People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian an IRC -Channel at freenode (freenode IRC service closed 2021-06-01)
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1 [10:41:51] <nlpqda> I put my debian in suspend "systemctl suspend" mode, but then I came back to find it turned off!!!! can anyone explain why/how/what happened?
2 [10:42:12] <nlpqda> the laptop model is dell latitude e6230
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6 [10:45:04] <slimefoot> battery ran out of power...?
7 [10:45:27] <jjakob> so I installed the not installable dependency (I missed a deb) but apt install ./x.deb still didn't want to proceed, but there were no not installable packages now. So I tried apt -f install and it finally wants to install dependencies instead of removing my packages!
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13 [10:49:18] <elhelh> #ajcsmile
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24 [10:54:07] <nlpqda> slimefoot: it could be, actually the battery is faulty. but I tought it won't be consuming any battery juice while suspended
25 [10:54:59] <slimefoot> suspend still consumes power - the memory unit remains active
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27 [10:55:08] <toruvinn> nlpqda, suspend != hibernation. suspend still keeps some parts powered on (for instance, it has to keep memory on so that, well, you dont lose the memory content)
28 [10:55:13] <slimefoot> if you want it not to use any power, you want to suspend to disk ("hibernate")
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31 [10:56:08] <nlpqda> alrighty, Now I know why it shut off
32 [10:56:36] <nlpqda> on a different topic ... xrandr --output XWAYLAND0 --brightness 0.1 doesn't change brightness
33 [10:57:00] <nlpqda> tried to change many values ... no error returned from the command but doesn't change the screen
34 [10:57:04] <nlpqda> any ideas?
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63 [11:14:23] <autopsy> So of course pulseaudio is a sound daemon it can be exploited, and you know..... this is just stupid so..... it has provisions to only run or welll it can run as root but with --system but it is SUPPOSED to run as an unprivileged daemon in user space.
64 [11:14:31] <autopsy> So pulseaudio isn't devilware
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103 [11:34:07] <marianna> hi! do you know any open source image bank?
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117 [11:44:06] <Haohmaru> bank?
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119 [11:44:33] <Fox> marianna: replaced-url
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123 [11:45:00] <marianna> thanks!
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127 [11:45:21] <Fox> yaw (took me 15s to find on google :/)
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129 [11:45:56] <Fox> replaced-url
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131 [11:47:37] <marianna> lucky you :-P
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133 [11:48:31] <rephlexie> cant you still search google images specifying license type?
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146 [11:56:52] <Fox> rephlexie: yes you can, at the bottom of that page replaced-url
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158 [12:07:07] <marianna> Thanks!!
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165 [12:15:03] <ficklepickle> pixabay.com
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197 [12:29:44] <kiwi_20> hey guys, why does ssh hang when i try to access my server across my home network?
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200 [12:31:01] <Haohmaru> how exactly does it hang?
201 [12:31:06] <Haohmaru> and when
202 [12:31:08] <jm_> try ssh -vvv and see where it's spending time
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204 [12:31:44] <kiwi_20> i did, it shows "debug1: identity file /home/myuser/.ssh/id_rsa type -1" many times
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207 [12:32:02] <kiwi_20> and the last debug message is "debug1: Local version string SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_8.1"
208 [12:32:06] <kiwi_20> and then it just hangs
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210 [12:32:46] <jm_> at that point it should get something from remote, so maybe remote side is doing reverse lookup?
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212 [12:33:11] <autopsy> kiwi_20 not on a LAN network.
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214 [12:33:30] <autopsy> Unless you are running bind or another DNS servicer.
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217 [12:34:04] <autopsy> Your /etc/hosts file might need a specific entry for your ssh server and you might be screwed screweing with /etc/hostname
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220 [12:35:48] <kiwi_20> i'm using a mobile router, connected from one machine wirelessly and connected by ethernet cable with the server
221 [12:35:52] <kiwi_20> not sure if that makes a difference
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223 [12:36:15] <kiwi_20> autopsy^
224 [12:36:29] <kiwi_20> but i can see the service using nmap
225 [12:36:32] <kiwi_20> *server
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227 [12:38:09] <kiwi_20> also getting this in journalctl "Server returned error NXDOMAIN, mitigating potential DNS violation DVE-2018-0001, retry..."
228 [12:38:13] <kiwi_20> not sure if related
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234 [12:41:09] <kiwi_20> dont think its related actually
235 [12:41:14] <kiwi_20> logs are from an hour ago
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258 [13:00:51] <ksk> hola
259 [13:01:57] <ksk> I am on buster, with my root partition on LVM. For that to work I need the binary "lvchange" in initrd - however, update-initramfs does not put it there, rendering me unable to start debian.
260 [13:02:18] <ksk> I suspect it might be a bug, and digged a little bit, however, I cant even find the string lvchange in any of the hooks - am I doing it wrong?
261 [13:02:42] <jm_> why do you think you need lvchange?
262 [13:02:53] <jm_> to activate it or what?
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270 [13:05:00] <ksk> mhm so I was told in here yesterday. I did boot a grml which found my volume-groups, chrooted and in there called update-initramfs - then checked and lvchange was put in initrd.
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273 [13:05:28] <ksk> rebooted, and it worked. then back in running debian again update-initramfs - and then its missing again. I did not reboot again, but I strongly suspect it to fail again
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277 [13:06:08] <ksk> it might be something else is also different, did not do a diff of the initrd contents yet.
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280 [13:06:30] <jm_> I would just run update-initramfswith sh -x to see why it behaves that way with grml
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282 [13:06:59] <ksk> okay, thats a good Idea, thanks.
283 [13:07:02] <jm_> maybe its verbose mode also show something
284 [13:07:58] <jm_> I think the bulk of the work is actually performed by mkinitramfs, so once you find out how it runs that, you might need to run that via sh -x
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286 [13:09:01] <ksk> there is for example a hook "/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/lvm2" which copies lvm2 and dmsetup binaries to the initrd, but no mention of lvchange.
287 [13:09:20] <ksk> also tried searching for the string on salsa, but did not find anything.
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291 [13:10:21] <jm_> right, scripts-local-block/lvm2 contains lvm lvchange
292 [13:10:40] <jm_> and it's indeed to activate it
293 [13:11:36] <jm_> so lvchange is just a symlink to lvm, maybe that's why you don't find it?
294 [13:12:52] <jm_> the other option is to specify debug for initramfs tools, see man initramfs-tools
295 [13:13:03] <jm_> and compare working vs. non-working outputs
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297 [13:13:04] <ksk> ah yeah I remember seeing that ln command in there. but! lvm has no command "lvchange" - maybe thats what changed?
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299 [13:14:19] <ksk> mhm but last lvm2 update was mid 2019 - and I was able to boot a while after that.
300 [13:14:31] <ksk> anyways, got something to debug now, thanks again.
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302 [13:14:43] <jm_> what do you mean has no command lvchange?
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304 [13:15:50] <jm_> lvm lvchange --help should list options it uses, i.e. --sysinit --ignoreskippedcluster
305 [13:16:14] <ksk> replaced-url
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307 [13:16:48] <ksk> the scripts/local-block/lvm2 script indicates there should be "lvm lvchange" - but there is not..
308 [13:17:03] <jm_> yes, that means it should include command lvm, does it?
309 [13:17:38] <jm_> if you look now, ls -l /usr/sbin/lvchange - see what I mean?
310 [13:17:39] <ksk> yes, it is. but for lvm command to work at all you need to have called "lvchange -aay" beforehand
311 [13:18:01] <jm_> no, lvm is the command, lvchange -aay ... are parameters for it
312 [13:18:15] <ksk> but it is in fact not a valid argument to lvm :>
313 [13:18:41] <ksk> oh nevermind, it is. mhhm
314 [13:19:07] <ksk> eeh, Im running in circles here. gonna reboot when I find the time and see what happens. thanks for your time ;)
315 [13:19:13] <jm_> so I only have centos 8 to try it on now and it works just fine, don't see why it wouldn't with debian havng exactly the same setup
316 [13:19:19] <jm_> no problem, hope it helps
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388 [14:23:47] <onnik> Hi all, can anyone help me with my methodology to learning new things (KVM, LVM, etc.). I feel like I just work off cheatsheets and random howto articles. Is that really the best way to learn things?
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390 [14:24:24] <Haohmaru> i'd say the best way to learn is via normal usage ;P~
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394 [14:24:58] <colo-work> the best way is to learn is to actually do. in the end, it's a matter of creating an environment that doesn't punish you (too hard) if/when you mess up.
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399 [14:25:58] <onnik> Is it a dilemma of USER vs. DEV. I see all these forum replies from people who see to know the guts of something. But from my perspective as a Sysadmin/User I'm only ever really going to need to know a fix set of options?
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401 [14:26:16] <onnik> fixed*
402 [14:26:39] <Haohmaru> i don't know neither KVM nor LVM
403 [14:27:51] <onnik> that makes 2 of us :)
404 [14:28:44] <Haohmaru> do you need them?
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407 [14:29:41] <Haohmaru> afaik LVM is something about partitions.. KVM is maybe some h4x0rish thing for keyboardz/mice
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409 [14:30:18] <ksk> lol. everyone should use LVM, for starters
410 [14:30:26] <onnik> KVM -> Virtualization
411 [14:30:26] <dvs> bah
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413 [14:30:35] <ksk> and KVM (in here..) is rather the kernel based virtual machine ;)
414 [14:30:35] <Haohmaru> why?
415 [14:30:44] <Haohmaru> oh
416 [14:30:48] <Haohmaru> hm
417 [14:30:57] <ksk> because I had to do a presentation about that, when I started my job, back in the day :D
418 [14:30:58] <onnik> Haohmaru: because it adds a layer of abstraction to your underlying disks which allows for flexbility
419 [14:31:14] <ksk> nah, it adds flexebility to the "oh no, my /home partition is too small" dilemma.
420 [14:31:26] <Haohmaru> right
421 [14:31:33] <Haohmaru> don't need that for now
422 [14:31:33] <ksk> granted, most people do have lots of space nowadays, still comes in handy (like, if you need bigger root partition for example)
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425 [14:31:47] <Haohmaru> i haven't filled my old hard disk yet
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427 [14:32:11] <dvs> Haohmaru, that's the thing. You can't do it once it's full
428 [14:32:21] <ksk> and I agree to the answer that its learning by doing. If you want to learn KVM, setup some virtual machines, and actually use them for something, build them into your own private stack
429 [14:32:23] <Haohmaru> ehm
430 [14:32:37] <Haohmaru> so LVM adds additional space out of nowhere?
431 [14:32:38] <Haohmaru> ;P~
432 [14:32:40] <onnik> ksk: so essentially you need a goal?
433 [14:32:40] <ksk> there might be no need to have like webserver and whatnot in seperate VMs, but it helps a lot to understand things
434 [14:32:51] <onnik> or atleast an objective
435 [14:33:02] <dvs> Haohmaru, LVM allows you to change the existing partition sizes dynamically
436 [14:33:06] <ksk> Haohmaru: no, it adds a layer in between physical devices and partitions.
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439 [14:33:24] <Haohmaru> yeah, and maybe.. i don't need it for now
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441 [14:34:03] <onnik> I think it comes more in handy for certain scenarios like Servers and shared hosting
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443 [14:34:35] <ksk> totally, yes.
444 [14:34:36] <Haohmaru> i'm merely using debian for CAD'ing and browsing and sh*t
445 [14:34:39] <dvs> Haohmaru, if the partitions are already made without LVM, it's already too late.
446 [14:34:53] <onnik> Normally for a home PC it's not a big deal to throw a new disk in and move some stuff to it
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449 [14:35:13] <onnik> But for a server that's always up, it makes more sense to have the flexiblity because disk ain't always cheap
450 [14:35:23] <Haohmaru> i think the disk at home is 500GB or something
451 [14:35:29] <Haohmaru> i won't fill that up any time soon
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453 [14:35:38] <Haohmaru> i've even left probably half of it unallocated
454 [14:36:30] <onnik> ksk: thanks for that, I might come up with a few services and requirements. That will give me objectives to try complete
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457 [14:37:27] <Haohmaru> objective1: pimp up the debian so it visually looks like win98SE
458 [14:37:29] <onnik> I find that when I need to know some of these things, it's too late and I'm scrambling. But more or less for learning things in general
459 [14:37:45] <onnik> Haohmaru: or use KVM to install Win98SE :)
460 [14:37:52] <Haohmaru> no
461 [14:38:02] <Haohmaru> i got win98SE on another machine
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465 [14:39:02] <Haohmaru> back when crapdows wasn't such a big pile of crap ;P~
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467 [14:39:07] <b1ack0p> hi
468 [14:39:11] <b1ack0p> bash: rfkill: command not found
469 [14:39:23] <ksk> ,file rfkill
470 [14:39:23] <b1ack0p> doesnt debian have rfkill?
471 [14:39:28] <judd> Search for rfkill in buster/amd64: systemd: lib/systemd/systemd-rfkill; rfkill: usr/sbin/rfkill, usr/share/bash-completion/completions/rfkill; gnome-settings-daemon: usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gsd-rfkill; bash-completion: usr/share/bash-completion/completions/_rfkill
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473 [14:39:41] <b1ack0p> what?
474 [14:40:02] <b1ack0p> i am using 32bit
475 [14:40:07] <Haohmaru> you probably either don't have it installed or you are supposed to be root to run it
476 [14:40:09] <ksk> b1ack0p: it shows you packages containing rfkill, you are looking for a package called "rfkill" (surpise!)
477 [14:40:09] <Haohmaru> or sumfin
478 [14:40:23] <ksk> and yes, you need to be root. also keep in mind su behaviour changed with buster
479 [14:40:25] <ksk> !buster su
480 [14:40:25] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See replaced-url
481 [14:40:43] <b1ack0p> ksk: english please
482 [14:40:50] <b1ack0p> i am not that expert
483 [14:41:06] <b1ack0p> i tried with sudo but it didnt work also
484 [14:41:10] <Haohmaru> i think you should be doing "su -"
485 [14:41:25] <ksk> b1ack0p: soo, did you install the rfkill package already, or not?
486 [14:41:29] <Haohmaru> and don't forget to "exit" out of root when you're done
487 [14:41:49] <b1ack0p> ksk: it seems not
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566 [15:35:44] <Akuw> hi guys
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568 [15:36:29] <Rafaga2k> Hi! I'm having some problems with wheezy box
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575 [15:37:23] <Rafaga2k> I'm trying to configure Ethernet interfaces but the config is not persisting between reboots
576 [15:37:40] <Rafaga2k> any idea how to make permanent the changes ?
577 [15:37:46] <Haohmaru> what if i told u that woz fixed in newer debianz?
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579 [15:38:06] <ksk> Rafaga2k: how are you configuring? I suppose e/n/i is kind of the way to go without systemd ;)
580 [15:38:10] <tomreyn> Rafaga2k: are you araware that wheezy is EOL?
581 [15:38:11] <avu> Rafaga2k: depends on what exactly you mean, but probably you want /etc/network/interfaces
582 [15:38:17] <ksk> wheezy is totally end of support btw, you shuld upgrade
583 [15:38:21] <jelly> !interfaces
584 [15:38:21] <dpkg> Your network configuration is in the file /etc/network/interfaces ; "man 5 interfaces" for documentation, "zless /usr/share/doc/ifupdown/examples/network-interfaces.gz" for example configurations. Start and stop your networking with ifup -a and ifdown -a respectively. replaced-url
585 [15:38:28] <Rafaga2k> I know wheezy is EOL
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588 [15:38:44] <Akuw> use nmtui
589 [15:38:53] <jelly> wheezy has ELTS, just for amd64 and i386, until... uh, May 2020 or so
590 [15:38:58] <Rafaga2k> I'm configuring the interfaces with ifconfig directly
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592 [15:39:26] <nvz> heh
593 [15:39:29] <ksk> nope, wheezy ELTS ended ~2019-12-31 - or thats what the wiki says
594 [15:39:41] <nvz> !elts
595 [15:39:41] <dpkg> Limited commercial support for wheezy exists in form of Extended LTS, see replaced-url
596 [15:40:00] <ksk> Rafaga2k: that is not persistant. you have to use e/n/i.
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600 [15:40:14] <Rafaga2k> e/n/i ?
601 [15:40:21] <ksk> !e/n/i
602 [15:40:25] <joepublic> etc. network. interfaces.
603 [15:40:28] <ksk> eh. etc/network/interfaces
604 [15:40:35] <Rafaga2k> sorry I don't understand I'm not so familiar with Debian distros
605 [15:40:43] <nvz> ksk: replaced-url
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607 [15:40:48] <ksk> its the same across many (all?) linux distros..
608 [15:41:34] <nvz> considering that update for weezy was just made today, I wouldnt say ELTS has ended
609 [15:41:45] <ksk> I see.
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611 [15:42:44] <ksk> Rafaga2k: see the links from dpkg
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615 [15:45:01] <Akuw> ksk: yesterday i just created Package file using dpkg-scanpackages
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624 [15:45:41] <Akuw> but now when try to install one of the new packages i got E: Failed to fetch file:/srv/local-apt-repository/local-apt-repository/dialog_1.2-20140911-1_amd64.deb File not found
625 [15:46:05] <ksk> that is interesting, but you definitely used up your contingent of free support hours from me.
626 [15:46:08] <Akuw> but in Packages file i hve Filename: local-apt-repository/dialog_1.2-20140911-1_amd64.deb
627 [15:47:01] <ksk> and until you state "I want to install X" - which for some reason you seem not be willing to share - I would advise anyone else to also ignore you.
628 [15:47:39] <Akuw> to install dialog package
629 [15:47:51] <Akuw> but first i am explaining scenario
630 [15:48:18] <joepublic> the way to explain scenario is to start with important part first.
631 [15:48:25] <DrJ> is there any difference between the commands "apt install <package>" and "apt-get install <package>"?
632 [15:48:26] <joepublic> you are not doing that. just helpful information for you.
633 [15:48:44] <joepublic> Drj, not really
634 [15:48:45] <ksk> DrJ: apt is for endusers nowadays, so use that (it has fancy colors!)
635 [15:49:08] <DrJ> that's what I thought
636 [15:49:15] <nvz> DrJ: yes, there are a lot of differences.. apt by default installs recommended and such
637 [15:49:16] <Rafaga2k> ksk: dpkg Thanks
638 [15:49:22] <ksk> nothing wrong with useing apt-get as far as I know.
639 [15:49:32] <DrJ> I've used "apt" for a while now since I'm lazy but have wondered
640 [15:49:47] <DrJ> I mean, those 4 extra keystrokes are nice to avoid
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648 [15:53:07] <joepublic> I don't "apt search" because often I pipe the results to less, and apt complains -- apt-cache search doesn't complain
649 [15:53:41] <michel-433> problem to connect from my debian to my raspberrypi3 b+, any advice please ?
650 [15:53:50] <michel-433> using ssh
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652 [15:54:07] <DrJ> michael_mbp: raspberrypi has ssh disabled by default nowadays
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654 [15:54:35] <DrJ> replaced-url
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675 [16:05:26] <michel-433> Hi DrJ thank you for your comment about ssh, do you have any useful link for me ? Thanks ! michel
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683 [16:09:22] <Akuw> when you run dpkg-scanpackages could be Packages does not have all packages in the list?
684 [16:09:45] <Akuw> because i check the resulting Packages file and has a diferent number of packages
685 [16:10:26] <Akuw> for example li do ls -l *.deb and cat Packages | grep Filename
686 [16:10:34] <Akuw> and got diferent number of packages
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692 [16:13:29] <Akuw> ls -l *.deb | nl --> 495 Lines
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695 [16:14:15] <Akuw> cat Packages | awk -F"/" '/Filename/{print $2}' | nl --> 485 Lines
696 [16:14:24] <Akuw> so there is a diference
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698 [16:15:11] <Akuw> so the question is, the number of packages should be the same right?
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738 [16:37:03] <jimmy_> hello guys
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753 [16:42:24] <jelly> Akuw: a typical repo can only have the latest version of a package. If you have foo_1.0_amd64.deb and foo_1.1_amd64.deb in the same directory, dpkg-scanpackages will only include 1.1 in the Packages list. It will also complain about multiple packages with same name during the creation IIRC.
754 [16:42:53] <Akuw> jelly: thanks
755 [16:43:38] <jelly> Akuw: did dpkg-scanpackages, in fact, make some output when you were creating the Packages list?
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759 [16:46:57] <Akuw> yes
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762 [16:48:36] <Akuw> dpkg-scanpackages: warning: package mqge (filename local-apt-repository/mqge_1.2.2_amd64.deb) is repeat; ignored that one and using data from local-apt-repository/mqge-2.1.0.deb!
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766 [16:50:35] <michel-433> hello, have a problem with using gpio rasbberry3 b+, gpio read 0 LED ON, gpio read 1 LED OFF, anyone to help me please ? Thanks !
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804 [17:18:12] <b1ack0p> hi there
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835 [17:38:07] <volter> I just upgraded a Jessie host to Buster that is running a single LXC guest.
836 [17:38:18] <volter> I did the automatic config file upgrade.
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838 [17:39:30] <komunista> hi all
839 [17:39:33] <volter> However, the guest won't start.
840 [17:39:52] <jelly> volter: hopefully you did it in two steps, first 8->9 then 9->10 ?
841 [17:40:06] <volter> Yes
842 [17:40:12] <volter> No such file or directory - Failed to set AppArmor label "lxc-container-default-cgns"
843 [17:40:24] <volter> This is what I get when I run it in foreground.
844 [17:40:53] <volter> I'm not sure what exactly I'm missing here.
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846 [17:42:56] <volter> I've got the hunch that his might be a subsequent fault.
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855 [17:48:00] <jelly> I'm clueless about both lxc and apparmor, but it sounds like something apparmory is either missing, not active, or misconfigured
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858 [17:48:43] <jelly> and googling that error yields #918842
859 [17:48:44] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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863 [17:52:20] <greycat> lsb-release suggests "lsb" which... doesn't exist and has nothing providing it? Am I reading this correctly?
864 [17:52:48] <jelly> yes, lsb is gone
865 [17:52:53] <petn-randall> michel-433: This is a Debian support channel, you might have more luck asking in the raspberry pi or raspbian channel.
866 [17:52:57] <petn-randall> !raspberry
867 [17:52:57] <dpkg> The Raspberry Pi is an open hardware design based on a Broadcom system-on-a-chip, requiring <non-free> <firmware>. Debian's <armel> port works fine, but does not use the Pi's hardware floating point unit. Debian's <armhf> port targets a newer revision of the ARM chip than is in the Pi, so armhf will not work on it. replaced-url
868 [17:53:18] <petn-randall> michel-433: ^^^ the channel is #raspberrypi
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870 [17:54:23] <Randolf> !fixmbr
871 [17:54:23] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
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873 [17:54:57] <p8m> dpkg: I think everything after the Raspberry pi 2 works with armhf
874 [17:54:57] <dpkg> p8m: bugger all, i dunno
875 [17:55:01] <jelly> Akuw: so dpkg-scanpackages told you it would ignore local-apt-repository/mqge_1.2.2_amd64.deb, that meant it would not put 1.2.2 in the resulting Packages file for the repo. Hence the difference.
876 [17:56:00] <Randolf> Damn, shutting off UEFI in the BIOS doesn't result in Debian installing without EFI. I'm glad this !fixmbr resource is here to help from Rescue Mode.
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878 [17:56:36] <petn-randall> Randolf: It would if you'd do it. Or you have bugs in your BIOS.
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880 [17:57:06] <volter> jelly: Meh, thank you for finding this, I only saw Ubuntu stuff. Actually, I'm not sure if this issue is actually resolved. apparmor_parser was not installed on this host. However, installing "apparmor apparmor-utils" immediately made it go away.
881 [17:57:21] <volter> It probably has a post-inst hook.
882 [17:57:40] <Randolf> petn-randall: I just went through all this last night too. I think the 10.2.0 installer is buggered up with installing GRUB because I didn't experience this problem at all when installing 10.1.0.
883 [17:57:41] <volter> (I ran no other command)
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885 [17:58:12] <jelly> volter: I just did a literal search for the more interesting part of the error message. replaced-url
886 [17:58:42] <volter> I went through startpage. Maybe that gave different results or I'm simply blind.
887 [17:58:46] <Randolf> petn-randall: Yup, and now it boots after getting nothing but fatal errors while attempt to force-install GRUB from Rescue Mode.
888 [17:58:46] <petn-randall> Randolf: If you boot in legacy mode your will technically prevent the booted system from accessing any UEFI functions, so even if the installer were buggy, it couldn't change any UEFI settings.
889 [17:58:57] <petn-randall> *your BIOS
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893 [17:59:42] <petn-randall> Randolf: I'm guessing your might have missed the less descriptive settings in your BIOS which still enable UEFI, e.g. CSM mode.
894 [18:00:08] <Randolf> petn-randall: I'm getting consistent problematic behaviour on a system that's 5 years old, and a new system with an Intel server motherboard that's 1 month old.
895 [18:00:53] <Randolf> petn-randall: CSM mode? I only have an option in this BIOS for affecting UEFI mode -- the options are: UEFI, Legacy, Both, and None.
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897 [18:01:37] <Randolf> (I'm working with the 5-year-old system right now.)
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899 [18:02:15] <tomreyn> CSM is any value you set that that includes "Legacy"
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901 [18:02:37] <petn-randall> Randolf: I'm guessing the older one will have CSM support, it was quite typical for mobo's of that time. I've seen new one's that don't have it anymore.
902 [18:02:40] <tomreyn> i.e. "Legacy" or "Both"
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904 [18:02:55] <petn-randall> tomreyn: Not necessarily, it's usually a separate setting.
905 [18:02:57] <Randolf> tomreyn: Ah, okay. The BIOS mentions Legacy but not CSM at all anywhere.
906 [18:03:10] * Randolf is looking through the BIOS settings right now.
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909 [18:03:58] <petn-randall> Randolf: You might need to check the BIOS manual, manufacturers have very creative ways of naming that setting. It's separate from the one you mentioned.
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911 [18:05:43] <Randolf> petn-randall: I actually don't think this is the problem. Ubuntu and NetBSD both install on these systems without any such troubles (I'm assuming NetBSD is not using UEFI though). I also didn't encounter these issues with Debian 10.1.0. Only 10.2.0's installer has these problems.
912 [18:06:51] <petn-randall> Randolf: What problem do you have exactly? You haven't described it yet.
913 [18:08:11] <Randolf> petn-randall: When I install Debian 10.2.0, the installer always fails when attempting to install GRUB. After rebooting, the GNU GRUB BASH command line appears instead of booting into Debian. So, I run the installer's Rescue Mode, go to a shell and run "grub-update && grub-install /dev/sda" which also fails. Then I reboot and Debian boots
914 [18:08:12] <Randolf> properly.
915 [18:08:37] <Randolf> This problem does not occur with Debian 10.1.0's installer.
916 [18:09:12] <Randolf> I'm getting the same experience on Intel (1 month old) and Gigabyte (5 years old) motherboards so far.
917 [18:09:34] <Randolf> (BIOS is up-to-date to current on both motherboards -- I always do this prior to installing any OS.)
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920 [18:09:56] <petn-randall> Randolf: If this issue is reproducible, I'm sure the debian-installer team will like to hear from this. I'd file a bug report to it, and offer to test a few things if needed.
921 [18:10:14] <Randolf> I'd be happy to.
922 [18:10:22] <Randolf> Where is the best place to file my report?
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925 [18:10:33] <petn-randall> Randolf: If you need to get it running now, you can still use the old installer and just update, which will give you the same system state.
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927 [18:10:57] <Randolf> It's working with 10.2.0's installer as long as I ignore the fatal errors in Rescue Mode.
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930 [18:11:29] <petn-randall> Randolf: replaced-url
931 [18:11:47] <Randolf> Thanks!
932 [18:11:58] <petn-randall> There's a IRC channel, and also a mailing list. I'd poke them there to collect data, and then file a bug report when they ask you to.
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936 [18:13:59] <Randolf> Wow, there's a lot to read there. This is going to take a lot of time by the looks of it.
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938 [18:14:28] <Randolf> I also don't see a form for submitting a simple bug report.
939 [18:14:45] <Randolf> Which IRC channel should I use for this?
940 [18:15:05] <Randolf> (I don't want to join any more eMail lists as I get way too much eMail as it is.)
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942 [18:16:14] <petn-randall> Umm, you don't have to read all of it. Contact info is at the top. The mailinglist is open.
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944 [18:18:08] <petn-randall> You can also just use `reportbug` to file a bug against the "installation-reports" pseudo-package.
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949 [18:19:16] <Randolf> Okay, I see. Thanks! I'll try the "reportbug" command then.
950 [18:19:40] <Randolf> (Novice mode it is...)
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954 [18:21:34] <dae92> hi i am running debian 10 and can't figure out how to get debian to recognize/browse my kindle tablet. it's a pretty old one too and people say it should just work, but it doesn't show up in my file manager. i installed gmtp and that can't detect it either
955 [18:23:21] <petn-randall> dae92: I think you need to use something like calibre to access it.
956 [18:23:33] <petn-randall> I don't think you get raw filesystem access to it for various reasons.
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958 [18:24:41] <dae92> petn-randall: oh ok, it runs a amazon branded version of android so i thought i could just plug in and browse it like i would be able to a phone
959 [18:25:03] <dae92> nothing i read online mentions needing calibre
960 [18:25:51] <petn-randall> It does? I thought Amazon built their own firmware.
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962 [18:26:35] <petn-randall> Even if it doesn't, it'll make life a lot easier.
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964 [18:28:44] <dae92> yes it's android, at least on the fire tablet
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966 [18:29:07] <dae92> would calibre let me add non-book files though, like video?
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968 [18:30:06] <petn-randall> dae92: It converts any format to the format the device understands. So if it can play videos, it will convert it.
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974 [18:32:59] <dae92> petn-randall: cool
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978 [18:34:54] <dae92> thanks petn-randall. if anyone else has success seeing a kindle's filesystem withotu calibre let me know, but in the meantime i will install that
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992 [18:43:31] <petn-randall> dae92: You probably have to do some black magic on the device itself to offer some kind of interface to your computer.
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994 [18:46:03] <jhutchins_wk> dae92: Kindle's storage is in two different formats. The "books" are more like the way itunes stores music, it's not distinct ebook files that you could copy to another device and read them. Part of that is for DRM.
995 [18:46:50] <jhutchins_wk> dae92: You can put regular files, mobi ebook format, on the filesystem and the reader will present them as documents, sometimes with fewer features than regular file.s
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997 [18:47:38] <jhutchins_wk> dae92: I tend to send non-drm files to my kindle with Amazon's email feature.
998 [18:48:00] <Randolf> petn-randall: I've been put into an editor after selecting "Yes" for sharing LVM information. Am I supposed to add my report here?
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1001 [18:50:24] <Randolf> I think I'll assume "yes" and add my report to this file.
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1006 [18:52:03] <petn-randall> Randolf: It should come with a template, so yes.
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1008 [18:53:20] <dae92> jhutchins_wk: because this is a rebranded android OS, i was able to install the fdroid app store on the device and install a seperate open source ebook reader, so i was planning on avoiding amazon's proprietary stuff
1009 [18:55:05] <dae92> jhutchins_wk: how do you copy files to the filesystem though? i can do the email method too but it would be cool to just drag and drop directly from a computer
1010 [18:56:00] <dae92> i suspect this might be an MTP issue. even though i have libmtp9. but when i go into the device's settings, i can see it presents itself to whatever OS you connect it to through MTP
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1020 [19:04:50] <Randolf> petn-randall: Thanks. I just sent the bug report (along with a note of appreciation to everyone who's contributed to Debian Linux).
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1023 [19:06:28] <petn-randall> Randolf: There's a good chance they'll need more info, but you should get those replies via mail.
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1029 [19:08:46] <Randolf> I'll be glad to help where I can.
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1041 [19:16:23] <riezaizu> Will the next release of Debian support 32-bit computers?
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1043 [19:17:02] <greycat> I'd bet a large amount of money on it.
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1045 [19:17:41] <greycat> It's hard to imagine all 32-bit platforms (especially i386) becoming unsupported any time soon.
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1048 [19:18:04] <riezaizu> Thanks, I was talking about i386 btw
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1052 [19:19:07] <jhutchins_wk> Didn't ubuntu drop 32b support?
1053 [19:19:29] <greycat> how the hell would I know..
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1055 [19:19:33] <riezaizu> jhutchins_wk, I don't think for 20-04
1056 [19:20:11] <ratrace> they long dropped 32-bit installers, and 20.04 will only support a limited multilib set (like for steam, wine and similar "strategic" programs)
1057 [19:20:17] <ratrace> no 32bit kernel iirc tho
1058 [19:20:26] <greycat> Hilarious.
1059 [19:20:30] <petn-randall> Ubuntu planned on dropping it, but rolled back on the decision as steam said they'd drop Ubuntu support if they did.
1060 [19:21:08] <ratrace> as for support in debian... maybe debian won't drop installers and packages but... consider the exponentially disappearing developer/testing support, especially for the kernel
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1062 [19:22:10] <bzed> I know that ubuntu won't support ceph on i386... I've got a weird patch, it will build, but after those 1-2h no binary will be generated
1063 [19:23:21] <annadane> reasons #12 i don't recommend ubuntu to new users
1064 [19:23:29] <annadane> reaosn*
1065 [19:23:31] <annadane> forget it
1066 [19:23:39] <greycat> replaced-url
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1068 [19:23:58] <ratrace> they're counting pings received, for those packages, from computers that installed popcon
1069 [19:24:17] <greycat> No package name is shown there.
1070 [19:25:35] <ratrace> because it's arch summary. eg. 20277 i386 package installations were pinged via popcon
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1072 [19:26:52] <jelly> most of my i386 installations run amd64 kernels now
1073 [19:27:19] <ratrace> personally I think dropping i386 is only a bonus. the tech is ancient (first consumer 64-bit cpus were widely available 10+ years ago), and receives very little testing and x86_32 specific development (like the kernel)
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1075 [19:27:36] <greycat> "10 years old" is not ancient enough to drop support
1076 [19:27:52] <greycat> maybe for "ooh shiny" toy distros like Ubuntu
1077 [19:27:53] <jelly> some "tech" has been running for 40-50 years now
1078 [19:28:01] <ratrace> greycat: in FOSS? totally is. who's gonna pay for that
1079 [19:28:22] <ratrace> infra and effort required to build all that crap for what.... 5% of users?
1080 [19:28:58] <greycat> 20277/(20277+174570) is just over 10%
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1083 [19:29:19] <ratrace> assuming popcon statistics is reliable
1084 [19:29:29] <greycat> Sure, of course.
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1092 [19:30:15] <joepublic> popcon stats are what they are, and perfectly reliable as such
1093 [19:30:27] <greycat> we don't have any *better* data sources AFAIK
1094 [19:30:54] <ratrace> meanwhile, with bullseye still supporting x86_32, that means 2021 + LTS, slowly bordering ** 20 ** years.... I'd really love if bullseye+1 would drop x86_32
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1096 [19:31:17] <ratrace> joepublic: they're unreliable because nobody knows how representative the sample is
1097 [19:31:28] <ratrace> eg. I'm not installing popcon on any of the 200+ machines under my control
1098 [19:31:39] <joepublic> they are perfectly reliable because they are "a survey of popcon users" and nothing more.
1099 [19:31:41] <greycat> I install it on my home machine, but not the work machiens.
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1101 [19:31:46] <ratrace> "unreliable" in terms of statistical analysis
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1106 [19:32:24] <joepublic> statistical analysis is impossible with something that doesn't phone home. that's a feature, not a bug.
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1108 [19:32:38] <ratrace> irrelevant to the fact that popcon has no inferential value :)
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1113 [19:33:18] <ratrace> last night, 50% population of village X died. genocide? natural disaster? no.... pop=2, one died.
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1115 [19:33:41] <greycat> I don't think you can use the word village there.
1116 [19:33:52] <ratrace> therefore without N, a lot of statistical analysis has zero value. like, average is useless without std, which requries N
1117 [19:33:57] <petn-randall> ratrace: But 2 << 20277
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1119 [19:34:02] <joepublic> if something gets a hit in popcon, then it is 100% for sure being used by someone. If something doesn't get a hit, then there is simply no data about it.
1120 [19:34:21] <greycat> "A village is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet but smaller than a town, with a population ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand. "
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1124 [19:34:54] <joepublic> extrapolation from popcon stats has historically been useful.
1125 [19:35:07] <joepublic> That's all anyone should ask of popcon.
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1128 [19:35:26] <ratrace> it's indication at best. without N, the data is statistically irrelevant.
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1130 [19:35:46] <joepublic> statistical analysis is impossible with something that doesn't phone home. that's a feature, not a bug.
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1135 [19:36:38] <ratrace> precisely, thus statistically value of popcon is zero.
1136 [19:36:41] <joepublic> I hear that Windows 10, for example, phones home a report of every program and document opened. You can get great stats out of that.
1137 [19:36:55] <lupine> kill it
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1139 [19:37:11] <joepublic> Ah, but the value of popcon is nonzero despite its not being a source of rigorous statistics.
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1142 [19:37:37] <annadane> popcon is useful.
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1144 [19:37:56] <lupine> popcon is how all metrics should be done
1145 [19:37:59] <annadane> i don't know how to do it in a way which is better statistically but also more invasive
1146 [19:38:00] <lupine> polite, opt-in, anonymous
1147 [19:38:06] <ratrace> it's as useful as the netcraft freebsd trollpost that calculated number of users based on percentages of mailing list submissions.
1148 [19:38:17] <annadane> no.
1149 [19:38:32] <greycat> *plonk*
1150 [19:38:39] <ratrace> it's virtually the SAME thing. no N of sample size, no estimate of population, just numbers from those that use mailinglist^W popcon
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1152 [19:38:43] <greycat> Clearly he's just trolling us, so I'm not going to respond any more.
1153 [19:38:50] <joepublic> I know this might be hard for some to believe, but it's possible to voluntarily show support for the packages you use by running popcon.
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1155 [19:38:56] <greycat> A *large* number of Debian users are still on i386.
1156 [19:38:58] <ratrace> I'm not trolling, I just understand the math
1157 [19:39:15] <joepublic> you seem to understand the math of something not related to popcon.
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1163 [19:40:31] <ratrace> *shrug*
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1262 [20:34:19] <eclips0> Have anyone tried running Proxmox on a Debian buster server. Got a server for Christmas and was wondering if anyone has experience with Proxmox on Debian
1263 [20:34:39] <eclips0> ?
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1266 [20:36:05] <ksk> !proxmox
1267 [20:36:05] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
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1279 [20:39:32] <tds> pve 6 is based on buster and works nicely, ask in ##proxmox if you have any questions etc :)
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1326 [21:10:03] <robogoat> Anybody know what happened to the debian nightlies last night?
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1393 [21:56:08] <Aelu> Xeon CPU master race prove me wrong
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1426 [22:15:59] <akira893> xeon is nice
1427 [22:16:05] <akira893> i have a 8 core xeon right now
1428 [22:16:07] <akira893> pretty sick
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1472 [22:25:55] <wikan> hi, anyone uses xbindkeys? I am trying to bind keys but I wanna to use keysyms not keycodes
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1474 [22:26:23] <wikan> i am trying to setup second keyboard with different leyout
1475 [22:26:41] <wikan> but xbindkeys seems to be layout independent
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1536 [22:59:19] <rander2> hello
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1539 [22:59:35] <joepublic> h'lo
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1542 [23:01:52] <b1ack0p> sup
1543 [23:02:28] *** Quits: kharloss (~kharloss@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1544 [23:02:30] <rander2> how use different route for 2 different program ?
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1548 [23:03:43] <rander2> If I have 2 different route, how may I use one route for a program, and other for another
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1550 [23:05:19] <joepublic> more detail?
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1558 [23:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1499
1559 [23:09:57] <rander2> I have 2 IP, one eth0 and ppp0 , how may I use one for ssh client for example ? Is it possible set up application level routing ?
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1562 [23:12:20] <greycat> it might be easier to set up routing rules based on what UID is making the connection
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1570 [23:15:24] <dmzpub> you can mark packets by a lot of different criteria... by uid, by proto and port and any of the dozens of netfilter options
1571 [23:15:36] <dmzpub> then you need to route those marked packets as dessired
1572 [23:15:46] <dmzpub> like in: replaced-url
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1579 [23:20:17] <rander2> so I must use iptables to do this
1580 [23:22:49] <dmzpub> mmm for permanent things, maybe better
1581 [23:23:02] <dmzpub> you can also use network namespaces
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1602 [23:38:21] <rander2> thx
1603 [23:38:26] <rander2> good nighbt
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1605 [23:38:29] <rander2> night
1606 [23:38:43] <dmzpub> have a good night
1607 [23:38:53] <rander2> u too
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1609 [23:40:31] <dmzpub> i'm trying alternatives to fluxbox, but... I don't know, maybe too many years using the same... always come back to it
1610 [23:40:47] <dmzpub> the only contender until now, is kde
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1612 [23:41:13] <dmzpub> was my first desktop in the 90's... and wow, it has improved a lot
1613 [23:41:42] <dmzpub> is there something to generate dynamic contextual menus in kde ?
1614 [23:42:11] <dmzpub> I had a few crontabs, etc generating menus for my fluxbox, and I just miss that in kde
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1616 [23:42:31] <Miles8of9> end '90s.. my first wm..... fvwm95!!!
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1618 [23:43:43] <dmzpub> no internet at home in that years... a suse CD... gnome was hugly, kde was nice :)
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1621 [23:44:03] <Miles8of9> kde was heavy and buggy!!
1622 [23:44:23] <dmzpub> yes ! everything was buggy in the 9x's hehe
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1625 [23:45:10] <dmzpub> so.. is there some window manager or DE, where it's easy to generate your own menus ?
1626 [23:45:15] <Miles8of9> then someone migrated from libc5 which was quite stable and reliable to glibc6.... BOOOMM..!!
1627 [23:45:17] *** Parts: jerome__ (~jerome@replaced-ip ) ("Au revoir")
1628 [23:45:23] *** Quits: murii (~murii@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1629 [23:46:04] <dmzpub> like SSH/IPMI/foobar shortcuts to all my servers/IPMI/switches/PDUs in structured menus
1630 [23:46:20] *** Joins: speare (~speare@replaced-ip )
1631 [23:46:22] <dmzpub> I miss that when I go out of fluxbox
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1635 [23:47:03] <dmzpub> menus that are text-editable, can use includes and have hot-reload when cron updates them
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1640 [23:47:45] <Miles8of9> i use gnome now... there are no menus, no icons on desktop... no shortcuts.. no nothing!! desktop is totally empty! :D
1641 [23:48:31] <dmzpub> for example... "fetch the jira issues assigned to me, an place an entry in this submenu" and thins like that
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1645 [23:49:26] <dmzpub> I suppose those heavy DE, may need some GU dev to do things like this
1646 [23:49:37] <dmzpub> *GUI
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1648 [23:50:35] <dmzpub> fluxbox is totally empty too by default
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1651 [23:50:46] <rtra> Miles8of9: I'm staring at my stumpwm and contemplating the meaning of emptiness.
1652 [23:51:14] *** Quits: volodim (~volodim@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1653 [23:51:19] <dmzpub> gnome started removing basic settings, and now is like a heavy window manager
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1659 [23:53:55] <dmzpub> fluxbox is funkky... you can do whatever you want with the main menu, but default debian menus got broken at some point
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context: nick names on moving displays as market values
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