People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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1 [00:02:35] <ksk> yeay, fluxbox! the default debian menus do work over here ;)
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12 [00:12:41] <dmzpub> mmm looks like to add custom menus to things like kde, one could need to add stuff under ~/.local/share/applications/foobar.desktop
13 [00:13:22] <dmzpub> looks harder to automate and more vebose than fluxbox custom menus, but this could work
14 [00:14:00] <dmzpub> *verbose
15 [00:15:04] <dmzpub> still not sure howto structure this, asside of "categories".... no nested menus I think
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22 [00:20:35] <Guest3683> Hello i have a question regarding kernel upgrade, or guideline how to build custom kernel for NAS hardware QNAP TS-109
23 [00:20:58] <Guest3683> i stumbled upon this github page and was immidieatly replyed to ask here.
24 [00:21:09] <Guest3683> replaced-url
25 [00:21:19] <Guest3683> replaced-url
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28 [00:22:09] <Guest14607> replaced-url
29 [00:22:48] <Guest14607> Output from device currently running armel arch Debian 9.11 stretch. Please if anyone know's how i could compile custom kernel or upgrade it's kernel to a newer version i would be so thankful
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35 [00:28:22] <Guest14607> David Lechner who forked this project kernel-flash replaced-url
36 [00:28:59] <Guest14607> told me to ask you guys how i could compile kernel for QNAP TS-109 or how i could proceed downloading newer kernel armel architecture packages, and install it through that way.?
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46 [00:35:53] <petn-randall> Guest14607: Does running the stock kernel from Debian work for you?
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49 [00:38:54] <tramboliko> Hello everyone, I would like to get some advice on a very strange issue I'm getting with buster
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51 [00:39:09] <Guest14607> petn-randall: it does work yes, but i want to be assure that it can do release upgrade, and upgrades of package mirrors
52 [00:39:39] <Guest14607> petn-randall: i would actually like to experiment and develop a custom kernel for this machine, is that possible with the pre-requirements i attached to it?
53 [00:40:03] <Guest14607> i want it to perform as a minimal footprint fileserver, i guess NFS would be best performance wise, and ofc cifs shares.
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56 [00:41:12] <Guest14607> petn-randall: thank you for reply me, i was adviced by David Lechner
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58 [00:41:23] <Guest14607> petn-randall: replaced-url
59 [00:41:43] <petn-randall> Guest14607: Then I don't see a reason to compile your own kernel. You can do a release upgrade, and boot into the new kernel. If that fails, just select the old one upon booting.
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61 [00:42:46] <Guest14607> petn-randall: thank you so much. I will try a release upgrade right away. Should i do it by executing do-release upgrade -d ?
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64 [00:43:30] <petn-randall> Guest14607: That isn't a Debian command, so I can't say anything about it.
65 [00:43:40] <petn-randall> Guest14607: What OS are you running?
66 [00:44:13] <Guest14607> petn-randall: istributor ID: Debian
67 [00:44:13] <Guest14607> Description: Debian GNU/Linux 9.11 (stretch)
68 [00:44:13] <Guest14607> Release: 9.11
69 [00:44:13] <Guest14607> Codename: stretch
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71 [00:44:41] <Guest14607> petn-randall: i found this on Google, i guess it's the way to do it.? replaced-url
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73 [00:44:54] <Guest14607> but this is written amd64 architecture
74 [00:44:59] <petn-randall> Guest14607: Where does the command 'do-release' come from, then?
75 [00:45:14] <Guest14607> probably i don't want any AMD64 packages installed from apt package sources package mirrors.
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77 [00:46:09] <petn-randall> Yeah, because those are the release notes for amd64 (it says so in the URL). You'll have to read the release notes for your architecture.
78 [00:46:19] <tramboliko> So I installed buster a week ago and it ran perfectly until yesterday when WiFi stopped working, I have since reinstalled and have not been able to get wifi working again. The graphical installer connects to the internet without problems but when I reboot it does not work
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80 [00:46:44] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Do you have the firmware installed for the wifi device?
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82 [00:47:26] <Guest14607> petn-randall: do-release upgrade comes from the binary update-core in ubuntu but in Debian im not sure to be true.
83 [00:47:28] <tramboliko> I used the non-free live image to install
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87 [00:49:13] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Then it should install the firmware, too. But you might want to verify to be sure.
88 [00:49:13] <Guest14607> petn-randall: i will try apt-get -y update ; apt-get -y upgrade ; apt-get dist-upgrade
89 [00:49:35] <petn-randall> Guest14607: I think those are the instructions, but you should read the release notes and verify.
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92 [00:50:07] <coruja> Guest14607, for further reading (if i got you right above): replaced-url
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98 [00:51:38] <tramboliko> I seem to have the drivers yet it doesn't connect, it shows available connections though but it gets stuck on the interface setup step
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101 [00:53:58] <tramboliko> Also I disabled mac randomization since it seemed to help other users but the issue remains
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105 [00:55:44] <Guest14607> coruja: thank you, and i must politely ask
106 [00:56:10] <Guest14607> coruja: do you recommend me to replace stretch to buster within the file /etc/apt/sources.list
107 [00:56:36] <Guest14607> coruja: in other words ( # sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
108 [00:57:10] <coruja> Guest14607, as long as there are no strong reasons against, it's always recommended to run the current stable release
109 [00:57:50] <Guest14607> coruja: thank you so much for your reply
110 [00:58:09] <Guest14607> coruja: i want to make this QNAP TS-109 more efficient, to work more properly with the contents it is of.
111 [00:58:19] <coruja> Guest14607, but the stretch (=oldstable) release will be supported for still a while too
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115 [01:01:18] <tramboliko> I know that wifi issues are a dime a dozen but I really don't get how I pulled a week of smooth use to then have a problem that persists through formatting
116 [01:02:32] <tramboliko> Anything I could've done should be wiped out after a clean install correct?
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122 [01:04:36] <coruja> Guest14607, and yes, if you want to upgrade to buster, then substitute stretch by buster as you suggested, then apt update, apt dist-upgrade (and mind reading carefully what apt says before hitting enter, as always)
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125 [01:05:52] <petn-randall> tramboliko: How do the wifi issues show? Might not be software-related at all.
126 [01:06:07] <dvs> coruja, you forgot apt upgrade
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128 [01:06:49] <coruja> dvs, is that necessary? as far as i know it isn't (but good practice)
129 [01:07:04] <dvs> coruja, according to the release notes, yes
130 [01:07:18] <coruja> oh, ok
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133 [01:07:50] <coruja> Guest14607, then: apt update, apt upgrade, apt dist-upgrade
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135 [01:09:20] <tramboliko> petn-randall: The first boot after install it shows as connected yet I couldn't ping google or the router. After disconnecting it is no longer able to connect to the wifi again, on KDE it gets stuck the configuring interface step and then it just stops
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139 [01:10:30] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Have you checked the logs to it, and can you share the output?
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153 [01:13:15] <tramboliko> petn-randall: I had to format the drive but I can do a fresh install, will you be around in half an hour or so?
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184 [01:38:02] <wonderful> hello, people!
185 [01:38:13] <wonderful> one question!
186 [01:38:43] <Thedarkb> Sure, fire away :)
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190 [01:40:30] <wonderful> i have gmplib based programm, i read manual: "Counts of bits of a multi-precision number are represented in the C type mp_bitcnt_t. Currently this is always an unsigned long, but on some systems it will be an unsigned long long in the future. " , but i can set 0xe ffff ffff and it do something! is
191 [01:40:30] <wonderful> it wrong behavior?
192 [01:42:19] <wonderful> i do not know right or wrong it calculates but i'm waiting for result just now)
193 [01:43:07] <wonderful> may be author just forget to throw exception?
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198 [01:46:32] <wonderful> and second question: where to learn algorithms for long arithmetics, i wanna some experiments with calculations:)
199 [01:46:53] <wonderful> ?
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201 [01:48:12] <wonderful> Thedarkb, may be fire in ##math?
202 [01:48:36] <Thedarkb> I'm really not sure.
203 [01:48:51] <Thedarkb> ##programming might help you, too.
204 [01:49:12] <wonderful> thanks
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206 [01:49:43] <Thedarkb> I just got a telling off in there for abusing the C pre-processor :)
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208 [01:50:52] <wonderful> how's life? what's up?
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218 [01:52:33] <wonderful> smilling is cool, i see!
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220 [01:52:54] <Thedarkb> Not much.
221 [01:53:01] <Thedarkb> I'm working on a little 2D RPG.
222 [01:54:00] <wonderful> i'm gaming from time to time but was tied off
223 [01:54:35] <Thedarkb> I just split the main source into a few files because it was getting a bit cumbersome.
224 [01:56:16] <wonderful> sorry, my tongue is rude, my english is poor so we'll better silencing a little, bb!
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273 [02:36:56] <tramboliko> Greetings, I'm having a persistent wifi connection issue on my new buster install, I used the nonfree 10.2 live image and it was able to recognize the card and connect during the graphical install
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289 [02:45:49] <tramboliko> My wifi card worked perfectly for like a week, now I can't even ping at all even though it says it's connected
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292 [02:48:14] <petn-randall> tramboliko: So ... about those logs?
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299 [02:51:12] <tramboliko> petn-randall: Which logs do want to see?
300 [02:53:04] <petn-randall> tramboliko: /var/log/syslog when the connection fails. You can use replaced-url
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314 [03:01:41] <tramboliko> petn-randall: replaced-url
315 [03:02:49] <tramboliko> petn-randall: currently connected yet it is pretty much all lost packages
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325 [03:07:44] <ross`> I realise this is unsupported but if anyone has worked through this before I'd really appreeciate the help. I have a windows virtualbox host and a debian quest. It would be great if seamless mode would work or resizing from the virtualbox. I followed the instructions here but it's nopt working: replaced-url
326 [03:08:18] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Did you connect Ethernet after testing it?
327 [03:09:05] <petn-randall> ross`: Which part is not working? Install the virtualbox package?
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332 [03:10:25] <tramboliko> petn-randall: I'm using a wired connection that's working fine through usb, only wifi isn't working
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336 [03:11:25] <petn-randall> tramboliko: I'm asking because I can see in the logs that Ethernet is connected, which would take precedence over wifi.
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338 [03:12:08] <petn-randall> And timesyncd is only complaining about a timeout *after* Ethernet is connected.
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341 [03:16:41] <tramboliko> petn-randall: I wired it to update and troubleshoot since wifi wasn't working, right now it isn't wired and wifi is apparently connected but I get aping every hundred lost packets
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343 [03:17:25] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Do you have a good connection when you sit next to the AP?
344 [03:18:05] <petn-randall> like ~1m distance without obstacles?
345 [03:18:59] <ross`> petn-randall: the installation worked.
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347 [03:19:04] <ross`> It's just none of the fancy features are working.
348 [03:19:38] <tramboliko> petn-randall: Yes, other devices and os's connect with no issues
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352 [03:25:46] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Hmm, I can't find any firmware for it in any firmware package. You have a TP-Link device, right?
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356 [03:28:58] <tramboliko> petn-randall: It's an atheros network adapter
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374 [03:42:29] <petn-randall> tramboliko: Do you have firmware-atheros installed?
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382 [03:46:14] <qwazx> Hi. How can I check/see that the packages downloaded by 'sudo apt-get install something' are validated by some sort of gpg signature or something?
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392 [03:56:01] <DarwinElf> i'm trying to setup unattended-upgrades & apt-listchanges on Debian servers... I've done it on Debian-based distributions but on the real thing (which I hadn't used much since 1998 - '00) it seems /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades isn't well-documented and there's no webpage explaining clearly what options are (except pages that show an Ubuntu, different, version of that file)... I only want to install security updates and ones that will be
393 [03:56:01] <DarwinElf> stable. I don't understand what codename & archive & suite-based matching is...
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398 [04:02:51] <qwazx> does this mean that stable could get a security update that sid didn't get? "Sid exclusively gets security updates through its package maintainers. The Debian Security Team only maintains security updates for the current "stable" release. "
399 [04:03:11] <qwazx> quote from replaced-url
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409 [04:08:23] <tramboliko> petn-randall: Yes, the atheros firmware is already installed, it should be using the ath9k package
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414 [04:10:26] <petn-randall> tramboliko: I'm out of ideas then, sorry. :/
415 [04:11:27] <qwazx> what does this mean? unattended-upgrades? what program does that for me(presumably behind my back) ? "You may also want to disable or remove unattended-upgrades to be in control when package updates take place especially on unstable. "
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418 [04:12:02] <tramboliko> petn-randall: Alrighty, thank you anyways!
419 [04:13:16] <petn-randall> qwazx: `apt show unattended-upgrades`
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421 [04:14:30] <qwazx> thanks
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438 [04:30:46] <warsoul> how can i set a firewall to protect my connection
439 [04:30:58] <warsoul> got connected to another network with my home IP
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442 [04:31:58] <warsoul> and im getting +20 seconds lag
443 [04:31:58] <warsoul> :x
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453 [04:41:52] <warsoul> getting more than +30s lag
454 [04:41:53] <warsoul> omg
455 [04:43:39] <dvs> warsoul, replaced-url
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457 [04:47:02] <tharkun> warsoul: "how can i set a firewall to protect my connection" is vague, ambiguous and nonsensical. Explain in ubiquitous language what you want.
458 [04:47:48] <warsoul> tharkun i think im getting attacked
459 [04:48:02] <warsoul> because im getting lags more than +30s
460 [04:48:39] <tharkun> No you are not. You might be connected to a lousy network.
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462 [04:49:38] <warsoul> on all networks i am is the same thing
463 [04:49:44] <warsoul> different vps
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465 [04:50:50] <tharkun> read about iptables, iptables-save and iptables-restore. your friends might want to live in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d
466 [04:51:57] <tharkun> and /etc/iptables.up.rules are my favourite names for the ipv4 sets and ip6tables.up.rules is for the ipv6 ones.
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471 [04:53:53] <tharkun> IIRC there is a #netfilter channel on freenode.com that have very nice people helping out. And also IIRC iptables is beeing deprecated in favour of some new user space program that seems to do things better. Don't quote me on that one. I am not sure.
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475 [04:56:57] <tharkun> warsoul: replaced-url
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478 [05:02:12] <ross`> Like seamless
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480 [05:02:29] <ross`> oops
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498 [05:27:58] <sophy> wekcomr
499 [05:28:08] <sophy> 的森林里
500 [05:28:10] <sophy> 第三方的所
501 [05:28:16] <sophy> 第三方的酸酸酸酸酸酸酸酸搜索算法ds
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608 [07:57:29] <tangarora_> so.... what is the reason that debian enables the root account by default instead of insisting on you creating a separate user with sudo privs?
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611 [08:00:24] <rudi_s> tangarora_: I thought the default installer insists on a separate non-root user (and only the advanced installer permits only a root account).
612 [08:01:01] <rudi_s> But often you don't need a non-root user at all.
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631 [08:26:00] <ficklepickle> tangarora_: it's not clear in the installer, but if you don't enter a root password, it will not create the account and instead enable sudo. At least that is what I have heard.
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633 [08:27:29] <nyov> where do the binaries in the initramfs come from? (specifically the /bin/mount binary?)
634 [08:28:15] <nyov> are these bins all busybox copies?
635 [08:28:32] <nyov> nevermind... they are
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637 [08:28:51] <jm_> yeah /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/zz-busybox creates that I believe
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643 [08:32:14] <CrazyTux> hi, how long is this kernel supported?
644 [08:32:15] <nyov> why are those all copies, instead of symlinks? 691KB per binary. wut
645 [08:32:18] <CrazyTux> Debian 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-11-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux
646 [08:32:37] <jm_> they are hard links
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648 [08:33:06] <nyov> jm_: cpio supports hardlinks?
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650 [08:33:32] <jm_> CrazyTux: 5.3 kernel is EOL-ed already
651 [08:33:55] <CrazyTux> jm_, oh. is it so.
652 [08:34:07] <nyov> oh indeed. hardlinks. nice
653 [08:34:09] <jm_> CrazyTux: as far as upstream goes
654 [08:34:22] <CrazyTux> I will switch to some other version of kernel
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656 [08:34:31] <jm_> nyov: hmm good question, let's see if documentation has an answer
657 [08:34:32] <CrazyTux> Linux mx 5.3.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.3.9-2~bpo10+1 (2019-11-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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659 [08:34:54] <CrazyTux> jm_, I'm using mx linux 19, which is based on Debian stable.
660 [08:35:15] <CrazyTux> I installed this kernel from debian backports.
661 [08:35:18] <jm_> CrazyTux: we only support debian here, not any of derivatives
662 [08:36:01] <CrazyTux> jm_, kernel that is being used now is of this version. 5.3.0-0.bpo.2-amd64
663 [08:36:17] <CrazyTux> Is this also EOL-ed?
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665 [08:37:01] <jm_> yeah looks like cpio has support for links
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667 [08:37:33] <jm_> CrazyTux: hmm? I already said it is (5.3.18 is the latest upstream version)
668 [08:38:05] <CrazyTux> jm_, ok. I will switch to some other.
669 [08:38:57] <nyov> okay, now I'm stumped. Why can my XFS rootfs not be mounted by an older kernel initrd, when bin/mount inside is exactly the same as for the current kernel?
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672 [08:40:48] <nyov> this is just weird. initrd contents diff as the same, but older initrd mount fails with "invalid argument". must be the in-kernel xfs module I guess.
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674 [08:41:38] <rudi_s> Yeah, sounds like a kernel issue.
675 [08:42:08] <jm_> no more details in dmesg output?
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677 [08:42:58] <nyov> jm_: I don't think I saw anything. let me doublecheck
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680 [08:44:08] <jm_> at work we use centos for our virtual appliance and when upgrading from ver 7 to 8 we noticed some incompatible differences (older ver can't mount FS creates with new ver)
681 [08:44:18] <jm_> created*
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684 [08:44:42] <nyov> ah, I booted in recovery mode, now it says. Superblock has unknown incompatible features. dang, I kinda thought that must be it
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687 [08:45:42] <jm_> yeah that's the same as for us
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710 [09:01:31] <nyov> the actual message is: Superblock has unknown incompatible features (0x2) enabled.
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712 [09:01:41] <nyov> now if only I could figure out what the 0x2 refers to
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715 [09:02:32] <nyov> because some of these features can be disabled again
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775 [09:39:51] <DarwinElf> don't use snap
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779 [09:42:34] <dreamer> "just use flatpak"
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782 [09:43:01] <nyov> don't drink and drive
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784 [09:43:33] <nyov> obvious, no? :P
785 [09:43:34] <plantroon> with ifenslave bonding setup, is it possible to automatically make the faster adapter active in active-backup configuration?
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805 [09:51:32] <nyov> plantroon: why not? just set active_slave parameter to the faster device
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807 [09:52:51] <nyov> at least I think that should work
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814 [09:56:24] <plantroon> oh :D but is there any way to automatically determine the faster one ? :(
815 [09:58:22] <nyov> plantroon: maybe with some mii-tool scripting? mii-tool -v ethX
816 [09:58:39] <plantroon> yeah we have scripts in place already, I wanted to nuke them :D
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821 [10:00:22] <nyov> ...
822 [10:01:07] <nyov> well then your answer is here somewhere: replaced-url
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825 [10:02:21] <DarwinElf> i'm trying to setup unattended-upgrades & apt-listchanges on Debian servers... I've done it on Debian-based distributions but on the real thing (which I hadn't used much since 1998 - '00) it seems /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades isn't well-documented and there's no webpage explaining clearly what options are (except pages that show an Ubuntu, different, version of that file)... I only want to install security updates and ones that will be
826 [10:02:21] <DarwinElf> stable. I don't understand what codename & archive & suite-based matching is...
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828 [10:03:39] <jm_> /usr/share/doc/unattended-upgrades/README.md.gz is not good enough?
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831 [10:04:24] <jm_> according to that file what you want is the default
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840 [10:12:24] <Aebian> Greetings, I run debian on all of my servers beause I like it. I want to install Linux on my laptop too (encrypted). Would you recommend going for debian there as well? I'm currently not sure if I should pick another distro
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843 [10:14:40] <tarzeau> Aebian: if the software included is new enough for you, debian is just fine
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845 [10:16:06] <DarwinElf> i'm just here because I use it for some servers it was the cheapest oldest option... for desktops/laptops I use stuff even earlier... I don't mean the Devuan fork either, but POSIX-based operating systems (OSes) that never have run systemd and probably never will. Of course I don't think this channel/'room' is really the place to talk about those. Most people won't like what I use because they're not pretty old school who like the Unix/etc. style of
846 [10:16:07] <DarwinElf> doing things, without changes. People can ask me but it's not something I'd recommend unless you grew up with something like MS-DOS rather than Windows
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848 [10:16:56] <DarwinElf> Debian is also better for desktop than almost anything newer. A lot of people prefer derivatives where you get GUI but can still install Debian packages
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850 [10:17:05] <DarwinElf> i mean 'automatic GUI' (eww)
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852 [10:17:43] <han-solo> automatic GUI ?
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858 [10:19:52] <njka-> heh
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861 [10:21:48] <some54ithead> hi there
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866 [10:25:16] <Aebian> tarzeau: yeah should be fine, I mean in special cases I can always build from source if really, I guess I'll stick to debian then
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869 [10:25:28] <Aebian> thanks
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871 [10:27:14] <strongestAvenger> Hi all - noob question (sorry) If I uninstall virtualbox-dkms since I'm having issues with, will that also break my vm's? or is virtualbox-dkms merely a plugin to virtualbox? Thankssss
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874 [10:29:08] <jm_> virtualbox-dkms includes out of tree kernel modules needed to run VBox VM-s - if uninstalling it will also remove those modules, ...
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887 [10:35:51] <strongestAvenger> sure, but I can reinstall them?
888 [10:37:18] <jm_> you can always reinstall the package
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897 [10:44:40] <strongestAvenger> and what happens to the virtual disks?
898 [10:44:43] <strongestAvenger> and vm config file?
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901 [10:45:39] <jm_> nothing, they are unaffectted, just starting the VM will fail
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903 [10:46:11] <nyov> a package purge might remove them?
904 [10:46:24] <jm_> also, just removing and reinstalling that package is unlikely to fix your issues
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907 [10:47:01] <jm_> naah, vbox puts VM config and disks in ~ by default
908 [10:47:10] <nyov> ok
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910 [10:47:26] <strongestAvenger> thanks both for your replies, I will go ahead and try to fix this
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912 [10:47:44] <nyov> oooh, lookie here what I found replaced-url
913 [10:48:01] <nyov> RFP: fwts, dangit
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915 [10:48:45] <jm_> no problem
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920 [10:53:02] <strongestAvenger> so... obviously jm_ you were right, the purge and install of the package didnt solve my issue. It fails and tells me to look into: /var/lib/dkms/virtualbox/6.0.14/build/make.log. Which makes no sense to me, I see a whole lot of errors. Any tips?
921 [10:54:27] <jm_> strongestAvenger: put it on the pastebin (/msg dpkg paste), I will look at it in about 45 minutes if no one else can help until then
922 [10:54:43] <strongestAvenger> thankyou so much
923 [10:54:47] <nyov> ,virtualbox
924 [10:55:01] <nyov> err
925 [10:55:05] <nyov> ,v virtualbox
926 [10:55:06] <judd> Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.1.0-dfsg-3
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928 [10:55:31] <nyov> humm. most likely you need a newer kernel?
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930 [10:56:50] <strongestAvenger> replaced-url
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940 [11:01:55] <nyov> oops :)
941 [11:03:15] <nyov> strongestAvenger: your 5.4 parrot kernel is only supported as of VBox 6.1.0
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943 [11:03:33] <nyov> try a 5.3 kernel, or a newer vbox
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968 [11:22:41] <strongestAvenger> i have no problem with a newer vbox, is there a newer one for parrot?
969 [11:23:10] <towo`> !parrot
970 [11:23:10] <dpkg> Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on Freenode or the community pages replaced-url
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973 [11:24:30] <strongestAvenger> aight ;) thanks
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1005 [11:48:21] <jm_> strongestAvenger: like pointed out above, ask about parrot issues elsewhere, but as far as vbox compile issues with newer kernel (than those available at time of a particular vbox release) go, one can often find a patch to build with given kernel ...
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1025 [12:11:00] <AquaL1te> how come freeipa-server isn't in stable yet? replaced-url
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1029 [12:12:44] <nyov> replaced-url
1030 [12:12:51] <nyov> :D
1031 [12:14:02] <AquaL1te> nyov: fedora server it is then
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1033 [12:14:13] <nyov> ":D" because you actually linked to the tracker page which lists this issue
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1039 [12:18:02] <nyov> eh. I'd rather just grab the ubuntu package. but sure, why not fedora
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1075 [12:55:45] <davorin> good day (o;
1076 [12:56:02] <davorin> someone has an idea how to track down a network halt?
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1078 [12:56:27] <davorin> happened now today and yesterday on a machine with 10.2 and two ethernet interfaces...both are suddenly not reachable anymore...
1079 [12:56:41] <davorin> and see nothing in the logs after a reset...
1080 [12:57:00] <ksk> davorin: nothing in dmesg?
1081 [12:57:15] <davorin> nope...after reset anyway dmesg is gone...
1082 [12:57:20] <ksk> what does not reachable man though, do you have remote access? Can you debug the network in the "down" state from server side
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1084 [12:57:32] <ksk> mean*
1085 [12:57:42] <davorin> just not repsonding to pings anymore..either local LAN nor WAN
1086 [12:58:04] <ksk> If you have no remote access, you cannot actually tell if its a network problem, or something else (like the machine halted)
1087 [12:58:34] <davorin> well the machine is here at home..so i attached now monitor/keyboard...
1088 [12:58:34] <ksk> or, its just turned off, as far as we can tell ;)
1089 [12:58:35] <jm_> anything printed on console? (console blanking often gets in the way)
1090 [12:59:07] <ksk> ah okay. then you should start debugging the network on the machine, start with "can I reach my gateway" - and if not, check why (does layer2 work?)
1091 [12:59:11] <davorin> well...attached kb/screen after not bein respsonsive...but also didn't react on keystrokes...
1092 [12:59:26] <ksk> soo, its not a network problem at all? :>
1093 [12:59:33] <davorin> nope (o;
1094 [12:59:43] <davorin> is there a copy of the previous dmesg?
1095 [12:59:55] <davorin> or is it same as /var/log/messages?
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1097 [13:00:08] <ksk> in buster journalctl is not persistant I think. configure it, or configure (r)syslogd
1098 [13:00:16] <ksk> s/journalctl/journal/
1099 [13:00:52] <jm_> /var/log/kern.log or persistant journal as mentioned above, but that does not guarantee you will see the very last messages
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1101 [13:01:15] <davorin> hmm..how can iturn off blanking?
1102 [13:02:07] <jm_> check /etc/console-tools/config (I would also remove quiet kernel parameter)
1103 [13:02:15] <AquaL1te> nyov: freeipa is officially supported for fedora or RHEL and i already have a server running, with the fedora modularity you can have the perfect blend between new and old software. i won't mix distributions or add 3rd party repos, once you have to do that it's time to switch distro imho
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1113 [13:08:18] <davorin> hmm...no /etc/console-tools/...
1114 [13:08:26] <davorin> added a grub entry consoleblank=0
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1116 [13:10:11] <davorin> let's wait and see if it happens again tomorrow...might be some ubiquiti java deb package causing this...
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1119 [13:15:10] <colo-work> davorin, I have had this work for me years ago: replaced-url
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1121 [13:18:25] <jelly> AquaL1te: it always makes sense to use the best supported plaform; if you need a long running service that'd be RHEL then. They probably conveniently avoid mentioning CentOS as an option, verify whether that's supported as well. Fedora server does not sound like something with a long life.
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1124 [13:18:47] <jelly> judd: file /etc/console-tools
1125 [13:18:54] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with that file.
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1128 [13:19:16] <jelly> jm_: which debian release do you see that file in?
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1133 [13:20:44] <jm_> jelly: buster, it's from console-tools - I somehow remember this no longer gets installed by default, but this is an old install
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1139 [13:22:05] <jm_> ahh it's not even available anymore :)
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1142 [13:22:44] <jelly> ,v console-tools
1143 [13:22:45] <judd> No package named 'console-tools' was found in amd64.
1144 [13:23:03] <jelly> ,bug rm console-tools
1145 [13:23:07] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1147 [13:23:29] <jm_> haha this stuff is from 2011
1148 [13:23:48] <jm_> yeah just checked what the latest entry in its changelog file is
1149 [13:24:13] <jm_> at least my memory about it being obsolete matches
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1151 [13:25:28] <jm_> to my defense, I first tried to find a similar file in /etc/console-setup but cached_setup_terminal.sh (which probably has the same stuff in it) somehow went past me
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1154 [13:26:37] <krumelmonster> Hi. Is there a way to install a single package from testing? It's not a binary package and it's not in backports.
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1157 [13:27:16] <krumelmonster> (Of course, there is the obvious downloading the package and installting via dpkg but updates would be good, I guess?)
1158 [13:27:37] <ksk> krumelmonster: which package? but no, rather not recommended.
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1160 [13:27:44] <jm_> krumelmonster: in general don't do that, but if you want to try it, read about apt pinning, but stop as soon as more than that package gets involved
1161 [13:27:51] <krumelmonster> borgmatic (python)
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1163 [13:28:25] <ksk> the one in buster does not suite you?
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1165 [13:28:42] <ksk> ,v borgmatic
1166 [13:28:43] <judd> Package: borgmatic on amd64 -- buster: 1.2.11-1; bullseye: 1.4.8-3; sid: 1.4.8-3
1167 [13:28:44] <krumelmonster> no, it's too outdated for my configuration
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1174 [13:30:14] <ksk> I see. its dependencys look rather open (only need "some python3) - so could be okay.
1175 [13:30:16] <ksk> !apt pinning
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1177 [13:30:27] <ksk> !pinning
1178 [13:30:27] <dpkg> Pinning is a method to choose which version of a package to install when multiple versions are available from <sources.list>. Bugs are explained at replaced-url
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1180 [13:31:18] <jelly> krumelmonster: there are various ways, but don't do that. Make a local backport.
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1182 [13:32:07] <jelly> jm_: please avoid telling people to mix anything newer into stable, pinning won't save them
1183 [13:32:10] <jm_> ,checkbackport borgmatic
1184 [13:32:11] <judd> Backporting package borgmatic in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12).
1185 [13:32:35] <jm_> jelly: the warning at the end should work
1186 [13:32:59] <jelly> people ignore warnings
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1188 [13:33:15] <jelly> just... don't tell them it "might work"
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1190 [13:33:44] <ksk> thanks for pointing that out jelly, I will comply ;)
1191 [13:33:54] <jelly> because then they come back with a broken installation and we tell them to reinstall and have to laugh at them
1192 [13:34:28] <krumelmonster> I manually installed the testing .deb for now. Works great.
1193 [13:34:40] <ksk> krumelmonster: then, as building your own backport seems to not work, you might want to get the software "from source"? - there is a repo at github.
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1195 [13:34:54] <jelly> ,v debhelper
1196 [13:34:55] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 12.6.1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 12.7.3; sid: 12.7.3
1197 [13:34:59] <ksk> you would leave the debian supported ecosystem of course.
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1200 [13:36:00] <jelly> krumelmonster: that sometimes works for some packages. In general however it's TOO easy to make a mess
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1202 [13:36:18] <jelly> the sane way is to make a backport build
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1205 [13:36:58] <jelly> ,provides debhelper --release buster
1206 [13:36:59] <judd> Package debhelper in buster/amd64 provides: debhelper-compat (= 9), debhelper-compat (= 10), debhelper-compat (= 11), debhelper-compat (= 12), dh-sequence-dwz, dh-sequence-installinitramfs, dh-sequence-systemd.
1207 [13:37:26] <jelly> that's weird, Provides: debhelper-compat (= 12) but checkbackport does not find it
1208 [13:39:06] <jm_> maybe only backports versions provides =12, but provides bot command doesn't consider that?
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1210 [13:40:23] <krumelmonster> thanks everyone
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1221 [13:45:44] <krumelmonster> p.s.: Would be great to have this package in backports
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1240 [14:00:05] <petn-randall> krumelmonster: I'm using borgbackup, but I haven't considered using borgmatic yet. But it looks pretty good.
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1250 [14:04:52] <NetTerminalGene> ,v firefox-esr
1251 [14:04:54] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.2.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 68.2.0esr-1+b1; jessie-security: 68.3.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 68.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.3.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security:
1252 [14:04:55] <judd> 68.3.0esr-1~deb10u1; sid: 68.4.0esr-1
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1288 [14:30:50] <Chrys0pras3> Good morning. I was building a package from source, gave it the wrong version number with dch, and now I can't install it. Do I need to compile again, or can I still fix it?
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1291 [14:32:23] <petn-randall> Chrys0pras3: I'd just compile again.
1292 [14:32:53] <Chrys0pras3> It'll take 3h though
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1297 [14:33:56] <jelly> Chrys0pras3: you can repack the binary .deb and change the control file if you don't care about version number possibly being embedded somewhere in code
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1299 [14:35:20] <Chrys0pras3> jelly: you're right I think it may be embeded on the code, but I'll try thanks
1300 [14:35:28] <jelly> Chrys0pras3: dpkg-deb --unpack foo.deb tmpdir; dpkg-deb --control foo.deb tmpdir; $EDITOR tmpdir/DEBIAN/control; dpkg-deb -b tmpdir .
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1302 [14:35:53] <jelly> er, sorry, it's --extract not --unpack
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1304 [14:36:17] <jelly> welp
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1306 [14:36:30] <jelly> Chrys0pras3: dpkg-deb --extract foo.deb tmpdir; dpkg-deb --control foo.deb tmpdir/DEBIAN; $EDITOR tmpdir/DEBIAN/control; dpkg-deb -b tmpdir .
1307 [14:36:38] <edgars> hello
1308 [14:36:39] * jelly forgot
1309 [14:37:08] * jelly actually has a shell script for that
1310 [14:37:11] <AquaL1te> jelly: fedora server has indeed a 6 month release cycle, but as mentioned, the modularity feature in fedora makes it possible to stick to certain packages longer. sort of LTS for packages that are modular in your packaging system, you can choose which release stream you want. i've been using fedora server for a while, it works pretty well. but my first choice was debian though, but that's not possible as
1311 [14:37:17] <AquaL1te> it seems.
1312 [14:37:39] <edgars> how can i push hostname to linux over pxe install?
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1314 [14:38:01] <jelly> AquaL1te: modularity is VERY similar to mixing and matching different debian releases, and has similar issues
1315 [14:38:21] <elwisp> edgars: fetch it from dns and set it that way during bootstrap script
1316 [14:38:23] <jelly> admittedly I've only read about it on lwn :-)
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1318 [14:38:29] <elwisp> or however you do config management
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1321 [14:39:22] <ksk> edgars: you can also pass on variables via the isolinux commandline
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1327 [14:43:10] <edgars> elwisp: toocomplicated
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1329 [14:43:19] <edgars> ksk: how? i cant find :/
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1342 [14:51:50] <AquaL1te> jelly: similar, but done better IMHO. it's still managed as one distribution release. i've seen no issues.
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1344 [14:52:53] <Chrys0pras3> jelly: thanks it worked
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1346 [14:53:59] <ksk> edgars: replaced-url
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1348 [14:54:42] <ksk> you just pass them to the kernel commandline, and then parse them as needed.
1349 [14:55:44] <ksk> not sure if that is the 2020 approach though, Id recommend: have the server read its serial number, and query an internal service with that for variables you want it to have (like hostname, IP, role)
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1351 [14:57:55] <edgars> ohh my, 2020 and so complicated :/
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1353 [14:58:14] <edgars> thanks
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1355 [14:58:39] <ksk> not really complicated imho. if you want to fully automate it, you will need $stack anyways. and if you are fine with setting it manually, you do that..
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1367 [15:02:27] <ksk> syslinux itself is rather 1990 than 2020 of course ;)
1368 [15:02:51] <edgars> well, but its more or less simple and usable :)
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1389 [15:18:35] <CCTRIP> hi all
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1421 [15:44:42] <openbsdtai123> how to to "screen -d -m startx " with tmux3
1422 [15:44:53] <openbsdtai123> tmux
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1435 [15:53:03] <krumelmonster> petn-randall: I run it nightly with a systemd timer and I find it to be *very* convenient but I haven't ever tried making automated backups with borg only so I'm not sure if there are great advantages really. Note that many borgmatic features documented online aren't available with the version in buster.
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1439 [15:54:17] <krumelmonster> and the stable package, unlike testing, comes without a manpage.
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1443 [15:56:38] <uso> Should a Debian 10 armhf image be installable on a beaglebone black? When I try it the installation aborts immediately after start and reboots me into the start screen.
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1445 [15:57:38] <EdePopede> openbsdtai123: why not asking in #tmux how $something works in their software?
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1449 [16:03:02] <borrougagnou> Hello, I have a question, I looking for in Debian Buster how can I change my default FileManager by another ?
1450 [16:03:28] <borrougagnou> *another one
1451 [16:04:50] <EdePopede> borrougagnou: that's a desktop related thing, probably it is managed by xdg
1452 [16:05:08] <borrougagnou> xdg ? okay I check that !
1453 [16:06:44] <EdePopede> i just used the menu and it runs > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/exo-1/exo-helper-1 --launch TerminalEmulator
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1456 [16:07:40] <EdePopede> its --help has a list of helpers it manages: mail, browser, terminal, filemanager
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1458 [16:08:06] <borrougagnou> --help with xdg-mime ?
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1460 [16:08:18] <Sanderei> Hi, i have some trouble with x11 flickering
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1462 [16:08:56] <EdePopede> no, that exo thing. it is xfce's tool which in turn uses xdg. had to hunt some weird behaviour in mc some day.
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1464 [16:09:10] <borrougagnou> ha
1465 [16:09:17] <EdePopede> borrougagnou: your DE should have a dialog to change the default applications
1466 [16:09:34] <borrougagnou> ha ! I see
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1468 [16:10:40] <EdePopede> gah... preferred applications in xfce. found it on the 3rd try.
1469 [16:11:01] <borrougagnou> its weird because in XFCE manager I see "thunar" by default...
1470 [16:11:26] <EdePopede> same here, replaced it by double commander
1471 [16:11:37] <borrougagnou> so I try to do that, maybe it change something: `xdg-mime default thunar.desktop inode/directory`
1472 [16:11:40] <EdePopede> not that i'd really use it... xterm+mc is still the best
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1475 [16:12:36] <EdePopede> btw, that's something that really surprised me: /usr/bin/xdg-mime: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
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1484 [16:14:17] <borrougagnou> xdg-mime apparently use "mimeapps.list" but I don't have this file in "~/.local/share/applications" directory
1485 [16:14:36] <eho> echo
1486 [16:15:02] <borrougagnou> but I found another one in "~/.config/mimeapps.list"
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1491 [16:16:48] <EdePopede> i only have some entries for qpdfview in it
1492 [16:16:56] <openbsdtai123> I usually use rox-filer, which is faster and with much less dependencies.
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1494 [16:17:22] <EdePopede> which are doubled in the one in .config which is much bigger
1495 [16:17:26] <karlpinc> Is there any hope of (eventually) seeing a libreoffice bug fixed if I file something in the debian bug tracking system or should I look into reporting upstream?
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1500 [16:18:21] <annadane> where do people store their private keys, i assume not in home
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1503 [16:18:41] <greycat> If it's ssh keys, they're in ~/.ssh/ typically.
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1505 [16:19:33] <karlpinc> annadane: Yeah. I store them in ~/.ssh
1506 [16:19:40] <annadane> just wondered what people's philosophy is as home can be compromised
1507 [16:19:54] <greycat> If you mean GNUPG keys, then I don't know any more. I stopped paying attention to PGP/GPG a while ago.
1508 [16:20:10] <greycat> What makes you say "home can be compromised"?
1509 [16:20:27] <annadane> unprivileged users being able to write to home
1510 [16:20:36] <borrougagnou> EdePopede > okay I found something, you check your default file manager just use: `exo-open --launch FileManager` to launch your default file manager
1511 [16:20:36] <greycat> to their *own* home, only
1512 [16:20:45] <greycat> if you trash your own home, you get what you deserve
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1514 [16:21:11] <karlpinc> annadane: Note that you should not have more than one (really) key. (although you might have a rsa key for reaching older systems and a ecdsa key for reaching newer ones, etc.) Sometimes there's a special key you might use just for a particular purpose (triggering a command= in a remote system's ~/.ssh/authorized_keys file). But mostly you want one identity.
1515 [16:21:51] <annadane> okay, so not as dire as i imagined it
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1517 [16:22:33] <borrougagnou> now I go because I really need to reboot my computer and continu my work
1518 [16:22:36] <karlpinc> annadane: I do keep a backup on a couple of flash drives kept at remote locations.
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1520 [16:22:47] <borrougagnou> thank you EdePopede
1521 [16:22:48] <tachikomas> avoid backup on flashdrive
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1524 [16:23:26] <karlpinc> tachikomas: You have to plug flash drives in every now and again or they forget. Otherwise, why not?
1525 [16:24:13] <karlpinc> (In an emergency flash drives microwave just as well as cds/dvds. :-)
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1537 [16:31:52] <Sanderei> can someone help me with x11?
1538 [16:31:56] <Sanderei> it flickers
1539 [16:32:27] <Logg> try setting the monitor to a different resolution -- maybe you are using an unsupported mode Sanderei
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1542 [16:33:06] <Sanderei> can't do that because it's on a chromebook
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1544 [16:33:29] <Logg> if you are using X on debian, then you can "apt install xrandr" and set the mode with that tool
1545 [16:33:31] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1546 [16:33:41] <Logg> or use the tools included with your desktop environment
1547 [16:33:50] <Sanderei> ok wait
1548 [16:34:00] <Sanderei> idk what my desktop environment is
1549 [16:34:09] <Logg> good luck to you. :-)
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1552 [16:34:36] <Sanderei> it has no candidate
1553 [16:34:49] <Logg> apt update && apt install xrandr
1554 [16:34:57] <Akuw> if i copy passwd and shadow file to another machine can i login?
1555 [16:35:02] <Habbie> it's in x11-xserver-utils
1556 [16:35:22] <karlpinc> Sanderei: You've done the "install linux on a chromebook" thing and are running chrome with linux userspace?
1557 [16:35:35] <Sanderei> Habbie that's what I get
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1559 [16:36:23] <Sanderei> x11-server-utils is manually installed
1560 [16:36:32] <Sanderei> and what next
1561 [16:36:42] <karlpinc> Akuw: All you really need is to copy the password hash into one of the user lines on the other system's passwd and shadow file.
1562 [16:37:26] <Sanderei> karlpinc yeah in the settings of chrome os
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1564 [16:37:51] <Sanderei> karlpinc ??
1565 [16:37:54] <karlpinc> Sanderei: Neat. I did that, but it just seemed to work.
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1567 [16:38:38] <Sanderei> yeah, but some packages like the android developer tool and kdenlive flicker really much
1568 [16:38:39] <karlpinc> Akuw: If you copy the whole files and not the group and gshadow files I don't know what happens if your user has a group that does not exist.
1569 [16:38:44] <Sanderei> firefox a bit
1570 [16:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1520
1571 [16:39:13] <karlpinc> Sanderei: I've only really used the xterm.
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1573 [16:39:41] <Sanderei> Do you have a chromebook right there up and running?
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1575 [16:39:50] <Akuw> done
1576 [16:40:04] <Akuw> i copied the password line in shadow
1577 [16:40:06] <karlpinc> Sanderei: It's shut down now. It's around somewhere.
1578 [16:40:11] <Akuw> can login using ssh
1579 [16:40:19] <Sanderei> karlpinc install kdenlive and see what happens
1580 [16:40:29] <Sanderei> maybe you can see what the problem is
1581 [16:40:44] <karlpinc> Sanderei: Can't. I've got other fish to fry.
1582 [16:41:02] <Sanderei> and that is??
1583 [16:41:12] <Sanderei> other fish??
1584 [16:41:22] <Sanderei> to fry??
1585 [16:41:37] <Sanderei> on a chromebook while youtube is playing??
1586 [16:41:50] <joepublic> I love me some fried fish.
1587 [16:42:24] <joepublic> I love kdenlive too, for that matter
1588 [16:43:23] <karlpinc> Sanderei: It's an idiom meaning "I've other things to do."
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1593 [16:44:09] <joepublic> That person appears to no longer be here
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1595 [16:44:26] <Sanderei> sorry had internet problems
1596 [16:44:42] <Sanderei> but what can I do against flickering?
1597 [16:44:45] <greycat> stop frying seafood on your router
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1599 [16:44:56] <dvs> heh
1600 [16:45:30] <joepublic> it's wasted heat otherwise
1601 [16:45:40] <Sanderei> I fried 7 cats and 3 dogs above my router and it worked pretty well. why stopping if it works fine? :p
1602 [16:46:13] <Logg> uhhh
1603 [16:46:23] <chexier> My router is hotter than boiling water.
1604 [16:46:28] <joepublic> yeah my cat used to sleep on my router and overheat it, and she would actually push the power cord out and kill Internet; had to relocate the router
1605 [16:46:35] <Sanderei> karlpinc what can I do against flickering on linux on chromebook? (debian 9)
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1608 [16:46:51] <karlpinc> Looks like the libreoffice maintainers really want bugs reported upstream....
1609 [16:46:53] <Sanderei> joepublic noice
1610 [16:47:16] <joepublic> Trying to ssh in and failing almost always meant "cat problems"
1611 [16:47:18] <Sanderei> Libreoffice works almost fine
1612 [16:47:29] <karlpinc> Sanderei: Other folks gave you some suggestions, try following those.
1613 [16:48:03] <Sanderei> I don't really fry of course
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1615 [16:48:14] <joepublic> just provide cozy heat. I get it.
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1618 [16:48:39] <Sanderei> karlpinc I was gone for a bit cause of bad connection so what did they say of that
1619 [16:48:42] <Logg> Sanderei, do something cool with xrandr. add a supported mode, try 800x600
1620 [16:49:04] *** Quits: krumelmonster (~jo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
1621 [16:49:28] <Sanderei> Oh wait, there is a function for low graphics if I start an application
1622 [16:49:44] <Logg> there are probably many functions in the program, yes.
1623 [16:50:15] <Sanderei> I tried, but it doesn't work
1624 [16:51:35] <karlpinc> Gurr. What's the recommended way to install libreoffice from upstream so I can report a bug. (Without breaking my stock debian install.) flatpack? Or a debootstrap chroot enviornment? I don't know anything about flatpack.
1625 [16:51:56] <Logg> I think you're going to want to compile from source, karlpinc
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1627 [16:52:07] <Sanderei> just install it with sudo apt install libreoffice
1628 [16:52:17] <Logg> that is not upstream, Sanderei
1629 [16:52:19] <greycat> upstream means "NOT the debian package"
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1632 [16:52:37] <Sanderei> download it from the site
1633 [16:52:58] <Sanderei> cd to the directory where you downloaded it
1634 [16:53:29] <karlpinc> Logg: Why do you say that? (They've a dev version available in flatpak....)
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1637 [16:53:44] <Sanderei> do sudo dpkg-install <package name> or maybe sudo apt install <package name>
1638 [16:54:29] <greycat> Sanderei: he does NOT want to use a Debian package of it. He wants to use the upstream NON-PACKAGED version because apparently the Debian support team has rejected his bug report and he wants to bypass them.
1639 [16:54:50] <Sanderei> idk what to do then
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1641 [16:55:03] <Sanderei> is it an appimage?
1642 [16:55:06] <karlpinc> greycat: If you try to report a libreoffice bug it gives you a page + of instructions, some of which say "see if the problem is in upstream".
1643 [16:55:13] *** Quits: zamuro (~Samantha@replaced-ip ) (Quit: [IRSSI])
1644 [16:55:17] <Logg> I don't know much about flatpak, but source code will the latest release & you will know the origin (i.e... not outdated by a month in flatpak). When testing upstream software for bugs, you'd want to use the bleeding edge of development so that you know that the bug hasn't been fixed yet.
1645 [16:55:25] <Sanderei> karlpinc is it an appimage
1646 [16:56:22] <nyov> I didn't recall rebuilding the debian kernel package requires 160 build-deps. wut
1647 [16:56:29] <karlpinc> Logg: I get it about the bleeding edge. But compiling's a pain. I think I'm going to go take this up with #libreoffice (or the like) and see what they say.
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1649 [16:56:48] <mmillet> hello
1650 [16:56:48] <Logg> OK good luck karlpinc
1651 [16:56:56] <karlpinc> Sanderei: apt show flatpak
1652 [16:57:28] <mmillet> I have some trouble with authentication agent or something like that
1653 [16:57:49] *** Quits: pamaury (~pamaury@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1654 [16:58:10] <mmillet> here's the case: I have a ssh key that I use to connect to a gitlab repository, and I'd like it to be forwarded when I ssh into another host (using ssh -A)
1655 [16:58:30] *** Quits: davorin (~klingler@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1656 [16:58:35] <Sanderei> demo of flatpak with spotify: sudo flatpak install flathub com.spotify.Client
1657 [16:58:55] <Sanderei> karlpinc
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1661 [16:58:57] <mmillet> I think this works when done in Gnome (debian Buster), but seems broken when I use XFCE as a DE
1662 [16:58:59] <greycat> mmillet: there's a thing called "agent forwarding" but I've been told that it's a security risk if the intermediate host isn't fully trusted
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1665 [16:59:35] <mmillet> greycat, this is all in a corporate environment, so that's not the issue here
1666 [16:59:48] <Sanderei> karlpinc demo of spotify and apply this with libreoffice: sudo flatpak install flathub com.spotify.Client
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1668 [17:00:27] <Sanderei> can someone help me with setting xrandr to the right settings??
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1670 [17:00:36] <mmillet> (also I had to setup a specific .ssh/config file to attach the key to the gitlab host, which was not needed in Gnome)
1671 [17:00:41] <greycat> mmillet: ok, then look into agent forwarding; #openssh might be more help here
1672 [17:01:01] <mmillet> well I think the trouble is that I lack the agent
1673 [17:01:13] <Sanderei> my current settings for xrandr: Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192XWAYLAND0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 508mm x 285mm 1920x1080 59.96*+
1674 [17:02:01] <barbossa> Hi! I want to write a post-image.sh script for change the config.txt file. I have modified the board/raspberrypi3/post-image.sh but after make I obtain a Permission denied... An idea ?
1675 [17:02:15] <greycat> yes, you must use an ssh-agent before you can set up agent forwarding
1676 [17:03:04] <Logg> Sanderei, you are using Wayland, you are not using X.
1677 [17:03:10] <mmillet> greycat, like GNOME Keyring SSH agent ?
1678 [17:03:26] <mmillet> I just realised it was not started automatically, that might be the issue...
1679 [17:03:48] <greycat> I don't know much about GNOME.
1680 [17:04:11] <Habbie> mmillet, yes, on my debian gnome desktop, there's an ssh-agent running from the keyring
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1682 [17:04:30] <barbossa> is it the same agent when we generate ssh key from shell ?
1683 [17:04:45] <mmillet> hmm I'll try to restart my session with the program autostarting
1684 [17:04:47] <greycat> keys are separate from agents
1685 [17:04:55] <Sanderei> karlpinc did it work or do you have the answer already?
1686 [17:04:58] <mmillet> thanks Habbie and greycat
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1691 [17:05:24] <barbossa> Sorry i don t understand why I should use ssh agent for doing make
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1694 [17:06:03] <barbossa> I don t use ssh connection when i generate the image from BR
1695 [17:06:23] <greycat> the discussion of ssh agents was for millet's question
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1697 [17:06:38] <barbossa> Oh sorry ^^
1698 [17:06:58] <Sanderei> karlpinc did it work? (sorry bad internet)
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1701 [17:07:51] <Sanderei> can someone help me with set xrandr?
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1708 [17:12:34] <joepublic> what do you want to set
1709 [17:12:50] <greycat> they vanished right after asking
1710 [17:12:56] <mmillet> OK I solved my problem: I had to execute "ssh-add ~/.ssh/mykey", then everything went ok
1711 [17:13:34] <greycat> if your key has a nonstandard name like "mykey", you may have to re-add that every time you restart the agent, which may be every time you reboot, or every time you login
1712 [17:14:02] <greycat> (and if the key has a passphrase, which it *SHOULD* have, then you'd need to re-add it by re-typing the passphrase each time, anyway)
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1717 [17:16:01] <mmillet> oh ok
1718 [17:16:13] <mmillet> well I don't have a passphrase
1719 [17:16:34] <greycat> in that case, simply scripting your ssh-add command as part of your login may be sufficient
1720 [17:16:52] <greycat> but you said it's a GNOME login, so ... I might not be able to advise you on that, much
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1723 [17:18:41] <Guest95571> Cc
1724 [17:19:11] <nyov> How can I fix this build-error on the debian kernel source? replaced-url
1725 [17:19:11] <mmillet> thank you greycat, i'll just add the command to my shell
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1730 [17:22:19] <tomreyn> bug 931890
1731 [17:22:32] <tomreyn> nyov: ^ replaced-url
1732 [17:22:33] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1739 [17:25:42] <nyov> tomreyn: ah okay. so I need to set CONFIG_SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYS = ""
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1743 [17:26:26] <tomreyn> nyov: looks like.
1744 [17:26:36] <nyov> only I don't know where that option is hiding... hehe. yet.
1745 [17:26:59] <tomreyn> kernel config
1746 [17:27:18] <nyov> yeah, I mean in the menuconfig
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1748 [17:27:34] <greycat> you could always exit from menuconfig, edit the config file by hand, then go back into menuconfig...?
1749 [17:27:38] <nyov> oh well, editing files never hurt anyone
1750 [17:27:44] <nyov> greycat: done :p
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1753 [17:32:00] <greycat> I haven't built a kernel in a LONG time, but I think most people these days gave up on the interactive config choices, and just use "make oldconfig" with a hand-edited config file
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1761 [17:35:04] <ctcx> From ntpd or chrony, is there a generally preferred one to use for time sync in Debian?
1762 [17:36:38] <tomreyn> i'd go with chrony or systemd-timesync (but you didn't mention this one, possibly on purpose).
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1765 [17:38:20] <ctcx> Because I didn't know about it until now
1766 [17:38:33] <ctcx> In your case, why chrony over ntpd?
1767 [17:39:02] <greycat> there are at least four choices currently: ntp, chrony, openntpd, and systemd-timesyncd
1768 [17:39:11] <jelly> chrony has historically dealt better with machines that are not online 24/7/365
1769 [17:39:30] <tomreyn> chrony is the smaller and younger codebase with similar functionality.
1770 [17:39:33] <barbossa> I want add a post-build script but I have the error: impossible to open the temporary file /etc/ssh/sed1H9pLe: Permission denied
1771 [17:39:43] <barbossa> I don't understand this error
1772 [17:40:13] <jelly> barbossa: what's a "post-build" script and where/how exactly do you start it?
1773 [17:40:20] <tomreyn> (and better code, from what i read)
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1775 [17:41:00] <jelly> tomreyn: oh right, timesyncd is a NIH written by people who don't usually write ntp code, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole
1776 [17:41:23] <jelly> might be a-okay for workstations or laptops and such
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1779 [17:42:25] <greycat> for most people, the "systemd-" part of the name should be sufficient warning
1780 [17:42:42] <jelly> some components named like that are fine, others, not so much
1781 [17:43:04] <jelly> udev was basically just imported into systemd, it's still the same thing and not magically ruined
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1784 [17:43:52] <jelly> but their resolver? *shudder*
1785 [17:44:35] <greycat> yeah, I would *never* use systemd's timesyncd or resolved
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1788 [17:45:33] <jelly> and hostnamectl / nss_myhostname is a good idea, but the implementation and custom nss module... just why
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1790 [17:46:31] <jelly> (I know why, because someone wants to have systems with read-only static /etc and / that still work)
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1806 [18:02:09] <b1ack0p> hi
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1823 [18:17:49] <HoloIRCUser> Hello.
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1826 [18:18:52] <HoloIRCUser> I pulled my hdd out of my system, & the OS switched to gnome 2. I put my hdd back in my other system & it's still gnome 2.
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1830 [18:19:34] <Sanderei> hi, can someone help me with x11 flickering>
1831 [18:19:36] <Sanderei> ?
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1833 [18:20:50] <greycat> I'd be more concerned with Internet flickering, if I were you.
1834 [18:21:08] <NetEcho> hey folks I'm doing an install in a VM of debian buster and every debian mirror I pick is coming up as "Bad archive mirror"
1835 [18:21:11] <Sanderei> .
1836 [18:21:41] <diogenes_> greycat, what is internet flickering?
1837 [18:22:02] <greycat> 11:06 Sanderei> karlpinc did it work? (sorry bad internet)
1838 [18:22:07] <greycat> 11:07 Sanderei> can someone help me with set xrandr?
1839 [18:22:09] <greycat> 11:08 = Sanderei [5353fab2@83-83-250-178.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl] quit
1840 [18:22:14] <NetEcho> replaced-url
1841 [18:22:17] <diogenes_> lol that's true
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1844 [18:23:20] <Sanderei> greycat In the netherlands we have 2 great internet providers and they are actually bad
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1847 [18:24:22] <spacebug^> so... not so great then? :)
1848 [18:25:03] *** Quits: Marqeaux (~Marqeaux@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ik ben weg! Tot ziens allemaal!)
1849 [18:25:14] <Sanderei> greycat I have 2 routers and around 10 devices connected per router
1850 [18:25:33] <Sanderei> spacebug^ yes
1851 [18:25:45] <Sanderei> anyone Dutch here
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1855 [18:25:55] <Sanderei> or belgian
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1857 [18:26:07] <NetEcho> hmm apparently it was a dns issue
1858 [18:26:20] <Sanderei> from me?
1859 [18:26:30] <Sanderei> my chromebook sucks
1860 [18:26:46] <Sanderei> but other devices work correctly
1861 [18:27:10] <Sanderei> But I have 5 Wi-Fi channels for myself
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1863 [18:28:31] <Sanderei> greycat
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1865 [18:28:52] <jhutchins_wk> HoloIRCUser: 1) Gnome is a Desktop Environment, not an OS. 2) What DE were you using before it "switched to gnome"?
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1867 [18:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1500
1868 [18:29:07] <greycat> 11:12 joepublic> what do you want to set
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1870 [18:29:09] <greycat> 11:12 greycat> they vanished right after asking
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1873 [18:29:45] <joepublic> involving xrandr as I recall
1874 [18:29:54] <Sanderei> @greycat do you now solves for wayland x11
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1876 [18:30:14] <greycat> Sanderei: the question was, what do you want to do with xrandr?
1877 [18:30:22] <joepublic> I am pretty sure all chromebooks suck as opposed to a more full-featured computer. It's one of the design requirements to keep costs low.
1878 [18:32:22] <Sanderei> greycat just solve the bad x11 problems, like if you start kdenlive the blocks start blinking
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1882 [18:33:00] <Sanderei> joepublic this chromebook costs around 800 euros
1883 [18:33:12] <joepublic> oh. pardon my error.
1884 [18:33:19] <greycat> so your question isn't really "how do I perform specific thing abc with xrandr" so much as "heeeelpppp meeeee"
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1886 [18:33:47] <Sanderei> I know how to set resolutions
1887 [18:33:57] <Sanderei> but that's everything
1888 [18:34:08] <joepublic> Sanderei, could you perhaps pastebin the output of xrandr
1889 [18:35:07] <Sanderei> greycat if you can solve that i can launch x11 problems correctly, so that I can see what's on my screen
1890 [18:35:29] <Sanderei> joepublic but then I have no screen
1891 [18:35:42] <greycat> what
1892 [18:35:48] <joepublic> I don't quite understand that.
1893 [18:36:09] <greycat> Maybe you should go back to the beginning and describe the problem.
1894 [18:36:20] <Sanderei> Can I send pictures to you greycat
1895 [18:36:32] <joepublic> I am asking you to, while kdenlive is flickering away, to open a terminal window and pastebin what xrandr says (no options, just xrandr | pastebinit )
1896 [18:36:33] <greycat> How would "flickering" show up in a static photo?
1897 [18:37:27] <Sanderei> joepublic if I pastebin my output, how do I have a normal x11 screen then
1898 [18:37:45] <joepublic> using the process that I described above.
1899 [18:37:50] <greycat> The objective is for joepublic (or someone, anyone) to READ your pasted output and look for problems.
1900 [18:37:51] <Sanderei> greycat because it's almost black
1901 [18:37:51] <HoloIRCUser> jhutchins_wk, I'm not sure what a DE is, though I plugged my hdd into an older system, & when I plugged the hdd back to my newer system, the OS booted with gnome2 instead of gnome3 settings
1902 [18:38:12] <greycat> HoloIRCUser: Desktop Environment
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1906 [18:38:51] <joepublic> using a program such as [xterm rxterm mate-terminal gnome-terminal konsole lxterminal etc.]
1907 [18:39:34] <Sanderei> I think I did something wrong because I can't startx anymore
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1909 [18:40:30] <joepublic> So, the problem at this point goes deeper than 'kdenlive flickers' i guess
1910 [18:41:00] <Sanderei> I did something wrong, now I'm reinstalling linux
1911 [18:41:16] <joepublic> makes sense.
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1913 [18:41:36] <Sanderei> But even if I reinstall linux it stays
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1915 [18:42:11] <Sanderei> one moment, reinstalled linux
1916 [18:42:56] <Sanderei> I understanded pastebin wrong joepublic sorry
1917 [18:43:05] <joepublic> no problem.
1918 [18:43:20] <Sanderei> Cause i thought of the trashbin
1919 [18:43:27] <HoloIRCUser> The System Settings > Details still shows Gnome 3.4.2, though it looks like Gnome 2 Settings, with drop down menus, etc.
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1921 [18:44:36] <Sanderei> started the terminal
1922 [18:44:56] <greycat> xrandr 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
1923 [18:45:19] <greycat> or your preferred pasting alternative, if you don't like, or can't access, that one
1924 [18:45:21] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: when loggin in, did you by chance choose "GNOME Classic" instead oj just "GNOME" ?
1925 [18:45:22] <Sanderei> But still can't startx
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1927 [18:45:25] <greycat> ...
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1929 [18:46:18] <HoloIRCUser> space bug, I didn't choose it, though the other system said it couldn't utilize gnome3 settings.
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1931 [18:47:06] <greycat> Ahhh, so the other system MODIFIED something on your hard disk.
1932 [18:47:21] <HoloIRCUser> Grey cat, yes
1933 [18:47:28] <spacebug^> they it might have default to "GNOME Classic". Logout from GNOME, then when logging in, click the gear icon and chose "GNOME" not "GNOME Classic"
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1935 [18:47:48] <Sanderei> It's getting late, i'm gonna watch TV and go to bed. bye
1936 [18:48:02] <joepublic> peace. good luck.
1937 [18:48:08] <Sanderei> thank you
1938 [18:48:17] <Sanderei> maybe I'll come back
1939 [18:48:19] <Sanderei> bye
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1943 [18:49:13] <HoloIRCUser> Yeah, it's still the same.
1944 [18:50:54] <HoloIRCUser> Gnome & Gnome Classic look the same.
1945 [18:52:27] <spacebug^> they should not. Unless you have somehow managed to uninstall or disabled gnome shell
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1957 [18:58:03] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: if you create another user on your system and that user logs in using "GNOME" not "GNOME classic", what does that user get? (just to see if you have managed to do something for your normal user or system wide)
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1960 [18:59:00] <greycat> another way to perform a similar test might be to temporarily rename ~/.gnome and ~/.gconf and possibly other config directories... but creating a new user might be quicker
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1973 [19:06:26] <HoloIRCUser> The new user got a notification: Gnome 3 failed to start properly & started in fallback mode.
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1975 [19:07:02] <greycat> missing some pieces of gnome, or some firmware or drivers?
1976 [19:07:12] <HoloIRCUser> I'm sure that the specs on this system can handle Gnome 3.
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1978 [19:07:57] <HoloIRCUser> This started in the older system during a single test, & now it won't load gnome 3.
1979 [19:08:19] <greycat> your goal at this moment should be discovering precisely WHY it "failed to start"
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1982 [19:08:41] <greycat> perhaps there's a log file somewhere in the new user's home directory. it should be relatively clean in there, not too many hiding places for log files
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1998 [19:18:44] <HoloIRCUser> I found: it's because I need 3d acceleration graphics drivers.
1999 [19:18:56] <greycat> as I said...
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2001 [19:19:37] <HoloIRCUser> My mouse in my kvm isn't working with gnome 2.
2002 [19:19:44] <greycat> apparently there's been some improvement now, if you get a readable error and a fallback to sane settings, rather than just a black screen or a crashed DE and a return to the login, as others have reported before
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2004 [19:19:51] <HoloIRCUser> Any workaround with that?
2005 [19:21:23] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: do you do "redirect USB" and choose the mouse and you get no pointer?
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2008 [19:26:27] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: nevermind. I started my text VM and had the same problem. Closing virt-manager and start it again solved that missing pointer for me.
2009 [19:26:35] <spacebug^> s/text/test
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2037 [19:45:08] <HoloIRCUser> spacebug, closing virt-manager?
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2040 [19:47:08] <joepublic> I am curious whether you have the hardware and drivers to perform 3d acceleration.
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2044 [19:48:14] <HoloIRCUser> I have amd radeon HD 4200 graphics card.
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2047 [19:48:39] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: with kvm didn't you mean KVM (Kernel Virtual Machine) ?
2048 [19:48:44] <HoloIRCUser> I had to install my hdd in a new system. That's why the fuss.
2049 [19:49:45] <HoloIRCUser> Spacebug, I meant keyboard/video/mouse switch for 2 systems, 1 set of auxiliaries.
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2051 [19:50:14] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: oh I see. Then forget what I talked about :)
2052 [19:50:42] <HoloIRCUser> I have to plugin a separate mouse for any mouse functionality within gnome classic.
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2056 [19:52:01] <spacebug^> HoloIRCUser: with "GNOME" you are running wayland which takes cares of input devices etc. In "GNOME Classic" I'm not sure if that uses wayland, I think only Xorg.
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2059 [19:55:03] <HoloIRCUser> spacebug^, yeah, I'm with hopes that the video driver fixes it all.
2060 [19:55:49] <spacebug^> (though xorg nowadays should be pretty good at auto-find mouse/keyboard etc)
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2064 [19:56:21] <HoloIRCUser> My machine is not conveniently located, so I have to get up & bend my back to see the screen & operate the separate mouse. Ugh.
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2075 [20:04:59] <johnyginthehouse> hey are you guys experienced with the debian operating system?
2076 [20:05:32] <towo`> no
2077 [20:05:40] <spacebug^> !ask
2078 [20:05:40] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
2079 [20:05:45] <towo`> the name of that channel was choosen randomly
2080 [20:06:13] *** Quits: subfj (~subfj@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2081 [20:06:18] <johnyginthehouse> I'm sort of new to this linux thing, but there's this directory on my new install of Debian called "/usr/bin". It was all messed up when I first went in there. None of the files had descriptive names, and it took me like an hour to figure out they were executables, since none of them had .exe on the end of them. Furthermore, whenever I double click them, they just pop up command prompt for a few seconds then go away.
2082 [20:06:38] <johnyginthehouse> i just want to check if i'm ok to remove this, not sure if it's malware related
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2084 [20:07:19] <greycat> Troll. *plonk*
2085 [20:07:23] <towo`> your kidding, do you?
2086 [20:07:35] <greycat> No possible way that's a serious question.
2087 [20:07:40] <towo`> of not, yes it's safe to remove all content
2088 [20:07:44] <johnyginthehouse> this is my first linux on a laptop
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2091 [20:08:13] <johnyginthehouse> I have used vanilla mint on my desktop before
2092 [20:08:17] <johnyginthehouse> thanks towo`
2093 [20:08:30] *** Joins: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip )
2094 [20:08:40] <towo`> so, and mint has not /usr/bin?
2095 [20:08:45] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip )
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2097 [20:09:19] <johnyginthehouse> I didn't check but i wasn't really into kernel stuff and figuring it all out at the time
2098 [20:09:47] <towo`> and in mint all executables have .exe as extention?
2099 [20:09:49] <johnyginthehouse> either way nothing broke just a warning that kinda scared me when i first tried
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2101 [20:10:03] <johnyginthehouse> no that's actually a windows thing i figured out towo`
2102 [20:10:11] <towo`> aha
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2104 [20:11:08] <johnyginthehouse> I'm thinking it probably was a malware kind of issue at this point i'll see if there's a linux mcafee to get it sorted
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2107 [20:12:22] <madage> you could try to reverse those executables
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2109 [20:12:41] <johnyginthehouse> you mean hack them madage?
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2111 [20:12:48] <HoloIRCUser> Is there some way to auto configure XORG?
2112 [20:12:57] <madage> yeah, and then publish the source
2113 [20:13:13] <greycat> X is normally used without a config file, since many years ago.
2114 [20:13:20] <towo`> HoloIRCUser, xorg does autoconfig since ages
2115 [20:13:20] <madage> holy grail of hackerdom
2116 [20:13:27] <greycat> You only need a config file for it in uncommon situations. Weird hardware, etc.
2117 [20:13:40] <HoloIRCUser> I installed all the AMD Video drivers. I want to configure xorg before I purge nvidia & restart.
2118 [20:14:02] <johnyginthehouse> i've actually never hacked an executable before madage, don't even know how to be honest
2119 [20:14:02] <towo`> remove all kind of xorg.conf files
2120 [20:14:03] <greycat> Though, given your previous questions, I suspect what you're actually asking is, "Is there a way to automatically install all the firmware I need in Debian?"
2121 [20:14:06] <greycat> !firmware image
2122 [20:14:06] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
2123 [20:14:09] <greycat> That.
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2128 [20:15:34] <HoloIRCUser> Uhh, this hdd was within a different system before. Now it's in an amd system. I installed the amd video drivers. Instructions suggest to purge nvidia & restart.
2129 [20:15:37] *** Joins: Dhora__ (~Dhora@replaced-ip )
2130 [20:16:21] <HoloIRCUser> I want graphics when I actually restart.
2131 [20:16:52] <towo`> then make sure, there is no xorg.conf file anywhere in /etc
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2133 [20:17:08] <towo`> and also make sure fimware-amd-graphics is installed
2134 [20:17:17] <towo`> *firmware-amd-graphics
2135 [20:17:31] <karlpinc> !tell johnyginthehouse about fhs
2136 [20:17:45] <HoloIRCUser> towo`, I thought it was weird xorg.conf was missing.
2137 [20:18:00] <towo`> what?
2138 [20:18:03] *** Quits: Dhora (~Dhora@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2139 [20:18:16] <HoloIRCUser> What's the total name of that package?
2140 [20:18:24] <towo`> you don't need any kind of x-config for amd graphics
2141 [20:18:48] <towo`> which package?
2142 [20:19:07] <HoloIRCUser> firmware-amd-graphics
2143 [20:19:09] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2144 [20:19:26] <towo`> that is the name
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2147 [20:20:03] <HoloIRCUser> That package wasn't listed. Wait, I'll paste instructions page I followed.
2148 [20:20:25] <HoloIRCUser> replaced-url
2149 [20:20:28] <johnyginthehouse> thanks karlpinc !
2150 [20:20:57] <towo`> HoloIRCUser, learn to read
2151 [20:20:58] <johnyginthehouse> think this has spread as stuff is failing to open and I might need to reboot, i'll read that though
2152 [20:21:02] <towo`> HoloIRCUser, Firmware
2153 [20:21:03] <towo`> Proprietary, binary-only firmware (aka microcode) was removed from the Debian kernel's radeon DRM driver in linux-2.6 2.6.29-1, to resolve Debian bug 494009. The firmware can be provided by installing the firmware-amd-graphics or firmware-linux-nonfree package.
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2156 [20:22:27] <jhutchins_wk> johnyginthehouse: There is a utility called file that will tell you what a file is. *nix doesn't care about extensions, there is a "magic word" at the beginning of a file to tell the system what to do with it.
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2158 [20:23:03] <jhutchins_wk> It's not clear what you're seeing, there should be a lot of filels in /usr/bin, that's where the binary programs are.
2159 [20:23:22] <greycat> you're all treating this as a serious question. wow.
2160 [20:23:22] <jhutchins_wk> johnyginthehouse: System file names may not be intuitive to you yet.
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2164 [20:27:32] <jhutchins_wk> I show I show 1465 files in /usr/bin
2165 [20:28:22] <greycat> The number will vary based on how much stuff is installed, and whether the system has been usr-merged or not.
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2167 [20:28:50] <jhutchins_wk> Of course.
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2169 [20:29:45] <johnyginthehouse> yeha jhutchins_wk i can use that from the command line?
2170 [20:30:03] <johnyginthehouse> my shell isn't opening anymore but i have looked it up online
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2172 [20:30:11] <johnyginthehouse> think I broke something on this pc
2173 [20:30:21] <johnyginthehouse> thanks bro
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2177 [20:32:00] <karlpinc> greycat: Thought I'd give it the benefit of doubt. There's no limit to ignorance.
2178 [20:32:42] <greycat> There's "ignorance", which is lack of knowledge. "What does the directory name /usr/bin mean? What are all these files in it? How can I learn more?"
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2180 [20:33:10] <greycat> And there's willful self-destruction or trolling. "These files in /usr/bin are useless because they don't have .exe in their names. So I can just remove them all, right?"
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2191 [20:36:41] <johnyginthehouse> i am going to re-install debian on this laptop sucks i got stuff all comfortable
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2194 [20:36:57] <johnyginthehouse> how is random executables self destruction ??
2195 [20:37:01] <johnyginthehouse> I do that in windows all the time
2196 [20:38:01] <johnyginthehouse> there is no reason to mock me and call self destruction
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2200 [20:40:09] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: Longest I kept a single debian install going without doing a clean install was 2 decades had to update for UEFI.
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2202 [20:40:41] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: so Linux does not have to be treated the same as you use to treat windows.
2203 [20:41:04] <oiaohm> Lot of cases when you have failing Linux installs you have failing hardware.
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2206 [20:42:36] <oiaohm> and if you reinstall on failing hardware its going to fail again.
2207 [20:42:43] <MadCamel> Linux used to have a lot less complexity and moving parts. Also less features. I feel it's becoming more windows-like as more features are added and this is starting to impact reliability.
2208 [20:42:54] <towo`> or he has really removed all the wired stuff in /usr/bin because of fering malware
2209 [20:43:18] <oiaohm> MadCamel: really even with the increased moving parts.
2210 [20:43:37] <oiaohm> MadCamel: I have not seen the reliablity impacted a lot.
2211 [20:43:40] <johnyginthehouse> i think i did delete some needed stuff which greycat calls self destruction i have no clue how I am going to find out what is not malicious on a new install though
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2213 [20:44:18] <johnyginthehouse> probably just mcafee scan the iso and then just leave it in there
2214 [20:44:20] <towo`> on a new install, nothing is malicious
2215 [20:44:30] <towo`> you are really a troll
2216 [20:44:32] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: Normally you only remove stuff from debian install from core directories by apt/dpkg to make sure you don't delete something you should not.
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2218 [20:44:49] <johnyginthehouse> ah ok i will look that up oiaohm
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2221 [20:45:15] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: if you randomally deleted something from core directories you shot yourself.
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2223 [20:45:26] <MadCamel> correctly verify the signature of the install media and nothing should be malicious. Or at least you'll be in good company if some malware/backdoor worked it's way into the packages..
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2225 [20:46:38] <johnyginthehouse> i don't even have a core folder oiaohm, just some stuff from /usr/bin and only after asking
2226 [20:47:06] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: everything under /usr is in the core of the system folders.
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2228 [20:47:21] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: so that not where you should be playing.
2229 [20:47:37] <oiaohm> replaced-url
2230 [20:47:42] <johnyginthehouse> windows user folders is usually where malware is
2231 [20:48:09] <oiaohm> /usr under Linux is your system directory
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2233 [20:48:27] <towo`> i think, he is trolling
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2236 [20:49:10] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: usr actually means Unix System Resources.
2237 [20:49:35] <oiaohm> The missing e makes it a complete different word.
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2239 [20:49:57] <oiaohm> If you debsum you system you will find what packages have missing files.
2240 [20:50:03] <ratrace> *user* system resources
2241 [20:50:16] <greycat> oiaohm: that sounds incorrect. It's not an acronym. It originally meant "user", because it's where the user home directories were. Then things got moved around because of hardware limitations and so on.
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2243 [20:50:32] <oiaohm> greycat: someone dug back into history.
2244 [20:50:33] <ratrace> traditionally unix put ~/ under /usr/home, and /usr stood for "user[ system resources]"
2245 [20:51:03] <oiaohm> It has 3 different defines by 3 different early developers of unix.
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2247 [20:51:21] <ratrace> infact, the only reason it exists, is because "someone" ran out of disk space so they needed to mount another drive. and thus, a whole dogma of where what should go, based on someone running out of disk space :)
2248 [20:51:46] <ratrace> like in a Monty Python sketch
2249 [20:51:47] <greycat> being out of disk space was extremely common for decades
2250 [20:51:49] <mrig> Hello, i have a sony ereader, PRS-T2 and am using debian 10, I used to be able to read and write to the device via usb without any trouble but now am am told that it is a read only file system. Is there any way around this?
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2252 [20:52:16] <jhutchins_wk> johnyginthehouse: mcaffee is not going to find malicious linux code.
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2254 [20:52:24] <johnyginthehouse> so it's /home/USERNAME now instead of /usr/username
2255 [20:52:27] <ratrace> greycat: yes yes, but I mean, some people today go to war over hier(7) and /usr/local (*cough* FreeBSDtards *cough*), oblivious to why that dir exists at all :)
2256 [20:52:41] <jhutchins_wk> johnyginthehouse: The correct way to validate the iso is to verify the checksum and signature.
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2259 [20:53:40] <ratrace> johnyginthehouse: /usr/home/USERNAME
2260 [20:54:12] <greycat> Debian puts user home directories in /home by default. So all this talk of /usr/home is either historical curiosity, or troll-feeding.
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2262 [20:54:39] <ratrace> it's historical. I mentioned in context of usr being "user" and not "unix"
2263 [20:55:06] <jhutchins_wk> It's amusing to see people reverse-engineer acronyms. Things that once stood for one thing are asserted to stand for something completely different.
2264 [20:55:29] <greycat> I find it less amusing and more aggravating, but that might be just me.
2265 [20:55:52] <jhutchins_wk> ratrace: Can you site any reference for that?
2266 [20:56:40] <greycat> Wikipedia references replaced-url
2267 [20:56:42] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: you can ask googs, I just remember how we called it 30+ years ago
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2269 [20:57:08] <ratrace> meanwhile, history has it that /usr was born out of disk space needs, and BSDs symlink /home to /usr/home
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2271 [20:59:35] <oiaohm> ratrace: 3 different developers. You have the BSD, IBM and SUN. Depends on who documentation you are using depends on what USR means.
2272 [21:00:05] <oiaohm> But its safer to think IBM these days.
2273 [21:00:05] <greycat> I still contend it's nothing more than a shortening of the word "user".
2274 [21:00:07] <spacebug^> ..and also what did Linus mean with /usr when he made Linux?
2275 [21:00:24] <greycat> He simply adopted decades-old Unix traditions.
2276 [21:00:39] <greycat> Decade and a half, anyway.
2277 [21:00:42] <oiaohm> greycat: what you stated is sun.
2278 [21:00:56] <greycat> What I just stated is also Dennis Richie.
2279 [21:01:21] <MadCamel> Great example of how old standards never die, even if nobody can remember where they came from.
2280 [21:01:35] <oiaohm> user system resources is what bsd starts using
2281 [21:01:56] <oiaohm> Because the directory was user stuff and system resources.
2282 [21:02:23] <johnyginthehouse> what does linus torvalds have to say ? he invented linux
2283 [21:02:33] <annadane> "shut up idiot" probably
2284 [21:02:41] <ratrace> oiaohm: the reference goes to the very first UNIX, back in 1960s and PDP stuff, and Thomson & Ritchie running out of disk space and thus /usr was born. That's the original story. Later reintrepretatoins and renamings of /usr are less important :)
2285 [21:03:09] <edi_> annadane, +1
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2287 [21:03:16] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: on this topic Linus has no interesting other than /usr directory name was need for application compadiblity.
2288 [21:03:39] <oiaohm> johnyginthehouse: please note Linux is the kernel not the userspace from Linus point of view.
2289 [21:04:00] <oiaohm> So /usr is not Linus problem
2290 [21:04:24] <ratrace> true that. it's GNU's, or more likely systemd's these days :)
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2292 [21:05:09] <oiaohm> The largest number of Linux kernels installed on earth are in Android devices.
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2294 [21:05:35] <ratrace> which also makes arm the most used arch
2295 [21:08:10] <oiaohm> ratrace: just barely its about 51 percent arm vs everything else. Server and desktop combind use to be more than mobile.
2296 [21:08:27] <johnyginthehouse> I didn't know android was linux I have never seen a usr folder in file explorer with mine connected
2297 [21:08:37] <johnyginthehouse> must be completely different in the setup
2298 [21:08:56] <oiaohm> Item with a Linux kernel don't have to have a Unix style layout.
2299 [21:08:59] <towo`> root your device and you will see that structure
2300 [21:09:07] <greycat> these numbers are surely in flux, with the mobile share increasing
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2302 [21:10:28] <ratrace> johnyginthehouse: google up GoboLinux for some interesting ideas. Linux is a kernel that couldn't care less what the dir naming and layout is, btw.
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2304 [21:10:53] <greycat> I think it cares only about /sbin/init
2305 [21:11:06] <oiaohm> greycat: that 51% was from dec 2019 numbers.
2306 [21:11:24] <ratrace> greycat: not even that, as the path can be anything, either compiled or via init= command line arg
2307 [21:11:35] <greycat> but it *is* compiled in...
2308 [21:11:47] <oiaohm> greycat: but now that arm has the lead I don't see that changing back anytime soon.
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2310 [21:12:23] <greycat> cat /proc/cmdline => no mention of /sbin/init so it had to come from the kernel itself
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2312 [21:12:57] <johnyginthehouse> yea tho i was poorly trolling from a debian copypasta
2313 [21:13:21] <ratrace> greycat: yes but the context matters. talking about the kernel and its use in whatever case that not necesssarily a "linux based distro", then "compiled in" is whatever those who compile it, want.
2314 [21:13:31] <johnyginthehouse> greycat is confirmed both based & undeniably patrician
2315 [21:13:33] <ratrace> GoboLinux is one such interesting use case.
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2318 [21:15:09] <oiaohm> replaced-url
2319 [21:15:16] <oiaohm> Yet it is a Linux.
2320 [21:15:42] <ratrace> you mean it's a GNU/Linux distro, yes. RMS has a point here, and it's not necessarily political at all. :)
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2322 [21:16:18] <ratrace> the distinction is even more important with the fact that Linux (the kernel) is used massively in non-GNU applications
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2324 [21:18:19] <MadCamel> It's harder to type though. So excuse me if I just say linux :)
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2326 [21:18:55] <jhutchins_wk> A standard practice of abbreviation at IBM was to drop all of the vowels.
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2335 [21:24:16] <coyotesays> gnu/linux forever! or until balmer extend-extinguishes it
2336 [21:24:34] <coyotesays> linux is kernel not os😃
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2339 [21:24:56] <oiaohm> coyotesays: really more of the Microsoft income is coming dependant that Linux operating systems work.
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2341 [21:25:38] <asymptotically> why stop at gnu/linux? why not xfce/x11/gnu/linux?
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2343 [21:25:55] <coyotesays> we clearly have a different definition of when something works. no offense😃😃
2344 [21:26:42] <oiaohm> coyotesays: switches in Azure cloud services are running debian. If they stopped so would Azure.
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2346 [21:26:51] <misterred> error: cannot list snaps: cannot communicate with server: Get replaced-url
2347 [21:27:06] <coyotesays> debian actual or a fork?
2348 [21:27:31] <misterred> debian stable 10
2349 [21:27:39] <misterred> oh not
2350 [21:27:43] <misterred> it's mx linux
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2352 [21:27:49] <misterred> on my virtual box
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2356 [21:29:13] <oiaohm> coyotesays: its a debian fork called sonic to be correct.
2357 [21:29:27] <coyotesays> thought so
2358 [21:29:29] <oiaohm> coyotesays: ie they had to add the switch switch.
2359 [21:29:38] <ratrace> oiaohm: wait, I thought that was "MS Linux", some specific distro variant MS uses internally
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2361 [21:30:51] <coyotesays> do they keep gpl on it? they are legally required to..
2362 [21:31:22] <misterred> some help with snap?
2363 [21:31:24] <oiaohm> coyotesays: all the parts of sonic are open source and most of it is gpl.
2364 [21:32:03] <coyotesays> hmm most? is that legal?
2365 [21:32:13] <oiaohm> coyotesays: its all legal.
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2368 [21:33:02] <coyotesays> i thought the software can't be used as part of nonfree software (gpl)
2369 [21:33:04] <coyotesays> ?
2370 [21:33:13] <ratrace> they can "violate" GPL all they want internally. the licensing is applicable when you distribute software
2371 [21:33:27] <greycat> The license operates at the program level. A program is either licensed under the GPL, or not.
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2373 [21:33:42] <greycat> It doesn't apply to an entire operating system.
2374 [21:34:17] <coyotesays> wat greycat. wat. ??
2375 [21:34:30] <oiaohm> coyotesays: who said sonic had any non freesoftware. replaced-url
2376 [21:34:35] <greycat> There are programs in Debian that are licensed under the GPL, and programs that are not.
2377 [21:34:53] <coyotesays> u did i thought, oiaohm
2378 [21:35:09] <coyotesays> 'most of it is gpl'
2379 [21:35:33] <greycat> There are other free licenses besides the GPL, like various BSD-based licenses, the Apache license, etc.
2380 [21:35:47] <greycat> !dfsg
2381 [21:35:47] <dpkg> DFSG is the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which are explained at replaced-url
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2384 [21:37:33] <oiaohm> coyotesays: replaced-url
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2386 [21:39:15] <greycat> For Debian, also remember that each individual package is required to contain its license in the file /usr/share/doc/whatever/copyright. A package *usually* only has one license... not quite sure how it works if a single package has software under two or more different licenses.
2387 [21:39:49] <oiaohm> coyotesays: it catches some people how dependant on Linux to work Microsoft is coming.
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2390 [21:40:33] <oiaohm> greycat: multi license packages you will normally see the copyright file get more complex like that thirdpartylicenses file. Stating X is Y license and so on.
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2393 [21:41:03] <oiaohm> greycat: its still one file just more mess of 1 file.
2394 [21:41:45] <ratrace> I always found it amusig when there's multiple licenses. "Choose one", really. How stupid is that.
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2410 [21:52:40] <karlpinc> ratrace: Sometimes you can't help having multiple licenses because you wind up borrowing code from another project.
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2415 [21:56:20] <physiology> Hi all. If I unplug a monitor and plug it back in, it is not recognized on my debian system (but is on a like system with a different linux installed). Is there a setting on Debian to recognize a monitor when plugged in after boot?
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2426 [22:02:40] <OerHeks> physiology, machine = laptop ?
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2429 [22:03:14] <OerHeks> you might have a FN key for monitor internal/external/both
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2432 [22:03:36] <physiology> OerHeks: A ProtectLI, actually.
2433 [22:03:39] <physiology> In both cases.
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2441 [22:05:48] <physiology> I've noticed that my IP and bridge settings do persist after a reboot either.
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2487 [22:39:33] <plantroon> I grew up with Windows and am a hardcore Linux user :D I used to run Archlinux but now I'm on Debian so that I can leave autoupdates on and not care about it
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2489 [22:40:21] <plantroon> lol, I was scrolled way up :D was reacting to some msg :D :D
2490 [22:41:19] <annadane> yeah, debian has a lot going for it. you can get newer software but it's what *you* want and not *everything*
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2496 [22:44:08] <ryouma> am i going to have success getting sound towork now that i have tried (usually outdated) debian-oriented sites, by going to arch sites (for my debian stretch)?
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2500 [22:44:51] <plantroon> arch docs are awesome and may help a lot. But sound usually works OOTB just by installing alsa, pulseaudio and some full desktop environment ...
2501 [22:44:58] <festerjester> Anyone know which package I need to install to minimal network support?
2502 [22:45:04] <greycat> If it's stretch, it's not the timidity thing. Probably. It could be the general horribleness of pulseaudio. That's pretty common.
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2505 [22:46:03] <ryouma> plantroon: i am using an installation that worked on a prvious box. so i am changing hardware. but it is the same stretch. but sound is not working. and debian-oriented wikis and stuff don't seem to be helping.
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2507 [22:46:19] <ryouma> (and i do not use a de)
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2509 [22:46:56] <plantroon> ryouma: open alsamixer and see what sound cards it lists
2510 [22:47:05] <greycat> If you don't use a DE, you can probably use the greycat solution: don't use pulseaudio.\
2511 [22:47:15] <plantroon> or pavucontrol .. are you using pulse?
2512 [22:47:20] <greycat> Just use regular ALSA.
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2514 [22:48:43] <ryouma> plantroon: realtec alc662 hda intel mid
2515 [22:48:51] <plantroon> is it unmuted?
2516 [22:49:12] <ryouma> plantroon: no, i had sound problems long ago on the old computer and purging pulse fixed that completely. no problems after that
2517 [22:49:17] <ryouma> it is unmuted
2518 [22:49:51] <greycat> Speakers or headphones in the correct jack? Speakers powered on? Speaker volume knob not at zero? Playing audio in a program that supports ALSA output?
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2520 [22:51:01] <ryouma> yes to all
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2523 [22:51:49] <plantroon> maybe for a quick test, try booting a live debian with gnome or something, or ubuntu live, to see if it works on Linux ...
2524 [22:52:45] <greycat> I'm not familiar with Realtec here... any chance it might need firmware? Does dmesg | grep -i firmware show any errors?
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2527 [22:54:55] <ryouma> no errors
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2537 [22:59:11] <greycat> Well, the only things I can think of that would cause silent audio playback are hardware, or volume/mute settings.
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2540 [23:00:20] <greycat> (loose plug, plug in the wrong hole, etc. are things that you shouldn't overlook)
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2542 [23:00:40] <ryouma> same color as on previous box. tried other jack also.
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2544 [23:00:48] <ryouma> not loose.
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2546 [23:01:01] <ryouma> i have a plug in sound card. it did not work either.
2547 [23:01:19] <ryouma> but idk if i was as careful when i tried it. but nothing is muted.
2548 [23:01:20] <greycat> if the machine has TWO audio device, then that's a whole 'nother can of worms
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2550 [23:01:31] <ryouma> it is ont plugged in
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2552 [23:01:37] <greycat> getting ALSA to play through the correct audio device when it has a CHOICE of devices is a black art
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2555 [23:02:34] <T61Shark> How can I get rid of zombie processors? It's terrible
2556 [23:02:39] <greycat> !zombie
2557 [23:02:39] <dpkg> A zombie process is one which has issued an exit(), but whose parent has not yet issued wait() (or one of its variants) to retrieve the exit code. This usually means the parent process is buggy. You can't kill a zombie, because it's already dead; you have to kill the parent, or just ignore the zombie.
2558 [23:02:51] <T61Shark> I have two apps under Debian which are doing that: VLC and youtube-dl
2559 [23:02:57] <joepublic> I have seen some zombie processors on ebay
2560 [23:03:06] <T61Shark> Why the fuck does kill -9 work? How buggy is the crappy Linux kernel.
2561 [23:03:15] <T61Shark> Oops, why doesn't it work.
2562 [23:03:23] <greycat> kill does nothing to a zombie. not even kill -9. the zombie is already killed.
2563 [23:03:29] <joepublic> because it's already dead?
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2567 [23:04:08] *** Quits: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Bye, bye...)
2568 [23:04:17] <greycat> maybe he read the bot's factoid and quit because he had learned everything needed
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2571 [23:04:44] <greycat> (hahahaha, yeah, I know, silly cat)
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2575 [23:06:48] <annadane> "why i switched to freebsd"
2576 [23:06:58] <annadane> "stupid kill -9 stupid linux"
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2607 [23:33:56] <ratrace> annadane: I think you killed the cat
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2609 [23:34:22] <ratrace> /bin/kill'ed I mean
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2617 [23:37:44] <ryouma> aren't a lot of zombies owned by 1?
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2632 [23:50:24] <ksk> pid 1 is kind of the father of all processes? ;)
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