: replaced-url
• 1615[12:55:12] <ratrace> like a good old cold boot from 16°C to 40°C working temperature, every morning. stressy stress gets the kick!
• 1616[12:55:55] <quarterback_> ratrace, I see, but indoors are usually at 18 to 22 C in any home. I lived in colder climates and my room temp was like 68F or about 22 C
• 1617[12:56:12] <korhojoa> i have drives that have over 80k hours. just never power the machines off, or let them cool down, they'll run for a long time
• 1618[12:56:19] <quarterback_> ratrace, Computers function well at 22 to 24C.
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• 1620[12:57:14] <ratrace> that really depends. you can have offices not heated overnight so you come in to nice cool 15C in the morning. Or a workshop/garage that cooled off to balmy 5C. Or a weather station that cooled down to -10C after powerloss....
• 1621[12:57:22] <henti> I've also attemped changing to "deb.debian.org" and "oldstable" with similar results.
• 1622[12:57:22] <korhojoa> what were the limits intel/google discovered with their 'outside air' dc's? just a higher failure rate, but still very close to measurement error or something?
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• 1624[12:57:35] <eypo> henti: edit /etc/apt/sources.list. Replace every occurrence of mirror.ox.ac.uk with ftp.uk.debian.org. Save, run apt update and then apt upgrade
• 1625[12:58:17] <Ede|Popede> korhojoa: said disc runs the system, so nearly no shutdowns
• 1626[12:58:46] <Ede|Popede> but yeah, too many too extreme temperature changes kill even bulbs
• 1627[12:59:35] <quarterback_> ratrace, I have heard of people using 10 year old HDD's too.
• 1628[12:59:44] <henti> eypo: replaced-url
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• 1630[12:59:55] <ratrace> korhojoa: replaced-url
• 1631[13:00:23] <ratrace> quarterback_: well yes, and just as some people live to see 100years, most don't :)
• 1632[13:00:56] <quarterback_> ratrace, Processors may work 30 years or more. I dont know about HDD's. Seems nearly impossible.
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• 1634[13:01:06] <korhojoa> ratrace: yeah google does this in their finnish dc's as well. people work in t-shirts even in the middle of winter
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• 1638[13:01:36] <eypo> henti: are you running behind a proxy?
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• 1640[13:01:43] <ratrace> quarterback_: replaced-url
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• 1642[13:02:37] <henti> eypo: bingo .. thank you .. :)
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• 1645[13:02:54] <eypo> henti: you're welcome
• 1646[13:02:56] <ratrace> korhojoa: that's why EPYC will win the datacenters. lower frequencies means lower power rating, but there's a ton of cores per chip to offset that.
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• 1652[13:04:03] <korhojoa> ratrace: i'm hoping for arm64 and riscv
• 1653[13:04:21] <korhojoa> i just want 256 arm64 cores in one server
• 1654[13:04:50] <ratrace> korhojoa: whatever dethrones Intel, works fine :)
• 1655[13:04:51] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1656[13:05:01] *** Quits: dpkg (~dpkg@replaced-ip) (Quit: buh bye!)
• 1657[13:05:09] <korhojoa> dpkg noooo
• 1658[13:05:10] <ratrace> korhojoa: heard of Cavium ThunderX?
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• 1660[13:05:31] <korhojoa> ratrace: yeah. wanna send me some compute nodes?
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• 1662[13:06:09] <ratrace> korhojoa: you can rent them from packet.com :)
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• 1664[13:08:25] <korhojoa> ratrace: it's just not the same unless i can touch it in my rack
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• 1671[13:10:27] <ratrace> korhojoa: why are you in the aisles touching servers to begin with! o.O
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• 1673[13:10:51] <korhojoa> nobody bothers me in the dc
• 1674[13:11:25] <korhojoa> what happens in the hot aisle stays in the hot aisle?
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• 1678[13:15:20] <ratrace> especially in vegas :)
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• 1860[14:59:25] <jelly> !qotd0
• 1861[14:59:25] <dpkg> <tcsetattr> build-essential contains all of the ... um ... essential stuff. For building.
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• 1865[15:02:57] <Haohmaru> !qotd
• 1866[15:02:57] <dpkg> Quote of the Day. Ask me about <qotd0> to get a random one. See <literal qotd0> for which numbers are used already and <qotdx> for which numbers have been voted as "replaceable". At 300 (2018-03-30).
• 1867[15:03:06] <Haohmaru> !qotd0
• 1868[15:03:06] <dpkg> < runedude> I dont hire any admins. My dad sets up router settings. He has a degree in computers. now shush. Lol. It's not changing, and thats that.
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• 1876[15:07:17] <thenori> hey debiants o/ I have a couple questions
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• 1878[15:07:28] <Haohmaru> debi ants?
• 1879[15:07:37] <thenori> debian + deviants
• 1880[15:07:46] <Haohmaru> uh
• 1881[15:08:06] <thenori> idk anyways how do I deal with link groups and update-alternatives?
• 1882[15:08:30] <thenori> I have firefox-dev installed and I want to use it as my default browser so I can open it with super-w
• 1883[15:08:55] <thenori> I know how to make a symbolic link, but idk how to make link groups
• 1884[15:10:22] <jelly> ,v firefox-dev
• 1885[15:10:23] <judd> No package named 'firefox-dev' was found in amd64.
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• 1892[15:12:31] <thenori> Secondly, is there a way to either list the packages that would be broken as a result of a given upgrade OR a way to list what packages have been manually installed at a specific version?
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• 1894[15:12:54] <thenori> replaced-url
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• 1897[15:13:18] <jelly> thenori: if you take a look inside /var/lib/dpkg/info/firefox-esr.postinst, it seems to use --slave option for update-alternatives
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• 1901[15:16:19] <iateadonut> my hard drive seemed to be failing, so i copied it over to a new one with pv /dev/sda > /dev/sdc. i installed the new hard drive and one partition is not working
• 1902[15:16:20] <thenori> jelly, why is the 'slave' linked to /usr/share/man/man1/firefox-esr.1.gz?
• 1903[15:16:22] <tripkin> thenori: you should be able to simply bind super+w to the command using your keyboard bindings settings in whatever desktop you are using
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• 1905[15:16:58] <thenori> Yeah I guess I could do that, another advantage is that it'd open links from other apps in the browser of my choice
• 1906[15:17:04] <iateadonut> i'm re-copying the one partition with pv /dev/sdc1 > /dev/sda1 - i'm wondering if it's better to use 'dd' or if this is the proper way to do things?
• 1907[15:17:09] <jelly> thenori: so that you can do "man x-replaced-url
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• 1909[15:17:35] <jelly> iateadonut: that's just fine
• 1910[15:17:48] <thenori> I just don't see where --slave is called with the actual firefox binary rather than the man pages
• 1911[15:18:11] <iateadonut> i suppose i could also just mount both partitions and do a 'cp -rp'
• 1912[15:18:18] <thenori> Oh!
• 1913[15:18:37] <thenori> update-alternatives --install -- "If the master symlink specified exists already
• 1914[15:18:37] <thenori> in the alternatives system's records, the information supplied will be added as a new set of alternatives for the group."
• 1915[15:18:41] <iateadonut> jelly, thanks. hopefully this works; otherwise i'll try the 'cp' method. if that doesn't work, it's a mysql partition and i have my db's backed up and will have to redo everything.
• 1916[15:18:51] <iateadonut> reckon there are any options in this that i'm missing?
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• 1918[15:19:06] <jelly> you could have just copied the files
• 1919[15:19:25] <thenori> @iateadonut, if you're looking for a more optimal solution, rsync works better than cp
• 1920[15:19:47] <jelly> iateadonut: and /dev/sdc1 is unmounted during the copying, right?
• 1921[15:20:06] <thenori> @jelly Thanks for the helping me find my way :)
• 1922[15:20:45] <iateadonut> that's right. i'll use rsync instead if it doesn't work.
• 1923[15:20:57] <iateadonut> the two partitions are currently unmounted during the retry of 'pv'
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• 1925[15:22:29] <thenori> Y'all don't think I'd encounter any issues with symlinking the .desktop file instead of the binary, do you?
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• 1927[15:22:37] <iateadonut> yeah, i probably should have just copied the files instead of pv right now. i used 'pv' the first time to keep the partition table and UUID's.
• 1928[15:22:58] <iateadonut> anyway, it says 15 minutes left so if it doesn't work, 'rsync' it is. and if that doesn't work; restore from backup.
• 1929[15:23:02] <thenori> @iateadonut, if the partition isn't working have you tried fsck?
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• 1931[15:23:11] <iateadonut> yes
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• 1933[15:23:42] <iateadonut> that's how i fixed the original drive. i guess ssomething happened with pointers on the new drive.
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• 1936[15:25:54] <iateadonut> this was the mysql error: [ERROR] [FATAL] InnoDB: Tablespace id is 12693 in the data dictionary but in file ./mysql/plugin.ibd it is 12699!
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• 1938[15:26:15] <iateadonut> but i just realized that has nothing to do with the inode and only to do with the files.
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• 1940[15:26:54] <iateadonut> so re-copying won't work, right? i should just purge all this and restore from backup
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• 1942[15:27:52] <thenori> depends how valuable the data is
• 1943[15:28:03] <thenori> Salvage is an option
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• 1951[15:30:46] <thenori> This is what brought me success btw
• 1952[15:31:01] <thenori> "sudo update-alternatives --install /usr/bin/gnome-replaced-url
• 1953[15:31:19] <thenori> firefox-esr's priority was 70 fwiw
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• 1957[15:32:42] <thenori> So, my second question -- How would I go about searching for all packages I've installed with apt manually *and specified the version*?
• 1958[15:33:01] <jelly> "not easily, if at all"
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• 1960[15:34:47] <thenori> Well then, a different approach -- where are terminal input logs stored?
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• 1964[15:36:15] <jelly> thenori: nowhere. I run all my apt installs and upgrades under "script -a upgrade.log.$(date -I). or similar
• 1965[15:36:55] <thenori> Hmm. Could you explain that in more detail? That sounds very useful.
• 1966[15:36:56] <jelly> logging all terminals all the time by default would be a privacy risk
• 1967[15:37:14] <thenori> Well, I can press up and get a whole lot of commands
• 1968[15:37:20] <thenori> So I assume the last day or two is stored somewhere
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• 1971[15:37:54] <zykotick9> thenori: "history" might be what you are looking for?
• 1972[15:38:10] <thenori> I've just found /var/log/apt/history.log
• 1973[15:38:16] <quarterback> I changed CPU frequency scaling governor to schedutil and the cpu clock is at its lowest. The machine is mostly idle with CPU utilization of about 5%
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• 1976[15:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1577
• 1977[15:39:32] <jelly> thenori: your interactive shell keeps some history, that's what you get with the cursor Up key
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• 1981[15:40:15] <thenori> @Jelly I meant could you explain your apt logging script
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• 1988[15:43:56] <jelly> thenori: "script" is a tool that creates a new tty and shell and logs all output to a file.
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• 1993[15:46:59] <thenori> Interesting!
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• 1995[15:47:52] <thenori> btw -- since I have a new install and I'm quite curious how far back this goes -- Does your /var/log/apt/history.log file go back to your installation or is it truncated?
• 1996[15:48:09] <thenori> zgrep 'Commandline: apt' /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/history.log.*.gz
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• 1999[15:51:00] <iateadonut> thenori, jelly, thanks. i figured out that it was a mysql pointer rather than an inode pointer thanks to your rubber ducking. (also i appreciate your input on the rsync/pv stuff)
• 2000[15:51:14] <thenori> :D My pleasure
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• 2002[15:53:35] <iateadonut> upgraded to an SSD so this is exciting. i have 2 hard drive caddies in this laptop.
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• 2008[15:57:22] <mason> iateadonut: I swapped my T420 into running two SSDs with an encrypted ZFS mirror as root. Very fun stuff, having that kind of redundancy in a laptop.
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• 2010[15:58:19] <thenori> yayyyyy that's awesome!
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• 2019[16:03:37] <thenori> So yeah finding what packages I've installed manually at a specific version was actually really easy!
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• 2025[16:06:24] <thenori> zgrep 'Commandline: apt install' /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/history.log.*.g | grep '='
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• 2028[16:08:58] <thenori> That gave me exactly what I needed :) all I had to do was apt-mark hold everything listed and bing bang boom I can go on chasing full-upgrade
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• 2030[16:09:42] <terr__> help me with a command please: there should be a command that shows what partitions are mounted where. This is not in fstab because I am doing manual mounts and I do have notes and besides I can unmount and remount - but I have 11 partitions on 4 drives in this computer and I keep losing track
• 2031[16:09:50] <thenori> lsblk
• 2032[16:10:01] <thenori> @terr__,
• 2033[16:10:16] <terr__> perfect!!!
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• 2035[16:10:56] <terr__> 13 partitions! 13 is my lucky number
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• 2037[16:11:22] <cgi777> I got a .deb file from another group, which I need to install for my python package. I dont want to put it on git. What is the best way to get and install a deb file in a python package installer?
• 2038[16:12:15] <thenori> @cgi777, don't put it in the python package installer lol, just list it as a dependencyt in the README
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• 2040[16:12:41] <terr__> is there a way in a Konsol terminal that I can change the title so I remind myself what that terminal is doing?
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• 2049[16:14:49] <terr__> I know one way... kluge - make a file: not whoami, whereami. then I can always run /whereami
• 2050[16:15:05] <cgi777> I need the installer to work automatically - so README does not work
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• 2052[16:15:21] <terr__> cgi777, I am working on this now
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• 2054[16:16:07] <terr__> I opened a window for us.
• 2055[16:16:11] <terr__> meet me there
• 2056[16:16:25] * terr__ cgi777
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• 2063[16:17:34] <jelly> terr__: hostname command exists, and most shells have a way to put the hostname in the prompt
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• 2068[16:17:53] <jelly> most shells also have a way to set terminal window title
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• 2070[16:18:39] <jelly> in zsh it's %m in PS1 variable
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• 2072[16:18:50] <terr__> jelly only one host. All this stuff is running on one host - I am making a rescue disk. I need to be able to run grub and pick up dangling partitions... run ddrescue etc...
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• 2074[16:20:10] <terr__> I am goign to start ddrescue to copy a windows partition - before I resize it. I want that partition copied over to a BIG backup drive and then I'll boot the machine from the backup and once I KNOW its working - then I'll resize... and do a proper Linux install on the interanl HDD
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• 2077[16:20:55] <terr__> jelly, I know that backup will take time!
• 2078[16:21:16] <terr__> and I have four (4) machines to do.
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• 2081[16:22:58] <ratrace> booting into a backup installation sounds like a bad idea unless you have a backup of the backup.
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• 2083[16:23:27] <terr__> the problem I have is that I'm going to FREEZE the windows machines. they will not even be on the net. Their purpose is to run some CNC apps and as long as they can go it then fine - let them do their jobs. Like I wouldn't even use windows if I could avoid it.
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• 2086[16:24:06] <terr__> so if a drive dies? Just copy a backup over and replace it - like a hot spare.
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• 2093[16:29:18] <twobitsprite> anyone know of a way/tool to record the real memory usage of a program throughout it's execution? i.e, not top(1), but something more like strace but for memory usage, if that makes sense
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• 2098[16:31:46] <thenori> i got lots of results from ?ddg linux memory trace tool
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• 2103[16:33:32] <ayekat> so I just ran a dist-upgrade, and some package upgrades gave a warning - is there a log file that would contain these warnings?
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• 2108[16:34:32] <ayekat> (in particular, GRUB gave a warning about missing the BIOS boot partition, which is indeed troublesome - but I've already done 2 dist-upgrades and reboots of that same machine before, so I'm trying to find out if that warning was already there in the previous upgrades, and is thus not a fatal problem)
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• 2110[16:35:05] <thenori> I know the answer to this one!
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• 2112[16:35:14] <ratrace> ayekat: there isn't. jelly recently gave everyone great idea to run apt opts inside a script(1) shell.
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• 2114[16:35:26] <thenori> No! Those logs would have to be tracked manually for example in a script shell
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• 2116[16:35:48] <ayekat> hmm... so I can't see warning messages from previous dist-upgrades if I didn't run them in script
• 2117[16:35:48] <thenori> There is a logfile with all of your apt commands, just not the output
• 2118[16:35:52] <ratrace> ayekat: in this case, you need a partition of type "bios_grub" to hold the GPT bootloader code
• 2119[16:36:00] <ayekat> thenori: yes, I've discovered that - unfortunately, no output :-|
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• 2121[16:36:16] <ayekat> ratrace: yes, I know that - I'm just wondering how this system could boot in the first place ^^
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• 2124[16:36:51] <ayekat> (wasn't me who set up this system)
• 2125[16:37:00] <ratrace> ayekat: well, if the problem is peristent, re-running `update-grub` should complain again
• 2126[16:37:03] <ayekat> I'm just doing maintenance work on something someone else has set up years ago
• 2127[16:37:16] <ratrace> ayekat: are you within a chroot perhaps?
• 2128[16:37:22] <ayekat> ratrace: no warnings from update-grub
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• 2131[16:37:31] <thenori> Linux can boot without a grub bootloader!
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• 2133[16:38:17] <thenori> As long as it finds a boot block and a boot kernel, it persists.
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• 2138[16:39:17] <ratrace> ayekat: oh maybe it's grub-install that complains about those. You can re-try installing grub to the same device
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• 2141[16:40:09] <ratrace> thenori: perhaps you're talking about EFI and ESP containing the kenel, as "boot block" is not really a term?
• 2142[16:40:23] <ratrace> (and yea, EFI does not require bios_grub partitions, only a FAT32 ESP)
• 2143[16:40:30] <ayekat> ratrace: hmm, let me see how exactly the grub postinst invokes grub-install...
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• 2146[16:43:05] <jelly> thenori: there's is _some_ output in /var/log/apt/term* but I'm not sure how exhaustive it is, and there probably is no output from debconf UIs and similar stuff
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• 2148[16:44:18] <ayekat> alright, so it's grub-pc, and the postinst (which appears to be already slightly pre-hard-coded) leads me to believe that it runs `grub-install --target=i386-pc --no-floppy --grub-setup=/bin/true "$(grub-probe -t drive /boot/grub)"`
• 2149[16:44:41] <ayekat> in my book, there is indeed an issue if the BIOS boot partition is missing
• 2150[16:44:58] <ayekat> yet this machine has already succesfully booted twice now - which is the thing that confuses me most
• 2151[16:45:17] <ratrace> ayekat: via EFI? or isn't GPT at all?
• 2152[16:45:33] <ayekat> fdisk says: `Disklabel type: gpt`
• 2153[16:45:57] <ayekat> ratrace: oh... but something is even weirder: the root partition is located on a partition that has the `EFI system` type
• 2154[16:46:00] <ayekat> O_o
• 2155[16:46:06] <ratrace> thewhatnow........
• 2156[16:46:07] <ayekat> I'm gonna have to complain to someone here
• 2157[16:46:14] <ratrace> root!
• 2158[16:46:25] <ayekat> ("here" as in "in my office")
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• 2160[16:46:57] <ratrace> take the PFY with you and make sure you ridicule well, whomever is responsible.
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• 2164[16:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1584
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• 2181[17:00:37] <shiv> when we resize a partition using Gparted why do we move the arrows from left side and not right side since it looks like the right side is empty on the disk presentation?
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• 2183[17:03:18] <brunosalim> ‏becaouse logic MAKE YOU only able to partiotion the rest of the space
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• 2185[17:04:22] <brunosalim> ‏you must wipe the left side to repartion the lefet side
• 2186[17:05:28] <ws2k3> i added a repo but debian still uses he package from the debian repository? how can i install it from thenewly add repo? can i maby use something like apt-cache search to see which repo offer me which version?
• 2187[17:05:33] <brunosalim> ‏i mean when you wipe the left side , will make the whole thing left
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• 2193[17:07:55] <brunosalim> ‏try apt update
• 2194[17:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1590
• 2195[17:09:03] <brunosalim> ‏then apt install 'what ever'
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• 2199[17:10:09] <ws2k3> brunosalim: it looks like apt it not picking up the repo
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• 2203[17:10:37] <greycat> ws2k3: confirm that with apt-cache policy whateverpkg
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• 2212[17:13:18] <brunosalim> ‏cat /etc/apt/sources* | grep 'the repo you looking for'
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• 2214[17:13:41] <greycat> that won't pick up all of the files
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• 2218[17:13:50] <greycat> there can be some in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ also
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• 2224[17:14:33] <zerocool> this has to be easy... how can i convert UTC datetime into another timezone?
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• 2230[17:15:07] <greycat> like, a log file with some human-readable timestamps at the start of each line?
• 2231[17:15:10] <zerocool> closest i can get changes the hour by +/-n but the date doesn't change
• 2232[17:15:19] *** Joins: EdePopede (~EdePopede@replaced-ip)
• 2233[17:15:35] <zerocool> greycat: yes, for ASA logs
• 2234[17:15:48] <greycat> probably something in perl, python, tcl, etc.
• 2235[17:16:04] *** Quits: cef (~cef@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2236[17:16:10] <zerocool> that's what I'm starting to think, i almost have it with `date` but not quite there
• 2237[17:16:16] <ZAJDAN> replaced-url
• 2238[17:16:18] <greycat> you'd need to read each timestamp string, un-format it into some machine-usable form, then re-format it as a new string in the desired timezone
• 2239[17:16:28] <shiv> brunosalim, does it matter left or right?
• 2240[17:16:39] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2241[17:16:40] <zerocool> right
• 2242[17:16:41] <greycat> you do NOT want to invoke date(1) for every single line of a log file
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• 2244[17:16:58] <greycat> thus, doing this is bash is lunacy
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• 2246[17:17:42] <jelly> I use perl to get human-readable timestamps from unix epoch seconds in a log
• 2247[17:17:48] <zerocool> greycat: its for like 10 - 50 lines at a time
• 2248[17:17:52] <zerocool> it's not the entire log
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• 2251[17:18:22] <greycat> well, clearly you aren't even succeeding with a single line using date(1), so why not throw that away and get out the real tools?
• 2252[17:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1581
• 2253[17:19:05] <greycat> pick whichever *real* language you know best (not sh or bash)¸and use that
• 2254[17:19:09] <jelly> zerocool: if you show a couple dozen lines of actual log, someone might take pity on you
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• 2258[17:20:00] <zerocool> jelly: it's for communicating with outside parties that the issue is not on our end, logs are to demonstrate clean connects/disconnects as seen from the ASA, specific events
• 2259[17:20:20] *** Quits: jordanm (~jordanm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2260[17:20:31] <jelly> no need to explain more, show log
• 2261[17:20:34] <jelly> !paste
• 2262[17:20:35] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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• 2264[17:20:56] <jelly> and... outside parties can be told "timestamps are UTC"
• 2265[17:21:02] <jelly> let THEM deal with it
• 2266[17:21:11] <greycat> yeah, if I were receiving the log file I'd want it unmodified
• 2267[17:21:15] <jelly> ^ this
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• 2269[17:21:40] <zerocool> -_- it's not for showing logs it's for talking about
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• 2272[17:21:52] <zerocool> i can just send them syslog if that's all that was required
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• 2274[17:23:24] <zerocool> the company is saying that the connection is on their end we are potentially losing you know 500k per day because of "connection issues" on our end but everything on our end looks good and I am writing this with the intent to also cc the executives that care about money, i want to explain in a way that is easy for humans to understand and not just shit the logs and be like "not us"
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• 2277[17:24:26] <zerocool> so i thought i can clean this up really quick with a bash script since i'm using a script to query elasticsearch for the relevent logs anyway, i can just tack on the formatting at the end
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• 2281[17:24:30] <lord-carlos> Hi guys. A new version of a packaged landed in buster-backports _today_. I can see it on the package server ( replaced-url
• 2282[17:24:30] <lord-carlos> But apt says I have the newest version. How come? I assume I just have to be patient and I will get it in the next 24h hours?
• 2283[17:24:43] <jelly> zerocool: I'd keep the logs as-is and make a note of the timestamp in the executive summary.
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• 2286[17:25:10] <zerocool> jelly: they will also get an attached log that isn't touched
• 2287[17:25:20] *** Joins: sweep90 (~nix@replaced-ip)
• 2288[17:25:53] <zerocool> nevermind i'll do it in python
• 2289[17:25:55] <jelly> okay. Use your favorite scripting language to parse and munge logs.
• 2290[17:26:02] * jelly nods
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• 2293[17:26:52] <zerocool> i mean i guess i could just quit this job that's a roundabout way of solving the problem too
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• 2302[17:30:24] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 2322[17:43:58] <jelly> tcl?
• 2323[17:44:17] * jelly now knows two people proficient with tcl
• 2324[17:44:19] <greycat> It's the one I've been using the most. Work stuff.
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• 2327[17:45:26] <digdilem> blimey, that takes me back. eggdrop in the 90s
• 2328[17:46:24] <pingfloyd> zerocool: sounds like you're overthinking it
• 2329[17:47:11] <zerocool> pingfloyd: overthinking what
• 2330[17:47:12] *** Quits: Technologitanos (~techteck@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2331[17:47:28] <bipul> tcl is oldest language i believe ? used for networking relation simulations if i'm not mistaken.
• 2332[17:47:40] <greycat> Tcl and perl were both started around the same time. Python is newer.
• 2333[17:48:00] <pingfloyd> zerocool: the situation
• 2334[17:48:09] <bipul> Humm... hardly any profitable organization now these days uses it.
• 2335[17:48:19] <annadane> older than cobol or lisp?
• 2336[17:48:32] *** Quits: [dd] (~dd]@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2337[17:48:36] <greycat> COBOL and LISP are much older. Along with C and Fortran.
• 2338[17:48:40] <bipul> ahaha BASIC , LOGO , PASCAL are the most oldest
• 2339[17:48:48] <thenori> replaced-url
• 2340[17:48:49] <greycat> Tcl and perl are based in part on C and sh.
• 2341[17:48:54] <jhutchins_wk> RPG
• 2342[17:48:59] *** Joins: tgunr (admin@replaced-ip)
• 2343[17:49:02] <greycat> Tcl also inherits a bit from LISP. Perl, not so much.
• 2344[17:49:09] <fuxxy> So Windows decided it knew what was better for me than I did, so it rebooted my laptop during an rsync process. It was almost finished with ~2TB. I'm attempting to resume with --partial, but it appears to be starting over from the beginning. What should I be doing differently?
• 2345[17:49:25] <zerocool> pingfloyd: i just asked if there was an easy way to convert timezones and what i get is people giving me personal advice.
• 2346[17:49:28] <thenori> replaced-url
• 2347[17:49:39] <zerocool> about situations they have no idea about
• 2348[17:49:41] *** Joins: OS-66722 (~OS-66722@replaced-ip)
• 2349[17:49:41] <pingfloyd> zerocool: you're being to pandering to them
• 2350[17:49:48] *** Quits: chmykh (~chmykh@replaced-ip) (Quit: chmykh)
• 2351[17:50:15] <greycat> zerocool: if you want robotic answers, ask a robot. We're people.
• 2352[17:50:17] *** Quits: OS-66722 (~OS-66722@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2353[17:50:27] <pingfloyd> I'd just tell them, "I checked the logs and the problem doesn't appear on this side".
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• 2356[17:50:52] <zerocool> no im an engineer and I am explaining to other engineers where a problem lies but i also know that i will be cc'ing people who are not engineers.
• 2357[17:51:34] <thenori> @fuxxy maybe --size-only would work?
• 2358[17:51:40] <thenori> That skips files that match in size.
• 2359[17:51:44] <greycat> oh wow, LISP is a year older than COBOL... didn't know that
• 2360[17:52:03] <dob1> I don't understand what I am doing wrong here in this simple bash script. replaced-url
• 2361[17:52:18] <fuxxy> thenori, I'll give it a shot. I don't want it to transfer *everything*, just check that the file is there and correct, with size matching or checksum would be even better.
• 2362[17:52:19] <dob1> (intentation is ok in the real file)
• 2363[17:52:26] <dob1> *indentation
• 2364[17:52:35] <fuxxy> thenori, keep the --size-only ?
• 2365[17:52:53] <fuxxy> err, Keep the --inplace , and add --size-only?
• 2366[17:53:06] <pingfloyd> zerocool: why go out of your way to do their work?
• 2367[17:53:27] *** Quits: plasticle (~plasticle@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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• 2369[17:53:45] <thenori> --inplace doesn't conflict with --partial
• 2370[17:53:48] <zerocool> pingfloyd: because they are saying the problem is not on their end
• 2371[17:53:50] <zerocool> since 2014
• 2372[17:54:01] <pingfloyd> so tell them it isn't and leave it at that
• 2373[17:54:17] <zerocool> but then they say it does and our company is losing 500k a day
• 2374[17:54:19] <thenori> @fuxxy, check out "--compare-dest=DIR"
• 2375[17:54:19] <pingfloyd> you're playing the situation from losing ground
• 2376[17:54:20] <zerocool> because of it
• 2377[17:54:25] <zerocool> what would you do really
• 2378[17:54:33] <pingfloyd> why do you have to prove their accusations are false?
• 2379[17:54:46] <thenori> @fuxxy it might be faster to use -fuzzy
• 2380[17:54:46] <fuxxy> thenori, I'm sorry, I told you wrong initially. I didn't use --partial, but I actually used --inplace on my first resume attempt
• 2381[17:54:47] <bipul> dob1, What error are you getting?
• 2382[17:54:47] <pingfloyd> it should be them not making accusation without proof to begin with.
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• 2387[17:54:58] <dob1> bipul, there are no errors, nothing on output
• 2388[17:55:01] *** Quits: OS-66722 (~OS-66722@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2389[17:55:02] <zerocool> pingfloyd: if it was your job you'd understand
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• 2392[17:56:32] <thenori> @fuxxy, --compare-dest checks the full contents. you have to provide the dir as an arg
• 2393[17:57:07] *** rafalcpp_ is now known as rafalcpp
• 2394[17:57:12] <fuxxy> thenori, that would be acceptable. Both directores are local on the remote system
• 2395[17:57:22] <pingfloyd> zerocool: as soon as you have to prove yourself, and it's to a situation where you're not the one making the claim, you've already lost.
• 2396[17:57:30] <dob1> the only difference from the one here replaced-url
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• 2398[17:57:54] <thenori> @fuxxy 'fuzzy' would go a lot faster, it just checks the time and size.
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• 2401[17:58:15] <bipul> Are you getting 0 after executing the script?
• 2402[17:58:18] <fuxxy> thenori, I'm running 'rsync --size-only -a -P' now, and it appears to have skipped the vast majority of files. I'll read up on --fuzzy and --compare-dest
• 2403[17:58:23] <bipul> i.e $0 ?
• 2404[17:58:41] *** Quits: gh00p (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2405[17:58:41] <bipul> s/$0/$?
• 2406[17:58:51] <thenori> --size-only is like --fuzzy but it only checks size and not date @fuxxy
• 2407[17:58:55] <dob1> bipul, echo $? gives me 0
• 2408[17:59:00] <fuxxy> for my use case, --fuzzy may be a bit, well, fuzzy.
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• 2412[17:59:12] <thenori> --size-only is a subset of --fuzzy
• 2413[17:59:17] <terr__> apt-get install ddrescue <-- E: Unable to locate package (stretch
• 2414[17:59:34] *** Quits: pgrptm (~gainzl0rd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2415[17:59:40] <thenori> you just made it today, so it makes sense.
• 2416[17:59:50] <greycat> ,info gddrescue
• 2417[17:59:51] <jelly> ,v ddrescue
• 2418[17:59:52] <judd> Package gddrescue (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: GNU data recovery tool. Version: 1.23-2; Size: 122.2k; Installed: 404k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2419[17:59:53] <judd> No package named 'ddrescue' was found in amd64.
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• 2421[17:59:58] <fuxxy> so, ahh, --fuzzy does filesize and date, while --size-only only compares size. Again, in this situation, date timestamps arent relevant
• 2422[17:59:59] <EdePopede> ,f bin/ddrescue
• 2423[18:00:04] <pingfloyd> zerocool: when they claim it's on your side, you should be asking, "what drew you to this conclusion?"
• 2424[18:00:06] <EdePopede> ?
• 2425[18:00:29] <thenori> if you use --inplace and it's interrupted, you might have corrupted files on dest
• 2426[18:00:35] <jelly> EdePopede: judd file has no shortcut I think
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• 2429[18:00:52] <EdePopede> i'm sure i've seen this syntax before
• 2430[18:00:59] <greycat> ,file bin/ddrescue
• 2431[18:01:04] <judd> Search for bin/ddrescue in buster/amd64: gddrescue: usr/bin/ddrescue
• 2432[18:01:05] <EdePopede> ah!
• 2433[18:01:36] <jehorn> Hi guys, I have a question. I've written a program for viewing Debian bug listings through the console. I want to package it in a DEB package archive, how can I do that?
• 2434[18:01:55] <fuxxy> thenori, I just interrupted the --inplace to attempt --size-only/--fuzzy, Would it be possible to verify after this --size-only completes?
• 2435[18:02:09] <thenori> yeah that'd be easy
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• 2437[18:03:07] <terr__> EdePopede, its not in this system.
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• 2439[18:03:52] *** Joins: e2 (e2@replaced-ip)
• 2440[18:03:59] <thenori> It'd be resource-intensive, but -c == --checksum
• 2441[18:04:02] <fuxxy> terr__, in my experience, ddrescue/dd_rescue is never included in distro's defaults
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• 2444[18:04:20] <maisonmont> bonjour
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• 2446[18:04:37] <terr__> fuxxy, that is fine - It should be a package I can install - apt-get does not find it
• 2447[18:04:42] <joepublic> hello.
• 2448[18:04:43] *** Quits: riex (riex@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2449[18:04:45] <fuxxy> terr__, it is
• 2450[18:04:57] <terr__> fuxxy, whats the name?
• 2451[18:05:01] *** Parts: jehorn (~lubuntu@replaced-ip) ()
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• 2453[18:05:31] <fuxxy> terr__, apt install gddrescue
• 2454[18:06:03] <terr__> I don't think I have apt - I tried apt-get and it should do the same thing
• 2455[18:06:19] *** Joins: natan77 (~OS-66722@replaced-ip)
• 2456[18:06:35] <terr__> apt finds it - apt-get did not!
• 2457[18:06:48] <terr__> no - apt did NOT find it.
• 2458[18:06:54] <bipul> dob1, Do you able to figure it out? Which version bash are you using?
• 2459[18:07:13] <terr__> gddrescue...
• 2460[18:07:30] *** Joins: pgrptm (~gainzl0rd@replaced-ip)
• 2461[18:07:37] <fuxxy> terr__, I havent read the chat backlog, but if you're trying to recover a failing drive, there's a few steps you should follow in order (eg; (1)copy as much data as quickly as possible, skipping bad data, (2)re-visit the bad data, and try with x attempts, (3)attempt to fill in still-missing data backwards
• 2462[18:07:58] <fuxxy> terr__, it may be in the testing branch, one moment
• 2463[18:08:16] <terr__> ai found gddrescue... its installed.
• 2464[18:08:25] <dob1> bipul, no, 5.0.3
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• 2467[18:09:01] <fuxxy> terr__, great work, then! - It appears to be in all repos, from jessie all the way to sid
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• 2469[18:09:20] <bipul> try removing !
• 2470[18:09:27] *** Quits: OS-66722 (~OS-66722@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2471[18:09:44] <terr__> perfect - is there any reason to use -d? or -r 3? I can just let it default I think
• 2472[18:10:11] <fuxxy> terr__, see the "chat backlog" comment above
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• 2475[18:10:43] <dob1> bipul, if I use dir path instead of the variable in the loop it works...
• 2476[18:10:46] <bipul> remove negate and string remove from echo
• 2477[18:11:21] <bipul> string not*
• 2478[18:11:21] <terr__> fuxxy, not failing that I know of. I just want a compressed image and this looks to be a good way to get it.
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• 2483[18:13:06] <fuxxy> terr__, ahh, I would include both - -d specifies direct access and to ignore the kernel cache (I would use -d); -r 3 attempts to read bad data 3 times before giving up (with a good drive, you shouldnt need it, but I would include anyway)
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• 2487[18:14:13] <bipul> I think this is the correct format [ -d "$dir" ] && echo "Directory ${dir} exists." && echo "Found"
• 2488[18:14:18] <fuxxy> terr__, in either case, I would ALWAYS run ddrescue with a log file (just in case bad data is encountered)
• 2489[18:14:37] <fuxxy> terr__, once the drive is successfully copied with no errors, you can delete the logfile
• 2490[18:14:38] <terr__> fuxxy, its running on defaults. looks to be okay. I went into dolphin (damn fish) and unmounted the partitions
• 2491[18:15:20] <terr__> i used ddrescue /dev/sda1 w7home w7homp-map
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• 2494[18:16:19] <ratrace> terr__: dolphin ain't a fish tho. they're mammals.
• 2495[18:16:26] <terr__> its copying to an NTFS partition.
• 2496[18:16:36] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip)
• 2497[18:16:38] <bipul> dob1, Please check replaced-url
• 2498[18:16:44] <fuxxy> terr__, I'm unsure if the disk partition table has to match the partition image, but I don't THINK it would be an issue.
• 2499[18:17:03] *** Quits: zodd (~Zzzzzzzzz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2500[18:17:08] <terr__> raya - I know that. but the dolphin installed in this machine aint a mammal neither
• 2501[18:17:25] <terr__> it should not be - not at all.
• 2502[18:17:28] <fuxxy> eg; an image pullled from a 200GB partition restored to a >200GB partition
• 2503[18:17:41] <dob1> bipul, the problem was on the for loop
• 2504[18:17:54] <terr__> fuxxy, that source partition should be almost empty.
• 2505[18:18:12] <bipul> oh
• 2506[18:18:51] <fuxxy> terr__, if this is for archival, it would be smart to run a defrag on the partition before creating the image. This way the zeros will all be at the end of the image
• 2507[18:18:53] <terr__> the damn fish updates file sizes on the fly - that is nice of it. :-)
• 2508[18:19:23] <terr__> I don't care where they are actually. I don't ever intend to use it!
• 2509[18:19:26] <bipul> dob1, And what was that? because i'm unable to execute this line [ ! -d "$dir" ] && echo "Directory ${dir} not exists." && exit 1 on my shell
• 2510[18:19:40] <terr__> its a home edition and I use PRO.
• 2511[18:19:56] <terr__> I'm just being anal and I test it on a machine I don't care about
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• 2513[18:20:16] <lord-carlos> Anyone know why this is returning a server error? replaced-url
• 2514[18:20:30] *** Quits: maisonmont (5879b0da@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2515[18:21:12] <terr__> 5% rescued already! This is faster than I thought. about 1 MB/s - not bad on USB 2
• 2516[18:21:37] <terr__> 15 MB/s
• 2517[18:21:50] <bipul> zfs document need to re-reverse and updated.
• 2518[18:21:51] <terr__> This KB has a sticky 5
• 2519[18:22:16] *** Joins: gh00p (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2520[18:22:28] <dob1> bipul, I don't know, it doesn't like for file in "${dir}*.adoc"; do ... I have to use for file in /some/path/*.adoc; do
• 2521[18:23:00] <fuxxy> USB2 has a theoretical 60MB/sec transfer rate
• 2522[18:23:56] <terr__> fuxxy, my next step is I will expand the image into a windows parttion on this HDD and then use grub to pick up the mount point and test it. issue is Grub and I are not dancing yet. I have Buster on the drive as well and I _should_ be able to make that partition bootable - but alas - no joy yet.
• 2523[18:23:56] *** Quits: aeglos (01a35fdd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2524[18:23:57] <lord-carlos> Is document re-reverse and updateing a manuel process?
• 2525[18:24:25] <fuxxy> terr__, you'll need to chainload the windows bootloader from grub
• 2526[18:24:36] *** Quits: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip) ()
• 2527[18:24:41] <terr__> fuxxy, I know that.
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• 2531[18:25:45] <fuxxy> terr__, the process is partly black magic, you need to prepare a sacrifice of 1.44MB floppies.
• 2532[18:26:03] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
• 2533[18:26:12] <terr__> each partition _should_ have the equivalent of an MBR (its an MBR machine) and the drive should have the stage 1 MBR with the installed partition and sector address of GRUB. That is how it has to work. But I can't find docs on this and I don't yet know how to do it. Last time was 1997 and I was using CHS addressing.
• 2534[18:26:43] <terr__> fuxxy, the machine doesn't have a FDD.
• 2535[18:26:45] <bipul> dob1, Anyway but i did not see anything wrong in your for loop, i.e for file in "${dir}*.adoc"; do .... done
• 2536[18:27:03] <greycat> for file in "$dir"*.adoc; do ...; done
• 2537[18:27:11] <terr__> I have CD's and DVDs... a whole stack of them - only used one! in about years.
• 2538[18:27:13] <greycat> "$dir" must be quoted, * must not
• 2539[18:27:30] <terr__> Now they have type "M" drives. I should sell the one I have.
• 2540[18:27:58] <bipul> greycat, +1
• 2541[18:28:07] <fuxxy> terr__, Nope, it MUST be floppies. Microwave 10 floppy disks while chanting "May the Gates always open our Windows"
• 2542[18:28:09] <bipul> I agree with greycat :)
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• 2546[18:29:23] <terr__> fuxxy, this microwave is high power and it has a broiler option.
• 2547[18:29:26] <fuxxy> terr__, and I don't have the proof, but I don't think each windows partition has a bootloader. I've only been able to successfully chainload by installing Windows first, then installing linux on the free unpartitioned space.
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• 2551[18:30:33] <terr__> fuxxy, then dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr bs=512 should lift the MBR and the addresses are in it.
• 2552[18:30:42] <greycat> count=1
• 2553[18:30:52] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip)
• 2554[18:31:00] <fuxxy> terr__, correct
• 2555[18:31:09] <terr__> greycat, yes! I forgot that.
• 2556[18:31:38] <fuxxy> greycat, thanks, I always overlook the details
• 2557[18:31:43] <dob1> greycat, got it, thanks
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• 2561[18:33:19] <jhutchins_wk> terr__: There is only one MBR per physical device. It is written outside the standard data sectors.
• 2562[18:33:41] <terr__> jhutchins_wk, should be sector 0
• 2563[18:33:53] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2564[18:34:06] <terr__> jhutchins_wk, but there HAS TO BE something within each parttion and this should be stage 2
• 2565[18:34:23] <greycat> ...?
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• 2568[18:35:06] <greycat> Not *every* partition. Maybe just the ones that are intended to be bootable.
• 2569[18:35:11] <fuxxy> how to find out what my current shell is?
• 2570[18:35:13] <terr__> jhutchins_wk, I have not been able to find docs on this. there was a very good howto I used in 1995 as I reacall. maybe 1997. I know I had servers running in 1997
• 2571[18:35:14] <greycat> ps -p $$
• 2572[18:35:30] <terr__> greycat, yes - that would be correct.
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• 2574[18:36:20] *** Joins: Hunterkll (~hunterkll@replaced-ip)
• 2575[18:36:36] <terr__> I designed this back HDD so it would be bootable.
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• 2581[18:39:18] <fuxxy> terr__, back in 1997, I though I was hot shit by setting up a dialup machine in my parents house so both our computers could be online at the same time.
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• 2586[18:40:38] <terr__> fuxxy, back then I had dialup with one ISP and DSL with another - dual accounts. Because the guys with the dial up knew what they were doing
• 2587[18:41:05] *** Joins: martian67| (~martian67@replaced-ip)
• 2588[18:41:34] <bipul> echo $SHELL
• 2589[18:41:43] *** Quits: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2590[18:41:58] <terr__> back then I was handling over $50k per month in high end SCSI equipment as well! damn progress. 9 GB @ $4500 deteriorated to 2 TB at $50 bux
• 2591[18:42:04] <greycat> bipul: no, incorrect.
• 2592[18:42:11] <bipul> how ??
• 2593[18:42:16] <greycat> $SHELL tells you what your login account's shell is, not what your current shell is
• 2594[18:42:30] *** Joins: m1dnight_ (~m1dnight@replaced-ip)
• 2595[18:42:32] <bipul> ok
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• 2597[18:42:56] <bipul> :) thank you for updating me :) greycat
• 2598[18:43:14] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2599[18:43:28] <terr__> this ddrescue is coming along nicely - zero errors.
• 2600[18:43:36] *** Quits: m1dnight_ (~m1dnight@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2601[18:43:36] <greycat> ps -p $$ works on BSD or System V flavors of ps, and Bourne or csh flavors of shells. It's not 100% foolproof but it's the best I've got.
• 2602[18:43:51] <fuxxy> terr__, as it should, on a drive with no errors
• 2603[18:44:01] <terr__> some of the programmers I have worked with would use a float to count errors
• 2604[18:44:20] <bipul> ok.
• 2605[18:45:07] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2606[18:45:41] <terr__> how about a for {} with the count being a float?
• 2607[18:45:41] *** Joins: m1dnight_ (~m1dnight@replaced-ip)
• 2608[18:45:49] <fuxxy> terr__, meanwhile, this SATA3-to-SATA3 copy is only going at 80MB/sec
• 2609[18:45:56] <terr__> PL/I will let you do that
• 2610[18:46:19] <terr__> that is a little slow
• 2611[18:46:27] <terr__> I'm at 15
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• 2613[18:47:44] <fuxxy> the source drive is an IBM SAS drive, I'm thinking it's the destination RAID that's writing slowly
• 2614[18:48:04] <dudz> which kind of RAID?
• 2615[18:48:12] <jelly> judd: wnpp shit
• 2616[18:48:13] <judd> Sorry, no wnpp bugs were found.
• 2617[18:48:21] <terr__> dudz, my question! and is it HW raid
• 2618[18:48:35] <jelly> (it's a git implementation in (mostly) sh)
• 2619[18:48:42] <fuxxy> dudz, ZFS RAIDz2
• 2620[18:48:59] <terr__> software?
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• 2623[18:49:06] <fuxxy> terr__, correct
• 2624[18:49:19] <terr__> I forget raid2. Stripe?
• 2625[18:49:24] <dudz> much cpu load?
• 2626[18:49:37] <fuxxy> z2 is dual parity
• 2627[18:49:38] <terr__> dudz, shouldn't be
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• 2630[18:49:54] <jelly> raidz2 is "2 disk members worth of redundacy, similar to raid6"
• 2631[18:50:11] <fuxxy> dudz, 1.39 1.54 1.41
• 2632[18:50:48] <terr__> jelly, so not necessarily striped. fuxxy how many drives?
• 2633[18:50:55] <fuxxy> terr__, 10 total
• 2634[18:51:09] <terr__> okay - striped then.
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• 2638[18:52:47] <fuxxy> Good news is I'm only using 2.17G of 16GB RAM
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• 2643[18:54:53] <terr__> fuxxy, you should use windows. Why let that RAM go to waste?
• 2644[18:55:11] <sponix> terr__: lol
• 2645[18:56:18] *** Quits: MyroSVK (~MyroSVK@replaced-ip) (Quit: Have to go...)
• 2646[18:56:33] <fuxxy> terr__, I was running Windows. I ran out of floppies.
• 2647[18:56:35] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2648[18:57:07] <terr__> fuxxy, with the rigth microwave that should not be a problem - they can be reused.
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• 2652[18:59:03] <terr__> fuxxy, I figured DOS was pretty good. except I never did figure out how to detach. OS/2 was okay.
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• 2654[19:00:40] <terr__> As I recall NT4.0 could run some OS/2 executables. Its been a while.. and guess what? I have an NT4.0 boot disk.
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• 2657[19:01:36] <terr__> this poor external HDD - it keeps blinking at me as if to say - why are you feeding me this shit?
• 2658[19:01:56] <fuxxy> I have access to those as well. Actually, the entire suite back to WFW 3.1
• 2659[19:01:57] <terr__> big blue eye. innocent
• 2660[19:02:49] <terr__> I go back to PC DOS 3 and before on IBM, HP3000 and a bunch of the bunch
• 2661[19:03:32] <terr__> Burroughs, Univac, NCR, CDC, Honeywell - and EACH of them came up with a solid OS. M$ never has.
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• 2665[19:05:54] <terr__> fuxxy, this thing really slowed down 8 MB/s now
• 2666[19:06:13] <fuxxy> terr__, read errors?
• 2667[19:06:32] <terr__> doesn't show any
• 2668[19:06:35] *** Joins: damex_ (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 2669[19:06:49] <fuxxy> Then no worries. possibly drive cache ran out
• 2670[19:07:10] <terr__> must be a soft spot in the windows 7 home edition underbelly
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• 2672[19:07:51] <terr__> home edition doesn't even have an administrator. Talk about a crock of shit.
• 2673[19:07:55] <fuxxy> terr__, nah, this is just basic HDD operation. The builtin cache can only saturate the bus so long
• 2674[19:08:08] <terr__> I paid $50 bux for the system. and I bitch
• 2675[19:08:30] <terr__> well its close to 40 GB
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• 2679[19:09:56] <terr__> damn battery on one of my $50 laptops failed. Its going to cost me like $25 bux for the battery. I checked and I can open the battery case and replace the batteries. The replacement batteries cost $36 bux. Planned obsolescence
• 2680[19:10:38] <sponix> terr__: just pull the battery and run straight from the wall if it will allow it (most do)
• 2681[19:10:56] <terr__> sponix, did that - runs fine.
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• 2683[19:11:23] <fuxxy> Most laptops use 18650 Li-Ion cells. The trick is in the balancing circuit, those need to be reprogrammed to reset the "wear statistics", for lack of a better term
• 2684[19:12:01] <terr__> 18650s? I think a tesla Model S uses the same ones.
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• 2687[19:13:42] <terr__> I am setting everything up on a big UPS system anyways. I need to drive steppers. these are dormant in my case most of the time. Cheapest way is deep cycle batteries and a rather large buck converter.
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• 2690[19:14:14] <terr__> so I may as well retire the wall warts before I even start
• 2691[19:14:39] <terr__> I can get a 2 amp buck for like $25 bux
• 2692[19:14:52] <terr__> 25 amp
• 2693[19:16:03] <terr__> couple of batteries can handle 100 amps at 27 volts no issue and they can hold like 60 amp hours
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• 2696[19:17:15] <terr__> what is this "non-trimmed" 36964 B
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• 2701[19:18:55] <terr__> Size of the part of the rescue domain pending to be trimmed. This is the sum of the sizes of all the non-trimmed blocks
• 2702[19:19:12] <terr__> Does this mean its starting to run into unused sectors?
• 2703[19:19:18] <jelly> context?
• 2704[19:19:51] <terr__> jelly - it just gave me a non-zero count for non-trimmed
• 2705[19:19:57] <jelly> what did?
• 2706[19:20:15] <joepublic> you know, it.
• 2707[19:20:22] <jelly> ah. it. Of course.
• 2708[19:20:23] <jelly> !ask
• 2709[19:20:23] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 2710[19:20:27] <terr__> ddrescue
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• 2716[19:24:10] <jelly> info ddrescue seems to have an explananation of the steps, and "trimming" seems to be used as "figuring out precisely where bad blocks end and begin"
• 2717[19:24:40] <jelly> so it "trims" the good parts around those carefully
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• 2723[19:25:28] <jelly> (completely unrelated to SATA TRIM, SSDs, fstrim or anything)
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• 2725[19:27:14] <jelly> terr__: info ddrescue Algorithm
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• 2728[19:27:42] * jelly seems to remember there having been a similar non-GNU tool called dd_rescue
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• 2730[19:29:24] <jelly> that other one can still be found at: deb replaced-url
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• 2806[20:16:57] <Lingo07> linux@schizophrenia:~/Desktop/multitor-master$ ./setup.sh install
• 2807[20:16:57] <Lingo07> Create symbolic link to /usr/local/bin
• 2808[20:16:57] <Lingo07> Create man page to /usr/local/man/man8
• 2809[20:16:57] <Lingo07> how to solve it?
• 2810[20:17:12] <greycat> solve what?
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• 2812[20:17:27] <greycat> it's telling you what it did
• 2813[20:17:56] <Lingo07> greycat: i need to open multi tor browser simultanously
• 2814[20:18:09] <greycat> then do that
• 2815[20:18:48] <Lingo07> greycat i do script from github but not working and im new to linux
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• 2817[20:19:05] <greycat> follow the directions?
• 2818[20:19:25] <Lingo07> i felow instructions actually
• 2819[20:19:54] <greycat> Then maybe you could tell us what *problem* you have.
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• 2821[20:20:54] <jhutchins_wk> Lingo07: You also haven't told us what random project you're pulling from github, which is NOT recommended even for experienced linux users, and certainly not for beginners.
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• 2832[20:28:19] <openbsdtai123> hello
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• 2834[20:28:36] <openbsdtai123> is there a polish-english dictionary for debian on rpi3b?
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• 2836[20:28:51] <openbsdtai123> ydpdict is not packaged.
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• 2845[20:37:18] <frotz47> hello.
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• 2891[21:14:50] <terr_> ddrescue has completed. I probably should have used --sparse since now my target is 100 GB and I know that drive is almost empty. 1) how can I compress it? 2) is compressing now better or worse than --sparse 3) I have errsize 4096 B That field is not in the documentation which I have here: replaced-url
• 2892[21:14:50] <terr_> test that it worked and to get there I need to get grub working properly.
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• 2900[21:19:49] <jelly> terr_: 4096B is one bad sector on a 4KiB sector sized disk
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• 2904[21:21:23] <terr_> jelly - the source is a 250 GB drive. formatted by ASUS
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• 2907[21:21:41] <terr_> or whoever made the drive.
• 2908[21:22:10] <terr_> I suspect 1 bad sector. I would like to try to recover it just so I know how.
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• 2910[21:23:04] <jelly> you can't.
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• 2912[21:23:17] <jelly> the data is gone. That's what "bad sector" means.
• 2913[21:23:30] <greycat> "But in hollywood, you can always recover the data, and you can always zoom in on the license plate, and, and..."
• 2914[21:23:37] <sbug> :)
• 2915[21:23:43] <jelly> the tool you used tried to read it several times
• 2916[21:24:14] <jelly> you can, however, hope no important data or metadata was stored there
• 2917[21:24:55] <jelly> and since gnu ddrescue keeps some sort of logs, you can probably figure out which, if any, file is affected
• 2918[21:25:08] *** Quits: tomg (tomg@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2919[21:25:41] <terr_> jelly I really dodn't care. Its a test machine. I intend to blow the contents of that partition sky high anyways and house mate does have a blasting license. (no kidding). No gun permit - but if we want a ton of Anflo there is no issue at all.
• 2920[21:25:43] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
• 2921[21:25:43] <jelly> replaced-url
• 2922[21:25:51] *** Quits: riex (riex@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2923[21:26:02] <jelly> terr_: um, then why did you copy it?
• 2924[21:26:07] *** Joins: tomg (tomg@replaced-ip)
• 2925[21:26:14] *** Joins: urxtnw (~urxtnw4@replaced-ip)
• 2926[21:26:22] <terr_> jelly, there is 151 bytes in the mapfile. I have not looked in it yet.
• 2927[21:26:38] *** Quits: a0z (~a0z@replaced-ip) (Quit: )
• 2928[21:26:54] <urxtnw> Does anyone know, back in 2011 when Gnome 2 was replaced by Gnome 3 and you were running Gnome 2, what happen with Debian installations that didn't support Gnome 3 until 2015?
• 2929[21:27:05] <terr_> jelly - to find out how things work. I'm not going to do this on a production system. I have hot spares for testing.
• 2930[21:27:36] *** Joins: riex (riex@replaced-ip)
• 2931[21:28:03] <terr_> jelly, I honestly have probably quite a learning curve ahead.
• 2932[21:28:13] *** Quits: Lingo07 (~linux@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2933[21:28:24] <jelly> urxtnw: debian does not always ship latest upstream software version
• 2934[21:28:26] *** Quits: Mmike (~mario@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2935[21:28:57] *** Quits: Ameisen (~Ameisen@replaced-ip) (Quit: Quitting)
• 2936[21:29:04] <jelly> !release history
• 2937[21:29:04] <dpkg> Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. replaced-url
• 2938[21:29:11] <urxtnw> urxtnw, I understand that, but what would've happend with your installation?
• 2939[21:29:20] *** Joins: PallasXD (~PallasXD@replaced-ip)
• 2940[21:29:26] <greycat> You would continue running whatever you have.
• 2941[21:29:35] <terr_> map file is human readable. But then I can read hex.
• 2942[21:29:36] <jelly> urxtnw: you'd keep using the Gnome version that's installed
• 2943[21:29:45] *** Joins: Ameisen (~Ameisen@replaced-ip)
• 2944[21:29:47] <urxtnw> greycat, so gnome 2 was supported with security updates until 2015?
• 2945[21:30:00] *** Joins: Mmike (~mario@replaced-ip)
• 2946[21:30:02] <terr_> greycat, do I just start it over with the exact same command?
• 2947[21:30:04] <greycat> If it was in the current Debian release at the time, sure.
• 2948[21:30:18] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2949[21:30:19] <terr_> it finished about 55 minutes ago.
• 2950[21:30:22] <terr_> it finished about 5 minutes ago.
• 2951[21:30:47] <urxtnw> greycat, jelly my question is, you are running software X, and new release decides to not support it anymore, when you upgrade what happens?
• 2952[21:30:51] *** Quits: Mmike (~mario@replaced-ip) (Changing host)
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• 2958[21:31:40] <greycat> In the theoretical case where you're running Desktop Environment Z in buster, and bullseye (buster+1) no longer offers Desktop Environment Z, you will be sitting there with an unsupported, but presumably still functional, Desktop Environment, and you get to choose how to deal with it.
• 2959[21:32:08] <somiaj> urxtnw: that question is a bit to vague, you mean debian decides not to support software and removes it from debian? The package becomes obslete and you have to manually remove it
• 2960[21:32:31] <jelly> urxtnw: it depends. Usually you're left using packages that are obsolete and do not exist in current release any more. But sometimes the release upgrade process removes them and installs something else that is percieved as a successor.
• 2961[21:32:40] <urxtnw> That makes sense. Would someone tell you (apt), or do you have to research it yourself?
• 2962[21:32:47] <somiaj> It is often suggested you run 'aptitude search ~o' after a dist-upgrade to identify any obslete packages.
• 2963[21:33:09] <urxtnw> somiaj, isn't that what happened? It was gnome 2, then debian switched to XFCE until 2015 when gnome 3 was introduced back
• 2964[21:33:15] <jelly> urxtnw: you would a) read the release notes for the release you're upgrading to, and loss of a whole DE would certainly be mentioned there
• 2965[21:33:16] *** Quits: JesseWalling (~jpwall@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
• 2966[21:33:27] <somiaj> urxtnw: gnome was never removed from debian.
• 2967[21:33:31] <greycat> Debian doesn't "switch to Desktop Environment Q". It offers many DEs.
• 2968[21:33:38] <jelly> urxtnw: b) you'd read apt output and notice stuff was being removed
• 2969[21:33:46] <oerheks> check-support-status
• 2970[21:34:05] <urxtnw> somiaj, damn, I shouldn't believe what wikipedia says " For example, Debian, a Linux distribution that had historically used GNOME 2, switched to Xfce when GNOME 3 was released but readopted GNOME 3 in time for the release of Debian 8 "Jessie"."
• 2971[21:34:12] *** Quits: saundkim (~saundkim@replaced-ip) (Quit: saundkim)
• 2972[21:34:18] *** mutanttu1key is now known as mutantturkey
• 2973[21:34:18] <greycat> don't believe everything you read on the internet
• 2974[21:34:26] <jelly> somiaj: kde3 was removed, gnome2 was removed, neither had an upgrade process worth a damn
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• 2978[21:35:01] <somiaj> jelly: ahh, must have overlooked that, I thought there was a transition with transitional packages for that (don't actually use either so never noticed)
• 2979[21:35:24] <jelly> urxtnw: wikipedia does not seem to recognize that installer defaults are different from what's actually available in debian
• 2980[21:35:29] <greycat> and "Debian removed x" means "x was no longer available for download in release y", not "x will be removed from your system if you upgrade to release y".
• 2981[21:35:39] <somiaj> urxtnw: I think many people put to much stock in debian's default desktop. Debian has provided multiple desktops and/or window managers for users to choose from.
• 2982[21:35:46] <greycat> whatever is already installed, tends to stay installed, almost always
• 2983[21:35:52] <urxtnw> jelly somiaj , that's definitely the case
• 2984[21:36:07] *** Quits: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2985[21:36:12] <jelly> urxtnw: it is not that Debian " switched to Xfce ", it's just that default choice of DE in the installer was changed.
• 2986[21:36:31] <urxtnw> somiaj, you helped me with some questions earlier this week about debian, I finally switched completely yesterday and I did it with a minimal install.
• 2987[21:36:36] <somiaj> outside of the standard (and higher priority packages) everything else is optional in debian for users to use what they need.
• 2988[21:36:42] * jelly never switched TO Gnome
• 2989[21:36:45] *** Quits: hemimaniac (~hemimania@replaced-ip) (Quit: Gotta go, Wife voluntold me to do something)
• 2990[21:36:46] <mason> jelly: Wikipedia editors clearly are befuddled by "spins" of the various distros.
• 2991[21:36:48] <urxtnw> yeah that makes sense
• 2992[21:37:00] <greycat> I briefly experimented with GNOME in the pre-2.0 days. Didn't see the point.
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• 2995[21:37:14] <mason> Gnome 2.0 was pleasant enough, if heavy.
• 2996[21:37:30] *** Joins: JesseWalling (~jpwall@replaced-ip)
• 2997[21:37:38] <enyc> Ooooho i remember the /opt/gnome-1.4/lib .. /opt/gnu/bin/bash blah balh on a solaris system with gnome 1.4 ;p
• 2998[21:37:39] <somiaj> was xfce ever default in an actual release, or was this just something in testing that never got released (my fuzzy memeory seems to think gnome has been the default gui for a long time)
• 2999[21:37:49] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 3000[21:37:58] <mason> somiaj: Isn't it the default today?
• 3001[21:38:09] <urxtnw> it is
• 3002[21:38:09] <greycat> gnome3 is basically the default today
• 3003[21:38:16] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip)
• 3004[21:38:17] <urxtnw> Is Empathy a good video program/replacement for something like skype? What about Jitsi? What would you guys recommend.
• 3005[21:38:19] <greycat> insofar as *anything* is
• 3006[21:38:23] <somiaj> mason: gnome is the default and has been for most of my memeory, I don't install that often, but my recolection is gnome is the default if you choose nothing
• 3007[21:38:52] <somiaj> urxtnw: a lot depends on what the people you chat with use. It is often easier to use what they use than to try to get them to use what you want.
• 3008[21:38:52] <greycat> gnome3 is the default if you install using "netinst" or "dvd1" or "netinst with nonfree firmware".
• 3009[21:39:06] <greycat> if you install with "live-crazy-bullshit-thing" then all bets are off.
• 3010[21:39:06] <mason> Alright. I'm not a good source of these things. All my installs start off as minimal.
• 3011[21:39:16] *** Joins: Ameisen- (~Ameisen@replaced-ip)
• 3012[21:39:24] <urxtnw> somiaj, if you'd be able to get them to use what they want, what is your opinion on a reliable video conferencing program?
• 3013[21:39:40] <somiaj> mason: well outside of the minimial install (and maybe a few standard packages it might miss), everything else is considered optional.
• 3014[21:39:42] <mason> In fact, most of my installs start off with debootstrap nowadays, so somewhat less than minimal.
• 3015[21:40:04] *** Joins: hemimaniac (~hemimania@replaced-ip)
• 3016[21:40:21] <somiaj> urxtnw: I use whatever others use. If it was my choice it would be none.
• 3017[21:41:13] <urxtnw> somiaj, you said you don't install often, when was the last time you did a clean install?
• 3018[21:42:09] *** Quits: sbetrium (~sbetrium@replaced-ip) (Quit: sbetrium)
• 3019[21:42:17] <somiaj> I got a new work laptop with the release of buster, so for that. I usually do a new install with a new machine (though my home desktop hasn't had a new install since I switched to efi how ever many years ago)
• 3020[21:42:43] <somiaj> but since I just select the minimial tools and go through it quickly, I don't pay to much attention to the installer or defaults.
• 3021[21:43:05] <urxtnw> do you install a DE?
• 3022[21:44:09] *** Quits: flo2marsnet (~flo2marsn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 3023[21:44:27] *** Quits: Ameisen- (~Ameisen@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3024[21:44:41] <somiaj> nope
• 3025[21:45:44] <urxtnw> somiaj, what do you use? what kind of configuration? window manager?
• 3026[21:46:21] <somiaj> I use fvwm, just a window manager.
• 3027[21:46:42] <jelly> but is it fvwm 1.24r or fvwm2?
• 3028[21:46:43] <urxtnw> somiaj, what about file manager?
• 3029[21:47:27] <greycat> I use fvwm too, and no "file manager". Unless you count a terminal window with a shell as a file manager.
• 3030[21:47:28] <somiaj> fvwm2, though it is nice that fvwm 1.24r still runs on modern systems.
• 3031[21:47:33] <jelly> ... so I said, "Heathen!" and tossed him off the bridge
• 3032[21:47:52] <joepublic> fvwm95 maybe?
• 3033[21:47:56] <somiaj> no file manager here, really the main thing I use xorg for is a browser and multiple xterms
• 3034[21:48:08] <somiaj> joepublic: that was just fvwm2 + configs
• 3035[21:48:12] <mason> somiaj: Do you use the stub loader? I love nothing bothering with GRUB any more.
• 3036[21:48:17] <urxtnw> somiaj, no browsing pictures, or videos, etc.?
• 3037[21:48:34] <somiaj> urxtnw: feh shows pictures just fine
• 3038[21:48:35] <terr_> people in offtopic are getting randy. I have to go back.
• 3039[21:49:27] <somiaj> mason: I just have been to lazy to switch to one, and then the one I wanted got swalloed up by systemd. But yea with efi there isn't that much of a need for grub anymore (except backup kernels -- never did figure out a nice way to do that without grub)
• 3040[21:49:52] <urxtnw> somiaj, what's bad about systemd?
• 3041[21:50:02] *** Joins: davis (~davis@replaced-ip)
• 3042[21:50:05] <davis> hello. I got a new usb wifi dongle today. I upgraded my kernel to 4.9.0-12 via dist-upgrade. I installed firmware-realtek via apt. I have modprobe rtl8812. lsmod shows it loaded. No errors in dmesg. However sudo iwconfig only shows my laptops built-in wifi adapter and the new usb adapter. What else do I need to do?
• 3043[21:50:17] <jelly> urxtnw: we do not ask that question in polite company
• 3044[21:50:31] <mason> somiaj: There's a pretty decent way. I keep a main entry and then an entry that launches vmlinuz.old with initrd.old. That way I always have main and fallback.
• 3045[21:50:32] <urxtnw> jelly, I'm going to look it up then
• 3046[21:50:47] <somiaj> urxtnw: I like systemd just fine, I just never got around to figuring out how to use it with systemd.
• 3047[21:50:50] <joepublic> "it's inexplicably unpopular. See: have to learn new things"
• 3048[21:51:10] *** Joins: sbetrium (~sbetrium@replaced-ip)
• 3049[21:51:16] <somiaj> mason: yea, I just use grub because all of that is already nicely scripted
• 3050[21:51:24] <jelly> joepublic: now that's just trolling!
• 3051[21:51:35] *** Joins: A731 (2e43d507@replaced-ip)
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• 3053[21:51:59] *** Quits: flyingout_ (~flyingout@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3054[21:52:16] <somiaj> davis: don't quite get your question, "iwconfig shows the wifi adapter and the new usb adapter", though it sounds like you don't actually see the adapter.
• 3055[21:52:19] <joepublic> just an honest assesment, really. people seem to not want to learn a different way to do the same thing, even if the new way has significant improvements.
• 3056[21:52:25] <mason> somiaj: GRUB ends up being more work for things like FDE with ZFS inside, but if you're not using that, yeah, it covers the usual bases.
• 3057[21:52:33] <somiaj> davis: you should be able to see what interface name (if any) was assigned to that device in demsg, check out dmesg for more info.
• 3058[21:52:44] <davis> somiaj: my apologies. iwconfig only shows the builtin adapter. not the usb adapter
• 3059[21:52:58] <A731> Does anyone know a fancy command to repair linker /usr/bin/ld/? I managed to corrupt it
• 3060[21:53:01] <somiaj> mason: I juse use ext4, no need for anything different.
• 3061[21:53:12] *** Joins: oft_gegong (~oft_gegon@replaced-ip)
• 3062[21:53:22] <somiaj> A731: you can reinstall th epackage that contains that binary.
• 3063[21:53:24] *** Joins: jpe (~jp@replaced-ip)
• 3064[21:53:25] <oft_gegong> is there a reason installing debian on a USB would be a bad idea?
• 3065[21:53:42] <mason> oft_gegong: The only issues would be performance and longevity of the media.
• 3066[21:53:54] <somiaj> oft_gegong: often times usb write/read speeds are slow (usb3 is much better) compared to a physical disk, so that is often why not many do it.
• 3067[21:54:07] <jelly> A731: is /usr/bin/ld a symlink or a file right now?
• 3068[21:54:10] <A731> USB wouldnt be that fast, and its not made for continous transmission for long periods
• 3069[21:54:17] <davis> somiaj: i removed the usb dongle, reinserted it. did dmesg. It says new high speed USB device. it gives additional usb messages .
• 3070[21:54:20] <A731> Its a file jelly
• 3071[21:54:28] <somiaj> oft_gegong: That is what a live system is for, it allows an install on a usb drive that does things in memeory so the read/write speeds of the usb drive don't slow the system down as much.
• 3072[21:54:35] <davis> somiaj: it does not say anything relative to adapter.
• 3073[21:54:44] <jelly> A731: rm it, and reinstall the package that brings ld
• 3074[21:54:49] <somiaj> davis: you can share the output at paste.debian.net, but usually it says what interface name was assigned (if any)
• 3075[21:54:52] <jelly> judd: file bin/ld
• 3076[21:54:57] <judd> Search for bin/ld in buster/amd64: [truncated] binutils: usr/bin/ld; binutils-mips64-linux-gnuabi64: usr/mips64-linux-gnuabi64/bin/ld; binutils-m68hc1x: usr/m68hc11/bin/ld; binutils-mips-linux-gnu: usr/mips-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-alpha-linux-gnu: usr/alpha-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-arm-linux-gnueabihf: usr/arm-linux-gnueabihf/bin/ld; binutils-ia64-linux-gnu: usr/ia64-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-arm-
• 3077[21:54:58] <judd> linux-gnueabi: usr/arm-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld; binutils-i686-linux-gnu: usr/i686-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-aarch64-linux-gnu: usr/aarch64-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-i686-kfreebsd-gnu: usr/i686-kfreebsd-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-hppa64-linux-gnu: usr/hppa64-linux-gnu/bin/ld; binutils-h8300-hms: usr/h8300-hitachi-coff/bin/ld; binutils-mingw-w64-i686: usr/i686-w64-mingw32/bin/ld; binutils-i686-gnu: (1 more message)
• 3078[21:54:58] <A731> Alright
• 3079[21:55:00] *** Joins: flyingout_ (~flyingout@replaced-ip)
• 3080[21:55:02] <davis> somiaj: one sec i will paste
• 3081[21:55:08] <jelly> A731: binutils
• 3082[21:55:56] <urxtnw> somiaj, if it's not too personal, what type of work do you do with "many xterms open"?
• 3083[21:56:33] <davis> somiaj: replaced-url
• 3084[21:56:46] *** Joins: Trieste (~T@replaced-ip)
• 3085[21:57:05] <somiaj> urxtnw: I mostly write stuff in tex or markdown for webpages.
• 3086[21:57:07] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3087[21:57:15] <davis> somiaj: i also checked my lsmod output. the driver is still loaded. I did not remove the driver though.
• 3088[21:57:15] *** Quits: schnootsie44 (~schnootsi@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
• 3089[21:57:15] *** Quits: bashes (~bashes@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
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• 3093[21:57:26] <A731> Tysm jelly
• 3094[21:57:55] <somiaj> davis: is that all? It appears that no module is claiming that device, maybe the usbid isn't being reconiginzed.
• 3095[21:58:04] *** Quits: A731 (2e43d507@replaced-ip) (Quit: A731)
• 3096[21:58:14] <davis> somiaj: that is the end of dmesg output
• 3097[21:58:21] <somiaj> davis: did you load the driver? You should see info about the driver taking control of the device, none of that info is there.
• 3098[21:58:53] <davis> the driver is loaded already
• 3099[21:58:58] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip)
• 3100[21:58:59] <somiaj> davis: for some reason the usb id (combination of the idVendor and idProduct on line 3) is not being reconginzed by your kernel and no module is actually taking control.
• 3101[21:59:03] <davis> i can rmmod driver and modprobe it
• 3102[21:59:10] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Quit: shibboleth)
• 3103[21:59:11] <davis> one second and I will do that
• 3104[21:59:27] *** Joins: schnootsie44 (~schnootsi@replaced-ip)
• 3105[21:59:29] *** Joins: fermion (~fermion@replaced-ip)
• 3106[21:59:29] <somiaj> davis: but the module doesn't appear to recongize that device as one it should take control of.
• 3107[21:59:37] *** Joins: bashes (~bashes@replaced-ip)
• 3108[21:59:37] *** Joins: bcs354 (~bcs@replaced-ip)
• 3109[22:00:03] <somiaj> (I once had a usb dongle I had to echo its usb id into /proc/something maybe /sys/something to force the kernel to take control of it, because it didn't regonize it
• 3110[22:00:45] *** Joins: Zelda (uid421916@replaced-ip)
• 3111[22:01:00] <davis> somiaj: replaced-url
• 3112[22:01:32] *** Quits: Trieste (~T@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 3113[22:01:40] <davis> somiaj: iwconfig output just shows the existing wifi adapter builtin to laptop
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• 3116[22:02:01] *** Quits: TjapTjipTjup (~tjup@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3117[22:02:04] <somiaj> davis: the module is not recongizing your dongle. Could be that you need a newer kernel (what kernel are you using)?
• 3118[22:02:25] <davis> somiaj: that is a good question. Here is what happened with kernel.
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• 3123[22:04:13] <davis> somiaj: I had not done a apt-get dist-upgrade in a while. I think i was on 4.9.0.8 or something. the driver was not in this kernel. I found a driver from github. It used dkms to build. I already had dkms, but when I tried to build it said, you need to install your kernel headers. I went to apt-cache search my headers and it was not present. an older and newer version existed.
• 3124[22:04:37] <somiaj> davis: what version of debian are you running?
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• 3126[22:04:58] <somiaj> davis: and what is the output of 'uname -a'
• 3127[22:05:05] <davis> somiaj: I did some more reading and I found that a newer kernel was available for debian stable. I did the dist-upgrade and now my kernel is 4.9.0-12-amd64
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• 3129[22:05:19] <davis> my cat /etc/debian_version did not seem to change though.
• 3130[22:05:30] <somiaj> (That is still basiclaly the 4.9 kernel -- which means you are running stretch?)
• 3131[22:05:30] <davis> it shows 9.12
• 3132[22:05:35] <greycat> you're not on debian stable, by the way.
• 3133[22:05:43] <davis> what am i on?
• 3134[22:05:48] <greycat> oldstable, stretch, Debian 9
• 3135[22:05:48] <dvs> oldstable
• 3136[22:06:02] *** jiggawattz is now known as memed
• 3137[22:06:12] <davis> ahh. the guide i read for doing an upgrade must me out of date.
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• 3139[22:06:35] <dvs> !release notes
• 3140[22:06:35] <dpkg> The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at replaced-url
• 3141[22:06:37] <greycat> the stretch 9.12 point release, including new kernel ABI version, came out last weekend, same time as the buster 10.3 point release, also with a kernel ABI bump
• 3142[22:06:39] <davis> greycat: hello friend. you have helped me a lot. /tip of hat to you
• 3143[22:06:39] <somiaj> yea, that is stretch, okay that is no oldstable. Anyways you have two basic options to get a newer kernel, the first is to grab the 4.19 kernel from stretch-backports (this newer kernel may just recongize your dongle and life can go on). The other option (which you may want to consider in the next 6 months before stretch looses security support) is to dist-upgrade from stretch to buster
• 3144[22:06:45] <somiaj> !stretch->buster
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• 3146[22:07:26] <davis> yes, dist-upgrade sounds like the thing to do. i did that already.
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• 3148[22:07:38] <davis> do i need to adjust my apt-sources file?
• 3149[22:07:43] <dvs> yes
• 3150[22:07:51] <somiaj> davis: sounds like you didn't update your sources.list, but unsure why dpkg didn't give us that factoid.
• 3151[22:07:56] <somiaj> anyways, read the release notes first
• 3152[22:08:00] <somiaj> !stretch->buster
• 3153[22:08:11] <davis> somiaj: I am a dummy.
• 3154[22:08:20] <davis> i don't try to hide it.
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• 3156[22:08:32] <davis> yes, it says stretch in the sources.list file
• 3157[22:08:37] <somiaj> hmm, are you ignoring me dpkg? anyways read the release notes, there is a whole chapter on upgrading from stretch.
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• 3159[22:08:59] <greycat> dpkg, stretch->buster
• 3160[22:08:59] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
• 3161[22:09:02] <davis> google debian release notes buster?
• 3162[22:09:05] <davis> ahh, that link
• 3163[22:09:07] <greycat> I think dpkg still has that bug with ! and ->
• 3164[22:09:07] <davis> many thanks
• 3165[22:09:24] <dvs> doesn't like C?
• 3166[22:09:43] <jelly> a dummy? Sure sound like a real boy
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• 3168[22:10:30] <davis> jelly: lol, i had a flashback of the commerical. you have potential. you have potential
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• 3171[22:12:37] <davis> so change all stretch to buster. apt-get update. apt-get dist-upgrade. apt-get full-update?
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• 3173[22:12:49] <dvs> nope
• 3174[22:12:53] <somiaj> davis: no read the release notes, then do what they tell you to
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• 3177[22:13:22] <somiaj> (the apt-get full-update is not a valid command and not needed)
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• 3179[22:13:43] <davis> it looks like it says use buster. in section 4.3.2
• 3180[22:13:46] <somiaj> but the release notes give some other advise about third party repos/software, and issues to be aware of before just doing that
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• 3182[22:14:36] <davis> yes i see the bit about making a log
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• 3228[22:48:58] <davis> thanks a bunch folks
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• 3270[23:15:11] <mtcdood> is there a headless IRC client or bot I can run that will log raw IRC messages to file and rotate them daily?
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• 3272[23:15:25] <mtcdood> I used to have one that worked and years later I can't remember what it was
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• 3275[23:18:27] <mason> mtcdood: I'm not aware of one, but you could write one easily enough, or run irssi inside screen or somesuch.
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• 3277[23:20:01] <mtcdood> yeah I know of a few clients that will do raw logging, but only to a single file
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• 3279[23:20:09] <mtcdood> don't know if they'd behave with logrotate or not
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• 3285[23:23:19] <mason> irssi will do per-channel and per-query logging. It seems to keep filehandles open, so I'm not sure how happy it would be about logrotate.
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• 3287[23:24:15] <mason> mtcdood: Ah: " You can make irssi automatically rotate the logs by adding date/time formats to the file name." But any more than this and #irssi would be a better place to check.
• 3288[23:24:25] <mason> that's from replaced-url
• 3289[23:24:39] <mtcdood> irssi doesn't log raw messages to file that way
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• 3291[23:25:00] <mason> Maybe you mean something by "raw" I'm not catching.
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• 3293[23:25:30] <mtcdood> it's the technical term
• 3294[23:25:31] <mason> If you don't want rendered messages, write a bot that logs in and dumps the raw IRC traffic.
• 3295[23:25:39] <mason> "technical"
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• 3297[23:25:54] <mtcdood> you can Google it if you really care, you clearly don't.
• 3298[23:26:18] <mason> That must be it. Have a lovely evening.
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• 3334[23:54:14] <tomboy64> i need some help with sources.list.d
• 3335[23:54:36] <tomboy64> i have a custom repository in there, deb-src replaced-url
• 3336[23:54:54] <tomboy64> oh scrap
• 3337[23:55:56] <tomboy64> nvm
• 3338[23:56:12] <tomboy64> src works without suitable arch
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