157[13:28:53] <Janni> Hello. A colleague of mine is experiencing a weird phenomenon. I'm hoping you guys might have an explanation for it.
158[13:29:12] <Haohmaru> Aliens.
159[13:29:37] <Habbie> probably not aliens.
160[13:29:47] <Janni> He is running a Postgres server that is doing a lot of work. It slows down his entire system. When he removes the swap everything runs very smoothly.
207[13:44:38] <Haohmaru> so it seems i've installed 32bit debian instead of 64bit... now.. is there a way to change this without reinstalling and loosing configurations/customizations?
267[14:15:54] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
268[14:16:42] <Wulf> dpkg: wgetpaste?
269[14:16:42] <dpkg> wgetpaste is a CLI application for sending text to a pastebin, its only dependencies are bash and wget. To install and use: wget replaced-url
331[14:52:36] <Haohmaru> altho it says i'm supposed to know what every command on there does or else the procedure is not for me
332[14:52:37] <Haohmaru> :/
333[14:52:38] <greycat> !crossgrade
334[14:52:38] <dpkg> Converting an i386 installation into an amd64 installation in-place is quite difficult. It's much easier to reinstall the system with the new architecture -- ask me about <install debian>. If you've got good backups, plenty of time and are feeling lucky, you can try replaced-url
335[14:53:04] <Haohmaru> hm.. what can happen?
336[14:53:30] <greycat> The most obvious thing that could happen is that you screw up libc6 so badly that no dynamically linked programs can run, at all.
350[15:04:56] <Devastator> hum, sysctl not found..
351[15:05:10] <Haohmaru> do you mean systemctl?
352[15:05:24] <greycat> !buster su
353[15:05:25] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To use the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See replaced-url
354[15:05:39] <DammitJim> man, I've always used su -
355[15:05:47] <greycat> if that works for you, great
471[16:00:01] <unborn> fling: you can write your self bash script and run it via cron as root however unattended upgs could turn very ugy.. just setup your cron with that bash on day when you not working (on production machines) so if anything go tits you can and have time to recover it. - unattended updates are like windows 10 (you never know what is happening and where and to what as it is running on background, don't be out of your mind, just do once a couple of months
472[16:00:04] <unborn> apt update to check, pin packages you would like to freeze and update rest..
475[16:02:19] *** Quits: b30wulf (uid175355@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
476[16:02:25] <greycat> hold, not pin
477[16:04:03] <unborn> pin or hold or perhaps lets call it freeze.. sorry greycat , to me it means same.. :) no offence please but you got me in the mind.
478[16:04:42] <unborn> but you right even synaptic saying hold... so hold is correct
513[16:10:16] <Habbie> JordiGH, i've had 2 or 3 firefox crashes since march i think
514[16:10:21] <Habbie> JordiGH, so nothing interesting
515[16:10:32] <unborn> fling then just open terminal and type su, enter password and then see output.. if you wold like to run this via cron it its doable.. just tell the bash to put output of the command to txt file..
516[16:10:34] <JordiGH> Habbie: Would you mind trying my method?
517[16:10:44] <JordiGH> Discord seems to work too.
518[16:10:48] <Habbie> JordiGH, i'd be happy to try that later
545[16:14:27] <JordiGH> Habbie: Hm, it seems to work on any chat service where the thing does a lot of js processing looking for emojis as you type or something. Mastodon?
547[16:14:38] <JordiGH> But Mastodon got more efficient recently.
548[16:14:51] <Habbie> i don't have mastodon
549[16:15:00] <JordiGH> Well, that one's easier to acquire.
550[16:15:07] <wasamasa> do it like JWZ and send each other emails every minute
551[16:15:10] <Habbie> i'm not going to acquire anything
552[16:15:26] <JordiGH> Do you talk to other people on the internet via some js-based chat anywhere?
553[16:15:58] <Habbie> slack, rocketchat
554[16:16:01] <JordiGH> So maybe that explains why I'm the only Debian user experiencing Firefox crashes: no other Debian user uses Firefox to talk to other people but me.
555[16:16:06] <wasamasa> :D
556[16:16:13] <Habbie> JordiGH, a likely theory :D
557[16:16:22] <Habbie> JordiGH, so you say, enter a line of text, then just backspace it away?
558[16:16:28] *** Quits: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
559[16:16:31] <JordiGH> Well, it has to be using a lot of js.
564[16:17:04] <unborn> JordiGH: I wrote once npm thingy which behaved as support live chat 1 to 1 from website directly to your irc - like an pm but left it.. too much to maintain and too much people around...
565[16:17:05] <Habbie> ah, that's not something rocketchat does at all
577[16:19:06] <tlatelolco> Hello. I have Debian 9.9 and I never can input ¨i or ^a as one character. It always dissociates them. Wether I am in Swiss French or in Bépo keyboard layout. Where does it come from, please?
609[16:30:38] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
610[16:31:22] <unborn> JordiGH: nah we are safe, all to talk about it, all I want to ask, do I am right that part of that snap thingy is closed source or appropriately called closed? the reason is it looks to me very nice and simple to have it running but somehow I do not trust packages from 3th party nor even partly closed sourced program.. its just I have been running stable long years however those snap packages does not explain anything closer to me.. and there is no
611[16:31:22] <unborn> answer from packages maintainers nor from its own creators - called canonical or whatever they may be called.
612[16:31:27] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
624[16:33:38] <unborn> JordiGH: understood.. however when you look at the code of the server - if you would have an chance it seems to me to be closed source..
625[16:33:57] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
626[16:33:58] <JordiGH> I didn't think the server code was distributed at all.
627[16:34:13] <unborn> and I am asking as i am free from those kind of stuff for many years..
628[16:34:31] <JordiGH> So if they don't distribute the code at all, the question whether it's free or not is immaterial.
645[16:36:52] <JordiGH> unborn: I don't find open vs closed source a very meaningful distinction. And people often think it just means whether the code is visible or not. I'd rather talk about free vs non-free software.
646[16:37:30] *** Quits: ich (~ich@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
650[16:38:26] <JordiGH> Like, the source could be visible but restricted. Is that "closed source"?
651[16:38:47] <greycat> non-free open source
652[16:39:09] <unborn> Habbie: we are talking about the process of creating the package - that magic - of course snap is or perhaps to my understanding must be closed source or partly closed source as they do not distribute it out now publish it out.. they just say, hey trust us and be happy.. which I had to ask here since this is open source community - since I do some code out and in, its all open source and its readable via git.. I guess its non free source like an open
669[16:44:10] <JordiGH> greycat: Not sure if you're joking (in which case, I'm about to look like an ass), but supposedly restricted but visible source isn't open source, according to Bruce Perens (pbuh) but most people forget that "open source" is supposed to be a synynom for "free software".
670[16:45:03] <greycat> "open source" means you can read the source code. That's all. It doesn't mean you're free to DO anything with the source code, like modify it, or distribut it. That's where the distinction between "free software" and "open source" comes in.
673[16:46:44] <JordiGH> You're not very grey at all.
674[16:46:47] <JordiGH> Have you forgotten 1998?
675[16:47:14] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
676[16:47:18] <unborn> read and you are free to change and make it better for your self perhaps I am wrong but once you do mention original source or creators you are free to share it out with anyone - perhaps I am wrong..
688[16:49:55] <unborn> JordiGH: its partly closed source and I can confirm this: Red Hat employee Adam Williamson, while acknowledging his own bias, has criticized snap for keeping the server side closed source,[20] not having a mechanism for using third party servers, and having to sign a contributor license agreement to contribute to its development.
689[16:49:56] *** Quits: Arkaniad (~Arkaniad@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
690[16:50:14] <JordiGH> unborn: Ah, I didn't realise they did distribute the server code.
691[16:50:15] <Haohmaru> in 1998 iirc there was soccer world cup in france
700[16:52:16] <unborn> basically snappy = trust the vendor and download package from whenever = like download and install .exe files.. man I hope so it will be gone before it will be popular
706[16:53:04] <greycat> So you're saying that "Open Source"(R) is a trademarked term with a very specific meaning and that I'm using it wrong, because I'm using the meaning that the phrase ACTUALLY HAS among the human population of the Earth, instead of its trademarked legal definition.
707[16:53:12] <greycat> That's acceptable as a source of confusion.
708[16:53:15] <unborn> JordiGH: they use its own servers as 3th party which means - you know...
711[16:54:16] <EdePopede> i did a new install of 10.1 on the other pc. only really basic things. unchecked the 3 default selections from the installer. 200 something packages. then installed xorg and xterm. 'startx', works. nice.
712[16:54:17] <JordiGH> greycat: I'm saying you forgot that the term was a marketing term coined in 1998.
713[16:54:19] <EdePopede> now i was going for a wm. found just a handful on the 3 DVDs, decided to install awesome. did the usual 'apt-get -s install' to know *what* it would fetch. looked good, i did it. ended up with config errors, 3 packages missing: libxcb-xrm0, libxcb-xtest0, libxdg-basedir1. though all of them were in the list in the dry-run. so, what's the best way to fix it and how can this even happen?
714[16:54:19] <unborn> thanks everyone. finally I can see snappy light years away from my systems
715[16:54:27] <wasamasa> it is kind of funny to have this discussion in a debian channel
716[16:54:31] <wasamasa> dfsg anyone?
717[16:54:37] <JordiGH> greycat: And that they convinced you that the term was your own idea and the natural thing to call it: it's not.
718[16:54:58] <greycat> I'm just telling you what the phrase means, to me, and I believe, to most other humans.
727[16:56:17] <e> "don't you know what happened? really? <name> <name> <name? you need to read things!" is not a good look
728[16:56:26] <wasamasa> unfortunately greycat is right, the occasional time I hear someone non-techy mention open source, they're quick on emphasizing that it's great because it doesn't cost them anything
730[16:56:37] * unborn JordiGH I do believe that code is like language, if I not see, not read and not understand, than I am sorry I cannot help.. no one can
737[16:57:35] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
738[16:57:37] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
739[16:57:39] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
740[16:57:47] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
741[16:57:48] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
742[16:57:48] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
743[16:57:48] *** Quits: kennoodle (badf930b@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
744[16:57:58] <unborn> oh flooding again?
745[16:58:01] * e pats Sigyn
746[16:58:32] <JordiGH> e: I'm just surprised about greycat. I thought he was older.
747[16:58:40] <greycat> I am older.
748[16:58:46] <JordiGH> It's okay, young people don't know what a rotary phone is either.
749[16:58:50] <greycat> Maybe I'm old enough not to give a crap about some of this stuff.
752[16:59:13] <JordiGH> So maybe he wasn't hacking on Linux in 1998.
753[16:59:32] <JordiGH> Linus himself used a bunch of words to describe Linux before 1998 but never "open source".
754[16:59:38] <greycat> Maybe you, and you alone, are caught up in this "frequent flamewar" that nobody else seems to see.
755[16:59:42] <JordiGH> And the marketing thing was huge back then. Tim O'Reilly put a lot of money into it.
756[16:59:43] <e> JordiGH: people can be old and not think what you think. you're sounding arrogant as heck right now. also, one can be aware of the OSI and their official definition and still not think it's what people normally mean by "open source"
757[16:59:44] <unborn> and well respected, not just for his computing skills.. trust me greycat is great cat
758[17:00:08] <JordiGH> e: everyone's been fooled by OSI to use their word without even knowing it.
760[17:00:18] <JordiGH> And used it to mean something else now.
761[17:00:19] <EdePopede> JordiGH: most people would consider themselves knowing how computers and internet works. usually that means they know they have to press the blue e (sry for the hl) on the screen to open it on their computer. (that's from an older interrogation, but the results should still be valid)
767[17:00:59] <JordiGH> And people *do* have this argument. I'm not the only one going around saying, "that's not what open source means". I can show you the arguments.
768[17:01:04] <EdePopede> JordiGH: so "most people" isn't a base to argue, if you have to, go for "most people with a clue on that particular topic"
769[17:01:21] <unborn> JordiGH: regards linux and linus.. as you said you should do beeper research about it.. man this is well off topic, lets get focus on debian guys shall we?
773[17:02:29] <jelly> can be get back to tech support? For semantics and semiotics there's ##English, for arguments #debian-offtopic, and I don't even see the question any more
774[17:02:31] <unborn> EdePopede: I have no eyes so you have to slap me or poke JordiGH eyes or perhaps some elses ;)
775[17:02:41] *** Quits: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
777[17:03:00] <unborn> EdePopede: shoot it out.. how we can help you
778[17:03:09] <EdePopede> i did a new install of 10.1 on the other pc. only really basic things. unchecked the 3 default selections from the installer. 200 something packages. then installed xorg and xterm. 'startx', works. nice.
779[17:03:11] <EdePopede> now i was going for a wm. found just a handful on the 3 DVDs, decided to install awesome. did the usual 'apt-get -s install' to know *what* it would fetch. looked good, i did it. ended up with config errors, 3 packages missing: libxcb-xrm0, libxcb-xtest0, libxdg-basedir1. though all of them were in the list in the dry-run. so, what's the best way to fix it and how can this even happen?
785[17:03:56] <EdePopede> maybe i could just go on with installing them manually, but i'd like to get an answer about the why and how, before i change the system state
786[17:04:01] <greycat> EdePopede: fix your sources.list
787[17:04:14] <unborn> EdePopede: first of all you can adopt apt install...command but I think you looking for libxcb-xrm0
788[17:04:15] <Haohmaru> you know the cat is old when it's grey
789[17:04:16] <EdePopede> greycat: the 3 DVDs. nothing else.
790[17:04:18] <jelly> EdePopede: can you pastebin actual output of -s and the failing non -s command?
791[17:04:28] <unborn> man I am too slow to reply :/
807[17:07:05] <EdePopede> oh, i just see.. die DVD image is still mounted. installed packages from #1 first, then asked for #3. auto-unmounted #1 before this. i thought this would also happen with this one now that it ... somehow finished
808[17:07:37] <EdePopede> jelly: here yes, there no. remember the old dos days. a pc. a user. in a room. :)
821[17:10:01] <EdePopede> jelly: not here. all i ever had was an old nokia (iirc) for some years, found out i don't really need it. didn't have a camera anyway, but T9 and MMS!!!
824[17:10:42] <EdePopede> that is, i do have a cam somewhere, but hell knows its position right now... should have bought some of these RFID tags years ago
842[17:18:12] <EdePopede> uh, what's that now? attached the external HDD in its USB box to this PC and just in that moment i lost the sound in the video playing here. (mplayer, pulseaudio). had to plug out and in again the cable, then it was back. in PA's Output Devices tab i only had something digital left, now it shows Line Out and Headphones again.
843[17:18:25] <EdePopede> so, now i'll prepare the paste
849[17:20:18] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
875[17:29:03] <Haohmaru> i was thinking it might mean "in this situation, when they don't cooperate much - hit them with teh bat!"
876[17:29:29] <unborn> Haohmaru: I do not think so, EdePopede have problem and to best understanding here jelly did some forensics around not to scare the person but to understand better what happen to him as that user was very specific and have quiet know-how.. there is no scary bat in debian, debian is awesome and the door to future
886[17:30:51] <greycat> Lazy beta testers, criticizing the English grammar instead of the fact that it claimed I had asked something 1 second ago, when I didn't.
887[17:31:07] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
888[17:31:12] <unborn> :D
889[17:31:15] <moistmoskito> greycat: my statement covers your issue
890[17:31:22] <EdePopede> uh, the line in history.log is 5090c long, is it really needed? :D
907[17:34:36] <unborn> greycat: if I wouldnt know you I would say - its not debian since you are my mentor regards bash and I love you whatever you might say man
908[17:34:42] <Haohmaru> couldn't come up with anything better
909[17:34:56] <unborn> but youre always right greycat
916[17:36:35] <greycat> dpkg basic apt-get troubleshooting =~ s/In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we/[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we/
930[17:39:05] <dpkg> To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
931[17:39:08] <EdePopede> bats are fantastic creatures btw, no need to misuse them :P
951[17:48:54] <jelly> the checke for packages that are "not needed any more" are done every time, and do not affect other state.
952[17:48:58] <jelly> checks*
953[17:48:58] *** Quits: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
954[17:49:04] <EdePopede> jelly: installed the 3, finished setup of awsome. incl. update-alternatives. they were on DVD-2 which i was not even asked to insert when i did the install
960[17:51:35] <EdePopede> what step? all i did is 'apt-get install' and inserted (and mounted) the DVDs as it was asking. 1 first, then 3. with the wrong DVD on the mountpoint (asking for #2, i mount #3) i'm pretty sure it would lament. going to test this later, still missing a display manager.
965[17:52:27] <greycat> You only scanned *two* of the physical media to be added as apt-sources? And the stuff that it was missing was on the other one, which was not scanned?
967[17:53:00] <EdePopede> that's the plan for that machine too. want to have a usable environment first, then fire up jigdo here and move them to the other machine. building up an isolated mirror. with what method ever, will have to look for it later
1158[18:49:45] <Stx> warsoul: either they are not running, or you got a rootkit installed which changed the "ps" binary, or you simply arent seeing it. Try ps -u <his user> to get some more filtered/specific output
1184[18:59:26] *** fourhundredtheca is now known as FH_thecat
1185[18:59:28] <Stx> warsoul: I dont know every process name for the VMs, but if you see something about "qemu" or "virt/virtd" or "docker" in the output from "ps aux" there is probably a container/VM running and those processes wouldnt be shown from the "ps aux"
1216[19:02:49] <SerajewelKS> Stx: right, i was correcting only the container part of that statement: "there is probably a container/VM running and those processes wouldnt be shown from the "ps aux""
1217[19:02:56] <SerajewelKS> Stx: you were right about VMs but not about containers
1241[19:11:11] <cheapie> Huh, I guess I no longer need to get around to troubleshooting the slow boot issues on my laptop, as one of the recent updates fixed it :P
1244[19:12:30] <cheapie> No idea what the problem actually *was* (aside from that it seems to only happen with 4Kn boot drives and involved that local-block script running like 30 times before it booted), but at any rate, it works properly now.
1245[19:12:51] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1257[19:15:02] <cheapie> I think it's a WD "SN520" SSD or something like that. Came with the laptop.
1258[19:15:06] <warsoul> how do i add a sudo user
1259[19:15:07] <warsoul> >
1260[19:15:08] <warsoul> ?
1261[19:15:33] <greycat> To enable a user to use sudo for *Any* command, put them in the "sudo" group.
1262[19:15:34] <Boohbah> warsoul: visudo as root
1263[19:15:47] <greycat> you don't have to edit sudoers, or run visudo
1264[19:15:49] <jelly> warsoul: on debian the simplese thing to do is add the user to the sudo group, "adduser usernamehere sudo", and they they have to log off and log in again
1265[19:15:55] <greycat> unless you only want them to be able to sudo *some* commands
1273[19:17:11] <cheapie> jelly: FWIW, Debian does seem to handle booting from a 4Kn drive fine, at least now after whatever recent updates landed in testing, everything seems 100% working, and the drive is actually turning out slightly higher performance numbers than the specs claim now.
1277[19:18:04] <cheapie> I mean, not *much* higher - this isn't some magic "this one command doubles your SSD speed!" thing, but it is at least a marginal improvement over 512e mode.
1345[19:45:36] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1346[19:46:02] <wernstrom> tom_work, I'm not sure what it has to do with systemd other than some change to a kernel configuration value was put in at the time the vuln came about, I suppose the diligent tester would revert that change and see if the problem was still reproducible?
1347[19:46:12] *** Quits: OS-58756 (~OS-58756@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1350[19:47:21] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1351[19:47:23] <tom_work> Can you? systemd forces a lot of kernel parameters a certain way. I know because I build custom kernels a lot and if it's running systemd there's a very special way systemd needs the .config
1352[19:47:31] <Habbie> that is the only thing it has to do with systemd
1353[19:47:37] <Habbie> systemd changed the default for the rp_filter parameter
1404[19:58:45] <Miles8of9> i need to write the first debian iso file to an usb pendrive, i'm doing it with Rufus and it asks me if i want to write it in "iso" or in "dd" mode... what should i choose? it's an .iso file so... iso.. ?
1411[19:59:30] <nvz> Miles8of9: uhh because the debian documention specifically says not to, and to use w32diskimager
1412[19:59:34] <nvz> !rufus
1413[19:59:34] <dpkg> rufus is a tool that can be used to make bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about <hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
1415[19:59:53] <sponix> nvz: tool from etcher.io does well :)
1416[20:00:34] <nvz> Miles8of9: our images are not normal cd images, they are hybrid images, they are already ready to be written directly to any media.. so tools like unetbootin and rufus just mangle them up and cause unsupportable issues
1423[20:01:55] <NetTerminalGene> Sleaker, they should look at faster
1424[20:02:53] *** Quits: JimVibe (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1425[20:03:27] <nvz> Miles8of9: if you're stubborn or have no other choice, the dd mode sounds closer but I have no idea what rufus does and most of us here dont.. all we know is the release notes say specifically not to use it.. so we're not gonna be able to support any issues you have with the installer
1426[20:04:37] <Sleaker> NetTerminalGene: if you need it immediately you can always just go to sid or just install directly from mozilla...
1427[20:04:50] <NetTerminalGene> no
1428[20:04:52] <rainfyre> Miles8of9: it's really straightforward to just use the dd command to make your bootable iso
1430[20:05:19] <Miles8of9> rainfyre, have no linux machine to use dd
1431[20:05:25] <nvz> rainfyre: no.. first of all only cp is required, secondly if someone is using rufus chances are they're on windows an have no dd command
1437[20:07:02] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from replaced-url
1438[20:07:10] <rainfyre> nvz: interesting, didn't know that cp would work all by itself :) I've always used dd
1439[20:07:11] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Using the unoffical debian installer with non-free firmware included can save a lot of non-free firmware hassle.
1440[20:07:16] <karlpinc> !firmware images
1441[20:07:17] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
1442[20:07:37] <nvz> rainfyre: the images are hybrid images.. nothing special is required anymore.. cp debian.iso /dev/sdc or such works fine
1449[20:09:12] <jhutchins_wk> karlpinc: Windows approach to hardware is a very different model.
1450[20:09:19] <nvz> karlpinc: does powershell have some means of writing directly to a device? afaik windows never had any sort of block layer or device filesystem or such like linux does
1455[20:10:29] <nvz> karlpinc: me either.. thats why I dont support it anymore :P
1456[20:10:33] *** Quits: bmeneg_ (~bmeneg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1457[20:11:17] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: The netinstall contains what you need to download a complete system, plus the unoffical netinstall contains the non-free firmware you might need. The offical installer requires you manually download your own non-free firmware.
1459[20:11:52] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: By using the netinstall you download only what you need. If you download a DVD image (or whatever) you'll wind up downloading a lot that does not get installed.
1460[20:12:32] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1461[20:12:35] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: The installer downloads what it needs as it runs.
1462[20:12:46] <Miles8of9> non free firmware means drivers for radeon cards, atheros wifi chips etc?
1467[20:13:31] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Yes. Or stuff like that. I forget. If you want your hardware to work you often need non-free firmware.
1468[20:13:35] <wernstrom> the powershell question is a "maybe" seems convoluted though: replaced-url
1469[20:13:48] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Not "drivers". "Firmware".
1470[20:13:57] <karlpinc> !firmware
1471[20:13:57] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
1477[20:16:22] <Miles8of9> firmware as i know it is a piece of software that is written inside eprom chips and ok.. does it mean that linux overwrites that eprom on every boot? Oo
1478[20:16:22] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: The kernel will still need its drivers to run the hardware, some of which may also be in the non-free section, etc. But it is eaiser to install the right driver after the installer finishes than find and install the right firmware. Sometimes you have a choice of drivers. Not true of firmware.
1483[20:18:09] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: These days the os can be responsible for firmware loading, or initialization or I don't know what. I haven't kept up.
1486[20:19:40] <Miles8of9> one hard to answer question... video card is radeon hd 7640g + 7470m, processor is amd a8-4500m ... does linux support it? it's a bit old.. 2013
1487[20:19:42] *** Quits: hummingbee (~humbag@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1505[20:24:08] <greycat> for the record I don't see 7640 in the pkg description of firmware-amd-graphics on buster
1506[20:24:10] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Old drivers tend to remain supported nearly forever, unlike priprietary drivers where the manufacturer wants you to buy something new.
1507[20:24:18] *** ed_peguillan_ is now known as ed_peguillan
1508[20:24:31] <Miles8of9> greycat, right...! that's why i was asking!
1509[20:25:28] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Easiest is to try it and see. Maybe it works like an older card, only with some special extras that you might not miss.
1510[20:25:59] <greycat> the lack of an actual answer on replaced-url
1530[20:36:05] <jelly> (looking at that dmesg and my vague memorise of a HD 7450, I _think_ that one probably ought to boot and get framebuffer and 2d working even without firmware, and needs fw for 3d)
1538[20:38:42] <greycat> far as I know, SNMP doesn't broadcast... it listens for requests, and the client has to request the exact pieces of data that it wants to see
1559[20:45:13] <jelly> brimestone: there are two options of collecting info via SNMP, 1) polling snmpd on remote systems or 2) making remote systems send traps
1560[20:45:23] *** Quits: PetiteF26 (~textual@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1569[20:48:12] <jelly> that page seems to use the former, adding some OIDs to snmpd.conf via "extend" functionality. The way you phrased your questions kind of implies you want snmp traps instead
1570[20:48:15] <brimestone> I have a working monitoring SNMP dump via a server to my Zabbix/Grafana.. but I want to add smartctl data to the output of my server
1576[20:51:19] <jelly> brimestone: if your monitoring system actually does somthing like a regular snmpwalk or snmpget from the machines you want to monitor, then that's option 1), you can put basically any command to be executed in an extend line in snmpd.conf, as that page says:
1580[20:52:14] <greycat> looks like it's *already* being parsed by a shell
1581[20:52:26] <brimestone> @jelly thats what I'm trying to figure out.. I see a lot of mibs here /usr/share/snmp/mibs but im not sure which one is active
1603[20:58:11] <brimestone> so I have to copy this replaced-url
1604[20:58:36] <WoC> is there some sort of config file for systemd to change the default "runlevel" ? - As with SysV; for graphical start up; 'init 5' and non grahpical startup; 'init 3'
1605[20:58:58] <somiaj> WoC: they are called targets, and you can use systemctl to set the default target.
1620[21:02:17] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1621[21:02:45] <jelly> brimestone: and since debian does not run snmpd as root any more, you'll either have to use sudo like that, or generate statistics say from a root cron job, and only put a command like "/bin/cat /path/to/check_smart_disk_output.txt" in snmpd.conf
1622[21:03:21] <jelly> brimestone: if a command collecting stats takes long to run, it's better not to use it directly in snmpd.conf
1644[21:12:02] <jelly> you will probably want to track more than just whether the devices says "health check PASSED" vs "health check FAILED", since you have zabbix, you can track temperature and number of pending and uncorrectable errors and warn when those change
1670[21:30:11] <rileyd> I can't connect to my debian 10 server over IPv6. It has a link-local IPv6 address, but not a global IPv6 address, as shown by "ip a". I can connect to other servers over IPv6. I have ufw installed, but it is currently disabled while I'm testing this. What should I do?
1671[21:30:55] <rileyd> To test it I am simply using `nc -l -p 8080` on the server and `telnet <ip> 8080` on the client
1681[21:33:21] <Dagger> try `rdisc6` and see if SLAAC is enabled, but a lot of VPSs just expect you to manually configure them (because heaven forbid things just work out of the box...)
1697[21:37:24] <Dagger> if you're not receiving any RAs you'd have to set the default route manually anyway, since that's the only way to automatically set a default route
1698[21:37:30] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1722[21:45:43] <WoC> Any suggestions on how to set up my own repository ? I strive to populate it with local builds with cpu specific build using the main source repository. Or if there is a tool for that? given there is build farms for a number of cpus
1723[21:46:21] <rileyd> so i put "iface eth0 inet6 static\naddress ...\ngateway ..." in /etc/network/interfaces.d/10-ipv6.cfg, now how do i reload it? do i need to ifdown eth0 and ifup eth0 ?
1724[21:46:28] <WoC> Any suggestions would be very much appreciated
1725[21:46:44] <rileyd> substitute \n for physical \n and ... for values provided by my VPS provider
1726[21:47:23] <rileyd> do i need a netmask line? i wasn't given one
1737[21:51:56] <Dagger> even if you have a netmask, you still only have one IP. the mask gives you the size of the networks, not the number of IPs you get from that network
1738[21:52:24] <whislock> All allocated IPv6 addresses will have a prefix length of /64, unless your provider is insane.
1739[21:52:26] <WoC> right, the subnet
1740[21:52:50] <WoC> unless he has a special provider who use /128
1741[21:53:15] <whislock> That's possible, yeah.
1742[21:53:21] <brimestone> @jelly I've tweaked the script to expose "uncorrected errors". How do I include that output with the SNMP broadcast?
1743[21:53:54] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1769[22:13:53] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1770[22:13:57] <nvz> WoC: I doubt anyone has made software to both setup a repository and build from source.. those are two different things.. you'd need some sort of CI software to do the building
1771[22:14:08] *** Quits: gormenghast (~gormengha@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1779[22:17:08] <nvz> building packages from source and making a respository are two different things.. open developers typically seperate tasks into different projects..
1780[22:17:15] <nvz> what you are asking is two different things
1786[22:20:31] <nvz> WoC: irc.debian.org which points to irc.oftc.net either would get you in the right place.. I'm not sure which channel is most appropriate but #debian-mentors on that network would perhaps be a good place to start.
1787[22:20:58] <nvz> WoC: that channel is for "Support for new contributors with questions on packaging and Debian infrastructure projects/services. See also the debian-mentors mailing list."
1788[22:21:05] <nvz> and sounds to me like you
1789[22:21:18] <nvz> would like to better understand how debian packages are built automatically from source
1791[22:21:44] <nvz> I'm sure there is someone in there that could at the very least point you in the right direction on that
1792[22:21:58] <WoC> ok, great, ty
1793[22:22:36] <nvz> WoC: this used to be the official network and this is still the larger support channel for general debian questions but we are mostly just users helping users with general stuff.. the developers would know more about the kinds of things you want to do
1794[22:23:50] <WoC> well, fist, make ppc64 (PPC970/G5) specific builds with all the safe optimizing applied
1795[22:24:11] *** Quits: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1796[22:24:20] <WoC> hopefully aarch64 in the future as well
1797[22:25:07] <WoC> just waiting for the 64 bit arm powered workstations to go down in price to reasonable levels
1798[22:26:09] <greycat> dpkg, flw81 is <songbird@anthive.com> there is no issue to be worried about. this isn't a production system facing the wider world.
1826[22:45:35] <FleaFart> Why is time required when installing Debian; or why is internet required during the install, is it to get internet time? If so, does anyone know why time is important to the setup and configuration of Debian ?
1830[22:46:51] <greycat> a more applicable response might be, why do YOU believe that you should try to prevent your system from knowing the correct date and time?
1831[22:47:25] <FleaFart> yes, but all the packages on a new dvd are matched with all the rest at the time of creating the dvd. so that doesn't explain why internet is require to install.
1836[22:47:49] <greycat> Joy. Like I needed more of that today.
1837[22:48:59] *** Quits: panga (~panga@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1838[22:49:33] <FleaFart> if you see every question as a troll then please Don't reply to me. Sadly, my questions are to learn, what is wrong with that?
1841[22:50:53] <FleaFart> for anyone that wants to HELP, I have a system time ERROR saying that I am out of time, I can not remember were I seen the error and I would like to know how to fix.
1842[22:51:21] <FleaFart> NOT greycat
1843[22:51:46] <FleaFart> he is ignored and I wouldn't see he posts.
1844[22:51:58] <nkuttler> FleaFart: we don't need to know who you ignore, please move on
1845[22:52:45] <FleaFart> he just replied OK to ignoring me, I replied in kind.
1877[23:12:37] <Miles8of9> yes... i've downloaded firmware iso and i'm ready tu write it to usb pendrive
1878[23:13:19] <nvz> Miles8of9: i'm not sure of modern windows.. but you could always pull up device manager go to properties and on one of the tabs find the pciid of a device listed
1900[23:20:23] *** Quits: MrAlexandr0 (~MrAlexand@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1901[23:20:55] <nvz> ,pciid 1002:9903
1902[23:20:56] <judd> [1002:9903] is 'Trinity [Radeon HD 7640G]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'radeon' in stretch. See also replaced-url
1907[23:22:07] <judd> [1002:6760] is 'Seymour [Radeon HD 6400M/7400M Series]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'radeon' in stretch. See also replaced-url
1908[23:22:56] <Miles8of9> ok! so i need to install stretch, not buster
1909[23:23:02] <nvz> Miles8of9: no..
1910[23:23:18] <nvz> Miles8of9: judd's pciid lookup is just out of date.. there is no reason it wont work on buster
1911[23:23:30] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: No. The package xserver-xorg-video-radeon is in buster and will probably automatically be installed by the installer. If not, you can install it.
1930[23:28:36] <nvz> what version I dont know, but I'd guess probably Win7/8
1931[23:28:37] <Miles8of9> hehe... i was an old linux user... red hat 4.2.. suse 5.3... debian sarge!!! i used to recompile the kernel with all modules
1932[23:28:58] <nvz> Miles8of9: yeah, well that was a LONG time ago..
1934[23:29:21] <nvz> if you had some bleeding edge hardware you may have to install a 5.x kernel from backports or something maybe
1935[23:29:43] <nvz> but your hardware as stated is all older than what I'm on.. and my machine is from 2013
1936[23:29:55] <ZaZaGX> she wants it recompiled hard
1937[23:30:09] <Miles8of9> download kernel tgz... apply various patches... make dep.. make prop... make menuconfig
1938[23:30:44] <nvz> Miles8of9: yeah.. modern kernel compiling isnt quite the same either.. making debian packages for the kernel is now mainlined
1939[23:30:45] <Miles8of9> because make xconfig was based on tcl/tk libraries.. :P
1940[23:31:30] <nvz> Miles8of9: I just built myself a 5.4.1 kernel a couple days ago.. only had to configure with make menuconfig then make deb-pkg then install the deb packages with dpkg -i
1941[23:31:50] <nvz> and it wasnt necessary.. I just haven't built one since 2.6 and wanted to familiarize myself
1950[23:33:55] <nvz> Miles8of9: they can load a new kernel into memory and jump to it without restarting the machine, they can load patches as modules..etc
1951[23:35:21] <Miles8of9> i compiled lots of libraries and software by hand.... because at that time there was no packages update... debian released new packages by applying patches to existing sources
1952[23:35:41] <Miles8of9> red hat and suse.. ZERO new versions of packages
1953[23:35:57] <nvz> not in sarge..cause I first came to debian around 2002-2003ish and it was 2.2 (Potato) which is much older than sarge
1954[23:36:00] <Miles8of9> buy/download next version!
1955[23:36:20] <h4x0riz3d> huh, sorry for "potato"
1956[23:36:22] <h4x0riz3d> x_x
1957[23:36:31] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1958[23:36:45] <nvz> yeah well I'd burned a 3 disc set of 2.2r6 and installed it, and a few days later Woody I think it was released
1959[23:36:49] <nvz> felt stupid :P
1960[23:37:21] <Miles8of9> debian stable was simply stable because it was not moving at all!! :D
1961[23:37:41] <nvz> it still doesnt really move.. but ever since I been using it there have been security updates
1971[23:39:06] <nvz> I'd come across Debian.org and read two documents that changed my life.. the Why Debian and Social Contract.. and those things haven't changed..
1972[23:39:10] <nvz> !why debian
1973[23:39:10] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
1974[23:39:13] <nvz> !social contract
1975[23:39:13] <dpkg> The Debian Social Contract is the document that defines Debian's purpose, see replaced-url
1977[23:39:40] <nvz> I recommend anyone considering debian read those.. and if that sounds good to you, then Debian's for you.. if not.. then its not for you :P
1981[23:41:01] <nvz> yes well, as I said.. those things haven't changed
1982[23:41:16] <nvz> we do update the browsers.. as you can see.. the 68 goes all the way back to jessie
1983[23:41:46] <nvz> but that doesnt mean we go bleeding edge.. we just still do security fixes and when needed, we have newer versions of some things
1984[23:42:13] <annadane> or just download firefox from mozilla's site
1985[23:42:14] <Miles8of9> firefox 68 release date July 9, 2019
1986[23:42:16] *** Quits: Clarth (~Clarth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1987[23:42:30] <nvz> yeah.. like 6mo ago..
1988[23:42:34] <nvz> !buster
1989[23:42:34] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current <stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06. "Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see replaced-url
1990[23:43:02] <nvz> buster was released 2 days earlier
1991[23:43:20] <annadane> firefox is basically the one thing i want the latest version of
1992[23:43:30] <Habbie> if anybody can edit that dpkg thing
1993[23:43:36] <Habbie> it's dachshund
1994[23:44:02] *** Quits: B-3-N (~B-E-N@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back)
2027[23:52:34] <nvz> for people who arent very savvy I often install pidgin and setup freenode/oftc and put the bots and channels in their buddy list and explain to them they have to join #debian to use the bots in a private message
2028[23:53:21] <jim> annadane, you mean for the bots?
2030[23:53:32] <nvz> pidgin is a rather crappy irc client, but I like to use it on machines I install for people who dont know much.. cause its easier for them to grok and can also work with other messaging protocols they may want to use
2031[23:53:48] <jim> it's actually, if you're on any channel the bot is also on
2032[23:54:07] <jim> and not all the bots have that restriction
2046[23:57:17] <nvz> but they cant say I didnt make them aware of it :P
2047[23:57:46] <Miles8of9> how can you "jump" into the new kernel without rebooting??? Oo
2048[23:58:09] <somiaj> Miles8of9: not easially
2049[23:58:45] <Miles8of9> it's just safer to reboot :D
2050[23:59:02] <nvz> Miles8of9: you use a program called kexec one command loads the kernel and optionally initrd and commandline, the other issues a kexec() jump call.. its effect is essentially that of a reboot.. but the machine itself doesnt reboot
2051[23:59:18] <nvz> Miles8of9: just saying, a LOT has changed over the years